← Talk Shop with Ariel Okin: A Fenimore Lane Production
Talk Shop with Ariel Okin: A Fenimore Lane Production
Mandy Cheng // From Set Design to Interior Design, On Career Pivots, Creativity and Growing A Small Firm into an AD100 Business
00:37:49
Loading summary
Transcript242 lines
- [00:00]
A
I don't know if this still exists, but like grocery store coloring contests, I entered those every week and I won so many of them.
- [00:09]
B
The way that you deploy color is so beautiful and unique and I think it's such a hallmark of the way you design. Always just interested in, like, how kids, what your interests were as a child and how you end up finding your way toward what it is that you love to do.
- [00:24]
A
Well, I guess we can thank Kroger grocery store coloring contests for my career today.
- [00:31]
B
It's really funny. Welcome to Talkshop. I'm Arielle Okan, a New York based interior designer, writer and editor looking to bring a little bit of magic into our homes every day. After years as a writer and editor in the interiors world, I founded my own editorial site, Fenimore Lane, in 2020 and the Talk Shop interview series was born. Each week I delve into the personal experiences of the top interior designers and tastemakers around the globe. This week's guest cut her teeth on the fabulous sets of Hollywood before transitioning her set design experience into a career as one of the most sought after interior designers in la. Mandy Chang launched her solo design career first as a production and graphic designer in the film industry. You can find her design work in music videos for chart topping names such as J. Cole and One Republic, and her graphic design on projects ranging from 20th century women and Lady Bird to Beyonce's Lemonade. Mandy quickly realized she had a passion for interiors and she has received widespread acclaim. Her work on Daveed Diggs home landed the April 2021 cover of AD and she most recently designed Jesse Tyler Ferguson and Justin Nikita's home, which was also featured in AD and their fan favorite platform, Open Door. Since founding Mandy Chang Design, Mandy has been named to the prestigious AD100 list for three years in a row and has designed a wide range of spaces, including residential and commercial, all spanning the country. So please join me as we welcome Mandy to the podcast. Mandy, welcome to the podcast. I'm so excited to have you on.
- [02:06]
A
Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.
- [02:09]
B
Well, to kick off the conversation, we always ask everyone who comes on, can you describe your style in three words or less?
- [02:18]
A
I would say earthy, layered and comfortable.
- [02:23]
B
I think that tracks. I was looking at your portfolio earlier this morning and it's so beautiful and comfortable and like saturated and gorgeous, yummy colors. It's so pretty.
- [02:33]
A
Thank you so much.
- [02:34]
B
Yeah. And for those listening, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and where you are at this point in Your career right now, I guess. I know it's a big question.
- [02:44]
A
I've lived nine lives, so telling you, like, where I started and how I got here is a little. It's a journey.
- [02:52]
B
I know. I'm excited to talk about it because you have such a cool pivot into design.
- [02:57]
A
Thanks. I mean, as far as, like, what's going on right now, I am finishing up renovating my house. It has been a crazy process because we have lived in the house throughout the entire renovation.
- [03:09]
B
That's so tough.
- [03:10]
A
This was a. It was a hoarder's home when we purchased it. So it's not for the faint of heart. I will say that we hauled out. I mean, it was like, 10 truckloads.
- [03:20]
B
That's wild.
- [03:22]
A
Yeah. And that's like. After they emptied the home for us, when we got the keys.
- [03:28]
B
That's insane.
- [03:30]
A
But they left some stuff behind. And on the day that we got the keys for the house, I came to the house with, like, five dump trucks backing down our driveway. And I heard, like, tinkering noises.
- [03:43]
B
No.
- [03:44]
A
And so I freaked out. And I knew these guys. Cause I've used them at some of my projects. So they kind of, like, you know, escorted me down to where the noise was coming from. And some of the previous owners had broken in to continue gathering more items.
- [03:59]
B
That's so creepy.
- [04:00]
A
It was scary. I mean, obviously, you know, hoarding is an illness, and they just couldn't help themselves. So I felt really bad. But at the same time, like, I just needed the place to be cleaned out. Yeah, it was a lot. So, you know, during that portion of it, we were not living in the house, but we lived through the house while we resided. The exterior, there was no insulation, so we replaced all the windows, basically. Basically built plastic walls inside of the home. And that's how they redid all the siding and changed out all the windows while we were living here to, like, try to contain the dust.
- [04:35]
B
That's actually kind of fascinating.
- [04:37]
A
Yeah. So, anyway, we're almost done with that process. It's been a lot. My husband is like, never again. And I'm kind of like, well, this was kind of cool.
