B (3:14)

If God wanted us to listen to audiobooks, she wouldn't have given us eyes to watch tv.

A (3:19)

So we'll probably discuss that as well. And of course, we'll talk to this guy. Longest running cobra of the show, maybe best known for his depictions of the tall ship. It's Tom Bondarley, king of the dirty songs. He's Andrew Walsh, and he's joining me right now. Good morning, my friend.

B (3:32)

Good morning, jazz man. How you doing? Is your voice a little smokier than usual? A little huskier?

A (3:38)

Yeah. Think Miles Davis, but sexier.

B (3:40)

Oh, wow. I can't.

A (3:42)

I try to. I have.

B (3:45)

I've failed. So your record player came. You got it hooked up into your. It's not a Bose system, it's the other one. So no Sonos?

A (3:55)

Yes. Yeah, I. I went onto the Internet and I tried to research what the. What record player is most compatible with that system. They don't actually make a record player. I'm sure most people at this point are familiar with, like, the idea of this kind of, like, Sonos wireless speaker situation. I think their big breakthrough was, and I'm sure there are many, many other, you know, companies that do the same thing. But I don't know, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, they were the only ones who had figured out how to create sort of a, like, shadow WI FI network at one's home that allowed all of the speakers to talk to each other and for you to control them from your phone. So you could have, you know, speakers all over in your house, but they don't have to all be wired to.

B (4:41)

Each other, and they're not Bluetooth.

A (4:44)

Now, here's the thing. They have now moved into that mode with the newer speakers, and that's where the record player comes in. Because I. I basically have this cabinet that's sort of perfect for me to put a record player in, but I did not want to run a bunch of RCA cables or whatever I would need from the cabinet out to some other. I don't want the speakers to the record player to also be in a cabinet that needs to have the doors open in order for me to be playing the music. So I needed a way for the record player to talk to speakers elsewhere. And I have all these Sonos speakers in my house now. And so on the Sonos website, they said, this is the kind to buy. And it was like a very expensive record player. And I was like, that's too much, too rich for my blood. But I found something that was similar to it on, unfortunately, on Amazon.com and ordered it. And basically what it is is just a record player that has Bluetooth. And it turns out two of the Sonos speakers I have, the two most recent ones I purchased also have Bluetooth. So I'm just using them like a Bluetooth speaker. They're not. I can't play the record player in, let's say, the tiny upstairs bathroom that has a speaker in it. I can't as of right. Unless I were to buy another device, which is this box that Sonos sells that, like, basically turns the record player. It allows it to broadcast to all of the speakers. But I don't want to invest another $400 in this process because last night Andrew was just fine.

B (6:09)

Because it's a pretty rare. I mean, just. Sorry to interrupt, but I was just gonna say it's a pretty rare case that, like, except for you're throwing a party and you want music all over your house, and it's all coming from the record player. Like, there's very little chance of you needing to be able to listen to the records upstairs in your tiny bathroom, knowing that you're gonna have to flip it in 20 minutes anyway. Right.

A (6:31)

Exactly. Like, it's. I don't see. Also, this record player is. I'm really happy with it. Well, first of all, I'm really happy that it just paired with the Bluetooth speaker because this is so in the weeds. But basically, the record player doesn't have a particular interface, nor does the Bluetooth speaker, because it's not using it as a Sonos product. In other words, I can't go on, like, an app and go, hey, here's the record player and here's the Bluetooth speaker. Can you guys talk to each other? It's kind of flying blind.

B (7:00)

Yeah.

A (7:01)

I press a button on the record player that says Bluetooth and it's sending a signal. And then I'm pressing a button over on this Sonos speaker that's portable, and I'm hoping that they'll just work it out because I don't have any way to, like, do a, like a speed dating session between these two devices. You know, and it worked. So I was very happy with it. But it is a couple of things. One, it is very, very. The record player is very sensitive. It's on some like little four shock mounts, you know, So I think it's. It's designed to try to be sort of somewhat forgiving to if you were walking around near it. But I'll tell you, if you bump the device at all, it's going to kind of respond. And it gave me powerful flashbacks. In fact, it re. Traumatized me to. Back when I bought my first ever Discman, which wasn't a Discman. I believe it was made by the Phillips company. And it was ostensibly and allegedly a portable compact disc player. But it was so sensitive, I might as well have just had a regular size CD player that you would have had, like, on a shelf in your house and just been carrying it around as it just absolutely destroyed batteries. Like, it was just a battery eater. But if I put it down, I remember bringing it in. I've told the story not that long ago on the show. I remember bringing it into my first day or the first day I had it, bringing it into school at Jesus Creek and being so flipping excited. I think the one CD I might have had was March by Michael Penn, which I had stolen from my friend Peter's sister. I walked in, actually, I might have had UB40 labor of love too. Maybe that's what it was. But I walked into to lunch and I put this gigantic CD player down on the lunch table. And just like, the idea was like, I'm just gonna be in my own world vibing with UB40 labor of love too. See you later, suckers. Like, and every time someone would even, like, sit down anywhere at this lunch table, it was just like, totally skipping because I had no proper shock. Whatever.

B (8:51)

All that is to say, more buffering. You need more.

A (8:53)

Yeah, Well, I mean, it had nothing to, you know.

B (8:57)

Do you remember that, though, people?

A (8:58)

Oh, yeah.

B (8:59)

Oh, yeah.

A (8:59)

The more. Oh, my God, like, the more buffering you had, the bigger the flex.

B (9:03)

Oh, yeah, yeah. No more. More buffing for the puff.

A (9:06)

And yeah, I've got like two hours of buff of buffering on this.

B (9:10)

Yeah. All right, Sting, calm down.

A (9:11)

Yeah, like Sting. I'm getting tantric with this buffering. All that is to say, I don't see it being the case that if I were to be having a wild hoot nanny at my house, the way that I'd be playing, the music would be on the record player. So therefore the fact that it only kind of works with this one portable. Although this is a very robust portable speaker as well. It's like, it's sizable. And the idea behind this portable speaker was this Sonos is I did not want to mount a bunch of speakers outside my house on the deck, A, because of expense and B, because I just thought that would be a hassle. But I thought all I need to do is get a Sonos bluetoothable portable speaker that I can bring out on the deck so that if I am listening to music everywhere in the house and I want to be listening outside, I just bring this thing with me and it's synced into what's going on. That's the idea of this one particular speaker that the record player now talks to. But I got this thing out of the box yesterday. And it's one of those things where I needed to go down to town and run some errands. I needed to go to a couple places before they closed. And the record player got delivered at like 4. And I was like, don't mess with it. Leave it alone. Just go down to town, get to the place you have to get to before they close at 5. Do your thing. And I was like, well, let me just take it. Let me just take a. Take a look. See, Let me just make sure it's in here, because if it's not, I need to return it. So let me just see if. And then it was like, you know, just pulling on a thread. It was like, okay, now the box is open. Now it's like, well, let's just. I don't know, let's just make sure all the components are. The next thing, you know, I'm just like setting this whole entire thing up.

B (10:41)

Did you have to do the thing? Does there a little, like, counterweight with a little piece of fishing line that you have to hang over to, like, counterweight the arm.

A (10:48)

It was attached. You mean like on the back of where the stylus is the needle?

B (10:52)

Yeah, in the back of the arm. Mine. But I had to assemble mine. Like, I remember mine was on there. And like, and then you have to adjust like the weight or whatever. But I remember, like stringing this. It came all, you know, all the parts were there, but I had to install that little, like the actual free floating counterweight myself. I felt like quite the engineer after that.

A (11:11)

Well, mine was already on there. But, you know, what I did have to do was put the belt. There's a little rubber belt. And I don't know if this is how it was with yours, but you've got this small little round, basically, I guess the wheel, the motor that's then turning this larger thing that the record is sitting on, right? And there are two slots. I didn't realize this, but there's a larger slot or a larger groove and a smaller groove on the thing that's turning on the silver, smaller round thing. It's got two little grooves on it. And then you put this rubber belt around there and then around this larger one. And that's again what the record is sitting on. And I didn't realize, but this is how you control whether it's a. What is a 33 or 77 or whatever. Whatever.

B (11:59)

33 or 45.

A (12:00)

33 or 45. Sorry. And so I'm all excited. Like part of the whole thing with this is what is the first? And this is. If you just want to view into my particular brand of brain rot. Ever since I ordered the record player, the question has been what is the first record I'm gonna play? What's the first song that will emanate from this device? Why does that matter? I have no idea. But I was just like, this is like. It's like a ribbon cutting or something, like, what bottle of champagne am I gonna smash over this record player as I inaugurate it? Or whatever. So I get it all set up and it comes together pretty quickly and mercifully pairs with the Bluetooth device. I'm like, oh my gosh, this is incredible. I thought it was going to be way bigger hassle. I assumed there was going to be at least two or three points where I was like, well, this doesn't work. You know, like I'm deep in some subreddit about how do I make this record player talk to this Sonos system or whatever. And so I, I'm not proud of this choice. I feel like this choice has been denigrated by the rise of the movie. A complete unknown. Because I do love Bob Dylan, which has never been the edgiest take. But I feel like it's gotten duller in the last six months. Does that make sense? Like, like liking Bob Dylan was never a personality. And it's never like you're, you're, you're, you're, you're on something that a lot of people aren't on. But it feels especially basic and predictable this very moment. And I blame you for ruining the idea of that movie for me. I've now not seen it because of how.

B (13:28)

What I. I've never seen that movie.

A (13:30)

No. And you. And you had no Intention on it. You made that very clear.

B (13:33)

Oh, I see. Just. Just my rejection of that style. Yeah. I'm just not a big biopic person. I know people have said, like, it kind of breaks the format in that it's not like a biopic of the whole life. It's just one section of his life. But, yeah, I. I'm. I'm not personally interested, but I'm not trying to ruin other people's joy. You are, though, and you did what I'm doing here.

A (13:51)

No, but actually, what happened was you sort of said, yeah, I'm not really into those kind of biopics. It's not for me. And then I read, like, some review that basically restated your point.

B (14:00)

I kind of heard.

A (14:01)

Yeah, it was kind of like two. Like, two things happened in quick succession that made me like it. It. Something shifted inside me around that movie. Not that, you know, I like Timothy Shalamet a lot, actually. I think he's a really interesting fellow. But all that is to say, I end up going with Bob Dylan. I think it's like blood on the tracks. And I. It was mostly I just wanted to play a record. I was leafing through that. I almost went with Vashti Bunyan. Remember she had that song that was on. I think it was in Patriot.

B (14:33)

Yeah. That was the theme song of Patriot. Yeah.

A (14:35)

Oh, was it this theme song?

B (14:36)

Right. So I got. Do you remember we ended up starting. For our recap podcast, the very, very first episode, we played the wrong song.

A (14:43)

Oh, that became a whole thing. Yes.

B (14:44)

We literally started our first episode with. Or maybe we didn't start it. Maybe we did a breakdown. The first thing we did on the show is break down the theme music.

A (14:51)

And it was the wrong song.

B (14:53)

You had gotten. It's a. Is it. Is it she. Yeah. Yeah. And you had gotten into her music, and you had forgotten which one was the theme song. And I didn't even notice either. And we're, like, breaking down a song by her. I know it wasn't. We stumbled out of the game.

A (15:08)

Humiliating.

B (15:08)

But you know what? I think that. That.

