Andrew (2:04)

This show is a joke. You are a joke.

Luke Burbank (2:07)

Coming to you from the Madrona Hill Studio, perched high above the mighty Columbia, where it is just absolutely raining and. And windy. I know you like to get wet, though. It's just miserable out there. I had to to wear a raincoat from my little house out here to this little converted garage that we call the Madrona Hill Studio. Thank God I was getting after it yesterday on yard duty because I knew today was going to be not a nice day to be outside. It's a nice day to be inside listening to episode 4696 in a collector series, Let the fun begin. Yes, that's right. It is April 1st. April Fool's Day. We will. We will not be fooling around Today on the show, we will not be presenting you any made up news stories or trying to trick you or do any of that kind of stuff. We're going to talk about real things happening in the real world. Like a judge in Texas who was having an IT problem and then had, by the way, the world's nicest IT guy come out and try to fix it. This is like in the courtroom. And the judge was so mean to him that the Internet has taken notice and this judge is getting a lot of, I would say, well deserved grief. So we will talk about that. Also, I have, I have two updates. One, I mentioned this yesterday. We never got to an update on my, my, I was wrongfully accused of illegally parking in Portland, Oregon recently. And, and I found out a little bit more about the case being brought against me. And then I've also. Well, you know what, let's just say hi to this guy first and then we'll get into my little, the little miracle that occurred for me this morning. He is the longest running cobra of the show, maybe best known for his depictions of the tall ships.

Andrew (3:57)

I say, what's up, dog?

Luke Burbank (3:59)

He is a future dog owner. He is Andrew Walsh and he's joining me right now. Good morning, my friend.

Andrew (4:03)

Good morning, Luke. You said something in your intro. I was listening today. It gave me a warm, kind of cozy feeling. Yeah, exactly. It was all right. It was okay. It's kind of like Marin, you know, you just kind of skip to the interview. People.

Luke Burbank (4:17)

Somebody said that there was, I, I think it might have been Chris Fleming because pretty much Chris Fleming. If Chris Fleming started a religion, I would join at this point.

Andrew (4:28)

He looks like somebody who could potentially start a religion.

Luke Burbank (4:30)

He could really get away with it. There's something messianic about. He's got the long hair, he's thin, he looks good on a cross. But, but somebody was, somebody said something about, for, like there should be a premium feature on the Marc Maron podcast that you could just, you know, you'd hit a button and you would just start where the guest was. Right, right. And I thought, you know, if Mark. Thankfully, Mark retired on top, so I don't think he has to. Too much of his ego is tied up in how people perceive the Marc Maron show now because he certainly got his flowers on the way out. But I kind of thought, yeah, I kind of relate to that. I was a big fan of the interviews on that show.

Andrew (5:05)

Yeah, I wasn't a big listener of that show, but I knew that that was always kind of the said about it was just get to the interview. But I don't know. I can't. I can't speak on that myself as somebody who didn't listen all that much. But I will say that the little image that you maybe accidentally conjured for me while talking about how it's kind of rainy outside, and then you just said, well, it's a great day to stay inside and listen to tbtl. Listen, this is a podcast. I know that's not literally how things work like this. People could be listening to this well into the future on a bright, sunny day. Maybe they're listening in a different part of the world where it's very nice. Right. You know, it doesn't work that way. But it really made me picture, like, people being like, ugh, it's a rainy day. Let's just build, like a blanket fort in the living room and cuddle underneath that and just like turn on the little Bluetooth speaker and listen to some tbtl. That's what I think people are doing.

Luke Burbank (5:57)

Maybe make some Lipton chicken noodle soup. The kind of the weird little noodles that are, like, all dehydrated and chopped up, but then so delicious when they rehydrate.

Andrew (6:09)

Drink it out of a mug, like cup of soup or something like that. That's what I hope everybody's doing right now. Unless you're listening to this in August, in which case I hope you're on a beach.

Luke Burbank (6:18)

Yeah, I hope you're wherever you need to be to have the optimal experience. Listening to TBTL today because, Andrew, I have some very exciting news. And by exciting news, I mean exciting only to me. But do you remember, like, a few weeks ago I said in passing, I was talking, as I do so much on the show, about, like, some weird TikTok trend. And what I was talking about was this odd sort of like, niche sort of videos where an animal is being rescued and, like, nursed back to health and then becomes part of, like, the family that it nursed it back to health or the farm where they rescued it or whatever. But it was something odd about these videos because, like, they, first of all, a lot of them seem like they might be actually happening in Europe or other parts of the world. But they don't want you to know that, I think, because maybe there's a thought like, I think someone is just farming these videos, right? They're just like putting these videos out to try to get clicks. They're not even the person who did the rescuing of the animal. But what they've learned is that If I think this person lives down the street from me who rescued this little, you know, like matted dog out of an alley, I will be more interested in the video, even though I can tell by the context of this matted dog was somewhere in Mexico.

Andrew (7:34)

Interesting. So there's something about the video. And first of all, for whatever it's worth, and I'm not negging you here, I don't remember you talking about this. I don't know if this could have been on a show that I was out for.

Luke Burbank (7:42)

You were on it because we tried to find. I'm going to tell you something in a minute that will probably jog your memory.

Andrew (7:47)

Okay? But either way, just to be clear about what you're talking about now is somehow these are like sort of geotagged or at least labeled in a way that is supposed to make you think that they're a little bit more local to you personally.

Luke Burbank (7:59)

Well, what it is is that they're extremely vague.

Andrew (8:02)

Okay.

Luke Burbank (8:03)

There's no talking generally on the videos. And it's often like a guy, like a good sort of. A sort of good looking maybe guy in his 20s or 30s who like finds some little animal. Which again, I'm not saying good looking guys in their 20s or 30s don't find bedraggled animals and help them, but that almost just feels like some kind of rf.

Andrew (8:22)

I do remember you saying that now. And that makes sense. Like, I don't know.

Luke Burbank (8:26)

And that there's always this weird like super chopped and screwed hip hop version of Let the bodies hit.

Andrew (8:31)

Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah, I remember this conversation.

Luke Burbank (8:34)

And like I was like, why is that the song for this style of video? It's so strange. And wouldn't you know, I was people, you know, people say, stop staring at that phone, Burbank. Turning your brain into bubblegum. But if I had stopped staring at my phone last night, I wouldn't have happened across one of these videos again. Which, by the way, I hadn't seen in a long time. And when we tried to find the music, we couldn't.

Andrew (8:56)

Yes, okay.

Luke Burbank (8:57)

I was googling around like, let the bodies hit the floor. Animal rescue video. Attractive guy in his 20s or 30s. Like, I could never get back to it.

Andrew (9:05)

It did give us the good show title when you dropped your milk the other day. Or we're telling a story about that. Let the botulism hit the floor is one of my favorite show titles that you came up with that.

Luke Burbank (9:15)

But yeah, I just, I just. What I had to do was I had to release desire. I Had to enter just like a flow state and I had to wait for the universe, AKA the algorithm, to deliver back to me one of these bizarre videos. This one was like my husband again with the attractive. It's like my husband, it's like my husband thought he was rescuing a duck, but it turned out to be a crow. And it's like a footage of a guy in a wetsuit, an attractive guy in his 20s or 30s, and he's like wading into like a kind of a, like a fountain river. It's like the interior of a European city is what it looks like. And it looks like there's a water feature of some kind where there's like some sort of man made little river type of thing that's flowing through this town, if that makes any sense. But it's cobblestone, the buildings in the background. It definitely looks like, it looks like this is in Europe somewhere. And there's a guy in like a, he's in a, like in a wetsuit too, standing in this like river thing and he's picking out a little bird out of the water. And we're made to believe that that bird that he thought was a duck turned out to be a crow. And now the family is raising the crowd. But what I was intrigued by was that of course they were using this weird song. And I'm gonna play it for you. You're gonna hear some crow sounds as the crow is getting older and they're raising the crow. Although it's not even clear to me if the crow in question is actually the same crow or from the same family. In other words, I think what this, I think what this either bot or person did was found a video of a guy pulling something out of a river, some small waterfowl, and then, and then went and like clipped together different random videos of people who are just raising crows in their home environment, like as a pet and are taking care of it and doing fun, fun things with it. And then they laid down to let the bodies hit the floor track.

Andrew (11:09)

Uh huh.

Luke Burbank (11:10)

And, and they're hoping that's gonna get some engagement. That's my theory.

Andrew (11:14)

You don't think that the whole thing could just be AI?

Luke Burbank (11:17)

I don't think so. Because the video, I mean there's plenty of videos of them like brushing someone's like someone's like brushing the crows. What?

Andrew (11:26)

Fur. Feathers.

Luke Burbank (11:27)

Feathers. Feathers, I guess. And like, and, and there's like, there's. The crow is getting older and it's like I'm playing with the cat, which is very cute, by the way. I was thinking of Bingo and Future Dog, but it's. It's not. I don't think it's all AI created. I actually think it was all AI created. It'd actually be a little more. Yeah, it'd be better.

Andrew (11:45)

Yeah.

Luke Burbank (11:46)

I mean it would be more uncanny in a way because we still haven't quite got there with stuff.

Andrew (11:50)

But it would. Jesus raising the bird for some reason.

