317. Crush Break-Even: Pricing and Occupancy Hacks for your STR with Avery Carl

Summary

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Tax Smart Real Estate Investors Podcast

Episode 317: Crush Break-Even: Pricing and Occupancy Hacks for Your STR with Avery Carl

Date: March 18, 2025
Host: Hall CPA
Guest: Avery Carl (Founder, The Short Term Shop; Author, Smarter Short Term Rentals)

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Hall CPA sits down with Avery Carl, a short-term rental (STR) investing expert, agent, and bestselling author. The conversation covers acquisition tips for newcomers in 2025, strategies to optimize STR profitability, the impact of current interest rates, effective self-management, amenity myths, and insights from Avery’s new book. Avery dispels common misconceptions, offering actionable advice for both rookie and seasoned STR operators.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Avery's Background in STR Investing

• Avery Carl has built a portfolio starting with eight vacation rentals, now holding about 250+ diverse units.
• She leads The Short Term Shop (65 agents in 20 markets), helping 5,000+ clients buy and manage STRs without traditional property managers. (02:02)

Top Acquisition Tips for New STR Investors (2025)

• Market Familiarity is Key:
  “Buy in the place that you have a competitive advantage... If you are or have been your target guest, that’s the best intel you could ever have.” — Avery Carl [03:19]
• Avoid Chasing Cheap Properties:
  Don’t buy solely on price. Choose property types guests want (e.g., cabins in mountain markets)—guest appeal drives occupancy and income, not just bedroom count or price. (04:19)

Cash Flow vs. Appreciation

• Blend Both in Your Analysis:
  Cash flow is crucial, but neglecting appreciation can backfire if external factors force a sale. “I used to say cash flow only; appreciation is garbage. But it really would have been nice if... there would have been a little appreciation.” — Avery Carl [06:30]

Financing and Interest Rates in 2025

• Loan Types Trending:
  • DSCR (Debt-Service Coverage Ratio) loans are still used but have high rates.
  • Many opt for 10% down “vacation home” loans (with required personal use) or 15% down conventional investment loans, often in a personal name due to lower rates. (07:12)
• Market Slowdown: “We've been in the crash for two years, guys... Fewer homes were sold in those past two years than in the last 30 years.” — Avery Carl [08:11]
• High rates have stalled sales and acquisitions; any drop toward 6% may renew activity.

Recovery Outlook and Political Influence

• Recent administration has enacted more measures for housing than prior years, but real change depends on interest rate movement and macroeconomics.
  “The fact that somebody is in there trying to move things around I think will eventually [have an effect]… I’ll be interested to see.” — Avery Carl [12:17]

Optimizing and Operating a Profitable STR

• Dynamic Pricing & Breaking Even:
  Many hosts cling to a hard “break-even” nightly rate. Avery advises flexibility:
  “Your break even number is an average. In the high season, you’re going to get much higher... in the low, you’ll have to drop below. Otherwise, your place sits empty for $0.” — Avery Carl [13:57]
• Temporarily lowering prices can “wake up the algorithm” and boost bookings.
• Reviews & Occupancy:
  “Photos are like top”—guests choose with their eyes, so invest in pro photography. (23:30)

Amenities and Design—Mythbusting the "Go Big" Narrative

• Contrarian Take:
  Lavish amenities (pools, pickleball, murals) only pay off in select markets (e.g., Orlando); extras can shrink your buyer pool and rarely add resale value. “You have to be sure you are going to hold this property for at least 10 years. Murals don’t add value to a house… If you have to sell, you're not getting that [investment] back.” — Avery Carl [16:17]
• Instead, follow the “Three C’s”:
  “Cute, clean, comfortable has been enough for ours.” — Avery Carl [20:53] Update outmoded elements, keep it spotless, and focus on universal guest comfort.

Unit Mix and Consistency

• Studios and one-bedrooms can be top performers in vacation markets (not urban hotel areas).
  “Just because a property is a one-bedroom doesn't mean it can't be luxury or nice... Studios and one bedrooms consistently stay booked.” — Avery Carl [22:23]

Guest Experience & Hospitality

• Preemptively answer guest FAQs with digital guidebooks (Touch Stay, etc.) sent at booking. “For me, it's making sure that their questions are answered before they even have them. That's really the biggest piece.” — Avery Carl [24:23]
• The less a guest needs to reach out, the better their experience and reviews.

