#4335 Frankie, My Dear, I Don’t Give A Damn

Summary

Podcast Summary: TBTL #4335 – "Frankie, My Dear, I Don’t Give A Damn"

Release Date: November 12, 2024
Hosts: Luke Burbank and Andrew Walsh
Duration: Approximately 57 minutes

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1. Introduction

In episode #4335 of TBTL: Too Beautiful To Live, hosts Luke Burbank and Andrew Walsh dive deep into the ongoing controversy surrounding Frankie Valli's live performances, share personal anecdotes about home maintenance, and engage with listener contributions. The episode is characterized by the hosts' signature humor and candid dialogue, making complex topics both entertaining and accessible.

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2. Frankie Valli Lip-Sync Controversy

a. Overview of the Controversy

The primary focus of this episode is the heated debate over whether Frankie Valli, the iconic frontman of The Four Seasons, has been lip-syncing during his performances. This topic has gained traction following a recent Washington Post article titled "Frankie Valli Just Can't Quit" by Jeff Edgers.

• Luke Burbank [02:05]: "Another extensive conversation about Frankie Valli and whether or not he is lip syncing at his shows, the story that just refuses to go away."

b. Washington Post Investigation

The Washington Post conducted an in-depth investigation, analyzing seven different performances of Frankie Valli to determine the authenticity of his vocals. The article features interviews with Valli and his collaborators, as well as other musicians like Ann Wilson and Graham Nash, who express skepticism about his live singing abilities.

• Luke Burbank [35:38]: "They take seven different performances of this particular song, and then they overlay them and they note that the vocals are absolutely Frankie Valli's vocals perfectly in time and perfectly on the same."

• Andrew Walsh [36:55]: "So they're picking up where the recording ends, basically."

c. Reactions from Fans and Other Artists

The hosts discuss the polarized reactions from fans and fellow musicians. While some fans defend Valli's performance integrity, others, including notable artists like Ann Wilson from Heart and Graham Nash, openly question his on-stage authenticity.

• Ann Wilson [43:29]: "His face is completely still."

• Graham Nash [44:48]: "He is just lip syncing badly to a tape. As a musician, if you're not singing, you shouldn't be on stage."

• Andrew Walsh [38:15]: "Jamie Kaim, a guitarist in Valley's touring band a few years ago, admits that he had no idea whether his boss was singing live."

d. Hosts' Perspectives

Both hosts express skepticism about the necessity and validity of such investigations, emphasizing respect for Valli's legacy while acknowledging the entertainment value for audiences.

• Luke Burbank [37:11]: "It's like George Burns wearing a toupee. It's like, he didn't."

• Andrew Walsh [39:17]: "It is something to see. You have these very... an odd look of him staring out and barely moving his face while these really long, extended, high-pitched vocals are being broadcast."

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3. Home Improvement Updates

a. Andrew's Furnace Repair Story

Andrew shares a detailed account of his recent experience repairing his home's furnace. He praises the service provided by Mikey from Seaton, highlighting Mikey's professionalism and personal touch.

• Andrew Walsh [12:38]: "This is so great. So a lot of these businesses that will send a service person to your house now will have an automated system..."

• Andrew Walsh [15:21]: "He installed one of these sensors on me, actually."

b. Interaction with Service Provider

Mikey's outstanding service is a focal point, illustrating the importance of reliable home maintenance professionals. Andrew discusses how Mikey not only fixed the immediate issue but also provided insights into potential future problems, emphasizing proactive home care.

• Andrew Walsh [17:07]: "He didn't go on a hard sell with us at all. Mikey is the best."

• Luke Burbank [21:16]: "That is very, very gratifying."

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4. Listener Emails and Donations

a. Thanking Donors and Listeners

The hosts take time to acknowledge and thank various listeners and donors, creating a sense of community and appreciation.

• Andrew Walsh [27:35]: "Thank you. We really appreciate you."

b. Dan's Email: Hertz Overcharge Incident

Dan from Federal Way shares a concerning experience where he was charged $10,000 by Hertz for allegedly driving 25,000 miles on an "unlimited mileage" contract. The hosts dissect the incident, questioning the clarity of Hertz's policies and the franchisee's interpretation of "unlimited."

• Dan's Issue [48:42]: Charged $10,000 for 25,000 miles on an unlimited mileage rental.

• Andrew Walsh [53:04]: "If we're going to draw a line somewhere because you can't just say."

c. Discussion on Car Rental Policies

Luke and Andrew critique Hertz's handling of the situation, particularly the vague definition of "unlimited" mileage and the potential for abuse by franchisees.

• Luke Burbank [54:27]: "I don't understand why this guy... cared about the 10,000 miles."

• Andrew Walsh [55:23]: "They need to tighten this up and stop calling it unlimited."

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5. Closing Remarks

The episode concludes with the hosts wrapping up their discussions, reflecting on the day's topics with their characteristic humor and camaraderie.

• Luke Burbank [56:21]: "That is a fitting end to today's program."

• Andrew Walsh [56:34]: "All right, thanks for listening, everybody."

They remind listeners to tune in the next day for more engaging conversations, reinforcing the show's community-centric vibe.

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Notable Quotes

• Luke Burbank [01:56]: "We're about to go viral right now."

• Andrew Walsh [06:12]: "You're on a hot streak with this, I believe."

• Luke Burbank [40:59]: "I'm going to apply for a producer position on why is this Happening with Chris Hayes."

• Andrew Walsh [46:36]: "The lady on the phone said, if you have hardware, just put it in, like a Ziploc bag or something."

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Key Takeaways

1. Frankie Valli Lip-Sync Debate: The episode provides a comprehensive look into the controversy, weighing journalistic investigations against fan loyalty and artist integrity.

2. Appreciation for Reliable Services: Through Andrew's furnace repair story, the hosts highlight the value of trustworthy professionals in maintaining home safety and comfort.

3. Consumer Protection Concerns: Dan's Hertz overcharge case sparks a discussion on the importance of clear contractual terms and corporate accountability in the service industry.

4. Community Engagement: The hosts' interactions with listeners and donors underscore the strong community bond that defines TBTL.

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Conclusion

Episode #4335 of TBTL: Too Beautiful To Live masterfully balances humor, personal stories, and serious discussions. Whether dissecting the nuances of a beloved performer's authenticity or navigating the frustrations of consumer services, Luke and Andrew deliver content that is both entertaining and thought-provoking. This episode serves as a testament to their ability to engage listeners with diverse topics while fostering a sense of community and mutual respect.

Transcript

[Luke Burbank]

Has anybody got a pill speaker? We need to get some bong bong pow in here. Joe, aren't you a music guy? Uh, I actually teach middle school choir. I wish I was pulling down six figures like you, though. Stacking dough, you know what I mean? I'm actually saving up right now so I could buy this plane.

[Andrew Walsh]

Check it out.

[Luke Burbank]

Believe it or not, I've never been on an airplane before. Yo, I can't even process that. Jamay. I need a brewski like my mama needs a kidney.

[Andrew Walsh]

How's she doing, by the way?

[Luke Burbank]

She's hanging in there. Yeah.

[Andrew Walsh]

All you can do, man. Tbtl. Hey, you know, if we knocked down that wall, it would really open the place up. You know, clean up the blood, maybe add some French doors, maybe ping pong table right there.

[Luke Burbank]

You know, I'm just riffing. Is there, and I'm just guessing here.

