David's Decadent Bet, AI Discovery & Austin's Top Operators

Summary

Taste Radio Podcast Summary

Episode: David's Decadent Bet, AI Discovery & Austin's Top Operators
Date: June 5, 2026
Host: Ray Lateef (with co-hosts John Craven, Melissa Travers, Mike Schneider)
Podcast: Taste Radio by BevNET

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Episode Overview

This episode blends lively product tastings, industry trend analysis, and in-depth interviews with top operators in food and beverage. The hosts sample and dissect Peter Rahal’s new David Protein frozen desserts, examine the importance of simplifying brand stories (with the Smash Food rebrand), and discuss AI’s growing impact on consumer discovery and retail. Later, insightful interviews from Taste Radio’s Austin Meetup feature executives from Nutribolt, Bloom, Corner Market Communications, and Next Foods, who share practical lessons on scaling brands, modern PR, and the keys to sustainable industry success.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Sampling David Protein Frozen Desserts

• Peter Rahal’s Expansion: The co-founder of RX Bar, known for high-protein snacks, launches an indulgent high-protein “frozen dessert” (not legally called ice cream due to ingredients).
• Taste Test: Four flavors sampled (Vanilla, Chocolate, Triple Peanut Butter, Cookie Dough).
• Ingredient List: Features a “protein system” (water and whey protein isolate), “structure system” (allulose, glycerin, gums), “fat system” (modified plant fat), and various sweeteners (sucralose, stevia, monk fruit).
• Positioning: Most protein for fewest calories; pints boast 30g protein and as little as 210 calories.
• Verdict: Mostly positive ratings, even from skeptics.
  • “I really wanted to not like this, but I have to say … for the macros, and then it’s really tasty.” – Melissa Travers (08:47)
  • “In a blind taste test, you’d have a hard time picking out the David ice cream from some other actual ice cream.” – John Craven (09:24)
  • Some taste that the artificial sweeteners linger; product is denser than Halo Top.
• Comparisons/Context: Discussed in context of the “old” David bars, which were less indulgent. New products reflect a pivot to flavor focus.

Timestamps

• [04:08–14:54] – Tasting and discussion of David frozen desserts

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2. Brand Naming & Simplification – The Smash Food Case

• Background: Chia Smash (chia-based jams) rebrands to Smash Foods, enabling product expansion.
• Key Insight: A broader name helps brands avoid being limited by a single ingredient or product.
  • “The transition from Chia Smash to Smash Foods … was obviously a brilliant move and allowed them to expand their portfolio.” – Ray Lateef (16:06)
  • Industry tip: Don’t put ingredient names in your brand (echoing advice from investor Mike Bergmeyer).
• Counterpoint: For some, like Protein Pints, ingredient-on-brand may make sense if it's the core draw.

Timestamps

• [15:55–18:21] – Brand naming discussion with examples from Smash Foods and Protein Pints

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3. AI’s Role in Product Discovery & Retail

• Trend: AI is rapidly becoming central to how consumers discover and purchase products.
  • “The report shows how consumers are using AI not just for discovery but for purchase as well … one in three consumers uses AI to explore CPG.” – Melissa Travers (19:22)
• Industry Response: Upcoming BevNET Live will feature AI workshops focusing on operations, retail, and making brands “legible” to AI agents.
• Key Takeaway: Early adoption could be a competitive edge for emerging brands.

Timestamps

• [19:09–20:55] – AI in CPG; upcoming events and workshops

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4. Rapid Tastings: Emerging Snacks and Collabs

• Scoops Peanut Protein: High-protein peanut powder for smoothies and oatmeal.
• Top Seedz Crackers: Seed-based crackers lauded for flavor and packaging (clear window showcases quality).
• Duluth x Old Milwaukee Underwear: Humorous branded merch collab, on-brand for both companies.
• USO NA Sparkling Tea: Chamomile flavor impresses hosts. Cited as a champion in non-alc beverage innovation.

Timestamps

• [21:12–27:38] – Tastings: Scoops, Top Seedz, USO, collab merch discussion

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Featured Interviews from Taste Radio’s Austin Meetup

A. Jason Cantelli – Chief Commercial Officer, Nutribolt ([29:44–34:49])

• Scaling Multiple Brands: Nutribolt manages C4 and Bloom by prioritizing consumer needs and investment “ruthlessly.”
  • “Through ruthless understanding and prioritization of our consumer, we can continue to fuel [multiple brands].” (29:44)
• Digital to Retail Success: Leveraging Bloom’s influencer/community strengths and Nutribolt’s retail execution yields rapid in-store growth.
  • “Within less than a year to be able to achieve double-digit share within the better for you soda space…” (31:16)
• Advice to Founders: Stay scrappy, wear many hats, always challenge resource allocation, think like an owner.
  • “Lean and scrappy … challenge yourselves to invest in a very responsible fashion.” (33:48)
• Key Point: All ladders back to consumer understanding and addressing their evolving needs.

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B. Megan Kelleher – Founder/CEO, Corner Market Communications ([35:13–41:28])

• Modern PR Defined: PR now requires a goal-driven, channel-specific, and results-focused approach (not “spray and pray”).
  • “It’s not just about the New York Times … it’s telling the story in the right channel to the right audience for the right goal.” (35:57)
• PR as Partner, Not Vendor: Founders should treat PR agencies like internal team members—transparency and inclusion are key.
  • “Invite them to the table … explain the goals, explain the challenges … let them weigh in.” (37:22)
• Practical Tips for Founders:
  1. Lay out transparency and business goals from day one.
  2. Maintain regular communication/check-ins.
  3. Prioritize PR partnership—“be available, be an equal partner.”
• Proof in Results: Points to successes like the LesserEvil sale to Hershey as the result of true partnership.

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C. Mark Sagan – CEO, Next Foods (Goodbelly, Cheribundi) ([41:29–50:15])

• Reinvigorating Legacy Brands:
  • “We reinvented the way we talk to consumers … re-engaged social media … launched new formats like Shots and dairy-alternative protein drinks.” (42:36)
• Distinguishing Brand vs. Product: Brands may evolve even as product relevance wanes; brands must cherish consumer relationships and embrace new channels.
• Transparency & Ownership: Team is trained to understand margins and invest resources with an “owner math” mindset.
  • “Every team member can tell you what [margin] is for any of our products … that owner math is vital.” (46:20)
• Culture as the Competitive Edge:
  • “Culture is everything. It unlocks innovation, it unlocks team efficiency. … Founders must bring the team along into the vision.” (48:00)
  • “The most important thing to get right: culture and thinking like owners.”

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D. Erica Tam – SVP of Brand, Bloom ([50:30–59:32])

• Building Enduring Brands:
  • “You can have the best branding but if your product isn’t truly good, people won’t come back. Great product comes first.” (51:29)
  • Storytelling and ‘hero creation’ are equally vital to building loyalty.
• Community-Led Development:
  • Collect real feedback before and after launch (surveys, flavor labs, retail events).
  • “Our community literally lines up for taste tests … we let them help us choose new flavors.” (53:32–55:55)
• Retail Execution: Choose retail partners carefully, utilize displays/pallets as instant content studios, activate community on treasure hunts for product discovery.
• Cost-Effective Early Marketing:
  • “Content would be number one … people love to follow the founder’s journey.” (58:22)
  • Strategic gifting to small, authentic creators can drive genuine buzz.
  • Use local events and community feedback for grassroots traction.

