← Talkaboutable with Dr. Susan Swick
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- [00:02]
A
Lemonade. My husband died in 2021 and I am a widow. And now I'm fallen deeply, madly in love with the dentist, as we call him. I really love this man and he and I have decided to move in together. And I don't want to like, just like swoop in and be like, we're moving and you have to figure it out, like, deal with it. And I want to honor whatever feelings they might have about it. And I'm going to still decide. I'm the mom.
- [00:49]
B
I'm Dr. Susan Swick and this is talk about Able. How do you tell your kids that not only have you fallen in love with somebody new, but that new man is moving into their home? That's the question we're going to tackle today. Amy is a widow and single mom living in California where she's raising her two sons. And in this episode, she's going to open up about her decision to move in with her new partner and how tough it it can be to navigate when your kids are in adolescence and certain topics become too awkward to tackle. We'll talk about how to slow down and pay attention to what her boys actually need so they have a chance to build a lasting and authentic relationship with her new partner. I love how this episode unfolds because it shows us how to keep connecting with our children as they get older. And it's a great reminder to treat each of our kids as individuals rather than seeing them as a unit. So let's get into it. I'll jump in and ask you the questions that I love to start by asking, which is who lives at home with you? Who's in your home right now?
- [02:11]
A
In my home right now is my amazing 21 year old son, Ethan. He's in college, but he's home for the summer trying to kind of figure out where he's going to go back to school this fall. And then my 15 year old son Chase, who's a sophomore in high school, and two cats and one dog.
- [02:30]
B
Oh, the cats and the dog. Thank you for including. Because pets are important. I always ask specifically in our house especially.
- [02:38]
A
So. Yeah.
- [02:39]
B
And I'm hoping you can tell me about with each. With both Ethan and Chase, what are their special gifts? Each of them special talent, their superpower, if you will. But it can be something weird or quirky. It's what you treasure in them.
- [02:58]
A
Totally. So I often say that chase, the 15 year old is one of my favorite humans I've ever met in my life. He's this like, deeply rooted old soul who Is curious and sensitive, very quirky. Does not care if he fits into all the places. So smart and intuitive. And I was just. We were just celebrating a young person here at my work's birthday. And I was talking about. He's like a little old man, but so is Chase. He. He has a bathrobe and slipp. He loves chai lattes. He walks around the neighborhood because I have a lot of older ladies in my neighborhood who he thinks are his friends, not my friends. Just like this. And he loves animals, and animals love him. And he is. Yeah. And he. He was 11 when my husband died.
- [03:49]
B
Eleven is such a tough age to lose a parent.
- [03:52]
A
I know. Yeah. So, you know, just a different start where he was at in his life. And then Ethan is like, also Chase is more introverted, too. Ethan is a lot like me. He's very extroverted. He loves people. He walks into a room and walks out with everybody being his friend. And I would say that's one of his superpowers. He's a driven athlete and puts a lot of hard work and time into it. He's also. Both of the boys are so loving. So they're unabashed, expressive around love. Like hugging people, saying, I love you.
- [04:33]
B
Oh, that's so wonderful. They have a lot of gems in their treasure box, it sounds like. And you're good at cataloging them. All right, well, let's jump right in. I'd love to hear the situation that you'd like to talk about today.
- [04:52]
A
Yeah. My husband died in 2020. And I was so sorry. I'm so sorry. Yeah. Thank you. Yes. Like, it just. That was. Yeah. It's a life changing thing to lose your partner, and people don't really realize it till you walk through it. So. Last year was the third anniversary, and I had for months been feeling this pull, and it was a pull to live and to be alive and not just be. And I felt a pull to date. I wanted to meet somebody, and so I sat down with the boys. I also am trying to be, like, really open about this journey that, like, life continues. So I sat with them and said, I'm gonna start dating. I don't even know what that means. I just. I want to go to the movies and I want to go out to dinner and I want to go listen to music. And I don't know what's going to happen, but that's what it is. And at the beginning I was like, I'm probably never going to get married again. I don't. I mean, if I Fall in love. How lucky would that be? I've had a great. Never gonna, like, you know, I don't think I'll move in with anybody. Whatever.
