#4498 Deus Ex Mulchina

Summary

Podcast Summary: TBTL Episode #4498 – Deus Ex Mulchina

Title: Deus Ex Mulchina
Hosts: Luke Burbank & Andrew Walsh
Release Date: June 27, 2025
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Episode Number: #4498

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1. Introduction and Episode Overview

In this lively episode of TBTL: Too Beautiful To Live, hosts Luke Burbank and Andrew Walsh kick off with their signature humor and camaraderie. From the outset, their playful banter sets a relaxed tone, engaging listeners with jokes and friendly teasing.

Notable Quote:
Andrew Walsh [00:37]: "Making Friends is the name of this show."

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2. ASCAP Lawsuit Against a Seattle Bar

The hosts delve into a significant topic: a lawsuit filed by ASCAP (American Society of Composers, Authors, and Publishers) against a beloved bar in Ballard, Seattle. This legal action pertains to the unauthorized use of copyrighted music during live performances.

Notable Quote:
Luke Burbank [01:40]: "Sue me for what?"

The discussion highlights the challenges bars and live venues face in navigating music licensing, emphasizing how ASCAP ensures artists are compensated for their work. They mention that Andrew is participating in a segment on KUOW’s Weekend Review, promising exclusive insights on TBTL.

Notable Quote:
Luke Burbank [03:03]: "ASCAP represents the songwriters and publishers who own the copyrights on most of the songs they play and that they will have to get a license from us before they can play them legally."

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3. Parenting Styles: Forcing Kids to Eat

Transitioning from legal matters to personal anecdotes, Luke and Andrew engage in a heartfelt conversation about parenting, specifically the age-old debate of whether to force children to finish their meals.

Notable Quote:
Luke Burbank [11:05]: "There are no middle ground punishments… it's either I am grounded for life or we're all going to laugh about this because it's absolutely moved into the absurd."

They explore generational differences in parenting approaches, reflecting on their upbringing and societal changes over the past decades. The hosts ponder whether contemporary concerns about children's eating habits are more pronounced compared to previous generations.

Notable Quote:
Andrew Walsh [14:16]: "I don't think we need to force the kids to clean their plates."

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4. Fruit Roll Ups Commercial Discussion

Shifting gears, the duo reminisces about a nostalgic Fruit Roll Ups commercial from the '80s or '90s, critiquing its depiction of children acting as adults managing a marketing campaign for the candy.

Notable Quote:
Andrew Walsh [20:11]: "They put temporary tattoos on a Fruit Roll up so that you would unroll the Fruit Roll up, press it onto your skin to transfer the tattoo from the Fruit Roll up onto your skin, and then proceed to eat the Fruit Roll Up."

They humorously dissect the absurdity of the commercial's concept, questioning the hygiene and practicality of combining tattoos with candy consumption.

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5. Voicemail Story: Dog and Tomato Juice

A memorable voicemail shared by Andrew recounts a childhood mishap involving a dog, a skunk, and a mess of tomato juice on a white sofa. The story serves as a relatable anecdote about embarrassing situations and familial reactions.

Notable Quote:
Andrew Walsh [09:04]: "I can't think of a worse mess. A dog shaking tomato juice all over a white sofa and whatever the hell else was in that living room."

Luke empathizes with the predicament, reflecting on the duality of facing potential punishment versus finding humor in the chaos.

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6. Mulch Acquisition and Neighbor's Free Mulch

The conversation takes a practical turn as Andrew discusses garden maintenance, specifically the dilemma of acquiring mulch. He narrates an encounter with a neighbor offering free mulch, weighing the pros and cons of repurposing her excess supply versus purchasing high-quality mulch from a store.

Notable Quote:
Luke Burbank [26:53]: "You get what you don't pay for."

Andrew describes the mulch in question as fresh and partially green, raising concerns about its aesthetic appeal and suitability for their garden beds.

Notable Quote:
Andrew Walsh [27:16]: "We need mulch. We have a wheelbarrow that Genevieve is always looking for reasons to defend her purchase of this wheelbarrow, which I don't think she needs to defend."

The hosts humorously debate the merits of free versus store-bought mulch, ultimately leaning towards purchasing bags to ensure garden quality.

Notable Quote:
Luke Burbank [30:36]: "I think you need to, you know, try to use the stuff across the street just because of the kismet of it all. And then if it doesn't work, just, just go, go to Lowe's and buy a bunch of bags of whatever and."

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7. ASCAP Licensing in Live Music Venues

Returning to the earlier legal discussion, Luke and Andrew further dissect ASCAP’s enforcement of licensing fees for live music venues. They explore the complexities of blanket licenses and the financial implications for small businesses.

Notable Quote:
Luke Burbank [33:03]: "You're supposed to be licensing it so that anything that goes on in that bar, restaurant over the course of the year is paid for."

They debate the fairness and practicality of ASCAP's licensing model, pondering how the collected fees are distributed among artists and the challenges venues face in compliance.

Notable Quote:
Andrew Walsh [37:13]: "They just hope that the fear of being audited will make all the rest of the people comply."

The hosts express skepticism about the efficiency and intent behind such lawsuits, suggesting they serve more as a deterrent than a means to significantly compensate artists.

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8. Discussion of Joseph Mitchell's Writing

In a delightful pivot, Luke introduces Andrew to Joseph Mitchell’s literary work, specifically focusing on a piece detailing an ASCAP investigator. They share excerpts and analyze Mitchell’s vivid storytelling and characterization.

Notable Quote:
Andrew Walsh [41:24]: "He is supposed to get in on the job... he's supposed to convince the outraged proprietor that he has to get a license from ASCAP."

Luke marvels at Mitchell’s ability to bring characters to life, enhancing the episode with literary appreciation.

Notable Quote:
Luke Burbank [45:44]: "I love this book. I gotta reread this."

Their discussion underscores the blend of humor, personal stories, and broader societal issues that TBTL expertly navigates.

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9. Closing Remarks and Upcoming Plans

As the episode winds down, Luke and Andrew share plans for upcoming events and promotions, including a mention of a new billboard and future guest appearances. They maintain their playful rapport, wrapping up with a mix of humor and sincere thanks to their listeners.

Notable Quote:
Luke Burbank [55:00]: "We are going to be right back here on Monday with more imaginary radio for all of you."

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Conclusion

Episode #4498 of TBTL: Too Beautiful To Live offers a rich tapestry of discussions, seamlessly transitioning from legal battles over music licensing to heartfelt conversations about parenting and practical gardening tips. Through their engaging dialogue, Luke and Andrew provide listeners with a blend of humor, insight, and relatable anecdotes, embodying the essence of friendship and the daily struggles and joys they navigate together.

Transcript

[Andrew Walsh]

For he's a jolly good fellow and nobody can of it. But I can. Nobody. I'll get this. Okay. But I can. I'm gonna look up those lyrics. You got it?

[Luke Burbank]

Alright.

[Andrew Walsh]

That was good. TBTL Guess what day it is. Guess what day it is. It's Friday, Friday. Gotta get down on Friday. Everybody's looking forward to the weekend. You're here to make friends. Making Friends is the name of this show.

[Luke Burbank]

But if what you want is Superman.

[Andrew Walsh]

The only way you can get him is illegally from a modern day pirate. Sometimes people say that my head is too big for my body. And then I say, compared to what? Look, man, you know your stuff, but you're like a crazy volcano. You'd have to show me you can bring it down a notch. I'll bring it down a thousand notches if I have. All right.

[Luke Burbank]

Hello, good morning and welcome everyone to a Friday edition of tbtl, the show that just might be too beautiful to live.

[Andrew Walsh]

You've been living in the monkey house.

