Episode 326

Summary

Sword and Scale, Episode 326: Cabin Murder in Sugar Grove, Ohio

Release Date: November 2, 2025

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Overview

This episode of Sword and Scale recounts the harrowing chain of events that began as a birthday weekend cabin party and ended with a fatal stabbing in Sugar Grove, Ohio, in April 2023. Through raw 911 calls, witness interviews, and pointed detective interrogations, the show reconstructs how a night of youthful revelry devolved into tragedy, resulting in the death of 22-year-old Charlie Starner at the hands of Isaac Pence — a troubled, violent young man with a history of alcohol-fueled aggression and a toxic relationship with his fiancee, Sabra Flagg. The episode exposes layers of denial, deception, and dysfunctional relationships, ultimately reflecting on the unpredictability and randomness of lethal violence.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Night Unravels: From Celebration to Chaos

• Cabin Party Setting

  • Dalton Flagg rents a remote cabin to celebrate his 23rd birthday, inviting friends and family. (06:05)
  • The party atmosphere is "everything you'd expect" from young adults—alcohol, weed, even open cocaine use. (07:35)
  • Among the guests: Charlie Starner, a well-liked new father and pizzeria manager, and Isaac Pence, Dalton's sister Sabra's volatile fiance.

• The Turning Point

  • Isaac arrives later in the evening with Sabra. He starts drinking — against the wishes of host Dalton, who only allowed his attendance on the condition he remain sober due to past violent incidents. (10:28, 11:06)
  • As the night wears on, Isaac becomes "beyond drunk" and antagonistic, culminating in him physically attacking Dalton's girlfriend, Horizon (Horizon/Orison), by shoving her to the ground. (14:17, 65:07)
  • The partygoers, in response to seeing a woman assaulted and facing Isaac’s escalating aggression, demand that Isaac leave. A tense confrontation ensues both inside and outside the cabin. (15:01–16:57)

2. The Fatal Encounter

• Attempt to Defuse the Situation

  • A group of friends physically drags Isaac to his car to get him to leave. Sabra gets into the passenger seat. (17:12)
  • As friends try to keep Isaac in the car or urge him to leave, he suddenly grabs a work knife from the center console and violently attacks the nearest person: Charlie Starner, stabbing him multiple times, including in the neck and back. (17:34, Narrator at 18:20)

• Immediate Aftermath and Efforts to Save Charlie

  • Charlie collapses; friends, including a trained EMS guest, Amanda Chapman, desperately try to stem the bleeding and offer support, waiting for paramedics. (04:05, 19:16)
  • The urgency and chaos of the scene are captured in 911 audio and the panicked encouragement from friends:
    “You are the strongest person I have ever known. If anybody can make this and fight this, it’s you.” —Partygoer (03:34)
  • Charlie is airlifted to the hospital but succumbs to his wounds hours later. (47:12, 47:43)

3. Investigation and Interrogation: Lies and Evidence

• Initial Confusion and Identification of the Suspect

  • With many guests unfamiliar with each other and under the influence, details are murky at first. Nevertheless, witnesses consistently name Isaac Pence as the perpetrator. (09:19–12:38)

• Sabra and Isaac’s Deflections

  • Both Sabra and Isaac repeatedly lie to detectives, minimizing Isaac’s violence and blaming others, attempting to portray Isaac as a victim who was attacked first. (33:54, 36:51, 63:31)
  • Key memorable exchanges:
    “I didn’t even know someone got stabbed until way after we left.” —Sabra Flagg (33:16)
    “I just tried to, like, poke, like, hey, I have a knife. Calm down. They wouldn’t stop.” —Isaac Pence (38:38)

• Physical Evidence and Witness Testimony

  • Surveillance and cell phone footage definitively shows Isaac to be the aggressor, directly contradicting both his and Sabra's stories. Amanda Chapman's video is especially damning, showing that no one was attacking Isaac and people were in fact trying to close his door and get him to leave. (43:13–46:29, 39:39)
  • Detectives expose lies and inconsistencies:
    “You stabbed a guy in the arm one time? I think it was twice. Are you sure it wasn’t more than that? Because there are more stab wounds than that.” —Detective to Isaac (39:38)

• After the Stabbing: Flight and Disposal of Evidence

  • Isaac and Sabra flee, stopping at a friend’s (Justin) house, where Isaac disposes of the bloody knife in a bush, then to Sabra's mother's before going home. (33:32, 41:10)
  • Surveillance at Justin’s house confirms Isaac’s actions. Justin also testifies Isaac talked about returning to do further harm. (41:53)

4. Detention, Family Dynamics, and Further Violence

• Home Life Exposed

  • Police discover Isaac and Sabra’s children live in squalid conditions: a filthy house, neglected pets, and an environment dangerous for children. (26:14–29:22)
  • Most childcare falls on Isaac's mother. Both Isaac and Sabra's histories of drinking and violent behavior are acknowledged by family members. (26:18, 27:18, 27:51)

• Detective Pressure and the Collapse of Lies

  • With overwhelming evidence, detectives confront Isaac and Sabra separately with the truth about Charlie’s death and the consequences they now face.
    “You’re going to jail today. If I have my way, you’re going as an accomplice to murder.” —Detective to Sabra (59:37, Opening)
  • Both try to downplay or forget their actions:
    “I kind of blacked out after I got him the second time because I stabbed him on some point. … I just kind of blacked out. I think I just done twice and then left.” —Isaac (61:10)

5. Legal Outcomes and Reflections

• Charging and Sentencing

  • Isaac Pence charged with murder and related felonies; Sabra is initially charged as an accomplice but eventually pleads to obstruction of justice, serving six months. Isaac is sentenced to 18 years to life. (73:23–73:44)
  • The host decries the leniency as insufficient for such a senseless, random act of violence. (73:44)

• Victim’s Innocence and Randomness of Violence

  • Charlie and Isaac were strangers; Charlie was simply trying to deescalate the situation.
    “Charlie Starner was just 22 years old… All of a sudden, it was stolen in an instant… That one moment of courage cost him everything.” (75:27)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• "Some nights start with laughter and end with sirens. No one sees it coming until it’s too late." —Narrator (00:47)

• On Isaac's history of violence:
  “By nearly all accounts, Isaac Pence had a reputation for being a violent drunk. He had only just recently been released from jail for assaulting Sabra and Dalton’s mother.” —Narrator (11:37)

• On the attempt to keep Isaac away:
  “A group surrounded Isaac, telling him to leave. At the same time, a smaller group held Dalton back, trying to stop him from launching into a fistfight with Isaac.” —Narrator (15:18)

• On the random nature of Charlie's death:
  “Charlie died because he happened to be standing in the wrong place at the wrong time, at the hands of a violent man that he had never met. That’s how easy it is, folks. That’s how quickly it can all end.” —Narrator (74:24)

• On the lack of remorse:
  “Not one time today have you or Sabra asked how that kid is. … You have no care or concern for him? … Did you know that he has a 10 month old son? … So now you left another baby without a parent. Just like your kids are gonna be left without their parents.” —Detective to Sabra and Isaac (54:54, 55:04, 55:10, 55:14, 55:16)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Setting the Scene & The Stabbing: 00:15–18:55
• Initial Investigation and Witness Interviews: 05:00–13:33
• Revelations about Isaac's History: 10:28–12:38
• Sabra and Isaac's Initial Police Interviews: 29:47–34:14, 34:25–41:10
• Justin's Disclosure and Murder Weapon Recovery: 41:10–41:53
• Phone & Surveillance Footage Breakdown: 43:13–46:29
• Detectives Deliver News of Charlie’s Death: 47:12–47:43, 49:52–50:54
• Detective Deconstruction of Lies: 55:27–57:18
• Sentencing and Legal Outcome: 73:23–74:24
• Reflection on Charlie’s Innocence: 75:04–75:27

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Tone and Language

• The episode maintains Sword and Scale’s signature unsparing, sometimes caustic tone, highlighting the stupidity, selfishness, and denial of the perpetrators while clearly sympathizing with Charlie Starner and his family. The host is openly critical, particularly when describing Sabra and Isaac or the conditions in which their children lived, often employing biting sarcasm and dark humor:
  “This dumb bitch was handcuffed and taken to jail.” (59:41)
  “I swear, you’ll never convince a retard they’re not a genius.” (35:37)

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Summary Takeaway

Sword and Scale Episode 326 serves as a chilling reminder of the unpredictability of violence and the fragility of life. A single night of drinking, compounded by longstanding dysfunction and unchecked rage, destroyed multiple lives. The episode's raw testimony, combined with unvarnished host commentary, paints a bleak, honest picture of the ripple effects of impulsive brutality — and how, sometimes, the "worst monsters are real."

Transcript

[Narrator]

Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.

[Sabra Flagg]

And this made me realize I need to step up and be a better mom.

[Detective]

I mean, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you're not going to get the opportunity for a long, long time. Not only is the state going to have custody of your children, you're going to jail today. If I have my way, you're going as an accomplice to murder.

[Narrator]

Some nights start with laughter and end with sirens. No one sees it coming until it's too late. Some nights are simply born under a bad sign. You likely won't even feel it at first. The music's loud, the drinks are flowing, and it all feels harmless enough. But violence rarely announces itself. It rarely sends an RSVP with a self addressed stamped envelope. Often it builds quietly, bubbling beneath the surface until it does what all bubbles do and it bursts without warning. And when it does, the people who pay the price are rarely the ones looking for trouble. They're the ones standing too close when the world suddenly tilts towards chaos.

