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- [00:03]
A
I think it's also really important that we focus on teaching our kids how to use media and social media. So instead of the message being don't do this, which we know doesn't work right and is not realistic for 2025 and beyond, but really teaching them how to use it safely and appropriately.
- [00:21]
B
Hello everyone, and welcome to Talk with a Docs Wellness Briefs, a podcast offering a quick dose of healthcare information on a wide range of trending topics in under 15 minutes. Today, we'll be discussing kids and social media. According to the Pew research center, approximately 92% of U.S. teens are active on social media. And children in the US start using social media around 11 years of age. I'm Jennifer Semenza and here with me today is Dr. Elizabeth Mead. She's a board certified pediatrician practicing pediatric hospital medicine in Seattle, Washington. She's also a speaker for the American Academy of Pediatric center of Excellence on social Media and Youth Mental Health. She's the perfect guest for our topic today. Dr. Mead, welcome and thank you so much for joining us.
- [01:03]
A
Thank you so much for having me here to chat.
- [01:05]
B
This is a topic I think that a lot of our listeners, especially parents, are going to be really interested in. So let's get started. We hear all the time about the dangers of social media, but let's start by discussing the advantages of social media. Are there some positive impacts that come from social media use for children?
- [01:23]
A
There certainly are. So when we talk to kids and youth, teenagers, we're finding that a lot of them are using it for staying in touch with friends. They're sort of learning about digital literacy and citizenship and how to behave online. They're using it as a creative outlet. We often find they express a lot of creativity through digital time. And then often they're saying that they're finding communities or people who really help them feel accepted and valued and seen for who they are. And that can be enormously helpful when we're talking about this age group for whom sometimes that's really a challenge, right? Yeah.
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B
Yeah. Are there some examples that you can give us on how social media can be beneficial for children in an educational setting?
- [02:00]
A
Yeah. You know, I will go on record as saying that I don't think any educational setting needs social media or needs digital time necessarily, but there can certainly be benefits. And so lots of young people will tell us that they're using digital media or social media not just for learning on their own, but also really for collaboration on group projects or school work. I think it's also really important that we Focus on teaching our kids how to use media and social media. So instead of the message being don't do this, which we know doesn't work. Right. And is not realistic for 20, 25 and beyond, but really teaching them how to use it safely and appropriately. So how to be a good digital citizen, how to sort of identify what's good content versus bad or inappropriate, how to stay safe, and then how to kind of avoid some of those privacy and data issues that are certainly in the mix.
- [02:47]
B
That's really smart. So it's really more focusing on kind of the critical thinking skills of social media. That's fantastic.
- [02:52]
A
Yeah. I mean, we know social media is here to stay and we know that it's going to be used for educational purposes. And so I think rather than saying, well, should or we should be or shouldn't we, then it's appropriate really for us to say, how can we best use this? Right.
- [03:03]
B
You know, when my kids were younger, it was always, you know, how much time are they watching tv? But social media seems to have really replaced TV as a primary source of entertainment for kids, you know, and where they get their news. So is it any more dangerous than say, TV was for younger generations?
- [03:20]
A
Well, I think that the challenge that's different now is just that it's everywhere. So television, you had to be at home in a certain room, you know, sitting down to watch the television and often doing that with family members. Right. It wasn't just sort of by yourself. The difference now is that kids just have access to it every minute of the day in their bedroom, when they're trying to sleep at school, you know, all these places where it didn't infiltrate before. So it's not that I think necessarily the content or the platform is any more dangerous, it's just that it's so much more accessible. I think that one thing that we really are moving away from is that time based messaging. So rather than saying, you know, one hour a day or you have to put time limits on it, we're really trying to focus on how is your child using it and what are they using and are you viewing it with them? Do you sort of know what's happening in their digital life and is it taking space away from others? So instead of saying we're going to put a time limit, we really say, you know, is this something that's making your child have a good experience? Do they feel good after they use it or does it make them feel terrible? Right. Do they feel depressed after they've spent an hour on whatever platform we're talking about do they know what sort of good and appropriate content is? Do they know how to talk to you? If they come across something that's not, do they know how to behave online? Right. How are we acting with others in these spaces? And then is it taking away from other things? So is it disrupting sleep? Is it taking away from sports or school? That's sort of the messaging that we are really moving toward at this point.
