#4731 I Hate It When You Call Me Big Poppa

Summary

TBTL: Too Beautiful To Live

Episode #4731 – "I Hate It When You Call Me Big Poppa"
Date: May 20, 2026
Hosts: Luke Burbank & Andrew Walsh

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, Luke and Andrew dig into the realities of urban living, the existential envy that comes from witnessing podcasting mega-success, and the low-level indignities of dog ownership in the city. They also reflect on personal ambitions, the meaning of “success” in podcasting, and share stories about neighborhood litter, local business legal drama, and listener emails about trust between humans and their pets.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Trials of Urban Dog Ownership

[05:08 – 16:10]

• Andrew recounts a harrowing experience: For the second time, his new puppy Lucy snatched a used condom off the street during their walk. This leads to an extended riff about the unique challenges of city life and caring for pets in sometimes rough urban environments.
  • Notable quote, Andrew ([05:03]):
    "I think puppyhood, or let’s say dog ownership, might have been the thing that has made me more conservative. Because I will tell you what. Yesterday, for the second time in my short time with Lucy the puppy, I have had to pull a used condom out of her mouth."
• Andrew discusses how this experience amplifies his frustration with littering and prompts reflection on the pros and cons of city living vs. the suburbs.
• Both hosts riff on the various detritus found in the neighborhood and Andrew’s need for “litter pinchers/pincers” to defend his property.

---

2. City vs. Suburb: The Push and Pull

[14:56 – 21:36]

• Urban density and lifestyle choices: Andrew and Veeves are excited about new multi-family housing being built in their neighborhood. They discuss ‘YIMBY’ (Yes In My Backyard) tendencies versus the temptation of “planned living” in the suburbs.
  • Luke ([16:10]):
    "Second condom. Pulling the second condom from your puppy's mouth is a real kind of come to Jesus moment, as it were, or can be."
• Andrew recounts conversations with friends about the hidden “hassle” and tradeoffs between the realities and ideals of both urban and suburban environments.

---

3. Podcast Envy and What Counts as "Success"

[21:38 – 42:23]

• Luke visits the studio of “My Favorite Murder”, shares his awe at their large, well-resourced production, and feels a bout of career envy.
  • Luke ([25:42]):
    "I was just blown away. And I was like, what are we doing wrong? Because these shows are not dissimilar. It’s two people… the history of that show is these two people… were just kind of fans of, or at least intrigued by, like, true crime stories… got together… to just kind of like do a podcast like you and I do. They had a couple of microphones, …and they were chatting it up. And here they are, extremely successful entertainers… And I was again highly impressed and also highly unsure of my and your and our life choices."
• Andrew’s perspective: He is less jealous of material or managerial success, more invested in meaningful work-life balance and listener community.
  • Andrew ([29:15]):
    "I would say I would be envious of numbers, of audience size. That’s always been a goal of mine… But when I think about being jealous … is it that I want a facility that is expensive with all the highest end technology… and that I have to manage these people and other podcasts and stuff, and it’s like, yeah, I don’t know that those are things that I actually want to be doing."
• Both hosts discuss whether more money, more fame, a bigger staff, or a larger audience would really make their lives better.

---

4. Fan Communities, Naming, and TBTL Culture

[26:11 – 31:56]

• Luke shares how “My Favorite Murder” fans came to be called “Murderinos” and compares it to the organic origin of TBTL’s “Tens”.
  • Luke ([27:04]):
    "They were talking a lot about how their fans are really a tight-knit community who really love each other and really look out for each other, et cetera. Just all this Tens stuff."
• A reflection on the warmth and peculiarities of TBTL’s own community.

---

5. Examining Ambition, Fame, and Self-Knowledge

[37:47 – 42:23]

• Andrew describes an encounter with another podcaster whose overt desire for “fame” was off-putting, leading him to reaffirm his own values about recognition and ambition.
  • Andrew ([40:26]):
    "He just stated… 'I want to be famous. I just want to be…' I found the raw honesty of that to be, in a certain way, refreshing and also gross as hell."
• A mutual realization: while some aspects of big-time podcasting are attractive, the administrative burdens and loss of creative autonomy are not.

---

6. Playful Bits: Drop Selection and TBTL Workflow

[44:01 – 47:31]

• The hosts poke fun at the TBTL tradition of using audio “drops” to intro each other, riffing about picking especially “mean” drops.
  • Andrew ([46:07]):
    "Never want them to think that I would be trying to cyberbully you to within an inch of your life."

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• Andrew on urban cleanup tools ([13:09]):
  "I bought one of those picker—one of those litter pinchers—you mentioned it yesterday on the show, and you called it a 'pince'."
• Luke on the reality of dog food and labs ([83:02]):
  "She would inhale, and I assume she still does inhale, her... cups of food... you’d put it in the thing, and she would eat it in under probably 20 seconds. And then just look at you like, okay, what’s next?"
• Both riffing about the “No Condom District” ([34:17]):
  Andrew: "I would love to live in the no condom district."
  Luke: "Maybe I just have a little house in Redmond that I visit on weekends…"

---

Dazzling Donor Segment

[47:21 – 61:53]

• Shoutouts to supporting listeners Thea Anderson (Sedro Woolley, WA) and Sam Clark (Berlin, Germany).
• Thea advertises her medical aesthetics clinic, notes her journey with facial paralysis, and offers 10% off for Tens at Monday Aesthetics in Burlington, WA.
• Sam Clark uses his platform to advocate for international good-neighborliness by supporting Palestine via the Red Crescent and shares a savory scone recipe.
• Recipe Highlight ([60:24]):
  "Two cups of self-rising flour, one cup of cream, half a cup of feta cheese, some spinach; bake at 400 degrees for 15 minutes. You can swap out the cheese and spinach for cheddar or bacon if you want."

---

Top Story: Legal Battle Over Barbershop Name

[62:37 – 77:24]

• Reported by Neil Vigdor in the New York Times: A bar in Omaha named “The Barbershop” faces a lawsuit from the Nebraska Barber Board, which claims the name and use of barber poles is misleading and a violation of state law.
  • Luke ([64:22]):
    "I can't believe that the Attorney General's department is involved in this. Barbering is an ancient and proud profession, and their symbols have long been reserved for their sole use for the benefit of public health and safety..."
• Both hosts agree: the suit is absurd and does not serve the public.
• Detour into the history and symbolism of barber poles.
• Extended visual analysis of the New York Times article photo becomes a jumping-off point for self-deprecating musings about what they’d wear if TBTL ever became that successful.

---

Listener Feedback & Email

[77:53 – 85:13]

• Voice memo from Ivy: Warns Andrew that lying to a dog (“I’ll be right back”) actually does create lasting trust issues—her own dog George still refuses to go downstairs first, years after a similar betrayal.
• Discussion of food-motivated vs. indifferent dogs, dog training, and pet treats.

---

Notable Segment Timestamps

• Urban dog ownership/litter rant: 05:08 – 16:10
• Suburb/urban trade-offs/YIMBY: 16:10 – 21:36
• Podcast envy & aspirations: 21:38 – 42:23
• Drop selection/production workflow joking: 44:01 – 47:31
• Dazzling Donors & Good Neighboring: 47:58 – 61:53
• Top Story - Barbershop lawsuit: 62:37 – 77:24
• Listener Email (Dog trust issues): 77:53 – 85:13

---

Memorable Quotes

• "That second condom... is a real kind of come to Jesus moment." – Luke, [16:10]
• "I want to be famous. I just want to be…" – Reciting another podcaster, Andrew, [40:26]
• "We was hoping for some razzle dazzle. Razzle dazzle. That’s right, man. Razzle dazzle." – Classic TBTL sign off, [47:10]

---

Tone & Banter

True to TBTL form: loose, playful, self-deprecating, and at times absurdly granular. Luke and Andrew nimbly shift from serious (urban decay, envy, ambition) to the ridiculous (barber pole symbolism, foot fashion in a NYT profile) and back again—making the episode both an existential musings hour and a fun ramble through the world of two close friends.

---

For First-Time Listeners

This episode is a classic slice of TBTL: stories from real life, lovingly granular pettiness (the barbershop lawsuit!), lots of community shout-outs, and open reflection on personal ambitions and anxieties. You’ll come for the dog ownership fails, stay for the musings on podcasting success, and leave with a savory scone recipe.

Transcript

[Andrew Walsh]

Whoa. Is this the new copier? It sure is, Dennis.

[Luke Burbank]

They installed it this morning. Can't believe corporate actually listened to our request.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yep.

[Luke Burbank]

I guess Christmas came early this year. This thing rules. It collates, staples, pages. No more stapling by hand.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, Santa should have wrapped it. What? The printer. Santa should have wrapped it when he gave it early. Oh, this is gonna make our lives so much easier. I know. This is so much nicer than the old copier. Yeah, I know. And Senna and all his elves must have worked so hard on it. And then they gave it to us early.

[Luke Burbank]

It's a very nice printer, Tracy. Just make sure no one copies their rear end, eh?

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, that naughty old elf must be one mean bastard to give us this so early.

[Luke Burbank]

What?

[Andrew Walsh]

Did I stutter?

[Luke Burbank]

Megan?

[Andrew Walsh]

Santa Claus.

[Luke Burbank]

Okay, it looks like the printer has

[Andrew Walsh]

gotten everyone a little too excited. Of course it did.

[Luke Burbank]

Everyone just go back to work.

[Andrew Walsh]

Tbtl. That's it. The radio. I'll go on the most popular program of the day. I assume that's still Don McNeil and his breakfast Club. Can I just say, I feel like I'm on MTV right now. They had been posting their stuff out on the Internet, and apparently they'd been met with virtually nothing but ridicule. This is about respect. This is about personal, personal space.

[Luke Burbank]

This is about the violation to the end.

[Andrew Walsh]

Got it? Here's the long and short of it. Someone has been touching my karaoke machine.

[Luke Burbank]

I stand corrected. This is compelling radio. Well, all right. Hello, good morning and welcome, everyone, to a Wednesday edition of tbtl, the show that just might be too beautiful to live. I love these guys.

[Andrew Walsh]

They make funny with their mouths.

[Luke Burbank]

My name is Luke Burbank. I am your host.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, my God. Your chlamydia is huge.

[Luke Burbank]

Coming to you once again from Los Angeles, California, where we are looking at an absolutely beautiful Wednesday as we arrive at episode 4731 in a collector series.

[Andrew Walsh]

Now you have a friend in the diamond business.

[Luke Burbank]

Much news to discuss, including. If you are in Nebraska and you are considering opening a bar, do not name it the barbershop.

