← Talk Shop with Ariel Okin: A Fenimore Lane Production
Talk Shop with Ariel Okin: A Fenimore Lane Production
How to Complete a Room with Lighting // Live from the Fenimore Lane Design Summit
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- [00:01]
Ariel Okun
Welcome to Talkshop. I'm Ariel Okun, a New York based interior designer, writer and editor looking to bring a little bit of magic into our homes every day. After years as a writer and editor in the interiors world, I founded my own editorial site, Fettermore Lane in 2020 and the TalkShop interview series was born. Each week I delve into the personal experiences of the top interior designers and tastemakers around the globe in our final episode for the season. Live from the Fenimore Lane Design Summit held at the Mayflower Inn and Spa, I'm joined by fellow mitzi tastemaker Anthony D'Argenzio of Zeon Suns, along with our moderator, Lux Magazine's Grace Booli Hunt. In this conversation, we touch on the how to's on decorative lighting and how we've styled some of the most popular fixtures from our Mitzi Tastemaker collections.
- [00:49]
Grace Buley Hunt
Welcome to today's second panel. Today we are going to be talking about lighting. Our last panel was on color and I feel like color and lighting are two things that are just not easy. You think they are and there's a lot of nuance and you gotta ask the pros if you wanna do it right. I'm Grace Buley, Hun Luxe Interior and Design magazine's home and design editor, and I'm so excited to be here moderating with Anthony D'Argenzio and Ariel Okun. So before we start, I just would like if you could tell our audience in your own words who you are, what your business is, where you live in this world, and what brings you here today. So Anthony, let's start with you.
- [01:25]
Anthony D'Argenzio
Sure. Hi everybody. My name is Anthony D'Argenzio. I live in Hudson, New York, which is in upstate New York in the Hudson Valley. I am a designer, creative, an entrepreneur, jack of kind of all trades, but I currently work in the real estate industry and work in the design and home interior world segment. I have a line with Mitzi. Think that's me.
- [01:50]
Grace Buley Hunt
Real renaissance man.
- [01:51]
Ariel Okun
Well, I'm Ariel Okun. I am an interior designer. I'm also the founder and editor of Phantom Orlean, which, which is the company that brought all of this to everyone today. I also have a line with Mitzi. This is one of our lamps, the Clarendon lamp from my collection with Mitzi. And I'm just so thrilled to be here today. It's so fun watching everybody attend all these events.
- [02:13]
Grace Buley Hunt
It's fun for us too. Thank you for bringing us all here, Ariel. So yes, the common thread between these guys, in addition to being designers is that they have these beautiful collaborations with Mitzi. And Mitzi, thank you so much for hosting today's conversation. So we're going to talk about their collections, we're going to talk about lighting do's and don'ts. And we're hoping you guys are going to leave with some really great takeaways. So I'd like to start with some foundational questions to help the audience get to know you a bit better. So, Ariel, can you start by telling us about your collection with Mitzi? Because it really is an embodiment of your firm's aesthetic. And I know that kind of the initial inspiration was that you said you noticed a gap in the traditional home market for these kinds of pieces at this kind of price point. So can you tell me a bit about how it kind of came to be? Yeah, just like the story that really inspired that collection.
- [03:03]
Ariel Okun
Yeah, absolutely. So one of the reasons why I find doing a license collection so exciting is because you can fill in that gap in the market that you have found. So for me, that was traditional lighting at an affordable price point. And Mitzi does lighting so beautifully. It really accessible price points. And so I was thrilled to go on this journey with Mitzi. It was a two year process of design. I brought lots and lots and lots of reference images and hand sketches and all kinds of stuff over to them. And they beautifully, beautifully translated our inspiration into our collection. And there's a bunch of different pieces from sconces to art lights and picture lights to table lamps and chandeliers. And there's one chandelier named after the town that I grew up in, which is what, Gladwin. Yeah, it was just a wonderful experience working with Mitzi. And just the whole process, from A to Z of watching an idea in your head turn into a physical product that can live in someone's house, I think is one of the coolest things that I've experienced.
- [04:08]
Grace Buley Hunt
And how would you describe the common thread? Like what is like if the collection was like, in a few words, our.