- [04:44]
B
Point. What are some of the most common dangers for children on social media?
- [04:48]
A
You know, I think a lot of parents worry about things like trafficking or grooming. And while that absolutely does happen, it is not very common, thankfully. So more commonly we worry about things that are potentially less scary, but certainly worrisome. And so we certainly worry about children being bullied or having negative experiences online. And we know that that's happening. We worry about them coming across content that's inappropriate. We worry about their sleep getting disrupted. And then again we worry about it sort of crowding out other things that are important. A balanced life like physical activity or family time or schoolwork or some of those kind of in person activities. One of the real challenges with media is that there just is so much content. So in a single minute there are 500 hours of content uploaded just to YouTube. It is impossible for us to keep up with this. Right. So I think rather than trying to police and use filters, which all of that's important, the baseline fundamental thing is that we have to talk to our kids about what to do when they inevitably come across content that doesn't feel appropriate or doesn't feel safe.
- [05:50]
B
Yeah, it's really not a matter of if they're going to see it, it's what they're going to do when they do see it at some point. Yeah, yeah. Does being on social media diminish their ability for cognitive or critical thinking skills?
- [06:03]
A
There is no evidence that social media itself directly diminishes a child's or teens cognitive or critical thinking skills. But digital time can certainly displace other things that help bolster those skills. So things like sleep or real life interactions or schoolwork or educational time. I think it's also really important to note that for some kids, especially for young children, more media time definitely can impact their ability to emotional emotionally regulate and to help kind of control their emotions and just have their big feelings without becoming dysregulated. So for that reason we really do recommend limiting screens in early childhood and really trying to fill focus on real life learning and play experiences. But especially for older Kids and teens. There's no evidence that it directly negatively impacts cognitive or critical thinking skills, but certainly through some of those other pathways that I talked about, we might see an impact.
- [06:52]
B
I imagine that cyberbullying is one of those issues that's really becoming more common and more talked about. How does cyberbullying on social media impact a child's mental health?
- [07:02]
A
Cyberbullying can certainly have disastrous effects on youth mental health, unfortunately, and it's something that lots of kids are experiencing. We know that many young people are telling us that they have experienced it or they know someone who has experienced it. We know that youth who are BIPOC or LGBTQIA certainly have particularly high rates of online bullying, and they might be more at risk for some of those negative impacts as well. The most important thing I think we can do as parents is to talk to kids early and often about what that looks like, how to avoid it, or how to tell an adult if it's happening, and then how not to be a part of instigating it themselves. That's like one of the most foundational things that we can teach our kids about how to be a good citizen of the online space space.
- [07:40]
B
What are the top 3, 4, 5 warning signs that a child might be experiencing negative effects from social media use?
- [07:47]
A
3 warning signs I think parents might want to watch for when it comes to youth and social media is that, number one, your child is having a negative impact on their own emotions just after viewing or using certain media. So they might feel down, they might feel critical of themselves, or sad. These are all signs that we should be moving to some sort of different content. If we're using media, that that's not a good space for them to be spending their time. The second thing is, if media is crowding out other things that are important to a balanced life, like I keep saying it over and over, but sleep, schoolwork, time with friends, physical activity, if it's displacing those things, then we have to think about the negative impact of that and sort of how to mitigate that. And then the third one is a biggie, which I think is disrupted sleep. So particularly for older children and adolescents, we know that the vast majority of them are sleeping with their phone or device in their room and often in the bed with them, and they're getting tons of notifications and disruptions when they should be sleeping. And this is a place where I think we can have such a positive impact if we find ways to mitigate those disruptions.