[Detective]

Shoulder? There's not a shoulder back? No.

[Sabra Flagg]

I'm gonna turn it back.

[Isaac Pence]

Okay, calm down. How many times you've been stabbed? I think five.

[Narrator]

Multiple times.

[Isaac Pence]

Okay.

[Sabra Flagg]

I watched it happen. The guy had been. He stabbed him in the shoulder. He had wound to the neck.

[Narrator]

On April 23, 2023, at about 3am deputies from the Hocking County Sheriff's Office were dispatched to a remote cabin tucked deep in the woods of Sugar Grove, a lovely village in the wonderful state of Ohio, which we love so much on this program, namely because of all the wonderful and colorful people that live there and all of the wonderful content they bring us. When deputies finally arrived to their destination, they found a group of young adults gathered near the front porch of the cabin. They were visibly shaken, clustered around a young man sprawled on the ground. The young man was covered in blood. He had been stabbed several times and time was running out.

[Sabra Flagg]

Come on, baby. Charlie, you're so true.

[Isaac Pence]

Is he breathing?

[Sabra Flagg]

Yes, he is.

[Detective]

How much you look.

[Isaac Pence]

Anything bleeding on his back?

[Detective]

Yes.

[Narrator]

Aggressively, deputies learned that the young man's name was Charlie. While waiting for paramedics to arrive. His friends hovered close, applying makeshift bandages and holding pressure on his stab wounds. They urged Charlie to hang on and keep fighting.

[Sabra Flagg]

You got it. You're so tough. Come on, Charlie. Yeah, you got it.

[Isaac Pence]

Slide him over.

[Sabra Flagg]

Come on, Charlie.

[Narrator]

Keep breathing, brother.

[Sabra Flagg]

It's so good. Come on your pushes.

[Detective]

You're so fucking strong.

[Sabra Flagg]

I think about how Strong.

[Detective]

Strong. You're going to be. You are the strongest person I have ever known. If anybody can make this and fight this, it's you. There we go.

[Sabra Flagg]

Squad's here. The squad's here, Charlie.

[Detective]

Yeah.

[Sabra Flagg]

Come on, Charlie. I'm so proud.

[Detective]

I'm so proud.

[Sabra Flagg]

You're doing so good. Keep pushing for us.

[Isaac Pence]

All right, Model stab W to the neck, abdomen.

[Sabra Flagg]

How big was the knife, you guys?

[Detective]

I'm not quite sure.

[Sabra Flagg]

He has about five stab wounds.

[Narrator]

After several agonizing minutes, paramedics arrived on scene and Charlie was gurneyed into an ambulance.

[Isaac Pence]

How did you count nine stab wounds, Jeffy? One, two, three, four, five. One on his back makes six. Six stab wounds. You got two to the right jaw, ear, one to the neck, one to the top part of like his trap, one to the bicep, and one on the back.

[Narrator]

Charlie was in critical condition and he was soon airlifted to the nearest trauma center where doctors and surgeons would attempt to save his life. Back at the cabin, deputies began the grim task of piecing together what had gone so violently wrong.

[Isaac Pence]

Who all witnessed the stabbing?

[Sabra Flagg]

I saw everything.

[Isaac Pence]

You saw everything. So who else seen it?

[Detective]

You two?

[Narrator]

Just you two. Okay.

[Isaac Pence]

All right, I got some detectives coming.

[Narrator]

Roughly 15 to 20 potential witnesses remained at the scene, all of them in their early 20s. Deputies corralled the group around a nearby fire pit and waited for detectives to arrive. When the inside of the cabin was searched, deputies found all the markings of a fun college like party. Decorations hung from the ceiling, beer bottles littered every surface. The kitchen sink overflowed with dishes, and a table in the living room showed signs of a recently played drinking game. Back outside, the first detectives pulled up and questioning began.

[Isaac Pence]

So first of all, what time did you get here?

[Sabra Flagg]

I got here yesterday.

[Isaac Pence]

Okay, so it's now almost six o' clock on Sunday morning.

[Sabra Flagg]

I got here on Friday.

[Detective]

Friday, Yeah, I help decorate and set up.

[Isaac Pence]

Okay, so when you say decorate and.

[Sabra Flagg]

Set up, what Was this, his 23rd birthday?

[Detective]

Dalton.

[Isaac Pence]

Okay, so this is Dalton's 23rd birthday?

[Sabra Flagg]

Yes.

[Narrator]

The two story wood cabin had been rented for the weekend by 23 year old Dalton Flagg as part of his birthday celebration.

[Detective]

All right, so this is your birthday party? Yes, that. Okay, so walk me through. How long have you guys been.

[Narrator]

We've been here the whole weekend.

[Isaac Pence]

Yeah, we got here Friday like 4pm I think it was.

[Narrator]

Dalton arrived at the cabin that Friday evening with his girlfriend and roommate. The three of them started setting up, decorating the space in anticipation of what they hoped would be a carefree weekend. Of partying with friends. Naturally, Dalton had sent out the invites, including one to 22 year old Charles Starner, known to most as Charlie or Chuck. Charlie was a manager at a small pizzeria where he employed several of his friends. He was engaged and the father of a nine month old son. That night, Charlie showed up to a party with his fiance and two close friends.

[Detective]

So you get here tonight around 7pm?

[Narrator]

Yep.

[Detective]

Okay. You rode down with Charlie, Caleb and Rachel?

[Isaac Pence]

Yep.

[Detective]

Okay. What happens when you guys get here? Everything is fine and dandy.

[Isaac Pence]

Yeah, everything was fine. That kid wasn't even here when I first got here. He didn't show up for the kid that stabbed Charlie wasn't here for hours when I was here and everything was fine.

[Detective]

Okay.

[Narrator]

The atmosphere at the cabin was everything you'd expect from a typical college aged party. People were drinking heavily, some smoking weed, and a few others were openly using cocaine. The hot tub was in use, drinking games were underway, and everyone seemed to be having a great time until suddenly they weren't.

[Isaac Pence]

You said it was pretty chill. And then how did we get to this?

[Sabra Flagg]

Honestly, I don't know.

[Isaac Pence]

Where were you at?

[Sabra Flagg]

I was inside and I just heard people screaming, so I ran out to look because obviously I'm nosy, but me and Ryan, like heard them yelling, so we ran out to check it out.

[Detective]

And they were just fighting. Which.

[Isaac Pence]

Who's they?

[Sabra Flagg]

It was just a bunch of the guys.

[Isaac Pence]

So there's more than two people fighting?

[Sabra Flagg]

It wasn't really fighting. Everyone was just yelling at each other. And then we went inside because we didn't really think anything of it. Then we heard a bunch of screaming and I came out and that's when I saw like the guy. I don't even know who he was.

[Isaac Pence]

So the guy you're talking about, the person who was hurt or the person that was hurt?

[Sabra Flagg]

I seen him.

[Isaac Pence]

So you saw him bleeding? Where was he bleeding from?

[Sabra Flagg]

I think his neck.

[Detective]

I don't know.

[Sabra Flagg]

I just seen blood, like dripping down him and that freaked me out. And I took off running into the woods because I was scared.

[Narrator]

One of the first challenges detectives faced was that not everyone at the party had witnessed the stabbing. To make matters worse, many of the attendees were strangers to one another, having met for the first time that night. When questioned, several had trouble recalling names, making the investigation difficult to untangle.

[Isaac Pence]

Do you know who did this or were you told something? No, I know his name. Okay. Isaac Pence. Isaac Pence? I don't know how to spell it. Isaac Pence. How do you Know he's the one. Everyone said it. He was the one that drove the car, pulled the car out of here. I don't know what kind of car it was. Did you see him leave? I seen him peel out with the car, yeah. It was. Anybody with him? I think his fiance.

[Narrator]

Despite the challenges, detectives managed to determine who had been stabbed and perhaps more importantly, who had done the stabbing. Over and over, the partygoers pointed to one person, A young man named Isaac Pence.

[Detective]

So you guys are hanging out. When does Isaac arrive?

[Isaac Pence]

I couldn't tell you like an exact time. If I had to guess, I'd say.

[Detective]

11. Who's he arrived with?

[Isaac Pence]

Sabra.

[Detective]

And is that his.

[Isaac Pence]

Fiance? I think. I think they're main gauge. Maybe. I'm not positive on that part.

[Detective]

Okay.

[Isaac Pence]

I know they're dating for sure.

[Narrator]

20 year old Isaac Pence arrived at the cabin with his fiance, Sabra Flagg, who is the sister of the birthday host, Dalton Flagg. Sabra was the only reason Isaac had been invited in the first place. And it didn't take long for detectives to learn that Isaac and Dalton had a rocky history.

[Isaac Pence]

How long have her and Isaac been together?

[Sabra Flagg]

Like four to five years.

[Isaac Pence]

So do you know Isaac?

[Detective]

Yeah.

[Isaac Pence]

Who is he? What do you mean? Like a person.

[Narrator]

I'm a good person.

[Sabra Flagg]

When he's not drinking? Yes. When he's drinking?

[Isaac Pence]

No. Isaac was drinking?

[Sabra Flagg]

Yes. Anytime he drinks, he is very violent.

[Isaac Pence]

Has Isaac and Dalton ever had bad blood before?

[Sabra Flagg]

Yes.

[Isaac Pence]

Over what?

[Sabra Flagg]

Because he just. He doesn't treat Sabre well.

[Isaac Pence]

At all.

[Sabra Flagg]

Yeah, but they never gotten along. And I told like I like Sabre wanted to come. And Dawn's like Isaac would only allow.