Luke Burbank (11:53)

It'd be like baby who's in an iron lung singing to a crow. I just want. This is so much build up for death again. But I just.

Andrew (12:02)

I want to hear it.

Luke Burbank (12:03)

Stupid song. Okay. Get on the floor. By the way. What a weird song to put underneath.

Andrew (12:31)

It really is like.

Luke Burbank (12:33)

And this. I'm telling you, this is the sonic signature of this style of video. It's the most weird thing ever.

Andrew (12:41)

It all feels so.

Luke Burbank (12:44)

And I literally cannot beyond brain rot.

Andrew (12:47)

Yes. It feels. The only word I can think of was crappy. Like everything is. I feel like you've done a good job of describing this or. I've seen enough stuff that is sort of like this. Although this isn't exactly my, you know, my points of interest. But like I feel like I can kind of picture what you're talking about and you're. I just slopped. It just feels so sloppy and crappy. It's really.

Luke Burbank (13:06)

Yeah, it just came out of, you know, like in one of those Lord of the Ring movies where they're like, a big battle is about to happen and I think it's. Sauron is making like new orcs and there's this. Or what. I don't know if they're orcs technically. Don't get at me. David might be chilly, but like there's this big cauldron and like weird like bad guys, okay, are being like somehow hatched or cooked or made in this cauldron and they kind of burst out of it and they're like, whoa, I'm scary like this.

Andrew (13:37)

And they're probably scared to think about that. They're scary and scared because they're brand new to this world. They're just being launched into this world.

Luke Burbank (13:44)

They're being hard launched battle.

Andrew (13:47)

Yeah.

Luke Burbank (13:47)

To go fight, you know, Aragorn. And they don't even know, you know. That's a really good point. I hadn't thought of it from their perspective, but this feels like these videos are somehow. They come out of the one cauldron over from that guy. Like, it's just. It's just kind of like it's. They know that, like, cute animals gets engagement. They know that, like, my cute husbands gets engagement. And they have decided somehow that this let the bodies hit the floor like, mashup of, like, 30 different songs also is gonna get some engagement. That's the crow. That's the crowd. Don't you wish your girlfriend was hot like me, Andrew, It's a question for the ages. And exactly where my mind is when I'm watching a crowbing rescue, I'm just gonna play.

Andrew (14:54)

Is that what the lyrics are? I wasn't even.

Luke Burbank (14:55)

Well, it's that song. Don't you wish your brother boyfriend was or girlfriend was hot like me?

Andrew (15:01)

Oh, I was girlfriend.

Luke Burbank (15:02)

It's like. It's just like a mashup of, like, so many existing songs, but kind of not done particularly great. I'm just gonna keep playing everything because it's gonna cycle back into the bodies hitting the floor part of things. Good boy. Good job. By the way, I have a new theory too, which is I don't even think it's the Let the bodies hit the floor song. I think it's a hip hop guy who's doing a kind of a, like, let the bodies hit the floor, but maybe he's talking more about the dance floor. And it's sort of like a. My guess is that it's. It's sort of like a hip hop illusion to the Drowning pool song, if that makes any sense.

Andrew (16:03)

Yeah.

Luke Burbank (16:03)

So it's not even the. Like, it's not even the drowning pool song. It's like a hip hop song that's kind of borrowing the concept from drowning Pool. And then that is being chopped, screwed, mashed, and God knows what else is being done to it. And that it's being put under like an animal. Like an animal rescue video.

Andrew (16:23)

That's what's. You know, I brought this up the other day, and then I never did my research. I never studied it out, but I

Luke Burbank (16:28)

told you that that's all you have to do.

Andrew (16:30)

There was a commercial running a few days ago, heavy rotation, during a Mariners game for the video game, the baseball video game called MLB the Show.

Luke Burbank (16:39)

Oh, you thought that they're trying to use some Kanye or something.

Andrew (16:42)

I was thinking about my conversation with you later. I think that what it is is maybe some. Because usually they just use real songs in these commercials. They don't have them made for the commercials. And so I think there must be some hip hop song out there that maybe just borrows a verse from Kanye's song Monster and then goes on. Because there's another in the commercial. There's a second verse that is not. And I never went back. And let me see if this is the commercial here. I'm calling this up on the fly. This could be a. It's for mlb the show. But it could be a totally different cut of the commercial.

Luke Burbank (17:13)

Legend starts somewhere not in the spotlight but in the work. It starts.

Andrew (17:19)

No, I don't think the one that I. The one that I was talking about didn't have voiceover like that. It was just the song. It's almost like a music video. So that's a disappointment. I'll see if I can call that back.

Luke Burbank (17:29)

This is, I mean, but this is also, by the way, the. The world of hip hop, right, is that it is the most. Not only self referential but just, I guess referential that I can think of kind of style of music. And it's one of the things I actually kind of love about it. Like you can do. You can, you can. Did you ever have a dream that you could do so many things that you could be self referential to yourself? It's like I love the fact that hip hop, A lot of songs will have a line that's a direct.

Andrew (18:00)

Yeah.

Luke Burbank (18:00)

Reference to a line from a different hip hop song. And we're all in on it.

Andrew (18:04)

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Luke Burbank (18:05)

It's like I dig that. I dig that kind of style of I guess, music making. But it also leads to some confusion because it's like, is it, is it the song Monster that was that. They're re recording Ye's track because he's very, very, let's just say polarizing at this point. Or is it just a different song that either just kind of sounds like it or where that person is doing a line from Monster? Because we're all in on.

Andrew (18:27)

Why wouldn't you. Yeah, because, you know, we're. You and I are used to like clever references or maybe one line, but this was the whole. Not a whole verse, but like a stanza or something. And the thing about Monster is it's literally one of my favorite hip hop songs. It's so good. It's the one where they have like, I think like four or five different guest appearances. Nikki is on there, I think.

Luke Burbank (18:47)

Well, speaking of polarizing figures.

Andrew (18:50)

Oh, shit. Oh, I forgot. Yeah, she's told.

Luke Burbank (18:54)

I mean, I don't know. Look, she's also, I mean she's with

Andrew (18:57)

also Turning Point usa. She's on stage with them all the time.

Luke Burbank (19:00)

Yeah, she's trying to get like her husband and somebody else in her family pardoned her Husband is a registered sex offender. And I think that what she's trying to do is get on that pardon train for the people in her orbit who could use a presidential pardon.

Andrew (19:17)

I'm just sitting here thinking, like, oh, man. I was like, oh, I'm glad somebody is doing something with that line from Monster because that song is so good and I can't really enjoy it anymore because Kanye's problematic. I'm like, oh, yeah, and my favorite verse on it.

Luke Burbank (19:30)

He's not even the worst guy on the track right now.

Andrew (19:33)

Yeah, well, I don't.

Luke Burbank (19:34)

You know what guy on the track is Jay Z. And not for any personal reasons, but because Jay Z's rap on Monsters.

Andrew (19:40)

It is the weekly.

Luke Burbank (19:42)

We've talked about it.

Andrew (19:43)

It's definitely, certainly, certainly. Hey, can I. While we were talking about this Internet slop fest, though, I sent this to you and now don't miss the sloppage fest. I'm not trying to force it onto the show, but I did wonder if you wanted to talk about it at all. But did you see that Sora, that basically ChatGPT has shut down at Sora. Now, this is the app that you first hit Tipped me to Daddy. Oh, that is like a. You could create almost anything. You were supposed to use it to create your own likeness and then put yourself in funny situations. But of course, everybody just used it to, like, mock up celebrities and create all these false scenarios where you have Mr. Rogers hanging out with Tupac, and it was actually quite lovely. But so anyway, with Sora, you could just basically create alternate realities, put them out into the world, and people would not necessarily know that this is a fake. What was the team manager yelling at his team? Was it the Blue Jays or maybe the Dodgers? Some team manager screaming at his team on an airplane? It turned out to be totally fake.

Luke Burbank (20:45)

I think that was the Blue Jays, and it might have even been during that. That series against the Mariners or some other game. But, yeah, they'd figured out. Somebody had figured out that, like, people wanted to see athletes saying insane stuff in post game press conferences. So that was like a thing that burbled up a bunch and. Or managers being mad at their players or coaches being mad at their players. So that became kind of a genre of this Sora stuff. The other thing about Sora was it had that little watermark which was a little like, cloud with eyes. And then also the word sora, which was supposed to be like an indication that, like, hey, this is AI. This isn't real. It's a jib jab but people very quickly learned how to cut around the watermark. And it was very subtle too. So you had to be like really staring at this thing to notice it. You could very easily just be scrolling through and not note the. The watermark and really think you were seeing something real. Now I heard that they were closing it down. I really like this guy named Dan Harumi. He's a. I don't even know what he is. He's just sort of like a pop philosopher guy.

Andrew (21:50)

I thought he was. I thought he was a goose, but he turned out to be a crow. Sorry. I thought he was a duck.

Luke Burbank (21:58)

My handsome hubby thought he. He grabbed a duck out of. But he said that this was his theory of why Sora got shut down. Because basically what he was saying was Sam Altman, right? Because Sora was a open AI thing. ChatGPT. Excuse me. And that is. That. That's Sam Altman, right?