Systems, Scaling, and SOPs (from Avery’s Book)

• Develop process checklists for recurring scenarios (guests find a hair, cleaning issues, market-specific risks, etc.).
• Avoid over-leveraging in the rush to scale after initial success. “You’re going to run into like the same ten scenarios over and over again in your property... We teach you how to build your systems and processes around these things and how to properly scale without over-leveraging yourself.” — Avery Carl [26:02]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Choosing a Market:
  “No spreadsheet can outperform just true knowledge of your market.” — Avery Carl [03:19]
• On Luxury-Themed Rentals:
  “At this price point, we really want a luxury feel. And the murals on every wall kind of feels childish.” — Avery Carl [18:31]
• On The Reality of STR Investing:
  “You can do this. You can be a successful real estate investor, not just short term rental investor, starting from wherever you are... I was making $37,000 a year when I bought my first short term rental.” — Avery Carl [34:12]
• On Managing Remotely:
  “It really is just kind of a mindset shift. If the toilet breaks in my office... I’m going to make a phone call just like I would if it’s a hundred miles away.” — Avery Carl [28:19]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Avery’s Background & The Short Term Shop — 02:02
• Acquisition Advice for Beginners — 03:19
• Property Type Mistakes — 04:19
• Cash Flow vs. Appreciation — 05:21
• Financing Trends & Sentiment in 2025 — 07:12
• Market Slowdown Reality — 08:11
• Recovery Outlook & Political Actions — 10:53
• Optimizing STR Profitability (Break-Even, Pricing) — 13:57
• Amenities: The Big Debate — 16:17
• Three C’s for STRs — 20:53
• Best Unit Mix for Consistency — 22:23
• Guest Experience & Digital Guidebooks — 24:23
• SOPs and Scaling Without Overleveraging — 26:02
• Self-Managing Efficiently — 28:19
• Finding Cleaners and Vendors Remotely — 30:14
• STR Shop Markets & Expansion — 31:06, 32:26
• Closing Encouragement to New Investors — 34:12

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Actionable Takeaways

• Buy where you know the guest perspective—personal familiarity is invaluable.
• Don’t overspend on amenities unless you’re committed long-term; focus on core quality (cute, clean, comfortable).
• Be flexible with pricing, especially during low seasons—occupancy drives algorithmic visibility.
• Systemize your business with SOPs for repeatable guest scenarios and property issues.
• You don’t have to live nearby; remote self-management is realistic with the right team and tech.
• Start where you are—income level isn’t a barrier if you’re strategic and persistent.

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Connect & Resources

• The Short Term Shop: theshorttermshop.com
• Book: Smarter Short Term Rentals (Available at BiggerPockets, Amazon, Barnes & Noble)
• Avery on Instagram: @theaverycarl and @theshorttermshop
• For STR analysis help outside STS markets: stsplus.com

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Final Thought:
“You can do this. Start from wherever you are, and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.” — Avery Carl [34:12]

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Transcript

[A]

You're now listening to the Tax Smart REI Podcast, the number one tax podcast for real estate investors.

[B]

Your source for all things real estate, accounting and tax. Here we reveal our secrets that can save you thousands in taxes, streamline your accounting process, and help grow your business. Stay tuned to hear insightful interviews with industry experts, successful real estate investors and current clients on what strategies they use to grow their business and how they steer clear of Uncle Sam.

[A]

Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of the Tax Smart REI Podcast. Today we're joined with Avery Carl, who's.

[C]

Founder of the Short Term Rental Shop, host of the Short Term Rental show, and brand new author of a book called Smart Short Term Rentals. So we'll be talking about all of that within today's episode. If you're going to be acquiring or running short term rentals, you're definitely going to want to stick around to the end because can be some things you don't want to miss. We'll be diving into all that in just one minute.

[A]

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[C]

All right. And we're back. So Avery, thank you so much for joining us on the show. Again, if you joined us before in a past episode, thank you. Would you mind just giving our listeners a brief overview of your background, how you kind of got involved in the short term rental space for those who may be new?

[D]

Yes, yes. So my name is Avery Carle. I'm A real estate investor, I own eight vacation rentals. Started my portfolio with those and eventually grew it to around 250 units. But not all of them are short term rentals. We've branched out into single family, long term, multifamily, long term, a number of things. But vacation rentals are very near and dear to my heart because they were what got us started. I mean, obviously we still buy them, but I also have a company called the Short Term Shop that We started in 2018 that is a real estate brokerage or team, so brokerage within a brokerage that helps people buy short term rental properties and we teach them how to manage them so that you don't have to pay a property manager, you know, 25 to 40% of your gross. We teach them how to manage them from anywhere. We've got 65 agents in 20 markets and we've helped over 5,000 people buy and sell short term rental properties.

