Episode 323

Summary

Sword and Scale – Episode 323 Summary

Podcast: Sword and Scale
Host: Mike Boudet
Release Date: October 17, 2025
Episode Theme: The gruesome murder of Lisa Dodd, an expectant mother, exploring the harrowing intersection of intimate partner violence, mental illness, and the failures of those closest to the tragedy.

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Overview

Episode 323 of Sword and Scale immerses listeners in the devastating true crime case of Lisa Dodd—a 22-year-old woman, seven months pregnant, found murdered and decapitated in her Alton, Illinois apartment in June 2022. Through the words of her mother, Heidi Noel, raw police audio, and candid narration, the episode exposes not just the horror of Lisa’s death but the tumultuous and often invisible patterns of abuse leading up to it, the role of mental illness, and the limits loved ones face in protecting those in danger.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Discovery of the Crime (02:44–09:00)

• Heidi’s Chilling Discovery:
  Heidi Noel drives to Lisa’s apartment after 15 hours without contact—an abnormality for their close relationship. Her concern is palpable.

  • Scene described with haunting detail: Lisa’s unlocked apartment, unsettling silence, and “something is off.”
  • Quote – Heidi Noel ([01:12]):
    “Lose a child that way and that baby is an extension of her mother and the rest of her family. So they lost a child as well.”

• 911 Call and Realization:
  Heidi’s anguish is captured as she calls 911 and finds Lisa’s decapitated body.

  • “She catches something in her peripheral vision. Lisa is on the floor, on her back. A towel is wrapped tightly around her head, almost like a turban. Blood is soaked through…” ([04:26])

2. Lisa’s Life and Dreams (09:00–12:25)

• Highlights Lisa’s personality, aspirations, and excitement about becoming a mother.
• Details about family closeness and anticipation for the upcoming baby shower.
• Quote – Heidi Noel ([09:13]):
  “She attended Shelby’s, much to Shelby’s dismay, middle school orientation in a tiara and princess gown…she was a character.”

3. Escalation of Abuse and Toxic Relationship (21:19–36:43)

• Lisa’s Relationship with DeAndre Holloway:

  • Met through social media in 2020; DeAndre displayed classic signs of emotional manipulation and instability.
  • Heidi’s Perspective:
    Spotlights the difficulty and nuance in addressing a loved one's abusive relationship, highlighting how pressure can backfire.
    • Quote ([25:55]):
      “It’s a very fine line between navigating this with them… the more my parent tried to clamp down… the more rebellious I was.”

• Early Warning Signs:

  • Episodes of mental illness (hearing voices, dissociation) noted by Heidi, who is a nurse. DeAndre was briefly hospitalized after one severe episode.
  • Lisa’s reluctance to involve police due to DeAndre’s prior record.
  • Violence Escalates:
    Choking incident leaves Lisa unconscious—Heidi intervenes, sending Lisa to Colorado for safety, but social media keeps them connected.
  • Quote – Heidi ([34:15]):
    “That was probably her dying. You don’t normally see people, and it’s a very serious situation… he could kill her.”

4. Failed Interventions and Community Apathy (36:43–53:13)

• Instances of violence increase in frequency and severity: broken nose, black eyes, recurring arguments—Lisa continually excuses or hides the abuse.
• Family attempts various interventions including temporary phone confiscation and placing Lisa with her sister, but cycles of abuse persist.
• Neighbors’ Inaction:
  Despite hearing rife arguments and even “chopping” sounds on the night of Lisa’s murder, no neighbors called 911.
• Quote – Mike Boudet ([51:05]):
  “No one called 911. It was just business as usual. They’d heard the fighting before and everything turned out okay. Why should they intervene?”

5. Murder, Motive, and Mental Illness (42:37–65:26)

• Day of the Murder:

  • Lisa found decapitated; killer fled with her car and was captured on surveillance disguised in Lisa’s clothes and a headwrap.
  • DeAndre’s delusions include hearing the voice of a woman named Ruth, occasionally “taking charge.”

• Investigation & Arrest:

  • DeAndre is arrested in Litchfield, behaving erratically—cutting off his beloved dreads, pouring out bleach.
  • Police interviews show DeAndre as calm and rational at times, refusing medication.
  • Quote – Mike Boudet ([58:08]):
    “There were no voices. It was just plain old DeAndre … He wasn’t playing the crazy card, at least just the belligerent one.”

• Trial and Sentencing:

  • Initially found unfit, later declared competent to stand trial after treatment.
  • Pleads guilty; sentenced in Jan 2025 to 60 years for murder, intentional homicide of an unborn child, and concealment of homicidal death.
  • Lisa’s missing head is found in a dumpster, wrapped in bedding.

6. Aftermath: Grief, Regret, and Hardened Wisdom (65:26–67:54)

• Heidi’s Fortitude:
  Despite everything, she offers forgiveness rather than hate.

  • Quote – Heidi ([66:26]):
    “I do not hate you. The world holds enough anger and hate for you that I don’t have to carry those emotions. I’m sad and disappointed in you… that you destroyed so many lives, so many hopes and dreams, including your own.”

• Reflection on Parenting in the Face of Danger:
  “All she could do as a parent was exactly what she did. Sometimes, no matter how hard you try to help… it’s up to them to decide their own path.” ([65:26], Mike Boudet)

7. Closure and Tragic Irony (67:00–67:54)

• Final conversation the night before the murder between Lisa and her mother:
  • Quote – Heidi ([67:00]):
    “She had actually said, ‘I wish I could see baby Bean tonight. I’m ready to see my baby now.’”
  • Poignantly, Lisa and her unborn child are united in death; for Heidi, this brings a small comfort amid the loss.

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Notable Quotes

• “[Lisa] was my mini-me. We had a lot of same characteristics and behaviors … As they became adults, they became the best of friends.”
  —Heidi Noel ([07:17])

• “She reaches out and touches her daughter's pregnant stomach and finds it cold. She thinks maybe, just maybe, it's not too late. Maybe she can still do CPR. Maybe the baby…”
  —Mike Boudet ([04:26])

• “He said that it didn't matter because he would just pull the crazy card.”
  —Heidi Noel ([41:49])

• “Monsters thrive in darkness and complacency. It makes them powerful and unstoppable.”
  —Mike Boudet ([65:26])

• “That night she got to be with her baby does bring me comfort. And in my mind’s eye, I see God and Bean waiting for Liza to join them to walk her home.”
  —Heidi Noel ([67:54])

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 01:12–02:41: Heidi expresses the impact of loss and the start of the narrative
• 04:26–07:11: Discovery of Lisa’s body and the 911 call
• 09:13–11:09: Lisa’s childhood memories and maternal aspirations
• 21:19–36:43: Development and escalation of abusive relationship
• 34:15: First incident of DeAndre’s extreme violence (choking Lisa unconscious)
• 42:37: DeAndre’s reference to “pulling the crazy card”
• 51:05–53:13: Account of neighbors overlooking the critical night of the murder
• 58:08: Police interrogation—DeAndre’s demeanor
• 65:26–67:00: Sentencing, Heidi’s final words to DeAndre, and episode reflection
• 67:00–67:54: Last conversation between Lisa and Heidi

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Tone and Language

• Tone:
  The tone is raw, direct, and honest, combining matter-of-fact true crime reporting with emotional and personal moments, especially from Lisa's mother, Heidi. Host Mike Boudet wields dark humor and biting commentary, often addressing system failures and cultural issues surrounding crime and mental health.

