Episode #808

Summary

Podcast Summary: TBTL: Too Beautiful To Live – Episode #808

Release Date: May 3, 2011
Hosts: Luke Burbank and Megan McArdle

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1. Introduction

In Episode #808 of TBTL: Too Beautiful To Live, hosts Luke Burbank and Megan McArdle dive into the pivotal event of the day: the death of Osama bin Laden. The episode blends insightful discussions with their characteristic humor, covering public reactions, media portrayals, and personal anecdotes.

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2. The Death of Osama bin Laden and Social Media Reactions

a. Misattributed Martin Luther King Jr. Quote

One of the central topics discussed was a widely circulated quote attributed to Martin Luther King Jr.:

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy."
— Attributed to MLK Jr. [Timestamp: 13:10]

Luke and Megan explored the origins of this quote, revealing that while a similar sentiment exists in MLK’s writings, the specific wording circulating on social media was not actually from him. Jen Andrews, a correspondent from The Atlantic, elaborated on how the misattribution occurred and the impact it had on public sentiment.

b. Public Reaction and Media Coverage

The hosts highlighted the varied public reactions to bin Laden’s death, noting a significant portion of the population was unaware of who he was:

"Yahoo reported that the number one search question yesterday was, who is bin Laden?"
— Megan McArdle [Timestamp: 05:06]

They discussed how media personalities like Jon Stewart and Jimmy Kimmel approached the news with humor, contrasting it with their more measured response on TBTL. Luke shared his appreciation for Stewart’s candidness:

"Jon Stewart's like, yeah, you know what? We shot bin Laden through both of his eyes, and now he lives in a pineapple under the ocean. And I was just like, you, sir, are badass."
— Luke Burbank [Timestamp: 04:34]

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3. Misuse of "Counterterrorism" in Political Discourse

The episode also touched upon the confusion surrounding the term "counterterrorism" in political speeches. Luke recounted an interview with a Republican from Michigan on Morning Edition who repeatedly misused the term:

"He kept saying counterterrorism when he meant either just terrorism."
— Luke Burbank [Timestamp: 09:45]

This misuse sparked a discussion about the clarity and precision in political language, emphasizing how miscommunication can lead to misunderstandings about serious issues.

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4. Team Six and Navy SEALs

The hosts speculated on the likelihood of photos of the Navy SEALs (Team Six) involved in the bin Laden mission being released:

"I would be surprised if the photos are not out within the next six hours."
— Luke Burbank [Timestamp: 24:00]

They humorously debated the public image of these elite forces, imagining staged photos and lighthearted scenarios post-mission. Megan expressed a desire to see pictures of the SEALs:

"I would, however, very much like to see pictures of the Navy SEals."
— Megan McArdle [Timestamp: 25:21]

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5. Charlie Sheen's Touring Performances

Shifting focus, Luke and Megan discussed Charlie Sheen’s performance tour. They debated whether Luke should attend, weighing the potential entertainment against logistical challenges:

"I'm gonna have to go up and buy them from a scalper, which I imagine that they'll be going for less than face value."
— Luke Burbank [Timestamp: 51:07]

Megan and Luke shared their skepticism about Sheen’s performances, referencing mixed reviews and previous tour outcomes:

"He went on stage. He complained about his custody battle. He blamed his pasty complexion on someone named Gabe..."
— Luke Burbank [Timestamp: 51:07]

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6. Listener Emails

The episode featured interactive segments where listeners' emails were discussed.

a. Mariners Game and House Signs

Listener Luke inquired about creating signs for a Mariners game:

"I have two Mariner related questions... is it appropriate for two men in their 20s to make a cheesy sign and hang it over the edge."
— Listener Luke [Timestamp: 60:35]

The hosts encouraged creativity, suggesting humorous sign ideas related to Eric Wedge's evolving mustache.

b. The Office UK Finale Recap

Listener Gray provided a detailed recap of the British version of The Office finale, challenging Luke and Megan's memories:

"David Brent has a blind date with a girl who actually seems to accept him... they kiss."
— Listener Gray [Timestamp: 62:38]

Megan admitted to forgetting these pivotal moments, acknowledging Gray’s accurate summary and reflecting on the emotional depth of the series.

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7. Upcoming Chicago Shows and Event Plans

Towards the end of the episode, Luke and Megan previewed their upcoming live shows in Chicago. They discussed logistics, sponsor mentions, and the excitement surrounding meeting fans:

"We're just busy little beavers getting ready for these Chicago shows because we're gonna make them so much fun for you guys."
— Luke Burbank [Timestamp: 71:07]

They also highlighted opportunities for fan engagement, such as meetups at local venues and promotional offers from sponsors like James Hotel and Chateau St. Michel.

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Conclusion

Episode #808 of TBTL: Too Beautiful To Live offers a blend of timely political commentary, media analysis, humor, and personal interactions. Hosts Luke Burbank and Megan McArdle effectively navigate through complex topics like Osama bin Laden’s death and its socio-political reverberations while maintaining an engaging and relatable tone for their audience.

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Note: All quotes are attributed to the respective speakers with corresponding timestamps for reference.

Transcript

[Luke Burbank]

Any creative person will tell you you gotta go a little crazy to make great art.

[Jen Andrews]

Hamlet 2.

[Luke Burbank]

The Deuce. Correct.

[Jen Andrews]

Doesn't everybody die at the end of the first one?

[Luke Burbank]

I have a device.

[Jen Andrews]

The time machine door. That's the device opens, revealing Hamlet, Gertrude, Polonius, and Hillary Clinton having what appears.

[Luke Burbank]

To be group sex. It's about my troubled relationship with my father.

[Jen Andrews]

But you're doing this at school with the kids, right?

[Luke Burbank]

That's the plan. Stan, what do you think?

[Jen Andrews]

I think that your enthusiasm is remarkable.

[Luke Burbank]

I will take that. I will take it.

[Megan McArdle]

TBTL.

[Luke Burbank]

And we'll take this. How's about a Tuesday afternoon edition of tbtl, the show that's probably too beautiful to live. Psychopathic straight dirty clown. Love straight dirty clown. Oh, man, we have so many adventures, don't we, here on tbtl. This is, by the way, the show that's probably too beautiful to live. I'm your host, Luke Burbank, weighing in at £182. And then Luke Burbank, what is he, like, all of 98 pounds? I wish it would actually be medically problematic. We've got a great show for you on this Tuesday. It's episode 808 in a collector series. Hi.

[Megan McArdle]

This is Luke's mom, Susie, coming tonight on tbtl.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, I finally come to a decision on whether or not I'm going to go watch Charlie Sheen tonight. It's gonna be a night of partying and heavy drinking, or as Charlie Sheen calls it, breakfast. I will give you the full update. Also, you know that quote by Martin Luther King Jr. That's been flying around the Internet and in particular, Facebook, talking about how we shouldn't celebrate too much over the death of bin Laden. Well, it turns out that wasn't really written by Martin Luther King Jr. We will talk to the woman whose spidey sense was first tingling over this from the Atlantic. Her name is Megan McCardle. And also a new segment called Yay, Scott Pelley.

[Megan McArdle]

Yay.

[Luke Burbank]

Yay, boo. Scott Pelley. Here's someone who's only met with I love Jesus, but I drink a little and love and all kinds of admiration. Even more so when I change this little doodad over on the computer so she can actually hear me. Her name is Jennifer Flash Andrews. She's in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Hi, Jen.

[Megan McArdle]

Hi. I just spent the last three minutes trying to figure out what I was gonna do about the fact that I couldn't hear. Hardly. And you just fixed it.

[Luke Burbank]

I'm sorry about that.

[Megan McArdle]

I was like, how professional? How do I. What does a Professional do in this sit.

[Luke Burbank]

See, that was your first mistake. I don't know if you've been on the show before, but that's almost never part of the equation. So, Jen, I know that it was with a certain amount of trepidation that yesterday we embarked on bin Laden coverage day one. But I've got good news for you. We've reached bin Laden coverage day two.

[Megan McArdle]

Great.

[Luke Burbank]

You feel any better about it?

[Megan McArdle]

Well, I feel a lot better today because I didn't get any mean mail. You know what I mean? When I woke up this morning, I kind of opened my email kind of trepidatiously.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah.

[Megan McArdle]

And nobody was like, how dare you?

[Luke Burbank]

I don't think we weren't nearly. Nearly as celebratory as Jon Stewart was.

[Megan McArdle]

No.

[Luke Burbank]

Did you watch the Daily Show?

[Megan McArdle]

Oh, yeah. Why is it was so happy.