[Detective]

Her to come if he came with her. And Dalton was like not okay with it, but he said as long as he's not drinking.

[Sabra Flagg]

But as soon as he came in the house, he was really drinking.

[Isaac Pence]

Has Isaac been in trouble before?

[Narrator]

For what?

[Sabra Flagg]

Drinking, for one. I know he's on probation for something he's not supposed to be drinking. And he is.

[Narrator]

By nearly all accounts. Isaac Pence had a reputation for being a violent drunk. He had only just recently been released from jail for assaulting Sabra and Dalton's mother. Dalton knew Isaac was trouble. He didn't want him at the party, especially not in a secluded cabin in the woods. But to keep peace with his sister, Dalton gave in and allowed Isaac to attend. That would turn out to be a grave mistake.

[Detective]

Who was Isaac with? Who did he flee with?

[Isaac Pence]

My sister, Sabre.

[Narrator]

Fi.

[Isaac Pence]

She stays with Isaac and his parents.

[Detective]

So she lives with Isaac and his parents.

[Isaac Pence]

Yeah. And Isaac's had issues in the past. He's put his hands on my sister, and he just literally went to jail three months ago for putting his hands on my mom.

[Detective]

How old's Isaac?

[Narrator]

20?

[Isaac Pence]

21.

[Narrator]

By this point, detectives had started to piece together the key relationships and some of the night's events. But this information hadn't come quickly. Hours had passed, and partygoers were now sobering up. Many were growing restless and increasingly impatient with the process.

[Isaac Pence]

I want to go home. I've been sitting here for four hours. I'm freezing my ball sack off. Can I go home?

[Detective]

We're not.

[Isaac Pence]

I get it. I am cold as. Bro, why are you. Why are you choking me?

[Detective]

Why are you choking me right now?

[Sabra Flagg]

He's trying to get your attention.

[Isaac Pence]

Record this shit. Record this shit. Hey, record them.

[Detective]

Have a fucking choking me out right now.

[Narrator]

That guy was taken to jail for disrupting the scene of an emergency. And the interviews continued as detectives continued to ask questions. They eventually learned how the party was turned into a scene of chaos and violence.

[Detective]

All right, so what started this whole argument?

[Isaac Pence]

So most people were leaving. Isaac was beyond drunk. And he was calling everyone, like, names. I don't even. Like, I don't even know why he was acting the way he was, because everybody was leaving and everything.

[Narrator]

Like, everything.

[Isaac Pence]

We were all done.

[Narrator]

He started acting bluet pushing other people. Me and my girl were there. I was like, hey, bro, like, just leave.

[Isaac Pence]

Like, you're fine. You're good.

[Narrator]

Like, just.

[Isaac Pence]

You're good. Just leave, like. And then when he asked him to leave, he got super mad. They started raising their voices at each other, and for some reason, he pushed horizon really hard, like it into a table.

[Detective]

Okay.

[Isaac Pence]

And then that was when things, like, really escalated because now Dalton was super mad because his girlfriend got pushed, and they were just, like, screaming at each other.

[Sabra Flagg]

He didn't want to leave. He came charging, pushed me on the ground and charged at Dalton. And then that's when Dalton came back at him and everyone pulled him off. And then he started coming at everyone else in the house, and then that's when it went outside.

[Narrator]

Several witnesses explained that the violence started when Dalton asked Isaac to leave. In response, Isaac shoved Dalton's girlfriend a risen, sending her crashing to the ground. The moment people saw Isaac put his hands on a woman, the atmosphere snapped. Voices exploded in anger, and the confrontation spilled outside onto the driveway across of the cabin.

[Detective]

What happens when they get outside?

[Sabra Flagg]

There was a group of people telling him to leave. We told him we were about to call 911 if he didn't leave. And everyone kept saying, no, don't. His or his baby mom said, no, don't call 911. He's on probation. He's gonna get in trouble.

[Narrator]

A crowd quickly formed. A large group surrounded Isaac, telling him to leave. At the same time, a smaller group held Dalton back, trying to stop him from launching into a fistfight with Isaac.

[Isaac Pence]

Like, I was trying to come out and Cray and all them are old man. Like, it's not worth it. Just, he's leaving.

[Detective]

Cray.

[Isaac Pence]

Yeah, Craig's right over there.

[Detective]

Is that his real name?

[Isaac Pence]

Yeah, I think it's like, C R A Y.

[Narrator]

Sorry to interrupt the flow of the story here, but I have a question to ask. What the hell's going on with the names at this party? Cray, Sabra, Arisen, Tekka, and Cinnamon, just to name a few. What the hell? What kind of dope smoking, bead wearing, crystal charging, music festival, attending double wide living, minimum wage earning, antifa supporting, wannabe hippie parents. Name these dumbass children. Way to set up your kin for success with a name like Cinnamon, by the way. Sure, that'll keep her off the pole. Next up on stage, Cinnam. Anyway, Dalton was being held back by his friends who were telling him not to fight Isaac, while several others were shouting at Isaac, telling him to get into his car and pedal his little ass out of there.

[Detective]

What did you see or observe from that time forward?

[Sabra Flagg]

A whole bunch of pushing, shoving, yelling.

[Detective]

Pushing, yelling, shoving. Okay, and then what happened?

[Isaac Pence]

It was a sick. Eventually carried to his car by like three or four people trying to get him to. Like, there wasn't no him wanting to leave. Like, he was definitely.

[Detective]

It was more like a forceful, like.

[Isaac Pence]

Yeah, he had. Yeah, like there was multiple guys grabbing him and trying to shove him in his own car, trying to get him to just be gone.

[Detective]

Okay, and where is. Is it Saber?

[Isaac Pence]

Yeah. Sabre got in the car with him.

[Detective]

Into the passenger seat.

[Narrator]

Okay. Several guys dragged Isaac to the driver's side of his car at about the same time, Isaac's fiance Sabra hopped in the passenger seat of the same car.

[Detective]

So at this point, they're in the car and there's a couple people, like, banging on the windows. He gets mad and opens.

[Isaac Pence]

And he opened the door, and Charlie was one of the people that were trying to get him in the car and get him to leave. He just happened to be the guy in front of the driver's door, just grabbed him for whatever reason and started stabbing him. Like, it was like, six times, too. And I saw Charlie fall to the ground.

[Detective]

Does he immediately get back in the car and leave? What's the next course of action?

[Isaac Pence]

He just gets in his car, slams the door, and spins his tires and drives up the driveway. That kid was definitely crazy.

[Sabra Flagg]

I walk inside, and then I think, like, 10 minutes after they come out, and he said he just stabbed him. He just stabbed him. What is going on? What are you looking for? She's like, charlie just got stabbed.

[Narrator]

When Isaac was forced into his car, he reached into the center console, pulled out a small work knife, grabbed the nearest person, and just started stabbing. I mean, that's what I always do when I'm frustrated. His unlucky victim was Charlie Starner. With no warning, Charlie was struck multiple times, including potentially fatal stabs to his back and neck. He collapsed to the ground, bleeding heavily, while Isaac slammed his car door shut and sped off with Sabra. You know, like the hummus.

[Sabra Flagg]

I was standing up on the porch, and I watched him get stabbed right there next to my truck.

[Detective]

And.

[Sabra Flagg]

Jimmy, the guy who's covered in blood, he carried him over here to the other side of my truck, where that big pool of blood is. And I opened up the back of my truck and started rummaging through and grabbing my med kits.

[Narrator]

Among the guests at the party was a young woman named Amanda Chapman, who had a background in ems. When Charlie went down, Amanda rushed to her truck, grabbed a medical kit, and began doing everything she could to help.

[Sabra Flagg]

Tonight was just not right, and that was terrifying.

[Detective]

I understand completely. With the two that were out here, can you identify both of them?

[Sabra Flagg]

So Charlie's the one that I was the one sternal rub on. I don't know, the guy that was in the car that stabbed him. I guess his girl took off with him. Okay, everybody that's here right now, I really don't think anything was malicious, but the dude who fled like he was.

[Narrator]

Out to kill multiple people at the party called 911. As they waited, they hovered helplessly around Charlie, watching Amanda and a few others render what little aid they could as Charlie was bleeding out on the ground. Everyone hoped that help would get there in time.

[Isaac Pence]

Did Charlie say anything? I heard no words come out of that man's mouth. And that's what I think. That's what fucked me up the most. Charlie conscious or unconscious for a while. He was conscious. I couldn't be outside for the rest of it. I couldn't see it. I had to call his mom, let him. Let her know what's going on. When Charlie was conscious, he didn't say nothing at all? He didn't say nothing. He didn't say what happened? Nope. He couldn't.

[Detective]

He couldn't. He couldn't.

[Isaac Pence]

He was bleeding out.

[Narrator]

While first responders were on route, and throughout the rest of the morning, Dalton's girlfriend exchanged text messages with Sabra, who was presumably still sitting in the passenger seat next to Isaac.

[Detective]

Did you have any contact with the suspect or Sabre after they left here?

[Sabra Flagg]

She texted me and I texted her back, okay.

[Detective]

What did the text message say?

[Sabra Flagg]

She started 2:56. I'm going to need my shoes and my purse back.

[Detective]

Hello?

[Sabra Flagg]

I need you to answer right now.

[Detective]

Hello?

[Sabra Flagg]

I said, we have your shit. You'll get it tomorrow. She said, I have to have it. What the hell was that?

[Detective]

Huh?

