I TURNED DOWN ONLYFANS WITH HOLLY MADISON - Ep. 9 Talk Tuah with Holly Madison

Summary

Podcast Summary: "I TURNED DOWN ONLYFANS WITH HOLLY MADISON - Ep. 9 Talk Tuah with Holly Madison"

Released on November 5, 2024, Episode 9 of "Talk Tuah" features Holly Madison, renowned for her time at the Playboy Mansion and her subsequent rise as a social media sensation. Hosted by Frankie, Apollo, and Chelsea, the episode delves deep into Holly’s experiences, personal growth, and insights into the evolving landscapes of fame and digital platforms.

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1. Life at the Playboy Mansion

Holly Madison opens up about her tumultuous experiences living at the iconic Playboy Mansion. She describes the environment as highly competitive and fraught with drama among the girlfriends.

Holly Madison [05:55]: "It was just, you know, everybody was trying to backstab the other one and get the other one kicked out, and it was just a nightmare."

She explains Hefner's strict rules, notably the prohibition against girlfriends having boyfriends, which fostered an atmosphere of jealousy and rivalry. Initially, only a few girlfriends like Holly and Bridget refrained from dating Hefner, setting them apart from others who engaged in secretive relationships.

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2. Relationships and Dynamics

The relationships within the mansion were complex, with most girlfriends involved in transactional relationships with Hefner. Over time, some bonds strengthened, leading to deeper friendships amidst the competitive backdrop.

Holly Madison [07:36]: "But we were never under any contract or anything like that, which is surprising to a lot of people, especially that he didn't have people sign NDAs..."

She highlights how the dynamics shifted as friendships developed, particularly her close relationship with Bridget, which became a source of support during challenging times.

---

3. Best and Worst Memories at the Mansion

Holly reminisces about both cherished and challenging moments from her time at the mansion.

Best Memories:

• Directing Playmate Pictorials: Holly found immense satisfaction in her role as a photo editor, fostering creativity and camaraderie.
• Girls’ Day Road Trips: Celebratory trips, such as Anastasia’s 21st birthday road trip to San Luis Obispo, were filled with fun and bonding.

Holly Madison [52:53]: "I think one of my best memories at the Mansion...working at the studio. I got to direct the Playmate pictorials for a couple years."

Worst Memories:

• Group Sex with Unfriendly Girls: Participating in intimate gatherings with individuals she didn't get along with created a toxic environment.
• Constant Backstabbing: The relentless attempts by some girlfriends to undermine each other led to significant emotional strain.

Holly Madison [54:44]: "So I learned so much from everything."

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4. Parties and Celebrity Culture

The Playboy Mansion was renowned for its exclusive parties, attracting celebrities and elite guests. Holly reflects on how the advent of smartphones transformed these events, making them less private and exclusive.

Holly Madison [12:28]: "The parties were super fun, especially back then. They were really exclusive and hard to get into."

She also addresses rumors about hidden tunnels beneath the mansion, clarifying that these were part of an April Fools' joke by Playboy, which inadvertently fueled conspiracy theories among the public.

---

5. Transition to Reality Show

With the commencement of the reality show, the mansion's dynamics began to change. Hefner's attention shifted towards maintaining relevance through the show, reducing the frequency of extravagant parties.

Holly Madison [25:19]: "He loved attention. He loved being famous... once he's getting attention off the show, he was so happy with that and so busy with that."

This transition brought about new challenges and altered the interpersonal relationships within the mansion.

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6. Personal Growth and New Life

Post-mansion, Holly navigates significant personal changes, including ending her relationship with Hefner due to his manipulative behavior and infidelity. She shares her journey towards self-discovery, culminating in her recent diagnosis of being on the autism spectrum.

Holly Madison [33:47]: "But now that I understand what's going on, it helps a lot."

Holly discusses how this diagnosis has helped her comprehend her past behaviors and interactions, enabling her to make positive adjustments in her life.

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7. OnlyFans vs. Playboy

The conversation shifts to modern digital platforms like OnlyFans. Holly recounts her experience with OnlyFans, where she initially posted bikini and lingerie photos but eventually found it uncomfortable due to the nature of captions and potential leaks.

Holly Madison [47:28]: "I had it up for two years."

She contrasts this with her time at Playboy, appreciating OnlyFans' control over content but ultimately deciding it wasn't the right fit for her personal comfort and privacy.

---

8. Dealing with Rumors and Conspiracy Theories

Holly addresses various conspiracy theories, including those linking her to fabricated claims about being an MK Ultra agent. She humorously dismisses these baseless rumors while acknowledging their absurdity.

Holly Madison [56:31]: "That's why, like, the Playboy tunnel rumor took off."

She emphasizes the importance of focusing on truth amidst the proliferation of unfounded conspiracy theories online.

---

9. Managing Online Harassment

Navigating her public persona, Holly discusses the challenges of dealing with negative comments and online harassment. She shares anecdotes about receiving unsolicited and inappropriate messages, a common plight for public figures.

Holly Madison [45:05]: "There's a guy who like pays to send me messages on Cameo where he's just like talking sexual stuff..."

Holly advocates for personal boundaries and the importance of not engaging with trolls or unfounded criticisms.

---

10. Relationships with Family and Disclosure

During her time at the mansion, Holly maintained a level of secrecy regarding her life and relationship with Hefner, which strained her communication with family members. Post-diagnosis, she reflects on the complexities of sharing her past experiences.

Holly Madison [59:10]: "Without fabricating my story, I think it's just I can't do anything right. I might as well just tell the truth."

She acknowledges the difficulty in balancing transparency with personal privacy, especially concerning family interactions.

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11. Conclusion: Insights and Reflections

Holly Madison concludes by highlighting her resilience and the lessons learned from her experiences. She underscores the importance of personal growth, maintaining meaningful relationships, and navigating the complexities of fame and personal identity.

Holly Madison [54:44]: "I learned so much from everything."

Her reflections provide valuable insights into overcoming adversity and striving for personal authenticity in the face of public scrutiny.

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Notable Quotes:

• Holly Madison [07:07]: "It gets better over the years... it was more like that kind of a thing."

• Holly Madison [33:03]: "...being on the spectrum helps me adjust my behaviors and overcome what's going on."

• Holly Madison [47:28]: "I had it up for two years."

• Holly Madison [56:39]: "I think the Playboy tunnel rumor took off."

---

Final Thoughts: Episode 9 of "Talk Tuah" offers a candid and comprehensive exploration of Holly Madison's life beyond the Playboy Mansion. Through heartfelt storytelling and honest reflections, Holly provides listeners with a nuanced understanding of the challenges and triumphs associated with fame, personal growth, and navigating modern digital landscapes.

Transcript

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[Holly Madison]

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[Chelsea]

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[Holly Madison]

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[Holly Madison]

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[Chelsea]

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[Holly Madison]

Was a total game changer.

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[Frankie]

What's up y'all? Welcome back to Talktua. A better original, download better and play better pics. Thank you for tuning in. I hope you've been enjoying the show. Make sure you subscribe wherever you're listening now and leave me a five star review. I want to hear what you think of today's episode, so be sure to leave me a comment too. Welcome back to Talk to Like. An emphasis on it. Like can you name every single subscription you have? I know I can't name all mine. I just learned that over 74% of people have subscriptions they forgot about. With Rocket Money, I don't have to remember every subscription or worrying about forgetting any because I can see them all laid out right in front of me. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and it helps lower your bills so you can start saving. See all your subscriptions in one place and know exactly where your money's going for any you don't want anymore, Rocket Money can help you cancel them with just a few taps. And Chelsea, you know the best part? You can get alerts when bills increase in price, there's unusual spending activity, or if you're going close to over budget. Rocket Money has over 5 million users and it saved over $500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when using all the app's premium features. Stop wasting your money on things you don't use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to RocketMoney.com Talktua that's RocketMoney.com Talktua today we have Frankie and then we got Apollo and then Ms. Holly Madison.

[Holly Madison]

Hi. I love having the dogs here. It's so zen vibes.

[Frankie]

It feels like a homie kind of.

[Holly Madison]

Oh, it does. Don't knock them.

[Frankie]

Don't put your snoot in my coffee.

[Apollo]

Wait, wait, you gotta give her her gift first.

[Frankie]

Oh, I have a gift? Yes.

[Holly Madison]

Oh, my God.

[Frankie]

I actually almost forgot.

[Holly Madison]

Oh, my God, that's so cute. I love it. Talk to a24. Get out and vote.

[Frankie]

It has nothing on your hoodie you have on, though.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah, I have my Donald Duck hoodie with the. It has the devil horns. So.

[Frankie]

Got Spooky Donald.

[Apollo]

Oh, I love that.

[Frankie]

Yeah, I come across something you have. It's like a. What was it? Playboy murders. Yeah, I'm fixing to start watching that. I'm so curious about it.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah, I love doing that show. I love telling those stories. We just cover a bunch of murders that took place kind of within the Playboy world. It was such a big company. There were so many people that worked as bunnies in the clubs across the country. So you're going to find, you know, stories within these people.

[Frankie]

That's kind of scary, though.