- [04:15]
Ariel Okun
Aesthetic, I always say, is sort of like traditional with a twist. So we are rooted in classicism and traditional design, but with an edge of contemporary, whether it's the way that we juxtapose contemporary art or photography over a really more classic English roll arm sofa. And so I really wanted that juxtaposition in our collection. So there are pieces that feel a little bit more modern and then there are pieces that feel a little bit more traditional. This one's on the more traditional side, but I do like the empire shade because it gives it a little edge.
- [04:47]
Grace Buley Hunt
Yeah, definitely. It's a little old mate's new. Is that your favorite piece?
- [04:51]
Ariel Okun
It is, yeah. I love this piece.
- [04:52]
Grace Buley Hunt
It's beautiful. And how about you, Anthony? I know sense of place really inspired your collection as well. And you're in the Hudson Valley. So tell us a little bit more about the Hudson Valley kind of informing the design directive and how your collection came to life.
- [05:06]
Anthony D'Argenzio
Yeah, I was actually born and raised in California and moved to New York City and felt like I was drawn to New York just because of the like old soulness to it and the history and the architecture and didn't know a lot about the Hudson Valley until being in New York City and started going up to New York Hudson by the train because as all New York City people, no cars, so like where can I go? So I started just taking the train up north and discovered Hudson really from like the antique world and the amazing architecture and the history and was really just drawn to the town itself has like over 100 different styles of architecture and if you've never been, it's quite beautiful and eye candy. So ping ponging between New York City and Hudson in particular. I started just renovating different properties and starting my career more as like a stylist and creative director in New York City. Using interiors, real estate really as like canvases for creating interesting spaces and really being inspired by the building itself versus like I always led like the structure kind of guide the overall aesthetic of the whatever project I was working on. And the same went for my line with Mitzi. So thinking of working with older buildings and properties but bringing it into a modern fresh way. And I feel like Mitzi does a really great job of that because it's a refreshing brand at a really great price point but like still has a lot of influence of heritage and quality materials and history. So my line was very much inspired by classic silhouettes and different eras of architecture styles and design. So there's a little art nouveau, mid century industrial kind of nods to all the different pieces. So like a classic sphere but with like very ornate kind of like little details that I was very kind of inspired by. And then another light, actually named after my daughter Havana was a classic art nouveau, like the Squiggly line, but done in a felt very fresh and new with a sphere in the middle. So the line is eclectic I would say, but also could lean classic but also fresh and could go in a contemporary or an old home.
- [07:41]
Grace Buley Hunt
So I was very architecturally inspired.
- [07:43]
Anthony D'Argenzio
Architecturally inspired, definitely.
- [07:45]
Grace Buley Hunt
So cool.
- [07:45]
Anthony D'Argenzio
Yeah.
- [07:45]
Grace Buley Hunt
What about this one?
- [07:46]
Anthony D'Argenzio
Yeah, this one is just more the subtle details. So the body of it is. It's obviously a classic mushroom shape, but the body is a crackled ceramic. So it's all about the subtle variation of the glaze and then a classic or, like, shiny pop of brass to elevate a space. And then there's these two little cute pull chains versus one.
- [08:12]
Grace Buley Hunt
You're, like, in love with this lamp.
- [08:13]
Anthony D'Argenzio
I do love this lamp. It just. Yeah, it's a little fun and like a little piece of jewelry for a room.
- [08:19]
Grace Buley Hunt
It's beautiful. I love that these are here because I feel like they really help people understand your lighting sensibilities and, like, your aesthetics without you having to say anything. So glad these are here. So to be approached to design a lighting collection, you obviously have to know how to light a room and have some chops there. So I want to talk about how to do that properly. So, I mean, we've all been in poorly lit rooms and they really don't feel good. And I'd love to know as designers and Anthony especially, like, with your, like, real estate side to the business as well, like optimizing lighting to make people want to buy a house. You know, when does lighting enter the picture? Is there a formula? Is it always one of the first elements? Is it an afterthought that takes a lot of love and care? Like, how do you guys each approach your lighting design? Anthony, do you want to start?
- [09:07]
Anthony D'Argenzio
Yeah, sure. Well, two stages of lighting. So, like, I'll do. When I'm doing my own interior design, I'll consider that more. A little bit more thoughtful for my clients in a real estate world, because it's more like you're almost like editing a home or, like, trying to make it its best in a cost effective way.
- [09:23]
Grace Buley Hunt
Sure.
