#4754 The School Of Soft Knocks

Summary

TBTL Episode #4754: “The School of Soft Knocks”

Date: June 22, 2026
Hosts: Luke Burbank & Andrew Walsh

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Episode Overview

In this Monday edition of TBTL, Luke and Andrew dive into two of the show's favorite zones: pet antics and neighborhood dynamics. Luke is dog-sitting two standard poodles, Gigi and DJ, leading to a cascade of animal stories, unexpected moments of sweetness, and neighborhood drama. The hosts meander through conversations on property disputes, the value of community, the shifting meaning of national symbols, newspaper nostalgia, and the complicated feelings around American identity as the 4th of July approaches. The show—true to its “School of Soft Knocks” theme—maintains its signature mix of light banter, self-deprecating humor, meandering digressions, and thoughtful reflection.

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Major Discussion Points & Notable Moments

1. Luke’s Cold, Dog-Sitting, and the "Pet Swap" Saga

• [01:15] Luke apologizes for his voice, explaining he’s fighting a summer cold.
• [03:42] He details a convoluted multi-pet care situation involving trading cats and dogs among friends across Oregon and Washington.
• The challenge: Becca is going to dog-sit Toby, a dog who can't be around other animals, so a massive "chicken-fox-bag of grain" style shuffle ensues. As a result, Luke now hosts DJ and Gigi, the two standard poodles.
• [08:00] Anecdote: Fireworks spooked DJ at night, leading to a touching moment where the dog seeks comfort by Luke’s bedside.

Luke: "[DJ] comes over to my side of the bed and just puts her little head on me." (08:30)

2. Andrew on Human-Canine Connection

• [10:40] Andrew shares how developing eye contact and trust with his own dog, Lucy, has given him a new sense of what it means to be a “family.”

Andrew: “The bond between a human and a dog that is expressed in a quick glance over the dog's shoulder…it just means the damn world to me.” (11:45)

3. Dog Logistics and Instagram Confusion

• [12:51] Luke reflects on the different personalities of the poodles—DJ is reliable off-leash; Gigi is a “scatterbrain.”
• [15:00] Luke’s Instagram post about the dogs sparked confusion—some thought he’d permanently adopted two poodles, others nitpicked his joke about “almost double zero” dogs.
• Discussion of the joys and anxieties of temporarily caring for (and bonding with) pets.

4. Neighborhood Dynamics & The Culture of Paranoia

• [16:21] Luke recounts an awkward encounter with a neighbor while walking the dogs: entering a dead-end road, he receives a “daggers” glare from a woman whose two Jack Russell terriers are barking.
• [20:06] Discussion about how some neighbors fixate on public-road “trespass” or obsess over minor property issues (e.g., fences, property lines).

Luke: “The idea that people are like going to court or the HOA or having knockdown drag out life-ruining altercations...because a fence went up six inches into their yard is just—I do not understand that kind of wiring.” (21:37)

• [24:11] Luke and Andrew tell neighbor horror stories, including a neighbor who only trimmed their holly tree on their side (“it looked like it had schizophrenia”) and a botched fence repair.

5. Dazzling Donor Messages & Community Reflections

• [31:24] Listener Nicole thanks the show for being an anchor during her years juggling parenthood and remote work.

Nicole (read by Luke): “It helps anchor my day… TBTL is old enough to go to college. But we flunked the SAT.” (32:51)

• [33:45] Luke and Andrew riff on the phrase “School of Hard Knocks,” and suggest TBTL represents the “School of Soft Knocks.”
• [35:40] Luke muses on college as a social signifier and shares a story about dating app hostility from men upset about educational preferences.

6. Notable Quotes & Banter

• [11:11] Andrew: "As somebody who has never had a dog before but has watched other people with their dogs to varying degrees of envy at times…and honestly, fascination at times..."
• [15:26] Luke: “That was the joke. But there's some people that want to make sure that I understand that 2 is not almost double of 0.”
• [25:17] Luke: “Holly has been getting away with absolute murder for decades, ever since it got folded into Christmastimes.”
• [28:47] Luke/Andrew: Extended bit with the “rattle dazzle” song—recurring TBTL inside joke.

7. Print Newspapers, Media Consumption, & Subscription Economics

• [43:22] Luke and Andrew reminisce about the physical experience of reading newspapers, noting dwindling physical deliveries in their neighborhoods.

Luke: “I think I was more apt to read more of the paper when I was getting it physically… there’s just something different about it for me.”

• [53:11] Conversation about magazine subscriptions: New Yorker, Harper’s, Atlantic, and the psychology of costly, accumulated subscriptions.

Andrew: “It was a little bit old, and then give us updates at the top or the bottom or whatever. I don't. I do love the New York Times, and I know it has its critics on both sides, but I'm not…critical of the Times, but I am critical of the way that I can't kind of just read a straight article anymore.” (48:27)

8. American Identity & The Fourth of July

• [58:11] A frank, nuanced exchange about the complicated feelings the hosts have around the American flag, national anthem rituals at sports games, American “ideas,” and nationalism.
• [66:53] Andrew recounts seeing a shirt proclaiming “America is an idea” at a ballgame, sparking questions about American exceptionalism vs. inclusivity.
• [73:34] Andrew expresses his discomfort with “USA! USA!” chants at sporting events, noting how nationalism can feel fraught and exclusive.

9. Unexpected Kindness From Across the Political Divide

• [79:56] Luke tells a story about asking a stranger wearing a “If you don’t kneel for the cross…” shirt to take a group photo; despite the shirt’s polarizing message, the man is gracious and even funny while helping.

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Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• Luke: "I feel a little bad... I think I misled some people on Instagram, and now they're going to be disappointed because I put a little Instagram post up about these dogs... and the people responding were divided into two camps: people who think I've adopted two poodles... and people correcting me on the math." (15:00)
• Luke: "I said this last time Gigi was here. It is just so soul enriching for me to... just have something to kind of take care of." (06:50)
• Andrew: "The bond between a human and a dog that is expressed in a quick glance over the dog's shoulder... it just means the damn world to me." (11:45)
• Luke: "I don't understand not liking seeing people in the world." (20:06)
• Luke: “Holly has been getting away with absolute murder for decades, ever since it got folded into Christmastimes.” (25:17)
• Andrew: "The chanting of a bunch of mostly white men chanting USA, USA—hurts my nerves." (75:35)
• Luke: "How are you this guy in this [political] shirt? Because you're not the guy... I thought you were going to be based on the shirt." (81:11)

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Key Timestamps for Major Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|---------| | 01:00 | Luke’s summer cold and pet-sitting setup explanation | | 03:42 | The intricate “chicken-fox-bag of grain”-style pet swap story | | 08:00 | DJ the poodle’s fireworks scare and comfort-seeking | | 10:40 | Andrew on the everyday miracle of eye contact with Lucy | | 16:20 | Luke’s neighborhood walk and the suspicious neighbor | | 20:06 | The cultural psychology of property disputes | | 24:11 | Bad neighbor stories—holly tree insanity, fence repair | | 31:24 | Dazzling Donor message from Nicole: podcast as life anchor | | 33:45 | “School of Hard Knocks” vs. “School of Soft Knocks” | | 43:22 | Newspaper nostalgia and media consumption habits | | 53:11 | Magazine subscriptions, cost, and accumulated value | | 58:11 | The complexities of American identity, patriotism, and “ideas” | | 66:53 | Andrew’s reflection on “America is an idea” T-shirt | | 73:34 | Discomfort with “USA!” chants at sporting events | | 79:56 | Interacting with a “kneel for the cross” T-shirt stranger |

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Tone & Style

Lightly meandering, affectionate, self-aware, observational, and prone to digression. Playful jokes, gentle pokes at each other, and the occasional deeper reflection on culture and society—usually with a shrug of bemused resignation or hesitant optimism.

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Closing

Luke and Andrew wrap up with teases for tomorrow’s show: Andrew will share his first dog park story and a run-in with his own “Dr. Rick” moment. They reflect on the unpredictable kindness of strangers and the possibility of bridging political and personal divides, leaving things on a hopeful, if ambivalent, note.

Andrew: “I want to tell you about my first trip to a dog park... and how that ended up working out. If we can try to remember those, I will tell you.” (83:26)

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Power Out!

Transcript

[Andrew]

Well, tell me how you both got started in acting as art. I started doing stand up. Jerry Seltzer's Laugh Emporium. I was at Chortle's, the comedy place. And no one really. No one really got it. I got it. I thought it was hysterical. What did he do? She has a one woman show. Tell her the title, Ivon. No penis intended. No penis intended. She did.

[Luke]

Here.

[Andrew]

Yes. And what was that about? One critic described it as a humorless romp into Ms. Webb's dysfunctional psyche. It's a humorless critic. That doesn't make sense. No. TBTL. Hi, Luke and Andrew. It's Irene and I have a funny joke for you. Okay. What is the radish's favorite food? Beats me. Mmm. Ah.

[Luke]

Gazpacho soup just burned my lips.

[Andrew]

The gazpacho? Yeah, it's been sitting out.

[Luke]

It warmed up.

[Andrew]

It warmed up so much that it burned your lip.

[Luke]

Let me explain something to you.

[Andrew]

If you're expecting something ice cold and

[Luke]

you bring it up to your lips and it's room temp, it's going to feel like your mouth's on fire. It's gonna feel like your body's on fire. Is there and I'm just guessing here

[Andrew]

some kind of medication that you maybe

[Luke]

need a lot of and have taken

[Andrew]

none of or maybe too much of today? Yalapeno.

[Luke]

I don't even know what that means. No one know what it means, but it's provocative. Well, all right. Hello, good morning and welcome, everyone, to a Monday edition of tbtl, the show that just might be too beautiful to live. A good podcast helps you connect the dots. My name's Luke Burbank. I'm your host. He is using every kind of anti aging technique possible. I should be using every kind of anti coughing technique possible because I have a weird summer cold today. So apologies for the voice, by the way, coming to you from the Madrona Hill studio, perched high above the mighty Columbia, where we are looking at a warm, warm Monday might touch 90. It's gonna be very hot. Gonna be very uncomfortable for everybody involved as we hit episode 4753 in a

[Andrew]

collector series, Let the fun begin.

[Luke]

Speaking of things that are hot, I remembered my spicy subway takes.

[Andrew]

Be careful though, it's spicy.

[Luke]

Remember we were talking about that show Subway Takes the other day and Andrew asked me what my subway take would be and I couldn't remember even though I had one. And then I made a joke about tearing the bread out. Well, I remember my spicy takes. I'll share them with you today and I'll share them with two standard poodles who are here in the studio with me.

[Andrew]

I say, what's up, dog?

