← Tarot Bytes
Tarot Bytes
Creativity As Self-Care With Tarot and Ritual with Cassandra Snow and Siri Vincent Plouff
00:40:29
Loading summary
Transcript53 lines
- [00:00]
Cassandra Snow
Foreign.
- [00:18]
Teresa Reid
Hello and welcome to Tarot Bites. I'm Teresa Reid, the Tarot lady. I'm the author of Tarot no Questions Asked Master Narrative Intuitive Reading and Twist yout Fate, Manifest Success with Astrology and Tarot. I'm also your host for this podcast series. This is episode 237 of Tarot Bites, the podcast where I dish out short, entertaining, bite sized lessons on how to read Tarot. And for today's episode, our topic is creativity of self care with Tarot and ritual. I've got two special guests with me, Cassandra Snow and Suri Benson Plouffee. Welcome, Cassandra and Suri. So good to have you both here.
- [00:56]
Cassandra Snow
Thank you so much. We both love being here and love the show so much.
- [01:01]
Teresa Reid
Well, I've had both of you on here before and I love talking to you both and having you both at the same time while this is like totally doubling my pleasure. So let's, let's get right into it. And I want to talk about creativity first. Can you tell me what creativity is to you? How would you define that? Yeah, I see the wheels turning.
- [01:29]
Cassandra Snow
Yeah.
- [01:32]
Suri Benson Plouffee
Yeah. I feel like creativity in this moment as I'm thinking about it right now. Creativity feels like taking something that is inside of you and bringing it to the outside. And it is a form of self expression. You know, perhaps you're driving, you know, bringing up like things that need to be healed or things that, you know, you're working through in your unconscious. Sometimes you just really want to create something that's silly and fun and that's it. But it really feels like this, like outward expression of your inner world. To me.
- [02:21]
Cassandra Snow
I love that. Yeah. I think for me it's. I mean, that's a very good description. I think I was thinking it is the act of creating things or being in the process of creating things. But I feel like that is very much backed by imagination and then probably a love of whatever medium you are creating in, as well as reflection and thought. So it is. I really like how Siri said it's like bringing all of that imagination and play, but also thought and contemplation kind of out into the world to make something else, even if no one sees it, which is a lot of what the book focuses on.
- [03:10]
Teresa Reid
Right. We're going to talk about this amazing book in a minute too. You know, creativity, it always kind of astounds me what people come up with and how they get inspired. One of the things that really blew my mind a couple years ago, I watched this documentary on the Bee Gees and Barry Gibb was talking, and I talk about this every so often because it still sticks in my head. He was talking about how they were driving and there was something wrong with the tire, and it kept making this click. Like they were going over, like, I think, the Brooklyn Bridge, and they hear this click, the click, the click. And he said he couldn't get it out of his head. And he came home and pulled out his guitar. And by that beat that he got from that drum, or not from the drum. Excuse me, from the tire. The tire sound. He wrote jive talking. And that. I mean, that blew me away. I'm like. I mean, think about that. How somebody is able to hear a tire, and they get inspired. The other thing that blows me away are sculptors. You get this big thing of rock, and somehow now you created David. I mean, what the. It freaks me out. I mean, what inspires you both.
- [04:21]
Suri Benson Plouffee
We talk in the book a lot about creative. Oh, my God, Cassandra. My brain.
- [04:32]
Cassandra Snow
That's okay.
- [04:33]
Suri Benson Plouffee
Inputs. Creative inputs, and how those are really essential to the creative process. And if you're kind of experiencing a lot of blockages or something like that, you know, it's time to go to a museum or time to spend some time in nature or, you know, do something that sort of fills your well, or take in a work like someone else's creative work that can inspire you. For me, I would say that nature is a huge inspiration. Other people's art, in a lot of cases, is a huge inspiration for me. Like, part of the reason why I have as many tarot decks as I do is that I love art, and I find that they bring up different interesting things to me. Yeah, I don't know. I. I feel like there's inspiration to be found in almost everything for me, so, like, it's hard to narrow it down.