A (15:10)

So I was, like, gonna do. Maybe do Vashti. But I was like. I felt like you wearing a hat of a team. You don't really follow. I was like, can I. I can't break in this record player with this. The only record I know from this person, because I saw it on a TV show. This is. I'm. I'm doing this calculation in my head. I end up landing on Bob Dylan. I put it on. I dropped the Stylus. You hear that? Iconic. I can't make the sound. But you know the sound of a needle on a record player before there's any sound happening, any, you know, recorded music, which is. Why is that so soothing? What is it about that. That sound? That is. It. It speaks to the human condition. And then Alvin and the Chipmunks start doing Bob Dylan.

B (15:50)

You're on 45.

A (15:52)

I was on the rock because I didn't. I hadn't read that far into the directions. I didn't even realize. Two different grooves. Grooves on here, that I. And I had it on the wrong one. They looked indistinguishable to me from each other.

B (16:05)

I'm a little confused. So are you saying you made a mistake when you. You can't set up the record player to only play 45s or 33s? There must be a switch or something, right?

A (16:13)

No, there's no switch on this one.

B (16:14)

So you have to take off the plate and then readjust the.

A (16:18)

You don't. Not on the plate. The plate stays where it is. It's the other thing. Imagine a small gear and a big gear. Okay.

B (16:25)

And they're exposed. They're on the outside. You don't have to take it.

A (16:28)

Gear is exposed.

B (16:29)

Yeah. Okay.

A (16:30)

So if you want to change the speed, you have to. I don't. This is a weird system, by the way. I don't understand this. Why. This is what they do with this particular record player. But the. The small gear is exposed at all times, and you, I guess, would just move the band, which, by the way, I don't like because it's a rubber band. It seems like you're really asking for wear and tear. Yeah.

B (16:50)

I wonder if that's a fancier thing. I gotta say. Mine, I get. I don't know anything about your record player, but I guarantee you it's fancier than mine. So maybe that's a fancy thing. Although I will say, you know, mine just has the belt. And then I put. When I assembled it, I set up the belt and I put it back together. The belt is not exposed in any way, so I can't do that. But I will say on my little record player, it has a knob that clicks just on and off for the actual, you know, motor turning. And then a knob to switch it from 45 to 33. And the knobs are so satisfying. Like, I have not bought a. Bought. And this was a gift, actually, from Genevieve on Christmas, but I have not, like, bought or received a piece of modern technology. You know, mine's A Bluetooth one as well. It's not some old archaic thing, but it actually has knobs that feel like 1980s knobs.

A (17:36)

Like, I think you might have a nice. I think you might have a nicer one than I do because mine just has like a. A little button on the side which, like, literally is on the side of the thing that just is like a rocker button that starts the. You know, the. The turntable turning. And then on the other side of the. Of the thing is the same kind of a switch, but it's for the Bluetooth. And it's. It's a very minimalist design. But I think this might be one of those things where it's like, sometimes you stay at a hotel that is. They're using minimalism as a cover for just not having very many comforts.

B (18:08)

Right, right, exactly. I can hear my neighbor as well. It's a minimalist wall.

A (18:13)

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I kind of. I wonder if the one that I bought. I mean, this was like a few hundred bucks. I don't know how much yours was retailing for. There were fancier ones. But I am. I'm weirdly proud of myself that I did not go for something much more expensive. Because I was like, I need to see if I. Even if this is something that is useful in my life.

B (18:32)

Yeah.

A (18:33)

By the way, Andrew, if you were wondering, the Chipmunks did not record a version of Tangled up in Blue. I just checked because I was gonna try to find an Alvin and the Chipmunks cover of Tangled up in Blue, but it did not. It. This has never occurred, so I can't.

B (18:45)

Haven't covered any Bob Dylan at all.

A (18:48)

I bet they've covered something.

B (18:50)

I'll bet you Bob Dylan wouldn't release the rights.

A (18:52)

Chipmunks.

B (18:53)

Mr. Tambourine Man. Wait, hold on. Did they actually. Hold on. Let's try. We're gonna get pulled down.

A (18:58)

Hell, yeah.

B (18:58)

Oh, shit. This is real. This is from the Chipmunks. A go go. Yes. I'm not even joking. This is a real thing. We're totally getting pulled down. How was I not for that? I. I hit play on that. I knew what I was doing. Yeah. I was fully, emotionally and intellectually unprepared for what just happened.

A (19:35)

That's. That's something I'll never unhear. I'm really concerned that the essence and.

B (19:42)

The soul of the song.

A (19:45)

I mean, the protest movement, the tectonic shift in American culture between the youth and the establishment, all of the things that Bob Dylan stood for, I think, are encapsulated there by Simon and Theodore.

B (20:00)

My apologies to the listeners because I am looking at the wav file that we are recording now. I blew out my microphone there. I am so sorry. I can tell that that sounds like garbage. But that was pure. I don't know why I was so shocked. I was just talking to you, queuing it up and just hearing a pretty standard intro, kind of the more birdsy intro of that song. And then all of a sudden I guess I just forgot what I was playing. Okay, I'm good.

A (20:24)

I'm also like. I'm out of breath. I feel a little dizzy from that, honestly.

B (20:29)

You're also a little under the weather. I shouldn't be pulling that on you anyway.

A (20:31)

Oh my golly.

B (20:32)

Oh my goodness. So what did you put? So you're playing the.

A (20:34)

You're playing Bob Dylan and it's, it's. It's in the wrong. Whatever. Speed, pitch. So that was kind of a bummer. I didn't get to have my whole thing. But that's fine. I figured out what was going on. I got it working at a proper speed. And then I got the, like the. The turntable itself placed in this. In this cabinet that I have. That's like one level. This is this really cool kind of built in cabinet that my dad made that's got the record player on one level and, and it has power behind it. This was where the whole idea came from. Because the wall that we. The corner of my kind of. I don't know what you call dining room area that this is built into already had power. So my dad cleverly cut out. He routered out a spot in the back of this cabinetry that is just flush or you know, it's exactly where the outlet is. Because otherwise it'd be. I wouldn't even thought of this because there would be. Why would there be power to this cabinet in this way? But it seemed very convenient for this. So I got the turntable there on this level. The level below it is where all the records are. But there's just enough room on the turntable level of this to place. I was telling you the other day, like, it's kind of like. It's like the active roster of the records. It's like the. It's like the, the starting nine and then the bullpen and everyone else is down on the lower level. So right now like up in the starting nine is like a John Prine record. Bruised orange, of course, because I love that. I got the tattoo. It's. It's Alvin and The Chipmunks cover John Baez and it's.

B (22:05)

Paradise. Wait, that's not bias.

A (22:07)

Close enough. I couldn't, you know what? I honestly couldn't name a Jomba song. So I should have gone with Joni Mitchell. That would have been, that would have been a better poll. But, and you know, so I've got like these and, and so anyway, last night, all this is to say that, oh, by the way, you got me on a pizza pizza party kick with.

B (22:26)

All your pizza talk yesterday.

A (22:29)

But you know, I'm trying to, I'm trying to find ways to eat things that are tasty but also have fewer overly processed things. So I decided I would, I would make my own pizza, but I would try to do it in the sort of healthiest way possible. Which is basically means, I guess I went to the Safeway, I bought like a. One of those refrigerated whole wheat doughs that they've got like in a bag.

B (22:52)

Have you had them before?

A (22:53)

Maybe a long time ago. I probably wouldn't have opted for the whole wheat previously, but I was reading something somewhere which like basically think about what pizza is. If you go with, let's say you go with a whole wheat crust, which by the way was delicious. If you go to the whole wheat crust and some tomato sauce and some cheese and some toppings that are veggies, you're really not going too crazy there. Like, I mean, again, I'm not getting into judging what anybody eats. But the way that you can go, the way I've gone off the rails historically with pizza is, well, it's an extra large pizza, but it's like also got a bunch of, you know, mozzarella sticks on the side or back in the day for me, buffalo wings and it's pepperoni. And I always like, can I could God make a pizza so healthy that even he wouldn't like it? It's the age old question.

B (23:40)

I don't know if that's too long for a show title, but I'm writing it down.

A (23:44)

But so, but no, because you really got me thinking about pizza. So I, I went down to Safeway and got, I was actually happy that they had this. They had it in whole wheat, which I'm My big project now is to. It was tasty, but I was reading the, the ingredients list and it was still. There's still like a lot of stuff in there that I didn't recognize. Probably to just make it more like shelf stable and easier to deal with.

B (24:10)

This is just the crust.

A (24:11)

This is just the crust. Just, and it's like a ball of dough. It's just a ball and it's in a bag and you know, so it's not even, it's not like a bobo lee or something. It's like. And when I was reading all the ingredients, I was like, I bet you that there is a version of this that's literally like whole wheat flour and water and a little bit of like olive oil or something. I bet you there's a very, very, very simplistic version of this that I could learn how to make and then really, really get this thing down to something that's actually not particularly bad for me. But anyway, I made the pizza last night and it was delicious. It was very satisfying. I was like chopping up. I'm sort of send you a picture of this. It seemed like a picture that you would take. Andrew. I was, I was chopping up all of my toppings but I have these little, I'm very big on mise en place these days. It's kind of like the only way, I mean I wouldn't say this was really cooking, this was applying heat to a pre made dough with some cheese and sauce on it. But when I am trying to cook something, the only way that I can really do it is to figure out exactly the measurements of everything and then separate out those amounts of the things in different little bowls. And I had bought these bowls at Crate and Barrel a long time ago that I absolutely love. They're like, they're, I'll send them to you, they're perfect for, for setting up your cooking, whatever you're going to do, you know, like your little ingredients and stuff. And so I'm making the pizza. I've got my mise en place going. I've got my chopped up basil and my, my, my black olives and my green peppers in these little colorful bowls. And I'm listening to vinyl records and I swear to God, something inside me shifted because the normal thing I would be doing at this moment, and by the way, this may change when baseball season comes around and things like that, or when it's a Tuesday night and our friend television's Chris Hayes is broadcasting again. But like, I'm not saying anything particularly original, we've in fact even talked about this recently on the show as it relates to vinyl. And I want to also say that there is nothing more basic than a guy of my age getting really into playing records. It is probably the least interesting thing I could be doing. But there was something limiting about the putting on of These records. I listened to a Band of Horses record. I listened to a Johnny Cash record. What else did I listen to? There was something the Chipmunks do.

B (26:32)

Phil Oaks.

A (26:33)

Yep. I was like, it's, it's what we've been saying recently about the whole experience of playing a record. Verse. Because I have Sonos and the Sonos is attached to my Spotify. It's attached to every piece of music that's ever been practically made in history. And there's something about putting a record on and the hassle associated with it and then walking over to chop up these olives and knowing that I'm not going to go back and oh, you know, I listen to like this is a very weird. This is not in keeping with what you'd be imagining. I have like Random Access Memories by Daft Punk Vinyl. I was playing that, which was great.

B (27:11)

I was telling you, I think I told you the other day I got that first MGMT record on vinyl a couple of weeks ago that I think that's the reason I had people over. I was so excited to have that record. I said, you guys got to come over and listen to this 10 year old record with me.