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Notable Quotes

• On Brand Evolution:
  “Don’t put the ingredient name in your brand name.” – Mike Bergmeyer, quoted by Ray Lateef (15:55)

• On Product Focus:
  "Taste, taste, taste. You cannot have a great brand without great taste.” – Ray Lateef (13:14)

• On Modern PR:
  “It’s not about the spray and pray … it’s about being very, very specific in the goal that you’re trying to accomplish.” – Megan Kelleher (36:23)

• On Culture:
  “Culture is everything … it unlocks innovation, it unlocks team efficiency. … If the team owns authenticity … you have a real chance to win.” – Mark Sagan (48:00, 49:43)

• On Early-Stage Grit:
  “How can you just wear many hats, find another scrappy way to do it, not lean on the luxuries of over-investing?” – Jason Cantelli (33:48)

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Essential Timestamps

• [04:08–14:54] — David Protein Frozen Dessert Tasting
• [15:55–18:21] — Brand Naming: Chia Smash to Smash Foods, Protein Pints
• [19:09–20:55] — The Rise of AI in Product Discovery
• [21:12–27:38] — Tastings: Scoops, Top Seedz, USO, Duluth x Old Milwaukee
• [29:44–34:49] — Jason Cantelli (Nutribolt): Scaling Brands, Consumer Focus
• [35:13–41:28] — Megan Kelleher (Corner Market): Modern PR Tactics
• [41:29–50:15] — Mark Sagan (Next Foods/Goodbelly): Legacy Brand Renewal, Owner Math, Culture
• [50:30–59:32] — Erica Tam (Bloom): Brand Building Through Product, Community, and Content

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Memorable, Lighthearted Moments

• Ice cream taste test shenanigans: “Fling ability, 10 out of 10 ... if I hit John right in the eye, that would have been ... pretty impressive.” (10:57)
• Underwear collaboration: “That's the secret with Duluth … no pinch, no stink, and no sweat, which is exactly what you want when you're on the beach and drinking beer.” (25:50)
• Ray’s sign-off on product focus: “Taste, taste, taste … We have a great brand, and it tastes great!” (13:32)

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Takeaways For Food & Bev Entrepreneurs

• Prioritize taste—no amount of clever branding can make up for mediocre product.
• Name for future flexibility—don’t lock your brand into a single ingredient.
• Use AI and digital tools early; it’s quickly becoming essential for discovery.
• Invest in culture and team transparency; the “owner math” mindset is vital.
• PR is a strategic partner, not a commodity—partnership yields the best results.
• Ground marketing in community, feedback loops, and cost-effective content over big spends.
• Retail presence is still vital—innovate how you activate at shelf to merge digital and physical.

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This episode provides an honest, lively, and practical look into building—and growing—food and beverage brands in a consumer landscape increasingly shaped by wellness, digital discovery, and community engagement.

Transcript

[Ray Lateef]

Bevnet Live New York City is June 10th and 11th, and if you haven't registered yet, now is the time. It's two days of conversations with the people moving this industry forward. Founders, buyers, investors all talking about the challenges and opportunities shaping the beverage industry right now and in the Future. Head to bevnet.com to grab your spot and if you're already registered, post about it. Tell people what you're looking forward to, what you're bringing to the show, or

[Mark Sagan]

what you're doing to get ready. Tag us on Instagram, LinkedIn or TikTok.

[Ray Lateef]

Add BevNet as a collaborator and you might just end up on our feed before the show even starts. Hello friends, and thanks for tuning in to Taste Radio, the number one podcast for anyone building a business in food or beverage. I'm Ray Lateef, the editor and producer of Taste Radio, and with my co hosts John Craven, Melissa Travers and Mike Schneider. In this episode, we sample the latest opus from Peter Rahal's David Protein brand, a new line of indulgent frozen desserts, aka ice cream. We also discuss Smash Food's $5 million funding round, what the company's evolution from Chia Smash reveals about the power of simplifying a brand story to fuel growth. The team also examines AI's growing influence on product discovery and purchasing decisions, what that shift could mean for emerging brands competing for consumer attention. Later, we revisit a series of insightful interviews recorded at Taste Radio's Austin Meetup, featuring Jason Cantelli of nutribolt, Meghan Kelleher of Corner Market Communications, Mark Sagan of Next Foods and Erica Tam of Bloom. Well, you know we are right on the cusp of Bevnet Live when our colleagues are building podiums in the room next door to this studio, our very own Captain Colin well, sample Captain Colin Sample Captain Colin is building a podium that you will see at Bevnet live next week, June 10th and 11th in New York City. Of course, you'll only see it in person, that is if you are there. So if you haven't already gotten your tickets for Bevnet Live, now is your last chance to do so. Bevnetlive.com you will be able to meet retail buyers from Whole Foods, Walmart, Wegmans, Morrison's and the Vitamin Shop. What I say that's how I say

[Melissa Travers]

that's how you're I went to Walmart. Yeah, I had a voice and articulation class at Emerson College and that you're supposed to say what? That's how you're supposed to do only

[John Craven]

if it's a wh. Not Quegmans and Walmart.

[Melissa Travers]

Quigmans.

[Mike Schneider]

Of. Of all the problems we have with this podcast.

[John Craven]

Yeah, that's just, just another one. Well added to the list.

[Ray Lateef]

As far as I know, there are no investors attending that whose names begin with a WH. But there are lots of investors coming to BevNet Live as well as distributors, suppliers, founders, service providers, everyone that you

[Mike Schneider]

would want to be team members.

[Ray Lateef]

You want to meet them, of course. And that's what I'm saying. That's included within the group in the aggregate.

[Mike Schneider]

Got it.

[Ray Lateef]

Anyone that you would want to meet who is in the beverage industry will be at BevNet LIVE. And it is just an event that you cannot miss if you're trying to scale your business. Take your brand to the next level. You want to be in New York City with us next week?

[John Craven]

Yeah. Bring your team, bring your agenda, bring your hardest questions you need. Sales help, operational help, packaging, you name it. We've, we've got people in the room who can answer those questions and can become your partners, take you to the next level.

[Melissa Travers]

And you know, I gotta say, whether you've been to BevNet a million times or you've never been before, this week's non based podcast is with Jeff Kleinman who's put the show together with the rest of our team, of course, and he talks through everything that we're going to be doing. The the agenda, tips for getting the most out of the show. So go to nonbase.com and check out this week's podcast.

[Ray Lateef]

Absolutely. And you'll get to meet sample captain Colin at the event. If you haven't followed him, if you bring samples. Yeah. If you haven't followed him on Instagram, you got to follow the sample captain. He is at Sample Captain on Instagram. Great content, really good content. I'm waiting for him to do his own sample of what's in front of us right now, which is the brand spanking new David protein ice cream.

[John Craven]

When you open these pints and you find like that they're half eaten. That was Sample captain Colin.

[Ray Lateef]

Yeah, it might have been, it might have been the captain.

[John Craven]

He like when something arrives, he immediately opens it and like if it's a beverage, he's interested, he's guzzled it. If there's, if there's an ice cream, he's tasted it. If there's a chip, he snacked on it. That's why he's the sample captain.

[Melissa Travers]

You know, I see vanilla chocolate. I was Kind of hoping for a cod flavor.

[Ray Lateef]

Yeah.

[Mike Schneider]

Ice cream. No, that's a. No.

[John Craven]

Well, seasonal skew.

[Ray Lateef]

Melissa's referring to the, I guess, parody of protein.

[Melissa Travers]

It's hard to say whether it's a parody or not, but sure, no one knows. No one knows.

[Ray Lateef]

Well, everyone knows, David. Which is the brand of high protein bars launched by Peter Rahal, who is one of the co founders of RX Bar. And David teased these frozen dessert ice cream products at Expo west via those trucks that were going up and down the street in front of the convention center. And Peter emailed me earlier this week and said, hey Ray, can we send you some pints? I was like, absolutely. So shout out and kudos to Peter for sending us these. As Melissa mentioned, there's a vanilla, there's a chocolate, there's a triple peanut butter, and there's a cookie dough triple peanut butter. I brought bowls, I brought serving spoons. I bought.

[Mike Schneider]

Getting into it, Ray, I gotta say, the, the toppings you brought were a nice touch. The little baseball helmets.

[Ray Lateef]

I didn't bring any of it.

[John Craven]

Fenway franks.

[Ray Lateef]

All right, well, okay, John, you get, you, you got the serving spoons. You get into these. While you're doing that, I'm gonna read the macros on these products here.

[Melissa Travers]

And you know, I'm curious to see the ingredients because the reason that they were driving around Expo and weren't in the building exhibiting is because of the ingredient. There is an ingredient in there that made it so that they weren't able to sample it.

[Mike Schneider]

Call that maybe sucralose.

[Ray Lateef]

Well, it does say it's artificially flavored, so at least the vanilla bean, so. And also notably, it's not described as an ice cream. It's described as an indulgent frozen dessert. But clearly this is and looks like an ice cream.

[Mike Schneider]

I love that. Trying to stay two steps ahead of the class action lawsuits.

[Ray Lateef]

I mean, look, if it doesn't have the, the ingredients that are associated with ice cream or, you know, I'm not

[Mike Schneider]

knocking David, to be clear, but, you know, savvy operator, I wouldn't be surprised if of course, they were doing okay.

