My Kids Don’t Know I Had An Eating Disorder And Might Be Strugging, Too

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "My Kids Don’t Know I Had An Eating Disorder And Might Be Struggling, Too"

Podcast: Talkaboutable with Dr. Susan Swick
Host: Lemonada Media
Episode Date: September 16, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on a candid conversation between Dr. Susan Swick, a child and adolescent psychiatrist, and a mother of two teenagers who secretly struggled with an eating disorder throughout her youth and young adulthood. The mother is now concerned her children, especially her daughter, may be experiencing similar issues. The episode navigates generational legacies of disordered eating, parental fears, and practical approaches for starting open, honest conversations with kids about body image, eating, and family mental health histories.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introducing the Family & The Source of Anxiety

• The mother describes her two teens: her daughter is creative, academically driven, and diverse in interests; her son is a tech-minded, social, athletic boy. Both are close siblings ([01:27]–[03:24]).
• The central issue: The mother, formerly anorexic and bulimic, fears that discussing her experience may do more harm than good, especially recalling how learning about her own mother’s and grandmother’s disorders worsened her own behaviors ([03:39], [10:28]).

2. The Mother’s Story of Disordered Eating

• At 10, a public comment from her father about her weight triggered self-consciousness and compulsive exercise ([03:39]–[04:40]).
• At 14-15, her mom disclosed her own and the grandmother’s eating disorders, unintentionally normalizing disordered behavior:

  “Whether she was trying to warn me or help me, the exact opposite is what happened. I was like, oh, if she cannot eat, I cannot eat too.”
  —Mother [04:43]

• She describes years of hidden anorexia and bulimia, only stopping when finding happiness and support in her adult relationship ([06:00]–[07:12]).
• Notably, she never received formal treatment—she credits recovery to newfound love and support:

  “I just stopped. I was also happy. I loved my husband and...I got better, I guess.”
  —Mother [07:19]

3. Current Parenting Concerns

• Daughter has lost a noticeable amount of weight in recent months. Historically body-positive, the girl now skips meals and shows selective eating reminiscent of the mother’s former tactics ([07:37], [11:45]).
• The mother’s son, slender and very tall, makes negative comments about his own body. She probes if criticism is external, but finds the feelings seem internal, which worries her ([07:37]–[10:00]).

4. The Power of Family Narratives

• Dr. Swick notes how offhand family comments can define self-perception for years:

  "Your father actually gave you a narrative...that story became the through line of the next many years..."
  —Dr. Swick [10:00]

• The mother recognizes how inaccurate narratives fuel lasting body dysmorphia ([07:37]–[10:20]).

5. Heritability and Parental Fears

• Dr. Swick reassures the mother that eating disorders have a genetic component, so the impulse to worry isn't unfounded:

  “Many of the conditions...we’re just learning are robustly heritable...Eating disorders...are robustly heritable.”
  —Dr. Swick [12:40]

6. Strategies for Opening Conversations

• With her daughter:
  • Dr. Swick cautions against repeating the mistakes of the previous generation:

    “When your mom...talked to you, she talked about herself...What she didn’t do...was to ask you how you were doing.”
    —Dr. Swick [15:55]

  • She recommends gentle curiosity: raise observations (“I've noticed you've lost a bit of weight, is that true or am I imagining it?”), resist lecturing, and prioritize listening over telling ([18:54]–[21:02]).
  • Frame questions in the context of her daughter's ambitions, not perfectionism, and check in about stressors unrelated to appearance ([22:05]–[24:38]).
  • Accept that the daughter may initially resist or “shut down,” and that privacy and autonomy are critical at her developmental stage ([21:02], [24:42]).
• With her son:
  • Talk during “sideways moments” (e.g., reading together, doing activities), which naturally foster conversation ([36:32]–[37:52]).
  • Inquire about his comments and observations, not just his own self-perception, but about his sister and experience in the family ([33:53]–[35:42]).

7. Parental Vulnerability, Boundaries, and Modeling

• The mother models discussing mistakes and failures openly to help her daughter resist perfectionism—but fears coming off as intrusive ([21:02]–[25:31]).
• The challenge of respecting a teen’s autonomy versus being a protective parent is acknowledged as a difficult balance:

  “I am supposed to be this person, too, like...she's learning to push back on.”
  —Mother [24:47]

8. Dissipating Shame and Keeping Conversation Open

• Normalize discussing feelings and struggles, emphasize there's no shame in help-seeking or vulnerability ([29:42]–[31:52]).
• Dr. Swick encourages recurring, shorter conversations rather than one-off interventions, allowing for emotional regulation and follow-through ([29:42]–[31:52]).

