← TBTL: Too Beautiful To Live
TBTL: Too Beautiful To Live
#4397 A Boy named SuTab
01:27:03
Luke and Andrew chat with TV’s Chris Hayes backstage before his event at Town Hall Seattle. They discuss the important issues of the day: Luke’s colonoscopy and Chris’ imitation of Abraham Lincoln, and how cable TV began in Astoria,...
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- [00:00]
Luke Burbank
You've got your hands full of yo yos right now. You got, what, four yo yos per hand?
- [00:05]
Andrew Walsh
Right, right.
- [00:06]
Luke Burbank
And what I do is. It's called the Blue Flying Angel. Okay? You know what we do or I'll do is the kids. I'll get in the room and the kids will be running around and they'll be all excited. And so I try to start things off on their level and try to hook them with something like a wrap, okay? So it's. And it's kind of clever because it includes me, okay? And it goes, hey there, up in the sky. It's the K. Strauss, the yo yo guy. And then I do the yo yo yo, you know, And I get them going and I get them into it, okay? And so once I do that, they are ready to learn tbtl. I read poetry and sonnets, and he plays the upright bass. He sort of feels me out. I feel him out. In 1971, Bill Graetz invented Michael Soft. Wouldn't it be cool if I could remember my dingus password for my email?
- [01:14]
Chris Hayes
I have a beta sequence I've been working on. Would you like to see it? How can they say this about me? I don't believe it. I show them. I record everything.
- [01:27]
Luke Burbank
Well, all right. Hello, good morning, and welcome, everyone, to a Thursday edition of tbtl, the show that just might be too beautiful to live.
- [01:35]
Andrew Walsh
Meet the next generation of podcast stars.
- [01:37]
Luke Burbank
My name's Luke Burbank. I'm your host. I like turtles. Coming to you from the Madrona Hills studio perched high above the mighty Columbia, where. Oh, Ma Pa. It's just beautiful. Absolutely beautiful day here. Beautiful Thursday morning. So happy to be with all of you for episode 4000, 397 in a collector series.
- [01:58]
Andrew Walsh
Let the fun begin.
- [02:01]
Luke Burbank
It's been an interesting 24 hours. Not even 24 hours. Been an interesting, I don't know, 12 hours or so as I've been preparing for my colonoscopy, which is about now a couple hours away. And I will tell you, it didn't go the way that I expected it to go. And I'll tell you the story here from my point of view, it's a beautiful story. I love your story. Also, in possibly even more important developments for the show, we've got an interview with our friend televisions. And now the New York Times number one best seller in the nonfiction category, Mr. Chris Hayes. The guy is a nut bar. A nut bar. And then it wouldn't be a Thursday without a little blursday messages. My birthday today. We'll do that as well. Not before we introduce this guy. Longest running cobra of the show. Maybe best known for his depictions of the tall ships. You probably have some kind of idea what I've been doing around here at the Madrona Hill studio. A lot of it's a mystery what goes on at his place when we're not broadcasting slapjacking. He's Andrew Walsh and he's joining me right now. Good morning, my friend.
- [03:08]
Chris Hayes
So have you gone from brothman to, to soup? No. I guess broth man to water boy. Are you? Or broth boy to water man? What's going on? No more broth, just water.
- [03:18]
Luke Burbank
Well, so last night, starting actually all day yesterday, I believe. Yes, when I woke up, it was no solid food. The most sort of satisfying thing I could consume in terms of satiating my hunger would be broth. So I was having a lot of vegetable broth, accidentally bought the low sodium, which is just like, I mean, I know some people need that in their life and that's fine. But something low sodium vegetable broth feels like it's almost not a product anymore. Yeah, it's like what are we, what are we really consuming here? So then I added some sodium and I think I probably added far too much sodium. And then I was constantly trying to get the ratio right. Throughout the day. I took to microwaving a cup of broth, telling the microwave it was a, it was a mug of tea because it has a setting for that, and then drinking my broth. But then starting at some point last night, it was, I think I was maybe allowed to have broth throughout the night, but I literally just got tired of it. And at 6pm I had to take 1212 pills of something called Sutab, which is basically just the, I think slightly more convenient version of what people have done in previous generations where you mix this really foul tasting powder with all of this water. I actually paid $50 extra because of course Kaiser doesn't cover the, the less terrible stuff. So they were, they were willing to give me the, the powder stuff as part of my coverage. But if I wanted the Sutab or as I put it on the show sheet, a boy named Su Tab. Oh, I thought that was decent. Considering the caloric deficit I was in. I was pretty proud of that joke.
- [05:02]
Chris Hayes
No, that's really good. I was thinking immediately Su Tab. Sutab for what?
- [05:07]
Luke Burbank
A little rock side humor there also good. But anyway, so I, I got, I took 12 pills last night and I actually, I recorded it. I didn't, I Did not think, oh, you know what, let me just play you. This is not, this is not gross. I want to be clear. This is just, I realized I can actually do this from this computer. This is, I don't know what the level's going to be like. This is me recording myself on my phone, Andrew, right after I took these 12 pills. Okay. That it says in the directions are going to really kind of do a number on you. Well, it's 5:30ish West coast time and I just downed 12 tablets of something called Sutab and then drank a bunch of water. And now we play a waiting game. The instructions say that I will have to go to the bathroom very shortly after taking these 12 tablets. You know what this feels like? Like one of those like army films, like World War II, where they know the enemy is coming and all they can do is just kind of dig their foxhole down and set up their weapons and say a little prayer and just kind of wait. It's all quiet on the Western front right now, but it feels ominous. Like there's about to be a truly spectacular firefighter. But so far it's quiet. I'll check back in a little bit.
- [06:48]
Chris Hayes
Did you have a black and white photo of Becca?
- [06:50]
Luke Burbank
I did. Tucked into my bra. Yeah, I, I, I was, you know, I was sort of curious slash nervous, slash didn't know what to think about what this was going to do to my body. And I will say maybe this is just how my body reacted to it, Andrew, but I don't know, I'm a little worried I might be built different because it certainly allowed me to evacuate the situation. But there was, I didn't have any cramping. I was assuming it was going to feel like when you have, when your stomach is bothering you and you're kind of in that mode of like, I need to get right to a bathroom right now. And that's what I was worried about was that I was taking, I was knowingly taking something that was going to put me into an actually physically painful situation. And that's actually not sort of how it works or at least how it felt. To me it's more just that if you were to go in and use the bathroom over in a very short amount of time, the consistency of what is coming out of you changes pretty rapidly.
- [07:48]
Chris Hayes
But how many times my picture of this from other people talking about it is you take this stuff. Now, I don't know if the pills also maybe hit different part of the thing, but like, was it like, oh, yes. So I probably went to the bathroom, I don't know, 10 times over the course of eight hours or like what, what was the, like what was the consist not consistency of the, you know what I mean? What was the frequency? I mean frequency.
- [08:11]
Luke Burbank
Kenneth, can you please help me with this? I'm trying to tell the listeners, I would say that I. Here's the thing. Maybe I made seven trips to the bathroom but it wasn't because I was clutching my stomach.
- [08:26]
Chris Hayes
Yeah, you weren't running. And I was like, oh, I gotta go.
- [08:29]
Luke Burbank
Like there was never a near miss. There was never like if I don't get to the bathroom right now right here as I sit and talk to you. And by the way, I just took 12 more of them per the instructions at, at about 9:30 this morning. So it's. I, I'm a little worried that, I mean definitely again, I don't want to get too graphic but it's, We've, we've long, we've, we've long past departed from the, the realm of there being anything solid coming out of me. But now I'm just getting into really analyzing sort of shades, color shades because I think I was, I was under the impression that this, we wanted to be, I mean this wanted to be essentially gray water. This is the kind of water you could use, you know, for various things. It's non potable but it's, you know, it's pretty close to something that you could just like, you know, use around the house. That's my expectation. I didn't quite get there. It's definitely, it's definitely pretty close to that at this point. But it was, I guess I was expecting to have this because people were saying oh, Luke's not going to be able to record the show with Andrew. Like you know, we pre taped this thing with Chris which, which was actually awesome and I'm glad we're gonna get to play it. But we're building in all these contingent. I was saying I might have to be in the bathroom for this, Andrew. I might be on the telephone with you. And it's like none of that has been my experience.
- [09:44]
Chris Hayes
I think I had you like a balloon with the, the air coming out the bottom of it with you flying around the room.
- [09:50]
Luke Burbank
Well, that's the other thing. You know, I had to take this gas X which I'm a little, also a little worried about because it's the, the gas X that I bought unknowingly. It's like some kind of, they trying to make it like candy and I'm worried that I looked at the, at the label after I took half of it, which was, does it have red number five in it? Because you're not supposed to eat anything with red number five. It's just like they tell you in the directions. Take Gas X and then you buy gas X and then you're taking and you go like, well, shit, does that have red number five in it? Because generally speaking, they're trying to make it palatable for people. Also, you want to know how hungry I was this morning, Andrew?
- [10:24]
Chris Hayes
You were eyeing the Gas X, Dan.
- [10:26]
Luke Burbank
That's the best half of a Gas X tablet I've ever had in my life.
- [10:30]
Chris Hayes
Let me ask you. Chris asks you this in the tape that we're about to hear, but I don't think we really spend any time on it or get a direct answer because you are so hard to pin down on things. But.
- [10:40]
Luke Burbank
And very private, very private versus, you.
- [10:45]
Chris Hayes
Know, I think the casual listener, and maybe myself included, I consider myself a casual listener to your stories, would think that you're well suited for this because you've done so much fasting. You've done so much fasting. I've never, I've never done any kind of a cleanse or a fast. I don't think I've ever gone more than five minutes without eating a hamburger. So, like, I'm curious. Like, are you. Do you feel like you're a little bit more suited for this process than the, than the average, Andrew?
- [11:11]
Luke Burbank
Well, I'm worried that when I ate. I think I'm a little worried that I ate too much fiber, like four and a half days ago. Monday night I. First of all, I told you about those illicit peanuts that I ate a week ago because starting seven days out, you were not supposed to eat any peanuts. I did eat some peanuts on Thursday night. So that was my first transgression. Father, I have sinned. I have eaten peanuts from the gas station at the A Linnae Casino off of Aurora off of A I5. I get free gas there. The most expensive free gas you'll ever.
- [11:44]
Chris Hayes
Get in your life.
- [11:45]
Luke Burbank
But anyway, I. That. But I haven't. I haven't had anything. I haven't had anything prohibited since then. Except Monday night I steamed up a bunch of brown rice and some black beans, which I thought, well, this is a good, healthy meal, you know, nothing processed. And then I ate it. And then I don't know if we got into this on air or off air. Maybe this is.
- [12:06]
Chris Hayes
You've.
- [12:07]
Luke Burbank
You've spent a considerable amount of time with the Chris interview. So you would know. But like, part of what's been challenging about this for me is I've been getting mixed messages or not even mixed messages, but just like a cascade of different sort of lists of what I'm not supposed to consume or what I wasn't supposed to consume. And so the first list said, you know, a certain number of things, mostly seeds and nuts and stuff. I was like, okay. And then the next list was like, oh, also, you know, watch out for these dyes and things. And then the third one that I got from the website of Kaiser was like, oh, also you're supposed to be on a low fiber diet. You are supposed to be actually eating the exact opposite way of how doctors would recommend. In other words, white bread, acceptable, creamy peanut butter acceptable, but not things that have fiber in them, not things like black beans or brown rice. And so I had already consumed that on Monday night.
- [13:00]
Chris Hayes
I wonder why is that? Because you're early on and it's actually for your own comfort. Like they don't, they want more stick to the rib stuff early on to make the process better. I don't understand.