[Ray Lateef]

Well, I, I think there's a, a standard for ice cream that you have to have a certain type of ingredients. And maybe this doesn't have those, all those ingredients. All right, so the vanilla bean has 30 grams of protein, 210 calories per pint. That's, that's, that's impressive. And less than 1 gram of sugar, as I mentioned, naturally and artificially flavored. The ingredients are in Order of what's listed here. Protein system, which is water whey protein isolate.

[Mike Schneider]

Okay, what just went by my shoulder?

[Melissa Travers]

It's a bird. It's a plane.

[Ray Lateef]

It's a scoop of David.

[Mike Schneider]

Scoop of ice cream.

[Ray Lateef]

Jesus. Scoop of David. Indulgent frozen dessert.

[Jason Cantelli]

Ray, he brought this stuff as hard as a rock.

[Melissa Travers]

It is quite solid.

[Ray Lateef]

It just flung some across the room. The irony is that John was all worried that the ice cream was going to melt. And it's still, you know, after 10 minutes on the table here, it's still pretty hard. So once again, the first ingredient listed is per their protein system, which is water whey protein isolate. Second is their structure system, which is allulose, glycerin, locust, bean gum and guar gum. The next is their fat system, modified plant fat, which is epg, and then their flavor system, which is natural and artificial flavor. Salt, sucralose and vanilla bean. So this is. Someone described this as the new Halo top. I think it was Andrea Hernandez from Snack Shot. And I don't know if I would say that because halo top was very light and literally, literally light in weight. This is dense. And I never really, to be honest, I never really loved Halo top. I never loved the flavor of it. I know people said you could eat the entire pint in one sitting. I don't imagine you would eat Halo tops pretty good. I don't imagine you would be eating the entire pint of this. Melissa, what do you think?

[Melissa Travers]

I really wanted to not like this, but I have to say, I feel like the flavor is, I mean, not bad for the macros, and then it's really tasty. I know, I know, I know.

[Ray Lateef]

I'd be like, oh, I didn't want

[Mike Schneider]

to, like, come on.

[John Craven]

It's really good. It's surprisingly good.

[Melissa Travers]

Okay. For me, the. The ingredients, like, I don't know. I like my ice cream to be like heavy cream and sugar and eggs. So, you know, if. If I look at an ingredient panel and I see a bunch of systems, it immediately turns me off. But the consistency, like Ray says, is dense, like an ice cream. I. I am impressed.

[John Craven]

I think in a blind taste test, you'd have a hard time picking out, like, the David ice cream from some other actual ice cream. In the. Disagree in the vein that you said.

[Melissa Travers]

The sweetener for me is the first.

[Mike Schneider]

Yeah, the sweetener.

[Melissa Travers]

Yeah, sweetener.

[Mike Schneider]

It's got. It's got a little texture to it, almost like a. I don't want. I don't know if grits the right word, but like you know, I, I don't think there'd be any mistaking this for like, you know, full fat, just pure indulgent. But I, I think for what this is, I mean, it's really good. Like I would eat this, I mean, to be honest, I would prefer to eat this than some like mass produced mainstream, like wannabe indulgent ice cream that I won't name brands by name, but I feel like at this point just cut a lot of corners and are kind of like that Halo top. Like, you know, it feels like you're just holding air, you know?

[Melissa Travers]

Yeah. If you eat the whole pint of halo top, I feel like you feel empty. But full pint, whereas I can imagine having a normal serving of this and be satisf your ice cream craving if you weren't looking to.

[Mike Schneider]

Actually there is a little like, like sweetener that lingers.

[Melissa Travers]

Right.

[Mike Schneider]

But I mean, again, I think this is really solid. I went straight for the triple chocolate, which, like, I mean it's, it is pretty darn indulgent.

[John Craven]

And the peanut butter tastes like quality peanut butter ice cream. And the fling ability, 10 out of 10 you saw, I mean we were like, we were like maybe six inches away from a million hits on YouTube. If I hit John right in the

[Mike Schneider]

eye, just knob of ice cream whacked

[Ray Lateef]

him right in the eyeball, that would have been pretty, pretty impressive. Great.

[Mike Schneider]

Yeah.

[Ray Lateef]

I just want to note that the calorie count, the sugar count, and some of the ingredients are different depending on the flavor. So the ch, the cookie dough, for example, also has monk fruit and stevia in it. The cookie dough has 2 grams of sugar and 260 calories per serving, as opposed to the vanilla, which only has 10, 210 calories per serving and less than 1 gram of sugar. The vanilla, once again does not have stevia or monk fruit. What's noted on these gold pints, and the gold color is similar to or almost exactly like their bars, is that this product has the most protein for the fewest calories, which has been, I,

[Mike Schneider]

I, I like the call out of the calories from protein. Like, I wish that were even bigger on that package.

[Ray Lateef]

Yeah, it's not on the front. It's on the side panel here. Great looking package. I don't know the retail price. What would you assume retail price for this is? If, if, if I had to guess, I would say it's probably $6.99.

[Melissa Travers]

Yeah, I was going to say $7.99.

[Ray Lateef]

Yeah. Well, Peter, if we're wrong on that, please Just email us at. Ask a taste rating.

[John Craven]

I see why you have a different view on. On this too, because the triple chocolate. The triple chocolate's good, but the peanut butter is like. It tastes like peanut butter ice cream. This triple chocolate, I can taste. I can taste more of the sweetener.

[Ray Lateef]

I think we're giving pretty much a thumbs up across the board, too.

[Megan Kelleher]

Thumbs up across the board.

[Melissa Travers]

Yeah. Impressive.

[Ray Lateef]

Yeah, yeah. Good stuff, David. Well done, Peter.

[John Craven]

Well, I don't want to like it, but.

[Melissa Travers]

Well, no, and here's, here's. Here's the other thing. So the original David bars I didn't like at all. So I was expecting. That was sort of my reference. But this, the. This is good.

[Ray Lateef]

Well, they've made a lot of improvements to your point, Melissa, with the flavor of the original David protein bar. I think originally it didn't have any artificial ingredients, didn't have any artificial sweeteners. And then Peter and his team said, look, we gotta make this great tasting. We've gotta make it indulgent. We've gotta make it something that people crave. And so they adjusted the ingredients in those protein bars, and I think they've applied what they've learned to these new frozen desserts, and they came out with

[Melissa Travers]

the indulgent bars as well. The ones that are almost like. Is it built bars? The marshmallowy interior.

[Ray Lateef]

Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And to your point, look, we've been saying this a thousand times on the podcast. Every founder I've ever known who has built a successful brand has said, look, taste, taste, taste, taste. You cannot have a great brand without great taste. So, like, Taste Radio, we have a great brand. How about that?

[Melissa Travers]

You know, and it tastes great.

[Ray Lateef]

And we have decent taste.

[John Craven]

I would say our taste is pretty good.

[Ray Lateef]

Yeah. Would you pour any of that matcha liqueur, John, on any of this? Would you like? I think that could be an interesting pairing with the vanilla.

[Mike Schneider]

You want a shot, Ray?

[Ray Lateef]

Perhaps I might. So the brand is called Yoshi. Y O S H I. It is a matcha liqueur and with

[Mike Schneider]

an oat milk base.

[Ray Lateef]

You've had this before? Yes, an oat milk base.

[Jason Cantelli]

Yeah.

[Mike Schneider]

I might have just drank this, you know, I don't know. Quarter of the bottle on the way down here to get ready for this nonsense. But it's.

[Jason Cantelli]

It's really good.

[Ray Lateef]

It's like instead of your usual shots of bourbon, you're drinking some mozzare.

[Mike Schneider]

No, sometimes you just need to take the edge out. No, but this stuff's really. It's really Good. I think, you know, starting with just the cleanliness of the brand with the kind of, you know, matcha green backdrop. You know, it's basically like a cream liqueur with matcha, you know, and I feel like that's sort of cool in that it's ticking a couple of different boxes and also bringing, I think, what's been a really popular Gen Z flavor in a Bev alk. Like, I have not seen a Matcha like Beval product before, so this stuff, very cool. I think it's just launching right now.

[Melissa Travers]

So the packaging is beautiful. I wonder if you can make like, if, if you can make an espresso martini, can you make a matcha? Yeah, I would. I would. I would drink that in a minute.

[John Craven]

Matcha Martini.