9. Self-Compassion for Parents

• Parents’ own emotions—fear, loneliness, perceived rejection—are natural and important to acknowledge ([25:31]–[27:57]).
• A key insight: Approach the topic from curiosity, not fear, to shift the emotional tone and increase the chance of connection ([39:40]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On negative narratives:

  “Your father actually gave you a narrative. He gave you a story about yourself...and it became the through line of the next many years.”
  —Dr. Swick [10:00]

• Mother on unintended consequences:

  “Whether she was trying to warn me or help me, the exact opposite is what happened. I was like, oh, if she cannot eat, I cannot eat too.”
  —Mother [04:43]

• On strategies:

  “Your whole job is to be reasonably calm...calm enough that you can listen. So if you're calm enough to listen, you can be curious about what's going on with her, to invite her to share with you whatever may be happening.”
  —Dr. Swick [18:54]

• On what parents can control:

  “You can’t counsel her until you start making this discussable. Even though it might be—if it’s not difficult, it would be weird. It’s probably going to be difficult.”
  —Dr. Swick [29:21]

• On approaching with curiosity over fear:

  “Let’s approach it being curious as opposed to approaching it by being afraid.”
  —Mother [39:40]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introducing family and concerns: [01:25]–[03:24]
• Mother’s disordered eating backstory: [03:39]–[07:12]
• Turning points & lack of treatment: [07:12]–[07:19]
• Current worries about daughter and son: [07:37]–[10:00]
• Family comments and legacy: [10:00]–[10:20]
• Heritability of eating disorders: [12:26]–[12:40]
• How to open conversations: [15:55]–[24:38]
• Balancing parental authority and autonomy: [24:42]–[27:35]
• Managing emotions and stages of adolescence: [25:34]–[27:57]
• Dissipating shame, slow conversations: [29:42]–[31:52]
• Approaching son, ‘sideways moments’: [36:32]–[37:52]
• Final insights and reframing fear as curiosity: [39:40]–[40:55]

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Tone of the Conversation

The episode is warm, compassionate, and rich in both empathy and practicality. Dr. Susan Swick provides validation and clear, actionable guidance, while the mother shares her vulnerabilities and reflects deeply on generational cycles, the complexities of adolescence, and her desire to break harmful patterns without alienating her children.

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Practical Takeaways

• Normalize conversation: Start small, be curious, and don’t expect full disclosure right away.
• Timing is key: Approach delicate topics during casual, shared activities.
• Listen, don’t lecture: Stay curious and accept initial resistance; assure teens they are not alone.
• Share appropriately: Don’t overshare parental history unless invited—center the child’s experience first.
• Empower with context: It’s helpful—even protective—to acknowledge heritability and family histories, but knowledge should come with support.
• Self-care for parents: Recognize your own fear and seek support; your well-being impacts the family dynamic.

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This episode offers a real-world, nuanced look at how a parent’s own history can both inform and complicate how they parent teens through difficult topics—ultimately highlighting the importance of openness, patience, and compassion in breaking cycles of silence.

Transcript

[Mother]

Lemonader.

[Interviewer]

So my understanding is that your kids don't know about your history.

[Mother]

They don't. And I've always been afraid to talk about it because of when my mom talked to me about it and that it was a real inflection point for me to amp up my disordered eating. So I've always been really afraid to talk about it.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

I'm Dr. Susan Swick, and this is is talk about able.

[Interviewer]

Every family has their own secrets. Today we're going to talk about how to open up to our kids about them. I'm joined by a mother who lives with her husband and their two teenagers. When she was younger, this mom struggled with an eating disorder. And now, decades later, she's worried her kids might be experiencing the same thing. Together we're going to be talking about how her own adolescent experience is informing what she worries about and what she does with her kids, why she's been so afraid to bring up these topics, and how she can move past this place of worry to be curious with her children and encourage openness. Her journey raising teenagers is something we can all relate to and learn from. So here's our chat. It's so nice to meet you.