[Luke]

Gigi and DJ are both here this week helping me out with the show. By helping me out, I mean. Well, one DJ's getting a lot of pets right now. I don't know if Andrew can see this on the line, but. And also barking at the mailman when he comes by. So that's their version of helping. We'll see what Andrew's version is. He's the longest running cobra of the show, maybe best known for his depictions of the tall ships. He's making 1.2 million or something a year by, you know, doing this complete horseshit. He's joining me right now. Good morning, my friend.

[Andrew]

I know I say this to you every day to pump you up before the show, Luke, but. But it's almost hurting me to listen to you talk today.

[Luke]

I thought it's better than it was. I had to record a CBS thing, a livewire thing already this morning and it was actually. This is improved, dude.

[Andrew]

Well, I don't mean to say that as an insult. I mean, I sort of did. As a joking insult. I mean it more empathetically though you sound. How do you feel? What's going on? I feel fine. In the middle of summer.

[Luke]

I know. I don't think this is the time of year for this.

[Andrew]

No.

[Luke]

Becca and I were down in Salem yesterday having a lovely afternoon of doing like a unbelievably complicated pet swap. So see if I can make this semi simple.

[Andrew]

Well, Becca emailed me frogs and scorpions.

[Luke]

Well, actually, yes. Essentially Becca texted me and said we have a real chicken fox, you know, bag of grain situation, which I believe is essentially the same, you know, logic puzzle. And so the issue is Becca is going to dog sit a little dog named Toby for her friends Kara and Jim later in the week. But Toby does not do great around other animals. So the cats needed to go somewhere.

[Andrew]

Oh my God, I see where this is going.

[Luke]

So we took the cats to Salem where they're hanging out with Jeff and Darcy. But the thing is, the dogs that live down with Jeff and Darcy, DJ and Gigi, they needed to go somewhere because Jeff and Darcy, Jeff is along with his day job, he's also like a DJ for events and they have an out of town DJing gig this week. And so someone needed to take the dogs. So the cats went to Salem, the dogs came up here and Toby will be arriving at Becca's House midweek. And so that was the shuffle. And what it means is that I am hanging out with these two beauties. I feel a little bad, like I was a little miss. Oh, the thing I was going to mention is on the drive home from Salem yesterday, I just started feeling. I just started coughing. I thought maybe I had a little dust in my throat, but then, no. I realized while I was trying to sleep last night. You ever had that thing where you have to keep swallowing? You cannot stop from swallowing at night. You just like, you just want to tell your, your mouth and your throat it's not. It's some saliva or whatever. It's. It's probably not even saliva. It's probably some swelling that's creating a sensation that your brain is unable to override or overrule. I was just lying there going, stop swallowing. But it couldn't.

[Andrew]

That's a bad feeling. And you know, just to. Because I think I understand this, but just if anybody has any questions about. Sounds like you could skip a step here by just having the cats come to you. But you're not well equipped to watch two cats. You're better equipped to watch two dogs. That's why.

[Luke]

No, because the dogs still need to go somewhere. The dogs can't stay in Salem.

[Andrew]

Right. But I thought that. Oh, I thought the dogs were displacing. I thought the cats were displacing the dogs that are with you or something.

[Luke]

The dogs have to leave Salem because the people who take care of them are leaving Salem this week.

[Andrew]

Oh, I see. Oh, I gotcha. I was, I was so clearly listening closely.

[Luke]

Yes. Well, it's complicated. I've got, I've got it all written down somewhere. I can send you a diagram of it. But all of that is to say that, that I've got these dogs with me and it's already. It's been under 24 hours. In fact, it's in well under 24 hours. We got home at about 9 o' clock last night and I'm already just having an absolute good old fashioned whale of a time with these dogs. I love them so much and it is so fun to have them here. It is so kind of just. I said this last time Gigi was here. It is just so soul enriching for me to, you know, and also just to have something to kind of take care of is nice for me a little bit. So like we got out for a early morning walk today and got to go investigate the neighborhood and, and do some sniffing also. The dogs sniffed things so that Was fun for them.

[Andrew]

You showed them all your favorite sniffing spots? I did, I did.

[Luke]

And they seem to approve. I got a couple of those long, like, tethers so I can tether them. They can hang out in the yard on their own tethers and just kind of like, they were doing that earlier. I was on the treadmill, except I'm on the treadmill up here in the Madrona Hill studio, and I have a big window, and I, like, kind of look over to the side, and there's just, like, two black standard poodles that are just mean mugging me from the patio.

[Andrew]

Just standing there next to you. Mean mugging you?

[Luke]

Well, they're just standing next to each other out on the patio, just looking up at me like, can we go inside there and hang out with you? Which. So they're very. They're very attached to me. Was actually incredibly kind of touching and sweet last night. So I'm letting them kind of. They're, you know, they're hypoallergenic. They're very, like, chill dogs. Like, they don't. They don't get on things. They don't shed. They're very, very, well, housebroken. So, like, it's pretty low impact, actually. So I was just like. I, like, opened the door to the upstairs. I had the whole living room just, like, wherever you guys want to sleep tonight. But I also left my bedroom door open because I thought. I don't know. I just want them to know that I'm not trying to, like, cut them out of my. Maybe they're nervous. Maybe. You know, DJs never stayed the night here. So at about. I want to say maybe, I don't know, 11:30 or something, there was, like a. I think someone lit off a fire crack. Like a firework of some kind. Because, you know, it's June. Why wouldn't you. You can't start on the fireworks too early, I guess. So somebody lit off some kind of firework boom. And next thing you know, I hear the click, click, click of DJs little talons as she, like, walks in, comes over to my side of the bed and just puts her little head on me.

[Andrew]

She was.

[Luke]

She was scared by the fireworks, so she just kind of, like, laid down on the floo floor next to where I was and slept for a few hours till she got her confidence back. And then she went out and chilled with Gigi. But, no, they're gonna be with me all week, actually. I think they're going home on, like, Saturday night, so it's gonna Be really, what's going on here, Andrew, is I couldn't let you steal the spotlight. You thought, oh, I'm gonna go get Lucy, and now I'm gonna be the center of attention, and I'm gonna put Lucy in the newsletter each week and, like, and that, you know, and that's

[Andrew]

just what the people want.

[Luke]

Well, wait till they see some pictures of Gigi and DJ Okay. I could not let this go unaddressed. And so you get. You get one dog, Andrew. I'm coming back with two dogs.

[Andrew]

Well, I'm online right now. I'm on. I'm on. I'm on dogstore.com and I'm looking to take. Oh, look, they have a bulk deal here. While we're talking about dog stuff. That feeling of a dog that comes to you because they trust you when they're feeling a little stressed out, obviously it's not good that the dog felt a little stressed out there. That's a bummer. But I'm glad to know that it didn't, like, totally kind of go to ground or, you know, you hear some dogs get so anxious about that that they go running into a bathtub or something like that. And it sounds like she was feeling. He. He or she.

[Luke]

She.

[Andrew]

She was feeling a little bit of anxiety.

[Luke]

DJ And Gigi.

[Andrew]

And so. So she came over.

[Luke]

What's your gender?

[Andrew]

So, yeah, sorry. I'm thinking about a funny text message I got regarding that today that I will not share because it was somebody very angry at. I like that idea of the dog coming over and looking to you for security of some sort. And I will say this is something I was trying to explain to John before a meeting the other day that it's just going to sound like the most basic thing. It's so basic. I don't even know if dog owners are going to understand what I'm talking about here. But as somebody who has never had a dog before but has watched other people with their dogs to varying degrees of envy at times, and honestly, fascination at times. Sometime in the past, like I'm going to say, I don't know, several weeks, I've gotten to a place with Lucy that is such a small thing that means so, so much to me. And it is simply eye contact. It is like when we were out in the world, like when she was a puppy, everything was new. And I'm not saying we never had eye contact, but that I'm talking about the very specific kind of eye contact when you are out on a walk with a dog or maybe Even just in the yard or whatever. And. And she kind of just looks over her shoulder at you a little bit, like, are we doing this? Or where are we going next? Or is this okay? Or are you following me? And it's like this little bit of communication. And I swear to God, I would be behind the wheel of my car at a stoplight and just watching a person with their dog cross the street in front of me. And then, of course, I revved the engine to kind of freak him out a little bit, but. No, but then you broke your car. Yeah. I told Luke I won't talk about it on the show. I won't bore you all, but I've had a lot of things go sideways on me this weekend. But I unloaded on Luke before the show. But anyway, that little look, I was envious of that. The bond between a human and a dog that is expressed in a quick glance over the dog's shoulder is. It just means the damn world to me. And she's very much like that with us now. And it just. It like, to me, it's like we are truly a family.

[Luke]

I mean, I don't have any right to even have that relationship with these dogs because, you know, DJ in particular, really doesn't know me. And I don't know if Gigi remembers my particular smell or this house or whatever, but, like, they're just. Their wiring is just that. They're very keyed into whatever I'm doing almost to, like. It's an adorable but already troubling degree. I was trying to do some writing last night on my computer, and Gigi, first of all, both of the dogs were just, like, on my lap. And then I'm typing, and Gigi's putting her nose under my hand while it's typing. So now I'm typing. I start from, like, typing normally to. I'm now, like, I'm having to go, like, do the most awkward typing mechanism mechanics to try to get around this. Like, it wasn't enough to just be on my lap. It wasn't enough to be on part of my head. It had to be under my hand. That was typing on the computer.

[Andrew]

Those hands are for petting, not typing, Luke.

[Luke]

Well, that's what I've learned. So, yeah, they're very, like. They're very sweet, and they seem to be very, you know, comfortable with me and also, like, looking to me for. Because again, I got these tethers because I wanted them. I thought, well, maybe it'd be more fun for them to be out in the yard. They can lounge. They can go to the bathroom at their leisure or whatever. But I think, honestly, they just want to be where I am more so than having the enjoyment. And the other big question out here, which I'm sure this will unfold over the week. This is actually a really fun piece of property for dogs to roam around on, if dogs will come back when called. And one of these dogs, DJ is really good about this. And one of these dogs, Gigi, is notoriously bad. And so I. I think. I mean, I'm going to probably just keep him on these tethers just out of caution, because if Gigi decides to, you know, run off, I mean, I literally might never catch her because physically it's not possible. And she's a little bit of. A little bit of a scatterbrain or she's a bit of a scam. But. But.

[Andrew]

But.

[Luke]

Because, I mean, the ideal would be if I could just, like, let them kind of. That's what they do. They live on this incredible property in Salem, Oregon, down in wine country, and it's like acres and acres and acres. And they just literally spend all day just kind of walking around wherever they feel like, which is just, like, the absolute life for a dog. So, wait, I don't know.

[Andrew]

Is. I feel like football coming to wine country.

[Luke]

Does that happen every season to.