[Andrew Walsh]

Some kind of medication that you maybe.

[Luke Burbank]

Need a lot of and have taken.

[Andrew Walsh]

None of or maybe too much of today?

[Luke Burbank]

Mmm. Ah, gazpacho soup just burned my lips.

[Andrew Walsh]

Is it gazpacho?

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, it's been sitting out.

[Andrew Walsh]

It warmed up.

[Luke Burbank]

It warmed up so much that it burned your lip. Let me explain something to you. If you're expecting something ice cold and you bring it up to your lips and it's room temp, it's going to feel like your mouth's on fire. It's gonna feel like your body's on fire. And boom goes the dynamite. I could really use a win here. Well, all right. Hello, good morning, and welcome, everyone, to a Tuesday edition of tbtl, the show that just might be too beautiful to live. We're about to go viral right now. My name is Luke Burbank. I am your host. Yeah, everyone's got a podcast coming to you from the Madrona Hill studio, perched high above the mighty Columbia, where we've already experienced, like, four different weather patterns this morning, and we've settled in on gloomy and gray. But as we like to say, it's warm and dry here inside the podcast. It's episode 4335 in a collector's series.

[Andrew Walsh]

Let the fun begin.

[Luke Burbank]

Another episode of tbtl, another extensive conversation about Frankie Valli.

[Andrew Walsh]

You gotta be kidding me.

[Luke Burbank]

And whether or not he is lip syncing at his shows, the story that just refuses to go away. We talked about this yesterday on the program because we played a voicemail from a listener who had been to a Frankie Valli show, and I figured that was the end of it. And then, by happenstance, I found this Story in the Washington Post yesterday, a thoroughly and well reported piece where not only is Frankie Valli interviewed on the subject, but many of his collaborators are and other random musicians are forced to watch footage of Frankie Valli to try to get to the bottom of his lip syncing or not. And by, by the way, Frankie Valli says, no, I'm not lip syncing. Well, we know you're good at lying, so we'll dig into that today. And also we've got some updates on our various home improving attempts here. Andrew's furnace, My closet dilemma.

[Andrew Walsh]

Bring it back home, baby. Bring it back home.

[Luke Burbank]

So we'll talk about that as well. Speaking of Andrew Walsh, the longest running cobra of the show may be best known for his depictions of the tall ships he's sticking out his gyat for the rizzler.

[Andrew Walsh]

Explicit.

[Luke Burbank]

And he's joining us right now. Good morning, my friend.

[Andrew Walsh]

I'm so proud that you used the I know you're good at line drop because when you sent me, you fed.

[Luke Burbank]

Me that one yesterday.

[Andrew Walsh]

I did.

[Luke Burbank]

That was your response to the Frankie Valley story.

[Andrew Walsh]

You sent me this article, which we'll get to later on. I'm very excited to hear about this. I meant to read it. I'm literally mad at myself because it looks like such a good read. But you'll walk me through it later on in the show. This Frankie Valli story. But you sent it to me. You sent me a link to the story yesterday and I just responded, well, we know you're good at lying. And I remember thinking, I wonder if that'll make the show. I wonder if that'll make the show. And it did.

[Luke Burbank]

So do you feel mildly starstruck, that idea?

[Andrew Walsh]

I do. I feel starstruck now.

[Luke Burbank]

Being featured in Lights is on this program.

[Andrew Walsh]

Is honored too strong of a word? No, honored is not too strong of a word. I don't think. I think I feel honored and starstruck. I do.

[Luke Burbank]

It's an honor and a privilege, it really is to get to be on this show. A show, Andrew, that was mentioned on a much more popular show today. Chris Hayes, why is this Happening? Podcast really, really good episode of. I mean, the show's always great, but it's just what, just what I needed to hear. I've been talking a lot about kind of my level of engagement with political news and conversations and strategies and the like. And he talks to someone who is an old friend of his and was at one time the head of moveon.org I believe her name is Anna Galand and is Now I believe a professional professor teaching, you know, policy or something. Anyway, they just had a really, really good, really heartening conversation about where we're at and where we can go. And in fact, they said something which really stuck with me. Chris mentioned this and he was talking about in another. He was talking about basically all of the kind of finger pointing and recriminations that we're going to see swirling around. And we've already kind of seen swirling around of whose quote, unquote fault this was. What group of people, what demographic, what interest group were we too woke? Were we not woke enough? Was this because of sort of one plank in the platform or a different plank? And he was talking about another place that's been under an authoritarian rule and where they were resisting. And he said that there was a saying that they had. I'm in this other country. And it was, no one lets go of anyone's hand. In other words, we're not throwing anyone out of the boat. Whether those are people, you know, whether those are trans folks, whether those are progressive folks, whether those are folks that tilt towards the center. Like, this is not the time for us to be unlocking our hands with anyone who's in this coalition, you know, because it's tempting to want to try to figure out who's the Jonah, you know, why did this happen? And I do mean the character from Veep.

[Andrew Walsh]

I, you know, I should. Oh, I should not. Oh, this is not where I want to start the show.

[Luke Burbank]

You're on a hot streak with this, I believe. Yesterday you said something like, I've regretted saying things on the show before, but I don't know if I've ever regretted something in advance more than what I'm about to say.

[Andrew Walsh]

And that was me retelling a one panel cartoon about Jerry Lee Lewis.

[Luke Burbank]

Jerry Lee Lewis related cartoon.

[Andrew Walsh]

I actually forgot about that. What's the opposite of a triumph? I forgot about that little failure from yesterday's show. I guess I'll say it. I really don't want to go down this, this, this direction today, but I'll just, I started it, so I'll say it. I told you a while back about somebody. I followed several people like this and, you know, and I listened to what they have to say, but I follow, you know, probably, you know, handful of people that are in my Instagram circle who are even further left than me and are so, so, so upset about what's going on in G. They were, you know, leading up to the election, like, posting a lot of things about, like, you know, you know, that the Democrats and Kamala Harris, like, don't vote for her because she's just as complicit in all of this. And, like, oh, the left is okay with genocide is basically what the line was. And, you know, like, I understand. I really, truly understand where that is coming from. You are in slow motion watching something really, really, really terrible happen across months and just. And just thousands of people losing their lives. And you're here in the United States and you feel like there's something somebody can do. And I feel. I feel helpless to do anything. So all I can do is try to express this as much as possible on Instagram. I understand that one. You know, to varying degrees of annoyances. Because I was telling you, I have one friend who is, like. Who would sort of, like, kind of say that type of stuff, but also in a very, very unendeering way, I would say in a very condescending, like, I'm talking to you little babies out there who are not as enlightened as I am on these issues. And, you know, I don't mind the sentiment. I sort of didn't like this one person sort of tone when it came to all this stuff. That's very preachy, this very I know better than thou and I am better than thou vibe from this person. And then I saw that this person posted something yesterday about how terrible life is going to be for trans people under the Trump administration. And I'm just like, yeah, because it's not just one issue that we vote for. And I just. There was something so. And. And by the way this person comes by, honestly, I'm not trying to. I want to be very clear here. And just for my own sake, just to be honest about this person, I don't think that their points are wrong on either of these issues. I didn't really appreciate the tone of the post about it. And I happen to know that trans issues have touched this person's life. I think there are people in their life who are trans. So I'm not trying to diminish that, but I'm just saying that how could you have just spent the last, like, two months just, like, brow beating us and saying there's no difference and don't even bother voting, or certainly don't vote for Kamala Harris and then start. Because it's like, yes, there. There are terrible things going on in the world, some of which are not addressed enough by one candidate, but could have stemmed the tide of other terrible things that are happening in the world. I was just so I just couldn't believe that she was posting about that. I don't know.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah.