[C]

That's awesome. And I know your new book focuses on optimizing short term rentals and the portfolios and all of that, so we definitely want to dive into some of your tips there. But before we kind of get into the portfolio side of things, for people who are maybe just starting out in 2025, maybe they're looking to acquire their first short term rental, you know, on the acquisition side, what would be your number one tips for them? Hey, they're just starting out. What would you advise that person?

[D]

Number one tip is buy in a market that you know there's a lot of content out there about. This is the best place to buy or top 10 places to buy short term rentals. Buy in the place that you have a competitive advantage and what that means is a place that you know, so a place that you are or have been your target guest avatar. So I only buy in vacation markets and I only buy in vacation markets where I've been a tourist to before. So I know what my guests are looking for, I know why they're coming there and what they're coming to do. So there really is no substitute, no spreadsheet that can outperform just true knowledge of your market.

[C]

That's a great tip. It all comes down to the guest experience, especially in 2025. It sounds like it's not like it used to be in the past where you could just buy your short term rental wherever, throw it up on Airbnb and be all set. Any red flags you see when people are going to acquire their short term rentals that you know, outside of maybe buying in, not the right market, yes.

[D]

So one of the biggest mistakes that I see people making is buying cheap property just because it's cheap. A lot of times, for example, the type of property that guests come to visit. So let's take mountain markets, for example. People come to the mountains, they want to stay in a cabin. But a four bedroom cabin is typically going to be more expensive than a four bedroom, like 90s ranch home that looks like your mom's house in Kansas City. So I think the mistake that I see people make is they'll look at the data and say, oh, four bedrooms in this market make this much. I have these two four bedrooms to choose between. I'm going to choose the cheaper one because it will, there's. There will be more of a margin between the income and the purchase price. But then they come to find out that actually that type of property does not rent as well. So it makes less money. You're not actually getting that higher margin. So choosing the type of property that tourists have come to expect is also very important.

[C]

That makes a ton of sense when you're analyzing properties. And this might be like a little bit of a different question here, but like when you're analyzing properties, do you put more emphasis into cash flow or appreciation or is that kind of like a mixture of both?

[D]

A mixture of both. So first we want to see cash flow. But I have made the mistake of buying in a market. And this wasn't for a short term rental, but it definitely applies to short term rentals as well. We bought in a market in the Midwest that typically does not appreciate. Owned it for three or four years, and over time, stuff outside of our control forced us to have to sell that property. And this particular one, it was the property across the street that was a bigger apartment complex that that owner just stopped managing it and eventually it was condemned by the city. All the windows were broken out. There's a lot of crime over there. A lot of people living there that weren't supposed to be that was making its way across to our units. They were breaking into our units, punching holes in the walls. Eventually we got tired of dealing with it. Not only did it scare off our good tenants, but we were having to go in and replace things that these people were breaking. And after five or six years we were like, okay, we gotta sell this thing. We're tired of dealing with it. And we had to sell it for actually a little bit less than what we paid for it because we bought in a market that doesn't appreciate. So I used to say Cash flow only. Appreciation is garbage. But it really would have been nice if having owned that property for five or six years, that there would have been a little bit of appreciation. So we weren't taking as much of a loss because there are things that can happen that can make you sell a property even if you do everything right. So cash flow is always most important, but appreciation should not be neglected either.

[E]

Yeah, it's like you got to have cash flow just to sustain the business or the property itself. Hopefully it's self sustaining, but appreciation is always. You got to look for both. I totally agree. As you are in kind of the role that you're in with kind of the brokerage business, are you seeing a lot of people use a specific type of financing right now? I know for like vacation rentals, the DSCR loans have been really popular. Are you still seeing that or has there been any sort of shift with the interest rates where they're at today?

[D]

So a lot of people still use DCR loans because it's those loans you are approved for based on what the property will make rather than what you make as a person, as your income or. But the interest rate on those are higher than conventional loans, which in a high interest rate environment makes them extremely high. So we see a lot of people doing conventional 10% down vacation home loans, which you're allowed to put on Airbnb and VRBO as long as you're using them for at least two weeks out of the year or just a 15% down conventional investment loan. So there's some things that are unattractive about that. Like you have to get those types of loans in your personal name rather than your llc. But the interest rates are better, usually. So. But typically we see those three types, the DSCR and then two conventional types, the vacation home loan and just a conventional investment for 15% down.

[C]

Got you. How would you say that interest rates overall have impacted the sentiment or the appetite for short term rentals? You know, especially now in 2025.

