Episode 333

Summary

Podcast Summary: Sword and Scale Episode 333 – “The Log That Killed Victoria Schaefer”

Release Date: January 5, 2026
Host: Mike Boudet

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Overview of Main Theme

This episode uncovers the tragic and senseless killing of Victoria Schaefer, a beloved photographer, wife, and mother, whose life ended when a 75-pound log was thrown from a cliff at Ohio’s Hocking Hills State Park on Labor Day 2019. Initially ruled an accident, the incident soon spiraled into a murder investigation, unveiling the mistakes and evasion of two teenage boys. Using 911 calls, interviews, and interrogation footage, the episode explores not only the crime but also the struggle to find the truth amid conflicting stories, teenage bravado, and family grief.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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The Incident: A Day in Hocking Hills State Park

• [03:23 – 04:21]
  • Labor Day 2019, Victoria was leading a senior class photoshoot at Hocking Hills.
  • Tragedy strikes as a massive log falls from a cliff, crushing her head and chest, killing her instantly.
  • Immediate chaos and distress are captured in chilling 911 calls from the traumatized teenagers who witnessed the event.

Notable Quote:
“We decided to go on a hike...started to hear a bunch of cracking tree branches...I watched as a seven foot log falls from the sky and strikes Mrs. Schaefer in the head. My immediate reaction was to bend down to help her.” – Unnamed Student [05:00]

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Victim Profile: Victoria Schaefer

• [05:39 – 07:09]
  • Victoria was a 46-year-old photographer, described as warm, professional, and beloved by family and community.
  • She was the mother of four, and known for her ability to capture authentic joy in her subjects.

Notable Quote:
“Victoria Schaefer was one of the most kind-hearted, amazing people I have ever met... How could you when you were around her, she always knew how to make you smile just the way she wanted to to get the perfect picture.” – Friend/Colleague [06:48]

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The Investigation: From Accident to Homicide

• [09:05 – 09:52]
  • Initial belief: a tragic act of nature; investigators soon determine the log had to have been deliberately thrown.
  • Agencies involved: Hocking County Sheriff’s Office and Ohio Department of Natural Resources.

Notable Quote:
“Victoria’s death wasn’t a freak accident... All the evidence indicated that someone had moved the log and thrown it over the edge... This news not only stunned the community, but it also left Victoria’s family completely devastated.” – Mike Boudet [09:52]

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Early (False) Suspect: The Isaiah Singri Lead

• [10:45 – 19:52]
  • A tip from Isaiah’s mother (“he thought it was dope that he killed someone”) brings him under suspicion.
  • After intense questioning, investigators confirm Isaiah and his friends weren’t at the park on Labor Day.
  • Investigators are “back to square one.”

Notable Quotes:
“They said that something fell off and hit some lady and killed her. ...I wasn’t even there Monday.” – Isaiah Singri [18:35, 19:08]

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The Breakthrough: A Tip Leads to Two Teens

• [21:21 – 22:12]
  • A mother calls police: her daughter’s friend’s ex-boyfriend, Jordan Buckley (16), allegedly confessed to causing the death with another boy ("Jaden").
  • Investigators confirm: Jordan and his friend were at the park that day; their messages are incriminating.

Notable Quote:
“Victoria’s death wasn’t the result of a random accident or a planned attack. Her death was caused by two teenage boys who had made one very reckless and irreversible decision.” – Mike Boudet [22:12]

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The Interrogations: Lies, Pacts, and Shifting Stories

Jordan Buckley:

• [27:04 – 40:15]
  • Initially tries to downplay involvement (“nothing really happened”), but then admits he and Jaden moved the log.
  • Admits to making a pact with Jaden to keep quiet.
  • Tries to blame Jaden, says at one point “I already caught a body at the age of 16,” reflecting twisted bragging.
  • When pressed, story shifts: “I just helped move it, but I didn’t throw it.”

Notable Quotes:
“I already caught a body at the age of 16.” – (Jordan recounting what Jaden said) [35:33]
“Once again, Jordan’s story changed. He still insisted he wasn’t the one who threw the log, but he finally admitted to moving it.” – Mike Boudet [38:01]

Female Witnesses (AJ and Miranda):

• [40:35 – 44:32]
  • Both describe the boys moving and dropping the log, attempting to minimize the intent.
  • Their accounts contradict: AJ claims Jordan “let go” of the log; Miranda says Jaden “pushed” it off.
  • Investigators note the physical impossibility: the log could not have “rolled” off; substantial force was needed.

Investigators’ Frustration:

• [44:48 – 46:03]
  • Detectives openly voice disbelief at the discrepancies: “Your story and Miranda’s have one major flawed principle...I just can’t figure out for the life of me why...”

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Jaden Churches’ Interrogation and Parental Involvement

• [51:27 – 63:53]
  • Jaden’s interview is marked by his mother’s intense involvement and denial.
  • Both he and Jordan point fingers at each other.
  • Jaden’s mother clashes with investigators, fiercely defending her son and objecting to his arrest and handcuffing.

Notable Quotes:
“He’s been paying cuffs or something on him. Oh my perfect. Gosh, what a great way to start off your life when you’re 17. Can’t you just like walk him out there? He’s not a criminal.” – Jaden’s Mother [63:28]

Contrast with Jordan’s Mother:

• [64:16 – 65:03]
  • Jordan’s mom emphasizes personal responsibility:
    “I mean, if he’s in the wrong, he knows that I’ve taught my kids that. That they take the punishment.” – Jordan’s Mother [64:53]

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The Reenactment and “Truth”

• [65:52 – 70:19]
  • Jordan’s walkthrough at the scene shows ongoing denial and attempts to minimize his role.
  • Investigators continue to challenge the “it just rolled” narrative, noting that the log’s trajectory required significant force—almost certainly both boys’ effort.

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Motives, Lies, and Obstruction

• [71:03 – 72:08]
  • Miranda, one of the witnesses, may have protected herself (fearing statutory charges from a prior relationship with Jordan) by withholding the full truth.
  • Miranda is ultimately charged with obstruction and given a suspended 90-day sentence for lying to investigators.

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Legal Resolution: Justice and Compassion

• [72:08 – 79:19]
  • Both Jaden and Jordan are charged as adults with murder, involuntary manslaughter, and reckless homicide.
  • Both accept plea deals, admitting to involuntary manslaughter in exchange for reduced charges and their case being moved to juvenile court.
  • Each is sentenced to three years in juvenile detention.

Courtroom Quotes:

Jordan Buckley’s Apology [73:11]:
“I understand that my actions that day caused your family’s life to change. My hope from all this is to use this trauma to learn and to live my life in a way that will honor Ms. Schaefer.”

Family Impact Statement [75:16]:
“Victoria’s death was so tragic, so devastating, and so senseless, it’s unimaginable…The next night, she was gone.” – Victoria’s Husband

Forgiveness Extended [76:20]:
“What ultimately helped us make the decision to offer this plea deal was that Victoria was a very compassionate person. We all felt that she would have wanted to give them a second chance.” – Family member

Judge’s Words [78:24]: “You’re getting a second chance here because they are forgiving. You understand that, correct?...that’s not an option that Mrs. Schaefer had.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [05:39] “Victoria Shaefer was one of the most kind-hearted, amazing people...She never let anyone show their fake smile...”
• [09:52] “...this wasn’t a freak accident...someone had moved the log and thrown it.”
• [35:33] “I already caught a body at the age of 16.”
• [64:36] “I’ve taught you to do right. Jordan. A woman lost her life, and you knew it. Always coming first is what you do.”
• [75:16] “The next night, she was gone.”
• [77:11] “I need to know that you will do your very best to turn your life around...Let the story of your life proclaim to all that you understood the gravity of your actions.”
• [78:24] “You’re getting a second chance here because they are forgiving. You understand that, correct?...that’s not an option that Mrs. Schaefer had.”

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Important Timestamps

• 03:23 – The day and location of the tragedy
• 05:39 – Recollections of the event by witnesses
• 09:52 – Discovery of homicide, not accident
• 19:08–19:52 – Clearing the initial false suspect (Isaiah)
• 22:12, 27:04 – Identifying the real teenage suspects
• 33:47–36:18 – Secret pact between the boys, disturbing bravado
• 43:31–45:18 – Conflicting accounts from key witnesses
• 51:27–63:53 – Jaden’s interrogation and arrest
• 65:52–70:19 – On-scene walkthrough and truth-seeking
• 72:08 – Legal resolution, charges, and plea deals
• 73:11–77:11 – Apologies, family and victim impact statements
• 78:24 – Judge’s sentencing and statements

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Episode Flow & Tone

• Language: Blunt, often darkly humorous, and direct in the style of Mike Boudet and Sword and Scale.
• Atmosphere: Unflinching look at a senseless crime, with focus on flawed people, impossible situations, and the limits of the legal system.
• Emotion: Mix of grief, frustration, incredulity, and, ultimately, a sense of tragic compassion.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode forces listeners to confront the haunting randomness of loss and the chaos that ensues when the truth is tangled in self-preservation and adolescent misjudgment. The murder of Victoria Schaefer, while possibly unintentional, was a result of reckless teenage behavior and the subsequent web of lies, denials, and blame-shifting. In the end, Victoria’s family’s compassion allowed for mercy, but the lingering dissatisfaction and unanswered questions underscore the messy, imperfect reality of justice.