[Luke Burbank]

He was on fire. I have to admit, though, it's. It's like I yesterday kept kind of trying to be careful that we weren't sounding overly celebratory about this whole thing. But also, you know, some part of me was, you know, feeling a certain amount of America pride. I didn't know how to exactly feel about it. And then I turn on the Daily show, and Jon Stewart's like, yeah, you know what? We shot bin Laden through both of his eyes, and now he lives in a pineapple under the ocean. And I was just like, you, sir, are badass. I don't even know if I agree with you completely, but just the fact that you're gonna go on there and say that makes you much less of a scaredy cat than I am, because I'm always trying to measure everything, and I don't want to hurt feelings. And being very, very. I have a font, actually, when I email Jen sometimes that sounds exactly like this. I don't know if we should talk about this. So, yeah, we were. We were nowhere near. Nowhere near where Jon Stewart was on this whole thing. But I heard that there were some people who, when this whole bin Laden thing went down, their first thought apparently, was, who's this bin Laden character? There was a tremendous amount of googling of who is Osama bin Laden? Is this true? Yes.

[Megan McArdle]

Yahoo reported that the number one search question yesterday was, who is bin Laden?

[Luke Burbank]

Well, maybe that's because it was on Yahoo.

[Megan McArdle]

Maybe. But I got this screenshot of a list of them, and seriously, this Groitus, who is Osama bin Laden? And why should I care? Astrid, who is Osama bin Laden? Is he famous? Am I the only one who doesn't know who he is. Taylor Grann. I'm probably retarded for asking this, but who is Osama and why is it good? He's dead.

[Luke Burbank]

That's actually not true. I know many developmentally disabled people who totally know who Osama bin Laden is. So that's not even.

[Megan McArdle]

That's a different thing that you don't know this.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, that's completely. That's your own thing.

[Megan McArdle]

You're working with Corey Eastman. Who is Osama and why is it important? We killed him.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, my God.

[Megan McArdle]

Henry Ferber. Who is Osama bin Laden? Is he in a band.

[Luke Burbank]

Now?

[Megan McArdle]

The thing, Ms. Neets. Who is Osama bin Laden anyway? Umal Assa. Who is Osama bin Laden? Someone please explain to me, please. Extra, please.

[Luke Burbank]

This reminds me of a game that I always thought was going to be a bigger hit than it was called, Does Britney Spears Know who Hitler Is? I was trying to launch it on tbtl. Like, it's. It's interesting when you think about somebody like a Jessica Simpson or Britney Spears. And I don't mean to. Let's throw Brendan Fraser in there. I'm not trying to make this just about ladies.

[Megan McArdle]

The guy from American Pie, Sean something. Scott.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, yeah, Sean Williams. Scott.

[Megan McArdle]

Yeah, throw him in there.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah. Although he's been in rehab lately, which I think has given him a lot of time to reflect and maybe read old copies of People magazine. So he may be more up on his.

[Megan McArdle]

He's in his Steve O Phase now.

[Luke Burbank]

Right, exactly. But there are some people. And, you know, it usually ends up coinciding with a certain level of famousness where you've been brought up in such a kind of fame bubble and have just been so ensconced in it that I wonder, do you think that they've heard of Hitler? And that was. I mean, that's a funny idea because it's so preposterous. But this would seem to prove that, at least for these people, if that game were called have they Heard of Osama bin Laden? The answer, as of a couple of days ago, would have been no.

[Megan McArdle]

Right. And it's interesting because, you know, one of the things that we're told over and over and over is broadcasting is to always give context. You know, we're always trying to explain and not just assume that everybody understands, but everybody, from what I can see on the news yesterday and Sunday night, assumed a certain level of understanding when they said that he had been killed. Maybe every once in a while they said the founder of Al Qaeda. But I'm thinking by this list of tweets I've read just here. That wouldn't have been helpful either.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah. Oh, God, are you kidding me? No. They're an Al Qaeda expert. They just don't know who bin Laden is. That would be amazing, actually. I gotta say. And this is classic tbtl, taking any chance to glorify ourselves, but we kind of completely have been crushing it on the. Just on the predictions. A lot of the stuff that we said yesterday on the show I felt like was borne out on the Daily show and Kimmel was making. Kimmel did the thing where he did a side by side of Donald Trump. What Donald Trump did on Sunday night versus what President Obama did.

[Megan McArdle]

Danny said, feel free to compare and contrast.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah. Which we had done on our show. And then they. I think Kimmel also put together just a long string of all of these different newscasters, particularly TV newscasters, confusing Obama and Osama in their conversation. You know, trying to talk about one but mentioning the other. They showed. It was like Geraldo did it. I mean, millions of local newscasters. Which was something that I was in complete terror of yesterday. I felt like.

[Megan McArdle]

Just did not want to be in that montage.

[Luke Burbank]

I was. Because I know that he monitors Cairo closely. So I was. I felt like we, you know, you can, you can say what you want about this as a world event, as a sort of geo. Strategic world event. But. But it was good comedy for us and it really gave us a chance to get out in front on a lot of these different jokes. So I was. I was proud of us over that. Apropos of absolutely nothing. I was listening to Morning Edition today. I was driving in and this guy who's like the head of the, I want to say Intelligence Committee in the House, so he's a Republican from Michigan. He's being interviewed on Morning Edition. I mean, he's one of the top ranking politicians related to this very important and very complex issue. And he kept saying that. He kept saying that. He kept not understanding that counterterrorism means you're trying to stop terrorism. Because he kept saying, talking about Al Qaeda trying to fight us, or he kept saying, now I'm doing a great job of not actually properly explaining what he was saying, but he kept saying counterterrorism when he meant either just terrorism. He kept calling what they were doing counterterrorism. And I was like, I don't think it's counterterrorism. When the bat. And he did it like three times in the interview. I couldn't believe they left it in. It must have been part of the conversation they couldn't do without. But it was the kind of thing where he was saying the opposite thing of what he meant. And I was thinking that may not be a great sign. May not be a great sign for us that the person who's in charge of that committee is not clear on the difference between terrorism and counterterrorism. At least as I understand it, that's the thing that works against terrorism. But there was another.

[Megan McArdle]

I was hoping to hear that they were immediately in meetings to allow us to take shampoo on planes. Yeah, that's what I want that committee doing.

[Luke Burbank]

That was the other thing. That was the other thing that I think Jason Jones, I think he said about. And then Colbert, I believe, or somebody talked about. You know, what I said yesterday was, I feel like the chances of me getting on an airplane without having my junk fondled by the security staff just got a little bit better. And last night, that was one of those shows. That's what they said, too. I think it was. Colbert was talking about not having his privates touched.

[Megan McArdle]

All of the smartest people in the world have the same insights.

[Luke Burbank]

That's right. It helps, too, that I'm now getting the east coast satellite feed of those shows. So I was able to watch them early and then pretend that those were my riffs and then insert them into tbtl. It took me hours, but it was well worth it. There's another bin Laden. Well, kind of, I guess bin Laden related a kerfuffle that's kind of popped up on the Internet starting yesterday. And I know all of you really got these things, too, and maybe some of you put them up and there's no judgment. But there was this quote that was going around. It was attributed to Martin Luther King Jr. And everybody was posting on their Facebook page as a sort of way to say this is how we should really behave in light of the killing of bin Laden. And the quote is, I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one. Not even an enemy attributed to Martin Luther King Jr. I have to say, I saw it 20 to 30 times, and it didn't ever occur to me that it might not actually be Martin Luther King Jr. Because it sounds like something he would say. Anyway, it turns out it actually wasn't really said by him, at least not the part that makes it very, very relevant to the bin Laden stuff. But this came out because of a woman who writes for the Atlantic. Her name is Megan McCardle. She's an editor over there, and we. On the radio show that I do at Cairo, we called her up this morning and asked her about that. And I just want to play a little brief excerpt from that interview. I started off asking her how her spidey sense first started tingling based on this MLK quote.

[Jen Andrews]

What's interesting is that there were actually sort of two versions of the quote that were circulating. The version that I saw was on Twitter, and I saw it. I originally saw it, Twitter, by Stephen Fry. And it was simply this truncated bit that said, I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. And I thought, that's really beautiful. I should retweet that. And then I thought, it doesn't actually sound all that much like Martin Luther King Jr. Like, something just sounded off. But there was a different version that was circulating that was longer, and that's the version that you read. And so what's really interesting is that when people came into my original blog post, because I'd only seen the version on Twitter, they said, you're wrong. It is a Martin Luther King quote. Here's the source. And there are actually two sources. There was a sermon that he gave in 1957, and then a 1963 book called Strength to Love, where he clearly had used, you know, some of his earlier sermon. And, you know, it's here. And the one thing that was missing was the one piece of the quote that I had quoted. But they. What was actually fascinating was that the people really didn't seem to have seen that. They took the quote that they had seen on their Facebook and they just transposed it into my blog post. And even when a lot of people pointed out, well, she's actually just talking about this one sentence, they accused me of having gone back and edited the blog post because I was so sure that they'd seen it. And I think that's a really sort of interesting metaphor for how we transform these quotes in our own lives. You know, they become. It becomes about what we saw, not about what's on the page.

[Luke Burbank]

What's so interesting to me about this, too, is that I. I posted on my Facebook page a link, Meghan, to what you wrote. By the way, we're talking to Megan McArdle. She's business and economics editor for the Atlantic. I posted something that linked to what you had written, and it is now. I mean, there I have all these comments, and people are kind of fighting in the comments section of my Facebook page about whether all that matters is the sentiment. And people seem really. People who have posted it now, posted it previously, are posting apologies on my page for having posted it. But then other people are saying, you shouldn't apologize. This for some reason really touches a nerve for people.