A (27:24)

This, like this, the act of putting this album on, any of these albums on and then walking away from the device and then not go. Not just knowing that skipping a song is not an option. Just knowing that now I'm living with this piece, with, with this, with this side of this album or record or whatever it's called. And now I'm going to do my thing and I don't have to like every second of it. I think one of the problems in modern life and the trap that I have fallen to the very bottom of the well on this because of my particular wiring is total and complete curation of every moment of my life, or at least the, the attempt at that. And it's very unsatisfying. I mean, I think true happiness, or at least true content, contentedness, contentment comes from knowing which one of those words is the word to you. No, being truly content probably comes with being okay with everything, not being perfect all the time, but because we live in a world where you can fool yourself into thinking that that's possible. People like me pursue it and find ourselves unhappy a lot of the time. And there was something about just knowing that like, you know, there's on, on Random Access Memories. I really love some of the songs. Some of the other ones I could take or leave, but just being like I'm, I'm here with this. This is. This is my reality. And making this pizza and listening to the music, it was a deeply satisfying experience for me. And then I want to talk about a little bit later about White Lotus, because the first two episodes are out and I went ahead and watched it, but afterwards. So I'm kind of like you that I really don't like to go to bed with, like, dirty dishes in the sink. It's very. It makes me feel unsettled. I like to get everything ready for the next morning. But I was kind of tired. I had watched like two episodes of White Lotus. It was kind of getting late and I was tempted at about 11 o'clock last night. I only thought there was one episode of White Lotus out. So I started it at like 9:15. And I was like, this will. I'll be shutting it down by 10:15. And then I was so hooked in. Then I realized there was a second episode, but. So I was really toying with the idea of just like going to bed and just dealing with this, the kitchen in the morning. And instead I sort of activated myself by saying, let's just put on one more record. And for some reason, I have like a John Coltrane record.

B (29:40)

Oh, which one?

A (29:42)

It's. I can't tell you off the top of my head, but it's like John Coltrane in his quartet.

B (29:46)

Okay.

A (29:46)

And it's something or other. I didn't actually recognize any of the songs as, you know, I don't know what John Coltrane's like.

B (29:53)

The only thing I would really know would be A Love supreme. And I have that on.

A (29:56)

It wasn't A Love supreme because I think I would have recognized that. And. But I put this on. And by the way, it's definitely. What would you call that? Bebop? What would you call John Cole? It was fast. It was fast. It was kind of, you know, a lot of like, syncopation. A lot of, like a lot of, you know, kind of. I have no. I'm not good at describing jazz music as you are realizing as a listener to these words.

B (30:20)

Genevieve in here to do her imitation of jazz. It's really flattering.

A (30:24)

Is it good? Starts with boring jazz music.

B (30:29)

I'm here to tell you, it's not very polite towards jazz.

A (30:32)

I mean, I have been getting into by way. By way of the Sonos and that Herb Ellis that you turned me on to. And a lot of stuff that's real kind of like ear friendly. Like, I have been listening to a lot of. A lot of jazz, but a lot of jazz that's very, again, it's, it's, it's, it's easily digested for people, for folks like me. And that is not what this John Coltrane was. It was super, it was super rapid. It was kind of all over the place. But again, the like fact that I wasn't going to like take my hands, my soapy hands out of the sink and walk over and change the record. I'm just sitting there at 11 o'clock at night in my kitchen and just like listening to, exposing myself to some music that I probably wouldn't have listened to otherwise. If it was on the Sonos, I would have exited or on something else. And just cleaning up my kitchen and making the coffee and getting it all ready. And it's like the one light is on under the microwave over the stove. It was just like. This is a special moment in my life. It is a completely banal, in a way average moment that happens many times for many people all over the globe. But in my life, in this moment, this feels really good. And I really credit the record player with it. I would never have gotten on Sonos and been like, okay, John Coltrane music that is right at the edge of my abilities as a listener.

B (31:54)

So I want to tell you something. You were speaking earlier and this is more about the technology. This kind of moves away from the emotional experience you had. But I only have one chance to tell this story and it's now because you're talking about hooking your record player up to a Bluetooth. And I have actually been thinking here, like, should I tell this story? Because me trying to talk about technology and making Bluetooth work sounds like a just hideous idea for this. Just dry as hell, but gets to my hesitation about pulling the trigger too quickly or some would say quickly enough in buying new electronics. Anything that's going to be a little bit of an outlay of money. And you know, I bought a couple of new computers recently, but it took me a long time to do it. I still need a new audio board, but I still want to do the research to figure out which one to get. I'm getting closer on that, by the way. But the reason I hesitate is because I feel like when you're buying something that is technological, you don't know what the limitations are until you own it. And it's almost like getting an apartment and not kind of and everything seems perfect about it. And not realizing that there's an after hours club that opens at 2am and there is no way for you to know that that is what you're living above. Right. And then you're kind of like. And now maybe the next time you get an apartment, you're going to do a little bit more research to see where the nearest clubs are so that you don't find yourself in that situation again. But the only way you got there was by accidentally signing this lease. Well, that is what happened with the current television we have downstairs. Because we got. I don't know if. And I've been like, kind of.

A (33:31)

It's always trying to take over the brain of something else.

B (33:34)

And so I've been giving Genevieve a hard time about. About the price. Genevieve has certain, like, restrictions about spending a lot of money on things, and they tend to revolve around things you like. Well, television stuff. I do think that there's something about Genevieve growing up in an era where all TV was free. I think this applies to me, to the show. Oh, right, right.

A (33:53)

You mean even on the content side?

B (33:55)

Even on the content side. So, like, when we're talking about Fubo or, you know, we still don't.

A (33:58)

Has that come up on the show lately?

B (33:59)

Yeah, right, exactly. But then also, like, there was a whole thing between Genevieve and me and actually almost all of the North Seattle friend group about buying a big screen TV for our. For our space here in the basement. When we moved in this house, we needed a new one. I think the old one broke, but, like, we hang on to TVs for a long time. So the old one that broke was more than 10 years old. And TV technology had come a long way since that flat screen tv. And it's just easier to buy a bigger one these days. Like, it's hard to find a small tv. And also we had a big open space in.

A (34:30)

The crew that you run with involves Camaro. Kev. Exactly. He writes all of the video only scripts.

B (34:36)

Right, Exactly. He's. He's really dialed in. Although he's also somebody who does appreciate a good deal as well. So he's not like, I'm just going to throw. I'm going to recommend you throw as much money at this problem as possible. But he does.

A (34:48)

He's like a savant.

B (34:49)

We turn to him about things.

A (34:51)

Television, audio, visual.

B (34:53)

Exactly. And the one that we bought was kind of again, like, Genevieve was still angry at how big it was. And it's not that big. I guarantee you, whatever TV we have, probably the majority of people who are listening probably have one the same size or bigger. But it was also on the slightly more affordable end of things, it was. It's the brand is Hisense, which I heard of before, but that's a budget brand, right?

A (35:14)

It's a. It's my understanding is that tends to be a budget brand. Yes.

B (35:18)

And for the most part, it's fine for what we need. You know, we even got a sound bar for it, which you really need. But we had gone without a sound bar for so, so long. We're just kind of lagging behind in these things. But the TV is perfect for everything we need until I get my Bluetooth record player. And now I use a lot of Bluetooth devices in my house. I have various headphones, I have various speakers. I'm constantly, constantly connecting and disconnecting from my phone usually, but sometimes my iPad or even a computer as well. Like, I'm pretty comfortable in the you in the Bluetooth space. I will say that sometimes it's a little finicky. If you have another device on and it's trying to talk to that you kind of got to be on top of it. So I know that it's a little bit. Can be a little finicky, but I have a pretty good beat on it. But there's something about this Hisense TV that I did not learn. And you would never research this or suss this out until it happens to you. And now the next tv, I'll. I guess I'll try to look into this. But when I turn on my record player and my little Bluetooth speaker is right next to it or nearby, wherever it is, it's kind of a floater. But I turn on both of them instead of the record player first talking to the Bluetooth speaker, it tries to connect to the tv. And of course, it's like the TV has some sort of weird name that is a string of letters and numbers. And now here's the deal. The TV is off. The TV isn't even on. Why would the record player be trying to connect to a device that's off? That's the first question. The second question is, why would a record player connect to a tv? They're both output devices.

A (36:47)

It's Adam and Eve, not record player and tv.

B (36:50)

Okay, you get what I'm saying? Like, they're both output devices. Why would they want to talk to each other? They should both be trying to talk to a speaker, not to each other. That makes no sense either. But here's the real thing.

A (37:01)

That hisense TV is just out there hoeing it up.

B (37:03)

Yeah.

A (37:04)

That high sense TV is loose in the caboose.

B (37:06)

So much perfume on it's. Just like over here, sweetie, blinking these big, big eyes, these big wet eyes. But here's the deal. Here's the real thing that just drives me absolutely bananas about this. Astute listeners might be saying, hey, Andrew, why don't you just go into your TV settings and turn the Bluetooth off of the tv? To which I say, great idea. I've tried that. When you go into the settings, which is a pain and kind of a pain you have to go through, go in the settings of the television, open up, menu, menu. Bluetooth off. Are you sure you want to turn Bluetooth off? Yes, I'm sure. I turn it off. Then the record players, you know, connected to the Bluetooth, everything's fine. I'm listening to it. The next day, when I go to play a record or whatever, it's trying to talk to the TV again. And I'm like, what are you doing?

A (37:52)

Default setting. It defaults back to this annoying thing, the tv.

B (37:56)

Just when you turn the TV off, shout out to Kendrick. When you turn the TV off, it turns Bluetooth back on on the tv. And so I'm like, well, this cannot be right. So I look it up, and then I'm in these Reddit forums, it's being like, this is such a pain in the ass. Why do Hisense TVs? How can I permanently turn off Bluetooth on my Hisense TV? You can't. It's just a fluke.

A (38:20)

And, like, you know what that sounds like to me? No.

B (38:23)

No sense, no common sense. High common sense. I'm just like, low sense. Yeah, and it's just like one of those things where when we were sussing out televisions, you're looking at all the pros and cons, the size, the price, the compatibility with various things. You're not looking like, will Bluetooth stay off when I turn it off, or will it reset every time I turn the TV off? And it's just. It just drives me absolutely crazy. And I do think it's like little things like that that make it hard for me to pull the trigger on other devices if they're going to be somewhat expensive. Because I'm like, what? Lies in wait to absolutely stump me. When I bought this new computer, I was telling you about setting up this new computer a couple of weekends ago, and everything was really clicking along smoothly as I connected all of my various devices to it. And I was very excited about all of that. But then I did get a little bit of a. I hit a stumbling block, which I eventually solved. But when I hit that stumbling block. And I'm like, this computer only needs to do one thing, and that is connect to Riverside so I can do my podcast every day. And it's not working. Is there something internal about this particular model that I bought that is completely un. Overcomeable regret that that will, like, totally, like, make this purchase null and void? So anyway, that is just. Have you considered bananas?

A (39:40)

Just taking the back off of the hisense TV while it's on and just going through and clipping wires to see how you undo that without destroying its other abilities. Not unlike the brain surgeries we've been talking about lately on the show.

B (39:53)

That's right. I'm going to click the red one.

A (39:55)

Checking in with the tv.

B (39:56)

Don't click the red one. Don't click the red one. The whole thing just blows.

A (40:00)

Every time you want to listen to your record player, which I think is also fairly common for you as well. When you're darting it up, you have to go to turn the TV on, go through this whole process and undo this. Or is that the only way to get around this quite often?