[Andrew Walsh]

Did that make sense? I feel like I was not very.

[Luke Burbank]

I hear you. And that's. I think that's going to be. That's sort of the tension. I was thinking about that in looking at some of the. I love it. I'm like, this is going to be a fun show where we don't talk about turnout in Dearborn, Michigan.

[Andrew Walsh]

We don't talk about.

[Luke Burbank]

Uncommitted at the top of the ticket at Dearborn, Michigan. You know, by the way, this is me not engaged with the content and I could tell you about movement in terms of the vote in Dearborn, Michigan. So apparently it's not going great.

[Andrew Walsh]

But have you learned piano yet?

[Luke Burbank]

The second that friggin thing gets here, everything changes for me, Andrew. But anyway, I guess my point is it is going to be messy going forward and there is going to be frustration and there's going to be a lot of the temptation will be to try to scapegoat decisions that were made and groups of people. And I don't think that's the answer right now. Anyway, this was made very clear and much more eloquently on today's episode of why is this Happening with Chris Hayes? Where he also mentions us by name.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh yeah, that was the point of your story before I went on Mike.

[Luke Burbank]

And we're already getting people reaching. People reaching out. As I said to Chris this morning, I think being Chris Hayes adjacent is the biggest flex for this show.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yes, definitely. In fact. That's right. Do we have new listeners right now? We should have really started. Well, let's get to those numbers in Dearborn, Michigan.

[Luke Burbank]

Let's leave. Exactly. We got a Super serve those P1s. That's right. Let's super serve this P1. That would be me by telling me how it's going with your furnace.

[Andrew Walsh]

Okay. Yeah. You know, I think it was on Friday that I talked about the fact that my furnace was acting up. I will try to recap as quickly as possible. I have an old thermostat upstairs, like an old Honeywell thermostat that had dogged me ever since we lived here. I just hated the design of it and how it works and everything. But, you know, we got by. My father had gotten me. I don't. Why did I just call him my father? Dear Father, thank you for the familiar. My dad had, was kind of upgrading his like, kind of. I guess you'd call it kind of heart smart home stuff. I think his security and various sort of, like, interactive appliances he has around the house that really makes it sound like he lives in the Jetsons. I just think he got some new ring doorbells or something. And so he got rid of his old Google ones. And so he sent me his Google Nest thermostat, like, a year ago. And I was supposed to install it myself because everybod says they're relatively easy to install. But I kept on dragging my feet on doing that for various reasons. One reason being that I was kind of nervous about, like, if I try to do this during the cold months and I rip out the old thermostat and can't install the new one, what will that evening be like until I can get somebody out here to fix my mess? So I'd been kind of dragging my feet on installing that thing anyway. And then coincidentally and unrelated to that, our furnace started acting up last week and to the point where it wasn't heating the house consistently sort of of come and go. And some listeners heard me describe how the furnace was acting and just absolutely pinpointed exactly what the problem was. We had a guy come out on Friday. Wonderful. By the way, I sent you this guy's profile.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, a lot of detail on Mike.

[Andrew Walsh]

This is so great. So a lot of these businesses that will send a service person to your house now will have an automated system that let you know, hey, the service person is leaving the last job and is now headed to your place. It's actually really good if you're, for example, here, we don't have a doorbell right now. And my office is in the basement, so I don't hear somebody knocking on the door. It's good to get these text messages. And this company. And I know that I've seen this with another company at least once before. Maybe somebody delivering our washer and dryer. They send a little profile of the person who's coming to your house. And I'm sure it starts with a safety thing. It's like, you know, our service person in this case, his name was Mikey or Michael. Mikey is coming to your house. He'll be there in about a half hour. But it also came with, like, a little almost a baseball card of for Mikey. It said that he enjoyed when he's not like fixing furnaces. He enjoys making music and producing music. And his favorite movie is. What was it?

[Luke Burbank]

The Truman Show.

[Andrew Walsh]

His favorite movie is the Truman Show. And then it had one other little dazzle. And then his favorite part about working. And I'll just say the name of the company is Seatown. I highly recommend it. It was a great experience. His favorite part about working for seatown is the free coffee, of course. And I was just like, wow, this is like, we're getting a lot of information before meeting.

[Luke Burbank]

I love this, by the way. I would just feel just so much better about the. Like, this must have allayed some amount of your anxiety before even meeting this guy, because you were. I was trying to tell you that you should bring up the nest replacement thing first. You were planning on bringing it up later almost kind of as a last thing after he had diagnosed the furnace. Just this picture of this guy. He just looks so friendly. Yes, he looks knowledgeable. And we know that he loves the Truman show and free coffee. I mean, that's a wealth of information.

[Andrew Walsh]

And makes and makes his own music. And I'm not gonna totally dox him here, But I. Well, I'll tell you, first of all, Mikey is the best. Mikey is the best. He even said, like, if you ever got. If you guys need anything else, you call the company. You can ask for me. I'll be out here. He came out here. He immediately became friends with Bingo the cat. He was taking photos of Bingo playing with the wires because Bingo was trying to help him fix the furnace. He came out, he diagnosed it immediately, and the diagnosis was what some listeners had pinpointed. As I mentioned before, it was an issue with the sensor. One thing we learned is that our furnace really is too old and probably will need to be replaced in the next year or so. But luckily, it didn't have to happen in an emergency situation. Right there, he cleaned a sensor. Basically, there are these safety sensors on there that if they're not reading the situation correctly, they think that gas is being released without a flame connected to it, which would obviously.

[Luke Burbank]

Usually. That's just you.

[Andrew Walsh]

Thank you. He installed one of these sensors on me, actually.

[Luke Burbank]

Great balls of fire.

[Andrew Walsh]

Save it for the email roundup. But, yeah, he. He came out and he met. He. You know, so basically, I like the fact that I understand it, that it wasn't just a sensor, But I understand that basically, even though the furnace was shooting out flame the way it's supposed to, the sensor was mistaken about that. The sensor didn't detect the flame. And the sensors there, in case this. The machine really isn't sending out flame. That would be a bad situation if you're just releasing a whole bunch of gas into your house. Only one of us. This house isn't big enough for the two of us. Furnace. So anyway, he it was a really quick fix. But then I also, you know, right away did say as a secondary thing, I was hoping to install this thermostat. I don't know if that's something you could do on the fly as well. He said, okay, let's look at the furnace first. And then he said, the one thing about these types of thermostats, these new ones, there are sort of three wire systems. And I can tell by looking at your furnace that you kind of have a two wire system set up right now. And I don't know exactly what that means, but he cleaned the sensor, he fixed the furnace. He looked closer at the thermostat situation and said, hey, look, this third wire is just sort of hanging here. Like, one thing about our house is whoever did all the work on, like, I shouldn't even say this because the listeners are going to freak out. Like, turns out our thermos is not. Or I'm sorry, our furnace is not grounded, which is something we have to look at. There are some tubes in there that are not up to code that you're not supposed use inside of a gas furnace that we're gonna have to maybe potentially look at getting replaced or just replace the whole damn thing. But let's just say that whoever had worked on this was not somebody who had the attention to detail that our best friend Mikey had. But Mikey looks at the, at the situation.

