← Talk Shop with Ariel Okin: A Fenimore Lane Production
Talk Shop with Ariel Okin: A Fenimore Lane Production
Reinventing How We Shop for Design with Anna Brockway of Chairish
00:51:44
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- [00:00]
A
Let's try it is one of our themes at Cherish. And we like things to change all the time. We don't like to do the same thing twice. Like, we like to mix it up. And that's how I am with decorating is, you know, I think when you get into a place where you're like, I'm going to do my living room and then I'm not going to touch it for 20 years, I'm like, why? Like, there's so much great stuff. Like, why would you do that?
- [00:21]
B
Welcome to Talkshop. I'm Arielle Oken, a New York based interior designer, writer and editor looking to bring a little bit of magic into our homes every day. After years as a writer and editor in the interiors world, I founded my own editorial site, Fenimore Lane, in 2020 and the TalkShop interview series was born. Each week I delve into the personal experiences of the top interior designers and tastemakers around the globe. This week, I'm excited to welcome Anna Brockway, the co founder and president of Cherish, the leading online emporium where designers and tastemakers shop for exceptional home furnishings, art and jewelry. Ana launched Cherish in 2013 with her co founders, one of whom is her husband. Before founding the site, Ana received her BA in art history from Columbia University and spent a decade in the fashion world, rising to VP of Worldwide Marketing at Levi Strauss and Company. Today, ANA's vision has led Cherish's growth to offer nearly 1.2 million exceptional vintage, antique, contemporary and made to order products, millions of sophisticated design aficionados and a community of over 40,000 vetted design professionals. And it shows as Cherish was named one of the best entrepreneurial companies in America by Entrepreneur magazine and cited by Architectural Digest as the number one can't live without decorating app that will change the way you shop for furniture online. Cherish is one of my favorite places to browse for hours. So please join me as I welcome the fabulous Ana Brockway to the podcast. Ana, thank you so much for joining us. I'm so thrilled to have you on. I'm the biggest Cherish fan, so this is a real thrill to have you on today.
- [01:59]
A
Well, thank you for having me. And right back at you. We're big fans of your beautiful work and I'm so excited to talk with you today. So thanks for having us. Or me.
- [02:08]
B
Oh my God, yes. Well, to kick off the conversation, we always ask everyone who comes on, can you describe your style in three words or less?
- [02:17]
A
Well, it's a great question. It's funny. You know, we. I started the brand really from my heart, and so it's the same set of descriptors I would use to describe Cherish. So I would say from a style standpoint, it's open hearted, it's adventurous, and it's hopefully delightful.
- [02:36]
B
Oh, my God, those are such great words. And so different. You know, usually we have designers on, you know, most often, and, like, the words are usually, you know, descriptors. And those three are so good and so different. I love that.
- [02:50]
A
Well, you do. We. Open hearted is probably the one that sounds the funniest, but it's a really important part of the Cherish brand. And again, that really comes from my heart in the sense of wanting to have an experience and a place and kind of a storefront that feels really diverse in terms of the kinds of things that we offer, like really high end, exquisite, hard to find, what we call rare finds, exceptional design, kind of the fancy stuff, but also always having with that, an appreciation and love for the humbler and more fun things that I think designers love and design lovers adore because they bring that kind of sense of whimsy and eclecticism and uniqueness to a space. And I think one of the really unique things we've endeavored to do is to bring all that together in one place. That kind of high, low feeling.
- [03:47]
B
Yeah, I mean, that's absolutely what we use Cherish for. I mean, I use Cherish in every single project. There's not a project that we have not used it for. It's true. And you guys have excellent curation and the way you can put a code word in, like, if you're looking for coastal, or if you're looking for, you know, your search terms come up really well, which is not the case. Always.
- [04:08]
A
Great. That's nice to hear.
- [04:10]
B
And I like the point you just made about the high, low, because when you go even on the landing page, it always feels very warm and welcoming and there's nothing intimidating about the site. It feels like a friend who has great style.
- [04:23]
A
Well, that's what we were trying to do. So thank. Thank you for noticing.
- [04:26]
B
Yes. No, it feels that way. It's very warm and inviting and easy to use. And it's funny, your point about, like, the sort of whimsical pieces. We just recently wrapped a project in Cape Cod, and we used some rare finds from Cherish, but we also used. I found a set of old vintage tennis rackets that I'm going to hang in the foyer, you know, for like a hundred dollars. But like, they're going to make a great visual impact. And like, that mix is why I love Cherish so much.
- [04:54]
A
Oh, thank you. Yeah, well, that's a big part of what we've tried to do. And so when I say open hearted and I'm talking about a design brand, people are always kind of like, huh? But I think that's what we mean is like the appreciation, the love for the range, you know?
- [05:08]
B
Yeah, absolutely. It makes sense. So for those listening, tell us a little bit about yourself and sort of how you got to this point in your career right now and how you got to founding Cherish.
- [05:19]
A
Well, I'm a design lover from the beginning. Sarah kind of come from a family that was in this industry. So my dad for years worked at Baker Furniture.
- [05:28]
B
Oh, wow. Yeah.
- [05:30]
A
And then also for Michael Taylor Designs, which was the brand started by kind of the legendary San Francisco designer. So I grew up in a family that loved design and that, you know, kind of with a lot of designers and, and that kind of aesthetic approach infused in my life. And so I went to college in New York, I went to Columbia and I studied art history, really, with a focus on modern architecture, and then graduated and got a job in the fashion industries. So I started off in the advertising space working for Levi's Wow. Agency, which was really fun.
- [06:05]
B
Also. Such a fun time to be there too.
- [06:08]
A
Yeah, it was crazy. This is like in the, well, the 90s. I worked there, I worked there for a long time and I started off at their ad agency and I ended up getting hired by them and actually going to work for Levi's directly. So in total, I think I was there for like almost 12 years working on the brand.
- [06:23]
B
It's a long time.
- [06:24]
A
It's a super long time. And it's such a great iconic American brand to work on.
- [06:29]
B
Yeah.