[Luke Burbank]

My name is Luke Burbank. Oh, hey, y' all said my name. Coming to you for the final day from Las Vegas, Nevada.

[Andrew Walsh]

It's gonna be very hot, gonna be.

[Luke Burbank]

Very uncomfortable for everybody involved. Here we are, my friends, at episode 4498 in a collector series. Let the fun begin. A bar in Ballard up there in Seattle, Washington. One of my very favorite places to be from has been sued.

[Andrew Walsh]

Sue me for what?

[Luke Burbank]

By the ASCAP folks. Those are the people that represent recording artists and try to make sure that recording artists are paid for their music. And we'll tell you what's going on with that story because you won't hear this on KUOW today where my friend Andrew is going to be participating in the Weekend Review. You can only hear this on TBTL on this Friday. Also you can probably hear about this in a lot of places. Wendy's says that they are going to roll out an AI Chatbot at the drive thru to does this sound like.

[Andrew Walsh]

A musical robot to take your orders?

[Luke Burbank]

So we'll get into that and we will talk to this guy. The longest running cobra of the show may be best known for his depictions of the tall ships, but seriously, he's Andrew Walsh. She's joining me right now. Good morning, my friend.

[Andrew Walsh]

Good morning, Luke. I think I'll turn it down a thousand notches if I have to as one of my favorite tidy little jokes. It's so funny and versatile. And versatile.

[Luke Burbank]

It's so like there's so many different scenarios in which you can use that that is a. That is an excellent drop.

[Andrew Walsh]

I've heard it so many times, and I didn't. I kind of didn't remember that that was coming at the end of that little intro package. And I'm over here by myself just laughing out loud at a little joke that I've heard probably a thousand times in my life.

[Luke Burbank]

Delighting in your own work. You're like, I don't want to be grandiose, but you're like God resting on the seventh day, admiring the. The world, the universe that you built.

[Andrew Walsh]

I think that's very accurate. Absolutely.

[Luke Burbank]

You know, maybe understated, if anything.

[Andrew Walsh]

What is my Bono joke? Do you know my Bono joke? Do you want me to try to tell you my Bono joke as I try to remember it on the fly? Do you want me to build this joke as I'm flying it?

[Luke Burbank]

It's actually extremely relevant to my interest because as I mentioned on yesterday's show, I am staring at the sphere here in Vegas.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yes.

[Luke Burbank]

And they, of course, famously, you two sort of inaugurated this thing. They played a bunch of concerts, and it was a big thing. But now the main ad that's running on it is the U2 immersive experience, which I believe is watching a giant YouTube music video while you are in the sphere, which I feel like is a pretty big step down from real U2 playing.

[Andrew Walsh]

You know what I'm realizing here, Luke? Speaking of U2, U2 are recording today with echo cancellation, on which. Oh, boy. Oh, and I can't turn it off while we're recording. We might have to go to break early today so that we can turn that off. But while we futz with that, I'm gonna try to remember this joke as it was told to me probably decades ago. There's a man. Oh, and by the way, this starts off a little bit sad. He dies. There's a man and he dies. But then he goes to heaven. So that's good.

[Luke Burbank]

He's trying to respond, but in a non echoey way.

[Andrew Walsh]

Right. What it's doing is it's sort of like when we talk at the same time, you kind of get ducked underneath me a little bit. It's like it has that little bit of a watery quality. I will still say, while I'm comparing myself to God, the podcast that we produce today will still sound better than 99% of the podcasts out there from an audio level or from an audio perspective. So I need to just put that out of my head. I have a tendency to, as you well know, Luke, get very Obsessed with minor details of the recording process. But there's a man and he dies. And he goes to heaven. He's being shown around by an angel, maybe in Archangel, maybe even. And he's being shown around, and he's seeing a lot of the famous people that are up in heaven. He sees Einstein. Little experiments in a laboratory. Now, maybe he's, like, working on a math problem in a notebook or. I don't know what Einstein does. And then he goes like. He kind of passes, like, another little room there, and there's Elvis. And, like, Elvis is performing, and he looks like young Elvis. He's performing. And then they get to another little area, and there's Bono. And Bono is also. Bono's working on a song, and the man turns the angel and he says, but wait, Bono's not dead. And the angel says, oh, no, that's God. He just thinks he's Bono. I don't know.

[Luke Burbank]

Can I tell you my heaven joke?

[Andrew Walsh]

I don't even know if I get that joke anymore. Go ahead. Yeah, tell me your joke.

[Luke Burbank]

My heaven joke is actually. No, it's a hell joke. It couldn't be more the opposite.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, no. Is this. Breaks over. Yeah. Sorry, man. That's really. That's a really rude thing to do. I'm sorry, but I kind of had.

[Luke Burbank]

No, but I mean, it did. It did. It left me somewhere to go. You can agree on that.

[Andrew Walsh]

I apologize. I'm sorry. No, no, that was really, really rude.

[Luke Burbank]

No, no, no, no, no. You created a funnier moment than me telling the joke, which was you telling me the punchline to the joke.

[Andrew Walsh]

You have told that joke before and a million times. Yeah, so I did.

[Luke Burbank]

It's one of my. That's the whole point. It's not that it's new to everyone. It's that, you know, it's. It's. It's a familiar. It's like a warm bath of comedy coming for me. People just sit back, they relax. They let Calgon take them away with the comedy stylings of Luke Burbank. And coffee breaks over.

[Andrew Walsh]

It's. It's the warm. It's the warm bathwater of somebody else has just taken a bath, and now it's your turn to slip into the same water that they were just using.

[Luke Burbank]

I mean, tomato, tomato, tomato, tomato, indeed. You know what? Let's take a break and fix the echo cancellation. And you can do that attitude.

[Andrew Walsh]

Wait, you know, I do need to fix my attitude. I feel terrible about that. But, you know, a friend of mine who. This was Hannah Brooks. Olson, I think it was maybe. I can't remember if we were recording or if this is just a conversation we had before our podcast this weekend, but she was a bartender for a long time, and I mentioned somehow we got talking about Bloody Mary's. Right. I think it was on the show because somebody had a big mess they had to clean up that was related to tomato juice or whatever. And I said, as gross as that story is, it makes me want a Bloody Mary because I have a problem. And then I said, actually, what I want is a Bloody Caesar because I make Bloody Marys with Clamato juice, not just tomato juice. Right? And Hannah's like, yeah. The first time I heard about clamato juice, when I was working as a bartender, I thought it was very strange that anybody would even want, you know, like, clam. The idea of clam juice introduced into their tomato juice. But I get it. It's like just a salty kind. But she said the thing I really couldn't get over is that nobody calls it Clamato juice because despite the joke, tomato, tomato, we all accept it as tomatoes. Right?

[Luke Burbank]

We don't say tomato juice.

[Andrew Walsh]

We don't say tomato juice. We say tomato juice. And she said she was on the phone with, like, a distributor or something. Yeah. She's a young woman. She might have even been in college at this point. And she's like saying, yeah, and we need another order of Clamato juice. And the guy kind of mocked her. He's like, it's Clamato juice. It's like, well, why the hell would I know that it's not Clamato juice? When we say tomato and it's a combination of clam and tomato, you don't say clom, either. Hey, would you want to come to my clom bake?

[Luke Burbank]

Hey, I love those. Those pants, those Klom diggers you're wearing.

[Andrew Walsh]

Exactly. I do.

[Luke Burbank]

Like, you know what happens if you spill tomato juice all over the place? The only way you can actually clean it up is with a Skunkles McGookels.