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“Both teenagers were legally responsible...a log that came crashing down with enough force to shatter a skull and take Victoria Shaffer’s life in an instant. And both were held accountable in a way that reflected the wishes of Victoria’s family. So what else is there to do? ...sometimes that’s the only justice there is. And sometimes, you know, that’s just life.”
– Mike Boudet, closing remarks [79:19]

Transcript

[Mike Boudet]

Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

When you get the lie detector test set up for him, then you'll just have to contact me.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Jaden's gonna be placed under arrest.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

No, he said he can't be. He's 16 years old. Where are you think you're gonna take him?

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Juvenile detention?

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

No.

[Mike Boudet]

Didn't think we'd be back so soon, did ya? Always so pessimistic. We so negative, this audience. I don't know what's wrong with you people. Anyway, I hope you had a good holiday season. We have some big news, so don't skip ahead just yet.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

We.

[Mike Boudet]

We got something to tell you and I think you're gonna like it. Or maybe you won't. Who knows? You guys always complain about everything, so it's hard to tell. It's really a losing battle sometimes with you such misanthropes. No. Anyway, this is season 13, episode 333 of Sword and Scale, a show that reveals that the worst monsters are real. All right, here's what we got for you. Sword and Scale television is now available on YouTube. That's right, it's on YouTube. You can get it for just 10 bucks a month on YouTube. Now here's the thing. A lot of people are not very technologically inclined. So just understand it's a separate service, a separate subscription on a separate platform. It's not connected to our website anyway. So it's like a standalone kind of thing over there on YouTube. If you just want to see the video and you don't like the podcast for whatever reason, it's available as a standalone video service. And you can add audio for another 10 bucks on top of it on YouTube. So there you go. That's what we got for you. Hope you like them.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

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[Mike Boudet]

Monday, September 2, 2019, was Labor Day. It was a day that many people circled on their calendars. The unofficial end of summer. One last chance to soak up the sunshine. To hike and to explore in southeastern Ohio. There's no better place for that than Hocking Hill State park. With over 25 miles of hiking trails, massive rock formations, explorable caves, and towering waterfalls, this park is the perfect place to get lost in nature. For many, it's like a sanctuary. But On Labor Day 2019, it became something else entirely.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

911, where is your emergency?

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Okay, well, Hawking Hills and huge tree.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Bitch.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Not all this, lady. Okay, Take a breath.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

You're at Old Man's Cave.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Yes. Okay. And what happened?

[Interviewer or Investigator]

I threw my phone.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Huh? I. You're safe.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Slow down.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

I can't understand you. What happened? A tree branch fell on her. A tree branch fell on someone? Yes.

[Mike Boudet]

Okay.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Okay.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Are you with her?

[Mike Boudet]

That afternoon, The Hocking County 911 dispatch center lit up with panicked phone calls, all coming from teenagers. They said a log had fallen from the cliffs at the state park and hit a woman hard in the head.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

I remember being in the park and just making goofy memories. And we decided to go on a hike to one of the other places and we ended up getting lost. We were talking about running marathons and just laughing and making good memories when we started to hear a bunch of cracking tree branches and a large cracking sound, almost as if a tree had fallen. As I heard this sound, I turned around myself and Bella only being two steps away from her, and I watched as a seven foot log falls from the sky and strikes Mrs. Schaefer in the head. My immediate reaction was to bend down to help her.

[Mike Boudet]

The woman hit by the log was a 46 year old professional photographer. She was also a beloved wife, daughter and mother of four children. Her name was Victoria Schaefer.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Victoria managed to complete her undergraduate schooling and later after her marriage, she graduated with a master's degree. One of Victoria's most fortunate life decisions was to meet and eventually marry someone she met while we were on a family vacation to Maine. Fritz Schaefer. While I had been notoriously hard on all her previous boyfriends, this one appeared to me to show promise and he definitely loved her. We were blessed over the next several years with four wonderful grandchildren who have.

[Mike Boudet]

Made us extremely proud as a photographer. One of Victoria's regular gigs was taking portraits for local high school students.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

I think she did 15 weddings, 90 or so high school seniors. She owned sports and school photography, business that she was building up and many other events.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Victoria Schaefer was one of the most kind hearted, amazing people I have ever met. She never let anyone show their fake smile. How could you when you were around her, she always knew how to make you smile just the way she wanted to to get the perfect picture. And it wasn't just because she was taking your picture. You were genuinely happy to be around her.

[Mike Boudet]

On Labor Day of 2019, Victoria had gone to Hocking Hills State park with a group of high school seniors. They had just finished a photo shoot and were walking towards the parking lot to leave when tragedy struck the other seniors.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

And I can tell you it started with a crack of what sounded like tree branches falling down on us which had me frantically looking around until my eyes had met a huge log hitting the side of the Schaefer's head bringing her to the ground instantly. And I will say this image is in my nightmares and in my mind forever. For a slight second I was in shock before then jumping to see if she was alright, but she was just lying there lifeless. I tried calling out her name hoping to get a response, but there wasn't one. At this point we still had hope, just thinking she was unconscious. But in the back of our minds.

[Mike Boudet]

We all knew from the teenager's perspective a 6 foot long 75 pound log had seemingly fallen from the sky. It came down with crushing force landing directly on Victoria, killing her instantly.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

The group was following along this trail back to the parking lot when out of nowhere a 70 plus pound log came crashing down from above, crushing the photographer, the students and other people nearby called 911. But her injuries were far too severe. She had a 12 inch long gash on the top of her head, 3 inches wide. It broke her spine in two places.

[Mike Boudet]

Crushed her chest cavity and broke six ribs along with multiple other internal and external injuries. Since this tragedy had taken place at a state park, two agencies were responsible for figuring out what happened. Victoria's death was investigated by the Hocking County Sheriff's Office and Ohio's Department of Natural Resources.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

We're right above the top of Old Man's Cave is what I know this as. On top of here to my left is there's a walkway where the tunnel would be located. In front of us is where the tree stump was located. And we'll be walking, doing a walk through here. And what we believe is here located in this section is where the approximately six foot log was located at which you can still kind of see where the log was located with discoloration where it's been there for quite some time. From there it was carried over approximately about where Nicole and Rose is at, where they're getting ready to go off the side. They're going to do a exact measurement from the edge down to where the female deceased was found.

[Mike Boudet]

Investigators quickly determined that Victoria's death wasn't a freak accident. This wasn't a case of a tree falling or a log simply rolling off a cliff by itself. All the evidence indicated that someone had moved the log and thrown it over the edge. In other words, Victoria hadn't simply died, she had been murdered. This news not only stunned the community, but it also left Victoria's family completely devastated.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

When I was told Victoria had died, our family initially believed it had been a natural accident, an act of God, if you will.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

In my mind, I could have accepted.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

That she died doing what she loved.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

And that no one was responsible beyond nature itself. It was only days later when investigators told us that they believed that this was no freak accident, that I began.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

To feel differently about how she was killed.

[Mike Boudet]

The next step for investigators was to figure out who had thrown the log that killed Victoria and why they had done it. They questioned whether this had been a planned attack or if someone had simply made a reckless and deadly decision. Initially, only one thing was certain. Whoever threw the log hadn't come forward. They fled the scene without ever saying a word. Eventually, investigators received a tip about a young man who had allegedly taken responsibility for throwing the log. 19 year old Isaiah Singri had been at Hocking Hills State park, and his family had reported expressed concern that he might have been involved. A few days after the incident, investigators went to Isaiah's home to speak with him.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Sheriff's office. Come the door.

[Mike Boudet]

When an officer knocked on Isaiah's door, there was no response. For nearly 15 minutes, about 10 cops searched and lingered outside his home. They peered through windows, looking for any sign that someone might be inside, but they saw nothing. Finally, the front door opened. But it wasn't Isaiah who appeared. It was a young woman named Raven. She was Isaiah's girlfriend.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Where else does he stay?