Andrew (22:19)

Yeah, I know. The only reason I know is when I was reading this story, it turns out like the very first thing everybody did with the app was mock up Sam Altman using the app, right?

Luke Burbank (22:30)

So this was Dan Harumi's theory was that Sam Altman and his team basically released Sora because they thought it was going to be this kind of cool creative thing that like, basically smart, interesting people were going to use to do smart, interesting stuff. And that really what it turned into was just slop, and he didn't really love that. And because Sam Altman wants OpenAI and ChatGPT to kind of be sort of the thing that runs everything but behind the scenes, eventually they didn't want it to just be basically like the not. His theory was that the wrong kind of people were embracing Sora and making dumb stuff with it. They just didn't really want that to be what it was for. Now, that doesn't seem to me like a. I don't know. Again, I really like this Dan Harumi guy. He has a really good way of breaking down kind of large, weird concepts into things that I can sort of understand. Or at least I like his opinion on things. I don't know if I was totally compelled by that. What was the. What did the story say about what the explanation was that was given for why they shut this thing down?

Andrew (23:30)

It wasn't a strong explanation or not, and it didn't have that particular theory. But it also, I should make clear, didn't make it sound like this is a failure and is the direction that AI is going like the. The humans won. I don't think it's that. I think it's like for whatever reason, they. The article that I read was a straight up news story and it said that the company didn't give a reason for it. And it also just as a little bit of context here for folks. This is also the company that Disney apparently agreed to like put a whole bunch of money into and give them license to remix, you know, Disney characters and stuff. And people were really shocked by that news. I don't really care because I don't. I don't hold that as like, I don't hold Mickey Mouse as some sort of sacred God. I don't care.

Luke Burbank (24:14)

What about Steamboat Willie?

Andrew (24:16)

Steamboat Steamboat.

Luke Burbank (24:17)

You're more of a Steamboat Willie guy.

Andrew (24:18)

Keep your damn hands off of. Keep your damn digital bites off of Steamboat Willie. So it just sort of made it sound like the company decided to do this. But it's not a death knell for this kind of thing. It's like it'll come back in some other way and Disney is still like working with ChatGPT writ large in some way to continue to do these things. So it actually, what you said gives me more context of maybe why they decided to do it. I don't think think they gave a specific explanation. But again, I think that in some circles, some anti AI circles, you would read this article and say, sora, this scary AI thing that was confusing reality, it's folding under we've won. I don't think that that is the tone here. Like, let's face it, this is just.

Luke Burbank (25:01)

They voluntarily did this. This is not because the people united will never be divided. Hey, can I play you a little bit of this Dan Harumi thing? I kind of found it. And it just. He's better at explaining what he's saying than what me trying to sort of summarize it. No, I actually really do have Dan, that is that Andrew is. Is whatever that song is. Is that the new cat rolling of. Of tbtl? I don't know here. No, this is the real thing though. No joke.

Caller/Guest (Jack) (25:33)

The video generation app that was ruining the Internet. I think what you're seeing here is a reflection of the politics of AI and Silicon Valley. Because if you look at Sam Altman, this is a very typical liberal tech guy, very highly educated, you know, sophisticated. He was buddying up to Trump for a while, but that was really just a business thing. He knows that he needs government approval to grow his company. But if you look at OpenAI as a company, you look at the chat GPT interface, it is very sleek, minimal, thoughtfully designed. Look at the OpenAI website. It's very modern and sophisticated. That's who he was hoping to attract with these, with this product. That's what he was hoping SORA would become, a tool that was used by actually creative, artistic people, by other coastal liberal elites. And that's not what he got. Those people flatly rejected it because it's gross. What he got instead was the dumb guys. The guys who thought it would be funny if Tom Cruise fought Batman. He got AI Slop the same way. Trump is an Ivy League educated Manhattan billionaire. That's who he's actually seeking approval from the liberal elite. That's who he actually wants to like him. But he was rejected. What he got instead was maga, was the uneducated Kid Rock, Ted Nugent, guys he would never actually hang out with if he had a choice. And that's what Sam Altman saw. He saw the writing on the wall. Because the difference between Silicon Valley and politics and government is that OpenAI is not trying to become a consumer facing business. Their goal is not to sell more subscriptions. Their goal is to become infrastructure, to become the back end that runs everything in the world. And for that to happen, they need the support of smart people. He can't be the app for dumb guys. And that's what all of the SORA users don't understand, was that you were never supposed to be in this group.

Luke Burbank (28:16)

It's like, that's interesting, right? I mean, I don't know if he's right or not, but it's an interesting kind of theory of the case, I guess.

Andrew (28:23)

Yeah. And to tie it into the more broad sort of context of the White House and the state of America. I mean, it's a very. I mean, weirdly, it's a very. It's a hopeful theory in a certain sick way, I guess.

Luke Burbank (28:38)

You know, I was trying to summarize that same like little Dan Harumi thing for Becca the other day actually, after no Kings. Cause we were trying to kind of, we were trying to decide if like that stuff ever gets back to Trump like that there's millions of people in the streets. And I said, I think it does, because he does read the New York Times. That's the thing. Donald Trump, you know, he's a guy from Queens. He will drop everything to do an interview with the New York Times, regardless of the fact that he calls it the failing New York Times and et cetera, et cetera. Except when they say, do you want to talk to us? He says, absolutely. And how much time do you need? Because he, he wants the approval of the quote unquote elites. And so, and he's just never gotten it because he's a moron. And so he's, he's stuck hanging out with Ted Nugent, you know, the, what was Ted Nugent's nickname? The Motor City Madman.

Andrew (29:28)

Oh yeah.

Luke Burbank (29:28)

Hanging out with the Motor City Madman with that cat scratch fever. And, and so my theory was he, he, Donald Trump was aware that there were a lot of people protesting over the weekend because he does read the New York Times, even if he would like to act like he doesn't.

Andrew (29:43)

Yeah, that makes that, that, that makes sense. I guess we're just so used to the, like, when you think of these tech guys too, and Elon's, you know, like, Eli, if. What this guy. What's your guy's name? Harambe.

Luke Burbank (29:57)

Dan. I know. Harambee Dan. Harambe Dan Harumi.

Andrew (30:08)

I think I nailed that. You know, I guess if he's right about that, then Altman is like the anti Elon in a certain way because Elon is sort of the opposite. Like, Elon didn't care about the quality. He took something like in this case, Twitter just to like kind of compare social media platforms and like, was just like, how can we debase this as quickly as possible?

Luke Burbank (30:35)

Right, exactly. And yeah, it's, it, it's, it's. Look, I'm not here to stick up for tech billionaires, but with the rightward drift of so many of them, or maybe just the unmasking of so many of them as just being generally that way anyway. But now they feel like they can do it openly. Like there are probably still a couple of them that actually do still hold some amount of like, I guess you might call liberal values or just like, hey, you know, we should not just be plundering everything and making the world a worse place just because it'll make us more money. I mean, that is unfortunately the, the operating kind of premise for a lot of them, but maybe not all of them, including the folks at Anthropic. Right. That was the whole thing too, which is like Anthropic has really sort of tried to present itself as the kind of. They're the ones that do. Claude.

Andrew (31:25)

Oh, okay. I was. Yeah, sure.

Luke Burbank (31:28)

And, and, and you know, Anthropic's thing has been that they're trying to create. They're trying to be really open and transparent about the process of building all this AI and, and that they're trying to self regulate and they're trying to really kind of like, say we're being open about the things we don't know about what this thing will do and. And where it will go. And. And they have, you know, these big contracts with the. With the Department of Defense. And the problem was that the department, they. They said to the Department of Defense, we're not going to, like, help you build autonomous killer robots that are armed. Like, we don't feel like that's great to have out in the world. And because they were. Anthropic was setting some kind of guardrails for what they would and wouldn't do. That's when Hegseth and these yahoos tried to declare them basically an enemy of the state, a compromised company, as if they were like a Chinese company or something. And this is an attempt to kill Anthropic because they're basically. They're saying, department of Defense is saying anyone anywhere within the US Government. And by the way, any other companies, any private companies that contract with the US Government that use Anthropic, we will not work with you now. So this is just trying to completely and totally choke the blood supply to Anthropic because Anthropic said, maybe we don't have the. Maybe we don't turn over the autonomous killer robots to you guys.

Andrew (32:49)

Well, this is a party that's always truly believed in free market capitalism, Luke. And so that. That totally scammed. That you would use the entire.

Luke Burbank (32:58)

That the government. Because they wanted to. They wanted to operate.

Andrew (33:03)

Exactly. Yeah. No, I mean, the cool thing about the party and their platforms is they're just really consistent and they make sense. They're not just.

Luke Burbank (33:09)

You don't have to agree with them, Andrew.

Andrew (33:11)

Yeah, you.

Luke Burbank (33:12)

You don't have to agree with them, but you have to admit they're tremendously consistent.

Andrew (33:16)

Absolutely.

Luke Burbank (33:18)

We was hoping for some razzle dazzle. Razzle dazzle. That's right, man. Razzle dazzle. On your mark.

Andrew (33:24)

On your mark. Get set, get set now. Ready? Ready, go, everybody.

Luke Burbank (33:33)

We were put on an enemies list by the Department of Defense years ago, Andrew. Which is why our financial model had to shift dramatically away from all those DoD contracts into listener donation. We went from DoD contracts to DoD contracts of a different kind. Dazzling of donors.

