André Martin has been CLO at Nike, Mars, and Target, so when he talks about the cost of disengagement, we listen. In this episode, André joins Rob to talk about his new book Wrong Fit, Right Fit, why work feels broken for so many, and what leaders can do about it. From rewriting job descriptions to rethinking culture as a daily operating system instead of a poster, André lays out a blueprint for restoring energy, engagement, and trust inside modern organizations.

Also discussed: why climbing the ladder might take you further from your craft, how companies can stop catfishing candidates, and why your offsite might be a total waste of time.

🔑 Key Takeaways:

Work is always happening, which is why companies must intentionally design for recovery and restoration
Culture is not a value statement, it's how work actually gets done, shared, and socialized
Disengagement is expensive; $9.6 trillion in lost productivity comes from people doing the wrong work in the wrong place
Protective narratives are a red flag; rationalizing and blaming are signs of misalignment
The best offsites are not packed with content, they are focused on building deep relationships and trust
Promotions should not pull people away from their craft; getting better at your job should not always mean managing more people
A more honest hiring process that includes how ideas are shared and decisions are made can reduce bad-fit attrition

🔗 Links

Wrong Fit, Right Fit: Why How We Work Matters More Than Ever

André Martin on LinkedIn

LHH Recruitment Solutions

A Beautiful Working World

A Soundbeam Studios Production

Wrong Fit, Right Fit: Attacking Disengagement with CLO André Martin