[Jen Andrews]

I think it's really interesting because it turns out that what happened was that a woman named Jessica Dovey, who is a 24 year old teaching English in Kobe, Japan, posted the initial sentiment, with which I agree, and then followed it with a quote by mlk and that somehow got mashed up when people started replicating it on Facebook. And it was interesting to me that so many people, for so many people saying, well, Martin Luther King didn't say this, which was all I said, not, you know, this is bad. And indeed, I'd written a post earlier today where I said something sort of similar in terms of like, it's hard for me to celebrate this. It's been 10 years of kind of sad death and destruction that so many people thought that if it wasn't said by Martin Luther King Jr. That somehow devalued the quote or made it not be true or was an attack on the quote. And in fact, you know, I think it is a very timely, very appropriate thing to have written. And I don't think that it's. It's sort of somehow less true or less valid because it was said by a 24 year old than because it was said by Martin Luther King. It's either true or it's not. And I happen to think it is.

[Luke Burbank]

What did King actually say then?

[Jen Andrews]

He basically, he's written a lot. I mean, the interesting thing is her Facebook follow up says, you know, I'm really sorry that I created this fake quote and I really hope I haven't said anything he wouldn't agree with. And I think that, I mean, when you read what he wrote about loving your enemies, you know, there's a lot of stuff that people did quote that was very close to this sentiment. For example, he said, you know, the point of the story of Exodus is not the drowning of the death of, you know, the drowning of the Egyptian soldiers. And, you know, we shouldn't rejoice in anyone's death or defeat. So he did say things that were very close to this, but they weren't quite, you know, they didn't have the death of thousands and the one enemy. And I think that we did pick up on that because that was how we were feeling today. And you know, sort of admirably we all want to feel more like Martin Luther King, Jr. And so when we felt that he'd said it, we felt closer to him, and we felt some sort of kinship that was important.

[Luke Burbank]

Now, there is a new meme that's popped up, at least in my Facebook comment section, where people are writing quotes like, we can't stop here. This is bat country. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Or maybe my favorite, the problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity. Abraham Lincoln. You've implied anyway, Megan, that you feel if we could get to the substance of this whole controversy for just a moment, that there has been too much inappropriate rejoicing over this.

[Jen Andrews]

So Orwell said that, you know, in 1940, we all fantasized about kicking SS officers, but by the time that was actually possible, it just sort of seem sad. And I think that that was a real thing 10 years ago. I felt powerless, and I wanted to kick back at bin Laden. But at this point, it doesn't seem sort of impressive. It just seems like human life is really frail and it's really easy to take away. And it's not that I think that it was unjust to kill him exactly, but it just doesn't seem like something to be too happy about.

[Luke Burbank]

It ends up being a conversation between the people that are saying, let's not celebrate this, versus the people that are saying, hell's yeah, America. Do you feel that by debunking this a little bit or clarifying it, you're taking away some of the steam from the people who are saying, don't celebrate too hard?

[Jen Andrews]

Oh, I don't think so. I mean, do we really need George Orwell or Martin Luther King to tell us how we should behave in our own time?

[Luke Burbank]

Apparently, a lot of my Facebook friends do.

[Jen Andrews]

I mean, I think there is that.

[Megan McArdle]

Right?

[Jen Andrews]

There's always this temptation to. And I think it goes beyond quotations. Economists talk about this a lot, that there's always this temptation to. People come to you and they say, I want an answer, and they will. It's easy to sort of try to elevate your opinions by attributing them to someone else or by attributing them to science or to, you know. So I think that there's always that temptation to do it, but I don't think it's necessary. I think that, in fact, like, you can say, as I did, I'm not really mad at anyone who celebrated, but I don't feel happy that he's dead, particularly. And I don't feel like this has really made anything better. I mean, the people who died, and I knew more than a few of them because I grew up in New York City, they're still dead. Nothing's changed. You know, he robbed them. And we didn't change that by killing him. And so it was. And when I think about all the other people who've died in the intervening years, both people who deserved it and people who didn't, it's just. It's hard to find this an occasion to be really happy. It makes me more sort of mournful than anything else.

[Luke Burbank]

All right, so that's Megan McCardell of the Atlantic. She was the one who kind of first figured out that this Martin Luther King Jr. Quote that was going around, which, by the way, that wasn't the only one. There was also this comment that was misattributed to Samuel Clemens that he didn't believe in the. Or he never killed a man. But he's read with great interest many an obituary or something, which actually, I guess, is said by Clarence Darrow. It was a big day for things being posted on Facebook pages that were maybe misattributed. But I think the sentiment. I do think the sentiment is actually a nice one, and I tend to agree with it. I mean, it's just what I put on my Facebook page, which is. I'm not saying you're a bad person for. For posting a quote like that misattributed to mlk. You're just probably racist, which. Which started people really going down another whole road with me. But that's okay. I was able to deflect. I was able to draw them out, draw them away from getting mad at the people who had. Who had not done their research on their MLK quote. And I was able to get them to focus their anger on me, because that's what I do, Jen. I'm a giver.

[Megan McArdle]

Yes.

[Luke Burbank]

And I just give and I give and I give. Do you have any. I mean, do you have any.

[Megan McArdle]

Abraham Lincoln quote was fabulous. And nobody laughed. Did you edit out the laughter? Because that was funny.

[Luke Burbank]

There was like a. God, you're such a producer. I can't believe you. I actually did cut that down because there was like another. Some period of talking that was. Seemed kind of to the side of the point. Also, people get really freaked out when I play pieces of tape from that show because there's this deep voice guy in there.

[Megan McArdle]

Oh, yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

Dave Ross. And everyone's like, what's happening to my tbtl? This is a show where no one should be on the radio. This is a show where you don't.

[Megan McArdle]

Have voices for radio.

[Luke Burbank]

No one has a broadcast quality voice. What are you doing putting real broadcasters on there? So I actually, I wanted to play that conversation, though, because I felt like it was. I thought that that Megan McArdle woman sounded incredibly bright and also really measured. I liked what she said. And I thought that for some of our listeners who maybe do have that sentiment that was in that supposed MLK quote, I thought they might like to hear from somebody who tends to agree with them because I thought she made the point very pretty eloquently.

[Megan McArdle]

Yeah. I think that it's unfortunate that we all, and I fall into this too, where we feel like if we can attach Gandhi to it or, you know, Jon Stewart or somebody that we think is great and that we admire, then we feel better about it. Whereas there's no problem if you believe that sentiment. You can say, you know, says me or says Joy, 24 in Kyoto or whomever. But it's funny how we all feel the need, like we have to attach it to some bigger historical or bigger famous person. And I definitely, I fall on the side of things that I think that the world is better going forward that bin Laden is dead. I think it's going to save actual lives, particularly in the Arab world.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, and I don't even think I.

[Megan McArdle]

Totally, totally respect and understand people who hold to that sentiment as well.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, I mean, I don't think that the people that were putting that quote up were saying, we wish bin Laden was still hiding out in this house. I think everyone agrees that even people who are pacifists, I think, generally agree that it's probably better that he's not alive. I haven't found one person who says, I mean, I'm sure there are extreme pacifists and people who are just, you know, trying to make some other sort of point that are saying, no, no, no, I wish he wasn't even dead. I think most people say this is a guy who probably, probably needed to be not alive anymore. But then the question is, should we be running around with our shirts off in front of the Capitol singing the Georgetown fight song?

[Megan McArdle]

Well, like I said yesterday, I think that's my answer to this is a perfectly legitimate phase. I think that you go through a lot of emotions when something like this happens, and I think that you need to allow people to go through the phases that they go through. And part of maturity is that you move through them. You don't get stuck. Hopefully there's not still anybody with their shirt off, screaming usa, usa. Over and over again in front of the Pentagon. Hopefully you move through those phases quickly. If you're a mature adult, you do.

[Luke Burbank]

That today and you will definitely get tased.

[Megan McArdle]

Yeah, the time for that is over.

[Luke Burbank]

And the time for the security guards treating you with kid gloves also completely over. The other big news, well, there's so much big bin Laden news, but the other thing that everyone is talking about today related to the story is a question of if they will release the photos or not of bin Laden. And I would be surprised if the photo's not out within the next six hours, to be honest with you. Whether it's that the Pentagon does it or the CIA or that it just leaks. Because, I mean, for one thing, it sounds like there are a lot of people even in the Muslim world who want to actually see the picture because they're not really. They're not totally convinced. And then I think a lot of Americans want to see it. You, Jen, are not on that list, though.

[Megan McArdle]

No. And I also didn't watch Hussein's execution.

[Luke Burbank]

And I didn't watch it.