- [09:24]
Anthony D'Argenzio
So I think when you're designing a room and you're considering the factors of the lighting, it's important to think of, like, what influences of natural light you have, how the room is going to be used, obviously. And you know, how you like the feeling you want to evoke when you're in the space and the lights are on or they're off. So all of those pieces together will kind of inform, like, all right, I want a statement chandelier, or I want something a little bit less. I really want to be functional and not hit my head. So I want everything, like, the ceilings are short, so I want it to go something higher to the ceiling or a ceiling mount. So first figuring out, like, what you want the room to Feel like I think is the most important thing. And then the function aspect, and then you could bring in the creativity elements of whatever your design style is or your finish of the fixture. I think it's important to have that, like, tell a story and a symphony and make it feel effortless at the same time. So it's a little bit of a challenge at times, especially if you're working in an old house with short ceilings or old wiring and you're really just trying to utilize what's there already. But for clients, a lot of the time when I'm, you know, so I have two brands. Zio and Sons is my design firm with the Mitzi line. And then this old Hudson is my real estate practice where we stage style and also have a team of agents where we sell luxury homes in the Hudson Valley. So as a designer, clients are constantly trying to pick my brain when they're preparing a home to sell. Like, what do I do here, what do I do there? Staging, styling, pink colors, lighting. And lighting is a really big one because especially with a home that feels aged or, you know, maybe outdated, lighting is a really great tool to use to make it feel fresh, but also create value and make it feel special and artistic. So, like, in a kitchen that feels maybe, you know, tired, putting in a nice light fixture could really elevate it pretty effortlessly.
- [11:33]
Grace Buley Hunt
I mean, I guess it sounds like very case specific, whether you're doing like a major renovation or you're just kind of putting some, like, chic lipstick on something. But I mean, in general, like, where does it come in? Are you doing a lighting design before you have your paint colors and your furniture selects? Like, is it one of, like, the leading considerations? Are you more approaching it as kind of like, you know, the garnish on the space?
- [11:56]
Anthony D'Argenzio
Yeah, I mean, I'm not doing a ton of residential design for clients anymore. Most of my practice is spent on doing my own renovations and, you know, flips and, you know, projects where I'm putting my name behind and then my licensing product design collaborations. And then a lot of the design that I'm influencing people on is like, preparing a home to sell or even doing like, full, like, if they're doing a full gut renovation, where I come in pretty early on, and I'm saying, here's the palette that I think, you know, from a resale perspective, I think is going to do really well.
- [12:30]
Grace Buley Hunt
Right.
- [12:31]
Anthony D'Argenzio
But also make it feel interesting through lighting. So I'm doing pretty early on, like from before, where the socket even goes in the wall to at the very tail end or, you know, in a spot where they're just trying to get the top dollar for the property and you're kind of working backwards or like, all right, here's the spots you have placements on. You should use this type of fixture. So it's really a mix, but it's really important. And in any stage of your life, you could include new lighting.
- [13:02]
Grace Buley Hunt
So I do feel like it's such an impactful change that isn't necessarily a huge change to a space. Ariel, how about you? How do you approach lighting design in your projects? Is it. Is it different or do you have a formula?
- [13:15]
Ariel Okun
It depends on what stage we're coming in at. I really love getting in on ground up builds and gut renovations because we can create our own lighting plans. And that's really exciting to me. So being able to do the electrical walkthrough with the architect and say, this is where the sconces are going to go and this is how. And I hate can lights, so I try to minimize using them as much as I can. Nobody looks good in down lighting. So, you know, those considerations are important to me. And I always like to put everything on dimmer, so I make sure that that's, you know, hardwired at the beginning of a project. You know, ideally it's nice when we get in on that ground level, but we have a project in Cape Cod right now that was built in the early 2000. It has. I mean, the ceiling literally looks like a constellation of stoners of like, hi, hats. And we are fixing it. So it doesn't, you know, that's not to say that, like, if you have a preexisting structure that's already wired and done, that you can't fix that. So. And electricians are wonderful resources for what you can and can't do.
- [14:19]
Grace Buley Hunt
Absolutely. Well, I'd like to kind of veer off of that question with you, Ariel. Like, if someone was paying you for a mini consult, you're going to give out some free advice today. But I mean, if you're bewildered by lighting design, you don't know task ambient. You don't know what you want. You don't even know aesthetically what you're gravitating towards, which I imagine a lot of your clients are coming to you, kind of not knowing where to begin. So, like, where do you start? What's your advice to somebody who just, like, needs to get their lighting figured out?