- [13:09]
Luke Burbank
It has to do with what fiber, Fiber stays in your body longer. Now fiber is ultimately good for you. It helps move things along and it helps kind of clean things out. If my, if I understand right, part of it is I don't know anything about fiber because I've never had a problem in the regularity department. And so how great is it that this is the lead into us introducing the number one bestselling author in America right now, New York Times bestseller, Chris Hayes. People have to wade through. They're like Andy Dufresne. They literally have to climb through a mile of shit to get to Z1 to NAHO. So I don't, I, so, so that was Monday night and I was like, ah, man, Like I literally was like on the Kaiser website reading further down. Because what happened was the first thing I got was in the mail from the clinic. That's a, that's a separate entity. And I went off of their list. Then in the app, my kp.org app, then it had a new list with some additional stuff on it which I didn't see until a couple of days later. Then on the website of Kaiser there was yet a third list which had even more things. And that was when I first got hip to this is a low fiber diet kind of thing. And so I'm again, I don't want to get into describing too much what's going on for me, I will tell you, we seem quite cleaned out. My only. I think I'm in my head about this because so many people have got at us and oh, here's the other thing. Thursday night, when I was talking about this at livewire, my friend there, Elena Passarello, said, oh, I've been through that. And I just wanted to tell you that I got an A plus from the proctologist. They said, I don't know if that's actually a proctologist. I got an A plus from the doctor. They said the prep was perfect. I was like, okay, really? Wow, that's a lot of pressure. And then I was talking to somebody else backstage who heard that, and they said I also got a really good score. And then this morning I was texting with one of my friends, a producer at cbs, and he said, can we jump on this call? And I said, I'd love to, but I'm kind of in the middle of something. And I sent him a picture of this thing of sutab. And he was like, oh, yeah, I've done that too. He goes, and guess what? The doctor told me, complimented me on my prep. I just feel I either this is the thing that these doctors tell people coming out of anesthesia, I don't know, just to put them in a good place, or there's a lot of pressure. They're really, they're. These things are being graded and I'm worried about what my grade is going to be and not because of any cheating on my part. Like, generally speaking, when there are rules, I don't follow them. I have been trying my absolute hardest. In fact, I think I went to the broth thing early because I could no longer figure out what was and was not allowed.
- [15:36]
Chris Hayes
Well, this is all interesting for me too, because, I mean, this is going to be on my horizon sometime. And you know, this or it's on my horizon for sometime in this coming year. So my questions are kind of, maybe even selfish. The broth thing, did you. Were you drinking the low sodium vegetable broth? Because A, you don't mess around with animal products and B, it's supposed to be a low sodium diet. Or was that just what you had? Like, am I allowed to grab the.
- [16:05]
Luke Burbank
Wrong boxes of Pacific broth at the grocery store? There's nothing, nothing in there that I saw about sodium being part of this. But you.
- [16:13]
Chris Hayes
What about chicken thing?
- [16:14]
Luke Burbank
Well, no, you can't have. So the broth. Broth means broth.
- [16:17]
Chris Hayes
So I mean, you could have vegetable.
- [16:19]
Luke Burbank
You could have a chicken flavored. No, no. You could have a chicken flavored broth. You can't have pieces of things.
- [16:23]
Chris Hayes
Oh, yeah, no, I knew that. I just.
- [16:24]
Luke Burbank
Much more textural, I think, than even ingredient based. I mean, conceivably if, if you really liked something and you could turn it into an absolutely clear liquid, I guess you could probably consume it.
- [16:34]
Chris Hayes
The reason I'm asking is because, and I know that this is far from reality and I'm sure I'll be miserable the time, but like, I really do love chicken broth. I told you there used to be a vending machine that would vent out like chicken broth. Like, you know, low level, low grade chicken broth. And I would like be doing my work of data entry with like a cup of coffee and a cup of chicken broth. And I was kind of like, I could probably, I could probably down a lot of chicken broth.
- [16:59]
Luke Burbank
Absolutely no yesterday I actually found once I. Once I took it from low sodium to dangerously high levels of sodium. I was. And it was also really cold yesterday. And my house is still, it's still a work in progress on the H vac. It's not quite as cozy as I'd like it to be sometimes. And I was sitting there with a sweater on and my steaming piping mug of veggie broth and I thought, this is not the worst thing. This is. Yeah, that part I don't have any complaints about. It's mostly just that I feel like, believe it or not, as a semi high functioning person in the world and a person who, when I put my mind to something, there's a lot of stuff that I am low functioning on, but it's because I don't care. But if I'm like, I'm going to really take this seriously. This is a big hassle. This is the plot line on the show. I wanted to, I don't want to have to do it again. I don't want them to get in there and be like, sir, we thought we were in the bat cave or something.
- [17:55]
Chris Hayes
Like, you know, like, there's a Honda parked in here.
- [17:58]
Luke Burbank
Yes. I mean, do you know this, this is. We're going to try to, we're going to try to take it out if we can. Like, I really didn't want to have to do this two times. And so I really was trying to take it seriously and follow the directions and I literally found the directions almost unfollowable. Let me throw this last thing in the mix. I was talking to my dad about this the other night because he's of course been through it. And he said, I go, well, what about yellow number five? What about this? What about that? He goes, I don't know, I don't think we did any of that. I honestly think a lot of this is new. Now we've got medical professionals in the audience and they can tell us. But this is where. This is the emotional journey that I'm on. Andrew. I like trying to follow it really closely. But then also on the other hand, low key being like, are they being extra with this? Because I haven't until I got this paperwork and I'm sure we have lots of people who said that. Yeah, we, they've been through it. My feeling is this might be a relatively like adding in some of these things, like a week out might be a relatively new development. I wouldn't be shocked to find out that it's been getting stricter and more complicated as time has gone on because of just how we are and because probably of maybe getting better results, etc. But when I heard my dad say like, he was like, I don't remember doing any of that. I just drank a bunch of this horrible stuff and went to the bathroom for an entire 24 hours. Like, that's, that might, that's. That was the only report of this I'd ever heard before I got into this game.
- [19:18]
Chris Hayes
You know, this is like the. You have to turn off your cell phones of the colon, right?
- [19:26]
Luke Burbank
Well, I don't worry you. You, I'd be relieved because it would mean I'm going to be in okay shape.
- [19:31]
Chris Hayes
You know what I mean? Right, right, right. You're just sort of like, listen, I know back in the days. Well, I mean, I guess the cell phone analogy breaks down there, but it's kind of.
- [19:39]
Luke Burbank
No, it's a good one. When I don't turn my cell phone.
- [19:40]
Chris Hayes
When we're on the plane, we're told we're supposed to turn off the cell phones and we've actually heard from actual professionals who explain how it can interfere with equipment. So it's not like a, it's not just a total, you know, made up thing that they're just doing to try to control us. There is a reason for it. But also we know that we've left our phone on many, many, many times in airplanes, accidentally or otherwise, and nothing bad has happened. So you're just wondering like, how much, how letter of the law do we have to follow this?
- [20:11]
Luke Burbank
Because I've been really, and this is uncharacteristic for me, I have really been Trying to follow the letter of the law. Like, I have this lime powder that actually Becca got me, and the reason that we got turned onto it is because if you're on an Alaska Airlines flight and they give you. And you get, like, a soda water, they'll give you this little packet of lime. And I love it. I don't know why I irrationally love. It's called true lime.
- [20:33]
Chris Hayes
You love it on the land, too, or just in the sky?
- [20:35]
Luke Burbank
I love it both. I love it in the land. On the land. I love it in the sky. I love it on the sea. I've never had it on the sea, but I would bring it. It started with. It was just a real happy place for me to be on a flight with my sparkly water. And then throwing this lime in it just was kind of a treat for some reason, maybe owing to the way that we taste things a little bit differently on planes. And so, you know, it's also. I'm trying to drink more water. I have. I've tried to drink more water for a while now, as I've documented on the show. And giving it a little flavor, a little pizzazz is a nice thing, but I wanted to put something healthy. This true lime is literally the only ingredient is. It's. It's shred. It's. It's just finely powdered lime. It's citric acid. That's it. It is. So it's so kind of. What's the word I'm looking for? It is so uncomplicated, and it is. So it's just lime. That's it. And it's a powder. And I was putting it in my water, and then I kept going around, around like, well, am I allowed to have lime powder in the water? The water is clear. But what if these tiny little. I mean, it's. It's. Again, it is a. It's powderized. It's not even, like, pulp. It's powder. But I was like, am I allowed to have another lime packet? Like, that's where my mind is at with this. Like, I'm really trying to do it right. And maybe that's why I'm having a hard time, because I'm not used to ever trying to follow the rules of anything. And then when I put my mind towards it, that I feel like I'm still failing at it. It's. I'm. It's leaving me in an uncomfortable position, so to speak, which won't be the first time or the last time.
- [21:56]
Chris Hayes
Today, the last solid food you had was 24 hours ago, 48 hours ago.
- [22:03]
Luke Burbank
It would have been with you and Chris and Jen. Okay, so salmon salad.
- [22:06]
Chris Hayes
Yeah, that. And that was a good, like, that looked like a good meal. Like it was a healthy salad.
- [22:10]
Luke Burbank
But it had all the tomatoes.
- [22:12]
Chris Hayes
Yeah, but see, that's right, tomatoes. No tomatoes because of.
- [22:14]
Luke Burbank
No tomatoes because of the seeds. But that's. I'm looking at the lettuce. Like, is this too much roughage? Is this too much? Is there fiber in this lettuce? Like I, I tend to know now because of all my obsessing, I tend to know what to go towards that is the healthy stuff. Like, I'm not saying I choose it all the time, but I know what it looks like. What I don't know is, is what of the healthy stuff is bad for me in this particular context of this week? Like, was that lettuce? Did that lettuce have too much fiber in it?
- [22:37]
Chris Hayes
Does.
- [22:38]
Luke Burbank
I don't think. I don't even know if lettuce has fiber in it. But like, you know what I mean?
- [22:41]
Chris Hayes
But anyway, what I don't know about fiber could fill a toilet. But I'm surprised to hear that when you said that fiber stays in the body longer than other things, that. Really surprised. That seems like I was shocked. Goes against conventional wisdom.
- [22:55]
Luke Burbank
I was absolutely shocked. This is because I looked it up on the Internet because of the exact same thing. I was under the impression that what happens is you take the fiber and it leaves your body. Like a 12 year old Luke at Wild Waves getting on one of the slides. And as it's going down the slide, it's just grabbing anything it can find. Like a 12 year old Luke at Wild Waves when it was getting too fast and he was scared. That was what I thought fiber did. And what I'm reading is it's a little more nuanced than that. It does ultimately do that, but it does not do it at a, at a, at the rapid pace that I understood it to.
- [23:28]
Chris Hayes
So that is, that is one thing that I'm learning from your experience with this is that the fasting does go on longer. So just for the timeline there, you said that the last like actual meal kind of solid food you had that.
- [23:38]
Luke Burbank
You already had, other than the gas.
- [23:40]
Chris Hayes
X, you had to be, you know, conscientious of like no seeds and the, you know, no tomatoes, et cetera, but still you were able to have a regular meal. But that was Tuesday night, you went all day Wednesday and here it is, it's almost midday on Thursday. So that Is a long. What is your plan for afterwards? Because are you already eyeing. And maybe. You know what? Maybe you don't want to have this conversation. I would totally respect that. But are you sort of thinking like, on the way home, I'm gonna get in the car and I'm gonna stop at.
- [24:08]
Luke Burbank
Fill in the way I'm getting a ride from Becca. That's part of the whole deal. You're not allowed to drive yourself. And that's a complicating factor because I feel like I might still be high as a kite if I. Right now, in front of you and the listeners, I would say what I really wanna do is order a large pizza, have it delivered.
- [24:25]
Chris Hayes
Yeah. To the hospital.