- [06:30]
A
And one of the unique things about it is it's actually owned by a family. And so it's not, you know, it's a 4 billion at the time, $4 billion business, but it was run like a family business. And so one of the things that was really great about Levi's is they kind of let me try all kinds of different things. So I started off working, helping to design their shop in shops which were kind of a revolution at the time. The idea that you would go into a, a Macy's and you'd see a little Levi's boutique within there. It sounds crazy, but at the time that was a huge push and break through and really help to grow their business. So it was kind of an architecture related type thing.
- [07:11]
B
Yeah.
- [07:11]
A
Started working more in traditional advertising and I worked on their super bowl, got them to advertise in the super bowl for the first time and we started doing super bowl commercials. And then one of the really fun things is I started working with them on all their product placement programs. Product placement is when you get celebrities and well known style influencers to wear your jeans. Which sounds like such a no brainer now in our influencer culture. But at the time I remember working there and Bruce Springsteen's agent called and was like, we're going on the Born in the USA tour. Will will you send us some jeans? And it was like, oh my God, know how to do it? You know, and it was like, yeah, no, we want to do that, let's figure out how to do that. So we ended up hiring this great team from mtv and anyways, we had so much fun doing all that, so that's so cool. It was really fun. And I think through the Levi's experience, like the reason why it was so important for me was, you know, first off, I really learned how vintage is such an important part of creating brand power because really nothing is better than an old pair of Levi's. Right. And even our design teams used to spend so much time going through vintage stores and working with costuming people. Once we started to establish those relationships to see like whoever's buying what, whatever they're buying in vintage is going to be mainstream. And about 18 months now, I. And so studying the vintage market and really understanding that was such an important thing. But also just the fact that old Levi's were trading on the auction market, particularly in Japan, which has a huge denim affection. Auto culture.
- [08:46]
B
Yeah.
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A
So much money. It was like, okay, so this is a product and a brand that is so meaningful that, you know, 75, 100 years later, people are paying thousands and thousands of dollars to have a piece of it.
- [08:59]
B
That's so fascinating.
- [09:01]
A
It just helped me really appreciate and love the vintage market again, more from a fashion angle. And I think also like a lot of the stuff we were talking about at the beginning about Open Hearted really comes from my experience of Levi's because it's one of those brands that you can see people who are, you know, working on construction jobs or, you know, it's kind of a brand that comes from a workwear background with like physical labor, but also it's totally acceptable for people to be wearing, you know, with a Chanel jacket to a very lunch. And it's really one of the only brands in fashion, I think that has that kind of wingspan and that is open hearted perspective. And so anyways, those are some really important things that I took away from working on the brand. And then my husband and I had four kids really fast.
- [09:49]
B
Wow.
- [09:50]
A
Three of our own and one that came to live with us, my half sister. And so I stopped working and we moved a lot. I moved from home to home because our family just kept getting bigger and bigger and set of twins in there and it was just insane.
- [10:02]
B
Oh my God. That. Speaking as someone who has a six year old and a three year old, like that sounds really hard. Yeah.
- [10:09]
A
Four kids with us in two years. So it was two and a half years. It was insane.
- [10:14]
B
Yeah. That's wild.
- [10:15]
A
We live in San Francisco, so we were moving around and I just had the experience that I'm sure you and many of your clients have had, which is you move to one house and you know, you get all excited and you decorate it and then all of a sudden it's like, wait, you know, new kids, you know, need more. Need more bedrooms. And so you. And it's like, what are you doing with all these great things, you know, that you just bought? But for whatever reason been in the new space. And also, you know, I needed to furnish these homes quickly and with style and also with an eye to, you know, budget consciousness. And so I started shopping vintage for my own home and then also trying to figure out how to sell my own stuff. And anyways, long story short, my husband during this time was working in the tech space and he was building these great websites to help sell tickets, airline tickets. So he was one of the co founders of hotwire, which is a big ticketing company and all.
- [11:11]
B
Wow.
- [11:12]
A
And so he had all this experience kind of creating marketplaces. And I looked at him one day and I was like, you know what you're. He just sold a business. And I said, your next thing should be starting a company that helps us, you know, people like us sell to people like us. Right. Like, like beautiful things from our home that we can't use anymore to people who appreciate them and, and who are moving and redecorating too. And he was like, no, you should start that business. You'd be really good at that. And so.
- [11:40]
B
Oh, I love that. I love that he said that to you too.
- [11:44]
A
And we started it together in our dining room.
- [11:47]
B
Wow.
- [11:48]
A
He brought on board as CTO and that's how we got chair started. So it really started as a person to person marketplace, but with a curator. So it's like, only good stuff. And then also solving one of the biggest problems, which is the shipping component. And the shipping part of the business is in some ways the toughest part of the business. And as a designer, I'm sure you can appreciate that, that for all the beautiful, sparkly things, it's actually a lot about shipping and delivery schedules.
- [12:15]
B
A hundred percent. I always tell everyone 80% of my job is logistics and 20% is creative.
- [12:21]
A
I know. And you know, when I was doing all those moves, I actually bought this amazing dining room table on ebay. And I had to figure out how to get it from this lovely lady's house. She was an older lady who was moving into assisted living. And I bought her dining table and her daughter called me and was like, you gotta get this outta here. Because moving. And so, like in. In 24 hours, I had to figure out how to move a table across the country, which is really complicated.
- [12:50]
B
Really complicated. And like, the fact that you guys can handle that on your back end is like, what one of the things that makes it so appealing as a designer. And also, you know, to your point about getting furniture quickly.
- [13:03]
A
Yeah.
- [13:04]
B
On a good timeline and a good budget. We furnished house in Southampton almost exclusively through Cherish during COVID because we were able to get everything immediately and quickly and beautifully. And. And it was gorgeous.
- [13:17]
A
Well, thank you. I mean, that's really, I think, one of the unsung benefits of vintage, which is it's immediately available.
- [13:24]
B
Yeah. And it's eco friendly. I mean, like, there's so many pluses to shopping vintage in so many ways.
- [13:30]
A
Yes.
- [13:31]
B
That I think people don't even realize.
- [13:33]
A
And it's interesting right now because, you know, with all of this tariff confusion that's going on in the market.
- [13:39]
B
Yeah.
- [13:39]
A
Also, like, you know, we do have about 15% of our inventory that comes to us from Europe, but the other 85% is here.