[Mother]

It's nice to meet you too. Thanks for having me.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I'd love for us to start with you telling me a little bit about each of your children. You don't have to. You don't have to paint a giant portrait. What I'd love to hear from you is what do you think each of their special gift or special talents are?

[Mother]

Yeah, that's such a good question. You know, is what I would say is like neurotypically exceptionally smart. Right. Because since she was very little, has always been quite gifted, learned to read very early and is very book smart. Right. It's like very driven and very sort of one track about school and the rest. But she's also just a really wonderful artist and has taught herself to play guitar and just has a lot of interests, loves photography, so really is sort of like a diverse set of interests and is really just a fun and bright young woman. My son is totally different, completely different kid, Very, very bright as well, but loves computers and technology. Built his first computer himself when he was 12. Researched the whole thing. Like I gave him a budget and he created a spreadsheet and went to town and built this thing for his graduation from middle school. He wanted to upgrade it. So again, like got a budget and, you know, picked out all of the parts and assembled it and he's probably in there Fiddling around with it right now.

[Interviewer]

Amazing.

[Mother]

Love sports. Really, really social. Kid has a great group of friends. They both have a really nice group of friends, but they're also very close with each other, which makes me so happy. They're really good friends and love each other very much.

[Interviewer]

That's fantastic. All right, so let's just jump in. Why don't you tell me a little bit about the question or the heartburn that you're having now. So.

[Mother]

I was anorexic and bulimic as a teenager and young adult. I was not an overweight child. But as I think many people with my body type, as I got pre pubescent, I was a little bit chubbier. And I very distinctly. My parents used to have this Christmas party every winter. And I remember so distinctly just standing around with my dad and his friends and my dad saying I was fat in front of all of his friends. And I was just devastated, like, just totally destroyed. And that was when I started to, like, really work out, right? Like, I didn't really think so much about restricting my food, but I was exercising a lot, right? These were the Jane Fonda years, right? You put a cassette tape in that thing, and, like, that was, like, the thing. So that's. That was sort of how it started, was by this, like, sort of horrific sort of feeling, this experience.

[Interviewer]

How old were you? Do you remember about how old you started?

[Mother]

Yeah, I was 10. And I guess when I was 14 or 15, I had this talk with my mom. I sort of distinctly remember it, like, just standing in the kitchen and her telling me that she was anorexic and what that was like for her as a young person. And that my grandmother was also anorexic and that they used to compete about who could eat less. And, you know, I think whether she was trying to warn me or help me, the exact opposite is what happened. I was like, oh, if she cannot eat, I cannot eat too. And that was, like, it. It dawned on me, like, the. Oh, this is an option. Like, it's so much easier to not have to make any choices, right? Like, I'm just not gonna eat. So I basically, like, subsisted on cereal and dinner, right? Like, there was no way to get out of dinner. So, you know, we. We sat down and had dinner as a family, always together. So, you know, I would usually go and purge after dinner. And that was, you know, that was sort of when that really started in a bad way. And what's kind of funny is, like, nobody ever said anything, you know, so Like I just went sort of for years like that. I had one, my softball coach in high school said something to me once. He said, sarah, you've lost a lot of weight. I hope you're doing it in a healthy way. And that was like it. And I guess about a year and a half after college, I moved out on my own and met my. My would be future husband around this time. And you know, things still continued. I was still both anorexic and bulimic during this time and would sort of go through waves. And when I moved in with my husband, when we got engaged and we moved in together, I think I was about 25, 25 or 26. I couldn't hide it anymore. So I just stopped. I just stopped doing it. And I was also happy. I loved my husband and I felt supported and loved for me for the first time in my life. And I just. I don't know, I got better, I guess so.

[Interviewer]

So did, did you ever have treatment or you really just. Wow, you mastered it on your own one way or another?

[Mother]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Mother]

I didn't. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

That's extraordinary. That's an extraordinary story. I'm so impressed. One I want to tell you I moved. Thank you for sharing it in rich detail. And tell me what's got you worrying a little bit about your. About your two kids.