[Holly Madison]

It is very scary because every story is so completely different. You know, the murders happen. You know, some of the people we talk about that were in the Playboy world were the perpetrators. Some were the victims. And we're recording the third season now, so it's like there's so many stories.

[Frankie]

Did you ever get scared while you were in the mansion?

[Holly Madison]

Not about things like that. When I was there, it was more like drama. And it was a lot of competition and a lot of, like, weird rules, like you leave the house after 9 o'clock and things like that. So it got really depressing for me. So it was more like that kind of a thing. I, you know, I felt safe inside the mansion. Like there was security and, you know, it was a gated property and things like that, so I didn't feel like I was in danger of being murdered or anything.

[Frankie]

Well, that's good. So I know you could have like a few girlfriends. Were you allowed to have like a boyfriend or anything?

[Holly Madison]

No, no, that was totally against the rules a lot. Most of the girls did, though. I think Bridget and I were the only ones who didn't. We just weren't interested in dating around. But everybody el kind of did on the side and kept it on the down low.

[Frankie]

Oh, and didn't tell him?

[Holly Madison]

Yeah, but he would get pissed if he found out. Like, there was, right before I moved in, there was a girl who's having sex with one of the butlers on this couch that was like. There was this living room that would turn into a movie theater. Like, the big screen would come down from the ceiling and there was this, like, tiger print couch behind it. And she was having sex with this butler on the couch. Right. And so that was a big drama and scandal. And then none of the girlfriends were allowed to, like, fraternize with the butlers after that. Like, we weren't supposed to, like, hang out in the pantry or, like, talk to them too much.

[Apollo]

What happened if he did find out, though?

[Holly Madison]

People would get kicked out. And when I first moved in, I would see people, like, somebody left to go, like, visit their family, but then another girl ratted them out and said, no, she's really seeing a boyfriend. So all her stuff in her room just got packed up in boxes and, like, sent out the back gate and, like, wasn't allowed in. And it was like this big, like, shameful drama, you know, in that community. And it was like, she's gonna get, like, DNA, which stands for do not Admit. But I didn't know that because I was brand new and I was like, DNA. Like, are they swabbing her DNA?

[Frankie]

Like, what are we doing with it?

[Holly Madison]

So it just seemed so, like, I was 22 when I moved in there and everything just seemed so dramatic and crazy. And then I got to the point where I was kind of terrified of, like, being kicked out at any moment because I didn't really have anywhere to go in la. So it was just a whole, like, whirlwind.

[Frankie]

I'm glad I'm getting to ask you this because, like, I would have assumed, like, all the girls, like, stuck together and they had each other's backs, but they would, like, tell on each other a hundred percent. That's horrible.

[Holly Madison]

It got better over the years. Like, it Got to the point where there were only three girlfriends instead of seven. And I really started to take the initiative because, you know, anytime somebody would come to test for playmate of the month, they would stay in the guest house at the mansion and they would come out with us and stuff. So it got to the point when a new girl would arrive. I volunteered to, like, give them tours and, like, show them around and introduce myself. So that kind of got everything off on a better foot. And then everybody started becoming friends and, like, getting along, and there wasn't really the competition. But when I first moved in, it was an absolute disaster. It was just, you know, everybody was trying to backstab the other one and get the other one kicked out, and it was just a nightmare.

[Frankie]

Girl shouldn't be like that.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah. It's too much.

[Frankie]

And like, especially if, like, you're all together. Yeah, y'all need to stick together.

[Apollo]

But they're all dating the same man, right?

[Holly Madison]

Yeah.

[Frankie]

Yeah. How did that work?

[Holly Madison]

Not well. Not well.

[Frankie]

I get very jealous. I don't know about you, but I couldn't share a man.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah. Well, I think it started out everybody was okay with it because everybody kind of gets into it as, like, a transactional relationship. Nobody's, like, thinking they're in love or anything like that. But Hef and I got really co dependent and enmeshed, and it kind of just turned into a relationship between just us near the end. And Bridget and Kendra were there more for, like, the show and hanging out and stuff. So things got a little more chill. But in the beginning, it was a nightmare.

[Frankie]

Hectic.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah.

[Frankie]

What was Hugh like?

[Holly Madison]

Every day, our world gets a little more connected, but a little further apart. But then there are moments that remind.

[Frankie]

Us to be more human.

[Holly Madison]

Thank you for calling Amica Insurance. Hey, I was just in an accident. Don't worry. We'll get you taken care of. At Ameca, we understand that looking out for each other isn't new or groundbreaking.

[Frankie]

It's human.

[Holly Madison]

Ameca empathy is our best policy.

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[Holly Madison]

Hey, Google, turn it up. Okay.

[Frankie]

Turning up the volume.

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[Holly Madison]

He was a multifaceted character for sure. He was somebody that, in the beginning, I really looked up to and was really impressed by by, because he'd done so much and accomplished so much, and he had such a community of friends that just loved him, and I just thought he was, like, the greatest person ever. But then over the years, my eyes started to open with, like, how manipulative he was with the girlfriends. And, you know, there was so much drama in the beginning, and I always just blamed it completely on the other women and thought everybody else was the problem. And Hef was so great. But then as the years went by and one of the reasons I decided to leave was it just became more and more obvious to me that he was, like, loving, that people were, like, fighting or he thought it was fighting over him. And so he would kind of, like, encourage it and stuff, and other girls would come back to me and, like, tell me things that he said. So that was one of the reasons I left.

[Frankie]

So he was playing y'all against one another?

[Holly Madison]

Totally. 100%.

[Frankie]

I hate men.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah.

[Frankie]

That right there is, like. That makes me so mad.

[Chelsea]

Holly, when you girls come to the house or you agree to do anything with Hugh at the house or anything like that, are you guys under contract from that point on, once you're staying in the house?

[Holly Madison]

No.

[Chelsea]

How does that all work? So, like, you could leave and go get a new job? Or, like, were girls scared that they wouldn't be able to book anything else if they left half or kind of. What was the deal with that?

[Holly Madison]

Well, the rule was we weren't supposed to work. Like, I kept my waitressing job when I was there just because I was like, I don't know how this is going to work out. Like, I'm not going to, you know, ditch everything. But then a couple months into it, he got really jealous and told me I had to quit the job. So that was something I wasn't really aware of. When I moved in. I thought I could still go out and audition and do different things. But then once you get there and once you're in there and once you kind of feel a little bit like this is your home and you're a little bit financially dependent on the situation, you find out, well, you're not supposed to work. You're not supposed to do this. So then it gets kind of tricky because you want to save up and you want to, like, build a life for yourself. So it gets tricky like that. But we were never under any contract or anything like that, which is surprising to a lot of people, especially that he didn't have people sign NDAs, but I feel like he was so greedy to get laid and get people up into his room that he doesn't want something standing in between that he's not like, wait, you have to sign this first.

[Frankie]

So you couldn't even be your own person, really?

[Holly Madison]

No.

[Chelsea]

And what's the average age range of these girls at the time in the house? Like, how old are you guys when this is all happening?

[Holly Madison]

I was 22 when I moved in. I think there was one other girl who was my age. And at the time, the other five girls were a little bit older, like, more in their late 20s. But women who are coming to try out for playmate and stuff, they were usually anywhere from, like, 18 to 25. And there were girlfriends who were, like, 18, 19 at different times, too.

[Frankie]

Did he have, like, a certain age? Like, say, you get to be 32? Would he, like, kick you out if you got to a certain age?

[Holly Madison]

There wasn't anything like that. Like, he did have some older girlfriends at some point. And when I say older, I mean, like, early 30s. So there wasn't, like, technically that age range. But I would see a lot in the notes when it came to, like, women who are trying out for playmate. Like, the editors would write, like, oh, she's 28. Like, that's like, watch out. Like, she. She's getting too old. So.

[Frankie]

So he liked him young.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah, for sure.

[Frankie]

Come on now. I bet he had really cool parties, though.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah, the parties were super fun, especially back then. They were really exclusive and hard to get into. And I was just, like, in college and working at a restaurant, and some of the girls at the restaurant, like, the really cool ones, got to go to those parties. So I thought that would be so cool to get to go. And I was working for Hawaiian Tropic, and one night at one of the events, Hef's doctor came, and he wanted to invite all the girls to the party. So I was so excited I got to go because I'd never seen anything like it. It was just this huge, beautiful party. And, you know, you'd see, like, different celebrities there and people you recognize from tv. And, you know, it was the cool party in town everybody wanted to go to, and it was hard to get in. And back then, like, nobody had cameras on their phones or anything like that. So everything felt very, like, private and exclusive. Yeah. And something you could go tell your friends about the next day. That all changed when everybody got smartphones. Then the parties were not cool anymore. And it's crazy how something like that just makes such a huge difference and ruins everything.

[Frankie]

It does ruin everything.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

Did that kind of change, do you think, the entire business model for Playboy once the Internet and smartphones came out? Cuz, I mean, Prince is obviously kind of dead. Because I feel like back in the day, no one turned down Playboy nowadays. Haley turned down Playboy like, two days after her video went viral. And it's like, I feel like that's something that wouldn't have happened in the early 2000s or before. No one said no.