Andrew (33:57)

We had DNR contracts, I think is what they called them, like, do not. Let's let survive.

Luke Burbank (34:04)

We actually also have a DNR on the show. A Do Not Resuscitate.

Andrew (34:07)

Yes. That's. What.

Luke Burbank (34:08)

If you find TBTL lying by the side of the road, just let it go.

Andrew (34:11)

Let it Find peace.

Luke Burbank (34:12)

That's right. Don't do a whole let the bodies hit the floor thing where you revive it and then film it and then turn it into content. We have dazzling donors around here. They are folks that are donating a dazzling amount of dough. And my goodness, are we ever lucky. Because, yes, it's a. It's a. It's crazy time out there in the podcasting world. And somehow this thing is happening 4,696 episodes in because of people like Ryan Young, who's in Richmond, California. Like, wait, Ryan Young? Like Carl Young, the philosopher? What are your thoughts, Ryan? What are your thoughts on the collective unconsciousness?

Andrew (34:52)

I think the joke here though is that Young is pretty easy to pronounce because it's spelled phonetically, whereas Carl Jung is not spelled phonetically.

Luke Burbank (35:00)

Yeah, you heard me pausing, trying to remember how you say Carl Jung.

Andrew (35:03)

I know. For a second I was like, wait, isn't it Jung? But no, of course, because it's Jungian. Right? Yeah.

Luke Burbank (35:08)

Jungian philosophy. Well, when I say that, I'm talking about Ryan Young.

Andrew (35:12)

I am, too.

Luke Burbank (35:13)

Youngian philosophy of supporting tbt.

Andrew (35:16)

Exactly. What is Ryan's philosophy, Luke?

Luke Burbank (35:18)

We're about to find out. Hey, Andrew, John and Luke. Wow. Okay. Wow. Okay.

Andrew (35:24)

It could be alphabetical in this case.

Luke Burbank (35:27)

Hey, Andrew, John and Luke, I just want to say thanks for all you do. It's so important for me. It can be hard to live with chronic bad feelings, but your constant consistently nice and thoughtful conversation is a true balm. It's like the drop says, life's a party. Rock your body.

Andrew (35:41)

It is like that. Yeah.

Luke Burbank (35:43)

Beyond my own selfish uses of tbtl, it's also been a fun bonding experience for me and my 8 year old, 5 Martin, who would be more than happy to play or discuss Minecraft with Andrew. See, Andrew, if you get back into playing Minecraft, you would actually be doing this for the good of the show.

Andrew (36:01)

There was a time Luke and I haven't played now in a while, but I kind of, you know, I get into. I think I've said this to you before and I think you understand that, like, I get obsessed with various things and they kind of go on cycles and I'll get obsessed with my VHS video journey and I'll just like really focus on that for months. Yeah, Digitizing old commercials and uploading them and then whatever. Photography, darts, and then Minecraft will kind of. I'll get obsessed with that for maybe a month or two during a year. And the last time that happened was a couple of months ago. And I wanted to show you something here on the screen that the listeners can't see. But look at all of the. Look at these well organized color coded cards.

Luke Burbank (36:45)

I have village Traders.

Andrew (36:47)

What does it say there? I can't even see. It says.

Luke Burbank (36:49)

Oh, the top part says village Traders.

Andrew (36:51)

It says village Traders. And then in various colors I found this whole village. And I don't usually mess around with villages, but you can trade with them. And so what I have. I can read it if you can't.

Luke Burbank (37:01)

No, I had to put on my glasses. It's so sad.

Andrew (37:04)

You can tell.

Luke Burbank (37:05)

Like I see fishermen and then string, coal, cleric.

Andrew (37:11)

Yeah. So what you're learning here is the things that these particular characters want and I can trade for. So fishermen are looking for string and coal.

Luke Burbank (37:21)

Oh, gotcha. Or the farmer's looking for what?

Andrew (37:24)

Potatoes. Potatoes, beetroot, wheat and carrots. And so if I have a bunch of those, if I grow those, I can trade those and get some emeralds. Let me see, do I have any other cards here? But as you can see, I have a whole deck of.

Luke Burbank (37:36)

Martin, are you writing this down?

Andrew (37:37)

Playing cards. This is all for Martin there. So you can see what I've been up to.

Luke Burbank (37:41)

I would say that for an eight year old it couldn't possibly get more relevant than two guys who have to put on their glasses to read each other's content over the riverside.

Andrew (37:51)

Call Martin, let me know. So, Ryan, pass this along to Martin. Martin, you have my email address, I'm sure. Andrewbtl.net Is it worth trading? The reason I wrote that down was that's the first time I was messing around with trading. I don't need emeralds for anything yet I get obsessed with it and I'm spending all this time trying to grow a bunch of carrots for these village farmers. And Luke, I say, to what end?

Luke Burbank (38:13)

I think we've been to what end? Also another subsidy for big farmers.

Andrew (38:19)

Well, that's another thing too. Although you're telling them to not grow carrots, the tariffs have really hurt the farmers. So I'm also trying to do my duty so I don't.

Luke Burbank (38:29)

Absolutely. Martin's got another recommendation for you, by the way. This is by way of Ryan's dazzling donor message. Andrew, you might also want to check out the wobbly guys game. Never heard of that.

Andrew (38:39)

Okay, good.

Luke Burbank (38:41)

I'll just wrap it up here since I'm still cringing about my overlong and over cute message from last year.

Andrew (38:47)

What?

Luke Burbank (38:47)

Ryan? The good news is he says, sorry again, guys. Though I still think Andrew and Luke should give the Grateful Dead a shot. Try listening to Wharf Rat, maybe. So, Ryan, the good news is I have no memory of that. Of you doing anything cringy last year. But it sounds like Ryan was trying to turn us onto the Grateful Dead.

Andrew (39:05)

Maybe that's what I'm getting from the context here as well. I don't know if it's better or worse. Neither one of us remember that. Hopefully.

Luke Burbank (39:12)

Well, better in Ryan's mind.

Andrew (39:13)

Yeah. But it also reminds me of, like, this might have been a situation where I was maybe gently teasing. This feels like the stank of a bad Andrew joke here. I probably said something gently teasing or intentionally gently that maybe stuck with Ryan. So if I said something that made you think that for an entire year you thought that your dazzling donor message was anything but delightful, my sincere apologies.

Luke Burbank (39:39)

But see, that's the thing, Andrew. And as a person who. I know that you have sort of intrusive thoughts at times or you remember conversations or things, and it gives you kind of that. That not great feeling. If Ryan was having that this year over us and his last message, Ryan, I officially liberate you from that because we have no idea what you're talking about.

Andrew (40:01)

Yeah, exactly.

Luke Burbank (40:02)

That's a good thing. So wouldn't you like that, Andrew, if. Like, if you'd had a conversation with someone years ago that you were still replaying in your mind and feeling a little bit embarrassed about, and if that person, if you were to talk to them were like, I have no idea what you're talking about, would that liberate you from the feeling?

Andrew (40:15)

Yeah.

Luke Burbank (40:16)

Yeah.

Andrew (40:16)

Yeah, in some ways. I mean, I actually think about that a lot sometimes. If I have one of those intrusive thoughts, and then I think, well, there's just no way that. Do you know what I've been fixating on lately? Admitting this, I guess because I can't go toe to toe with you on intellectual conversations about the world of AI. I have to just, like, dig into my embarrassing.

Luke Burbank (40:35)

All I have is repeating Dan Harambe.

Andrew (40:40)

I quit. What if I just quit in the middle of a show? I. I don't know why this has become an intrusive thought, Luke, but I will. Maybe because I've been cooking more lately and really enjoying ever since we got this new stove and oven up, or, you know, stove slash oven upstairs. Like, it's really brought back the joy of cooking for me. In fact, I'm working on a book called the Joy of Cooking. It's gonna be. It's gonna. I already know exactly what the COVID is going to look like.

Luke Burbank (41:06)

I bet you do. I can picture it.

Andrew (41:09)

I don't know. I've just really been enjoying it. But of course, I'm Andrew, so I can't enjoy anything. And so I'm assuming this is why it's slipping in. But I've been having these memories of when I was in Concord, New Hampshire. This would have been my third apartment, so I would have been there a while by this point. But I remember having a couple of my colleagues slash friends who were reporters, who were a little bit older than me and felt a little bit more worldly than me, having them over for dinner in my tiny little apartment. And I'm not ashamed of that apartment. It was like an old school New Englandy kind of apartment with even some, like, some exposed piping that I painted red in the kitchen that actually I thought looked kind of cool. I. I like this.

Luke Burbank (41:48)

The one where you put pee. You had put peas on the.

Andrew (41:50)

No, that one was a. That one I was embarrassed about with like all the. All the wood paneling and what have you. This was an apartment that. This was the one that I really liked. And in fact, like it open. My bedroom window opened up into an alleyway where it just looked at a brick wall with tons of pigeons. But I actually loved that because it made me feel like I lived in more of like a cartoon of a big city sort of thing I liked. Yeah. And it was like a walk up. I think I was on the second floor or third. Had a fire escape on the back where we had a keg for a keg party and stuff. It was actually, I have fond memories of this apartment. I was not embarrassed of the apartment itself, but I remember having. I know at least my friend Trish Anderton, who's a reporter and I think she's in New York City now. And I can't remember who else, but I had them over for dinner and I never cooked at all. I didn't grow up at all learning any kind of culinary skills. And I remember I made them a meal using my George Foreman, my tiny

Luke Burbank (42:41)

George Foreman crime stamp.