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

He's just here and at his grand.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

So if he. If he's not here, you probably don't care for us to step in and look. Raven, we're not playing. We know he's here. Don't get yourself pimped up in something you don't need to be. Tell him to get his butt out here.

[Mike Boudet]

When investigators questioned Raven, she lied and told him that Isaiah wasn't home. But when they pressed her and asked if they could check the home, she shrugged her shoulders and walked back inside. A few moments later, Isaiah finally appeared.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Come on, Isaiah. How are you? Good. You guys scared the shit out of me? Why? Oh, no, you never had fun Sheriffs pull up to my house before looking for me. You never had that happen. That's a good thing. No. We need to talk to you about something serious. We need your honest truth. Okay. We want to get some stuff taken care of. You need me get for a walk or something? Yeah, we're going to go for a ride. When's this all over? Well, that's what we're going to go have a chat.

[Mike Boudet]

As officers placed Isaiah in the back of a police cruiser, several of his family members began arriving at the house. They were immediately questioned.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Yeah, I watched the news yesterday. Very disturbing. And I had a feeling it was my kids.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

What made you think that?

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Because all the pictures on Facebook of them climbing that wall. Yeah. And you know, it was scary.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

What did. What did Isaiah tell you that they did.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

They didn't know they hurt anybody.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

What's that?

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

That they didn't know if they did hurt somebody. They didn't know.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

What did Isaiah say? He tossed over, cuz. He talked about it.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Oh, he didn't tell me he tossed anything over. Oh, God.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

What did Isaiah say then? That they were climbing on rocks.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Yeah, climbing on Cadence that they're not supposed to be on.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Okay.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

He said he didn't know what happened. He didn't know anything. He hurt anybody until the next day.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Well, how do you think he hurt somebody?

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Something fell and landed on her. I watched it on Creme at school today.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Did Isaiah say what it was? He didn't.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

He was trying to look at it to see what exactly happened on Cream, but it said that a log or a tree fell on top of her.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Did he say anything about a tree or a log?

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Isaiah? No, he just said that he. He. He was just saying that it's dope that he killed someone.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

That's what.

[Mike Boudet]

Dude, allegedly, Isaiah had thought it was dope that he had killed someone. If you're older than me, that means cool or hip or groovy, man. Between his refusal to answer the door when officers came knocking and these statements from his own family, things weren't really looking rosy for Isaiah. So investigators brought him and his girlfriend Raven in to the sheriff's office for questioning.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Well, why didn't you open the door then? Why did you lie about it? About Isaiah being there?

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Because he told me to tell you guys that he wasn't there.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

You think that's a normal response?

[Mike Boudet]

No.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Our experience, guilty people usually hide and lied. Do you know what happened out Saint Parks? And why you're here talking to Us? No. No idea?

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

No.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Isaiah thought he killed somebody?

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Well, my mom told Isaiah that him and my brother would be blamed for killing somebody on Labor Day, but I don't know.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

So why do you think we're talking to you about it?

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Because Isaiah, my brother, was, like, off the trail.

[Mike Boudet]

According to witnesses, Raven's brother and Isaiah had entered a restricted area at Hocking Hill State Park. They'd climbed a cliff that put them directly above the spot where Victoria Shaffer was killed. When investigators questioned Isaiah about this, he seemed genuinely unaware of what had happened. During his interview, Isaiah described the path he and Raven's brother had taken through the park.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

So what happened? I kind of caught a little gist of it on the news and I looked it up and they didn't say anything about looking for anybody or nothing. Just something happened to a lady at Old Man's Cave. Okay, well, let's do it this way. What time did you get there Saturday? I couldn't. Probably about 2 o' clock because we said we're gonna start about 12 and we was a couple hours late. And you guys went to Old Man's Cave? Yeah. So who else do you know that was there with you? My girlfriend's brother, Dylan. Dylan Bradlin? Yep.

[Mike Boudet]

During his interview, Isaiah described the path he and Raven's brother had taken through the park. He also openly admitted that he had climbed into a restricted area.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

One of the trails that go up and around, it's real tall and you can look straight down like this. It's a straight draw ball. Okay. We look down like that and then we noticed there's a rock down below us. So we walked all the way around. When we got to the bottom, but there they had a sign that said don't climb. And we only climbed up probably about. So there's a sign. You cleaned up anyways. Well, it's only like. It literally had steps there. But listen, it was only like 10, 20 foot up. It wasn't that high. It's like, don't have a sign that says don't push the red button. You push the red button. I know it's like 10 to 20 foot high. And we got up there and we got our pictures taken and stuff and we climbed down. We did do stupid. I ain't gonna lie to you. We did this climb up on like the rocks that said do not climb one and take a picture of you, but that was it.

[Mike Boudet]

Isaiah claimed that the only thing he did after climbing into that restricted area was to take some photos. He said nothing about throwing a Log or anything else off the edge of the cliff.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Well, there was comments that was made about you thinking that you killed somebody. Was that. Where did this come from? That. Because everybody said, this is what I heard. This is how I very first heard from it. My girlfriend's mom calls me crying. She's like. I'm like, that shouldn't be. Yeah. I was like, what the hell is your problem, dude? She's like, they're saying you and Dylan killed some girl at the national forest. And I'm like, what are you talking about? And she's like, well, you guys went off the trail and sat and took pictures and stuff. They're saying that something fell off and hit some lady and killed her.

[Mike Boudet]

As investigators spoke with Isaiah, it became clear that the tips they had received were nothing more than rumors, most of which had been started by his overly concerned mother.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

But something did happen that caused a person to die out there. Can I ask what day it was? It was Monday. It was Monday. Labor Day. Okay, then. So I'm in the clear. I know. I'm in the clear. Oh, shit. I know. Well, did you do it? What? Did you throw anything over? Throw anything over? No, I had to throw anything over? No, no. I wasn't even there Monday.

[Mike Boudet]

I said the truth was Isaiah, Raven, and Raven's brother hadn't even been at the state park on the day Victoria was killed. They were there on Saturday, two days before the incident. On Labor Day, when Victoria died, both Isaiah and Raven were at home all day with their kids.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

What day were you out of Homeland's cave?

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Huh?

[Interviewer or Investigator]

What day were you out there? Saturday. This last Saturday?

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Yeah. Did you come back any, like, go back?

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Yeah. Did you ever come after Saturday? Did you go back to Le Mans cave? No. So you never came back here? Back to Logan, Back to. Okay, but then got to the caves? Nothing like that. That was Saturday, right?

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Yeah.

[Mike Boudet]

Fortunately for Isaiah, he was cleared of any wrongdoing. Unfortunately for investigators, they were back to square one. The question of who killed Victoria Schaefer was still unanswered, and it stayed that way for a while here at Second and Walnut streets in downtown Chillicothe. Just 48 hours after Victoria Shaffer's death, in front of her photography studio here, people have already started to drop off candles and flowers to remember her.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

It still hits me with a lot of shock that she's just not here, and I feel worse. For her family, especially her younger daughters.

[Mike Boudet]

Hoped for a resolution to the mystery surrounding her death and the apprehension of the person or people. The odnr says are responsible for somehow dislodging the tree limb that fell on Schaeffer, killing her. As the group hiked Hocking Hills, snapping senior photos along the way.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

They probably never meant for that to happen because Victoria was so loved. I couldn't think of somebody who would want to hurt her. Just I hope that they come forward, you know, and admit what they've done. Her family deserves the that.

[Mike Boudet]

Odnr, the Hocking County Sheriff's Department and BCI are all investigating the incident. They're asking anyone that may have seen something suspicious regarding Shaffer's death to call authorities. For over a month, there were no answers to the mystery surrounding Victoria's death. But in early October 2019, the Hawking County Sheriff's office received a credible tip. This time from a mother and her teenage daughter.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

My daughter's a student at Logan High.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

School and she has a friend that she rides the bus with. And this friend's boyfriend had admitted to her that he took part in the death of. I'm trying to think of what her name was. Ms. Schaefer.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Uh huh.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Actually, I'm gonna have you speak to my daughter. She can give you the information a little bit better than what I can.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Okay.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

All right.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Hello. Hi.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

A girl ride the bus with Bailey Cherry. Her now ex boyfriend, Jordan Buckley apparently was one of the two boys at the park who partook in the branch falling down and hitting Ms. Schaefer. He says he's not the one who hit it. His friend who he's with was, but I don't know his friend's name.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

What grade is Jordan in?

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

10Th. And apparently the other boy involved is in 11th grade. But I. Bailey said his name, but I can't recall it because I've never heard his name before.

