My Stepson Is Navigating Opposite Households, and I’m Not Sure How to Help

Summary

Podcast Summary:

Talkaboutable with Dr. Susan Swick
Episode: “My Stepson Is Navigating Opposite Households, and I’m Not Sure How to Help”
Date: September 30, 2025
Host: Dr. Susan Swick | Guest: Jamie Yukas (Emmy-winning news anchor, stepmom)

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Main Theme

This episode explores the unique challenges and rewards of stepparenting in a blended family, focusing on Jamie Yukas’s experience as a stepmom to an 11-year-old boy who navigates two very different households. Together with Dr. Susan Swick, a child and adolescent psychiatrist, Jamie openly discusses the emotional, logistical, and interpersonal complexities of helping a child thrive amid divergent rules, routines, and parental communication styles.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Family Composition and Roles (02:12–04:01)

• Jamie shares her household includes her husband, stepson (11), and their Jack Russell, Sidney.
• She describes her stepson as "incredibly emotionally intelligent, fun, wise beyond his years, and very attuned to feelings." (03:01)
• The ex-wife is not remarried, lines of communication remain formal and sometimes difficult (via “Our Family Wizard” app).

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The Realities of Stepparenting (05:36–07:59)

• Jamie entered the marriage eager and optimistic but quickly learned that blending families is complex.
• She realized, “You’re not marrying just your spouse. You’re marrying two other personalities. All of these types of things are so different.” (06:27)
• Jamie expresses her main question: How can we best support my stepson as he navigates two opposite households—and know when to let go or push back?

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Navigating Divergent Households (09:07–12:54)

• Rules & Routines: Her husband is strict with technology, limiting YouTube and Apple Watch; the other household is more lenient and communicative.
• Parental Expectations: One side encourages sports, the other creativity, sparking people-pleasing in Jamie’s stepson.
• Scheduling Issues: Jamie’s husband favors a consistent week-on/week-off schedule for stability, but the current “5-2-2-5” split can be confusing and leads to forgotten assignments.
• Jamie notes: “He’s around all of us as adults and does love all of us… just all of these things, even something as simple as braces vs. Invisalign become points of contention.” (10:14)

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Supporting the Child’s Autonomy and Identity (12:54–15:26)

• Dr. Swick explains that preteens naturally “try on” different interests and identities. Frequent swapping between households adds an extra layer of challenge.
• Quote: “We as parents… often feel like we’re supposed to be cultivating this epic talent. And really most of their job is to start following—we start following their lead rather than telling them everything they're going to do.” (13:41)
• Both agree overscheduling and conflicting priorities make exploration and self-discovery harder for the child.

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Parallel Experiences: Stepmom and Stepson (15:29–16:47)

• Dr. Swick highlights that Jamie’s balancing act between her husband and the ex-wife mirrors her stepson’s own experience, trying to navigate three adult personalities and avoid upsetting anyone:
  • "Your experience...may in some ways be the closest to your stepson's experience." (15:40)

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Homework Help and Emotional Support (19:15–22:55)

• Jamie often helps with homework projects and speech writing, emphasizing guidance over direction.
• School events are complicated: the ex-wife is uncomfortable with Jamie’s involvement unless she’s present, resulting in Jamie prioritizing her stepson’s comfort over her own desire to attend.
• Quote: “I don't feel comfortable with that… I worry about my stepson because he knows when we’ve been in the same room together there’s tension.” (20:59)
• Jamie notes her stepson might ask for help as a way of connecting or compensating for Jamie being excluded from school events.

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Creating Space for Open Communication (22:55–25:50)

• Dr. Swick encourages Jamie to keep the door open for her stepson to talk—about his schedule, feelings, or middle school transition—framing questions around his experiences, not her own.
• Jamie describes a meaningful morning note exchange ritual, adding levity and affection.
• Quote (Dr. Swick): "All kids actually can't have too many caring adults in their orbit." (21:42)
• Dr. Swick highlights the strain of empathy at a young age: “That kind of empathy is an asset, but it also, you know, when you're 11, it can be a lot to carry.” (24:25)

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Managing ‘No Fly Zones’ and Taking a Curious Approach (25:50–29:08)

• Jamie’s stepson intuitively avoids topics that might cause conflict.
• Dr. Swick suggests being openly curious and helping her stepson find language for the challenges, e.g., calling certain issues “no fly zones”:
  • “You get to be the caring, affectionate journalist who’s an expert on him...helping him find the words to describe how it feels without…taking sides.” (28:05)
• Jamie’s role is supportive, not about being right, but about nurturing self-awareness.