- [13:47]
B
I know. Which is amazing. We did a little bit on substack about that. And we linked out to your. You guys very smartly did a curation of readily available American vintage. And we linked out to it on Substack because it was so smart. I mean, you're thinking. Thinking about. And this is why I love your trade program also. It's like you're thinking about how designers source and what their creative process is like and what the logistical process is like. And you're meeting designers where they are. And I think that's one of the most amazing things about, like, the interface.
- [14:20]
A
Thank you. One of the really fun things about starting the Business was. Well, first off, quickly learning that you can't really be in this business if you don't work with interior designers successfully.
- [14:32]
B
Right.
- [14:32]
A
Because you guys are our best customers. And so one of the really fun things has been getting to know the interior design industry and spending so much time with talented folks like you who've really taught me a lot about what they need. And we take that so seriously because we know that when you buy from us, you're making a promise to your client like your name's on the line. And so delivering for you is really important because you're trusting us with your reputation. Right.
- [15:02]
B
Yeah.
- [15:03]
A
A lot of that gets into. I mean, the curation's important and all kinds of special things we do to make interior designers happy. But the main thing is, like, how do we get these items to you quickly and safely and in proper condition.
- [15:16]
B
Yeah. The back end user experience. You can tell that you guys put a lot of thought and care into it. Yeah, we have.
- [15:23]
A
So thanks for noticing that. I mean, I have to credit my husband with that part because he really some really key players on our team. You know, I've always focused on gathering this, the supply and the demand side, so getting the inventory together. And, you know, we've moved now where 98% of our inventory comes to us from professional dealers.
- [15:42]
B
Interesting.
- [15:43]
A
We still have a component of our business that comes from people like me when we started, you know, private consignors. But mostly our inventory comes to us from professional dealers. And then I also work on the demand side, which is, you know, working with interior designers and Google Ads and all that kind of stuff.
- [15:58]
B
Yeah.
- [15:59]
A
And Greg has really taken on running the engineering part of it with Andy Denmark, who's our cto, and getting the operations and the plumbing to work. And so I think what's really great and what makes the brand powerful is you kind of have the creative side of the business and the tastemaking side of the business, which is sort of what I focus on. And then you also have these really smart people who are running the tech side of the business. So it's really a pretty tech business.
- [16:24]
B
That's so interesting. I never knew that backstory, which is really fascinating and makes sense.
- [16:30]
A
Yeah. And it's a unique combination because often when I talk with people who are starting businesses in this space, they have one or the other, but they don't really have both.
- [16:38]
B
Yeah. And you need both. It's the sweet spot.
- [16:41]
A
Yeah. So you'll have great tech and no taste, or you'll have all taste. But it doesn't work that well. Right. Being able to bring those two things together has. Has what's, you know, gotten us to. To hear.
- [16:51]
B
So it's amazing because also both of you come with your own set of expertise in the areas that you sort of own, you know, like, you come from fashion, with years of experience at, you know, major American creative brand, and he has the history of building successful tech startups. Like, that's kind of a match made in heaven.
- [17:11]
A
It is. It's funny doing it with your husband, I bet.
- [17:14]
B
But it's so cool. I love it.
- [17:18]
A
Well, let's just say Cherish never sleeps. We're working on it.
- [17:21]
B
I bet. I love hearing stories like that, though. Like when we interviewed Caroline Jadier last year, she told me that, yeah, she's great. So great and like, so sweet and talented. And she told us the story about how her husband, when she was still a lawyer, like, wrapped up her LLC paperwork for her interior design business and put it under the Christmas tree. I was like, it's time for you to start your business. And I just love stories like that because it's what could be better than, like, your partner supporting you and like, you know, creating your own business and. And being your cheerleader. It's so awesome.
- [17:55]
A
It is awesome. I mean, one of the things that when we were deciding to work together, you know, there's a lot of concern too, because there's a lot that could go wrong. And my dear friends, childhood friends, is a guy named Kevin Hartz, and he and his wife Julia Hart, started Eventbrite together. The event ticketing company.
- [18:12]
B
Yeah.
- [18:12]
A
So we went to them for some advice and they gave us the best advice. They were like, so the thing is, is that it'll totally work if you each kind of have your lane, like your area of expertise, and you kind of need to stay in your lane and you'll collaborate, but you can't get in the other person's lane or you won't fight. And I have to say, like, yes, that is true. It was good advice.
- [18:35]
B
Honestly, like, that's just good life advice in general. Like, I think that's applicable to so many things.
- [18:40]
A
I love that. Yeah, you're right. It's probably the secret to a happy marriage is right there. But anyways.
- [18:45]
B
Exactly.
- [18:46]
A
We thank you, Kevin and Julian. We stuck to the advice. We stuck to the plan.
- [18:50]
B
Are there any stories, like, from those early days that are really funny or good that you want to share?
- [18:56]
A
Oh, God, so many. I mean, when we first started the business, we used to pick up the items and store them until they were sold. So we would like people's houses with a truck, pick up the items and put them in a warehouse and wait for them to sell. Yeah. You know, as you know, in this business, the shipping, what we were talking about, logistically is the hardest part, but it's also expensive. Yeah. Shipping things when. Because of the way we work, like, we don't bury the shipping cost and the cost of the items. So for a lot of people, it's their first time seeing that, like what shipping costs because.
- [19:31]
B
And sometimes it's more than the cost of what you're buying.
- [19:33]
A
Yeah, it can be. And so when you're buying a newly made sofa and you're paying, you know, $4,000, what you don't know, and 2. 99 in shipping, what you don't know is, is that, you know, of that $4,000 sofa, there's probably $600 in shipping buried there.
- [19:48]
B
Exactly, exactly.
- [19:50]
A
And our site doesn't work that way. Anyways, long story short, we quickly learned that, you know, shipping something once is expensive enough. Shipping it twice, you know, from your home to a storage facility and then from the storage facility to the buyer's home, like, that's just too much.
- [20:04]
B
Yeah.
- [20:05]
A
That was just kind of like a hard conversation that Greg had to have with me, which was like, this is just never going to work, doing it this way. And it's so funny because I see so many startups that have come after us that have tried to do that, and none of them have been able to figure it out. And it's like, it's a nice solution for the seller, but it's not really an economical. You can't really run a business that way. So. Yeah, I mean, there were a lot of super hard learnings and tough conversations, but. But here we are. We made it. That's amazing.