- [04:48]
B
Yeah. No, that's. Living through that is crazy. It's just. It's hard living through construction. I always try to explain to clients if they haven't done it before, if they're thinking about it, what a big decision that is, because sometimes it's unavoidable and you kind of have no choice. But I always want people to know what they're getting Themselves into when they are walking into living in a construction zone.
- [05:09]
A
I straight up tell my clients, you cannot live here during construction.
- [05:13]
B
Yeah.
- [05:13]
A
And you shouldn't. Right. Like you're breathing in a lot of dust and debris and all of these things. You know, my husband and I, he's an architect and you know, with me as a designer, we both kind of know what we're up against. So we knew what we could live through and what we shouldn't live through.
- [05:29]
B
Right.
- [05:29]
A
But like a client, they don't know what it's like. It's so invasive just having people coming in and out of your house all the time. You're always waking up at whatever hour to get your personal stuff done before people start parading through your home. So just in general, I will never, ever tell a client to live through construction.
- [05:47]
B
Yeah, no, it's. If you can avoid it, you definitely should.
- [05:51]
A
Yes.
- [05:51]
B
Well, can you walk us through your career so far because you have had such a cool path to becoming an interior designer. And you worked in film and tv, you did production design. What was your first job and sort of, how did you get from there to where you are now?
- [06:07]
A
My first job after college, I worked at a footwear company as customer service.
- [06:13]
B
Oh.
- [06:14]
A
So that was my first corporate job. Then I went into the mortgage industry. I think somewhere in there I did like marketing as well, went into the mortgage industry. This was when like everything was kind of crashing.
- [06:28]
B
Yeah.
- [06:29]
A
And then I think I bounced back into footwear very briefly. And then I ended up over at Dreamworks Animation. I have and had a lot of friends that worked in animation at studios. So my ex is now an animation director, but he was a storyboard artist at the time. So we just kind of ran around with a lot of people that were artists working at various studios. So working at DreamWorks, I was in production. So basically, you know, managing artists and coordinating meetings and that kind of stuff. While I was there, I met a group of friends who had come from film school and so on the side, you know, like on the weekends or whenever we had time, we would go and shoot stuff together. So they would have their personal projects or get hired for small jobs. And I started to help with various things, like whether it was wardrobe or makeup or production design. And you know, this is like a five person crew. So it's kind of wherever you're needed, you go and do the thing.
- [07:27]
B
Right.
- [07:28]
A
And I really enjoyed production design and, you know, the production started to get bigger and bigger. And so then I started to get hired as a production Designer for these like tiny little side gigs and really loved it at the same time that all of this was. So I was doing all this freelance while also working at DreamWorks Animation. Simultaneous to all of this, my now ex and I broke up. I'm being very, very candid here.
- [07:53]
B
I love hearing these types of stories because the non linear paths are so interesting and all of the skills, hard and soft, that you gain from each job lends itself to where you end up in design. So I just think it's so interesting.
- [08:10]
A
Oh, absolutely. I mean, I think there's so much that I learned in corporate, I mean, even at, you know, at mortgage industries that taught me kind of how to work with all different personalities today.
- [08:23]
B
Yeah, I'm sure. And customer service, working in the footwear industry. I mean, what is interior design if not a customer service job?
- [08:30]
A
Exactly.
- [08:31]
B
It's so fascinating.
- [08:33]
A
So we broke up. I decided that I wanted to get out of DreamWorks Animation for obvious reasons, and just kind of decided one day, like, okay, I'm going to do production design full time. And I had saved up enough, I think it was like two or three months worth to be able to pay my bills. And so like within that designated timeline, I had to get paid work. So I just hustled and I knew enough people in LA to kind of get the word out. And that's kind of how I got into production design. I had kind of been doing graphic design since college, like kind of on my own. I did take classes at Art center, so I kind of just like knew my way around graphic design. So I started to do that as well. And that really supplemented my production design career as that first started, you know, to grow.
- [09:26]
B
Were you like an arty kid? Like, were you always interested in art as a kid growing up? Was it something you did? Sort of like to relax?
- [09:34]
A
I always liked color and paper and glue. Yeah, it wasn't necessarily art. Like, my brother was actually a much better artist, you know, than I ever was as far as like actual illustration goes. But I think we were both, we were both just very creative kids and we just kind of loved to do all of these things that involved like, colors and art, like I always did. I don't know if this still exists, but like grocery store coloring contests.