- [08:44]
B
Is there a direct correlation between the amount of time spent on social media and the associated risks. I mean, do these dangers increase exponentially with greater usage?
- [08:53]
A
You know, the data here is very mixed. It's really interesting. There have been articles that have been published that have found that increasing hours spent on social media is correlated with things like depression and anxiety. And there have been a ton of studies that don't find any correlation. And so when a team of researchers really pulled all the data and all the research in the last decade to say, well, what is the overlying theme or kind of message that we're finding? What they found was that there was no conclusive evidence that time on social media really was directly correlated with these risks. So again, that's why I think we've moved away from that time based messaging to say it's maybe not so important exactly how much time your child is spending. But what are they viewing? Who are they interacting with? Are you watching it with them? Again, is it displacing these other things that are really important in life? Is it disrupting their sleep? If none of those things are happening, I don't particularly care how many hours it is, to be honest. If I have a patient who is eating a balanced diet, who's physically active, who's involved in activities with their friends, who's present with the family, I don't care if it's one hour or three hours that they're on this device, as long as all of those other things are in a good space, and as long as they're not coming across or spending their time on content that's making them feel badly.
- [10:02]
B
Right, yeah. Which is a perfect segue into the next question. Is there a danger of kids getting all of their news from social media?
- [10:09]
A
I think that there's danger in anyone getting all of their news from social media because there's so much misinformation and disinformation that's out there. So we know people use it as a news source and I think that's absolutely appropriate because it's an easy place for people to find information. Right. And it's very accessible for folks. So I don't want to discourage or say that it's not a place people should look for news. I just think it's important again to teach our kids and to teach ourselves how to find reputable sources, how to know that something is true right before we're taking it as gospel and spreading it around to other people. And that's something that I think we all can work on. And so again, this is a place Where I think education around media is actually super important for young people. That huge part of that education is teaching them how to find sources that are reputable, how to validate information, and not just to take everything that we see at face value.
- [10:58]
B
How does exposure to social media impact a child's sleep?
- [11:03]
A
So I think it's honestly less about exposure to social media, and it's more about physically having those devices in the room or using them right before they're trying to go to sleep. Absolutely. We can come across information that feels stressful or scary, and that can certainly have a disruptive impact on sleep. But the more prevalent thing, I think, is that, again, we're finding that when we talk to young people, they're sleeping with their phone in their room. Sometimes it's in the bed next to them, and they're really getting a ton of disruption. So there's, you know, adolescents get an average of 240 notifications in a day. I mean, it's wild how many notifications they're getting. And they're interacting with about 25% of those. So that's one every few minutes during waking hours. Right. So we talk a lot with our families about how to mitigate some of these things. And so that could look like, you know, if your child feels like they have to have the phone in the room with them because it's their alarm, or somebody might need to get ahold of them or whatever it is, can it be across the room? Can it be put on do not disturb? Can you at least turn off the notifications? And so one thing I have people do is to go through your apps and turn off the notifications for everything that you don't think is critical. Right. So we want to get phone calls, we want to get texts. Maybe we need to get messages from a certain person. Maybe we need to get notifications from an app for school, for example. But if we can turn off notifications for everything else, that makes a huge difference in sleep disruption. If we can get the device out of the room, fantastic. If not, at least not in the bed with us. Right. And then I think the other thing is, if we can just help kids set limits on their own. So on an iPhone, for example, you can set a social media limit for. For an hour for yourself, or you can time limit a certain app. And that can be really helpful with people at least just recognizing how much time they're spending and making changes. If they want to make changes, I
- [12:43]
B
imagine it's a great time to invest in a $10 alarm clock too, because you really don't need that function on your phone.
- [12:49]
A
Absolutely. I think too many of us are guilty of that and there are much better ways to do it. Right.