- [05:36]
Cassandra Snow
Yeah, I. Nature is a big one for me. Other people's art is a big one for me. I will say I have a lot of anxiety about, like, accidentally putting forward something that isn't actually mine. And so a lot of time, I'm inspired by other people's art in very indirect ways. If I'm working on a book, I will go to a museum to look at visual art, but I won't necessarily read a ton of other people's tarot work for inspiration. Like, I still will to learn more about the tarot, but. And likewise, you know, I. Before the pandemic, I ran a theater company, and I wouldn't necessarily go to other plays for inspiration, but nature is a big one for Me as is, then I would read like other books for inspiration. So that's definitely a important part of it for me. This surprises people because I am so deeply introverted. I ended up alone in my apartment last night just watching a comfort show till really, really. Well, really till this morning, just because of circumstances. And I barely slept. But I feel more energized today than I. I have in a long time.
- [06:54]
Teresa Reid
So.
- [06:56]
Cassandra Snow
But as introverted as I am, I actually really am inspired by conversations with people, by hearing people's stories, by hearing other people's point of views that maybe are in conversation with mine, but maybe are not and maybe are different. And so I really like hearing what other people have to say, not necessarily in their art, although that is a big piece of it, but just as people and I like kind of mulling over like really good conversations, whether they're very funny or very thoughtful, until something kind of comes from that later on.
- [07:34]
Teresa Reid
I love that and I'm kind of the same way. Conversations will often spur creative ideas. Well, I'm a Gemini, you know, so words are everything and conversation will sometimes get me thinking. I was just talking to Joanna Devoe on her podcast and she asked me the question about if you could be bitten by a vampire and be immortal and never have to bite somebody again, would you prefer that over, you know, being bitten by a vampire, then you're done and you're, it's over and you, you don't have to like, you're dead. And I'm like, oh my God, I'd want to be immortal, you know. And I started really doing a lot of thinking about immortality, wrote a blog post about it and I'm still thinking about that conversation. Conversations can oftentimes really get our brains turning around and, you know, churning out lots of different ideas. So I think conversation's a big one for my creativity. So what role does creativity play in your self care practices? I mean for me, I could say real quickly, cooking. Cooking is one of my ways where I get creative and food is a self care thing. For me. Cooking is a way for me to wind down at the end of the day and come back to myself and to say work is done. Now it's about you, you and this food and your favorite television show. So what about you? What role does creativity play in your self care?
- [08:51]
Cassandra Snow
I think it. So for me it is actually a ton of my self care. Cooking is a big piece of it. I play a lot of TTRPGs. I do some improv as well, which I originally did because I Was like, well, this will help me understand new facets of theater and help me come up with cool exercises for actors in the rehearsal room. Because I was a producer director. And then it ended up just being so cathartic. And so, I don't know, it just felt so good to get out there and do whatever I wanted and not think about it, but still be creating something. And so it really became just a thing I did for fun. And I go to jams and stuff, which is just when you all perform for no audience with improv. And I have no desire to do it professionally in any way. So that's a big one for me. And then I'm a huge journaler. I do my morning pages, but often, and I'm pretty mentally ill, and I'm really open about that. And if my brain gets too mean to me throughout the day, one of my tools is to pull out my journal. And one thing my therapist has me doing now is like writing out all of those thoughts but then scratching them out just so they're out of my brain. But then usually that does still inspire other creative stuff that helps me with catharsis, et cetera. It just kind of gets it out. Yeah. And then that creative input that Siri talked about, I'm a huge. I'm a voracious reader, but I'm also a voracious watcher of TV and movies. I love going to live art events, even if it's a little scary right now still. And so I think that while creativity output is so much self care for me, that input is really restful for me, and that's a really important piece of it.