[Frankie]

I feel like I'm not comfortable in my own skin like that. But anybody else can go out there and do it. Cuz, like, I'm not against. I like looking at it. I hate to say, like, the little outfits and stuff. I'm like, oh, that's cool. And I watched. Have you ever watched the House Bunny?

[Holly Madison]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Frankie]

She was in it. Who told me? Who told me?

[Apollo]

In the House?

[Frankie]

Funny. What do you mean, has he ever watched?

[Holly Madison]

I was in it for, like, a couple scenes. Just briefly. Like, we would be, like, standing next to half and have a few lines of him. Like, I didn't have a character or anything. I was just kind of playing myself.

[Frankie]

I'm gonna have to watch that again. I watched like 10 times, and I never paid attention to that. They're like, she was in it. And I was like, where? I was like, oh, she was Shelly.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah.

[Frankie]

I had to do my research. And then it popped up last night. What were we watching? And it popped up. There was a scary Movie that popped up, like scary movie 3. And then there was a house bunny. I was like, there's no way she was in Scary Movie. There's no way.

[Holly Madison]

No. I was in the very beginning. We had a scene with Charlie sheen, scary movie 4. That was the one I do not pay attention to.

[Frankie]

I'm learning so much.

[Holly Madison]

I think it was right at the beginning of the movie, though. It was like the opening scene. I think if I remember correctly, we're.

[Frankie]

Gonna sit down and watch those tonight, and I'm gonna be looking for you. I'm so curious. Hey, y'all. I mentioned last episode how easy Better Picks is to play, but I wanted to show you exactly how to do it. All you got to do is download the better app on your phone, then go in there and pick your favorite players, pick more or less on their projections, lock in your lineup. Now you have a chance to win up to a thousand times your money. That's it. You're done. It's literally that simple. And now that Football Sunday just become a thousand times more fun. Now download better and play better picks now went up to a thousand times your money.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah. Should we talk about, like, the alleged trafficking tunnels that everybody's talking about online?

[Frankie]

Yes.

[Holly Madison]

Okay. So, like, I've been seeing all these tiktoks that people have been tagging me in, because, of course, like, the whole P. Diddy thing is breaking, and his house was a couple blocks down from the Playboy Mansion, like, pretty close. And now everybody's saying that there's trafficking tunnels underneath the two houses, and it's not true. I can tell you where, like, the rumor got started, but it's this big rumor that's going around. So, like, in 2015, Playboy thought it would be cool to, like, start this quirky little rumor that there were, like, hidden tunnels underneath the mansion that, like, went to, like, some old 70s actors houses, and they have these, like, fake blueprints drawn up, and they were doing, like, these tweets and stuff. And it was for April Fools. They did it, like, before April Fools, but that was, like, right before everybody kind of went QAnon. And then people, like, latched onto that rumor, and people think it's real. And now that, like, the P. Diddy thing is breaking and his house is kind of close by, and there's the rumor. There's, like, the interviews with, like, Jaguar Wright, and she's kind of, like, sitting there, I think, speculating in this part of the rumor where she's, like, talking about, well, you know, like, Bill Cosby was doing all this stuff at the Playboy Mansion. And then, you know, there's tunnels that go back and forth, which I'm sure is like, she heard that. Like, everybody else heard it. But now it's, like, a thing that people are believing, and they're like, holly, you have to speak out about this. And I'm like, as far as I know, there were no tunnels. And I was snooping around every corner.

[Frankie]

Of that fucking out, too.

[Holly Madison]

I had a lot of time on my hands. It was like Beauty and the Beast when Belle is, like, into the west Wing and she's not supposed to be there. Like, I was looking for anything and everything.

[Frankie]

I'd be curious, too, though, if I was in, like, a big house like that, I'd be like, okay, well, what's in here? What's in there? Totally wasn't there in the house.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah, there was the grounds. There was a zoo. We had, like, monkeys and different birds and things like that.

[Frankie]

I forgot you wanted to ask her about that.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah, I Did.

[Apollo]

I heard it, and I was like, there's no way.

[Frankie]

So Hef just had, like, his own zoo?

[Holly Madison]

Yeah. He had a zoo permit, and the person who bought the house now, they kind of, like, got the permit with the house, so the animals are still there. And I love that. Yeah, I loved it. There were, like, so many exotic birds and things that I made friends with.

[Frankie]

Do they do anything with the building anymore?

[Holly Madison]

He's renovating it. Yeah, he's posted a couple pictures. I think he's doing a pretty good job. He's keeping, like, a lot of the historic accuracy, but, like, making it a little bit nicer in some places.

[Frankie]

Did you ever witness, like, anything weird.

[Holly Madison]

In there, in the house?

[Frankie]

I think I watched a podcast you done, and you said you walked. It was like, when you first got there and you walked upstairs and they're having, like, an orgy.

[Holly Madison]

Oh, yeah.

[Frankie]

I mean, was that just, like, a normal thing to see?

[Apollo]

I feel like that's normal.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah. That was, like, on the schedule, Wednesdays and Fridays.

[Frankie]

He had designated days for it.

[Apollo]

So what was, like, your experience, like, first seeing that?

[Holly Madison]

Well, I was really, really wasted, so the memory is blotchy. But, yeah, it's. It's crazy. It's a lot of. A lot of that and a lot of. I mean, everything from, like, I saw ghost shit up there. I saw, like, weird people wandering around, so.

[Chelsea]

Ghosts?

[Holly Madison]

Yeah. Yeah. And Bridget did, too. In her room. She saw a ghost.

[Frankie]

If I was to walk upstairs and see, like, an orgy going on, I'd be like, I have to, like, rub my eyes back. Okay, I did see that. And I just turn around and head out. I. I don't. I don't know how I'd take that.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah, it's. It's a lot.

[Frankie]

I think it'd be something to just see, like, two people. As it is, I'm walking. I'm like, oh, my bad. And I shut the door and go on. But, like, 10 people. I don't know.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah, there was a lot going on at all times, for sure.

[Frankie]

What kind of ghost did you see in the mansion?

[Holly Madison]

Well, the first one I saw was in the gym. I was working out, and I saw a girl come out of the tanning bedroom and, like, walk around the corner. And I was new to the house at this time, and I. When I was done working out, I thought, well, I should go introduce myself to her. It's probably somebody who's, like, testing for Playmates, staying out in the guest house. And I went around the corner, and she was Gone. And I saw there were, like, mirrored, like, dance studio type walls in there. And there was, like, what looked like a cutout of a door. And that's the only place she could have gone and disappeared to. So I thought, oh, that must be another, like, secret door. Because while there might not be underground tunnels from the mansion, as far as I know, there were kind of, like, secret passages, like, within the house. Like, if you went down to the basement and, like, cut under, you could get to the gym, because the gym was, like, built underground. And that's how I had gone in one way. And then since I was new to the house and saw this cut out, I thought, oh, that must be another. I'll check that out later. I gotta go do whatever. So next time I was in the gym, I'm like, I want to see where this other secret passage goes. So I go and I pop the door open. And it was just a really shallow closet that was full of stuff. So I'm like, where did that girl go? I never saw her again. And then Bridget saw an apparition in her room one night. She had just got a new puppy, and it was her. Her sister and this other girl were in her bedroom. And they all saw this woman with, like, stringy black hair, like, appear in the doorway to the bathroom and then disappear. And all three of the girls saw it.

[Frankie]

I would have packed my shit out of.

[Holly Madison]

Right.

[Frankie]

I can't do that. Walked around with some sage burning. Be gone. Yep.

[Holly Madison]

So creepy.

[Frankie]

I wonder if they, like, died in there.

[Holly Madison]

I don't know if anybody died in there, but I don't feel like if somebody has to die in a house for it to be haunted, I just feel like their energy wants to wait.

[Apollo]

Did you share a room with any of the other girls, or did y'all all have your own separate rooms?

[Holly Madison]

I mean, it depended on how many girls lived there at the time. For the most part, girls had their own rooms. I shared a room with half when I first moved in, though, for, like, a couple days, I lived in what would become Bridget's room with one other girl. There were, like, three beds in there at the time. And then I had my own room down the hall for a couple months. And then I moved in to Hef's bedroom. But for the most part, people had their own rooms. I think Bridget just liked having people over. And her room was always kind of like the slumber party room.

[Frankie]

Made it more homey.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah, for sure.

[Apollo]

I'm glad you and Bridget stepped together, though.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah, me too. Like, I Don't think I would have got through it without her because she was like the one other girl who I felt like was insane for a while until we started making more friends and stuff. So it's great to have somebody like.

[Frankie]

That that's kind of like me and her. Yeah, we've been together since the beginning of this. That's how it's going to end too.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah, I think that's what saves you, you know, when you're going through like all this exposure and this crazy wild ride, it's like holding on to your friends and your old friends that know you.

[Frankie]

How long have you and Bridget been friends?

[Holly Madison]

22 years. It was just her birthday yesterday and I did a Happy birthday Bridget. I did one of those posts with like in my story was like happy birthday Bridget. My partner in crime of. And I'm counting back on like 22 years. Damn. It's crazy.

[Apollo]

Now that Diddy's going down, who do you think's next?

[Holly Madison]

I mean, there's nobody that I personally have info on. Everybody's saying Jay Z though.

