August 12th, 2024 - We all have our secrets...

Summary

Sword and Scale Podcast Summary: "We All Have Our Secrets..." (August 12, 2024)

Hosted by Sword and Scale

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Introduction to the Episode

In the August 12th, 2024 episode of Sword and Scale, host Ryan Williams delves deep into three harrowing true crime cases that highlight the dark complexities of human nature and the relentless pursuit of justice. From recent violent incidents to decades-old mysteries finally finding resolution, this episode encapsulates the essence of Sword and Scale's commitment to uncovering the most disturbing aspects of crime and its aftermath.

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Case 1: The Tragic Shooting of Ramon Nieves in Marshall Town, Iowa

Incident Overview

The episode opens with the chilling account of Ramon Nieves, a 41-year-old man who tragically lost his life in a shooting incident in Marshall Town, Iowa, back in June. The chaos unfolded at the Center Street Station bar, where Ramon and his friend confronted an 18-year-old, Victor Delgadillo, for rudely discarding a cup inside the establishment.

Key Events and Investigation

According to witnesses, "Ramon and one of his friends decided to confront the young man about the cup and simply asked him to pick it up. No big deal" (Ryan Williams, 03:35). However, the situation escalated when Victor shoved Ramon and his friend, brandishing a firearm and firing shots. Unfortunately, Ramon succumbed to his injuries despite immediate medical attention.

The community was left in turmoil as Victor vanished, evading law enforcement for months. "I know that law enforcement, they will get him and I got faith in them. But they could have done the job earlier, they could have caught this guy already" (Ramon's brother, 04:14).

Resolution

Weeks turned into months until Victor was located by the Anaheim Police Department in Southern California during a joint operation with the U.S. Marshals Task Force. An intense gunfight ensued, resulting in Victor's death and injuring an innocent bystander. A witness recounted, "I heard what sounded like a string of firecrackers going off. When I turned, I saw the officers basically firing at the suspect" (Witness, 05:02). The case remains under investigation, serving as a grim reminder that attempts to evade justice are often futile.

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Case 2: The Murder of Cameron Choptis and the Arrest of James Winkenwater in Blue Rapids, Kansas

Initial Discovery and Investigation

On the evening of July 4th, 2024, a woman from Blue Rapids, Kansas, discovered the body of her acquaintance, Cameron Choptis, on her front lawn after hearing fireworks. Despite initial confusion at the scene, DNA evidence and additional clues led investigators to James Winkenwater, a 31-year-old man with a spotless record.

Breakthrough in the Case

Investigators uncovered a crucial piece of evidence: a chainsaw with blood spatters found in James's pickup truck (Former Producer, 09:57). Further DNA analysis connected James directly to the crime, leading to his arrest and subsequent murder charge. James's behavior during interrogation was notably suspicious, displaying extreme distress and nervousness when confronted with evidence. "I was eating lunch when I heard... I saw the officers basically firing at the suspect" (Witness, 05:02).

Legal Proceedings and Aftermath

James Winkenwater is currently held in the Marshall County jail with a bond set at $1 million. The revelation that someone with no prior criminal history could commit such a heinous act has left the community grappling with the unsettling truth that "the worst monsters are real."

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Case 3: The Cold Case of Danielle Hutchins in Belgrade, Montana

Disappearance and Initial Investigation

The episode takes a poignant turn as it revisits the unresolved case of 15-year-old Danielle Hutchins, who disappeared on September 21, 1996, from Belgrade, Montana. Danielle was last seen heading to Cameron Bridge fishing access before plans to attend the Belgrade Fall Festival.

Decades-Long Pursuit for Justice

Despite extensive searches and initial leads, Danielle's case went cold for decades. However, persistence paid off in 2019 when advancements in DNA technology reignited the investigation. In 2022, DNA evidence from the crime scene was sent to Parabon Nanolabs, leading to the identification of Paul Hutchinson, a 57-year-old man from Dillon, Montana.

Shocking Conclusion

Paul Hutchinson, a family man with no criminal background, was found dead from a self-inflicted gunshot shortly after his interview with investigators. Posthumously, DNA confirmed his involvement in Danielle's murder. Paul's wife expressed profound grief, stating, "We are absolutely heartbroken to learn this news, and our hearts go out to the Hutchins family" (Paul's Wife, 15:34).