[Megan McArdle]

A lot of people did and felt very strongly about it. And, you know, I've been in talk radio a long time and listened to a lot of heartbreaking interviews from Iraqis and it's again, I feel the same way. The world is better, but I did not want to watch that. I do not want to see bin Laden's picture. I take the President at his word. I believe him. I don't need to see it. I would, however, very much like to see pictures of the Navy seals, because I understand they're called the Gang of Six. I know are the ones in Congress, but they're called something Team of Six or something.

[Luke Burbank]

They're called Team Six, but they're also called Devgru, which is a shortened version of some crazy, you know, where they're like, basically they take the toughest guys and then they make them Marines and then don't get mad if you're in one of the other branches, then the toughest of those guys, they're the Navy seals. And then they take the top five of those guys and they mate them and then they make their babies fight and, you know, and then they like, keep selectively, in an almost like disturbing kind of way, keep breeding these guys into being finally Team Six.

[Megan McArdle]

Well, I would like to see Team Six. I would like to see maybe some workout pictures.

[Luke Burbank]

I don't know, though, because I think that, Okay, I think Team Six, actual Team Six, you're Right. Those guys are probably pretty.

[Megan McArdle]

And I don't want to know the actual person. Like a lot of people are really caught up with when will we get an interview with the actual person who fired the bullet? Like, I love the idea that they're a team and we'll never know who actually fired that bullet. And you know what I mean? Like, I just want to see the team.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, I thought I saw on. I want to say Gawker today reference.

[Megan McArdle]

Yeah, Gawker had that thing about whoever it was, they had a flat ab.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, I didn't actually read the story though. Did that give you, did that give you confirmation of what you thought?

[Megan McArdle]

Well, it had a bunch of pictures of Navy SEALs.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, I see.

[Megan McArdle]

And they were wonderful.

[Luke Burbank]

Although, you know, a couple of the people I've seen who've been doing interviews and the guy who was the leader of this group of Team Six, he's actually from Tacoma, I believe. So it's a big deal out here, really. Yeah, yeah. But he's like a dad. I mean, he's like our dad, you know, I mean he's, he's, he looks like he's probably in his.

[Megan McArdle]

Does he have like a Tom Selleck mustache?

[Luke Burbank]

No, no. He's not a sexy dad. He's like a dad dad. He's like, he's like a, he's like a 50 year old guy.

[Megan McArdle]

Who is he on the mission?

[Luke Burbank]

I think he was. I don't know what his exact role was, but he's in charge. Maybe he's the guy who's just in charge of that department, division, whatever you.

[Megan McArdle]

Call it, says drop and give me 20.

[Luke Burbank]

Right? Because then also there was the guy I saw being interviewed who was, I think formerly of this group or of a group like this. And he was, he was on Nightline last night and he was talking about what their state of mind is, you know, going in to one of these things and, and he was, let's be honest, not exactly super fit either. But that's because he's probably retired. And as soon as you're not, as soon as you're not swimming half of the Indian Ocean every day and then wrestling two electric eels just as part of your training, defeating a Leviathan or whatever. As soon as you stop doing that, your body probably goes to seed pretty quickly. Now I have to say, Jen, I'm completely ready to look at the bin Laden photo.

[Megan McArdle]

Did you watch the Hussein hanging?

[Luke Burbank]

No, I didn't. I don't want to see people getting actively killed. That weirds me out. But the fact that it's a done deal, then I'm. I mean, it's still troubling. Like, I don't see horror movies. I'm not a. I'm not a. I don't think I'm a very gruesome person by nature. But like, I looked at the pictures of Uday and Kousse.

[Megan McArdle]

Mm.

[Luke Burbank]

Because I just felt like when I read what those guys had done to people and women in particular, I was like, you have to die now. And then when I saw them dead, I was like, good. So for me. But I, But. But if there was video of them being executed, them being shot, I would not want to see that. I don't know why it makes a difference to me. There's. I don't have a real justification for that, but that's just. I don't know. That's somehow seems different to me.

[Megan McArdle]

And by the way, speaking of revenge, you know, one of the main sources of information on where Bin Laden was was ksm. And I love the fact that we're still using his stretched out undershirt picture with all the neck hair. Like, that's still his official state picture.

[Luke Burbank]

That's pretty great. Have you. I don't know if you ever saw pictures of him. There was like one or two pictures taken of him when he was actually, you know, I guess in Guantanamo or maybe he was appearing in court somewhere and he has lost a bunch of weight and is sh. You know, he doesn't look like that guy at all. But that's part of his punishment.

[Megan McArdle]

Yeah, we still use that picture.

[Luke Burbank]

We are going to use a picture where you have a ridiculous night shirt on.

[Megan McArdle]

We don't care if you've had an extreme makeover. We like that picture.

[Luke Burbank]

You don't get to have an extreme makeover. Ksm, Actually, that whole thing, whatever, everybody's already heard it all by now, but I'm like obsessed with this whole story.

[Megan McArdle]

Of how they figure and all that.

[Luke Burbank]

How they figured it out and then the whole mission. Because it's like, it's like it's one part, you know, Remington Steele, one part Bourne Identity. Maybe it's one part Columbo, one part Bourne Identity, like the whole investigative part of it where they. Because what KSM actually gave them was they knew that there was a courier. They had learned at some point that there's a guy who's probably like the only guy that Bin Laden will ever let near him on a regular basis and serve as a courier. Because, you know, Bin Laden never used phones or Anything like that. Everybody knows this by now, but they knew there was a guy, but they didn't know what his name was. And then they got a name. They got a name, but it was like a pseudonym. And then they kept getting little pieces of information from different people. And what Khalid Sheikh Mohammed said was they asked him about this pseudonym, and he was like, oh, yeah, I know that guy, but he's not in Al Qaeda. But he was so adamant that the guy is not an Al Qaeda that they all went back in their thing and they were like, that guy's definitely an Al Qaeda. So that's how they got. And that was a big. That was when they basically confirmed that a person existed, but they still didn't know his name. So then through all these other weird back channels, they, like, figure out that the guy has a name. Okay, now we know his name. Then it's two more years, and on some phone line that they're monitoring, this dude finally calls different person that they're following up on, and they figure out, oh, my God, the guy on the other line is the dude that we've been looking for for two years. So then they follow him. They figure out roughly where he's at. And then it comes down to this whole moment. This is very boring identity where, like, the Pakistani security forces have to drive behind his, like, white Suzuki and write down his license plate number and all this crazy stuff. Then the whole mission that they did on Sunday, I mean, are you kidding me? Part of why they had to be in there for 40 minutes only was because the Pakistani air force was on the way to get them to get the Americans. Or at least to say, like, hey.

[Megan McArdle]

So what are you doing in our.

[Luke Burbank]

Is that a bin Laden in your chopper? Are you just happy to see us? And, you know, we think of these soldiers as being invincible because they are pretty tough dudes, but, like, you know, 30American guys and a couple choppers against the entire Pakistani military. The Pakistani military is pretty, pretty bad. A actually, a lot of things aren't great about Pakistan. Almost complete female illiteracy. One of them on the other side, they got the military shit down. And, like, imagine you're the US and you're like, you're, like, raising up from this little house area, and there's three or four Pakistani, like, fighter jets are coming up on you, like, put down the bin Laden. I mean, that would have been a really bad scene. And one of the things they also had involved in this mission was two more choppers that were scheduled to go in if These people had to fight their way out of Pakistan. So if they had to go straight up Chuck Norris on this shit, like, just like we're going to actually, we're going to take on the entire Pakistani army and Air Force to get back over to, I guess, I don't know, Afghanistan or wherever it is they could go, they would not be like having to battle these dudes. But that was one of the contingencies. Can you tell that I've been obsessively reading about this?

[Megan McArdle]

Yes. It's amazing how you're. You're like information central on this now. You're saying. So you're saying you think there's like a 90% chance that the bin Laden picture will be released?

[Luke Burbank]

I think that is the case because, number one, the press conference that they had today with one of the White House people said that they're considering it. And to even say that makes one think that they're probably going to do it. And also because, I mean, a large percentage of the Muslim world outside of the US Anyway is still suspicious and wants to know, hey, why did you dump this guy in the ocean and did you really get him and all that stuff? And so I think that they feel like it will settle things a little bit with certain other people, will be like, that's disrespectful to show a picture of a guy because he's pretty. They've also described to the media what's in the photos. And that is, like, intense. Just imagining what they say is in the photos, which everyone will find out about when they eventually come out. But it's pretty intense stuff. I just feel like even if they decided they weren't going to release it, there is no way that they can keep every person. And I'm sure it's a relatively short list of people, but there's no way they can keep each and every person who has any contact with these files from forward one of them forwarding it to one of their friends on a cell phone.

[Megan McArdle]

And where do you put the odds of pictures of Team Six, and particularly the one who fired the kill shot?

[Luke Burbank]

Very high. Very high. When they resurrect the show. Donahue and he has on Team Six. Oh, you know what? The Team six will be on the View. Team six will be. They'll write a book. I mean, here's what I was thinking. Is this messed up about this is how my brain works. Like these guys and gals too. I don't know. I'm assuming it's all guys, but it might not be. There could be females too.

[Megan McArdle]

I don't know if there's women seals. I've actually never.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah.