[Andrew Walsh]

That's why it came up on the show. I was trying to avoid getting into details, but let me quickly tell this story. We had a wonderful voicemail that we played on the Spotless podcast last week. You can get it where you get your groceries, but we're asking people just to call in and just talk about the biggest messes they've ever had to deal with or see. And somebody told a story from when he was a kid. He said that his, you know, the family dog did have a run in with a skunk and it was a bad situation. And so the. This caller's dad is outside in the yard with the dog in a kiddie pool and I guess a lot of tomato juice and is like pouring it on the dog. And then the caller, again as a kid, goes to walk into the house, leaves the door open for a second. The dog, the skunky dog, the funky skunky dog that is now covered in tomato juice, runs out of the pool, runs into the house, gets up on the white couch, I think white leather couch, if I have that right. And just Shakespeare all over the place. Just.

[Luke Burbank]

Marmaduke, you've done it again.

[Andrew Walsh]

Exactly. And the caller was just like. And I just tried to be as quiet as possible and hope my brother would take the blame for it. Like, I honestly can't think of a worse mess. A dog shaking tomato juice all over a white sofa and whatever the hell else was in that living room.

[Luke Burbank]

What you do with a beautiful couch, that's one of those moments. There are moments like that when you're a kid where you, you realize I'm either going to be grounded for the rest of my life or my parent is going to just laugh at the absurdity of this. There's no middle ground, right?

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

There's no, like, you know, go to dinner, go to bed without dinner, or what? I don't know what a medium range punishment would be, but it's either I am grounded for life or we're all going to laugh about this because it's absolutely moved into the absurd.

[Andrew Walsh]

You just said something. This is kind of changing the conversation, but based on something you just said. I hadn't thought about that in a long time. The idea of a punishment being going to bed without dinner. Now that was something that was instituted in our house growing up from time to time, and I think somewhat regularly, but I haven't thought about that in years. There is no way that is in the parenting handbook in 2025. Right. Like, that is no, like even, like the idea of making a food part of a reward system is. Is even that is sort of like, you know, sort of looked at askance in some ways. But we still love a pizza party after. After a ball game or whatever.

[Luke Burbank]

Or after we've read a book.

[Andrew Walsh]

Exactly. Oh, yes, right. A mini pizza.

[Luke Burbank]

You've earned your pizza.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, God. It's the only reason I read at the end of this Joseph Mitchell book that I won't shut up about. I better get a damn pizza. I. But yeah, like What a. Like, withholding nutrients like that would be very frowned upon this day and age. But it sounds like that was a regular thing in your house, too, or at least you'd heard it.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, I don't actually. I don't remember that ever being an actual punishment in our house. There were certainly some meals I wouldn't have minded missing. I mean, here's the thing. We have listeners with kids. I have a kid, but she is now an adult who will soon begin receiving mailings from aarp. So I need to be careful about this. But, like, I do find it interesting. Here's. I guess this is a way for me to frame it. If I were to. I would be. I would be curious what my reaction would be if I were to, let's say, have a young child, which I'm pretty old for that. But let's just go with this hypothetical. If I had a couple of young kids, my feeling right now is that I would not be terrified about if they were eating or not, because I kind of think they would eat when they were hungry. And I do feel like it was. Well, yeah, I guess finish your plate was a thing when we were kids as well. But it does seem to me like I just. A lot of people who have extremely complicated situations with trying to get their kids to eat, and there seems to be a lot of concern around is the kid eating? And I just. I don't remember that. Maybe Addie just was a quote unquote, good eater as a kid or something. I don't know. I just. I can't shake the feeling that when a kid is sufficiently hungry, they will eat food and when they're not, they won't eat food and they'll probably survive the whole process. It seems like this whole being worried that your kid's not eating enough thing, it seems to have ramped up in the last 20 years. But again, that's from a person who doesn't have a kid. Maybe if I had little kids, I would. I would understand what all the talk is about.

[Andrew Walsh]

That's interesting. I don't know. And honestly, I don't want to weigh in because I don't want to read the emails about this. Like, I'm not a parent. And I just. So I literally don't know. I. I guess my only opinion is.

[Luke Burbank]

My parenting certification has expired, so I'm also not allowed to. I'm also not allowed to comment on this. I.

[Andrew Walsh]

It doesn't feel new to me. But again, I'm not a parent. I just. I shouldn't Even be commenting on this. But, like, I sort of feel like I always remember, like, picky eating kids and like, the struggle of getting kids to eat seems as, as. As old as the earth itself, sort of. It doesn't feel like a new phenomenon to me to try to get a kid to eat, especially like eat something that is like maybe green, like broccoli or something healthy.

[Luke Burbank]

Okay, well, let me, Let me frame it this way then. Taking out the nouveau nature of things. Taking out the idea that it's like current parents are more worried, let's just say from when we had ready access to plenty of food. So I don't know when that kicked in, maybe when we figured out agriculture or something.

[Andrew Walsh]

As humans.

[Luke Burbank]

As humans.

[Andrew Walsh]

Let's just talk about before my time.

[Luke Burbank]

A little bit like three years before your time and about two years and seven months before my time, because you forget I'm a little bit older.

[Andrew Walsh]

I know, sir, that's. You know that I'm totally stealing Sean Dottore's joke from like literally 20 years ago.

[Luke Burbank]

I forgot about that. That was a great joke.

[Andrew Walsh]

You said something. You called him a young man or something. And like you guys discovered he's just a few months younger than you. And he was like, oh, sorry, sir.

[Luke Burbank]

All this is to say when we get into the era, let's say post 1950s, where in most places I know there was food insecurity, I'm adding all the caveats. But assuming that we're in a household where there is enough food for everyone and assuming that we're in a part of the world or the part of the country where there is ready access to food. Food insecurity is not the issue here. Why, why has it been the case that parents are worried about kids not finishing their food? Is it that they're going to literally, like, waste away? I just, again, I'm. What I'm. Instead of indicting the parents of today, I want to indict all the parents of the last 60 to 70 years, Andrew, and just say, I don't think we need to force the kids to clean their plates. And this isn't anything about body types or weight or anything. I just think that it's. It's interesting to me that it is. It has been. You're right, it has been a huge focus of the attention of the parents of America. That's the only thing I can speak to probably the world, finish your plate. Finish all of that food. Or what? Or the kid is going to blow away in a stiff breeze because they don't have three more Brussels sprouts in their stomach like I know there is. If a kid were to not eat at all, they wouldn't grow, et cetera. But I just. I wonder if that has been. And if that ties into something parental. In other words, what is the most parental thing you can do or what is the most. What's the prime directive of being a parent as well? Protect your child, feed your child. You know, maybe there's something deep. This might explain why I was a bad parent. Maybe I didn't have this. I just. I don't. I guess I want to. I want to ask a question. You don't have to answer it. You've already. You've already indicated that you want no part of this conversation. But I just wonder how that everybody.

[Andrew Walsh]

To know that Luke's address is lukebtl.net, if you're mad at Luke, and I don't know why you would be, but if you're mad at Luke, don't send me an email telling me how mad you are about this conversation. But, you know, Luke won't read it and I will. That always feels a little unfair.

[Luke Burbank]

Now, that's, that's, that's, you know, that's a double punishment for you who didn't do anything wrong in this situation.

[Andrew Walsh]

Thank you. I appreciate the backup. But I'm sorry, did I cut you off, though, or did you make your point? I thought you're going to ask a question.

[Luke Burbank]

No, I think that the whole thing was just about the. About the food. About basically saying, yeah, you know, why are we trying to. Why are we trying to force kids to eat when they're probably going to just eat when they're hungry?