- [06:03]
B
Yeah.
- [06:03]
A
So I started dating, and now I'm fallen deeply, madly in love with the dentist, as we call him. I'm gonna fast forward to what I want to talk to you about is that I really love this man. And he and I have decided to move in together. And it's scary and exciting and fast. It feels fast. But there's something about being 50 and like. Like, not having time for bullshit. And, like, I'm not doing that. I'm not interested in that. But this person. Well, so the other thing about him is his name is Brian also, which was my late husband. So there's like that. Right. He spends the night, a couple nights a week, he's eating dinner with the. And like, Chase has had a slow burn. Right. Like, over time. But Ethan was gone to college and showed up. And now there's this man that's like, really in his mom's life. And I. I'm like a person that talks it out and processes it, but I've been a little afraid or nervous or like, how do I even go there about this? And so where I'm at with it is. I mean, it's not really like, they don't get a vote. Like, this is also like me, what I'm choosing. And I want to, like, meet them where they're at and not leave them there around this. And what it feels like to me is this conversation around respecting him and liking him and maybe giving them permission to love him someday, but that there's no nothing he's doing or any intention to replace their dad or that relationship. So I have a little bit of that that I'd like to talk through. And then the other thing is, I am built for partnership. And I want to be loved and I want to be in a relationship, and I don't want to go it alone. And I've, like, found this incredible person.
- [08:09]
B
Yeah. Losing a partner reorders the planets.
- [08:13]
A
Totally.
- [08:14]
B
And it sounds like you have found a way to rebuild and build a new order. Like, that's what you do. You don't get back to where you were before adapting to this new. This new solar system. You're essentially an explorer in space right now, finding a new galaxy. And at the same time, you are mission control for your boys. And they are different explorers. You're not leaving them behind. They're building their own new galaxies. But you want to be in their galaxy. You want them to be in your galaxy. And you have to help them authentically explore space, build something that's meaningful to them. And you are uniquely knowledgeable about them, about the galaxy they came from, and about the particular interests, skills, orientation that they bring to this new chapter. So while you're busy exploring and building your own odyssey, you are critical to those boys. I'd love to hear first how the boys are doing. I'm sure everyone grieves differently.
- [09:38]
A
It is like, it is the one thing that we all like, share in common. Right. But it's. Yeah. I think Ethan has. Will probably always wrestle with his grief in a different way because he found my husband and you know, you know, did CPR until people came. Right. And like, you know, there's this other layer for him that is, you know, like, I just, I don't want it to haunt him the rest of his life. So, you know, the first year I told them both, like, you're going to do the things I tell you to do around this because I'm your mom and I want to resource you because for the rest of your life. Your dad died when you were young and that's like a big deal.
- [10:24]
B
What a beautiful, attuned job.
- [10:26]
A
Thank you. So did a lot of grief. My. Because my husband was a therapist, his practice gifted us therapy, which is like literally the best gift anybody has given me, I think, in my whole life. And you know, they didn't really want to do it, but they did it. Yeah. So I think, like I would say for the two of them, well, the dentist says to me, these kids are freaking amazing. So many other things could be festering around their grief and showing up in behaviors. But like, this is amazing. And yeah, they are. They're really. And they're very communicative. Like he'll be like, you're not many people's 21 year old son calls crying and is like, mom, I want to talk you to, to you about this. Yeah. So I would say, you know, it is a process, but I do think that the grief, it keeps coming for you.
- [11:15]
B
Well, I mean, grief is like it. People make the mistake of thinking it's linear. Right. That grief is something you begin and then you get to the middle and then you're done with it. That it's a companion throughout your life and at unexpected moments, it can, it can reach a crescendo and crash over you like a wave. Those moments tend to get a little less frequent and maybe a little gentler as time moves between you and the event and the sort of good waves, the waves of thinking about what you loved about Brian, what he loved about you. Those good feeling waves start to take more of the space. And the missing him waves or the remembering that terrible day waves get smaller and rare, but it doesn't go away. You learn how to bear it, you learn how to live with it. And the gifts of having been well loved and having had a wonderful person in your life start to take up most of the space.