[Megan McArdle]

Or that.

[Luke Burbank]

I don't know. I'm just trying to be safe, not hurt any feelings. Jen, here's.

[Megan McArdle]

I mean, it's funny you had mentioned that, because what was going through my mind was the whole Jessica lynch rescue. And those people were everywhere. They were on every single talk show.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah. The only problem was that whole story was bullshit, Right? Yeah, that was a minor, like a minor point.

[Megan McArdle]

If they can go on a media tour. Team six.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, all I was thinking, somebody on the web chat saying women cannot be seals.

[Megan McArdle]

Okay, so I had a feeling.

[Luke Burbank]

But, but the, the thing about, the thing about these guys that I was thinking when I got up this morning, this is. I don't know why. These are the thoughts that are in my brain when I'm getting up in the morning. It's bizarre. But what I thought is those guys must have gotten so goddamn drunk afterwards. Can you imagine? It's like. I mean, it's like. It's like beyond. It's like Top Gun party to the power of a billion.

[Megan McArdle]

Well, just the adrenaline. I mean, it would take so long for that adrenaline to go down.

[Luke Burbank]

You killed bin Laden. It's done. He's been identified, the DNA. And you know what, guys? You're on shore leave. Take the next couple of days off and you go to. I don't know where they're actually. I mean, they're based in Virginia. But you assume that maybe they had a layover somewhere and like went to.

[Megan McArdle]

Dubai or something, or.

[Luke Burbank]

I was thinking, for some reason I've got this whole fantasy constructed, Jen, about how this one, it's like in Bangkok or something and they're just in like this crazy saloon.

[Megan McArdle]

It's just kept moving east.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, I don't know why. I've taken the long route. They're just in like a saloon and they're just like sitting around and it's just like a really hot summer day. It's like 2:00 in the afternoon and it's just like, we did it, you guys. And then they just proceed to get outrageously drunk.

[Megan McArdle]

Well, there's no higher mission. Like, they've accomplished the very high. The biggest mission that the President has set forth for them. They've done it.

[Luke Burbank]

It's like something that happens in a Michael Bay movie. It's like they flew up to an asteroid and got on it and put a bomb in it and blew it up and like the Earth is saved. You know, I mean, I'm not trying to say that that's the threat that bin Laden posed, but in terms of things that we can do that a small group of guys could do, it's pretty Michael Bayian, by the way.

[Megan McArdle]

That reminds me, I think that was the funniest thing Jon Stewart said last night is when they interrupted Celebrity Apprentice to say that the president was going to address the nation. And he said, we have been trained by many, many movies that when a black president addresses the nation, it means a meteor is headed straight for us.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah. Yeah. So I just was thinking those guys must have been so pumped. Like, so beyond pumped. Like, I feel like they might have just killed, like, killed another bartender just for sport. Because they could. Like, it was all fun. And then it got weird. And then there's like, somebody killed some, but then they just went back.

[Megan McArdle]

Goes too far.

[Luke Burbank]

They just went back to partying. And again, I can't get. I assume at some point they started singing old time rock and roll or you lost that love and feeling, which is the one they sing in Top Gun.

[Megan McArdle]

You've lost that love and feeling.

[Luke Burbank]

I feel like Anthony Edwards was on a piano. So anyway, that was what I was thinking about with that. Speaking of partying, like, it's 1999. Did you know that Chateau St. Michel is the official wine sponsor of TBTL? We. We love them so much because they make a great product, which we. Which we have all the time here in the Burbank studios. Not during the show, although sometimes during the show, we got this email from listener Laurel Kate, who's in San Francisco. She says, hey, Luke, on Sunday, I went on a date with a gentleman who turned out to be a little dull, but he did raise a little in my esteem by serving up some Chateau St. Michel Sauvignon Blanc. It was delicious. Probably won't be going out with him again, but I do see a lot more Chateau St. Michel in my future. So there you go, guys. If you are kind of a dull person and you're trying to impress a lady or, you know, another fella or whomever, get out on the Chateau St. Michel, and even though they might not date you again, you will raise. You will rise in their esteem ever so slightly, those are the kind of results you can't argue with. Clearly, I didn't read through that whole email before I decided to read it, because beginning of it was, he's pretty dull, but he did have Chateau St. Michel, which was great, but I'm still not gonna go out with him again. So I guess the tagline is Chateau St. Michel so that that person who won't date you anymore thinks of you with slightly less scorn. And if that's not a great live read, let's be honest. It's not a great live read. But I can tell you that Chateau St. Michel is wonderful stuff. If you're in the grocery store and you're trying to figure out what you want to do for your wine needs and you're looking at that big old wall of wine, just grab some Chateau St Michel and you'll be in good shape. Or you can also get them online. If you go to tbtl.net, there's a button on the right side of the page that links you over to them. Chateau St Michel. They are our sweet berry wine. Sweet berry wine sponsor, Chateau St. Michel, Woodinville, Washington. All right, we have one more media story before we hit a little musical break here. And that is a new segment that we're calling. Yay, Scott Pelley. Boo Scott Pelley. Although, you know, that's not even really fair because Scott Pelley hasn't done anything wrong in this scenario, that I can tell. But the big news is that Scott Pelley will be taking over for Katie Couric. He will be the new host of the CBS Evening News. It seems well deserved to me, but I'm really bummed about it because I do not watch the CBS Nightly News because I am not a grandparent yet. And I do watch 60 Minutes every week, which he is amazing on which he will now be less probably able to file stories for. Is this a ye Scott Pelley or a boo Scott Pelley? Jen?

[Megan McArdle]

Well, I'm really happy for Scott Pelley, but I'm sad for America.

[Luke Burbank]

Yes.

[Megan McArdle]

You know what I mean? I mean, not to get into the details of what happened on Sunday night, but Scott Pelley had to interview Lara Logan, who, you know, she's a woman. She's his employee because he's the executive producer of 60 Minutes. He's the one who sent her on that assignment.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, I didn't even think about that.

[Megan McArdle]

And he sat there and had her tell him her story. And he was amazing.

[Luke Burbank]

He was also almost crying, and it was like that was the thing that was making me almost cry.

[Megan McArdle]

Yes.

[Luke Burbank]

Because we need Scott Pelley to be strong for all of us, which we.

[Megan McArdle]

Talked about with Japan, too, when Scott Peli was reporting from that gym where all those little kids had lost their lives. And he was like, there are more dead than the living to care for the Dead bodies. And he was starting to cry. I was like, no, no, no, no, no. Like, he just brings something really, really special. I think he's really smart, he's really measured. He's really good in interviews. And I just think 60 Minutes is really gonna miss him. And I am with you. I do not watch the CBS Evening News ever. So I feel like he's just, like, gone from my life. It's like my trusted uncle.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah. It's like the grandparents of America are going to be. They're going to gain from this. They're going to benefit. They'll be getting better reporting and I would imagine more reliable. Not that there was anything wrong with Katie Couric, but, but, but, you know, I mean, it was troubled.

[Megan McArdle]

It was a troubled broadcast, but I.

[Luke Burbank]

Don'T think that was Katie Couric. I mean, here, look, here's the problem. Katie Couric took the helm of a style of newscasting. I mean, in terms of time slot and the way the network allocates the resources and the way it's broadcast, that's going away. You know, it's like. It's like she entered a hydroplane race, but she was supposed to be piloting a Titanic. Like, Katie Courage just couldn't keep up with Chip Hanauer. It's like. Yeah, because she's on a boat that, like, there was a giant hole in the middle of it that's too big for anyone to fill. So it's like. And Scott Pelly, similarly, he will just. I mean, he'll preside over this thing for, I'm sure, some number of years, and I'm sure he'll do a great job, but we'll just never see it because none of us watch the evening news. I mean, to be honest with you, when it's on and I'm in front of the tv, which is rare because I'm not sitting in front of the TV at 6 o'clock at night generally, but. Because that's casino time. But you know what I mean? Like, I would watch it absolutely. But, but, but, you know, I just. The other thing about Scott Pelly that I think makes him so great is that you have the sense as a viewer that if he's interviewing someone and they're not shooting him straight, he might beat the shit out of them because.

[Megan McArdle]

He'S all like, there's a little bit of underlying thug.

[Luke Burbank]

There's, he's, he's, he's, he's manly and he's kind of big and he's, you know, still relatively Athletic. And he, and he has this thing where he kind of like sets his jaw, he's listening, but he's not getting the answer that he thinks is, you know, the true one. And because he. The thing about him that I love and actually there's this guy who co hosts Morning Edition, Steve Inskeep, who I think is kind of the same way. Not that Stevens keep. Would beat people up, although maybe. But they're both guys who are just like. They're just not having. They're just not having bullshit. And, and from people they're trying to interview who are, you know, like, like those are the guys I want to see them interview. Well, as soon as I start throwing out names, then people are gonna get mad. I'm politicizing the show. But let's just say I like the fact that, like, you feel like Scott Peli is gonna. He. I feel like people don't dare lie to him for too long because at some point he might just haul off and sock you in the face.