[Andrew Walsh]

Well, let me take a stab at answering that. But again, just kind of like, I don't know if people really need to hear this from me because I don't know my ass for my elbow when it comes to parenting. Actually, I could probably figure that part out, but I am guessing that it's about eating the right foods, sort of. And, like, because you and I, if we skip a meal, but then we get a little bit peckish later, we can kind of go to the refrigerator, maybe, like, fix something for ourselves. Fix something for ourselves. But, like, kids aren't really fixing something for themselves, especially very young kids. Right. And so there's a moment where the parent has prepared a meal that has a certain amount of nutrients and healthfulness to it or whatever.

[Luke Burbank]

Also not a thing I did.

[Andrew Walsh]

So, yeah, like, you know, as opposed to just being like, well, if you're hungry later, you'll just snack on some Jolly Ranchers. Again, not a parent, not a connoisseur of good snack foods apparently either. I don't know why I went with Jolly. I have a bucket of Jolly Ranchers in my cupboard right now.

[Luke Burbank]

You're just naming. You can snack on some staples. Oh, wait, he's looking at a stapler, everyone.

[Andrew Walsh]

Sorry. Literally, I bought those Jolly Ranchers in advance of my colonoscopy and I bought a whole bag of them so that I could have three green ones the day before my colonoscopy. And I just have tons of Jolly Ranchers. Anyway, you see my point here. It's kind of like, well, we've prepared a meal that is based on what the kid's nutritional needs are. So we've made this thing and if the kid isn't going to eat it and like, then first of all is going to be crying later and hungry. But, oh, what's the easiest thing to give them then? Something that isn't maybe as healthful or snacky. And it's probably stuff like that and maybe even just developing good habits.

[Luke Burbank]

Yes, everything you're saying is right. Don't get used to it. A kid will probably be cranky if they don't have enough calories in them. Also, they will want to eat something likely something kind of unhealthy later, like you said. And also, yeah, you worked hard on the meal. What I'm doing here, Andrew, I'm. I'm short circuiting all the emails that I would have gotten. All the emails that you would have gotten, because people know that I don't read the emails. So those are all real things. And, and yes, particularly if a parent worked hard on a meal and then the kid is just ignoring it, and then, you know, later on they're just going to want to eat lay's potato chips. I could totally see that being frustrating as a parent. I guess I just. Yeah, I. I tend to think that kids are probably will probably not end up doing themselves a physical harm by not eating. But then again, I don't have any little kids anymore, so I don't. I don't really need to be weighing in on this.

[Andrew Walsh]

I don't know why kids can't get tattoos.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, you know what, that reminds me. Let's talk about that.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, this is something. I was obviously joking. But, you know, Genevieve showed me a commercial the other day on the other podcast and after these messages that I did not know about this. It was a commercial promot.

[Luke Burbank]

Your other shows.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, you know, you would. You would never K U a w.

[Luke Burbank]

Plotless after these messages.

[Andrew Walsh]

And everybody come out to the Fitzgerald Theater tonight. I'm sorry, where do you do? Where do you do Livewire?

[Luke Burbank]

Alberta Rose Theater.

[Andrew Walsh]

Rose Theater.

[Luke Burbank]

Although we will be at the Fitzgerald Theater in St. Paul in September with guest Andrew Maria Bamford.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, that's fantastic. Oh, we got to use some of her intro tape soon. What I was going to say was genevieve show. And I'll make this very quick. I'm sorry to be all over the place, but she showed me a commercial from, I think the 80s or 90s on a recent episode. And, Luke, it was so gross. It was for Fruit Roll Ups, right? I love me some Fruit Roll Ups. And the whole point of this commercial is you have these kids and they're acting like adults. Like they're running the Fruit Roll up marketing campaign or something like that. And all these kids are coming in and pitching their ideas of how to make Fruit Roll Ups more fun. They're like, what's the next Fruit Roll Up Innovation? And it's really gross. Like, kids are coming in and they're like, look, I made a raincoat out of Fruit Roll Ups. They're like, next. And then somebody's like, look. What about. And then somebody made. Some kid holds up his foot and he's like, look, I made a sock out of Fruit Roll Ups. And they're like, ew, whatever. And so all these ideas are coming in, and they don't like any of them, except for this one, which might be the worst idea of them all. But this is what the commercial is literally for. And some of our listeners, maybe even you might remember this. I did not. But apparently Fruit Roll Ups did this thing where they put temporary tattoos on a Fruit Roll up so that you would unroll the Fruit Roll up, press it onto your skin to transfer the tattoo from the Fruit Roll up onto your skin, and then proceed to eat the Fruit Roll Up. Luke Burbank.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, Nate, why is that gross? I'm not. Not. I'm not having a go. Why is that more gross than a Fruit Roll Up? Sock it.

[Andrew Walsh]

Well, a sock is extremely gross. And, yeah, that would be the worst case scenario. You put a Fruit Roll up on your foot and then eat it. But, yeah, press it.

[Luke Burbank]

Or someone pays a lot of money to nibble it off.

[Andrew Walsh]

I mean, listen, I don't want to. There's a hose being sold at the Lowe's. I go to a lot, and I see it every time. I'm checking out it says something like, no kinks or kink free or something. I'm like, really? I thought we were past that as a society. I'm not trying to shame anybody here, but the idea of a kid taking a fruit roll up, rubbing it on their skin somewhere for enough time for it to transfer a tattoo, and then being like, okay, and now I'm going to eat this thing with all my skin grease on it. I'm.

[Luke Burbank]

I'm actually talking to an inveterate nail biter, though. That's the problem. I feel like if it's. I don't eat my nails after I bite them. I bite them, unfortunately, then I kind of tear them off a little bit. Then I dispose of them discreetly in your soup. And I haven't told you this in my garbage can.

[Andrew Walsh]

That's why I have no dog poop and no Luke fingernails. But.

[Luke Burbank]

But. So I. I guess to me it's like, if it's your own body, I feel like, how gross can your own body be like to yourself? Although really what it is is the outward elements on your skin. So in other words, it's not a question of is my skin gross to me? It's a question of, did I get something gross on my skin while I was out in the world? And now that's getting onto the fruit.

[Andrew Walsh]

Roll up, and it could. This could just be a testament to my. My skin is grosser than yours. Maybe I just have gross skin. Who knows?

[Luke Burbank]

I think that that is the only logical conclusion that any of us can draw from this. Andrew. Hey. I've got a question for you.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

Got any big weekend plans?

[Andrew Walsh]

Big weekend? The biggest one I've ever had.

[Luke Burbank]

Big weekend.

[Andrew Walsh]

I have, I think maybe one thing on the social calendar. Luke. But I don't want to talk about the social calendar right now. I want to talk about mulch. You were in my yard, I think, a week ago today, Right.

[Luke Burbank]

Looking good.

[Andrew Walsh]

Came over here. Yeah, thanks. I had laid down a bunch of stone that felt good to kind of clean up a certain area of the garden. But the garden itself is kind of in rough shape. Genevieve this week planted a few, like, kind of ground cover plants and some bare areas that we had. So I'm really excited to see those grow out. But more to the point, it just hasn't been super well maintained, aside from weeding once or twice a summer. So Viv's and I are like, we got it. Now that the stone is down, let's get ourselves some mulch. And I thought you might like this as A. As a mulch. Curious person yourself, I would guess, in your. In your own home ownership. And we've been talking. Jennifer said, oh, I think I know a mulch pile somewhere. I can get a tarp, and we can bring it home. I'm like. Like, Genevieve loves a deal, right? And somebody told her about some free mulch pile somewhere. And I'm like, we're going to buy a tarp, put in the back of our VW Golf, and, like, drive this across the city. Why don't we just spend that tarp money on bags of mulch that. Anyway, we're going back and forth on that.

[Luke Burbank]

But then, I mean, the irony is there was something called tarp money. That was the Troubled Assets Relief Program.