[Apollo]

Oh, I've seen that too.

[Holly Madison]

That's like the gossip.

[Apollo]

Him and Jay Z were friends though, weren't they?

[Holly Madison]

Did he.

[Frankie]

I saw a thing where like, like.

[Holly Madison]

I think that's why people think he might be the next go down as allegedly they were like involved or something.

[Frankie]

Yeah, I saw something where it was talking about him and Beyonce like covering it up for Diddy.

[Apollo]

Yeah, I've seen that too.

[Frankie]

I don't know what they're covering up though. Like, I mean, everything's kind of out in the open. I mean he likes his baby oil.

[Holly Madison]

People have been asking me to comment like on the tunnels specifically about the P. Diddy thing. I never went to any of his parties or anything like that. I probably, I think I probably have a picture with him somewhere, like crossing paths at like a nightclub. You know, I've been at like dinners he's at but when you're around somebody casually you don't see like the down and dirty that you're doing you. That they're doing. You know what I mean?

[Frankie]

So they said he had like freak offs too.

[Apollo]

Yeah, that's what the baby oil was for.

[Chelsea]

He bought it in bulk at Costco, but he buys everything in bulk. So that's the defense they're using right now. It's not that weird.

[Frankie]

Okay, but what are you going to use that much baby oil for?

[Holly Madison]

Yeah, what's an adult eating baby oil for? But once a vagina gets involved, like no baby oil, it's so bad for you. Like absolutely.

[Frankie]

Oh yeah, that's what I was thinking.

[Holly Madison]

I was like, ah, it's gonna throw off your ph so hard.

[Frankie]

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[Apollo]

Yeah, that was great. Our seats were amazing too.

[Frankie]

I just love going to live events so much, especially football games. Here, let me get my phone and go on the game. Timeout. Oh, we should try to get tickets for the next Tennessee game.

[Apollo]

Oh, can you see when the Titans are playing at home next? I bet NFL games are fun too.

[Frankie]

Yeah, good idea. But you know what I love about game time? You can see the views from your seats before you buy the tickets.

[Apollo]

Oh, that looks perfect.

[Frankie]

And Game Time also has a new feature. It's called Game Time Picks. It makes getting tickets for these events so much easier.

[Apollo]

Oh, I know what you're talking about. It helps filter everything so you can see all the deals quicker.

[Frankie]

Yep, exactly. And what's cool about it is even if we don't want to get these Tennessee tickets now, we can get last minute deals right up to the start of the event and even an hour after it starts.

[Apollo]

That's great. And we are in LA right now. So what should we do tonight?

[Frankie]

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[Apollo]

Game time. What time is it?

[Frankie]

Game time.

[Chelsea]

So the parties at the Playboy Mansion, was there, like, a strong buffer between Hef's girlfriends, you guys, and, like, other. Like, let's say if a pro athlete walked in and he thought you were cute and wanted to talk to you, would security put an end to that right away if you guys started fraternizing or how did that kind of whole thing work?

[Holly Madison]

I think so, yeah. I mean, there were some girls who would, like, get around it or, like, exchange numbers, just kind of, like, on the low or whatever. But most guys wouldn't really approach us if they saw that we were at the table with Hef because they just kind of knew, like, that's the boundary. And when people ask me about, like, you know, crazy I saw at the parties, I didn't see a lot of crazy at the parties because you wouldn't think this, but when people were, like, around half, like, where he would sit at the party, people would behave a lot because they wanted to be invited back.

[Frankie]

Yeah.

[Holly Madison]

Like, you'd kind of have to be at the other end of the party without him to kind of see, like, the crazy go off.

[Frankie]

I thought that'd be kind of fun. Yeah, but you're always with hip, so that's probably why you never saw that.

[Holly Madison]

Totally. Like, I went to parties before I was with him. I was invited to some parties, but even then, like, I didn't see too much. I would never stay that late, and I wouldn't see crazy shit. But then I would hear other people tell me about, like, what was going on at the other end of the party.

[Frankie]

So how did you get to be, like, his favorite girl, like, his main girlfriend?

[Holly Madison]

I think part of it was just my personality suited his a lot. Like, I like to stay in and watch movies. And, you know, I got really involved in the magazine, too. I started working as a photo editor. So we bonded over a lot of, like, common interests things.

[Frankie]

Okay.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah.

[Frankie]

I bet he is a nice guy. Well, besides his manipulative ways, would you ever go back and do it again?

[Holly Madison]

You know, people ask me that all the time, and it's a weird question to answer because I don't know if they mean, would you Just go back and, like, change it? Or would you have to, like, put your consciousness back in your old body and, like, go relive it in real time? Because if it was like, relive it in real time, I don't think I'd want to because there were so many, like, bad years. Like, things kind of got good when the reality show started filming, but that was about halfway through my time there, and I wouldn't want to, like, redo it again. I would find something else to do. But as far as, like, going back and, like, changing anything that I don't like or anything I find unsavory, I wouldn't do that because I feel like I learned so much from it, and I like where I ended up, and I feel like I can make lemonade out of lemons.

[Frankie]

Yeah.

[Holly Madison]

So. Yeah.

[Frankie]

So you were still in the house when you started doing your reality show. What did he think about it?

[Holly Madison]

He loved it because he loved attention. He loved being famous. He loved staying relevant. Like, you wouldn't necessarily think that's the case because he was such an iconic person. You'd think he'd kind of be secure in that. But no, no. Like, he loved going out and getting attention at the nightclubs. He just loved all of that. So when the show blew up, he was super into it. In fact, like, orgies and shit stopped because he wasn't, like. He wasn't looking for, like, the validation and trying to, like, get as many go out to nightclubs and, like, many girls. Yeah. But once he's getting attention off the show, he's. He was, like, so happy with that and so busy with that. That. That was kind of like what everything was all about.

[Frankie]

Did he have a boat or anything? He'd take y'all on.

[Holly Madison]

No, he didn't have a boat. Yeah, he wasn't into leaving the house. It was really hard to even get him to travel. Like, we started traveling a little bit for the show, but it was only for the show. Like, he. It was so hard to get him to travel. Before that, it was only for things. Like, if the magazine was having, like, its 50th anniversary and they want him in New York, like, he'd go, but it was really hard to get him to leave the house.

[Frankie]

He gives me, like, mysterious vibes. Like, he wears, like, a trench coat or something.

[Holly Madison]

No, I can totally see that. Like, he always tried to present himself like he was such an open book, and in a way, he was, but in a way, he wasn't too. Like, he had his ways of like, you know, treating people behind closed doors and so. Yeah. Very mysterious.

[Frankie]

How old was he when you got in the house?

[Holly Madison]

76. Super old.

[Frankie]

Wow. Yeah, he got around good too, didn't he?

[Holly Madison]

Oh, oh, wait, like, how do you mean?

[Frankie]

Well, I can't say physically because, you know, you don't.

[Holly Madison]

You mean like walk without, like.

[Chelsea]

Is he able to walk down the stairs?

[Holly Madison]

Yeah, yeah, no, he could like walk and stuff and like go out, go out to nightclubs and things like that. Like, he always complained about backpack pain and things like that. But I feel like for a 75 year old, he's a pretty young 75 year old.

[Frankie]

So he took care of himself.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah.

[Frankie]

Did he let y'all go shopping?

[Holly Madison]

Yeah, I mean, we were expected to have go out all the time, so we always wanted different outfits and stuff. And we were given like a clothing allowance of like a thousand dollars a week. But we also really wanted to save, or at least I did, because, you know, I'm young and I'm trying to like make a life for myself or whatever. So I'd always go like bargain shopping like I was when they first started filming the reality show. The producer was like, I know we have to film like a Beverly Hills shopping stor free. I'm like, are you gonna pay for it? That's not my budget. Like, I would always try and save like at least half of everything and then I'd go shopping like downtown or on Melrose or like really cheap places.

[Frankie]

That's smart though. Did any other girls try to save like that?

[Holly Madison]

I think so. I think, you know, Bridget and Kendra were both pretty reasonable. It was more like when I first moved in, the girls that were already there were the ones that would go out and like spend more on like designer clothes and stuff. And I'd buy a few nice things here and there, like a purse or whatever. But I also really tried to save and like, just get creative with my clothes and stuff and buy stuff that I liked but save money.

[Frankie]

Hey, you can still find cute stuff on the thrift store.

[Holly Madison]

Totally. Always.

[Frankie]

Well, besides the one Johnny took us to the other night, I was like, what in the hell is that?

[Apollo]

Yeah, that was weird.

[Frankie]

You like that cat skirt I found?

[Apollo]

You should have got it.

[Frankie]

I should have.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah. Thrifting is so hit or miss.

[Frankie]

We don't really have a lot of thrift stores where we're from. We have like Goodwill, but there ain't in there. And you, like, itch when you come out. Oh, no. You're like, okay, that's unusual.

[Holly Madison]

Pookie's older, isn't he?

[Frankie]

Pookie? Pookie's not that old.

[Holly Madison]

Who's Pookie?

[Chelsea]

Hayley's secret boyfriend.

[Frankie]

Yeah.

[Holly Madison]

You have a mystery man.

[Frankie]

I got a mystery.