- [20:33]
B
And I would imagine the overhead, too. I mean, just the sheer overhead of stor storage in general is like. It can tank you.
- [20:40]
A
Yeah, it absolutely can. So having the items stay with the seller until the item is sold has done is. It's allowed us to focus our energy and our funding and, you know, kind of all of our capital on building great tech and creating demand.
- [20:57]
B
Yeah, it makes sense. And also, I think it's cool that sellers can make their own little storefronts.
- [21:02]
A
Yes. I love going to a market, an antique show, or, you know, Paris Fleet. I mean, you know, you name it, Brimfield, all these great it's. And you get to. I mean, I really love all the dealers like their stories.
- [21:16]
B
Yeah, it's like the best part.
- [21:17]
A
And you learn so much from them. And so I like to shop in what I call emporiums, which are like little boutique storefronts, like how Fred Siegel used to be back in the old days, and it fell out.
- [21:27]
B
And what you did at Bergdorf, which.
- [21:29]
A
Was so cool, and Bergdorf's, we just did a big market at Bergdorf.
- [21:33]
B
It was amazing.
- [21:34]
A
So we were just really wanting to recreate that feeling on the site where small sellers can come and set up their storefront. And we just turned on this new great kind of enhanced version of communication. So now you can actually talk with sellers back and forth a little more easily than you could before. And it's so great to be able.
- [21:53]
B
To ask, notice that. And it's really helpful.
- [21:56]
A
Yeah, it's great. And you get to hear kind of more of the stories behind it. And so these sellers, they know so much. Like, you know, you can come across, and you're like, oh, my God, this has got to be one of the world's leading experts on majolica, you know.
- [22:06]
B
Like, no, actually, though, you learn a.
- [22:09]
A
Ton, so it's really fun. So true.
- [22:12]
B
Well, it's been a decade plus since you started Cherish now, and. Which is wild. And it's really like such a leading online emporium for designers to find the best piece for a project. And it is such a huge and integral part of. Of our firm and how we source. How does that feel? I mean, it's so cool you guys started this not that long ago, and it's really blossomed into, like, a major element of the interiors world.
- [22:39]
A
Thank you for saying that. Yeah. It feels like a long time. You know, it's like raising kids.
- [22:45]
B
Yeah.
- [22:45]
A
You know, I bet. What do they say? That years are short, the days are long. Like, it's.
- [22:50]
B
Yeah, it's a lot.
- [22:52]
A
It feels really nice, I'll say that. Like, it sort of started to know that. That we had gotten somewhere when I would go out and I was be asked, you know, where do you work? And I'd say, oh, you know, I'm the co founder, Cherish. And people would say, oh, I know Cherish, you know, because it used to be that I explain what it was everywhere that went.
- [23:10]
B
Yep.
- [23:11]
A
And then it was like suddenly this. You just started to have this change where people knew the brand. And I have to say that felt really good. As a longtime marketing person, that felt really nice.
- [23:20]
B
Of course. I bet. I mean, it's. There's nothing more Exciting than getting, you know, when you're. You're like toiling day in and day out at creating this brand and trying to turn it into something and you finally get recognition for it. I mean, that feels awesome.
- [23:34]
A
Yeah, it's been fun.
- [23:35]
B
And also, I mean, Cherish was named one of the best entrepreneurial companies in America by entrepreneur and ad, called it the number one can't live without decorating app that will change the way you shop for furniture online. So, I mean, it's a big deal.
- [23:49]
A
It's been fun, you know, but I do think one of the really interesting things about. About the business has been that at these moments of kind of. I don't want to call them crises, but I mean, certainly co felt that way, but these moments of like uncertainty, people come to come to vintage and they come to try it and then what we see is we can track this is they sort of stick around. You know, it's not like, well, I bought vintage at that time because I kind of had to. It's like once people have the experience, like, oh, it's faster. It's chica. It's because it's one of the find. Yeah, it's in many cases cheaper. It's greener. As zero point out, they're like, why am I buying newly made? And.
- [24:30]
B
I know you kind of catch the bug. You know, it's. Once you realize that you can find something more economical, it will get there faster. You don't have to wait for these crazy lead times. Oftentimes it's better made because it was made years ago and the craftsmanship was better than what you're getting at these mass produced big box places. Sometimes it's one of one. You can't really get that anywhere else except if you're, you know, buying vintage or antique. And you guys also have the ability, I mean, you can create stuff on Cherish. You can order custom. I mean, there's so many. It kind of runs the gamut on there.
- [25:06]
A
Yeah, I think custom is a really interesting area for us to start to explore more, especially now that we have a better way for buyers and sellers or buyers and makers to talk to each other on site. It's a real opportunity for us and something that we're going to be getting to explore. I mean, bringing European product on was really exciting. So during. During COVID we actually bought a company in Europe.
- [25:29]
B
Oh yeah, I remember that.
- [25:31]
A
Yeah. Which is sort of, sort of like Cherish for Europe. And they just have such fantastic inventory.
- [25:38]
B
Yeah, they do.
- [25:39]
A
We take all of that and we pipe it into Cherish. So now we have all this, like, really beautiful European inventory. And I'm always surprised for. For Europe how quickly we can actually get the product because we now have air freight, so you can ship it on an airplane if you want. Oh, interesting. Yeah. So we can get things here. Like, we know Parcel actually is remarkably fast. Like, I've bought a lot of art and lighting and stuff from Europe for my own projects. And, yeah, I can get it here in matter of days. You know, it's not because Parcel's parcel. Right, right. And then for the big stuff that you have to blanket wrap and, you know, sofas and armoires, the air freight. I mean, I got a pair of dining room chairs here from the south of France. Got them to New York in, like, three weeks. Like, that's not.
- [26:27]
B
Oh, my God. That's insane considering how long you can wait for something to come on a boat.
- [26:32]
A
Yeah. So it's. It's been a kind of a delightful surprise that. That the European stuff can be as accessible as it is. But, gosh, talk about great and beautiful things. They just have the best.
- [26:43]
B
Oh, my God. I was so excited when I saw that that deal came through because we had been sourcing from there also for years. And it was just such a smart and wonderful addition to Cherish. I feel like it adds in this layer of things that you just. You really can't find elsewhere.
- [27:01]
A
Yeah.