[Mike Boudet]

Investigators were given the name of a suspect, 16 year old Jordan Buckley, a student at Logan High School in Logan, Ohio. They looked into Jordan and confirmed he'd been at Hocking Hill State park on the day Victoria died. Then they got access to his social media messages. That's when it all started to make sense. Victoria's death wasn't the result of a random accident or a planned attack. Her death was caused by two teenage boys who had made one very reckless and irreversible decision. If you're the purchasing manager at a manufacturing plant, you know having a trusted partner makes all the difference. That's why hands down, you count on Grainger for auto reordering with on time restocks, your team will have the cut resistant gloves they need at the start of their shift and you can end your day knowing they've got safety well in hand. Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done. Before we get back into this story, I want to take a moment because for a lot of us the only real peace we get is at the end of the day when everything finally goes quiet. That's why I want to tell you about Cozy Earth. The holidays are hectic. Long days, late nights, stress piling up. And when it's finally time to rest, the environment you sleep in matters more than people realize. Cozy Earth's bedding is designed to turn your home into a refuge. Cooler, softer, calmer. Their bamboo sheet set, made from viscose from bamboo, is unbelievably soft, breathable and temperature regulating. You actually sleep cooler and they back it up with a 100 night sleep trial and a 10 year warranty, which tells you how confident they are in the quality. They also make some of the most comfortable pajamas I've ever come across. Perfect for those quiet nights at home when you're finally able to shut the world out. I've arranged an exclusive 40% off discount which is the best deal they offer. Visit cozyearth.com and use promo code sword to give the gift of real comfort this holiday season. And if you get a post purchase survey, make sure you let them know you heard about Cozy Earth from this podcast. Now back to the story. If you're the purchasing manager at a manufacturing plant, you know having a trusted partner makes all the difference. That's why hands down, you count on Grainger for auto reordering with on time restocks. Your team will have the cut resistant gloves they need at the start of their shift and you can end your day knowing they've got safety well in hand. Call 1-800-granger. Click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done. On September 2, 2019, 46 year old photographer Victoria Shafer was killed at Hocking Hill State park when a log fell from a cliff and brutally struck her in the head. At first this tragedy appeared to be an accident, but it quickly evolved into a murder investigation.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

This actually happened back on Labor Day of last year in 2019 and at first everyone thought it was just a terrible act of nature. A log comes rolling off a cliff in a wilderness area and then it evolves and we're pretty quickly find out from investigators that it was maybe not an accident and I think that shocked.

[Mike Boudet]

Everyone after weeks with no answers, investigators finally identified a suspect. A 16 year old high school student named Jordan Buckley. According to one of Jordan's classmates, he had admitted to doing something terrible at the state park. Investigators went to Logan High School, took over a conference room and invited Jordan to have a conversation with them.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

But now that I know what this is about, this is. I was there that day. I think. I don't remember what day it was, but I know it's like September. So this last month me and my friends were. I know you're, you're nervous and you're going to get it all out and that's great, we want you to get it on. Just let me finish up few things right here and we'll, we'll get, we'll let you talk as much as you want to talk. Nothing really happened.

[Mike Boudet]

When Jordan was brought in for questioning, he seemed eager to tell his side of the story and talk about the day that Victoria died. That was of course perfectly fine with investigators that day.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Me and my friends. I don't know if you guys want me to give you their names or not. Oh yeah, it doesn't really matter. Jamie Churches was with me, Miranda Spencer and AJ. I don't know AJ's last name. It was just us, we were just walking around bored. So we were like, let's go on a hiking. On a hike. So you say you was at home? Man's Gate? Yeah, we were Elements Cave, that's where we went. And then when we went there, nothing was happening. But we went up like on the back side of the hill and then we came back because some guy told us that someone got smashed by a branch. So we turned around and we went down towards the bottom part and then we came back up and there was a bunch of like EMS people running past us and sirens and everything. Really? Yeah. So we just left.

[Mike Boudet]

Jordan explained that he was at Hocking Hill State park with three of his teenage friends, Jaden Churches, Miranda Spencer and AJ Warren. Jordan claimed that while they walked the trails, a man came running past them and warned them not to continue on the path they were on because someone had gotten hurt. So the four teenagers simply turned around and left.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Yeah, we were on top and then some guy came up to us. I don't know who it was. It was an African American guy, had long dreads. And he came up to me and he said, don't go that way. And I asked him why? And he said a branch fell down and so smashed some woman. And I said, a branch? She said, yeah, Like, a tree branch fell off. So we went down, and then we walked down the stairs, and we just came back. Went home? Yeah. We weren't there. Nothing really happened.

[Mike Boudet]

Naturally, the investigators were skeptical of Jordan's version of events, and they knew he was leaving a whole lot out of the story.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Jordan, I want you to be honest with me. Okay? Yeah. Before we come in here, we've already got our answers. We asked a series of questions that we. We have answers to. All right, so this is the time coming because there's some allegations been brought against you. What were they? Well, you were there. You confirmed that she was there. We knew that she was there. So there's more to this story. Tell us about the branch being up on top. Well, that. I didn't do anything. Like, I wasn't. I just don't like snitching on people. That's the problem. This is the time. This is not about snitching. This is about telling the truth. And telling the truth gets you further than not telling the truth. We were. Me and Jaden walked all the way farther down, like, clear to the end, not where the metal bridge is. This guy did say that to us, but we did end up going back down, But I skipped a part of what we did. We walked all the way down to the end of this. And Jaden kicked off a branch. Not a branch. It was a log. It was a big log, like, probably this wide, this long. And he kicked it, and it rolled off the cliffs, and it made a loud bang. So we ran, and we ran into Miranda and AJ they had no idea. We didn't tell them. That log. Yeah, it's that log. That log. He just kicked it. He didn't pick it up, push it or anything. He just kicked it.

[Mike Boudet]

It took investigators less than 20 minutes to get Jordan to break and to get him talking about the log that killed Victoria Shaffer. Though his account of how the log ended up rolling off the cliff didn't make much sense. He claimed that his friend Jaden had simply kicked it, but investigators knew that couldn't be possible.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

I don't know if he. I wasn't, like, paying attention to what he was doing, so I don't know if he intentionally kicked it or if he, like, stumbled on it. Did he pick it up first and carry it? No, he didn't pick it up at all. Not that I saw him. How did he get on the other side of the tree? I have no idea. That log that you just pointed to me, right? It was laying right here. There Was a pile of them, right? Yeah. There was trees. Two of them. Remember those? There was a tree on this side, too, and it was in between these trees. It was laying like this. And then he kicked it.

[Mike Boudet]

The evidence at the crime scene told investigators that the log had been moved before it dropped from the cliff. Its original location was several feet from the cliff's edge. There was simply no way that a single kick or even several kicks would have caused it to fall.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

You been following this on tv? Following what? This story on tv. You seen anything on tv, Social media? I haven't seen anything about it. Nothing. You don't even know what happened that day? No, I just didn't acknowledge any of it. You didn't acknowledge anything? Yeah, I just didn't, like, think anything of it. Said, you know, why? What happened? Not really. You had no idea? Not really. So when you sent a text to your girlfriend at the time, I mean, yeah, I got. Well, I knew what happened, but I didn't know what happened to cause that, like, completely what happened. Like, I was there with my friends, but I wasn't the one that did it. And I know that it killed the woman when it fell down on her. And I heard the loud bang, and I saw Jaden run. And I was running with Jaden. So why didn't you. Why didn't you call 911? Why didn't you do anything? Because I was freaking out, and I thought I was going to get in trouble for it. Okay. And I didn't want to get charges against me for involuntary manslaughter or something. So you have researched this? No, I just know a lot.

[Mike Boudet]

Not only was Jordan's story impossible, but investigators could tell he had already researched the criminal charges he might face if the truth came out. And that wasn't all. The investigators knew that Jordan and Jayden had made a secret pact to stay quiet about what had happened at the park. In other words, the murder they committed was supposed to stay between them.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

You and Jayden talked anymore about this? Nope. You guys didn't make a pact and say, hey, man, never gonna say anything. You gotta keep this a secret? Yeah, we did say that. That's why I told you that story. But then after I realized the severity of it, I could get in a lot more trouble for his, like, his actions if I'm the one not doing anything. But. And I don't want that to happen. So I kind of texted Jaden, was like, dude, something's gonna happen. This. We're gonna get caught. I said, I don't know what you want me to say, but I'm not getting in trouble for you. I said, I won't tell them, but if they ask me, I'm not gonna completely lie and get myself in trouble. And then he said, okay, I'm not really worried about it.