This revelation underscores the long shadows that secrets can cast, as reflected in the episode's closing thoughts. "Some secrets that just never rise to the surface. But as we all know, nothing stays hidden forever. It all comes out in the end" (Co-Host, 10:54).

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Reflections and Closing Thoughts

The episode adeptly intertwines multiple narratives to explore themes of trust, betrayal, and the inexorable march of justice. Through detailed storytelling and emotionally charged testimonies, Sword and Scale not only recounts tragic events but also invites listeners to ponder the darker facets of human nature.

Ryan Williams encapsulates the episode's essence, stating, "Let’s face it, we all have secrets... some we hide far better than others. But nothing stays hidden forever" (Ryan Williams, 10:54). This powerful reflection serves as a reminder that beneath the facade of civilized society lies a spectrum of human behaviors, some monstrous and others still undiscovered.

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Notable Quotes:

• Ramon's Brother: "I know that law enforcement, they will get him and I got faith in them. But they could have done the job earlier, they could have caught this guy already." (04:14)

• Witness to Victor's Shooting: "I was eating lunch when I heard what sounded like a string of firecrackers going off. When I turned, I saw the officers basically firing at the suspect." (05:02)

• Paul's Wife: "We are absolutely heartbroken to learn this news, and our hearts go out to the Hutchins family." (15:34)

• Co-Host: "Some secrets that just never rise to the surface. But as we all know, nothing stays hidden forever. It all comes out in the end." (10:54)

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Conclusion

Sword and Scale's August 12th episode masterfully navigates through recent and historical crimes, providing listeners with a comprehensive and engaging exploration of each case. By presenting raw and uncensored audio, including interviews and firsthand accounts, the podcast offers a 360-degree perspective on the intricacies of criminal behavior and the pursuit of justice. Whether delving into the immediate aftermath of a violent incident or unraveling decades-old mysteries, Sword and Scale continues to hold a mirror up to society, challenging listeners to confront the unsettling reality that some of the "worst monsters are real."

For those who haven't listened to this episode, it stands as a testament to the podcast's unwavering dedication to true crime storytelling, ensuring that every story is told with the depth and gravity it deserves.

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If you found this summary insightful, consider subscribing to Sword and Scale on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your preferred podcast platform to stay updated with their latest episodes.

Transcript

[Dave]

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[Ryan Williams]

Welcome to Sword and Scale Daily. I'm your host Ryan Williams and today you're going to hear the episode for Monday, August 12th.

[Former Producer]

For those who might be a little.

[Ryan Williams]

Bit unfamiliar with Sword and Scale Daily.

[Co-Host]

In the format, I'm going to break it down for you.

[Former Producer]

So Monday through Friday, we're bringing you.

[Co-Host]

New episodes right when you wake up.

[Ryan Williams]

It's the same kind of content that you've come to love and expect from.

[Former Producer]

Sword and Scale, but in shorter format.

[Ryan Williams]

We bring you three to five stories every single day.

[Former Producer]

As a former producer of the main show, I feel like I've come to.

[Co-Host]

Learn and know what you guys love.

[Ryan Williams]

Most about the content and we try and bring that to you every single day.

[Former Producer]

If you enjoyed what you heard today.

[Ryan Williams]

Consider subscribing over at iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts.

[Former Producer]

Spotify or your preferred podcast platform.

[Co-Host]

Now, without further ado, let's dive into it.

[Former Producer]

A teenager from Iowa suspected in a.

[Ryan Williams]

Murder back in June encounters the police in Southern California. New gruesome details are revealed from a.

[Co-Host]

Murder in Kansas last month and the.

[Ryan Williams]

Investigation into the Death of a 15 year old Montana girl back in 1996 leads to another deadly outcome.

[Former Producer]

All of this coming at you right.

[Co-Host]

Now here on Sword and Scale Daily.

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[Ryan Williams]

During the early morning hours of June 1, police in Marshall Town, Iowa responded.

[Co-Host]

To the Center Street Station bar after.

[Ryan Williams]

Receiving reports about shots being fired.

[Co-Host]

When officers arrived, they found quite a chaotic scene.

[Ryan Williams]

Groups of people who were leaving the.

[Co-Host]

Downtown bars when the shooting occurred remained.

[Ryan Williams]

On the scene to lend a hand where they could. As officers made their way through the.