B (40:14)

I mean, I think sometimes it doesn't happen. And I don't know why. It's a little bit random like that. There are times where it's much more seamless, but then there are other times. And in the process of doing it, if I leave that this is. I don't know if you can follow along here because it's such a very specific, frustrating situation. But the record player is constantly sending a request to the television. So in this occasion where I've turned on the record player and then I've turned on my Bluetooth device, and then it's kind of like, oh, for some reason it's not connecting to the Bluetooth device. I just know now I'm like, oh, I'll bet you the television is interfering. So I go over to the TV, I turn it on, and the TV's already on the screen that says, hey, trying to connect to this Bluetooth device.

A (40:57)

Some real Romeo and Juliet story between these two devices. And maybe you just have to let them run away together eventually.

B (41:04)

That's not how that ends.

A (41:05)

Star Crossed Lovers. Really? I've never gotten to the end of that movie.

B (41:08)

Pretty sure it's not pretty sure they don't go riding off into the sunset.

A (41:12)

Not what I've heard.

B (41:13)

I'll have to look that up. You know, your family might have had a family copy of that that was like, more written, like, by the Christian elders. Yeah, exactly. But all I was gonna say, beyond.

A (41:26)

What yonder window breaks? It's the holy spirit.

B (41:28)

You turn on the television, it's like, hey, I'm trying to connect to this thing. Do you want to connect to it? And I'm like, no, that's the record player. Why would I do that? So then I say no, and then I start to go into the settings on my tv, but then before I can get to the settings, it's like, hey, do you want to connect to the record player? No, I'm going into the saying, hey, do you want to connect to the. It just keeps pinging, pinging, pinging over and over. And I know that I can just walk around the corner and turn off the record player and it'll solve the problem, but I get so angry at it. I'm like, no, I can turn this off before the next request, but the request in, like, every 10 or 15 seconds, it is absolutely frustrating.

A (42:01)

That is really. Well, Andrew, I'm sorry, I don't mean to rub it in, but everything's going great here at the Madrona Hill studio regarding my record player and Bluetooth speaker. So hopefully my LG TV won't get any ideas because as far as last night goes, it was very, very. It was very satisfying. And it felt like, in a weird way, I've already kind of said this now, a couple of different versions of it, but it somehow felt like it quieted my brain in a way that I have a really hard time with because of the paralysis of. We even call it the paralysis, the sort of ennui of too many options. And that's what I'm always suffering through in my life, is so many options. And I've cultivated my life in such a way that can kind of be up here at my little house, kind of looking at the river and kind of doing whatever I want, listening to whatever, watching whatever I want, and reading whatever I want. And then. And then in the midst of it kind of going, is this all there is, like, is this satisfying to me right now? And, I mean, that speaks to some, like, sort of deeper stuff with me. But last night, there was something about the. This. The. Because I had this idea, I was like, this would be a great place for a record player. And I have all these records that I've been toting around for years and never playing, etc. And then just like last night, having them play, listening to it, having it feel like enough in that moment, it was very, very, very satisfying. I was very. It was a great Monday night around here. We was hoping for some razzle dazzle. Razzle dazzle. That's right, man. Razzle dazzle. On your mark. On your mark. Get set, get set now. Ready, Ready, go, everybody. Razzle dazzle. All right, let's thank some dazzling donors. These folks are donating a dazzling amount of dough. They are making this program possible. I was having an imaginary fight with Howard Stern the other day in my head, as I often do, for some reason, in the quiet moments, I'll think, like, I was listening to the show and he was being very dismissive of somebody who had called in. And then some. For some reason, I then insert myself into the position of being that person. But in this version of it, it was. He was questioning my broadcast bona fides. And I was saying to him in this completely and totally, I want to.

B (44:15)

Make sure I got this straight. So you're listening to him being somewhat dismissive to a caller or somebody on the show, and then in this situation, you're not just sort of talking to the radio thinking, like, oh, that's a little rude. That's not how I would handle it. In your imagination, you're approaching Howard Stern, maybe as a producer or a confidant of some sort and saying, hey, Howard, that's not how I'd go about this.

A (44:33)

No, it's more complicated than that.

B (44:36)

In your head, like, I was making it too complicated.

A (44:38)

It's exactly what Sarah Woodruff, our first dazzling donor, loves about the show. By the way, Sarah says it's Sarah with an H. That's the biblical post covenant spelling, which is true. And the bad joke I've made before when completing this form, you with that what you will. Sarah's in Silver Spring, Maryland. You could be our Silver Spring Sarah. Did you know that that's the origin of that Fleetwood Mac song? Literally, they were driving somewhere, and Stevie Nicks saw, like, a freeway sign for Silver Spring, Maryland.

B (45:07)

I don't think I know that song.

A (45:09)

Oh, man, that song's been having a moment. It. It slaps. In fact, I should probably.

B (45:14)

Oh, well, it's off of. It looks like it's off of rumors, and so I must know. Rumors. I mean, that's one. That's their most famous record, right? I just referenced it the other day.

A (45:22)

The story on it is that Stevie Nicks wrote it about her breakup up with Lindsay Buckingham. And it was really long. The song was very long. And so they wanted to cut it way down. And there was. This is like that band was a constant state of turmoil. And there was something. Something that went on with the song where they Basically, like, outvoted her or they put it on the B side or they cut it down or something.

B (45:46)

That's why it's not on Rumors. It's a B side. I see. Yes.

A (45:50)

But then famously, she got them to agree to perform it live. I forget what the event was. I don't think it was just strictly a Fleetwood Mac concert. It might have been part of some other bigger thing.

B (46:01)

It was part of the dance. Okay.

A (46:04)

Is that a concert film?

B (46:05)

It looks like a concert film and album they did. Yeah.

A (46:08)

And there is. When that song gets performed, and the way that Stevie Nicks is looking at Lindsey Buckingham and she has this line that's like. It's like. It's not going to sound very impactful when I'm just saying it, but it's like, you're never. You'll never get away from the sound of a woman who loves you. And she's just, like, staring. I don't even want to say dagger. She's just like boring holes in Lindsey Buckingham with her eyes. It is like a crazy moment. Anyway, but Sarah, I want to say the Sarah with an H is also how my sister Sarah with an H spells it, because of course, we all. We all be real biblical with the names around my family as well. So.

B (46:45)

So are we done with your fight?

A (46:47)

No.

B (46:47)

Oh, okay.

A (46:48)

No, no. We're just getting started, Andrew. But I'm trying to make progress on the dazzling donors as I'm making progress on unveiling my true level of mental degradation regarding the Howard Stern show. Basically, what happens is I will listen to the Howard Stern show. He will be rude to someone, and if it was a caller, I then put myself in the position of being that caller. And, like, what would I say? But then over the course of my imaginary conversation, it morphed from me being that person to me, just me as a person who is being judged by Howard Stern and being judged because he really hates podcasting. He doesn't understand that he is podcast. That what he does is a podcast, a very successful, very good podcast. And so he shits all over podcasts and podcasters, and he hates that everybody has a show at their house, etc. Even though he does the show from his house. It's like, dude. But anyway, I. I then went into a mode of saying, well, here's all I can tell you, Howard, is that. That for about 17 years or so, let's call it 15 years, I've been doing this show five days a week, and it's now a full time job for three People. And we have a very small but very loyal group of listeners that have been supporting it for all these years. And that, to me is. That's pretty good. I'm pretty proud of that. This is the conversation I'm having with Howard Stern of my mind. And it's because of people like Sarah Woodruff. Andrew, that's where I'm going with this with. Because of these kinds of dazzling donors. Like, I'm not proud of a lot of things in my life, but I'm proud that TBTL exists and I'll tell Howard Stern about it. I don't even care what he says.

B (48:18)

Well, let me ask you this before we get into Sarah's message here. Yes, this is a serious question that is either the worst question to ask during the dazzling donor segment or maybe the best. So we'll see.

A (48:31)

I like. It's a high stakes question.

B (48:33)

Has there ever been a moment or do you ever sometimes fantasize about having a show that has a much different vibe, where we are more, I don't know, aggressive or catty or caustic towards interactions with listeners? And I don't know if you're feeling that now or has there ever been a time? Because I will be honest with you, there have been times in my life where I'm listening to. I don't know if it's an east coast sports show which has a certain kind of reputation for like, sort of aggressiveness or. But I've been, you know, there are those types of talk shows that are beloved, but also they're beloved because the host can just be like, come on, get to the point.

A (49:13)

Or whatever dynamic is kind of negging some of the callers.

B (49:16)

Yes. And it can be like super cheesy, like Jim Rome. Then it feels like an act, and that's dumb. But then there are other people where it just sort of seems like, come on, get to the point. Come on. You know what I mean? And sometimes that's refreshing as well. Have you ever had a thought like, oh, man, it would be kind of fun if we could just spar back or something?

A (49:31)

Especially when the listeners are critical of us.

B (49:33)

Yes, right, Exactly.

A (49:35)

I hate it. I honestly never. I do not like that dynamic when I hear it on the radio or on the Howard Stern Show. Like, a woman had called in and said, hey, would you ever want to interview Jennifer Kulage? And. And then she said, I'm wondering if she said. So she asked this of Howard Stern. And then she says, is Gary. You know, Gary Della is the producer. And she said something like, is Gary on the line? Gary, is that something you've been looking into? And then Howard goes on this tirade, like, why are you asking? Why are you asking Gary? I make the decisions around here. He just does what I tell him. Which, by the way, not true. 100% not true. And like, so I don't like. I don't like hosts being rude to listeners, but there definitely are times I get emails from listeners and I think, I wish I could be a little brusque here.

B (50:20)

Well, that's what started with the whole hey, Dummies thing, right? Like, that's way, way back. But I think I was in LA because I can kind of picture the studio as in when this happened. But you got an email that was very critical and maybe not well presented.

A (50:33)

I remember you said, started with hey, Dummies.

B (50:35)

Your response, you're like, do you to know how I responded? I'm like, yeah.

A (50:38)

And you're like, oh, no.

B (50:40)

Hey, dummy. Was how you responded.

A (50:42)

I did that?

B (50:42)

Yes. You wrote that. No, you wrote back to the listener. Hey, dummy. And I.

A (50:47)

Pretty durable concept.

B (50:48)

I thought it was so shocking that you were just going to lay into this listener in this way, but I guess it sort of stuck.

A (50:56)

I can't do that anymore. Now that we are a. Yeah, that's not good. Now that we're a business, we don't have the sort of corporate cover or whatever you call it of American Public Media or Bonneville International now. I actually had this thought the other day. There was something I put out on the show. I don't even want to get specific, but, like, it's weird. Not weird, but it's. It's. It's odd to me that after all these years and we are getting. Sarah, we're getting to your message. Don't worry.

B (51:20)

Come on, Sarah. Just be patient. Sorry. Trying to bring some of that. East Coast Barb.

A (51:27)

I. I feel we're gonna thank East Coast Barb tomorrow. She's our dazzling daughter.

B (51:32)

We have a San Jose Barbie, and.