- [14:47]
Ariel Okun
Yeah, I mean, the way that I like to approach lighting is you need to have it coming from multiple heights and multiple sources. So you need some sconce lighting. One overhead is nice. I prefer like one decorative overhead fixture and then like floor and task lamps. So, you know, lamps like these table lamps. Just having it undulate throughout the room so that nobody's getting hit from one very hard angle.
- [15:13]
Grace Buley Hunt
Just different levels of light.
- [15:14]
Ariel Okun
Different levels of light. And then also making sure that everything is dimmable. I'm really big.
- [15:20]
Grace Buley Hunt
What if dim is not in the cards? Like, you rent an apartment like me? Like, what about, like, wattage?
- [15:25]
Ariel Okun
So I, when I lived in the city, rented the whole time. I lived there for like 11 years and I installed dimmers.
- [15:31]
Grace Buley Hunt
Oh, wow.
- [15:32]
Ariel Okun
Yeah, they're not just like, ask your.
- [15:33]
Grace Buley Hunt
Landlord, like, hey, can I do this for you?
- [15:35]
Ariel Okun
They're not expensive. You can get them from like Lutron. They're not like, hard to do.
- [15:39]
Anthony D'Argenzio
And you know they have like apps for like light bulbs and stuff.
- [15:41]
Ariel Okun
Yeah, they have apps for. They have smart light bulbs so you can like do it on your phone. Very cool.
- [15:46]
Grace Buley Hunt
What a world.
- [15:47]
Ariel Okun
Yeah.
- [15:49]
Grace Buley Hunt
Anthony, I kind of. I mean, that's a good lead into this question for you. I have a quote here from you, which is that if lighting is done right, it lasts a long time and it improves your property value. So I'd love to know, like, what that actually looks like. If I'm selling my house, what are you telling me to do with my lighting? To improve its resale value, you have.
- [16:08]
Anthony D'Argenzio
To use the Zio and Sons collection. I'm Betsy. I think, you know, if you're buying a mid century home in Palm Springs or I'm not selling mid century homes in Palm Springs, but one day from an example of like following the inspiration, like leading the inspiration from the architecture style. So if you're picking a fixture and a style that's going to like age well versus going to maybe adventurous or like maybe mixing of metals in a weird way or things that just feel off or like, if it feels avant garde to you now imagine how that's going to feel in three years to someone that might not have the same style as you. So just being a little cautious in regard to your styles. Obviously you still want to feel fun and creative and fresh, but I think it's important to just pick pieces that age well. Just good quality materials. You know, I think brass is just like a timeless finish that I'm still surprised. It just unluckily. Yeah, it just keeps going and going.
- [17:11]
Ariel Okun
Don't lacquer your brass.
- [17:13]
Grace Buley Hunt
You heard it here.
- [17:14]
Anthony D'Argenzio
Yeah.
- [17:15]
Ariel Okun
Let it develop a patina.
- [17:17]
Anthony D'Argenzio
Yeah. Let it develop a patina is right. So I think just classic shapes, classic finishes, and letting that just do its job and don't overthink it. You don't have to. Like, if you're not. If you're not a designer or a design expert, don't go crazy and, like, pick the most adventurous thing.
- [17:37]
Ariel Okun
Because classic is classic for a reason, especially when it comes to homes. I think it's the biggest investment oftentimes that people make. And so going down a trend wormhole is never a good idea, I think.
- [17:50]
Grace Buley Hunt
But on the flip side, like, has there ever been.
- [17:54]
Ariel Okun
I'm a market editor.
- [17:56]
Grace Buley Hunt
Has there ever been a time when there was, like, a really memorable fixture that you think, like, sold a house? Like, is there ever. Is there a time for statement lighting when you are.
- [18:07]
Ariel Okun
I think statement doesn't have to mean it's not classic, too. There's a really gorgeous vintage toll fixture that we found recently at Antique and Artisan in Stanford that's just unbelievable. And it's so unique and. But it could have lived in the 18th century and it could live now, you know? So, like, it doesn't. Just because something's classic doesn't mean that it's not unique or interesting.
- [18:29]
Grace Buley Hunt
Totally. Like, we talk about at the magazine lot, like, what really doesn't go out of style? Like, what's the one piece that's just, like, always looks good? We always come back to the Nakashima lantern light. It just looks good in every room.