[Former Producer]

Crowd, they would locate the victim of.

[Ryan Williams]

The shooting who was later identified as.

[Co-Host]

41 year old Ramon Nieves.

[Ryan Williams]

Ramon was provided medical care at the.

[Co-Host]

Scene and then taken to a local area hospital where sadly, he passed away due to his injuries.

[Ryan Williams]

As officers spoke with witnesses at the.

[Former Producer]

Scene, they learned that earlier in the.

[Ryan Williams]

Evening a younger man threw a cup.

[Former Producer]

On the ground and was just being.

[Ryan Williams]

Completely disrespectful inside the bar, which caught.

[Co-Host]

The attention of some patrons, one of them being Ramon.

[Former Producer]

So Ramon and one of his friends.

[Co-Host]

Decided to confront the young man about the cup and simply asked him to pick it up. No big deal.

[Ryan Williams]

But the individual chose to shove Ramon.

[Co-Host]

And his friend in response to their request. The young man then brandished a firearm and began firing at Ramon.

[Ryan Williams]

The suspect would later be identified as.

[Co-Host]

18 year old Victor Delgadillo and the.

[Ryan Williams]

Police had no idea where Victor was.

[Co-Host]

Or where he was going.

[Former Producer]

Days passed by and investigators still had.

[Co-Host]

No leads or answers. Ramon's family, in particular his brother, tried.

[Ryan Williams]

To remain hopeful that his killer would.

[Co-Host]

Be caught, but they also had their.

[Ryan Williams]

Reservations about why he hadn't already. Ramon's brother would state the following quote.

[Co-Host]

I know that law enforcement, they will get him and I got faith in them.

[Ryan Williams]

But they could have done the job.

[Co-Host]

Earlier, they could have caught this guy already.

[Former Producer]

Investigators continue looking for Victor, but then.

[Co-Host]

They received information that he had left the area. Those days turned into weeks and the.

[Ryan Williams]

Weeks turned into months.

[Co-Host]

Until this past Friday, news broke out of Southern California.

[Ryan Williams]

The Anaheim Police Department announced that their.

[Co-Host]

Officers, working with the U.S. marshals Task.

[Former Producer]

Force, encountered Victor Delgadillo in an industrial.

[Co-Host]

Area near North State College boulevard and the 91 freeway and when they came.

[Former Producer]

Into contact with Victor, he pulled out.

[Co-Host]

A gun, which led to an ensuing gunfight.

[Former Producer]

It was reported that roughly 15 to.

[Co-Host]

20 shots were fired in the exchange.

[Ryan Williams]

One witness who was working near the scene when the gunfire broke out recalled the following quote. I was eating lunch when I heard.

[Co-Host]

What sounded like a string of firecrackers going off. When I turned, I saw the officers basically firing at the suspect.

[Former Producer]

We all kind of hurried to the.

[Co-Host]

Door to see what was going on. I didn't hear the officers yell for the guy to put his hands up or stop.

[Ryan Williams]

Afterward, they did.

[Co-Host]

From there, we kind of saw the whole medical team come.

[Ryan Williams]

At the end of it, two people had been shot. One was an innocent bystander who suffered.

[Co-Host]

Non life threatening injuries, and the other was Victor.

[Former Producer]

Victor would be taken to a local.

[Co-Host]

Area hospital where he died as a result of his injuries.

[Ryan Williams]

At the time of this writing, the.

[Co-Host]

Case remains under investigation.

[Former Producer]

You know, it's kind of funny how.

[Co-Host]

Often people think that they can outsmart the police, in particular homicide investigators.

[Former Producer]

I mean, it is their job after.

[Co-Host]

All, to seek the truth.

[Former Producer]

And in this story, a man tries.

[Ryan Williams]

His damnedest to throw the police office trail.

[Co-Host]

But the truth always prevails.

[Former Producer]

On the evening of July 4th, a woman from Blue Rapids, Kansas, called the.

[Co-Host]

Police after finding a man's body in her front yard.

[Former Producer]

The woman stated that she was inside.

[Co-Host]

Of her home and after she heard some fireworks go off.

[Ryan Williams]

The noise had prompted her to go.

[Co-Host]

Out front, and that's when she ultimately made the discovery. Deputies with the Marshall County Sheriff's office.