[Sabra Flagg]

His fringe jumped him. I said, you're not getting it till tomorrow. I said, you show up, with you and Isaac, it's all going to be bad.

[Narrator]

What stood out most about this text exchange is what wasn't said. At no point did Sabra ask how Charlie was doing. Her only concern was retrieving her purse and a few other meaningless belongings she'd left behind at the cabin.

[Sabra Flagg]

She said, I'm going to need my glasses, shoes, and purse or y' all going to prison. She said, the key to my goddamn work, and if I don't get it back, I'll call the fucking cops. Then she texts me at 4:32. I need my shit. What's going on?

[Narrator]

Once paramedics arrived, Charlie was quickly rushed to a trauma center and prepared for emergency surgery. Back at the cabin, detectives got to work interviewing witnesses, searching the scene, and trying to understand exactly what had gone down while doing this. They got some interesting news.

[Isaac Pence]

Hey.

[Detective]

Yeah. Allegedly, the suspect's on his way back here. Awesome. So they went to the hotel room where Sabre's mom is staying. She told him to get their shit and get out. And I don't know, she doesn't know if he's coming back to finish what.

[Narrator]

He started or what.

[Sabra Flagg]

Oh, nice.

[Narrator]

The detectives learned that Isaac Pence was still furious and he was headed back to the cabin. Apparently, stabbing someone several times hadn't been enough for him. He wanted more blood. He wanted to finish what he had started.

[Detective]

Limu emu.

[Narrator]

And Doug, here we have the Limu emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.

[Isaac Pence]

Uh, Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us. Cut the camera.

[Narrator]

They see us. Only pay for what you need at libertymutual.com Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings Ferry Unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates Excludes Massachusetts.

[Isaac Pence]

Time is precious and so are our pets. So time with our pets is extra precious.

[Narrator]

That's why we started Dutch.

[Isaac Pence]

Dutch provides 24. 7 access to licensed vets with unlimited virtual visits and follow ups for up to five pets. You can message a vet at any time and schedule a video visit the same day. Our vets can even prescribe medication for many ailments and shipping is always free. With Dutch, you'll get more time with your pets and years year round peace of mind when it comes to their vet care.

[Narrator]

And Doug, here we have the Limu emu in its natural habitat helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.

[Isaac Pence]

Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us. Cut the camera.

[Narrator]

They see us. Only pay for what you need@liberty mutual.com.

[Detective]

Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings Very underwritten.

[Narrator]

By Liberty Mutual Insurance Company affiliates excludes Massachusetts. In the early morning hours of April 23, 2023, 22 year old Charlie Starner was clinging to his life after being stabbed multiple times at a party at a secluded rental cabin in the woods of Sugar Grove, Ohio. Have I mentioned how nice Ohio is at this time of year? Ohio really is the heart of it all. When the heart isn't being stabbed, that is. As detectives scrambled to make sense of this chaos, witness after witness identified the attacker as 20 year old Isaac Pence. They also warned police that Isaac wasn't done. Apparently he planned a return to the cabin to finish what he started to prevent another wave of violence. Officers were posted at the end of the cabin's driveway where they braced for Isaac's return. But he never showed. By morning, police shifted gears and went looking for him. They found Isaac fast asleep at the home that he shared with his mother, stepfather, two younger siblings, and his fiance, the infamous Sabra flag. Officers took both Isaac and Sabra into custody and began questioning Isaac's mom.

[Detective]

Do you normally keep their children on a regular basis? Oh, yeah.

[Isaac Pence]

Okay.

[Detective]

And they go out and do whatever. Okay. Any history of drug use and abuse? No. How about alcohol? Yes. Between both of them or one of them. Her? Not so much. But you know, Isaac drinks just about every weekend. Would you say your son has anger issues?

[Narrator]

Oh, yeah.

[Detective]

Oh, yeah.

[Isaac Pence]

Okay.

[Detective]

And sometimes he. He does get really mad when he's drinking.

[Narrator]

When detectives arrived at Isaac's home, they were met with A few surprises. First, they discovered that Isaac and Sabra had two young children, a one year old and a four month old. Yet neither of them seemed to be carrying themselves like parents. Are you surprised or are you starting to recognize patterns yet? The day to day care of the children fell mostly to Isaac's mother, who also informed investigators that her son struggled with alcoholism and a history of violent behavior. Nuh, duh.

[Detective]

How long have they lived here with you? Isaac's been here his whole life. Sabra has been here on and off.

[Isaac Pence]

For the last.

[Detective]

Two years, three years. Is that about how long they've been together? They've been together four years. Four years. Okay.

[Narrator]

Once they gathered enough background information on Isaac and Sabra, detectives turned their focus to the night of the stabbing. They asked Isaac's parents what they knew about the party at the cabin.

[Detective]

Do you know where Isaac and Sabra were at last night? I have no clue. Okay. Do you know what time they arrived back at the home? They showed up at about 5 o' clock because they woke me up beating on the door. Okay, so they were beating on the door. Arrived back here at about 5am did they say anything to you when they came in? Not really. Did you notice anything out of the norm? Just seemed like they were like irritated, like mad. Okay.

[Narrator]

Another thing that took detectives by surprise was the state of the home. You see, it was completely filthy. There was trash thrown about everywhere and the stench of urine and dog shit was just overwhelming. Then again, this was Ohio.

[Isaac Pence]

How long has your house been like this? So height, as far as, you know, a hole here, there in the wall and this and that. Trash in the yard or what? Talking trash in the house. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Detective]

We're.

[Isaac Pence]

Had a hell of time trying to keep everything cleaned up since, you know, we don't have any help at all. And like I'm recuperating from a heart attack. We just had a heart attack and I was the one that had. I had a tester and the ammonia level in your house is ridiculous.

[Narrator]

Concerned by the smell, detectives tested for ammonia levels inside the home. The results were off the charts, which is an extreme health risk, especially for children. When asked about it, Isaac's parents pointed the finger squarely at Isaac and Sabra.

[Isaac Pence]

But the whole dog thing that they've had in that bedroom the whole time that they've had that dog here, they don't take it out to use the bathroom or nothing else. They just use the bathroom everywhere.

[Detective]

Yeah.

[Narrator]

After removing Isaac and Sabra from their disgusting home, officers transported both of Them to the sheriff's office. Once there, Sabro was the first to be interviewed.

[Sabra Flagg]

My brother's the one who threw the.

[Isaac Pence]

Party for his birthday, right?

[Sabra Flagg]

Yes, for his birthday.

[Isaac Pence]

And what's your brother's name?

[Sabra Flagg]

Dawn Flag.

[Detective]

Okay. And he.

[Sabra Flagg]

I already talked it with him. And I was like, you know, because they've. My brother and Isaac have had some issues in the past, but they were trying to get over it because my brother wanted to be more involved in my life. He wanted to be more involved in his nephew's life. And I was like, well, he's part of my life. You know, I love him. I want to work things out with him. He's the father of both of my kids. So he was like, yeah, that's fine. You guys can come. You know, just no drama. I was like, yeah, he's fine. He's probably not even drinking. And if he does, he just only.

[Detective]

Got to drink a little bit.

[Sabra Flagg]

Cuz we have to go home. I have to open.

[Narrator]

Sabre began her interview by explaining how she and Isaac ended up at her brother Dalton's birthday party at the cabin. She admitted Dalton didn't want Isaac there, but she had convinced him that there would be no drama. That promise, of course, was broken. Sabra went on to describe how the night changed from fun and happy times to horrible, bloody violence.

[Sabra Flagg]

And all of a sudden I hear this, like, you know, arguing. And I was like, oh, my gosh, please tell me it's not with Isaac. I go out and I hear like, a bunch of different stories. Isaac and a few other people are saying that he accidentally pushed Orison, which is my brother's girlfriend. Then my brother's sitting here saying he intentionally pushed her. I don't think he intentionally pushed her. He's not that type of person. He's not violent, especially with girls. So I know he's not that type of person. And they're sitting here arguing. I'm 20, trying to talk to Isaac to calm him down, because I'm like, one of the only people that can calm him down. I'm like, okay, let's just, you know, if anything, let's just go in your car, sit for like a couple hours, and then we can go home. And then they followed us outside. They all started like, like trying to fight Isaac all at the same time. I don't know exactly who it was because there were so many people, but I know that there was like three or four people trying to find Isaac at the time.

[Narrator]

Same in time, Sabra's version of events clashed with Just about every other witness. According to her, Isaac wasn't the aggressor. He was the victim. Backed into a corner and forced to defend himself against a group of guys just looking for a fight out of nowhere. Oh, my gosh.

[Sabra Flagg]

And it was like, 10 guys, all my brother's friends. And this guy, I think his name is Claire Clay, he pushed Isaac, and Isaac went flying back into a car. And Isaac, I don't know if he, like, pushed him or back or what he did, but I tried to intervene, and I was like, he's just trying to protect himself. Like, there's, like, 10 guys jumping him. And I was like. I was like, it's not his fault. And somehow I fall, and they're, like, trampling all over me. I have a big bruise on my knee. And then I still hear them fighting over here. And Isaac, he got in the car, and he goes, sabre, come on, come on, come on. Then I got in the car, and he drove off, because I think people were coming back at him, and he was like, okay, I'm done. And so we just drove off.

[Narrator]

There was one glaring omission in Sabre's story. Did you catch it? I'll give you a hint. It has to do with pointy things going stabby, stabby. Weird how she missed the most interesting part of the story, huh? Naturally, detectives pressed her about this.