[Luke Burbank]

That person hated free coffee, hated free.

[Andrew Walsh]

Coffee, and really did not appreciate the Truman Show. Described it as uneven. But anyway, what I liked about this was he said, oh, look, there is this third wire here. It's just not installed. So I can run some extra wiring to make this thermostat work for you and then install it for you. And so what I liked about this was I had been sort of beating myself up for procrastinating and not doing this job myself. But what I learned was I really wouldn't have been able to do it myself. I would have pulled the thermostat off the wall upstairs. I would have been confused by the wire situation. It wouldn't have worked. I wouldn't have known why. I would have been screwed.

[Luke Burbank]

And it turns out the exact nightmare scenario would have played out exactly. Hole in your wall with wires coming out and you don't know how to fix it.

[Andrew Walsh]

Exactly. Now it is installed because Mikey installed it. He did it the right way. He let us know some other things to look at in our house that we might want to keep an eye on for various safety reasons and things we'll probably need to replace at some point, but didn't go on a hard sell with us at all. Mikey is the best. I did not ask him about the Truman Show. I did ask him about his band. I won't say it here, although maybe they want the publicity, but I don't want to totally dox this guy. I was listening to some of his music in my headphones so that. Not so loud that he could hear.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, while he's working, studying up.

[Andrew Walsh]

I'll tell you what. I. I'd asked him about it because I'd shared his baseball card with my text chain. And they're like, asking him about his band. I'm like, okay. So I asked him about his band. And then I came in here. 1. I came in here to listen to it on Spotify. And then he came in. He kind of poked his head into my office. Now, I had headphones on, but I felt like Mikey had caught me watching porn. Like, I was just like, I'm just. I'm just. I'm watching baseball. Watching baseball, Mikey. As I ripped my headphones off. But anyway, all of that is to.

[Luke Burbank]

Say he checks his phone. Didn't the World Series end three weeks ago, sir?

[Andrew Walsh]

It's called the Hot Stove League, Mikey. But anyway, all that is to say, I am so happy right now. I was texting my dad this week, and it's one of those things where it's like. I shouldn't make it sound like it's a small gift. It's not a small gift. This new thermostat, this new. I don't know how much it would retail for, but it is such a huge change in our lives. First of all, just know, knowing that the. Like, I described this feeling to Genevieve in this way, and I don't know if it'll totally make sense to you, but we moved into this house. I love where we live. There's a lot to love about this place. But I also knew that there are some immediate things that we didn't want to take care of. There are some things on the long list of projects that we'll take care of over the coming years. There are some things that drive me bananas. And then there are some things that I kind of, like, just don't think about. Like, I can't remember how old the hot water heater is, but I know that when you should replace those before they go out, because there's a big mess. But I never. But I kind of don't want to think about that right now. When I was booking People to fix the furnace. They were asking me how old it is. I'm like, honestly, I don't know. We just moved in here, but now somebody has come out. They've looked at the furnace. They told us all of the warning signs to look out for. They got it working for now. They explained this. They also looked at the water heater, gave us some updates. And I told Genevieve, it's almost like when you're playing a video game that's sort of a map. This is probably unrelatable to you, Luke, but sometimes you'll be playing a video game that sort of has a map, but then you. Then you open up a section of the map by achieving something, and now you can sort of see it. I sort of feel like there was this, like, this steam. I call this area sort of like the steam room of our basement. You know, it's got the furnace and the hot water heater in there. And I was just kind of like, I was always looking in there and being like, I don't really know what's going on in there, and one of these days, I'm going to have to. But I don't know. And now I sort of feel like that part of the map has been revealed a little bit. Like, I understand what's going on in there a little bit better. And. And as I told you, sitting here moments before we started the show, I was like, ooh, I turned the thermostat up too hot. It's a little bit warm in here. And I actually bemoaned that fact until I remembered I can just open this app on my phone and turn it down to 67, which I just did. It is I'm controlling the thermostat from my phone anywhere in the house at any moment. It is so great.

[Luke Burbank]

That is very, very gratifying. I like that you were treating the steam room like your actual cardiovascular system, asking very few questions, knowing things are probably not great, but not wanting to really dig too deeply into the situation.

[Andrew Walsh]

It's exactly like my heart. Exactly like that. Yes.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, it's nothing as exciting as being able to control the heating and ventilation in your home at just the touch of a button. But I did have success yesterday, I think, Andrew, with IKEA taking the MALM back to from whence it came and the guys showed up, they were very nice. You're talking about, like, the new technology around, kind of like letting people know how many stops away you are. I really like that. That's a real improvement in our quality of life as far as the customers go. Because same thing yesterday, I was like, I needed to be here for the guys. And they texted me like, we're five stops away, we're three stops away. Okay, we're going to be there in 15 minutes. And when they showed up, there were two very nice guys, appeared to maybe originally be from Central America. And I said, I prefaced the guy. I was like, I just want to let you know that it's partially assembled and then partially disassembled and in these boxes. And he just looked at me and I think what it was, was maybe just a language barrier.

[Andrew Walsh]

I didn't realize it was partially unassembled. I thought the whole thing was assembled. But you had to disassemble it to get it out of the closet again.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, in taking it out of the closet, it started to kind of disintegrate. Like it started to come un. You know, it started to come detached from itself.

[Andrew Walsh]

I see. I thought it was banged up. I didn't realize that it's like pieces were falling off of it.

[Luke Burbank]

Pieces were falling off. And I wanted it to look less jacked up. So I unscrewed a few of those pieces. I put them in box. I wanted it to. I wanted it to seem as legit as possible because I want to get my money back and I wanted them to take it away. But when I told the guy, I was like, it's. It's like half assembled and half in boxes. And he just looked at me, which again, I think this was more just maybe a language barrier. But I read it to be him being like, absolutely not, sir.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah. And.

[Luke Burbank]

And it was like the longest, what felt like the longest, most pregnant pause. And then he just went like, sure, that's fine.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

And they came in and then they put a sticker on everything so that it was all, you know, each section was. Had a sticker on it so that later on it could all be kind of cross referenced. I still don't know what's going to happen when this thing. I mean, I'm sure it's back there now when it gets to the IKEA warehouse. There is literally no usefulness for this, like all of the lore model. God, no. No one would buy this, mom, if they saw this version of it. It's like it's so jacked up and like. And when I was talking to the woman on the phone. Oh, that was the other thing I said, it's partially assembled and partially in a box. And the guy looked at me and then I immediately went, the lady on the phone said it was okay.

[Andrew Walsh]

Your boss said it's okay.

[Luke Burbank]

I literally was like, the lady on the phone said it was okay. Like, I was already. I was like, halfway into my defense or whatever you want to call it, my prepared remarks on the topic. And the guy, again, I think he just didn't speak a ton of English. I don't think he gave half of a shit about this. Was just like, you know, But I was. I was probably misreading the situation, but. But, yeah, I don't know what is. I will be. So the next phase is waiting for the refund to hit my card. Yes, that's going to be. That's going to be the true question when it gets back to, you know, home base for them and then someone starts going through. Oh, the thing I was going to say is the woman on the phone said, if you have hardware, just put it in, like a Ziploc bag or something. You know, that's the whole thing with this IKEA stuff is it's. There's so many little bolts and little whatever, pieces of hardware. And I did. I put it all back in a. In a plastic bag. But I was like, who is going to sort through this? Who is going to check that it's the right number of bolts that it came with? Like. Like, I assume that. I mean, again, I don't feel good about that.