A (51:34)

We got East Coast Barb. San Jose Barbie. It's strange that this still gets to me sometimes, but every once in a while, we'll just be talking about something on the show that seems very. Not, like, fraught or loaded. And then I'll just, like, open my TV show email the next day, and there'll just be, like, a lot of people weighing in on it, and it'll be a lot of people sometimes disagreeing with me. Or it feels. It can feel a little patronizing at times. Kind of like really what it is is people love the show. They feel connected to us if they think they have a useful piece of advice or feedback they want to offer. And that's an okay thing. But sometimes when there's like a lot of it and some of it feels like it's sort of like basically the equivalent of like, have you unplugged and plugged in the modem. I'll be like, I'll get kind of a feeling. But then what? I will immediately, right after, I'll have a kind of a feeling about it. I will think to myself, okay, that's the downside of this, of this arrangement. The upside is we have a group of folks listening and supporting the show, the Sarah Woodruffs of the world World, that are so ride or die for us that like, we can do this for our job. That's an incredible thing. And the downside is sometimes people have a little bit more feedback and advice than I may be looking for on a particular topic. And. And like, if that's the downside, I can absolutely live with it. So that's the journey that I go on about. Being a little, sometimes a little tetchy with the listeners is like if the biggest problem we have is too much engagement, I can live with that because that's the other side of the coin of this getting to be our job is where I kind of end up with it. Anyway, Sarah says greetings to Andrew, Luke and my fellow tens. I'm grateful to have had another year where I was in a position to dazzle with my donation because of what this podcast and its listeners mean to me. I'm writing this three days before inauguration day and I don't know where we will be when this is read, given that 2025 has already started off with one coast freezing while the other burns. I don't know. Sarah, I saw in the news today say that there are parts of the country that in the next week may experience a 100 degree temperature swing. Did you see that one, Andrew?

B (53:34)

No, I did not.

A (53:36)

I can't even process that. I'm not claiming that's climate related. I mean, you know, that's the difference between weather and the climate change, but it just doesn't seem non apocalyptic. Take it back to the post covenant spelling of Sarah. It doesn't seem like we don't have some horsemen riding in from the east. Which scroll are they opening right now? This is dark. A hundred degree temperature swing.

B (54:00)

I remember Genevieve taking me to a disaster movie. Maybe somewhere in the first years of us dating and it was one of those disaster movies. I can't remember anything about it except that, like, it had a very iconic shot of maybe a giant wave crashing into New York City, but also everything freezing across the country at the same time. It was like, this is. Sounds like what we're setting up for.

A (54:22)

It definitely feels apocalyptic. What I do know is that the tens can continue to take care of each other and those that they love. We can continue to be of service to others, donate our time and or money as resources allow, and generally act as compassionate citizens in the world. I also know that often this doesn't feel like enough, and at times it's legitimately not enough to keep bad changes at bay. We will persevere, and the power of podcastery will help see us through. No act is too small and mutual aid for all. Oh, that's pretty clever.

B (54:55)

Yeah.

A (54:55)

No act too small and mutual aid for all. What y'all do is indeed so important. That's Sarah in Silver Spring, Maryland. Wow, Sarah. That's a really. A really kind message and a great reminder. You know, I feel like I was hitting that messaging pretty hard, like after the election and when I still had. What do they call it, Fighting spirit.

B (55:17)

And the will to go off.

A (55:19)

I believe the who wrote the book the will to Whatevs.

B (55:24)

I don't know. I don't know if I was that Courtney.

A (55:26)

I think it might have been a Courtney Hohmeister book. Anyway. Yeah, I think it's good to re. Engage with that. When we were talking to Chris Hayes at the town hall, he said something that's really stuck with me because he's been touring around America and in lots of rooms with lots of people who were pretty devastated by the results of the election. And he said people are getting up off the mat. That. And I do. I'm. You know, I don't know how I feel about each and everything that Pramila Jayapal does, but she was talking about seeing people coming back. I do think that there is subtly. I think we're kind of. We're kind of getting back, just to use Chris's phrase, where I think we're getting up off the mat a little bit. I think there are very. There are small wins that are happening there. I mean, it's such a small thing, but like, the Supreme Court actually breaking ranks with Trump recently over very, again, very minute things. But it's like, I do feel like there is something subtly that is shifting. And again, I keep going back to the analogy of a coin flip, and I just don't think you can't flip a coin and have it go heads a thousand times in a row. And I think things will regress to some sort of balance and some sort of mean. But it's good to remember that we got each other and that we can push back on this stuff, Sarah. So thanks for the reminder and I.

B (56:40)

Don'T want to make this too serious of a conversation, but the movie the Day after tomorrow only got 45% on the tomato meter, which is something that your mom might be. And then only 50% on the popcorn meter, which I believe is the, the, the, you know, sometimes like the critical reception is very low, but the audience reception is very high. The Day After Tomorrow does not have a positive legacy. I did not, I did not realize that it was such a bad movie.

A (57:08)

To get back to Sarah's message and just to try to like wrap this up in a did.

B (57:13)

Oh, that wasn't the good wrap.

A (57:14)

I had a kind of. I wanted to, if you, if you'll allow me, Andrew, I just wanted to. I know we don't usually do this, but go out with a little music. This is the Chipmunks doing Battle Hymn of the Republic.

B (57:23)

I thought you actually had it there for a second.

A (57:26)

Maestro. Get set, get set.

B (57:30)

If you had, if you had googled that while I was going on my Rotten Tomatoes bit, that would have been something.

A (57:37)

We've also got to thank Jill Brown, who's in.

B (57:40)

Wait, there are no lyrics. I just realized how stupid I was for falling for that joke.

A (57:48)

It's just them humming.

B (57:50)

It's just them playing the instruments.

A (57:52)

Yes. Jill Brown is in Denver, Pennsylvania.

B (57:57)

Oh, this.

A (57:59)

I'm. My guess is that last year when we were thanking Jill in one way or another, we probably got onto the topic of the Denver's, the outside of Colorado. Denver's. Yeah, exactly like Denver, Iowa where we once hitchhiked through Jill's in Denver, Pennsylvania and said it would be impossible to thank you enough for the comfort and the humor you've provided through the last several crazy ass years. I've been a loyal listener for 15 years from Seattle, Chicago in Philly to where we now are in the big city of Denver, Penns. I just adore you guys and appreciate you so much. Ah, Jill, thank you. I mean, we're only a couple of weeks into the dazzling donors, but the, the trend from years past seems to have reemerged, which is an incredibly sort of humbling and complimentary experience for us coming from the people who are donating the money so we can have this.

B (58:48)

Job, which remember what Dr. Kirk Honda told us? He said, just lean into it, enjoy it, don't reject it. This is a community.

A (58:55)

That's right. Joel says, hey, my company, Focus Learning Experience Design, among other things, develops eLearning. It's funny TBTL content, but hearing your experiences with cybersecurity training kills me. I promise it's possible to create online training and even compliance training that is engaging and delightful. So if anyone out there would like a little quality learning and development support for your company or team, or if you're just E learning curious, that's definitely not a thing says Jill. Send us an email. It's helloocusgroup group IO. Let me spell focus for you. Okay. Hello at and focus is F O K U S group G R O U P dot IO hello at focusgroup IO if you put it's my lucky day in the subject line, we'll take 10% off the cost of any consultation or design service. First consultation is free. Sending love to all XOXO. That's from Jill in Denver, Pennsylvania. Thank you, Jill. Thank you, Jill. We really appreciate it. Thanks for making TBTL happen today and for showing the way with cyber training and elearning that is not completely soul crushing.

B (60:03)

And not that you did not do a good job of this, Luke, but just because the spelling is different than the usual way, I'm just going to say it again. It's hello @ Fokus Group IO.

A (60:21)

Hello.

B (60:22)

And welcome to Top Story.

A (60:24)

I'm a little nervous about saying this to you, Andrew, because I don't want to set you up for disappointment, but I as I mentioned, I started watching the White Lotus and like what I had said going into the third season, I think you and I were kind of aligned on this was our expectation was that it would be like the first season was probably the best season, second season a little bit worse, third season probably the worst of the three. But we might watch it just for the sort of eye candy of this exotic location.

B (60:50)

Yeah, because I like the first half of the first. I'm sorry, I like the first half of the second season. It definitely gave me all those feelings and the sense of place. I had maybe a little bit of nitpicks and then at the end it was just one of those things where like the last two episodes became so over the top melodramatic sort of soap opera e that it's just like it kind of. It ended in a place that made me wonder should I deal with season three or not?

A (61:13)

Well, I was kind of thinking the same thing. And. But I did log on last night, and I have to say, like. Like, I went in with really low expectations, which is part of why I think it exceeded them greatly. But, like, it's really good. I think it might be the best of the three seasons, at least I'm two episodes in. I mean, first of all, the. The actors that they've cast are. Are really good. In particular, Parker Posey. As you might imagine, Parker Posey is just, like, phenomenal in this already. Just. And. And playing a different character than I'm used to seeing her play. Like, she almost always. You know, I love her from the Guffman movies and, you know, a lot of her other indie work. This is a kind of. I mean, in one thing, for one thing, she's aged, right? So she's in a different. She's just playing a different demo of person, but she's playing it really well. She's playing this very wealthy North Carolinian kind of matriarch. She's married to this guy who's played by the actor. I think his name is Jason. Isaac, maybe. And they've got, you know, three kids and. Excuse me. You know, they're sort. Sort of. She's part of the 1%, but she's also just like, kind of, you know, on a ton of Larazopan the whole time, and just like, she's just like. She's just really, really, really nailing this performance so far, which won't be shocking to anyone, but, like, the. Definitely the. The. I was watching the very opening, and I don't want to give anything away, but I was, like, thinking about the opening of season one and probably season two, how, like, remember season one, the opening is. If I remember right, they're at the airport and there's a body being loaded onto an airplane.

B (62:47)

I thought that was season two. Is that season one? Okay.

A (62:51)

I could be misremembering.

B (62:53)

I kind of trust your brain more on this. Maybe I shouldn't.

A (62:57)

That way lies a disaster.

B (62:58)

Yeah. The two of us.

A (63:00)

There's one of them where it, like, starts in the airport and a body is being loaded onto an airplane. And it's like. So it's kind of like. Then we go back to what the lead up, which I do think that was the first one because the second one was in Italy. Right. Aren't they in Italy for the second one? So anyway. But all that is to say there is this tradition on the show of there kind of being like, you know, sort of a thing that has happened that we are now going to go back in time and figure out the lead up to it. And as the beginning of episode one of season three was going on was like, are they going to not do that thing? And then they did it, and it was very shocking. And I was like, okay, we'll see. And then it, you know, it jumps back a week, and now we're. We're building up to it. What they're doing a really good job of with this season, in my opinion, is developing the different groups of people. Oh, you've also got Walter Goggins.

B (63:53)

Oh, yeah, right. He's like a saint in this house. I mean, mostly because Genevieve adores him.

A (63:58)

I mean, he is. He is. And he's great in this because he also is playing a different character than I've ever seen him play. And again, I'm not saying I've seen everything he's done, but he's usually. His thing is being kind of outsized. He's usually kind of bigger than life. He's got those bigger than life caps on his teeth, and it's kind of like his whole vibe is like, you know, whether it's righteous gemstones or. What was the. The. The one with Timothy Oliphant where they're out. Oh, oh, Unforgiven. No, no, no. Yeah, I never watched in every way there.

B (64:32)

You nailed it, Jasmine. I know what you're talking about.