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Family History & Stepfather as a Model (30:24–32:41)

• Jamie reflects on her own upbringing—her parents' late divorce, her advocacy for her mother to leave, and a stepfather who became a mentor.
• The stepfather’s influence was rooted in curiosity, listening, and warmth, not authority.
• Quote: “He was curious and he actually listened to me without jumping in, without giving his two cents. He would ask if I wanted his advice, and he just was really warm.” (32:07)

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The Power of a Non-Parent Mentor (32:43–37:05)

• Dr. Swick emphasizes the value of mentors and caring adults beyond legal parental status, especially for teens and preteens:
  • “Your story is…there's something so beautiful that you got a stepfather who helped you develop into your fullest self…” (33:33)
• Jamie, as a stepmom, can be that person for her stepson: a mentor, an accompanist, and a listener.
• Dr. Swick highlights that empathy can become a burden if it leads to chronic people-pleasing, but Jamie can help her stepson balance care for others and self-awareness.

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Guidance for Stepparents: Being Present, Not Perfect (37:05–39:02)

• It’s not always about action; sometimes it’s about being on a discovery journey together, helping the child articulate his feelings and themes that might need adult attention.
• Dr. Swick: “You are a mother, you are a stepmother... and you get to step into this situation a little earlier, when he is just looking into his adolescence…”

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Jamie’s Reflections and Takeaways (38:23–39:41)

• Jamie appreciates being reminded that the child is her “first”—her first experience as a parent, deeply meaningful and important.
• Quote: “...sometimes the other household creates (a story), like, well, she didn’t give birth to this kid, so why does she have a say in this?” (38:40)
• Dr. Swick affirms: “He is your first child. And you’re here for a reason. And he needs you. He needs you.” (38:56)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jamie Yukas: "You’re not marrying just your spouse. You’re marrying two other personalities. All of these types of things are so different." (06:27)
• Dr. Susan Swick: "We as parents… really most of their job is to start following—we start following their lead rather than telling them everything they're going to do." (13:41)
• Jamie Yukas: “I worry about my stepson because he knows when we’ve been in the same room together there’s tension.” (20:59)
• Dr. Susan Swick: “All kids actually can't have too many caring adults in their orbit.” (21:42)
• Jamie Yukas: “He was curious and he actually listened to me without jumping in, without giving his two cents.” (32:07)
• Dr. Susan Swick: “He is your first child. And you’re here for a reason. And he needs you.” (38:56)
• Jamie Yukas: "I think this is so incredibly helpful... there are still so many questions and you’ve been able to help boil it down and make it very digestible." (39:02)

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Key Timestamps

| Topic | Timestamp | |---------------------------------------------------|-------------| | Family setup & stepchild’s strengths | 02:12–04:01 | | Challenges of stepparenting: expectations vs. reality | 05:36–08:18 | | Example: technology & scheduling differences | 09:07–12:54 | | Identity, interests, and exploration in preteens | 12:54–15:26 | | Stepmom/stepson's parallel experiences | 15:29–16:47 | | Homework, school events, and support | 19:15–22:55 | | Open communication—note exchange ritual | 22:55–25:50 | | ‘No fly zones’ and being a supportive listener | 25:50–29:08 | | Jamie’s own family story—stepfather as a mentor | 30:24–32:41 | | Mentor role of stepparent & power of accompaniment| 32:43–37:05 | | Being present: not always needing to fix | 37:05–39:02 | | Affirming the stepmom’s role and importance | 38:23–39:41 |

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Tone & Closing Remarks

The conversation is warm, empathetic, and validating, with Dr. Swick highlighting the strengths Jamie already brings to her family. The episode reassures stepparents that their presence, curiosity, and willingness to listen matter greatly—sometimes even more than having all the right answers. Dr. Swick's affirmations leave Jamie (and listeners) feeling empowered for their unique roles in children’s lives, especially in blended families.