• Language:
  Blunt descriptions, occasional profanity, and unfiltered dialogue—echoing the show’s style of presenting “the raw uncensored audio [that] tells the story.”

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Conclusion

Episode 323 delivers a gut-wrenching account of a preventable tragedy, laying bare the realities of abusive relationships, the labyrinth of mental health and justice, and the heartbreak of families who do “everything right” but still lose. It is an unflinching reminder that the worst monsters are indeed real—and, as the show's signature line suggests, they often thrive in our own complacency and silence.

Transcript

[Mike Boudet]

Limu Emu and Doug. Here we have the Limu Emu in its natural habitat helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.

[Podcast Advertiser]

Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.

[Mike Boudet]

Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty Liberty Liberty. Liberty Savings Very unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts.

[Podcast Advertiser]

Time is precious and so so are our pets. So time with our pets is extra precious. That's why we started Dutch. Dutch provides 24. 7 access to licensed vets with unlimited virtual visits and follow ups for up to five pets. You can message a vet at any time and schedule a video visit the same day. Our vets can even prescribe medication for many ailments and shipping is always free. With Dutch. You'll get more time with your pets and year round peace of mind when it comes to their vet care.

[Mike Boudet]

Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.

[Heidi Noel]

Lose a child that way and that baby is an extension of her mother and the rest of her family. So they lost a child as well.

[Mike Boudet]

Some asshole said at some point that brevity is the essence of wit. So we might as well get on with it. This is episode 323 of Sword and Scale, a show that reveals that the worst monsters are real. And Doug. Here we have the Limu Emu in its natural habitat helping people customize their car insurance. And hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.

[Podcast Advertiser]

Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.

[Mike Boudet]

Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty Liberty Liberty. Liberty Savings Very unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts. She turns on to Bolivar street like the car is driving itself. She feels numb. Too numb to be its driver. She's been here before, too many times to count. But today is different. Her stomach is unsettled. Why hasn't her daughter Lisa responded to her in more than 15 hours? They have an understanding. She thinks, if I don't hear from you, I'm coming to find you. It's the way moms and daughters operate. That bond is never truly broken. The building comes into view at the far end of the block. It looks like a regular two story house, maybe a little worn around the edges. There's a lawn, not big, but enough to push a mower across and a long narrow sidewalk that stretches up to the sagging front porch. It's the kind of porch you'd expect to creak under your feet. And it does. It does. From where she parks, the trees at the dead end street are in full bloom, tall and still. A thick line of woods makes the gray two story house feel almost peaceful. If you didn't know any better, you'd think this was a residential house in a rural setting, not an apartment within the city limits. She walks the sidewalk, one foot in front of the other. Her hands are tight around her phone. There's no answer. She's been calling and calling and she's tired of hearing her daughter's voice on the voicemail greeting. She knows the entry code by heart, the four digits her daughter gave her months ago just in case. She punches them into the keypad at the front of the apartment building and climbs to the second floor. It's too quiet except for a fluorescent bulb buzzing in the hallway. Her stomach is already starting to twist. The apartment door is closed but not locked. She pushes it open. Something is off. Even the air smells wrong. She calls out Lisa's name but there's no answer. Still. Nothing screams danger. It's just an eerie silence. Maybe Lisa is sleeping. Maybe her phone died. Maybe. She moves through the kitchen and then the small hallway that leads to the bedroom. The light is on. This gives her one second of hope. The light is on. She turns the corner to enter the bedroom and her mother's intuition has already taken over. She steps closer. She calls her name again. Nothing. Just as she turns to leave the room, she catches something in her peripheral vision. Lisa is on the floor, on her back. Time is now in slow motion as she makes her way to her daughter. A towel is wrapped tightly around her head, almost like a turban. Blood is soaked through it in dark patches. She sees that her shirt is lifted slightly over her swollen belly. She reaches out and touches her daughter's pregnant stomach and finds it cold. She thinks maybe, just maybe, it's not too late. Maybe she can still do cpr. Maybe the baby. But her hands are shaking. She feels the panic set in, so she dials 911.

[Heidi Noel]

911. What's the address of your hi. What is your daughter's name? Lisa. L I E S E dot. Is she on Bolivar right now? Yes, she's in her apartment. I remember. Check on him.

[Mike Boudet]

At that moment, Heidi Noel crosses a threshold no parent is ever meant to cross.

[Heidi Noel]

So I was a single mom with two children. I had Lisa when I was about 27 years old. She was my mini Me, we had a lot of same characteristics and behaviors. My older daughter, Shelby, just doted on Lisa. It was kind of like her living baby doll. So as they were growing up, as any siblings, they went through their. Their close times and then their separate times where they couldn't stand each other, which is pretty normal. But they. As they became adults, they became the best of friends. And they used to call themselves twins, seven year apart. So they were quite the team.

[Mike Boudet]

In the chaos of that moment, her calling for help, trying to make sense of what she's just seen, Heidi's recollection of the night before stuck with her. The last text.

[Heidi Noel]

I don't. I last got a message from her last night. When was the last time? What time did you last hear from her? It was like nine or five or so. I had sent her a text.

[Mike Boudet]

That last text read simply, you okay? A mother's intuition told her Lisa was not okay.

[Heidi Noel]

They're on their way. Okay. That's her name. That's her vehicle. Doing it now. Do you see the officer's man? I hear this. I hear him. I hear this. Tell me when you see the office. Okay. Okay.

[Mike Boudet]

You see the officer now? Yeah. Okay.

[Detective]

I'm gonna let you go.

[Mike Boudet]

Okay.

[Heidi Noel]

Okay. You're welcome.

[Mike Boudet]

What she holds onto now came long before that tragic night. The moments that still make her laugh. The moments that made Lisa. Lisa.