[Andrew Walsh]

That's what I'm talking about. Yeah. Why don't we use our tarp money? Be careful.

[Luke Burbank]

Get one of those PPE loans, too. They're gonna come for you.

[Andrew Walsh]

Well, Luke, it was like deus ex mulchina, because our neighbors just. You stalling. You making that tarp joke gave me just enough time to come up with that joke, which I'm proud of. But literally, across the street from us, there's a small little rental unit that might have, I don't know, two, maybe three units in there, and was walking by the other day, and a neighbor who lives there, and I'd never met her before, was standing next to a truck, looking at this big pile of mulch that was right in the little front area of this little. Of this little unit. And she really looked harried. She didn't. She looked like she didn't know what she was gonna do with this big pile of mulch. And as I'm walking by, I see that there's a small little sign that says free on it. And I'm like, wait, are you getting rid of this mulch? I'm your neighbor, by the way. And we say hello. She's like, yeah, I'm moving out pretty soon. But I. I got all this mulch from some sort of free mulch service, or at least maybe mulch delivery service. I don't know if she paid for it or not. She's like, it turns out I only needed, like, a tiny bit of it. I didn't realize how much was coming. And now we have this big pile. And I was looking at the pile, and I was like, oh, well, we live right across the street. We need mulch. We have a wheelbarrow that Genevieve is always looking for, like, reasons to defend her purchase of this wheelbarrow, which I don't think she needs to defend. A wheelbarrow is a very handy tool to have. And I was like, oh, we might take some of this. But as I'm talking to my neighbor, I'm kind of looking down at this mulch pile, and it's, like, really fresh. It's actually still got some green in it. Like, actual green leaves. Like, not like little flakes. Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

When you say mulch, is that, like, bark?

[Andrew Walsh]

Well, that's the thing. I think there's a lot of. I think that I should probably drill down on different styles of mulch. But, like, there's definitely some. It looks like woody material in here. That's been. It's a. It's a bunch of organic material that's been really ground up. Right. And yes, there's. Some of. It is like. It looks like some leaves. Like, little flakes of leaves that stood out to me because they were still green. I never seen new mulch like that before. And I was like, oh, this is great. But then, honestly, as I was talking to her more, I'm kind of looking at it. I'm like, this doesn't look that nice. I want something, like, really dark. Really?

[Luke Burbank]

You get what you don't pay for.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah. And I was like, no.

[Luke Burbank]

Well.

[Andrew Walsh]

And Genevieve was on board. I told her, I'm like, there's free mulch across the street. Put some eyes on it, but I think we should just buy some nice bags at the Lowe's where they have the kink shaming hoses or whatever. And she's like, yeah, I'm on board with you.

[Luke Burbank]

I got hose a different area load.

[Andrew Walsh]

And she's like, we already have a show title. Luke, stop competing. No. Anyway, so Genevieve's on board. She's like, yeah, let's buy some bags of nice mulch that we like. And I'm like, great, let's just do this. Let's not get free mulch. But I will say, Luke, I was driving by the mulch pile across the street. It's still there. The neighbors haven't gotten rid of it yet. And it's looking better and better. Like, when I first passed it about two weeks ago, I think it was really, really fresh. And so because of that, it didn't look that great to me. It was like, too many different colors in there, too. And I thought if we spread that out, it's just going to look junky, but. And I haven't gotten really good eyes on it, but I think it was just yesterday I was driving, and I don't know if it rained or something or what it was, but it's all sort of, it looks from afar like it's melding into a nice brown color like that. And I'm like, maybe we should give that. I mean, it would be so convenient if I just had to take a wheelbarrow and make like, you know, five to 10 trips across the street and suddenly we're mulched up over here. So that would be, that's my, that would be ideal.

[Luke Burbank]

Who was that who played Gene Parmesan? Was that Martin Mulch?

[Andrew Walsh]

That was Martin Mulch, Gene.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, I hired him a million years ago.

[Andrew Walsh]

Anyway, it sounds like you're going to.

[Luke Burbank]

Be mulching the living Tweedle out of your yard. Maybe I want weekend plan.

[Andrew Walsh]

I want to examine this mulch pile. But I was hearing from your little like kind of, I don't know, noises and interjections that you were making while I was blathering that you're more of a, like don't, don't underpay for mulch. Just go get some nice mulch that you like.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, I, first of all, I'm not even clear on what mulch is, so I can't claim to have a strong opinion. And I think it's that kind of barky stuff a little bit. You said it's basically shredded up organic matter.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, but you know, like. Well, but so to picture it what I would. When we first moved in here, the gardens were all mulched, but they were mulched with a really almost like. I don't think it's dye, but I don't know how they get it. But it was a very rare, it was a very red. When we first moved in, it was like this very red bright mulch. And it looked nice. Somebody had just taken care of it and. But over time that mulch, which again is like little. It's like, it is barky, it's a little bit woody. And whatever it is, it kind of covers the ground so it's not just dirt. Right. But then over time, the mulch just sort of gets absorbed and you know, weather happens and everything. And so now our, our gardens just look like dirt beds. And so we want to get some sort of rich looking, you know, mulch to put on top of it.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, you could start with what's across the street, spread it out and if you don't like it, you then could go buy the real stuff and put it on top of that.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's, that's a really good Point. It's not like, doable. Yeah. So I honestly, I'm kind of just into this idea of like, knowing that a neighbor is like, bemoaning the fact that they got too much mulch. It's across the street. And honestly, I'm not even joking. I really like pushing wheelbarrows. Now you put loading it full of. What was that? Bricks or stone or gravel. That sounded like a lot of work.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah. Also cinder blocks. That was not fun. But no, I like that. It's like a reverse gift of the magi. Well, you know how gift of the magi, she sells her hair so that she can buy him a, a, a chain for his watch and he sells his watch so he can buy her beautiful barrettes for her hair.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

This is the opposite. That this is. A neighbor has too much mulch. They don't know what to do with it, and you don't have enough mulch. This is so perfect. I do think you need to, you know, try to use the stuff across the street just because of the kismet of it all. And then if it doesn't work, just, just go, go to Lowe's and buy a bunch of bags of whatever and.

[Andrew Walsh]

Throw it down, put it on top. Yeah. I thought you meant pushing a wheelbarrow was like. That's why I got confused there, because. Oh, but are you with me? That a. Just a nicely balanced load in a wheel was very satisfying.

[Luke Burbank]

It's extremely satisfying. It's also. It feels like for just a moment, you're back in the agrarian times.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah. And that too, you can.

[Luke Burbank]

It feels like you're connecting with, you know, a different version of us when we were simpler and. And, you know, we worked hard all day, we went to bed with the sun and, you know, it was a different kind of life. You get that feeling when you're pushing a wheelbarrow.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yes, exactly. Although probably a lot of people are using wheelbarrows. I think it just speaks to our city slicker lifestyle.

[Luke Burbank]

Exactly, exactly. We have, as I often say, I have the soft hands of a podcast. It's very clear that I have never done an honest day's labor in my life. Speaking of honest labor, Andrew, the labor of writing the song Creep by Radiohead and also Plush by Stone Temple Pilots. The people who wrote that music are owed money according to ascap, because they have sued. Have you ever been there? Is it pono or Pono?

[Andrew Walsh]

I've never even heard of this place before.

[Luke Burbank]

It's cool. They've got a few different locations there's also one on Aurora. It has a different name, but what they seem to do, the folks that own these, I guess you'd call it a bar restaurant, is they'll take over kind of an odd urban space and then just make this big sprawling thing with games you can play. And they're very popular.

[Andrew Walsh]

I'm looking at a map now. I'm sorry. I've passed this place. I've walked by it a bunch, and I'm always really intrigued by it. Do you think these are the same people that own Bong, where they took over a gas station off of a Roaring.