[Sabra Flagg]

I didn't even know someone got stabbed until way after we left. And Isaac was like, I think I stabbed that dude. I think I stabbed him. I was like, what the heck do you mean? He's like, I think I stabbed him. I was like, oh, my God, Isaac. I was like, you literally ran away. Like, that's not what you should do.

[Narrator]

Sabre claimed she hadn't seen anyone get stabbed and that she only heard about it afterwards. She wasn't too curious about it either. In fact, she doesn't seem to be too curious about anything, really. When asked where she and Isaac went after fleeing the cabin, she said they made a quick stop at a friend's house, someone named Justin, before heading home.

[Isaac Pence]

So when you were at Justin's house, what did you guys do there?

[Sabra Flagg]

So we just stopped there to look at Isaac's car, and then I went in and peed or used the bathroom.

[Detective]

And.

[Sabra Flagg]

And then I came out, and I was looking on Isaac's car with him and Justin. They smoked a cigarette, and then we left, and then we went straight home.

[Narrator]

This brief stop at Justin's would eventually become an important part of this case, but more on that later. After questioning Sabra Detectives moved on to Isaac.

[Isaac Pence]

Who you live in with? My mom, my stepdad. Okay. I got a little brother, a little sister. Okay. And Sabra and my two kids. And who's Sabra? My fiance.

[Detective]

Okay.

[Isaac Pence]

All right. And how old are your children? One is one and one is four months. How far did you make it through school? About, I think, 11th grade. 11th grade. Okay. Did you get your GED or anything? No, I went straight into concrete as soon as I turned 18.

[Detective]

Okay.

[Isaac Pence]

And I wanted to go and get a different career, but every time I go and I start different jobs, it's like, oh, well, just pull it off, put it off, put it off. Okay. I'm wanting to at some point.

[Narrator]

Okay. Detectives got more background info from Isaac, this overachiever. His criminal background wasn't extensive, but it was certainly concerning.

[Isaac Pence]

Have you been in trouble or anything at all? Yeah. Okay.

[Detective]

For what?

[Isaac Pence]

I got an assault charge on her mom. An assault charge on her mom?

[Detective]

Yeah.

[Isaac Pence]

How long ago was that? Probably six months. Yeah. I cannot win with this family.

[Narrator]

I cannot win with this family, he said after admitting to an assault charge on his girlfriend's mom, you know, his kid's grandma. He says this matter of factly and completely unironically. I swear, you'll never convince a retard they're not a genius. Going forward, you'll start to see a pattern here with Isaac. If you're smart enough to see patterns, nothing is ever his fault.

[Isaac Pence]

So sounds like you guys came up here for a birthday party. Is that correct? Yeah.

[Narrator]

So whose birthday was?

[Isaac Pence]

It was her brother's birthday. Me and her brothers never got along. Okay. I was sitting there the whole time. I was like, I know this is a bad idea. I want to make her happy. So I was like, you know, I will try to put my pride aside. Let's go ahead and go. Okay. We were there. Everything was good. Well, everything was completely fine, and we're having a good time.

[Narrator]

Isaac claimed that he didn't want to go to Dalton's birthday party. But out of the goodness of his heart, he decided that being there would make Sabra happy. What a selfless, stand up guy he is.

[Isaac Pence]

We were all standing right here in the hallway and someone ended up pushing me, so I pushed him back. Well, Dalton thought that I pushed his girlfriend, Eliza, and so he got all pissed off. That's when everyone tried to jump me. Well, I kind of know what I'm doing a little bit, so I started throwing them to the side. I went outside, and that's when they started trying to come at me. It was all of them at once. Okay. And so I was just tossing to the side, and they all just kept coming. So I went to my car, and I shut the door. I was telling sabre. I was like, hey, if you want to go, then we're going. Well, they came and they got them past their car, and they took her sunglasses, or no, her actual glasses and her purse out, trying to keep her just stay there. And I was like, well, with everything going on, like, I'm going to leave.

[Narrator]

Much like sabra, Isaac's version of events clashed with every other witness. That's because absolutely no murder in the history of mankind has ever started with a completely innocent dude getting pushed and mobbed at a festive gathering for absolutely no reason. But don't let common sense smack you across the face.

[Isaac Pence]

Once they started sitting there trying to bust the glass to get to me, that's when I put out a knife. I was like, hey, you need to back up. And they didn't want to listen. No one wanted to listen. So you were in your car. So what did you do? Did you open the car door back up? No, they ended up opening my car door. They did? Yeah. It was two to three. Guys were sitting there, and they're just yanking on. I was trying to hold it as good as I could. They wanted some, so I was like, listen and just start poking out a little bit.

[Detective]

Okay.

[Isaac Pence]

Not like, I didn't try to do it to physically hurt anybody really bad, but I did it just to, like, poke, like, hey, I have a knife. Calm down. They wouldn't stop. They just kept going. So I tried to stab him, but one guy in the arm just so they would get him. So he was right there beside you? Yeah, he opened my corridor and was coming, trying to grab me. He was coming to try to grab me? Yeah, that's why I stabbed his arm. Well, as soon as I stabbed him in the arm, they left. The other two guys took off completely. Okay. And that's when sabre got in the car and I took off.

[Narrator]

Isaac also claimed that he only stabbed Charlie in the army, but the detectives obviously knew better. After all, they weren't retarded like isaac. They, of course, knew Charlie had been stabbed multiple times all over his body. This was a careless lie on Isaac's part and one that would make him look way more guilty.

[Isaac Pence]

So you stabbed a guy in the arm one time? I think it was twice.

[Narrator]

Twice?

[Isaac Pence]

Are you. Are you sure it wasn't more than that? Because there's more stab wounds than That I didn't think there was because I tried to just get him to go away. I was not trying to hurt him. Didn't want anything bad, bad to happen. I just want him to go away. Okay. Because there's 15 guys that are trying to jump me.

[Narrator]

Stabbing someone as a preventative measure. Yeah. Okay. After giving this bullshit version of the stabbing, Isaac went on to tell two more lies that would later come back to haunt him.

[Isaac Pence]

So did you go, Where'd you go after that? I went straight home. Okay. Your knife, you don't know exactly where you put it. They're looking for it in your car right now. I have no clue. You have no clue where it is? It's either in my car or it's sitting out at that property. Okay.

[Narrator]

Not only did Isaac's story contradict at least 10 other witness statements, but it didn't even align with Sabra's story. These two idiots couldn't even get their stories straight. He told detectives that after the stabbing, he went straight home, conveniently leaving out the stop at Justin's house. Naturally, detectives were curious about why he would lie about that. They planned to reach out to Justin and question him about Isaac's early morning visit to his house. But before they got the chance, Justin called them.

[Isaac Pence]

My friend showed up to my house like 3:30 this morning drunk, and he was flipping out, like saying that he got jumped at some party that he was at and he had to use a knife on someone. And I told him I didn't want him here. Like, I told him he needed to leave and turn himself in because we can't just make something like that go away. And he threw the knife over there.

[Narrator]

Justin told detectives that Isaac tossed a knife into a bush near Justin's driveway. Police then recovered the weapon, which was still spattered with Charlie's blood. In a follow up interview, Justin also revealed something else. Isaac had talked about returning to the cabin to do even more damage.

[Isaac Pence]

He did say stuff like that at your house? Kind of. It was more of like he just wanted to go back and beat up the other people that were trying to jump him. Okay. All right.

[Narrator]

As the investigation deepened, more of Isaac's lies unraveled. Detectives learned that after ditching the knife, he and Sabra made yet another stop. This time to visit Sabra's mother.

[Isaac Pence]

So they did end up coming to your place?

[Sabra Flagg]

Yes, they were there 15, 20. I don't even think 20 minutes. He's just talking about how he was going home to get what he needed and he was going out There and.

[Detective]

Finished it all off.

[Sabra Flagg]

Finish the rest of it off.

[Narrator]

By now, detectives had gathered multiple witness statements that pretty much proved both Isaac and Sabra had lied about what led up to the stabbing, the stabbing itself, and what they did afterwards. But the most damning evidence was still to come.

[Isaac Pence]

There is a camera on cabin six, is that correct? Yes, sir. Would it have been recording at all or doing any kind of recording last night? It records video, but not audio. You're not allowed to record audio. I need that video preserved, and I need to get that video here at our office as soon as I can get it.

[Narrator]

Detectives contacted the owner of the rental cabin, who turned over surveillance footage from a motion activated camera mounted on the front porch. Though it didn't capture the stabbing, it revealed the moments leading up to it. The footage showed what several witnesses had already described. Near the front porch of the cabin, Dalton's friends physically held Dalton away from Isaac to keep him from fighting. At the same time, a group surrounded Isaac, gesturing for him to leave. There's no audio, but the body language is clear. They weren't looking for a fight. Then Isaac threw a wild punch at the crowd. It missed. Someone shoved him back against a parked car. A few partygoers then grabbed Isaac and carried him towards his car, right out of the camera's view. See how that series of events actually makes sense, or are you also from Ohio? Yeah, I'm talking to you. This footage was pretty important. As it showed, the partygoers were not trying to hurt Isaac. They just wanted him to leave before things got worse. But this wasn't the only video that detectives recovered.

[Sabra Flagg]

Well, I flew off the porch so fast, and I ended up on the hood of my truck because I thought Isaac was going to hit my car.

[Detective]

Okay.

[Sabra Flagg]

So I started recording a video in the circumstance that he hit my car. And I captured the entire stabbing.

