Clown of Slipknot

Summary

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Tetragrammaton with Rick Rubin

Episode: Clown of Slipknot (Shawn Crahan)
Release Date: May 6, 2026

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Episode Overview

This mesmerizing episode dives into the creative mind and life journey of Shawn "Clown" Crahan, the visionary percussionist and founding member of Slipknot. With host Rick Rubin, Crahan unpacks the raw emotional landscape behind the band’s identity, his relentless commitment to art and music, and deeply personal experiences with trauma, loss, and self-discovery. The conversation intertwines reflections on metal’s mutation, the importance of discipline, the origins of Slipknot, the band's culture, and the profound effect music and art have on both creators and fans.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Origins, Influence, and Early Creativity

• On formative years, trauma, and finding music as an escape:

  • Clown recounts a childhood marked by solitude, trauma, and self-reliance, which fueled an obsessive relationship with music and art.
  • "I've always known... when you lose some friends, you start taking a good look at life." (00:24)

• Musical influences:

  • Beatles, Hendrix, The Band, Elvis: “My mom would tell me once a week, don’t ever forget the Beatles are the greatest band ever and always will be.” (06:07)
  • First shock of seeing Kiss' Dynasty album cover: “I want to look like that. I told her that. I go. I go, that's me.” (07:31)

• Family role and discipline:

  • His mother fostered a deep love of music; his father insisted he learn its roots through blues, soul, and country.
  • Private school experience taught him discipline and left a lasting impact.
  • “It's not fun being told what to do. But if you can make it through... you're like, you know, I like making my bed.” (18:00)

Creating Slipknot’s World

• Vision for Slipknot and the “three drummers” idea:

  • “I had a vision of three drummers. I wanted a triangle...” (38:18)
  • Sought to blend metal traditions and the spectacle of art rock, aspiring to create something as impactful as Pink Floyd: “I wanted to be the Slipknot Pink Floyd. You know, have the art, have other things driving. If the riffs are going to be there, why not have a Phoenix with the riff and have it work together?” (21:31)

• Formation and scene camaraderie:

  • Describes Iowa’s unexpectedly fervent underground music scene: “You wouldn't. We're all older now, and we look back, everybody was in a band.” (30:02)
  • On meeting Joey Jordison: “I just had to see if you were human... I didn't know you could play drums like that.” (30:09, 31:31)

• Band structure, numbers, and masks:

  • Adopted numbers and masks to forge identity and unity; Clown is number 6, a number pregnant with personal meaning.
  • "Six is the sun and nine's the moon... six is a pretty—it’s a number that’s around a lot." (60:56)

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Artistry and Approach

• Philosophy of creativity and seriousness:

  • Takes artistry—musical and visual—deadly serious, to the point of seeming "crazy" to outsiders:
    • “My job has always been to take what I do very, very, very, very, very, very, very serious. Yeah, almost too serious.” (01:52)
    • “I just have always wanted to do my very best and be the biggest I could be because the company I keep. I believe in luck because I just do." (02:38)

• Album packaging and the “mirror” concept:

  • Iowa's package included a goat on the cover and a warped mirror inside:
    • “You open it up... there’s a mirror, and you’re part of it. And I got you... it’s more of like a carnival mirror where you’re a little twisted like us.” (105:23)

• Embracing experimentation and technology

  • Explores AI and Minecraft as creative tools:
    • "What I do is I look for the glitch in anything in life, and there’s glitches in AI... so I started art that encompassed everything." (90:52–94:44)
    • “I've invented a world known as Vern Earth... probably one of the biggest pieces of art I've ever done...” (94:44–96:42)

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Band Dynamics, Loss, and Grieving

• The deaths of Paul Gray and Joey Jordison:

  • “Paul... he’s the whole reason I’m sitting here. Yeah, he hijacked me from my art career.” (73:00)
  • Crahan continues to grapple with loss and the meaning of continuing the band:
    • “Did anyone think that maybe I might not want to go on without my friend?... It’s certainly no better without one of my best friends who was the genius.” (73:12)
    • “Joey really had a hard time with Paul... I don’t think he ever wanted to write with anyone else.” (109:31)

• Grieving with the fans:

  • Slipknot chose to tour instead of rushing into another record after Paul’s death, turning shows into memorials:
    • “We went on tour and did the grieving with our fans... put his bass on stage and, yeah, have two minutes of silence.” (74:00)

• Reflections on longevity and pain:

  • “I’m in a lot of extreme pain that I can’t get in control of because I’ve given 190 of myself.” (107:44)
  • “It’s the only thing that’s never turns back on me.” (112:37)

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Performance, Audience, and Legacy

• On Slipknot’s ferocious live shows:

  • “It’s us against you. And I'm gonna take these sparks and I'm gonna fly sparks over the crowd. I'm gonna do it, and you can't stop me.” (55:27)
  • Describes injuries, chaos, and relentless intensity: "See this? This is a broken bicep... I did eight shows in that, with that." (66:54–68:56)
  • “We are truly remarkable... every man in the band saying, I’m going to give 190 for me because I worked hard to get here.” (66:26)

• Dedication to fans ("Maggots") and their role:

  • “Best people in the world… I want to make music for the people that absolutely needed it.” (83:34)
  • On misconceptions: “It’s interesting that people who don’t understand the music view it as a negative thing. When you see how much people need it and love it and maybe it’s the only place they feel like they belong. I’m gonna stop crying.” (86:24)

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Personal Life, Art, and Vulnerability

• Being a creator and carrying trauma:

  • “All I want to do is create. That’s all I’m good at. I’m not good at anything else.” (102:26)
  • Speaks candidly about suffering loss, being a father, and dealing with anxiety and strength:
    • “Don’t have kids unless you’re prepared to look at them one day and realize that you’re not going to be there for them... being a dad and losing a child, it’s a fragile thing now and it’s been ruined.” (98:31)

• Perspective on ego and humility:

  • “I used to think I was really important... now... had to learn ego, and I had to learn, like, what really is important and what importance can do for importance.” (35:21)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On art and grief:
  • "No one in my career has really, like, stopped me and asked me what the album cover was or why this. You know, I'm not trying to force it down anybody anymore. You know, I never was. I just love art." (00:24)
• On the Slipknot stage:
  • "It’s every man in the band saying, I’m going to give 190 for me because I worked hard to get here. And if I don’t, this...I might as well go get a chili dog and ride that ride and go watch something I don’t want to watch." (66:30)
• On performance injuries:
  • "I grabbed a keg and on my parents grave, something pulled it back... and I ripped the bicep muscle... and it was like lightning." (66:54)
• On fans and belonging:
  • "I want to make music for the people that absolutely needed it. If they were put in a situation they didn’t care for... that’s who I wanted maggots to be." (83:34)
• On persistence:
  • "I hate that it keeps me alive. You know what I mean, Rick? Like, it keeps me alive. It makes me drink water. It makes me. It gets the bad smoke that I had once out of me. It gets the talk, you know, it keeps me alive. It gives me desire, gives me will, gives me purpose, and I can't stand it." (113:28)

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Timeline of Essential Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:24 | Clown on loss, friendship, and gratitude | | 01:52 | Discussing musical seriousness, feeling "crazy" | | 06:07 | Childhood music: Beatles, Hendrix, and Kiss influences | | 18:00 | Discipline from private school and its impact on Slipknot’s ethos | | 21:31 | Attending Pink Floyd, the vision for Slipknot's own art/performance | | 31:31 | Meeting Joey Jordison, the technical awe of Slipknot's assembly | | 55:27 | Vivid description of Slipknot's earliest live shows and shock tactics | | 73:00 | The loss of Paul Gray, grief, and moving forward | | 98:31 | Reflections on fatherhood, vulnerability, and anxiety | | 105:23 | “Iowa” album package and the mirror concept | | 107:44 | On band changes, wisdom, and pain | | 112:37 | Music as the ultimate source of meaning and survival |

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Conclusion

This episode is a tour de force of candor, creative philosophy, and emotional depth. Shawn Crahan lays bare the heart, scars, and soul of Slipknot—offering a rare, unfiltered look at how trauma, discipline, loss, and burning devotion to art have shaped both his individual journey and the band's mythos. Rick Rubin’s gentle curiosity creates space for tales that are wild, heartbreaking, and inspiring, connecting listeners to the reality behind the masks, the mayhem, and the music.