Andrew (42:44)

Somehow that has become like, maybe this will exorcise it. Maybe this will let that demon free. But for some reason, like, nothing bad happened that night and I never had bad feelings about it. Like, nobody said this isn't good over marinated chicken or whatever I serve them, but I just know it wasn't now. You know what I mean? And so for some reason, like, looking back at like these friends who, again, they were way younger than I Am now at the time. But back in the early to mid 2000s, I looked up to them. They were accomplished, very smart people. Like I say, more worldly. And I'm having them over for dinner, and then I'm slopping some, like, over marinated chicken breasts onto a tiny George Foreman where I have to cook them one at a time. For some reason that lately it just popped up out of nowhere.

Luke Burbank (43:35)

While you were cooking in your house.

Andrew (43:37)

Yeah. Probably 25 years down the line, suddenly I'm like, oh, my God. And suddenly I'm picturing that whole scene through Trish's eyes or Laura's eyes. I can't remember who the other person was there. The fact that I can't even remember the other person, yet somehow I'm mortified by this. It's sick. I have a sick mind.

Luke Burbank (43:55)

You're sick.

Andrew (43:56)

Sick.

Luke Burbank (43:58)

The funny part is that one. That is an intrusive thought that I can more relate to because you know how obsessed I am about, like, the experience of people coming into my little home environment and me wanting to, like, have every single thing so dialed in that then people think that I have value or something. You know, like, more so than something I've said in a conversation. The idea that I would have had a. Well, I've got one for you. I had. We were filming something. This was a CBS thing. We were filming. And we had the producer and the camera guy. The producer and the camera guy kind of knew each other from previous life. And so we were having a fun. After the shoot was over, we were right near where my boat was, in fact, the boat that we took to the Savage Moose. And I kind of wanted to show off the boat and kind of unwind. And so we got onto the boat. I was like, hey, come check out this boat just down the street. Because we were shooting in Ballard or something. Something. And like, I was like, hey, he wants to do a shot. You know, because it was four in the afternoon. So that's definitely what we should. Where we should start things. And I had some shot glasses in the boat, and I had some whiskey, and I poured shots for us. And I think people. The other guys, probably somewhat reluctantly took them. And I think it was the camera guy, David. The shot glass I handed him had chewed bubble gum in it. In the shot glass? In the shot glass.

Andrew (45:20)

So you handed him the glass before pouring it in?

Luke Burbank (45:23)

I poured it, but I must not have looked.

Andrew (45:25)

Oh, so you're handing him a shot glass with gum and liquor in it.

Luke Burbank (45:28)

It's a little bit It's a little bit blurry, maybe owing to the liquor. I don't know if I had. I don't, I don't. I. I don't know if I handed him the glass and he noticed it. If I had poured the whiskey. What I know was that I was. I either did or was about to give him a shot of whiskey that had ABC gum.

Andrew (45:45)

Oh, good.

Luke Burbank (45:46)

At the bottom of it. I mean, you can't. I can't think of something more gross. And here we are. It's this boat. It's pretty nice. It's like, you know, I've spent a lot of money kind of like fixing it up, and I'm kind of. I guess I'm sort of showing off or something, and then I just do something that's that sort of like, you know, just kind of gross. And I think about that all the time. And in fact, anytime, like. So this fellow David, he'll come up sometimes when I'm talking to this producer who I still work with all the time. And literally, if he mentions the name of this guy David, I'm immediately just a cold sweat of mortification about handing him that shot glass with chewed up gum in it.

Andrew (46:25)

Yeah, well, listen, you had one embarrassing experience on that boat, like, just.

Luke Burbank (46:33)

May I refer you, Andrew, to the TBTL greatest hits album Right Behind Me, located right behind Me, which does feature that boat story. Not the chewing gum, but the other boat story, among many other greatest hits. Back to Ryan's message. He says to sign off, fuck ice, and do what you can do to help protect your neighbors and power out. Could not agree more on all counts, Ryan, thank you for the support. Martin, thank you for tolerating this at 8 years old or however old you might be now, maybe even nine. But thanks for listening too, buddy. We appreciate you. Maestro, on your mark.

Andrew (47:09)

On your mark. Get set, get set now. Ready?

Luke Burbank (47:12)

Ready. It's Alicia Elliott in Sharon, Massachusetts.

Andrew (47:21)

Hi, Alicia. I had to yell because Massachusetts is further away than Seattle.

Luke Burbank (47:26)

Yeah, Sharon, Massachusetts, I don't think I've been through there. Although I've really. For having lived in the Northeast, I have. Massachusetts is a pretty big blind spot for me. I've been to Boston a few times, but. But I have not explored it. The highways and byways and back. I mean, I hear it's beautiful.

Andrew (47:45)

It is.

Luke Burbank (47:47)

I'm guessing Sharon, Massachusetts is quite lovely. We know it's lovely because Alicia's there. Alicia says, friendos, everything I know about Seattle, I know from tbtl. Well, Alicia, everything I know about Sharon, Massachusetts, I know from you.

Andrew (47:58)

That is true.

Luke Burbank (48:00)

So I was stoked to make my first pilgrimage last month. I packed my Junior Sluggers shirt and my no Mountain to tall hat, and I headed west on Alaska. Technically, I was going for a work conference. God, it would have been so unlikely, but so cool, Alicia, if you could have bumped into some 10 with your. Yeah, with your Junior Sluggers T shirt on. I arrived on the eve of the NFC championship. As someone who does not follow sportball, but does follow tbtl, I know more about the Seahawks than my hometown team. The hotel I was at was housing three groups. Me and my peers in school, fundraising, teen contestants in the cheer national championships. I bet you those folks were easily recognized for having ribbons in their hair and being crazily fit. And the LA Rams, who were also

Andrew (48:50)

wearing ribbons and are crazily fit.

Luke Burbank (48:52)

Yeah, exactly. Elevator rides were wild. A few proud nerds, a giggly cloud of rhinestones and hairspray, and one or two of the largest humans I've ever seen.

Andrew (49:03)

This is so cool.

Luke Burbank (49:05)

This is cool. I mean, I wonder what that hotel was. It must have been pretty decent if that's where they had the Rams stay. On my last night, I attended a meetup at a local brewery. It turns out it was across the street from sacred TBTL ground, the Eagles number one. I wonder if Alicia was at Cooper's.

Andrew (49:22)

I don't think so. I think Cooper's is closed down now, and it's. And I. But there is, like, a brewery across the street now. Like, literally across Lake City.

Luke Burbank (49:32)

So that thing that used to be a carpet place.

Andrew (49:34)

I don't know what it used to be, but it's an area now that is like a brewery, which is a hard word for me to say it. It's also got like a food truck or two outside of it as well. So it's kind of become like a little. Little place. Little vibe.

Luke Burbank (49:45)

I think that. That when I was growing up, I think the area you're describing, that's across. Is it Lake City way already at that point?

Andrew (49:52)

Yeah, that's like.

Luke Burbank (49:52)

That's across Lake City Way. When I was growing up, that building was a carpet place. And then eventually I think it became a motorcycle deal of some kind. But anyway, all that is to say Alicia was across the street from the Eagles. My colleagues were thoroughly confused when I yelped and pulled out my phone to take a picture such as the life of a ten. Love you, business boys. Power out. That's from Alicia. Did I ever tell you about the time that I was in an Elevator with Michael Vick. Andrew, I'm not sure.

Andrew (50:25)

I know that I was. When Alicia was telling that story, I was thinking, I know that you have of more experiences than I do where you're like sort of seeing athletes in person in situations like that.

Luke Burbank (50:35)

It was Pittsburgh and a lot of Pittsburgh references on the show recently. I was talking about the men's bathroom at the airport the other day. I was staying in a hotel in Pittsburgh. I think there was a public radio conference there. I think that's why I was there. I don't think it was a TV deal. And what was wild was. I think, I want to say, was Mike Vick a Pittsburgh Steeler for like a hot second. This is after the dog.

Andrew (51:00)

Oh, maybe after dog fighting. Yeah, maybe.

Luke Burbank (51:03)

And I think. I think that the Steelers used to have this thing. Yeah, he did play for the Steelers towards the end of his career. The Steelers, I think, used to have. Maybe they still do. They had this thing where even for a home game, they'd basically make all the players go stay in a hotel. It's actually probably not dumb. Let's. Let's keep the guys that play under control for this weekend and. But I had no idea that the Pittsburgh Steelers were staying in the hotel that I was staying in. And I just get in the elevator and there's just Michael Vick. And it was such a mind explosion because he was still very top of mind for folks, you know, not just because of his athletic ability, but because of the dog fighting stuff. And he actually went to jail and all of that. I was just like, I can't remember what I said to him. You know, I didn't think that was necessarily the time when I needed to speak truth to power to him and like, chastise him for the dog fighting, which, as I've mentioned on the show, as far as people in public seeing the error of their ways, it appears that he really did.