Transcript

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Lemonader.

[Jamie Yukas]

When I knew that I was going to be marrying a man with a child, I was kind of all in on making sure that I could do my best to not screw this child up and at the same time had zero tools in the step parenting world. My stepson is navigating two very different worlds, two very different systems, two very different schedules. How can we best serve him? Where should we be letting go? Where should we be pushing back? Just kind of navigating all that.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

I'm Dr. Susan Swick and this is Talk about a Ball. Jamie Yukas is an Emmy winning news anchor in Southern California. In the mornings, she gets up long before me and even before the sun to deliver news to viewers. And on either side of these intense work shifts, she's also navigating the ins and outs of being a stepmother. She married her husband several years back and she met his son a few years before that. And from the start she's been doing her best to thoughtfully and delicately figure out her role in their lives, including managing communication with her husband's ex. But she still worries she might be getting some things wrong. This is a conversation about blended families, the challenges and the wonder that can come with unconventional relationships. How we can use our strengths to face these challenges and maximize what can be amazing in these unconventional arrangements. Jamie, I want to start by saying thank you. I'm so excited to have this conversation with you. Before we sort of jump into talking about the particulars of the situation, I'd love to hear who's at home with you, who lives in your home?

[Jamie Yukas]

Yes. I have my husband, I have my 11 year old stepson and I have a newly turned one Jack Russell terrorist named Sidney.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Sidney. Oh my God. Is Sidney a boy or a girl?

[Jamie Yukas]

A girl. She's the best.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Jack Russell's are very smart.

[Jamie Yukas]

Well, we got like I've had Jack Russell's before. They're my favorite because they are so smart. But I am, I know. I got her into training the second day we had her.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

That's amazing. And there's no other, no other children from his, from Doug's first marriage?

[Jamie Yukas]

No.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

So I have a question for you about your stepson. And that is if you could tell me what you think his greatest gifts, his special talents are.

[Jamie Yukas]

My stepson is an incredibly emotionally intelligent child. The way he carries himself speaks to adults. His happy personality. He's always wanting to entertain. He is just a light. He's very fun, very fun kid, but I think wise beyond his years and very attuned to feelings.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

I'M writing these things down. They're beautiful the way you describe them. So wise beyond his years.

[Jamie Yukas]

Yes.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Okay. It can be hard for a really attuned, empathic 11 year old to navigate two homes. Is Doug's ex also remarried or dating?

[Jamie Yukas]

She's not remarried. She. She has dated. We're not sure if she's currently dating. Okay. But no.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Okay. And does. So it sounds like there isn't. There aren't easy lines of communication with her.

[Jamie Yukas]

That would be a great way to put that.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Okay, good. Okay. Are there any sort of informal or predictable lines of communication? Is there a weekly email? Is there.

[Jamie Yukas]

Oh, they. Yes, they, they. So I've come to learn all these different applications and terms and things. They use our family wizard and once a provide an FYI back and forth between the households. And then obviously if something big transpires or comes up, then there's an update within the OFW to let each other know kind of what has transpired.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Got it. All right, so let's jump in. I see the stage set for some of what can be challenging to navigate and to navigate with. With your stepson. Oh, and that's the last critical piece. He just started middle school, is that right?

[Jamie Yukas]

He did, yes. We're two weeks in.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Whoa, whoa. It's such a momentous developmental time.

[Jamie Yukas]

Yes.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

So why don't you tell me in your words what you'd love to start with, what you'd love to jump into. Talking about.

[Jamie Yukas]

Oh my God, what a big thing.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

We have lots of time.