A (64:34)

Yeah, I've been listening to a lot of Natalie Cole anyway, so he's usually like kind of a larger than life character. He's a smaller than life character in this, which is very intriguing. He's. He's just like. He's. He's there with his. With, like, his, like, much younger girlfriend, but he's just.

B (64:53)

Justified.

A (64:55)

Justified.

B (64:55)

Sorry, I just need to go with Unforgiven.

A (64:58)

That even comes from Justified. Anyway, he's just great in it because again, he's doing something that I haven't seen him do in a lot of stuff, but he's doing it really well. Like, I am 100% invested in what's. There's also this very, very so far, really sweet plot line between a woman who works at this white orchid. It's in Thailand, by the way. It's set in Thailand this. This season. A woman who works at this white orchid and then another guy who works there who's like a security guard, but clearly he's sort of in love. And.

B (65:31)

Lotus. Right? Wait, Lotus.

A (65:32)

Yeah. What did I call it?

B (65:33)

Orchid.

A (65:35)

So, yeah. So anyway, there's, like, there's some interesting plot lines between some of the folks that work there. There's something going on with this woman who's like the co owner of this. Of this white lotus, who's like a kind of a Thai music performer, but something kind of very mysterious about her. Anyway, they're just doing a really good job of setting up a lot of stuff. Stuff that's got me very, very intrigued. And unlike Severance, where it doesn't seem. I'm worried that Severance is building up and building up and building up a lot of stuff that's going to be really hard to resolve. This. The ambition of this is lower. These are normal people who haven't had their brain chemistry or their brain pathways altered. There's no quasi religious, shadowy family.

B (66:24)

There's not like someone may poop in a shoe, but you know, that's which one. That was season one. Right. And I think you are right that, that. I think I'm confusing the opening scene of season one with the closing scene of season two, if that makes any sense. Now I'm wondering if they're supposed to mirror each other. Although I could just be totally scrambling the wires in my brain. But remember, isn't it season one that you know the. And I guess, spoiler alert, but this is years ago now. But it's season one. Isn't that kind of the big climactic thing? The. The hotel owner kind of. He finally goes berserk. Zerk, the guy with the mustache. And so he breaks into one of his problematic. And then doesn't he poop in their shoes? Isn't that shoe or their suitcase and something. And then there's somebody. Somebody catches them and then.

A (67:06)

I love that guy.

B (67:07)

Yeah.

A (67:08)

He was also great. He had a great cameo on one of the. We talked about this. The Last of Us. He was in that amazing. Did you watch that? Him and Nick Offerman?

B (67:19)

I did, yeah. Oh, that's right. He was the. He was Nick Offerman's husband.

A (67:22)

That was the guy that wanders up.

B (67:24)

One of the best. Oh, okay. Yeah, he's Bottle episodes. He's the guy who wants.

A (67:27)

Well, I think they. Well, I mean, commonly they end up staying together for a long time.

B (67:31)

Right, right, right. That's that episode. Like one of the best individual episodes of television of the last 20 years. Just incredible.

A (67:37)

So good. So good. Anyway, all that is to say that I just am very. I'm completely hooked into this now. Like, I really want to know what happens. They're doing a great job of setting up a lot of intrigue. But again, and I'm not trying to get down. I'm not trying to be down on Severance. I'm not trying to be down with the severance, I believe is how the song goes. But I am concerned. And actually this is a good segue, Andrew, because you had said maybe at the very towards the end of the show that you might want to talk a little bit of Severance. Do we dare open that door?

B (68:08)

Yeah, let's.

A (68:09)

Do we keep it severed?

B (68:10)

Well, no, let's do that because I don't think we have to go too far on this because it is a show that's still, you know, it's pretty fresh released and fresh. And I don't want to spoil things for folks, but you and I did do an almost spoiler free within then a little.

A (68:24)

It helps that I don't remember a lot of it.

B (68:26)

Yeah, right. Of the, of the first few episodes of season two of Severance. And like, I, you know, this is where I want to be careful because you mentioned before that like, you, you know, you were talking about the Bob Dylan movie and how I kind of poo pooed it and then somebody else poo pooed it and then you weren't interested in it anymore. And like, if people are enjoying Severance, like, I don't want to put poison inbody's brain. Yeah. Because I know that a lot of people are really, really loving it, but man, I did watch the. I'm now caught up on it. So it was. That's always an interesting, interesting feeling when the world is like four episodes ahead of you on something and you just feel like, I'll never catch up, I'll always be behind. And so you just like consume it just like hungrily and then suddenly you're like, oh, wait, I've caught up. And now I've got nowhere. Now I've just got to wait like everybody else. And that's sort of where I am right now. But I got to say, season two, it's just has moved. So what I keep on trying to ask myself is if, if, if the production style and value of season two of Severance was actually the first season, I was just being introduced into this world, would I be as critical of it? Maybe I would think or would really.

A (69:31)

Be as into it, but.

B (69:33)

Or would I be as into it? Like, season one was so arty and withholding and bare bones and. But like me. But it like really kept you on the edge of your seat by using so little and by using space and by using like, space on the screen and space in Time and just the pacing and like, the fine that. Not the final, but the. The latest episode of Severance. It's just like. It's so dramatic now. It's like scenes of, you know, like. Let me. Let me put it this way so that I'm not spoiling anything. There is the beginning of an office romance in season one between two unexpected characters. That is one of the greatest Office. I feel like, if love is too strong of a word, but like, office relationships that I've ever seen depicted. And part of that is because it is the restraint. Restraint and the surprising nature of it and everything that season one had built around. And now in season two, we got people making love. We got, like, intense stares over dinner tables. And like, all of this stuff is fine. It's all, you know that. But it just feels like a totally different. It went from minimalist to feeling very maximalist. And I'm not saying it's a bad show, but, boy, that last episode and also the episode that you had alluded to a couple of episodes ago, where they're kind of outside, you know, literally outside in the mountains, like us camping.

A (71:03)

Adventures, Severance, like us, it just feel. It's just.

B (71:05)

And it's just like, so. And there's stuff that's happening and like, I don't even have. I don't have an issue with the plot. And you and your brother weighed in on this on a private text chain. Just like you guys are both a little bit concerned about them wrapping up all of these threads that they're throwing out there. I'm willing to trust them on this. For me, it's just like this. The journey has changed so much. Like, I'm still. I gotta admit, like, I'm still sort of into it. I'm probably somewhere between you and your brother on this. Like, I am on some of the subreddits about it. I love the fan theories. I love getting into that. And I've been listening to some pod, like, recap podcasts. So, like, obviously the show has its grips on me. I'm not rejecting the show because I don't do that for most shows. So I'm definitely into it. But it's like the type of thing where I just loved it so much that where it's going now, it just doesn't seem like the same show anymore.

A (71:53)

The issue for me is that I am confused. I do not know what is going on. And, you know, some of that is probably my attention span has atrophied in some way. And I'm also I'm also just bad at following anything that's not extremely linear and extremely literal. That's a problem that I've always had. Like, if anything is kind of symbolism or metaphor or, I don't know, like, again, I'm trying to talk about this in a way that doesn't give it away, but there's some stuff going on with Mark's character where. Where, let's just say he's astride to versions of reality right now. And I don't understand what's going on most of the time. Like, my problem is an increasing percentage of each episode of Severance involves me not knowing what's happening, me watching it, me trying to maybe. And again, some of that's just my. Like, there's something going like you were talking about. Let's just say there's a dinner scene that happened and I think the most recent episode and where there's like, you know, people are. People are having some dinner and some wine and they're talking and there's a moment where somebody. There's a. There's a misunderstanding, a misremembering about a particular date. Let's just say, like something having to do with like, what, when he started his job, when he started his job. And I know that there's something there, there. They're obviously indicating that there's something about this, what, two year discrepancy or something, that it means something. But, but like, if that was the one thing like that, if that was the one mysterious thread that was sort of like, you know, little whatever you want to call it, lure, enticement that was thrown out in the episode, I'd be like, ooh, I really want to follow that thread. I feel like every episode has like 15 threads that are thrown out that I don't understand what's going on with them. It's too many threads for me right now. And again, some of that is just my lack of brain power. But like, I would like, I would like it to be like, I'll tell you, like with, with White Lotus, there's like three threads going. And I want to know what those three threads are, but I can keep them straight. It's not like every second, not every second, but like every 10 minutes some whole new thing happens that I have to try to file away and go like, okay, remember to think about that later because we don't know what that means. It's too much stuff for me that is unexplained right now. I'd like a little bit clearer picture of Things.

B (74:09)

Personally, one thing I've been thinking about, and this is like kind of the last point that I want to make on severance, and I wanted to raise it with you is as I'm thinking about severance and how just I. What I fell in love with was the tone and pacing and just like sort of aesthetics of the. Of the whole show as well as the storytelling. And again, the withholding. Like, I'm not, I'm not. I like kind of developing theories. Like I have a theory about that that supposedly misstated start date at work. Like, I have theories about that and I like, I like having theories about that. And I like, I could. I haven't done this yet, but I could go online and, and see what people are saying about that. I kind of like that. But for me, it's the style and the sort of the. Believe it or not, I will once again raise the example of the T mobile girl from the early 2000s. It's just like, I just feel like there's something about minimalism. You know what else I was thinking about was the. I don't think you've ever dipped your toes into this world. But like the Dark Tower series by Stephen King. Like, Stephen King is like, you know, people are pretty familiar with his style of writing and his style of work, for better and for worse. But then there was one book that really, at a young age, I was like, wow, this is so different. Maybe, maybe I didn't read Stephen King when I was a little kid. I wasn't allowed to. My parents were pretty strict about that. But when I started reading Stephen King, then you read the very first book of the Dark Tower series. It is so different. It is so stark. It is written in these short sentences. There's so much mysterious mystery packed around the. Again, kind of withholding nature of it. And there's something about the artistic process where people cannot just hang on to minimalism. Like the plot somehow just always. Even the plot of a T mobile commercial that started with a woman standing in a pink dress on a white background for years and eventually ends with her blazing through the streets of. What was it, Tokyo or something on Crotch Rocket. It's like mission creep. It's just mission creep. And it just sort of seems like it's very, very impossible to. Are very, very difficult for creative types to maintain the certain vibe that they've set up once they started getting into the business of actually having to advance the plot further or something. I don't know what it is, but it's all got me Thinking about the show that I'd never recommended to you because I'm a little. I always get nervous. I think you and I both are nervous recommending things to each other because we want to set expectations. And I think that you and I are both people who enjoy things more when we sort of stumble upon them ourselves.

A (76:34)

Which is why White Lotus Season 3 is ruined for you now.

B (76:37)

No, no. Actually, I was telling you before the show that literally yesterday I sat down the couch and I had the remote control in my hand and I almost turned it on, and I was like, I don't know if I feel like sitting down to get into this universe right now. I could have gone either way. And instead I think I literally read a Mariner's blog post and then I was just off with my evening. I went to your time. Yeah. Shout out to.

A (76:59)

No, I'm not being sarcastic.

B (77:01)

Yes, he was breaking.

A (77:02)

You have another Luke in your life?