- [10:03]
B
Oh my God. That's amazing.
- [10:05]
A
I'm embarrassed to admit this. I remember it was like every week or every month because, you know, your concept of time is so different when you're a kid. But let's just say it was weekly. I entered those every week and I won so many of them.
- [10:18]
B
Well, you can see in your work, I mean, you're. The way that you deploy color is so beautiful and unique. And I think it's such a hallmark of the way you design. So I think that's really fascinating. I'm always interested in like how kids, like what your interests were as a child and how, you know, you end up finding your way toward what it is that you love to do.
- [10:40]
A
Well, I guess we can thank Kroger grocery store coloring contest for my career.
- [10:48]
B
It's really funny. So you ended up in production design and then in 2012 you branched out into interior design. And that over a decade ago, what was that first step to take on clients? And how did you sort of realize that that was the world you wanted to step a toe into?
- [11:04]
A
It was kind of a gradual process. So obviously I was, you know, full fledged in production design and graphic design at the time. I had started dating my now husband Rory. And I think just the early stages of dating and being in the live action commercial and television world, it's just, it's like, it's a crazy life. So it's just not conducive for a standard schedule. And I think Rory kind of saw the toll it was taking on me. We could never make plans. I always needed to be available. I always felt obligated to be on call. Not that anybody ever asked that of me. But you know, if you're not available for the job, somebody else is.
- [11:44]
B
Yeah.
- [11:45]
A
And then maybe you're no longer the first call for the next job, you know.
- [11:49]
B
Right, Totally.
- [11:51]
A
So that combined with him being an architect and kind of seeing all of this and saying like, well, what if you did something that's a little more longer lasting? And he had a friend of a friend that needed help with a two story condo that he had just purchased. And it was such an overwhelming job for him to renovate it and furnish it, that he was like, you know, I can put you guys in touch with each other and you can help him with this condo. And that can be kind of your first step into interior design. See, if you like it, I can help you out, you know, like walk you through what is needed and you know. Yeah, the aesthetics, it's just going to have to be like you and your intuition.
- [12:27]
B
Yeah.
- [12:28]
A
So it's kind of like a crash course in interior design. And my first project was a full gut renovation of a two story condo.
- [12:35]
B
That's so cool and also so nice.
- [12:38]
A
It's crazy. Like now thinking back on it, ignorance is bliss. But it was great. And again, like, I had a lot of help. Right. Like, Rory was helping me. Obviously, the GC was there to kind of ask all the questions that I wasn't answering. But it went pretty smoothly, and I loved the results. The homeowner was super happy just to have, you know, he was able to actually, like, move in. And I loved that because, you know, the end result of a shoot is that you then just tear it down and then you walk away and you go on to the next thing. So it's just a very, very different experience. And I really loved that.
- [13:13]
B
I also love that your first foray was, like, kind of romantic. It's so sweet. That's really sweet. That, like, he noticed that, and then, you know, look what came of it. That's kind of amazing.
- [13:26]
A
Yeah. I mean, Rory is. Rory is my, like, silent hero, you know, win all these accolades, and I get all this recognition, and, I mean, a lot of it is thanks to him.
- [13:36]
B
That's really sweet. I love that. So when you took that first step and you took on that first client, how has your design process changed since then? Because you've been in business for over 10 years now, and you've learned so much. What has changed from the beginning until now?
- [13:52]
A
Everything. My God.
- [13:53]
B
Yeah.
- [13:54]
A
I mean, with. I guess, from the beginning of interior design to now, like, now I have, like, a really solid team to help me. Like, I have all the things that I never really dreamed I would be capable of having or, like, really deserve to have. So I think that was, like, my biggest learning lesson. There was actually a moment where, during the pandemic, my husband and I would listen to, like, podcasts at night, and there was a specific big podcast. I can't remember which one it was, but we were listening to growing small businesses and things that people have, you know, learned as they grew their businesses. And I think one of the biggest things for me was recognizing that even though I really followed a very unconventional path to get to where I am, I still deserve people that are qualified to fill the positions that I need filled. I know that seems very basic, but.
- [14:48]
B
No, but I think that's true. And so many people feel imposter syndrome, especially when you pivot and are industry. So that makes a lot of sense.
- [14:56]
A
Yeah. And I. Everything kind of started to click once I accepted that, I guess. And also when I started to let go of my need for control. And that's not to say that I don't still need control, because I'm very, very type A. Yeah, no, but it's.