[Mike Boudet]

As you might expect a teenager to do. Jordan put all the blame on his friend, insisting that Jaden was solely responsible for what had happened. He also claimed that Jaden seemed proud of what he had done.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

You can hook me up to a live text test. I can kick it out and throw it. Almost all Jaden told me was I kicked log off. Like I will. I swear on everything. He didn't put the lie detector test on me. And I'll say the same exact thing because that's exactly what happened. Did Jaden say he did? Yeah, Jaden says Jaden's told me that he didn't before. The girl said, yeah, he said that in front of me. Okay, so the girl said. He said, I already caught a body by the age of 60, so you my bottom of this. Funny. He said, what? I already got a body at the age of 16. You said this was funny. I don't think it's funny. I think that's the only reason why I'm telling you all this, because I think it's serious. It's very serious. Someone lost their life for someone being stupid and messing around.

[Mike Boudet]

According to Jordan, Jaden had said, quote, I already caught a body at the age of 16. If that was true, investigators figured they might be dealing with a complete sociopath. But more on Jaden in a minute. As for Jordan, investigators already knew he had admitted to throwing the log. Not to them, but to another one of his friends. So naturally, they wanted answers. If he hadn't touched the log, why tell someone he did? Jordan explained he he was simply trying to impress a girl because apparently bragging about murder is how you get pussy. Can we get some dads around here or Nah.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

And the only person I told was Bailey. What'd you tell her? I told her that me and Jaden threw a log off. Okay, but I was just saying that to a cool because I thought it was cool, but it's not. After I realized the severity of it and you look cool, so. I mean, charges charged with murder. I know, but that's what I'm saying. If it comes down to it, I would literally take a lot of type of tests for this. Like, if you guys do not believe me, I had nothing to do with it, and I did not kick or touch that log. Why didn't you just say something?

[Mike Boudet]

Because.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

I don't know, I was freaked out about it because I thought it was just all going to go away and everybody would have forgot about it. You're going to forget about a death? No, I just. I don't know. Ever see what a woman looks like with her head bashed open? No. You want to see it? No. Yeah, that's the thing. Irresponsible act. I know. Four kids without a mom, husband without a wife. Grow up. It's time to grow up right now. I know. If there is anything you have not told us works, anything you held back, anything you don't want to tell us. Maybe you guys were kicking the wall together. You gotta tell us. I did not kick that log with him. I swear on everything. Did you touch that log? So I pushed. I touched the log to move it out of the area, but I move it out of the air to move it. It was right in between these trees and he pushed it out. And then I helped him push it out, but he kicked it down. I didn't kick it. So I did touch the wall. So you didn't help him? No, I didn't know he was gonna kick it off. I helped him pull it out. Yeah.

[Mike Boudet]

Once again, Jordan's story changed. He still insisted he wasn't the one who threw the log, but he finally admitted to moving it. But even with this admission, Jordan's story still didn't make much sense.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

What if I told you that I had a special computer that come in called a total Station that reconstructed this whole scene? Puts the trajectory of the log going over the edge and the possibilities of what that log weighed and what the possibility is of one person throwing it versus two people. I. I don't. I mean, if you want to, you can. We can do that. I already have. It's time to tell the truth. I. I didn't throw it off. I swear on. On everything. I am. I'm telling the truth. I didn't throw the log off. Yes, I am. I'm telling the truth. I did not throw that log off. He helped you. No, I did not. I did not throw the log off. Is it possible for him to pick up a six foot log? But I don't know. I didn't throw the log off with him. I swear on everything. Did you grab one end? Did you grab the other end? Nope. All I did was drag it. That's the only thing I did.

[Mike Boudet]

There were several things about Jordan's story that were either implausible or impossible. First, there was the size and weight of the log. Six feet long, 75 pounds. It wasn't likely that one person could have thrown it alone, especially a scrawny little juvenile shit like Jordan or Jaden. Second, just below the cliff where the log came from, there was another ledge, a protruding rock formation. For the log to clear that it would have taken serious effort and force. The most likely scenario is that both Jordan and Jaden moved the log and threw it together. Just two teenage boys experimenting with gravity because that's the extent of their intellect.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Miranda and AJ would tell you that I didn't throw it off too. It was Jaden, he threw the log off you, you pulled it back and then he threw it off. Yeah, but I didn't know he was going to. Miranda and watching. Yeah, but I didn't know he was going to throw off. So every time we talk we get a little bit different story. Now Miranda and AJ's there.

[Mike Boudet]

Initially, Jordan told investigators that the girls he was with that day hadn't seen anything. But like every other part of his story, that turned out to be a lie. His friends Miranda and AJ had seen exactly what happened. And investigators questioned them both, starting with the 15 year old AJ.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Warren, go ahead and tell us about going to the park that day.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

It was me and Miranda and Jaden and Jordan and we decided to go to the caves and the boys saw a log and were picking it up and they were like, you know, they were going to throw it off and we said not to do that because you have no. Like you don't know what's under there. You don't know if someone's under there, you know, and so they dropped the log onto the ground, like onto the cliff that we were on. And it rolled back off and it. So we started walking away. A man started walking or was pacing and running. He said that a woman got hit with a large branch or log and he believes that, he believes that she didn't make it, that she was dead. So, you know, we obviously were very.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

You know, shook it up about it and didn't know what to do.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

We knew it was wrong and we knew that whether it wasn't intentional, you know, they weren't trying to hurt somebody and they weren't trying to kill somebody.

[Mike Boudet]

Putting it mildly. AJ's version of events made a lot more sense than Jordan's. But one critical question remained. Who actually threw the log?

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Who touched the log?

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Now Jordan picked it up. Well, didn't pick it up, but he grabbed it from one End to make it stand up. And they were gonna push it off. So then Jaden looked and they dropped it on, not off the cliff, but onto the ground and it rolled.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

It fell back off the cliff. So let me get this straight. Jordan's holding this log on its end. Okay. He's picked it up. It's standing on the end. He's holding it. You're stating that Jaden went over, looked over the edge to see if anybody was over there and stated that he couldn't see anybody. Is that right? Yes, sir. Okay, now what happened?

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Jordan just.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Jordan's still holding this law?

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Yeah, he's still holding it.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Okay.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

And. And so Jordan let go of the other end. Not pushing it.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

So he's holding up?

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Yeah, he's holding.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Let's go.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Let's go. Not pushing it or not kicking it over the edge, but he lets go and it hits the ground. Like if you were. If we were further from the edge and he dropped, wouldn't. I don't think it would have rolled off.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

But it was.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

So it was closer to the edge where he dropped it and it like.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Just rolled back off. Jordan lets go of it, it falls, goes back to the ground and rolls off. Yes, sir. 100 positive? Absolutely. 100.

[Mike Boudet]

That is what happened with it.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Whatever.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

I remember.

[Mike Boudet]

But that explanation didn't add up. It wasn't likely that simply releasing the log would have given it enough force to clear the ledge below. To complicate things further, the other witness, 19 year old Miranda Spencer, gave investigators a similar story, but with the roles reversed. She claimed Jordan only looked over the edge to make sure no one was below. And it was Jaden who actually sent the log off the cliff.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Jordan looks over the cliff and is like, there's nobody down there. Like, you're a good dude. And then Jaden either kicks it off or pushes it off. I'm not sure, but he definitely. He didn't pick it up.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

So it was just like rolled off.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Basically.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Jaden picked up the log, picked it up.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

I don't think he. He didn't pick it up, but he's the one that pushed it out.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Jaden pushed it off? Yes, Jaden pushed it off. Jaden was.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Yeah, Jaden. Jordan didn't touch the log at all.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Had anybody in your party touched it prior to that to move it to that location? No.

[Mike Boudet]

Like aj Miranda was adamant about what she saw, but their accounts didn't match and investigators wanted to know why.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

What I'm saying is what happened? Like, like, I'm not kidding.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

How about the log. How long was. How long was it? Who held the log? Who. Who moved the log? Jaden moved the log. He moved the log.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Jaden moved the log.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Then what did Jordan do?

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Jaden? Jordan said that he, like he looked over the ledge and said that there was nobody down there. So Jayden pushed it off because he didn't think he was gonna hurt anybody. But Jayden rolled the alarm 100%.

[Mike Boudet]

These conflicting accounts didn't make sense. AJ was certain that Jordan rolled the log. Miranda was just as sure it was Jaden. How could either of them be wrong about something like that? And if someone was lying, the question was why?

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Your story and Miranda's have one major flawed principle. I can't figure that out for the life of me. Why not say what it is, But I just can't figure out for the life of me why there's one major difference here.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

I have no idea. Everything I told you is exactly what I remember from that day.

[Mike Boudet]

As investigators tried to make sense of the conflicting statements from AJ And Miranda, they also had a decision to make. What should they do with Jordan and what charges would he face?