- [27:02]
B
And it's very exciting to. To scroll through and see what you guys have on tap and what's new, what is coming up in the pipeline for Cherish. I feel like you guys have so many exciting things going on at once.
- [27:14]
A
Gosh, we're working on so many interesting things. You know, one of the really fun things has been kind of going back to my roots and starting to do relationships or have estate sales for a lot of our tastemaker and celebrity clients.
- [27:29]
B
Yeah.
- [27:29]
A
You know, we did a lot of work with Courtney Cox. We've done a lot of work with, you know, a variety of people, and we're working on a really big, fun one that I can't say the name on, unfortunately. Okay.
- [27:41]
B
I'm so excited, though.
- [27:43]
A
There's gonna be something really fun that we're doing, and those are just great because it's really fun to dig into someone's stuff and get a sense of their personal style.
- [27:52]
B
Totally. And you get, like. I would imagine you get eyeballs that may not have known about it otherwise, because it's.
- [27:58]
A
Exactly. It's a great way for people to discuss and that's been really fun. I'm knee deep in that right now. And then, you know, we're just always. One of the fun things about Cherishes every single thing that comes on the site. And we get, you know, a couple thousand items, a couple thousand new listings a day for sure is everything's tagged. So it's, you know, tagged by style, it's stacked by color, all that. And so one of the things that's just interesting to see is it's kind of like. And then we have about three, three and a half million sessions a month. So it's. And then when you add in our European site, then it's. It gets closer to like four and a half.
- [28:35]
B
Wow.
- [28:35]
A
And of course we have great customers, like the people who buy from us, like you, all the interior designers, like what are they looking for? And it's just so interesting. It's kind of like a living focus group to see what's. And you know, what's happening. And yeah, that's been a really fun part of the business is kind of the trend reporting component of it, which.
- [28:54]
B
I know, I was going to say talk about being able to like create an accurate trend report for interior designers.
- [28:59]
A
Totally. And we get asked a lot, you know, by the process of magazines, like, what are you guys seeing selling? And that's been a really great part of the business. I mean, like right now we're seeing a huge interest in art deco, which is fun. Like it's been a while since we've seen that.
- [29:14]
B
Yeah.
- [29:15]
A
So a lot of art deco interest. I mean, unsurprisingly, Wicker, wicker, wicker, like insane. Always.
- [29:22]
B
That's. That never goes out, I feel like.
- [29:24]
A
Never goes out. I know. You use that so beautifully in your project. That's something I really love that you do.
- [29:29]
B
Thank you.
- [29:29]
A
And then, you know, a lot of interest in like Swedish flat weave rugs and Swedish art. Like kind of like Swedish mid century art has been doing really well with us. So we're kind of going Swedish. And the other thing we're seeing right now, which is so lovely is Tabletop. You know, after we saw a huge surge in that around Covid and then I wouldn't say it didn't die, but it sort of flattened out and we're just starting to see like a lot of it's attention again to Tabletop. And then we just launched jewelry. So we launched estate jewelry on the site as well.
- [30:00]
B
I've been loving that. It's honestly quite dangerous because I'm on the site daily Just, like, shopping for my clients, and then, like, I come across this, like, insane bangle or something, and I'm like, oh, no, this is really bad because it's so. Like, everything is so gorgeous. There's so much good stuff.
- [30:19]
A
Yeah, it's really fun. You know, after being in furniture for. For all these years, it's really nice to kind of get my head into something else.
- [30:26]
B
And there's bags, too.
- [30:28]
A
And we're. We're doing bags, and we're getting some really great stuff, especially from Japan. And it's just really, really. It's really fun, and it's really chic, and I think, you know, it's kind of funny. We sell a lot of that in conjunction with Tabletop. It's kind of like another part of our entertaining stories is like, well, it's one thing to have a great table, but what are you gonna wear? You know, So y.
- [30:51]
B
Love that. It makes sense, though, because if you're. If you're putting together, like, graphics for, you know, an entertaining story, like, we kind of have to throw in, like, a really beautiful set of earrings and a caftan.
- [31:02]
A
No, like, chandelier earrings on top of that. Yes, we do.
- [31:07]
B
Exactly.
- [31:08]
A
Bracelets, too. Like, it's really fun. So anyways, those are the two things that are kind of occupying my time right now. You know, jewelry dealers. I mean, certainly some of our vintage sellers have beautiful things, but there's also a whole set and a whole new group of people for us to start to engage with who are sellers. And so getting my head around kind of what that community is like and. And all has been really fun.
- [31:31]
B
Well, talking about design for a minute, because that's sort of the core ethos of Cherish. What is your favorite thing about working with InDesign? Not as a designer, but being able to touch all these different aspects of the design world.
- [31:44]
A
I think for me, the most fun part has been the people part. Let's just say the design industry does not index low on personality.
- [31:52]
B
Yeah. So true.
- [31:54]
A
As you know, that's why I love.
- [31:56]
B
Doing this podcast, because I get to talk to so many interesting people.
- [32:00]
A
I mean, it is like an endless parade of interesting people. And I mean that both on designer side, which I know you spend a lot of time talking to designers who are fascinating and know so much.
- [32:09]
B
Yes.
- [32:10]
A
And their backgrounds are so interesting, and I just find them completely. 99.9% of the time, it's somebody at the end of the conversation, you could keep talking for another hundred years.
- [32:20]
B
Yes.
- [32:21]
A
The other is all the dealers. I have to say there's so much respect. It's like these are all independent small businesses. These people are hustlers. You know, they're out there, they're like buying and picking and putting things together and making deals to get this great inventory. And they're total experts in their area, you know, and so I've just learned so much from spending time with them. You know, the people have been fantastic.
- [32:45]
B
I love that answer. It's so true. And to your point about dealers, like, so many of them are self taught, which I am just always blown away by. I mean, some of these people started going to their local markets when they were, I don't know, 13, 14, 15. They caught the bug and all of a sudden they're, you know, working at a local shop and then what do you know, five, 10 years later, they've started their own little thing and they, they've grown it into like something really impressive. And it's very inspiring the stories of these dealers and, and how they got there. And I think it's not kind of like design, it's not really a linear path and so they just have interesting life stories.