[Andrew Walsh]

I actually have a theory on that. I actually have a theory on that, especially related to IKEA stuff, because I have a few IKEA things still in my house, and one of them I'm looking at right now. I'm laughing because it's a big. It's like three CD towers that sort of attach to each other. I remember buying this and having to go into an ikea. This is when we're living in Los Angeles and like, literally saying to a very young person, like, I'm looking for something to keep. Keep CDs in. And sort of like saying CDs in this way, like, if he knew what CDs are, you know, because this is sort of antiquated technology, obviously, but, like, I was missing a few little pins and pokers to hold the shelves up. I don't know. So I remember either through ordering it or going back to the store, I had to get more of those things. I'll bet you there are people who, when things are returned, just pull all of the hardware and just put them into big bins that can be used later. That would make total sense to me.

[Luke Burbank]

That would make me feel a little better because where I was starting to go with this is my lack of measuring and thinking through my. Basically my haste, which is one of my worst qualities and most pronounced qualities. My. In my haste of ordering this thing without fully thinking through, would it fit in this closet, has now created something that will be in a landfill, you know, sooner rather than later. Like that thing was going to be in a land, that Malm was going to be in a landfill. But instead of being in a landfill in 20 years or 15 years, it's now going to the land and feel like tomorrow. And that's due to me. So at least if some of the hardware gets a second life, at least that would feel like some kind of a small benefit to the whole thing.

[Andrew Walsh]

Well, I don't. I don't know if this makes you feel better or not, but just so you know, I have a running list of some of your worst qualities, and haste is nowhere near the top, honestly, so. Really? Yeah. Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, that does make me feel better.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah. No haste. Honestly, I didn't even occur to me to put haste on the list. It's a pretty. It's a pretty populated list.

[Luke Burbank]

All right. All right.

[Andrew Walsh]

Thank you for being a tale.

[Luke Burbank]

You know who does love me and is not keeping a list of my worst qualities? The donors. Andrew.

[Andrew Walsh]

That's right.

[Luke Burbank]

We assume folks like Zachary Rouse out there in Jackson Heights, Queens, New York City.

[Andrew Walsh]

I think when Zach emails in does. Well, I'm making an assumption here. He signs his name Zach. Right. Do we have to? I do believe that he is a Zach. Yeah. Thank you. Zach back.

[Luke Burbank]

Thank you. We really appreciate you. Thanks also to Stephen Gardner, who's in Port Orchard, Washington.

[Andrew Walsh]

Thank you. I feel like with a last name like Gardner, Port Orchard is a great place to be.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, he seems like Stephen is in exactly the right place. Diane Sibert is in Chehalis, Washington.

[Andrew Walsh]

Nice.

[Luke Burbank]

Not. Not far from me, not far from here. Just, I don't know, half hour up the road, not too far from, let's see, Winlock, Washington, home of the world's largest egg.

[Andrew Walsh]

Can I tell you something about Chehalis that is, again, probably unrelatable? So I get this makes no sense because I don't think the place. I don't. I don't know either of these places, but I don't think they're similar in any way. But I get Chehalis confused with the place where you and the boys and I did say that with a Z. You and the boys used to go on your summer vacations.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, Shalan.

[Andrew Walsh]

Chelan. Okay. So they are similar names. I get shah.

[Luke Burbank]

They both start with ch.

[Andrew Walsh]

And you guys call that Shelan again.

[Luke Burbank]

Shelanigans.

[Andrew Walsh]

And one time I think I said to Camaro, Kev, oh, where are you doing your Chehalis agains this year? And he's like my Chehalis again. And it took us a while to start speaking the same language again.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, Diane, this summer coming to a Chehalis near you. Luke, Camaro, Kev Dykstra, race and a rogues gallery of men who are far too old to be doing what they're doing. Coming to a Chehalis near you. Hey, look who it is. Alex Meyer in Seattle, Washington.

[Andrew Walsh]

Thank you, Alex.

[Luke Burbank]

My dear friend, Alex Meyer. For many, many years I've known Alex.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, from before tbtl. I recognize Alex listener. Oh, I didn't realize that. Nice. Thank you.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, I've known Alex since Alex was in high school.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh wow.

[Luke Burbank]

Alex did a radio show like in his basement when he was a teen.

[Andrew Walsh]

I remember you telling me.

[Luke Burbank]

And we became friends. And if I remember right, although again me thinking that I once parallel parked in front of Jake from State Farm, Andrew has really rocked my world. It's caught me questioning everything. But if I remember right, I do believe I put Alex in touch with old Ira Glass and they interviewed him for tal.

[Andrew Walsh]

Nice. That does ring a bell now. Thank you for donating.

[Luke Burbank]

Nice to see your name on the list again, Alex. Appreciate you. Also Michael Havens is in Tum Water, Washington. We're really.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

Over delivering on sort of the south sound. Thanks Michael. And then Craig Parsons is in Conover, North Carolina.

[Andrew Walsh]

Ah, that breaks the pattern. We needed somebody to that does that.

[Luke Burbank]

Goes way, way east and a bit south.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

Craig, hope you're doing well. I don't know where Conover is in relation to all that, that sort of terrible flooding and weather problems that went down recently, but hope you're doing all right. Craig, we really appreciate you. Thank you to all of our donors for making TBTL happen today.

[Andrew Walsh]

Hello and welcome to Top Story.

[Luke Burbank]

As mentioned at the top of the show, there is more Frankie Valley content than you could ever want happening here on tbtl. When we we thought that we were all done with this, I stumbled upon this story in the Washington Post by Jeff Edgers titled Frankie Valli Just can't Quit. He's become the subject of viral memes and jokes about lip syncing. But the 90 year old pop legend defends his live performances and his love of being on stage. And it's pretty clear that what happened was Frankie Valli or Frankie Valli's people agreed to do this interview in the Washington Post, but not really specifically about the lip syncing stuff, just about the sort of Frankie Valli's career and the fact that he's still out there performing at age 90. You know this because there's a paragraph on page two where this, this writer Jeff Edgers is talking about the lip syncing. The contra controversy is the wrong word, but basically all the kind of speculation and meme ification of it and everything. And it said he hadn't addressed the questions personally until a recent morning in Los Angeles. That's when Valli, after a charming discussion with the Washington Post about his decades as a performer and his love of music, grew quickly frustrated. When pressed to talk about the recent online attacks, he made clear that he's the one who decides whether to tour. For him, the stage remains central to his identity. As far as the performances itself, Valli would not even hint at the possibility that the flawless falsetto that flows over the speakers is anything but authentically live. No recording, no auto tune, nothing but Frankie and the energetic men in black ties who make up the umpteenth edition of the Four Seasons singers. The criticism, he says, is rooted in envy. I haven't had a problem, an audience problem for my whole life, Valley says, and if I can't make a note, I don't sing it.

[Andrew Walsh]

So can I address a couple of things here? Because one, one part of the story that you and I have not mentioned, I think recently when it's come up was it sounds like the first thing that Frankie Valley was addressing there. This idea of I don't go on tour unless I'm the one who decides to, was because there were some, there were some concerns or maybe even some reports or speculation that not only is he up there sort of lip syncing and looking a little bit, that you could interpret his look up there as being somewhat stunned by the lights.