Andrew (52:05)

Yeah, I was about to say that. I wasn't sure if that was a hot take or not, but it was my vague memory that, like, he gave a. He seemed like somebody who went to jail, went to prison, I guess.

Luke Burbank (52:15)

Right.

Andrew (52:15)

And then. And came out and didn't seem to be just doing the lip service thing, but. And also did. Never got into any other issues at all, I don't think. And seemed to truly apologize and sort of realize the error of his ways.

Luke Burbank (52:29)

Yeah, I think the word on that. Yeah, the word on that. The aftermath of that was that he really was like. It really opened his eyes to how kind of Awful this was for the animals. And that he really did. He really did regret it and do a lot to try to right that wrong. So good for old. Good for old Mike, Vic, and good for old us that we've got dazzling donors helping us out to keep TBTL going. Thank you so much. We could not do this without you.

Andrew (52:59)

Hello and welcome to Top Story.

Luke Burbank (53:03)

More so than this Texas judge losing it on an IT worker, which I do want to play the tape for you at some point. Andrew, I just want to say this is not a conversation about baseball. This is a conversation about the people who are employed to try to make judgment calls about baseball. But Andrew, in watching the first however many games of the season so far, I think I will be surprised that's not true. I think this will be the last season where we have human beings trying to call balls and strikes behind the plate. I think we're always going to need umpires at the bases because I don't think they have a technology for figuring out safe or out. So I think you're going to need someone standing there. If somebody's sliding into home base, you need them to try to make a call. Now, that could still be reviewed, but you need somebody there saying, the guy got there or he didn't. But as far as the balls and strikes things, this is wild. Like, how many balls did the Yankees. I don't know how close you were recording some stuff.

Andrew (54:03)

So, yeah, watching this, I heard about this. I think it was five, though. I think they had five successful challenges. The New York Yankees did. Meaning in like they.

Luke Burbank (54:10)

The first two innings.

Andrew (54:11)

Yeah. Early in the game. That's what I had heard. Now, the thing about it is this. I watched other games earlier in the season. I mean, earlier in the season, we're only six games in. But like, when I was in Hawaii watching some games, it seemed the opposite. It seemed. And I don't mean just Mariners games. I mean, I was kind of following the buzz and I was watching various games on the MLB app and it started off the opposite. It was like. Like every single challenge was actually overturned. So, yeah. And so I think it's a little bit early to make sweeping generalizations about where this is landing. I feel like you watched a game last night. Maybe that was an extreme example of the umps being wrong. That sounds accusatory. Maybe you are right about this and I will gladly eat my words, but so far I haven't seen anything that seems as declarative.

Luke Burbank (55:01)

Well, here's the thing. Like. Well, here's what we Know the abs, which is. What is that? The automated ball strike.

Andrew (55:11)

Ball strike system. That would be abs.

Luke Burbank (55:13)

You know, these are the robot. This is this kind of like super duper duper calibrated kind of laser system.

Andrew (55:20)

It stands for anti Lock brake systems.

Luke Burbank (55:23)

Oh, yeah, yeah, sure. So this is basically the thing that, like, if you're watching a baseball game, it can tell every single pitch to, like, the most crazily detailed degree if the thing was a ball or a strike. But we still have these human beings that are standing behind the plate trying to call if it's a ball or a strike. And the reason that I say, regardless of how many of these are being overturned, it's just. They're just superfluous. Now. The umpire is superfluous calling balls and strikes because you know what is never wrong? The automatic braking system. Yeah, the ABS is never wrong. So all we're doing is standing around hoping that the human being gets it mostly right up until they don't. And then we just go to the actual official record. It could just all be the official record. Like, we don't. We don't need a layer of weirdness where. Because then the players. All the players also going, ah, do I want to use my challenge here or not? Do I want to tap the way they indicate as they tap the top of their helmet? Like. Like there's a whole strategy now. There's a thing about time limits. The new thing is now people are arguing over, did the person challenge it faster? Like the. The Mariners challenged one last night that they would have won, but the ump said that the guy had taken too long to do it, which I feel like is the ump's only small measure of control now is like, they. That's their new judgment call. Because the judgment call on the ball and strike is now out of their hands. But they can say, but you didn't. You didn't challenge it in time. But, like, what we're doing right now is we're just having these human beings give their best guess. And then when we think they got it wrong, if we have a challenge, we're just challenging it. And then we're finding out officially if it was a ball or a strike. Why are we going with the imprecise version of it for 90% of the game when it could just be the Precise version for 100% of the game? And that's the argument that I think that's. That's the reality of this situation that is emerging now.

Andrew (57:19)

I'm not disagreeing with any of that. But I will say, in its current state, I actually sort of find the challenge system like a new fun aspect of the game. Like, I was looking forward to it for the more basic appreciation of just accuracy because you're so angry at bad calls that can really swing a game or a series, you know?

Luke Burbank (57:43)

Yeah.

Andrew (57:43)

So I was looking forward to accountability. But these moments, I'm almost arguing that I kind of like the way it is now more than the way you're predicting it's going to go where there's no human call at all, because they do a really good job of checking it quickly. You know what I mean? I don't mean about, like, whether or not you challenged in time. I'm trying to remember who it was. There was. Was it. The Cubs manager actually got ejected from a game because the umpire said that his guy didn't call the challenge quickly enough. And so then he comes out and he's arguing.

Luke Burbank (58:20)

Are you thinking of the Twins guy?

Andrew (58:22)

Yeah, it was the Twins guy. Yeah.

Luke Burbank (58:24)

And what happened was the Twins manager was wrong. The Twins manager was angry because a pitch against his team was overturned. And he was trying to make the argument that. That they didn't get the challenge and in time. But he was looking at the pitcher and the catcher was. Who made the challenge.

Andrew (58:38)

I see. That's right. Okay.

Luke Burbank (58:39)

The manager was looking in the wrong direction and didn't realize that the catch had tapped me.

Andrew (58:44)

Okay. Thank you, actually, for the clarification on that. I. I did remember that he was wrong. I didn't realize that he was looking at the wrong guy. That. But that's theory. But anyway, putting that. Just putting that aside for a second. They do such a good job of. After a challenge, after somebody calls a challenge, hey, that was called a ball. I think it was a strike. So many challenges that they can show it almost immediately. There's not. It's not slowing down the game where people are, like, shuffling their feet on the field while they go to New York and people are looking at

Luke Burbank (59:11)

the

Andrew (59:11)

results of the challenge are revealed so quickly. And those moments of. Those few seconds of waiting to see is really fun. It's almost like betting. You know what I mean? And so for me, and this is maybe bad baseball fandom, but I've sort of been enjoying it, not just because of the accuracy that it can bring if you have a successful challenge, but also it's just like a new little challenge in the game. It's almost like a little side quest.

Luke Burbank (59:39)

Yeah. But to me, I'm with you. Like when your team challenges and they win. It's a little adrenaline rush. It does feel cool. But it doesn't even need to be the case that any pitches are ever mischaracterized again. The umpire could have an earpiece that just dinged a bell for strike and buzzed a buzz for ball and they could just stand back there and they could just respond to the. Whether it was a ball or a strike, that could be almost instantaneous. You know that video that we see where the ball comes into the strike catches. It doesn't just. You get rid of that and you just make it a purely like the computer knows instantaneously if this was a ball or strike. And the person standing back there could just be basically. And this is where I think we'll end up with this. I think eventually it will just be the person back there is getting the information fed to them. If it's a ball or a strike, there will be no more arguments because we know that they're relying on the, on the information from the ABS system and then they're still there to call like people out at home or other things. Did the, did the ball foul tip off the guy's shoe or not catch your interference? Yeah, there's a bunch of stuff you still need them back there for. Because the other thing is the absolute humiliation of what is happening to these umpires is delicious. No, not for me because I mean depending on.

Andrew (61:03)

Let's such jerk.

Luke Burbank (61:05)

Well, if it's Angel Hernandez or CB Buckner.

Andrew (61:07)

Yes.

Luke Burbank (61:07)

Right. But for a lot of them.

Andrew (61:09)

Is angel still in the league? Angels out. No, that's. Buckner is right. Yeah.

Luke Burbank (61:13)

Oh, C.B. buckner had a all timer the other day. He. Well, first of all, when he was behind home plate, I think he got overturned like five or six times. They move him to first base for the next game, which is just the rotation was going to happen anyway. He. This isn't a robot call. There's a guy, I forget the teams, but a dude hits a ball, runs to first base. The throw from like the shortstop is really wide. The guy stomps right on the base, runs through the base. CB Buckner calls him out for not touching the base. The guy's like, huh? They challenge it. The guy's cleat is like smashes down the middle of first base in the most like it's not like close. It's not like he's. He nicked it. He's just running down the first baseline. He just stomps his foot into first base and keeps going. It's like CB Buckner was just having an AI hallucination. I mean, it is. It's a shocking missed call by him, which was thankfully overturned. But my point is that a lot of these umps, the. The fact that even the guy who was calling the game last night. I don't know his name necessarily. And again, I don't have. Baseball umpires are. They're part of the institution of baseball. And by that I would mean they're very overly sensitive about their authority being challenged. Generally speaking, I think umpires are like that. I think baseball has, at least in America, has too many weird traditional rules about, like, you don't disrespect me by throwing that pitch at that place or looking at me after you hit a home run or whatever. There's like a lot of just, like, ego and machismo and bullshit around the, like, unwritten rules of baseball, which I don't really like. And I think umpires are a big part of that. With them not ever being challenged or made to look foolish. Well, boy, are they ever getting their comeuppance. Think about this, like, in the years past, before the abs. And I'm sorry, this is just a baseball conversation now. In the years before the robot dumps, which would be every year in baseball's history up until this one, if you were in the dugout and the. Or how about this better example, if you're the batter and you're standing there and the ball comes in and it's low, but the guy, the umpire calls it a strike. The understood thing in baseball was you were allowed to gripe about it as long as you did not look at the umpire.