[Holly Madison]

I love having a mystery man. I'm talking to somebody right now and I'm keeping him a mystery man for as long as possible.

[Frankie]

When did we watch that podcast?

[Apollo]

Which one?

[Frankie]

I was so enthused. I was sitting there giggling. Cause this girl was asking about your boyfriend. You're like, oh, we broke up two weeks ago. You were so nonchalant about it. I was sitting there giggling. I was like, I need to be like that.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah, well, it was a long time coming. It was like a five year relationship that was like really off and on. So by the time we finally broke up, I was pretty like, well adjusted about it.

[Frankie]

You're like, oh, fuck yes.

[Holly Madison]

And we're still cool and like we get along and stuff. So it was a non dramatic breakup. That's good.

[Frankie]

How'd you like get out of it though?

[Holly Madison]

I caught him cheating. That's a pretty good excuse.

[Frankie]

That is. I think I've used that. I was like, all right, bye.

[Holly Madison]

I was mad about it, but like, I was more mad for like the person I was. Cause when I found out he cheated, it was like it happened like a year ago. And like the girl had been done with it for a while and she just kind of got this like attack of conscience out of nowhere to tell me. So I was more like sad for myself back then. Cause I was thinking back to that summer and like how in love I was in that summer and how like we would go on these vacations together. And then like the second my back was turned, he was with somebody else. So I was more like mad about that.

[Frankie]

But I'd have been kicking myself in the the ass too.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah.

[Frankie]

But I bet it was like a relief though, when you got rid of him.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah, I mean, I'm super, super busy. So honestly, like making time for a relationship, even if it's like driving 20 minutes to go to his house, like, it kind of frees up some time to be real.

[Frankie]

Yeah. You can start reading you a book or canon. Got to go see no man. But you got a new man now, right?

[Holly Madison]

Talking to somebody.

[Frankie]

How's it going?

[Holly Madison]

Well, we're still on the talking stage, but I'm happy about it for now.

[Frankie]

Good deal. You got babies too, don't you?

[Holly Madison]

I do. I have an 11 year old and an 8 year old. Oh, yeah. Boys and girls, a Girl and a boy.

[Frankie]

Oh, you got the best of both worlds.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah, they're awesome. They're like such perfect kids. I don't know how I got so lucky. Like, I don't have any drama with them. Just trying to get them to do their homework is, like, the most dramatic thing.

[Frankie]

That is definitely a hassle. I hated doing homework. I don't think I'd done it. Half the time I get there in class and I'm like, yep, yep. It comes in handy, having a normal life. Like, when you're a kid, like, you just get to worry about being a kid. You don't have to worry about nothing. Nothing else.

[Holly Madison]

I think so too. Like, I'm so grateful. I grew up in Alaska, and it was just a lot of, like, playing in the woods and things like that.

[Frankie]

So you grew up in Alaska?

[Holly Madison]

Yeah.

[Frankie]

What was your childhood like?

[Holly Madison]

It was very, very isolated. We lived in southeast Alaska, and by the time I was in kindergarten, we lived in a town, a really, really small town. But before that, we would live in, like, logging camps and sometimes didn't even have running water. So it was very Little House on the Prairie. And then by the time I was 10, we moved to Oregon, which I didn't like as well. That was very, very normal. But, like, I missed being in Alaska. I missed being in nature and being, like, in this really small town where everybody. But I was, like, undiagnosed autistic too. So I had a little bit of difficulty relating to people and connecting with people. And somehow, like, being in a really, really small town just was so much more. Less judgmental. And being with the same people my whole life was really helpful.

[Frankie]

So when did you get diagnosed?

[Holly Madison]

Just last summer. Really?

[Frankie]

How do they diagnose it?

[Holly Madison]

Well, you have to do. I did mine over zoom. I finally found a doctor that did it because it's really hard to find a doctor that will do it for adults. And we did, like, seven different sessions over zoom. And they do all kinds of tests on you. And the tests are interesting. It's everything from questions to they'll show you a picture of people's eyes, and you have to tell them what expression you think it is, because sometimes being on the spectrum, you have a really hard time reading people's faces. And they would do things like they would did an appointment with my ex husband, an appointment with my mom to get their breakdown on how they had experiences interacting with me or, like, what they observed in my childhood or being married to me.

[Frankie]

So does it affect your daily life or anything?

[Holly Madison]

I Felt like it did, but I didn't really understand it. I always thought that there was something a little off with me. Like I didn't understand why I was so introverted or why I would have trouble, you know, interacting with people. I just always thought, well, okay, I'm like different in some way and I didn't really get it. But now that I understand what's going on, it helps a lot. And I feel like I can adjust my behaviors and kind of like overcome what's going on. Like throughout my whole life. They would say like, oh, make eye contact. And I'd know that's something I was supposed to do. But I never really did it until I got diagnosed. Yeah, yeah, that's crazy for me. You know, I. It wasn't a conclusion I came to. It was something that when I was getting a divorce a few years ago, my ex husband was talking to my mom about it about just some of my behaviors and things. And she said that she always suspected I was on the spectrum. She used the term Asperger's, which isn't like a term people like to use anymore, but it's term for like high functioning autism. And then I looked online and was looking at what the symptoms were and I thought, this sounds exactly like me. So I became more and more intrigued and I started talking about it a little bit. Because when I would, you know, share my story in interviews, I would look back on choices I made when I was younger. And knowing what I know now about being on the spectrum, those choices make a lot more sense. Not that I'm trying to blame my choices on being autistic, but it makes sense that I would feel like I can bond and be in love with like an older person who's really good at like manipulating and working people. Because when I was younger I felt like I never connected to guys my age at all. So I always felt like, oh, people don't like me or there's something wrong with me. And now I finally met this man that understands me, you know. But looking back, I think it's just I wasn't connecting because neurologically I'm a little bit different.

[Frankie]

That's okay though.

[Holly Madison]

But once I started talking about that, I thought I really need to get a diagnosis because it's not really responsible, I think, for me to be going out and talking about. And I'm not putting down people who are self diagnosed because like I said, it's hard to find somebody who actually does a diagnosis. And I'm somebody who has money and resources and Things and it was hard for me to find somebody. So I'm not putting down self diagnosis, but I thought for me, if I'm really out here talking about it, I should really get a diagnosis and see what's up.

[Frankie]

Do you have to get, like, medicine or anything for it?

[Holly Madison]

No. I mean, not for me. That wasn't a treatment. I take Wellbutrin for depression. I'm pretty open about that.

[Frankie]

Yeah, I think more people should be open about that.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah. Oh, I think so, too. I'm all about talking about mental health. Like, I remember not so long ago, just a couple decades ago, it was so stigmatized. Or I remember, like, 10 years ago, I was dating this asshole guy and I broke up with him, and I was messaging him to, like, get some of my stuff back, and he had this new girlfriend who was really jealous and, like, getting into his phone, and she was, like, writing me this really mean text, like, slamming me. And she's like. Because when we broke up, it was like a public breakup. So we had said it was because our schedules are different. Because that's kind of what you say when you're just trying to be neutral. Not this guy's a raging asshole, but this girl, his new girlfriend, like, sent me this long text, like, slamming me. And then she's like, and I know why you really broke up. It's because you're on antidepressants. At the time, I wasn't even on them. I had. I told him I'd confided him that I had been at one time, and that wasn't why we broke up. But that's like him going out and talking and trying to make me sound like I'm crazy. Like, I was on antidepressants at one point, like, right off. So I love talking about, how's she.

[Frankie]

Gonna put you down over that? Like, I would have showed up to our house with, like, a sock with a rock in it, and I just went to town on her ass. Because that.

[Holly Madison]

It's just insecurity.

[Frankie]

That's all it is. Girls shouldn't be like that at all. I hope she listens to us and she's like, oops, maybe she'll send you, like, a letter and apologize.

[Holly Madison]

I mean, I hopeful. Hopefully she's grown up.

[Apollo]

Holly, I seen you brought up Haley in one of the recent podcasts.

[Holly Madison]

I did.

[Apollo]

That was really sweet.

[Holly Madison]

That was sweet because I saw the Bill Maher interview, and I thought, you know, I know for you how new this all is and how intimidating interviews can be, and I just thought it was interesting how, you know, his immediate idea for you was to do a second podcast, which, if you wanted to do that, absolutely nothing wrong with that. But I think it's interesting how, you know, your viral moment happened to be a funny comment that was related to sex. But because you're a woman, it's like people automatically were like, well, you should do only fans or you should do, you know, a sex podcast. But your comment was so normal. It was just such normal girl talk. And I feel like if a guy would have had a viral moment over that, people would have been like, oh, you're so fucking funny, you should stand up.

[Frankie]

But I'm a girl.

[Holly Madison]

It's like onlyfans and sex podcast. So I thought that was like a interesting conclusion to come to. And I think, I just think he could have kept in mind a little bit how much older he is than you and been a little more chill, in my opinion. He used to make jokes about me being a whore back in the Playboy days, so that was a lot of fun.

[Chelsea]

Did he ever go to the mansion?