- [15:13]
B
True because to grow, you have to learn how to delegate. And to be able to delegate, you have to get rid of control. And it's a, it's a. I think every founder experiences the push pull of slowly releasing the grip just a little bit to allow you to hire more and then allow you to take more on. But it's, It's a hard, weird experience in the beginning for sure.
- [15:34]
A
Yeah. And like, where to let go and what things you should still hold on to.
- [15:39]
B
Yep, absolutely. And I think it comes from trial and error too.
- [15:43]
A
Agreed.
- [15:44]
B
Seeing what you, like, feel comfortable letting go of and maybe that didn't feel right, so you try something else. But, you know, you get to a point where then it feels comfortable. And like, I think the five year mark is when you start to loosen your grip a little bit. And the 10 year mark is when you start to really feel like a cadence and like, okay, these are the things that I own and these are the things that I feel comfortable delegating.
- [16:04]
A
I agree with that. Definitely. Yeah. To look at where I am now versus where I first started with interior design specifically, I mean, it's. It's night and day. It's just, it's so different, like going from, you know, tiny me and imposter syndrome and how do I get to the end goal, which I didn't even really know what that was.
- [16:24]
B
Yeah.
- [16:25]
A
To being here now, which is still not the end goal. And I don't think I'll ever really. I never really have a clear picture of end goal. Right. Because once you get there, then. Are you disappointed once you get there? Yeah.
- [16:35]
B
It's constantly a moving target. But I mean, look at how much you've accomplished. 8,103 years in a row, multiple cover. It's amazing. You should be really proud of yourself. It's an amazing story of how you grew your business and how you got to where you got.
- [16:50]
A
Thank you. Yeah, super proud. I also, you know, very much recognize that I live in a city that offers a lot of opportunities. So it's a little bit of, you know, being in the right place at the right time as well.
- [17:01]
B
It's so funny, I was talking to someone when we were recording last week and we were talking about the new Ina Garten memoir that's coming out. The title is called Be Ready when the Luck Happens. And I love it because it's so true.
- [17:14]
A
It's so true.
- [17:15]
B
Especially for people that are, you know, entrepreneurs or founding their own business. Like, that is like the definition of starting Your own business, there's a little bit of luck. But there's also, you know, the awareness of, I should take this opportunity or I'm going to be really bold and go out and take this risk. And it's like the alchemy of all of that, that. That I think is the most interesting hearing about, you know, how people started their businesses and where they got to.
- [17:38]
A
Yeah, I definitely agree with that. Absolutely. You know, opportunities are. Are always out there. It's just whether or not you're brave enough to go for it.
- [17:46]
B
Yeah. What's your favorite thing about working in the design industry now that you've been doing this a long time? And do you have any really great stories or funny stories to share?
- [17:56]
A
Favorite thing about working in design? I think I really like that it's subjective and that it's personal. And I say this because being kind of in the public eye to some degree with what I do, you get a lot of people's opinions, some not so great. And as long as you remember that design is simple and also you're designing for a specific client, not for the general public, it helps to kind of not take people's opinions quite so seriously. So I really like it. It's not like math, where you do a spreadsheet and your formula is wrong, and, like, the answer's just wrong and you screwed up.
- [18:37]
B
I know. I keep telling my daughter because she's My oldest daughter's 5, and she's always like, she's an artsy kid. She loves art and things. And I always tell her, there's no wrong way or right way to be creative. And it's true. Like, everybody has their own things that they're inspired by that they want to do.
- [18:56]
A
Right.
- [18:56]
B
And to your point, each client is like their own story, and so it has to be personal to them. And also reading comments on the Internet is. I don't even read them because people are mean.
- [19:07]
A
I've stopped. I know.
- [19:10]
B
People are crazy.
- [19:11]
A
Time I did it, like, my team, everybody was like, mandy, you cannot read those.
- [19:17]
B
No, you can't. Are there any design rules that you always follow or any that you're like, oh, those are just made to be broken?
- [19:26]
A
I would say, like, I don't know if these are necessarily design. This is a design rule, but it happens a lot where clients ask me, you know, should it be the same wood throughout the house?
- [19:37]
B
Yeah.
- [19:38]
A
And for the most part, my answer is no. And I. I always give the analogy of, you know, there's a whole bunch of trees in the forest. And they all have different colored trunks and branches, and they all look really harmonious together. So it would be the same thing in your own home. And obviously there's, you know, caveats to that, like try to stick within the same color tone, more or less. But I don't think having a dark stain with a lighter stain and then a completely different wood in general, you know that it's a bad thing by any means.