[D]

Oh, it's impacted the appetite for every kind of real estate. A lot of people don't realize that. They're like, oh, we're waiting for the crash, waiting for the crash. Waiting. We've been in the crash for two years, guys. So 2023 and 2024, fewer homes were sold in those past two years than in the last 30 years. More homes were sold in 2009, 10, you know, after the big great recession crash than in the last two years. So the real estate market has completely stopped and everybody's like, well, rates aren't that high. They were 20% in the 80s, but they didn't go, they did not quadruple overnight in the 80s, I think is the difference. If we had seen this increase in interest rates slightly slowly over several years, I don't think the market would have completely stopped the way that it has. But since it happened like this, I think that it, it really just threw a wrench in the gears of the market and to really understand why things aren't selling. 83% of mortgages are under 6%. Not as many as you would think are under 3%, but 83% are under 6%. So right now we're hanging at right around 6.89, maybe 6.79%. And that's a big jump for people. So I think it's going to have to get down to six or maybe just a little bit higher than six to kind of get things moving again. Because whether you're a short term rental investor or primary homeowner, if you've got a 4% mortgage, jumping to almost 7% is completely unmanageable. But if you get down to, you know, 6.25, you know, maybe that becomes a little bit more manageable and things start to move. So, so real estate market has, is crashed. And I think a lot of people didn't realize that.

[A]

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[C]

Yeah, yeah, we've definitely heard a lot about that and things have definitely slowed down from an acquisition side. From what we've seen on our end, do you see this? Like, I'm not asking you to necessarily break out your crystal ball here, but do you see this recovering at any point over this year, in 2025 or perhaps, you know, in the next few years?

[D]

Ooh, that's a great question. So let me preface what I'm about to say with I'm not a political person. I'm a rock and roller. I think Ozzy Osbourne should be president of the United States. So what I'm about to say is not political, but whoever happens to be president at the time does affect the world around us. So I'm going to talk about it. So, you know, the Biden administration was very disconnected from the real estate market and, you know, rightfully so. We had bigger fish to fry with inflation and trying to get down. Like, I get that Trump administration has been in office for, I don't know, almost two months. In the first 30 days of being in office, this administration took 35 actions that directly affect the housing market. So nothing has moved just yet. But we're going from no actions taken to help the housing market over four years to in one month, there have been 35. So the fact that somebody is in there trying to move things around I think will eventually. And then something else that I read an article on last week about the government job cuts that are going on right now and interest rates. So, as we know, Trump wanted to fire Jerome Powell. He can't, because the president is not allowed to fire for whatever law. I'm not going to pretend to be a political science major, but I do read a lot. He can't fire him, but we've been trying to work on the inflation thing for several years. It's kind of going all right. Not really, but the two major things that the Fed looks at when they're looking at interest rates and dropping them is the inflation report and the jobs report. So we haven't really been able to do anything about inflation. But with the Department of Government Efficiency going in and laying a bunch of people off, they are affecting the unemployment count. Now, the actual unemployment numbers of government officials is not that much, but what I read last week, which I think was in the Wall Street Journal, anyway, for every one government employee that gets laid off, there are two government contractors that get laid off. So now they are shifting those jobs reports. So I'm interested to see what is going to happen, if anything. And of course, the Fed rates don't directly affect the mortgage rates, but the, that economic uncertainty of the jobs reports does affect the 10 year treasury yield which affects mortgage rates. So all that to say, I'm not sure exactly when, but things are being like the powers that be are pushing to move the real estate market which we haven't had in years. So I'll be interested to see.

[C]

Yeah, hopefully these things do come down and it does make the acquisition environment a little bit easier for people because I know there are a lot of people who maybe are sitting on the sidelines or trying to get into the game but just kind of have their, have some hesitations, reservations about, you know, being able to make a property's cash flow and, and the risk that's involved in all that. But if we fast forward a little bit here, let's assume somebody does get into a property, they make their acquisition, they get it going. I know you just came out with the new book on optimizing the short term rentals. Like what are the big keys to optimizing and actually making sure that you're running a profitable short term rental?