- [12:55]
B
I'm guilty of that one completely. Yeah. So let's switch and talk about strategies for parents so that they actually leave with something actionable. How can we can parents effectively monitor their child's social media usage without invading their privacy?
- [13:10]
A
This is such a tricky question and such a tricky business. I think for parents, the most important thing, I think, is to be honest with your child, to really have a conversation. At the time when you choose to allow your child to have social media, I think it's important to sit down as a family and say, these are our ground rules. Right. So you can have social media, but know that I will have access to your full account. Now, this might be appropriate for a 12 year old, maybe not for a 10, 17 year old. Right. I think as kids get older, we absolutely have to allow them more autonomy and more independence and that's really appropriate. But for younger kids, people who are not adolescents yet or who are in early adolescence, really sitting down and saying, okay, this is something that you're being granted access to. Just know that I'm going to be checking in from time to time to kind of make sure everything looks okay. That is so much better than not saying anything, going in and looking it, looking at it and finding something that you need to talk about. Because then what do we do? Do we say to our kids, I looked at this and then you didn't know I was going to do. We not tell them, but then we want to bring it up. So it really gets very challenging. So I would say, number one, being honest about what the ground rules are and making sure everyone's okay with that. And then I also think that there are certain situations where it's appropriate to just lay it on the table. So, you know, if you have come across something that you feel is truly dangerous for your child, you're concerned they're going to hurt themselves, they're going to hurt someone else, that someone else is going to hurt them, then we just do what we have to do to protect our kids. But you know, barring that, I think we, we decide what we're okay with and we really clearly communicate that to our children so that they know.
- [14:37]
B
Yeah. How can parents educate their kids about the importance of privacy and data security on social media?
- [14:43]
A
Oh, this is so important. And I think it's important for parents to do this. It's important for schools and teachers to do this, especially if they're using social media or online platforms in their classrooms. There actually are curricula that can help with this. So Common Sense Media is a fantastic organization that actually has a curriculum for how to teach our kids about this in ways that are age appropriate. So that's a resource that parents can go to and it's free. And so that's a really, really wonderful place for people to start if they're not sure where to start. But I think that it is extremely important for us to teach our kids how to be safe and what some of these concerns are and that they're really founded. We find that kids probably around age 8 to 10, somewhere in there, they can really start to kind of develop these mental mod about what looks like good and bad online behavior. And so this is the age where we find kids are really receptive to hearing, okay, here's some types of inappropriate content that you may find online. Here's what to do if you do, you know, come talk to me, talk to your teacher, whatever it is. And also to tell kids there are things that can feel creepy to you. So there are certainly data collection and privacy issues. And around that 8 to 10 year age group, kids can sort of start to grasp that. And they, it doesn't feel good to them to feel like somebody's spying on them or collecting information. And so this can be a real touch point for kids to kind to think about how do I want to have a healthy relationship with media and how do I want to use it in a way that feels good to me?
- [16:01]
B
And I think you just mentioned one resource, but can you, can you say that again and then recommend any other resources or tools for parents that want to help manage their children's social media activity?
- [16:10]
A
Yes. So the one I mentioned was Common Sense Media and they have a website, they have reviews of different movies, video games, shows for different age groups. And so that's a great resource for parents. But they also have this curriculum that really helps teach our kids about how to behave well online and how to kind of navigate some of those risks. So that's a fantastic resource. The other one that I will just shout from the rooftops all the time is that the American Academy of Pediatrics has developed a center of excellence on social media and youth mental health. I am a speaker for them, so I'm very well versed in what they do and they do just incredible work. So it's a team of researchers, pediatricians, developmental experts. They have parents and youth who are involved as well, and it's an incredible resource for families to find information. So they have information there about different media platforms. You know, a lot of us as parents are like, I don't even know what that is. Right. I don't know how to tell my child to navigate it. I've never heard of this before. They have information about some of the research that we've talked about. They have some really fun activities for all different age groups, so even young children, school age kids, and then adolescents about just how to have some of these conversations. What are some starting points, what are some games you can play with younger children to help kind of approach this in a way that's fun and light. So I just can't say enough about that. And we can put the link to that, I think, in the show notes, but that's an incredible resource for families. You can also, there's a question and answer portal and anybody can submit a question. A teenager, a parent, a pediatrician, you. Anyone can submit a question for these experts on social media and youth mental health. And they will answer the question. And then all of the questions are there in an evergreen fashion so we can all benefit from reading the answer.