[Jamie Yukas]

So having now entered the world of being a stepmom, I have now been able to learn a lot of things, but in the beginning knew absolutely nothing. And so. And I've now come to see that that is so true for like, it feels like 90 to 100% of stepmoms, like you enter thinking, I'm going to. I'm this great person. I have all these, you know, I've done all this work on myself because, you know, like, I'm at an older age a lot of times and like, I know what I'm going to do and this kid's going to love me and the ex wife's going to love me and everything's going to be like, amazing. And then you enter the realities of this is my experience. The reality is you're not marrying just your spouse. You're marrying two other personalities, at least in my case. Right. So what I've come to know to be true is those are three very different personalities and the way that they problem solve where Boundaries are. All of these types of things are so different. And I am someone. I love children. I've worked with a lot of children in my job. I wanted my own children. It has not happened for me. And I came from a very difficult household. And so when I knew that I was gonna be marrying a man with a child, I was kind of all in on making sure that I could do my best to not scre this child up. And at the same time, had zero tools in the step parenting world. And so my question is, how can we best, from the lens of my stepson, be the best household and myself leading that when there are two very different households? My stepson is navigating two very different worlds, two very different systems, two very different schedules. How can we best serve him? Where should we be letting go? Where should we be pushing back? Just kind of navigating all that.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

I love that. In a way, your challenge is that you came into this marriage and this family with an idea of what you could do and what you wanted to do and being ready and then recognizing that you may have limited levers.

[Jamie Yukas]

Yes, yes.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

To be able to land in that way. But I wonder if you may have more lovers than you know. I think one of. I want to hear a little more detail about your stepson and what may be highlighted for you as maybe not working so well. Either it's a bone of contention between you and your husband or between him and his ex, or that your stepson is having to navigate on his own, sort of managing it between three adults. Are there things that are really not working right now? Like where. Like his. You say they have homes with really different rules.

[Jamie Yukas]

Yes.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Can you give me an example? Tell me some different rules.

[Jamie Yukas]

Yeah, let me kind of go through. So I think, you know, a lot of household. The funny thing is, I think if it's a very high conflict situation, you have everything from, like, bedtimes to, you know, like, every little thing. I don't think they're in the every little, little thing piece of this. It's a lot of times navigating. My husband is very adamant, doesn't want a lot of technology, doesn't want him watching YouTube, limits the use of his Apple watch, which just. He just let him start wearing to and from school, but will not let him wear it in the house because he doesn't want the pinging. The communication styles are very, very different between the households. I would say, you know, I love my husband, but in terms of communication, wants it very limited, very. Just direct, straight to the Point, not a lot of it. Whereas the other household really wants a lot of connection points. A lot of. Even when he's my stepson is here and with his dad, I feel like there's. With both households, there's one who really wants him to lean into a certain sport, while the other one really wants him to lean into a creative place. And I see him kind of trying to people please. And then I think there's sometimes over scheduling. The schedule itself, they can't really find agreement. My husband would love now in middle school because there's so many changes at school to have week on, week off so that he has a steady kind of schedule. And the other household wants to keep what we have now, which is a 5, 2, 2, 5, which means we have them every Monday, Tuesday, she has them every Wednesday, Thursday, and then they alternate weekends. And we see him struggle a lot in that, losing things, forgetting about assignments, and sometimes working both households with that of like, oh, have any homework? It turned out well, you did. It was just due on Friday, but you weren't with us Wednesday, Thursday, so you think you didn't have to do it Monday, Tuesday kind of thing. I think emotionally, I just see him so wanting to please because he is around all of us as adults and does love all of us. And we. And we as adults have made sure that we let him know it's great that he loves everybody. And it's just all of these things, you know, even something as, like, my husband wanted my stepson to get invisalign. The other household wanted braces. And like, they can't agree on it. And then finally, you know, it's. It's just. It's all those things that you don't. I don't think anybody thinks about when they go to get divorced and then another person comes into the mix who goes, well, I can kind of see that, or I really need to support you as my partner. So then you're kind of stuck in a place. So I can only imagine. I know where I'm at. I can only imagine for him where he can end up.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Yes, yes. What are his interests? What are the things he wants to do when he has free time?

[Jamie Yukas]

The funny thing is that's where I bring that up, because I don't really know. And we had a conversation the other day about. There was. Seemed to be. You know, he had signed up for lacrosse, and there seemed to already be like some. Like, he was a little conflicted because he also had said that he had an interest in water polo and he also does drum lessons at our house every Tuesday, but then he didn't take the elective band. So it was like we were trying to figure out what is it that you actually like to do. And then you add in with this kid who I do think has a lot more time on YouTube at the other household, he gets interested in funny things like Yo Yoing or magic. And so then he's like all in on that until he's not. So you're left going, what?