[Megan McArdle]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

And it's, it's. I think it's an important interviewing tactic.

[Megan McArdle]

Yeah, I agree.

[Luke Burbank]

So I'm.

[Megan McArdle]

And this is happening soon. I mean, she's supposedly. Her contracts up in June.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah. I don't know why they don't just get. I mean, these things must still make a lot of money, which is amazing to me, you know, that the, the nightly news still makes. I guess it's just, you know, there are a lot of people who are older and, and, and, and they watch. I mean, another thing is if they put the nightly news on at 8 o'clock, I would watch it every night because that's about the time that I'm now starting to. I mean, for the love of God, itvo Antiques Roadshow. I watched the shit out of Antiques Roadshow. If they just put the news on, I guess I could also TiVo it and then just watch it at 8. That's another. It's a crazy thing I could do. But I don't know, I just feel like it's. I feel like it's going to be a waste of a Pelly. A waste of a perfectly good Pelly.

[Megan McArdle]

Yep.

[Luke Burbank]

Kind of breaks my heart. All right. A little. A little music and then we come back. I've made a decision about if I'm gonna go see the Charlie Sheen tonight in Everett. Also, we've got some emails. Speaking of things to do tonight, listener Luke has some really pressing questions about tonight's Mariners game, which he's gonna be going to. And then Jen did You see that email about how and this person couldn't have been nicer in how they corrected us or clarified things for us. But did you see the email about how much we screwed up our assessment of the British office and the end of it?

[Megan McArdle]

I did see that.

[Luke Burbank]

That was how might I describe my feeling after reading really decimated our argument? That's right web people, I said decimated. So we'll read you that during our email segment. First, how about a little bit of the pretenders on this Tuesday for no reason other than I was scrolling through itunes and I thought I love this song. Here's a little brass in pocket Back with more tbtl in just one moment I am gonna use it intention I'm.

[Megan McArdle]

Feeling myself Gon make you make you.

[Luke Burbank]

Make you more dance Got motion resting emotion I've been diving deter leaning no.

[Megan McArdle]

Reason just seem so pleasing Gonna make you make it keep making no dance Gon use my arms Gon use my legs Gon use my style going use my side tip Gon use my fingers going my my my legendary show cause.

[Jen Andrews]

I gonna make a c Nobody else.

[Luke Burbank]

Here no one like me I'm special.

[Megan McArdle]

So special.

[Luke Burbank]

Hey folks, Luke here to remind you. Oh my goodness, Mother's Day. It's like say Tuesday. It's soon. Very soon. Math was never my strong suit. Here's some math though, that's very easy to do. You can get your mom 12 long stemmed roses of the assorted variety for $19.99. That's coming your way because of pro flowers. That's right. If you wait until this weekend and you want to try to get your mom roses, you're going to end up pan through the nose. You don't want to do that. Plus, how painful would that be to pay through your nose? It's like one of the worst possible places to store your money. Do it the easy way. And do what I'm doing this year with my dear mom, which is I'm using Proflowers. You can go to proflowers.com and click on the microphone and put my name in there. Actually, you know what? Do one better put TBTL down. Or if you call them at 1-800-proflowers, tell them that TBTL sent ya and they'll give you this deal. And by the way, this week they're running a special just until Friday night. If you want to throw 10 more bucks on there, you'll be able to double your order of roses. That's right. This is all courtesy of Proflowers. Again, go to proflowers.com or give them a call at 1-800-proflowers and tell them that TBTL sent you. All right. Welcome back to the TBTL. This is the show that's probably too beautiful to live. Tonight is the end of the Charlie Sheen. It has so many names, I constantly forget. Flash, it's the wizard of Violent.

[Megan McArdle]

Torpedo of Truth.

[Luke Burbank]

Wizard of Waverly Place. Failure. Suite Life of Zack and Cody is not an option.

[Megan McArdle]

Secret Life of the American Teenager.

[Luke Burbank]

That's so Raven. Life goes on tour.

[Megan McArdle]

I farley.

[Luke Burbank]

Exactly. So he's going to Everett tonight. And I have been around and around and around on whether or not I should go try to see this. Number one, I don't have tickets. Although I'm not that nervous about it because last night I went on Craigslist and when I was done looking for casual encounters, I went over to Charlie Connections. Yeah, I went over to Charlie Sheen tickets and there was probably 100 to 200 entries saying I got Charlie Sheen tickets. I'm reading a report in the Seattle PI about the, the shows that he just put on in Vancouver. Apparently the show in Vancouver at the 8,000 seat capacity Vancouver arena was not even half full. About 3,000 people bought tickets. That's bought tickets. I don't know how many of them actually showed up. Sheen went on stage. He complained about his custody battle. He blamed his pasty complexion on someone named Gabe who was apparently an absent makeup arts artist. And then the review from the Vancouver sun was. He said it was in terms Sheen fans can understand, like walking up to a hooker after smoking a 7 gram rock. That was mostly the kind of stuff that went on. So he's sort of, it sounds like limping into his final performance here in the greater Seattle area, but maybe this.

[Megan McArdle]

One, maybe he'll rebound tonight and it'll be great.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, that seems to have been the, you know, the, the sort of.

[Megan McArdle]

The pattern.

[Luke Burbank]

The pattern. Yeah, he, he'll go somewhere. He'll, he'll, he'll have a really bad performance and then he'll get it together and then the next night he'll actually put his all into it and it'll turn out. Although, you know, Jeffrey Ross, the comedian Jeffrey Ross has, was touring with him for a while and he, he, he said, oh, I wish I could remember the exact quote because it was pretty funny. He said he's a warlock from Mars. What he's not, though, is a comedian from Earth. And, and so he can't expect warlocks to be everything.

[Megan McArdle]

Right.

[Luke Burbank]

And so Jeff Ross was, I guess Kind of propping him up like Jeffrey Ross was playing the role of the interviewer on stage with him. And I would imagine that that probably improved things pretty greatly because Jeffrey Ross knows what he's doing and he's able to. He could work that crowd if need be. I mean, I think that maybe I'm saying this having not watched any of the shows yet, but I think some of the past shows have had problems because even once they switched to the interview format because he still didn't have people who were professional comedians on the order of Jeff Ross doing it. So you just end up with a kind of a crazed Charlie Sheen on stage and then kind of a scared, you know, one of his cronies sitting in a director's chair. Although, as we said on the show, anytime you get two directors chairs out, you know, it's time for serious conversation. So, anyway, I. On the. On the. I don't want to go side. On the con side is I don't want to drive all the way to Everett tonight because I'm going crazy trying to get ready for the Chicago shows, and I need every moment that I can to work on that. And I don't want to pay for the tickets, and I don't have tickets. So I'm gonna have to go up and buy them from a scalper, which I imagine that they'll be going for less than face value. That's my hunch, but I don't know that for a fact. So I may find myself in a position where I have to actually overpay to see the violent torpedo of truth. There's also the fact that I'm going to feel uncomfortable the entire time because what more than likely will unfold on stage is exactly what I'm hoping won't happen with the TBTL live shows in terms of just kind of a manic, distracted onstage host who doesn't really know how to keep the attention of the crowd. So those are all on the con side. Also, there's the fact that the morning news show on Cairo heard that I was thinking about going, and now they want me to do, like, a review for them. Which means my reward for going up there tonight is I have to get up at like, 5:30 in the morning and phone in and do a review with them. So a lot of downside on the. In fact, there's no upside. Here's the only thing. There's not even. It's not like pros and cons. It's pros. And then here's why I feel like I can't miss it. Number one, it's the last time he'll ever do this. And I mean, years from now, Flash, 20 years from now, we're still going to say, remember when Charlie Sheen was, like, doing that tour, going to places and it was called the, like Missile. The Missile Tour. You know, we're going to be. And it's happening a 35 minute drive from me tonight and I kind of can't imagine not going. Also, there's the fact that it will give us a lot of. It will give us a lot of stuff to talk about on the program.

[Megan McArdle]

Yes, the show tomorrow is done.

[Luke Burbank]

Done easily. In fact, maybe Friday and Saturday night shows in Chicago are done too. I'll just come on stage in my warlock T shirt and I'll just reenact whatever happens at the Comcast center in Everett.

[Megan McArdle]

Now, don't forget, if you end up buying your tickets from scalpers, you won't be able to get a receipt. So don't forget to take a picture with your phone.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah.

[Megan McArdle]

And then when you print that out, write the date that we talked about it on the show, and then it's deductible.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah.

[Megan McArdle]

Don't forget to do that.

[Luke Burbank]

That's a good point.