- [10:51]
Suri Benson Plouffee
Yeah. I think that there is something to be said for. Creative input being a huge part of it for me, because I do see that still, like, I don't know, in some ways, like doing something like curating a Pinterest board is creative, but you're also, you know, curating, you know, photography from other people or something like that. I am also a big journaler, but in a very different way from Cassandra. I actually do like bullet journaling, which, for those of you who don't know, bullet journaling is a system of basically like a combination, like absolutely everything notebook and creating your own planner throughout the year as you go. And that is really helpful for me because it gets all of those details out of my head. Like I can just put them into a daily log and they're there on the paper and I can doodle or I can use fun stationery or something like that. And it Ends up being sort of like a keepsake. Like, yes, this is something I use a lot for work, but I think bullet journaling for me is a lot more than that because it is about, it is also about my personal life and, you know, things that I was thinking about in the moment. So that is a huge creative outlook for me. That is just for me. That is not like for others to consume. Right. I mean, I feel like now that the book is out there, obviously, like I have a podcast as well. And that is very much creative output. That is not like for me. I mean, it can be a form of self care because I find creativity and like the, the process of doing the work to be very fulfilling. But it's not self care. It's. It's outward, you know, it's like really outward even. So this is kind of an interesting one, especially because this is the Tarot Bites podcast. But I would say even my like daily ish tarot draws can be a source of creativity for me because finding a new nuance or meaning or engaging with a new tarot deck and trying to get to know it or an oracle deck or something like that can be a moment of creative rest almost at the beginning of the day because it feels again, it's that sense of like something within me is coming out. And tarot meanings are very nuanced. And the more you read, the more you learn and the more it gets, you know, things get really interesting, I guess. And I find that to be a really interesting sort of creative process that is just for me.
- [13:54]
Teresa Reid
Yeah, I love that. And you know, tarot for me is also very creative. We love the art. Most tarot people, we are in it for the art, we're drawn to it and it always has a inspiration and I love that. Suri, you talked about how tarot is a source of creative inspiration for you. What about you, Cassandra? How does tarot factor in with your creativity and self care?
- [14:19]
Cassandra Snow
It definitely does. So my morning pages, I actually, I am not a morning person at all. And I know that you and I have talked about that because you're not either, but. And so I do my morning pages and to me, I do get the most out of doing them first thing. But to do that I usually need to get my brain drawing. I'm usually sipping my coffee, but haven't actually like it hasn't processed or hit yet. And so I usually pull a tarot card and then I start doing, you know, all the tarot journaling exercises we tell our students to do and stuff like describing the card and kind of writing out your own interpretations, things like that. But then also from that, going into various writing prompts. I've written sketches. Like, I love comedy, and we talked about me doing improv based on the tarot cards. In that practice, I've also. I. It's helped my other writing and other ways doing that. Yeah, I often will turn cards into prompts too. If I'm like, working on something but still trying to figure something out, I'll pull a card and use it as a prompt in that way. But I otherwise agree with everything you both said. For me, it is so much about the tarot itself just being art that is reflective of what is going on or not. And it's like kind of up to you to figure out how to get there. And yeah, I also think I sometimes need. I think this is true of most people who use tarot for themselves a lot. But I very often need something to simplify what I'm thinking or feeling like. I think it's so complicated and messy and no one will ever understand. And then I'll pull a tarot card that's like. It's actually these three things, and it helps me kind of narrow it down down. And that's a huge process of like, my mental health and taking care of that. So it directly helps me with self care in that way. But then certainly the creativity that spawns from that is always really lovely.
- [16:36]
Teresa Reid
Beautiful. Now, I know in your book you do talk about ritual, and I would love to hear from both of you, what is your favorite tarot ritual? Because ritual is very, very good for self care. But I want to hear about a tarot ritual.