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Yeah, yeah. Oh, it's so. And you know, 11 year olds are wired to begin exploring, figuring out who they are, right? It's those preteen years when they're younger kids, they're happy to master whatever is kind of put in front of them, whether it's like wall ball at school recess or the, you know, the basic rules of math or spelling. And as they start, as they enter middle school and they, they approaching adolescence, they begin to explore more deeply different interests. Here's what is weird about that they don't. They'll try it on like a new coat and they'll wear it around sometimes for two days, sometimes for two months. It could be two years before they figure out, no, this isn't my coat. I don't think this is my coat. And that we as parents especially, you know, we got used to what they were like when they were just doing everything that was handed to them. And we think our job is to, you know, help them, you know, figure out who they are and cultivate their extraordinary gift so that they can become, I don't know, the next Tom Brady or the next Yo Yo Ma or, you know, that we often feel like we're supposed to be cultivating this epic talent. And really most of their job is to start following we start following their lead rather than telling them everything they're going to do. Kind of clear the way for them to explore and not be too broken hearted when they're done with something that we made a lot of time for. This gets so complicated between two homes, right?

[Jamie Yukas]

Yes.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. I mean, just scheduling because as you've observed, sometimes you have to say, well, these, you know, boy lacrosse and water polo and drum and yo yo all sound really great, but we can't drive you to all of those. And the Yo Yoing Masters tournament that's happening in Texas this year, you know that they have to make choices too, right? And, and navigating that is really hard when there also are this sort of divergent schedule. And three parents in the mix.

[Jamie Yukas]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

I'm also kind of struck that it sounds like in a way your experience of this may in some ways be the closest to your stepson's experience of this.

[Jamie Yukas]

I never really thought about it like that, but yes.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Right. Because he may be a little worried about not upsetting one parent or the other, not betraying one by being interested in something the other really likes, or trying to navigate all balance those different forces and trying to manage communication between those two households. And that you also may feel like you're trying to do a balancing act, maybe not between Doug and his ex, but recognizing that your stepson's mom, his bio mom, is a very important person in his life beyond the fact that she has legal rights and custodial rights that we want. We want your stepson to have a wonderful, strong, healthy relationship with her.

[Jamie Yukas]

Yes.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

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[Jamie Yukas]

It was funny. It was really early on. There was a project that he was going to need poster board for and other stuff. And he came to us, and of course, it was like, on our weekend. And so he asked me if I would take him shopping. Sure. So we did. I tried to understand the assignment, and then he asked if I would sit down and do it with him, which I did. Yeah, he's run for, like, student government. He comes to me for that. He wants help with speech writing and that kind of thing. And I'm mellow. Like, I'm not telling him how to do the assignment. I'm kind of guiding him through. If he writes something, I say, do you want my input? Yes. Okay. This may be how we want to present it this way. Or what if we added a prop or something? Oh, okay. I like that idea. I always let him come to the conclusion himself, but try to guide. But the hard part is, so my husband, because he is so. Doesn't want the communication. And she wants a lot of involvement. She does not want me involved at school. At the school, I can help with homework at home. But there have been different events that other moms have asked me to come participate in, or that type of thing will only allow me to do it if she's there. I don't feel comfortable with that. And I've just said. And the reason I don't feel comfortable is not my feelings. I worry about my stepson because he knows when we've been in the same room together, there's tension. And I see him struggle between, who am I gonna go to? Like, if I spend too much time over here, is somebody else gonna be mad? I watch it. So I've just decided to not participate in those things because it's more important to me for him to be comfortable in what he's doing than it is for me to participate. So I sometimes wonder, too, if he gets me involved in homework because he wants me involved and knows I really can't do some of that other stuff.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

So he's taking care of you. He wants you to feel good sometimes.

[Jamie Yukas]

And that's why I say I do worry. He's people pleasing everybody.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

How could you check in with him about that? Because in a way, you have a. He's lucky to have you. You know, all kids. I mean it. All kids actually can't have too many Caring adults in their orbit. And when children are navigating the aftermath of divorce, they grow up fast sometimes, right? They have to figure out how to be intermediaries within limits. They have to navigate two very different household, two different sets of rules. Sometimes they're in the middle of fights. But I wonder if you have a chance to make sure that the door is open for him to talk with you. Maybe not about you and your role. He may think about it and worry about it, but to keep it sort of centered on him, where you get to be curious with him, even about his schedule. You know, like, how is the. How's the swapping weekends? How's it go? Do you think it's going to be different in middle school than it was before? And maybe that's a step too far. Maybe it's more about homework. How is homework? Or how is middle school different than 5th grade? What do you see so far? Is there a time of day where he's especially. I mean, he's probably. You probably don't see him in the morning if you're up, I don't know, really early.