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Transcript

[Narrator/Host]

Tetragrammaton.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

First of all, I'm very blessed, and I keep the company of the most amazing people. I've always known this. But when you lose some friends, you start taking a good look at life. And then, you know, like, with Joey, I try to explain to people, you know, because people are really hard on me with Joey because, you know, we separate it, you know, the band and, you know. But human beings don't know the story. Real friends don't tell it because of love. And you get older, you start recognizing it. No one in my career has really, like, stopped me and asked me what the album cover was or why this. You know, I'm not trying to force it down anybody anymore. You know, I never was. I just love art. And that was my job, was to be this, like, visionary, sort of, you know, Paul Gray, the bass player who I started the band with, you know, he always said I was going to change the face of metal the way it looks.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Yeah.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

You know, and you did. I didn't recognize that until he was gone. And with Joey, you know, I didn't recognize how great he was and how blessed I was to be in his presence because I was like, yo, you're late. You know, I carried your drum set up. Don't do it again. I'm going to kick it down the stairs. You know? And he's like, I'd like to see it. You know, we were bros, you know, I wasn't.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

And you were kids.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Yeah, I'm not. I'm not stopping. Like, I knew his double bass was sick. I knew it was better than anyone. I. I know the sex of his fills, you know, like, they're just sexy and romantic and have so much feeling. And it's not even, like, a technique. It's like some sort of, hey, here's a silk handkerchief, you know? And you're just like, well, I feel. I feel good. So. So my job has always been to take what I do very, very, very, very, very, very, very serious. Yeah, almost too serious.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Because what's too serious? Well, hard to say.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Too serious is for the norm. I end up being around a lot of norm, and so they make me feel crazy.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

So your choice is to dumb yourself down to the norm?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

It's not acceptable.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

No. And I don't do it. But I do walk around like a crazy man. They will make me believe that I'm crazy and that, you know, I got to bring it down to the norm. And I'm like, well, we all know that a. That's not happening. B. That doesn't sound correct to me. In life anyway. So I just have always wanted to do my very best and be the biggest I could be because the company I keep. I believe in luck because I just do. I just.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

And you experienced it.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

I've experienced luck, you know, but I'm more blessed than I am lucky. And I would never perpetrate to be something I'm not. So my whole life has been this question of everybody, you know, what happens next. And you know, I learned from a very early age with trauma, I learned very early that we, we weren't getting out of here. And if we were, it was the only thing any of us were going to do and we're all going to do it differently. That makes it pretty original. But since everybody's doing it, how original is it really? It sounds like the same for everybody. So I got to dig in on that. So the only way to dig in on that, you know, that I did, was that I grasped a hold of free will pretty easy and pretty early in life because I went to church before school because that was the first daycare. So mom and dad had to be at work early, so they dropped off. And you have the oldest pastor giving it because he's up at 3:30. Yeah. And you know, it's a little hard to connect with the dude in the sermon because he's older and stuff, but, you know, he's got a life of wisdom, so you should listen. So when Paul would say to me, you know, you're going to change metal, you know, this isn't any disrespect. What I would say is I would. I looked at him and I said, does that mean, like, I'm gonna change the leather jacket and the jean jacket with the patches? I'm gonna get to like motivate some stuff, you know. And he's like, yeah, you know, yeah. And he's like, but that stuff's still gonna be around. I'm like, hey, I'm not knocking it. Yeah, you're saying I'm gonna change metal. And I don't have brothers and sisters. I'm only child that lived in my basement. Anything I got, I had to get myself. There was no one helping, so I don't know what metal is too. Paul Gray would watch Slayer in a parking lot in LA somewhere, you know, before their big time Slayer, like in a parking lot. He's telling me these stories, you know, East LA kid, you know, our Culver City and going to these shows. And he did really well with me and he showed me my path, and he thought my path was crescendos and breakdowns and big rejoices. So he showed me Rage against the Machine. He went right to the big breakdown, actually played into it and played it before it. So I didn't even really get to hear it go down. He's like, oh, sorry. Back play. It comes down, you know, you. I won't do what you tell me, you know, Boom. And I just looked at him, and he handed me the tape. He's like, that's yours. He's like, that's who I think, you know, you're. And he was right. I was a 4.4 drummer. I play some jazz, but I. I'm really good at 4.

[Corey Taylor (Slipknot Vocalist)]

4.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

What's the music you grew up on?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

I grew up on Monterey Pop Festival. Hendrix, the Band, Elvis. So much Beatles, you can't even imagine. I mean, my mom would tell me once a week, don't ever forget the Beatles are the greatest band ever and always will be.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Yeah.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

And I'm like, whatever, you know, I'm like, who's flat top?

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Turns out she was right.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Yeah. And then get the PhD in rock and roll. And, you know, I'm working with you. And we're. Greg Fiddleman tells me, hey, half this board is the double fantasy board or whatever. And I'm like, you know, so, yeah, Beatles. Lennon's my. My sort of superhero. You know, he. He'd be who. Who I probably would have hung out with.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Yeah.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

If he would have had me.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Was there a Seed idea for Slipknot?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Well, interesting enough, there was like, a Walgreens in a mall. And my mom was walking me in the mall, and I was holding her hand, and I was on the right side. And they put the vinyl in the window. Big, long window. It had to be 30 foot long. And you just see all the new releases out in the front. And Kiss, Dynasty. The silver got me and the black got me. And I just stopped, and my mom's hand went. And I was just staring at Gene Simmons. And my mom goes, you like that? And I go, yeah. I don't know. What is it? And she's like, let's go look.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

She had never heard of Kiss before.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

First Experience. And we walked around the corner, and she goes, is this it? I go, yeah. And she goes, what do you like about. I'm like, look at this guy. I go, I want to look like that. I told her that. I go. I go, that's me. And she goes, what do you mean, it's you? I go, I don't know. I go. I realize it's makeup. I'm like, is this a band? And she's like, yeah, it's a band. And this is what they wear. And I was like, that's what I mean. I'm like, if I was wearing makeup, I'd be this guy. I would not be the guy with the star. The cat's cool. It's still, too. It's not you, it's not me. And I'm like, I love the space man, but he's got to be the guitar player or something, you know? Like, he's NASA. So I'm like, I'm. I. I'm worried about this space. I'm not going to that space. But, Gene, those eyes and that conviction. Sweet. My mom's like, let me look at it. She looked at it. She's like, I'll get it for you if you want it. I was like, that'd be cool. So we got it, went right home. And I'd already been taught how to work vinyl, was listening to my mom's records.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

How old were you? Would you say?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

It's way before sixth grade. It's got to be third or fourth grade. It's pretty. It's pretty early, you know, 80, 81. But I can remember sitting in front of my mom's stereo, Indian style, you know, just checking it out, and I'm like. I said, I'm an only child, so my imagination is where I live, so that I can just sit there and just. I'm. I'm already playing things in my mind. So then they started buying me all the records. I remember they got me Destroyer next.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Yeah.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