Andrew (63:18)

Yeah. Or use the word you. I think you were not allowed to gripe.

Luke Burbank (63:21)

Oh, really?

Andrew (63:21)

Yeah, there was something about like, oh, interesting. I heard somebody describe some, like, ex player or somebody saying that, like, you can swear, you can say F F it or F this or whatever, but you can't say F you or something like that. You know what I mean? You can't personalize it towards the.

Luke Burbank (63:37)

And you have to be so you. So basically the move for the hitters was they're standing there, the ball comes in, it goes in a place they don't think is a strike, the umpire calls it a strike. They're continuing to stare into the middle distance away from the umpire, but grumbling to the umpire. But as long as they don't look at the umpire and therefore draw attention, that was considered okay. But if they turned around and look at the umpire, they're getting ejected.

Andrew (63:57)

Right.

Luke Burbank (63:58)

So it was like a very sensitive environment where the being seen as in any way showing up the umpire was like a thing that could get you tossed and would get you tossed from the game. Game. And I always thought that was dumb. Well, let me tell you, the absolute defenestration of the egos of the home plate umpires in Major League Baseball is, is shocking to watch this season because you. But see, they are doing. Let's just say they're one of the umps that isn't like a, a showboat and a guy who's like a jerk. He's just trying to call the balls and strikes and he just keeps like, like, like he's calling it and then he gets challenged and he loses. And these guys like sit there and he's just like the, the. The hitter is challenging the pitch call. And then it's like the crowd cheers because you were wrong. Then you get back on your stance and the next one comes in and you call it. And then like the hitter is challenging the pitch again. It's like, it's just so humiliating for them. I don't know how many people are gonna wanna do the job at some point. I mean, there's always gonna be somebody.

Andrew (64:56)

Well, it's interesting. And again, it may be changing and maybe I'm emphasizing too much, like the first couple of games of the season that I was sort of just clicking through randomly, but I was hearing a lot of conversation about this that it seemed at first, again maybe the first few days or whatever of the season, we're just a week in, but that there was a lot of conversation that I heard, not online but during broadcasts, about how a lot of the calls were being confirmed and it was actually kind of good for the umps. But then conversations sort of turned towards, well, now that there's accountability, the umps seem to be like kind of rising to the challenge a little bit. That was like one conversation that I heard. I don't think that was during a Mariners broadcast.

Luke Burbank (65:40)

That might like they're getting better because they're getting shown up.

Andrew (65:43)

And I swear I heard that in a couple of different broadcasts. But if that's the case, why weren't they doing it all along?

Luke Burbank (65:50)

Oh, yes.

Andrew (65:50)

Like if there's any of. And again, this psychological. And also what I'm saying might. The data might not back up what I'm saying right now, but it was. And again, it was just people talking during a baseball game. So it's not like written on high, but like if there is any accuracy to that, it Burns me even more saying like, oh, well, you then you did have the ability, but you just never, it didn't matter because your word was law. Like, and, and you could be super, like you say, like, sort of. You could wield your power over these players. I've always disliked the toxicity of that umpire, that ump position.

Luke Burbank (66:28)

I do think, though, honestly, like, I don't, I can't get in the minds of, of, of an umpire. But literally, like, if I were the umpire's union or whatever, I would just say like, hey guys, next year, like to MLB next year, can we just get the balls and strikes in our ears and then we'll just say strike or ball and then no one will yell at us because they'll know that we're going off of what the official, you know, and by the way, put a sign out in center field, put up a green and a red and like literally the second that the ball comes in, it just goes green or red and then the umpire does strike or ball. So we know that the umpire is reflecting what the, what the abs is saying. And then, and then we can stop hating the umpires and, and we can hate them for other things maybe, which is like other stuff at the plate. But like, I'm not calling for the end of them having a job on the field. But like, it's, it's weird to me that we have this now. This weird. I, I think we're going to look back on this someday and go, wasn't that a weird couple of seasons where we, we could definitively know every single ball and strike, but instead we created this sort of, this kind of crazy system where you get to, you get to question a certain number of the mess ups, but you better be smart about which mess ups you or what you think are mess ups you, you challenge and you better do it in the right amount of time. And like, it's like we could just know, we could just know every single pitch and we're going with this middle road that has a lot more kind of, of room for error in it because you could be out of challenges if you, if you have like a, you know, if. And that's also, it's, it's. The whole challenging system is a very interesting kind of like, study of like the personalities of the players. You know, you've got the players who are just like, extremely like. My prediction is that Randy or Rosarena will have the most challenges of any Mariner by the end of the season just because of his general personality. Like, I just don't think he's a guy who. As we learned with the Cal Rawley thing, if he thinks he's right about something, he's gonna be pretty. Pretty quick to point that out. But the whole strategy of challenging and who does and who doesn't, and, like, I think the Mariners, for instance, need to challenge way more.

Andrew (68:31)

Can I ask you a question? Have. Have the Mariners changed the rule. Rule on that? It's embarrassing. I don't know. But at first, the. The rule for the Mariners and every team kind of was, you know, going into the season with their own rules. But the rule for the Mariners were at first was the only two people on the team who can challenge are the manager and the catcher. Do we have batters who are allowed to. Is it. Has Randy?

Luke Burbank (68:53)

I don't think the manager is allowed to challenge. I think the only people that can challenge are the hitter, the pitcher, or the catcher. I don't think that the bench can challenge.

Andrew (69:00)

Oh, okay. Well, there was something going in that maybe it was pitcher and catcher, but on the Mariners, they had. They started the season with a strict rule that nobody, like, basically, Cal is the only person who can challenge. Have we been seeing batters challenging now? Has Randy been challenging?

Luke Burbank (69:15)

Randy has challenged, I believe. I think there were. We. I think we had no challenges opening

Andrew (69:20)

day, which we didn't.

Luke Burbank (69:22)

Really bummed me out because we had one with Cal that would have been actually really useful. We. I don't know how we've. I would guess that we have on. We're on the low side of challenging from the hitting perspective. In other words, our batters at the plate. I do think Cal has challenged, you know, as the catcher, on a couple pitches that he thought were strikes. I don't know how successful we've been on that. The other thing I thought I heard was that catchers. Catchers have been pretty successful on. Catchers have been pretty successful on their challenges. Batters, I guess it's a little bit more like kind of 50.

Andrew (69:54)

50.

Luke Burbank (69:55)

I think it might be like, 60. 40 with the hitters being right versus the umpire being right on strikes. But my. My understanding is that the only three. Only three people can challenge, I. E. Tap their helmet, and it's the pitcher, the catcher, or the person who's hitting.

Andrew (70:10)

Yeah, that sounds right. And so I don't know why I'm a little bit confused as to what I was thinking before, because I thought that. I remember discussion going into the season that the Mariners were being especially strict with who can. Because what you just described is Right. Which is. Those are the three. According to Major League Baseball, according to these new rules, it can only be those three positions or, you know, situations. But I thought that the Mariners were even. Because I remember it was one of the. It was one of the Mariners broadcasters who was actually saying maybe after the first or maybe even after this first two games that what we might be seeing with this reluctance of. Of challenging, like, of Kel, like really in that first game, like, not challenging several things. Is this sort of like a reluctance by catchers, specifically. And we have a team that's run by a former catcher who are a little bit more old school about this stuff and are actually reluctant to use it because of big. Just because of being again, like thinking

Luke Burbank (71:08)

like that's it shows up the umpire.

Andrew (71:10)

Yeah. And it's like they're behind the plate together or whatever. And so I've been this old school. Cal and Dan, even if. And you're right, Dan can't call a challenge. But it still might be that mentality going in. And maybe they've loosened that up a little bit. I'm trying to remember what. What going into the season, what the Mariners kind of about this were.

Luke Burbank (71:30)

I'm sure that their conversation was, hey, we get two of these. So have situational awareness. In other words, if it's like two outs in the bottom of the third and no one's on and it's a one two count and you don't think it was a strike, don't challenge that because all you've done is potentially created a 2:1 count with two outs and nobody on. Like, that's the thing you got to teach these guys. Like, Victor Robles was up in with two people on, and he didn't challenge what was obviously a ball for a third strike. Now that's where he needs to understand two guys on. I think this was the game. We actually ended up winning the first game against the Yankees. But it's like, mostly what you got to do is make sure that these guys get it. Like, oh, there's runners on base. This doesn't happen all the time against the Yankee pitchers. Me getting struck out on this, on something that was not a strike. This is. This is a critical moment in the game. And therefore I am emboldened to try to challenge it. You know, that's really what you gotta. But I'm sure that at the beginning, Dan was just like, don't be challenging willy nilly out there and burning up our challenges for no reason. Which is also a useful piece of advice. But it's like. But also, don't be so shy about it that there's a critical moment with runners on base where we really need the sending to go differently. And you're like, you know, you're like keeping your challenge in your pocket.