[Heidi Noel]

She was a good student. She was very thoughtful and courteous. She. She. When. When she was. We moved up to Jerseyville when Shelby was entering middle school, and Lisa was still one year away from kindergarten. So Lisa did complete all of her schooling here in Jerseyville. And at Shelby's middle school orientation, Liza dressed with a tiara and princess outfit. So she was, like I said, around five, six years old. So she attended Shelby's, much to Shelby's dismay, middle school orientation in a tiara and princess gown and those little plastic princess shoes that they used to sell at the store. So she was a character.

[Mike Boudet]

Lisa was just 22 years old, but was already living on her own in an apartment about half an hour away from her mom and stepdad. She was responsible. She had her own car and a job. But her main goal was to become a nurse like her mother, because she loved caring for people. That was obvious.

[Heidi Noel]

Ma'.

[Detective]

Am.

[Heidi Noel]

Yes, ma'.

[Detective]

Am.

[Heidi Noel]

I got offices on the way here is your daughter.

[Mike Boudet]

She was pregnant. Almost eight months pregnant. The nursery wasn't finished yet, but the baby shower invitations had already gone out. The party was planned for the end of June. Pink and white decorations. Her mom had Just picked up the balloons. The due date was late July, just weeks away. Just the night before, Heidi and Lisa had been talking about names for the baby. She wasn't ever nervous, just excited. She'd text her mom about baby stuff constantly. Crib styles, diaper bags, and ultrasounds.

[Heidi Noel]

And she had, even in her younger years, had always kind of wanted to be a mom. She has some cousins. I think at the time, she had about three cousins, and she doted on them and would kind of babysit with them. And so she was very much into. She was looking forward to being a mom. Like, she never. She never shied away from being a mom or the responsibility of that. And during the. One of the first ultrasounds, you know, when. When a baby's really small, it looks kind of like a bean, a little jelly bean. And so that's where she. She then started referring to her baby as baby bean. So that's where the. The nickname came from. And we all just embraced it and went with it. So the restaurant that she worked at here in Jerseyville was going to allow us to use their space to host her baby shower. So we were talking about how we were going to decorate it. And I had asked her if she'd decided on a name yet. And she's like, no, not really. Not for sure. I thought about Leilani, and I'm like, why Leilani? You know, I'm like, we're not Hawaiian. And she goes, that's not a Hawaiian name. And I'm like, well, I said, it's still a beautiful name. But I said, I thought you were leaning toward Genevieve. And she's like, no, I'm not sure.

[Mike Boudet]

So she had no idea that she wouldn't get to see any of it. Now she sat rocking back and forth to soothe herself as she waited for police and emergency responders to make their way to Lisa's apartment. Car after car, sirens blazing and lights flashing, were descending onto the place. It seemed like the entire police department was crowding onto the front lawn, and Heidi was just. Well, she was just numb.

[Detective]

You have a key to get in? Right here, Right here.

[Mike Boudet]

This one.

[Heidi Noel]

Do you have the key? Oh, I'm sorry.

[Mike Boudet]

Of course, Heidi wasn't thinking clearly. They would need the same code to enter the building. As for the key, she left Lisa's apartment unlocked. As she walked away in shock, unsure of where the killer was, the police announced themselves as they stormed the building. Even they were stunned at what they saw in Lisa's bedroom.

[Heidi Noel]

She wasn't kidding. You want to go talk to her? Dude. Yeah. And then I'll hold here.

[Mike Boudet]

The scene was a bloody mess, and the suspect was long gone by the time Lisa's mom and the police got there. Whoever killed her fled in her car. A black Kia Optima. They left behind a dead body and a grieving mother.

[Heidi Noel]

Oh, God. Lisa, why didn't you Listen, Take some.

[Mike Boudet]

Big deep breaths for me, okay? Okay.

[Heidi Noel]

Okay.

[Mike Boudet]

And.

[Heidi Noel]

I did. I went up because I could send anger from her correspondent. That's not.

[Mike Boudet]

She had moved the towel. It was part of her shoulder. It was faint. The sound of Heidi's voice asking officers a question that an hour earlier would have seemed absurd. Did you find her head? She asked. When she turned into the doorway of her daughter's bedroom, she almost left without seeing her daughter in it at all. This was because Lisa lay on the floor. But then Heidi caught sight of her daughter's pale skin smeared with blood. And then a towel wrapped around her head like a turban, except there was no head. It was hard for even seasoned police to come to grips with the site. I don't know the whole story, but it sounds like mom came here to.

[Detective]

Check on her daughter.

[Mike Boudet]

Found daughter just dead upstairs.

[Detective]

Okay. Obviously.

[Mike Boudet]

Okay.

[Detective]

In here while.

[Mike Boudet]

Or something. Her page been cut off.

[Detective]

Oh.

[Mike Boudet]

So. I mean, I don't think there's anything. Yeah, I don't think there's anything.

[Heidi Noel]

So. All right.

[Mike Boudet]

So just some more rooms. That's what we're trying to do. Get in these other apartments just to make sure.

[Detective]

Everybody else. All right.

[Mike Boudet]

I just got a proper camera.

[Detective]

Just checking to see.

[Mike Boudet]

Yeah. While a few officers waited outside with Heidi, some went into the building to ask if anyone in the other units knew anything. This wasn't something they came across every day. And even they were shocked pretty bad.

[Detective]

Yeah, not good. We didn't see it. I'm assuming it may be wrapped up in that towel, but.

[Heidi Noel]

I think some cut. It looks fairly clean, too, though.

[Mike Boudet]

Yeah, it does.

[Detective]

Don't look like a movie. I do know it's not in the freezer or the fridge. I didn't check out.

[Mike Boudet]

The police had looked everywhere for Lisa's head, even the refrigerator and freezer, but it was nowhere. According to the police report, first responders found blood throughout the floor of the apartment. Most police were instructed to wait outside while the scene was processed. Once in the bedroom, they saw Lisa's decapitated body lying on the bedroom floor next to the bed. They noticed bloodstains on her torso, and most of the stains seemed to be blood spatter or smearing. But then they saw something odd. A symmetrical stain on her left side. It was rectangular with small circles inside the rectangle. It's unclear, but likely that Lisa was already dead when her head was severed. There was no mention of arterial spurting in the police report. This was her mother's perspective. In her words.

[Heidi Noel]

I had turned to just get ready to leave, and out of the corner of my eye I saw skin the color of skin again. I'm a nurse, so. And I think I was like, I think that was skin. So when I turned and looked in the bedroom, I saw her laying on the ground. And so I ran over to her saying, you know, Lisa, Lisa.