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Am I going to get arrested? For what? I don't know. That's what I'm saying. I don't know if there's any charges that I can get for witnessing a murder. Think about what you did. You touched the murder weapon. I know, but I. I wasn't the one that voluntarily did it. I. It wasn't my fault that it happened. What happens? You and him go rob a store, he shoots and kills a clerk. Well, I get in trouble for being with him, you get charged for murder.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Cbc.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

So I'm gonna get charged for involuntary manslaughter. I consider just murder. So I'm gonna get murdered for this.

[Mike Boudet]

Before investigators could move forward with, with any charges against Jordan, there was still one critical step left. They needed to talk to the other teenager, the one who had allegedly bragged about killing someone. They needed to question 16 year old Jaden churches. If you deal with fatigue more than you'd like to admit, this is worth knowing about. Patriox is ultra high oxygen content spring water, sometimes called liquid oxygen, designed to help support energy recovery and overall vitality. It's not flavored, it's not gimmicky. It's just purified spring water that's been oxygenated to help your body function more efficiently. People use it to feel more refreshed, recover faster, and push through long days without crashing. Simple idea. Practical use. I've arranged an exclusive 10% discount, which is the best offer they have. Go to Patriox US and use promo code Sword at checkout. If you're the kind of person who likes trying things, you can't get just anywhere, this is worth checking out. Molly B's makes artisan crafted gourmet cookies baked in small batches and shipped straight to your door. No cookie shop required. These aren't basic flavors. They're layered, unexpected and deliberately different things like chocolate and cherry with amaretto or Earl Grey tea with lavender, white chocolate and lemon glaze. The company was founded by a single mom from Alaska and somehow went from a small operation to being featured on the Food Network and Martha Stewart Living in just a few years. They're great for gifts or just keeping something genuinely interesting in your pantry. I've arranged an exclusive 10% off for listeners. Go to mollybz.com that's mollybz.com and use promo code Sword at checkout. If you're tired of sports bras that only work for one thing, this is worth checking out. Handful makes sports bras and activewear designed by women for women. Built to actually handle real movement, their bras are supportive without being restrictive, comfortable enough for everyday wear and versatile enough for everything from workouts to running errands. The materials are breathable, moisture wicking and durable. And the designs are made to move with you instead of fighting you. It's activewear that doesn't need constant adjusting. I've arranged an exclusive 30% off, which is the best deal they offer. Go to handful.com and use promo code Sword at checkout. On Labor Day 2019, 46 year old Victoria Shaffer was killed when a six foot log was thrown from a cliff at Hocking Hills State Park. The Investigation led to two 16 year old boys, Jordan Buckley and Jaden Churches. Jordan had already been questioned, but his version of events wasn't just questionable, it was impossible. Next investigators sat down with Jaden in the same school conference room where they had questioned Jordan. But this interview came with one key difference. Jaden's mother was also in the room.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

I'm sure you haven't known your best career for me.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Hi, I'm Tammy. I was in a good mood when I got here. I sat two hours.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Yeah, we're tired. You're in there. Are you kidding me?

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

I've been sitting there for two hours waiting on you guys.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Oh, we were busy doing something.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

If I knew that, yeah, he would have been here if I knew it was going to take two hours to talk to you.

[Mike Boudet]

When Jaden's interview started, there was already a good bit of tension in the air. His mother was frustrated. She'd been waiting for hours before investigators were ready to speak with her and Jaden. And the tension only grew from there.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

You can't hear us, so we didn't record it or something.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Well, everything we do is audio.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

I can record it too, then, right?

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Absolutely.

[Mike Boudet]

About 10 minutes into the interview, and just after investigators read Jaden his Miranda rights, a school employee stepped into the room to bring Jaden some lunch.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Maybe they're out of chicken sandwiches. Would you like something? No, just take it. Every time he eats lunch here, they're out of everything.

[Mike Boudet]

After Jaden's mom made it clear she was ready to complain about literally everything, the investigators finally got around to asking Jaden some questions.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Riding my bike. Langstro Skate park, the BMX place right beside the pool. Like, going out to hiking, do anything. I mean, I like to hunt. I like the duck hunt, that stuff. But hiking, I don't really like walking a lot, so I just ride my bike a lot and stay in town with my friends. Who's your friends? Johnny Cole, Garrett Mace. Just a lot of football players.

[Mike Boudet]

Interestingly, when Jaden was asked about his friends, he left out one important name.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Jordan. Jordan. He's my friend. What's Jordan, though? I know a lot of Jordan. Buckler Buckle. Buckler Buckle. I mean, he's a great under me, and I've hung out with anybody. Well, Jaden, you know, we've been beating around the bush, and I'm just gonna get straight to it. There's been some. There was an incident at Hocking Hill State Park. I know that you was there. Yes, I was there. Okay, tell me about that day. We pulled up. We were about to go hike and go down and look around, and then some dude comes running past, and he's like, somebody just got hit with something. And I think she said, so we're like, what? And we turn around and we leave, because we don't even want to go down there to see it or anything. And then once we're walking out, there's, like, ambulances pulling up and all this. The Miranda.

[Mike Boudet]

The initial stories that both Jaden and Jordan gave investigators were nearly identical. When they were first asked what happened, neither of them mentioned the log being thrown from the cliff, at least not until investigators confronted them with it directly. It's almost as if they had rehearsed what to say.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Before we come in here, we already have all the answers. Might be one or two that we don't know. We've already talked to people. A lot of serious accusations been brought against you. And this is the time to tell the truth to help yourself. Because right now it's really serious. Really really serious. And you need to be honest. We know a lot more than what you think. All right.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

And you need to talk to me sir.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

In private. Was this an accident?

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Because he's underage. He's underage. And it sounds like you're. You know exactly what happened. So maybe you should go tell me exactly what happened and then I will talk to him because I don't like you saying that you knew what happened.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Yes ma'.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Am.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

And.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Okay. Then you know who did it and what happened. So good. Then we'll go in the other room and you can tell me if he participated in this is gonna work. It's not.

[Mike Boudet]

I wonder if this mom's name is Karen. It should be.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Your son did something that resulted in a death of a lady.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

No.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Yes ma'. Am. No. I can prove that beyond a shadow over.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Then somebody ought to be proving it to me before they're saying something like that to him. Cuz that is very upsetting.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

What we want to know was this an accident? There's always two sides of.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

I'm not liking this.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

I don't like this from day one.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

I don't like it either.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Neither does the family or the lady. That.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Excuse me. I know that I have felt very bad about that. That is sickening to me. And I have even said this is a horrible thing that for you to sit here and say that he had something to do with this.

[Mike Boudet]

And Mary Jaden's mom became understandably distraught. She tried to step in and defend her son but there wasn't much she could do except sit there and watch him take the heat.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

But I want to know was this an accident or is this something that you meant to do? Because that's a big difference. If this is an accident. Where you were trying to do this is one thing. I didn't do it. I was there. Okay, so tell me what happened step by step. Like basically what I was saying when we walked up by the stairs. Jordan walks like we were walking and then there was log and he kicks it and it starts to slide. So you say Jordan kicked it out and then it slid.

[Mike Boudet]

And then there was unsurprisingly Jaden pointed the finger at Jordan just like Jordan had done to him. He claimed Jordan had kicked the log sending it over the edge of the cliff. So much for that secret pact they had Made to keep this quiet. Isn't that right, Jaden?

[Interviewer or Investigator]

I know about your pack, Jordan. You guys already had this rehearsed. Did you touch the lull? Because we've talked to Jordan. I grabbed the log. Okay, so you touched the log. I touched it, but I did not kick it off or throw it off. But what happened to it? How did that smash, lady? He got kicked off the edge. Who kicked it? Jordan. Jordan kicked it? Yes. Are you sure? Yes, sir.

[Mike Boudet]

Once again, investigators were put in a difficult spot. Each suspect was blaming the other, and all they could do was keep pressing Jaden for the truth.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Did. Okay. I did not kick it off. Did you throw it off? No, sir. Not trying to hide anything here. I'm giving you the answers. You're asking for truthful answers. Yes.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Do you know what? Because I. I'm being very patient with this, but it sounds like you're trying to talk him into saying something, that he's being honest.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

I'm trying to talk him into telling me the truth.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

He just chew on my nose.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

The truth. I did.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

So you're trying to get him to say something. That I'm trying to get him to.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Tell us the truth is what I'm trying to do.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Not a trick I don't understand. Have his phone. You have.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

We're just trying to get him to tell us what happened.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Because at the end, that's not the truth.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

At the end of the day, that lady lost her life.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

I know that. I'm very sad for that of you. Very sad for. I was sick to my stomach when I heard about this. And. And then to find out that he us there.