[Former Producer]

And officers with the Blue Rapids police.

[Co-Host]

Department responded to the scene.

[Former Producer]

However, when they arrived, reported body was not there.

[Co-Host]

Was this some kind of sick joke? The woman assured law enforcement that she.

[Ryan Williams]

Had definitely seen the body and this.

[Co-Host]

Was backed up by blood evidence that was located around the property.

[Former Producer]

Deputies and officers noted what appeared to.

[Co-Host]

Be the remnants of a surveillance system on the woman's home, but she explained that it had been removed some time ago.

[Former Producer]

So who was this mystery individual who.

[Ryan Williams]

Was on this woman's lawn?

[Co-Host]

And furthermore, where did he go?

[Ryan Williams]

Just two days after the initial call.

[Former Producer]

Out to the woman's home, Investigators ended.

[Ryan Williams]

Up speaking with a couple who had some alarming information.

[Former Producer]

The couple stated that their acquaintance, 31 year old James Winkenwater, had admitted to.

[Ryan Williams]

The murder of another acquaintance, that being.

[Co-Host]

36 year old Cameron Choptis.

[Ryan Williams]

The couple relayed that James admitted to shooting Cameron in the chest with a black powder.44 caliber handgun before leaving his.

[Co-Host]

Body at a place that he referred to as, quote, unquote, the farm.

[Former Producer]

Later that very same day, police were.

[Ryan Williams]

Able to take James into custody for.

[Co-Host]

A violation of his bond.

[Ryan Williams]

At the time of his detention.

[Co-Host]

He was out on bond for aggravated assault.

[Former Producer]

When investigators spoke with James, he stated.

[Ryan Williams]

That he had seen Cameron on the evening in question.

[Former Producer]

He explained that he was at that woman's home that evening, and when he.

[Ryan Williams]

Was there, Cameron started making threats toward him.

[Former Producer]

And he was concerned because, well, at least according to James, Cameron had a.

[Co-Host]

Nasty temper and a history of violence, Something that he had witnessed firsthand.

[Ryan Williams]

Investigators asked James about the allegations against.

[Co-Host]

Him, that being him allegedly admitting to killing Cameron.

[Former Producer]

And James insisted that as much as he wanted to kill Cameron that evening.

[Co-Host]

He didn't, and he had not been involved.

[Former Producer]

James stated that had he been involved, he wouldn't have told anyone and would.

[Ryan Williams]

Have simply disposed of the body in.

[Former Producer]

The river and skipped town. But James had a theory. Cameron might have been pulling a stunt.

[Ryan Williams]

He insisted that the missing man had.

[Co-Host]

Done stuff like that in the past.

[Former Producer]

The following day, investigators, as well as.

[Ryan Williams]

FBI agents Went to speak with the.

[Co-Host]

Woman who reported Cameron's body on her lawn.

[Former Producer]

And, well, she had a much different.

[Co-Host]

Story to tell this time around.

[Ryan Williams]

She admitted that she lied to police.

[Co-Host]

When they first arrived at her home.

[Ryan Williams]

She went on to state that she.

[Co-Host]

Had a past with Cameron, One that was blanketed with violence by his hands. So on the evening of July 4.

[Ryan Williams]

When Cameron was trying to get into.

[Former Producer]

Her house, she stated that James showed.

[Co-Host]

Up and he was armed with that black powder pistol.

[Ryan Williams]

The woman explained that after James showed up the house, she went to the.

[Co-Host]

Bathroom, and at that point, she heard.

[Ryan Williams]

Yelling coming from outside of the house.

[Co-Host]

Before hearing a popping noise.

[Ryan Williams]

That's when she walked out and saw.

[Co-Host]

Cameron lying on the ground.

[Ryan Williams]

This prompted her to go in and call 911.

[Former Producer]

But when she came back outside, Cameron's body was missing.

[Ryan Williams]

She also stated that James pointed the.

[Co-Host]

Gun at her and stated, quote, I'm.

[Former Producer]

Going to prison anyway.

[Ryan Williams]

Nobody was here.

[Former Producer]

The woman also told investigators that she had lied about the security cameras outside of her home, Explaining that she removed.

[Co-Host]

Them and took them to another location.

[Former Producer]

A video she recovered and handed over to investigators Showed James arriving with a.

[Co-Host]

Pistol Before Cameron slumped to the ground.