- [12:27]
A
Definitely.
- [12:30]
B
More with Amy after this break.
- [12:33]
A
Foreign.
- [12:40]
B
This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. We turn to all sorts of places when we need advice. Maybe you've chatted with a friend or shared with your hairstylist. As fun as it can be to connect with your important social network, when you're looking for help with things like anxiety, sadness or irritability, you're more likely to get what you really need from a licensed therapist. And fortunately, you can get started online and easily with BetterHelp. Therapy is really effective for all kinds of challenges you might be facing. And BetterHelp has been helping people find their fit for over 10 years. They've served over 5 million people globally with a current rating of 4.9 out of 5 from 1.7 million client session reviews. And BetterHelp also has a therapist match commitment based on a questionnaire of your needs and preferences. BetterHelp matches you with a provider that's going to be a good fit. And if you aren't happy with your match, you can switch to a different therapist at any time, all from BetterHelp's tailored recommendations. As a psychiatrist myself, I know the extraordinary effect that working with a trained, licensed therapist can have on someone's life. I see it in every day. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of Expertise. Find the one with better help. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com talkaboutable that's betterhelp.com talkaboutable. This message is sponsored by Greenlight. As kids get older, some parts of parenting get easier. One of my favorite parts has been getting to have much more complex conversations with my kids. But I'm a shrink. Maybe your favorite part is not having to cook as much. Some things might feel like they never get easier though, like teaching your kids about money. There are money lessons kids can't fully learn until they get hands on experience, and that's where green light comes in. Greenlight is a debit card and Money app made for families. Parents can send money to their kids and keep an eye on their spending and saving. All while kids and teenagers build confidence and lifelong financial literacy skills. Through games that teach money skills in a fun, accessible way, kids learn how to save, invest and spend wisely. And with app features like a chore calendar, kids can also work on goal setting and completion and get to experience the rewards when money isn't. Talk about able. Some kids will grow up feeling like money equals security, success or all of their value where what they really need to do is to learn how to manage it wisely so they can become their best selves. And Greenlight is the easy, convenient way for parents to raise financially smart kids and families to navigate life together. Maybe that's why millions of parents trust and kids love learning about money on Greenlight, the number one family finance and safety app. Don't wait to teach your kids real world money skills. Start your risk free Greenlight trial today at greenlight.com talkaboutable that's greenlight.com talkaboutable to get started, greenlight.com/talkaboutable so it sounds like. So I'm, I'm delighted to hear that Brian thinks your kids are amazing. How did they get along with him? How does, how's that gone?
- [16:30]
A
I mean, it's a little awkward and maybe it's just awkward for your mom to eat and like, like hold hands with somebody else in the house. Like, it's probably just awkward.
- [16:43]
B
Can they say that? I mean, will they tell you? Will they be like, mom, that's just weird or gross? Will they say that kind of stuff?
- [16:49]
A
Yeah, but I mean, what Ethan says is like, I don't want to know the details, but I'm so happy you're happy. And then Chase is like, well, it's awkward. And like, you know, he's nice, he's smart. So like last night, you know, both the boys have been gone for, for a while, for like over a month. And so, you know, when Ethan got home, when, when Brian the dentist came over and I was like at the pool or whatever and Ethan had just, they'd seen each other for the first time in two months. Like he, you know, was like really touched, moved that like Ethan approached him, hugged him, you know, shook his hand and was like, how are you? What's been going on? They like had this whole exchange. So, and that had been after not seeing each other for a while. So like, there are these moments where I, I, whether they're trying or it's just the slow burn of getting comfortable with another man. Right. That seems to be happening. But, like, it's not. Like, I want to go. I want him to teach me how to drive. Or like, it's like, it's still. For me, I think it's still forming, but I want to move in with him. And I, like.
- [17:58]
B
Do they know? Do they know that That's.
- [18:00]
A
No, I have that. That's the thing I haven't said out loud yet. So.