[Mike Boudet]

The investigators kept pushing back, but having Jaden's mom in the room didn't make their job any easier.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

So should I arrest Jordan today for homicide? Because that's what's going to happen.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

We better do the lie detectors first on Jordan, don't you think? Before you arrest him for homicide. It doesn't matter what he says. You guys have to do it. Don't you just. Just. Just talk like Detective talk.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

You can't.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

You think I would let you arrest him like Jordan Spears are going to let you arrest Jordan without a lighter? Detective House, you don't have a choice.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

In the United States, there's a thing called probable cause.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

You know what? I don't have a choice. So you're going to have to just. You're just going to have to talk. Get attorney with a minimum wage, two jobs that I work. Because you know what? We do have choices. I know this lady died. When you get the lie detector test set up for him, then you'll just have to contact me. As for now, Jaden, I will be leaving.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Jaden's going to place under arrest.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

No, he said he can't be. He said he's 16 years old.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

He did something that resulted him in the death a Ms. Shaver.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Where are you think you're going to take him?

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Juvenile detention. No. Yes, ma'. Am.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

That's how serious this is.

[Mike Boudet]

Jaden remained adamant that he hadn't thrown the log. And every time investigators pushed him to admit otherwise, his mom stepped in.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

You got to be completely honest. This is your life. I know Ms. Shaffer's life is already over. I know this. We got to make her life right. And I told you what happened. I told you who kicked it off. Do you notice? 74 pound roll does to a lady's head and your head explodes.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Are you gonna show him a picture of that too?

[Interviewer or Investigator]

I don't have a picture of it. Good.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

That's pretty.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Do you wanna see it? I can show you. I'll show you what your son did.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Excuse me? I'm asking what my son did.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Yes, ma'. Am. There's witnesses to this.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

There's not witnesses. They're all saying each other did it. Until you have. Until you have some. Some pretty good stuff then. I know. I don't. I don't want to believe any of that. I don't. I don't want to see some lady's head splattered. I don't want anybody to be injured.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

So who do you think should be accountable for this?

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Whoever did it. Whoever was responsible for making them all go over the clip. Exactly.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

I would agree with that 100%.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

You know, whether the kids were playing, whether it was. I'm sure they didn't do it on purpose because they were playing. If they were playing that this was an accident, I'm sure they aren't just going to say, I want to kill some lady. Let's throw a lull on our head. I mean, who does that?

[Mike Boudet]

Jaden's mom. And the investigators continued to butt heads. But in the end, it was a losing battle for both sides. Jayden's mom couldn't stop her son from being arrested. And investigators couldn't get him to admit he had thrown the log. Eventually, Jayden and his mom were informed that a judge had already signed off on Jayden's arrest. He was going to jail and there was nothing anyone could do to stop it.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

You know what that's doing to Me that's hitting me in the head with a long. You cannot do that because you can't take him to the jail. There's bad people there. Well, there's not good people in jail. There's bad people there. Why did you say the long of the head? Because you're trying. You're trying to take him away for something that you can't take.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Again, this is not me. This is the prosecutor's office. This is the actual prosecutor and the juvenile court judge. This is out of my hands.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

You're just going to take him out of here with him right now through this school? Is that in case. How's that make you feel?

[Interviewer or Investigator]

It hasn't made me feel very good at all since the beginning of. This is September 2nd at 6:20. When I got that phone call and I seen that lady has not made me feel good at all. This doesn't make me feel good.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Do you know what? I have raised this boy for 17 years by myself and this does not make me feel good. Why would you take him out of his school like this in front of these people? He's never been away from me. You can't just take him down there.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Yes, we can. So stay in the.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Please, no. You guys.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

You're going to have a court date.

[Mike Boudet]

Jaden was officially placed under arrest. And when the handcuffs came out, his mom all but lost it.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

You know, he's been paying cuffs or something on him. Oh my perfect. Gosh, what a great way to start off your life when you're 17. Can't you just like walk him out there? He's not a criminal.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Ms. Schaefer was 46 years old.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Pardon me?

[Interviewer or Investigator]

So the Schaefer is 46 years old.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

I know how old she is. I've read. What are you telling me that for?

[Interviewer or Investigator]

You're saying he's 17? I'm telling you, 46 years old.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

You know, I feel really bad for this lady that's gone in her family. This is not good to do to our family.

[Mike Boudet]

Jaden had the benefit of having his mom in the room during his interview, while Jordan had to face investigators on his own. Though Jordan did get to call his mother. And the difference between the two parents couldn't have been more stark.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Were you a part of it, Jordan?

[Interviewer or Investigator]

I didn't like push it off, but I moved the log with him. I pulled it out. I didn't know he was going to kick it off though. But a woman died.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Why did you not tell Chris and Ibis?

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Because I freaked out, Mom. I freaked out it doesn't matter.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

I've taught you to do right. Jordan. A woman lost her life, and you knew it. Always coming first is what you do.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Someone ask him for his DNA sample. It's just a swab of the mouth. Yes. Yes.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

I mean, if he's in the wrong, he knows that I've taught my kids that.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

That they take the punishment. Okay, so we have your permission to take that swab.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

You have my permission to take his. Yes.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Okay.

[Mike Boudet]

On one hand, Jaden's mom was ready to defend her son, no matter what he may have done. Jordan's mom, however, seemed ready to hand Jordan over the police on a silver platter. I'm not a parent, so I'll reserve my judgment on this one. And you guys don't like it when I judge anyway, so you judge for yourselves. Who handled it better. Who is the better parent in this situation? I know you'll have your own thoughts. Leave them in the comments. After Jaden was arrested, investigators took Jordan back to Hocking Hill State Park. Once there, they walked him through his version of what happened the day Victoria Shaffer was killed, though much of his story still didn't add up.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

How did you move it? With my foot.

[Mike Boudet]

Like.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Well, I grabbed it at first, and it wouldn't move. So I took my foot and I pushed it like this. My foot. I was just messing around. I wasn't even gonna. I was gonna put it back. I was just messing around. So I was bored and he was high. That's probably why he did it. And then after it went off, it rolled and it bounced again after this. That's where it kind of went over that. And there's a lip right there. So I hit the lip and it bounced. That's why it pounced. I knew it bounced, but I didn't know why. So that's why I thought he threw it. But he did say, I'm going to throw it. After this happened, I kind of just realized the severity of it and how someone lost their life. Like, how would I feel if that would happen to my mom when she was taking pictures of me or something from my senior pictures? That's not fair to them to not know the answer to it. And that's why I feel bad.

[Mike Boudet]

During this walkthrough, Jordan claimed he felt bad about what happened. But let's be honest, it was a little late for that. If he really felt bad, he would have come forward. Instead, he made a pact with Jaden to keep the murder quiet and even bragged about it later to impress A girl he liked. Not exactly the behavior of someone with a guilty conscience. Not exactly the behavior of someone with a conscience, period.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

So what do you think should happen to you? Well, I'm hoping that I don't get anything too extreme, but I know that I probably am going to get charged for being a witness. And being a witness, you're not saying anything about it. Well, being a witness, you don't get charged for being a witness. Yeah, but you charge if you did something or if you lied about it. That's what gets you in trouble. I have a fight about things.

[Mike Boudet]

So far, Jordan claimed he hadn't lied about anything. So far. In reality, he'd lied about nearly everything right up until investigators called him out. At first, he left out the log entirely. Then he claimed Miranda and AJ hadn't seen what happened. After that, he insisted he never touched the log at all. None of this was true. All of this begged a question. What else was Jordan lying about?

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Our victim was down here with her head bashed in. Okay, so it's impossible for that log to roll off so that we landed here. It had to have trajectory and have force, some kind of force to get out this 10 foot where she was at. So right now, this is the time. I'm trying to be cooperative. I understand you're trying to be cooperative with me. I want. I need the truth right now. I'm trying to tell you because I'm trying to. So if you're standing there and I'm holding this log that it was thrown out where she was at. He is 100. Right? So this is the point in time where you tell us, either you seen him do it, we both did it, or it was more than. Than two of you. But whatever happened needs to come out now because we can't help you. I did not do it. I did not do it. And Miranda and AJ had nothing to do with this one.