[Andrew]

Every season Football? There's no. But there is no whining in football,

[Luke]

if that's how I remember it. You know what? Let me check my notes on that. The last thing is I feel a little bad because I think I misled some people on Instagram, and now they're going to be disappointed because I put a little Instagram post up about these dogs, and I said. I took some pictures of them yesterday, and I said something like, it's crazy to think that today started with no dogs here, with zero dogs here. And now there's almost two. It's almost double that. And the people responding to the post were really divided into two camps. The people who clearly think that I have now somehow adopted two poodles.

[Andrew]

Two adult poodles.

[Luke]

Two adult poodles, and they're just going to live here, which would make absolutely zero sense for my lifestyle. So it's those people. They're like, you better talk about this on tbtl. Holy. I think our friend Stacy up in Bellingham said, talk about a forward promotion. So that was one camp, and then the other camp was people correcting me on the fact that that two dogs is not almost double zero.

[Andrew]

Well, that's When I can, I do the voice. That's the joke.

[Luke]

Thank you.

[Andrew]

I got that.

[Luke]

Thank you.

[Andrew]

Wolf.

[Luke]

Yes. No, thank you. Rainier. Rainier Wolf Castle. Yeah, that was the. That was the joke. But there's some people that want to make sure that I understand that 2 is not almost double of 0, which. But. But anyway, I feel. But if. If. If you. If you tuned in today to TBTL because you thought that I permanently adopted these two dogs. No, it is just a temporary assignment. We're just doing this for a week. But I'm sure that I will. I will spare no detail about how it's going with them. It also may have kind of slightly put me into a bit of a moment of pique with one of my neighbors this morning. I'm out walking them and they're building. There's sort of like my street, and then there's sort of a canyon or like, I don't know what you call it, I guess a canyon. How big does something. How A ravine. You know what? It's not a canyon, it's a ravine. Does that make sense?

[Andrew]

That makes total sense. Yes.

[Luke]

Okay, so there's a ravine that separates my little neighborhood, which is my house and my neighbor Bob, he of the starter fluid, and then ravine. And then these other homes that are being built out there, which are very beautiful new homes. And I'm always curious about the project. One of them. One of them's done. The people live there. The other one's still in mid construction. So I like to walk over there. So I took the dogs probably up, over and down there. It's probably three quarters of a mile.

[Andrew]

And they're both on leash. Right. Because you couldn't let Gigi off leash in a situation.

[Luke]

No, no, no, no. That would be. Dj. It could probably get away with. But Gigi. Absolutely no way. So they're both on the leash and

[Andrew]

it's separate leashes, or is it like one leash? The separate leash. Okay. Yeah. Is that. I'm not joking. Is that difficult?

[Luke]

It has its moments. It's actually generally fine. They're pretty well behaved. They do strain a little bit. You know what strangely works, seems to work the best is if I hold both leashes in one hand. I don't know what that does psychologically, but they seem to kind of just stick together when I'm holding a leash in either hand. So a leash in my right hand, a leash in my left hand, John Woo style, they start straining. And then I've ever seen those, like, pictures of, like, Poseidon, like, riding Yes,

[Andrew]

I have aquatic life.

[Luke]

Yeah. That's what it felt like going up my street today.

[Andrew]

Dog in each hand. Yeah.

[Luke]

And I was like, well, like, let's. So we go up, over and down. Because I just want to go look at. And it's a dead end. And where I'm going with this is like, I feel like people are really sensitive about people walking on roads sometimes like that are a dead end. Like their people are up to no good or something. You know, I mean, we've talked about versions of this, how you're not a huge fan of the kind of ring cam culture and like paranoia, I would

[Andrew]

say the paranoia that is being sort of like swirled up. I would say, yeah.

[Luke]

And this could be 100% just in my own head, but this is like maybe 7, 45, 8 in the morning. We go, we walk up, we walk to the end of my road and then we cut over on the other road. And now we're going to go down this dead end road that eventuates at these new homes that are being built. As you go down this road. At the end of the road there's an older home, a home that's been there a long time, that's very well maintained and manicured, little gardens and everything. And we get down. All I want to do is stare at this new house that I can only kind of see from my place. I just want to look at it for a minute. I'm not going to try to go into the house or even go onto the property. And I'm just at the end of a dead end road. I'm not in any, I'm not on any private property. I've not like, you know, entered someone's yard or anything like that. I am standing at the end of a paved road with these two dogs and the woman who lives in the older home that's been there a while is out and doing some gardening and she's got two little like Jack Russell terriers and they're like barking away and I'm just kind of laying.

[Andrew]

Are they restrained, do you know? I'm just curious.

[Luke]

They're in a fenced off yard.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Luke]

Okay, so they're not like, there's not any, there's no issue with the dogs like, you know, interacting. It's just they're barking a little bit, which isn't really bothering me. I, I just. And I've got these two dogs that are. I'm just gonna be honest with you, they're pretty cute. And like, I wave, I give this woman who I've never spoken to a big wave. And she just shoots me the biggest daggers. And I was like, I couldn't tell if she was mad that like she's unmoving and I'm like waving like, hey there, how's it going? And she just like stares at me and says absolutely nothing. And I couldn't tell. But she was annoyed that I activated her dogs, which to me it's, I feel a reasonable thing for people to walk down public roads with their own very quiet leashed dogs. If that activates your dogs, that might be a you problem. Or that she's just like, who is this person? Coming down to the. That was more because she's got like signs, you know, no turnaround. And it's one of those deals.

[Andrew]

That's what it is.

[Luke]

She's at the very end of the dead end road and she's got a number of signs that are like they, they all indicate past trauma. Around what people driving down to the end of this dead end road and then doing a three point turn and leaving or whatever. She doesn't like that. Doesn't like people being down on the road. And it's just like, I don't understand that your road. Well, right. And also I don't understand not liking seeing people in the world. For instance, my neighbor Gay, she has a Pomeranian. She walks the Pomeranian down to the end of the street to. To my yard. Exactly what I was doing over there. Except she actually maybe sometimes comes into my yard, which I do not care about. And I love it. I love it for Gay. I love it for the Pomeranian. I just. When I got. Actually when I got home with the dogs last night, there was just two people. I don't even know. They're just out on a walk. It's a beautiful evening. They're just enjoying themselves. They're walking down the road towards my house. Then they're gonna get to the end of the paved road and turn around and walk back. I don't. I feel like something has happened in American culture and maybe it's. I'm looking at too much TikTok and I somehow fell into the algorithm of like people getting into these disputes with their neighbors. But they're always about insane things, like someone walking down a road that someone doesn't want them walking down, or a car parked somewhere that's maybe moderately not where it's allowed to be. Or to me, the one that I will never understand, a fence that is 4 inches over the property line. As if you need those four inches, like A, I don't know what the property line of this house is, but if you told me that Bob or Brian, my two neighbors, had somehow encroached up to, I'd give them 10ft each. Like the idea that people are like going to court or the HOA or having knockdown drag out life ruining altercations with the people they live next to because a fence went up six inches into their yard is just. I do not understand that kind of wiring.

[Andrew]

I know somebody who's going through this right now in a much smaller plot of land. Right. So that's one thing that might be

[Luke]

a little bit of, you know, what makes me so chill about this.

[Andrew]

But also it would be my guess, although I'm not being fed all of these things. You're being fed. And again, I think that's a pretty specific. You're probably, you know, on TikTok, as you said, probably maybe seeing a disproportionate number of these things. But I legitimately cannot say much about my friend's situation. But I will say it's. It's here more in the legal reasons. Well, just for their privacy and everything. And it's kind of an ongoing thing. But I know that they mentioned recently something about like. Yeah. And their fences over the, you know, over the. The. Where the.

[Luke]

Oh yeah.

[Andrew]

Thing is. And I realize what's going on is it's not about where that fence is. They used to have a good relationship with this neighbor and that was never a thing. But other things started happening that they're in the middle of that didn't have to do with where that fence was and the property line. But other things, bigger things, things that have now continued to escalate that have fences being built on both sides and various things being built on both sides and like kind of an almost antagonistic reaction from the neighbors over some stuff. And so I've heard them mention, oh, by the way, their fences over the property line, but it didn't start there, you know, and my guess is that's true for most of these.

[Luke]

And I know who you're talking about and I of course side with them because they're our friend and also they're rational and you're. Absolutely. Here's the thing. It actually makes more sense to me for that friend of ours to know the exact property line because of all of the run up to this, as you said to me. So that I get people being nitpicky once they've already been sort of triggered by other stuff. I feel like there are people that, like, you know, and maybe it's always just a bigger story, but just like, I've never. And I. You know, I've lived in city lots and things like that, you know, I've just. The only thing that. The only way that my neighbor has ever really just fully torqued me off was when we lived in Mount Baker and I had the neighbor with the gigantic holly tree. The guy in that absolute shit band, Sweetwater.

[Andrew]

Oh, that's right.

[Luke]

Who he would only pay to have. This is his tree. This is a gigantic holly tree that is in his yard. This is his living thing. That is. Has nothing to do with me, but it's so huge that it's grown all the way out over, like, the top of the steps where you would get to go up to our house. And it's holly, by the way, which is not unless you're talking Christmas stuff. It's not like the world's most pleasant. It's got kind of pokey parts on it.

[Andrew]

Luke. I pulled some holly out of my yard overhead, and. Well, what was fun was getting rid of it. Yes. I cut it down to the quick. I hate holly. I hate holly. In fact, I was thinking about our friend who's having the. Let's call it a property dispute, if that sounds too strong of a word. He and I were bonding over our hatred of holly a couple of years ago, too, it seems like. So, like, how can you say anything about what? You got a problem with reindeers, you got a problem with Santa Claus? You're going to go after mistletoe? I don't give a man. Holly is the worst. You. You get anywhere near it and it starts poking you.

[Luke]

Holly has been getting away with absolute murder for decades, ever since it got folded into Christmas times.

[Andrew]

Yep.

[Luke]

And so this guy. This guy, like, they would pay for. They would pay to have their tree trimmed, but only on the side of the tree that was on their property. So it made. I know. I've told the story a million times. It made the most insane topiary event you could ever imagine happen, which is. I mean, and this was. I've, like. This is the largest holly tree I've ever seen in my life. This is not a bush. This is, like, enormous. And then one side of it is, like, beautifully manicured and trimmed. And then one side of it is just crazy and ragged everywhere. And I'm like, just for you, this being your tree, why wouldn't you want it to look normal? It looks like it had schizophrenia.

[Andrew]

Yeah, right.

[Luke]

Just the craziest Those were the same people.

[Andrew]

Symbol of something. I don't know exactly what symbolize cheap ass coal.

[Luke]

I mean that was the thing. Those people, those guys, they just absolutely sucked.

[Andrew]

Like, I wonder if people are starting to figure out who these people are.