- [18:06]
B
That'S so unusual for you. It sounds like you guys really talk about so much, and you have great clarity about this being a person you want to move in with and then how to manage that in a way that makes it work well with your family.
- [18:27]
A
I know you. I. I also, like, I want to do as little harm as possible in the process. Not just for the boys, but for the dentists, too.
- [18:35]
B
Like, I care. What are you worried about? What are you worried about?
- [18:41]
A
I. I'm worried about the middle part. Like, I have a vision for the end. It's like the transition to the change. I'm worried. I'm worried about they're going to act out the feelings that they might have about it, or I'm working, so let's say.
- [18:57]
B
But let's pause there. What happens if they act out the feelings? Like. Like play me that movie.
- [19:05]
A
Yeah. I mean, Chase retreats. His room, spends less time out. He. In my experience, he gets less communicative, less talkative, and he can be snarky.
- [19:25]
B
Okay. Just.
- [19:27]
A
Yeah, okay. And then Ethan, he. He's moot. Gets really moody also. Isolates is not nice. And then comes back with, like, apologies and hugs. And. I'm so sorry. I didn't. I don't like that I was like that. I love you. I am sorry. Like, a lot of, like. And. And sometimes it's like, it's a. You know, I. I love that in the reciprocity of our love and relationship. And. And I think he has a lot of thoughts and opinions that he doesn't always verbalize out loud. And when he does, it's not, like, productive in the moment. It's productive later. I guess I'm scared that they will leave and never come back to me. And one of the things about moving in together that I was really emotional about, and the boys and I did talk about this part because I'm renting the home we're in for eight years now, and my owner decided to sell, and I, like, literally decompensated for a week in May. I was crying. I was like. I Can't leave this place. She wants to sell it to me, literally. Brian and I go out to dinner, and he talks about moving in together and is like, if you really want that place, we can buy it together. And. And. But he doesn't love it, right? But he's like, but I would rather buy something different than a townhouse, whatever. And I. In that moment, like, I. Then I go back to my. My outdoor deck where I spent a lot of the year of my deed. Be associated deepest grief and think and get real quiet, right? And then I start to listen to my knowing. And in that listening, I was like, oh, I'm holding on to something emotionally here. Brian died in this house. It's the last place we lived as a family. And if I let it go, I might be creating space for Brian, the new the dentist that I didn't know I was withholding. And I. And I. So I talked to the boys about, we have to move. We have to find a new place. They know that going and looking at places with Brian. Right. But I don't like to be that kind of person either. I don't want to, like, just, like, swoop in and be like, we're moving, and you have to figure it out, like, deal with it. And I want to honor whatever feelings they might have about it. And I'm going to still decide. I'm the mom. So I, like, that's where I'm kind of getting a little, like, caught up in the narrative or the loop that I'm in about. About talking about it.
- [21:57]
B
Yeah, no, I understand. It sounds like it feels like, in a way, the pressure to move a little quicker than you might have moved otherwise because you're losing this house and, you know, you want to live with the dentist, that it's pushing the boys in a way that rather than the pull that you got to experience, it's pushing them in a way that. That might lead to them struggling and maybe even punishing you, but you can handle it. Sounds like. But you're worried about Brian being punished.
- [22:38]
A
By them.
- [22:41]
B
And in not knowing how to inoculate against that, you're kind of waiting to say it out loud. Although I would suggest they may suspect that if he's looking with you at homes and they know that you can't keep this home, that.
- [23:01]
A
They might already know, or they're wondering.
- [23:03]
B
They're wondering. And in a way, that could be where you start, you know, where you. You get to say with them, you know, guys, I really. I really want to live with the dentist. And how would that be for you? And let that be one conversation that doesn't have to be totally. It doesn't have to be the same conversation of how will it feel to leave this home? Because that conversation can be separate. That. That's the home where perhaps they grew up. Maybe it's the only home they've known. I don't know if you live someplace else first, but.
- [23:45]
A
Yeah, we, we, we. Yeah, we lived in SoCal and moved to NorCal, but it's the only place we've lived ever for eight years. Like we. We moved quite a bit. Yeah.