[Ray Lateef]

Nice. I like that. Yeah. Well, they'll be exhibiting at the upcoming Bar Convent Brooklyn event which is happening next week before BEVNET Live. So I'll be seeing the founders there next week. BEVNET Live is happening. Get your ticket. What are you waiting for? June 10th and 11th. Everyone and anyone that you want to meet in the beverage industry at Bev in that room. Yeah. Well, I'm glad they didn't call Yoshi just Matcha Drink or why not? What a cool name for liqueur would be like Matcha Matcha sauce or something like that. Because as we all know, you don't want to put the ingredient name in your brand name. This is something that Mike Bergmeyer, who's a well known investment banker in our industry, once said at beverage school and he's tried. He stressed it over and over and over. He said, don't put your ingredient name in your brand name. And I think back to 2020 when I sat down with the founders of a brand called Chia Smash for an episode of Elevator Talk, the inaugural season of our current version, anyway, of Elevator Talk. And I don't know if I asked them that. I wonder if I asked them. I'm sure you did. Are you, you know, thinking about expanding?

[Megan Kelleher]

What are you thinking?

[Ray Lateef]

Right. Because at the time, Chia Smash only marketed jams that were infused with Chia. Today the brand is known as Smash Foods. And they have a portfolio of products that are infused with Chia, including their original jams, but they also have peanut butter and jelly bites and toaster pastries as well. And Smash foods just raised $5 million in equity investment. You can read about that story on nosh.com, penned by our very own Monica Watrous. I thought the transition from Chia Smash to Smash Foods, which I think happened a couple years after we interviewed them, was obviously a brilliant move and allowed them to expand their portfolio, really spread their wings beyond just jams.

[John Craven]

Well, you don't have to explain what smash is. I mean, it's just a very powerful word. And when you say chia, most people know what chia is, but what comes after chia Pet. Pet.

[Ray Lateef]

I brought up this question, actually, with the founders of the. Since we have ice cream on the. On the table here, with the founders of a brand called Protein Pints, which is a brand of ice cream that's infused with extra protein.

[John Craven]

I thought it was a beer.

[Ray Lateef]

That you thought was a beer. Well, if you actually saw the products, you'd realize and you'd know it was ice cream.

[John Craven]

No, I've seen it had. It tastes good.

[Ray Lateef]

And I asked them, you know, why did you include the ingredient name in your brand? They said, look, first and foremost, this is what we're selling. We're selling protein. We're selling protein ice cream. This is who we are. We're not trying to shy away from that. Even if we do expand the portfolio to something else, the people. The reason that people are going to buy our products is because of the added protein and certainly the indulgence of the products, but the primary reason is protein. So in that case, I think it does make sense. Maybe just. Just put that sliver of doubt in my mind. I don't like that. Does it make sense for the long

[John Craven]

term or does it make sense for right now? Is that. Are they always just going to be, like, banking on everybody? I mean, obviously protein's really important for the human body, so.

[Melissa Travers]

But right now it's such a huge focus and it's nice that Chia Smash had the option to drop Chia and just stick with Smash. So it would be nice if Protein Pints also had that.

[John Craven]

They're not just going to be called pints in the future.

[Mike Schneider]

That'd be weird.

[Ray Lateef]

No, it would be weird. I wonder if we'll see any of these brands that we mentioned on next year's Circana New Product pacesetters report. The 2025 edition was unveiled earlier this week and I'm sure you'll know some of the brands that are part of this top 10 list, including Bloom, Red Bull, Oikos, Sparkling Ice, Topo, Chico and Kings Hawaiian. Yeah, there you go. Mike's got a can of Bloom Pop, right?

[John Craven]

I've got the rocket blast that Bloom sent us and oh, my gosh, this stuff's fantastic.

[Melissa Travers]

Yeah, I think they Got number two, right?

[Ray Lateef]

The sparkling energy. Got number two. The pop, I imagine, will be on that list next year.

[Mike Schneider]

Still kind of new.

[John Craven]

Still kind of new. Just gaining traction. Starting to see it everywhere. Super tasty stuff. Yeah, well done, Bloom.

[Ray Lateef]

Melissa, you sent me this report and noted that one of the most interesting parts of it was, was about the use of AI and how consumers are using AI to find new products.

[Melissa Travers]

Essentially, the report shows how consumers are using AI not just for discovery but for purchase as well. They said that one in three consumers uses AI to explore cpg. And it really is a big part of how consumers are and are going to be discovering new products, trying new things and, you know, know figuring out what they want to eat next. So it presents a great opportunity for brands to be early adopters, jump into it and, and figure out how to use these tools to gain awareness.

[John Craven]

It makes a lot of sense. I always use it to figure out what I'm going to look like in the next Arsenal kit.

[Ray Lateef]

I don't think that's what AI was designed for.

[Megan Kelleher]

No.

[John Craven]

It throws up every time.

[Ray Lateef]

No.

[Mike Schneider]

No content violations like stop job.

[Ray Lateef]

Mike, you should probably attend some of the.

[John Craven]

The workshops.

[Ray Lateef]

The workshops that. We have some great AI workshops at BevNet Live.

[Melissa Travers]

Yeah, we have some great AI workshops talking about how to drive efficiency, frontline growth. I'm actually co hosting one with Leisure Hydration and Co Aqua on how to use AI to help with your operations. And we also have some main stage content on AI and online retail, how to make your brand legible to AI agents. So a really great place to figure all of this and figure out where your brand fits and you can check

[John Craven]

out some of the presenters in advance and find out what they do. It's Kaizentree, Bev, Jeanie and Glimpse that are putting on these workshops. Thank you so much.

[Melissa Travers]

Yeah, thank you.

[Ray Lateef]

Thank you indeed. And thank you once again to everyone who's coming to BEVNET Live. We're, we're getting up there in terms of numbers of folks and if you want to be there, you got to get your ticket because we're going to be sold out pretty soon. John Craven, do we have a. We have. We're close to capacity.

[Mike Schneider]

We might run out of chairs.

[John Craven]

Right?

[Ray Lateef]

You might run out of chairs. Since we've been talking about protein all episode, Mike, how about some more protein? You got some scoops? What is. I got some scoops.

[John Craven]

Right, so lots of whey protein out there. Pea protein. Melissa mentioned cod protein earlier. This is peanut protein. It's called scoops. And in front of me right now, I've got the original peanut with sea salt, 27 grams of protein. Plant protein per serving. Yeah. 75% fewer calories than peanut butter. On the back, it says it's delicious with smoothies, overnight, oats, sauces, baking, and oatmeal, which is what I've been using it for. I've been using, actually, the chocolate peanut variety, and it's fantastic. It just makes your oatmeal into a treat, and it's super satiating, so. And Melissa, five grams of fiber.

[Melissa Travers]

Hey.

[John Craven]

Per serving.

[Melissa Travers]

Count me in.

[Mike Schneider]

Yeah, you need.

[John Craven]

With your protein, so, I mean, it's pretty fantastic product.

[Melissa Travers]

You know, I wonder if we're gonna see a new wave of peanut consumers now that kids are being introduced to peanuts earlier on and that peanut allergies, you know, hopefully won't be as much of a thing with the kids who are growing up now and will be, you know, adults in basically no time.

[John Craven]

You can grow out of the allergy, too. We saw that with Jake Carls from Midday Squares, who was unable to eat his peanut variety and then got tested and made a big, big thing out of it. And now we can. So that. That's pretty great. Hopeful for, you know, others in our office who have some nut allergies, too.

[Mike Schneider]

Peanut butter is good.

[John Craven]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Schneider]

Peanut butter. I'll say.

[John Craven]

It's so good.

[Mike Schneider]

It's interesting that we have, you know, the David product here and also this. And I think peanut butter goes really well with protein products.

[Melissa Travers]

It does, so.

[John Craven]

It sure does.

[Mike Schneider]

I mean, I just feel like it's a. A nice. I don't know. I was going to say maybe it masks the protein flavor, but I don't know if that's the right way to

[John Craven]

say it, but it's why the peanut tasted so different. And, you know, just. I felt like that was like ice cream and. And it has its own, you know, sweetness to it, too. The peanuts.

[Melissa Travers]

I use the powdered peanut butter in smoothies and making ninja creamies and that kind of thing. It's something you can extract the fat from, but you still get some good flavor and good. Good consistency.

[Mike Schneider]

Noted.

[John Craven]

Oh, all we need in here is superfoodio.

[Ray Lateef]

Melissa's got some crackers by her side. What are these?