[D]

So I would like to say that it's this big convoluted thing that really required me to write a 300 page book. But it's really just a lot of common sense and setting up your systems and processes and understanding really pricing. So a lot of people, I think the biggest hang up that people have with managing their short term rentals is they get their break even number in their mind. So let's say my break even number is $200 a night, that I have to get $200 a night at 70% occupancy to break even on my property. But the short term rental market, you know, it's not like a long term rental where you're making the same amount of rent every month. It's seasonal and it's also subjective. So if you've got bad pictures then you're not going to hit those numbers like someone who has the same property, who has great pictures. But anyway they, they look at this break even number and you know, say we're in January and they don't have any bookings and they're at 201 bucks a night. And they're like, well I can't go to 199 because that's below my break even number. Well your break even number is an average. So in the high season you're gonna get much higher than your break even and in the low season you're gonna have to drop below. And so many people are like no, no, that's my bottom. The 200 is my bottom. And they don't understand that there are things you can do with pricing, like drop it low for a couple of days to wake up the algorithm and remind it that your listing is there, get a few bookings and then pop it back up above. So I think people think lower my prices, I'll lose money. But really it's not necessarily about lowering them forever, just temporarily lowering them to kind of get things moving again and then you can bump back up. So I think people get so stuck on what their break even number is that they let their properties sit empty for $0 rather than getting it booked for $5 a night under their break even number in the off season.

[E]

Yeah, that's great. And obviously no one wants to have it $5 a night. And hopefully, I mean, you'd have a certain clientele I think that books your place. But other than pricing, which I agree is extremely important to get right using some sort of, you know, software out there, probably not just the standard Airbnb numbers you put in there on the, on the first setup, but what about more about like amenitizing or like design? I feel like I've seen a lot of things like that where some of the top properties are really amenitizing, throwing in all sorts of like pickleball courts and things like that. And then they're going pretty wild on like the design, making it super, like beautiful murals, things like that. What about those two parts?

[D]

I'm really glad you asked about that because I have a little bit of a contrarian take on that than a lot of influencers in the space. So that is not necessary. Doing the crazy amenities, the crazy theming. The only place that that is necessary is Orlando because it's kind of the standard to have the extremely hardcore Disney themed stuff. You know, not just a Mickey mural on the wall, but outside of that, a lot of people do, you know, they go nuts in the backyard. We're putting a pool, we're putting a pickleball court, we're putting putt putt, we're putting the golf simulator and human size bowling and all these things. And we're doing murals in every single room and every single room is going to have a different theme. That's great and it will add income. But what people don't think about is had a client recently in our mastermind. So we weren't their agents, we weren't working on this property. It was in a market that we don't work in. And he asked us to look at his deal and he said okay, I'm buying this $500,000 property first one first property. And I'm working with a company to amenitize it, like a big national design company, which is super cool. We need those guys because they're looking at the rehabs of properties through the lens of what increases income and not just, you know, some local contractor that's like, yeah, this will be nicer when I'm done with it and not having a cohesive product. So I'm not saying that we don't need those guys. But $500,000 property, $250,000 in updates and amenities. Only one or two of those updates, like a kitchen update, is, is something that adds value to the house. So when you're doing these things like murals and adding all of these amenities that are technically personal property, like saunas and hot tubs and things, you have to be sure that you are going to hold this property for at least 10 years. Because if you buy this 500,000 property, put 250 cash in amenities in it, you could have gone and bought another million dollar property or two $500,000 properties. And if you have to sell that thing, you're not getting that 250 back. Because murals don't add value to a house. Putt putt doesn't add value to a house. It can add income on the short term rental side, which is important, but you have to be sure that, you know, the guy across the street isn't going to let his property get condemned and then you end up having to sell yours. So it's something to think about for sure that I think a lot of people don't think about the exit strategy when they put this much money into the amenities. We actually listed a property like this recently. The income was amazing. I was sure, even in the way the market is right now, that this Property was doing $300,000 a year. This will be an easy sell. Had murals on every single wall. You know, everything that we've talked about, it sat on the market for a year. It expired on us. This seller went to a different agency, it expired on them and then came back to us. And we were able to get it sold on the second round. But the feedback from all of the buyers that went through the property was at this price point, we really want a luxury feel. And the murals on every wall kind of feels childish. So if you ever have to sell, you're either a not going to get that money back or you have to be willing to put the property back to being something that's going to be more universally appealing and not just to a short term rental investor. So all those things are great. They will add income. 100%. They will add income. But you have to think about the rest of the picture too and zoom out on am I ever going to sell this? Will I be able to get this money back?

[E]

Yeah, that's always been. My question is you put in all this stuff on like a single family home and you've got all the pickleball courts, all those things we've talked about, you're then going to sell. It seems like the sale is going to be hard and you've got all that sunk cost in there. And it seems like you're not just going to sell to some normal primary residence type person who's going to make that their primary home. It's basically going to have to be to another vacation rental owner. Correct. It seems like that's going to have to be it. And you've got really just a subset market who's going to be looking at something like that. So, right.