[Andrew Walsh]

You've had three hairstyles. What's next for your career as you

[Luke Burbank]

will be sued by the barbershop people for calling your bar a misleading thing? I don't know. We're going to get into it, and we're going to talk to this guy, longest running co pro of the show, maybe best known for his depictions of the tall ships. There is a lot you don't know about my relationship with Mr. Andrew Walsh.

[Andrew Walsh]

He Taught me how to fish, skip stones, whittle. He was like my best friend, you know, and my worst enemy.

[Luke Burbank]

We're going to push through the worst enemy stuff and say hello and good morning to him right now. Hey, buddy.

[Andrew Walsh]

Good morning, Luke. Would you like to start with a fraught topic today, but a story from my personal life that up until this very moment that I opened my mouth, I was not sure if I was going to share this. I thought this might be one of those things that I just sit on for a while and it comes up in conversation naturally. But we got to talk about something that's on the top of my mind right now. And you know how people blame several factors on turning you more conservative? Turning one more conservative, people will say, age might turn somebody a little bit more conservative. Money, wealth, you know, once you start to earn a little bit, suddenly you're like, oh, I don't know, maybe I should vote for the lower taxes candidate or whatever. Veeves and I had a little home ownership. We're like, hey, when we own a home, are we going to become NIMBYs? Are we gonna change our values because we're gonna get like, protective of our property or whatever? I'd like to say that the answer to that is no. By the way, we just found out that directly across the street from us, Caddy corner from us. Love that.

[Luke Burbank]

So not the guy who signed.

[Andrew Walsh]

No, not the jerk directly across the street. But literally, Caddy quarter from us has been a single family home for a long time. I don't know, the people who live there, it looked like kind of a larger family, just found out that they are tearing that down and building multifamily housing there. And we are excited about that.

[Luke Burbank]

We need.

[Andrew Walsh]

We want more people in the neighborhood. So luckily the home.

[Luke Burbank]

You're an abundance. You're an abundance guy.

[Andrew Walsh]

Sure. I think. I don't know exactly what that means, but sure. Like, I think that that's the movement

[Luke Burbank]

to create more housing. And the idea that progressive politics are. Would be better served if we deregulated things so that we could actually build. It's the Yimby movement.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yes. In my backyard. So anyway, all of that is to say I don't think that I have let any of these factors, my immense wealth, my home ownership, my age, your

[Luke Burbank]

love of urban density.

[Andrew Walsh]

Change who I am. Fundamentally. My values are the way I vote. But maybe the thing that really changes people.

[Luke Burbank]

Rap music.

[Andrew Walsh]

Rap music. Still think there's a place for rap music in my life.

[Luke Burbank]

It just doesn't sound like music to me, it's just talking.

[Andrew Walsh]

It's like talking to the beat. I think puppyhood, or let's say dog ownership, might have been the thing that has made me more conservative. Because I will tell you what. Yesterday, for the second time in my short time with Lucy the puppy, I have had to pull a used condom out of her mouth.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, gosh. So now you're against safe sex.

[Andrew Walsh]

And now I'm against safe sex. There is a lot of prostitution. When Lisa Lopez hears about this, there's a lot of prostitution in my neighborhood, as we have discussed. And that is a very, very fraught topic. And I think that a lot of the women who are in that position are victims themselves.

[Luke Burbank]

Yes.

[Andrew Walsh]

And I'm actually not even against prostitution. In a different scenario, that would be highly regulated and workers could be united and everything. There's a scenario. None of that has changed for me. But people have got to stop flinging their condoms all over outside of our yard or outside of our house all over the neighborhood. It happened, I think, this weekend. There must have been some real partying going on, and somebody realized that there's this one street directly. Like, literally, somebody must have been parking their car right outside of our house on the other side of those high hedges. Like, those hedges give us privacy, but they also give privacy to the people who are doing God knows what with their private parts. Yeah. In these cars. And then they're just dumping their mess and then driving away. And I usually just sort of try to kick them out of the way. I don't mess around with that. Even if I have gloves on. I'm like, that just traditionally has been a too far for me. Right. So the other day, though, so when I'm walking Lucy around the neighborhood, I got to be really careful. There's garbage in various places around the outskirts of the cemetery. Like, all kinds of things happen. We live right off of this main throughway, Aurora. And again, I'm very protective of my neighborhood. I don't like other people saying shit about it, and so I don't want to say shit about it either. But obviously, things could be definitely better for a lot of the people who are living here and the people who are passing through and living on the peripheries. But I will just say that maybe my, my, my take on littering has grown. Has grown even stronger because, like, it's really awful. I have to, like, always be alert to make sure she's not picking up any kind of gross thing in her mouth. And a couple of days ago, we had Gone for a walk. Everything had gone fine. I'm constantly looking out to make sure nothing bad goes in her mouth. And then we get my driveway, and all of a sudden we're home, and. And there's one dangling from her front. The front of her mouth. And I'm just like, Jesus. And so I pry. I don't. I'm. Luckily, I don't have to touch it. I can pry her mouth open and it drops. That was the first one. That was the first one a few days ago. And I was like, okay, that was awful. Somebody. If they want to put me down right now, now would be a great time to do it. And then.

[Luke Burbank]

No, it'd be a terrible time to put down. You don't want that to be your last thought.

[Andrew Walsh]

That's a good point. But, yeah, but when you're.

[Luke Burbank]

They should put you down right after Lucy has finished a walk without a condom in her mouth.

[Andrew Walsh]

Right after Lucy has walked, smiles at you.

[Luke Burbank]

The Mariner's bullpen actually holds up. And then that's when we just. That's when we uncut gem you. That's just a shot to the back of the head.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah. Luis Castillo just piggybacks me all the way up to heaven, so. So that last night was not his fault. But. But anyway, then what happened yesterday was I took Lucy for probably the longest walk we had been on yet. We had gone, like, down the block all the way. All the way around the cemetery. Like the. A longer route than we had done before, you know, little. She can go on longer and longer walks, but, you know, she does get a little bit tired and a little bit ornery near the end, so. Trying to keep an eye on things, but I am like a hawk as I'm walking around certain roads that I just know are just like, you know, there's all kinds of stuff. I haven't seen any needles, but that would scare the hell out of me if she were to go after something like that.

[Luke Burbank]

And I am now, once she starts using intravenously, it's. It's dark road.

[Andrew Walsh]

I am now like less than half a. I'm like, basically kind of whatever, like less than half a block from my house or about a half a block from my house, about to cross my street, come into the driveway, say hello to the contractor, and then, you know, put her in the front yard and go about my day or whatever. And we are so close to. We are so close to heaven. And all of a sudden, I've been so careful with what she's been like, sniffing or whatever. And then all of a sudden I. It's like. It's like a dream. I don't even know. Like, it's like I saw it and then it wasn't there. I don't know how. She was so quick. I don't know what it was, but all of a sudden I just knew. Even though I didn't see it in her mouth, I knew that she had one in her mouth. And it was fully in her mouth. I could not see it. And I'm like, open up, open up, open up. And she's not opening up. She's not opening up. And so what do I have to do? I have to dig in her mouth, pull that thing on the ground, pull it out, throw it on the ground, and you can then.

[Luke Burbank]

Presumably you didn't have a glove on at that point.

[Andrew Walsh]

No, I didn't, because I'm not at home. You know, I'm not taking gloves with me everywhere. But that might change. I might have to start taking rubber gloves with me. Like, honestly, like latex gloves or something in my pocket because this was awful. This was terrible. I also don't know, though, in the moment that I would care to try to put on a latex glove. Like, you're just trying to get it out of her mouth. Like, that's God knows. Just God knows. She's going to get her final start wearing them, by the way.

[Luke Burbank]

24 7.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, exactly. So I have to dig in her mouth, pull it out, and then I am free. I'm like, let's go, let's go, let's go. And we are. And I. So I run in my driveway. The contractor is there. I have not even said hello to him because he didn't get. He didn't get to the house until I was already out on the walk. This is yesterday afternoon. And I'm just like. And you know, he wants to play with Lucy. He wants to say hello to me. He's a very, very gregarious guy. And for the first time ever in our relationship, I am steaming. He can probably see steam coming out of my ears. And I yell, we don't have time. We don't have time. And I just run by him, and he's looking at me like I'm crazy. And I just said I had a. Pull a f ing condom out of her effing mouth or whatever. And he's like. And I just hear him yell after me as I'm running inside. He's like, I'm so sorry, buddy. Like, the most earnest. I'm so sorry, buddy. I've ever heard. And I'm just holding my hand out, right? The one that I had, that had to do the surgery, I. I'm holding it out in front of me, and I've got her on the leash, and I hook her up on her lead outside as fast as possible in the front yard. And I go in and I just. We're joking the other day about, for some reason, putting you in one of those chemical shower things where you pull the chain and the whole thing just foam. Like, I am just. I didn't. I actually just scrubbed up really good in the kitchen sink. But I was just. And I couldn't get. And I just. I couldn't get it out of my head for like a. For like at least an hour or something. I just. I was just steaming. I'm sitting on the front porch now. I'm playing fetch with Lucy, you know, and, like, trying to, like, just regulate a little bit in the front yard. And then Genevieve came.

[Luke Burbank]

It's like throwing a diaphragm into the yard for her. Right. I'm gonna keep cycling.

[Andrew Walsh]

I know. How many. What else? What have we left?

[Luke Burbank]

Birth control.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah. Whenever there is a. Let's see, what's the one that bounces around inside, there's an iud. Iud, Absolutely. So anyway, you know, and I was then thinking about it later, it's like, listen, that was one quick moment. That was absolutely disgusting. She seems. Okay. I washed my hands. I couldn't. I, Like, I couldn't. It's like I knew my irony. I knew my hands were clean, but I couldn't get it out of my brain, you know?

[Luke Burbank]

Yes. I mean, that is one of the most disgusting things I could even think of, like touching a condom, a used

[Andrew Walsh]

condom that was on the ground outside in the neighborhood that has then gone into my dog's mouth and she won't. And just think about how dangerous that is. Not even just from a disease standpoint, but just having that rubber prophylactic and fully in her mouth, like, it's just wrong on so many. So many. So many different levels, and I'm just so sick of it. And that is why. That is why I'm. I'm voting for.

[Luke Burbank]

This is why you're against John's using birth control?

[Andrew Walsh]

That's right. No, I. I just need people to pick up their litter. I did at the store the other day because of the first one of this. I. Oh, did I already tell you this? I bought one of those picker. One of those litter pinchers you mentioned

[Luke Burbank]

it yesterday on the show and you called it a pince.

[Andrew Walsh]

Did I call it a pincer? Is that the right word?