[Mike Boudet]

What a painful realization that the child you brought into this world was whole when she got here and in pieces when she left. The towel bundled up at the top of Lisa's body did not contain the rest of her. And her hand was lying on top of a book about pregnancy, of all things. This was the same hand that used to tuck back long strands of strawberry blonde hair from her bright face and smile. But where was that smile now? Where was her face for that matter? Heidi was already begging the police to find it and find the monster who did this. And Doug. Here we have the Limu emu in its natural habitat helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.

[Podcast Advertiser]

Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.

[Mike Boudet]

Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you need@liberty mutual.com Savings Fairy underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company affiliates excludes Massachusetts.

[Podcast Advertiser]

Time is precious and so are our pets. So time with our pets is extra precious. That's why we started Dutch. Dutch provides 24. 7 access to licensed vets with unlimited virtual visits and follow ups for up to five pets. You can message a vet at any time and schedule a video visit the same day. Our vets can even prescribe medication for many ailments and shipping is always free with Dutch. You'll get more time with your pets and year round peace of mind when it comes to their vet care.

[Mike Boudet]

Limu Emu and Doug here we have the limu emu in its natural habitat helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutuals. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.

[Podcast Advertiser]

Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.

[Mike Boudet]

Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty Liberty.

[Detective]

Liberty.

[Mike Boudet]

Liberty Savings Fairy underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company affiliates excludes Massachusetts on January 9, 2022 in Alton, Illinois. Police responded to a call from a mother who had discovered her daughter's body. 22 year old Lisa Dodd was seven months pregnant. She was found dead inside her apartment, her head missing. As officers started processing the scene, a larger story was already unfolding, one that hadn't started that day. Lisa had been living with a boyfriend for months. It was a young man her age and she'd been seeing him for almost two years. According to Heidi, she was an exceptional student who wanted to follow in her mom's footsteps and study to be a nurse.

[Heidi Noel]

So Lisa was a head started at Lewis and Clark, which is the local community college here, and she was looking at also becoming a nurse. She was just starting the prerequisites and stuff, but then covet hit so that had given her some extra time. But they actually met through a social media. I'm not sure which whether it was Facebook or one of those social medias she said he had was an acquaintance of one of the, the people that she was friends with and then they saw each other in DMs or something and, and that's how they started communicating.

[Mike Boudet]

It's how everybody looks for a romantic connection in 2025 dating apps. But Facebook, that's more like 2010. Nowadays it's Hinge, Tinder or I don't know, Grindr, I guess. FurryFucks.com, who the hell knows? I have no idea. So anyway, this guy's name was Deandre Holloway and he lived about an hour.

[Heidi Noel]

Away when she first started meeting up with him or seeing him, I wasn't aware of that until June of 2020. She finally brought him around to introduce him to me and probably within the first couple times of meeting him, I recognized some of those signs, characteristics and behaviors that he kind of portrayed. But I, I had a few relationships where they were emotionally kind of controlling and, and abusive in that way, emotionally and, and mentally.

[Mike Boudet]

You know the kind, it's all about them. They're needy, kind of lost. The kind of person who never quite seems to have their life together but always has a story about why, why they don't have a place to stay, why they don't have a job, why their family situation is quote unquote complicated. They're the kind of people who text a whole lot. They're always checking up on you, not according to them because they're controlling you, but because they can't stand the silence. They suddenly show up unannounced if you're having coffee with your girlfriends and act like that's totally Normal. And that they're not actually surveilling your activities. They don't have a car, or when they do, it's always in the shop again, it lives there in the shop, because they don't have the 50 bucks to get it back. And they always seem to need some help. A lot of it. A free ride, a little money, a second chance. And somehow there's always a person that gives it to them. Somebody who sees their potential and believes that if they just had someone stable in their lives, somebody who's patient with them and doesn't give up on them like everyone else has, they'll finally be okay. Liza was that someone for DeAndre.

[Heidi Noel]

There was one time that they. She. They had been over visiting here at my home, and he. I don't know if he got tired of being here or just wanted to leave, and he was just gonna leave on foot. And she was like, no, don't leave. And so there was a little verbal like, no, I'm leaving. And I was like, lisa, if he wants to leave, let him go. You know, if. If he's that adamant that he wants to leave, let him know he can't walk. And in Jerseyville, it is a smaller community, and the African American population is not that large here. So she was afraid that, you know, he might be looked at differently walking down the side of the street or whatever. So she was very adamant that he, you know, didn't leave on foot. And just that interaction at that time, I could already kind of see the manipulation of, you know, him escalating things like, I'm just leaving on foot and her trying to fix the situation.

[Mike Boudet]

And that's the very kind of relationship that pulls you in and can eventually pull you under. It keeps you busy and focused on someone else's problems instead of your own. Not that Lisa had any problems, but she had goals and a full life ahead of her. DeAndre did not. As aware of the dynamic as Heidi was, she knew better than to dictate to her adult daughter what she could and couldn't do and whom she could and couldn't see.

[Heidi Noel]

It's a very fine line between navigating this with them. And I also recognize now I'm in my midlife, but I remember being younger, and the more my parent tried to clamp down and control who I talked to or how I talked to or how long I was, the more almost rebellious I was. So I recognized that it's that fine line where you have to try to be there as much as you can and set boundaries for them, but also recognizing that that could also cause them to go the entire opposite direction and become very rebellious. Him acting that way is not really appropriate, and he's kind of using that to get you to do what he wants you to do. And, you know, I don't really think this is a good relationship, but she was just. Yeah, just very adamant that no, like, she could help him. You know, I know he's got all this stuff going on. He wasn't currently living at home. He was living with friends in Highland. So I'm not 100% of all the facts in his backstory, so I don't want to allude to things incorrectly, but I do know that he had troubles at home, in his home life. And so whether he left on his own or whether they had asked him to leave at that time, I'm not sure. But he was not living at home, so I think she felt like he could help him through those situations that he was having in his own family life.

[Mike Boudet]

To his acquaintances, DeAndre came off as quiet, sometimes distant. He didn't talk much about his personal life. His family described him as someone who drifted between homes, often staying with his mother or sister and showing up unannounced. The kind of guy who you ask where you staying at instead of where you living at, you know, like normal people. His sister said that growing up, he was a loner. He'd stay in his room for hours, rarely brought friends over, and didn't seem to connect easily with others. You could say he was sensitive. He'd be thrown off when plans changed or when he felt misunderstood. Sometimes he could get a job, but he could never keep it. When things fell through, it was usually someone else's fault. A lot of that going around these days. At one point, his mother kicked him out of the house because he wasn't contributing and would become combative. During a phone conversation with Heidi, he explained why he struggled with confrontation. He said that in his family, if someone challenged you, you took it outside and settled it outside. That's just how he learned to handle things.