And then my dad went on a trip, and he came back with Kiss. Alive, too. And when I saw the picture of Gene on the back with the sweat and the blood, I was like, okay, this isn't a bunch of guys just wearing makeup. I don't know what this guy's about. Like, I'm not into dark, scary stuff, but it was me, you know, I'm like, I want the blood. And, you know, I went through some stuff as a kid, and who knows where the real brain goes because of what we go through or why I literally want it to be Gene Simmons? I don't know. Was it because my mom would explain the Bob haircuts that the Beatles had, and then she would explain Jim Morrison and go, look at how beautiful he is. She's like, if. If I wasn't married to your dad, and I could I. I would hang out with Jim Morrison. But if I wanted to be dirty, it'd be Rod Stewart. And I'd just be like, mom, what are you talking about? But so I learned a lot. But anyway, that was my first thing. Lots of records start coming, and then somehow I was on my journey. So, you know, Quiet Riot came. Motley Crue, everything. Acdc. I mean, they. They're a big contributor to my life. I mean, I could talk to you for hours and hours about just what they are. God. I mean, man, I don't think a lot of people know that. They have a movie, Let There Be Rock, you know, that movie. And when they would show it in a movie theater in Des Moines, people would dress up like Angus Young. And when he would do solo, they would run up and down the thing, the hat, the schoolboy stuff, and we'd all stand up. And this is just a movie, you know, and we're in Des Moines, so we're lucky if. If anything makes it. But I saw Kiss was my very first concert. And I remember there was a smell in the air, and I was like, I don't know what that smell is, but I like it. And I feel like I'm at home with that. I go, I don't know what it is. I remember talking to my friends like, what is that?

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Yeah.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Someone's like, it's marijuana or whatever. And I was like, smells good. And then I noticed that all the high schools were there because I was. I just grew up in a different time where there was a lot of static if you were in the wrong part of town. And that's how you did it. There was no Internet, you know, you just. How you burn off steam, I guess.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

So Kiss brought everyone together.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Kiss brought everyone together. And I was like, I'm home.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Yeah.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

I don't know how I got here. I didn't know this existed. And I had gone to a lot of shows with my dad. He took me to Jerry Lee, Ray Charles, a lot of B.B. king, John Cougar Mellencamp, Dolly Parton, Bo Cephas.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

But those were more things he liked.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Yeah, my dad said this. He goes, I don't really understand what you kids listen to and what that's about, but if you're going to get into music, I want you to know where it came from. Your mom does a real good job telling you about the Beatles and the Doors and stuff, but I'm going to take you to Ray Charles, and you're going to get older, and you're going to say, I saw Ray Charles and you're going to be able to explain because you love music and you're going to get goosebumps and you're going to feel this. So I remember having a big opinion about the shows my dad would take me to.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Yeah.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

And I really look forward to him.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Would your parents play music in the house?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

My mom, my dad. And I mean this in the most loving way, you know. But my dad was an alcoholic and he had a lot going on and so he wasn't really present because of things he was suffering from, you know. So mom played the music and she noticed very early that I gravitated to it, that I could get some peace and that maybe it was even better than going out and playing kickball because maybe I had some built up aggression a little bit. And I'm actually, you know, got some things going on because of what's going on here. But we're not going to know that until I'm older and I'm being imprinted. But music. You know, I almost got expelled out of high school for temper and they finally did this biofeedback crap on me and I lost my way. They brainwashed me basically for a bit. But I had music and I had my friends and I had. And music never gave up on me. And even though I couldn't get. I pulling they clockword oranged me like straight up. I couldn't get angry. Saved my life. And I was so good at biofeedback.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Sedate you, though.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

It was two things on my. I'm sorry. I'm.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

That's good.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

You know, I'm a scattered rick. You know, it all makes sense. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

It's all good.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Okay.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

You never have to apologize.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

I'm everywhere. I really try to reel it in, but in my book, let it go. It's all the lures.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

You are free.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

That's your strength.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

It is. It is. And I'm learning that I need to. Yeah, I'm learning. It's my strength.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

It's all good.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

I hate that it took me to my 50s to. To realize my strengths, but that's what wisdom is. Anyway, it was a electrode thing here, here. Just glued and it was a tool machine. And I had to sit with the freshman counselor and I had to listen to a tape and the tape would tell you, you know, breathing at first. I didn't know at the time that I had sleep apnea. I was only sleeping about an hour a night for years. And so I was on a level of a different kind of consciousness and was able to survive. And I'm still that way. Like I looked Yesterday, I got one minute of ram sleep, and I got two hours and 11 minutes of sleep out of seven hours in the bed trying. So I don't sleep. My wife's always afraid I'm going to not ever sleep, and I'm just going to be walking around. And it's hard, but that's who I am. And it kind of works in my favor. But I want to get back. I want to get back. So the tape would say, get angry. And you'd get angry, and it would go beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. You know, and the point was to get it to go be solid. It means you're in full control. You're raging, you're inside thinking you got, like an inner superhero power. And you gotta hone in on it. And when you do that, that thing will stay constant. It will not go beep, beep. It'll. It'll just sit there. And then the opposite is quit making it beep. Slow it down. Get it from going beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. And if you can ever get it to stop beating completely. I was. And I'm not just saying this, I was so good at it. I could go from beep to silence. I was just, like, playing games with it. But what I did was I took it as a chance to get out of class. And I didn't know I was falling asleep in less than five minutes. I had no idea. I had no idea. I disappeared. Every time I'd go in there, I'd get comfortable. He wouldn't say anything. He just put on the tape. I get comfortable. And I'd wake up and I'd be like. And he'd be like, how you feel? I'm like, I feel great. And he'd be like, yeah, we're done. I'm like, what happened? He's like, nothing. You start falling asleep. You were today, it was three minutes, and I was like, what's going on? But, you know, and then I go to football, and I was kind of a star nose guard, and they were going to put me on varsity and stuff. Done toast. Just couldn't. Couldn't get down, couldn't. Couldn't do anything. So music didn't give up on me. But I don't think I was doing what I wanted to do. I was more, like, chilled out, playing, maybe trying to get a little more technique. Rather get my Keith Moon out and not give a shit. Like, my cymbal's on fire. Unfortunately, I had a teacher kept challenging me in class, and, you know, I told him I didn't read the book. I'm like, I'm sorry I didn't read it. You can give me an F, please. Just. Yeah, not in front of all these people. And people were laughing and. And then he kept going. And then I was like, can I just go out in the hall? And next thing I know, I had him in a corner with a desk. And I just was unaware that I had even done that. But I just heard people laughing and laughing and I had no sleep. And, you know, I'm going through stuff like people go through and. But I say all that because I, you know, bring it back around. I. Music and my upbringing in more or less a military private school without being total military, but very dress code. And you had to be shaven. You know, I could grow a mustache since I was in, like.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Did you like the experience?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

No. You could be hit by grown men and. To which I was once and never again. That was the first and only time someone besides someone that might have been in my family or someone I was ripping my mouth off to. This was just a grown man who had the ability to give me a little thing in my diaphragm. And I'm 14 years old. He's in his 40s, and scared the living. I mean, he's a big dude. He'll throw down. You're not going to talk back. He's the disciplinarian, Dean. He's got high blood pressure. His face gets red. I said the wrong thing. And, you know, he gave me a reminder and it stuck. I was like, no grown man will ever put their hands on me again because of my mouth and my attitude and no sleep. And no one understands me. No, no, no, no, no. No grown man is going to touch me ever again because it. It scarred me. I have taken a lot of benefits from it. You know, if you look at slipknot, I. I love military issue feeling. I like to have a purpose. I like to be on time. I like to be separated. The culture, you know, the community. The community works hard. They're looking for anything and have chosen you and given you their hard earned money. So I want to come out not authority, but like, you know, I'm here for business. You know, I came on time. I'm in shape. Hair's cut like shit's tucked in. You're gonna get a show kind of, you know, so I love that. And so professional. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And imagine the girls at a Catholic school, you know, I mean, they're all trying to outdo each other. So, you know, the shirts get more starched, you know, crazier collars, you know, I mean, everyone's looking top notch. It's not fun being told what to do. But if you can make it through and later in life, you're like, you know, I like making my bed. When I come back later, it's made and I can start fresh. I don't have to try and put together something. So I took a lot of benefit.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Good habits.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Good habits. Discipline, the right way. I don't know how I graduated. I think they just got me out. I would bet money on it. It was a different time. There was no way they were dealing with me. I pulled up on senior finals day, and I had four tests and I had to get Ds in order to get out of high school. I pulled up, my bro pulled up. He's like, are we going to Pink Floyd? And I was like, you driving? He goes, yeah, I grabbed my cigarettes, I got his little Chevette. We got on the highway with like 60 bucks between us, took off to Northern Iowa to the Unidome and Cedar Falls, and watched Pink Floyd do the momentary lapse of reason. Yeah, Dogs of War, all that stuff. Anyway, Unidome, we pull up, totally blow off senior finals. I'm flunking anyway. I'm like, I'm going to Pink Floyd.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