[Mother]

Yeah. So my daughter has lost a lot of weight in the last eight months or so. She's always been curvy. Like that's just sort of, you know, her and much like myself, you know, body type wise. But it's a marked difference that I've noticed and that gave me some initial concern that there's been a big change there. She's always been very body positive and it just comes as a little bit of a. I don't want to say it's a shock. It's not that. It's. I am feeling some concern, so. And my son, I don't know, it's. It's a funny thing there. He will say that he thinks he's fat. He's very tall and slender. When he has said it before, I have asked him, is someone saying you're fat? Like, is it coming from an external source? Because it just doesn't seem like it doesn't fit with reality. So that was concerning to me too. I think when I was a kid and my dad said what he did, I don't think I actually was fat. You know, like, I look back like my year, not too many years ago, my mom was like cleaning out and Gave. She had these little books filled with our report cards and medical records and, like, all of our stuff. And she gave me everything. And I was, like, looking through it, and I was like, for how tall I was, this is actually pretty normal weight. Like, what was. Like, what was he talking about? But that was. It was enough to, like, create a degree of body dysmorphia, for sure. And, you know, that has stuck with me my whole life and will always be with me. Like, I. I know I am strong and fit and sure, like, I'm always going to believe I could lose 10 pounds, but, you know, that is. I think women of a certain generation feel that way, but I'm not. Right. Like, I am healthy and fit. So I am concerned because I think that is a mental perception that can be hard to shake if you think it is true internally.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Your father actually gave you a narrative. He gave you a story about yourself that when you see a photograph, you're like, oh, my gosh, that story wasn't even accurate. And it became the through line of the next many years, you know, the next 15 years.

[Mother]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So my understanding is that your kids don't know about your history.

[Mother]

They don't. And I've always been afraid to talk about it because of when my mom talked to me about it and that it was a real inflection point for me to amp up.

[Interviewer]

Mm. Do you guys eat dinner together most nights?

[Mother]

We do, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Okay. And is mealtime like three minutes long while everybody rushes off to go do work? What's it feel like at dinner time?

[Mother]

I would say we have a pretty. Pretty typical. What I think of as, like, a leisurely dinner. We tend to sit down around the same time most nights of the week. That's gotten a little bit, you know, less so as the kids have more activities and, like, more things are happening. They're out with their friends later and things like that. But generally speaking, I would say, you know, we sit down and, you know, sit and eat for 20 or 30 minutes most nights and, you know, chat about our days and what's going on tomorrow and things like that.

[Interviewer]

Wonderful.

[Mother]

It's nice.

[Interviewer]

So, and tell me a little more about what you've noticed. Let's start with your daughter. In addition to the weight loss, have you noticed anything else? Behaviors around meal time, around exercise, around food, or after meal time?

[Mother]

Yeah. So I've noticed recently that in the last several months, she's just a little pickier and also less likely to eat breakfast. That was a, a, a, a tool. Air quoting tool that I used a lot in college, that I would sleep through the morning, which meant I really only needed to eat one meal each day and that would be fine. And I am seeing some of that here. That makes me a little concerned.

[Interviewer]

The other thing I want to, I want to ask about is I wonder if you've also read or learned about the sort of heritability of eating disorders and if that's part of your worry.

[Mother]

Yeah, yeah, it is.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So just to highlight that like many of the sort of psychiatric challenges that we are just learning about as a discipline, psychiatry is a young discipline. Many of the conditions it attention deficit disorder, anxiety disorders, mood and thought disorders. And it turns out eating disorders, which for a long time the field thought were entirely behavioral, entirely environmental, actually, they are robustly heritable. So and when I say that, I say that one just to be honest about what is known and to be able to acknowledge the ways in which that can make us feel as parents, it can make us feel petrified that an experience we want to protect our kids from, they may be more vulnerable to. And then what we get to do is try to equip our kids with knowledge and skills to be aware of what is already known so that they can make good choices to take care of themselves. After this short break, we'll talk about how this mother could open up this conversation with her children. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. We turn to all sorts of places when we need advice. Maybe you've chatted with a friend or shared with your hairstylist. As fun as it can be to connect with your important social network, when you're looking for help within like anxiety, sadness or irritability, you're more likely to get what you really need from a licensed therapist. And fortunately, you can get started online and easily with BetterHelp. Therapy is really effective for all kinds of challenges you might be facing. And BetterHelp has been helping people find their fit for over 10 years. They've served over 5 million people globally with a current rating of 4.9 out of 5 from 1.7 million client session reviews. BetterHelp also has a therapist match commitment based on a questionnaire of your needs and preferences. BetterHelp matches you with a provider that's going to be a good fit. And if you aren't happy with your match, you can switch to a different therapist at any time, all from BetterHelp's tailored recommendations. As a psychiatrist myself, I know the extraordinary effect that working with a trained, licensed therapist can have on someone's life. I see it every day. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of Expertise. Find the one with BetterHelp, our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com talkaboutable that's betterhelp.com talkaboutable this message is sponsored by Greenlight. As kids get older, some parts of parenting get easier.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

One of my favorite parts has been.