[Heidi Noel]

I recognized that at different times, I did talk to both of them. Like, I had talked to her about ending the relationship at different times and that it wasn't a good relationship and things, you know, weren't proceeding like healthy relationships do. And then I had also said the same things to him, like, it's okay that you guys aren't together or you break up and you, you know, you seem better as friends than you do when you're together and people get divorced and trying to support that. They didn't have to be together to stay friends and. And even the maybe you guys just don't need to be together now until you mature and get older, and then you can come back together later in life.

[Mike Boudet]

It was a classic toxic relationship. The push and the pull. Lisa was working on trying to hold the relationship together, and her mother was using all the tools in her toolbox as a mom and a nurse to guide her daughter down the right path. But, you know, 22 is the new 12, isn't it? Kids are dumb as fuck these days. Somewhere in the last couple decades, something shifted. We started recognizing young people as adults on paper, but emotionally and socially, they're stunted. They're still trying to figure it out sometimes into their 30s and 40s. Lisa wanted to help him, and she thought she could. But his problems were a whole lot bigger than immaturity, I would probably say.

[Heidi Noel]

The first time I noticed it really escalating was in the spring of 2021. He had been homeless, and she would go out with him in the evening until early, early in the morning, and then would drop him off at parks or wherever he would say he could stay. So then they had. Which I did not like that she was out that late. And then it came to a point where they had found a place to stay in Hillsborough, Illinois. And he had. She called me one evening and he was having an episode where he was rocking and having. He always called it a reaction. He was having some type of reaction where he was talking about people that were talking in his head and seeing a person in the room. And I told her, I said, lisa, you need to call 911 because he's having. I said, it sounds very much like schizophrenia if he's hearing voices and seeing things again. I'm not diagnosing him, but it sounded very much like that. So I was like, this is not something that you can handle as a 20. I guess she was 21 at that time. I said, I'm a nurse and have been, but that's not my specialty. So you need to call 911 to help him, to get him assistance, which she finally. He had also had some previous run ins with the law in 2019. So she didn't want to call the ambulance or the. Or 911 because she didn't want him to get in trouble and go back to jail. But she did end up. I finally convinced her that that was the best option. So she did call 911 and he was taken to a hospital in Hillsboro there for a psych evaluation. So that was kind of my first like big oh my gosh moment where like this is bigger than just, you know, not a healthy relationship.

[Mike Boudet]

Now we've been told for years by the so called experts that those with mental illness are more likely to be victims than perpetrators. But what's also true is that if your boyfriend cuts off your head, he's more likely to be mentally ill than not. In fact, it's just about guaranteed those two things can be true at the same time. By the way, it's called a logical fallacy for all you college educated experts out there. Lisa hesitated to call 911 because DeAndre had previously been in trouble with the law. But Heidi finally convinced her it was too much for her to handle alone. He was placed in psychiatric holding for 72 hours and sent home with medications. And for a while he was doing a lot better. But then his meds ran out.

[Heidi Noel]

So the next, the very first time that it was very chilling was the end of May of 2021. She had come and had a black eye and bruises and he had, during one of the altercations, he had choked her out. And she stated that she lost consciousness. And now I may get emotional because I've not ever really told this story. He had choked her out to where she had lost consciousness. And actually she said she saw people.

[Mike Boudet]

Lets be clear, these were not the same people that the mentally ill DeAndre was seeing. These were not demons or gods or whatever the hell was telling him what to do. No, these are the kind of people you see at the end of the tunnel of light, if you catch my drift.

[Heidi Noel]

And I explained to her that that was probably her dying. You don't normally see people and that it's a very serious situation that he could kill her. So at that time she did get away from him. We actually put her on a plane, we had a discussion about it and she was very adamant, you know, that she wanted to end the relationship and get away from him. And so we bought her a one way ticket to Colorado. I have family in Colorado. So she was actually going to move out there. She also has a friend that had relocated, a best friend that relocated to Colorado. So she was going to stay with.

[Mike Boudet]

Her, but that lasted about a week.

[Heidi Noel]

I will say as a parent, that is one of the hardest and difficult things of trying to assist your kids through these things is because of cell phones and social media. There is really no way to disconnect them from each other unless they make that full effort to disconnect. They can talk on Snapchat, they can messenger, they can Instagram each other, they can dm, they can Facebook. So it's not just the phone anymore. That is a communication tool. There's so many ways they can still communicate.

[Mike Boudet]

Maybe someday someone will have the balls to do a study on how many deaths social media is indirectly or directly responsible for. From that point on, Heidi panicked every time the phone rang. She kept all the local police numbers in her phone in case of an emergency. She told Liza that she was always 100% welcome to move back home, just not with DeAndre. She knew if that happened and there were problems, she had her husband to think about. What if he popped off and did something to intervene and hurt DeAndre, and the next thing you know, he lands himself in jail? It felt like there was no good end, no good options. As long as her adult daughter chose to stay with this boyfriend, DeAndre's violence escalated to the point where practically everybody who knew them knew about it. Liza could only make excuses about running into doors or tripping down stairs for so long, it was becoming obvious, even to her employer. Okay.

[Heidi Noel]

She had went out on break. She didn't come back from break, and the manager on duty had called me to let me know, and I was concerned for her. So I had texted Lisa to see if she was okay. And a couple hours later, she texted me back and said that her boyfriend, had they gotten an altercation and that she was at the Litchfield Hospital emergency room and thought that her nose was broken.

[Mike Boudet]

Okay.

[Heidi Noel]

And then she texted me back and said she had seen the doctor and was waiting on the X rays and that she would be into work the next day, but her nose was broken.

[Mike Boudet]

So were they in the car when that happened, or were they outside the car?

[Heidi Noel]

No, they were in the car. And we have cameras on the back of the building. We actually tried to roll the cameras back, but they're not very good definition, so we weren't able to actually see it.

[Mike Boudet]

Okay.

[Heidi Noel]

Yeah, I wanted to call the police, and she did not want to do that.

[Mike Boudet]

Okay.

[Heidi Noel]

Okay. And I polished that house.

[Mike Boudet]

Finally, an incident happened, and Heidi called 911. She just got back from a run. She takes out her earbuds and wipes her forehead and steps into the front door. On a hot summer day. She's making her way into the kitchen for a drink of water when she sees Lisa's car pull up. She can tell by the frantic expression on her daughter and DeAndre's faces that they're arguing. Again and he's been smacking her. Lisa runs into the house and starts banging on the door. While Heidi lets Lisa in, her husband rushes out to confront the screaming boyfriend who is rage walking towards the house. Her mind races as she sees and hears him yelling at DeAndre, no. Get out of our driveway. We don't want you here. Just leave now. Lisa's stepdad is shouting this as he makes his way to her car, grabs DeAndre's things and throws them onto the street and gets the keys. That's when Lisa's mother dials 911 and.