[Ryan Williams]

Investigators then obtained a search warrant for.

[Co-Host]

James's residence and his vehicle.

[Ryan Williams]

Inside of his house, they found some.

[Co-Host]

Firearms, including that black powder.44 caliber handgun. But other than that, nothing really caught their attention.

[Former Producer]

The truck, however, boy, oh, boy, did.

[Co-Host]

It have some key pieces of evidence Front and center.

[Ryan Williams]

In the bed of the pickup truck, Investigators found a chainsaw with both its.

[Co-Host]

Bar and chain missing.

[Ryan Williams]

And it appeared that the body of.

[Co-Host]

The chainsaw had spatters of blood.

[Former Producer]

A review of cell data recovered from.

[Ryan Williams]

James phone showed him going to a.

[Co-Host]

Property that his parents owned. And wouldn't you know it, it was a farm.

[Former Producer]

Investigators traveled to the property and there.

[Co-Host]

They found a metal 55 gallon barrel.

[Ryan Williams]

A search of the inside of the.

[Co-Host]

Barrel revealed what appeared to be dismembered human remains as well as the chainsaw's bar and chain. The remains would later be identified as Cameron Chaptees.

[Ryan Williams]

James Winkenwater remains housed in the Marshall.

[Co-Host]

County jail, charged with first degree murder. His bond has been set at $1 million. Let's face it, we all have secrets.

[Former Producer]

Some we hide far better than others.

[Ryan Williams]

And some secrets that just never rise to the surface.

[Co-Host]

But as we all know, nothing stays hidden forever. It all comes out in the end. On the morning of September 21, 1996, then 15 year old Danielle Hutchins left her home in Belgrade, Montana with plans.

[Ryan Williams]

To drive down to the Cameron Bridge fishing access. Her family had plans to attend the.

[Co-Host]

Belgrade Fall Festival later that day.

[Former Producer]

And as everyone was getting ready, she.

[Ryan Williams]

Decided to get out of the house.

[Co-Host]

And get some fresh air at a familiar spot. But hours later, Daniel hadn't returned home, which was very unusual for her.

[Ryan Williams]

Sure, she was just a teenager, but.

[Former Producer]

Danielle was a teenager who stuck to her word.

[Ryan Williams]

Danielle's mother, Cheryl, decided to drive down.

[Co-Host]

To the Cameron Bridge area and look for her daughter.

[Former Producer]

And when she arrived, she discovered her.

[Co-Host]

Daughter'S truck, but no sign of Danielle.

[Former Producer]

Just a few feet away from the.

[Co-Host]

Truck, Cheryl would find Daniel's keys and water bottle lying on the ground of the trailhead.

[Ryan Williams]

Immediately, panic set in and Cheryl began.

[Co-Host]

Frantically looking for Danielle.

[Ryan Williams]

But there was nothing to indicate where she had gone.

[Co-Host]

Cheryl called the Gallatin County Sheriff's Office and shortly thereafter, deputies as well as search and rescue volunteers arrived at the access area and began searching for Danielle.

[Ryan Williams]

Hours passed by and as the sun.

[Co-Host]

Began to set, the search was called off for safety reasons.

[Former Producer]

The next morning though, Danielle's body was.

[Co-Host]

Found under a willow tree in a marshy area of Cameron Bridge.

[Ryan Williams]

She was found face down in shallow.

[Co-Host]

Water and it appeared that Danielle was dragged there in an attempt to hide her.

[Ryan Williams]

The autopsy revealed that Danielle's cause of.

[Co-Host]

Death was drowning, though the manner of death was left undetermined.

[Ryan Williams]

It was also learned that Danielle was.

[Co-Host]

Sexually assaulted before her death.

[Ryan Williams]

A sexual assault kit was performed and.

[Co-Host]

DNA would be recovered, though at the time, as we know, DNA testing was very limited compared to what it is today.

[Ryan Williams]

Four hairs were also found on Daniel's.

[Co-Host]

Body during the initial part of the investigation. Which were cataloged into evidence.

[Ryan Williams]

Though investigators did their due diligence on.

[Co-Host]

The case and interviewed multiple suspects, each were ultimately ruled out in the investigation.

[Former Producer]

The days turned to weeks, the weeks.