- [16:53]
Suri Benson Plouffee
So at our events, on our book tour, we each read from a section of the book that we wrote. And I've been reading from the archetypes section, which I. It's. It's really spurred a lot of like, oh, like you kind of moved away from this process theory. Why did you do that? And kind of like re examining process of working with archetypes and conceiving of archetypes. But I. I love a good tarot altar. I mean, I feel like it's a really common ritual, but it packs such a punch. It's so potent for me. Like, you know, this book is Lessons from the Empress. And since we submitted it, I believe I have kept an altar to the Empress specifically that I have fed with, you know, candles or, you know, for a while there, I was burning like a stick of incense on that altar every day. So it has really taken on a life of its own. And I'm thinking of moving into a new Tarot altar. I don't know what it will be yet, though, so that is really great. I feel like also, it's a beautiful expression of, you know, that archetypal work where it's like, I see an altar as, like, a place where I can meet the spirit of whatever, whoever it is that I am speaking with. So a lot of people who worship deities may see an altar as a space where they can interact with their deities. Those do ancestor work, you know, may create an altar to their ancestors where they can meet those ancestors. Creating an altar to a tarot card is really a ritualized form of speaking with the spirit, or some might even call it an egregore. But I prefer the term archetype of that card. And I mean, really, truly, like calling in the spirit of the empress card or calling in the spirit of the magician or something like that. Or you can even do it for the Minor Arcana, which I think would actually be a really beautiful challenge because they're so much less obvious in certain ways. And there are instructions in the book for how to create a tarot altar, and I do sort of go into that there so that people can do it for themselves, whether they want to create an altar to the Empress or a different archetype. Another Tarot ritual. I will use tarot in other spell work sometimes, like, if I want to use the spirit of the magician for this manifestation spell or something. Right. Like, I may keep the magician on the altar, and I may look up traditional correspondences for that card, because there are a lot of, like, you know, correspondences for the cards, as in, the magician is associated with this gemstone and this scent and this, you know, this other symbol. So, yeah, I think those are the biggest ways that I use Tarot ritual. I mean, of course, I also do see a daily ish reading. And I say daily ish because I think that a lot of people get really down on themselves if they try to start a tarot ritual of reading for themselves every day, and they miss a few days, and then they can really beat themselves up. I've seen this with students. No, no, you just need to do it when you need to do it. And sometimes I'll go months without doing, like, a really regular daily practice. And then times like now, like, I've read a card for myself every day this week. I might skip tomorrow, who knows? Right. So that's why I say daily ish.
- [20:57]
Teresa Reid
Beautiful. And what about you Cassandra?
- [21:00]
Cassandra Snow
Yeah, I, I also, I'm big on just incorporating tarot into my rituals, as is I specifically use it a lot in protection work. For whatever reason. That's the way it shakes out. I'll pull out some tarot cards from a deck I'm not using very often to amplify protective spell work, using that imagery for visualization or, you know, the spirit of the card or any sort of spirits or entities I associate with it, calling those in. I love doing art spells. I'm not a good visual artist at all, but I like doing what I call art spells, which are essentially making a piece of visual art, but as a spell, so using, you know, color correspondences and what you're doing, as well as sort of collaging various other correspondences, whether that's herbs or images or whatever. And tarot usually is where I start with that. Usually I say, okay, I'm gonna do an art spell that is a collage and I'm gonna start with this lovers card or whatever it is. And so then I put that in the center. And a lot of what I try to build on top of that for the spell is complementary to that. So that's probably my favorite way. I also, if I recommend students who are willing to invest this, actually have a deck that they at all times that they use primarily for spell work. And so they can destroy cards if they need to or something like that because like a good old fashioned freezer spell, but with, you know, a card that identifies like, and then with the person that you're freezing and then sort of tearing that to shreds and putting it in the ice cube tray. I don't do that often. Like that's not the type of magic I primarily do. But if need be, I'll stick some notes and some pieces of tarot cards in an ice cube tray for a freezer spell.
- [23:07]
Teresa Reid
Right on. Well, sometimes we gotta do what we gotta do in order to protect our energy. That's self care right there. Protecting your energy is one of the most important things that we can do to take care of ourselves. And I don't think people talk about that enough, so I love that you gave that suggestion. So of course, with all this talk about creativity and tarot, I mean, we know that the Empress is a tarot card, but what does the Empress have to do with all this creativity stuff, all the self care stuff?