[Heidi Noel]

And also just reliving it in your head is like you just can't even imagine I'm a cry. Being in those high, those high intensity situations is just so unbelievable to look back on. So I had, I did call 911 at that time, but I didn't realize when I had gone for my run I would use earbuds. And when I had come home, actually when she was banging on the door, I pulled the earbuds out of my ear and had gone outside to tell him to go and that I was calling 911 and. And when it was connecting to 91 1, it was actually connecting through the earbuds and not my phone. So I never actually spoke to the police. In the meantime, my husband, like I said, had gone outside and gotten Dre's belongings out of her car and handed them to him and told him to just go on down the road. So Dre took off walking down the road and as I was sitting next to Lisa, I could see her I turning black from him smacking her.

[Mike Boudet]

Heidi says the cops did drive down her street several times, but by that time DeAndre was on foot and long gone somewhere. Lisa had finally had enough again. Understand that statistically it takes about seven attempts at leaving an abusive relationship before it's actually final, which is bonkers, by the way. To help her along, Heidi took her phone for over a week just to make sure there wouldn't be any immediate contact with DeAndre. Then when it seemed like she was able to think straight and was living with her sister Shelby for a few weeks, she got her phone back. The weeks turned into months, and even though Lisa still had some communication with DeAndre, they did not see each other in person. Supposedly, he'd left the state and was in Memphis, Tennessee. It was during this time that she discovered that she was pregnant. She was planning on going it alone. This was in the winter of 2021. Fast forward to the spring of 2022 and guess who's back. Yeah. DeAndre, wanting to make things work, saying he was a new person now, and once again monopolizing Lisa's life. This time, Heidi had a serious talk with him. She told him that she was onto him and all the bruises he'd inflicted on Lisa. She showed him a file of pictures with exact dates, times, and documentation that she'd put together so that if he ever laid a hand on her again, his whole life would be taken to the police. It was, in some ways, like a small security blanket for Heidi. But DeAndre just looked her dead in the eye. In so many words. He said, that doesn't really matter. I'm crazy and everyone knows it, so I'll just play the crazy card.

[Heidi Noel]

I did let him know that, yes, because the whole time I told him, you know, abusing someone you supposedly love is not really appropriate, and it's not okay. And it is abuse. And, you know, people go to jail for that. And he. He had said to me on more than one occasion that it didn't matter because he would just pull the crazy card. And he felt like nothing would happen to him because he did have some mental health issues. And I don't know if he. If he had that feeling because that's what he'd used in the past to get out of any, you know, situations he had with the authorities or if that was just his own personal feeling. But, yes, more than once he said that to me, that it didn't matter because he would just pull the crazy card.

[Mike Boudet]

There you go. There it is. The result of no repercussions, because dumb people keep making dumb laws that protect violent assholes. The intersection of crime and politics. Y' all know about intersectionality, right? He'd said this more than once, but this time it felt like a real threat, maybe even a confession of what was to come. Because this wasn't just someone with a short temper or a bruised ego. According to his family, DeAndre had been hearing voices for years. He told them there was three of them. One of them had a name. Ruth Lover's Steakhouse, by the way. Ruth told him who he could trust and who he couldn't. She told him what to do sometimes, that she was looking out for him. She'd tell him who he could and couldn't forgive. And sometimes it felt like Ruth was the one in charge, not DeAndre. The morning after Lisa's body was discovered, surveillance footage captures someone walking away from the apartment. It looks kind of like a woman, her face wrapped in a yellow scarf. And she's wearing oversized female clothing, Lisa's clothing, a hoodie, sneakers and joggers. She's carrying a white laundry basket and moving calmly, methodically walking towards a dumpster. Police said it was DeAndre. But watching it now, frame to frame, you have to wonder, is that really him or is that Ruth? It's possible that Ruth was hiding inside DeAndre's mind all along. Or maybe she just showed up on special occasions. Whatever the case may be, he was acting normal the last time they were reunited. In fact, so normal that Heidi was surprised he seemed to take her ultimatum seriously. There were no more bruises. And for months, as Lisa's belly grew, the couple got along better than ever.

[Heidi Noel]

In March of 2022, we did the gender reveal at the apartment there outside. And she did one of those. I got one of those confetti cannons. And then we also did a T shirt and I put pink watercolor in the. In a water gun and she sprayed the shirt and that's how we did the gender reveal, that the pink water came out of the gun and. And dyed the T shirt pink. So he participated. He's the one that discharged the, the pink gun and he. The confetti gun. And he actually, I think had a T shirt on that said father to be. She had one on that said mom to be. I had one for grandma to be coming soon. And then Shelby had a T shirt on. So yeah. And Shelby's fiance was there. So yeah, he participated in that. And we had a nice day.

[Mike Boudet]

Outwardly, everything seemed fine. DeAndre was there for the gender reveal. He smiled for the pictures. He helped load gifts into the car. He said he wanted to be part of it all. To anyone watching, he looked like he meant it. There was no scene except a happy one. And he was going to be a dad. But. And get this, this is the M. Night Shyamalan twist. This is why you pay me the big bucks. You ready? All right, enough dilly dallying. Let's get on with it. Here it is. The baby wasn't his.

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[Mike Boudet]

On June 9, 2022, Lisa Dodd was found murdered in her Alton apartment. She was 22 years old and seven months pregnant. That afternoon, her mother discovered her daughter's body, her hand lying on top of a book about pregnancy. The thing is, even though babies are viable at 33 weeks, they can't live for more than 10 minutes without their mother's blood circulating through their body. Lisa's blood had already run cold. Heidi found her that afternoon in a state she never should have seen. A body without a head. By the next morning, her boyfriend, d', Andre, dressed as the incarnation of Ruth. An imaginary person in his head was gone. And the investigation was just starting. If you go in, do not touch anything.

[Podcast Advertiser]

Okay? Ma'?

[Mike Boudet]

Am? Yes. Some deep breaths, okay?

[Heidi Noel]

Yeah, I mean, I'm freaked out, but I'm okay.

[Mike Boudet]

Totally understandable. Okay. I want you to take some big deep breaths for me though, okay?

[Heidi Noel]

I knew he was gonna do this. I have pictures where he abused her in the past.

[Mike Boudet]

Police knew who they were looking for. Surveillance footage showed him leaving the apartment with a laundry basket. Then he went back into the apartment and came back out with more discarded things. Three separate trips. The last time he was seen, his face was wrapped in cloth. He was wearing Lisa's hoodie and sneakers. While DeAndre was making his way across Litchfield, Illinois, investigators back in Alton were knocking on doors, unit by unit, floor by floor. The occupant living in unit 2 was a 19 year old female whose mother was with her when police were asking questions. Just get a statement, that's fine.