- [23:56]
B
Eight years. So it's a long time. And for. For Chase in particular, probably his memories of place, the place you lived before are, Are foggy at all.
- [24:07]
A
Yeah.
- [24:07]
B
It's like very seven year olds don't have rich memories of things.
- [24:11]
A
Yeah.
- [24:13]
B
And they, and it's. It's the house where they lived with their dad. They last lived with their dad. It's the house where they lost him. It is. It's a place that has a lot. Now you all carry Brian, your. Your husband with you in a way that isn't just about a place anymore than it would be about a grave, about needing to go to a grave. He's with you. And yet the, The. The box matters, you know, and being curious with them about how. How will it be to leave that house? What. What kind of things might they want to do there? What kind of things would they want to keep from the house? Does that matter? Or that may be much more vivid for you than it is for them. You'll get, get given the space to teach you.
- [25:06]
A
Yeah.
- [25:07]
B
About. And it may surprise them.
- [25:09]
A
Well, I'm also like, curious. Like this is like an assumption. But maybe the house brings more pain than comfort now, especially for Ethan. Like, I mean.
- [25:22]
B
Yeah.
- [25:22]
A
Yeah. I don't. I don't know. I haven't asked that. For me, it brings great comfort. I, I hadn't thought about two separate conversations. Thank you. Because I actually think like we haven't talked about what it means. I mean, when I found out I had to leave, I was pretty emotional, so I was crying a lot, of course, and they were both, you know, sweet and consoling, but I didn't ask them questions, so I think like, that sounds like a really good first conversation. Like, what. What does this mean for you? And I like the what can we do here? Take from here. Because I could think of a few things myself that, That I hadn't really thought about either.
- [25:59]
B
I mean, I love how you're so keenly attuned and to the fact that Ethan is his own person. He's a little different. He's social and he's driven. But he's maybe less of a full feeler or expresser of the feelings than Chase is, maybe than his dad was. But he also is older. He's 21. He's maybe at a slightly different phase where a next house is going to be the house that he'll visit. And Chase's wishes may be very different. Chase is going to be. It may change where he goes to school, right? It could change.
- [26:38]
A
Well, that's the only thing he said, like when we talked about having to move was, I just don't want to change high schools. So, you know, trying to really, like, honor that. Yeah, yeah.
- [26:51]
B
It is protective. I mean, you're. You're not in the immediate aftermath of grief, but you're still in this close aftermath of grief and trying to limit how much disruptive change there is. There's all. All change is hard. Some of it is disruptive and like another earthquake, another reordering of planets. And even the good change is hard, though. And if school is a healthy, happy oasis for him, whatever you can do to protect it, sometimes it's not everything is possible, but you do your best, then that's very protective. We'll be right back after this break. I wonder. I think it sounds also like one of the hardest things is that they're just getting to know the dentist and they're just building, let's call them, authentic relationships with him.
- [28:05]
A
Right.
- [28:06]
B
He's not their dad, and that's obvious. He's not their stepdad. Maybe not yet. We'll see. It feels to you like he is the right person for you and whatever. That's a title that doesn't tell you everything that's inside the book, that what relationship they're going to build with him. You set the frame for and then you let it unfold. You maybe, you know, you fertilize the garden and then you step back and you'll see what grows. And there might be a feeling that living together puts pressure for it to be a certain kind of garden. You're like, I'm just going to plant a fully mature fruiting apple tree in this garden, which is really hard. Those are big and heavy. And instead, in a way, recognizing that what you're going to have in that garden over the next five, 10, 20, God willing, or if force, fate willing, 30, 40 years, like the nice, long, rich garden, will be a little different. Than what the boys have in that garden. It can be wonderful. You know, there can never be too many loving adults in each of our orbits, and certainly a young person's orbit. They don't need another dad. They had a wonderful dad. And they. They will need to know. They can find out what he would have said, would have thought, would have joked, would. You know, that's always important. And they have a chance to build something new, to have extra, to have more, to have double Brian's. Without it being the same. Without it being the same. But how to make that explicit with them? Why not just talk about it directly? Have the conversation. If we talk about it, we can fix it. And it sounds like it might bear telling as well as showing that you're building one thing with him and that you trust him. You feel confident about it in a grounded, real way. You feel hopeful and confident and that they have permission to take their time and to get to know him.