[Luke Burbank]

That's the one on Aurora that I was talking about.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, there's a. Yeah, of course. There's a vibe that makes sense between these two places. I like the one. The one near us is called Bongos. I like that place.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah. So they have been sued because they have been allowing live music at the venue. And somebody playing the live music apparently covered the Stone Temple pilot song Plush, and also covered the. The song Creep by Radiohead. I don't know why the ASCAP people decided to cite those two songs. There's probably a lot of songs being played that were protected. I didn't even realize, by the way, that this applied to live performance. When you told me about the story on yesterday's show, I assumed it was. They just had, like, an eye, you know, what's gonna say? I just assumed they had a Zune playing. You know, they had an ipod, like anyone has an ipod anymore. I assume they were just playing music over the stereo that they were not supposed to play.

[Andrew Walsh]

Me too. I think you thought that because I misstated it.

[Luke Burbank]

Apologies, but I didn't realize that even if you have a. A cover band playing songs, technically, you're supposed to be paying as cap for this, for the.

[Andrew Walsh]

Right.

[Luke Burbank]

You're supposed to be licensing it so that anything that goes on in that bar, restaurant over the course of the year is. Is. Is paid for. And that money will allegedly get its way back to Tom York of Radiohead.

[Andrew Walsh]

Right. Like, whatever the percentage is. And I'm generally. I think you need this, right? Because musicians. I don't know musicians. I'm not exactly flush. I feel like musicians, they're. We're chipping away more and more at the way musicians can earn a living on their. On their music. Unless they're like, you know, the. The 1% of popular.

[Luke Burbank]

But that's the thing. Only the 1% will be covered at Panos Pono.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, true. You know what I mean?

[Luke Burbank]

By definition, it's going to be a song by, like, it's going to be by Prince or it's going to be by Radiohead, or it's going to be by Sheryl Crow. Right. You know, like, that's the thing. Thing to me is, like, yeah, if I. And we have lots of musicians in the audience and. And friends with musicians and people that. Yeah, it's a. It's really challenging to make a living doing it. And I think artists should absolutely be paid for their work a hundred percent. This just seems like such a weird. Like, Tom York is going to get the. One of the numbers I saw thrown out there was like 750, although I guess it might be more for this place based on its size.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, it would be like a yearly fee, they're estimating, of a place of a thousand dollars.

[Luke Burbank]

He's.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, well, I remember that it said.

[Luke Burbank]

It said low four figures, but I can't even figure out what that means.

[Andrew Walsh]

So they said, if you're a business that has, let's say, about room for 100 customers at a time, you're probably paying about whatever. You said that $750 range yearly license for this kind of thing. But then that same. I think it was the same person in the article said, now ponos or ponos is a little bit bigger than that. So it'd be more than 750 bucks. It would probably be in the low thousands. Four figures.

[Luke Burbank]

Yes. So that thousand dollars that. That ponos would pay to ascap, I guess a very small amount of that would be. Would be divided up and it would go, I guess, to specifically Radiohead. This is the part that the article doesn't say. Does it just go out to every ASCAP member or does it go out to anyone whose song was played at this place? I guess it must go out to every member or something. Right. Like, how is that money actually distributed? Because the idea is, is you pay this fee regardless of what specific songs get covered at your bar over the course of a year. You've got to pay ASCAP for the right to have ASCAP music played there. Then where does that money go? Does it just get sent to every member of ASCAP gets a cut of this? Does it?

[Andrew Walsh]

Of, like. Yeah, like, does. Does every musician get some sort of cut of, let's say, ASCAP's yearly income from.

[Luke Burbank]

Because otherwise you've got to be sitting at Panos and every other place keeping track of how many times they played Radiohead versus how many times they played, yeah, you know, Bare Naked Ladies and then You've got to send it out accordingly. And that just seems like an impossible task.

[Andrew Walsh]

No, no, it wouldn't be that. I don't think so. It's basically a blanket license, right? And it's the same. I mean, these are the same people who enforce it for radio stations. Like, that's why when, you know, when you and I worked for radio, we could bump in with. With any song we wanted to and not have any second thoughts or concerns about whether or not we were breaking any kind of copyright. Because we always worked for radio stations that inherently are just like, yearly by nature of being a radio station, you're paying ASCAP and BMI fees, which are like blanket licenses, and you pay whatever you're supposed to pay based on your institution, and that gives you the right to play anything. And then when you go independent or the digital stuff is just different than broadcast anyway. But basically, radio stations pay it, as do businesses that are playing or perform or allowing music to be performed in some way. And. But I don't know the final step of that when ascap, everybody pays these. Not even just enforcements, but everybody pays these blanket licenses. I'm assuming that then askap, like, distributes some to artists. But that's a really good point. I don't know how that last step works.

[Luke Burbank]

And also, this definitely seems like one of those lawsuits where, I mean, they could probably be suing thousands and thousands of bars and restaurants in America. They don't sort of like the IRS auditing someone, you know, they just hope that the fear of being audited will make all the rest of the people comply. And that seems to be very much what this is, because, I mean, if ASCAP has to take this to trial to win their $1,000, it's a terrible use of their money based on how much it'll cost them to litigate this. But of course, they're just trying to get everybody else into compliance over this. Now, this is not the first time this topic has been written about, Andrew. I understand that the Joseph Mitchell himself once wrote about this very topic.

[Andrew Walsh]

Who's that? Just kidding.

[Luke Burbank]

He's a guy that I read a lot.

[Andrew Walsh]

I couldn't stop talking about this.

[Luke Burbank]

I haven't heard of him.

[Andrew Walsh]

This book that I have called My Ears Are Bent, it's a collection of essays by this writer, Joseph Mitchell, who I don't even know how I got this book. I've had it for, like, over 20 years now. But at some point, maybe it was a free book from my job at the radio station. And we Weren't doing anything with it, so I grabbed it. Love, you're gonna love this writing style. So Joseph Mitchell wrote a lot for, like, the New Yorker and those kind of, like, little profiles he would do of everyday people.

[Luke Burbank]

First of all, have you seen a.

[Andrew Walsh]

Picture of Joseph Mitchell on the front of this book? Yeah. He's, like, wearing a suit and a fedora, leaning up against a building in probably, like, 1940.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, when he doesn't have the fedora on, every other photo of him looks in the best way, I would just say, man Zukasesque. Oh, really wild hair. I'll send you the picture. Smoking a cigarette. His hair is all wild. He's got a drink in his hand. He seemed like a real character.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, this is a very. That's a very different look than what I'm getting from him. From the front of this book, which you can see actually as yesterday's show pick, I took a photo of the COVID of this book. By the way, let me just read to you from the. I'm going to read you a little bit about this ASCAP BMI investigator, or I guess an ASCAP investigator that he writes about. I think this is from the 30s, by the way. But let me just read to you the front flap. Introducing this book. Book in the fall of. And I'm wondering. I mean, I know. I think it just really speaks to his style of humor. I'm guessing he didn't write this himself, but it says in the fall of 1929, a young man from a small farming town. Farming. A small farming town in the swamp country of North Carolina arrived in New York City because of a preternatural ineptitude for mathematics. He had failed to receive a college degree from the University of North Carolina and suffered the added misfortune of arriving in the big city at the moment the stock market crashed. So anyway, I just love the fact that his bio starts by talking about his failure and, like, how he showed up. Like, he's terrible at math and he showed up in New York City from the country. But what I really wanted to share with you, and I really worry about my ability to sort of, like, read on the fly, especially as my eyesight gets worse and worse.

[Luke Burbank]

Should I play some ASCAP protected music?