- [20:10]
B
Yeah, no, it gives layer and depth, and the difference is kind of what makes. Makes things look interesting. What's the best advice for designing interiors that you've ever received and from who? If you feel comfortable sharing, I would.
- [20:23]
A
Say, oh, a friend told me that I always need to photograph my work. Otherwise, you have nothing to show for what you've accomplished.
- [20:30]
B
Yeah, that is the best advice.
- [20:32]
A
It is probably the best advice that I could, like, pass on to, you know, anyone. And I know that that's, you know, that comes with a lot. Right. Like, it's really expensive. Maybe the project you've done isn't to your liking or whatever, but if you don't shoot, you have nothing to show for your portfolio. And it's. It's how everybody hires you.
- [20:52]
B
Yeah, no, it's so true. One of the things that a mentor of mine said to me in the beginning was you have to shoot everything and. But also don't shoot the things you don't want to get again, which I thought is, like, also really helpful. It's like, put the things out into the universe that you want to be getting more of, and I love that. Speaking of mentors, looking back through your career, have you had a mentor or someone who's kind of helped to shape your trajectory?
- [21:18]
A
A lot of people have kind of helped shape my trajectory. I think friends and family that told me to go for it, even if I really had no business getting into what I'm doing.
- [21:30]
B
Yeah.
- [21:31]
A
And at DreamWorks, my producer at the time, Christine Belson, she was really pivotal in helping me, and she still is. Like, I talk to her all the time, and I definitely see her as a mentor. But, you know, when I was at DreamWorks, she kind of helped me pivot out of DreamWorks and into some internships with Eric Hughes, who is a very prominent designer. He's wonderful. He does beautiful work.
- [21:55]
B
Yeah.
- [21:55]
A
And so he, you know, as far as interior design mentoring goes, I would definitely say him as far as how to treat a team. One of my best friends, Jay Hogard, he really taught me that. So I was his art director, graphic designer, you know, back When I was freelance. And the way he treated his team is definitely. It was just, you know, I guess, learning how to be a boss.
- [22:18]
B
Yeah.
- [22:19]
A
And how to treat people. So I would say there's a handful of people.
- [22:22]
B
I love that. Pivoting a little bit to some personal questions, what do you think your home says about you?
- [22:30]
A
It says that I love wallpaper. It says I love the wallpaper.
- [22:36]
B
Mandy, behind her is so pretty, by the way. It was, like, the first thing I noticed. It's beautiful.
- [22:42]
A
Thank you. Yeah, it's really fun. And a lot of the things that I've put in my house are things that, you know, my team and I have proposed to current or past clients that I love. And I know it's bold, and I know it's, like, a little bit out there, and the clients ultimately went with, like, a safer option and not to, like, fault them, you know, by any means, but in a lot of ways.
- [23:04]
B
No, but, like, your home is your own laboratory, I think, for so many designers. And you get to, like, try this. Things that, you know, people might be a little bit timid to try.
- [23:13]
A
Absolutely. Like, this is definitely a case study of a house just, you know, pulled together.
- [23:18]
B
Yeah.
- [23:19]
A
Well, we entertain a lot, and I think the home shows that you'll see a lot of, you know, kind of my characteristic earth tones and colors in here, and then just global influences from the times that, you know, we've traveled.
- [23:34]
B
So cool. I love. I love the way you use, like, unexpected colors like rust, and they're just so warm and beautiful and inviting. Do you have any favorite places to shop for? Home a lot.
- [23:46]
A
I mean, I love to shop local. I love small businesses because I'm a small business.
- [23:50]
B
Yeah.
- [23:51]
A
In la, I mean, there's so many good places, like, I mean, absolutely. Like, furniture. You can get everything that you want for your home in this little city here. So if we're talking about, like, decor, I mean, furniture, you know, we truly source everywhere, like, all over the world, and then local and then online. So it's kind of, you know, a full mix. But when it comes to shopping to, like, stage and, you know, do, like, final touches and decor, that's where the small businesses really come in. So usually two or three of us will spend an entire day kind of running around the greater LA and shopping at different shops to buy things.
- [24:32]
B
Yeah.
- [24:32]
A
In Atwater Village, there's two places that I always go to block shop and decorate. I love those two places. And then, of course, like, Etsy, you know, again, small businesses and finding and, like, that's where you can, like, search the weirdest combination of words and still find something.