- [23:40]
Cassandra Snow
Well, I think the self care piece almost feels very in the name and in that very rich imagery that usually encompasses the. Or that usually like that black. I'M going to start that over. I feel like self care as a concept, as a broader concept, is very baked into the imagery we see of the Empress, as well as even the name the Empress. It's about taking control and autonomy. And, you know, you just talked about protecting your space. And it's also about remembering that you are the one that is, like, in charge. This is your space. And I think that that is especially true for. Needs to be true for marginalized people. But, you know, everyone can benefit from that idea, especially the idea that, like, you have your own space, your own energy field, et cetera, that is yours to protect. So I feel like a lot of the self care piece feels almost. I don't want to say self explanatory, but it's. If you go searching in your card through the imagery, you'll see a lot of stuff there. I think the creativity part, I think we are in a time where for a long time, people wrote about this as a card of motherhood or mother issues or something like that. And I have been thrilled to be alive in a time where that's not necessarily true. And we're sort of being like, well, actually, we create a lot more than other people. Like, what else do we create? And so it's been really cool to see that. And I think using that idea of creation and taking your creativity that seriously is really key in the Empress for me. And I say seriously, just meaning, like, you dedicate yourself to it, you give yourself time and space for it. We all know that after 40 minutes of being serious about anything, I expire. So we just mean that sort of devotional piece. I also think a lot of the Empress imagery, not in every deck, but in many decks, is very baked in, like garden metaphors. And so thinking about beautifying your space and doing really creative, wonderful things with your literal and metaphorical space, folds into both ideas of self care and creativity. So those are some ways.
- [26:15]
Teresa Reid
Suri, do you have anything you want to add to that?
- [26:18]
Suri Benson Plouffee
I feel like Cassandra really hit it on the head in a lot of ways. I think that the Empress. One thing that really came through for me really strongly is that the Empress is about self sovereignty in a lot of ways. And, you know, to have the confidence to put your creations out in the world takes a certain level of being comfortable with yourself and knowing yourself. And also I think that, you know, is huge for self care, of course, you know, and I think that for a lot of people, self care is trying to get them to that point of feeling comfortable and What I refer to as self sovereignty, as being, you know, fully understanding or in, in the truest version of themselves and allowing themselves to show up that way.
- [27:19]
Cassandra Snow
I think of it as a card of embodiment to kind of adding to that. That's the language I usually use. And so that more than almost any other Tarot card, speaks to me of really embodying the ideals of it. And so that would be ideals of creation and not even just self love, but I think even self devotion in a lot of ways.
- [27:42]
Suri Benson Plouffee
Yeah, I think that a lot of the rituals in particular that we have in the book speak to a certain level of self devotion that is beautifully supported by the Empress archetype.
- [27:58]
Teresa Reid
Right on. That makes total sense for me. And you know, speaking of the book for folks who are listening, so Cassandra and Siri wrote a book, I've got it in front of me, called Lessons from the Empress, a Tarot workbook for self care and creative growth. It is an amazing book. It's got a forward by Lisa Marie Basile, who I absolutely adore as well. I, I, I mean this when I say this and I've said it out loud. I wish I would have written this book. It is so, so good. I love how you're, how you both work together on this book. I love the exercises in it. I think it is just a profound book for healing, for creativity and for, you know, Tarot. So of course I would love to hear from both of you what was the inspiration behind this book? It's a very different Tarot book and I love that. What's the inspiration? What made this happen?
- [28:50]
Suri Benson Plouffee
So, yeah, this kind of stemmed from a series of classes. The first year of the pandemic, I co hosted Self Care for Weird Times with our mutual friend Lacey. And then the second year I reached out to Cassandra and I was like, hey, I want to do this. And we both kind of decided to shift it from just being about self care to being about creativity and creating a space for creatives to come together and feel the support of Tarot and learn about Tarot and all of that. And so the quote unquote workbook for the class ended up being around 100 pages. So, you know, that's clearly like more of a book at that point than it is a truly just for a class, a workbook. And so I asked Cassandra, hey, maybe we should like sell this as a zine on our website. And Cassandra said, I think this is too long for that. Let's just pitch it.