[Heidi Noel]

She said that this always happens, that they always have this going. They fight a lot. They fight a lot. So I do think it would be the guy.

[Mike Boudet]

The downside. Serious neighbor three?

[Heidi Noel]

Yes. What's your apartment number? Three, ain't it?

[Mike Boudet]

Yeah.

[Heidi Noel]

Number two. She's two. She's right under.

[Mike Boudet]

She said she heard stuff last night.

[Heidi Noel]

And she was going to come here.

[Mike Boudet]

Like what?

[Heidi Noel]

She said like nine something. She heard something real loud, but she didn't go to check. Like she lives by herself. So she said it was almost 10 o'.

[Detective]

Clock.

[Heidi Noel]

But she's a. My daughter's like a little. My young one, she's right out of college, she's 19. She's gonna come at 2 o'. Clock. She's. She's at work and they're not letting.

[Mike Boudet]

Her go down to the station.

[Heidi Noel]

Okay. She didn't come up here. So just tell her you're gonna have to. Yeah, they would want you to come to the station.

[Mike Boudet]

Just tell her that. Just ask for detective.

[Heidi Noel]

Ask for detective what?

[Mike Boudet]

Just a detective.

[Heidi Noel]

Any detective.

[Podcast Advertiser]

What's her name, dear?

[Mike Boudet]

This young woman and other neighbors had heard everything. Everyone knew that DeAndre and Liza had a volatile relationship. And they had to have known she was being abused. Liza had the black eyes to prove it. But that night was unusually chaotic and loud. One neighbor said it started with the arguing, not unusual for that unit. But this time the arguing didn't stop. It escalated. Another said it turned into screaming. Then muffled yelling, like someone was trying to shout through something. Then five, maybe six heavy thuds. It sounded like someone was chopping wood, according to a witness. And then silence. Someone else said they heard footsteps after that. Someone walking out of the building with calm steps. But no one called 91 1. It was just business as usual. They'd heard the fighting before and everything turned out okay. Why should they intervene? They could have prevented Lisa from being beaten in the face and head, suffocated and then decapitated. And the odd shaped rectangle and circles on her body? Those were bloody leftover imprints from the knife handle her killer used and then casually placed on her body before getting rid of it. Lisa's black Kia Optima was missing also. It was obvious who took it. And it was easy to find just blocks away at a local business with a first sale sign on it. Although they knew right away it was her car. It was sitting on private property and the owner wasn't around. Just an employee who didn't want to get involved. There's nothing looking at you, but we need somebody to contact here. It's a serious thing that happened over there. Has nothing to do with you.

[Detective]

I don't want to be contacted by.

[Heidi Noel]

Whatever happened back here.

[Mike Boudet]

Okay, but we need to contact here. Whether we're going to subpoena or not, I need people to contact here. I just need a point of contact. So I either need a name of the owner or I need your phone number. So I would say sometime between 12am to 12pm but it's probably the car hit on a license plate reader at 1 in the morning. Maybe a black Kia Optima.

[Podcast Advertiser]

I have to say.

[Mike Boudet]

Yeah.

[Heidi Noel]

That car always park back too? Yeah.

[Mike Boudet]

So that last hit there. And that's probably what we're looking for. Anytime somebody might have been around that vehicle and when it left at 2:30 in the morning, DeAndre's sister is at her grandmother's place in Litchfield. She wakes up from her slumber for some reason and now hears her brother DeAndre knocking at the front door. This isn't unusual. Grandma's house is frequented by some of her grandkids, but not usually at this hour. Lights from his car outside illuminate the driveway and she can hear the engine still running. She looks out the window from where she is and sees his girlfriend's car, so she assumes he's just stopped by for some reason. For a minute and Lisa is still in the car. She's not really sure why he's here, but after just a little bit, he says he forgot to give his girlfriend her car keys and leaves the house. His sister dozes off, and when she wakes up again a few hours later, the car and DeAndre are gone. Later that morning, DeAndre shows up at another sister's place close by with no call ahead. He walks in wearing oversized clothes that she's seen before on Lisa. She asks him what he's wearing, but he doesn't explain. Instead, he goes straight to the bathroom and locks the door. She hears the buzz of clippers through the wall. When he comes out, his long dreads are gone, just scattered pieces left behind in the sink. This isn't right, she thinks. He spent two years growing out those dreads and said he was never going to cut them off in a million years. She doesn't say anything because he seems agitated. She knows what he's like when he's in this state. He rocks back and forth. If his mood gets worse, he might start punching himself in the head or face, so she stays quiet. Then he walks to the kitchen and picks up a bottle of bleach. For some reason he starts dumping it out on the floor. Now she asks, what the fuck are you doing? His response is to shrug and tell her he thought it was soap. The hell does that mean? She notices he doesn't grab anything to eat, even though she's offered. He just says he's going to go mow lawns, but he doesn't take the mower. He walks out the door and disappears. A short time later, Litchfield police spotted him on a bike that happened to be stolen. Just what they needed to take him in and hold him.

[Detective]

That'd be nice. I really would appreciate it. I feel like I would. The best I can. That's not the best I can use.

[Mike Boudet]

At first DeAndre was quiet but polite. He thought he would just be questioned about a bike and then let go. At least until he could figure out a better plan or get out of town. But that wasn't going to happen. Pretty soon he was complaining that police were keeping him from his job What a joke. For maybe the first time in his life, he was concerned about being fired, but everybody knew that he didn't have a job.

[Detective]

So, again, you're going to get me fired because you are holding me from. You understand, though, that we have a job to do also. And part of that. Part of that job is talking to you and kind of sorting out some things that have been going on. And if you can let us do our job, we can hopefully, you know, like, clear up some of that confusion and, you know, try and figure out where we go from here. You know what I mean? But, like, on some level, like, we do have to work with each other to a certain extent, you know, and, you know, first and foremost for us is we want to make sure that you're taken care of here, that you're not under any specific distress or anything. You know, if you're not having any kind of physical or emotional or mental struggles or whatever. And then ultimately, we'd like to try and talk to you about some of the stuff that's been going on today.

[Mike Boudet]

There were no voices. It was just plain old DeAndre. And he seemed to be, well, sane. I guess he wasn't playing the crazy card, at least just the belligerent one. Except for one point when he let the word disassociate slip from his mouth.