[Melissa Travers]

So I have top seeds here. I picked these up at Whole Foods. They were doing a passive demo in the cheese department. Which just goes to show you, again, there are so many options for sampling and for demos. I feel like nowadays you go into stores and you don't see nearly the Number of demos that you used to pre pandemic. So anytime you can take advantage of a sampling opportunity, do it because it sells product. But this product here is Top Seeds. It's a six seed cracker. And I just thought these were so tasty. They are sunflower, sesame, flax, pumpkin, chia and hemp seeds. And there's something about the way that they toasted the seeds in these that to me, made them kind of, you know, far above the flavor that you might expect from like a Mary's crackers,

[John Craven]

though on the packaging, because it's transparent. You saw those crackers and you were like, I gotta try that.

[Melissa Travers]

Yeah, yeah. It's like, it's this black and white packaging. It really jumps out at you and it's just such a.

[John Craven]

But it's not the packaging. It's. The product jumps right, right out at you. It's in like this transparent plastic.

[Mike Schneider]

I mean, if you like seeded crackers, like, I mean, you can see in there that there's like actual real quality ingredients. And those are super tasty.

[John Craven]

Yeah, they got you. Those are super tasty.

[Ray Lateef]

And the brand name is spelled T, O, P, S, E E, D, Z. Top Seeds with a Z.

[John Craven]

It's all about the Z. All about the Z for zing.

[Ray Lateef]

John Craven, is that underwear next to you?

[Mike Schneider]

Yes, Ray. I actually brought your underwear back.

[John Craven]

End of show.

[Mike Schneider]

For some reason. Reason it ended up in my office. But no, what we're talking about here is this Duluth trading buck naked underwear with Old Milwaukee branding on it.

[Ray Lateef]

Yes, it's a. It's a collab between the two companies.

[Mike Schneider]

No idea. But we got a whole pile. I mean, you can explain why we got a whole pile of Old Milwaukee branded Duluth Trading merch this week, right?

[Ray Lateef]

Yeah. So Old Milwaukee partnered with Duluth Trading Co. On a whole bunch of new. Call it clothing and merch. They sent us a cap and apron. They sent us gear for the beach where you can keep your cans of beer cold. And they sent us some underwear as well.

[Melissa Travers]

You know that underwear it's made out of, it looks like one of those highly absorbent dish towels. I wonder if that would also function as maybe like a diaper if you needed it.

[Ray Lateef]

Perhaps. But that's the, that's the secret with Duluth creating company. Ever seen those commercials where they talk about their underwear? And as they pointed out on the back of this package, no pinch, no stink, and no sweat, which is exactly what you want when you're on the beach and. And drinking beer, pounding Old Milwaukee. Yeah. No, I. I love this collab. Honestly, because it definitely feels like both brands are kind of old school. Definitely in line with consumer expectations for, you know, their personality and positioning. So that, I mean, I love collabs like this. That actually makes sense.

[John Craven]

And now we know what underwear Ray will be wearing during the new beverage showdown.

[Ray Lateef]

No, I might actually go buck naked instead of wearing a buck naked underwear.

[John Craven]

You mentioned earlier that I was representing the champions Arsenal Football Club and I want to talk about some other champions. The new beverage showdown Champions uso who sent us their latest skew chamomile, a

[Ray Lateef]

brand of spark non alcoholic sparkling tea. Ooso. Their positioning is very much that of a refreshment beverage meets a non alcoholic wine. And it is really delicious stuff. Born in Brooklyn, based in Brooklyn. They're a great company and they have

[John Craven]

the interesting ingredient of the week, Melissa,

[Melissa Travers]

which is fermented chamomile. Man, this is so good. It's room temperature. It's. It's so good. Room temperature. What a tasty product.

[John Craven]

Their products are fantastic and this one is instantly became my favorite. And, and the more that I've had, they generously sent us a case of this stuff. So I've, I've had a few at this point and it is fantastic.

[Mike Schneider]

I love the little note of salt at the end.

[Melissa Travers]

Yeah, really good. Yeah. And the yuzu juice is really nice. It's refreshing, bright.

[John Craven]

Great stuff from the Champions. Thank you so much.

[Melissa Travers]

Well done.

[Ray Lateef]

Yeah. Great stuff from our new beverage showdown, Champions of New York City 2025. And congratulations again to Arsenal, winners of the Premier League, Runners up at the Champions League. But hey, you can't ever. I didn't think I could love USO

[John Craven]

anymore, but this just made me projo.

[Ray Lateef]

Winner of the 2025 New Beverage Showdown, is launching their Power Coffee RTDS into every target nationwide this August. Experience powerful energy and great taste with 25 grams of protein and 225 milligrams of caffeine.

[Mark Sagan]

Visit idrinkprojoe.com to learn more.

[Ray Lateef]

All right, it's time to get to our featured interviews for this episode. At Taste Radio's Austin meetup in May, executives from nutribolt, Bloom, Goodbelly, and Corner Market Communications shared practical insights on what drives growth in today's food and beverage industry. Nutribull's Jason Cantelli discussed scaling multiple brands while staying relentlessly focused on consumers. While Bloom's Erica Tam explained how community building, influencer marketing and retail execution have fueled the brand's rapid rise. Corner Market Communications founder Megan Kelleher outlined how modern PR can drive tangible business results. And Next Food CEO Mark Sagan reflected on revitalizing Good Belly, building a strong culture and thinking like an owner at every stage of growth. Now to talk to you guys about nutribullt and how they turned this scrappy startup into a billion dollar beverage powerhouse is the incredible Jason Cantelli, who's the Chief commercial officer of Nutribolt. What Nutribolt has done here has just blown my mind. Between C4 and Bloom, both brands are growing at an incredible pace. But how do you prioritize investment across two distinct beverage brands and really do it without losing focus?

[Jason Cantelli]

Maybe I start at the end of that one. When you talk about focus and the two brands, I ladder back to, you know, when I came to nutribulld and spending time with our founder Dawson Cunningham and when he talked about aspiration for nutribulld as an organization and what he aspired to accomplish in a P and G like mentality. Within wellness and the model of which we've been building, we hope that it isn't just two brands, right? That it can be more in the future. And this is a model of which through ruthless understanding and prioritization of our consumer, we can continue to fuel. So look within the two brands right now, it does begin with the consumer, right? It's, it's, where is that consumer? How do we reach them in their moment of need and then through our investments. It's really carefully understanding how those will play in each individual brand but also into the ladder of the umbrella of nutribull that allows us to build upon what we are today.

[Ray Lateef]

Let's talk about Bloom for a second because as I mentioned to you, it seems like Blooom is a brand that belongs to a generation in particular Gen Alpha. I have gone to Target. I don't know how many times I see kids picking up a Bloom pop, really embracing that brand as their own. And Bloom, you know, it really started out with a really powerful digital and influencer driven strategy. C4 has deep roots in retail. So what have you learned about translating online buzz into sustained in store velocity?

[Jason Cantelli]

I love at the heart of that question too, it's the recognition for nutribullt to see a strength in another product, a brand, the people in that brand and want to bring that into our world. So the amazing brand build and the online community that was Bloom, we recognized a special talent within not only the founders and Greg and Mari, but the entire team. And it was that opportunity then to bring that into nutribull and leverage our strengths to be where we are today. But really we think we're just at the beginning of what that is. Right. You know last week in Mulo plus for the energy side of the portfolio did a 2.5 share in only 16 months with PUP and you know, within less than a year to be able to achieve double digit share within the better for you soda space. We really feel like we're leveraging that retail expertise in partnership with the marketing components of which Bloom has built that then how do we continue to bring that to life holistically across all nature Bolt brands what they are today in the future.

[Ray Lateef]

And we're going to be talking about the brand and marketing strategy of Bloom with Erica Tam momentarily. She's right over there taking some fantastic video. Just get my good side please. Energy and wellness very competitive right now. Intensely competitive. But where are you getting the most return on spend right now and where are you becoming more disciplined between the two?

[Jason Cantelli]

I feel like if our CMO is somewhere, that's a question whether we're like don't answer. Don't give the secret side.

[Ray Lateef]

I see someone pointing at them right over there. There you go.

[Jason Cantelli]

Like I think yes, we look to our guts and our experiences but we're very diligent with our marketing mix analysis and constantly through ruthless prioritization looking at our investments by product or portfolio and understanding the TAM and the consumer opportunity within each, measuring those returns and not only considering it a byproduct but those individual investments by product and again what they do for the entire portfolio, both fueling velocity and or household penetration that's going to allow us not only to support today but the next steps that we want to take.