[Luke Burbank]

I think I've been calling it in my mind like a pincher or something. But I think pincer is right. But yes, you mentioned it yesterday in passing. I thought that might have been for your pop up thing. That's just for like the neighborhood for.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh yeah, that was just for the neighborhood. And it must have been slightly. I guess a pincer is actually more of a tool. That's funny. But I guess it would be more of a pincer that I had.

[Luke Burbank]

No, I knew what you were talking about. That little thing on the end of a stick that grabs stuff, right?

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah. So I guess what I need to do is at least around my own house, like certainly the perimeter of our property. What I used to do for the non sexual related stuff is I just put on one of my work gloves, go around the house when I'm mowing the lawn and pick up, you know, all kind. You know, there'll be. People just drive by and throw litter out their windows. It's. It's terrible. And so I'll pick up the garbage, the cups, whatever it is, you know, what was in my yard the other day a few weeks ago. I couldn't believe it. I'd never seen anything like this before. And I consider myself a party man.

[Luke Burbank]

It was a huge 486.

[Andrew Walsh]

It was. It was a huge canister of fruit that I guess used to contain CO2 in it. But like, like when I was a. When I was a rebellious youth, we had crackers like that were whippets. But this was like a whole tank like the size of like a. Bigger than a football. But it wasn't one that would sit on the ground and like, you know, like a helium tank. It wasn't quite that big, but like, I don't know, it was like the size of. You could pick it up and throw it. But it was like a big heavy tank. Somebody was like doing whip it, threw it outside of our yard.

[Luke Burbank]

Did it have like a label on it that made it ostensibly about baking? Because, you know about that.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, well, about, about wh. Like whipped cream or whatever. Isn't that the whole thing? Yeah, yeah. I don't know.

[Luke Burbank]

Did it have like. Did it say like, you know, caramel something or other on it?

[Andrew Walsh]

You know, it didn't. I did take a photo of it. I think it may maybe had a little bit of a nod towards that or something. But as I was walking Lucy, this morning. So that. That second one happened yesterday. And I was just thinking about it, and I was like, I guess this is why people like the suburbs. Like, and don't get me wrong, there's a million reasons why I don't want to live in the suburbs either. Either. Like, I could. Yes, I could take a. I could dog on nicer walks. Like, that would be it. But also they would be, you know, I'd have to drive to go to any store. You know, I love my neighborhood and I do. And I love walking to the grocery store. I love walking to get my haircut. I love all those things. I'm not actually turning my back on urban living or. But I am. I was just like, I understand. I understand how people start to say, you know what? We can do better. We as a society can do better about this. And so anyway. And again, I'm not. I'm not coming. You know, again, I'm not. I set that up in a way so that you'd think that I am actually saying that I'm going to move out and maybe move to a nice suburb somewhere in a red state. That's not the case. But I really was like, I understand why people start fantasizing about maybe living in a place where they don't have to worry about prophylactics just being tossed all over the place right outside their house. I would say, yes.

[Luke Burbank]

Second condom. Pulling the second condom from your puppy's mouth is a real kind of come to Jesus moment, as it were, or can be. I've had moments like that too. Not. Not with pulling, you know, condoms out of my dog's mouth, but just being kind of in the version of America that is designed in certain ways to just take the edges off of life. Like, you know, going to, you know, one like a shopping. Not even a mall, per se, but just like a place, you know, those kind of like, I guess we'll call it a shopping area that will have like a mod pizza, a orange theory, a. What else would be there? Just like a bunch of stuff that you might, you know, that might be convenient to have in. In your area. And you park, there's ample parking and you can just walk to all of these things. And again, there are no loose condoms on the ground that you. That you see anyway. And you're just like. Or I have been like, oh, wow. Yeah, this. Okay, I see. This is planned living and the plan is working, you know.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

Again, not that that's what you're going towards, but I just know what you mean I've had those moments where I'm like, oh, this thing that I've eschewed in my life. I can see how it works for some people.

[Andrew Walsh]

Well, I was talking. This was off air, but I think it's okay to share this conversation. I was talking with our friend Hannah, Hannah Brooks Olson, with, with whom I host the Spotless podcast. And we were talking before the show the other day. And Hannah, very much so, is very much an urbanist and a public transportation advocate and walkable cities person and a density person, all of those things, and is way more well read and intelligent about these matters than I am. And I love talking to her about it. And we also see eye to eye. But we were talking about how, and I don't know if I mentioned this on the show, it's not super noteworthy, but I know I was telling you that my doctor, I finally found a doctor who I like a lot here in the city. But I found out that he's moving his practice. He's. It's complicated. He's staying within the same network or the same like kind of, you know, Swedish care facility or whatever, but he's moving buildings. He's going to be operating out of Redmond. Now, I assume that that's where he lives. I assume that that's where doctors live, places like Redmond, where it's nice. And so because I am pretty dedicated to the health care that I've been getting from him, I am going to start going out to Redmond for my appointments, which are like, I don't know, I have to traditionally been about three or four times a year. And I was telling Hannah about how I had to get my blood drawn as part of my ongoing care the other day and I went to my usual place in Ballard and I got the bad phlebotomist, the guy who I like see in the grocery store from time to time. And usually there's a woman at the front desk who knows that this guy is.

[Luke Burbank]

Can we rule him out as condom enthusiast number two?

[Andrew Walsh]

We cannot. We cannot. And I will leave it at that. But I, there's a woman who I who used to work at the front desk named Natalie, who knew that he did not do a good job for me several times and poked me a bunch and almost had me pass out one time or made me pass out one time or whatever. And so she always would sort of have my back. She'd be like, oh, I'll take care of you. Natalie was the best. But I went in there the other day and it wasn't Natalie and it was somebody new at the front desk. And that person was not like at all. Like, she wasn't giving off the vibe of somebody who wanted to be especially accommodating. If I tried to speak in code in some way of saying, like, I don't want the trolley phlebotomist who pokes me up to much. So I'm just like, if I get the, if I get the bad phlebotomist, I get the bad phlebotomist. And I go in there and he was, I actually said to him, I said, you know, I see you at the grocery store from time to time. The Holman. You go to the Holman Road qfc. He just said, yes. I was like, okay, take my blood. That was it. That was the end of the conversation. Yeah, he is awful. So anyway, all of that is to say I'm talking to Hannah. I'm like, well, you know, I'm going to be going to see my doctor over in Redmond now, so I assume that I'll maybe just get my labs done over at Redmond as well. And they probably have the best phlebotomists. And she's like, hell yeah, they do. We got in this whole conversation about how like if you want to go to a drugstore, like an actual CVS that doesn't for some reason have a big crater in the middle of it with one leftover holiday toy squeaking in the middle of it, like, probably Redmond is the place to go for that. You know, we just had this conversation about how like we could just take little trips over to Redmond and just to feel green grass from time to time. Yes.

[Luke Burbank]

Occasionally I just huff the fumes of sort of planned living. And then the rich, well, or just probably not even the rich, honestly. I mean, some rich, some people who are just living, you know, paycheck to paycheck, but in Redmond, you know what I mean? Like, I guess that's a weird statement on sort of middle class America and the hollowing out of that, you know, like, there's probably a lot of people in Redmond who live in reasonably nice houses but are one missed paycheck away from not being able to pay their mortgage. I don't know why I'm deciding to.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, no, no, that is fair. I think it's because these and I love these and I are very much on the other end of the spectrum of we just don't. We. We do not like debt. So like, we don't buy you Know what I mean? We don't buy new cars and you're

[Luke Burbank]

like one payment thousand paychecks away.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yes. So, so. And that is. That's a sense of security for us too. So. You're absolutely right though, there. Yeah. Sometimes you can look at what looks like apparent wealth, but it also could be like, oops, you. You're too two pay cycles away, though, from being in trouble with the bank.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, top heavy.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

I think I'm feeling particularly financially vulnerable today, Andrew, because yesterday I went and I saw how the other half lives in the world of podcasting, and that is I went to the production facility of the network called Exactly Right, which mostly financially flows from the success of the show, My Favorite Murderer, My Favorite Murder rather, which is hosted by Georgia Hardstark and Karen Kilgariff, who I was interviewing for tv. They were absolutely lovely, as were all of the people who worked there. But Andrew, it was at some point this. This woman named Kate, who's one of the sort of senior level producers there, as we were walking around and I was just commenting on everything, she goes, it seems like you have real podcast envy. I was like, you don't know the half of it. Like, it is unbelievable. The production facility that they've created, the staff that they have, the snacks. I was just like, I was blown away. And I was like, what are we doing wrong? Because these shows are not dissimilar. It's two people. Oh, and by the way, the history of that show is these two people, these two comedians and television writers and producers, Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark, were just kind of fans of, or at least intrigued by, like, true crime stories. Things like, did you. Did you and Veeves watch the staircase? No, that dock, I think it was pretty big during the pandemic. It was about a guy, I think he might have been a doctor actually in like one of the Carolinas, maybe North Carolina, who had a wife who passed away. The initial thing was that she had fallen down the staircase. But when they looked into it, that was a pretty suspicious story. And then when they looked further into it, he had been in the military in Germany and had had a wife who had passed away in Germany at the bottom of a staircase. That seems like two. Maybe one of those things could happen in a lifetime. Two of them seems pretty suspicious. But so they were just. Georgia and Karen were into these kinds of shows and basically got together in Georgia's UN air conditioned apartment about maybe 10 or so years ago to just kind of like do a podcast. Like you and I do. They had a couple of microphones, they had some kind of recording device and they were chatting it up. And here they are, extremely successful entertainers who when they go on tour, they sell out 4,000 person arenas. And I was again highly impressed and also highly unsure of my and your and our life choices. How are we not as successful as these two?

[Andrew Walsh]

Well, let me ask you. This is a serious question. It actually piggybacks well off of. Wow, a lot of piggybacking on my mind today after yesterday's baseball game, I guess. But this piggybacks off our conversation. Well, because this is an earnest question and this is. I know where you and I are very, very different.

[Luke Burbank]

Stop.

[Andrew Walsh]

Do you get an email and I didn't this time. That wasn't me. Although it does remind me that I need to do that at some point. Start emailing you every two seconds. What are you jealous of? What do you want that they have? Because let me just set that up by saying, like you mentioned huge facility that they go into and a whole bunch of people and it's like, I don't. That's not a dream of mine to like have a huge company that I'm responsible for with. With a lot of people that I'm responsible for. I feel so lucky that I eat prophylactic talk aside that I had a morning where I woke up and took my dog for a walk and came into the basement. And I'm talking to you now while I watch her on a little screen here. And I don't know, this is great to me. And we have really loyal listeners. I'm not trying to put you against the listeners as we get ready to thank the dazzling donors, but I actually, I think people should be envious of us.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, I think what's clear is you're dragging me down because my chance is to live in Redmond and be one paycheck away from. My ambition is to have a production facility in Redmond that we can't pay for. And your dream is to live a simple, low carbon footprint life? No, that's a really good question. What was I jealous about? I think, well, they did have good snacks.