- [24:27]
Luke Burbank
To the hospital. And also my house, just to be safe. And maybe in between somewhere, maybe the recycling place in Rose Valley that I drop stuff off at. That's about midpoint. I feel like I want to eat a bunch of food later today, but also, I'm going to be out of my. I'm going to be zooted. I don't know what my state of mind is going to be like. I don't. You know what I mean? I'm going to. I'm going to be coming out of a pretty intense anesthesia experience. And so I don't know if I'm going to be like, becca, take me to Stuffy's 2, which is some weird restaurant. It's like the Sidigi's.
- [25:01]
Chris Hayes
I was not allowed to watch Stuffy's 2 as a kid.
- [25:04]
Luke Burbank
I feel like it's the. If you remember, if longtime listeners, though, there was a restaurant in Bellingham called Sadiqi's that I could never figure out what's going on with it. They never saw anyone in there. Once I darkened the door just as research. And I believe they went across the street to the Fred Meyer to get my food. It was really weird.
- [25:20]
Chris Hayes
Didn't you order a gin and tonic or a vodka tonic or something? And they didn't know how to make it. It was like one. It was like mostly, I think if.
- [25:26]
Luke Burbank
One vodka tonic or vodka soda or.
- [25:29]
Chris Hayes
Soda with one ice cube. But they didn't know how to put.
- [25:33]
Luke Burbank
There's a place. There's a place down in Longview called Stuffy's 2 that's kind of a similar thing. Like, I. I've never been in there, but I'm like, is anybody going to Stuffies too? I don't know what my. I don't know what my mental capacity is going to be on the ride home. I Don't know if I'm able to operate the, the pizza delivery system, if I'm able to call Papa Pete's and say get something up here.
- [25:54]
Chris Hayes
So.
- [25:55]
Luke Burbank
And honestly, to be honest, I've been. It's been now enough self denial that if I could just go into my cupboard and just like open up a box of like. Or a tin. I really like these. Like, this sounds like such a weird thing, but Trader Joe's sells these. These white. I've eaten them in meetings with you and John before. They're these big tins of beans. White cannell. Cannellini beans.
- [26:17]
Chris Hayes
Maybe you did a hey Dummies all about them once.
- [26:19]
Luke Burbank
Oh yeah, yeah. I'm obsessed with those. And, and because like that's the kind of stuff that I haven't been allowed to eat for a week. I mean, I'm craving even that. What I learned last night was an inordinate amount of my TikTok viewing is food related. And I did not know that until I was like, I can't. I don't want to look at this right now. The other thing that was unexpected about last night, and maybe this is just how my body reacted, or maybe I'll rue this because it'll turn out that I didn't do the prep hard enough. But it was a weirdly cozy night. Here's what I did. I took the pills. I got into some really comfy sweats. I put on a really comfy sweatshirt and a sweater. I turned on the fire. I turned on the heater. I put a little. A little beanie on a little warm cap. I put a phone charger next to the toilet. It was just like I was just like prepping my whole house for this whole thing. And then Andrew, I unapologetically looked at TikTok for four hours and I felt like you're allowed to do this tonight. Not every night, but tonight. Tonight you're allowed to do in the words of patience and prudence, tonight you belong to me. TikTok. This is a totally acceptable thing. My job is to drink lime water, look at TikTok, stay cozy, and try not to have a bathroom accident. And something about that being the ambition for the night was kind of lovely.
- [27:40]
Chris Hayes
I believe that I don't get like bedridden sick very often, but 2tbt.l a thons ago after we. It was the first one that we had done as an independent organization and we were leaving your parents basement and packing a bunch of stuff up and what is it? Is it like a. Is it a Two hour drive maybe from. From your folks house to my house.
- [28:01]
Luke Burbank
Yeah. Depending on traffic. And you didn't do the ferry, right?
- [28:03]
Chris Hayes
We didn't do the ferries of hours.
- [28:05]
Luke Burbank
Yeah. And it was like also, particularly on a Friday, traffic.
- [28:08]
Chris Hayes
It was a Friday. Yeah, rush hour. So anyway, whatever that was. But I was, I was not feeling great in your parents house that morning as we were leaving. But like again, because I don't get fevers very often. Boy, the last two times I've had a fever were both related to TBTL in some way because I got Covid when, you know, right before I landed in Philly. But both of the times I was very confused as to what was going on with me because I don't get feverish very often, so I don't recognize that. And before this 1, 2 TBT. L. A thons ago, I. I don't know if I'd had a fever in a decade or two. So it was like I didn't know what was going on with me. I just felt space here and space here and weirder and weirder until by the time I got home, I was like just like crawling to bed, right? I'm like, I gotta get in it. But then once I was in this mode, I was like, well, this is interesting. Like I'm definitely sick. I need to be in this bed. It's the beginning of the weekend. There's nothing for me to be doing anyway. I don't have to make any kind of work arrangements. Like let's just like have a sick day. Like I hadn't had a sick day since I was a kid. So I'm like, well, maybe I should go downstairs in the basement and like get a bunch of blankets and like just watch a movie. I'm like, I never watch movies because I don't have the attention span because I'm getting up too much and playing darts. Like, whatever. Like I'm gonna watch a movie, have a sick day. And I do that and I pull up the covers and I spend like probably an hour trying to choose a damn movie. Like all these movies that people have been telling me to see, you know, over the years, I never sit down to watch. I'm gonna finally watch it and I turn on the master and I don't know if you remember the beginning of that. I still haven't seen the Masters, the end of this story, because the opening, and I love a weird, uncomfortable movie, but the opening scene of that movie with him on the beach having, I guess, mommy, daddy times with the sand, it was Just so. And I still don't know how any of that is going to play into the rest of the movie.
- [29:57]
Luke Burbank
All I know is the movie about Scientology.
- [29:59]
Chris Hayes
I know that part. I didn't know the part about the. I didn't know the part about being intimate with the earth. And so.
- [30:05]
Luke Burbank
Well, that's because you have too many engrams.
- [30:08]
Chris Hayes
I certainly do. I need to clear some of those out for you. Yeah, exactly. So, anyway, my point is I just turned off the TV and just went to bed. Like, I still did not have a good. Like, I think I chose the. Maybe I just needed a good, like, Winnie the Pooh movie or something, but something challenging like that literally sort of made me feel sicker. And again, I don't shy away from uncomfortable cinematography.
- [30:29]
Luke Burbank
Yeah, I was. I kept. So I was lying on the couch and I kept thinking, okay, I'm going to look at a little more TikTok, and then I'm going to put on a movie. I'm going to put on TV or some Netflix product or whatever. And I just kept not doing it because there I was wearing a bit of a path to the bathroom. But again. And you know, we can. We can probably wrap this up here because I've said what I came here to say, and the only thing left is for me to go to the place and get the procedure. But. But when I was using the bathroom, it was surprising to me how voluntary the exercise was. I was going because I was like, I should probably do this again. I just had it. I think I was expecting it to be a thing where I was always like. I was like, am I gonna need to bring, like, a folding chair into the bathroom and just sit right next to the toilet so that the amount of time between me sitting down and me being at the toilet are minimal. But that just wasn't my experience. Again, some of that could have to do with these tabs. Some of it could do with me not prepping enough. Some of it could just be that, as I said earlier, I'm just built different.
- [31:30]
Chris Hayes
You've just built up a tolerance. To sum.
- [31:32]
Luke Burbank
It's. Well, I wonder also if as a person who in my younger life had a lot of, like, stomach distress and then, you know, told many stories on the show about, like, moments when my bowel control failed me. I also just kind of wondered, like, am I just. Are. For people that have never struggled, I don't think there are that many people out there, but for people maybe who haven't struggled with having kind of regular stomach issues, is this just for them, like, oh, my God, you're not gonna believe what this feels like, because I'm like, I call this Tuesday.
- [32:02]
Chris Hayes
Sometimes, like, I really clip you under the table.
- [32:05]
Luke Burbank
I mean, honestly, like, I. I really had the thought a couple times, like, this is. This is what the hype has been about. Oh, I've done this plenty of times.
- [32:14]
Chris Hayes
Welcome to my world.
- [32:15]
Luke Burbank
I mean. Bruce Williams voice. Like, I really. Again, I don't know. But the real question, the real. The test for all of this, quite literally and figuratively, will be what they say to me coming out of the procedure, which I will give a full report on tomorrow. If they're. If they. If they say, yeah, everything looked good, or even if they say everything looks bad, but we could see it, that's. That will give me. You know, then I'll just be like, I guess. I guess this wasn't as bad as I expected it to be.
- [32:44]
Chris Hayes
If they're like, I don't know that I followed you. If they can see it, well, that there's clarity.
- [32:49]
Luke Burbank
The whole process of this is to create clarity for them as to what's going on in there they don't want to see. So in other words, I don't. It's not even about the outcome. It's not about, do I get a good colonoscopy report or a bad colonoscopy report in terms of the state of my colon. Does that make sense? Yeah.
- [33:04]
Chris Hayes
You're more worried about, were you a good boy during prep?
- [33:06]
Luke Burbank
I'm less worried about a polyp that looks dangerous than I am about them saying, we couldn't see what was going on in there. Yeah, it was like that garbage shoot they go into in Star wars where when Princess Leia shoots out the Great and says, somebody's going to save you flyboys.
- [33:21]
Chris Hayes
Yeah, right.
- [33:22]
Luke Burbank
That's. To me. I mean, you know, famous last words. I really am not. And maybe this. This could. You know, I could really regret this as well. For whatever reason, I'm not particularly worried about the medical report about. About my body. I'm. I'm really worried that they're going to say, we got in there and all we found were organic black beans from Trader Joe's, and we got. You need to come back month, sir.
- [33:46]
Chris Hayes
When you follow directions, it's not going to happen. That's what I'm more so long like.
- [33:50]
Luke Burbank
Isn'T that rare that you hear that coming from me? Yeah.
- [33:53]
Chris Hayes
That you're worried about.
- [33:53]
Luke Burbank
Famously overconfident person, underprepared and overconfident. That's kind of my, that's my approach to life.
- [33:59]
Chris Hayes
No, it's going to be like when you go to one of those beautiful beaches in the Mediterranean and you're like in a boat but you can look down, you can see all the way to the bottom of the ocean floor.
- [34:09]
Luke Burbank
Bottom, colon, show title.
- [34:13]
Chris Hayes
Now we're going with a boy named Su Tab. You had that. Okay, that's also pretty good.
- [34:19]
Luke Burbank
Thank you for being a town. All right, it's time to thank some donors. They didn't know that they were sponsoring Andrew. With my fecalist out of town, I can solicit money from anyone I want.
- [34:33]
Chris Hayes
What these listeners don't realize, if there is any sort of conflicting emotions about like hey, I get to support the show that Chris Hayes is on. But also to get there we have to crawl through a half hour of Luke talking about bowel movements and, and colonoscopies. They should know that there's an alternative history in which I talk about how God damn confusing garbage pickup is this week because of these snowfalls we've been having and continue to have. And the alerts from the city are not helpful. Like yesterday I got one that says put it the next day. Then it's like, okay, now some people are canceling and I don't know where I fit. Maybe we'll get to it tomorrow.
- [35:12]
Luke Burbank
But I just want, let's definitely put a pin in that.
- [35:15]
Chris Hayes
But I want Kristen Orlich to know she's in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania by the way, our first donor. I want her to know that she, she did avoid a worse outcome if, if you could believe it.
- [35:26]
Luke Burbank
What about Bill Pollock in Kingston, Ontario, formerly Toronto, our founding Toronto and now Kings 10.
- [35:35]
Chris Hayes
Now I know Bill pretty well. He's been a long, long time listener and, and, and a writer in her to the show friend of the show, friend of the show contributor and and so I think I can say this, I wouldn't say this if I didn't recognize the name but I do think it's interesting that we're talking Pollock on a day where you're thinking about polyps. I think that that seems and I think that Bill would be open to that as being a.
- [36:01]
Luke Burbank
How do you feel the estate of Jackson Polyp feels about that.