[Luke]

Yeah, like I, I have absolutely, as you can tell, I have no regrets about, about naming and shaming these people because they're just, they're just like, they're as lame neighbors. The other thing speaking of fences, I told you was, you know, they, they had a fence that was completely dissolving, like it was rotting away. And I was looking at it from my yard all the time and I was like, that's very unsightly. What I'll do is I'll just go out and pay on my own dime to just build a fence in our yard. And then I will look at that and it will be beautiful. And by the way, I never even asked, I never even checked where their fence was. Visa via the property line, like I did not care. I just wanted to have a nice newer fence that I could look at instead of this rotting one they had, they had, you know, let go to seed. And of course they hear that I'm going to do this and they're like, hey, why don't we go in on the fence? We'll go in on a new fence. And I was like, okay. So we each kick in, I don't know, whatever. Some, I mean, I trusted them. Let's say I kicked in 500 bucks or a thousand bucks or whatever. They just have some handyman come out and just. And you, you were coming by the house in those days, so you've probably seen this handiwork. I think they just, they fixed up their side of the fence, the side that faced their yard so that it looked a little nicer. And then the part that was in my yard, they had some handyman come out who was the same guy who'd fixed their fence and just nail on these random unrelated boards down at the ground level, which is where the fence was rotting. The bottom of the fence had become rotten from contact with the grass. And this had nothing to. This was not the kind of fencing that was in the fence. It was not even going in the same direction as the slats of the fence. They took the money, they fixed their side of the fence and then just had a rando come over to my yard and just nail like little Abner style, nail a bunch of shit boards onto my side of the thing. And that was the solution to the problem.

[Andrew]

So you mean like, like the low rises in the Wire when they're bored.

[Luke]

I'm trying.

[Andrew]

They're bored. I just feel like one thing you see a lot is I think there are bodies in those buildings. But you see, I'm forgetting the character's name. But the really young kids are often like hammering boards over the doors just to finally like kind of.

[Luke]

Chris Snoop.

[Andrew]

Yeah, right.

[Luke]

Yeah, I, I, yeah, it was so that's why you do that to me. You, you get, you get a whack ash, a whack ass holly tree going. And you also completely bamboozled me on a fence. And I'm get. I'm naming you on this podcast. I don't care. I do not care. Andrew, we was hoping for some razzle dazzle. Razzle dazzle. That's right, man. Razzle dazzle.

[Andrew]

On your mark.

[Luke]

On your mark.

[Andrew]

Get set. Get set now. Ready? Ready. Go.

[Luke]

Everybody rattle dazzle takes a drag off of his cigarette. Now that's a song I haven't heard in a while.

[Andrew]

Well, except for when I accidentally play it under the blurs days. Okay.

[Luke]

Other than that puts out stamps out cigarette.

[Andrew]

No, that's right. We have more blurs days too.

[Luke]

That's what I was trying to say. We thought we were all through the dazzling donor messages, but in fact there are a few more that that were still making their way to us. And we are just so dern appreciative of the financial support that the show receives that we of course will read those messages. And we've got one from our friend Nicole Partridge out there in Bothell for a lifetime. Washington.

[Andrew]

Nice. Thank you. Savage Moose indeed. Oh, by the way, you want an update on the Savage Moose?

[Luke]

I really do.

[Andrew]

The city of Kent we so you know that we are friends with listener Nigel who is the mayor of Kent.

[Luke]

More courage. I want to be careful to people note not the British lawmaker who's a terrible person. This is Nigel. Her big.

[Andrew]

I think I was talking about Farage.

[Luke]

Oh, you are friends with Nigel.

[Andrew]

But you know what? I'll. Let's table that conversation and let's go back.

[Luke]

Did you get Starmer drummed out of office today? I am. Look how international.

[Andrew]

I know. I'd love bringing the Starmer news. This is great. I am looking for the actual text message, but yes. Nigel, who I think is technically the mayor of Kenmore. Right. He's a council member and also the mayor.

[Luke]

Is he currently. That's what I was wondering about.

[Andrew]

I believe so. Yeah. I believe the re election is behind us and went his Way. And it says here, funny thing, this is a text message we got just on Saturday. Funny thing, the city of Kenmore now owns the building of the Savage Moose. The bar is still privately owned and run. We bought it because we will be doing some fish culvert work on a stream that runs underneath the property and it was easier to purchase the property rather than the slice we'll need further on. Anyway, it's not gonna affect the Savage Moose, but technically owned by the city of Kenmore.

[Luke]

So in other words, the bar will still operate, but the city of Kenmore bought it so that they can do what they need to do for, you know, habitat restoration.

[Andrew]

Yeah, that's what it says here. And I assume that. I mean, the fact that Nigel texted this to the public line, I would assume that this is public information. Information. Anything I should mention here, anything that you send to the TBTL channels, whether it's email, voicemail, text message or whatever, unless you explicitly say that it's not public, I'm going to assume it's public.

[Luke]

And I will put.

[Andrew]

I think. Yeah, I think Nigel would have said specifically if that was not for public consumption.

[Luke]

Nicole says, I started listening to TBTL back in 2008 when I first started working from home after my son was born. Oh, that's them's the early days. Yeah, that's the absolute. I mean, that is the beginning of this whole thing. Let's see. This era was a blur of baby monitors, muted conference calls, and trying to remember what day it is. The show's perfect mix of chaos, humor, humility and comforting friendships got me through it all with a smile and probably a decent amount of sanity intact. That's so interesting, Nicole, and I'm so happy for you that it was helpful. It seems so chaotic, like back in those days. Like you got a baby, you're trying to juggle a career, you're sleep deprived, and then it's like me and Sean making margaritas on the roof on a Friday. It just feels like the opposite of a calming thing. The show's relatively calming now because you and I have low T. But back in those days, it was a lot going on fast forward. And TBTL has evolved from survival tactic to daily ritual. I genuinely look forward to pressing play on the show and it helps anchor my day this fall. I'll be leaning on it again because the same baby is heading off to the Bay City as a proud freshman at Western Washington University. TBTL is old enough to go to college. I know, Nicole, but we flunked the

[Andrew]

sat I was gonna say maybe TBTL should go to college.

[Luke]

Old enough but not admitted to college.

[Andrew]

Yeah, you've heard some of my contributions lately. I think maybe some secondary education would be exact. Wait, secondary education? Is that high school or is that college secondary education?

[Luke]

I don't actually know. That's a good. I mean, I heard the term. I guess I think of secondary education as well. I think of it sometimes when you're in a professional development, like my sister, who's a teacher and principal and administrator, is always doing more development. Is that the same as secondary education?

[Andrew]

Secondary is, I think, like high school. So you have primary education, which is preschool, secondary, which is next. And then higher education would be college,

[Luke]

then tertiary, which is the. My. The class that I'm teaching on YouTube.

[Andrew]

Yeah, it's. You know what I like to say, Luke? I like everything they don't teach you at college. I like to say I went to the school of hard knocks. It's one of one of our favorite things to say around here.

[Luke]

It's really interesting because, you know, my parents didn't go to college. I don't really. My generation of kids in our family were kind of the first college goers, and I have a very, very. What I would say is I do not think that college is an indication of intelligence in any way, shape, or form. I know so many people that are very smart and didn't go to college, and I know some people that went to college that ain't the brightest. I don't have any personal ego tied up in whether or not I went to college. Part of it's because I just went to a state school and it was cheap and it was down the street from my, you know, where my parents lived. And then when I got out of college, I had the kind of jobs where literally no one's ever asked me if I was a college graduate. I don't. Genevieve will be sad to hear this. I don't donate to the University of Washington. I don't like. It's not part of my identity at all. But having said all of that. See, sometimes I say that being said, and then somebody say, having said all of that's the variety that people come to the show for. That all having been said, I do get sometimes some energy, actually. I know somebody who was on the dating apps for a while, and. And she had, I think, two kind of two rules or two things that she was kind of looking for. She wanted to be going on a date with someone who was a college graduate and who was not maga. Those were things that were, you know, just like that she felt like that she'd have more in common with someone like that. And she said the amount of just like unhinged messages from non college graduate men that she received that were just furious about that as opposed to just being like, well, this is not the person for me. Let me swipe the other direction. It was like, no, let me let you know how. And I guess all that is to say when I see when someone like back on Facebook when it was like, what's your university or something, it was like School of Hard Knocks. I was like, that's not a person who I'm probably going to have a lot in common with.

[Andrew]

No.

[Luke]

Not because they didn't go to college, but because they seem to be carrying around a lot of energy around that fact, I think.

[Andrew]

And that used to be something on like, I think we would see that more often because there is some sort of social media site that in your bio there was like a.

[Luke]

Well, Facebook started, you know, as a college thing.

[Andrew]

Yeah. So maybe that was it. And so people would be like, school of Hard Knocks, which I actually think we miss an opportunity to put School of soft knocks

[Luke]

profile tbt l a thon 18 school of soft knocks.

[Andrew]

That's definitely the school.

[Luke]

I think knocks don't get softer than.

[Andrew]

No, they don't.

[Luke]

Than here at old tbtlu. So Nicole is sending this baby off to college, which is just incredible that this thing has been going on the whole time that this person has been growing up. Nicole says all my thanks to Luke, Andrew and John for the courage to ask the tens to support TBTL independence and all of the hard work you put into the show. Here is to 4,000 more.

[Andrew]

Thanks.

[Luke]

Well, Nicole, thank you. Thanks for hanging with us for 17 years and really good luck to your kiddo. You know, Addie went to Western. I obviously lived in Bellingham. I'm a big, big fan of that place. And I'm hoping that your kids can

[Andrew]

have a great experience. I just worry that the partying that goes down at that wonderful antique mall, I just wonder, like, is that a distraction for students in that part? Because I think. I'm not kidding. I think I haven't been to Bellingham since you lived there, but I think about that antique mall a lot. That was a happy place for me.

[Luke]

They're partying, but they're all there. But they're just. The good news is you can only turn a Victrola up so loud. Yes, they're partying, but it's in the era of 1905. So it's a Victrola. They're drinking sarsaparillas out of flutes for some reason.

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Luke]

And it's keeping it pretty tame, actually. So anyway, Nicole, thanks again. We appreciate you. Maestro, on your mark, on your mark.

[Andrew]

Get set, get set now.

[Luke]

Ready, ready, go. Everybody rattle dazzle. It's Joseph McIntyre in Atlanta, Georgia, our second dazzling donor who's been donating a dazzling amount of dough. And now we thank them. Joseph says, I'd like to take advantage of the offer of donor message clemency to offer my criminally late submission. Joseph, I believe what we offered was. Well, first of all, clemency is just a. That's a standing offer. But what we really offered was you don't have to do it. We offered you not having to feel bad about any timing on this because the very fact that you're donating to the show is absolutely critical. That's the thing that you're doing for us.