[Andrew Walsh]

They did have good snacks. Is that what you said?

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, they did. The snacks, the snacks were pretty great. I guess I was jealous, generally speaking, of the, I don't know, the success of the operation because of its similarity to our operation. In other words, there are shows, you know, I understand why cereal is popular and I'm not trying to make cereal with you. And we never that was never our ambition. I understand why, you know, Radiolab is popular. I understand why certain kinds of shows are popular. And those are shows that you and I have never tried to make and probably couldn't make. It's something about the fact that it started out with two people talking to two friends talking to each other. And. Whereas, I mean, yes, that was the other thing. And I was like, so their, their fans are called Murderinos. And I said, where'd that come from? They said, we did not pick that name. By the way. They. I like them so much. They were like, we hate the name of our show. Shouldn't. Like, it's like my favorite. Murder is a terrible name. It sounds like you like Murder. This is all stuff they're saying in the interview. They're like, when we started this, we didn't think anyone was listening. And I was like, relatable. Like, they were just like, all, like. So much about their show reminds me of tbtl, except for the fact that there is at this level that our show is not, although our show is. Is successful. We do this for our job, as we will remind everyone when we read the dazzling donor messages, as you mentioned. But like, they were talking about the fact that their, Their. Their fan group is called the Murderinos. And they were like, we didn't pick that name. Somebody in the Facebook page just started calling the people who liked the show Murderinos, because that's a Ned Flanders reference. He says that on the Simpsons. He says something, hey, Murderinos. And they were just like, yeah, we had no control of that. People just started using it. And then it became a thing. And they were talking a lot about how their fans are really a tight knit community who really love each other and really look out for each other, et cetera. Just all this Tens stuff. And then I had to, of course, go, well, my listeners, our listeners are called the Tens. And they were impressed or they pretended to be impressed, but it was so hard for me to like, not want to, like, keep pointing out that you and I do a podcast and I had just been recording it earlier and we have fans and they have nicknames, and it was, it put me in a weird place to be around all of this success of a thing that is very similar to what we do, but has. Has sort of achieved this level that, that, that is unlikely for us to achieve. And you're right. I don't know. I'm not saying. I'm not. Why did my phone just start playing a clip, Andrew, of a Chicago White Sox game. It's. It's weird because, yes, this is the level. I don't want to be managing anyone this morning. Like, so you're right, this is actually a good level of success for us. But there was just something about being there that was. It gave me a kind of a feeling of envy.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah. And so I, to be clear about what I'm saying, because I asked you that question and I didn't fully answer it myself, I would say I would be envious of numbers of audience size. Like, that's always been a goal of mine. Like, I love.

[Luke Burbank]

Which, by the way, they would not share with me.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, really? Oh, that's interesting. I. Yeah, I wonder.

[Luke Burbank]

It's all a fraud.

[Andrew Walsh]

I mean, we know that they. I mean, you can see, as you said, they're selling out 4,000 seat shows or whatever. I mean, they've been huge for so, so long. And I know that a lot of our listeners were Murderinos for a while. I know, like Uber Jen was a big, big fan of that show and some other folks I can think of as well. I think there's a lot of crossover for reasons that you say there are similarities if you're into this kind of programming. And I don't want to sound like I have zero ambition, that is not the case. But I do like to ask myself those questions about like, well, what do I want? And I do think that you and I do a show that I am. What's the opposite of shame that I am proud of that we do this. And I would like more people to be part of our community. You know what I mean? I've always said that I was disappointed that American public media didn't do more to promote what we were doing. I think we could have gotten more listeners. I still think we have opportunities to bring more listeners in and we work to do that. And I do think that's a laudable goal. And I love the fact that we have a very loyal audience who is also very generous with us. And I would like a bigger audience because I feel like I'd like to spread that generosity out a little bit more so it doesn't feel like a smaller number of people are doing so much financially to keep us afloat, which is how I feel sometimes. And so there are definitely things. And I would like to do maybe more live shows. Maybe it would be better to have more people in those seats. Maybe it wouldn't. I don't know. Does that improve the experience for the people who are in those seats? I don't know, but when I think about being jealous, because I'm not saying I wouldn't have had those feelings if I were there with you, Luke. And I'm not trying to kind of to talk down to the situation, but, like, I like to examine myself, like, well, what. What about this life would be better? Like, does it mean that they are more financially secure than us, or is all of the money going back into it? And is it also, like, a lot of, like, you know, debt? I mean, I don't know. That's their business, but, like, is it that I want a facility that is expensive with all the highest end technology, but I got to make sure that we're paying for that and that I have to manage these people and other podcasts and stuff, and it's like, yeah, I don't know that those are things that I actually want to be doing. So there are. I, I. It's not that I've totally given up on life or aspiration, but I like to really ask, like, is it just a feeling I'm having of a certain sense of status, or is there something actually about this life that I actually would prefer to be living?

[Luke Burbank]

It's funny that you would frame it that way, because I kept asking them when we were doing what's called the Walk and Talk, right, where we're just kind of wandering around the production building and talking about stuff, and I just kept saying, like, like, is this, like, kind of annoying or is it frustrating? Not frustrating. I kept saying, like, or kept asking, like, you got into this because you and your friend want to talk about true crime, and now you have a bunch of people to manage. Is that kind of, like, is that, you know, stressful? And they kept going, actually, we like that part, too. And I think they were being genuine. They were like, no, we were like. Because they both had worked in television production, particularly Karen Kilgariff was, I think, a senior producer on, like, the Ellen DeGeneres show and other things. And she was like, no, actually kind of like, I like that part of the business. And, you know, it's. It's been a learning curve. But I've, you know, anyway, they were, they seemed to actually enjoy that part of the. And the thing that they said was, we really like, because they have a network and bunch of shows that, that are, you know, sort of supported by the success of their podcast. And they were like, like, we really like trying to, you know, create a world in which these other podcasts and podcasters can have a, you know, a platform to do their thing and, and, you know, use the production facilities and have the support that we've created. So they actually sort of like that. But you're right. Even. Even I was like, huh, There does seem to be a level of stress that comes from being like podcast network executives, you know, And I kept asking about that, and they were like, no, actually, it's. It's actually, it's pretty good. It's.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

And you know what? One. One thing that I actually appreciated too, from Karen was they were doing. They were doing a. Like, I mean, the thing about being so popular is now they have like 30 different versions of. Of their show of my favorite murder, where they do, like, they, they go back and listen to old shows and then they comment on them and that's content, you know, that kind of thing. And they were doing that. We were filming it. They were listening to, like, their 100th episode or something, and they were like, this is when it all took off for us. This was them yesterday commenting on this particular episode. And they were like, yeah, this was amazing. This is when we realized this was kind of a thing. And Karen said, yeah, this is when I got my house out of foreclosure. I was like, damn, that's real talk.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, no, absolutely. And like, financial stability and even. Even straight up wealth. Like, I'm not. I don't want to make it sound like that's not something that I'm interested in. Like, would love to be. I would love to live in the no condom district. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, maybe I just have a little house in Redmond that I visit on weekends. No, like, you know, I mean, like, I love the idea. I love the idea of being like, fabulously wealthy. You know what I mean? And so if there was a path to that, I don't want to make it sound like I'm above that at all. Actually. I. I have fantasies that would blow your mind. But. But I do like to just sort of like pull out. Like, okay, well, what I would. I. What would I want to do. Do with that? And I actually really appreciate people who want to manage a bunch of people. I think there's a time when I would have wanted to do that, but that doesn't sound like a job maybe that I would. That I would want right now. You know what I mean? I don't doubt that they love it, but it's not something that would make me happier, I don't think.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, the irony is, I. I mean, listen, I don't. Are we in management in the. On the show. I guess technically the flowchart is. Maybe you and I are co owners of the business. I mean, try owners.

[Andrew Walsh]

I think I'm your boss. Your co owner and co boss. Right.

[Luke Burbank]

That's not the latest flowchart that I was looking at, but okay. But like, yeah, the irony is I want no part of managing people hassle responsibilities like that. Like I can barely do that with our three person organization that we work in. Yes. But there was just something about being there and seeing all of this. And again, it was something about the origin story of the show too. That was so I guess that's actually not that similar to tbtl. We were a radio show actually. In fact, TBTL had sort of a more a glossier start really than their podcast. You know, we were at a radio station with like staff and a producer and an engineer and we had interns. In fact, if anything, TBTL has gone downhill since its origins. Since

[Andrew Walsh]

it was probably around 20, if you track it, it was around 2012, I think. Then things started going. Probably falls off a cliff, by the way. Any. What year did I join the show? Any sense of that?

[Luke Burbank]

I'm assuming that 2012 is when you joined the show. That's what you mean.

[Andrew Walsh]

Absolutely. Was. I was best friend also co boss. That was from the. That was from our planning meeting when we were setting up the business. I don't know, Luke. You know, I just. I'm with you. I think that if I were around that too, I'd be like, oh, damn, what are we doing with our lives? I'm like, wait a second though. Like, you know what, what parts of that do. Would we actually want to do? Is kind of a good way of looking at it.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah. I think what it is also is that this is a successful podcast in that we do this for our job. We get paid to do this. John gets paid to work here, like. And so I'm. I'm not usually in the position where I think I'm trying to brag up TBTL to more successful podcasters, you know, because, you know people, we have friends that have podcasts. And most of the time if I'm talking to somebody who's doing a podcast, TBTL is actually kind of a big success story. And I'm usually trying to kind of low key it or try to keep, you know, keep my light under a bushel a little bit about how kind of well this has gone, actually. And then I found myself yesterday in the, in the rare moment where I'm talking to people for whom the rocket ship has absolutely achieved escape velocity in the success department.