[Holly Madison]

All the time. In fact, we joke about it on our podcast because we do a rewatch podcast about Girls Next Door. And every time they show a party montage, they're like, they'll have one of us comment in the confessional. There were so many celebrities there and they always kind of show the same people. And it's always like, Bill Maher and Paris Hilton are the two. They always show. But we just start joking that, like, nobody's gone to his imdp, IMDb and like, entered it. But if you entered all his guest spots on Girls Next Door, it might rival, like his other catalog of stuff because it was a lot.

[Frankie]

I feel like such a dumbass. Like, after I talk to him, nobody told me he liked younger girls. I tried to hook him up with my granny. No, he, like, looked at me like I was crazy, what I was talking about.

[Holly Madison]

And I remember him saying, like, oh, if you know anything about me. And I'm thinking, what, that you're so cool, you only date 20 year olds?

[Frankie]

Exactly. And I was like, what does he mean by that? I was like, what's he got against Granny? What's wrong with Granny? You know, Little did I know he likes younger women. I had no idea. And that, like, I had no idea who I was going to talk to. They're like, yeah, it's Bill More. How do you say his name? More. Mayor Martin.

[Apollo]

More.

[Frankie]

More. I was like, oh, okay, this older man, we're gonna hit it off because I blend in really good with old people. I'm an old soul and I live with my granny. I get there, he took me for a spin. I wasn't ready for that.

[Holly Madison]

Well, you know what, you handled it so well though. You were so composed and so chill and didn't say anything regrettable. So congratulations.

[Frankie]

I tried to. I was fighting demons not to hit that joint he had. It's like, you want that? I was like, nope. And then he gave me a history lecture. I hated history in high school. So I said, I was like, alright, wrap it up, Bill, wrap it up. And it was just me and him and his man cave. Like, I couldn't see anybody else. And I was like, oh, well, I guess I could stare at the floor for a minute.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah, it's the worst when interviews get awkward because they're long form. Like, I remember back in the day when I used to promote stuff, it would be like 15 minutes max. You'd go somewhere and then. But now it's like if you get stuck in an awkward interview, forget it.

[Frankie]

Yeah, you're done for. You just gotta sit there and listen to it. Guys, quick reminder, Talk to is brought to you by Better Picks. Better Picks offers an easier way to win up to a thousand times your money. All you need to do is make eight correct picks about your favorite players and you can turn $1 into a thousand. If you actually pull one crumpled up dollar out of your, you can turn it into a thousand. Do you know that? Download better and play better pics and enjoy the easiest way to win up to a thousand times your money.

[Holly Madison]

When I was first getting into the industry, like I was 25 when our show first came out. And when you. And back then it was so bad because back then everyone wanted to be Howard Stern and Howard Stern used to be so raunchy. So you'd have to do these things called radio tours. I don't know if these are still a thing because I refuse to do them for so long. But you're getting up at like three in the morning because you have to do the east coast feed. So you're tired and you're drinking your coffee and you're trying to be like excited to promote your show. And they patch you into different radio stations across the country, like every 10 minutes or every 10 minutes or so. And every radio host wants to be Howard Stern so bad, but they're not as funny and they're not as good at interviewing. And when you're like a girl who's dating an old man and you Live at the Playboy Mansion and you're promoting your, like, nude magazine issue. Like, the questions are so bad, and I feel like I got really good at answering them and, you know, being funny and doing it in a way that I thought Hef and Playboy would like and whatever. But it was still pretty miserable and very uncomfortable. So I hated doing press for the longest time. Hated it. Hated, hate it.

[Frankie]

But that's something you felt like you had to do, though, to get by. That's how you got into it. So I get that. And I don't see any reason as to why somebody should judge you for that. You're just trying to get by.

[Holly Madison]

It's crazy. Especially if I'm coming to the plate. Like, trying to have a sense of humor about it. Like, they could just roll with that, but instead they didn't want to.

[Frankie]

Yeah, I've had a few interviews that have made me kind of uncomfortable. Do you remember the Australian one?

[Chelsea]

Yeah. We cut it in the middle of the interview. We just closed the laptop.

[Holly Madison]

Really? What were they saying?

[Chelsea]

We prepped him, by the way, on what not to do. Go ahead, Haley. He ended up doing what to do.

[Frankie]

Yeah. They weren't supposed to ask me anything. Like, just provocative.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah.

[Frankie]

This man looks at me. We were in our hotel room and I was on the computer. I was having such a good time. The woman was so kind. And then you have this man. He goes, so how many dicks would you say you've spit on? I was like, Jamie said, oh, fuck.

[Holly Madison]

No.

[Frankie]

He jumped up, hung up.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah. It's really crazy how people think, you.

[Frankie]

Know, like, just because I cracked a.

[Holly Madison]

Joke, like, normal joke, like, people talk like that. It's normal. It doesn't mean you're, like, promiscuous or you have to be a sex expert or that's the only thing you have to talk about for the rest of your life. It's just so crazy how people react.

[Frankie]

Things have really changed. Like, you went from Playboy and now we have only fans. Like, it's such a twist.

[Holly Madison]

It's so crazy. Like, I was gonna say, like, when you got the Playboy offer, what even is Playboy now? Is it like OnlyFans?

[Frankie]

He said that it would be fully clothed.

[Apollo]

Yeah.

[Frankie]

And what else?

[Apollo]

I don't. I don't know.

[Frankie]

But still, I feel like there was, like, a catch to it, though. So I was like, no, because, like, I like the Playboy brand. Like, clothing wise, like, sweatpants and the hoodies. I was like, yeah. And I got to thinking. I was like, there's probably a catch. So that I better not.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah, and it's hard, too, because sometimes even if you're doing stuff that's not nude, people will see the brand and there's like a stigma to it. So it just depends on, like, how you want to be perceived and things like that.

[Frankie]

Just like fanfics. I do fanfics. And everybody's like, oh, you sold your soul to the devil. That's the only fans right there. No, it's not. I'm not naked.

[Holly Madison]

I posted a. Like a lingerie picture on my Instagram the other day, and somebody left a comment like, you're still selling your body. I'm like, I made no money.

[Frankie]

I'm like, and what's it to you? If that's what you want to do and what you want to post.

[Holly Madison]

I know.

[Frankie]

What's it to anybody else?

[Holly Madison]

It's so funny. And I, like, I went to go click their account to perhaps block, and it's one of those accounts where they like, obviously made the account just so they can make that comment. And it's like, I'm flattered at this point.

[Frankie]

You know, they live in their parents basement. Yeah, I have a lot of those. They're like, you're ugly. Click on their account and you're like, why does it say follow back in their profile pictures of cat or like an anime character? I'm like, okay, you live in your parents basement and you're like, 50. Okay. I don't understand people sometimes. Like, keep your negative stuff to yourself.

[Holly Madison]

I know. It's. It's so like, nobody with anything going on is leaving those comments.

[Frankie]

Exactly. They're miserable with their own lives.

[Holly Madison]

Totally.

[Frankie]

You got a few interesting dms, haven't you?

[Apollo]

Yeah, those ones are. I don't even like reading them out loud.

[Chelsea]

Can you do a couple just for fun?

[Apollo]

You want to read it out loud?

[Chelsea]

I can read it.

[Frankie]

No, let him. Let him read the one.

[Chelsea]

I'd be upset if I read this read.

[Frankie]

So it's gonna be in the past week. So I get like those group chat dms and like, they have, like, funny names on them.

[Chelsea]

So I'm like, over in your request though, like, on the other side.

[Frankie]

Yes.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah.

[Frankie]

And so I'm intrigued by them because of the names. And I'm like, okay, okay. That's kind of funny.

[Chelsea]

One sentence in. I can't read that on the podcast.

[Frankie]

That is Naked Women Sprawled Eagle in my DMs in the last two weeks. Like, I mean, sprawled eagle.

[Chelsea]

You know, it's funny when girl. Like, when my girlfriends would Tell me the wild shit that guys say to them. In my head, I would just be like, I don't know about that. You know what I mean? Like, are you just kind of making it dramatic for the story to be good? I don't know anyone who talks like that. Turns out everyone fucking talks like that after seeing both of their DMs. It's actually their head. I kind of hate this one.

[Frankie]

I think you should. I think you should read the one.

[Chelsea]

It's. It's really, it's really doesn't even want to read.

[Holly Madison]

There's a guy who like pays to send me messages on Cameo where he's just like talking sexual stuff and I'm like, keep, keep sending. I mean, yeah, I'm not gonna engage, but if you want to.

[Frankie]

The catch to the one like that DM me, it was his girlfriend's nudes I guess she sent to him, but he sent them to me. He said, this is my girlfriend and I want to send this to you.

[Chelsea]

That's poor form.

[Frankie]

Like how the hell are you gonna send your girlfriend's cooter over here to me? I don't want to see it. That's. That's yours. Keep it to yourself. Why are you doing her like that? You know?

[Chelsea]

Yeah, that's bad news etiquette. You can never shout.

[Frankie]

Didn't we get how much did that guy ask us for? A three way.

[Apollo]

60K.

[Frankie]

That's cheap. No, thank you. Yeah, I don't think you responded to that, did you?

[Apollo]

What, what would I say to that?

[Chelsea]

Excuse me, sir, we need to 4x that number.

[Frankie]

Exactly. That's what I would have said. I'm like, that's awful cheap, buddy.