How was the show?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Oh, my God. I chose to be sober for it because, you know, we drank beer and stuff back then, and I was like, no, I'm gonna.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

You want to take it in?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

And by then, by then being a senior, I mean, I'm already been through the Zeppelin, the who, you know, the whole class. Because older kids are like Pink Floyd and now Pink Floyd, obviously, with me. They got the movie, they got the videos, they got the art, they got the crazy songs. That's what I always wanted for Slug. I wanted to be the slipknot, Pink Floyd, you know, have the art, you know, have other things, driving. If the riffs are going to be there, why not have a Phoenix with the riff and have it work together because of band members. So anyway, we went. And one thing I'll tell you that blew my mind was we were walking around the Unidome and it's the kind of dome that you can see the sky. And it started off with, like, birds, you know, I was like, are there birds in here? You know, what is this? And then it turned into some other weird albatross sounding thing or something. You're like, I have no idea. But you're picking up on stuff. And then it's like a helicopter and it's close. You're like, what? Then it's planes. Then finally someone tells us there's a quad stereo set up. And I look up and it's the first time I saw speakers on the sides, in the back, in the front. And Pink Floyd's playing things flying back and forth. They're like, you know what? Zap the herd. Some zeppelins and some helicopters an hour before we play let's get it started. So for me, I was like, this is what I live for. And like these gentlemen had a meeting and it's somebody's job to make the helicopter go at 4:30. I'm like, I gotta be in this business. So then right when the sun goes down, and I read this in the paper, but right when the sun goes down, shine on your crazy diamond starts playing, you know, all this stuff, and everyone just goosebumps it. And now there's a different vibe. And I read in the paper that they do that every show. They begin their show right when the sun sets. So every day it's somebody's job to say, today the sun in Cincinnati is setting at this time. Yeah, yesterday it was this time. Get your tea because we're moving up a half an hour. And I just thought, rock and roll. You know, they had the pig and the flying testicles were as big as a bus, you know, and it was just flying over. People had the eyes. And then there was the bed came flying down with the guy on it. None of us saw that. And an explosion and changed my life. Changed my life. And then I got to take my mom to it several years later. But that was Division Bell. They played in an outdoor stadium in Ames, 30 miles away. And I didn't buy tickets. I told my mom I was going to get scout tickets. And she was really mad. I said, just trust your son. I learned a couple of things, man. This is my people. And she's like, whatever. And I went over and I'm like, here's my guy. And I went over and I got. And I walked her up to the 15th row. And my mom was in tears.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Wow.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

She was just like, how? And I was like, mom, it's just money. Like, somebody got some tickets and they asked for four times and going to pay rent. And my mom's here and we're here. And she just. She loved comfortably Numb. And she loved that band. So again, religious like you can't be in a band. You know, Slipknot can't exist if I'm not going to full duty. My duty and my soul. And I have peers like Pink Floyd introducing how far you can take it. Not. Not saying this is how you should do it. This is how we do it.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Yeah. Examples of what it can be.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Look at what we stumbled across.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Yeah.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

We're not going to have opening bands and we're going to play right at sunset and people are going to remember it. And here I am, 30 odd, 40 years later telling the story, you know, so cheers.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

I never heard that before either. And it's a great idea.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

It really hit.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

It connects you to the planet. It's like it's much bigger than the music. When it's in time with the cycle

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

and everyone just thread it in. True vibration.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Yeah.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

True frequency.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Through all of this, through your love of music growing up, did you know this is what I'm going to do?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

I did same first Kiss concert. What happened was King Cobra was playing, which was cool. Carmen had a book out Modern Drummer. I was learning off that book. So here he is, the guy that has the book, and I'm learning how to play boots. Boots from him, from his book. And he's little square vinyls that I'm listening to on my mom's turntable. And they're so analog. If you can ever get your hand on an original Modern Drummer book that has the original square plastic vinyl, it's every drum beat. Yeah. He'll be like, all right, number 33. And a 1 and a 2, 1, 2. And then it's like straight Zeppelin. And if you're a kid, you're like, I'm gonna play drum. I'm like, I listen to how greasy this is. And the bass drum comes in on an offbeat and that's where you get that. So what happened was it was them. And then I wanna say Faster Pussycat and Faster Pussycat did some stuff because they were the very first band I'd ever seen used direct input sampling before the show. So they, the lights went out, strobes hit, and it was a voice through direct input. Just faster, faster, faster, cat. And it just was so loud and just art. And I was like, what is this? This obviously isn't the band, but obviously the band made this. So they played. Not really my thing, you know, I could never get into anything glam, you know, but anyway, lights hit and there's a light on a tunnel over Here that they didn't turn off. And the way I am, I'm like, someone's fire. They didn't turn off the hallway. I can see the band. And I'm like. I can see the band. I'm like, that's Gene Simmons. And I can see Gene Simmons in this hallway in his stuff. And I'm like, somehow I'm not separated somehow. He seems right here, like Dynasty, you know? And I watch him, and what happens is he goes from the hallway out to the dark, and there's someone with him. And I now know it's just a security guard. But back then, I'm like, who is this person with the flashlight? And I watch him, and they make sure Gene, in those big boots, they make sure he gets over to these stairs and they light it, and they show him where to put his hands. And in my mind, I was like, here's the deal. Hopefully I will play and practice and earn the right to be on that stage, to be a performer in frequency. That's the way I want it.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Yeah.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

But if not, I'm carrying the flashlight. I'll be with one band my whole career. There'll be stories about me, about how I know things before things. And before I get fired, I'll go on a vacation till I missed before the drama starts. So I'm like, I will be that guy. I will get a manager job. I will get. You know, I didn't know about Front of house.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

No, but you knew this was going to be your life. In one aspect or another.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

One aspect or another. So we get signed, we come to.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Tell me how the band comes together. What's the first conversation?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Well, it's a good one because Jim Root, the guitar player, was the last member to get into Slipknot. We were already signed when he came in. Okay. Why I bring this up is because all of us were in different bands and we all opened up for his band. I see he was in the biggest band, Metal band, thrash. They had lanyards. Jim's hair was down to his butt.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

How much of a scene was there, Rick?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

We could. I mean, I can't even tell you. You know, it's so big, you wouldn't believe it.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Just a local scene of cool bands.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Yeah, you wouldn't. We're all older now, and we look