[Narrator]

Remember Amanda Chapman? She's the young woman who rushed to Charlie's side after the stabbing. She had the presence of mind to pull out her phone and hit record when the fight started. What you're about to hear comes from Amanda's cell phone. These are the final seconds just before the stabbing.

[Sabra Flagg]

My car. Watch it.

[Narrator]

Savages. Amanda's footage begins with Isaac halfway sitting in the driver's seat, his door cracked open and his one foot on the ground outside of his car. Several people are trying to close the door, but Isaac resists, pushing back against them. People are shouting, get the hell out of here and get in your car. No one is threatening Isaac. No one is swinging. They just Want him gone. Charlie Starner is among the voices. The video shows him bracing against the door, trying to keep Isaac in the car. Then, without warning, Isaac grabs a knife from the center console. He stands, slips partway out of the car and opens the blade. What follows is horrifying. In the audio, you can hear the metallic click of the knife being opened right before Isaac swings again and again, plunging the blade into Charlie's back neck and anywhere that Isaac can reach. Fair warning. This next bit of audio is not an easy listen.

[Detective]

Go.

[Narrator]

The video cuts off, but witnesses filled in the rest. After the stabbing, Charlie collapsed, his friends dragged him away while Isaac slammed the car door shut and sped off with Sabra, or whatever the fuck her name is. Later, more surveillance footage surfaced, this time from Justin's house. On it, Isaac can be seen tossing the knife into a bush before disappearing into the night. Isaac had already lied to detectives during his first interview. But now, armed with this overwhelming evidence, they questioned him a second time. And they had some devastating news.

[Detective]

What you did last night is fucked up. You killed somebody.

[Isaac Pence]

What?

[Detective]

He's dead and they died. Yeah, he died. At 8:31 this morning. The world lost a father. He leaves behind a nine and a half month old son named Jet. Okay. A mother and father lost their son. A girlfriend lost her boyfriend that she held compression on for several minutes waiting for a medic to get there to try and save his life. He died at Grant this morning. And you're facing murder charges.

[Narrator]

Roughly five and a half hours after the stabbing, Charlie Starner died at Grant Medical center in Columbus, Ohio. Despite the doctor's best efforts and emergency surgery, Charlie's heart gave out. With his death, the case shifted and got a whole lot more serious. Both Isaac Pence and Sabra Flagg were now facing murder charges and a lifetime behind bars. And Doug, here we have the Limu Emu in its natural habitat helping people customize their car insurance and and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.

[Isaac Pence]

Uh, Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us? Cut the camera.

[Narrator]

They see us. Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings Fairy Unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates excludes Massachusetts on April 23, 2023, 20 year old Isaac Pence and his fiance Sabra Flagg were taken into police custody after a night of violence at a cabin party that left 22 year old Charlie Starner dead. Isaac and Sabra lied repeatedly during their first interviews with detectives, hoping to cover their tracks. But when detectives brought them back for a second round, this time armed with overwhelming evidence, their lies began to unravel. They started with Sabra and quickly broke the tragic news that Charlie was dead.

[Detective]

So, mother to mother, you love your children, right? Okay. And you want to see your kids again someday, right? Because today, somebody's actions made it so. A mother lost her son. A father lost his son. Somebody lost their boyfriend. Okay? Several friends lost another friend who bled out at the hands of someone that you care about. And you know something?

[Sabra Flagg]

I really. I don't. You were there. Yeah, but I didn't. I didn't know he got stabbed.

[Detective]

I didn't.

[Sabra Flagg]

I didn't know that until after he.

[Detective]

We left.

[Sabra Flagg]

I swear.

[Detective]

If you're trying to protect this man, you're gonna go down as an accomplice for murder.

[Sabra Flagg]

I'm not. I promise.

[Detective]

You know something? And your allegiance to this man is gonna get you nowhere, because let me tell you, he's going to prison.

[Sabra Flagg]

I didn't. I didn't. I swear. And everything. I did not know he got stabbed until after this left. I'm not trying to pretend.

[Detective]

So what did he say after he stabbed him because you guys drove away together? He had to have said something.

[Sabra Flagg]

He didn't. He really didn't. He said. I don't even think he said anything. He just got in the car. I got in the car. I didn't know.

[Detective]

I.

[Sabra Flagg]

And I didn't know until 10 or so minutes later that he said, I think. I think I stabbed someone, or I stabbed someone. Something along the lines of that I didn't know, because if I would have known that, I wouldn't have left. I promise.

[Narrator]

Detectives confronted Sabra with the harsh reality of her situation, but she continued to resist coming clean. She maintained her efforts to downplay Isaac's behavior and minimize what he had done.

[Detective]

He died.

[Isaac Pence]

He's dead. He's gone.

[Sabra Flagg]

I know. Another bridesmaid.

[Isaac Pence]

So you don't know. Your honesty today is the. Is the paramount of what we need now. Okay? I spoke to your mother on the phone.

[Detective]

So did I. I'm not.

[Isaac Pence]

Your mom wants you to be honest. I'm not.

[Detective]

I don't.

[Isaac Pence]

You know he's violent against women, correct? You've been violent before against women, Correct?

[Detective]

He was violent against your own mama.

[Isaac Pence]

Talking about Isaac, he.

[Sabra Flagg]

So, yes, he did push my mom.

[Isaac Pence]

He did what?

[Sabra Flagg]

He pushed my mom.

[Isaac Pence]

Pushed your mom.

[Sabra Flagg]

Cause he went to court for it.

[Isaac Pence]

You told me earlier that he would never do that to a woman. Correct.

[Sabra Flagg]

I totally forgot about my mom. I'm so sorry.

[Detective]

It's your mom.

[Isaac Pence]

How can you forget about your mom? You're trying to protect him.

[Sabra Flagg]

I'm not.

[Detective]

Okay. I'm gonna tell you that I talked to his parents, and they said that he's an explosive, angry, violent drunk.

[Sabra Flagg]

He is. And he is. He's never been, like, aggressive to me. He just. He gets aggressive and he'll, like. He punches back when he does stupid things when he's drunk. I'll be the first to admit that.

[Narrator]

This was another lie. Out of all the detective interviews, Sabra was the last one, the very last person to admit that Isaac had a habit of becoming violent when he drank.

[Detective]

I'm going to tell you right now that my specialty is domestic violence, sexual assault, and crimes against children. And that living conditions that your children are in are crime. A deplorable, sickening crime. I'm 35 years old, and I could barely breathe in that house. I went to where you sleep. Like, do you think that this is normal? That this is an okay situation? Is this what you want your babies growing up in?

[Sabra Flagg]

Definitely not. We were trying to save up for an apartment or a house. We were just trying to find some. Somewhere to go on our own, because we don't. I. I mean, I.

[Detective]

They blame the mess on Isaac and you. There's dog feces everywhere. They're. The ammonia in that house is horrible. We've made a referral to have your children. Emergency room. I'm gonna tell you that the living conditions, the trash, the bugs, the cobwebs, the lack of running water, that's. It's not normal. Your babies are gonna get sick. And if you care anything about your babies, take to heart what Lieutenant McKnight is telling you.

[Isaac Pence]

I'm gonna tell you.

[Detective]

You know how I know you're full of shit? You went to your mom's. You went to Justin's, all before you went back to the house. I talked to your mom.

[Sabra Flagg]

I did go to my mom's. I totally forgot. I am so sorry.

[Detective]

Are you forgetting because you were drunk? Are you forgetting because you were high? No.

[Isaac Pence]

She's forgetting because she doesn't want to tell us the truth.

[Narrator]

Sabra was smacked with more and more evidence that exposed her bullshit, and it just kept coming.

[Detective]

You told your mom you were going to come back to the house. As a matter of fact, you said you were going to stop by Isaac's house and you guys were coming back to the cabin because you were gonna get your shit.

[Sabra Flagg]

I don't.

[Detective]

You texted. You texted Horizon. I Saw the messages. You said, I need my purse, I need my shoes, I need my glasses. If I don't get those things back, somebody. I'm calling the cops. Those were your priorities, not. Hey, my man stabbed somebody. How's that kid's condition?

[Isaac Pence]

Not once today have you asked about how he was.

[Sabra Flagg]

I hit him.

[Detective]

Not one time.

[Isaac Pence]

You have no care or concern for him?

[Detective]

Oh, did you know that he has a 10 month old son? I didn't. Named Jet.

[Sabra Flagg]

I honestly had no clue.

[Detective]

So now you left another baby without a parent. Just like your kids are gonna be left without their parents. Cause you guys are gonna go sit in prison for the next 25 years to life for murder.

[Narrator]

When faced with a lengthy prison sentence, the only thing these idiots understand. It seemed like the detectives had finally broken through to Sabra and she agreed to tell the full truth. At least that's what she claimed.

[Isaac Pence]

It's time to stop lying and tell us the truth. Cause you're leaving stuff out, trying to sugarcoat it. All we're asking for you to do is the truth. The only thing you have is your word, and you're not telling us the whole truth right now.

[Sabra Flagg]

Okay, I'll start. I promise.

[Isaac Pence]

What did you see about the stabbing?

[Sabra Flagg]

I didn't see. And I'm being completely truthful on everything. I didn't see anyone get stabbed. I didn't see anyone fall to the floor. I didn't see anything.