[Jamie Yukas]

No, but you know, what we've started doing that's working for us, and you can tell me if I should shift this. Or maybe it starts with the morning routine and then we circle back. The minute I moved in, I've been in this schedule, right, where I get up very early the whole relationship. So I always leave a note for him in the morning where I either tell him something I was proud of him for, or I'll ask, what do you want to do this weekend? Do you have thoughts on that? Jot me a little note. I always tell him I love him, I'm gonna miss him, all that, and he'll write me back. This morning's is so funny to me because we finally watched K Pop Demon Hunters together. He's apparently watched it eight times everywhere else in the world, but wanted to watch it here. And we watched it and I wrote him and said, you were right, because I was hesitant. You were right. It was a very good movie. I really enjoyed it. Thank you for bringing that to me. And he wrote back like, K Pop Demon Hunters is the best movie ever. And then did a demon head. So we have this kind of, you know, like, I'm usually a little serious in the note. And then he's kind of funny. So it. But there might be points there. I could bring it back up then later.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Oh, it's wonderful. It's wonderful. Your stepson sounds first of all like he has, like you said, high emotional intelligence. So he's super attuned to people's feeling states. That kind of empathy is an asset, but it also, you know, when you're 11, it can be a lot to carry. It means you really feel it when there's terrible things in the news, when there's something hard happening at school or there's lots of conflict or heavy feelings at home. And it may feel a little more navigable, if that's a word with you. Sure. Yet that he may have a good intuitive sense that you're more comfortable, a little more fluent listening and talking about that kind of stuff, all those things than maybe his dad is. His dad may not be as intuitive or is comfortable with that stuff. And again, in adolescence, that thinking and paying attention to those things, especially if you're an empathic kid, is going to be like it's going to exert a gravitational pull on him. Do you feel as though, are there times where he wants to talk about his mom and you have to sort of say, oh, we can't. Is there no fly zones? Is that part of what can be hard in spending time with him?

[Jamie Yukas]

He's so emotionally savvy. I think he gets it, you know what I mean? Like, I think he knows what's a no fly. He may say, like there may be a rule, right. That gets. Or even, even the Apple Watch, I'll use as an example. Like he wasn't able to use it over here for the last, last year and a half at all. And then when his. So he can now bike to school, which is great. It's like an eight minute bike ride from our house and it gives him independence. My husband was going to just throw an ear tag in his backpack, you know, just to see. She said she wouldn't let him do it even with that and that she wanted him to start wearing the Apple watch. So my husband's boundary was, well, if that's fine, he can wear it to and from school. We'll know he's there, he can message us and then it's going in a box when it's at my house. I think we thought that was gonna be an issue. And for him, he's like, no, I kinda like that. That's good, we're fine. It's not like, well, why does mom have this rule and you have. We haven't had to really navigate that much.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Yeah, you also, you get to be as curious as he is, but help put words to it. Okay, so what I'm thinking about is I Like that you may not have to stay out of the no fly zones. I mean, you may have to stay out of the no fly zones, but you can also identify them. You can also say with him, okay, well, I guess the Apple Watch is a no fly zone. I mean, come up with your own phrase. Because he's going to be like, what are you talking about? But being able to say, look, your mom and dad can't agree on this one yet. And so we're finding a way to have it both ways. And then you just get to be. He doesn't have to also please you or also navigate you. You get to sort of be. I mean, you can be a journalist with him, but you're the. You're the caring, affectionate journalist who's an expert on him, who loves him, who is a parent to him. And you're maybe helping him find language to describe this without it being language of who's right and who's wrong. Because that's often the peril, especially the early after divorce, is that it feels like every situation has to be about someone's right and someone's wrong. Someone's a winner, someone's a loser. And being able to kind of hold well, they both believe sort of different things. And maybe some things, we're gonna try it two different ways in two different houses. And you'd be like. Then you get to be like, how is that? See, I think that could be really confusing. Or maybe it's great. Maybe you get to actually have the Apple Watch. And dad feels okay about it because you don't wear it at our house. But to be curious with him, like, let him describe his experience that. His experience of it. You don't have to be a third person to please. You're profiling him and you're helping him find the words to describe how it feels without feeling like he gets drawn into a taking sides situation.