[Interviewer]

Getting to have much more complex conversations with my kids. But I'm a shrink. Maybe your favorite part is not having to cook as much. Some things might feel like they never get easier though, like teaching your kids about money. There are money lessons kids can't fully learn until they get hands on experience. And that's where Green Light comes in. Greenlight is a debit card and money app made for families. Parents can send money to their kids and keep an eye on their spending and saving, all while kids and teenagers build confidence and lifelong financial literacy skills. Through games that teach money skills in a fun, accessible way, kids learn how to save, invest and spend wisely. And with app features like a chore calendar, kids can also work on goal setting and completion and get to experience the rewards when money isn't. Talk about able Some kids will grow up feeling like money equals security, success or all of their value where what they really need to do is to learn how to manage it wisely so they can become their best selves. And Greenlight is the easy, convenient way for parents to raise financially smart kids and families to navigate life together. Maybe that's why millions of parents trust and kids love learning about money on Greenlight, the one family finance and safety app. Don't wait to teach your kids real world money skills. Start your risk free Greenlight trial today at greenlight.com talkaboutable that's greenlight.com talkaboutable to get started, greenlight.com/talkaboutable I have a lot of thoughts that I want to share with you. And I first want to say that when your mom, I'm sure out of a place of love and wish to protect, but when she talked to you, she talked about herself, right? She didn't talk about you. Maybe she didn't listen too much. She talked and told. And what she didn't do, what no one except your softball coach maybe and then maybe your husband did was to ask you how you were doing or to talk to you about what she noticed in you. So let's let's Think about a way you might open a conversation with your daughter that can feel possible. Does your daughter have a time where she's most likely to chat with you? Do you guys. Does she like to cook with you or do her homework while you're doing work or when are those times?

[Mother]

Usually in the evening. We do sort of co work.

[Interviewer]

Co work. I love that. Oh, my gosh. So with knowledge of when it doesn't feel like you'd be sitting down and sort of eye to eye saying, we have to talk about something very serious, but where it's a little more relaxed, shoulders down, where you might be able to say, you know, I've noticed and you have to be ready. You'd have to steel yourself to dive in. I've noticed that you lost a little weight. Is that true or am I imagining things? To be curious and to let that open the conversation, you may be imagining that you have to give her something. You have to give her knowledge and skills, but your whole job is to be reasonably calm. Not like, you know, the Buddha, but calm enough that you can listen. So if you're calm enough to listen, you can be curious about what's going on with her, to invite her to share with you whatever may be happening. And the same way that you still remember that softball coach that shared that they had noticed something in you and cared about you enough to say, I hope you're doing it in a healthy way now. I sort of wish that softball coach had been even extra skilled at sitting with you and saying, asking more, not just telling and leaving it at that. Because you have to care about someone a lot to have an uncomfortable conversation. Can you imagine how that could start that kind of conversation? And is she the kid that'll shut it down or will she maybe breathe into it and tell you a little bit?

[Mother]

I think she will try to shut it down. I think if she has inherited one bad trait for me or semi negative trait for me, it is that perfectionist quality. And I think she really struggles when people see her as anything but that perfect young person. So that has been routinely a challenge over the years. And something, you know, I really do try and model my mistakes and talk about my mistakes and the ways that, you know, I have a business, right? Like, I fail and mess up all the time. And I think it is healthy and helpful to show that and show how I pick myself up and dust myself off and try again and how much I learn from those mistakes. But I still don't feel like she's comfortable showing any level. Yeah, Of. Of imperfection.

[Interviewer]

Mm. So I. I wonder if it might be an easier frame to start a conversation that is even a little more broadly about how ambitious she is. I don't know if you guys use the word perfectionism in my experience. Do you?