[Andrew]

I'm doing a little the air sign of the cross, like the priest does at the end of confession. You are absolved of all sins.

[Luke]

I saw the US World cup team coach who. Have you noticed this? Have you seen. I don't know if he's going to hear this, but I have a buddy named Seth who I went to high school with and he's out in the Midwest now, but he tunes in occasionally. And he and I were texting about the World cup the other day and I had just been having this thought which was the coach of the U.S. team for the World cup is a dead ringer for the actor Russell Crowe. He has the same hair. He doesn't wear coach outfits. He wears like a collared shirt that you might go on a brisk hike wearing. He doesn't wear like a three piece suit or like athletic. Those are the things that these coaches wear, right? They either wear like a suit or they're dressed like they could go play in soccer.

[Andrew]

I didn't know they wore suits in soccer.

[Luke]

Yeah, some of them do, particularly a lot of the European countries. This guy looks exactly like Russell Crowe. And I was just thinking that. And then Seth goes, why is Russell Crowe coaching the team? And then like three days later I see some meme going around that's like 50% of Americans think Russell Crowe is coaching the US men's team. He's such a dead ringer anyway. I saw that guy cross himself right before the game started. He didn't know he was on tv. He was just, you know, they're just showing it. There's the US Coach, whatever his name is, and he's just doing this. He's just like crossing himself. And it just like it was very humanizing. I mean, that's not a worldview that speaks to me in any way that I think is material. But I just thought like, this guy wants this to go so well that he is willing to ask dream Jesus Christ to help him with.

[Andrew]

Is he Argentinian, by the way? I am. I don't.

[Luke]

Somewhere he's from somewhere else.

[Andrew]

Okay, I follow. I don't follow this at all. I have no idea what he looks like. I haven't watched.

[Luke]

Well, imagine Russell Crowe.

[Andrew]

Now I know what he looks like. Yeah. But I heard a little clip of him on the radio today and I noticed I didn't accent, so I was like, oh, the American coaches or the Team USA coach or whatever you call it is not born and raised in the U.S. i take it.

[Luke]

Yes. His name is oh, the AI overview. The U.S. men's National Team is coached by Maurizio Pochettino. While Oscar winning actor Russell Crowe does not coach the team. He's become a viral Internet sensation during the 2026 World cup due to his striking resemblance to Russell Crowe.

[Andrew]

Well, there you go.

[Luke]

Yeah. And then it goes on to explain the doppelganger phenomenon. None of this is relevant to Joseph McIntyre's message and I apologize for that. He says, thanks to John, Andrew and Luke for another wonderful year of entertainment and comfort. I listen on my bike commute and the length of the route I choose depends entirely on how long the show is.

[Andrew]

Wow, interesting.

[Luke]

This is really. Joseph. I feel so seen by this. I'm. For whatever reason I've been, for the last year or two, I've been in a really big listening to talk content while I go on my runs mode. I, you know, if I'm training for something really long, maybe I get more into music. Certainly if I'm running a half marathon, I would be listening to music. But I use talk. Well, not talk radio, but like podcasting, you know, Chris's show and Pod save and Ezra and things like that. I use those shows as a decision, helped me make the decision of where I'm gonna run, how far I'm gonna run if I got a full hour. Like David Sedaris was interviewed by Dan John Levitt for the Pod Save America universe. It wasn't actually pod save. It was just a conversation with the two of them. It was like an hour or something. I was like, I could climb a mountain in that hour, I could do anything that is going to give me so much power because I'm going to be so distracted because I love David Sedara so much in those conversations. So I get it, Joseph. This kind of plotting things based on your listening and how that might impact your, I don't know, energy levels. Joseph says middle age has significantly slowed my metabolism. Every Badlands is a kindness to me. I'm overjoyed to donate and I'm lucky to be able to. I was listening to y' all talk about nationalism on the show the other day and thinking about Imagined Communities, which was a formative book for me as a much younger person. There's a section where Anderson says the common experience of reading the morning paper allows you to imagine other people doing the same without you knowing them. And that's how I feel about tbtl. A community where even though life's vagaries have kept me from actually knowing other tens, I can picture all of the tens smiling along with me. We just need an army and a currency that got nationalistic very quick at the end.

[Andrew]

But I could work on that. Wait, we have some coins. We have the TBTL coins that we gave out several years ago.

[Luke]

Yeah, we'll start there. That's a really interesting way to. I'm not familiar with that book, but that's an interesting way to describe this shared experience. I've had like 5% of that on the other day. I guess it was yesterday morning when I showed up at Becca's house. So I get the New York Times, but they won't deliver it here. And bizarrely, it is equally, if not more affordable for me to take home delivery of the New York Times or the full physical newspaper to get the digital stuff. I'm sure that's gonna end at some point and then I'm gonna be paying like a billion dollars a month.

[Andrew]

You gotta keep an eye on that.

[Luke]

I should actually check on that. Well, now I'm screwed though, because what I did was started sending the paper to Becca's house because she lives in Portland and they do deliver the New York Times there. They were mailing it to me. So like on Wednesday I would get the physical copy of the time.

[Andrew]

Yeah, like Hemingway in Italy or whatever. Reading the week old US newspapers and loving it, by the way. I think about that a lot.

[Luke]

Time shifting. He was the originator.

[Andrew]

Right.

[Luke]

But so I said, well, this is kind of by Wednesday. I've, you know, sort of moved on. And so I love. We've talked about this endlessly. I love the Experience of reading the New York Times on the Sunday that it arrives. It's just. Anyway, so now I'm having it sent to Becca's house. And she loves it. Cause she's like, reads like literally like reads through the like book reviews and stuff, does all the puzzles and the stuff and reads the book review. Like she's a completist with it. So it's better, it's going there. The problem is now once they jack the rates up on me, am I gonna turn the spigot of her getting the New York Times off? I don't know. But I was walking to her place and I walked by a different apartment building because she lives in this area of the south waterfront of Portland, has a bunch of these big kind of high rise apartment buildings. And there was someone else who had the New York Times delivered sitting outside the apartment building waiting for them to get it on Sunday morning. And I knew that wasn't the one that was going to Becca. But I literally just thought, like, I connect with that person. Like, I just thought like, whatever's going on with that person, I'm gonna. I like them. Like I felt connected to whoever in this gigantic apartment building that wasn't even Becca's building had gotten the New York Times delivered to them. And maybe that's like snooty of me. Maybe it's because I didn't go to the school of hard knocks. But like, I felt this. I don't know if that would be technically fall under the, the. The sort of title of imagined communities, but I just kind of was like, hey, whatever is going on in that person's life, the fact that they're paying for this newspaper, they're having it physically delivered, they're going to be sitting around reading it later today. Presumably. I was like, I'm into that person's program.

[Andrew]

I have been getting a glimpse of the Sunday Seattle Times in an interesting way. When I'm volunteering on Sundays and handing out food in the Roosevelt neighborhood, there's a woman who will often bring a hot dish, right? And she brings it in this sort of flat. It's in a tray. It's an aluminum disposable tray, whatever kind of casserole or whatever she made that day. But then to keep it warm during transport, she puts it in this flat Amazon box. And I'm being specific about this because she was dropping off the boxes and we would just throw it away at the end. And she said, this is my last Amazon box and it's the perfect delivery vehicle for this. Could you guys start saving the box and get it back to me? I'm like, absolutely, or she'll just take it back with her. But. So this casserole dish, aluminum pan or whatever is in this box, but then wrapped in newspaper or sort of, like cushioned by some newspaper around it. And I. It's now, I realized the other day that it's actually the day of newspaper, and sometimes it's the sports section. So I actually get to, like, I'll look at it. I'll be like, oh, like this. There's something so satisfying about, like, grabbing a newspaper and being like, what? First of all, what's the date on this? And then realizing it's today's date, and then seeing, like, Munoz celebrating on the mound or something like that. You're like, oh, it's like the newspaper.

[Luke]

It's like, piggyback system effective. And that's like the Truman. But Dewey beats Truman, right?

[Andrew]

Yeah. Right.

[Luke]

It's like a misprint.

[Andrew]

Yeah, Right. So anyway, I. You know, we have a subscription to the Seattle Times, but we do not have a subscription to the physical newspaper. And honestly, I know I wouldn't use it. My eyes are getting to the point where it's easier for me to read things digitally anyway, where I can just sort of adjust, like, the. The printer if I need to or something like that. That makes it sound worse than it is. I'm just so used to it that if I'm holding a newspaper, I got to, like, kind of hold it a very certain way. So I'm looking out at the bottom of my len. The lighting has to be nice or whatever. And so I don't think I would want to get the physical newspaper anymore. But I still love the idea of it. I love touching it.

[Luke]

Well, that's the thing. When I'm at Becca's, and if it's a Sunday or even a couple days after, what I find myself doing is picking up the paper and reading it in a way that I would maybe not think to go to newyorktimes.com or the New York Times app and scroll around, and I find myself reading articles that I might not click on if it was just the digital version. And, yes, 99% of my new York Times consumption is via the website, but it is. You know, I do miss having that physical thing around because I think it just. I think I was more apt to read more of the paper when I was getting it physically, even though it's more efficient and faster for me just to jump around the website. There's just something different about. For me, about. You know, And I was also like, what do you think, two, three more years of them even printing newspaper? Now, let me put this in perspective. I don't know how many people live in these two apartment buildings, the one next to Becca's and hers, but it's in the thousands and thousands. These are like really large skyscraper buildings. Two New York Times being delivered to, both to one at the other building and one to Becca. So that's how that's working out for the paper. The newsprint version of the New York Times.

[Andrew]

Well, the problem for me online has also become that they're not. Especially for, like, the top news of the day. They're not articles. I know I've said this before, and I know it just sounds like I just sound old and it's not interesting. Maybe I should have just let that. Maybe I should just let this conversation move on. But, like, if I click right now on the top headline, US Eases sanctions on Iranian oil. If I click on this, it's probably not just gonna be an article that was written. It's going to be kind of Twitterfied. Right. It's gonna be like the updates at the top and then a bunch of bullet points. And then you can click more for this. And then it's like 57 minutes ago, this reporter posted this too small graph update in this. And it's like, sometimes you just want to be Hemingway and just read the article as it was published, even if it's a little bit old, and then give us updates at the top or the bottom or whatever. I don't. I do love the New York Times, and I know it has its critics on both sides, but I'm not cr. Critical of the Times, but I am critical of the way that I can't kind of just read a straight article anymore.

[Luke]

Yeah. Whenever I see that, unless it's an A topic that I feel like I'm either following really carefully or, like, way up to speed on. When I see that little live. Yeah, Live red thing, I'm always like, miss me with that. Because it is just gonna be a series of. It's basically tweets. Yeah, that's from the reporters. It'll be like, you know, sam Bankman fried trial live. And then it's just like, he just ate a Pop Tart. Okay. You know, I just want. I. Maybe I'll just back up on the story and figure out why they're mad at him.