- [33:24]
A
You know. I tell you, one of the things that was really fun when we did that pop up at Bergdorf Goodman. We've done it for three years in a row. You know, the one we just did this spring was sort of set up like little boutiques for a handful of of our sellers. And it was so meaningful to me to be able to see because Bergdorf Goodman for me is kind of like the, the top of the heap. Like it's such a amazing and beautiful. I mean, for me, it's the best store in the world by far.
- [33:53]
B
Yeah, me too. I have so many memories there. Like when I first moved to the.
- [33:56]
A
City, it's just, I mean, it's the best, right? I mean, yeah, it's a special place. Yes, it really is. And the way they run it and the team they have there is so excellent, particularly on the home floor. They're just fabulous. Who come from such great backgrounds and really interesting. Talk about really knowing their stuff. But anyways, to be able to bring some of our small businesses and taste makers into that store and kind of treat them almost like a little mini Prada store, you know. It was like, yeah, so good to give all these like small businesses and these, these, you know, really like, like entrepreneurs their own little showcase was really, that meant a lot to me as somebody who's been working with them.
- [34:35]
B
That's really special. And it was, I mean it was so beautiful.
- [34:39]
A
Yeah, it was fun. The other thing that was really nice about it is when we did it in the past, we sort of created the entire experience. And what was so fun about this was to be able to kind of create the framework and then turn it over to these people.
- [34:49]
B
Yes. I liked that you did it that way this year because everybody's storefront was different, and it was kind of like a show house, but in a different way. Yeah, totally.
- [34:58]
A
That's a great way of saying it.
- [35:00]
B
Yeah, it was beautiful. And you kind of get a different visual vibe for every single dealer. And the curation was amazing.
- [35:07]
A
Really talented sellers and dealers.
- [35:09]
B
Yes. Some of my favorites were there this year, this past year. Is there a design rule that you always follow or when that you think is made to be broken?
- [35:17]
A
I mean, part of the reason why we started the company and kind of one of my. One of my. I guess my rules to break is I always get frustrated when it's like, I want something that's timeless, that I can live with forever. Because, like, I don't want to live with anything forever. Like, all about.
- [35:34]
B
I love that.
- [35:35]
A
And I mean, Greg, my husband, backed me up on this, but maybe not in all as positive.
- [35:41]
B
That is so good because it's spoken like a true shopper, first of all. And, like, that just fits so much, like, for the story that you just told me. I love that.
- [35:50]
A
It's like, you always have to be. I always have to be changing things. And everything's like, you know what? It's the saying, design is never done.
- [35:57]
B
It's like, design is never done.
- [35:58]
A
Yet I sort of am like, let's try. It is one of our themes that cherish. And, like, we like things to change all the time. We don't like to do the same thing twice. Like, we like to mix it up. And that's how I am with decorating is. You know, I think when you get into a place where you're like, I'm going to do my living room, and then I'm not going to touch it for 20 years, I'm like, why? Like, so much great stuff. Like, why would you do that?
- [36:20]
B
I love that. And also when you move a lot, it doesn't always work in the same places. Like, whether it's, you know, whether it's space constraints or the architecture is calling for something different. Yeah, you're right. And so you need to be able to kind of change it up.
- [36:36]
A
I mean, you must have clients that come back to you over and over again. Right. Like, they're they just like. I mean, you know, that's part of life. It's part of the fun.
- [36:43]
B
Yeah. And that's, like, the best part of shopping, too. Well, a little about you, your home, and your favorite places. So what do you think your home says about you?
- [36:53]
A
Well, one of the things that surprises people is. Is I think it says that I'm an editor. People are surprised that my house isn't fuller.
- [37:00]
B
That makes sense, though, because for what you do, you almost have to be an editor because there's so much.
- [37:06]
A
There's so much. So I sell a lot and I buy a lot, but I don't have a lot in the middle. You know what I mean?
- [37:13]
B
So is there anything you're, like, super sentimental about that you just refuse to give up?
- [37:17]
A
You know what? I have a couple things. One is, when my husband and I got married, my mom was in Venice and she went and she bought this beautiful, totally clear, enormous Murano chandelier for us.
- [37:32]
B
Oh, wow.
- [37:33]
A
At the time, it was in our dining room. It's now in our bed. It's been kind of all over the place to last point. But that is. It's really pretty. It looks quite modern, actually, because it has no color. It's just this very clear.
- [37:47]
B
That's something that can probably transition depending on what you put with it. Yeah.
- [37:51]
A
And it's so great. It has such scale. And I've put it in places where it's technically too big to put. I've put it in places where it's.
- [37:58]
B
Always better overscaled than underscale.
- [38:00]
A
Better overscaled. And I. I just love it. And because it was a wedding gift, I mean, that from my mom, that is something I would never get rid of. But, yeah.
- [38:09]
B
Yeah.
- [38:09]
A
I'm remarkably unsentimental about everything else. Just sort of how I got here. It's amazing.
- [38:17]
B
But I love that there's one thing, you know, because that makes it even more special and, like, more heightened, I think. Besides Cherish, obviously, do you have any favorite places to shop?
- [38:28]
A
Oh, my gosh. So many places. Well, first off, we have a little Pieta Terra in New York, which I'm lucky to say is within walking distance.
- [38:35]
B
Of krb, the best store in the world. We just had Kate on. I'm so excited for her episode.
- [38:42]
A
And she is just fantastic. And that stories.
- [38:45]
B
She's so cool. And talk about someone who really has an eye and knows what they're doing. I mean, she's just gifted.
- [38:53]
A
Yeah. I've learned so much from her. And just being in her spaces and how she uses color and her kind of fearlessness, but at the same time, her erudition. Same thing with Liz o'. Brien.
- [39:04]
B
Yep.
- [39:04]
A
And her. I mean, that's like, you know, one of those places. I just. I feel like I learn a lot just by being in the space.
- [39:11]
B
Yeah.
- [39:11]
A
So those are two places that I love to go visit. I mean, suffice it to say, I love to go to the seventh floor Bergdorf's as well.
- [39:20]
B
Who doesn't?
- [39:21]
A
But because. Because it's just, you know, they're always doing something really interesting and new and that team is so forward thinking in terms of what they do. So I love that. I never turned down a chance to, you know, hit the Ralph Lauren mansion. I'm mentioning all New York places. I guess the other place I went recently that I felt so lucky I was invited. I actually went on a. It's a combination program that we did with Tuckernock, the clothing brand.