[Andrew Walsh]

I have some here that I was going to play. This is literally. I mean, this is music that we use for our hey Dummies videos. And I specifically grab this because we use it on YouTube.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, this is okay. By the way, can I clarify one quick thing?

[Andrew Walsh]

Yes.

[Luke Burbank]

Save people some Time. It would appear that Joseph Mitchell wrote a book about a wild man named Joe Gould. And I think the book was called Joe Gould's Secret. And I believe I was sending you a picture of Joe Gould because you're right. Joe Mitchell himself. Himself.

[Andrew Walsh]

Very straight lace, very buttoned up. Very straight lace. Looks like Dragnet, you know?

[Luke Burbank]

Yes, but this, whoever this Joe Gould guy was, I want to get to know him. He looks like a absolute wild man.

[Andrew Walsh]

Well, you're more of a Joe Gould. I'm more of a Joe Mitchell. Okay, so here it is. This is a little piece he wrote. I don't know when this appeared, but it's clearly like. Takes place in New York City. And I'm guessing it might even say in here at one point when I'm reading it. This is like I'm thinking 1930s. And this is a little profile that he wrote. Is gonna read the beginning of this. Of an ASCAP investigator. You ready for this? In this agitated metropolis, nightlife joints. I'm going to start that over. I'm already doing great. In this agitated metropolis, nightlife joints sprout like jimson weeds after a spring rain.

[Luke Burbank]

Boy, jimson weed really had a moment between. What's the old country western song? Where the lonely gypsum weed. Where the longhorn cattle feed on the lonely gypsum weed. Back in the saddle again.

[Andrew Walsh]

By the way, Mission to sing that, Luke.

[Luke Burbank]

I didn't.

[Andrew Walsh]

Again.

[Luke Burbank]

This is a whole new thing for me. Even singing these songs is prohibited. I thought playing them was.

[Andrew Walsh]

Anyway, we'll be taken down. By the way, my little, little restart there before I feel bad about it. It wasn't a great way to begin, but there really should be a comma in that sentence. In this agitated metropolis, comma, nightlife joints sprout like Jim, some weeds after a spring rain. A former coffee pot counterman with delusions of grandeur withdraws his savings and leases a vacant store, a cellar or a second floor hall. Carpenters erect a secondhand bar with defective beer pipes and hammer some grooved boards together for a dance floor. A few cases of what are known as choice wines and liquors are toted in and checked. Gingham cloths are laid on two dozen unsteady tables. The proprietor's wife buys some pots and pans and two bottles of pickled cherries and turns the kitchen over to the chef. An unshaven ex plumber. Ms. Lucy DeLulu, an Apprentice fan dancer, is hired at $12.50 a week. And an orchestra, piano, violin, saxophone and drums is engaged Neon signs begin to flicker and El Clippo is born before the handle on the cash register is greasy. An investigator from ASCAP, or the American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers, 30 Rockefeller Plaza, hears about the establishment known as El Clippo. The moment a night spot using music sprouts up, he is supposed to get in on the job. He drives by night and sees neon signs or he sees an advertisement. Advertisement El Clippo may be far up in the Bronx, under el Trax on 3rd Avenue, or in the heart of Harlem. But before many nights go by, the investigator is scribbling notes on little cards. It's his job to convince the outraged proprietor that he has to get a license from ASCAP before the orchestra can legally play such artistic numbers as It's a sin to tell a lie or these foolish things remind me of you. It's a thorny job, said Russell W. Rome, a former Wesleyan University football player and one of the most resourceful ASCAP investigators. The majority of backers for cabarets and dance halls in New York are real tough characters. Not all are cutthroats, of course, but you won't find many who go to Sunday school. Some were on the liquor racket during Prohibition, and some were gangsters or gamblers. Here's my last bit of this quote from the ASCAP person when you drop in to tell them. ASCAP represents the songwriters and publishers who own the copyrights on most of the songs they play and that they will have to get a license from us before they can play them legally. They usually say it's a racket. Get out of here, you bum. You sneak. You dope. I'll leave it there. Dude, you would love this guy's writing. Is that not delightful?

[Luke Burbank]

That's amazing.

[Andrew Walsh]

I love this book. I gotta reread this.

[Luke Burbank]

My Ears are Bent is the name of the book.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yes. In other words, he goes around letting people bend his ears.

[Luke Burbank]

That's great.

[Andrew Walsh]

I also love that expression.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, no, that is really, really good. Really good. I kept wanting to interject things like. Like when he was describing the dancers, I wanted to say she was a shake dancer.

[Andrew Walsh]

She was a shake dancer.

[Luke Burbank]

She did the hood.

[Andrew Walsh]

She could. Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

So that's incredible. Hey, you know. But I. I will say this.

[Andrew Walsh]

Good.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, I don't. I mean, what do you think? Do you feel like. Is Joe Mitchell. I guess he's not weighing in on whether or not he thinks it's actually okay for like. Like it. I feel to a degree like this. Well, I don't want to say that because we do have people who make music in the audience. And they'd be like, well, if we don't have the ass Kids enforcer, then we don't get paid for our music. And then, you know, we don't get to do that for their. For our job. Which is. Which is a reasonable thing. But I was going to say, I'm trying to figure out if Joe Mitchell is pro or con the ASCAP enforcer.

[Andrew Walsh]

I think he's just telling these people's stories. I'm looking ahead to see if there's a tone here. The interesting thing is the next graph, which I won't read, is basically like a 1930s version of the graph we just read from the Seattle Times that's talking about, like, how much it would cost a joint like this. In this one, it says about $210 a year. Now it's like 740, you said, which actually doesn't seem that bad with inflation. And so there's a lot of quotes from people on both sides of it. It sounds like he's mostly, though, doing an essay or a little profile on the ASCAP guy. So I think it's mostly from that perspective, kind of a.

[Luke Burbank]

It's a. It's a thankless job.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, my God, this is so good. I didn't realize it. So long. He handed him the paper. The boss tore it up and knocked. Knocked the marshal flat on his back. I picked up the pieces, handed them back to the boss and ran. Door. I usually keep between the proprietor and the door. That's a good policy. That's a quote from one of these ASCAP guys who's getting his ass kicked as he's going. He's getting his ass cap kicked as he's going.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, that's what I was thinking. Every time we say ascap, I can't help but think about how close to various ass words it is.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, right.

[Luke Burbank]

When they name this organization, I have the sense that ass was not in as heavy usage as it is now. I feel like you would never name your company ass or your organization ass.

[Andrew Walsh]

Do you know that? I know somebody, and this is just striking me now who's gotten busted for something along these lines. And I think this is going to irritate you. And the person who got busted. Can I say this? Was my father. I'm just remembering this.

[Luke Burbank]

I'm thinking, why would that bother me?

[Andrew Walsh]

I think the story of getting busted is going to bother you because I can tell, like, kind of on what side you're sort of leaning on this and listen to this.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, I'm always on Bob Walsh's side.

[Andrew Walsh]

You're all. That's right.

[Luke Burbank]

Important thing.