- [36:04]
Chris Hayes
That acceptable.
- [36:06]
Luke Burbank
Thank you, Bill. We appreciate you. Love to see your name on this list indeed. Thanks also to Brandon Volbright of Vashon, Washington. I was watching in my. My intense and and long tick tock scrolling last night which by the way did feel like old times. I really have not Been doing that very much. I don't see myself going back to really was kind of it's like saltines and ginger ale, right? It's like it felt like a thing I was doing because I was in a way under the weather. But it didn't feel like I don't want to eat saltines and ginger ale for the rest of my life for every meal. But so it was an interesting experience to just dive back into that like intense long running experience with TikTok. But in the midst of all that, I saw a clip from the Conan O'Brien needs a friend and he was interviewing Caitlin Olson, who's one of the members of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.
- [36:51]
Chris Hayes
Oh, yeah, right, of course.
- [36:52]
Luke Burbank
I think she's got a show called the Mick. I think she's got a new show out now that's something else where she might be like a teacher or something that I think is very popular. I didn't realize this, but she lived on Vachon and at some point I think her parents were kind of back to the Landers and she was talking to Conan and Conan was going off about, I mean, in a good way about Vashon island and about Seattle because his wife is from Seattle. And it was like four minutes of Conan's thoughts on like Seattle and Vashon. And I was just like. And it took me back to a time I knew where Conan O'Brien's Conan O'Brien's In Laws lived. I knew where his mother and father in law lived. They lived down in Seward park, which was a little south of where that house that I had with all the steps in front of it was. And I used to go on these runs down in Seward park and I would run by Conan O'Brien's In Law's House and I would dream of it being a day that Conan O'Brien was just like walking around because apparently he was often and maybe still is often spotted in Seattle. Although I believe his, his, his in laws may or may not have passed away at this point. But yeah, anyway, that's Vashon island for you where we've got Brandon Volbright and occasionally Conan O'Brien and Kaitlin Olson.
- [37:58]
Chris Hayes
Nice. Well, yeah. Were you dropping your scripts off, like just like accidentally dropping a script as you jogged by? I don't know if Conan can get scripts greenlit or not.
- [38:06]
Luke Burbank
I had a real fantasy. This was around the time too that we stopped being on Cairo Project and remember we did those shows. I did those shows at the Columbia City Theater. And I was like, this is too perfect. His in laws live like an eight minute walk down Genesee street from here. Like we were that the Columbia City Theater is very close to Seward park and very close to where his parents or his in laws lived. And I was like, I gotta run into this guy down at, you know, like one of these little places in Columbia City and then invite him on the show. And then he comes on the show and then it becomes the number one podcast in America. And then. And then I don't have to be Talking about colonoscopies 12 years from now to try to move the needle.
- [38:47]
Chris Hayes
It turns out he would just someday have the number one podcast in America.
- [38:53]
Luke Burbank
Exactly. I knew one of the people in this scenario would have the number one podcast in the world. I just kind of thought it was gonna be me, Kevin and Beth Shumway in Layton, Utah. They knew the whole time that we were going to be doing TBTL. They were like, it's not the number one podcast in the world. It's not Conan O'Brien needs a friend, but it's something we like.
- [39:14]
Chris Hayes
Do you.
- [39:15]
Luke Burbank
We thank them.
- [39:16]
Chris Hayes
I got to be careful with people's last names. I really don't want to get into riffs on people's names or just say the same word association. Like I was gonna say jokes, but this isn't even a joke. But I do wonder if Kevin and Beth are of an age in which they had to live through people being like Shumway, like Elf. Like, I think I think of Elf. I think of Gordon Shumway when I think of Shumway. But they might not. They might have totally missed that.
- [39:43]
Luke Burbank
Yeah, that's a. You know what, that's a really good point. I was going to say let's not. Let's not bore them with that tedious reference. But that may be such an old and tedious reference that they've never been bored with it. I. What was I listening to? Oh, something popped up last night again. Thing about the TikTok is it does give me a lot of material. Is it good material? No. Is it material? Yes. It. There's something flashed across the screen that was the Sundays. You know that band, the Sundays?
- [40:11]
Chris Hayes
Oh, yeah.
- [40:12]
Luke Burbank
And it was. I forget which song off of like, you know, that.
- [40:15]
Chris Hayes
That.
- [40:15]
Luke Burbank
That first record of theirs that hit the US Reading Writin Rithmetic, and it's got the. Doesn't it have a little kind of like a. Not a trilobite, but some kind of a fossil on the COVID maybe? Shell of some guy. One of the songs. I mean, I was obsessed with that CD. I mean, I just wore that CD out. But it came out in 1990, and I was doing the math on that. That's 34 years ago. Rounding up. That's essentially 40 years ago. And I was like, this music sounds as fresh and good to me today as it did when I heard it. And I thought, imagine in 1980, if you bumped up against someone and they were listening to a song from 1940.
- [40:48]
Chris Hayes
Yeah, yeah.
- [40:49]
Luke Burbank
And they were like, what do you mean? You haven't listened to Bill and the Broadsiders? Like, oh, these were huge when I was in high school. Like, it would be insane for someone to be telling you about music from the 1940s in the 1980s and being like, oh, you gotta listen. You gotta give this a listen. And that's what I would say about the Sundays. You gotta give them a listen.
- [41:10]
Chris Hayes
Yeah. Somebody on Levitard was like, kind of listing quarterback performances of all time or something. And almost all the quarterbacks were modern because I think that position is getting better and better. Or more and more protected. More and more protected. Yeah, that's part of it, too. It's just changed a lot. But it makes sense that.
- [41:26]
Luke Burbank
But anyway, quarterback smoking fewer cigarettes at halftime.
- [41:29]
Chris Hayes
Somebody threw in, oh, geez, how am I blanking on his name? I was just about to say the Denver Broncos quarterback from the 1980s, Elway. Somebody said Elway. And one of the younger people on the show is just like, yeah. It just doesn't look like anything to me, or I don't know how she put it, but she's just so young. She's like. And somebody's like, yeah, that's like mentioning somebody that would be on, like, crackly black and white. White like leather.
- [41:53]
Luke Burbank
How do you not know about Elway? There's a lot of things from 40 years ago I don't know about.
- [41:58]
Chris Hayes
Right? Yeah, yeah.
- [42:00]
Luke Burbank
Wait, you don't know about Ya Tittle?
- [42:03]
Chris Hayes
Don't worry, I'll beep it.
- [42:05]
Luke Burbank
You know who knows about Ya Tittle? Probably Brandon Lucian in Milton, Washington.
- [42:09]
Chris Hayes
Look at that. A2 Brandon Day.
- [42:12]
Luke Burbank
I call that a good point.
- [42:13]
Chris Hayes
Love it. Thank you, Brandon.
- [42:14]
Luke Burbank
And then we've got Tim and Katie Mackie into coma, Washington.
- [42:18]
Chris Hayes
Great.
- [42:18]
Luke Burbank
Tim and Katie, Kevin and Beth, Brandon and Brandon, Bill and Kristen, all keeping TBTL going today. Thank you so much. Couldn't do it without you. Hello and welcome to Top Story. All right, our Top Story today, we're chatting with our friend Chris Hayes. I don't probably need to over describe his career here on the show because we talk about him so much already. But he is the host of the 8pm on the East Coast, 5pm on the West Coast, MSNBC show. All In. He's got a great podcast. Why is this Happening? And he has this new book out called the Sirens Call, which he was promoting in Seattle at Town hall and was having quite the day, which I think we're going to hear about just in terms of busyness, but was nice enough, or honestly, Andrew, calculating enough, I mean, to move a few more books, maybe to come on TBTL in between all these other things he was doing.
- [43:15]
Chris Hayes
This is a controversial take, but I take most of the credit for his success writ large.
- [43:22]
Luke Burbank
Yeah.
- [43:23]
Chris Hayes
And I know that he already had attained a certain amount of success long before I even came on tbt. He was a TBTL listener long before I was on tbtl, so he didn't even know who I was yet.
- [43:34]
Luke Burbank
There's something back when he was writing for National Review.
- [43:37]
Chris Hayes
Yeah. I believe it was the Costco.
- [43:39]
Luke Burbank
Costco connections.
- [43:40]
Chris Hayes
The Costco connections, yeah. I don't know. There's something. I feel like, just spiritually, I've sort of been like, sort of a mentor and a guiding light to him throughout his career.
- [43:50]
Luke Burbank
I think he would agree. So this is our conversation with Chris Hayes. We recorded this in this teeny, tiny room, possibly the worst room in terms of acoustics for doing this. But that's the room we had backstage at Town Hall. Take a listen.
- [44:05]
Andrew Walsh
Wait, so the colonoscopy is happening Thursday.
- [44:08]
Luke Burbank
Afternoon and you're doing.
- [44:09]
Andrew Walsh
Why are you doing the real one?
- [44:11]
Luke Burbank
Well, let's start here, Chris, by the.
- [44:14]
Andrew Walsh
Way, I'm very apropos. Uncharacteristically, I'm like six or seven episodes behind. I am not in September. Like that one listener who was listening to us talk about the car rental.
- [44:24]
Luke Burbank
Oh, that's right.
- [44:25]
Andrew Walsh
I loved A, her being apologetic and B, like just working through sequentially. She's like, I'm not skipping ahead. Obviously. I have to see every episode. I gotta.
- [44:33]
Luke Burbank
Well, I mean, the piece out. The thing is, Chris, we've. We've captured their attention. You have.
- [44:38]
Andrew Walsh
So I'm like six episodes behind, but I know that the colonoscopy is coming up.
- [44:42]
Luke Burbank
And in fact, when this tape is playing on tbtl, we will be. It will be airing on the day that I am about to go in under the. Hopefully it's not a knife. Under the watchful eye of the colonoscopies.
- [44:58]
Andrew Walsh
You have done this before?
- [44:59]
Luke Burbank
I have Never done this before.
- [45:01]
Andrew Walsh
You opted for the other way.
- [45:02]
Luke Burbank
To answer your question, Chris, and it is a good one. Why did I not just go for sending in a little sample on a piece of paper? I got bamboozled by big colonoscopy. And by that I mean they're like.
- [45:14]
Andrew Walsh
It'S not as good or it's not as accurate.
- [45:15]
Chris Hayes
A.
- [45:16]
Luke Burbank
It's. You know, this is described as the gold standard.
- [45:19]
Andrew Walsh
Right.
- [45:19]
Luke Burbank
And also, there seems to have been this. There was a real concerted PR move on the part of the colonoscopy industry to, I think, recruit people, wrench people.
- [45:31]
Andrew Walsh
Back from the like.
- [45:32]
Luke Burbank
Like, whether it was dad poop in the box.
- [45:33]
Chris Hayes
Are you hearing poop in the box?
- [45:35]
Luke Burbank
Yeah, they. They. They somehow, I think, got a lot of people that I happen to listen to and take seriously to say, a, the procedure is no big deal.
- [45:45]
Andrew Walsh
Right.
- [45:46]
Luke Burbank
B, the drugs are actually fun. David Sedaris is on the record saying it's the best drugs he gets ever. And then see that the. The upside of this is if they're in there and they see something that's just like a small little something that, like, we could just snip that out right now. They do that. And therefore, if you were to. If they were to see some reading when you sent in your sample and they didn't like it, then you'd have to go in and maybe for a couple of rounds. This is supposed to be. If they get in there and everything's fine, then you have to do it for 10 years.
- [46:18]
Andrew Walsh
I feel like you're about to sell me a timeshare. You're like. You've got the whole. You've got the whole pitch down, dude.
- [46:24]
Luke Burbank
Marriott Bonvoy tried to sell me the least compelling deal this morning. I was calling in to do some kind of scheduling of something, and the nice person on the phone said, can. Would you be interested in a vacation for starting at 199 a night? And I said, maybe. Where's the vacation?