- [39:44]
B
We love Tuckernock. Yes.
- [39:46]
A
They're great. We went to the Parma Antique show together.
- [39:49]
B
That's so cool.
- [39:51]
A
Yeah, we had so much fun. We went to Parma, Italy, which is actually a university town in northern Italy.
- [39:58]
B
Yeah.
- [39:59]
A
We had the best time. And they have twice a year there, the most amazing antique show. I remember hearing about it first from Nate Berkus because he had told me that that's like the bomb. He loves swimming there.
- [40:11]
B
Yeah.
- [40:12]
A
And so I went there and it was a great way for us to meet. We did a little partnership with them and I met tons of fantastic European dealers who show there.
- [40:21]
B
Wow.
- [40:21]
A
And we just went a ball. So, yes. That's one of my favorite places to shop is Parma. The good news is a lot of those deals now on Cherish, so you don't have to go all the way to Italy to see them. But if you are there, make sure, you know, you check the calendar and see if it's happening because it's a fabulous show. That's really great.
- [40:37]
B
That's such a good tip. And also so convenient that you can shop Parma from your.
- [40:41]
A
From there. You can. Yes. Sorry about that.
- [40:45]
B
I love that. Where do you find inspiration? I mean, as an entrepreneur in general, I think it's like you're just always go, go, go. And so it's kind of hard to find that or access that creative space. And I think you and Cherish do such a good job of blending the creative with the tech and with, you know, the shopping experience. Where do you find that?
- [41:09]
A
You know, there's kind of two things. There's like, where Do I go visually for inspiration and of course, you know, I guess. Of course that's a lot about travel, a lot about the folks we just talked about in terms of, you know, visual inspiration and you know, spend a lot of time. I mean, I can't tell you how many times I'm in meetings where I'm holding up books on the zoom, like showing people vintage. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Right. Like, it's amazing.
- [41:34]
B
Books are a huge source of inspiration. I mean you can like vintage design books, you can just learn so much from them.
- [41:41]
A
You know, for a long time actually during COVID because I couldn't travel. Richard Christensen, who owns Chandelier Creative, I don't know if he's the Flamingo Ranch guy.
- [41:50]
B
Yeah.
- [41:50]
A
He used to have a bookstore, a vintage bookstore in LA called the Owl Bureau. It's closed.
- [41:56]
B
Oh, interesting. I didn't know that.
- [41:57]
A
Oh my God. It had the best. I think it was, I mean, I don't know, but I bet it was a lot of his like own stuff that he decreased.
- [42:05]
B
Yeah.
- [42:05]
A
Anyways, there were like boxes of these books arriving and I was buying like the old Beast Boys books and like the old Isaac Mizrahi stuff from the 90s, did a bunch of Runway show books and like it was so much fun to buy all that stuff and I needed. I couldn't get out and see things.
- [42:20]
B
Yeah.
- [42:21]
A
So visually that's, that, that's kind of where I go. And then like from a tech standpoint, like I spend a lot of time, you know, talking to other lady entrepreneurs. So I'm good friends with April Gardulio who owns the Vintner's Daughter.
- [42:32]
B
I love that I use that every day. It's so good.
- [42:35]
A
But like all these people who are starting businesses or have started businesses and, and watching kind of what they're doing and, and talking with them about what they're doing, really important for me. And then of course we look at all the marketplaces and really study what kind of tips and tricks are they doing to help people discover things and help people come to terms, you know, with deal over deals that we could learn from. So I kind of spend a lot of time in, in sometimes in weird places like marketplaces that sell auto parts. It's like an old car. It's like, it's not necessarily that like I really want to buy, you know, a muffler or whatever. But. Yeah, like how do they work?
- [43:09]
B
That's so interesting because it's just like, you know, you're looking for inspiration on like the user side yeah, for sure. That's so cool. Okay, well, now we're going to get into our take 10, which are rapid fire questions. They have absolutely nothing to do with interiors for the most part, but we always like to ask them. They're really fun. So what is your favorite food?
- [43:28]
A
Oh, my grandfather's chicken piccata.
- [43:30]
B
Ooh, I love that answer. My husband makes incredible. It's my favorite thing that he makes, chicken piccata. And he's a really good cook. And it's such a comfort food and it's so delicious.
- [43:43]
A
That's my favorite. I like an old fashioned San Francisco Italian chicken piccata. I'm in.
- [43:48]
B
Delicious. So good. What is your favorite drink?
- [43:52]
A
Ranch water.
- [43:53]
B
Favorite film?
- [43:54]
A
Rushmore by Wes Anderson. Because it was kind of like my story. I felt very connected to that character.
- [44:02]
B
Yeah, that's so good. Favorite hotel?
- [44:06]
A
Oh, the Hotel Gran Tamayo in Taormina. It's a Belmont hotel. Absolutely fantastic.
- [44:13]
B
I've seen pictures of that and it looks incredible. I have like a running bucket list of places I want to go when my kids are older. And that's on there.
- [44:22]
A
It's fantastic. And it has a sister property that's down on the water. That one's up on the hill. But there's another one called the. I think it's called the San Andrea, which I would also strongly recommend. And they have a little that you can go back and forth between the two. It's a ball. A beautiful beach.
- [44:35]
B
Oh, cool. I have to check those out. Favorite city?
- [44:39]
A
New York.
- [44:40]
B
I feel like I'm tied between New York and London. I feel like the shopping alone, it's like you can't beat it.
- [44:44]
A
Oh, London is a strong second.
- [44:46]
B
Yeah, yeah. Favorite bedding?
- [44:49]
A
Deporteau.
- [44:50]
B
Me too. You just. It's. You can't mess with the classic.
- [44:54]
A
Don't fix it.
- [44:56]
B
Yeah, exactly. Tea or coffee? And how do you take it?
- [45:00]
A
Coffee. And I just like a regular coffee with a splash of milk. My husband's very sweet. He delivers it upstairs while I'm still in bed. And that's really.
- [45:09]
B
You guys are so cute. That's so nice.
- [45:14]
A
The deal is I then walk the dog. But yeah, that's a good deal.
- [45:18]
B
That's amazing.
- [45:19]
A
I like. I like my deal.