- [29:58]
Cassandra Snow
I think I was literally like, who wants to read a 100 plus page zine.
- [30:04]
Teresa Reid
You're right.
- [30:07]
Suri Benson Plouffee
And so we ended up pitching it to Wiser and they loved the idea. They especially wanted us to build in more self care aspects because the original manuscript was really, really focused on creativity and I think it made the book a really unique. Yeah, the structure of the book is very unique in that it is so much creativity and self care. It's not like I feel like a lot of books that involve tarot and creativity are like tarot for writers or tarot for, you know, artists or something. Or it might be a book that's only about self care and doesn't add this other piece in. So I think that it ended up being a very rich ground for us to write from.
- [31:02]
Cassandra Snow
Well, and I think for me too, part of the reason I was so interested in creating the classless Siri that we created was because I am so, so happy with the success of my first two books. Querying the tarot and queering your craft. And I'm so happy with like the article series and the community I built around them. But I feel like in doing this work, I just feel like there are like really core parts of my identity that I was still not really able to pull into that work. Creativity and artistry being a huge piece of them and then. But what I loved about this book, and this has come up in so many interviews, is this is still a book for people who have been like, marginalized or shut out of mainstream conversation or mainstream culture in general. And if anything, it's taking all of these ideas from the work I've done there and the incredible work Siri has done on the Heathens Journey podcast and basically saying, oh, hey, now it's your turn. Like quote unquote, write your book or write your podcast, whatever that's gonna be for you. And here's a guide using tarot and some simple rituals to help you do that.
- [32:17]
Suri Benson Plouffee
It feels like it's really like we've talked about, you know, these things from a very queer, radical lens. And this book is almost like, all right, we see you and now it's your time to thrive.
- [32:30]
Cassandra Snow
Yeah, I love it.
- [32:33]
Teresa Reid
I love the book. I think it's amazing. For folks who are listening, Lessons from the Emperor is a tarot workbook for self care and creative growth. It is available wherever books are sold, online and off. I would also recommend, because I'm going to tell everybody you need to get this book again. It's very unique that you can go to your local indie stores and your local Indie metaphysical stores and request that they get the book in stock. I think that's really important so we can support our local businesses. I also recommend reaching out to your libraries and asking them to carry the book because for folks who maybe don't have the money to buy the book, they can check it out in the library. They. They can benefit from the work in this book. It is really amazing. So Cassandra and Siri, where can people find you if they want to learn more about your work, your classes and all the things that you two are up to?
- [33:27]
Cassandra Snow
So my one one, that was incredible. Thank you so much, Teresa, for that sort of promo bit. The only thing I do want to add real quick before I segue into where to find me for access reasons is that there is also an ebook if people need that. And you can actually request ebooks through your library too. That is a way to do that. Just because I know not everyone can physically carry a book or you just read better on a device or whatever.
- [33:57]
Teresa Reid
So.
- [33:57]
Cassandra Snow
And we strongly encourage that. That being said, I have a website, Cassandra Snow.com I am actually right now in the midst of all this open for readings right now. They are sparse and that also might change. But as of now that is the case. So hop on and do that. You can find me on Instagram at Mix Cassandra Snow that's Mx Cassandra Snow. And then I think the other big thing would be if you want to support the writing I'm doing as well as I put tons of free content on my Instagram. Instagram, you can support me on Patreon patreon.com Cassandra Snow It's a little quieter right now because this book is coming out or is out now. That being said, I have a pinned post with just like tons and tons of things. I've written about tarot learners for all levels.
- [34:53]
Suri Benson Plouffee
Yeah, I highly recommend, if you're interested in becoming a patron of Cassandra, I highly recommend the pinned post because there's just so much. You are very prolific.
- [35:05]
Cassandra Snow
I.