[Interviewer (Rick)]

back, Everybody was in a band.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Everybody was in a different band. So Paul Gray and our original singer were in a band. My band was going to go first. I played. Then Paul runs up to me because I'm sort of punk. Yeah, and, you know, kind of Sub Pop meets Steve Albini, you know, Pixies, whatever. That's who we are. Real. You know, we're a little crazy. Paul comes up and he's like, bro. I. And I realized he's from California, so he. We feel a little California to him. So we hit it right off. And that's how it started. Me and him and the original singer. Then I met Joey because he opened up for him. The next time I got asked back, we opened up then. Joey's band was second. And I remember going out to Joey. He got done with his set, and he went outside to get some air. And I just jumped up on the stage and walked outside. I was older than everyone. I could get a beer. I walked outside and I was just staring at him. And he looked at. We didn't know each other. And he looked at me. He's like, what? And I was like, I just had to see if you were human. Like, I'm like, whoa. I'm like, you are a real person. Wow. Congratulations, man. I've never seen in my life. I've never seen. I didn't know you could play drums like that. No, I had no idea.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

I don't think you can.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

I don't think you can, Rick. I don't think you can. You know, so one band, kind of in the same circle. Jacoulius. It was American, I thought.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

What was the band called?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

It was a band called 35 Inch Mudder. And he was. I think he was interested or something. But they were. They were just way too much like Rage against the Machine. Even the singer looked like Zach.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

I see.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

But anyway, I say this because there was so much. I hate to use the word competition, but, man, you would think this was every town. But as we got older and we look back on our lives, we as a band are so amazed. On the dozens. One day we were in Tokyo. We were going from the hotel to the venue. And me, Corey Taylor and Jim Root started naming off all the bands we played with. It was over 50. They just kept coming.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Wow.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

And we're like, what is going on with Iowa and Des Moines? And, you know, man, tech was different.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Yeah.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Tech was the guitar. Someone who needed to be challenged picked up a guitar instead of Atari. But they're the same person.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

But they're like, no, no.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

And there was nothing else to do.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Nothing. Nothing. Zero. I can remember playing drums and then eating dinner going, I'm getting back down there. I want to hear that. Yeah. You know, I want to hear that.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Yeah.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

You know, and that's what went on. So, you know, I really have a hard time when too many people say that music changed. It's not that music changed. Tech changed, People changed. It's not the music that we've all come from, but it'll all come back around. I've seen a resurgence in tapes. I mean, these kids stay there like, look at this. It's a cassette. It's analog. And you're like. You see yourself want to get mad and be like. But with me, I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. See, the real stuff will always come back. And these kids will ask, what is an arrangement?

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Yeah.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

What was Robbie Robinson doing up in this house? Well, lots of things. And throwing down music was the majority of it. And it was. I came from a place of God, you know, and so don't mess around with pro tools too much. You're not really actually learning anything other than combining yourself with tech and creating a new way, and so be it. But, you know, we all get to be around. And, you know, I just did some music, and my assistant told me, wow, your. Your record is so different than everything. I'm like, it's not that it's different. It's just that I come from a school that if there's a song, what's it sound like? If the song's called grime, what does grime sound like? What are the drums like? Are they in the corner or the drum room, or are we putting them outside? What's the song? What's the story? What's the sound of the guitar?

[Interviewer (Rick)]

It's not all the same.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Yeah. So, you know, you go in to write a record and engineer's like, what are you thinking? Okay, it's ambient. I want to get some CB mics underneath. When the bridge comes, I want to. I don't know if there's a lot of that going on, and I don't know if it's their fault, because they just don't know, because we've let a lot of us have let it go because of money. Studios become expensive. No one wants to use tape. You know, you don't have to. Which. And it's not really the music industry's problem, our artist problems. I just think the tech and the planet Earth moves in a forward projection. And I talk like this because, you know, I used to think I was really important. I used to think like, you know, I'm the clown.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Yeah.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

You know, and now.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Well, you are.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

I am. I'm super important. But you know what I mean? Like, I had to learn ego, and I had to learn, like, what really is important and what importance can do for importance.

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[Interviewer (Rick)]

How did you end up with nine people?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

You know, it was a sound. I can remember Joey and I sitting around and he grabbed me all the time after practice and be like, nine. And I'd be like, so what? And he'd be like, nine, you know, and he knew every band on Roadrunner. He knew every band ever. Yeah, you know, and he'd be like, you know, and you'd be like. I would always tell them, like, don't orchestras have more than nine people? I mean, I was at the symphony once. I swear to God, there had to be 50 people. Yeah. He's like, yeah, but that's different. People fly independently. I'm like, do they? Do you know that for a fact? It's still 50 adults getting on a plane, getting somewhere to be themselves.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

So did you decide on nine in advance of knowing nine people? Tell me how it happened.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

I had a vision of three drummers. I wanted a triangle. I had lost my ability to learn for a moment. On drum set, I was repeating myself. I was really trying to learn. I hired a jazz drum teacher. I was really stuck in a locomotive. I was on a rail, on a certain engine with certain coal, and I just had to get off and hitchhike. So I'm a professional welder. And I had a good friend that was listening, and he's like, hey, you said you wanted to make some shit. So we went in, he got the. The place we worked, and we got it for the weekend. We made. Took my first drum set and we got it up so I could stand up. And then I had a relationship with a junkyard guy. No one's supposed to be able to buy from there, but I walked in and he's like, you're a curious little fellow. And I'm like, hey, man, I'm in a band. I want to get some kegs and stuff. And he's like, you're an art student, right, with the university? I'm like, yeah, I'm an art student of life. And he's like, get whatever you want. Put it in a pile. You have cash? I'm like, I got cash. And so I'd walk around and I'd get kegs and 30 gallon drums, 50 gallon drums, everything and anything that I thought had a sound. So the original lead singer was a drummer too, and he felt he lost his way on drumming and he felt he didn't have what it took for the technique. So if they were going to do him and Paul and Joey, all those guys were in death metal bands, and Andy was a drummer and he just felt he couldn't cut that drumming. So he wanted to be a singer. And he can growl, and to this day, he's the man. So he's like, I'm not gonna give up my drumming either. And I was like, you played those? So I made him drums and I had drums. And originally Slipknot was less people, and the original lead singer was the other drummer, and he was more upfront. And what was wonderful about that situation is he was a very technical, if black metal thrash.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Other musicians as well, or just the three of you?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Paul Gray playing guitar, Andy Rao playing the drums and singing. A gentleman by the name of Donnie Steele was playing guitar and I was playing drum set, right? And we all agreed that there was going to be a metal drummer coming in. But, you know, and I always hated that because I told him, I'm going to stand up. But, you know, I was jamming and I was, you know, so you just have to learn, you know. And then one day I was in Colorado and. And Paul invited Joey to come over without telling me. So I drove back from Colorado.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