- [45:20]
B
Yeah, Yeah, I would take that deal. It's a good one.
- [45:23]
A
Yeah.
- [45:24]
B
Favorite playlist or music to listen to?
- [45:27]
A
Well, my favorites list on Spotify, but I also like their wine bar playlist is actually pretty good right now. That's good.
- [45:33]
B
Oh, I don't know that I have to look it up. I just found a playlist on Spotify the other day. It was like the Carlisle Hotel, like, piano bar.
- [45:40]
A
Oh, how fun.
- [45:41]
B
It's really good.
- [45:43]
A
So fun.
- [45:43]
B
And I've been working to it because it's really relaxing.
- [45:46]
A
That's so fun. My kids would say the soundtrack to their childhood has always been like, Dave Brubeck, because, you know, he's a San Francisco dude. And we always listened to that in the morning. And so that's another favorite, favorite weekend activity. Oh, I wake up really early on Saturday mornings and I go to the San Francisco Flower Mart with my dad.
- [46:05]
B
Oh, my God, that's so sweet.
- [46:07]
A
Yeah, we like to go to the flower mart together. It's really fun.
- [46:09]
B
That's really special. And it's so nice that you guys live near each other too. That's really nice.
- [46:14]
A
Yeah.
- [46:14]
B
The last question I always ask is favorite design book, which I know is kind of hard.
- [46:19]
A
That's hard for me right now. But I'm loving that new book that just came out on Rosario Candela.
- [46:25]
B
That's a really good one.
- [46:26]
A
Greg and I bought a little pied a terre in New York a couple years ago and it is in, I think, either his last or his second to last building that he did in New York.
- [46:36]
B
Oh, wow.
- [46:37]
A
And it's not really because it's one of the last ones. It was designed before the war and then built post war. So it kind of interesting. But our apartment has a lot of the funny, quirky features that he had. It has like little curvy staircase. And so anyways, I kind of have been learning a lot about him, what he did and kind of his very interesting background. And anyways, I was thrilled that that book was coming out, so I loved it.
- [47:04]
B
Yeah, that book is wonderful. And it's a trove of information. I always feel like David is kind of like an encyclopedia. Like, I feel like he knows, so I love following him on Instagram.
- [47:12]
A
Yeah.
- [47:13]
B
And I think he wrote it. Did he write it with Peter?
- [47:15]
A
I think he did. And longtime architectural critic at the New York Times says Paul Goldberger. He was, I think, a co author.
- [47:21]
B
Yeah. Also another human encyclopedia. I mean, they both just like have so much institutional knowledge about everything in the industry.
- [47:31]
A
Yeah. You know, because I studied architectural history in my job every day. I mean, I use that. But it's not architecture, really. You know, more decorative arts and art history. So when I get a chance to really dig into something that, you know, has floor plans and architectural details on the outside and like, how does the light work? And yeah, love all the mechanics of that. And I felt like they just anyways really broke it down and kind of talked about what made, what really made really the Upper east side of New York, which certainly he kind of embodied so special. And why even now when you walk through it, you're like, why is anyone doing like this is all so good, like such a great, you know, like, this is like really fantastic. I know.
- [48:16]
B
I feel like that's another. It's like Porto. It's like, if it's not broke, don't fix it. It's so good and it's so classic and so beautiful that it's just, it's timeless. Well, on a few final words, what are you working on right now? Are there any new projects you can talk about or want to share at Cherish or otherwise?
- [48:35]
A
Well, I mentioned the jewelry stuff, which is really fun. Yeah, we're super excited about that. More and more celebrity stuff that we're working on and just building more and more relationships, frankly, also in Europe with our European dealers has been really fun. And so this fall I'm going to be an empty nester. Our twins are. Oh my God. Yeah. And so it's so exciting because it's going to free Greg and I up, I think, to be able to spend more time, always spend a lot of time on the road here in the US But I'm going to be able to spend more time in Europe and I'm excited about that.
- [49:07]
B
Oh my God. Empty nester after four kids, I can't imagine. But that's like, that's a big life chef.
- [49:13]
A
It's a big life shift. I will say, like there's going to be a big clean out around here.
- [49:18]
B
You have to do your own estate sale.
- [49:22]
A
I don't know if anyone wants the old lacrosse sticks and you know. Yeah, that needs to just like ski hat collection and all of that, you.
- [49:31]
B
Know, I mean, so funny.
- [49:35]
A
It builds up so that that's also a big project that's going to be happening in my life. So anyways, yes, my cherished storefront might get a little bit bigger. Yeah.
- [49:46]
B
Well, the last question that we ask everyone, and I always love hearing what people have to say for this one. What advice do you have for someone looking to define their own interior style?
- [49:55]
A
I mean, I feel like people need to not take it too seriously. Like I feel like people get really scared buying furniture, buying things, making decisions. And you know, one of the things I think that's great about Cherish and that is certainly indicative of kind of how we've used it personally is it's like you buy things, you live with them, and when you're ready to move on, you can sell them. And it's like, just keep going. There's this sense of permanence and like, heaviness that people bring to the decision making process in design because it's expensive and it takes a long time and people are like, oh, I want something. You know, it's kind of that whole, like, timeless forever. I want to have it. No, like, have more fun and, you know, bring some flexibility to your thinking around it. Be willing to be experimental and try some things and then if you don't like things, change them.
- [50:47]
B
You know, I think that is very helpful for people because you're right, people do really come at it with like a very kind of anxious mentality sometimes. And they're, you know, and it. And it is, it's a big investment when people are doing their homes all at once and, you know, but also it's like you, if you kind of allow yourself the freedom to make some quirky choices and they may not all work out, but that's sort of where charm and personal style happens.
- [51:15]
A
Yeah.
- [51:16]
B
So I really like that answer. That's a great answer. Well, Anna, thank you so much for coming on this. This was so much fun.
- [51:22]
A
Thank you for having me.
- [51:22]
B
I'm so glad we got to chat.
- [51:24]
A
This was great.
- [51:25]
B
That's a wrap for this week's episode of Talkshop. Thanks for listening. We'll be back next week with more thoughtful discussions and amazing guests. Follow us on Apple podcasts, Spotify and YouTube, so you never miss an episode. And of course, follow me. Arielokun, See you next week.