- [35:06]
Suri Benson Plouffee
So okay. The hub of most of my work online is@northern lightswitch.com there's also a tab on my website where you can find, you know, book tour events and a link to pre order the book and all to order the book. At this point it's actually out. So there's that. And then I also am active on Instagram at Siri Vincent as in Van Gogh plus L O U F as in Frank. F as in Frank. I have a lot. We both have a lot of like copycats and scammers using our image. So we all do.
- [35:51]
Cassandra Snow
Yeah.
- [35:52]
Suri Benson Plouffee
Yeah. So definitely be careful, I would say, but there should be a link on my website to the correct Instagram account. I am also active as a podcaster. I'm in the midst. I'm somehow in the midst of season two of the podcast right now, which is the Heathen's Journey podcast. If you are interested in runes or heathenry, Nordic mythology, all of that stuff, definitely give that a listen. And my Patreon is focused around the Heathens Journey podcast at this moment, so it's patreon.com heathensjourneypod although I do have a huge backlog of stuff as well that you can check out.
- [36:42]
Teresa Reid
Amazing. So, folks, you know what you're gonna do. Not only are you gonna order the book, you're gonna make sure you check out Cassandra's World and Siri's World, learn more about them, study with them, take classes with them. They will help you to grow as a reader and as a good human, too. I. I've met both of you and spent time with you in person. You two are so incredibly fabulous, and I feel so honored to know you both and just really treasure the time we had together. And I'm hoping there's many more times like that in the future.
- [37:15]
Suri Benson Plouffee
I hope you too.
- [37:16]
Teresa Reid
Yeah, I know.
- [37:17]
Cassandra Snow
I miss. I was like, when your other books are coming out, I'm like, oh, is it going to be safe enough for Teresa to come back to Minneapolis? And it just never is.
- [37:28]
Teresa Reid
Maybe next year we'll see. We'll see how things pan out.
- [37:32]
Cassandra Snow
Yeah.
- [37:33]
Teresa Reid
All right, well, thank you both for being here today. And that wraps up this episode of Tarot Bites. And I like to always save the best for last. So I have an announcement. After much reflection, I've decided this will be the last episode of Tarabytes. When I started this podcast and my other one, Astrology Bites, my goal was to offer quick hits of wisdom for folks who wanted to learn metaphysical stuff, but really didn't have a ton of time or money for that matter. You know, this has all been a labor of love. It's been free with no sponsors, none of that stuff. And I hope I've been able to serve you well all these years. But now it's time for new things. I've got many more books to write, and I also want time to deepen my own Tarot and astrology. I so skills to study more and to teach what I know and, you know, anything else I might discover along the way. I also really, really, really want to hone my writing skills, so I'm putting a lot of energy into these things. I've enjoyed serving up this info and helping other people fall in love with Tarot and astrology. Hopefully you're as in love with it as I am, and I hope that you are inspired to continue to study, to read all the books out there, and to keep on shuffling every day. Now you can keep in touch with me and my work and any upcoming offerings by visiting my website thetarolady.com and signing up for my free newsletter. I'll always keep you up to date. I mean, who knows, maybe I'll even do the podcast again. You just never know. I also teach Tarot astrology and business over on my patreon account. That's patreon.com theterolady Be sure to sign up. There are fresh classes every month, daily forecasts, political astrology, and monthly live astrological events. There's a lot going on over there and so many replays. So I want to thank you again for listening today and all these years. I really do hope that you have a beautiful day. And by the way, if you enjoyed the podcast, I would love it if you would do me a solid. Head on over to itunes and leave a kind review that will help more Tarot curious people find their way to this little podcast library. And as always, I like to close up by saying pay close attention to your intuition throughout your day and let it guide you into making brave, excellent choices. Remember that you are always in the driver's seat of your life. You are in charge of your decisions, your plans, the action steps that you take or don't take. You're the boss. And if you don't like where your life is headed right now, you can change that. Nothing has ever affix in stone. The Tarot cards tell a story, but you write the ending.