- [30:36]
A
I like that. Yeah.
- [30:37]
B
And that getting to know him. Living in the same house might sometimes feel weird, but you could be, like, sometimes it's weird for me to live in a house with you. You know, like, occasionally, like, it's just. What. Sometimes people need to close the door, and sometimes they need to open it. And you can say. But there's no. There's no expectation that you have to instantly have a certain kind of relationship with him.
- [31:05]
A
Yes. Yeah. I'm trying to, like, not force, but I'm having a hard time with it. I'm having a hard time slowing, like, my energy around it. I'm like, it's going fast. It's going faster than we would have wanted to. Right. Like, both Brian and I, and. And that's just how life is. Is pushing it. Like, last night we were having a conversation, and I was like, we're not really following the plan. I had. Like, you totally messed up my plan. Like, you don't kids until, like, six months. You don't sleep over until, like, nine months. And then we would never move in for a couple years. Like, that was my, like, plan. I feel like I need to build some markers in so that I know, like, you. Like, when they put a flag up. Like, I think I know when those are, but, like, maybe living with someone, I might not see them the same way and.
- [31:55]
B
You mean markers that, like, someone's in trouble.
- [31:59]
A
Yeah. Or like, they need me. They need something and they might not ask for it. I don't. That's not who my boys are. So I'm like, I'm going to like a worst case kind of scenario. And.
- [32:12]
B
Well, you've had some worst case scenarios in your life. I understand that. And you are a single parent, and even though you have a wonderful partner, it's a little different. So you may feel a lot of responsibility.
- [32:26]
A
I do, yeah.
- [32:29]
B
We rarely get reliable markers with our kids. Right. Because you're the expert on your kids. You're like the Library of Congress on your kids. You know them better than they know themselves, but they're also emerging people. Right. So who. Ethan's a little more fully formed, but he's still going to be different in three years than he is right now. And Chase could be a lot more formed in three years. So any markers we try to establish or any expert gives you right now might change. What can be really reliable and protective is to be thoughtful about the fact that you're deepening and you're moving in pace with Brian. I love this idea that there's plans and then there's the pull. And there's one other thing. It's when life intervenes, when you lost Brian and then when you found the dentist and then you're losing the house that, like, some things happen. They're just not in your control. You have no choice but to absorb them and then adapt and respond. But with your boys, being able to protect, it may be as simple as protecting one on one time with each of them for you and them to not create pressure for all of your time with them to also be with Brian so that they know they still have access to their special time with you and that you want to give them space to build a special relationship with Brian. You think he's in it for the long haul and you are. So in a way, they have a lot of time to do that.
- [34:23]
A
Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Yeah.
- [34:25]
B
I mean, I feel like I'm preaching to the choir. It sounds like you have such a wonderfully open, communicative. Uncommonly communicative home with two teenage boys.
- [34:37]
A
But.
- [34:37]
B
But being able to. It can be easier to maybe talk about leaving the house and talk about what it'd be like to live with, what it will be like. Not would, but I would, you know, get the conversation started because then you get lots of chances. You never have to get it right only once. It's every day. And where you get to wonder about the feelings about the house and maybe create the space and show the hopefulness of if I love Brian, I feel pretty good that you're going to find things to like and love about him over Time that he's going to be such a wonderful, valuable and important relationship for you. And in some ways then the sooner that you start sort of saying out loud the hardest part, which is maybe we will be living with Brian instead of would.
- [35:32]
A
Yes, we will.
- [35:34]
B
Can you imagine how you could approach this a first time while you have. You have Ethan and Chase both home right now?
- [35:43]
A
Right now, yeah.
- [35:44]
B
Do you feel confident about just sort of folding it in or what do you think?