[Megan McArdle]

I worry sometimes that you're not getting all of your deductible expenses.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, yeah, it's a good. It's a really good point. Best day of my life. Well, I'm not going to talk intimately about my various tax policies, but I'll just say I have had a history of not being great about receipts, one that I've now remedied. Is that cryptic enough for you? What I'm saying is they're foreclosing on the basement anyway. So I've come around to. I'm probably gonna go, and I'm probably gonna go just because if I don't go, I will. I will probably regret it. Even if I go and I just. And I try to buy a ticket and I can't get in because somehow, and I don't think this is possible, all the tickets will be sold and they'll be scalping them for $100 each. And then I'll just turn around and head home. But even that would be an experience. Even that, I would say, well, I tried to go and it was sold out, but if I just sit here at home and watch my Antiques Roadshow and drink my Chateau St. Michel and don't go up there, I think I'm going to. I'm gonna regret it. Maybe not today, maybe not Tomorrow, but someday and for the rest of your life. I don't even do a boggart. That's awful. I really apologize for that, everybody. I hear that.

[Megan McArdle]

I think.

[Luke Burbank]

Yep.

[Megan McArdle]

I think if you're going, then you need to commit. This is the key to these kinds of things. Like, I. I was invited to my niece's ballet, and then on the way there, I find out that it's not just her ballet. It's a community talent show where anyone. And so. But at that point, I'm in the car and I'm driving there.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah.

[Megan McArdle]

And so I made this decision in my mind. Like, I'm going, and I'm gonna fully commit to it. I'm gonna talk to the people around me. I'm gonna have a great time. I'm gonna buy a drink, and I'm gonna be there, like, fully present. Be there to experience it. And I had a blast. The flute players and the clogged dancers and the acapella Joan Baez wanna. It was all awesome.

[Luke Burbank]

Wow.

[Megan McArdle]

Because I made a decision in my mind to commit to it. As long as I'm going, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna be committed to the night and I'm gonna have a great time. And I think that's your key.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, that's probably a good point. Here's the problem, though. Fully getting in the spirit of the show probably involves killing a hooker.

[Megan McArdle]

You know, stop short of that.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, I mean, that's the thing. First of all, I'm kind of not really drinking this week because I just want to be on my game. And I've just, you know, as I've complained about already on this show extensively, I have a lot to do. And so I just can't be. Can't be messing around with hangovers in the morning and stuff.

[Megan McArdle]

Well, you can buy one beer.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah. But then it's like. I mean, I might as well just have a club. I feel like. I feel like if I'm going to this show, I need to, like, clear out my schedule tomorrow. I need to. I need to get a room at the. At the, you know, holiday Everett Hilton. The Everett Hilton, if they have one. I doubt it. And then, you know, just. I need to go. I need to turn into a warlock, which I don't want to do. I don't have time for this week. This is a terrible week for me to turn into a warlock.

[Megan McArdle]

No, don't. Don't kill a hooker and don't do crack. But, you know, chat with the people around you and have a Good time.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah. All right. I may take Kamaro Kev with me.

[Megan McArdle]

Since that's a good idea. Don't go alone. Do not go alone.

[Luke Burbank]

He knows the back roads of Evert because he grew up over there in Lake Stevens, just a stone's throw away. And you know, maybe, maybe, maybe he'll be my wingman on this. So I mean, the good news, Jen, is that we do have tomorrow's show fully covered. I'm also going to bring my little handheld recorder if there's any, is there any relevant audio to be gathered. I will, I will grab that as well. All right, let's get into a couple of, a couple of emails here. Here I go once again with the email.

[Megan McArdle]

Every week I hope that it's from a female.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh man. It's not from a female. This one's not. It's from listener named Luke. I feel like we have a lot of Luke's that listen to the show. I wonder if people are, are attracted to that name because they like my name because they have that name. Maybe that's what it seems. We have a disproportionately high number of Lukes that listen to the show.

[Megan McArdle]

Yeah, we have a lot of Luke's, you're right. But we also have a lot of Jason's and a lot of Jennifer's and.

[Luke Burbank]

A lot of Kate's. We had an entire show based on that.

[Megan McArdle]

We have so many Kates. We also have a Vanessa in D.C. oh, really?

[Luke Burbank]

I didn't know that. That's one of my favorite names. You know that Before Vanessa and I ever met, Vanessa was one of my favorite names, which is how it was written in the stars. All right, listener Luke says. I have two Mariner related questions. If you could give me some insight, it would be much appreciated. I landed some tickets tonight in the view box row one behind home plate. I've never been up against the edge like this and was wondering if it was appropriate for two men in their 20s to make a cheesy sign and hang it over the edge. I haven't made a sign since Griffey was in the middle of his eight straight home run hitting streak and it always seems to be either a small child or middle aged woman. However, I have a marketing idea if we keep Eric Wedge as the manager, that this could be an opportunity to advertise for his business, which is called Wedge fake mustaches. Eric Wedge keeps inching. Now for those of you who aren't Mariner fans, the Mariners coach looks exactly like Ron Swanson from Parks and Rec. He is a dead ringer. I mean, the spitting image of Ron Swanson. But he's been doing this cuckoo thing with his mustache where it's just been growing wider and wider and wider. But it's not like it's out of control. He still trims it and what he does is. I don't know how to explain this over the radio or whatever this is that we're doing right now, but it's not like it's Geraldo size. You know how Geraldo just has a giant mustache? Yeah, it's like it's enormous, but it's very groomed so that it goes.

[Megan McArdle]

It's also kind of flesh colored a little bit.

[Luke Burbank]

Yes. He's got that, he's got that hair color and skin tone where kind of like Spencer Pratt of the Spidey Montag thing where it just looked like he had kind of a skin disorder, but actually it was his beard. So this, this mustache of Eric Wedges is. It used to be at the beginning of the season, straight up Ron Swanson. I kept expecting to look over in the dugout and he'd be woodworking and drinking a scotch, but now it's getting wider and wider and wider. It kind of looks like a Frisbee or like a B2 bomber or. I don't know. It's a very, very bizarre thing that he has. But anyway, listener Luke is saying he wants to make. He could make an ad for Wedge fake mustaches. Eric Wedge keeps inching his mustache out more and more as the season goes on. It's becoming a personal inspiration for me in the non mustache growing community. If they had an Eric Wedge mustache night, it could be the biggest draw in our traditionally gimmicky baseball season. All I ask for in return for the Mariners is one of the sweet Cooperstown track jackets. Because there's no way I'm spending $70 on swag after dropping $11 on a large beer. Now let me say this, Luke. Oftentimes after the eleven dollar beer, you're more inclined to spend money on their crap stuff because you're kind of drunk. What's your opinion? Watch tonight's Bedard suck factor. That's a reference to our pitcher Eric Bedard in a state of ambivalence and eventual acceptance or use as an opportunity to make my mark on Seattle baseball history. Keep hope alive. I would say definitely make the Eric Wedge fake mustache sign.

[Megan McArdle]

I agree. I think that sounds great.

[Luke Burbank]

That sounds hilarious.

[Megan McArdle]

It'll bring some joy to what's probably not going to be a Joyful night.

[Luke Burbank]

You will get. You will get famous. And if you really want to get famous, I would say you might want to make a sign that says, mustache rides 5 cents, and then wear fake Eric Wedge mustaches. You are. I mean, Lord knows that there's going to be ample opportunity for them to cut away from the on the field action. Probably you guys might even make SportsCenter, because then they'll cut to Bedard, they'll cut to Eric Wedge, they'll cut to you guys, they'll cut to Eric Wedge. It'll be awesome. So I say, totally do it. I would say don't do the thing where you call your friends on the cell phone and then you just wave the whole game. I understand that impulse, believe me. This thing you're listening to, this podcast is the. It's the imaginary radio equivalent of that exact thing.

[Megan McArdle]

But you want to be cooler than that, Luke.

[Luke Burbank]

Exactly. I want to be cooler than that. And we want other listener Luke to be cooler than that, too. And that's where the, you know, mustache rides.

[Megan McArdle]

Don't fight that inclination.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, don't do that. Don't call your friend and be like, turn on Fox Sports right now. Actually, it's called Root now. Turn on Root. Look at me. Look at me. Because the problem with that move. I've watched so many baseball games that are lightly attended, and you got like, three guys sitting behind home plate, and the first inning, they call their buddies, and you see by about the third inning, they don't have anyone else to call. And then you just realize they have no friends. It only took them about four phone calls to reach every single person who would possibly care about this. And then they just kind of sit there and they're slumped. And then every once in a while, they get pumped and they'll, like, wave at the camera, but it's a sad thing all the way around. I do, however, think the fake mustaches are brilliant. Make the sign. And will you write TBTL somewhere on the base of the sign? I know it doesn't work in the overall concept, but I don't care. It'll be awesome. I'll check it out at a bar in Evert before I go over to see the Charlie Sheen Tornado. By the way, someone's selling two tickets for $20, normally $50 a piece.

[Megan McArdle]

Wow.

[Luke Burbank]

So I think this bodes. I think this bodes well. Let's see. Let me. Do you have one you want to read Jen, or do you want me just to go with this? The office one. I've got to dial it up here in my.

[Megan McArdle]

Oh, I was just going to say that Julie emailed me to say that she called her mother, who lives in Indiana, on Sunday night because she knew her mother would be sleeping through the bin Laden announcement. So she gave her a wake up call because, you know, her mother's elderly. And she said that had she known that I too, was sleeping through it, she would have called me as well. So I am considering giving Julie my number for emergencies so that this never happens again. So thank you, Julie. I'm considering it. I may send you my number.