Andrew (72:48)

Yeah. In fact, I disagreed with you on something, and I'm totally probably wrong about this. I will admit that you know more about this than I do, but there was. I don't know if it was last night's game because I watched like the last couple of innings. Sort of, though I was disagreeing with them because they were terrible. Oh, maybe it was the night before or something. I don't know. There was one point where Julio basically watched a first pitch strike that was like slightly out of the zone, but it was the first pitch of his at bat. And I thought it was you that said, oh, should have challenged that. And I was kind of like, well, well, maybe you don't. Unless it's a really egregious. Maybe you don't take a risk on a first pitch strike because the guys are often taking first pitch strikes anyway.

Luke Burbank (73:27)

Yeah, if I said that, then I don't stand by that. Like, I don't think a first pitch strike should be challenged, but I. But I definitely think a third strike.

Andrew (73:35)

Yeah, if.

Luke Burbank (73:36)

If. They're certainly depending on. And this is. Again, this is where the batters. I mean, they've already got a lot to think about up there, but this is where they have to be really, really savvy. Is like. Like, how many outs in the inning and are there people on base and who's hitting behind me? And da, da, da, da.

Andrew (73:51)

Like.

Luke Burbank (73:52)

And that's asking a lot. But ideally, you'll have batters that are. Understand the situational awareness of like, okay, this is. Now this is worth it.

Andrew (73:58)

Yeah.

Luke Burbank (73:58)

You know, versus. But I don't. It's. It'll be an evolving season.

Andrew (74:02)

Important thing is it's not a conversation about baseball.

Luke Burbank (74:05)

It's not a conversation.

Andrew (74:06)

Now, here's the truth of the matter. I actually. And I'm sorry, trying to look at how long we've been recording. And I know that you have more stuff to do today.

Luke Burbank (74:14)

I guess we've been going 75 minutes.

Andrew (74:16)

I am. I. I am interested in hearing what's going on with this ticket of yours. Do you want to save that for tomorrow?

Luke Burbank (74:23)

No, it's very simple. Although I think I took it back. I got a letter in the mail from. I feel like tickets shouldn't be from the court. Like, that's a Lot like I see in my mailbox, Multnomah Circuit, Multnomah County Circuit Court. I'm like, eek, that sounds intense. Should it just be called parking peoples or something?

Andrew (74:44)

Should we have a different parking folks?

Luke Burbank (74:45)

Folk. Parking Folk.

Andrew (74:46)

Yeah.

Luke Burbank (74:47)

Park and folk. Hey, you know, I got a letter from park and folk. Like, that's.

Andrew (74:52)

That's where maybe the P is backwards to give it a little.

Luke Burbank (74:56)

Yeah, maybe there's no G parking. It's just an apostrophe.

Andrew (75:00)

Yeah.

Luke Burbank (75:00)

Hey, you know, my friends, like, yeah, I don't like getting letters in the mail from the circuit court.

Andrew (75:06)

Yeah.

Luke Burbank (75:06)

It's not fun.

Andrew (75:07)

Heavy.

Luke Burbank (75:08)

And. And it was a letter that said, but I wish, you know, I wish I would not have taken it back inside with me. I had it out here yesterday that was in my pocket. Because what I will tell you is the end of the story is that they dismissed the ticket.

Andrew (75:22)

Oh, fantastic. Because I have been a little bit on edge ever since you were on the phone with somebody who sounded like they were very kind and trying to be very helpful, but they convinced you to, like, plead guilty, essentially.

Luke Burbank (75:36)

Essentially.

Andrew (75:36)

Even though. So in this case, this is just for folks who didn't hear the setup of the story. You were not just arguing this because you wanted to get out of the ticket. You had proof that you had digitally paid your fare at the curb parking that you were doing. It was all there. You had the receipt and you had the time of the ticket and you had paid. And so it's an open and shut case. But you were talking to somebody on the phone who said, yeah, I know you're innocent in this case, but the way it's going to work easiest is if you just admit to some wrongdoing. And I was like, no, don't ever do that.

Luke Burbank (76:12)

I did admit to the wrongdoing, and they did send me a letter, and it did say basically, like, you know, resolution of the case dismissed or something. But I will tell you, this is why I wish I had it right in front of me. It didn't say I'm sorry or we're sorry. And I feel like that would have been a nice touch. Like, they didn't. Like, this is some real, you know, true crime. This is some, like, you know, what was his name? This is the Manitowoc county making a murderer kind of stuff, where it's like, I want them to admit that there is. That this. This entire system is rotten and it goes all the way to the top. I want there to be accountability. I wanted the letter to Be more like, we don't know how this happened, but we are going to dedicate all of our resources to getting to the bottom of it.

Andrew (76:59)

Yes.

Luke Burbank (76:59)

And it will never happen again. And the reason, Andrew, is because I am. And you know this, knowing me, I can count on one hand the number of times I've actually been in the right.

Andrew (77:08)

Yeah.

Luke Burbank (77:08)

When in my life. Yes, in my life. Sam Miller, the comedian who's kind of a buddy of mine now has this funny joke. He's like, I really hate it when people accuse me of something I did. He's like, you know, he's like, yeah, I did it. I do not appreciate them thinking I'm the kind of person who would do the thing that I did Right. That's my general vibe. Like, I'm almost always trying to argue the sort of very edge of some kind of an argument as to why I was not responsible for that thing that should not have happened or why my car was not parked. Why, if you look at it from this angle, I shouldn't get a ticket for parking my car in the place where they said no parking. I'm always. I'm pretty much always in the wrong and trying to. To wriggle my way out of it. This is one of the very few times where it was cut and dried. I paid the thing. I was parked where I said I was. I had done everything right. And they just randomly issued me this ticket. And because of that, because it's so rare in my life, I really expected them to send me, I don't know, some kind of a fruit basket. Definitely. I wanted a photograph of the parking enforcement person crying, holding a newspaper, kind of a proof of life thing right

Andrew (78:17)

behind the plate, showing the ball way out of the zone.

Luke Burbank (78:22)

Exactly. I just, I wanted it to be more apologetic than it was. It kind of seemed like. And of course, this is just an auto generated thing to a thing that I guess I technically pleaded guilty on. It just kind of seemed like they were saying, the disposition of this is you don't owe us any money. As opposed to, like, we have wronged you profoundly and we will spend the rest of our lives trying to make it up to you. That's all I want from the multiple circuit court.

Andrew (78:45)

All we want is a declaration of innocence and maybe to declare and truth and reconciliation.

Luke Burbank (78:52)

Luke Burbank Day now the truth and reconciliation Committee.

Andrew (78:56)

That's smart, too. I. I could be wrong about this. I think Genevieve's. I think Genevieve's hearing for her, or I guess our ticket is. I think next Week. I want. I thought it was the fifth, but that would be a Sunday. It would be Easter Sunday on top of that. So I don't think she has a hearing on Easter Sunday. But. But yeah, I think I'll have some updates for you. Of course, our situation being that we got a ticket for driving in a bus lane when we were trying to retrieve Genevieve's phone, which she had left on the bus that we were chasing in our Volkswagen Golf. So anyway, I'll let you know all about that.

Luke Burbank (79:34)

And is she, as far as you understand it, she is going to. Is it an in person meeting or is it a zoom meeting?

Andrew (79:39)

I believe it's a zoom. It is a zoom, which I assumed it would be. I don't think anybody. It's worth anybody's time to. To be hauling.

Luke Burbank (79:46)

Yeah, definitely. Good point. Yeah. Well, okay, so we. We ran out of time on this, but tomorrow I do want to play this. This audio from this Texas courtroom because it actually gets into a lot of stuff. It gets into, like, it, relationships that. That we've all had, if we've had office jobs. It also gets into this kind of form of content that I, unfortunately, have been consuming a lot of, which is courtroom. Not even confrontations, just. Just these. A lot of these courtrooms are now, you know, it's. It's publicly streamed or there are cameras and. And there's a whole weird thing going on with judges, certain judges right now in courtrooms that I want to talk about with you tomorrow when you get to that.

Andrew (80:25)

All right, that sounds good to me. But for now, should we just ease on down the road?

Luke Burbank (80:30)

Probably. I've got. I gotta be down in. In Salem in a bit for this little event that I'm doing. So, yeah, I should probably go ahead and get towards that. All right, that's gonna do it for today's episode. But guess what? We're gonna be back here tomorrow with more imaginary radio for all of you, so please. And by the way, we're gonna have a boatload of blurs days probably because, oh, yeah, we skipped them last week. So if you. If last week was your blurs day or the blurs day of someone you love and you sent it in, we'll talk about that. We will honor them tomorrow. So. Yet another reason to join the show. All right, everybody, have a great rest of your Wednesday. Stay dry. If you're down here in Southern Washington or anywhere else where it's raining, go Mariners. And please remember, no mountain too tall.

Andrew (81:12)

And good luck to all. Power out.