[Detective]

You mentioned a minute ago that you dis. I think your word where you said you disassociated. Is that something like the. Is that something you have trouble with on a regular basis or, like, do you see, like, a doctor or. Like I say, it's a problem for sure. Okay. Do you. Do you have medicine that you think I don't take it that's probably exposed to or something? Well, no. No, not necessarily. Okay, we'll talk about prescriptions for cycling, for psych. Right now you're speaking on. Yeah, I don't believe in taking it because I'm sitting here right now composing myself without it. Okay. What type of stuff do you do to try and, like, so you have, like, other, like, other methods that you use or whatever, like what you. What are you trying to do? Typically, like, I. I know for me, personally, like, I. I exercise. Like, this is one of the ways I kind of helped keep my head in the right space. Everybody has their own different things. Some people like to, you know, write in a journal or. Some people like to, you know, take a walk or spend time with family or, you know, whatever.

[Mike Boudet]

Here was his chance to pull the crazy card. He admitted he'd been evaluated and given medicines, and then he said he didn't take them. But, hey, look, I'm sitting here and I'm fine. The only thing he did seem to focus on was work. It was a little weird.

[Detective]

D. I'm actually glad you said that because I think.

[Heidi Noel]

Hold on.

[Detective]

Because, again, I was already in motion. Don't do that when I'm in motion, please. I'm asking nicely. Don't do that stuff when I'm in motion, because I understand how that goes. I'm sitting here trying to go to work, and y' all are sitting here keeping me from my job. I'm getting upset because, again, there's money out of my pocket, out of my family's pocket. I'm sure I'll be pissed off too.

[Mike Boudet]

Sure.

[Heidi Noel]

Yeah.

[Detective]

So, again, can I go to work, please? I'm asking you nicely. If this is your job, I'm sure you'll see me again, right? Hope not. Exactly. So, again, why can't I go to work? Please don't say it, because again, I.

[Heidi Noel]

Know that's what I'm saying.

[Detective]

I'm really trying to go to work. I'm acting like that because I can't go to work. I don't think that's tough too, man. Before. Before we get any further with any of these conversations. Like, you mentioned your rights a minute ago, and, like, one of the really important things that our job entails is making sure you understand your rights. Okay? So I think we. We should probably go through those with you.

[Mike Boudet]

It was a long interview with a lot of silence from DeAndre, who just kept repeating that he had to go do some work. Work, work, work. Imagine that. A homeless guy worried about going to work. The detectives just weren't buying it. They knew what was up.

[Detective]

I'm not being detained. I literally was just supposed to be leaving already. Yep. Well, I gotta.

[Heidi Noel]

I can't leave.

[Detective]

I can't let the lead from right here. So we gotta walk back where we were. Stop.

[Mike Boudet]

Stop it. I'm sure DeAndre felt challenged. I mean, they were outright laughing at him. And you know what DeAndre said about being challenged? Surprisingly, he didn't demand that they settle it outside. Finally, after he was read his rights, he gave up and asked for a lawyer. So they put him in handcuffs.

[Detective]

That's a little tight. I said, this one you just put on. It's a little tight. I can feel my finger. This is in it. This is literally in it. Let's do one thing at a time here. One thing at a time. Okay? When I sit and Walk. It scratches on the back of this. I have one already. All day walking around. Who? How exactly? So, again, please, I'm asking you nicely to please put this. Could you please loosen this?

[Mike Boudet]

I wonder how often the whole I'm asking you nicely bullshit has paid off for him in the past. That veiled threat. After his arrest, Deandre Holliday was charged with multiple felonies, including first degree murder, intentional homicide of an unborn child, and concealment of a homicidal death. Apparently, the motive didn't have anything to do with the child being someone else's. According to statements he made, he was okay with that because he had a girlfriend. During the same time he and Lisa were apart, that girlfriend became pregnant. So in his mind, it was tit for tat. The motive was nothing more than a mentally unfit, abusive and sick person grasping for control and losing it. During an argument. He lost control and Liza lost her life. He must have, quote, unquote, asked her nicely a whole lot that day. At first, questions came up about his mental fitness to stand trial. I mean, he did hear voices, including the voice of that imaginary woman, Ruth. At first, he was found unfit and committed to a state institution for treatment. But after several months, he was deemed competent to stand trial. In December 2024, Holloway pleaded guilty to the charges. In January 2025, he was sentenced to 60 years in prison. 30 years for first degree murder, 20 years for the homicide of an unborn child, and 10 years for concealment of a homicidal death. During the investigation, authorities discovered the final but most important thing that was missing. It was Lisa Dodd's beautiful, but severed head in a dumpster behind a business on Milton Road. Wrapped in bedding inside a white laundry basket. Lisa's neighbors who heard it all will never forget that they failed to call 911 that night. And you can't really help but feel sorry for them, at least a little bit. I mean, how the hell were they supposed to know that those dull thuds that they heard that night were chopping sounds?

[Heidi Noel]

They let us know that somebody was found dead next door. To have to lose a child that way. And that baby is an extension of her mother and the rest of her family. So they lost a child as well. They lost two. Her family would not be burying her and their grandchild.

[Mike Boudet]

Monsters thrive in darkness and complacency. It makes them powerful and unstoppable. Heidi saw what so many others didn't. She saw the danger. She named it. She documented it. She took her daughter's phone, called the police and begged her to come home. She stood between Lisa and the chaos with everything she had, but it was never her problem to solve. All she could do as a parent was exactly what she did. Sometimes, no matter how hard you try to help and guide your children, it's up to them to decide their own path. And that path can be treacherous and filled with monsters. Heidi's words to DeAndre at sentencing were, I do not hate you. The world holds enough anger and hate for you that I don't have to carry those emotions. I'm sad and disappointed in you. Disappointed that you didn't keep your word when you told me you wouldn't come back the next time you left. Sad you thought your mental instability was a free pass from being held accountable for your crimes. Sad that you destroyed so many lives, so many hopes and dreams, including your own.

[Heidi Noel]

That night that I saw her on June 8, when we were having our conversation about the baby shower, she had actually said, I. I wish I could see baby Bean tonight. I'm ready to see my baby now, McCragan. And I said, well, she's not ready yet. It's, you know, she was 33 weeks at when this happened, 33 weeks along. And I said, well, she's not ready. And she goes, but, you know, she's viable if she. People have babies at 22 and 24 weeks and they live. And I'm like, well, that's true, but, you know, let's let her cook in there a little bit longer. So the fact that that night she got to be with her baby does bring me comfort. And in my mind's eye, I see God and Bean waiting for Liza to join them to walk her home.

[Mike Boudet]

Unfortunately, sometimes your baby just isn't ready yet. And no matter how much you try to help them make the right decisions to let go of those toxic relationships and move on to better things, they just aren't ready yet.

[Heidi Noel]

Sam.

[Mike Boudet]

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[Detective]

Sam.

[Podcast Advertiser]

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