- [46:40]
Andrew Walsh
There's a big question.
- [46:41]
Luke Burbank
There she goes. I'm not sure. I will transfer you to somebody who will tell you about that. So here's the thing. As we're recording this, it's still. We're still a couple days out from the procedure, and I've already shifted into intense denial mode of, like, what, I'm allowed to eat, you like that, etc. Well, I do under normal circumstances. But I was checking into the hotel today, and just a few minutes ago, and people were just sitting around like, ordering, like, doordash and jimmy John's and sitting around in the bar. And I was so jealous of all of them because I'm going to be on broth for the next, you know, day and a half. So anyway, so it's only at this.
- [47:18]
Andrew Walsh
Age if you do the real thing, the gold standard.
- [47:20]
Luke Burbank
The gold standard, it's.
- [47:22]
Andrew Walsh
And it's clear it's another 10 years.
- [47:24]
Luke Burbank
10 years before you have to do anything.
- [47:25]
Chris Hayes
But have you not done it yet?
- [47:27]
Andrew Walsh
No, I've done the other option.
- [47:29]
Chris Hayes
Oh, okay.
- [47:29]
Luke Burbank
Also, it's, it's, it's worth remembering.
- [47:31]
Chris Hayes
Say poop in a box.
- [47:32]
Andrew Walsh
It's worth it, it's worth remembering.
- [47:35]
Luke Burbank
Chris is considerably younger than us, considerably more accomplished.
- [47:39]
Andrew Walsh
We're the same.
- [47:40]
Luke Burbank
Considerably younger.
- [47:42]
Chris Hayes
I'm pushing 50.
- [47:43]
Andrew Walsh
Yeah, we're all. A few years. It really diminishes. You get older.
- [47:47]
Luke Burbank
How. As I was buying a family size thing of gas X in the Safeway, that was the most humiliating part of this process is you go to the pharmacy to get the stuff that you're going to take that's going to really colonic. Yeah. Although I paid, I paid the upcharge to get the pills instead of powder.
- [48:06]
Andrew Walsh
The powder that you drink into water.
- [48:08]
Luke Burbank
Powder has to be mixed in so much water.
- [48:10]
Andrew Walsh
The only, the thing that's most appealing to me about the gold standard, and I think the listeners won't like this, and I hate to admit it, is the, is the like, colonic aspect of like. Because you get, you do. You kind of drop some. You get a little drawn in the face. Like, I've been around someone who just had their colonoscopy and it's like, you, you know, you.
- [48:27]
Luke Burbank
I'm still waiting for that to kick in. But I haven't gone through the real stuff yet. They do include a helpful visual guide, which is four glasses of water. It's a photo. And the glass of water on the far left looks like black coffee and the glass of water on the far right looks like Poland Spring water. And that's the color you're supposed. They're basically saying, do not even think about coming in here until that's what's coming out of you.
- [48:54]
Chris Hayes
But were you gonna say that you had some embarrassment getting the stuff at the store? Because I was gonna say, who's a fan of self checkout now?
- [49:00]
Luke Burbank
You know, I should actually, I did do self checkup, but I had to ask the pharmacist where the gas X was because. So when you're reading Worst of All Worlds, when you're reading the instructions from the, from the, you Know, colonoscopy folks, they say, you know, take this stuff every so many hours and drink this fluid and da, da. And also take like two extra strength Gas X. I thought that was gonna be in the prescription when I got it. You know what I mean? I thought it was gonna be harder than you.
- [49:26]
Andrew Walsh
It's a supplemental thing you need to purchase.
- [49:28]
Luke Burbank
I didn't know I had to go out of network for this Gas X. And I am luckily not an gassy person. I have not usually been walking through a Safeway with a jumbo sized thing of gas.
- [49:38]
Chris Hayes
Price check on gas.
- [49:39]
Andrew Walsh
Yeah, exactly.
- [49:41]
Luke Burbank
So let's talk to the star of the show today, Mr. Chris Hayes. You are in the midst of an, I can only say, a spectacularly successful media blitz for your book.
- [49:53]
Andrew Walsh
I mean, it's a lot.
- [49:54]
Luke Burbank
I didn't think it's working.
- [49:56]
Andrew Walsh
It's not usually possible for me to get tired of the sound of my old voice.
- [50:00]
Chris Hayes
Like this is a lot more than last time. Right. Like you're all over.
- [50:03]
Andrew Walsh
I've never done anything like this. I mean, the other thing, it's been amazing. People, the people that my publishers are incredible, the publicists, everyone's done an amazing job. Like, I feel incredibly lucky. The thing that was a little strange in the pre publication run up is that some of the people you're talking to have read the book, which is awesome, but the book isn't out there. So there's this weird thing where like you're talking about the book, but the whole reason you wrote the book and went through all the effort is that fundamentally some belief that the text itself can speak in a way that a summary can't. So then you're in this sort of weird paradoxical situation where you're kind of distilling it and messaging around it, which is fine, it's what you have to do. But what you really want is like what's been really gratifying is just encountering people now. Have read it. Yeah, you know, just readers saying, I really enjoyed it.
- [50:50]
Luke Burbank
I saw that you've like been seeing people in like airports and stuff.
- [50:53]
Andrew Walsh
So someone in Moynihan Station, as I was like waiting to get on the train to go to my first event, I was ordering coffee and I was talking to my mom and someone looked at me and he like made a motion at me and he reached and he pulled it out.
- [51:05]
Chris Hayes
I love it.
- [51:05]
Andrew Walsh
That was a cool moment.
- [51:06]
Chris Hayes
That's great.
- [51:08]
Andrew Walsh
So, no, it's been, it's been fantastic. And yes, it's like it has been. I'VE just been doing a lot of publicity.
- [51:14]
Luke Burbank
I mean, I have to say it's. Again, it's been very successful in that you are. And I'm not. This is not sarcastic or meant in any kind of critical way. You are flooding the zone.
- [51:23]
Andrew Walsh
I am flooding the zone.
- [51:24]
Luke Burbank
It's good. It's like you're doing what Kamala should have done. You're everywhere all the time.
- [51:28]
Andrew Walsh
Well, it is a little form and content, you know, like, it's a book about attention, and it's really right up in your face. And, Lerd, I loved your. I loved your recap.
- [51:39]
Chris Hayes
Getting inside your head.
- [51:40]
Andrew Walsh
Oh, my God, it's so true.
- [51:41]
Chris Hayes
But I heard you on Pablo. I've heard you.
- [51:43]
Andrew Walsh
That was really fun.
- [51:44]
Chris Hayes
Maybe I heard four or five. And I do not hear you repeating a lot of stuff.
- [51:48]
Andrew Walsh
That's nice of you to say. I feel like I am, but I've been really trying to come up with.
- [51:51]
Luke Burbank
Isn't that hard, though, because. Because, you know, there. There are some themes in the book, and you did a lot of research, and there you wrote it the way you did because that was maybe the clearest way to express the point. But then you're like, I've got to figure out a different way to say this. Now. That seems like that'd be hard.
- [52:06]
Andrew Walsh
The easier thing is just to try to move things in, like, different areas as opposed to say things differently. You see what I'm saying? Like, if there's things you haven't talked about in one interview, and you're like, oh, I haven't done that riff on spam, you know, and spam as pollution and. Well, that's. That's a riff I could do that I haven't done somewhere else. So like it. But you do end up. I mean, the two things that it's most similar to are politicians on the campaign trail who. There's a reason they call it a stump speech. They just develop material, and then they could go, you know, stop by, stop by stop, give the stump speech. And comedians with, like, a tight five or a tight ten, whatever, they have, like, they have their routine. They can go to four different mics in a night, get up and do it like you do. It does get a little similar to that. One of the things that's awesome about this tour is that in every stop at the actual events, I've had, like, an interviewer like you, Luke Burbank, or.
- [52:56]
Luke Burbank
Like, even some people more famous than me. I've noticed on the. On the tour.
- [53:00]
Chris Hayes
Who. Who have you been in Conversation with.
- [53:02]
Luke Burbank
Everyone else interviewing Chris on the tour is more noteworthy.
- [53:05]
Andrew Walsh
I don't think that's true. Last night was Michael Lewis in San Francisco.
- [53:09]
Chris Hayes
Wow.
- [53:09]
Luke Burbank
And then Jen Psaki comes.
- [53:11]
Andrew Walsh
Jen Psaki did it.
- [53:12]
Chris Hayes
Oh, you're done with that one, Jen Psaki.
- [53:14]
Andrew Walsh
I did Lawrence Lessig as a law professor.
- [53:16]
Chris Hayes
Wow. Yeah. Of course.
- [53:17]
Andrew Walsh
David Remnick is a New Yorker editor.
- [53:19]
Luke Burbank
Sure. How's his podcast? Actually, pretty good, I think. I listen to it every week.
- [53:24]
Andrew Walsh
How's his colonoscopy?
- [53:25]
Luke Burbank
Yeah, thank you. Exactly.
- [53:28]
Andrew Walsh
As his Gas X. Yeah.
- [53:29]
Chris Hayes
Did he ask you about pooping in a box?
- [53:30]
Andrew Walsh
Yeah, we did, like 20 minutes on that. But no, it's been great. And I actually. It's nice to be. It's actually been. The events have been nice because being on the road is nice, and it's actually nice to be around people right now. I think people are really needing that. You know, people are getting up off the mat a little bit.
- [53:46]
Luke Burbank
So you feel like you're seeing that.
- [53:48]
Andrew Walsh
Yeah, I can see it. It's. It's still. People are still knocked out and groggy and like.
- [53:53]
Luke Burbank
Yeah.
- [53:53]
Andrew Walsh
Spinning a little. But I can see people getting up off the mat, which is pretty crucial because the longer everyone stays down, like, I'm afraid they're going to count to 10 and then we're going to have a problem. So it's like.
- [54:06]
Luke Burbank
Yeah, so.
- [54:07]
Chris Hayes
But.
- [54:07]
Andrew Walsh
But it's been good, and it's been good to be around these crowds of people who are, like, energized and looking for, I don't know, answers what to do. Are concerned about the country.
- [54:22]
Luke Burbank
The folks at the publisher and the folks that are trying to get the word out and all that. They must be so happy to have you as the spokesperson for this book because you're so good at it. I interview a lot of authors for my LiveWire job, and being able to write a book does not mean you're necessarily able to describe it. And you're going back to the original thought.
- [54:42]
Andrew Walsh
Right. Like, about writing the book. Like it. Yeah. I mean, I always. The thing that really strikes me this with is actors who sometimes can be just the most brilliant artists in the world and are incapable of talking about their work.
- [54:55]
Chris Hayes
Act like you want to talk to me.
- [54:56]
Andrew Walsh
Yeah. Right.
- [54:57]
Chris Hayes
Yeah.
- [54:57]
Andrew Walsh
I mean, I've done interviews with actors that were great actors that were, like, tough. You're white knuckling the whole time. Yeah, I mean, I think I'm, you know, like, you guys. I talk for a living. And partly that's just. It's reps. And practice. I mean. Yeah, I was running the math the other day. I've done like, I've done over 10,000 segments of cable news in my life. You know, it's like a lot.
- [55:19]
Chris Hayes
Wow.
- [55:20]
Andrew Walsh
It's a lot. It's a lot of segments.
- [55:22]
Chris Hayes
Yeah, there's a lot in a collector series.
- [55:24]
Andrew Walsh
Exactly.
- [55:25]
Luke Burbank
Yikes. Yeah.
- [55:27]
Andrew Walsh
So, you know, it's. It's. You get pretty like anything, you know.
- [55:32]
Luke Burbank
How much prep did you do for your Abraham Lincoln for the audiobook?
- [55:37]
Chris Hayes
Luke was analyzing that on the show.
- [55:39]
Andrew Walsh
Today because you got to kind of throw your voice a little bit to signify.