You already knew Joey, though?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Yeah, I knew him.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Was this after you had seen him?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Yeah, yeah, several times. Yeah. So Joey didn't was told I wasn't going to be at practice. And I left Colorado at like four in the morning, Left my family and I came to practice. My wife thought I was nuts. I was like, joey's not coming to my band practice. Wow. So I came and we played three songs. And I looked at him at the end, I just looked at it and I said, need me to play anything again? He goes, nah. I was like, I didn't think so. I was like, you want to use my sticks? He's like, could I? And I go, yeah. He took them. And he goes, is it okay if I play your drum set? And I was like, of course, man. That's what we're here for. And I'm big brother, man. And I'm much different person. I'm pretty aggro. Dreadlocks. I'm ready. I am. It's time for life. I got two kids, you know, It's. It's time to get going. Either shut up or. Or get a job. So he sits down and he goes, can I move the snare a little bit? And I go, of course. And he goes. And I was like, right? And then Paul's like, you want to jam one of them? He goes, let's play that last one, which was the song Sick, which is the first song we ever wrote, you know, man, they counted that shit off. And what I remember most, besides what he was doing, is the incredible ability to retain what those guys just played with me, you know, it was like a tornado hit my life, you know, I was just like, I have no idea what's happening right now, but I was so impressed on the. He just heard it once. I was the drummer. Disregard it. Taken to a level of insanity one time through, from beginning to end. And I just didn't know talent like that. I didn't know practice like that. I didn't know talent. So we did a bunch of things, and then I got on the drums with the singer, and Joey was just laughing. He loved it. And we got done with practice and we went outside and I go to Joey, I go, okay, are you in or out? He goes, I gotta think about it. And I'm pretty aggro person. I got right up in his face. I go, what do you mean, you got to think about it? There's no thinking about it. You're either in or you're out. That's not how this works, son. You know, I'm like, we got problems. What do you mean? You. You gonna put me on hold? You're gonna put Paul Gray on hold like that. I swear, Rick, it took. It wasn't 10 years. It might have been five, six, seven years. Maybe around the time we did an album with you. Yeah, he told me once, you know, we're having a drink or something. He goes, hey, can I tell you something? I go, oh, you gonna give me something in life, you know? He goes, yeah, I'm gonna give you something. You're gonna like it. I go, what? He goes, you know, that day you asked me if I, you know, wanted in. I told you I'm gonna think about it. I go, yeah, that might have started me and you off in a bad way, you and me, you know, and we're laughing and he goes, well, the truth is that if you wouldn't have let me in the band, I would have taken your idea and started. Son of a bitch, I would have done it. I'm like, what do you mean you would have done it? And he's like, I would have got Paul. I would have done the three drummer thing, but a little different. I was like, you know, now we're arguing again, you know, But I was like, thanks, man, thanks. You know. And he goes, bro, I just practiced and did my thing and had played with so many people. And then you show up with three drums and you're, you know. Because I was in right away, man. You know, I'm playing just like I play now, you know, just really, you know, so. And then what happened was we were like, paul's going to play bass, so we need another guitar player.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Why did Paul switch to bass?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Because Paul's originally a guitar player. Yeah. And maybe he just wasn't going to be as good as he needed to be as fast as we were moving. I see he was a genius. And if he wanted to get up every day and practice more, he could do anything. But he, you know, he's, you know, we were slow moving together, you know, so bass was easier, he could write. And Joey and Paul were always like, no, this is. This is starting. So we got the drums. Paul's like, I'm gonna have to do the bass to communicate and write the riffs with Joey. And we're gonna need guitar players. So we got a guitar player that was in Joey's band. His name was Josh Brainard. Josh Brainard is actually on our first album. He quit after we came home. We went back to Indigo Ranch with Ross Robinson for another three months to redo one song. Spit it out. And that's when Jim came and we redid. Spit it Out. At the same tempo. But the version we did in Des Moines ourselves just smokes all of it. So they had to keep it, you know, and no one was really happy about it because you got this album made up at Indigo Ranch. But then you have this song that got assigned that we recorded it ourselves that you can't recreate. So if you go to the first album self titled, the version that is on the self titled, Spit it out is our original record recorded in Des Moines, Iowa. So Sid was added to it and Ross and Joey did a mix. So it's, you know, a different version as far as quality. But just to give you a little information, the reason why it happened was Ross, when we pre pro and record it, we did a faster version and a slower version, but he didn't do one the same tempo because he thought, you have this.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

I see.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Then we went away and the label's like, no to the fast one, no to the slow one. We should really try to get one the same. They spent all the money to try to get it. And you just couldn't create because it's magic. It was our. When Rick. When we were in the basement and that happened, we stopped and looked at each other and we all knew Something entered reality and it was different.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

It's the greatest.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

It was the greatest. I tell people it's never been better than that.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

That's it.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Never been better than that. I remember looking at people and we only got half the song. We played it 50 times, 30, 50 times to try and get somewhere, but we only got to like half. We were all so excited to come in the next day. Four days later Wait and bleed, you know, just starting to roll A week later Liberate A week later no life just now it's just, you know, we're revising now, like poetry. We're like, let's go back to sick and look at a few things and oh, man, spit it out. Just. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Can we listen to that?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Yeah.

[Corey Taylor (Slipknot Vocalist)]

Did you never give a damn in the first place? Maybe it's time to be when the tables turn because the interns have all evolved. I got the problem solved in the fridge is killed.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

You.

[Corey Taylor (Slipknot Vocalist)]

Break through the noise Gotta be that way if you want it Saturday Literal profanity Smack. Get out. All you want to do is drive me down all you want to do is step me around Smack, Baby it's the way you got to spend a lot of room I find people know you love the spider label when you realize about third I guess it's time to bury Your ass with the chrome straight to the dome Hear me right, bitch, I didn't stuff. And if you know what's good just shut off a vague brother back down don't you know your. Louder Come on, get a face full of power no, nothing. Nice. Smash. All you want to do is shut me down all you want to do is stand. I set this record straight all the needles making me irate Sick of my falling on their fears where you going to be in the next five years? The club. When all the fools and all the politics get you sick you got dick. When I find out the good stuff, Bam. Are you sick of me? Good enough, not enough me I'm all of the enemies me Lord to Dr. Me down I want to.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

So that's the first song.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

That's the one that when you hear Corey, that's what did it. That was the one. No one could quit humming. And you know, Corey was fairly new to being in Slipknot. Original lead singer left. Corey was in month or so in Spit It Out's written. So even if you were gonna do it later, you would never get that conviction of someone trying out for something he wants in his life. There's a whole other reason to come to bat. Being asked to come to bat for a different reason. You're going to get different results. That's my career. And I wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for Corey. Yes, I believe in everything. Musically, I mean, we're Slipknot. But, you know, my partner, my bro, he brought that melody. And we were able to make the flower, so to speak. The pollen, the petals, the whole deal.

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[Interviewer (Rick)]

What was the first show you guys ever did?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

First show we did was a Thursday night in a bar that I ended up buying to get assigned. It was called Safari. It's next to a law college called Drake University. I live right down the street. Sort of inner. Not. Not sort of inner city. Yeah. Maybe about eight blocks from where it went down, you know, every night, the bar. I knew the owner, good friend of mine. I said, look, look, we all grew up in this bar in the south side. It's too far. I'm gonna create a new scene. We gotta do a new thing. You have bands here. I want a Saturday night. He's like, I'll give you a Thursday. It's like, all right, whatever. So we get a Thursday. And I ask him, I say, hey, can I come down and clean the stage and the bar? And he's like, what are you talking about? I'm like, dude, I'm like, you got every band who ever played. Like, they're not even good flyers. They're ripped up and there's staples everywhere. Drumsticks. I'm like, there's a glass of piss. I'm like, I'll do it for free. I'm like, my band's playing, man. It's got to be on. He's like, you're nuts. Gives me the key. I go in there. I clean the whole place with my kids, and we're pulling staples and want it to look nice. I get the wires. Done. So we have a show and I say all this because we play. We get about 150 people there. Maybe 50 to 150. I don't know. We could watch the video and Corey Taylor's there, and we throw down.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

What's the reaction?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

People are just like, we're a lot scarier. Okay?