[Holly Madison]

I had an only fans for a while during the pandemic. Yeah, it wasn't nude or anything. It was just like bikini and lingerie pictures. But I got to a point where I wasn't really comfortable with it because the kind of like the captions people want to write for you or like the account manager wants to write for you to like get people to click. We're starting to get kind of embarrassing and stuff like that. So I stopped doing it. But I think it's great that people can now like control their own images and make their own money. I just think for anybody trying to get into that business, they should always keep in mind that like the photos are probably gonna leak.

[Frankie]

I thought OnlyFans is a little bit better than Playboy cuz y'all couldn't have like a say so in this and that and other. But Only fans. You can post this. You can take that down if you want to. It'll probably still be somewhere, but you can take it down.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah.

[Frankie]

Or run it yourself.

[Holly Madison]

Troll of it.

[Frankie]

How long did you do it for?

[Holly Madison]

I had it up for two years.

[Frankie]

Two?

[Holly Madison]

Yeah.

[Frankie]

I feel like I could do, like, feet finding. I've had a lot of people ask me for toe pictures.

[Holly Madison]

I read something somewhere where there's something in the brain where for some people, it's like, feet almost get confused with genitals. And this is like one of those fun facts I feel stupid repeating because I know I'm not saying it right. So somebody at home look that up.

[Frankie]

So are you dating anybody? That is. I wouldn't even say dating. Talking to somebody that's like. How can I put it?

[Apollo]

In the public eye.

[Frankie]

Yeah, in the public eye, probably. Probably. Yeah.

[Chelsea]

Didn't she used to date Criss Angel?

[Holly Madison]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

Okay. You rolled your eyes. I apologize for what I'm about to ask, because I'm actually kind of a Christian. I think magic's kind of cool.

[Frankie]

Magic?

[Holly Madison]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

He's a famous man. She used to date, like, the most famous magician in the world, basically, or one of the most famous magicians.

[Frankie]

Did he ever pull you, like, flowers out of his coat or anything?

[Holly Madison]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

I wanted to know, like, what kind of cool shit does he do for his girlfriends with the magic? Like, does he, like, make, like, bunny rabbits appear or, like, does he do tricks for you guys? For you or.

[Holly Madison]

No, not with magic. Lots of jewelry and stuff.

[Frankie]

Well, what's the fun in that? Yeah.

[Chelsea]

Is there any, like, fun trade secrets we can know about the.

[Holly Madison]

I do. I do know how all the tricks are done, but I don't want to say because I feel bad, even though, like, I know people have, like, revealed it before. Like, I know a lot of magicians and stuff, so I feel bad.

[Frankie]

When I was at celebrity poker, this little guy that sat by side me, he was French. He was so cute. Dude, I should have drug him home with me. I would have paid him. Just, like, amuse me throughout the day.

[Chelsea]

Dude, don't tell God. You have a problem, by the way, with telling short guys how adorable they are. They hate that. Just so you know, cute if they're.

[Frankie]

Like, eye level with me. I'm like, oh, I just want to, like, give him a little pat on the head or I know you or something.

[Chelsea]

You ruin their week every time you do that. Just so you know.

[Holly Madison]

I think there's nothing wrong with a short guy. And I get kind of weirded Out. When do you ever see, like, Tick Tocks where girls are, like, freaking out? They're like, gross. I would never date a guy under six two. I'm like, calm down. Like, guys can't help it. Like, that would be like if a guy was saying, I would never date a girl less than a C cup. Like, people like, you're gross.

[Frankie]

Exactly. I feel like it's kind of like the same thing, though, because, like, women are like, oh, I won't date a short guy. And then you got. Most guys are like, I don't like tall girls.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah. Like, if that's your preference, whatever. But, like, you never know who you're gonna meet and connect with. And, like, don't be a dick about it online.

[Frankie]

I personally love tall women. Like Hassan, my best friend's sister, she's like, tall as. I'll get out. I love her. Like, I don't imagine her being, like, any shorter than that. Yeah, I feel like she'd look strange if she was any shorter. And it's like, oh, big sister.

[Holly Madison]

Well, when I was growing up, every girl wanted to be tall. Because that meant you could be a model.

[Frankie]

Exactly.

[Holly Madison]

That was the myth, anyway.

[Frankie]

But now my ex boyfriend, he is a little bit shorter, bless his heart. He would get so mad at me if I wore heels. When was it? Was it junior? It was either prom. It was one of our proms, I think it was my junior prom. I wore heels, and I was like, maybe this much taller than him. He had a shit fit. I was like, take him off. I was like, no, no.

[Apollo]

The pictures did look awkward, though. I was like, haley, you're gonna have to, like, scratch this.

[Frankie]

I tried. He got so mad about that, bless his heart.

[Apollo]

So you have a podcast with your friend that was in the house with you, right?

[Holly Madison]

Yeah, I do. Me and Bridget, who's on Girls Next Door with me, we do a rewatch podcast where we talk about all the episodes of the show. And of course, every time we watch an episode, we think of, like, 50 crazy stories that happen, so we have a lot of fun with it.

[Frankie]

Did you guys ever wear water bras, or am I crazy?

[Holly Madison]

Water bras? No, we didn't have water bras when I was, like, in high school. I had, like, a wonder bra and I stuffed it. And even when I, like, got my first boyfriend, like, I wouldn't really make out with him for so long, so I'm like, I have to, like, slowly take the bra down before he discovers the deception. And then by the time I was in the mansion I had my boobs done, so I didn't need, like, any kind of, like, padding or anything like that.

[Frankie]

Did he, like, recommend everybody having their boobs done?

[Holly Madison]

I had mine done before. He didn't recommend it. Like, sometimes if there was, like, a Playmate that came along that tested, he might say something like, oh, you know, she could make it if she had her boobs done. He tried to do that once when I worked at the studio, and I'm like, I don't. I don't think you should really do that.

[Frankie]

Did it hurt when you get them done?

[Holly Madison]

Yeah, it does. You know, you wake up and you feel like an elephant is sitting on your chest. But it's not awful. Like, I have a pretty high pain tolerance, and I was kind of back up and doing things in a couple days.

[Frankie]

I wonder if I could go through that. I need a butt, actually. I don't know if I'd look right if I had an ass.

[Chelsea]

You got to be careful with the bbls.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah.

[Frankie]

Yeah.

[Apollo]

I can't picture you with.

[Frankie]

I couldn't picture me with one either. I just think you'd look funny.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah. Sometimes the BBL doesn't look like it fits on the body. Like, there's no, like, flow between, like, the butt and the thighs sometimes.

[Frankie]

And, yeah, I'm just a little flat girl. I don't think I look right any other way.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. I also think, like, natural's coming back. Like, I just know, like, as a guy and all my friends, like, when we see, I don't know, maybe, like, five, six years ago, if we saw a group of girls with bbls walk into a restaurant, we'd all be like, oh, holy. Look at that. Now when we see that, we're like, oh, my God, again, another bbl. It's like, enough already. Like, where's your real ass? Like, that's like, I think the real stuff is making its way back. I don't know.

[Frankie]

See, I think men think like that. But me personally, if I'm walking down the street and I see a girl with a big ass on her, I'm gonna look. I'm no better than a man. I'm like. And she knows exactly what I'm talking about. Every time I do that, she'll turn and look. She's like, wow. Yeah, I'm no better than a man. So what was your best and your worst memory from the mansion?

[Holly Madison]

It's all so hard to narrow it down. I feel like I'm gonna say what I think they are. And then an hour from Now I'm gonna be like, no, it wasn't that. It wasn't that. Or. Or some fan is gonna call me out and be like, you lying bitch. You said this was your best moment two weeks ago. Because there's always people you can have multiple ones.

[Apollo]

Yeah.

[Holly Madison]

Okay, so considering there could be multiple, I think one of my best memories at the Mansion, I mean, one was working at the studio. I got to direct the Playmate pictorials for a couple years. And that job was just so fun and so rewarding, and everybody I worked with was so amazing. And it was fun getting to know all the girls and stuff. So that, that and anytime we had, like, a rare moment, that was like a girls day. Like, one of the trips I always talk about was Bridget's sister. Anastasia was turning 21. So we took her on this, like, road trip up through California. We went to San Luis Obispo and stayed at the Madonna Inn. And everybody got wasted and it was so much fun. So those are some of my favorite memories. Worst memory, I would say, is, like, anytime there was, like, group sex with, like, the girls I didn't get along with, it was so awful because, like, picture this horror story. You're, like, naked having sex, and there's people around you who are like. You could hear them talking shit about you and, like, talking about your body and talking about just. It's a scenario. Yeah.

[Frankie]

You're better than me. I probably would have punched a bitch in the nose. I'm like, huh, eat that. Now your nose is crooked.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah. So it was a lot of highs and lows, for sure. Those are probably, like, off the top of my head, my best and worst.

[Frankie]

So you had to be around girls that were mean to you and had to have, like, sex together.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah.

[Frankie]

But you hated each other.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah.

[Frankie]

You're one tough ass woman.

[Holly Madison]

Thanks.

[Frankie]

You were one tough ass woman.