[Jamie Yukas]

Right.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

You know, your stake in it is that you want him to be okay and that you love his dad and you want him to have good, healthy relationships with. With both parents. And there are going to be decisions that need to be made in the coming years. Like maybe 5, 2, 2, 5 will continue. And maybe there will come a time where you're like, whoa, he's not getting his homework done. It's too. It's too chaotic to have it so changeable. So it needs to be week on, week off. Or you'll give it a try, or you'll think that's going to be the change. And it's Going to be something totally different. There's going to be. Right. Like, this is the thing about life and particularly about, like, early adolescence is they bring us surprises. We make plans. We make plans, and then they will surprise us.

[Jamie Yukas]

Yeah, I'm already starting to see that.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

We're going to take a short break and we'll be right back with Jamie.

[Jamie Yukas]

What's funny is that I actually. I begged my mom to divorce my dad at 14 and said, you can do it on your own. Like, we can. We. We can figure this out. We. It was such a contentious, like, just household, and my mom really felt that she needed to stay. My brother's four years younger, and it was kind of like, you're the strong one. You can see what's going on. You know, you can stick it out. I gotta, I gotta stick it out here for him and, you know, navigate life and finances and all these other things that my, My mom finally did. She and my dad did divorce when I was about 19. So much older in life. Right. And. Or maybe I was even twi. 20, 21, something like that. And my, My mom did re. Partner and. And fairly quickly. And initially I didn't know what to think because I'm like, oh, she's just jumping into another. Whatever, like, you know.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Yeah.

[Jamie Yukas]

And I ended up loving. My stepfather was a fantastic individual. And he. He really, at that time in my life, I was going through a lot of changes in my career and moving and my job and a lot of different things. And he really became a mentor figure to me as someone I could. I could call up.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Up.

[Jamie Yukas]

And then I actually was married before. I got married young, around 25. And when I went through my divorce, I actually, he was the. He was the only person I told for a very long time.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

What do you think made it possible for you to trust your stepfather?

[Jamie Yukas]

You know, he. He was curious and he actually listened to me without jumping in, without giving his two cents. He would ask if I wanted his advice, and he just was really warm.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Well, I'm so struck too, that your stepdad came along when you were 19 or 20. Right. Or older. So even if he had had official legal rights, they would have been irrelevant. You were legally an adult.

[Jamie Yukas]

Right.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

And he was, nonetheless became a very valuable human in your life, in your development. He was a caring, mature adult who cared about you and took the time to listen and get to know you and mentor you. I love that word. It's so wonderful because it's centered on you. You know, your story is. There's something so Beautiful in your story that you got a stepfather who helped you develop into your fullest self, right? And through a really tough period where you were learning about who you were and who you wanted to be. Now, now you are a mother, you are a stepmother to a boy, also sort of across gender. And you get to step into the situation a little earlier when he is just looking into his adolescence, looking into the window, when he gets to start experimenting with who he is, trying on lots of coats, wearing them for a little while or a long while. And you get to be his special mentor who's a gift to him, who is not there because you have to be. And you're not there to win a fight or to prove anyone right or prove anyone wrong. And you get to help him develop his voice and his language because he has to be true to himself. He can't not be empathic and caring. And yet to cultivate those, that's a talent in a way, right? It makes for amazing broadcasters, newscasters. You can connect with people across the screen. That's incredible. But it also can be a burden. Our great gifts also can be burdens until we learn how to manage them. Being that empathic can turn you into a people pleaser where you make choices to try to produce, to take care of others, and you can lose track of who you are or what you need. So you get to be his accompanist a little earlier. A little earlier where he may really, really need a stepparent. And in some ways, it sounds like you're doing it so beautifully already that he comes to you when he has homework. And I expect there will come a time where as you're inviting him and in a way, as you're doing projects with him, like sitting next to him, helping him with a campaign or with a diorama. There's no more dioramas in middle school, I've learned. I always talk about them. And parents are like. Like Sweck. There are no more dioramas. They're done. I'm like, okay. But being next to him and working on a project will be a lovely time to also just be curious, follow his lead. You know, when he talks about how it was really, he left something at Mom's, so he doesn't have it now without it having to be about who did what when and who was wrong. To be able to say, gosh, it must be hard sometimes to just have to go back and forth and remember what is in one house and what is in the other. Is it, you know, you'd Be like, I would find that hard. But what about you? To. For him to know. I love that. Actual listening, like being curious without having to. There isn't a foregone conclusion that you're inviting to support, which can happen a lot in two different households. And instead you're helping him. You're not just curious about what he thinks and feels, but you're helping him figure it out.