[D]

You're shrinking your buyer pool. And even then it's still going to be very preferential. Like if you've got something set up for bachelorette parties. What if I am, as a vacation rental owner, don't want to only focus on bachelorettes? Well, I'm going to look at the property next door that isn't themed like that. So. So again, it's kind of a catch 22 because it will add a lot of income, but you just have to make sure you're never going to sell it.

[C]

It seems like you got to be thinking a little bit more long term. And to your point, what your exit strategy is, when you put money into this, are there other things you can do, other levers you can pull that would optimize perhaps the cash flow or income from the property that don't have to do with amenities.

[D]

For me, cute, clean, comfortable, the three C's has been enough for ours. So I've owned vacation rentals for 10 years now. Well before COVID I've never sold one of my personal ones and we've always just made sure that they're updated very clean and that there's nothing for guests to complain about because not every guest is looking for the crazy amenities. So you don't. I think people make the mistake of thinking because they see a lot of these crazy amenitized properties online that, oh, I have to do that too or else I'm not going to get rented. No, you'll still get rented and you're going to be able to have the flexibility of renting at a lower price because you didn't put half the value of the property in cash into amenities. So cute, clean, comfortable will get booked. Assuming you've bought in the right market at the right number of bedrooms and you're managing it well. So don't get sucked into that, that you have to do that or else you're not going to be competitive as long as your house is like updated and doesn't look like, you know, 90s blonde wood everywhere or worse. You know, some of the mountain markets that we work in, dark green carpet and like mauve colored carpet came in a lot of them for a while. As long as you're updating those things that really do look bad, you're going to be fine.

[C]

That makes a lot of sense and that is a contrarian take to some of the takes that we've heard. But I'm sure there's no one size fits all or necessarily right or wrong answer on everything. From your perspective, have you found a certain unit mix to be the more profitable ones?

[D]

So not necessarily more profitable, but more consistent. So the big high occupancy properties, those do perform really well, but a lot of people get so focused on those that they forget about small properties. So just because a property is a one bedroom doesn't mean it can't be luxury or nice, doesn't mean it has to be cheap and in the right market. So I would not employ this strategy in like a metro market where there's a lot of hotels. But like in the Smokies where I own Emerald coast of Florida, where I own studios and one bedrooms consistently stay booked because you still get couples that are just coming down and they'll book a little bit more last minute because it's not, you know, four or five families trying to come together with a schedule. But over the course of time now I've owned these sizes through several market cycles. They consistently stay booked. So, you know, we have some clients who own 35 or 40 vacation rentals and could buy whatever size they want, but they only buy one bedroom cabins in the Smokies and one bedroom studio or studio condos at the beach just because they're so consistent.

[C]

That makes a lot of sense. And basically from Ryan, I have interviewed a few different short term rental investors over the last few weeks and it seems like there's definitely a lot of ways to play this game, right? You could play at the studio or single family level, I guess you could say like, or one unit. And then you could also play bigger. You could also play with amenities, although you have to know what you're doing. One thing consistently that we've heard is that photos are like top and like that makes total sense from a marketing perspective. But if we switch gears just a little bit into hospitality, right, like we know that short term rentals, this is not just a long term rental business where you find a tenant, maybe they have some stability, you rent it out to them and you're good to go. There's an experiential component to this. Do you have any tips for people who are maybe actively running short term rentals right now who want to optimize their experience for their guests so they can go ahead and get that five star coveted rating on, on Airbnb or vrbo.

[D]

So for me it's making sure that their questions are answered before they even have them. So we use what's called a digital guidebook. The one we use is Touch Day and everybody's been to a short term rental before where they go and there's a binder on the coffee table that says everything you need to know, like what the wifi password is, all that. So that's your guidebook, but we use a digital one that goes to the guest at the time they book and it has everything they could ever want to know about the property from what kind of coffee makers we have to does doordash deliver there and how far you are from all the attractions, how far are you from the closest grocery store, closest hospital, things like that, how to work the TVs, how to work the thermostat, all of these things, they know they have it there before they even have a chance to ask. Which is really important because you know, I know I've got little kids, 4 and 6 and if we're, we've been on the road all day and we're coming in late, I have got to be caffeinated in the morning. And if I stop, you know, we usually stop at the grocery store on the way in and if I've gotten the wrong kind of coffee, like I got pods and they have drip or vice versa, that is not cool. That is that we're going to have a bad morning. So just those little things that before they can even ask you, it's right there for them, that's really the biggest piece, is that they don't have to ask.