- [55:43]
Luke Burbank
Yes. Yeah.
- [55:44]
Andrew Walsh
There's someone different. I actually did. That is my Daniel Day Lewis in Lincoln impersonation.
- [55:50]
Luke Burbank
In exactly seven days, you'll hear the part of today's show where I said, it's Chris, influenced by Daniel Day Lewis.
- [55:56]
Andrew Walsh
In the Spielberg movie Weird High Rey.
- [55:58]
Luke Burbank
Version just a little bit. And Andrew. Andrew pointed out, I asked, I was.
- [56:02]
Chris Hayes
Like, did you do the classic deep voice like we all used to before.
- [56:05]
Luke Burbank
That movie came out?
- [56:06]
Chris Hayes
Yes, it was the ddl.
- [56:09]
Andrew Walsh
Yeah.
- [56:10]
Luke Burbank
I love it. Like, what a. What a. What a kind of down vocal downgrade that was for Lincoln. No one was going to know.
- [56:17]
Andrew Walsh
Exactly. It's so true. And yet it was so shocking and works so well.
- [56:23]
Luke Burbank
I love.
- [56:23]
Andrew Walsh
I actually love that movie.
- [56:24]
Luke Burbank
Yeah, absolutely.
- [56:25]
Andrew Walsh
I think it's a great movie and I think that portrayal is fascinating because it's. It. It embraces the fundamental weirdness of Lincoln, who is a weird guy. Like, people said this all the time about it.
- [56:37]
Luke Burbank
I really liked. I mean, I read. I probably read 80% of the book. I probably listened to 20% of it if I was driving. And I really liked how you sort of handled reading, you know, something from somebody at a different period of time. You put just enough acting on it a little bit, but just a tiny bit. Not like crazy, you know, over the top, but also not just like reading it in your normal voice. Like, I thought I felt like your. Your theater background was.
- [57:01]
Andrew Walsh
Thank you.
- [57:01]
Luke Burbank
Was. Was on Full Disclosure. I like.
- [57:02]
Andrew Walsh
I really like doing that. That's the third one I've done, and I really like doing it. And also I think one of the things that's happened in my writing is that through the experience of doing the cable news show, it's gotten more like oral. It's gotten more Spokane. The way that I write, which makes it easier to voice, you know, because I. I write. You know, I write in a pretty chatty register.
- [57:25]
Chris Hayes
I heard that your imitation of Apu, that's coming up in the last chapter is a little.
- [57:30]
Luke Burbank
The definitive history of the Simpsons. Right. With where you play every character. How does it work with you? You just. We're here backstage at Town hall in Seattle and you, I presume, flew in today.
- [57:45]
Andrew Walsh
Yeah, I woke up this morning at.
- [57:47]
Luke Burbank
Like 6 in San Francisco.
- [57:48]
Andrew Walsh
I took a flight in San Francisco. After the event last night, I took a flight this morning I flew and I went right to a software concern on the east side.
- [57:55]
Luke Burbank
Oh, I'm familiar.
- [57:55]
Chris Hayes
Expedia.
- [57:56]
Luke Burbank
Expedia.
- [57:58]
Andrew Walsh
That campus is the most insane thing. I mean, it's just. First of all, it's endless. Second of all, it's like this, the most beautiful, sun dappled, cushy place. And like. Yeah, there's just like food and drink out everywhere.
- [58:12]
Luke Burbank
Everywhere. And like, unbelievable. When we film there, first of all, it's the only time that I have even the slightest sense of what it must be like to be Chris Hayes. Because I'm not a celebrity in any sense of the word, but I. On the Microsoft campus, because every employee is literally everyone does actually obligated to stare at my fat face for X amount of hours. And did I ever tell you this too? Like, it would. They, you know, they make these sketches that are actually, I have to say, pretty funny. Not because of me, but because the people that write them and direct them are funny, good people. Like, I'm proud of these things for what they are. But there was like a bloopers reel that they put together and they were like, so I'm doing the whole voiceover module and I'm like. And also check out the bloopers. And the number one piece of feedback they got from the engineers and other employees was, are the bloopers mandatory? So now I have to say, watch the bloopers. They're not mandatory.
- [59:05]
Andrew Walsh
They're not mandatory.
- [59:07]
Luke Burbank
But when I'm over there, it's like, people will stop and be like, oh, my God, you're the guy training guy. So that's just what normal life is like for you. But yeah, it's a cool campus.
- [59:15]
Andrew Walsh
That's. That's its own thing. I mean, I was. I was. I was. I did an event there today and the people there were. It was actually a great event. People were awesome. I did that event. I signed a bunch of books. I went back to my hotel very briefly and then I went over to the studio and I did my show at 5:00 local. Yeah, which we had this Trump came out into this predictably insane press conference with Benjamin Netanyahu in Which he announced that the new US policy in Gaza.
- [59:41]
Luke Burbank
Was going to be that we own Gaza or something.
- [59:44]
Andrew Walsh
We were going to take ownership of Gaza long term and ethnically cleanse the 1.8 million people there, that we're going to depopulate it and transfer them.
- [59:51]
Chris Hayes
Where do you stand on that?
- [59:53]
Andrew Walsh
It was a truly. I mean, again, it's like, is this real? Is he riffing? Who knows?
- [59:58]
Luke Burbank
I.
- [59:58]
Andrew Walsh
Anyway, so we did that, then we did the show. We tore up the rundown, we led with that.
- [60:02]
Luke Burbank
So you're like going to this studio here in Seattle to do, to host your national television program that is, you know, typically routed out of New York City, but you're in a room, you have a couple of producers with you from the show, a couple of producers.
- [60:16]
Andrew Walsh
And then some local foot, like a cameraman, an audio guy, hair, makeup guy. And all we really, all we really need to do it is a camera and prompter, a screen behind me, and then just an ifb, you know, in my ear so I could connect and microphone.
- [60:32]
Luke Burbank
When you were doing the show from home during the pandemic, a lot of the time, I remember, I think you said Kate was helping you out at times. Like, was that insane? And how did it ever go down? Like, did you ever lose the connection?
- [60:46]
Andrew Walsh
No, I had a few. Kate would staff me and then at a certain point I got comfortable enough that I'd just do it solo, like a, like an early astronaut in the.
- [60:54]
Luke Burbank
Cockpit, you know, seriously. And there was a ground control to Major Chris.
- [60:58]
Andrew Walsh
Exactly. I had a few hairy moments where we like lost power. There was one where we lost power from a thunderstorm and I was like running the whole thing off a. I had like a Honda camping generator that I had the whole rig set up on. And then I had an iPad on the cell network that was giving me the prompter and like an iPhone earbud in my ear. And we were able to get the air. There was a few pretty close calls, but then, yeah, then I got better at it. And this and this is like, you know, got a bunch of professionals. So we did that from 5 to 6. I did my call on the car ride over from the flight landing to Microsoft.
- [61:44]
Luke Burbank
So your editorial meeting with your all in staff.
- [61:46]
Andrew Walsh
Exactly. To figure out what the rundown is, although part of it got altered. Then I, so I did the show, then I walked over here, so. And then we'll do.
- [61:53]
Luke Burbank
And then we immediately checked podcasting into this room. I, I'm, I, I'm, I guess you could say proud to note that there we are, the only podcast of the amount of reach that we have that you would be doing this for.
- [62:08]
Andrew Walsh
Well, I. I was like, let's do it.
- [62:10]
Luke Burbank
No, but we wouldn't even get if we weren't, bizarrely, some kind of weird burr under the saddle that is your life. The people at Penguin would be going, I don't know. We heard from you.
- [62:21]
Andrew Walsh
Deeply woven into my brain folds.
- [62:23]
Luke Burbank
We heard from this weird Seattle podcast. And you would have been like, absolutely not. Have you heard what my schedule is on this Tuesday?
- [62:31]
Andrew Walsh
There's two tens books I signed so far and there will be more than two actually, but two that I. One was. Someone told me there were 10 and I wrote. What did I say? What's the buff dudes drop?
- [62:46]
Luke Burbank
Oh, yeah. From workaholics. How do these buff dudes escape my radar?
- [62:50]
Andrew Walsh
Buff dudes escape my radar. I thought I knew every buff dude.
- [62:52]
Luke Burbank
Yeah, just random.
- [62:53]
Andrew Walsh
That's what I wrote.
- [62:54]
Chris Hayes
And that's not. That wasn't in person. Right? That was.
- [62:56]
Andrew Walsh
No, it was like a special order at a local bookstore. And then last night I had one in San Francisco and I wrote, that's a tuna, bro.
- [63:06]
Chris Hayes
That could have been listener Danny. Somebody sent me a photo of that tote. Tuna burrow. Yeah.
- [63:10]
Luke Burbank
Yeah. And I think I saw a picture online of you and listener Bobby too, maybe out in the northeast.
- [63:16]
Andrew Walsh
That might have been Boston. Yeah, there was a TBTL hat in Boston.
- [63:20]
Luke Burbank
Did I. So we've sold four books for you so far.
- [63:23]
Andrew Walsh
There you go.
- [63:24]
Luke Burbank
So speaking of.
- [63:25]
Chris Hayes
So what's our.
- [63:28]
Luke Burbank
I see. That is the book. Is it outselling the Bible? Currently. What religious text is it outselling?
- [63:33]
Chris Hayes
I don't know. It was.
- [63:34]
Andrew Walsh
It was. It was the. You know, the Constitution. Right, The Constitution. It was outselling Constitution briefly.
- [63:39]
Luke Burbank
Boy, that's a real kind of good news, bad news.
- [63:45]
Andrew Walsh
It is wild. Because I never look at that. I never look at that list on Amazon, like what. What the top selling books are.
- [63:51]
Luke Burbank
And until you have a book.
- [63:53]
Andrew Walsh
Yeah. And it's pretty fascinating. It's like the Constitution's there tons of dystopian fiction. So like 1984 Animal Farm, Handmaid's Tale, Parable of the Sower by Octavia Butler, like all this dystopian fiction. And then there's a bunch of romantic novels like this Onyx. Do you guys know about this Onyx phenomenon?
- [64:10]
Luke Burbank
I just heard about.
- [64:11]
Andrew Walsh
I literally just heard about it through this and then was talking. I was actually been talking.
- [64:15]
Luke Burbank
She just put another one out like a couple weeks ago.
- [64:17]
Andrew Walsh
Right.
- [64:17]
Luke Burbank
It's Already sold, like, millions.
- [64:18]
Andrew Walsh
Yes. And this I was talking to. I've been talking to independent booksellers at the various events about this. They're like, yeah, it's like, just unbelievable.
- [64:25]
Chris Hayes
It's like romance. It's classic room.
- [64:27]
Andrew Walsh
They call it Romantasy. So it's like. I think it's Roman fantasy. Yeah, it's like. It's like a. It's like a ste. It's like Game of Thrones, but steamier. You know, I think there's more and there's.
- [64:36]
Luke Burbank
Yeah, there's another. Our listeners are going to.
- [64:39]
Andrew Walsh
I kind of want to read it now.
- [64:40]
Luke Burbank
Kill me. Because there's. I shouldn't even try to guess at the writer's name, but I think her name might be like Sarah Moss or something. Not the one who wrote the Onyx stuff, but this other one that's like a Court of Thrones. And every plane I get on, somebody's reading.
- [64:54]
Andrew Walsh
What I love about it, though, is that it's like a totally organic phenomenon in the sense that there's no, like, advertisements, billboard. Like, no one pushed that, you know, which is. Which is what happened with. Things like that happened with 50 Shades of Gray. It happened with Hunger Games, it happened with Harry Potter. Like, all three of those were just like.
- [65:12]
Luke Burbank
Yeah.
- [65:13]
Andrew Walsh
Books went out into the world and they just captured something in people who then told other people. And there was no top down, big push. They just exploded.