- [18:39]
Ariel Okun
Totally. It's just, like, also the. Like, I think a bell jar lantern is just so classic.
- [18:45]
Grace Buley Hunt
Oh, yeah. Especially with that marble.
- [18:46]
Ariel Okun
And celery did something really cool. If you want to really look at details. Celery Campbell designed this hotel, and she wrapped this, like, marbleized paper around each candle holder, which is so cool.
- [18:57]
Grace Buley Hunt
It's all in the details. It's so good.
- [18:59]
Anthony D'Argenzio
I mean, think about classic. Like, what is the original fixture? Like a gas lantern.
- [19:04]
Grace Buley Hunt
Yeah. Still looks good.
- [19:06]
Anthony D'Argenzio
Still looking good.
- [19:07]
Ariel Okun
So true.
- [19:08]
Anthony D'Argenzio
300 years later.
- [19:09]
Ariel Okun
Yeah.
- [19:09]
Anthony D'Argenzio
And it still feels fresh.
- [19:11]
Grace Buley Hunt
It really does. So get the look. Talking about, like, how to recreate your mood at home, Ariel. I mean, besides getting that beautiful lamp? But if people are trying to kind of bring this traditional with a twist sensibility into their home via lighting, like, accepting actual fixtures, like, what do you recommend? Is it kind of like classic shapes, classic finishes?
- [19:33]
Ariel Okun
I think traditional with a twist can go either way in terms of lighting, because you could either bring the traditional in with a really beautiful chinoiserie lamp, or you go modern with the lighting. And that's your twist. So it can kind of go either way. And my house kind of shows both of that. Like, I have some really, really classic pieces in my house. Like lanterns like this. And I have. I have this in my house. But then I also have some really angular white plaster modern fixtures in my house in a very formal dining room.
- [20:03]
Grace Buley Hunt
So the three lamps in your house are plastered?
- [20:06]
Ariel Okun
I have a lot of. I have a lot of, like, I have a chinoiserie vintage lamp in my family room that I really love. I love oversized lighting, too. Like, I think an oversized lamp is really something that has some chunkiness and some weight to it. Can really make a statement in a beautiful way and hold the ground around it visually nicely. I love white plaster. We use a lot of white plaster. And you can use it in so many different ways. Like, it could look modern depending on the shape, or it can look traditional. And I love a glass bell jar. Like, those are sort of my.
- [20:36]
Grace Buley Hunt
Yeah. Just can't go wrong. Yeah. I want to circle back to scale because that was a really good note. Like, undersized lighting is like one of the cardinal sins, and getting the scale right is really hard sometimes. If it's like a huge space or a very small space.
- [20:50]
Ariel Okun
Yeah.
- [20:50]
Grace Buley Hunt
Do you have any, like, real rules of thumb for sizing a light properly that you can share?
- [20:56]
Ariel Okun
I mean, I think when you're lighting something like art, like an art light, it needs to go wider than the art. Like, you know, art light needs to.
- [21:03]
Grace Buley Hunt
Be wider than the art itself.
- [21:06]
Ariel Okun
Wow. Yeah.
- [21:07]
Grace Buley Hunt
Okay.
- [21:09]
Ariel Okun
So, you know, I think when you get things like scale wrong, those are the little imperceivable things that can make a room feel off. Table lamps, I think, are really up to you. I think it's like whatever feels right to you. I don't think there's a right or a wrong, but, like, you need seven foot clearance. We always do seven feet of clearance above to make sure that people aren't going to hit their heads on things from overhead lighting.
- [21:32]
Grace Buley Hunt
Yep, yep.
- [21:33]
Ariel Okun
Not that anybody is seven feet in my house. I'm 4:10, so.
- [21:37]
Grace Buley Hunt
But that's a good rule of thumb. Like seven feet. Do not hang your fixture lower than that. Yeah, that's a good tip. What do you have anything to add to that, Anthony, in terms of, like, scaling properly?
- [21:47]
Anthony D'Argenzio
Yeah, I think scale is important, like, obviously depending on the size of the room and all that. But another, like, important thing, especially when you're working with. If you like old things and it's hard to find reproductions in multiple Being able to scale it in the sense of having multiple. That match. So I think knowing where to place multiple fixtures in a room is really an art in itself. Of, like, where do the. Like, if you have a wall of three sconces, like, how much space between the wall or where to put the pendants is really important. People will either put them too close or, like, not at the right height. I think really, like one loan. Yeah. One weird, like, spot.