[C]

Right. That makes a lot of sense. Got to think about it beforehand because every time you have to reach out on Airbnb. I know this from being a guest. It's like almost takes away a little bit from the experience. So I guess to your point, the more you can make it seamless, the more you could have set up in advance, the better. So I know you recently released your book Smarter Short Term Rentals. Is there any major tips from that book that people would need to know?

[D]

Yeah, so standard operating procedures is a big one. There's about you're going to run into like the same 10 scenarios over and over again in your property, kind of the same ten guest archetypes also. And so it kind of goes through each of those things, how to deal with them, how to prepare for them, and what your process would be when those things happen. So for example, the guest who finds a hair on the bed or the guest who comes in and the cleaner forgot to clean something happened with the calendars and what to do in those situations and how to build your standard operating procedures for any situations that may arise. You know, there's market specific situations. So beach markets, we have hurricanes that we have to deal with sometimes, usually it's after the season. But there are going to be market specific things that pop up. They're going to be specific to you. And so we teach you how to build your systems and processes around these things and how to identify them and then also how to properly scale without over leveraging yourself. I think that's a big one that a lot of people, they'll start getting a few bookings on their first property and then they're like, oh my God, I'm going to buy 100 of these. I'm going to start a property management company. I'm going to become an influencer and I'm going to do all these things. They get really excited and then they go over leverage themselves so they can buy a bunch of them really quickly and how to not make those mistakes.

[A]

Hey taxpayer investors, real quick. Just wanted to remind you that I do have a YouTube channel that I'll be posted on relatively consistently this year covering tax strategies, tax tips and tax news for real estate investors and business owners within that 7 to 12 minute range. So if you do like that shorter form, hard hitting content, you can go ahead and find me at www.YouTube.com thomascastelli or simply by searching Thomas CPA on YouTube. Subscribe to the channel and drop me a comment. What video you want to see next. And that just might be my next video. I'll see you there. But for now we'll dive right back into Today's episode.

[C]

Absolutely, absolutely. So when it comes, I know a lot of the people that we work with, they come in, they want to use the tax benefits of the short term rentals which we all know you have to self manage. And you mentioned earlier that part of what you explained in the book is how people can self manage their properties. What does that look like to self manage from your perspective? Right. Oftentimes we see people have some repair folks on their team, contractors and then maybe some, some cleaners. How do you see that team being built out for someone who wants to self manage their portfolio and avoid those 40%, 30 to 40% fees from property managers?

[D]

Yeah. So it really is just kind of a mindset shift. So a lot of people are like, oh well I need it to be by me so I can clean. No you don't. You hire a cleaner. Do you clean your own house all the time or do you maybe have a housekeeper come every now and then? For me I only have a housekeeper come because we're so busy with everything. But it's the same thing. If the toilet breaks in my office right behind me, I'm going to make a phone call just like I would if it's a hundred miles away because I'm not a toilet fixer. I don't know how to do that. So you just have to shift your mindset to oh it's right behind me to oh, it's several hundred miles away. You really just need a good cleaner, good handy person. There's lots of property management tools now that help that were not around when I first started that automate a lot of things. So we use hospitable hostfully is another one host away. A bunch of them have the word host in them but they all do basically the same thing, pricing tools. We do have a lot of investors who are looking to utilize that STR tax strategy. And especially if you're buying a property that's not furnished, it's really not too difficult to make sure that you're meeting those material participation hours through the setup process because you're going to be there for like a week working on it, making more trips to Home Depot and Walmart than you ever thought you would make in a 24 hour period. And then self managing, you know, you're handling all the guest communications which that sounds like so much, but it's really just answering a few questions that pop up on your phone here and there. It's nothing. That is something that is overwhelming by any stretch of the imagination.

[C]

Right. Especially if you go and set it all up beforehand so that they don't have to ask a lot of questions. Right? Yeah. So that's a major key.

[E]

Avery, my last question for you. As far as like people finding good cleaners, good handymen, especially if they're out of state, is it simply just going on some Facebook groups and asking around or how do people normally find, especially if you're not in that area, how do people find good people?

[D]

Yes, that's a really good question. So Facebook groups have worked well in the past, but I think everybody's kind of discovered like, oh, there's this local Facebook group for short term rentals in my town and I'm a short term rental cleaner. Let me, every time I see this, somebody ask for a cleaner, send my cousins and my friends and my mom and my everybody else to go recommend me. So there's a lot of garbage to sort through on Facebook groups, but you can. The easiest way to do that is just anybody who recommends a person just say, hey, have you actually worked with them before? And make sure you're getting a legit recommendation and not like a, oh, well, I talked to them one time and they were nice. So. Or you can work with a short term shop. And we have a list of vetted cleaners and handymen and every vendor you could need in all the 20 markets that we work in.