[Jamie Yukas]

I like that because I think there's. Yeah, I'm really getting what you're saying, and I appreciate that because I do think there is too much sometimes of the. Like, I'm curious, but then sometimes I don't know what. I feel like I need to do something with the information. Right. Like, oh, what do I now do? Do I need to tell dad this information? Do I need to just hold this information? And so I like that. Like, it's almost like we're kind of on a little journey together of me helping him figure out his words. Yeah.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

And you're also a good journalist, and you will notice when there's some themes emerging that might be a moment where he will need the grownups to all get on the same page about something. And you, you know, you'll. You'll pick that thoughtfully. But for you to, to go to Doug at a quiet moment and be like, I think you and your ex are. Are going to need to find a way to talk about this one. And, you know, this is you. Your stepson is your first child, your husband's first child and his ex wife's first child. They don't have another. And he's entering adolescence, which will bring a lot of new territory.

[Jamie Yukas]

Thank you for saying that. Cause I've never thought. Because I think as the stepparent, you think I've entered this child. You know, I wasn't there at birth, so I'm not like, I'm not as important or I'm not. I don't have as big of a role or I'm, you know, you create a story in your head and sometimes the other household creates it. Like, well, she's, you know, she didn't give birth to this kid, so why does she have a say in this?

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Why does she get to go to birthday day at school and be part of reading a special book or whatever it might have been? But he is your first child.

[Jamie Yukas]

That's funny.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

And you're here for a reason. And he needs you. He needs you.

[Jamie Yukas]

Oh, you articulate everything so beautifully. Thank you. Now, I just want to say, I think this is so incredibly helpful because as a journalist who's constantly trying to seek out information and just feeling for so many years that there isn't a lot of good information. So I've gone out and done my own therapy, couples therapy, parenting classes, you know, participated in co parenting therapy, done all of that now for several years. Have a good relationship with my step kid. There are still so many questions and you've been able to help boil it down and make it very digestible. So thank you. It's much appreciated.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Well, I appreciate you for participating and I'll say your stepson is so lucky to have you.

[Jamie Yukas]

Oh, thank you.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Premium yet, now is the perfect time. You can listen to Talk about Able completely ad free. Plus you'll unlock exclusive content like a special meditation from me that'll help you find peace through some of your biggest parenting challenges. Just tap the subscribe button on Apple podcasts, head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app, or listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. That's lemonadapremium.com don't miss out. Talk about able is produced by Lemonada Media in partnership with the Ohana center for Child and Family Mental Health at Montage Health Health and made possible through funding from the Montage Health Foundation. Together we are committed to helping families talk about the issues that children, teens and young adults are facing today. We believe that when these conversations happen at home, even the most challenging subjects, children build the skills they need to flourish. Because when families are connected, the hard moments become more bearable, the good moments become even better, and it all becomes Talk about a bull. This show is produced by Aria Bracci, mixing and sound design by Brian Castillo, Kristen Lepore is Senior Director of New content and Jackie Danziger is Vice President of Narrative and production. Maggie Crowshaw is our Managing Director of Partnerships. Executive producers include myself, Jessica Cordova Kramer and Stephanie Whittles Wax and a very special thanks thanks to Kelsey Talley and Maya Smith. You can help others find our show by leaving us a rating and writing a review. Thanks so much for listening. Talk to you next week.