- [22:30]
Grace Buley Hunt
So I think they always need a friend, right?
- [22:32]
Ariel Okun
Yeah, they need a friend.
- [22:33]
Anthony D'Argenzio
Considering the factors of, like, head space, counter height, where's your art like before you just start plopping away with fixtures, figuring out what else is going to be living in that space because you want it to feel like. And I always think 3 is better than 4 or 5 is better than 6.
- [22:51]
Ariel Okun
Yeah.
- [22:52]
Anthony D'Argenzio
Odds feel more natural, especially visually when you're in a room. Like, if it's too even, it feels like some cookie cutter, like, like contractor made that decision or something.
- [23:02]
Ariel Okun
M10 always says that to me whenever we're like, shooting something and she's styling, she's like, never do something in pairs.
- [23:08]
Anthony D'Argenzio
Yeah.
- [23:09]
Ariel Okun
Like, always one off.
- [23:10]
Grace Buley Hunt
Rule of threes.
- [23:11]
Ariel Okun
I mean, the rule of threes is like an art role for a reason, right? Yeah.
- [23:15]
Grace Buley Hunt
Good tip.
- [23:16]
Ariel Okun
Yeah.
- [23:17]
Grace Buley Hunt
Anthony, I want to talk about staging, and you were, like, mentioning, you know, making something, like, shootable or Instagram worthy. Anthony's an amazing Instagram follow, by the way. Do you have any moves or gestures or tricks? Like, when you're trying to get like, the hero shot of a space? Like, what lighting just, like, looks editorial worthy.
- [23:35]
Anthony D'Argenzio
I think, like, back to where you're saying, like, multi dimensional, you want, like, heights and angles. Like, try to shoot things like here, not here, or not.
- [23:46]
Grace Buley Hunt
You don't want, like, not from under.
- [23:48]
Anthony D'Argenzio
The rule of thirds. Like, if you're thinking of, like, a helpful tip for your phone is putting the grid on and it separates the sections of your phone into three even spaces. And when you're shooting interiors or really anything, you want the even amount of space for your floor and the ceiling and like, whatever subject you're shooting. So, like, if you just follow that rule of thirds and like, spacing looks even. I think it's just more enjoyable on the eye. Like, you don't want too much of one thing. Or, like, don't get. Don't try to get too creative because your eye is like. People are drawn to certain aesthetics for certain reasons because of, like, human nature. So don't try to get too crazy with your angles.
- [24:32]
Grace Buley Hunt
Don't get naturally.
- [24:33]
Ariel Okun
I mean, if you're shooting a room, natural light.
- [24:34]
Anthony D'Argenzio
Yeah.
- [24:35]
Ariel Okun
And turn all your lights off when you're shooting your room.
- [24:37]
Grace Buley Hunt
Always, always follow up question to that. When you're staging, is there one fixture maybe outside of your own? Because we know those are the most beautiful, but is there like one that you kind of go back to again and again, like one light fixture that just always looks really good and it's.
- [24:51]
Anthony D'Argenzio
Always a hit when you're shooting like interiors or like creative spaces, I always think it's like best to just honestly, the funkier, the weirder things, the better. Like, you obviously want like a classic thing, but like a pop or something or like something that looks. It doesn't have to be lighting, but like having a unique thing. So like, I like to work with a lot of antique and vintage objects and even light fixtures. So having a mix of new lighting and old lighting is really important to make your home feel eclectic and not like a catalog. So those are the best spaces, I think, where it feels it's got a nice story of things. You can't have everything old and you can't have everything new. But if you could have, you know, maybe 60% new lighting and some beautiful ceramics and antique, maybe an like a light fixture that doesn't even work, but like it's just made to make it adds character. So I think that's really important. Doesn't have to be like that one special piece, but I think you need that one special object or that one special thing to say, oh, I've never seen that. Or that feels special.
- [25:57]
Grace Buley Hunt
Yes. In the mix. So I'd love if you could each share a favorite project that really allowed you to play with lighting. Like a memorable lighting moment from your life and maybe any lessons you learned from it. Arielle, we can start with you.
- [26:12]
Ariel Okun
One of my most recent favorite projects is a ground up build that we just installed in March. So we did the lighting plan for that with the architect and that was really, really wonderful. I love doing ground up builds for that reason because we can really dial in on how we want this to adjust throughout the day. What are we thinking about for dinner parties? Like, how is this going to function? So I think that's really exciting and I really love being able to do the lighting plan with the architect. I think that's really fun.