[Ray Lateef]

We have a lot of founders in the audience right now and I'm so happy to see all of you because you are changing. There you go. You are changing the face of food and beverage as we speak. Resources are important for sure. I mean nutribullt has quite a bit of resources. But I'm assuming you do think like an entrepreneur. You have to think like an early stage founder and be nimble as often as some of these folks do as well. What's one piece of advice that you would have for them in terms of how to remain nimble with resources or without?

[Jason Cantelli]

I mean it's interesting as you say, we have a lot of resources. We do. But I would hope that our organization continually to think lean and scrappy. Right. That we're always saying, geez, I wish I just had a little bit more because Then if we're doing that, we're challenging ourselves to invest in a very responsible fashion. So I would challenge all founders and small business owners. How can you just wear many hats, Find another scrappy way to do it. Not lean on the luxuries of investment and over investing in certain resources.

[Ray Lateef]

At one time, C4 was not known for energy. At one point, Bloom was not really known for beverages. And look where the brands are right now. I think hard work is the plan. Hustle and a thoughtful strategy go a long way.

[Megan Kelleher]

Yeah.

[Jason Cantelli]

And all that ladders back to the consumer.

[Mark Sagan]

Right.

[Jason Cantelli]

Understanding your consumer and what they are going to be interested for your brand next, what need that might meet and how you're positioning yourself to be able to deliver that product to them.

[Ray Lateef]

Jason, I really can't thank you enough for joining me today. Thank you so much. Thanks for sharing and opening up your home to us. Really appreciate the time. Thank you.

[Jason Cantelli]

Thanks. Thanks, team.

[Ray Lateef]

All right, that was Jason Cantelli. I'll take your microphone. Oh, right on. Brand sipping the C4. Love it. Love to see it. All right, I want to bring up now one of the most special people in the food and beverage industry. She has been a friend for a long time and she is someone you should definitely get to know and meet. Her name is Megan Kelleher. She is the founder and CEO of Corner Market Communications. How are you?

[Megan Kelleher]

I'm so good.

[Ray Lateef]

What is Corner Market Communications?

[Megan Kelleher]

Corner Market Communications is a marketing agency just exclusively for CPG food and beverage. We have grown up with the industry over the last nine years and we do everything related to storytelling. So traditional pr, influencer events. We even shot our own commercials last year for clients. So we've taken storytelling to a different level.

[Ray Lateef]

So I got to tell you, you know, PR is one of the most overlooked parts of this industry and I feel like it's changed so dramatically over the years. Modern PR is not your dad's pr, and a lot of people still think that way. But you've got to keep up with changing times and changing trends. I wonder in your eyes, what does modern PR look like? And, you know, how should founders rethink the role of PR when they are growing their businesses?

[Megan Kelleher]

Yeah. I think the interesting thing is, is that if you've been in the industry, it's always been ever changing. When I started 20 years ago, mom blogs had just come out on the like the network and everybody wanted to build their own networks of mom blogs. And now that's influencer. And now that's substacks for modern pr. I think it's no longer the platinum chip publications like, yes, the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal. They really do matter. But it's really. Yes. But what I was going to say is, is that being able to tell the story in the right channel to the right audience for the right goal, I think that's the pivotal moment for PR these days, is that sometimes telling it in a substack is the way to reach the right consumer for us. I can say this because I've worked with you for years, is that putting our founders onto taste Radio usually gives a byproduct of a retailer call or a partnership call. It actually has a really good byproduct result. And so it's not about the spray and pray that everybody talks about in pr. It's what channel is actually going to complete the goal you're looking for. And being very, very specific in the goal that you're trying to accomplish. Because without that, you're just going to hit open funnels and not know exactly what you're looking for.

[Ray Lateef]

You know, there's communication within communication. And I think a lot of folks who are starting out say, well, I'm going to hire a PR company and it's just very much a transactional service. But how do you build an effective relationship with your PR team? How do you build a relationship that really yields the results that you want to see out of your strategy?

[Megan Kelleher]

I think one of the best things that you can do is really form a partnership. At the end of the day, it's about being partners in the business. Invite them to the table, explain the goals, explain the challenges. Don't let the PR be in a funnel where you hand them something that you want them to do. Let them weigh in. They're strategists that know the world. They execute it in a daily basis. They're going to come with a perspective that you hired them for. So make sure that you're actually listening to it and you invite them to the table. One of the best examples I've had in my career. You just had him on this week is Mike Messersmith, who came from Oatley and is now at Lasso. I was brought in as employee number seven, as a consultant, and they treated me as a full time teammate. And so I was well aware of Oatley's strategy when they were in coffee shops and where they were trying to go. Saw them all the way through their ipo. But that's been our partnership at the end of the day. And it was because we knew we could give and take and we both deeply cared about the business. I think a lot of the time it's treated as transactional. But I deeply care about the brands I work with. I want them to succeed and thrive. So invite me to the table, invite my team to the table. We'll bring you the best thinking we can and then we can work against the goal you're actually looking to achieve.

[Ray Lateef]

You said a lot there and I think I want to dive a little bit deeper if I can. If we talk about inviting people in, making people feel like they're part of the team, making people feel like they're part of the family, let's talk about some very practical things. What are say three practical things that a founder can do to enhance the relationship with their PR companies such that they are telling a better story to the end consumer.

[Megan Kelleher]

In the beginning days we do a five day Runway. That's really a part of our model. Sit down and give the insight into the business. Tell us what's actually keeping you up at night. Have that one to one relationship with us where you can be honest and transparent about what you're trying to accomplish, what you're struggling with. A lot of the time we just get handed brand awareness. You want to see brand awareness or we need retail, but it's what retail, why do you need it? What are you looking for? And so it's not a vague question of what we think we want to hear. It's really getting down to your bottom line business goals and talk to us about those. And then let's do communication, let's check in, let's have regular comms. What I do see a lot in founder led businesses is that you have a million priorities. Pr, if you're going to invest in it, you have to be an equal partner, you have to be available, you have to be able to support it and treat it as the priority that we're treating it as will always work within schedules. But at the end of the day you want to make sure that there is a level of transparency of hey, we're all chasing this goal together, we're in it with you and that makes you feel like an extension of the team. And the best PR agencies and best PR teams you'll ever see are the ones that feel like they're a part of the brand and that is a mutual relationship. The founders and the teams, they have to lean in, in the transparency and be in it with you. The PR teams need to come back at the same token and be honest about what's going on. Hey, this didn't work. Let's pivot. I have some amazing teammates in the back of the room, and one of our big things is that they're on every single call. They're not floating in the background. I'm still on those calls as well, but Annabelle leads all of our calls with all of our teams, and she keeps everybody on track. Grace is our creative gal, and she works her tail off to make sure that every trend that's right for for them is put in front of them. We're extra eyes, but because we know what the goals of the brand are, we can bring those things to them. If they didn't tell me, we would be falling on deaf ears and bringing incorrect recommendations.

[Ray Lateef]

And the proof is in the pudding. If you're part of the team, you're part of the team that helped sell less or evil to Hershey for six.

[Megan Kelleher]

Was it 650 million 750, 758?

[Ray Lateef]

What's $100 million? You know, whatever. Yeah, so no, but I mean, you're a big part of that.

[Erica Tam]

Thank you.

[Ray Lateef]

For lesser evil. And they have some samples on the table to go from where they were to where they are now. It's you guys. It's. You guys are a big part of that. So congratulations on that. Like I said, if you haven't had a chance to talk to the corner market communications folks, they've got an incredible table back there. Obviously, Megan was singing the praises of her co. Of her. I almost called them co founders. They feel like co founders.

[Megan Kelleher]

They feel like it to me. So it's okay. You can take that title today, have

[Ray Lateef]

a conversation with them. They are incredible people. They're very well spoken people, as you can see. So I would highly recommend you have that conversation. Megan, thank you so much again for everything you do. I really, really appreciate it.

[Megan Kelleher]

Thank you. This is an honor.

[Ray Lateef]

Honestly, the honor is mine. Really appreciate it. Thank you again. Up next, Mark Sagan. Where's Mark? He's there. He is gone up. Mark Sagan is the CEO of Next Foods. How you doing? Good.

[Mark Sagan]

How are you?