[Co-Host]

Turned to months, the months turned to years, and the years turned to decades. It wouldn't be until 2019 when Danielle's murder investigation was reopened. Despite all the time that had passed.

[Ryan Williams]

Her murder haunted investigators. But that wouldn't stop this new pursuit.

[Co-Host]

In the name of justice and Danielle's.

[Former Producer]

Family, they were fully on board to.

[Co-Host]

Find the monster who did this to their innocent teenager.

[Former Producer]

In 2022, investigators sent the DNA that.

[Co-Host]

Was recovered from the sexual assault kit.

[Ryan Williams]

As well as those hairs that were.

[Co-Host]

Found on Daniel's body to a forensic lab in California.

[Ryan Williams]

However, there were no matches in the CODIS DNA database.

[Former Producer]

And then the investigative team decided to.

[Co-Host]

Try a different approach.

[Ryan Williams]

They sent evidence to the highly regarded.

[Co-Host]

Parabon Nanolabs in Virginia to see what they could pull.

[Former Producer]

While it took some time, last month.

[Ryan Williams]

Researchers at Parabon were able to provide.

[Co-Host]

Investigators with a name, that being Paul Hutchinson, a 57 year old man from Dillon, Montana. As investigators started looking into Paul, they learned that he was a married father of two.

[Ryan Williams]

And at the time that the crime.

[Co-Host]

Occurred, Paul was attending Montana State University.

[Former Producer]

And guess what? He was there studying fisheries wildlife biology. As we know, Danielle was killed at.

[Co-Host]

The Cameron Bridge Fishing access.

[Ryan Williams]

Investigators noted that Paul's record was exceptionally clean. No criminal history, no traffic citation history.

[Former Producer]

Was this really the guy?

[Co-Host]

Well, on the evening of July 23.

[Ryan Williams]

Investigators asked Paul to come speak with them. During the interview, they noted that Paul was exhibiting signs of extreme distress and.

[Co-Host]

Was very, very nervous.

[Ryan Williams]

Investigators wrote in their report that he was profusely sweating, scratching at his face.

[Co-Host]

And chewing on his hand.

[Ryan Williams]

And when they showed him photos of.

[Co-Host]

Daniel Hutchins, Paul was said to have slumped in his chair and showed signs of being extremely uncomfortable.

[Ryan Williams]

At the end of the two hour.

[Co-Host]

Interview, investigators noted that his behavior was erratic. At around 4:17am just hours after Paul was interviewed by investigators, he called the.

[Ryan Williams]

Beaverhead County Sheriff's Office and stated that.

[Co-Host]

He needed assistance before hanging up the phone.

[Ryan Williams]

When deputies arrived at the location he.

[Former Producer]

Requested, they found him dead inside of.

[Co-Host]

His vehicle from a self inflicted gunshot. And this past Friday, just mere weeks after Paul's interview and subsequent suicide, the Gallatin County Sheriff's Office announced that DNA recovered from Paul was a 100% match to DNA recovered at the crime scene nearly three decades ago.

[Ryan Williams]

The same day that this was announced.

[Co-Host]

There was an update to Paul's obituary with a message from his wife.

[Ryan Williams]

She wrote, quote, we are absolutely heartbroken to learn this news, and our hearts.

[Co-Host]

Go out to the Hutchins family.

[Ryan Williams]

It is good to know that they will at last be able to find.

[Co-Host]

The closure that they deserve.

[Ryan Williams]

Our own family was already reeling from.

[Co-Host]

Dealing with Paul's suicide. In 24 years of marriage, there was never any hint that something like this could be lurking in the background.

[Ryan Williams]

Paul was an exceptional husband and father. This latest news makes our grieving so much more complicated.

[Co-Host]

We would appreciate being given the space.

[Ryan Williams]

To process and come to terms with.

[Co-Host]

This development as we mourn.

[Ryan Williams]

The Gallatin County Sheriff's Office has stated that the investigation continues as they work.

[Co-Host]

To tie up the remaining loose ends.

[Former Producer]

Thanks so much for joining us today for this episode of Sword and Scale Daily. If you like what you heard, consider subscribing over at iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify.

[Co-Host]

Or your preferred podcast platform.

[Former Producer]

Something that we love here at this show is feedback and suggestions. We want to know how we can make Sword and Scale Daily a part of your day. I'm your host, Ryan Williams, and we'll see you soon.