- [26:42]
Grace Buley Hunt
Yeah. And I mean, the proof is in the pudding. If it's custom, custom, custom, it's going to be good. How about you, Anthony? Any memorable lighting projects of late?
- [26:51]
Anthony D'Argenzio
I recently renovated my own home which was a totally off brand for me. A 1970s log cabin.
- [26:58]
Grace Buley Hunt
Oh, wow.
- [26:59]
Anthony D'Argenzio
And log houses don't have drywall. Did you know that everything is surface mounted? There's, like. Yeah. So, like, designing lighting in a structure like that is nearly impossible.
- [27:12]
Ariel Okun
Yeah.
- [27:13]
Anthony D'Argenzio
So I had to get very creative and, like, embrace mixing of metals, but also, like, conduit. Like, leaning into having things be exposed and, like, being quirky, I think is interesting. So, like, in that project, we had all these, like, beams, and I wanted, like, good lighting because it felt, you know, dark and log cabin y. So using, you know, conduit that was exposed, mixing of old and new, it somehow came together. But, like, it was a. It was a challenge both aesthetically and, like, from a design perspective.
- [27:51]
Grace Buley Hunt
Yeah, that's a brain bender. Can we see pictures of this somewhere?
- [27:53]
Anthony D'Argenzio
The New York Times.
- [27:55]
Grace Buley Hunt
Ooh, fancy. Okay, well, should have brought a poster board.
- [28:01]
Ariel Okun
Casual.
- [28:02]
Grace Buley Hunt
So one more question, and then we'll move to lightning round, and then we can open it up for your burning lighting questions. But I'd love if you could each share a cardinal do and a cardinal don't of lighting for our audience. Ariel.
- [28:14]
Ariel Okun
A cardinal do is install dimmers, and the cardinal don't is don't put high hats in your ceiling.
- [28:21]
Grace Buley Hunt
Nice and simple. How about you, Anthony?
- [28:23]
Anthony D'Argenzio
Do use wall sconces? I think it's great for a room just even if you have the height, just adds a lot of depth to a space. Don't install LED fluorescent bulbs.
- [28:39]
Ariel Okun
Yes.
- [28:40]
Grace Buley Hunt
That's my new apartment I moved into two days ago. And, like, I never have overhead on anyway, like, Walgreens.
- [28:45]
Anthony D'Argenzio
Every bulb is, like, fluorescent at this point.
- [28:47]
Ariel Okun
So, yeah, there's this hot tip. There's a store by the DND that, like, has a surplus.
- [28:52]
Anthony D'Argenzio
The warm one.
- [28:53]
Ariel Okun
Yeah.
- [28:53]
Anthony D'Argenzio
Yeah. If you're gonna do, like, there's, like, one bulb at Home Depot that's, like, warm temperature.
- [29:00]
Ariel Okun
Yeah.
- [29:01]
Grace Buley Hunt
You know what?
- [29:02]
Anthony D'Argenzio
It's so bad.
- [29:02]
Ariel Okun
Annie actually has a great on her AMA's highlight. Has a great guide to Kelvin Bottage and, like, what to buy. And she links. Links the bulb. 27. Yeah, like 2750, I think.
- [29:16]
Grace Buley Hunt
Also, this is Annie.
- [29:18]
Ariel Okun
Annie Meyershard in the previous panel.
- [29:21]
Grace Buley Hunt
This Oak house is her Instagram. If you want to go check out her lighting tips.
- [29:24]
Ariel Okun
She's a really good guide on Kelvin water.
- [29:27]
Anthony D'Argenzio
This is a whole topic in itself. The right light bulb is another huge thing.
- [29:32]
Ariel Okun
Cheap everything.
- [29:33]
Anthony D'Argenzio
Yeah. Light bulbs is a whole lot.
- [29:35]
Ariel Okun
This is the really fun stuff that we do all day.
- [29:38]
Grace Buley Hunt
Okay, so lightning round to close things out here if you could only use one lighting fixture for the rest of your days, what would it be, Anthony?
- [29:46]
Anthony D'Argenzio
I think honestly, just like a classic pendant, white shade, clean little bulb. Call it a day. I use it all the time.