[Andrew Walsh]

You know, when I was restating my thesis a moment ago, I was floundering around because there was something I wanted to tell you, and I couldn't remember what it was, and now I remember what it was. I. I think I can trace my feelings, as I'm trying to express them to you now, to a specific conversation that I had, I'm going to say, about at least five years ago. And I will redact the names, although these are folks that some people in our audience would know who have a podcast that I would say is, I'm going to guess, maybe a little more popular than ours in a niche community, but I could be wrong about that. Nobody's forthcoming with their numbers these days, but they were also part of a network, and this was a time when you and I were also part of a network, and they were part of a network, but a network that had a very, very popular flagship show. It wasn't their show, it was another show, but they worked with this other podcast. And I was talking to my buddies who host this other podcast, and really, it's my friend and his friend who host this podcast. I'm not really buddies with the other guy. And the other guy, he just stated, like, we're out having drinks or whatever. He's like, yeah, I want to be famous. I just want to be. I just want to be like his. He basically. And there was always something about his personality that I just did not jibe with. Not that there was anything wrong or that he did anything wrong, but once he sort of stated his goal, he's like, I just want to be famous. And I realized, oh, that's kind of how you interact with people, too. I got the impression from this guy who's a little bit short with his listeners. Honestly, I've seen him interact. I think he's somebody who has a really big ego but is waiting for his life to support the ego. Sort of. I don't know. I haven't ever stated it that way before. I'm just sort of working it out now. But that's how I describe this guy's personality. Like, he really wants people to look at him as a famous person. And I found the raw honesty of that to be, in a certain way, refreshing and also gross as hell. Like, I was like, ew. And it also made his personality click for me. And I was like, oh, yeah, you kind of got just this little chip on your shoulder and you just. You want fame like you want. You Want the. And I was like, yeah. And I'm really, I'm. I'm really not like that. You know what I mean? Like, there, there are things I want, there are things that would come with fame, which would be a shot in the arm of pride. You know when people come up to me at ball games and I'm holding a sausage and I'm outwardly rude to

[Luke Burbank]

them, asking about fish sandwich timing.

[Andrew Walsh]

Dan reached out to me by the way we were chatting yesterday.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, really?

[Andrew Walsh]

I'm glad he did not feel like I was. Was that I was rude to him because I did feel like I was caught off guard. But anyway. But no, like, I do love that. I love being out and about. Never every now and then, somebody being like, hey, I listen to your show. I love it. Like, how does that not feel good? You know what I mean? That's great. But it's also like, I don't need more of it. You know what I mean? I get a shot in the arm from that. But it's not something that I'm like, my life would be better if I had more of that. If I had more money, my life would be better. Certainly. I love money. I think that if there was some sort of path to that, but if my life was a lot more money but a lot more hassle soul to keep that, I'm going to say it. Cheddar Luke. I don't think I would make that trade. Like, I do think that I like a life balance and maybe that's just, maybe that's a flaw. Like, I'm sure there, you know, people in our audience describe themselves as being like a Luke or like an Andrew. And there's probably just like you, maybe you literally uber Luke, as I will call you, or Luke in this case, and all the Lukes in the audience. Maybe I just sound like a total. I probably just sound like. No, you're describing, like, I probably, but, but like, but I'm also just being honest and I'm kind of glad at least I kind of know my.

[Luke Burbank]

No, actually, I mean, what you're describing is I think a good way to be in life, which is to understand the. Or at least to ask yourself the question of like, what is the actual implications of this, this thing that I think I want, but what comes with that? And you're exactly right. Like, I wouldn't want any other responsibility that these two people have, Karen and Georgia have of running this, this, you know, 50 person company. That would not be fun for me at all. Like, I think what I would like, would be, it would be fun to, for us to announce a tour, like a multi city tour where we're playing these like, huge, you know, the Paramount Theater kind of places and selling them

[Andrew Walsh]

out and having support and having like the support staff to pull something like that off. That'd be cool.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, you know, that was actually part of it too. I was watching them, we were filming them recording, like I said, some of these kind of, kind of interstitials and things. And it's like their set is so cool. They have this like, amazing. It's basically a film set because the show now is also on Netflix, so their podcast is on Netflix. And they have. There was probably in the control room, there were six people. There was someone running the cameras, there was somebody doing the graphics, there was somebody talking to them. You know, the, the, the, the segment producer was talking to them down the line. There was like various other people with jobs that I didn't even fully understand. They sort of, they walked in, they sat down, someone handed them a script that I think had been, you know, written and edited and carefully gone over by smart, funny, interesting people. And, and they then, you know, they kind of were on script and off script and then they would make jokes to each other and the whole control room would erupt in laughter as they were joking around and being funny. And by the way, it was like, it was apparent why their show was so popular. Like, like, they're funny, interesting people, you know, but there was something about just like the amount of handling that was happening for them, like people just taking care of everything that was like. I was like, ooh, that's pretty nice. That's a, that's a real Cadillac service going on here, you know. And again, that's not my way of saying that, like, they're not still doing the work. There's a reason why this thing is successful. But, but you're right, I don't, I don't want, I don't even want to have our meeting this afternoon, that I have to have one meeting a week and I, I move it routinely. So yeah, definitely, I don't want, I don't want the downsides of that lifestyle. But I was impressed at the operation, that's for sure.

[Andrew Walsh]

Let me ask you this. Do you like the. See, I don't know if we've mentioned this aspect of your on the road scenario to the listeners yet, but because as you described in detail in the show yesterday, because you accidentally left your laptop behind before you hit the road to Los Angeles yesterday, You had to. You're operating with a sort of. Of a cheap, let's call it borrowed laptop right now.

[Luke Burbank]

I'm borrowing it from Jeff Bezos.

[Andrew Walsh]

Jeff Bezos. And a bunch of your, like, short intro audio drops didn't transfer with your computer for some reason. And so in the morning now, the last two days, I've helped you pick the drops from my audio file to set up the show. Now that's usually your purview, but, you know, I got a little glean of associate producer action on that as I'm. As I'm like kind of pulling audio. Audio for you and sending it to you. How did that make you feel? Does it make you feel a little bit like, oh, okay, I got. Okay. Andrew's like, kind of.

[Luke Burbank]

This would be the new. Kind of, the new system. Actually, I'd like. Andrew, I'm gonna need you to send me eight. Actually, I'm gonna need you to send me 15 drops in the morning that I can pick through and choose which five I'm gonna use.

[Andrew Walsh]

Okay. I like that. Here, here. This could be your intro for tomorrow when you introduce yourself. Candy for dinner. What about you? See? How do you like that? I'm. I'm.

[Luke Burbank]

I like it. Lot a lie.

[Andrew Walsh]

I'm looking for.

[Luke Burbank]

You know what I meant to say for dinner.

[Andrew Walsh]

What about you? Go ahead.

[Luke Burbank]

I meant to say yesterday that, like, the drop that I played for you seemed slightly mean spirited, but it was a drop that you had sent me and that's. That's why I played it.

[Andrew Walsh]

I know you're the one who wrote every.

[Luke Burbank]

Nope, not that one.

[Andrew Walsh]

That one. It was the big bald head. Big head. Big bald head. It was Driver. Adam Driver from Girls. I. I know, I know you wanted me to call that out at the beginning of the show. I know how uncomfortable you tr. So hard not to use like, kind of insulting style drops to introduce me on the show. But since I was picking my own drop yesterday, I said, you're using this one. And I know it kind of killed you to not let the audience in on that because you felt like a bully.

[Luke Burbank]

Never want them to think that I would be trying to cyberbully you with. To. To within an inch of your life.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, my God. Wait, hold on a second. Can we just do this for a second? I know we gotta thank the donors, but, like, what else do we have for like, just the most insulting.

[Luke Burbank]

Don't go dark.

[Andrew Walsh]

What? I'm trying to think of some of the. The, the most insulting things meanest could start this for. Let's See here. Oh, this is actually, this would be kind of nice, actually, I think.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, you must feel like a celebrity. A regular Ira Glass.

[Andrew Walsh]

That's kind of a nice one to introduce.

[Luke Burbank]

Do you have a drop about a guy who loves it when his dog eats condoms?

[Andrew Walsh]

Let me see if I can feel

[Luke Burbank]

like that would really take you where you.

[Andrew Walsh]

Let's get one thing straight. I'm the funny guy around here. Yeah. Anyway, we'll work on it. I, I guess I don't have as I don't have as many. Oh, here, here, here's how you're gonna. And joining me as always on the show is my. The longest running co bro of tbtl. His naivete will be his undoing, as it will be for each of us in turn. Mr. Andrew Walsh, welcome to the show. I'll try to find. I'll try to find the meanest goddamn drop for you to introduce me with the rest of the week.

[Luke Burbank]

We was hoping for some razzle dazzle. Razzle dazzle. That's right, man. Razzle dazzle.

[Andrew Walsh]

On your mark. On your mark. Get set, get set now. Ready, ready, Go everybody.

[Luke Burbank]

Razzle dazzle. Andrew, Speaking of highly successful podcasting, and I mean that semi non sarcastically, this thing is, this TBTL thing is a, is a real deal and I am proud of it. Even though I, I'm. I do get a little envious at times. I'm proud. This has been our job for so many years and is John's job and is a going concern. And it is a going concern thanks to our financial supporters, including today's first dazzling donor, which is Thea Anderson up there in the wolves. Cedro Woolley, Washington.

[Andrew Walsh]

It's close to your heart.

[Luke Burbank]

It really is. And it always will, will be. We love the wolves. Thea says hey dummies. To keep my accountant happy. Oh, accountant. But those, that, those my favorite murder people have a team of accountants like Thea to keep my accountant happy and my dazzling donation and advertised. Oh, I just got an email from Karen Kilgariff to keep my account happy and my dazzling donation and advertising. Right off I am forced to be a bit cringe and advertise my part time business and passion project.

[Andrew Walsh]

No way. That's not cringe. Use the space. This is why we're here.

[Luke Burbank]

Absolutely, yes. This is the opposite of cringe. This is, this is the whole point of this thing. Or at least it's a nice byproduct of the whole thing. I've previously told my story about becoming ill, which left me with almost fully Paralyzed in my face. My vanity eventually led me to the world of medical aesthetics and over time I can recognize myself again. Thea, that is awesome. Really happy to hear that. I welcome any tens to come see me in Burlington. That's really close to Cedar Woolley, by the way. Andrew, I know you're not a.

[Andrew Walsh]

So this is not Vermont. That would be a huge state.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah.

[Andrew Walsh]

Okay.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, that would be, I mean, almost

[Andrew Walsh]

an impossible, almost impractical. Almost.

[Luke Burbank]

Yes, almost. This is Burlington, Washington, which is very close to Sudra Woolley, home of the Burlington Tigers. I believe is the high school there. Please come. I welcome any tents to come see me my Burlington at my Burlington clinic Monday aesthetics and get 10% off any service I offer from basic skin care consults to injectables laser therapies. Think tattoo removal. Oh, I think about it all the time. Hair removal. I think about the opposite. I think about hair adding.

[Andrew Walsh]

You think about removing other people's hair and somehow implanting it into your.

[Luke Burbank]

That's. Oh God, I'd pay so much for that. Spider veins, face, neck treatments and particularly if you have an interest in providing more subtle. I have an interest in providing more subtle and regenerative treatment options for my patients. I'm a fully licensed nurse practitioner and I put safety above all else. You can find my contact [e-mail] that's Monday. And good luck spelling aesthetics. I can barely say it. Monday aesthetics.com Now, Luke, I just had a thought. Yes.