- [17:48]
B
Yeah. Is social media usage or the concern of how it's being used, is that something that parents should bring up with their pediatrician if they have concerns?
- [17:56]
A
Absolutely. You know, I think a lot of parents aren't sure if this is something they should talk about with their pediatrician. And I would say absolutely, absolutely, yes. And I think more pediatricians are also getting savvy about bringing this up themselves. But, you know, appointments are short, there's not a lot of time to talk sometimes. And so sometimes it can get glossed over. So I think if you have concerns or just questions, definitely talk to your child's doctor about it. And what I would say is, absolutely, if you have concerns about what your child is viewing, how much time they're spending, or kind of what it's crowding out from their life, disrupted sleep, these sorts of things, those are absolutely great to bring up. But even if you just want to sit there and have a quick chat about, you know, I'm thinking about this, I've got a six year old. How do I sort of prime them to have this healthy relationship with media? What can I do now to set up those healthy habits? It's a great thing to bring up and just to kind of navigate that with your child's doctor.
- [18:47]
B
So let's just kind of bring this down to a bottom line. What advice would you give to parents who are concerned about their child's social media use.
- [18:54]
A
Okay, so first of all, I would say you're not alone. This is a very, very prevalent issue that people are concerned about. The most important thing is to try to talk with your kid about it first. And sometimes that is more productive than not, depending on, you know, the child and their feelings and your relationship and all of these things. Variables. But having a conversation saying, these are the things I'm worried about. Are you like finding out what their perspective is is so important. Your child may say, I'm not worried about this at all. Here's why. I'm playing sports, I'm having time with my friends, I'm spending time with the family. I'm not feeling bad about myself. This is why I think everything is fine. And that's really helpful information to have. Your child also may not have insight into the things that you're noticing. And so you may get a response that doesn't feel so productive. That feels like, I don't want to talk to you, mom, everything's totally fine. And that's maybe not so helpful. Right. But I think it's a great starting place to just have that conversation with your child to begin with. And then if you feel like you're not getting anywhere, your child's doctor again is a great place to turn. But again, I'm going to just plug the AAP center of Excellence because I think it's such a fantastic place for parents to go to get more information, to get reliable, science backed, evidence based information and to see what questions other parents are posing, what questions other youth are posing that they may be able to learn from us.
- [20:05]
B
Well, those resources sound fantastic. Thank you so much for making us aware of them.
- [20:09]
A
Yeah, absolutely.
- [20:11]
B
This conversation has been really insightful and helpful, especially for parents whose kids are on social media. Dr. Mead, thank you so much for your expertise on social media management today. Your time has been really, really well spent, I think.
- [20:22]
A
Oh, thank you. I hope it was helpful.
- [20:24]
B
I also want to thank our audience for joining us today on Talk with the Docs Wellness Brief. We look forward to continuing the important conversation on health and wellness with more experts from Providence to get continued information on other important healthcare topics. Please subscribe to talk with a doc on your favorite podcast platform and on social media. Connect with us on Facebook, TikTok and Xprovidence and on Instagram and LinkedIn under Providence Health Systems to learn more about our mission, programs and services. Go to providence.org for all of this and more. Please download the Providence app on your smartphone. And remember, the information provided during this program is for educational purposes. Purposes only. You should always consult your healthcare provider if you have any questions regarding a medical condition or treatment. Thanks for listening.