[Andrew]

That's where I used to really go to Vox. But I haven't been to VOX in a while. I know that they've had their fair share of some major cutbacks and stuff, so I don't know if that's as good of a resource as it. As it had been in the past, but I know even, you know, our friends who are doing the audio stuff over there. That's one of my favorite things about vox, is, like, if I need read up into something, you know what I mean? Like, that's. That's a great place to go.

[Luke]

Is there. Is that a paywall type of deal, though? I'm guessing it didn't. What I read at vox, I'm always very. I always like their reporting and their writing a lot. Like, I think they have really good people over there.

[Andrew]

I don't think it's.

[Luke]

The Atlantic is the one that I can't. I love the Atlantic, but it's just, like, it's just outside of my. Like, it's just. It's. It's on the bubble. And it fell off for me because I'm already paying so much for the New York Times and the Seattle Times and the Daily Colombian and the Daily

[Andrew]

News and the Oregonian and the New Yorker. I know you get. I. We get the Atlantic now, but I think we get the Atlantic because for some reason, Genevieve either let her New Yorker subscription lapse. I think it was. I think it was too much. I think it was one of those things where the. The New Yorker was arriving too often and Genevieve wasn't reading it. And she said, well, and she does like the Atlantic Monthly. She interned there for a while way back in the day. And so she's got a connection to it. And so I think that she at one point made the decision. Well, I'm not. I think it was because she wasn't keeping up with the New Yorkers that she went to the Atlantic.

[Luke]

Yeah, I got. You know, the New Yorker is Conde Nast, and I just got some little. Somehow, for whatever reason, it get paid. It gets paid through PayPal. For me, like, at some point when I was trying to, like, set up my account. God know. God only knows. What does the drop say? The last things. God only knows.

[Andrew]

Our journey to God only knows where. Is that what I'm thinking?

[Luke]

Yeah. The journey to God Only knows Where led me to somehow have PayPal be my thing with Conde Nast, which, to be honest with you, is kind of a good idea, because PayPal is keeping assiduous notes on everything. If I'm paying for something out of my, like, normal checking Account it is lost in the sauce. Love it or hate it, it appears to be another irreversible step along mankind's journey toward God only knows what. That's my dude. That's my boy. Ted Koppel.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Luke]

So I got signed up on PayPal, which, again, is kind of like, actually a good thing, because, well, what it was, was I was like, you paid Conde Nast? It does it yearly. And it was a shocking. It was a couple, like, a few hundred bucks. And then I went back to PayPal to see how much I've paid Conde Nast for the New Yorker over the last, like, five, ten years. Thousands into a thousand of dollars.

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah.

[Luke]

Because you think it's a couple hundred bucks a year, and I'm doing this for five years. That's a thousand right there.

[Andrew]

Like.

[Luke]

And I love the New Yorker. And again, I read it on my phone a lot. I read the physical copies pretty often. And then I also listen to a lot of the content, so I'm getting my money's worth. But, like, there was something breathtaking about that number. Like, if you said to me, what would you like to spend twelve hundred dollars on the last six years of the New Yorker or something? I'd be like, debts. No, I wouldn't. But I guess I have.

[Andrew]

I'm looking for. There's something interesting about. Well, there's a lot of interesting things about Harper's Magazine, but I had a subscription. Yeah. And the thing is, the Harper's is something that I used to buy, you know, I mean, back in the. When I was, like, you know, kind

[Luke]

of fresh out of college news or something.

[Andrew]

Recently I did. Yeah, that was like, maybe. That was actually like, probably a year ago or something. But, like, back in the day when I was like, you know, young, fresh out of college, bopping around Boston a lot, I loved having a Harper's with me. And so I would buy it, you know, somewhat.

[Luke]

Harper's Index.

[Andrew]

Somewhat. Yeah, exactly. Love the index. Love. Whatever.

[Luke]

It's like Lewis Lapham's notes.

[Andrew]

And so I would read that. I remember taking one to the beach one time and trying to read the most, like, just tedious article about economics and just being like, what am I doing here? But anyway. But anyway, I do love Harper's. And then there was some deal that came along, I think for some reason, I was talking with Barbara Bogave about something, and she's like. And she wanted me to read something in the archives, and I realized, oh, you can get a subscription to Harper's and have it come to your house for almost nothing. I mean, it was so unbelievably affordable. And it gave you access to their, what, hundred year archives or something like that. Like they've digitized everything by Gabriel Garcia

[Luke]

Marquez, 100 Years of Archive.

[Andrew]

And I liked it, but it did start to pile up too much. And so I'm like, I'm going to cancel this or whatever. And boy, did they send me, like I was getting like physical envelopes in the mail that would say, like, what have we done wrong? Or I guess this is it. Like, they were just putting like the most like drastic kind of language y guilt trippy stuff. It says, like you can get. You can get it for. Basically, if you buy it and get it delivered, you can get it for about $3.33 per issue. And here's where I'm going with this. I let that lapse. And then you mentioned maybe a year ago or something, I was at Bulldog News in the university district of Seattle, kind of cool old school coffee shop and magazine place. And I am looking for it now. But I think the COVID price was $15 for a magazine. And I'm not criticizing them. Like, Harper's is not, you know, getting money every which way. You know what I mean? Like, I will pay $15 for the occasional Harpers because I want them to be around for another hundred years. There's nothing like them. And it's very special. And if anything, I feel bad for maybe letting my subscription lapse, but it is incredible. And it also just speaks to the, you know, the value of the dollar these days and everything. But it is pretty incredible to just buy a magazine and not a super, super glossy one, not. Not like a quarterly that's super thick with like the spine on it or whatever, but like a magazine for $15. That's pretty incredible.

[Luke]

There is an argument for that, that you will then treasure that Harper's and you will actually read all of it. Because think about when we used to get. When I used to ride my bike to silver platters to buy a CD with my 15. I think it probably came in at around the same amount too, where I was living, maybe my $15 or something that I was paying for a CD and like to tell you that I treasured that thing that I read the liner notes that I learned every song.

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Luke]

You know, I don't have that relationship with music anymore. So I don't know. I mean, maybe there. Maybe if you would have bought that Harpers, that would have been the best Harpers you've ever Read. Because you would have read every.

[Andrew]

I did buy it. I did buy it. I don't know how much I. I don't know how much I dug through. Definitely, like all of the short stuff at the beginning, like you say, the index and stuff. I can't remember what the. The thing about it was. This was like. I know this was a long time ago, actually, because it was near the beginning of Trump's second term. And I remember the bottom headline. I think sometimes they have like a headline at the top, but then they'll have like kind of a big bottom headline or something on the COVID of it. And it was just something like, why we must impeach Trump now. And it was. I remember it was.

[Luke]

Well, sort of.

[Andrew]

But it was like. I found it to be depressing because it was at the beginning of the second term and it was kind of like there was so much else going on with the atrocities and everything that were being perpetrated by him and his administration early on. And I was in the middle of Doge stuff and all of that. And it was also new for the second time, sort of. And it seemed like such a first term headline. Sort of. I know it sounds crazy, but I almost didn't. I didn't like the idea of reading this on the bus or something, something like that, which is weird. Like, nobody's looking at the bottom headline of the magazine that I'm reading on the bus. But there was just something that seems so feeble about it. Like, we're talking about impeachment here after already being impeached during the first administration. And then like, what's going on? It was almost sort of like.

[Luke]

And also they have the House and Senate, so.

[Andrew]

What are you talking about? Yeah, and I didn't even read it. So, I mean, listen, I know whoever wrote not just that article, but that headline is like a thousand times smarter than me. I probably should have just read it. But at that moment, I just remember being like, we're just going for impeachment again here. Like, he just got reelected and we have Elon Musk in the White House grinning with blood on his teeth, just like, kind of like. I just didn't get that.

[Luke]

We have taken down the obvious manner. The only thing that will actually bring him low, a reflecting pool, paint job, peeling up. That's the only political gravity I think he's ever faced. By the way, the headline story of Harper's magazine right now, harpers.org if I can use a swear. Happy fucking Birthday and Exhausted America turns 250.

[Andrew]

I said you didn't.

[Luke]

You didn't miss any of that pitch, Harper. Feel the same way. We're doing, you know, we're doing a special like Livewire 4th of July show, which, you know, shows do, because it's basically a chance for us to run some clips and stuff and take a week off. But we've all been talking about how complicated it is to, you know, to do stuff around the topic of the 250 and also 4th of July and celebrating the founding of America or anything because of how so many people feel about the country. But. So, yeah, go with happy fucking birthday, though.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And is it a. It's kind of funny because I was thinking about. I was sort of thinking about intro tape. Somebody sent me some funny intro tape that I think was used way back in the day that I was thinking about rolling out for the fourth of July. Kind of thematically, I think we have been for the past several years using Joe Dirt, talking about all the options.

[Luke]

Oh, dude. But the names of those fireworks. Never not funny to me.

[Andrew]

But is who scared do screw don'ts. Isn't July 4th potentially on a weekend this year? Yes, it is. It is on a. It's on a Saturday. So we won't actually even be doing a show on July 4th.

[Luke]

Well, I count July 3rd as the holiday, so I get to play my I'm not even supposed to be here drop.

[Andrew]

Okay, sounds good.

[Luke]

We're going camping.

[Andrew]

Oh, yeah.

[Luke]

And I are going camping down on the Oregon coast for the 4th of July weekend, which will be fun and something I haven't done in a while. So.

[Andrew]

Nice, I think. No joke. I think that. So Hannah and I, because of travel schedules and everything, we have to, like, kind of double up on some recordings for our spotless podcast. And like, we're trying to figure it out. And I'm like, well, we got to do two shows on one of these days. You know, we. When we sit down to record on a set, we usually record on Saturdays and we only do it once every two weeks. So usually Hannah and I will spend ease. I mean, easily 45 minutes, if not an hour, just chatting before the show. You notice, like, to work with me.

[Luke]

Oh, yeah. No, I didn't mean that as like, that's your thing. I just mean you and I. You and I very often will do it. And we're both. We're both. We're both contributing.

[Andrew]

Yeah, we are both show.

[Luke]

Show that will go on for way

[Andrew]

longer than we and you and I talk every day. Every day.

[Luke]

We do the show and sometimes text each other.