[Andrew Walsh]

This is just regarding hair. Right. And you have talked about how you have various things that you do to make sure that your hair, your head of hair looks as full as possible or whatever. We all know or I think a lot of people know my situation, which is like, you know, we're in the waning days of the hair empire. I used to have very thick, luxurious hair and it's less and less up there now. There should be. And I understand that this is something that I'd have to take up with God and so what are you going to do? But there should be a way air horn. That really was the saddest air horn, as I'm about to say. There should be a way for a man who is advanced balding as I am to donate the rest of his hair to another man who is. Or another person who is trying to keep more of a full head of hair. You know what I mean? Like, it's all over but the. What's the expression? It's all over but the singing.

[Luke Burbank]

All over but the crying.

[Andrew Walsh]

It's all over but the crying for me over here. So before it's all gone, don't you think there should be a way. And maybe it wouldn't match your hair, but there should be like a bank or something where I can say, you know what, take the rest of it and just help some other person who's trying to hang on more and has more to work with, you know?

[Luke Burbank]

Yes. It's called locks of.

[Andrew Walsh]

Locks of. Like, I got this.

[Luke Burbank]

Little locks of. I got this little horn that refuses have this little horn of hair on the front of my head that refuses to go away. But if I could donate this to a guy like Luke who's clinging to the side of the cliff on that Sunday little get together that I had with my family, it was really fun. And. And we took some pictures. And there was a picture that I took with Addie and she looked lovely, but like, man, direct sunlight on my head, I could just see. I zoomed in on the picture and I was like, oh, my gosh, dude, I need to double down on the topic or something. It's like, it's definitely, you know, for all of the kind of smoke and mirrors that I'm employing, it is. It is the case that I do not have. I have a very, very small amount of hair on top of my head that I'm carefully quaffing. And it mostly works like, it works if you see me in a television shoot or you saw me from, you know, across a football field or something. But, boy, that sunlight was telling. It was. It was absolutely exposing the farce that is my hairdo.

[Andrew Walsh]

What's the expression? Everybody's bald. You just can't tell from across the street. Is that what they say?

[Luke Burbank]

That is. That's what they say. And boy, did I ever realize that in that photo. Then I was kind of mad at Addie because we took multiple pictures and I was like, I bet you I looked less bald in some of them. But she, because, like, my sister took the pictures and Addie looked at them. She was like, I don't like these. And then we took more and I was like, I bet I look less bald than the other ones. Oh, yeah, this is why I'll never have a hit podcast, because my daughter is constantly undermining me in these photos, making me look as bald as possible. Anyway, anyway, if you need help in any of these departments when it comes to aesthetics, check out our friend Thea's spot in Burlington Monday, aesthetics.com and Thea, thank you so much for supporting the program.

[Andrew Walsh]

For real.

[Luke Burbank]

My stroke.

[Andrew Walsh]

On your mark. On your mark. Get set now. Ready?

[Luke Burbank]

Ready.

[Andrew Walsh]

Go.

[Luke Burbank]

Everybody rattle everybody. It's our buddy Sam Clark in Berlin, Germany.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, okay.

[Luke Burbank]

I thought it could be another two international supporters. And today we've got another one.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

Over there in Berlin.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah. Now it might be Berlin, New Hampshire, which would have also been by Burlington, Vermont.

[Luke Burbank]

Now look at Sam's pronouncer. Andrew, do you have this in front of you?

[Andrew Walsh]

I do. Am. Say am.

[Luke Burbank]

Is Sam just. Just spoofing us? Just messing with us?

[Andrew Walsh]

I think so.

[Luke Burbank]

Okay, I'm going to.

[Andrew Walsh]

With.

[Luke Burbank]

I'm sorry. That was my hair transplant doctor emailing me. I'm gonna. I'm gonna.

[Andrew Walsh]

Andrew's hair is Sam. Andrew just donated his hair. Good news, bad news situation. We have a hair donation. The bad news is it's Andrew's.

[Luke Burbank]

We have some graft v. Host disorder that we think is gonna be. I love the idea of them putting your hair into a cooler and meta

[Andrew Walsh]

backing it to me. Yeah, One of those. One of those coolers.

[Luke Burbank]

Somehow in this scenario, you've died, though. You've died and they've harvested your hair. I don't like that part of the scenario. Sam's in Berlin and says, another year, another dazzling adventure with the fellas. I want to spread a positive message about being a great neighbor internationally and locally. Internationally. I'd like to throw out a message to support the homies in Palestine via the Red Crescent. The Red Crescent, if I'm not mistaken, Andrew, is. That's the Red Cross, but in other. In countries, I mean, the crescent, I assume, is a sort of a reference to Islam. So the Red Cross. The Cross being the sort of Christian iconography and the Crescent being the Muslim iconography. Is that why it's the Red Crescent?

[Andrew Walsh]

It's my understanding of it, and you said it better than I would have because it's been a long time. But yeah, I believe so. They're like counterparts, right?

[Luke Burbank]

Yes, they are. The Red Crescent. And the website that Sam is pointing us towards is. Is Palestine RCS. So Red Crescent Society, maybe RCS Palestine. Rcs.org for the past decade, I've donated to skateboarding in Palestine, but over the past three years, it's been more important to send food. I see. So Sam has been supporting skaters over there in Palestine, but right now, food seems to be the primary concern locally. To be a good neighbor. Be a good neighbor. If there is a way to get out and help people in need in your neighborhood, do it. Even if it's going out at 4am to unload pallets at the local food bank. You meet people, you hear stories, you learn, and you grow. Lastly, Sam would like to share a savory scone recipe.

[Andrew Walsh]

I love the way that there's no need to transition between these topics for Sam.

[Luke Burbank]

We don't need Andrew to justify a savory.

[Andrew Walsh]

We do not. It's just like, lastly, a savory scone recipe.

[Luke Burbank]

Yes, it's always time for a savory scone recipe. Oh, by the way, I think I'm about to really turn a corner in my pizza making situation at my house when I get home. My brother in law, Josh was making pizza on Sunday with the outdoor pizza oven that they have. And of course, he is a restaurant owner and professional chef. Chef. And honestly, I enjoyed the party so much. But I also felt I saw trouble coming because everybody was like, this pizza is so amazing. Great job, Josh. Way to use the outdoor pizza oven. And I was like, you guys, no one except Josh can make pizza that tastes this good at their house. Like, it was the best pizza I've ever had probably in my life. And I was like, if people come over to my house and they're expecting this kind of a situation because I have a similar pizza oven to the one he does, they are going to be very disappointed. I took it as essentially an insult to me that Josh was so good at making pizza. But I realized what I've been doing. Well, this Josh helped me realize what I've been doing wrong is I've been not letting the pizza stone heat up enough. If you have a pizza oven and it has a, you know, has the kind of like pizza stone thing that's the base of the whole deal or the, you know, the whatever, the floor of the pizza oven, whatever you call it, you got to run the pizza oven for like 30 to 45 minutes so that that thing heats up. Because what was happening for me is I would make a pizza, I'd put the, you know, whole thing into the pizza oven and the cheese would cook really quickly because the fire was hot. But the pizza stone had not been preheated, so it was not delivering enough heat to the pizza. So I was basically getting kind of like burned on top pizza and not, I mean, it was cooked through. It wasn't like, like raw dough, but didn't have that kind of crunch that, you know, pizza dough, when it's made correctly or cooked correctly has. So now I know what I'm doing wrong. I need to heat the pizza stone up for about 30 to 45 minutes until it's about 500 degrees, and then I'm going to get a really good outcome.

[Andrew Walsh]

So were you not heating up the pizza stone at all ahead of time or just not enough?

[Luke Burbank]

Not enough. I was turning the pizza oven on. What I was misunderstanding was I saw the important heat source of the pizza oven being the flames. Because this thing is like, you know, it's hooked up to a propane tank and it's got this whole ring of fire, literally, in the most Johnny Cashian sense of the word. And I thought, oh, that's how the pizza cooks. The pizza cooks because there's this whole fire effect and that heats everything up. And it's like, that's what kind of cooks the cheese and stuff.

[Andrew Walsh]

Stuff.

[Luke Burbank]

But the base of the whole thing, the pizza stone, needs to be itself really, really warm. And it's one of those things. I think Josh said it was sort of like trying to drive a semi truck. It's kind of like it takes a while to get going, but then once it's going, it has a lot of momentum, a lot of heat momentum. So that had never occurred to me. I would turn the pizza oven on, and then, like, I'd come back with the thermometer five minutes later, and I would point at the flames and I'd be like, oh, it's 600 degrees degrees. It's really warm in there. But I had not heated the pizza stone up enough.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, I don't use a pizza stone, and I don't even have a pizza oven. But Genevieve does have a pizza stone that she uses in the regular oven sometimes. And I know that preheating the stone is a part of that. But I also know that one time I brought home a Papa Murphy's pizza, which is, you know, not homemade, not fancy, not anything that you would need a pizza stone for. And she thought, oh, well, this will level it up. If I use my pizza stone on this. Papa Murphy's. Papa Murphy's are not made for. Somehow it ruined the pizza. It got too hot. You know, that's not how those pizzas are prepared. So don't use your pizza stone on a Papa Murphy's.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, if you're making a savory scone and you want to level up, this is Sam's advice. Two cups of self rising flour, one cup of cream, a half a cup of feta cheese. Ooh, some spinach. God, that sounds so good. I'm so hungry right now. Two cups of self rising flour, one cup of cream, a half cup of feta Cheese and some spinach and you've got yourself. Bake it at 400 degrees. You can tell that I did not have the email fully in my screen. I thought that was just the end of the story. Some spinach.

[Andrew Walsh]

Eat with a spoon. Exactly.

[Luke Burbank]

Stir and eat. No, we bake this, everybody. You bake it at 400 degrees for 15 minutes. Then you swap out the cheese and spinach for cheddar or bacon if you want. So if you're, you know, if you're somebody who, like me, generally swerves on the bacon and things like that, you could do the feta cheese and the spinach. Or if you're somebody who enjoys the cheddar and bacon flavor of life. Swap in some cheddar and bacon again. Two cups of self rising flour, one cup of cream, half a cup of feta cheese, some spinach. Bake 400 degrees for 15 minutes and you can swap in the cheddar and the bacon if you so choose. Sam, thank you so much for the reminder that we should take care of our communities, both local and international. And for the savory scone recipe. We couldn't do this without you.

[Andrew Walsh]

Okay, do you want me to hit top story here? How are we doing?

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, I guess. Yeah. You want to do this barbershop thing?

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, that sounds good to me. Although I will admit to you, I don't know the last time you read it. I read it when I sent it a while back. Back.