- [24:49]
B
I know, it's so fun. We have a shoot coming up in two weeks that we're doing, like, our final accessory poll for, and we have, like, the most random. We have, like, a French onion crock, like, for French onion soup. Like, the most random things that we found. And it was, like, $30, but it's so pretty. And we're gonna, like, use it in the K it on a shelf, and it'll photograph beautifully. But you can find the most random stuff on Etsy, and it's, like, such a black hole for me.
- [25:16]
A
Exactly. I mean, you. Yeah. I mean, you spend all night and lose sleep over it. It's definitely a black hole. And then, like, going vintage shopping, too, in la, you know, like, there's different areas you can go to shop for antiques and vintage little tchotchkes. So, you know, that's always fun, too.
- [25:33]
B
Yeah. You have so many great, amazing, amazing vintage shops there. Where do you find inspiration? Is there anywhere specific that you turn to? Is it books? Is it social media, Travel?
- [25:45]
A
I guess all of the above. I don't. I try not to look for inspiration on social media.
- [25:53]
B
Yeah, I know it's. It can get tricky. I feel like it's almost like you have to look outwards instead of looking.
- [25:59]
A
At Instagram, you know, with algorithms and, like, it kind of like hones in on what you're looking for. So then you see 40,000 options of the same thing if you do that. So I try to stay off. I really do try to stay off of social media, like, as much as possible, other than when it's necessary.
- [26:16]
B
Yeah.
- [26:16]
A
So traveling is definitely a big one. Books and, you know, looking at other designers. But I specifically look at designers that are in other countries.
- [26:26]
B
Interesting.
- [26:27]
A
So. And I do it a lot for color, like, I want to see. Because, you know, like, different countries have, like, I guess, different color aesthetics, I guess would be the best way to put it. So kind of seeing how different designers combine colors and, you know, are they secondary colors or tertiary colors and, like, how those all go together.
- [26:47]
B
Yeah.
- [26:48]
A
And then obviously, like, nature just going outside and walking around and hiking and looking at plants and seeing how nature puts color together. So I would say, you know, it's a combination of all that stuff.
- [26:59]
B
Yeah, that's a big one for me too. Just I feel like when I'm walking, I. You can find things that you would never even think of in the world, and there they are just on the side of the road.
- [27:09]
A
Exactly.
- [27:11]
B
What have been the three biggest influences on your aesthetic in your life, do you think?
- [27:15]
A
I mean, traveling, I think living in Santa Barbara. So I went to college in Santa Barbara, and I lived there for several years after.
- [27:24]
B
I love Santa Barbara. It's so beautiful.
- [27:26]
A
Beautiful. I mean, I think that's, like, in my mind, like a second home to me. Like, I'll always be attached to that. And thankfully, we live very close to Santa Barbara, so we get to pop up there. But I think living there really influenced a lot for me. Just kind of this, you know, indoor outdoor living lifestyle and the aesthetics that go along with it. You know, I learned how to surf there, and I think just that that vibe is very much ingrained in me and how I design. So you'll kind of always see this underlying aesthetic in everything. Even though all of my projects are.
- [28:02]
B
Different, it's, like, easy but comfortable but collected and layered and a little global. I definitely see that in your work. That's so interesting.
- [28:11]
A
Yeah, I mean, I think it's there without really being at the forefront of anything.
- [28:18]
B
Yeah. Well, I think it's. I'm always fascinated by aesthetic influences that are always kind of in the back of your subconscious that you're not even sort of realizing that you're, you know, operating from that as your home base. And so that's. That's a cool one to hear because you can actually see it, but it's, like, subtly woven through the work.
- [28:39]
A
Yeah. And then I think the last thing would obviously be, you know, working in production design and just, you know, watching movies and all of that kind of stuff. You know, in production design, you walk into an arbitrary space, but you are told that it needs to become this.
- [28:58]
B
Right.
- [28:59]
A
So, like, what lengths do you have to go to to make it become whatever that is? And the amount of research you, like, pour into the next 24 hours to understand, like, how to achieve the exact vision of, you know, what this group of people is trying to achieve. I think that has a big influence on my aesthetic as well.
- [29:21]
B
Yeah, I'm fascinated by set design. I mean, you're expressing so much. It's almost like a. Like an extra character that can't speak, but can speak through what's, you know, the props and the way it's styled and stuff.
- [29:34]
A
Absolutely.
- [29:35]
B
Always, like, honing in on sets when I'm watching movies. And I think it's such an interesting and natural jump to go from that to interiors. But to your point, the cool thing about that is, like, you're designing for impermanence in a movie. And it's. You know, it's personal to the movie and the characters, but it's not personal to anybody in real life. And then when you go into interior design, it's permanent. It's someone's forever home, and it's someone's actual home. Like a human being.