[Luke Burbank]

The term elder abuse comes to mind, right?

[Andrew Walsh]

And some people were kind of like, is he, you know, is he being somewhat coerced to be out there? Or people. Does he have handlers? He have people in his life who are like, well, we don't make money unless Frankie's out there, so let's trot Frankie out again.

[Luke Burbank]

Go el sid on it.

[Andrew Walsh]

That's what he's trying to. That's what he's trying to like, sort of address there in that first statement. And secondly, I just want to point out, and again, I'm bummed that I did Not. Did not read this before. We're talking about it now. But as you present it to me, me, I think it's very interesting that the writer of this does something that you and I have been trying to do as we talk about it, which is upfront, show the due respect. Like, literally. Not. When you say with all due respect and then you burn the shit out of somebody. I mean, like, which is like, what.

[Luke Burbank]

You like to do with me. Talk about my list of flaws.

[Andrew Walsh]

The list interrupts. Okay. I feel like when we talk about the story, we really do not mean this in a disrespectful or ageist way. We just. It's a. An interesting phenomenon because he is up there. He is providing entertainment to a bunch of people who seem to really, really enjoy it. And that's good. But also. And this is where I think the story will go on. There's no way on Christ's earth that those sounds are coming from his body.

[Luke Burbank]

You're absolutely right. This reporter goes out of his way to talk about the fact that Frankie Valli is doing really great for being 90. His memory is still really good. He can recall sections of lyrics from his favorite songs and stuff. Like, he. By. By just about every measure, he's doing great for 90. And so that's the. That's made very clear. And also, yes, the question of, like, is Frankie Valli being foreshadowed on stage? Is answered in this article, and it's a definitive no. Frankie Valli is in charge of Frankie Valli and he loves performing, which also is a big part of this article. What's interesting to me is, like, the sort of lengths that the Washington Post goes to to prove that he's lip syncing. They brought in the AV squad for this, Andrew. They took, I think it's seven different performances. They literally got taped. Like, this was not necessary. You look at. You look at the video and you know that Frankie Valli is lip syncing. It's. And he, you know, it's like, you know, an older. It's like George Burns wearing a toupee. It's like, he didn't.

[Andrew Walsh]

You don't need to bring a hair analysis expert.

[Luke Burbank]

Exactly. You don't. Like. It's like, okay, the guy's 90. He's lip syncing. He doesn't want to admit it, whatever. But, like, the levels that they go to to just totally bust him is just kind of crazy to me. They take seven different performances of this particular song, and then they overlay them and they note that the vocals are absolutely Frankie Valli's vocals perfectly in time and perfectly on the same. Both the same time signature. And the notes are hit perfectly as you can hear the live band coming in and out of time with the different versions. The point being, if you do something seven times, it's always going to be a little different. You cannot. Unless you're playing a recording. It cannot be. I'm just going to play you some of the audio. This is seven different performances, I believe, of Frankie Valli where the vocals remain absolutely unchanged. Hear the band getting out of time.

[Andrew Walsh]

So they're picking up where the recording ends, basically.

[Luke Burbank]

No, that's. That's the same song. But what you're hearing at the end, that weird kind of brown note is the variation in the live band between the seven different performances.

[Andrew Walsh]

I see if that makes sense because.

[Luke Burbank]

Those are live musicians playing their instruments and they're never gonna like. The only thing that is completely microscopically unchanged in those seven different versions is Frankie Valli's vocal. And they basically say in the piece there's the only way that this could happen would be because it's a recording.

[Andrew Walsh]

Uh huh. Right now I gotcha. Yes.

[Luke Burbank]

But again, Jeff doesn't stop there. He goes and starts interviewing people in Frankie Valli's life to find out if they think he's lip syncing. And turns out a guy named Jamie Kim is a pretty good soldier. He's the guitarist who was in Valley's touring band a few years ago. This is Jamie Kim's comment on the thing. You go see Pink in concert and she's swinging upside down on a rope and the vocals are perfect. Feels like what about ism? To me, it really does. But the JB K who was, as I said, a guitarist in Valley's touring band a few years ago and admits that he had no idea whether his boss was singing live. Really? Jamie.

[Andrew Walsh]

So for some reason he doesn't even stand up and say he definitely is. He's just.

[Luke Burbank]

I don't know, a tone. Why do I think this guy looks exactly like Silvio from Hey, I don't Tone, you know, or Paulie Walnuts Marone. I don't know if he's singing or not. Like, come on. You don't know if he's singing. You've been on stage with this guy. You're a professional musician. Jamie Kaim. So the reporter doesn't get a definitive answer from Jamie. So he continues ever forward and for some reason and then is able to get ahold of a keyboardist named Lee Shapiro, a member of the four seasons during the 1970s, who still talks to Valley regularly. And he says, frankly, he does lip sync. Not all the time, but at 90 years old, if you're destroyed and you've got a concert you've got to do, what are you going to do? It's ridiculous to make an issue if the show's entertaining and you got your money's worth and you saw the big star that you wanted to see. So that's what Lee Shapiro says, which should have.

[Andrew Walsh]

That should always be the argument. And did you say this is the Post? Right. The Post would not do this whole investigation if they were just honest about this point. You know what I mean? Like, nobody's looking to take down Frankie Valley. Like, there's no reason to take him down. It's just that, well, as you say, democracy dies in darkness.

[Luke Burbank]

Yes, they did decide for the first time ever to not endorse Frankie Valley. You knew where I was going with that.

[Andrew Walsh]

Well, I was. Yeah, I was. I'm trying to figure, as I said, democracy dies in darkness. I was trying to figure out my own Bezos related joke there. But, yeah. So anyway, like, the reason is. It's like, don't, don't. Well, I'm going to. I already, I think, kind of swore earlier. So I'll just say, like, don't piss on my head and tell me it's raining. You know, they mean, like. Right. The answer is yes, we come out because this is entertainment. And I also love the fact that the one person used Pink as an example, and no offense to Pink either, but of all of the pop stars out there who are doing huge stage performances, I wonder, did this person or this person's niece just go to a Pink show? Why was Pink the person who had to be the example here? But there's all kinds of performers, all kinds of pop performers who are doing just ridiculously athletic dances and things on stage. And it's pretty clear that they're probably not singing at least every single part, because they would be totally out of breath. And I'm sure there's a whole spectrum of people who never lip sync to those who lip sync huge chunks of their show. But I don't think that, like, you know, you might. Well, I was going to say demure. I don't know if I'm using that word correctly. And now I'm scared you're going to play the drop. But you might. You might sort of just like not answer the question directly.

[Luke Burbank]

That's one of your biggest fears. Your life is going pretty Well, I.

[Andrew Walsh]

Didn'T say it's one of my biggest fears. I just said it's a fear. I love it when one time I remember my aunt said this a long time ago, somebody said like, well, if that's his worst fault. And she was just like, I didn't say it was his worst fault. I'm just saying it was one of the problems with this guy. But anyway, yeah, it's just like kind of like, stop, Stop lying about it. Just that that's the right answer. Yes, there is some lip syncing involved. It's called entertainment and we're entertaining people.