[Ray Lateef]

I'm doing fantastic. Good to see you. Mark is the CEO of Next Foods, which is a marketer of two incredible brands, Goodbelly and Cherubundi. And we're here today to talk a little bit about Goodbelly. What is Goodbelly?

[Mark Sagan]

Goodbelly is a probiotic beverage. It started almost 20 years ago and really was one of the innovators in probiotic beverage in the juice space. So they've been around for quite a while. And we now sell in the dairy department. We sell performance shots as well. So we have three or four different ways that we bring basically probiotic beverage to consumers.

[Ray Lateef]

Gut health, it's pretty popular these days. You guys were one of the forerunners, Good belly, that is, of probiotic beverages. And it feels like if you're in that space today, you're probably doing something right. But how do you go from being a legacy pioneering brand in that space to maintaining the level of communication and expectations that people have for probiotic beverages?

[Mark Sagan]

That's a great question, and I was hoping I might get the answer here. Talking to some people today, it's definitely hard to, you know, keep a legacy brand relevant. I think the mistake that a lot of brands make is they confuse their brand with their product. So in the early days, we had a really interesting product that was actually pretty breakthrough. And our opportunity was to build a relationship between the brand and consumers. And what we didn't realize is the product became a little bit old. It wasn't how people were looking for probiotics. They could get it in a million different ways in a million different formats. And we sort of stayed the same. So it got stale, to be honest. And I think what we've realized it really in the last couple of years is that we could reinvent ourselves, lean on the heritage that we do have as a brand. People do know Goodbelly as a great brand that speaks really to the benefit very clearly in a way that most brands don't have the luxury of doing. And so we reinvented the way we talk to consumers on the package, redid all of our packaging, really re engaged with social media and started to have conversations with consumers one to one, in a way that was new for the brand. And then we looked for new formats. We launched Shots, which sells in the functional beverage set. We also have launched a protein product that brings a new angle, lets us really compete directly with kefir. So if you're looking for a non dairy kefir alternative that gives you all of the protein, all the probiotics and sort of that beverage breakfast consumption moment, it's right down the middle for that. So I think it's finding the right things. But understanding that one win as a product does not define a brand. You have to really cherish that consumer relationship and build it over time.

[Ray Lateef]

And you have to make sure the consumer knows what you're selling. I mean, that's one of the biggest parts too. Everyone here knows that you should have good gut health Right. I mean, raise your hand if you think and try to incorporate good gut health into your life. Right. But why do we know why? I think that's a big part of your new product line, the wellness shots. You're trying to really focus on the functional benefit and communicate very clearly what that benefit is. How do you do it effectively again and how do you do it with the consideration of where you were and where you are today?

[Mark Sagan]

Yeah. So, I mean, I think the science on the gut brain connection is really new since we even started with probiotics. I think in its early inception, Goodbelly was thinking about gut health in terms of really digestion. Right. But I think what's emerged over the last 20 years is there's this great connectivity to the way your brain processes. If your gut is healthy, it drives everything. So it's kind of a scientific conversation you have to have, which is hard to do in simple terms. But I think where we're finding success is looking for influencers who speak to a lot of folks that can speak with authority. We're investing a great deal in our science so that we can work with really thought leaders in this space. I'm going to a conference next week, which is the aspda, but it is the dietitians for professional sports teams. It's actually a small group of people, but they put the products in the hands of every major athlete in the country. We sell our products, Cherry, Bundy and Goodbelly, to pretty much every D1 school in the country now directly because we focused on the dietitians and we built relationships with them so that they know that our products are effective. And we provide them with the science behind that that allows them to be certain that if they're going to get an athlete, top tier athlete, to consume something, they want to make sure that it drives performance.

[Ray Lateef]

Now, Goodbelly is 20 years old, but as I asked Jason earlier, Even if you're 20 years old, you want to think like an entrepreneur. You want to have an entrepreneurial mindset. You want to be efficient with your money. You want to focus on things that are going to get a return in the most efficient way. What are some ways that Goodbelly thinks like an early stage founder, thinks like an entrepreneur?

[Mark Sagan]

Legacy companies can get into some bad habits, some bad routines. They think things are working that aren't working. And I had to really appeal that back for the team that I have, and I have a brilliant small team, but really get them to understand that they not just think like owners, but they had to Understand what an owner would bring. And in my experience, every founder, every good owner, very quickly has an owner math. If I sell one case of this, I can spend 10 cents on this, 30 cents on that, 40 cents on that, and that simple owner math. Like if you sell a dollar, what's left? Every single one of my team members can tell you what that is for every one of our products. And so when they're thinking about what they're investing in, they know that if it creates an extra dollar of revenue, there's going to be something left after that investment. And just really making sure that your team is so acutely focused on the basic financials of your business and trained up, because if every one of them think like an owner, you're not going to make a lot of mistakes.

[Ray Lateef]

Yeah, I love that level of transparency. If everybody knows what it costs to get to a place where you're taking good belly to the next level, if everyone knows if we get to a place where we're spending less or where we're communicating more effectively or we're selling in a new retailer, if we just take that added step as a team together, we win as a team together. But I want to talk about exactly how you do it. And if you talk about, you know, everyone here has heard, oh, well, you've got to execute well, you got to have the right product mix, you got to innovate correctly, you got to market correctly. But if there's one thing that really stands out, and you've been doing this for a long time time, what is the most important thing that founders and anybody in this business needs to get right, otherwise they have no chance of success?

[Mark Sagan]

Well, it took me a long time to figure out that you could have a great idea and I focused on those and you could have really good financials and you could focus on those, but you had to have. Culture is everything. It unlocks innovation, it unlocks team efficiency. So I focus almost all of my time now on culture. And we're really trying to do something that is an entirely team driven approach. What I found when I've been a part of a lot of founder organizations in the past, founders are extraordinarily good at seeing the future that doesn't exist today. And that creates innovation, as you said earlier. But very often they don't see who's going to be in the future with them, they see themselves in the future. And there's a spot for them on the podium, but is there a spot for the people around them? And I think what they need to do is figure out how to bring those people and have them see that vision the way that they do. Because if they can, it can really change the way your team taps into the motivation for the company. Because founders are perpetual engines. They bring so much interesting energy to companies. But most places I've been, people are waiting to see what the founder is going to say about everything. And so if you can get them to think like that and bring them along so that they see the vision that the founder sees, I think you have a real chance to win.

[Ray Lateef]

I wasn't expecting that answer, but that's a fantastic answer.

[Mark Sagan]

Our motto for every new person coming in is that we want this to be the best job you've ever had and the job you measure everything else against. And that's not really lip service. We want to build what makes you special into the place. Your quirkiness, your funny jokes, your things. We want all that to come together in an interesting mosaic that build something really special. And I'm sure you have those people in your company too.

[Ray Lateef]

We have a few jokesters.

[Mark Sagan]

So I think you want to bring that reality and that authenticity is something people say all the time. But I think if the team owns authenticity and they're like, what's important to the team is how they interact with each other. They know how they're supposed to operate. They got to think like owners, and they got to be curious. Those things for sure. And we only sell products that we would use ourselves, but the team part in the middle is the part that usually gets lost, and that's where that culture lives, if you can get that right. I think it's an incredible unlock, and I'm really looking forward to what happens here at Next Foods because I think it's going to be something really special.

[Ray Lateef]

I think you're already doing something really special, and I'm so glad that you took the time to be with us today. Mark, thank you so much. Really appreciate the time. Finally, we have the incredible Erica Tam, who is the SVP of brand for Bloom. How's it going?

[Erica Tam]

It's going. Thank you so much for having me.

[Ray Lateef]

Thanks so much for joining us on brand with the T shirt and the Bloom pop. Fantastic.

[Erica Tam]

Of course.

[Ray Lateef]

Well, it's kind of your job, right?

[Erica Tam]

It absolutely is. Gotta rep the brand.

[Ray Lateef]

Exactly. Exactly. Blooom is one of the most incredible brands that I can remember seeing in my 15 years at BevNet. Just the level of love that people have for Bloom, the use that they have for the brand in all aspects of their day. It's just really been incredible to see. And again, you're a big part of that as well. I mentioned to Jason that Bloom really started out as an influencer and digital LED brand. But how do you translate products that you see online into something that consumers stick with rather than just try once? And as we know, if you're on Instagram, you might see an ad for something and you'll be like, I'll give it a shot. But then you never really touch it again.