B (77:03)

He was breaking down. Do you read Luke Arkin stuff? I think you would like it. He's very, very numbers based. He's a fan, but he's very, very numbers based. He was breaking down the spring training numbers and comparing spring training numbers last year to real numbers last year during the regular season. And why you can't put much stock in spring training, which we all know, but it's just interesting to see it broken down. Strictly as numbers boy, I'm way off track here. But all of that is to say I am going. You recommending White Lotus to me actually does mean I probably will watch it, if not tonight, maybe tomorrow to see if I can catch up on that. But it's almost like the Bob Dylan thing, like you were mentioning earlier, like, Bob Dylan obviously is not some sort of a sleeper in pop culture, but you didn't start listening to Bob Dylan because I kept telling you, you got to listen to, you know, Blood on the Tracks or whatever. Like, he was your own journey. That got you there. And so therefore, like.

A (77:52)

Well, it was the Chipmunks version of Tambourine Man.

B (77:55)

Exactly.

A (77:56)

I was like this, but slower.

B (77:58)

So I'm talking a mile a minute because I'm on a million tangents. All of that is to say, as I'm watching Severance sort of become a show that lacks the nuance that I used to really appreciate stylistically. It's got me thinking about a show called Three Body Problem that I. Oh.

A (78:14)

I wanted to watch that, actually.

B (78:16)

I think you maybe should. I'd love your thoughts on it. And I'm not going to say it to you like. It's flawless. Because you shouldn't say that about anything. It just sets you up for disappointment. But it is. It's sci fi. It's more. It's more sci fi, which. I don't know how you feel about sci fi, but it does have some brain chemistry in there. But it's, again, a show that really fits, sort of. It's got its own style, and it really sticks with it. And I just. It's beautiful to watch and very compelling. I'd be interested in your thoughts.

A (78:40)

Yeah, it's like aliens are on their way to Earth and we're getting ready for the arrival, I believe. Right.

B (78:46)

That is. That. Yeah, that's a very. In fact, that's a good way of putting it. Sorry. Is my sound quality. I'm hearing something weird in my headphones with the sound. Okay.

A (78:54)

I'm not hearing it.

B (78:55)

Okay, good Here at the studio.

A (78:57)

But.

B (78:57)

But gotta get that new board. Might. Might be putting in. How are those dazzling donations coming in? Because I may need to get a new board. But anyway. Yeah, at some point. Sounds like you've got severance right now in White Lotus. This is.

A (79:09)

The thing is, I'm. I'm up on both of them, and we haven't gotten into any important baseball developments. This might be the perfect window. Maybe me checking out Three Body Problems. Because the two shows that I. Again, the two shows that I'm sort of really intrigued by, I'm totally current on. They're like, they have not released any additional episodes. So this might be.

B (79:27)

Yeah, me.

A (79:27)

Maybe I'll reheat some pizza and watch Three Body Problems.

B (79:30)

And it's got Samuel Tarley in it because I think there's a connection between the creatives of this and. Oh, yeah, yeah, I think. Yeah.

A (79:39)

I stole a considerable number of books from the Citadel library. Here I go once again with the email.

B (79:47)

Every week. I hope that it's from a female.

A (79:50)

Oh, man. It's not from a female. All right, Ali. I heard actually, through the grapevine, I. E. A text chain with you and me and P. Fletch, that there's somebody else from KUOW days who was weighing in on the topic of the. The NBC soap opera passions from the 90s and 2000s.

B (80:15)

Yes. Which I had never heard of until yesterday's show, which was such a wild ride for me. You had told me that kind of on mute in the newsroom during some time of day while you worked at KoW. There's a show on called Passions, which was like a soap opera, but a weird Soap opera that involved a witch and a doll that caused a light. And the first clip we landed on randomly was so bizarre and surreal. I mean, it was very low budget, like a soap opera, but felt more like something that was like, I don't know, Lynchian almost.

A (80:48)

Yes, Actually that is a very, very good way to put it.

B (80:51)

But then also during yesterday's show, I thought I found the first episode or the pilot of it and it seemed like a very different thing. It was like these young men driving around in a jeep and I couldn't tell if it was the same show or not. It turns out it is the same show. And the reason I know that is because I got a text message yesterday afternoon from our friend Amina who says, oh my Andrew. That's how this text message begins. Oh, my Andrew. I'm catching up on TBTL and I can't believe you guys are talking about Passions. When I was a kid, I became obsessed with this show. I was a preteen and in my Harry Potter phase at the time. And it had hot guys and witches in it. It was my favorite thing on tv.

A (81:35)

This makes a lot more sense if I can just quickly. Yeah, please. Because what I was thinking about yesterday was, was I the only person in the KUOW newsroom obsessing on this weird soap opera? And then of course, our friend Amina is a producer and worked at KUOW back in the day, but is much younger than us.

B (81:53)

Yeah, way younger.

A (81:54)

I was like, I can't. I would be so surprised if there was like a 12 year old Amina working at KUOW watching Passions. But no, that's. That's a coincidence. The KUOW connection. Amina was experiencing this on her own as a, as a young person.

B (82:08)

Exactly. Although I don't know if you mentioned this already, but we did get confirmation from Phyllis, who you did over. You did overlap with Phyllis or at least you guys were close. Close.

A (82:17)

We were there at the same time.

B (82:18)

Yeah. And so Phyllis did remember that being on the tv.

A (82:20)

I did not hallucinate this.

B (82:22)

No, but I'm gonna. At this point, while you guys are in the workforce, I'm gonna. Phyllis is already on her second career track by this point and Amina is at home and she is. She's a preteen as she describes it, and she's watching Passions. But the thing is, it's not on the up and up. Luke, listen to this.

A (82:38)

Okay?

B (82:38)

Of course I was not allowed to watch this show. So what I would do is at 2pm every day, I would sneak into My parents bedroom to watch it. I would sit right up near the TV so I could have the volume nearly to zero. And if my mom ever came in, I'd quickly turn it to the Hue is a huge. How do you say the Huglies? How do you say that? The Hughes.

A (83:00)

I think the Hughley is like probably like a D.L. hughley.

B (83:02)

Yes. I never. I never say that. Right. The Huglies. So my mom would come in, I'd quickly turn it to the Huglies, which was also airing on another channel at the same time. And then it became a thing where I was like, I need to watch the Hughleys every day and I need to watch it alone. How my mom didn't realize I was sneaking the soap opera, I don't know. But wow. Hearing the clips and the theme song on today's show took me back. And so then I sent her a clip. I'm like, is this the first episode? That one that seemed a little more beachy to me and a little bit like, less surreal. And she's like, yeah, but I think the show changed a bit by the time I started watching it. It probably got weirder and weirder.

A (83:39)

Yes.

B (83:39)

I wonder if that's what the. The appeal was, was the, the weirdness.

A (83:43)

Yeah. What I remember about again, the. The way this started, because you were talking about when you were at Cairo doing your show, your. Your nighttime talk show, that there were some things that were muted on the TV that would just come on repeatedly. And you develop this odd relationship with television. And this is specific to working at like a radio station, because there aren't that many places maybe. Yeah, even a Laundromat, they're going to have the sound on. There's not that many work environments where you are watching multiple televisions without the sound on as part of the thing. It's like a weird radio station tradition. And anyway, I mentioned this thing, Passions, but my. Because that was with no sound, what I was watching at Kuwait. And what I remember seeing over time was it went from being like a soap opera that had a little subplot of this witch Tabitha and her doll that comes to life to that was the whole show. It was. It's sort of like Maury Povich before and after he started doing paternity tests at some point. The Maury Povich show was a bunch of things. And occasionally paternity tests. And then it just became all paternity tests. You are not the father. And then someone runs down the hall celebrating or whatever. That was kind of what happened with Passions in My memory of observing it from far away. Now back to Amina's story. Amina. That so resonates with me because I also grew up in a home where the TV watching was very, very tightly controlled. And we had every scam in the book, including sitting very close to the television so that the volume would be down low. Including for me, actually this also extended to my audio listening because I was not allowed to listen to non Christian music music. But what I realized was I had one of those old school, you know, tuners that actually I would love to have again. It was one of those ones that was like, you know, it lit up kind of green. Like the. Where the tuner was, was a little bit green. It probably had knobs, not unlike you were talking about on your record player that are just very reminiscent of the 70s and 80s. And what I realized was like, I think it was maybe like cube 93, one of these stations that I like to listen to music on. If you switched it from FM to am, you were almost over on Cairo am, like where the FM you barely.

B (85:51)

Had to re read dial.

A (85:52)

So yeah, my dad, if I heard him coming down the stairs, I would just switch it to AM and it would sound like I was listening to Cairo on a scratchy. It was like I was listening to, you know, 7:12am or something. But it was enough, you know what I mean? It was. It threw him off the. It threw him off the scent that I'd been listening to Chet Buchanan or whomever.

B (86:09)

And so what's on Cairo that this point is this. Is this sports or is this.

A (86:14)

If it probably sports is probably sports line. The thing is, I also enjoyed Cairo at the time.

B (86:20)

I just don't remember what it was programmed as. So it was like a news. It was.

A (86:23)

Oh yeah, it was all news.

B (86:24)

Okay.

A (86:24)

But I'm thinking if it was nighttime because I used to listen to like I used to listen to the. The top 10 at 10. But I also think there was an earlier, you know, the nighttime shows on like the nighttime music stations. And at those. In those days it was probably K hit, maybe cube 93, trying to think of some of the other ones. And a lot of them would do these countdowns, you know, it'd be the top. The top whatever at whatever. And I remember really loving that and being very invested as a listener. Like if I liked the number one song, I was really, really wanted it to continue being number one. One of my really strong memories of that was loving the song Rock Me Amadeus by Falco. Oh yeah, like just that song just blowing my mind. It just didn't sound like anything I'd ever heard in my eight years on the planet.

B (87:13)

And you remember getting like, in my head, I still, in this day and age, can't, like, sort of separate out. Because the movie Amadeus was sort of out kind of around that same time. And that was like sort of a movie that didn't really seem to fit into any categories that I was familiar with as well. And it's like, did we go through an Amadeus phase?

A (87:31)

We must have had. We must have had a real Amadeus moment in the 80s, because I just remember that song kind of like the Bat Dance. Rock Me Amadeus and the Bat Dance were both songs that just sounded different than anything I'd ever heard. The way they just combined so much kind of different styles of music within the same song. But I remember when Rock Me Amadeus finally fell from the number one spot on the, like, whatever, the 8pm Countdown on whatever, whatever the stations I was listening to was. And I remember it was real. It was replaced. I think it was replaced by a song called let's Go all the Way by a band called LA Fox.

B (88:11)

Yeah.

A (88:12)

And I really hated the song let's Go all the Way. Let's call the Way song.

B (88:19)

That's one of those songs.

A (88:20)

Sly Fox.

B (88:21)

Okay. Yeah. I'm trying to think. I, I, I. That's one of those songs that when I start singing in my head, it slips into another song called Disneyland by Dad for some reason. But I think I know this song.

A (88:35)

But it was so. I did not like the energy of let's Go all the Way by Sly Fox. It was much more like minor keys. And it was like. It was. It sounded kind of ominous to me. Whereas Rock Me Amadeus sounded celebratory. And I just remember, like, having a real moment of being like, well, life is never. Life's never going to be the same for me. Now that Rock Me Amadeus has been dethroned, that's the number one song. So all that is to say, when I was listening to that stuff, that would have been about the time my dad would be coming downstairs to check on me. And that's when I'd flip it over to Cairo. And probably at that hour it would be Wayne Cody doing Sportsline. But Cairo's general format my entire life and to this day has been basically news talk. Except it didn't used to have much talk. It was all news, all the time. And then Dave Ross was kind of expanding it. Then he had the Dave Ross show, which was news kind of you know, news and information more so than strident talk radio.