[Mike Boudet]

One of the strangest parts of this case was how all four teenagers described the log as simply rolling off the clock cliff and not being thrown. But that didn't make sense. For the log to land where it did, it would have taken considerable force. The reality was someone or multiple people had to have thrown it. And none of the teenagers could explain that inconsistency. The only thing that made sense was that both Jordan and Jaden picked up the log together and flung it off the cliff.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

I didn't help him do it. I don't remember what he did to get it off. I just know Jaden did it. I don't know remember everything. I don't know remember that specific detail. Yes. That's the only thing that I had trouble remembering the whole time. That's the only thing. Be in my shoes right now. Okay. You can remember everything, but you can't remember that specific detail. So I'm sitting here thinking, man, It happened so fast. I turned around. He said, I'm going to throw it off. I turned back around and it was. And he was already going down.

[Mike Boudet]

Another unanswered question was why the two female witnesses pointed fingers at different people. Miranda said Jayden through the log. AJ Claimed it was Jordan. Miranda even went as far as saying Jordan never touched the log at all, which made no sense considering Jordan himself admitted that he helped move it.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Jordan has admitted moving.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Jordan didn't move along.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

He admitted to me. But why would he admit to me that he moved the log?

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

I'm telling you that Jordan Jaden was.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

The one that moved the log.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Like, that's what I remember. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Like, me and Jordan have no connection.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Like.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Like, I don't like Jordan at all.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

I took Jordan to the scene. We've done a walkthrough.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

I was just telling you what I remember.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

He was telling us how he moved the log where he was standing.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Not lying, though.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

I'm telling you what I remember.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

And if what I remember is wrong.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Then I can't help that.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Like, but I'm trying to tell you.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

What, as much as I know, like, I can't help that.

[Mike Boudet]

Investigators later suspected that Miranda was lying to protect herself because of a prior romantic relationship she had with Jordan when they dated. Jordan may not have reached Ohio's age of consent, which was 16, by the way. Yeah, Ohio sucks. It's possible Miranda did not want to implicate Jordan, fearing he might turn around and expose her. She may have been trying to avoid facing statutory rape charges.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Do you have any relationships with Jordan? Jordan? Yeah. Do you understand that we're not here about you having sex with Jordan? Yes.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

I'm telling you I didn't have sex with Jordan.

[Mike Boudet]

Miranda admitted she'd been in a relationship with Jordan, but denied ever having sex with him. Nonetheless, Miranda was never charged with any form of sexual assault. Instead, she was charged with obstruction for lying during the investigation of Victoria Shaffer's murder.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Miranda Spencer of Nelsonville received a suspended 90 day sentence.

[Mike Boudet]

She pled guilty to obstructing official business in court. Miranda changed her story. Instead of blaming Jayden, she claimed she couldn't remember who touched the log or which of the boys had sent it over the cliff. As for Jayden and Jordan, both were indicted on charges of murder, involuntary manslaughter and reckless homicide. Despite being just 16, both were charged as adults, meaning they were now facing the full weight of the criminal justice system.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

They ended up both taking plea deals where they would plead only to involuntary manslaughter in exchange for having the other charges, murder and reckless homicide, dropped.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

17 year old Jordan Buckley walked into.

[Mike Boudet]

Court with his family and pled guilty to involuntary manslaughter.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

How do you plead? I plead guilty.

[Mike Boudet]

Buckley then stood up, turned and addressed.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Victoria's family, including her husband, Fritz. I understand that my actions that day caused your family's life to change. And my hope from all of this disease is trauma to learn and wisdom right of my life in a way that will honor Ms. Shakers.

[Mike Boudet]

Both teens took plea deals. In exchange, the murder and homicide charges were dropped and their cases were sent back to juvenile court. At their sentencing hearings, both Jaden and Jordan offered weak apologies to Victoria's family.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

First, I wanted to apologize to Ms. Shaefer's family. I know that no matter what, say nothing will bring your loved one back. I know what I did was wrong. I hope that you know I never intended to hurt anyone that day at Hocking Hills. However, I realize now that my actions can have unintended consequences. I want to let you know that I think about this decision for the rest of my life. I have learned from my wrongful actions and we'll take this opportunity to become a better person and hopefully use this experience to help others.

[Mike Boudet]

At the sentencing, Victoria's family members took turns speaking. Her younger sister was first to address the court.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

I'm confronted daily by ways in which.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

My sister is missing. Absence of mindedly thinking of texting her.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

When she crosses my mind, missing her encouragement when I need it most, and the guidance that only an older sister.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Provide, even catching glimpses of her face in my own reflection. I believe that is why over one.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Year later, I'm not only still heartbroken.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

Over the loss of someone so critically.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Important in my life, but I'm angry that the individuals responsible did not immediately come forward. In fact, hiding the secret among them.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

For over a month until someone else turned them in.

[Mike Boudet]

Next to speak and deliver a truly heartbreaking impact statement was Victoria's husband.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

Victoria's death was so tragic, so devastating, and so senseless, it's unimaginable. And whatever I say here today won't come even close to describing how painful this has been. For me, for my family. The night before she died, we were up late. She was editing photos. It was probably after 1am she didn't have to get up early the next morning. Day was Labor Day. She was looking forward to going to Old Man's Cave and doing the photo shoot with her senior reps. We were lying in bed and she was in my arms. And she told me something she never told me before. She said the happiest part of her day was at the end of the night and she was in my arms. She told me she loved me and couldn't wait to spend the rest of her life with me. I loved her more at that moment than ever before. And the next night, she was gone.

[Mike Boudet]

The loss Victoria's family endured was unimaginable. But despite their grief, they agreed to the plea deals that had been offered to Jaden and Jordan.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

I want to first clarify how we came to this agreement because it was very, very difficult. We said we'd think about it for a few days. My children are very compassionate. And what ultimately helped us make the decision to offer this as one feel was that Victoria was a very compassionate person. We all felt that she would have wanted to give them a second chance.

[Mike Boudet]

In the end, it was the compassion Victoria had instilled in those around her that likely spared Jaden and Jordan from a lifetime behind bars. During sentencing, Victoria's daughter read an impact statement written by Victoria's mother. In it, Jaden and Jordan were offered only one path to redemption.

[Detective or Law Enforcement Officer]

I need to know that you will do your very best to turn your life around. I need to know that when you are released from the sentence, you will have become a man who will make a contribution to the society, not just take from it. This is an early chapter in your book of life. I sincerely pray for you that Victoria's loss will not be in vain. Let this tragic circumstance catapult you to even greater goals that you can imagine today. That you will dig in and dig deep to meet the challenge of becoming a great man. A man who will bring honor to Victoria, to make up in some way for one you so can carelessly have taken from all of us. Let the story of your life proclaim to all that you understood the gravity of your actions and that you did all in your power to be a credit to society. Only that will satisfy me.

[Mike Boudet]

The forgiveness and the compassion that Victoria's family showed in the court was truly remarkable. Far more than they would have gotten from from me, that's for sure. The guilty pleas were entered and the Impact statements were made. All that was left was for a judge to deliver a sentence.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

The pain that you heard from them, indescribable. I can't. I got. I get angry listening to it. So I don't know if I could be as forgiving as they are. Do you understand? Give. Do you understand that you took a mother of children your age, your same age that you took their mother? Do you understand that? A wife, sister, and that's a void that can never be filled for them. Now you're going to have some time to sit in dys. And you understand that, right? But you understand you're getting a second chance here because they are forgiving. You understand that, correct? Yes, you, Honor. You understand and you understand that that's not an option that Mrs. Schaefer had, correct? You're getting a second chance that she did not get it.

[Mike Boudet]

In the end, both Jordan Buckley and Jaden Churches were sentenced to just three years in juvenile detention. A slap on the wrist if there ever was one. As for the biggest question of all, who actually threw the log? The truth is no one seems to know. Investigators couldn't prove it either way. And neither Jaden nor Jordan ever admitted to it in court. Maybe Jaden did it, maybe Jordan did it. Maybe they both did. Or maybe that detail doesn't matter as much as we think, because at the end of the day, both teenagers were legally responsible. Both of them made a choice to move, shove, kick, roll, or throw a 75 pound log off a cliff. A log that came crashing down with enough force to shatter a skull and take Victoria Shaffer's life in an instant. And both were held accountable in a way that reflected the wishes of Victoria's family. So what else is there to do? The conclusion of this case doesn't come with a whole lot of satisfaction, that's for sure. It's messy, but usually murder is messy. There are still unanswered questions and the whole thing feels unfinished. But sometimes that's the only justice there is. And sometimes, you know, that's just life. Can't believe this is our 13th year. It's absolute madness. I did not think this is how my life was gonna go. Let's put it that way. Anyway, thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for being a fan, a Lister supporter, whatever, any little thing you guys do, we appreciate, I promise you, even if it's just hitting a, like button on a video or leaving a comment. It's all very much appreciated. Thank you so much for being here. I hope 2026 is a wonderful year for all of you.

[Interviewer or Investigator]

With you.