[Andrew Walsh]

Luke Burbank. I on Luke. I messed that up. Okay. You're always on Bob Walsh's side at Walsh Manufacturing. Yes. You know what it was hold music. I'm just remembering this now. I wish. I wish I had talked to my dad about this. I could get the details. Here's my memory of it. And I'll try to see if I. If I have this right and report back as if you care. But I'm gonna say this is late 90s, maybe. I feel like I'm in college at this point. So maybe it's like late 90s, and my dad's telling me this story that, you know, you call Walsh Manufacturing, you're put on hold for a brief period of time. Don't worry. At Walsh Manufacturing, we don't keep you on hold for long periods of time. But, you know, you call the front desk. Cher or Sherry answers the phone back in the day, and then she. And you asked to talk to Frank or Bob Walsh. She says, sure, just a minute. She puts you on hold. When she puts you on hold, I remember up in the very recesses of this tiny attic at Walsh Manufacturing was where, like, the phone equipment was. It was like, literally, like, probably like what you used to podcast with. I feel like there was a stick holding it up or something like this tiny little area, and they just had a radio receiver plugged into the phone system, and they had it tuned to the local classical music station. My family, huge classical music people but thought, hey, that's a good thing to have on hold. Right. And just some little bits of classical music. And I don't know if it was the station or I don't think so. I think that it's somebody's job to go and police this stuff to probably make a bunch of phone calls, because I doubt some customer narcked out. I don't think somebody who wanted, like, a rotating parts washer was like, hey, you don't have the rights to play that Brahms. So somebody must go around, like, kind of checking on these things and. Or heard the music and said, you can't do that. You can't just play a classical radio station. And then I think the company had to, like, just buy some generic hold music.

[Luke Burbank]

Or it's also possible that they just absolutely carpet bomb an area with letters.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

Just to see who gets back to them.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

You know what I mean? Like, basically saying, you know, just. Just so you know, you're not allowed to play as cat protected music as your hold music or in your facility or whatever. Whatever. And they probably just send out hundreds and hundreds of those. And then there's, you know, the 10 people who go, okay, I'll give you the, you know, I'll pay the licensing fee or whatever. Or I guess they also could just be calling everybody. So they called Walsh Manufacturing, potentially with no manufacturing needs. Presumably they didn't need anything fabricated.

[Andrew Walsh]

I don't know how this got tipped off, but. Yeah, and maybe they just pretend. I mean, how did they. How did they get to the hold music part? You know what I mean? They must have known enough to have to ask for somebody by name in the company, right? Or at least maybe.

[Luke Burbank]

Or again, they just. They sent that out to every single business in the area just to see if they could, you know, get a couple people to sign up and actually pay the licensing fee.

[Andrew Walsh]

Let me. Let me see. I. I owe that guy a call anyway. That guy being my dad. Let me see if I can get some more details on that and report back, because that I am wondering, how did he get.

[Luke Burbank]

Who?

[Andrew Walsh]

Narc. Luke.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah. And how would you even know to narc that out, like, in a million years? No matter how mad I was at your dad and I've been mad at him.

[Andrew Walsh]

I know, I know. You guys have been getting along pretty well.

[Luke Burbank]

We've got. We've gotten past it. Things are good now. But, like, it wouldn't even occur to me, like, if I was someone's rival and I had called them and been put on hold, it would never even occur to me that you can report the hold music to someone, you know. Yeah, wouldn't even. Most people wouldn't even know. That is a Narca thing.

[Andrew Walsh]

Exactly. So that's why I think somebody was looking for it. I wonder if, like, now I actually am. Now I'm like, now I'm retroactively mad. I'm like, wait, was this legit or was this just somebody? I mean, could it have been, like, a scam or somebody who, like, kind of knows enough about the law to know it could be an issue? But then, like, who did they actually. If they. I know that they physically changed the music that they used. I'm wondering, as opposed to paying it? Well, I know. I mean, they couldn't go forward. Oh, yeah. As opposed to paying that. But that's what I mean. Like, I. Was it ascap they called him? Or was it some other company that might be hired by an Ask? Yeah, Kind of thing. Or is it kind of like a company that just.

[Luke Burbank]

Bounty hunter?

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, right.

[Luke Burbank]

They get their little slice of it. So their job is to go out and basically identify. And that could be also the people that are just sending out massive numbers of like formal sounding letters that are kind of threatening and then just seeing who responds, seeing what they can collect on, you know, or, you know, what.

[Andrew Walsh]

It could have been. And this is making my. I need to get details because I'm now I'm suddenly like convinced that my, my dad was maybe duped in some way. And I don't think that's the case. I'll figure out what happened here. But it could be some company that sells hold music. Ah, it could be a company that sells hold music and saying in kind of an official way, you know, you're not allowed to do that. And they're probably right. You're not allowed to just play the radio maybe, but then takes advantage of it and says, but if you buy our package for, you know, two grand.

[Luke Burbank]

Or whatever, I feel like I do not. I don't think your dad got, quote unquote, scammed, but I do think it sounds more to me like some sort of either hold music company or kind of middleman person who just goes around, you know, basically quote unquote, on behalf of ascap. But then it just has figured out that you can get some money from folks and then, you know, some of it gets passed back to ASCAP maybe. What I would like to say though is that if anybody would like to use TBTL as the hold music, you are welcome to.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh my gosh, what would that do to your customer base?

[Luke Burbank]

Destroy it.

[Andrew Walsh]

Can you imagine?

[Luke Burbank]

Just flatten it.

[Andrew Walsh]

Just hold one moment, please. And then you're just like, boom, needle dropped right in the middle of this conversation. And you're like, oh my God, is that guy reading from my favorite Joseph Mitchell book?

[Luke Burbank]

Is. Is that one guy emailing the other guy a picture? He thinks Mitchell, but it's a totally.

[Andrew Walsh]

Different person, a very different vibe.

[Luke Burbank]

Wow, that's. Hey, could you put me back on hold? I wanted to hear how that hot dog story ended.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, here, you sent me this. Let me. Oh. Oh my God, you're right. Well, this is definitely not Joseph Mitchell, but my God, Manzuka's energy for sure on this guy.

[Luke Burbank]

And now that you've read me some Joseph Mitchell, I want to read Joseph Mitchell's book about that guy.

[Andrew Walsh]

I know I have done a lot for Joseph Mitchell this week on the.

[Luke Burbank]

Show for the estate of Joseph Mitchell.

[Andrew Walsh]

So Right. Well, anyway.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, my friend, what do you think? Should we. Should we wrap it up? We've got a. We've got an important business boy meeting to get to and all kinds of things to do. You've got mulch to wheelbarrow.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, yeah, I bet you everybody's pretty.

[Luke Burbank]

Excited UFC to watch. Actually, I've got power slapping still going.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh yeah, that's still on the horizon, huh? We'll get a report on that on Monday. I think more people are going to be interested in the mulch than the power slapping.

[Luke Burbank]

I honestly, I'm probably more interested in mulch talk that you want to know where I'm at in my life.

[Andrew Walsh]

Power mulching.

[Luke Burbank]

I am looking at a bus that's going down. I think it's Tropicana. And it's for these attorneys, Andrew Lerner and Row. And it is exactly our billboard. Is it like arms crossed, two guys in suits on either end of where it says learner and row injury attorneys?

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, my God. If people have not seen the TBTL billboard yet and you didn't see it in the newsletter and you don't get the newsletter, you can go to the website and look at, I think Wednesday's episode of tbt. I'll look at the show pick and you'll see our new billboard as it stands, as it stands right now along the side of a state highway outside of Friendship, Wisconsin.

[Luke Burbank]

Absolutely. Where we will be in July for this year's TBT L A thon including a picnic get together on that Friday of the week, that will be in Friendship. So anyway, look forward to that. In the meantime, time that brings us to the end of this broadcast week. Thank you so much for spending all this time with us. Even if you were just on hold with Kaiser Permanente and we're now settling the entertainment.

[Andrew Walsh]

We landed a big account.

[Luke Burbank]

Why start small?

[Andrew Walsh]

Andrew, wow, that's great news.

[Luke Burbank]

Thank you for spending the time with us this week. We are going to be right back here on Monday with more imaginary radio for all of you. In the meantime, have a great weekend, take care of yourselves, stay safe, and please remember, no mountain too tall.

[Andrew Walsh]

And good luck to all. Power out.