- [29:55]
Grace Buley Hunt
Just a white shade, classic pendant.
- [29:57]
Anthony D'Argenzio
I mean like it's not in my collection, so don't get mad at me. But just like you could source like a French 1920s just disc with a clean, pretty bulb and like a wire. Like that's my favorite.
- [30:13]
Grace Buley Hunt
That sounds very chic. How about you, Ariel? One lighting fixture I love, like an.
- [30:17]
Ariel Okun
English style lantern, like a very like Georgian lantern is sort of my go to beautiful.
- [30:26]
Grace Buley Hunt
What do you consider to be the best lit room in the world? Like a real exemplar of lighting design.
- [30:31]
Ariel Okun
Definitely Bemelman's at the Carlisle.
- [30:34]
Grace Buley Hunt
Yeah, just a good mood.
- [30:35]
Ariel Okun
The walls and like that's another thing. I think lamp shades also are important and like a card sheet gives off a really nice glow and then everybody just looks nicer in it.
- [30:47]
Anthony D'Argenzio
Yeah. I think hospitality. You get so inspired by lighting. Like just hotel lobbies and like restaurants and like they go crazy with lighting.
- [30:55]
Grace Buley Hunt
Yeah, they're so memorable.
- [30:57]
Anthony D'Argenzio
Yeah.
- [30:57]
Grace Buley Hunt
What's yours, Anthony?
- [30:58]
Anthony D'Argenzio
I was thinking about that and this is hard, but I was thinking like where in New York City that has historic architecture with beautiful lighting. I don't know if you guys have seen the Swan room at 9 Orchard. That room, like the light fixtures are insane. The ceiling's insane. Did you know the room, it's so pretty.
- [31:20]
Grace Buley Hunt
Is that the main like bank teller space?
- [31:22]
Anthony D'Argenzio
Yeah, it's an old bank.
- [31:23]
Grace Buley Hunt
Yeah.
- [31:24]
Anthony D'Argenzio
And just Google it.
- [31:29]
Grace Buley Hunt
Okay.
- [31:30]
Ariel Okun
So funny.
- [31:31]
Anthony D'Argenzio
Or go and have a cocktail because.
- [31:33]
Ariel Okun
The space is really, really cool.
- [31:34]
Grace Buley Hunt
Even better.
- [31:35]
Ariel Okun
Yeah.
- [31:36]
Grace Buley Hunt
Okay. And the lighting trend that you'd love to see die forever.
- [31:40]
Anthony D'Argenzio
You go first.
- [31:41]
Ariel Okun
I mean, I'm like a broken record, but like, can't lighten. I hate it. If you can't tell.
- [31:47]
Grace Buley Hunt
What about track lighting?
- [31:48]
Ariel Okun
Oh yeah, no, no track lighting. Rip that out.
- [31:51]
Anthony D'Argenzio
There's. You could actually like. I had to do this for a project with Mitzi when I had a pop up in Hudson where you could actually. There's like little sockets you could just pop right into it and just take the electricity out of a track light. So they might be ugly, but you could rework it to make it work.
- [32:09]
Ariel Okun
Interesting.
- [32:09]
Anthony D'Argenzio
Yeah. So don't like if you're a renter and there's track lights, there's like a little like little adapter thing that you could like connect to it.
- [32:17]
Ariel Okun
Interesting.
- [32:18]
Anthony D'Argenzio
Yeah. So, okay.
- [32:20]
Grace Buley Hunt
The more you know and last but not least, lighting design. Words to live by.
- [32:25]
Ariel Okun
Keep it dim.
- [32:29]
Grace Buley Hunt
Anthony.
- [32:30]
Anthony D'Argenzio
Let the quality shine.
- [32:32]
Grace Buley Hunt
Oh, beautiful. Well, I think that wraps up our time. Thank you so much to our panelists, to our hosts, to the Mayflower for having this amazing space for us to talk about design and geek out together. Thank you all. Enjoy the day.
- [32:47]
Ariel Okun
Thank you so much. That's a wrap on season two of Talkshop. Thank you to every incredible guest who joined me this season. To all of you who have taken the time to listen to our show, we are so grateful and love seeing you share your favorite parts of each episode on Instagram. I'll be back in the fall with more thoughtful conversations about design and interiors. Please keep the feedback coming and send us suggestions for future guests. Have a wonderful summer. And I can't wait to be back with you all in the fall.