[Luke Burbank]

And then is like, are you gonna also just start calling that phone number to find out what time it is?

[Megan McArdle]

And when the number 17 bus comes.

[Luke Burbank]

Which is another I am from. I'm old enough, though, to remember when that was just such an amazing thing. Right?

[Megan McArdle]

Oh, we called time three times a day. Yeah, it was usually.

[Luke Burbank]

It just felt like magic. You could call a number and it would just tell you what time it was. It just thought, I can't believe that we live in an. In an era when this is possible. All right, got this email from listener Gray yesterday. We were talking about how Jen cried at the end of the American Office. Well, I should say at Steve Carell's exit. And then we were kind of going on about how that was so unlike the British Office, which was just so British and awesome and only two seasons and not about, you know, emotional whatnot. But then we apparently missed almost every single detail that would argue to the contrary of what we were saying. Listener Grace said, here's a recap of what's going on at the end of the Christmas special, which is kind of the last Ever Edition episode of the British Office. David Brent has a blind date with a girl who actually seems to accept him and thinks he's cool. Number two, David's date empowers him to stand up for himself and tell off Chris Finch with a hearty, why don't you just f off. Totally forgot about that part. Because that Chris Finch guy, boy, oh boy, he's a real. He's a real pain in the keister. Number three, Don and Tim hadn't gotten together. Don had moved to Florida with her fiance and had been away for three years. Her dreams of being an illustrator had been crushed. And Don and her fiance had come back to Slough just for the Christmas party. Don and Tim reconnect and Don doodles a picture of Tim on a napkin. Then Tim and Don go. They get Secret Santa. He gets her an oil paint set and includes her doodle of his face in the note underneath that says, never give up. Then she comes back and they kiss. It's glorious. And back for good is playing and it's just wonderful. Gray writes, I ball every time I watch it.

[Megan McArdle]

I don't remember any of that.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, I don't either, but I'm pretty sure it happened because it would be weird if Gray was lying about it.

[Megan McArdle]

It happened an entire episode. I believe him. I think I believe him. I don't remember any of that. And so clearly it didn't impact me as much. But I think my point is still valid, which is, I can't believe I cried about Michael Scott, a man who drove me batty for five years. I can't believe I cried about him leaving. I feel like that still holds true. That is weird to me.

[Luke Burbank]

Right, right. So it's not so much that you're saying the office can never be an emotional chauffeur. You're saying we don't need to shed too many tears for the character of. Although I will say that I now have a vague memory of kind of empathizing with David Brent when he finally tells Chris Finch to f off.

[Megan McArdle]

Well, and I also think the email makes a good point, which is that I always think the Ricky Gervais shows are unflinching and refuse to a little bit like Seinfeld. Like, no learning, no hugging, no growing that idea. But when I really think about it, he does actually do that to some extent. His characters do grow and they do learn.

[Luke Burbank]

What's interesting, though, about it is that I think he's so. Yeah, because when you see him talking, he's always. He's not about sentimentality or religion or any of those things, but. So when he does bring it out, it's actually. I mean, we just talked about yesterday, but the. That scene in Extras, when he has his sort of like, has come to Jesus moment is just so powerful. I mean, it's like we should all. At least we who make this show, which is kind of like the off, off, off brand Big Brother, except it's just me in my basement and you and your studio apartment. But, like, we should, like, just watch that scene once a week to just get our center back as far as, like, what's important in life. I mean, when he does do it, it's like super duper powerful.

[Megan McArdle]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

So anyway. Well, Gray, you were right. We were wrong.

[Megan McArdle]

I had forgotten that completely.

[Luke Burbank]

We were totally, totally off base. So there you go. Hey, we're going to be in Chicago in three days. Something like that. It's getting very, very exciting. We're finishing up the last few details. I'm learning how to do something on Photoshop because we were going to. Oh, you know, we were going to hit up our dear friend Matt in Tenver to help us make a couple of fun slides for the show. Yeah, they just had a baby.

[Megan McArdle]

Oh.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh.

[Megan McArdle]

Oops.

[Luke Burbank]

So they're a little. What do you call it? Busy having. What do you call it? A life.

[Megan McArdle]

Mama Lee has a sibling.

[Luke Burbank]

It's really funny because Matt said something to the effect of, you know, he said, when people hear that I have two kids, they think that I'm 40, but then they. Then they find out I'm Mexican and then they think I'm 19. So good job, man. Good job to both of you. But anyway, I'm.

[Megan McArdle]

As long as we're doing that, by the way, Zach and Lauren Jost just had a baby girl.

[Luke Burbank]

Isaac and Lauren, Good for you guys. Congrats. Anyway, the point is that. Point is that we're getting very busy. We're just busy little beavers getting ready for these Chicago shows because we're gonna make them so much fun for you guys and we're gonna have such a good time. The Friday night show is at 7:00. It's at Shuba's. And the Saturday night show. No, that's not right. The Friday night show is at 10:00 at Shuba's. And the Saturday night show is at. At what time? At 7:00, the other one. And it's gonna be fun there. Sean has got some. I mean, man, he's. He's got a couple of segments lined up for this thing that. Well, we may or may not be able to do the show after he's done because he's gonna blow.

[Megan McArdle]

I will be very nervous.

[Luke Burbank]

He's gonna blow the COVID off some things. And I do mean probably our ability to keep doing the show. But anyway, that's gonna be fun, Jen, we'll be checking in on your life and doing some granny time and stuff and a couple of experimental segments that I've come up with that Jen, you're highly dubious about. So if that's not a sales pitch, I don't know.

[Megan McArdle]

But you're so confident that I'm gonna follow you into battle.

[Luke Burbank]

That's right.

[Megan McArdle]

You're my William Wallace.

[Luke Burbank]

Indeed. And anyway, it's gonna be. It's gonna be lots and lots of fun. So we are so excited to see everybody. There is a meetup that's happening on Friday night of the some of the Chicago 10s, it's happening at. What's that place called? Trader Todd's. Yeah, Trader, as we said, not Trader.

[Megan McArdle]

Joe's or Trader Vic's, right?

[Luke Burbank]

No, Trader Todd's. And that's happening at 7:00. I think some tens are getting together there. And we'll be hanging about after the Friday night show and Saturday night show, having some drinks with y'all and spending some quality time together. Touching hearts. So make sure you come see us. If you. If you had plans this week and they fell through, just make a beeline for Chicago. Just drive for the Lakeview neighborhood. I don't care where you could be in Tampa. Does not matter. Come see us in Chicago. It's gonna be really fun. You know, listener Pam is coming.

[Megan McArdle]

Yeah, from Buckley.

[Luke Burbank]

Came and saw us in la. She does work for an airline. She's got a little bit of an unfair advantage, but she's like six for six on the last bunch of these things. She's awesome. So anyway, can't wait to see everybody there. If you are also.

[Megan McArdle]

The Iowa tens are coming. The Wisconsin tens are coming. The North Dakota 10s are coming. And the Michigan tens are coming.

[Luke Burbank]

Look at the Midwest and Upper Midwest representing. Good job, you guys. So, yeah, we're staying at the James Hotel down there. And if you are at the last minute looking for a place, you might want to give them a call or go to their website. If you put in the number fifth, the word fifth, it's weird because it's a word that describes a number. The word fifth, you'll get 15% off your room for being a TBTL friendo. A big thanks to James Hotel. They're the official hotel sponsor of our trip out there. So, yeah, it's coming up ever so soon. I guess we're gonna do. On Thursday we'll do a kind of a modified show because we're all gonna be traveling around. And then Friday, this has actually turned into a really fun tradition. Friday we will sit down somewhere in a bar. Oh, I have other news for you, Jen. About what? What you're gonna have to do on Friday or maybe Saturday. I'm bringing like 500 posters, which we have. We have to sit down.

[Megan McArdle]

Some autographing.

[Luke Burbank]

We have to sit down and autograph all of the posters for the pledge drive.

[Megan McArdle]

You buy me a drink and I'll do it.

[Luke Burbank]

That's what I was thinking. You know, I was thinking we'll get breakfast. We'll order breakfast and mimosas.

[Megan McArdle]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

Sit around and sign posters for hours. Is that cool?

[Megan McArdle]

That'll be awesome.

[Luke Burbank]

Okay, good. I kind of really painted you in a corner there because what are you going to say? No? We sold these posters of people based on the idea that you were going to sign them so you have no exit strategy. Anyway, that's coming up this weekend. It's very, very exciting times and we can't wait to see everybody out there that's gonna do it on this Tuesday. Thank you very much for listening. Here's a little appropriate music to take us out in honor of the sometimes surprisingly emotional British office. Everybody have a great Tuesday. We'll see you tomorrow at High Deuce. Until then, no mountain too tall and.

[Megan McArdle]

Good luck to all.

[Luke Burbank]

Indeed. So what becomes of you, my love when they have madness stripped you out the handbags and the glad racks and your granddad had to swear so you goodbye.