[Holly Madison]

It's kind of traumatizing because it's one of those things you go into. And like, you know, when I was 22, I just thought I could handle anything and, like, I was this badass and, you know, I should be able to, like, have sex like a man and nothing matters and nothing hurts your feelings. But I just got in so way in, way over my head. It was just crazy.

[Frankie]

You are. You're a badass. So I thought it shaped you, who you are to be, like, now a hundred percent.

[Holly Madison]

Like, I learned so much from everything.

[Frankie]

I have fell off the arm of this chair like, ten times sitting over here. I don't know what's going on but, yes, I feel like you're a really good person because of what you've been through.

[Holly Madison]

Thank you.

[Frankie]

Of course.

[Apollo]

So what's the craziest rumor you've heard about yourself?

[Holly Madison]

Oh, that's easy. That I'm an MK Ultra Beta slave and the government has programmed me to, like, be a spy who's also, like, a sex partner. And I have handlers I don't know about. I mean, maybe. Maybe they brought me in to, like, undo the Playboy world. And I don't know.

[Frankie]

You know, I have something similar to that. You remember that print off you guys got me? And it said I was a Ukraine soldier, Israeli soldier, And I was.

[Holly Madison]

I think I saw.

[Frankie]

What the fuck? And they're like, yeah, she's got a fake accent.

[Apollo]

How'd you know?

[Frankie]

Like, I mean, I think that rumor.

[Holly Madison]

Was just something I came across online at some point. And this was, like, 10 years ago when I first saw it, and I clicked on some link, and then the link I clicked on that was supposedly, like, all the details about, like, all the clues as to why I'm an MK Ultra Beta slave and I have Disney Princess programming, whatever that is. And I was raised in Alaska on purpose, because they had to keep me isolated, away from other people. And my name is Holly because in pagan religions, the holly tree is, like, something that, like, protects you from evil. Like, that's why there's, like, a whole lore behind it. Like, Harry Potter's wand is made of holly. Like, if you look in the. So there's like, a whole. They named it Hollywood because they named the land Hollywood because the lady was supposedly a pagan. So it's like, there's all this lore. So then I click on the link that's going to tell me more lore, and then it says, your IP address has been blocked from seeing this. And I'm like, they blocked me from seeing my own lore.

[Frankie]

My thing is, how do you have so much time in your day to come up with shit like that? And it's so, like, descriptive, too. And, like, into detail. And I'm like, people want to believe.

[Holly Madison]

The conspiracy so bad. That's why, like, the Playboy tunnel rumor took off.

[Frankie]

Yeah. Here's your conspiracy theory of the day. We live in a goldfish bowl.

[Holly Madison]

You know what? I. I don't necessarily disbelieve that with, like.

[Frankie]

I don't either.

[Holly Madison]

Have you ever seen Tucker Carlson talk about, like, how he knows the scoop on aliens, but he's, like, not. I became, like, kind of obsessed with Tucker Carlson because I would see him on My fyp. And there would just be short clips of him saying, you know, the aliens. I was briefed on the aliens, but it's so disturbing, and it would, like, rock people to the core. So I can't tell anybody, which is giving me the impression, like, he thinks he's the only person equipped to handle this knowledge. So then I kind of became, like, fascinated with him. But, like, people have this theory that, like, we're really a breeding ground and our emotions are like an energy source for certain aliens, and we're like an ant farm experiment. So the gold thing could be a thing.

[Frankie]

You know how we see a goldfish? Like, or better yet, sea monkeys. You know, you can just look at them in their bowl. They never know what's going on outside the bowl. We don't know what's outside of space. What if there's something out there and we're just in, like, a big goldfish bowl?

[Holly Madison]

That's so true.

[Apollo]

So is it hard exposing people in your book and dealing with the backlash from it? Yeah.

[Holly Madison]

I mean, the backlash was really harsh because my book came out in 2015, before the MeToo movement was mainstream, and people didn't really understand why I would be talking about, like, a casting couch being problematic or why I would be talking about, like, emotional abuse or narcissistic relationships, because people weren't really talking about that in the mainstream so much back then. So the backlash was crazy. But also, as far as people who were in that world, like, I knew that nobody in that world was ever going to speak to me again, except for, like, a handful of close friends. Because even before I wrote my book, like, if I would be on social media and I would say something that was just kind of neutral about my Playboy experience and wasn't, like, hyping it up to the gods, people would get pissy at me or unfollow me, people from that world. So I'm like, I can't do anything right. I might as well just tell the truth.

[Frankie]

They're gonna have something to say regardless of the end of the day. So I think you should do whatever you want to do.

[Holly Madison]

Totally.

[Frankie]

But I feel like you needed to expose a little bit in the book so everybody understands where you're coming from.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah. Because it was like, every day, people would come up to me and ask, how's Hef? Do you miss the mansion? Oh, my God, are you so sad you're not there? Kind of a thing. And I would always, like, say nice things because I thought that was the nice thing to do. Oh, everybody's good. Everybody's fine. But it gets to a point when you have to do that every day and you're living a lie kind of. It starts to make you sick. And I'm just like, yeah, I just have to, like, tell people how it is. And nobody came up to me asking, how's Hef? After that?

[Frankie]

Good. Good. They left you alone about it. You said, I'm straight.

[Apollo]

What was your relationship like with your family when you were in the house?

[Frankie]

Oh, I wanted to ask that, too.

[Holly Madison]

When I was in the house, I didn't really tell my family what was. Was going on. Like, I told them I had moved in there, and they didn't really know what I was doing. I kind of left it vague. And then Hef had bought me a new car or leased me a new car. And then my dad came down, flew down to, like, take my old car back up because they were gonna give it to a friend, and I was giving him a tour of the mansion, and it was during the day. Hef was in the office, and he goes, oh, so does Hef actually live here?

[Apollo]

That would have been my reaction.

[Frankie]

No, dad.

[Holly Madison]

So we never really talked about stuff like that because I, you know, after getting into that relationship, like, I said, I was in over my head, and it was a relationship that I wasn't entirely comfortable with. Even when the reality show cameras started filming, I wasn't really comfortable with the idea of doing a show because I'm like. Even though I've been here a couple years, like, I don't even know how I feel about this relationship. I don't really want to blast it.

[Frankie]

Yeah. And even if you would have told your family, I feel like they wouldn't have, like, got it.

[Apollo]

I mean, they know now, though, right?

[Holly Madison]

Yeah.

[Apollo]

So what was their reaction when they.

[Holly Madison]

Like, finally really talk about it? This is awkward.

[Apollo]

I don't know.

[Holly Madison]

It is.

[Frankie]

Yeah. I don't think I'd be able to talk about it either. One of my cousins would be like, so what was it like? I'm like, well, everything you can imagine. Yeah, that's about all I can say.

[Holly Madison]

Totally.

[Frankie]

Now, if you talk to, like, a. Say, a friend or something, I'm sure you could tell them, but now your family.

[Holly Madison]

Oh, I can blast it to a pod on a podcast to a million people, but not my family.

[Frankie]

I got one more question for you. What's one moving bed that makes a man go crazy? Well, he goes crazy.

[Holly Madison]

That makes man go crazy. You know what's funny is there was this one Time. I don't know if I'm going to narrow it down to one move, but there was this one time where I was throwing a birthday party for Bridget. And somebody had told me that there was this thing called, like. It's kind of like back in the day, they used to do this thing called Tupperware parties. Where people would come over and they'd sell housewives like, Tupperware. And they'd show them, like, oh, you can buy, you know, this container for your food. And I know it sounds so weird by today's standards. But the way they would describe this back then is like, this is like a Tupperware party, but for sex toys. So I thought, how funny if that that would be this party. And it was actually what we filmed for the pilot of Girls Next Door. So it's like on the dvd, if anybody wants to look for it. And so these people came and they showed us, like, all these sex toys. And, like, this is what you can buy. And, like, this is, like what you put on your asshole to make it numb. And just all this weird shit. But there was a book they had, and it was a book. It was, like, a hundred different sex moves. And it was, like, really good stuff. Like, this is how you make it feel like he's having a threesome, even if it's only with you. And I've tried looking for this book, and I can't. I forget what it's called. I can't find it anywhere because I'm like, I could use a refresher course. And don't even try to search for it, because I've tried to search for it. And when you search for, like, sex tip books from, like, the 2000s, the ones you will find are so cringy. And I see. Swear to God, I'm not talking about any of those. It's, like, has cringy stuff in it. But there was this one book that I swear had, like, really good shit in it.

[Frankie]

Was Hugh into sex toys?

[Holly Madison]

Yeah. I mean, he had quite the collection.

[Frankie]

I mean, did you get to use them on him or.

[Holly Madison]

I think he did back in the day. I never tried to use sex toys on him.

[Frankie]

But I'm like, come here, Let me put this dildo up your ass. Holly, thank you for coming.

[Holly Madison]

You're welcome.

[Frankie]

Hey, y'all. I hope you enjoyed the show. And if you haven't gotten yourself any talk to a merch.

[Apollo]

Be sure to click the link in the description below so we can match.

[Frankie]

Tag me and talk to a while you're watching the episode and let us.

[Apollo]

Know what you think.

[Frankie]

And before you go, don't forget, subscribe to that thing.