[Erica Tam]

I think it's a couple of things. And first of all, thank you for all the kind words about Bloom. It's been an incredible brand to build. And I know you've seen a lot of great brands in your career, too.

[Ray Lateef]

I've seen a few.

[Erica Tam]

Means a lot. I would say the first thing is to make sure you have a really good product. So when I say a good product, that means having a product that, whether it tastes really good or is really efficacious, something that people genuinely like. Because if you don't have a good product, no matter how much marketing you do and how much you put into the world, people will try it and they won't come back to it. It doesn't matter how great your brand is. So, number one, make sure to get that down. And there's a lot of steps to making a really good product. I would say that's the first thing. Number two is make sure you have a story around the brand, because every hero needs to have a story around it. If you don't put a story around it, you have no hero. So that means create a great brand. Create a design that resonates with your consumer. Create something that people really gravitate towards and have a connection to. Otherwise, the next time a product comes in that looks like your product or tastes like your product, your product's gone and so is your brand. So I would say number two is make sure you have a very good story. And then finally making sure you have a really great campaign. And by a campaign, you can have a lot of influencers talk about it. But I would say depending on what your product is, either maybe there's a lot of education that needs to be done for your product. So you really need to make sure to get that out in your messaging. Or it is about showing up in real life and having activations. I think the best way to really get people to convert and come back is to make sure you have the entire 360 working for you. You have a great brand, you have great messaging, you talk about IT online, you're able to taste and be an IRL and also to build a community around it who will really rally behind your product and brand.

[Ray Lateef]

As I mentioned, you have a can of Bloom Pop in your hand. I feel like I've mentioned this before. Bloom Pop feels like that soda brand for the next generation. I see Gen Alpha kids drinking it all the time. You go into a Target, there's all these 10, 12, 13, 14 year olds that are all drinking Bloom Pop and it's a relatively new product. When did Bloom Pop launch again?

[Erica Tam]

About six to seven months ago.

[Ray Lateef]

Six to seven months ago. So when you think about a new product from a marketing perspective, what signals that that product will matter to consumers? How do you pressure test those signals before and after launch?

[Erica Tam]

There are a couple things I would say. Number one, do your homework about the product you're about to launch. And Jason Cantelli talked a little bit about this. Like, make sure you do your marketing analysis. You do your homework, you check the tam, like, is there a viable audience for this product? That would be number one. And then number two, when you're building it, if you decide, okay, let's go forward with this. As you're building it, is your internal team excited about what you're building? At Bloom, we're really fortunate to have a lot of our team. They're actually our consumers too. Like, they really emulate who our audience is. And as we're building it, you know, like whether or not they're excited about it, like, are they excited about the design, the storytelling, the product, to get it out into the world and to really shout it from the rooftop? If they are, that's another checkpoint. And then number three, I would say pressure test it with your community. There's a lot of things you can do to really understand whether or not your community will like it. So whether that's serving your community, talking to them in real life. So if it's a new flavor, for example, you can ask them what flavors they're looking for. It's very easy. At Bloom, we've built a really big community. We have about 1.5 million followers across our social channels. We have a huge community in different markets who will show up and line up around the door in our activations. But there's an opportunity to have a two way dialogue. You can ask them about flavors or if it's a new product, do they want it? Okay, yes, they want it. What do you want in this product? Like, what do you not already have? And you build something that they really Love. And then finally, we've also had the opportunity to create some really great activations where we can actually sample unreleased flavors and get their opinions. We did this last year at our. We had a treat shop activation in New York, and it was like a line around the door. There are thousands of consumers who really wanted to be there and interactivation. There was a lot of things you could do there. It was about bringing wellness into these really delicious treats. But one of the activations we had within there was a flavor lab. And we had all of these amazing flavors that we created with nutribullt's partnership. And it was in the vault. And we brought out six different flavors. We had all these consumers rank them. They were so excited to be in with the brand, to be with kind of like you're like in the kitchen and they're behind the scenes and weighing in and ranking them. We took the number one ranking flavor and we brought it to life. It was our strawberry rose Valentine's Day limited edition skew that sold out within, I think, 72 hours. It was amazing, but it was the perfect timing where we're like, okay, let's do something for Valentine's Day. We know the girlies love it. Oh, perfect. We have a strawberry rose that ranked number one. And there it went into the world.

[Ray Lateef]

You mentioned. Check the tam. You should trademark that. I feel like it'd be appropriate for you. Yes, yes. Well done. You do have a really big digital presence. You have a lot of awareness. But what's currently effective for converting that real world, Converting real world trials and repetition, especially at retail, where you build brands at retail, I mean, if that is, you know, I think a lot of people think modern commerce and modern business happens outside the store, but it really. Brands are built on shelf at the retail level.

[Erica Tam]

Yes, definitely. I would say it is the entire 360. And making sure that you've dialed all of that in front to end, but really making sure you, if you can have a really good store presence. That kind of starts with the relationship of the buyer, what you pitch. If you're going to put out a product, make sure it's either seasonally relevant or it's something the retailer would really want to carry on shelf at that time. I think there's nothing more powerful than to have something that's really foot style stopping. And as you walk by, you see something. When we launched Bloom Pop, we were very fortunate to have secured a display nationwide at Walmart, and it was a massive palette. So when you're in the Walmart you can't help but see it. It was also launched right next to our energy drink that already had an audience. So if you're going to find energy drink, you saw Bloom pop, but I would say make sure you have the retail presence and also utilize your retail presence. Whether you're on shelf or you're on an end cap, you're on a pallet. Utilize your retail presence as your content studio. Send your team in there, create content, yell it through the rooftop, and then send creators in there too. We send our creators and our community into the store and it really helps get the word out. And we've pretty much created a content machine. I would say every time we launch a new product, we have a really massive community that will run into store and talk about like, oh my God, did Bloom just launch a new Shirley Temple and didn't talk about it? We actually deliberately will not talk about a product three weeks into when it's already rolled out in stores. And we let our community find it and they create all this buzz because who doesn't love a great treasure hunt? They'll find it, they'll create content, they'll talk about it, and then it just trickles all the way through.

[Ray Lateef]

I love that because my next question, my final question was going to be about cost effective ways of marketing. And if you don't market, if you don't advertise, but you still generate buzz, that seems like a really useful way to not spend money. And I feel like, you know, if there are other cost effective ways of marketing and in ways that founders can utilize their resources most effectively without spending a lot of money, without breaking the bank, what would you say those things are?

[Erica Tam]

Content would be number one, you know, as I think as, especially as like a new founder, if you're creating a product, people love to be in with the brand and to follow your journey and to cheer you on. So if you're creating a product, whether you're at the manufacturer, if you're in the kitchen, if you're sampling, if you're designing, like capture all that and put that out, because that's free.

[Megan Kelleher]

I mean, you do need to have

[Erica Tam]

someone to create that, but generally that doesn't cost that much money. So put that out there too. And you don't know who will share it. And the other is to really prioritize your community. Show up at some events, there's a lot of local events that are very kind to new founders and new brands. And it's not either it's no fee to play or It's a very small fee, but I would get it out there. It's not just about sampling, but it's really about getting people to talk about it and to share it. So I would start there for sure. And then I would also say influencer, of course. Like, you know, there's obviously influencers that cost a lot of money, but there's also a lot of people who are smaller creators and just want to get free things and talk about things that they love. And they're building their business too. And if you gift them, you would be surprised at how many people will really share the love on your products.

[Ray Lateef]

Can we get you to come to Bevnet Live and speak for like another 30 minutes? Cause I feel like this is we're out of time and we need a lot more time with you.

[Erica Tam]

Erica, I would be honored.

[Ray Lateef]

I would be honored as well. Erica Tam, thank you so much for joining us today. Really, really appreciate it. That brings us to the end of this episode of Taste Radio. Thank you so much for listening. Taste Radio is a production of BevNet.com Inc. Our audio engineer for Taste Radio is Joe Kratchi. Our technical director is Joshua Pratt, and our video editor is Ryan Gallang. Our social marketing manager is Amanda Smerlinsky, and our designer is Amanda Huang. Just a reminder, if you like what you hear on Taste Radio, please share the podcast with friends and colleagues. And of course, we would love it if you could review us on the Apple podcast app or your listening platform of choice. Check us out on Instagram. Our handle is Bevnett Taste Radio. As always, for questions, comments, ideas for future podcasts, please send us an email to askaseteradio.com on behalf of the entire Taste Radio team, thank you for listening and we'll talk to you next time. That.