- [65:22]
Luke Burbank
And was it Twilight? That was 50 shades of gray fanfic.
- [65:26]
Andrew Walsh
Other way around.
- [65:27]
Luke Burbank
Other way around. Fifty Shades. Fifty Shades was Twilight fanfic.
- [65:29]
Chris Hayes
They said, take out the vampire tires and you get yourself a deal, basically. Right.
- [65:33]
Luke Burbank
Wow. How. How is. How is the book doing? Are. Are you. Are you hitting the benchmarks? They went.
- [65:39]
Andrew Walsh
I think so.
- [65:39]
Chris Hayes
I mean, you gotta be.
- [65:41]
Andrew Walsh
I think so. I don't. Again, it's like, it's one of these things where you can't.
- [65:44]
Luke Burbank
You.
- [65:45]
Andrew Walsh
You can only control the inputs. You can't control the outputs. Yeah. So most. I've just been focusing on the fact that I'm just trying to get through my schedule every day.
- [65:53]
Chris Hayes
Well.
- [65:53]
Luke Burbank
Right. Yeah.
- [65:54]
Andrew Walsh
So, I mean, and do these events and. And get the show on the air and also try to just stay informed about what's happening during the day.
- [66:02]
Luke Burbank
Well, that's the thing too, because it's like you have so many jobs right now or so many things.
- [66:08]
Andrew Walsh
Sort of not as many jobs as you.
- [66:09]
Luke Burbank
But see, none of my jobs matter.
- [66:11]
Andrew Walsh
They all matter.
- [66:12]
Luke Burbank
No, no, that's. That's. No, but what I mean is you're Trying to interpret what is potentially very dangerous news of world events involving a mad person. I don't want to Gender madman. Yeah, we could get.
- [66:26]
Andrew Walsh
Thank you.
- [66:27]
Luke Burbank
There's a whole range of ways that people can be met.
- [66:31]
Andrew Walsh
I was at this church last night. God, these people were so amazing. It was Cavalry Presbyterian San Francisco. And the pastor was there. They were hosting the event along with the bookstores. 800 people in this church. And just a bunch of the parishioners were there, you know, and they're just like, just salt of the earth, like wonderful, gracious, kind people.
- [66:51]
Luke Burbank
Not necessarily. These people were by definition people of faith, but I would imagine there's some amount of that.
- [66:56]
Andrew Walsh
No, they weren't. Like, the people I was talking to were parishioners.
- [66:59]
Luke Burbank
Like the best expression. The best of what? Christian love of what a religious life should look like.
- [67:04]
Andrew Walsh
And one of them had a. Had a button, you know, that was like, God, the original. They. Them, which I love. It's like. That's pretty good, actually.
- [67:14]
Luke Burbank
That's great. Yeah, that's actually.
- [67:16]
Andrew Walsh
Yeah, no, it was. It was awesome. But.
- [67:18]
Luke Burbank
But I guess what I mean is it's like for you, I can, again, on a very, very, very, so much lower level, identify with having a day where from the moment that you open your eyes, there are some group of people that are requiring your attention, feedback, and then it's stacked against another thing and another thing and another thing. And. But for you, it's like that the TV show you just hosted that so many people will see also involves potentially describing the future of the Middle East. So it's like not the kind of thing where you can just kind of like, you really can't phone it in. You got to do a. You really got to do a good job.
- [67:51]
Andrew Walsh
You do. And the other thing about the job is that you just have to be generally pretty knowledgeable, because if that happens at 7:00 or 7:15, you have to know enough about what's happening in Gaza and Palestinians, the Abraham Accords and what Mohammed bin Salman's conversations have been about, normalization and what the Arab League has said and all this stuff to make it. To be able to, you know, put it in context or talk about it. So it just requires being like, reading a lot.
- [68:26]
Luke Burbank
Yeah. I'm not sure what the plan is for tonight, if somebody's introducing us or if I'm introducing you, but that was something that I was actually going to probably mention, which is I'm constantly impressed and amazed at the number of different things that you actually have a pretty Deep knowledge on. And I get a lot of that through listening to the withpod. But it's just like, yeah, you. You really have somehow managed to wrap your brain around a lot of different topics in kind of a wide. You know, in a wide variety of subjects. And I guess you have to. But also your brain seems to be well suited to this.
- [68:58]
Andrew Walsh
Yeah, I like to. I like that. You know, I wouldn't. It's not like, super. It's deep enough. It's pretty deep, you know, but, yes, I like. You know, I like reading, learning about things, and I've always loved that. And I get. I feel lucky that that's basically my job, is to learn stuff. I mean, I was. I just went down the. You know, I went down this rabbit hole about the whole water system where he released these water from the two reservoirs. It's just all just fascinating how, like, California hydrology itself is, like, insanely complicated and fascinating and fraught politically, and battled over and who controls what.
- [69:37]
Chris Hayes
Oh, I've seen Chinatown.
- [69:38]
Andrew Walsh
Yeah, exactly. Little movie maybe you've heard of. But yeah, so it's. It's. It's a real. It's a pleasure and a privilege to be able to. That part of it feels like I get to, like, play a sport for a living almost because I enjoy it that much. I enjoy learning stuff, and then I enjoy telling people what I just learned, you know, that gives me a lot of joy.
- [70:01]
Luke Burbank
Yeah, I just. I just learned something on Sunday that I was with Addie, and I told her, watch out, world, your dad's got a new fact, which is that it's.
- [70:11]
Andrew Walsh
Going to get worn out.
- [70:12]
Luke Burbank
Oh, boy. I'll tell you what. People don't know that Astoria, Oregon is the. Where cable TV was invented. They hate to see me coming because I got a story. We were in this little. This little store, and they had a bumper sticker that said, Astoria, Oregon, home, or the original home of cable television.
- [70:32]
Andrew Walsh
That's amazing.
- [70:33]
Luke Burbank
And I was like, huh? And this actually super hipster woman who owns the store, we were like, what do you know about this? She goes, well, I made the bumper sticker. I go, really? She goes, yeah, I'll give you the short version. There was a big TV station here in Seattle. I don't know which one it was, but it might have been King 5. Anyway, it was one of the original TV stations on the west coast. And in Astoria, Oregon, they didn't have any television, but this guy wanted to watch tv, so he put an antenna on some building, the tallest building, and he ran A cable down into his apartment into a tv, and he could pick up the signal from Seattle. But then everybody started coming over to his apartment because they were so fascinated by it. And so then he was like, people, stop coming to my apartment. I need some peace. And so then the hotel said, well, maybe we'll put a TV in the lobby. And then so many people came to the hotel lobby that none of the people staying at the hotel could get to the front desk. So they took the TV out. But then the bars in Astoria started saying, we would like to have a lot of people here. So they all got TVs and this guy was running these cables. So this was like the first that anybody had thought to do that. Astoria, Oregon.
- [71:41]
Chris Hayes
That's a pretty old fact I wanted to make. I was ready.
- [71:44]
Luke Burbank
I'm workshopping. I'm still, you know, I'm still. I'm still kind of working out the kinks. But anyway. Okay, well, I don't want to sort of wear down your brain power any further. Your battery, your social battery.
- [71:58]
Andrew Walsh
My battery's high. I'm running high.
- [71:59]
Luke Burbank
Yeah. Do you get stronger from this, in other words, like for a limited duration of time, you almost get energized by the process?
- [72:06]
Andrew Walsh
Yeah, I like to do it and I like, you know, the biggest thing is I just miss my kids and my wife. I do really like, like being home with my family. So that's the heart. That's honestly the hardest part is just like the like. And I'm, you know, I'm very lucky. Like, I. My house is pretty comfortable. You know, I like to be there when you describe your schedule. Sometimes I get like a by proxy.
- [72:31]
Luke Burbank
Anxiety, but this is the difference. Nobody loves me. That's nobody's. Nobody is being. No, actually I do. I. I want to throw that out as the last thing. No, I'm very loved and I feel very lucky. But that is another thing too, Chris, that's just wild to me about your existence is all of the stuff that you do professionally and also personally. You and Andrew and I are constantly trading, like, I think you should leave memes. Like all this stuff is happening all the time and we're just. Andrew and I are just two people of, I'm sure a long list. In fact, tonight we'll talk about the group chat and can the group chat really save us? Which is from the book Horse, but.
- [73:05]
Chris Hayes
Like, I'll beep it.
- [73:08]
Luke Burbank
You enjoyed that, Phyllis. But it's. What's wild to me is that you are so incredibly prolific and then you also have this incredible family and this incredible spouse and like a super rich personal life. Usually your amount of professional success comes at the expense of any. Like I've met Ralph Nader. Okay, you're hung with Ralph Nader. I'm sure you have. I would say it's come at the expense of a personal life. And that is not you. You have like. You have such a rich personal life that that could be your whole thing.
- [73:44]
Andrew Walsh
Yeah, I mean, I. Partly. Well, I gotta say, like, partly that's just the luck and privilege and grace of like we have an au pair who's amazing and my parents live like there's a lot of that that is facilitated by a lot of labor by a lot of people. But yeah, I'm really lucky. Like, Kate and I both work really hard, but also both. We just both really love being parents. We really do. And we like. And. And not. That's not true of everyone. People feel differently about it. Doesn't. People can not love it and still be, I think good parents or people have different relationships to it at different ages.
- [74:18]
Luke Burbank
With kids.
- [74:18]
Andrew Walsh
Some people don't love really little kids and they love 10 year olds people. People go through a hard time in teenage years and maybe that'll be what I just have found. I just genuinely love being a dad.
- [74:29]
Luke Burbank
You got lucky though, that they're cute kids.
- [74:31]
Andrew Walsh
They are cute kids.
- [74:32]
Luke Burbank
I mean, very cute. Mother nature really stepped in to protect.
- [74:35]
Andrew Walsh
They're very cute kids and they're little life. They're doing really fun stuff. And. And so yeah, that's. And you know, but it's. Yeah, it's a lot like Kate, you know, Kate's working in Philly now and so she's traveling. The household schedule is, you know, my daughter's commuting onto. You know, there's a lot now.
- [74:51]
Luke Burbank
Do you have. If I can ask and if this is too much information, feel free to demure or we will just cut it out. But you have like a podcasting studio now at your place, right?
- [75:02]
Andrew Walsh
Yep.
- [75:02]
Luke Burbank
And your wife is also one of the hosts of a very successful podcast. Strict scrutiny and does a million media hits, all based on her career. Do you guys have like. Is this the family podcasting studio?
- [75:13]
Andrew Walsh
Yes, it's a family podcast.
- [75:14]
Luke Burbank
I love this. What a 2025 phenomenon.
- [75:17]
Andrew Walsh
Exactly. We made this joke because the house that we're in, it's in the like the lowest level of the house, which is like the proper like cellar. Right. It's not a basement there because nothing. It's like all the way down, which is Perfect place to put something like this. And this little thing had been at one point, not in the previous owners, but the previous owner before that in the 70s, like a little, like steam room.
- [75:37]
Luke Burbank
Like a Roman bath.
- [75:39]
Andrew Walsh
Like a sort of Roman bath.
- [75:40]
Chris Hayes
I think you showed some photos when you were ripping it apart.
- [75:42]
Andrew Walsh
Yeah, it was just like, we were like, so weird and also so 70s to put one of those in your house. And then we were like, how, how 20, 25 is it to have a. Like when we're. If we're selling the house in 30 years and we're like, when everyone has like, you know, AI neuralinks in their head or whatever, it's just gonna be such a hilarious timestamp to be like, this is where we did our podcast.
- [76:04]
Luke Burbank
A total, like atomic ranch house.
- [76:06]
Andrew Walsh
Exactly.
- [76:07]
Luke Burbank
With like, the wife is pulling the perfectly perfect podcast.
- [76:14]
Andrew Walsh
Totally.
- [76:14]
Luke Burbank
Like a podcast in every home.