[C]

What are those 20 markets, by the way? Or what are the key markets that you would maybe want to mention for somebody who may want to work with you?

[D]

Sure. So we work in a variety of markets that are mostly tourism and vacation dependent markets. Some of them are what I call vacation ish markets that are technically metro markets, but they have a big tourism component like Orlando or Scottsdale or like the Sarasota, Bradenton area where you. But the big vacation markets that we work in, we. I mean, there's a lot of them. I can't name them all, but Smoky Mountains in Tennessee, Emerald coast of Florida, Gulf Shores, Alabama, all the coastal Carolinas, Texas Hill country, the Texas Gulf Coast, Broken Bow, Oklahoma, and then western North Carolina, Smoky Mountains and then Blue Ridge, Georgia. So like kind of just basically the entire Southeast, plus Scottsdale, Broken Bow and Branson, Missouri. So we try to make sure that our clients have a diverse range of options from affordable markets for, if you want to just, you're just getting started, like Myrtle beach or Branson, you can get in there for 250, no problem. Or if you're a high income earner and you're here for the Sierra tax Strategy and you need a big one. Want to spend $5 million right out of the gate. We've got markets for that too. So we try to have a wide range and everything in between. Beach markets, mountain markets, national park markets. Just so all of our clients have the right options for them.

[E]

If someone came to you and was like, hey, I want to get into X market, but you're not there, is there like a transition that you guys do or how does that work if you're not in a market?

[D]

Yeah, yeah, that's a great question. So all of our clients that come and buy with us in the markets that we work in, we send them to our management Monday class that my husband coaches for free. So we get you ready to go, ready to turn that key and start making money by the closing date. We do it while you're under contract for free. If you're buying in a market that we don't happen to have an agent, then we do have a very affordable paid option where we can still look at the properties and help you analyze and teach you how to manage everything. But we're just not actually your agent there. It's called STS plus Boom.

[C]

Okay. So you could help people even in markets where you're not in. If some of the people listening, I know there's a lot of people on the show, maybe they're acquiring the first short term rental or perhaps they're looking to expand their portfolio. If they wanted to work with you at the short term rental shop, what's the best way for them to learn more about that, what that would look like?

[D]

Yeah, yeah. So you'd head on over to the Shorttermshop.com to check out our markets. If you're not in one of our markets, it would be stsplus.com and then also just follow me on Instagram. So the brand is at the short term shop, but if you want to follow me as an investor on my day to day journey, then you can follow me at the Avery Carl.

[C]

Awesome. So we're going to drop that in the show notes. And I also know your book, your book covers goes from finding a market, identifying properties all the way to setting up your property and basically being able to optimize it. Where could they find that book?

[D]

Yeah, so you can find it wherever books are sold. You can walk into Barnes and Noble and get one. It's on Amazon, it's on Audible. The best deal is going to probably be on the biggerpockets bookstore. So biggerpockets.com smarter str all right.

[C]

Awesome. That will also be in the show notes. Thank you for joining us today, Avery. Definitely eye opening and seeing the different ways that you can actually operate short term rentals without like huge amenities. Although you could do that as we've learned in previous episodes. Is there any final takeaway you'd want to leave the audience with before we wrap it up?

[D]

My only takeaway would be like, you can do this. You can be a successful real estate investor, not just short term rental investor. Starting from wherever you are. I think so many people think, oh, that's for rich people. That's for people who are rich already. I was making $37,000 a year when I bought my first short term rental and qualified by myself because my husband and I were alternating who would get the conventional loan. So. So I had to qualify by myself on that and I was able to. It wasn't easy. Nothing is ever easy. But if you really want to do this, you can start from wherever it is that you are and don't let anybody tell you different.

[C]

That's good to hear because I know a lot of people have some hesitations, but, you know, at the end of the day, you just gotta get the ball rolling and, you know, just don't stop. Right. So want to thank you again for coming on the show today. It was great to have you and we'll see everybody in the next week's episode of the Taxmart REI podcast.

[B]

Thanks for listening to today's show. If you enjoyed the show, please find us on itunes and leave us a review. You can also email [e-mail] with any feedback or topic suggestions. We are always taking on new clients and with the new tax laws in play, you really don't want to navigate this alone. Let us help you save money on taxes with your accounting and CFO needs to become a client. Navigate to our client [e-mail] and fill out a web form with as much detail about your situation as possible. Thanks so much for listening. Have a great rest of your week.