[Interviewer (Rick)]

I mean, how could you be scared?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

We're scary. Because we have no. There's no rules.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Yeah.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

And we have no care of the outcome. We have no money.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Yeah.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

We have no fame. We only have each other.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Yeah.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

It's us against you.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Yeah.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

And I'm gonna take these sparks and I'm gonna fly sparks over the crowd. I'm gonna do it, and you can't stop me. I know it's Des Moines, Iowa, and I'm probably gonna go to jail, but this is what. So we were just. We were. You know, the original singer wore a. A fur that used to be my My aunt's like the Shaw. It had all these minks, and he wore it over long underwear. And then he'd go get Boonsberry wine and gaff, tape it up. And it was scary. We were slower and we just. We had a thing and people couldn't move. And we would always come in through the front. So we'd start the sampling and everyone would move. And then we would come in through the front. And I, you know, clown would show

[Interviewer (Rick)]

up your way through the.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

And I. I push. Some biggest guy could just get my hands on his face and go, wow. And he'd be like, turn around. And then he'd go, oh, my God, what is this? And, you know, there he would be. We get on stage. Corey Taylor's at the first show, comes up to me afterwards. He goes, bro, that just changed my life. We're playing tomorrow. We don't have an opener. Do you guys want to play? And I was like, yeah, let me talk to band. We don't do any. I don't do anything that's not planned.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Yeah.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

But if I can get a hold

[Interviewer (Rick)]

of everyone until the show starts.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

That's right. That's right. That's right. Absolutely. So I tell him everyone's still here. Maybe we can plan this. Okay. Because I'll just leave the equipment here and we'll come in and throw down. So it works out. So we open up for Stone Sour, you know, And I don't know if people know that. I'm proud of this, you know, it's great. And. Because that shows you how invested Corey was in his own career. You know, that's his other band. And we.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

And that band predates.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Yes. Yes. 100%. And I'm so proud of that.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Yeah.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

So we open up and they play. We have a great night. More people come. They have a crowd. We get done. Corey's like, this guy comes up and goes, hey, I want you and Cory's band to play over at this house. We're getting kicked out and it's getting demolished, so we're going to break it up. And I was like, it's not planned. We're not doing it. I'm not doing it. Sounds risky. Like, what do you mean it's getting demolished? Like, no, no, no. So I. I decline. I'm like, two's enough. We're gonna regroup. So everyone goes to party. I got kids, I go home and I get a call. Three in the morning. It's Paul Gray. He's like, my brother got arrested at that party. And so did my best friend Frank. Go bail him out. I was like, get out of here. What do you mean, go bail him out? He's like, go bail him out. You got the money? I'm like, man, how much is it? He's like, you know, it seemed like a million dollars. It's like 350 bucks. I was like, all right, I'll see what I can do. So I go over to my dad. I'm like, I'm sorry, man. Got a couple bros in jail. He's like, no problem. Can't have your friends in jail. Gives me the money, I go down. Cops aren't very nice, you know? I'm like, hey, I'm here to. They're like, on. They'll be out here in about an hour. So who's there? Corey Taylor sitting right there. And I go, fancy seeing you. He goes, yeah. Who are you here belling out? I'm like, Tony Gray, Frank Plumlee. He's like, yeah, I'm here to get Junior and Corey Taylor. And I got to sit down for two hours and talk. He didn't know, but I was like, where are you from? Where's your mom? Where's your dad? Did you go to high school? How long you been singing? What's your favorite music? What do you want to do when you grow up? What are you doing with still and Sour? You know, I just really enjoyed his company, and we just got off so well. And then when the time came, everything, all hell was breaking loose with our original singer. We already had a crowd of 1500 people, probably, and all hell broke.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

How long did that take?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

You know, we were big. I started the band when I was 26, and I helped get it signed right at 29, and I was on the road at 30. So a couple years. And then he quit. Well, he was on his way out, and everybody was like, what are we going to do? And I'm like, there's only one thing to do if we're serious. They're like, what? I'm like, corey Taylor. You know, everyone's like, that'll never happen. You know, he likes this type of music. I'm like, man, I'll go talk to him. So we went from a studio, Mick Thompson, guitar player, shows up unannounced, and it's like, hey, guys, what's going on? We're like, andy's more or less just quit the band, and we're gonna go over to the adult podium, which is a porn store where Corey worked nighttime shift. I'm gonna ask him if he wants to try out for the band. And he's like, what? So we drive out there, and Joey and Mick go do their thing. I go up, and Corey sees us from the security camera, and he's like, what are these dudes doing here? We always wore jackets, slot jackets with numbers. So people. I'd be like, like, there's three of them here.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

When did the numbers start?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Real early. Because it just. We wanted a gang, man. You know, it's not about Sean or Paul. It's just like, number six. Yeah, number six. You know, clown. It's like, quit talking to me about my name. It's like, I'm here to talk about Slipknot, and this is one way to get to it. But I'm just number six. You know what I mean? It's like, we're not here to talk about my military school upbringing. We're here to talk about my dedication with my brothers. So get with it.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

It.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Ask me another sports question, and I'm out.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Yeah.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

It's just that simple. And that's how we did it. So numbers, barcodes, a couple logos.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

I wrote your number six. Related to the prisoner at all?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

No. You know, I was pretty diverse in numerology and in a lot of tarot. Six is the sun and nine's the moon. And, you know, I just always knew six was nine upside down. And I just felt like. Like everything happens at six, you know, from zero to nine and come back around, you know, one insinuates two. If you have two, why not three? Four's church Five things are molecular. Six, it's happening, it's going on, it's on fire. Seven, we're on our way we're flying through the solar system Eight, getting ready to sell out nine, we might as well be at zero insinuates rebirth. So I just. Just like all things in Slipknot, I let all choose first. I remember Mick going, I'm number seven. It's my lucky number. I will. No one else can be seven. It's like, dude, you're seven. Joey's like, I'm number one. I'm like, of course you are. Of course you are. Paul's like, well, if he gets me number one, I'm number two. And I'm like, you guys are both dorks. I'm like, go ahead. You got to be number one. And two. They're like, what are you? And I'm like, you know what I am. Everybody knows what I am. And everybody had already decided. And I'm like, they're like, what? What hasn't been taken? I'm like, six, man. They're like. Because six is a pretty. It's a number that's around a lot.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Yeah.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

And, you know, they take it dark, but I don't care. Take it biblical. Take it where you need to, because I am. It's what I've established. And it's the only thing that's going to represent me. And then Sid got in the band and we're like, you know him. Him and I were having a little moment. He's very challenging, which I like. He pushes and you should be pushed. And he's pushing me a little bit on the numbers, right? I go, so what number are you? Because I'm ready to shut him down. You're not going to be 12. You're not going to be 13. He just looks me right in the face. He goes, zero. And at that moment, zero hadn't even crossed my mind. And when he took it, it was like pages were written in a Bible. It was like, of course you are. Yeah. So if you think about it, we're nine guys, but we're zero through eight. And then when the singer left, we had to have a singer that added a number because we had to get someone to play the drums because Corey wasn't going to play those drums like the original singer. Then Craig was an original guitar player who replaced Donnie. And when he left, it was like, don't leave. Just be a sampler. Do the web stuff. Do be proactive. But you do the 808s. You do the Here Comes the Pain. Sid will do the Scratching the Jungle. And then Sid came in, and that's when I was telling you Joey would just be like, 9. What are we doing? Because Joey literally would be like, they're not going to give us enough tour support. I'm like, what the fuck is tour support? My language. But I'm just like, what is tour support? He's like, you're so weird. Like you don't know. And I'm like, what is it you want? He's like, I want to get signed. I'm like, what does that mean? He's like, I want get a record label. And I was like, do you mean like the big W on the back of Diver Down, Warner Brothers? He's like, exactly. I'm like, well, yeah, I like that label, Interscope. And he's like, no, I'm gonna get you a list. I'm like, bro, I'll just go to a bank and get a loan. He's like, it doesn't work that way. I'm like, how's it work? He's like, they set up interviews. They. I'm like, you know, too much. You know, I'm like, you're so dorky. You like. Like, what are you talking about? Like, money spends. You want a bus? We'll get a bus. Like, yeah. He's like, you're dumb. Get this. So I had to learn. And I still have the piece of paper. He wrote down all the labels. American was there. There was all kinds of stuff, but it was Roadrunner first, and then it was Interscope second, because I'm an art guy. And Manson was over there. TVA on the radio. Yeah, yeah. Yes. I was like, if we're going to get big, let's get big like that. Let's be art. And. And, you know, let's not get held down to where I'm wearing makeup for my whole career. And then all the bands, I'll leave their names out of it, but all the bands, man, they hated on us.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Why?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