- [76:16]
Andrew Walsh
Exactly. It's so funny to imagine explaining that.
- [76:20]
Luke Burbank
Yeah. Oh, man, that's great.
- [76:22]
Chris Hayes
Well, how soon before the kids get on the podcast are you implementing them yet?
- [76:26]
Andrew Walsh
Because we try to, like, be mindful about their, you know, I mean, I.
- [76:31]
Luke Burbank
Hope they start their own podcast.
- [76:32]
Chris Hayes
Yeah.
- [76:33]
Andrew Walsh
Pretty soon probably. In fact, one of them had a podcasting class at school, which is pretty funny. Or like an extracurricular thing.
- [76:38]
Chris Hayes
Could I audit that?
- [76:42]
Luke Burbank
Are they interested in, you know, going into like the media or performance in some way or living a kind of a public life like you have, and.
- [76:52]
Chris Hayes
To some degree, cadence?
- [76:53]
Andrew Walsh
I think they have different relationships to it, I think. Yeah. And they're, they're, they're young enough that I don't think. I mean, like, like, you said this the other day on the show about how, like, when you were 10, you were like, I'm going to be an NBA player. Like, that's what I want to do. And my 10 year old son, that's what if you ask him.
- [77:09]
Luke Burbank
Yeah. I did ask to be part of the Doncic trade. I asked to be the player to be named much later.
- [77:15]
Andrew Walsh
One way to make this trade even more insane.
- [77:18]
Chris Hayes
Much later.
- [77:19]
Andrew Walsh
Portland podcaster and media celebrity also also.
- [77:24]
Luke Burbank
Thrown into the deal one time, North Seattle Christian Lion.
- [77:28]
Chris Hayes
Now I understand why people are freaking out.
- [77:30]
Luke Burbank
Phenom. Yeah, we could. You must have been thinking this today when you were racing to do your TV show and Trump is absolutely upending the Middle East. Why couldn't he have said something about the Doncic trade? Why couldn't he have just said something unhinged about a fun topic?
- [77:45]
Andrew Walsh
Someone was like, someone had a tweet that was like, he was oh, what did he say? He said the Doncic trade, Elon Musk in the Treasury, Trump and Kanye, they're all related, but I have to get more mentally ill to figure it out. I was like, that is such a perfect encapsulation of online life.
- [78:10]
Luke Burbank
Well, I have to say, Chris, it's been heartening for me to hear you say that in promoting this book and touring around and being in spaces with people, you feel like you're seeing some people get up off the mat.
- [78:24]
Chris Hayes
Like, that's.
- [78:24]
Luke Burbank
That's like, honestly that, like, put some. Put some pep in my step, because it's just been. I mean, not saying anything, but it's been pretty brutal.
- [78:31]
Andrew Walsh
I think you guys have been. I really have been. You guys have been great on. On all this, and I. I just. Very honest. And I think it's been a good space for, like, you guys did a very good job of, like, not. You're not doing a politics show, but you're also not going to, like, not say it. And I think just expressing this weird feeling of relationship to the news and, like, just the bad feeling and like, that, you know, and how to navigate that. I think it's very. It's sort of important just in almost talk therapy terms, to express it because I think it. It takes the power away from it.
- [79:03]
Luke Burbank
A little bit, and it's on a whole other level for you because I'm often repeating your opinions.
- [79:07]
Andrew Walsh
I love when I.
- [79:08]
Luke Burbank
Why is this happening?
- [79:09]
Andrew Walsh
I love it.
- [79:09]
Luke Burbank
I mean, honestly, because. And I say it on our show all the. I guess this is our show technically, but, like, yeah, your podcast is just like it is. I listen to it the second it's dropped, like, Tuesday morning. It's like the first thing that I listen to, and I always learn something, so I recommend everyone check it out. So you can repeat Chris Hayes isms and his guests to your friends and seem smart and informed.
- [79:35]
Andrew Walsh
I'm gonna use that cable thing.
- [79:36]
Luke Burbank
Yeah, yeah, dude. Astoria, Oregon.
- [79:38]
Andrew Walsh
I got that in the back box.
- [79:40]
Luke Burbank
Yeah, sure. Break that out next time you're on. You know, Jimmy. Jimmy Kimmel.
- [79:45]
Chris Hayes
Exactly. He.
- [79:46]
Luke Burbank
Seth.
- [79:47]
Andrew Walsh
No, I got a fun one for you.
- [79:49]
Luke Burbank
Yeah, exactly. Well, Chris Hayes. Thanks, man.
- [79:51]
Andrew Walsh
Thanks, guys.
- [79:52]
Chris Hayes
Thanks, man. Appreciate it. There's a right way to rock, a.
- [79:57]
Luke Burbank
Wrong way to roll.
- [79:59]
Chris Hayes
You can't just listen to your song.
- [80:02]
Luke Burbank
Just remember that life is number one.
- [80:07]
Chris Hayes
You can be having so much fun.
- [80:10]
Luke Burbank
Just.
- [80:10]
Chris Hayes
Just remember the life is much fun. You can be nothing number one. All right, Lucals, we got some blurs days here if you want to wish anybody A happy birthday. You can email me andrewbtl.net and put blurs day in the subject line. Our pal Jesse in Cincinnati says, could you please wish a happy blursday to Maggie in Delaware? She's a wonderful person, wife and mother. Happy blursday, Maggie.
- [80:46]
Luke Burbank
I feel like we're not over indexed, but we get a good assortment of Maggies.
- [80:51]
Chris Hayes
It is true, because when you said.
- [80:53]
Luke Burbank
Maggie, a handful of other Maggies came to mind.
- [80:56]
Chris Hayes
Swarthmore, middle shelf. Yeah, a lot of mags. Happy blurs you to Maggie in Delaware. Also, Deborah says, shouting out a blurs day for my awesome cousin and blursday buddy, Carolyn. Now, when we say blurs day buddy here, does that mean it's also Deborah's blurs day as well? Is this a dual blurs?
- [81:18]
Luke Burbank
They share the same blurs day or thereabouts?
- [81:22]
Chris Hayes
Well, happy blursday to Carolyn for sure. And maybe to Deborah. Deborah says, hoping you have a fabulous day and that bugs spoils you rotten.
- [81:32]
Luke Burbank
Not bugs spoil your rotten. That S is doing a lot of lifting. Because if bugs spoil your rotten, you've got a problem.
- [81:39]
Chris Hayes
Yes, you need.
- [81:40]
Luke Burbank
We need to call the medical examiner.
- [81:42]
Chris Hayes
Exactly.
- [81:42]
Luke Burbank
Bugs spoils you rotten. And it sounds like a really fun Thursday.
- [81:47]
Chris Hayes
Good clarification. Yes. You know what to do, Bugs. And finally, we're keeping it short today, Luke. Thank you. Because the universe is. Because you're running to the bathroom.
- [81:58]
Luke Burbank
Well, not running, but what I would say is I can feel that one more trip wouldn't be the worst thing before I go down there. Then that's it. I didn't get into it at the beginning of the show. It's probably just as well that it's tucked back here in the blurs days. But I'm also very, very, very concerned that that region of my body is at its absolute most pristine. I'm rarely lying on a table with multiple people observing that part of my body. And by rarely, I mean never.
- [82:25]
Chris Hayes
Oh, wow. So you haven't been to one of Genevieve's parties.
- [82:27]
Luke Burbank
So not. Not in a couple of years. Things have really changed. Everyone's in a horse mask now. But I. So I'm also, like, really obsessively you know, hygienically dealing with that part of my body. Like, I. I probably should have just waited to take a shower before until, like, I was getting in the car to go over there. I took a shower right before we did this recording and. But I do have wet wipes. I am. I'm. I'm threatening the future of my septic tank by using some wet wipes. I really. If I can't get a clean. If I can't get the good boy award for the inside of my colon, I would like to at least get the good boy award for the outside of my colon.
- [83:07]
Chris Hayes
So really quick story here that's related to this, and I think it's going to make you feel better. We recently had a new stove and oven installed right in our house here. And this house we bought about two and a half years ago, we believe it was a rental property before that. So a lot of people probably coming and going and living in this house over the years. The stove that we replaced was old, and so stoves and like, the areas around them just get pretty gross anyway unless you really stay on top of it. And I was very nervous about what lies beneath when the workers came here to remove the old stove and bring the new one inside. And so I cleaned around it as best I could, and then they pulled the stove out and I was standing there. I'm just. I think I said to both of them, just, I'm very nervous about this. I don't want you to see what's under this. We're. We're clean people. We're clean people. And they pulled it out and they're like, oh, my. And I saw, you know, there's a lot of black gunk under there that had to be cleaned up. I don't even know if it was black. There's a lot of, like, you know, stuff had accumulated. But even by my eye, it wasn't as bad as what I was picturing down there. And they were like, oh, buddy, this is. Is great. Like, you wouldn't believe. You wouldn't believe the things that we see when we pull out stoves. Like, you, you. You are doing so great, my pal. And like, we saw one the other day that was wet under there for some reason. Figure out. And the other guy. Yeah, yeah. So, anyway, I just want you to know that I have a strong feeling that, like, the fact that you're even putting this much care into it means your. Underneath your stove is going to be very clean compared to what these professionals have seen in the past.
- [84:41]
Luke Burbank
I'm. I'm. It's very important to me. Again, I don't. I don't know what the bill of health will be, but I need the. I need the cleaning. I need the. Who's the department that handles that kind of stuff. I need a clean bill of health from the department of clean butts.
- [84:57]
Chris Hayes
Well, also, I don't know if this is good news or bad news, but it's my understanding that the guys who moved my stove are also the guys who are giving you the colonoscopy.
- [85:05]
Luke Burbank
So, you know, is it turbo time?
- [85:07]
Chris Hayes
I believe it's turbo time.
- [85:08]
Luke Burbank
Is that why I was having problems? Is that just a joke toilet for farts?
- [85:12]
Chris Hayes
All right, one more blurs day here for an unfortunate person who just left through that conversation. Aaron with two A's. A. A. Ron would like to request a very happy birthday to Terry. After what was about six years, the TBTL pen pals finally brought these two friends together. She's amazing. A kindness upon this world, and you should get to know her. Thank you for getting chowder with me, Terry. Happy birthday. That's from Aaron to Terry.
- [85:40]
Luke Burbank
I used this sarcastically at first, but now I'm using it genuinely. That's sweet. Also, I would. I would absolutely fight a nun for some chowder right now.
- [85:51]
Chris Hayes
Oh, my God. I shouldn't have said chowder.
- [85:53]
Luke Burbank
That's all right. No, it's. It was in the. It was in the message blurs days.
- [85:58]
Chris Hayes
Manhattan chowder. I haven't had Manhattan chowder since I was a child.
- [86:01]
Luke Burbank
What's that? It's a red.
- [86:02]
Chris Hayes
It's a red. Red. Yeah. You can't have that now, obviously, but I'm just. Just curious of your thoughts on that. But again, you know what? Maybe we should not be talking about food right now, because I'm getting drinking.
- [86:10]
Luke Burbank
I'm fine, honestly. I'm in the home stretch now. Like, I can't even drink water at this point. This is. No liquids. No. I don't think I can have hard candy. Not that I've got a bunch of hard candy around, but, like, yeah, I think. Well, there was a period where you can have hard candy, but it's like. But nothing with red number five in it. So now we're down to it. Now it's. No liquids shall pass my lips until I'm coming out of this procedure.
- [86:35]
Chris Hayes
Well, good luck with your fart transplant.
- [86:40]
Luke Burbank
We'll have a full report tomorrow, so please do tune in for that. In the meantime, have a great Thursday, and please remember, no mountain too tall.
- [86:47]
Chris Hayes
And good luck to all, but especially you.
- [86:50]
Luke Burbank
I'll take it.
- [87:00]
Chris Hayes
Power out.