- [30:05]
A
Right.
- [30:06]
B
It's a cool dichotomy there. Yeah.
- [30:08]
A
It was a funny transition.
- [30:11]
B
I bet.
- [30:12]
A
I'm just thinking of, like, you know, because it's permanent, you can no longer cheat it. And so for the longest time, you know, in your head, you're just. You're thinking of the most permanent but temporary solution for something. Right. Like, you need to get the shot, so it needs to not fall off for seven hours, but then after seven hours, you need to be able to tear it down quickly.
- [30:34]
B
Yeah.
- [30:35]
A
And I remember there was, like, a period where, like, during that transition of production design to interior design, where I had to, like, think differently. And, like, man, this is really hard. And I wish I could just, like, use Butyl tape and stick it up there, but I can't.
- [30:48]
B
Yeah, that's so funny. I mean, it makes sense. It's. I feel like it's a. It's a logical jump, but it's also a jump that would require a little bit of, like, easing into the new way of doing things.
- [30:59]
A
Right.
- [31:01]
B
Well, at the end of every episode, we do our take 10, which are our rapid fire questions. What is your favorite food?
- [31:09]
A
French fries.
- [31:10]
B
Love that answer. Favorite drink.
- [31:14]
A
Okay, well, I'll still answer with alcohol. A Pinot noir.
- [31:19]
B
I mean, a nice glass of Pinot noir and some french fries is, in my opinion, fabulous.
- [31:24]
A
So it's the best.
- [31:25]
B
Yeah. Favorite film.
- [31:27]
A
Anything by Wes Anderson for the aesthetics.
- [31:30]
B
Yeah. And I mean, the sets, Everything.
- [31:32]
A
Yeah. The set design is incredible.
- [31:34]
B
Favorite.
- [31:35]
A
Hotel Pali in Santa Barbara.
- [31:37]
B
Ooh, I don't know that one. I'm gonna look it up.
- [31:39]
A
We stayed there when we got married, so I think there's nostalgia there too.
- [31:43]
B
Oh, I love that. Favorite city.
- [31:46]
A
Ooh. For travel or to live?
- [31:48]
B
You could do both.
- [31:48]
A
Okay. To live, I would still say la. I'm here. I love it. To travel. The favorite place I've traveled to so far would be Mexico City, but there's a lot of places that could beat the top spot. I just haven't been yet.
- [32:04]
B
Yes, I know. DLN did, like, a big Mexico City trip last year, and it seems like such an amazing place to go for designers. It's just, like, rich with so much design.
- [32:14]
A
It's pretty magical. I love Mexico City. It was. Yeah, definitely a very cool trip. We want to go back for design. It's just incredible. The colors are amazing.
- [32:25]
B
Yeah.
- [32:25]
A
The food scene is insane. It's just. It's a great place to go.
- [32:29]
B
Yeah. That's a. That one's very high on my list. Favorite bedding, which I always love asking designers because we all have opinions.
- [32:38]
A
It's no longer linen. I'm going to say bamboo.
- [32:40]
B
Bamboo is very soft.
- [32:42]
A
Very, very, very soft.
- [32:43]
B
It's so breathable.
- [32:45]
A
Yes. Brands. I would say Parachute and Mateo are my go tos.
- [32:51]
B
Yeah. And I think Parachute has a bamboo option now.
- [32:55]
A
I actually don't know the answer to that. I have all their linen bedding.
- [32:58]
B
Yeah. It's so. It's so pretty. And comes in such, like, gorgeous flowers, too.
- [33:02]
A
Yes.
- [33:02]
B
Tea or coffee? And how do you take it?
- [33:04]
A
Black coffee.
- [33:06]
B
Nice. I. My husband drinks, like, straight black coffee, and I'm like, exactly. I don't know how you do that. And he's like, I don't know how you drink coffee with creamer, and it's disgusting.
- [33:16]
A
Pour over. It has to be pour over. Like, I'm not gonna just, you know, do a Mr. Coffee brew.
- [33:22]
B
Yeah.
- [33:23]
A
And drink it black. That might not be right, but pour over. Black coffee is every morning. It's like how I start the day.
- [33:31]
B
Favorite playlist or thing to listen to.
- [33:34]
A
To work to, is Spotify's Mexican guitar.