[Luke Burbank]

They do interview various fans who kind of, you know, bring different perspectives to whether or not they care if he's lip syncing. Roseanne KINLEY recently, age 63, a South Carolina fan who saw Valley in 1975 for the first time and recently went online to defend him, said, I don't care if he's lip syncing. Yeah, I love his energy, she says. I love his karma. I don't know. That's exactly. I don't know if that word means what you think it means, but okay. I love the fact that he loves what he does. So he's 90 years old. He still loves to do it and it shows when he's on stage. But Andrew, not everyone feels that way. Robin and Gary Rosenthal went to see Valley in the Four Seasons at the Music center in Strathmore in Bethesda, Maryland, in 2014. Even then, 10 years ago, Robin thought Valley was lip syncing. She felt lied to. If you are going to see a hologram concert, you know what you're going to see. She says, by the way, what a life Robin leads. She's going to hologram concerts.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, right. Well, I mean, nobody accuses.

[Luke Burbank]

Sign me up.

[Andrew Walsh]

He's not a hologram. He's still a real person.

[Luke Burbank]

Thinking of Tupac, right?

[Andrew Walsh]

Well, people confuse him and Frankie Talio all the time. I can see that.

[Luke Burbank]

If you go see Frankie Valli, you expect to hear him singing. I don't go to see his face and his body. I don't need to look at him. Okay. Robin, sort of all over the map.

[Andrew Walsh]

Is coming on strong.

[Luke Burbank]

But this is where again, I just. This article just kept going. The lead singer of Heart, Ann Wilson, who is a longtime critic of artists who use technology to mask vocal limitations, watched a clip of a show provided by the Post. Jeff, we know it was you saying Valley recently sat down with the Washington Post and Wilson from Hart was recently provided a clip of Frankie Valli by the Post it.

[Andrew Walsh]

You.

[Luke Burbank]

You were the one who did it. Here's the quote from Ann Wilson watching Frankie Valli. Oh, my God. She says his face is completely still. Yeah, he looks like he's not even there. I suppose he's not. So now we've got Ann Wilson officially on the record, horrified at Frankie Valli.

[Andrew Walsh]

Well, and this I understand. You told me about this story one day on tbtl and I. And I remember kind of feeling like, oh, okay, yeah, this is something I'm unfamiliar with. And then later that day, while probably looking for an image to illustrate our website for this, I went and I found the videos. And it did not hit me until I actually saw the video itself. And I will say there was some Ann Wilson in my response, like, oh, my God, now I get it. So for people who don't, like, quite get what we're talking about, it is something to see. You have these very. As you said before. What did you say? Vibrant. I can't remember how you described the backup singers the other new three seasons. And then he does. It is odd. And again, I don't want to take it away from anybody who enjoys his shows, which sounds like they're our legion, but it is an odd look of him staring out and barely moving his face while these really long, extended, high pitched vocals are being broadcast.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, it also seems to me that it is not out of the realm of possibility that Frankie Valley and Ann Wilson will cross paths at some point.

[Andrew Walsh]

That's true. It's gonna be an awkward Thanksgiving.

[Luke Burbank]

I mean, seriously. And then, okay, Ann Wilson horrified at Frankie Valley's performance. It doesn't stop there. Andrew Graham Nash, who still tours and records at 82, said he was offended by Valley's performance.

[Andrew Walsh]

Now, okay, you know what? I was gonna say, why Graham Nash? But maybe it is interesting because if. If Frankie Valli is 90 and Graham.

[Luke Burbank]

Nash is 82 and Ann Wilson is 74. So he was trying to go, I guess, find people that are also, you know, kind of getting up there.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah. And I'm guessing that there's a pretty big difference between 82 and 90 as far as being able to, you know, sing certain notes or whatever. I'm pretty, you know, out of my. Out of my depths here as far as this topic is concerned, but I actually kind of appreciate that. Well, let's talk to other people of, if not the same generation, at least, like, kind of closing in on that. Adrian.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah. Graham Nash says he was offended by Valley's performance. Frankie Valli is not singing. He says he's just lip syncing badly to a tape. As a musician, if you're not singing, you shouldn't be on stage.

[Andrew Walsh]

So he calls it a tape. I love that.

[Luke Burbank]

But like, so you've now got Graham Nash and Ann Wilson officially on the record as anti Frankie Valley.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, yeah. They're not going to be forming a super group with him anytime soon, probably.

[Luke Burbank]

I mean, again, again, I enjoyed reading this article, but I just, I mean, it goes on, by the way, for many more pages that I will, I will skip for in the interest of time here. But this is a very thoroughly reported piece about something that very much doesn't matter.

[Andrew Walsh]

That really doesn't matter. Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

And that's our specialty, Andrew. Yeah, I feel like Jeff Edgers is really, really horning in on our action.

[Andrew Walsh]

Well, we need it. We need real reporters to do the legwork and then we can. And then we can talk about on the show because we don't have the budget to be doing that investigation ourselves. But. Yeah, but again, I would just sort of say that, like the Post does not go as hard on this part of the story, except for the fact that people are just lying to their face and there's something about that. We were like, well, don't, you know, again, like I, I'm seeing what I'm seeing. To use your two don't normalize Frankie.

[Luke Burbank]

Valley lying about if he's singing or not. Right.

[Andrew Walsh]

Here I go once again with the email. Every week I hope that it's from a female. Oh, man, it's not from a female.

[Luke Burbank]

I have an email from listener Dan. Well, it was a link that Dan sent us from.

[Andrew Walsh]

As Dan signs his email. Dan in Poor Man Seattle, AKA Federal Way. Never heard it described. Federal Way described as poor man Seattle.

[Luke Burbank]

Federal Way is a lovely place we were talking about the other day because it is, I think, technically the home of wild waves.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, that's right. Yeah. And I've passed through Federal Way before. I haven't spent any quality time there before. But don't be, don't be down on Federal.

[Luke Burbank]

I was once stuck guarding Mike Dickerson who played basketball for Federal Way and then the Arizona Wildcats and then in the National Basketball Association. And the idea that I was guarding Mike Dickerson for any period of time is a laughable scenario.

[Andrew Walsh]

Is he a name now that, like, if anybody kind of follows basketball from that era, they know that name or it's a name that stands out to you because of your connection to it?

[Luke Burbank]

I was definitely much more aware of him than the average fan because he's one of the few people that I like played against who actually, that was a. Believe it or not, in that league, the Metro League that Nathan Hale was in, there were a. There were a number of players who actually ended up going pro. Jason Terry, Jason the Jet. Terry had a really long career, and Nate Robinson, I think, was younger than me. And then, of course, Jamal Crawford. So there was, like, a real bumper crop of, like, pros coming out of.

[Andrew Walsh]

Seattle in a certain way. They had to get through you first. Well, that was the thing. Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

I honestly was a huge confidence boost in that boys and girls club summer league. I didn't even make it into the. Like, I quit the team before even the real season started, but I would. I played with the team for, like, summer league and stuff like that, and somehow there was some. I mean, I was not supposed to be guarding him, but there was some play where I got switched off on him and just. I think he just did like a. What? Like a drop step and then just rose up and dunked on my head so hard.

[Andrew Walsh]

Hey. The road to the NBA runs through Luke Burbank. That's all I know. It sure does.