[Mother]

No, not really, no. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So in my experience, it can be a tricky word, because some, especially teenage perfectionists, they're like, thank you. Yes, I am. They feel like you're being dismissive of their chances of achieving. And you know her very well. You know what she's capable of. She's capable of extraordinary things. And perfect actually is not possible for anyone. It doesn't exist. Right. There's no platonic ideal of anything. It's theoretical. But setting a frame that has more to do with ambition and hard work, effort, and being able to say to her, so, how are you doing? Because I know what the beginning of senior year is like, and you are such a hardworking, super capable and ambitious, ambitious young woman. I know you. You're the. You're. You're the Library of Congress on her. You know her better than she knows herself. She knows what's going on inside a little better than you do, but you know her whole story, and just start with that and hear how it's going, and then you could share. You know, one. I think this could be such a stressful year, and I'm wondering how I best can help you manage it and make choices that are going to actually meet what you need. And in talking about it, you then can share. You know, I want to also share with you. I'm a little worried that you've lost some weight, and I don't. Maybe it's worry or maybe it's on purpose. Can you tell me about it? Be curious. See if she can just say, well, I've been trying, or whatever she might tell.

[Mother]

Yeah, okay. Yeah, that makes sense.

[Interviewer]

Are you. What are you afraid of with that?

[Mother]

Um, you know, we're at this moment where things have changed a lot in our relationship in the last year. Um, you know, she's becoming an adult, and she has a life outside of me, and I am very happy about that. I think that is a good, healthy progression. Right. Like, that is the way it should be. But I am. And I realize, like, I. I am supposed to be this person, too. Like, I'm who she's learning to push back on. Right. Like, I'm the person that she's learning how to put her foot down, how to exert some boundaries in her own authority. Like, I get. Like, that's hard. I struggle with that. But I know that that's a healthy part of her development. Right. Like, and I'm okay with it. It just is hard sometimes.

[Interviewer]

It's uncomfortable. It's lonely too.

[Mother]

Yeah. Well. And you know, I read, I read that wonderful book by Lisa Damore years ago which is just. Was so, so helpful around the stages of development. And I think I would have really fallen apart if I hadn't. Like, she talks about needing your mom friends. Right. And needing a supportive partner and like, don't be wounded with your kid, but you can go be wounded to your friends. Right. Like just, you know. And that I find very helpful and I am trying to put that into practice at this stage of our relationship. But I also worry that if I, I don't want to come in heavy handed at all. And I think the way you've presented it is very helpful. I think I can do that and try and make it, as you say. Right. To come to the conversation with curiosity as opposed to coming into it demanding answers, to being curious. But I do worry that she thinks I am imposing on her personal autonomy. And I think that's, you know, this is that time. Right. Where I do still, I'm still the parent, she still lives at home, she's still in high school. I do still have authority over the situation. But I am trying to give her more freedom and more decision making power and more. Right. Like more choice. Yep. So I don't want to come into the conversation and have her shut the door on me because I think it's too important. I think that the consequences are too high. Right. It's too. I think, I think I was very lucky. Right. In my own experience, I know my mom today and my grandmother, you know, throughout her life, I know they really did significant harm, long term harm to their bodies. I think I was very lucky. And I am afraid, I am afraid of that long term potential.

[Interviewer]

It's really hard to have to be patient in having honest conversations with our kids when we're afraid. And the critical thing, I love that you brought up the book. I can't remember the name of her book.

[Mother]

I think it's called Untangle.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, it's a great book. And the idea that it is deeply human. It suggests you're alive and awake and love your child to feel rejected, to feel grief when your child pushes you away and pushes back and starts figuring out who they are by saying, well, I'm not you, kind of giving you the hand. And in a way you have to only be capable of showing up, listening and being ready to absorb whatever she is sharing. Whether it's a little hostile and prickly, whether it's your worst case scenario that she's really sort of deep in the throes of a distorted body image and it's taking up a lot of space, or whether she actually knows a little bit about your history and knows about her grandma and her great grandma. It's not impossible. In my experience, smart kids sometimes have overheard conversations they weren't privy to, sometimes have just put things together or have had conversations with other family members. I'm not sure, but I wouldn't be. I'd be surprised but not shocked.

[Mother]

Yeah, yeah, that's a good point.

[Interviewer]

But you can't counsel her until you start making this discussable. Even though it might be. I mean, if it's not difficult, it would be weird. It's probably going to be difficult.

[Mother]

Yeah, yeah. No, and it's nice to hear you acknowledge that. Right? Yeah. It's hard.