- [33:39]
B
Ooh, I have to try that. I do, like, all of the Spotify, like, jazz playlists. I can't listen to anything that has words when I'm working. Same.
- [33:46]
A
Do you start typing them, too?
- [33:48]
B
Yeah, my brain, like, just, like, short circuits. Like, I can' I start writing the.
- [33:53]
A
Words of the songs. So, like, my whole team knows. Like, once. Once we're working, it has to switch to instrumental or, like, lo fi.
- [34:01]
B
Yeah. Literally. Same. I can't. I wonder if it's, like, there has to be, like, a word for that. It's, like, a real phenomenon, for sure. Favorite weekend activity.
- [34:11]
A
Brunch.
- [34:13]
B
That's a great weekend activity.
- [34:15]
A
Hanging out with friends in general. But, yeah, for a specific time of day, I would say brunch. I love brunch.
- [34:20]
B
Me too. It's like, the best meal of any meal. Yeah. Our last one is one that I feel like is always kind of hard to answer for designers. Favorite design book.
- [34:30]
A
Favorite design book. Oh, no.
- [34:33]
B
I know. It's, like, kind of impossible.
- [34:35]
A
Like, an actual book book. It can't be a publication.
- [34:38]
B
It could be a publication.
- [34:40]
A
An art digest.
- [34:41]
B
Yeah.
- [34:42]
A
It's just so Inspiring. You see, you know, designers from all over the world. It's just, it's, it's amazing.
- [34:48]
B
Well, Mandy, thank you so much for coming on. This was so fun.
- [34:53]
A
Thank you so much for having me. I had a blast.
- [34:55]
B
Yeah. Can you tell listeners what you're working on right now? Do you have any new projects you want to talk about?
- [34:59]
A
I think this is public knowledge. If not, it will be now. So I collaborated with Hudson Valley Lighting Group for my own lighting collection with their Mitzi line.
- [35:09]
B
That's so exciting.
- [35:10]
A
Yeah, I'm super excited. So I'll be at High Point with them to kind of, you know, pre launch my line and then starting, you know, next year, I'll kind of be going around to all the different design conferences promoting it.
- [35:26]
B
More amazing. I'm with Mitzi too. They're the best.
- [35:29]
A
Oh, awesome.
- [35:30]
B
Yeah, Mitzi, we are big Mitzi fans over here.
- [35:33]
A
Same.
- [35:34]
B
That's so exciting. I'm so happy for you. Isn't it? It's such a fun thing to do. It's such a cool way to create a physical product and see it in people's homes. I think it's just, just, it's such an amazing experience.
- [35:46]
A
It has been a really, really fun experience. Definitely. It's super interesting. Just, you know, production and how it all comes together. It's. It's definitely been a fun and interesting and educational process.
- [35:58]
B
Yeah. And they're the best to work with. I mean, they're like so nice. So nice. So seamless. They explain the whole process to you. I feel like I learned so much about manufacturing doing that.
- [36:08]
A
Yes.
- [36:08]
B
That's awesome. Congrats. That's so exciting. I'm so happy for you.
- [36:11]
A
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I'm really excited.
- [36:14]
B
And finally, the last question that we always ask everyone is, what advice do you have for someone looking to define their own interior style?
- [36:23]
A
Wow. I mean, I guess, you know, start with your own house. Like, look around and see what you're drawn to and then build on that. But also don't be afraid to try something new and don't get, you know, too confined to one specific style because you're inevitably going to have clients that are, you know, maybe they hire you for your specific style, but they also want, you know, a little something a little bit different for this or something a little different for that. So.
- [36:54]
B
Yeah, but yeah, start with your own.
- [36:56]
A
Home and look around and see what it is that you're inherently drawn to and then build off of that.
- [37:01]
B
Well, Mandy, thank you so much. Where can listeners find more about you and your firm on my website.
- [37:07]
A
So, Mandychang design.com I'm on Instagram, same Instagram handle, Mandy Chang Design. And you can always shoot me an email.
- [37:16]
B
Amazing. Well, we're going to link that all in the show notes for those of you listening. And Mandy, thank you. This was so fun.
- [37:24]
A
Thank you. I had a blast.
- [37:26]
B
Me too. I'm so glad we got to do this.
- [37:28]
A
Likewise.
- [37:30]
B
That's a wrap for this week's episode of Talkshop. Thanks for listening. We'll be back next week with more thoughtful discussions and amazing guests. Follow us on Apple podcasts, Spotify and YouTube, so you never miss an episode. And of course, follow me at Ariel Okun. See you next week.