[Luke Burbank]

It sure does. Anyway, Dan sent this little link in about a rental car situation. Hertz fires back at manager who charged customer $10,000 for 25,000 mile driven on an unlimited mileage contract. A Hertz customer claims he was charged $10,000 after driving 25,000 miles in a month, which is. I mean, they did the math on it. He had to drive, like, 800 miles a day to do this.

[Andrew Walsh]

I tell you, I think recently Genevieve pointed out to me that we've had our car since, like, 2017 or 2018, and we're at like, 35,000 or maybe. Maybe 40,000 miles.

[Luke Burbank]

I'm surprised it's that high considering how much you loathe piloting your car in the city.

[Andrew Walsh]

Well, we did take a trip to the Grand Canyon and back, so that helped.

[Luke Burbank]

That's not true. I feel like I misdescribe you as, like, you don't hate driving.

[Andrew Walsh]

I actually don't. Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

I love public transportation.

[Andrew Walsh]

I didn't want to. I didn't want to, like, get. I didn't want to get butthurt about that. Like, there are people who are kind of like, I can't drive in the city. Seattle's a scary city to drive. I really don't have that issue. I just like the freedom of not having to worry about, oh, am I going to park here or do this? I, like, just. Just like, you Know, letting, letting the systems take me where I need to go.

[Luke Burbank]

But anyway, yeah, you can love public transportation and you can enjoy driving your vehicle. Those are, you know, we are complex. We are fearfully and wonderfully made. Andrew Multitudes, as I learned at Bible study as a kid. Here's the thing about this story. I watched this guy's video. It was posted on Tick Tock. It's like the only video he has on Tick Tock. And I'm kind of wondering if he's now there. He doesn't have any other videos. But my, my spidey sense started tingling thinking this was a bit like this was a thing to get attention. Because I cannot imagine a universe in which anyone is driving 25,000 miles in a month for funsies. Like, that's a commitment. That is basically like trying to basically provoke a situation where you can then put a video up. Now the thing is this guy doesn't have, like there are guys that their whole thing is basically pranks and going up to people in Home Depot and, you know, being weird to them or whatever. Like, this guy doesn't have a whole bunch of videos doing this. This is his only video. So I don't know exactly his story, but the, the idea of driving 25, they point out that that would be like 17 hours a day. Like that just sounds miserable.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

Driving 17 hours a day for 30 days.

[Andrew Walsh]

Does it say what kind of car this was? Not that it matters.

[Luke Burbank]

No, that's actually a really good question.

[Andrew Walsh]

Because like, if it was a bigger vehicle and you're like, you have some friends and you go on some sort of crazy road trip and you're swap around. But if it's like a small sedan. Well, let's say if it's a, if it's a 2018 Volkswagen Golf, I can tell you from experience that 17 hours a day is not going to be super comfortable.

[Luke Burbank]

This, this guy who goes under the name life is fun 3000 on tick.

[Andrew Walsh]

Tock, I'm life is fun 29.

[Luke Burbank]

He questions the manager because the manager says it's $10,000 even though he had signed up for the unlimited mileage thing. And the manager says to him in the video, unlimited mileage actually means, quote, a reasonable amount. Initially, Logan, this guy promised an update, but as of this writing, I'm quoting, by the way, from this is Stephen Rivers writing on Car Scoop.com Basically, Hertz has weighed in on this and said that customer satisfaction is our top priority at Hertz. And we sincerely regret this customer's experience at one of Our franchise locations. Per the terms of the contract, the customer will not be billed for mileage. Our franchisee is addressing the employee's conduct and reinforcing our customer service standards. I'm actually kind of surprised that Hertz is coming down as hard on this. This franchisee and the custard or the person who worked there, because I don't know. Like, this does seem like this guy was kind of trying to, like, provoke a situation, right? Like, there's just no way that he was casually driving 25,000 miles in a month. Like, I kind of understand why this employee's head was spinning.

[Andrew Walsh]

Here's what I am a little bit confused about, and I think it might just be me not processing the information correctly. So if we can slow down for one second, because I'm trying to kind of read along with you as you. As you discuss this. The Hertz official statement is twofold. Number one, we are looking at action towards this franchisee because it broke our policy. But also, our policy is sort of an ish, as a friend of mine might say. Unlimited ish. Right. Oh, that's. Oh, I just noticed that. That's literally. I think that was in my head because that's what the illustration is on the car scoops thing. So, sorry, that must have buried itself. I'm stealing their joke. Although ish has been a big thing on TBTL recently. But, like, if, say, unlimited, but then they say, oh, well, it means reasonable. And then it's like, well, is reasonable. You have to draw a line somewhere because you can't just say. And so Hertz is both saying, this franchisee act inappropriately, acted inappropriately. But also, our policy has a gray area, but we don't state what that is. Like, I am kind of. I think that that is on them. Like, it's either unlimited or it's not. You call it something else. Call it Platinum. Platinum doesn't mean shit. Like, then say up to unlimited the drop. So anyway, that's where I am. This is where I am on this. I'm confused. They need to tighten this up and stop calling it unlimited.

[Luke Burbank]

Also, the thing that I don't understand about the car rental game is I didn't think that any of these cars specifically belonged to any of these locations. I say this as a person who has, thousands of times in my life, rented cars one way, in other words, picked it up somewhere and dropped it off somewhere else. And I thought the only way this can work is if, like, if you're a franchisee for Hertz, you pay whatever the fees are. And you just. It just means that you have access to this giant motor pool of vehicles that is in the Hertz organization. And sometimes someone's going to pull up to your Hertz with a car that came from across the country, and now that car is at your location, et cetera. I don't really understand why this guy. Guy, the person working for her, particularly cared about the 10,000 miles, or rather the 25,000 miles, because I didn't think it was their car.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, specifically their car.

[Luke Burbank]

Like, it's just in the Hertz system. It's going to be someone else's problem in two weeks.

[Andrew Walsh]

And do they know about the ishness of this whole thing? And were they looking at the fine print? This article mentions look for the fine print, but it doesn't say specifically what Hertz is fine print is. I don't think I was scanning it there. But like, it doesn't ever say, like, where in the policy there's some fine print that says, well, unlimited means up to blank number of miles. Like, you just feel like legally you have to have that in there. And I do think, and I'm looking here at the end of the article where all the good details often are, it does say that one of the things that apparently, I guess, sort of ticked off both the customer and the sort of Hertz headquarters is as the. As a franchisee gave him him the bill. He said, hurts Donut.

[Luke Burbank]

Sorry that was such a long climb for such a short slide.

[Andrew Walsh]

So bad. But that's where we are today.

[Luke Burbank]

Yes. And I think that's a fitting end to today's program.

[Andrew Walsh]

It might be a fitting end of.

[Luke Burbank]

The damn podcast show its entire existence.

[Andrew Walsh]

We'll see.

[Luke Burbank]

I'm going to apply for a producer position on why is this Happening with Chris Hayes.

[Andrew Walsh]

That's a good idea.

[Luke Burbank]

All right, thanks for listening, everybody. We're going to be back here tomorrow with more imaginary radio for you, so please do join us for that. In the meantime, have a great Tuesday. Take care of yourselves. Remember, it's the. What's the new phrase? I'm. I'm going to. I want to get it right here. No one is letting go of anyone's hand. Oh, yeah, just remember that, people. It's an important concept about this community and all the people that we love. Nobody's letting go of anybody's hand. So we'll see you tomorrow. Please remember, no mountain too tall.

[Andrew Walsh]

And good luck to all. Power out.