- [35:49]
A
What are your thoughts about it? Well, I had thought about just, you know, doing something one on one with each of them. Even if it's like just walking the dog and talking about it.
- [36:00]
B
It.
- [36:03]
A
But I really like the framing for the first conversation to be around leaving the house and like naming that that. That's hard and different. It's a change. And this is where daddy lived with us and where he died and what could we do? And I like the framing too, of like, have never having too many people that love you in your life like that. But the more people you have, like, rooting for you to talk about different things, to just like support you, to pick you up if you needed to, you were stranded somewhere to call when you kiss somebody for the first time, whatever it is, like, the more actually is good, loving, healthy adults in your life. So. But also, like, I've been trying to be gentle about this and less assertive than I normally am. Like, normally I like, just go right in the room and like, lay on the bed next to them or we'll get the car, be like, let's go for a ride, put on music. And they always talk more in the front seat when you're driving than they do anywhere else.
- [37:08]
B
You know that.
- [37:09]
A
And we'll go get a milkshake or whatever and like, you know, and then just kind of start talking about the thing.
- [37:16]
B
Yeah, I think that the. Being more gentle may just mean being yourself being. Being your expressive. You call it assertive, but it just sounds expressive. Like if you're laying on the bed next to them, it is. And what's powerful about that is that they know you're going to keep showing up. It's assertive. If you lay on the bed and you say, I'm not leaving until you tell me you love Brian, like, that would not be. That would be assertive in a way that was not. That could create a tug of war. Whereas instead sort of showing up in your. In the way that's your authentic voice that they know and love and they're used to. If you started acting really different I would imagine, if I had to guess, if they're worried about anything, maybe Chase, he might be a little worried that he's going to lose what he treasures about you, that something else is going to change. So be your true, natural self with him and keep showing up. And then occasionally you can take no for an answer. If he's not ready to talk about it, you can be like, okay, well, maybe Tuesday isn't the day we're going to have a rich conversation about this. I'm going to keep asking, but I'm also still here for you. And you get to take your time building your own connection with him.
- [38:41]
A
Yeah.
- [38:42]
B
There's room for all of it. It will grow. You don't have to know. You don't have to jump to the end of the story. We don't want to jump to the end of the story.
- [38:50]
A
No.
- [38:51]
B
That the good stuff happens in the.
- [38:53]
A
The good stuff is in the middle. Yeah.
- [38:55]
B
Yeah.
- [38:56]
A
It is in the middle. Yeah. Yeah.
- [38:59]
B
I appreciate your. Your authenticity, your honesty, your. Your. Your really keen descriptive powers, your fearless, keen description of where you've been, the lowest and the highest, and also then how. How to then pivot and create space to help these boys thrive and flourish and for you to still be the mom they love. So I really. I thank you for being here with me and sharing this story.
- [39:37]
A
Thank you. Thank you.
- [39:43]
B
If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Premium yet, now is the perfect time. You can listen to Talk about Able completely ad free. Plus you'll unlock exclusive content, like a special meditation from me that'll help you find peace through some of your biggest parenting challenges. Just tap the subscribe button on Apple podcasts. Head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app or listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. That's lemonade. Lemonadapremium.com don't miss out. Talk About Able is produced by Lemonada Media in partnership with the Ohana center for Child and Family Mental Health at Montaj Health and made possible through funding from the Montage Health Foundation. Together, we are committed to helping families talk about the issues that children, teens and young adults are facing today. We believe that when these conversations happen at home, even the most challenging subjects, children build the skills they need to flourish. Because when families are connected, the hard moments become more bearable, the good moments become even better, and it all becomes Talk about Able. This show is produced by Aria Bracci, mixing and sound design by Brian Castillo. Kristin Lepore is senior director of New Content, and Jackie Danziger is vice president of narrative and production. Maggie Crowshaw is our managing director of partnerships. Executive producers include Myself, Jessica Cordova, Kramer and Stephanie Whittles. Wax and a very special thanks to Kelsey Talley and Maya Smith. You can help others find our show by leaving us a rating and writing a review. Thanks so much for listening. Talk to you next week.