[Luke Burbank]

I read it the other day. I think I'm pretty. I'm pretty read up on it. There was just like a couple of statements from the barber people that just were so ridiculous. I thought.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, from that. That. Yeah, exactly. But I also. Well, yeah, good. And I want to ask you about that. Unless you're totally spoofing. I want to ask you about that barber shop bar you sent me a photo of last night and.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, sure.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah. Okay. So here we go.

[Luke Burbank]

Sorry.

[Andrew Walsh]

Hello and welcome to Top Story.

[Luke Burbank]

All right, our top story comes to us by way of. Actually, Andrew, you sent this to me in the New York Times. An article by Neil Vigdor in the Times. Omaha bar is not a barbershop. The state barber board tells a bar named Barbershop. There's apparently a bar in Omaha that was previously known as the barber shop that has come under some sort of, I don't know, criticism, legal challenges from the Barber association of Nebraska, because I guess you can't call your establishment a barber shop unless barbers are working there and cutting hair. The thing is, the people I think it's a brother and sister who own this place. It's. This bar is in the building where their dad had a barbershop.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, it actually used to be a barbershop. The father passed away, I believe, and then they took over the business. And did they even run it as a barbershop? For a second, I don't even know. But then they're like, well, what we want to do is we want to run a bar in a restaurant. It looks a little. Is it like kind of quasi upscaling or not upscale Y. But it's not like a dive bar or something like that?

[Luke Burbank]

No, it's definitely not a dive bar.

[Andrew Walsh]

It's pretty nice. Yeah. And it looks like they probably have nice food and stuff and. And they call themselves the Barbershop. It's like an homage. Right? We've talked about that a lot on the show of people, like, saying, hey, this used to be the. I feel like Ballard has a lot of this. Right. This used to be the shipping district or whatever maritime area. So you'll give your bar some sort of a maritime theme or name or something as sort of an homage to what was there before. And they're doing the same thing with their bar, the Barbershop, which is even more personal because it was their dad's place.

[Luke Burbank]

Place. Yes. They seem to come by this very honestly. By the way, Nebraska's Attorney general is representing the barbershop board in this lawsuit. Great use of the Nebraska Attorney general's, I think, time and resources, don't you think? Like, you know, I don't know, voter suppression, the gutting of, you know, of various important, you know, laws and things that protect people. People. Let's not work on that. Let's make sure that. And again, no shade on barbers. But just like, I can't believe that the Attorney general's department is involved in this. Barbering is an ancient and proud profession, and their symbols have long been reserved for their sole use for the benefit of public health and safety. This is according to the lawsuit. The plaintiff has chosen to use these symbols in a knowingly deceptive fashion that violates Nebraska law and infringes on the barber board's trademark.

[Andrew Walsh]

It's so ridiculous.

[Luke Burbank]

It is so. I mean, what a bad look, by the way. And again, this is not even the. This is not the fault of the people who cut hair in Nebraska. But, like, it's just. I can't. I mean, I can't. Other than major league umpires, I can't see a lesson. Fun group of people than the barber Association. It has come to our attention that this business is marketing itself using the barbershop title, barber poles and images of barber poles, said Kenneth Allen, the director of the Barber Board. This letter is to inform you that such practices violate Nebraska law and invite you to amend the businesses advertising

[Andrew Walsh]

disingenuous. Nobody is confusing this place. Nobody is in there claiming that it's confusing. It is not confusing. Nobody is going into this place to get a haircut. On the off, off, off chance that this might happen once every five years. Somebody is new in town and they're driving by and they're like, you know what? I meant to get a hair. I'm here to cover a story for cbs and I meant to get a haircut before I came out here, and I didn't. And I forgot my. I forgot my laptop at home and I'm already in a bad place and I see this place. I' I need to get a quick haircut. I'll go in. You will? Immediately. First of all, if it's the afternoon, it's probably closed. It probably doesn't open until 4pm anyway. You know what I mean? Like, there are a million things that will happen before you sit down at the bar wondering why nobody's cutting your hair. Like, nobody is being confused by this.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah. Can you imagine, like, you're sitting in the bar for hours waiting for someone to approach you to cut your hair, and everyone's just having drinks and food and enjoying themselves, and you're just like

[Andrew Walsh]

this, going out of your mind.

[Luke Burbank]

I'm never going to another barber shop.

[Andrew Walsh]

You just leave screaming, worst barber shop ever.

[Luke Burbank]

I'm just growing my hair out like Will Forte in the Last man on Earth. I'm never, ever going to have my hair cut by a professional barber again because of how disappointed I am in my confusion. Yes. In what the nature of this business is. You know, it's funny, so is like, I don't even think that the Barbershop association of America is even really, like, in on this. I mean, they have to be. But there was a quote from Maria Scally Sheehan, the chief executive of the national association of the Barber Boards of America. She said in an interview on Wednesday that the organization supported the action of the Nebraska officials. Quote, it's about keeping the integrity of the profession alive, she said. End quote. Doesn't that seem like. I bet you anything they were like, really? Please, guys, don't, don't. You're doing too much. And they're like, but they have to they're like, well, we're on their side of things, so yeah, it's important to keep the integrity of the organization alive. Wait, I've, I've got to go change the, you know, lining in my underwear drawer now. Please stop talking to me about this because it is, it just makes. Again, it's not the fault of people who cut hair, but this just makes, makes barbers sound like such sticks in the mud.

[Andrew Walsh]

I have two questions regarding the photos in this New York Times article. And the top one I believe you see, are these the two owners? Yeah. Altman's brother and sister. Yeah, exactly, Brother and sister. In the top one, they're doing something. So they have a classic little, pretty small one, but a classic looking barber's pole with the blue, white and red stripes and it looks, looks like they're putting something around it. Are they covering up the pole in that top photo because of this lawsuit uncover.

[Luke Burbank]

Are they uncovering it?

[Andrew Walsh]

I wasn't sure if this was like a stock photo from back in the day when they were like making their big reveal like here's our barber pole or are they covering up the barber pole because it's one of those images that the state board says we have to cover this up because this, this is a sacred symbol that would confuse any passerby.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, because they've also changed the name, I think temporarily censored shop instead of barber shop because they can't call it barbershop. I mean, they're getting some mileage out of this.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean they're in the New York Times.

[Luke Burbank]

I think you're right. I think you're right. I think they're covering up. What is the story on that barber pole? Like how did that get started and what does that indicate? Feel like. I feel like we talked about this before. It seems like it, it's related somehow to what? Like a sort of the, like, I don't know, the, the, the, the, the chemicals, the disinfectant that you put the tools in or something like has something to do with like the fact that, you know, it's, it's clean and, and safe or something.

[Andrew Walsh]

How much do we want to trust at AI? Yeah, this, this rings a bell to me that we looked it up and the AI overview says, and by the way, this is something we should talk about, although it'll just lead us down the same path that we always go down. But I don't know if you heard that like Google has plans to completely change, like it will not give you links anymore at A certain point, they're basically into an AI chatbot that gives you information and keeps you in the universe. We will talk more about that, I'm sure, at another day. But the AI overview here from Google says the barber pole originated in the Middle ages when barbers functioned as barbersurgeons. I learned this from a very, very favorited SNL sketch in my family, one of those from the 70s or early 80s with Steve Martin where he's Theodork of York, medieval barber, and he's putting leeches on people and such. Anyway, it says performing surgeries, too. Extractions, bloodletting, that type of thing. The red stripes represent blood, the white symbolize clean bandages, and the pole itself is the staff patients gripped to make their veins bulge during procedures. That's according to AI overview. We should say here. The blue was added later primarily as a nod to patriotism. So great and fantastic. So, anyway, that's apparently what's going on there.

[Luke Burbank]

Interesting. Yeah, I mean, just again, they're getting mileage out of this. It's in the New York Times. They're calling themselves, you know, the Censored Whatever. But I mean, this is just. This is really silly. And this is a shock to me that the barber. This feels like you're, you know, you're in the Barber association or you run the Barber association of Nebraska. And let's be honest, there's not that much going on. There aren't that many, like, you know, examples of things that you need to come down on. And so I guess, you know, when. When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Like you're just like, like, oh, somebody's misusing the barber term. Meanwhile, I think at the end of the article, they point out that, like, this is not the case in other countries, including Australia, where there is a very popular bar. The drinking establishment in Omaha is not the first speakeasy to adopt such a moniker. In Sydney, Australia, the barber shop has been voted the country's best gin bar for four consecutive years. According to its website, it's hidden behind a working barber shop. If anything, the barbers should be encouraging this. So more people walk into barbershops thinking they're bars.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly.

[Luke Burbank]

You know what I mean? Like, like you want, like, build the brand, create some confusion. People love bars, people. Let's have someone wander into your place looking for a drink, and then, you

[Andrew Walsh]

know, maybe get a haircut while you're at it.

[Luke Burbank]

Give them a shave.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, second question about the photos, and I don't know if you have the actual Photos in front of you if you have a printout. But how cute are her shoes? In that second photo, this is the co owner. She's posing with her brother, the other co owner, and she's sitting in like a barber chair. That was sort of a decoration in it. Great shoes, right? Very cute. Is that like, are they like kind of red Mary Janes or something like that?

[Luke Burbank]

That kind of. I think that, yeah, there's some. Somewhere between a Mary Jane and a ballet flat.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

But Andrew, pretty cute. Here's what's strange. You've zoomed in on something, by the way. We now know that you are a foot guy. Is she wearing. Because you're noticing this and I hadn't. Is she wearing two different shoes?

[Andrew Walsh]

No, I don't think so. I think one is sort of tucked behind the.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, okay. Yeah, got you. It's. It's the, it's an illusion from the barber chair that she's sitting in. I was, sorry, I was. I thought like that would be insane if she's getting a photo in the New York Times and she's wearing two different shoes.

[Andrew Walsh]

But one of the reasons I was thinking about this though, and this is very off topic, they are very cute shoes and they, they caught my attention because they're red and they sort of stand out and they also look good against the red of that chair. I don't have a foot thing. But it then got me thinking about the brother, the other co owner, who's kind of standing behind her. And this is very much a posed New York Times photo. Right? Like they're posing for it.

[Luke Burbank]

Yes.

[Andrew Walsh]

And it's a great photo. I love it. But it got me thinking, like going back to the conversation that you were having earlier about if we were a more successful podcast and the New York Times wanted to come and interview us. Like how I'd have to think about, like what I would wear because I would want to look like myself, but I would want to look like, you know, probably my best self, but also my best casual self. I'm not going to get a tuxedo for our, for our photo shoot. You and me, Luke with the New York Times. And I just sort of thinking about that because I'm thinking about what this guy is wearing, the co owner, and he's dressed very casually. Like he probably, probably dresses at work. Right. He's wearing a. He's wearing jeans, wearing blue jeans and a long sleeve pullover shirt. I don't know how to describe it other than that, but it's a very casual look, it looks like it has

[Luke Burbank]

a hood on it too.