B (89:32)

So. But I guess the reason I had asked that was because you're listening to one form of talk. I mean, it's not like you were listening to, like, the Satan's Music Hour on some sort of, like, rock and roll station late at night.

A (89:45)

I wasn't listening to KISW or something.

B (89:47)

You were listening to talk radio on the FM dial, but when the parents came nearby, you had to switch to talk radio on the AM dial. Right?

A (89:55)

Well, you mean. No, I was listening to music on the FM dial.

B (89:58)

Oh, that's. That's right. Because you were just saying that you were watching the countdowns or whatever. But didn't you also say that. Wasn't there some other. Oh, okay. I think I just. I misunderstood what you were saying. At first I thought that there was a talk radio show you weren't allowed to listen to as well.

A (90:11)

No, I was.

B (90:12)

That was.

A (90:13)

Which, by the way, think about that for a minute. I mean, granted, the talk radio shows of that day were very like. They were. They were sort of non. How do I put it? There wasn't anything real racy going on anyway. But I would think in this day and age, a kid could get more bad ideas from talk radio than they could from, like, listening to Ariana Grande or something. Like, I could listen to any talk radio I wanted to on any topic, but what I couldn't listen to was Madonna doing a True Blue.

B (90:42)

Well, do you remember, though, on this show we were talking about how Sally Jesse Raphael was also part of that radio network? I'm sorry, what is the radio? What's the overarching radio? Talk Talk Net. And remember, we uncovered. It was like, oh, it was Sal Jessie on Talk Net. And it sounded like she had her own little show on there for a while. We hit play on it immediately with something about like, I don't know, some pretty adult content we played on the show. And I mean, I know I'm a pearl clutcher, but I was like, whoa. So I could even see during that era. Yeah, you know, but your folks, maybe they're just like, oh, it's talk radio. It's fine if they're not.

A (91:15)

And also that was on. That was on in the middle of the night. So I was. I mean, we used to listen to Christian talk radio radio, which. Which is a whole other. I don't even think that. Does that exist as a. I mean, the problem. It's just fused with conservative talk radio now at this point, unfortunately, like, there used to be There was no conservative talk radio. This is pre Rush Limbaugh. There was, I mean, there was a, there was financial advice shows, maybe late at night. It was a very weird world because you did have a lot of informational shows that were spoken word, that were Christian focused. You'd focus on the family. Family. You had this crazy one called Talk Back with Bob Larson that I freaking loved because he used to cast demons out over the phone. He would, he was, his whole thing was Satanism. It's funny how everything, you know, everything old is new because this, maybe not so much Satanism, but this idea of like these shadowy cabals of like, of, of groomers and people. Like, I got kind of annoyed with the. Not annoyed with, but I. There's a really pretty fascinating episode of the Daily Today on the New York Times. And it was about, it was profiling a woman who had developed a really intense relationship with a chatbot to the point where it had. It really replaced her relationship with her human husband. And the part that I was completely fascinated by was that this chatbot named Leo, that there's actually a limit on how much memory they have. So this woman would develop this intense and you know, sexual at times relationship with this chatbot. But after like a certain amount of time, it would just kind of have to self erase and she'd have to start over with it, trying to basically retrain it to know everything about her and to actually be kind of sexual and romantic because they're actually not designed to do that. Like it's. You have to kind of of like mess with the training of it to get it to do some stuff that's sort of over the line. And she had done this 20 times. In other words, she had started over 20 times with this chatbot Leo. But what I didn't like was that the reporter who actually, I really, I like this reporter whose name is escaping me at the very moment. But anyway, she kept using the term that this woman was grooming the chatbot. And it sent me down this whole weird rabbit hole of like in my mind of like. I really don't like that term. I'm not saying it's not happening. I'm not saying it isn't something we should be concerned about. If it's, if you can demonstrate that an adult is, you know, putting a younger person in danger in some way or setting them up to be in danger. But that word is so loaded for me because it's part to me of this world view that you have these large shadowy conspiracies of groomers that are trying to take large populations of young people and do this, that, and the other. And that that often leads back to whether it's Hillary Clinton at, you know, the pizza place in D.C. or George Soros or whatever. When it turns out the majority of the time these awful events are happening within the home environment or within, like in very kind of not global scale stuff. And I feel like the, the, the term grooming, to me is connected with a worldview that has it as something that's global, when in fact, unfortunately, it tends to be pretty local. And I was surprised that the New York Times reporter described the woman as grooming her chatbot instead of just saying training the chatbot, because it seemed like a more accurate description.

B (94:42)

Do you want to know something very disturbing?

A (94:46)

Sure.

B (94:46)

I have a friend, her sister grooms dogs.

A (94:51)

No.

B (94:51)

Yes way. They're grooming dogs.

A (94:55)

Dandruff.

B (94:55)

I'll be honest with. I didn't even ask. No, I think your point is really well taken. At least I take your point very well. Because, like, I think that in some context you could maybe make the argument that that's the right word there. I would still say training. Honestly, I think training as the. When you're talking about computers and AI, I feel like training is just a better word.

A (95:17)

Yeah.

B (95:17)

And the thing is, even if there was a time when, well, grooming does feel right there, it has been contextual in the modern discourse to point to something specific.

A (95:26)

Yeah.

B (95:27)

And so. And you would think of an institution like the New York Times recognizing why language is important like that. So while you could even. And I don't even think I would make this intellectual argument, while you can make an intellectual argument that maybe grooming is the right word there in the context of 2025 and how that word is currently being used and politicized, and I don't even know politicized is the right word, but yeah, actually it is in some cases. That is a really strange. I wonder if the reporter was just trying to be a little bit scandalous about it.

A (95:56)

I don't know. They used it at least twice. And I was very surprised that there wasn't somebody producing the episode who kind of like flagged in and was like, do you want to. Do we want to consider a different. Because, I mean, by the way, the overall conversation was fascinating and handled really well in the way that the New York Times, I think, handles these topics really well and with, like, respect for everybody involved and stuff. I mean, I found it. I found it really, really, really fascinating. It made Me want to go watch the movie her again? Yeah, I just kind of check back in with the. With how that lines up with kind of what a lot of us are now going through in modern life.

B (96:26)

You know, a lot of folks watch that movie when. I mean, obviously a lot of folks watch that movie when it first came out, but a lot of folks in my life really loved that movie and said I should watch it. And I know I was in LA when that came out. Is in 2014, and it's a very. I think it's an LA movie. I think it sort of takes place there and I sort of think about it as the one that got away. Like it's.

A (96:45)

It was.

B (96:45)

It's funny how I think about that movie as part of my LA experience, but I did not watch it until about a year ago. It was on either the plane to Philly, which would have just been this fall, or maybe Croatia. So less than a year ago, I finally watched her. And I'll tell you, I think it holds up. Like, I was watched it for the first time, but I was telling a friend that I'd watched it and he was like, oh, I don't know if that movie holds up. I'm like, I don't know, man. I think it's still. Even so much has sort of changed around our discourse of AI and everything. I still think it's a very, very thoughtful, very well made movie.

A (97:18)

I mean, what that movie did to me as a viewer was to. I understood why Joaquin Phoenix's character develops a strong attachment to this. You know, I guess we could say AI kind of personality or whatever. Like it. In a way that it was the. The movie's point to me wasn't like, get a load of this lunatic who thinks he's in love with this robot. It was like, oh, no, no, no. I get this. Like, this is having an effect on me as the viewer. Like, I get why because of the proximity. You know, he's wearing these like, you know, AirPods or earbuds or whatever they are back then. And also the other thing that it did to me was it created my entire style icon, which is Joaquin Phoenix's character in that movie. I now, I now seek to dress more or less like his character in that movie. Kind of like muted tones, slightly oversized, like what I'm wearing right now, which you can't really see, but like, we could do a fit check. It's like I'm basically wearing something that his character might wear in that movie, which is everything's a little Bit baggy, everything's a little bit high waisted, things are kind of solid colors. Like I've unintentionally tried to become him in that movie in more ways than one.

B (98:33)

I want to say as we wrap up the show here that I was doing a little bit of Googling on Bob Larson, who you said would do. And I did find a book called Bob Larson the Seduction of America's Youth that came out in 89. But also this is what could be relevant to our interests. I see that there is an hour long, an hour plus long video called how to Cast Out Demons Effectively with Bob Larson and it says, do you want to learn the secrets of deliverance and exorcism from a master? In this video, we'll interview Bob Larson. What if I watch that video and I studied and I learn all of the, I learn all the practices, all the tips and tricks and then we get somebody who's possessed on the show and I do the exorcism?

A (99:19)

I mean, if you would like to try your hand at it, I'd be happy to kind of supervise slash audit it. You know, I have been, I've been around some alleged exorcisms.

B (99:29)

Yeah, that's the thing. I'm obviously, I'm completely joking here. Must spark. Yeah, that must spark something in you that.

A (99:34)

Well, I was never in one. I mean, I was young, so I wasn't like ever at a thing where it was like, we're coming, we're in this room to cast a demon out of someone. But I have been in rooms like services where it was decided that there was a demonic presence that needed to be extracted. And it is like, I mean, it's. I'll just put it this way, it's as crazy as it sounds.

B (99:57)

Yeah.

A (99:57)

You know, but I, but man, that Bob Larson show, I used to, particularly when I was homeschooled because I was so bored all day long and we weren't allowed to watch, watch TV and there was like three channels anyway. I would just count the seconds until Bob Larson Talk Back with Bob Larson was coming. Because I think it was like a two hour show and it was a call in show and it was just about the most awesomely salacious topics. Again, it was about Satanism, it was about, you know, sex cults and it was about people calling in who are demonically possessed and having the demon cast out over the phone by Bob Larson and like it just really made it made like noon to 2:00 in my life really fly by.

B (100:39)

That's such A weird time to be listening to that content, too.

A (100:42)

And, like, I would be sitting again.

B (100:44)

Middle of the night stuff.

A (100:45)

This is the funniest part of, like, the rules around my life as a kid. And then we can go ahead and wrap things up, I guess, because we get it. But, like, again, I wasn't allowed to listen to Amy Grant when she did the song Baby Baby because she had become worse. But what I could do at 12:10pm in my living room on our hi fi is listen to a guy telling me that the world is full of satanic pedophiles who want to abduct me and that he was the only thing, he and Jesus, that could stand between me and that fate. That was totally fine. Baby, baby, off limits.

B (101:22)

Yeah, right, because she wiped a piece of a little drop of oil off off of somebody's face as they tried to fix a car.

A (101:28)

Right, Exactly. I'm taken with the notion to love you with the sweetest of devotion. I mean, that's honestly, Andrew, that if you embrace the lyrics of that song, you're gonna be in a lot of trouble.

B (101:37)

Real quick. Wrong path. Wrong path right there.

A (101:40)

All right, well, I think that's quite enough for a Tuesday. I want to thank everybody for listening and I want to mention that we will be right back here tomorrow with more of this imaginary radio for you. So hope you can join us for that. In the meantime, have a great Tuesday. Take care of yourselves, and please remember, no mountain too tall.

B (101:59)

And good luck to all. Power out.