[Narrator]

When someone says they're being completely truthful, that's a sure sign they're not. Sabra continued to insist that she hadn't witnessed the stabbing, and the cell phone footage somewhat supports her claim. Though the video is dark and grainy, it seems to show Sabra distracted, focused on something else and not looking in Isaac's direction when he attacked Charlie. It's possible she didn't realize a stabbing had taken place until after they fled the scene. That said, there is a moment just before the stabbing where Sabre reaches into the center console, and it looks as though she may be handing something to Isaac. This raised the question, did Sabra provide the murder weapon? Unfortunately, the view of the center console is obstructed, so we're not likely to get an answer to that question. In truth, once Sabra agreed to be completely honest, her story didn't change very much. The biggest shift was in how she talked about Isaac. Faced with a looming threat of prison time, she suddenly seemed far more willing to throw him under the bus.

[Sabra Flagg]

Me and Brie go downstairs. We were wanting to go in the hot tub. You and I was like, well, I don't know if Isaac will freak out or not, because he was. He's very. You know, he doesn't like if I'm, like, in a bathing suit around a bunch of guys. He's very jealous.

[Detective]

So controlling.

[Sabra Flagg]

Yeah. Then all of a sudden, I hear people arguing constantly. And I'm like, what the heck is going on? So we all run back into the house, and it's like. It's a big huddle with people.

[Detective]

I'm trying to figure out who.

[Sabra Flagg]

Who was arguing. And then I realized it was Isaac. I didn't know who he was arguing with. They were, like, trying to push him out. And I was like, okay, let's just go. Like, let's just go. And he was. He's like, no, just shut the up. I'm sitting here arguing with people. He started cussing other people out. I'm just like, come on, let's go. And I was crying. I was like, just please, let's go.

[Detective]

And he was like, no. This.

[Narrator]

That everyone, unlike her first telling Sabra now admitted that Isaac had been the aggressor at the party. Surprise, surprise. This version of events was far closer to the truth.

[Detective]

Did he tell you where he stabbed him?

[Sabra Flagg]

No. He said that he thought he stabbed him in the arm. That's what he said. And I was like, okay. Like, did you stab him anywhere else? I don't think so.

[Detective]

Do you know that this gentleman was stabbed six times?

[Sabra Flagg]

I did not know that.

[Detective]

He was stabbed in the jaw, right here in the side of his neck, around his back, twice in his chest, and another one in between his head and his neck.

[Isaac Pence]

Oh, my God.

[Sabra Flagg]

He shouldn't have stabbed anybody. It should have been a calm, cool, collected night. This was one night that me and him didn't have any kids.

[Detective]

I mean, I know that you're not. You guys hardly ever have your kids. Cause Ginger told me she's raising your kids. You guys go and do however you want whenever you want. She's stuck with these kids. She's raised all of her own.

[Sabra Flagg]

I know.

[Detective]

You know, you guys are going out and drinking and living your lives up like you don't have kids.

[Sabra Flagg]

And this made me realize I need to step up and be a better mom.

[Detective]

I mean, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you're not gonna get the opportunity for a long, long time. Not only is the state gonna have custody of your children, you're going to jail today.

[Sabra Flagg]

Am I really?

[Detective]

Yes.

[Sabra Flagg]

Or what?

[Isaac Pence]

For not telling us the full truth.

[Detective]

I didn't if I have my way, you're going as an accomplice to murder.

[Narrator]

With our updated story on record, this dumb bitch was handcuffed and taken to jail. Next to face off with detectives was her fiance, Isaac Pence.

[Detective]

You were at a house party? Kind of walk me through the events of the evening.

[Isaac Pence]

Well, throughout the night, it was all completely fine until everyone got way too drunk. I was standing in the hallway and someone got in my face, so I pushed them out of the way. And then that's when about 15 of them all wanted to come outside and try and jump me.

[Detective]

And who got in your face?

[Isaac Pence]

I'm not even sure who it was.

[Detective]

Okay, who did you push out of the way?

[Isaac Pence]

I pushed that person out of the way and they fell into Horizon. They tried to set that push to Horizon because as soon as she got touched, everyone just flipped because, oh, he just pushed her.

[Detective]

Oh, whoa, whoa.

[Isaac Pence]

And started running at me.

[Narrator]

At this point, Isaac was completely unaware of the mountain of evidence that detectives had gathered against him. And he didn't know that Charlie Starner had died. So naturally, Isaac stuck to his lies.

[Isaac Pence]

After I get in my car, they all start trying to rip my door open. And once they got the door open, I just grabbed knife real quick. I was like, go, get away. And they weren't listening. So I went and I tried to put him in the arm.

[Detective]

Okay, you stab him once in the arm and what happens after that?

[Isaac Pence]

He kept coming, so I stabbed him again.

[Detective]

So you stab him a second time and what happens?

[Isaac Pence]

Pretty sure that he left. I kind of blacked out after I got him the second time because I stabbed him on some point. Holy shit. And then I just kind of blacked out. I think I just done twice and then left.

[Narrator]

Conveniently, Isaac slipped into the tired excuse of blacking out. Funny how sharp his memory had stayed right up until the point where he stabbed someone to death.

[Detective]

Take off from there and where do you go?

[Isaac Pence]

Oh, thank you. Try that again. No. Okay. So we went to Justin's house for a second. Okay. Then from Justin's house, went to her mom's house. Then we went home.

[Detective]

So I'm gonna tell you, the only thing you have left in this world is your integrity. You know what integrity is?

[Narrator]

Do you know what integrity is? I love that.

[Detective]

Yeah. Your honesty. And I'm gonna tell you that I have found about 40 loopholes already in your story. The last thing I want is your bullshit. Okay?

[Isaac Pence]

Okay.

[Detective]

What you did last night is fucked up. You killed somebody.

[Isaac Pence]

What?

[Detective]

He's dead.

[Isaac Pence]

And I Died?

[Detective]

Yeah, he died at 8:31 this morning. The world lost a father. He leaves behind a nine and a half month old son named Jet. Okay. A mother and father lost their son. A girlfriend lost her boyfriend that she held compression on for several minutes waiting for him medic to get there to try and save his life. He died at Grant this morning. And you're facing murder charges. I admit that he did. Because you didn't stab him twice. You stabbed him multiple times. Way more than twice. I've talked to your mom. I know you are a very violent, explosive person. I know you drink almost every weekend. You left her in the care and custody of your two children, Draco and Wh. And Horse. Thirteen months and four months old. I've been inside your bedroom. I've been inside your car. I've had a very deep conversation with your girlfriend, your girlfriend's mother and everyone that was at that cabin. You get one shot at this with me, and that's it. You want to start over? Let's go.

[Narrator]

Detectives hit Isaac with the same reality check they'd given to Sabra. Afterwards, he appeared slightly more willing to tell the truth. But much like Sabra, he couldn't stop trying to minimize his actions.

[Detective]

How much did you drink last night?

[Isaac Pence]

I think I drank a 12 pack of Miller. I took a couple shots of Hennessy and a bottle of Green. It's like green Sour apple snobs.

[Detective]

You drank a lot of alcohol knowing that you have an explosive personality when you're drunk. And if I tell you that I have have literally witness statements, written witness statements of you two handed pushing Horizon?

[Isaac Pence]

That's what they're trying to say.

[Detective]

Okay, and you're telling me that that's not true?

[Isaac Pence]

I don't think that I pushed her.

[Detective]

Is it possible that you could have pushed her and you blacked out? Given the amount, the copious amounts of alcohol you drank, I could have, but.

[Isaac Pence]

I really, I do not believe that I did.

[Detective]

Do you think it's okay to put your hands on a female? No. Never? No.

[Isaac Pence]

I have six sisters. Okay.

[Detective]

Do you think it'd be okay for your sons to do the same? No. Would you like it if they'll unshove Sakura now?

[Narrator]

I remind you, this is the same guy that had just recently gotten out of jail for assaulting his baby mom's mother, his children's grandmother. So take that with a grain of something. Isaac claimed that he didn't or couldn't recall shoving Dalton's girlfriend to the ground, which was the act that ignited the whole Night's chaos. Unfortunately for him, multiple witnesses, including Dalton's girlfriend, said that he did.

[Detective]

He pushed you onto the ground inside the cabin?

[Sabra Flagg]

Yes, right by the door.

[Detective]

Two open hands.

[Sabra Flagg]

How did he literally shove me.

[Detective]

Okay, by your chest or.

[Sabra Flagg]

Yeah, like my shoulders and chest right here.

[Narrator]

After Isaac shoved Horizon, Dalton understandably exploded with anger. And from there, the night spiraled out of control.

[Detective]

Dalton comes to you and says, what.

[Isaac Pence]

He was just freaking out that he was gonna beat my ass and everything. And then once he did that, everyone else jumped in, and There was about five, 10 people, and we went outside and they were all trying to hit me.

[Detective]

What if I tell you that I have surveillance video of them just saying it's time to leave, it's time to leave?

[Isaac Pence]

No, because when we went. Cuz that's where I got all this is where they're hitting me.

[Detective]

Well, a scuffle ensues. But they're trying to push you out of the cabin, and Sabra's telling you it's time to go.

[Isaac Pence]

Oh, I don't remember it.

[Detective]

Okay.

[Narrator]

Once again, Isaac's selective memory failed him. But the evidence was clear. Nobody at the party wanted more violence. Witness after witness confirmed that everyone simply wanted Isaac to leave in the house.

[Isaac Pence]

I was trying to, like, stop them from fighting and screaming at each other, and we were just trying to get him to leave. Isaac, like, everybody was just telling that kid to leave.

[Narrator]

Surveillance footage from the cabin backed up the witness statements showing several people dragged Isaac toward his car, trying to get him away from the situation.

[Detective]

And when you get in your car, what happens?