[Interviewer]

Really hard. And you're just trying to make she's. If she's, let's say she's restricting and binging and purging, then my guess is this ambitious, wonderful girl is feeling a lot of shame on top of everything else. So your only task is to make it talk about able, but also to dissipate shame. There's no shame here. Right. And you may have a superpower in doing that, in being able to say, I'm so proud of you for being honest with me. I know how private this might feel, how tender it could feel. You know, the women in our family actually have dealt with this. And you can have short conversations with her. Right. If it's taxing and really feels. Because if you feel a little distressed by what she starts sharing with you and maybe start crying, you may feel like, oh, gosh, I'm really blowing it. I'm going to make her super afraid. Or she's going to never share again. I would slow it down and just say, first of all, here's the great thing about teenagers, even the smartest ones, they tend to be a little preoccupied with what's going on internally. So you don't have to talk about yourself unless she asks. But if you feel like the conversation gets shut down or again, you know her very well. If she starts performing, if she starts reassuring, telling you, no, mom, I'm fine, I'm okay, I don't know what you're talking about. I would just keep her feet to the fire a little. Or you get to say, well, okay, I Trust you. And you say, but I'm just gonna say, I know. I also know that you may not want to worry anyone. And it's, you know, I still see what is in front of my eyes, which is, I think you lost quite a bit of weight in a little bit of time. And I just want to sit here next to you and understand it. So you're not managing something big and challenging alone.

[Mother]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

We're going to take a short break, and when we get back, we'll talk about how another person in this mother's life might be able to help. We haven't talked about your son, who also was talking about these things. And it sounds like he's been growing up not. Not in. He's like. He's vertical. He's 14. In my experience, boys are certainly vulnerable to eating disorders in some ways. At the same level, girls are especially athletic boys, but usually the really vulnerable boys are ones that are doing sports with strict weight requirements, very socialized weight requirements, whether wrestling or boxing or even football for kickers. But I wonder if he's. So. I don't want to give short shrift to your concern about him. I wonder if some of what he's saying is. Are the things your daughter is not saying are responding to maybe a little ebb in the sort of balance of. You have such a loving family that gathers at the table that you or your husband cook every night. And the two of them are very close, you said.

[Mother]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And he may, you know, he's aware that next year she won't be at home if she goes away to college. And I'm sure he's attuned if he doesn't. If she hasn't talked to him about it. He's seeing what you're seeing.

[Mother]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And he's in high school or he's just about to start high school. He knows what it's like. So I wonder if he's not, in a way, giving voice to some of what he's seeing.

[Mother]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

But you shouldn't have to assume, just as you would check in with her, check in with him. Tell him, what are you noticing? What are you worried about? Maybe he is worried about his own body image. Maybe he'll talk about being worried about you or worried about his dad or worried about her, worried about his sister. See if you can help him start to play you his movie. He sounds like a deeply. I mean, he sounds like a delightfully technical engineer, but who also has lots of friends and loves sports and is, I mean, a brother and sister. That are three or four years apart, Three years apart and are close is a gift. You're not going to break that by being curious with him. But he does deserve for you to check in with him. If he's worried about her, let's say, let's imagine if he's worried about her, he may be trying to find a way to help her when he doesn't know how to help.

[Mother]

Right.

[Interviewer]

And he can share that with you. And if you get to say, I'm so glad you shared it with me and dad and I noticed it too, and we're gonna show up and talk with her and help her get whatever she needs. But again, let him finish the sentence before you fill in the blanks. You may find out that he's really got a lot of preoccupation with weight. It's possible, I would say if I was an actuary in this situation, if I was the insurance adjuster, I'd be like statist. More likely he's worried about his sister, but it's definitely possible. And you want to find out, you want to find out what that movie is. Maybe keep poking at this a little. If you're having a conversation with him so that he knows it's okay to talk to you about what he's worried about, whether it's with himself or someone else, including his sister. Not a betrayal.

[Mother]

He is great in the sense that if he is scared or worried or concerned about something, he does usually open up and want to talk about it. I know that they're at a moment where privacy, and especially privacy individually, but privacy together is paramount. And that he. I think you're right. I think he wouldn't, he would feel like that's a betrayal if he were opening up about something that she were privately saying to him. So that's interesting. I hadn't thought about that before and that's very helpful and insightful and I can think of some ways that I can approach that gently and see if he'll open up about it.