[Andrew]

Exactly. And stuff. So. So Hannah and I, we haven't talked in two weeks, so then we'll want to catch up and we'll do this. I'll just be doing a mic check. But then the mic check is. Did you see that game? And, like, what is with this piggyback system? And then next thing you know, you're talk roads and you're talking about, you know, walkable. Like, whatever. Like whatever. We need to, like, kind of foam off sometimes, as you say. So the whole recording, I mean, honestly, with spotless especially, it's. It. We don't have, you know, we have whatever the opposite of huge is in numbers. And so it truly. If we're not enjoying doing it, if it's not a reason for she and I to get together every couple of weeks virtually and just sort of have our friendship through this podcast, there's not a huge. There's certainly no financial incentive for us to do investment. We would save some money if we canceled it. So all that is say I'm. All of that is to say I'm. I like doing that. But it's sometimes a time investment on a Saturday, which during the summer month starts to feel like, oh, my gosh.

[Luke]

Like, literally, when you got your Sunday pop up.

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah.

[Luke]

And you got pole saws on.

[Andrew]

The way the pole saw came. I got. The pole saw is still in the box. I haven't. This weekend was so busy. I have not had a chance to pull it out yet. But at some point, and this weekend. Well, this. I know. I guess it's not this weekend I'm doing spotless, but the weekend after that is Saturday the 4th. We're going to be recording two spotlesses, I think, so that's like a huge chunk of the day. And that is July 4th. When I said to Hannah, I'm like, I mean, does it matter that it's a holiday? And she's like, it certainly does not to me, because I don't know, like, what are we going to do? Go out with, like, flags and. And sparklers? It's tough. Like, I don't know.

[Luke]

It's tough, but it's also. I'm sorry, I mean.

[Andrew]

No, no, go ahead, say what you're gonna say.

[Luke]

Well, it's. It's tough, but it's also. I mean, I've been thinking about the American flag so much, and. And you see people that are flying it upside down in the distressed thing. And we've talked about this, too. It's like It's a real bummer to me that I feel like in a certain way, actually, in small ways, I see people reclaiming the American flag a little bit. And when I say people, I mean people that are not maga. People that are not just putting it out. Be like, America, love it or leave it. I feel like there's. And I've talked to people about this where it's this feeling of, like, hey, I'm also an American. I also love of what this country could be. And, like, the idea that, like, the only people that get to fly the American flag or, I don't know, use it in imagery, are people who, you know, think that you should never question anything about. Like, if you question anything about America, then. Then you're not a real American and you shouldn't fly the flag. It's just like, it's a bummer that that's been taken away, in a way from a bunch of people who like the idea of, again, loving this country, or at least loving what it could be. It's a bummer that that's been totally taken away. And I don't know if the answer for all of us is to just, like, sit on our hands. I actually don't know what the answer is. And you can also hear my voice is reaching. Much like Andrew's patience with the United States, it's reaching the end of the line. I know a guy whose voice is at his limit.

[Andrew]

Well, here's my take on this. Well, here's my. Here's the thing. It's getting near the end of the show, and this is way too heavy of a conversation to bring up here. And I know that you do. Papa Lozenge, you have livewire, and I am am sincerely worried about your voice, but I will continue my thought here. And if we need to sort of end this conversation somewhat abruptly for time, I'm sure it'll come up again. So my concerns with America and the America idea, or not the American ideal, but the idea of what America is, and certainly American exceptionalism, which we all just grew up learning, literally in school, this idea of American exceptionalism, like. Like, my issues with America, when I examine them closely, go back to the founding of the country, to the slavery, to the atrocities that have just kind of. Kind of not gone unsaid, but been glossed over in many ways and are certainly like.

[Luke]

But do you think those are glossed over in the circles that we move in and the people that we read? Or do you mean in culture?

[Andrew]

But I'm talking about, like, what is. Is here. Here's why I'm going with this. So. So I have, I even think, long before the Trump administration, like, I've had some concerns about this. I mean, I remember being a very young person, like, in high school and having some real issues with this idea of even just having to pledge our allegiance to the flag. Like, I remember being. This is long before I would have even considered myself liberal or progressive. If anything, I would have. I would have maybe even said the opposite. But I always remember just feeling like. Like very weird about that. And, you know, that nationalism, you know, you mentioned at the end of the show yesterday that, like, hey, sorry, Andrew, I'm rooting for the U.S. soccer team or whatever. I don't. I don't root for the U.S. soccer team. The only reason I didn't root for the US Baseball team was because I thought that that particular team was pretty toxic. But, you know, like, I don't have any problem with people rooting for American teams. But it is an interesting sort of thing to think about, the nationalism, but also the story that what I will say, the legend of America that we are taught in public schools is, like, this sort of ideal. And here's where I'm going with this. When I am in a baseball game, especially these days, me and one of my friends that I often go to games with have a little system of just trying to make sure we're not in our seats for the national anthem, because I really don't want to stand there and pretend like everything is okay and salute this country, especially in this way that feels like you'll be sort of like making a big deal of it if you don't stand for it, but then also resenting that. So we just have a system where we just kind of always make sure that we're out in the concourse somewhere shopping for some beers or hot dogs or hats or something like that, so that we don't necessarily participate in that. Yeah, exactly. Spend money. But I'm also not trying to make a big deal of it. I'm not trying to, like, I'm not taking a knee or trying to engage with the people behind me about what the American ideal is. But I thought it was interesting that while I was doing this exact thing at the baseball game the other day, I happened. Actually, maybe it was before the anthem, but I'm walking around the park by myself, and twice I passed this guy who is a guy. I'm gonna put him around somewhere between my age and maybe 10 years older than me, white guy, just Very like kind of Seattle coated. He's wearing a Mariners baseball cap, but it's the new Steelhead logo. And for folks who don't know, this new Steelhead unis are a throwback to the Negro.

[Luke]

He's wearing a Negro Tom Sharpling Best show T shirt.

[Andrew]

No, he's wearing a shirt that is actually kind of cool. It's kind of a retro half sleeve kind of jersey kind of thing. Like our TBTL Junior Slugger shirts that we were giving away a couple years ago. But it's like red and blue and I can't tell if it's homemade or not, but in sort of a kind of a bubbly kind of retro Y font. It just simply says, almost like an iron on it simply says, America is an idea. And I'm looking at this guy and I'm just, you know, from everything else I'm seeing from him, I'm just. I pretty sure this guy's probably your typical liberal, white Seattleite guy, right? And I'm guessing that I just had a feeling that maybe he made this shirt or maybe he saw it and liked it. But I was really curious and because I passed him twice. The second time I came so close I was on the escalator near him and I almost.

[Luke]

You've had trouble on those escalators, though.

[Andrew]

I did not. And I did not even meet. Didn't give me any bad feelings or anything. I was deeply curious what he thinks that idea is. And I was like. And I've been thinking about it actually ever since then. And I was like. But wasn't the idea flawed from the beginning? The idea, number one of exceptionalism and also isn't the idea. It seems like the driving idea of America isn't just American exceptionalism as a unit, but also the individual exceptionalism. This idea that, like, we're not all in it together. It's bootstrapping. It's Horatio Elshering. It's this idea of just fierce independence and personal independence. And if that is the idea, I don't know that that is the best idea for a kind of a governing outlook of a group of people that I look at it. We should all be in it more together Now. I was having this conversation with some friends. I tried to tell them the same story I just told you probably about equally as articulately. And. And they said, no, I think of maybe. Maybe the idea is this idea that anyone can come here and be treated equally. And I mean, if that's the idea and we're just not living up to It. That's at least a little bit more palatable to me. I mean, we're definitely not living up to it. And it's definitely a damn lie. Especially when you look at what's going on right now in this country and people being losing their jobs simply in the military, simply for being black or a woman. We are not dealing with a level playing field. But if that is the idea, if this fella said, well, the idea is that everybody can come here and everybody can have a fair shake and it can. No matter what your background is, and it's a melting pot, that's an idea I can get behind. But I don't think that we've ever lived up to it.

[Luke]

I think the T shirt should say America is an ideas.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Luke]

Because that's the thing. Yes. If you have to pick one idea and you pick the one that involves, you know, might making. Right. And a country that was founded on, you know, this by a bunch of people that didn't want to pay taxes or didn't want to, you know, be told what to do. And the other, like. I understand what you're saying, like, that there are a lot of elements of the founding of America that are like, basically stuff that if somebody was pushing that politics now, I wouldn't agree with it. And yet it's the founding of this country in certain ways, or at least the early times in this place. But I also think there's a lot of other ideas that America can be and is. You know, like, you were like the idea that people could come here from anywhere. The idea that. That, you know, out of many, one. You know, so I. To me, it's like, I. Yes, there are some. There's some baggage with this country and there's some baggage with the founding of it. And, and, and. And the idea of American exceptionalism, all that stuff. I feel like that's pretty well debunked amongst the people that we kind of run with, you know. But that being said, like, I guess I just. I wanna. First of all, I don't know what the alternative is. You know what I mean? Like, we just disband the country. You know, like, we take no joy in the community that is this place. You know, in certain ways, I guess I hope that what we can do is embrace the ideas that are the good things about this place. And there are some good things. I think that's also a danger is to fall into a trap where thinking there's literally not one good thing about America or this place. And it's certainly not perfect. And it feels like it's in its darkest moments of my lifetime. But, but, but I also kind of feel like there are, I mean, otherwise, for me anyway, to just give in to kind of complete depression around the topic is for me demotivating, you know, for myself. Like, I got to think about, like, there is some good stuff in this country and there are good people and if we can, can find each other and if we can put this thing on track towards what the dream of this place was, at least for some people. That feels like action to me. So, you know, I just. And also I'm probably just a little more, A little more of a kind of a, you know, corn fed, old fashioned, kind of, you know, middle, you know, American kind of dude than you are. At least I wasn't having those thoughts about the Pledge of Allegiance when you were. I now totally have those thoughts. Like I find the Pledge of Allegiance completely weird. And the fact that you make kids do that is insane to me. I mean, it's totally insane. So, you know, you tend to get to these ideas before I do, I think sometimes. But yeah, I don't know.

[Andrew]

And you said, you know, what's the alternative, being depressed all the time? And like, I don't think.

[Luke]

Well, no, I didn't say the alternative is being depressed. I meant getting rid of the country. Is that the alternative?

[Andrew]

Yeah, but. And I do, I guess for me, I don't think that I am depressed about certainly my life or the opportunities I've been given and all of the things that go along with, with that, that you and I try to acknowledge as much as possible. But I also don't know that I gotta, like, what's the famous. What's the famous drill tweet? You most certainly don't have to give it to him. Like, I don't know that I need to salute the American flag for that. Like, I can also, I can salute my leaders here in my local community for, you know, like, you know, there are various.

[Luke]

No one's saying that the flag ever.

[Andrew]

Yeah, so like the idea that. The idea that, you know, like, I'm not saying that you have to go around the world, just live your life being angry at all times. I'm not saying that. But also, like, how much do I have to give it up to the Founding Fathers? How much do I have to give it up to the flag? How much do I have to give it up to these songs that like, sort of celebrate? I guess there's just always something about nationalism, generally speaking, that just Always doesn't sit well with me. And, like, there's something about, during the baseball game recently, when the Mariners were playing the Nationals in D.C. there's this thing going on that I know that you're aware of, Luke, which is way past its prime about a month in, but they're calling it tarps off. And this is happening stadiums all over the country.