[Andrew Walsh]

And maybe it does have a little hood. Maybe it's a little bit of a hoodie kind of situation, but it's like very casual. And he's a good. I think he's a good looking guy. Like, you know, and I just think I would never be able to pull that off because I'm not fit, like any kind of a pullover like that on me that would sort of hang off my body would just like accentuate parts of the front of my torso that I would not want accentuated. All the various lumps. But so, you know, so I don't dress like that. But it does make me wonder, like, I don't know, I'm just wondering, did he wake up that morning and be like, well, I got this photo shoot. I'm going to put on my best long sleeve hoodie. It sounds like I'm negging him and I'm not. I actually think he looks good when I just see somebody who can be kind of very casually good looking while posing for, for the newspaper of record, you know, like, did he think much about it or is he just so secure that he's like, yeah, I'm just gonna wear jeans and the pullover hoodie that I wear every day, you know,

[Luke Burbank]

I have an actual experience with this of being photographed in the New York Times and knowing it was gonna happen. When we were doing the Bryant park project, the New York Times wrote a piece about the show and me and Alison Stewart and I knew they were gonna take pictures. And I, I thought long and hard about what I was going to be wearing. And I came down on a biggie Smalls T shirt. And I think I very much wanted the readers of the New York Times to be like, this guy gets it.

[Andrew Walsh]

I was trying to queue up Big Papa, but for some reason, my. I hate it when you call me that. I hate it when you call me Big Papa. Is that the show title? I absolutely love that. Sorry. Because I knew where you were going with it.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah.

[Andrew Walsh]

This is you. Yeah. I mean, I understand it was, it. It was a different time.

[Luke Burbank]

It was a different time. I mean, I don't, I don't think it's. I don't think it's regrettable in some sort of, like, I don't know.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, no, not an appropriation way. No, no, no. I didn't mean.

[Luke Burbank]

I do love his music and all that and, you know, I'm a fan, but it was definitely me trying to like, cool guy signal and trying to Be like, this is not your typical NPR show. I bet you that this guy who co owns the redacted or the censored shop now in Omaha had none of those thoughts. I bet you he again, he looks like he's. Looks like he works out. He's pretty buff, actually, I think, under this shirt. In fact, maybe that's the.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, that's the thing. He knows he looks bad. Yeah, yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

And he's like, this shirt really shows off my pecs in a subtle way. Someday, a podcast that is successful, but not as successful as my favorite Mercury Murder will be talking about me. And I want, you know, I want to look buff in that photo. So he knew what he was doing and it worked. Congratulations, sir.

[Andrew Walsh]

Especially if my sister's gonna be wearing those cool shoes that everybody talks about.

[Luke Burbank]

I think you're right. I think much more Mary Janes than ballet flats. So I think you're right about that guy.

[Andrew Walsh]

I can't stop laughing. I just wrote it out. It's even funnier. I hate it when you call me Big papa. Here I go once again with the email. Every week, I hope that it's from a female. Oh, man. It's not from a female.

[Luke Burbank]

All right, Emails or V Mills, my good man.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yes. Yesterday or the day before on the show, I was kind of half spoofing when I told you that I felt bad because I had lied to Lucy the puppy dog for apparently no reason. I keep her in the kitchen when I'm recording. Recording the show down here. And the other day, as I was leaving the kitchen, I said to her, I'm just going downstairs for a second. I'll be back. Knowing that I was going to be down here for about two hours recording and producing with you, and I didn't have to lie to her. And I worried maybe that that would make her not trust me when I tell her other things down the line. You know, every decision I make with Lucy now, I think about how it's going to affect us as we continue, hopefully our long life together. And so I was like, oh, no. If I lied to her so casually in that instance, will it mean that when I'm telling her something important down the line, she won't believe me? But again, I was mostly joking.

[Luke Burbank]

Condoms.

[Andrew Walsh]

And I didn't. You know, I don't really think she speaks or understands English except for certain commands, but I got this voice memo from listener Ivy.

[Listener Ivy]

Okay, Andrew, I was just listening to your story about lying to Lucy for the first time, and I want you to know that there are consequences because my dog George is five now and. And probably four years ago, my husband and George were standing at the top of the stairs and my husband told George to go downstairs and he would follow him right down and meet him in the kitchen or whatever. Probably he wanted a snack or lunch or something. And George came downstairs, went to the kitchen, and Ricky never came down. And it has been years and years now, and George does not trust either of us to follow him downstairs. We have to go downstairs first and then he will come afterwards, but he will not go first. So once you break that trust, I do not think you can ever get it back.

[Luke Burbank]

Wow. This is your worst case scenario.

[Andrew Walsh]

I also like the fact that George just. He just keeps the receipts. He's just like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We've done this before. You go first. If we're really going to the kitchen, you go first. I'll be right behind you. I'm not going to do that thing where I'm down there. Trust but verify. Trust but verify. Where I'm holding my tail in my hands waiting for you to show up. Great.

[Luke Burbank]

By the way, my friend Spring said, she said your POD program came up in my feed today, which, by the way, feels like, okay, just admit you listen to the show. Don't act like it just, you know, like you couldn't avoid it. And said for Andrew, whether I plan to be gone for 10 minutes or a week, I give my dog a treat and I tell. Tell him, be right back. I find the treat assuages the lie. 10 out of 10 would recommend. So are you giving Lucy a treat when you're lying to her? Because she may come to enjoy the lying if there's a treat associated with it.

[Andrew Walsh]

That's interesting. Not. Not in a direct manner. Now, when I do leave her in the kitchen, one thing that we have is a little tray that has like nooks and crannies in it kind of. And we spray red yogurt on it, and then we freeze it. And then Genevieve is very proud. Genevieve's like, I call it puppy ice cream. I'm like, yeah, it's not that clever, but okay. And then we freeze it and then we take it out, we put it on the floor. And so I give her her frozen yogurt treat when I'm leaving her. Or. Or one of those. One of those. Now that's clever. Or. Or one of, you know, those Kong toys that you can kind of put a treat inside. We put some like, we put some like peanut butter inside there for her and leave her with that. It's something that kind of keeps her not as much as. As some dogs. It's kind of interesting. It's kind of good because she's not like. I actually was thinking about you and Rudy the other day because Lucy is not super food motivated. Like, she takes treats and definitely with the training, it definitely helps. But, like, when I'm on a walk with her, when I'm trying to train her on some, like, leash stuff, she. I can't use treats to convince her or to reward her because she's not that interested in treats out there. Come on. I'm still living through the trauma. And what if I just get kept a. She's like, oh, yeah, whenever she does anything good, give her a Trojan ribbed for her pleasure. I give her ribs anyway. So I. So anyway, she's not.

[Luke Burbank]

Persuade her with treats.

[Andrew Walsh]

I mean, you can, you can. But sometimes if she's too distracted, it's not the overarching personality trait. And I was thinking about how that was a tough thing for you and Rudy because you admit, like, I'll feed her sometimes and she'll just like we feed her, you know, three meals a day, day at specific times. And usually when I put the food out, she'll just let it sit there for a little bit and then eventually kind of come on over and eat half of it and then maybe eat half of it 20 minutes later or something. And I was thinking about how different that was with your experience. Right. You had kind of, had. You felt kind of bad because Rudy, like a lot of labs, I think, just really seemed hungry all the time. And you wanted to keep her happy, but you wanted to keep her healthy.

[Luke Burbank]

She would inhale, and I assume she still does in hail her, like one point, you know, one and a quarter cups of food or whatever we were doing in the morning and the night.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

And by the way, if it went to one and a half cups of food, you would notice, like, she would put on weight from the tiniest, like, difference. It just seemed like not enough food for a. For a, you know, a live thing. But yeah, she would just, like, you'd put it in the thing and she would eat it in under probably 20 seconds. And then just look at you like, okay, what's next? And you'd be like, buddy, I got bad news. Yeah, it's eight hours before you get another one of those.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, that would. That would kind of break my heart too. But you said that's kind of a common thing. With labs, though, that wasn't like her specific. It's just. That's how it is, right?

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, I think that. I think that that is a thing with labs. And then when we, you know, when we took her for training, they were like, this is a good thing. Because if a dog is very food motivated, you've got some leverage on them. So, you know, you can get them to do a lot if they're super duper invested in the idea of getting a treat. Whereas, you know, other dogs that are less, you know, motivated towards that, maybe it can be a little bit tougher to train them because you're not. You don't have something they want that badly.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, my goodness. You know what Ivy also sent us along with that voice memo is some photos of George. A picture, three photos. One of her husband just looking absolutely ashamed, just ashamed of himself for lying, but one of a puppy. A puppy photo of George. And it says, how could you lie to this face? And I agree. How could you lie to that face? And a photo of George today as a beautiful adult dog. I love this. Thank you for sharing, Ivy. And I'm sorry that you have trust issues with your dog, but I blame your husband.

[Luke Burbank]

And you've definitely put Andrew on a path of never, ever lying to Lucy again.

[Andrew Walsh]

No, I will never lie to her again, ever.

[Luke Burbank]

I think this, again, this lays out sort of the worst case scenario for you what you were worried would happen. And we've now seen it happening in their life.

[Andrew Walsh]

So I think the thing that shocked me the most was just how needless the lie was, yet how. How quickly it came out of my mouth. You know what I mean? It was. It was yesterday.

[Luke Burbank]

A hundred percent. It's about your guilt, right?

[Andrew Walsh]

Exactly like that. But you needed it. Yeah, I needed that. And then who am I? Who am I? I'm just. I. I wasn't lying to Lucy. I was lying to myself is the problem.

[Luke Burbank]

Exactly. All right, well, speaking of that dog, you should get back to her. I should get on the road and head towards Los Angeles International Airport so that I can fly to Chicago so that I can join you all tomorrow on this broadcast from the Windy City. So we'll be doing that. And thank you everybody for listening to today's episode again. I will. And Andrew will be right back here tomorrow with more imaginary radio for all of you. Please do join us for that. In the meantime, everybody, take care of yourselves. Dare I say it, Go Mariners. Are they playing today?

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, I think they have one more game in the series, right?

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, nice they? They're still playing. I mean, they didn't cancel the season because Feels like they should. Anyway, go, Mariners. And please remember, no mountain too tall.

[Andrew Walsh]

And good luck to all.

[Luke Burbank]

This has been not fun, but, you know, it happened.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah. Power out.