[Isaac Pence]

That's right. When you grab the knife, he's pulling on the door, I think I'll tell.

[Detective]

You that I have a footprint that tells me they were trying to close the door. Does this. Does this sound familiar? Now you're trying to get back out of the car. You have one foot out, or you're trying to push open the door, and somebody takes a foot and closes the door. I have a footprint to corroborate that and a dent in the side of your equinox that says they were trying to get you back in the car.

[Isaac Pence]

Okay.

[Detective]

Do you remember any of that?

[Isaac Pence]

No.

[Detective]

At what point do you reach for the knife?

[Isaac Pence]

I'm not completely sure.

[Detective]

Okay, and you, what happens when you grab this knife?

[Isaac Pence]

I think I just start stabbing him.

[Detective]

How many times do you think you stabbed him? I don't know. Okay, did you say anything as you were stabbing him?

[Isaac Pence]

I couldn't tell you.

[Detective]

Did you say anything after you stabbed him?

[Isaac Pence]

I think I just left.

[Narrator]

Not only did the physical evidence contradict Isaac's claims that he was being attacked, but Amanda Chapman's cell phone video clearly showed the exact opposite. People were pushing on Isaac's car door, trying to shut it. They weren't trying to pull him out. Isaac was the only one looking for a fight, shoving back and trying to force his way out of the car. Tragically, he succeeded with a knife in his hand.

[Detective]

Cause what was your next move when you left that cabin?

[Isaac Pence]

Went to my buddy's house.

[Detective]

And what did you say when you got there?

[Isaac Pence]

I don't know.

[Detective]

What if I tell you that I have you on surveillance at his house, and I have all the camera footage, and you literally look at Justin and say, I just fucking stabbed this guy? That ring a bell? Okay. What do you do with the weapon when you're there? Because certainly it wasn't in the car or at the scene. Like you told the detectives, you knew exactly where the murder weapon was the whole time, but you told us the knife is definitely in the car. It's definitely at the scene. The whole time. You sat here knowing that we were on a wild goose hunt. You just didn't think we'd find a knife, did you? No knife, no crime. Is that what you were hoping for?

[Narrator]

The fact that Isaac hid the murder weapon became a key piece of the case. It showed a clear consciousness of guilt. Isaac could claim memory loss all he wanted, but his actions and the lies he told afterwards spoke volumes.

[Isaac Pence]

I either threw it in the bush or I threw it.

[Detective]

Why would you throw it?

[Isaac Pence]

I don't know.

[Detective]

Okay. And where's Sabra?

[Isaac Pence]

She just sit in the car? I think she's just watching Tiktoks on her phone.

[Detective]

Watching Tiktoks on her phone, knowing her boyfriend just stabbed somebody. It's pretty normal behavior, right? I mean, hey, you went home and took a nap like it was just another day in the park for you, right? I wouldn't be able to sleep if I stab somebody.

[Isaac Pence]

I was too drunk. I didn't really remember it when I got home.

[Detective]

But not too drunk to drive. Not too drunk to dispose of the murder weapon. Not too drunk to try and cover up your tracks.

[Narrator]

Surveillance footage outside Justin's home captured Isaac ditching knife in some nearby bushes. Interestingly, Sabra was inside using the restroom when he did this. Meaning, once again, it's very possible Sabra didn't know Isaac had hidden the weapon. This was another lucky break for her. As for Isaac, he wasn't ready for the night to end. After Disposing of the knife. He planned to return to the cabin, this time armed with a gun.

[Isaac Pence]

And then I remember going home. Me and my stepdad got into it.

[Detective]

What'd you guys get into it about?

[Isaac Pence]

I think I was trying to get into the gun safe.

[Detective]

Why were you trying to get in the gun safe?

[Isaac Pence]

I think to get back there.

[Detective]

And do what? No. Finish the deal. No. Why else would you do thing?

[Isaac Pence]

It was just to scare them because they wouldn't jump me.

[Detective]

So you went home and you're rattling the gun safe, trying to get into it.

[Isaac Pence]

Took a hammer to it.

[Detective]

You took a hammer to the gun safe? Okay, and what happens?

[Isaac Pence]

My stepdad tried to grab me and was telling me, hey, stop, stop, stop. And we ended up getting in a fight over it.

[Detective]

Did you punch him in the face? He blacked his left eye. You know about that? You know that he just had a heart attack? And he's raising your kids again? Stabbing somebody wasn't enough?

[Sabra Flagg]

Today?

[Detective]

You went home and assaulted an old man on top of all the things you could have done.

[Narrator]

Finally, after stabbing Charlie, hiding the evidence, and assaulting his stepfather, this drunk and dangerous ass clown passed out on his own bed. He woke later that morning to the sound of police knocking at his door.

[Detective]

So here's the problem with this whole thing, is that not one time today have you or Sabra asked how that kid is. Right?

[Isaac Pence]

I was thinking about it. I just didn't want to ask.

[Detective]

Why not?

[Isaac Pence]

I didn't want to hear it. Did you have any inclination? I have a feeling.

[Detective]

Do you know his name was Charlie? Yeah. Charlie was just some innocent guy at that party. You never met Charlie before that, did you? You grabbed Charlie by the neck. And you didn't stab Charlie two times? Stabbed Charlie six times, the side of his neck. Right here on his face. Twice in his side, once in his back. And somewhere in between his head and his neck, you left. You left Charlie to lay there and bleed out on the ground. Charlie didn't die right away. But Charlie, he coded out in a trauma bay. He made it in an airplane to a hospital in Columbus. Made it through the surgery. And then he could put his heartbeat out. And you know what? His kid isn't the only one left without a dad. Because Draco and Waylon aren't gonna have their dad either. They're not gonna have their mom either. She went to jail today.

[Isaac Pence]

What's she gonna do?

[Detective]

Complicity to murder. Because she knew it. She didn't do anything about it.

[Narrator]

Isaac and Sabra were charged and booked into jail. Initially, both faced murder charges, but eventually Sabra's charges were downgraded.

[Detective]

According to court documents, Isaac Pence has been arrested and charged with murder. His girlfriend, Sabra Flagg, is accused of leaving the scene with him and lying to detectives about what happened. She's charged with with obstructing justice. Pence and Flagg were in court this morning and both pled not guilty. The judge is keeping them Both on a $1 million bond each.

[Narrator]

Sabra later accepted a plea deal. She served just six months in prison for obstructing justice. And as far as anyone knows, she's now a free woman. As for Isaac, he took his case to trial and he lost. He was convicted of murder and a law long list of related charges. His sentence was 18 years to life. In my humble and ultimately meaningless opinion, that's far too lenient. Isaac could be a relatively young man if he walks out of prison one day. This time as a felon and a convicted murderer. What happens next time he picks up a drink? Whose life will he destroy then? And what judge will completely skirt responsibility for letting him out? As frustrating as Isaac's sentence is, there is another detail that makes this case even harder to stomach. Isaac and Charlie didn't even know each other. They were complete strangers. Charlie died because he happened to be standing in the wrong place at the wrong time, at the hands of a violent man that he had never met. That's how easy it is, folks. That's how quickly it can all end.

[Detective]

And how did Charlie get involved in this hole?

[Sabra Flagg]

That's. He was literally just standing right there. As far as I know, he was standing right there by the porch.

[Detective]

And so Charlie and him had no beef prior to this?

[Sabra Flagg]

No. I don't even think think they talked.

[Detective]

Okay, so he just kind of was the unlucky victim in all of this.

[Narrator]

Charlie Starner was just 22 years old. He was a young father, a soon to be husband, and by every account, a good man who loved his family and friends fiercely. His future was full of promise. But all of a sudden, it was stolen in an instant. When he tried to do what good people so often do, he stepped in, hoping to calm a situation before it got worse. Charlie wasn't reckless. He wasn't looking for a fight. He was trying to protect, and he was trying to help. And that one moment of courage cost him everything. The unfortunate truth is that sometimes the safest choice and the smartest way to protect yourself is. Is to step back when danger bares its teeth. But this case isn't a warning against being brave or helpful, of being a Good Samaritan. It's simply a brutal reminder that evil doesn't need a reason to destroy what's good. And you never know what someone else is capable of or how quickly a night of drinking and partying can spiral into something deadly. Sometimes all it takes is being in the wrong place, facing the wrong person at the wrong time. Sa you know that time when you're done recording an episode of Sword and Scale? It's fresh off the presses, you're ready to put it out, but you just know. You just know deep down inside that some fat monstrosity with a septum ring and clown hair is going to accuse you of being a misogynist simply because you called a dumb bitch dumb. Well, you see here. Maybe. Maybe I am a misogynist. Maybe I am. Maybe. If being a feminist means you side with someone just because they have a pair of tits like you do, despite not having a brain or, I don't know. Morals means we gotta stick together, girls. Just remember this little lesson we've hammered into your brain over and over and over again. Beware of the company you keep. If you side with idiots with loose morals, then maybe that's exactly who you are, too. But who am I other than just a dumb male? Kind of like the other idiot in this story, which I don't side with at all because I'm not a maleist or whatever they're called. Because having a brain is more important than having a dick. See how that works? Nah. You from Ohio, too? Here we have the Limu Emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug Limu.

[Sabra Flagg]

Is that guy with the binoculars watching us?

[Detective]

Us?

[Isaac Pence]

Cut the camera.

[Narrator]

They see us. Only pay for what you need@liberty mutual.com Liberty.

[Detective]

Liberty. Liberty. Liberty Savings.

[Narrator]

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