[Interviewer]

Is he. Does he have times when he talks a lot of. My now 16 year old son only talks if he and I are co cooking something where you have a shared challenge and we're not looking at each other or in the car any other time. I get a no, mom, don't worry. What?

[Mother]

Yeah, no, I know these, I think these days have actually probably ended, but right up until the end of the school year we were still reading together every night.

[Interviewer]

Oh, so nice.

[Mother]

That was sort of that time when we're sitting side by side. And. And, you know, I'm reading something to him. But it was also the moments, like the quiet moments when he would tell me about his day or he would ask me a question, or he would tell me about something that happened that upset him or whatever it is. And that was actually another piece of advice that someone, a woman who does sort of middle school, helps with middle school admissions here in New York had said was that you should read to your kids for as long as they'll let you, because that's the moments when they'll talk to you. And that has proven to be true here. So we'll see if he'll let me continue when the school year starts again. But for the summer, it's been. We've been on hiatus.

[Interviewer]

Oh, that's so beautiful. You might even just say, like, what are we reading tonight? And if he has doubts, say, oh, you can poke a little tiny bit of guilt. Is okay. It's a powerful tool. You can say, oh, there's so much changing. Can we read tonight? And you can say, you pick. It can be anything. It can be the sports pages. It could be a product description page from. I don't even know the name of the catalog. Yeah. Technical manual. Exactly, exactly. Or something shorter, like a magazine article or a poem. But let him know that it gets to be anything. And even if he resists, you could say, well, could you read to me? I would really like you to read something to me. And what would you like to read to me? And let him do some talking and then see that wonderful, connected, side by side moment. Maybe a time to share, like, just what you've noticed, which is the language he's using. And what is he. Is he worried about something? You're not fat, but you're smart. So I think maybe something's on your mind. See if he can then read that one. Read that one.

[Mother]

That's a nice way of putting it. Yeah. Okay.

[Interviewer]

Do you feel like you have some language or some ideas at least about the setup? Like, that will help you stay present. And remember, while you may internally feel stressed and strained, and that's your job to track that, your kids are probably going to be most attuned to what they're feeling. And if they're talking, you've got it. You're cooking with gas. What more do you feel like you need? More language or.

[Mother]

No, I do think this is very helpful. I wouldn't normally, and I would take lots of notes, but this is recorded so I can listen to it again, which is fantastic. And I can go back and take notes, but you've given me a lot of language and that's been really helpful. And also I think just the mental shift of staying approaching it with curiosity as opposed to what has been sitting on my chest, which is fear, and thinking about it in the fact that it is there is not necessarily a problem. Right. Like, let's approach it being curious as opposed to approaching it by being afraid. And that is a really helpful mental shift for me in thinking about this and how I approach it. Because I think our kids know when we're scared. Right. Like they do. And I think if I come into a conversation scared, which is very much what I have been, I think that's it. Right. Like, they don't want to add any fuel to that fire. Fear.

[Interviewer]

Right, Right. And they want to help you. They're going to want to help you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mother]

So that's great. And, and really, really useful advice. I'll keep you posted.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Well, I appreciate, I appreciate you so much. I'm so impressed.

[Mother]

Thank you. Thank you. This has been a really, really helpful conversation. I really appreciate it.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

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[Interviewer]

Yet, now is the perfect time.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

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[Interviewer]

Don'T miss out.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Talk about Able is produced by Lemonada Media in partnership with the Ohana center for Child and Family Mental Health at Montaj Health and made possible through funding from the Montaj Health Foundation. Together, we are committed to helping families talk about the issues that children, teens and young adults are facing today. We believe that when these conversations happen at home, even the most challenging subjects, children build the skills they need to flourish. Because when families are connected, the hard moments become more bearable, the good moments become even better, and it all becomes Talk about Able. This show is produced by Aria Bracci, mixing and sound design by Brian Castillo. Kristin Lepore is senior director of new content, and Jackie Danziger is vice president of narrative and production. Maggie Crowshaw is our managing director of partnerships. Executive producers include myself, Jessica Cordova Kramer and Stephanie Whittles.

[Interviewer]

Wax.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

And a very special thanks to Kelsey Talley and Maya Smith. You can help others find our show by leaving us a rating and writing a review.

[Interviewer]

Thanks so much for listening. Talk to you next week.