[Luke]

I meant to bring that up when it was first going around.

[Andrew]

I'll summarize it quickly. And I know we got to go, but basically, parks all across the country,

[Luke]

we're doing it at the frog jump, right?

[Andrew]

Yeah. I would assume tarps very, very on. There'll be, like, a couple of guys or a group of guys who will, like, go find some sort of empty section of the ballpark and, like, take off their shirts and start rooting really loudly and, like, whip their shirts over their head. And then slowly throughout the game, more and more people keep joining them and taking off their shirts. And then by the end of the game, you just have this. This. This whole section of people that are. It's always the nosebleeds. Yeah. In the nosebleeds, usually like in the glare of the sun whipping their shirts. But they will lead chants, and they really. You can really hear them on the radio and TV broadcasts. Even when the broadcasts sometimes clearly, intentionally are not trying to give them more gas anymore. I feel like they were celebr. And I think everybody's over it a little bit, but you'll hear chants. And one of the cool things is because they have this, because they're all in the same place and leading these chants, they can take over what the ballpark sounds like, essentially, so their chance win the day. And so when they were saying, like, f the Mets or something, like, you could actually hear the swears on the broadcast.

[Luke]

They're a plurality. They're exactly the reason Donald Trump has power. Not them specifically, but it's like there's not more of them than other people in the stadium, but they're the most number of people that are doing the same thing.

[Andrew]

Yes, exactly. And so, anyway, all that is to say I heard this on two different Nationals broadcasts. One when the Mariners were there, and then I don't know if the Royals or the Orioles or somebody was there after. And I happened to be listening to the game, but that crowd of shirtless men were chanting very loudly, usa. Usa. You know, that chant. And I just realized, like, I get such a negative. I get, like, I almost have a. I almost have the reaction you have to a motorcycle Racing by. Yes. The chanting of a bunch of mostly white men chanting usa, USA Hurts my nerves.

[Luke]

Yeah, I get it. Yeah. I mean, it's not my favorite thing either because, I mean, and the other thing about that though too is there's an assumption behind what their intention is. And I think the assumption is correct. But like, we don't know what that. Technically speaking, we don't know what that person who's chanting USA with their shirt off, what part of the USA they're celebrating. They're probably not celebrating the Obergefell decision to codify gay marriage. That's probably not what they're yelling usa, USA over. But we don't know the assumption, and again, I think we're probably right is they're just thinking like, USA kicks ass.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Luke]

And that's such a kind of general dumb, you know, thing that it just kind of like it just, it's, it's not very nuanced and it's just a very flattened out view of the world, unfortunately.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And also this is happening around World cup time, so it could be World cup influenced, honestly. You know, when I was at the game on Friday night, the US Team had just beat Australia. Oh, yeah.

[Luke]

How was that going down there?

[Andrew]

Oh, it was a lot of all that. It was a lot of fun. I knew. Was it crazy?

[Luke]

Could you like, could you get to the stadium and stuff?

[Andrew]

I, you know, I, I think I said this to you on the show on Friday or maybe I've just told people since I went to the game. But like, you know, my reputation is not necessarily to have fun, but I like being around other people who are having fun and, or watching people have fun. And while I'm not into the World cup stuff at all, and also I'm not into crowds. I loved getting off the bus in Pioneer Square, which is maybe, I don't know, you walk home like half a mile through Pioneer Square to get to the ballpark and the scene was bumping. I mean, one of the first things I saw when I got off the bus was just a group of, I'm going to say 10 people in their, maybe in their 20s or something like that in this big circle, like just trying to keep the soccer ball up in the air. Would they have cups in their hands like people are? The entire area was just a big party. But it wasn't a mess. It wasn't. It was just, just, it was so cool to vibe off of other people's energy, which is what I am as

[Luke]

an M, and then just roll into another ref Schneider master class.

[Andrew]

Oh, my goodness gracious. Another. Another. I mean, that piggyback situation.

[Luke]

Absolute rough. Schneider.

[Andrew]

But anyway, yes, Schneider making copies. I. I really loved the energy of Saddle on Friday night. It was really cool. And. Well, and, you know, it was a nice.

[Luke]

And if we can.

[Andrew]

If we.

[Luke]

I might have. I think I might have mentioned this on Friday or something, too, so. Or maybe Thursday. But again, not that I feel like my job is to be the Hopium dealer of the show at all times, but these stories. Oh, I did mention this, but, like, the stories of these local communities that have really embraced the teams from other places is just so heartwarming to me. I mentioned Lawrence, Kansas, and I believe the team was from Algiers. And then I saw this guy on TikTok, some. A guy from, I'm not sure what part of Europe, but he was in the US for the game, and he said. Said. He said, basically, we Europeans, he goes, we kind of owe America a bit of an apology because we have just been roasting your asses. And you guys have been so nice to us here.

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Luke]

There's a human element that is, like, it's really hard to be mean and rude to somebody for no reason, like, person to person, you know? And, like, I. Listen, if I lived in Europe and I saw what was going on here, I would think, what is wrong with those people? But it turns out, you know, 49% of us are not okay with it. And even of the 51% that were okay with some version of it, they also might, you know, buy. I'll give you a weird example. And then, really, we can wrap this up, because Becca and I were texting about this this morning. We went to a winery yesterday when we were doing the grand poodle switch, because every. Every year, poodles come to wine country. And we were at this very beautiful winery, and they had this incredible view of the valley and with these beautiful Adirondack chairs. And the group of people we were with, which was Becca's brother and his wife and, like, her family and stuff, they wanted to take a group photo. And there was only one other group of people out in this area. The employees were totally slammed. So I was like, who can we get? And there's a guy that's just wearing a T shirt that says, like, if you don't stand for the cross, it's literally like, you're basically your worst nightmare. I mean, and my worst nightmare, like, whatever it was, it was like. Like, I. You know, I stand for the cross, I kneel for the flag. Or something like that. And it was just like vice versa.

[Andrew]

I think I stand for the flag and I kneel for the cross.

[Luke]

Oh my God, I've been doing it wrong. This explains a lot of looks I've been getting.

[Andrew]

You were doing that when the woman was mean mugging you with her little

[Luke]

I head stanced flag. Anyway, I backspin for the cross and I head spin for the cross. So anyway, I, it just was one of those things where it was like, you know, like he just was the first guy and I didn't have time to process. I mean if you would have given me 10 minutes, I would have been like, I'm not going to pick the guy that has the kneel for the cross shirt. Like I'll get somebody else. But that was the only table and I just like so sort of accidentally I just turned to myself like, could you take a picture of us? Or actually I walked up to the table, which is kind of awkward to do because you know, before I've said anything, they don't know, am I panhandling? Am I telling them they're being too loud? Like I obviously don't work there. There's this very pregnant pause between hey there, me standing at your table, you do not know me and what I'm about to get into. And they all kind of look up and I said, would you mind taking a picture of us? And the Neil for the cross guy goes, oh absolutely. And he goes, he goes, do you want, he goes, do you want to do it on your phone or you want it on my phone? Which he goes, no, I'm just joking. Like he goes, you know, because the idea was like he would, he would just have a picture of us on his phone and then he made like two or three other like actually pretty funny jokes. Was smiley, was very nice. We took it forever. We had some older people in the group to take the picture, wanted us to check on it, you know. And again it just was like, man, how are you this guy in this shirt? Because you're not the guy, you are not the guy that I thought you were going to be based on the shirt. You know, it's just like such a, it's just weird when you. And so this morning, I forget why. Oh, she, I think Becca texted me the group photo and she said something like, I'm still thinking about the guy in the shirt. Because we were both, we didn't even have a conversation in the car. This was the first this was brought up was this morning via text that we both had clocked this shirt and both probably had the whole journey that somebody like me or Becca or you or Genevieve maybe goes on with that kind of stuff and then had a thoroughly pleasant time taking a picture with him. And I don't have like some large. That's not a. Like we're more similar than we're different. Like, I don't even have a. I don't have a power out to that. It's just weird when that kind of stuff happens.

[Andrew]

Happen. Yeah, definitely. And I don't assume that, yeah, everybody who has a shirt or is some sort of outward look that indicates that they have different political views than me are necessarily going to be rude to me or gruff or. Or see me as the soft little.

[Luke]

You did study at school.

[Andrew]

Soft Knox little wiener. That. That I know I am. Because I do think that people are. People are generally kind. You're right. When you're. When you're one on one with them. And I'm, you know, I'm thinking of several things I want to tell you about. First of all, I'll tell you what, but because we're getting near the end of the show, I'm gonna take a couple of notes here. Number one, I wanna tell you about my first trip to a dog park. Okay. I don't wanna steal all of your dog stories for this week, but tomorrow I might wanna tell you I get

[Luke]

to tell two times as many dog

[Andrew]

stories as you tell, Just so you know. And also, one part of the dog park story kind of ties into this when I was sort of observing one person who seemed like they were different than the rest of us. And I've been thinking about him.

[Luke]

What if we kicked off with that tomorrow? Yeah.

[Andrew]

And also, I want to tell you, and this is more fun, I want to tell you about a moment that I had in the grocery store yesterday where I came so close, I mean, to literally embodying a Dr. Rick Progressive commercial. I mean, in a way that I almost had to bite a leather belt. And then how that ended up working out. If we can try to remember those, I will tell you.

[Luke]

Absolutely. Yeah, we'll put those at the top of the show tomorrow.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Luke]

If they could combine a grocery store and dog park, I think they'd really to have almost everything that you. Almost everything you like in the world. A pole sauce, a pole saw store, a grocery store slash dog park.

[Andrew]

Oh, my goodness. All right, well, we should get out of here for now. I'm sorry I promised you we were going to keep it quicker and I think I'm the one who extended the show.

[Luke]

No, we had to give Joseph the proper ride home in Atlanta.

[Andrew]

And we did.

[Luke]

You're welcome. Cardio. All right, thanks for listening, everybody. We'll be back here tomorrow with more imaginary radio. Hopefully with me a little more in my full voice.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I guess we'll be feel better?

[Luke]

I actually feel fine. My voice just kind of sounds cruddy. But I guess we'll all find out together tomorrow. So we'll see you then. In the meantime, have a great Monday. Take care of yourselves. And please remember, no mountain too tall.

[Andrew]

And good luck to all. Jay. My new film is a mix of action and comedy. It's called McBain let's get silly. Did you ever notice how men always leave the toilet seat out up. That's the joke. The film is just me in front of a brick wall for an hour and a half. It cost $80 million. How do you sleep at night? On top of a pile of money with many beautiful ladies. Just asking. Power out.