They're like, well, there's jealousy because we just threw down. We annihilated anything in our path.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Yeah.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Even our parents. You get on my stage, you're going down. I tell cameramen, I'm like, you get on this stage, I'm going to drop kick you, and I'm going to put you in my legs until I squeeze something out of you. And they're like, whatever. And I'd drop kick him. I'd have a camera guy on the floor. He'd be tapping out. I'd be like, bro, this is Slipknot stage, man. This isn't for kids. This is. I leave my family to come up here for God. And God, tonight is 50 minutes. It's not even 60 minutes, man. I drove 12 hours to get here, and I'd broken down bus, get off my stage. I'm gonna live life.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

So would everyone else participate in the Mayhem?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Oh, man, Rick. The best you could ever see. Subnaut is on a stage this big right here. We played on stages from that window to this window. We're like guillotines. Just. You're like, how are they not hitting

[Interviewer (Rick)]

so many people on such a small stage?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

We are just so connected. The one thing we do is that stage. I'm only speaking for me.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Yeah, but you feel like the best version of Slipknot is on the stage.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

We are truly remarkable.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

It's performance.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

It's truly us against everyone for ourselves. It's every man in the band saying, I'm going to give 190 for me because I worked hard to get here. And if I don't, this is. I might as well go get a chili dog and ride that ride and go watch something I don't want to watch.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Has anyone ever gotten hurt at a show?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Oh, man. Dude, see this? This is a broken bicep. Ripped the rubber band right in half. I grabbed a keg. I designed my keg to not have recoil. And it was like a possession had come. I had grabbed the keg and I was so connected to frequency and life and love. And I grabbed a keg and on my parents grave, something pulled it back. It can't pull back. It's not designed to pull back. It's got limp cables. And it pulled back my arm, bent an L and I ripped the bicep muscle. The rubber bands. There's two of them right here, hence bicep. And it was like lightning. It was like I got shot in the head with lightning. It was like a giant storm of lightning. It hurt, it was very quick, but it overtook my whole body, that pain. And it was gone. And I was like, I broke my arm. I broke my arm. And then I was like, no, I can move my fingers. Oh, maybe I moved my fingers because, you know, I'm one.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Yeah.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

And maybe, you know, maybe this shit's screwed. And then I went up to my drums and I saw that there was a certain way I could move. And I had no idea. And people were like, vomiting. I'd be like, hey, is there something wrong with my arm? And people like,

[Interviewer (Rick)]

mangle.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Yeah. I wake up in Virginia, the next day, they get me a doctor. And the doctor's like, you need surgery right away. I'm like, not in Virginia. No offense. They're like, bro, you can't do any more shows. I'm like, listen to me, man. I have a doctor in LA, okay? This guy takes 18 vials of blood. He punishes me. He is going to give me a referral. Okay? No, I'm. I just need to know so I can call him. He's like, oh, you're. You're broke in half, man. And I did eight shows. I did eight shows in that, with that.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Wow.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

And the reason why I could do it is because I could hold a stick. I don't need a bicep. If I could push this against and just go, don't use a bicep, use your wrist. Yeah. And then this guy, it's like, bro, oh, you need to be on fire.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

He's Got a car, throw him up

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

in the air and, you know, and I'd be like. And I'd play my parts, but at least three, four times a show, I'd move wrong and then lightning, you know. And so I had to get a surgery and I have a herniated disc right now. I'm in so much pain all day. And yeah, I mean, Sid, he jumped off, broke his heels like the sun. Like, wow. But he landed evenly and broke both his heels, you know, just, I mean, like this, which was, they said is great because it could heal evenly. But can you imagine? He, he did every show, you know how we did that. He'd crawl out and people just be like sick to their stomach. They'd be so scared of that. He'd be like, he just, just flying across. Or I bring him out in a wheelchair and then I dump him. I'd be like, you know, so we, we, we adorn our, our missiles, our detonations or whatever. I'd have to say one thing I want to say about stories. You know, one thing I've learned as I've gotten older. You know, everybody kind of wants to change the narrative a little bit. And I have to do my best to say out loud, I've lived this experience, but I can only. We call it the way I remember. And you know how the industry and the world just tries to push you to say I and me and I did this and it's me. And so I, I just try to do my best to keep everybody involved in it. Less I and me and more shared. Because that's the way I feel it all is anyway. Of course, it doesn't matter if I dropped a FedEx off. It was for the band.

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[Interviewer (Rick)]

Who's the first member of the band to pass away?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Paul.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

And when was that?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

You know, Rick, I try not to remember. Yeah, it's been. It's been over 10 years now.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Yeah.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

I reunited with his daughter October. She was in her mom's belly when he passed, and I wanted to wait until she was a little bit older. So I've taken her to the grammys, and she's 13, so it's been a minute.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

And he was the person that you started with?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Yep. Yeah, he's. He's the whole reason I'm sitting here. Yeah, he hijacked me from my art career.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

What do you do when that happens?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

So many people innately want to say so blindly. Well, you know, Paul would want you to go on, and I wouldn't say much. And then finally I had enough, and I'm like, did anyone think that maybe I might not want to go on without my friend? And. And just to be honest, sitting here today, man, I mean, you know, I don't know how much more longer I have because it's just the new guys. They're not new guys. They're people. They're my friends. And I got them in and they're great. They're wonderful. I love them, and we have such a great time and good things are happening. But if it's not better than writing that song in the basement, it's certainly no better without one of my best friends. Who was the genius? Him and Joey. They're two of the greatest hard rock writers of all time. And here I am, you know, the art guy, you know, and probably hate it the most because I have to do hard things. I have to be part of hard decisions. And I'm okay with doing that because I'm not going to live lies for myself. I have to live truth. So I'm willing to partake in hard decisions in life. Know, but we. I guess we. We did it, you know, and we. We instead of writing an album and instead of doing anything, we went on tour and did the grieving with our. Our fans. So we probably toured a couple years independently of an album or anything, just to put his bass on stage and, yeah, have two minutes of silence.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

That must have felt great.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Oh, it was. What was really nice was derailing ourselves off of the big mach and reality, the human condition. Like, don't tell me what I got to do. You made me feel important. Now I'm awake, so I'm really deadly now. And if you're not careful, this is what we're going to do. I don't need an album. We don't need anything. We are who we are. Book a show, and everyone felt the same, but we made a thing of it.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

So would you say the shows were like a tribute to him?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Yeah, they all were. Every day we're like, denver, what's up? Yeah, we haven't been here since Paul's passed. What's up? Boom. This is for Paul. Big banners, things.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Beautiful.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Nice. And. And no, you know, I wouldn't let people ask me questions about it. This was life.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Yeah.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Really hard, man. We. You know, I got the call at my house, and I drove my car. I was doing laundry, and I remember I had to put on these Adidas, Italian Adidas that I had. They were football shoes, and they weren't doing it. I remember, like, everything was gone. And, like, I had to go see my friend in these weird clothes because everything was whatever. And I was so mad. It wasn't a fashion show. I wasn't comfortable. I remember pulling up to the place, and I didn't put my car in park.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Starts rolling away.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

It was just pushing against the curb.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Yeah.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

I had already walked to the back of it. I was like, whoa, whoa. People are like, you're fucking your car? And I was like. Like, I was just out, gone. And then, you know, I saw his wife. She was eight months pregnant. And she started screaming, why is there a clown? Why is there a detective here? And I looked over, and there's this great big man. He's just straight up like Clint Eastwood. Like, had the suit, the.

[Narrator/Host]

Wow.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Had the handle, the gray suit, the badge on the belt, you know, Dirty Harry. And he's walking our way. He's a big dude. He looks official, like, different.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Yeah.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

He's not five zero. Like, this is some other. I see him to see what she's talking about. And then I look at her, and she's going down. She's just on her way down. So I run over there and I put my arm under her belly, and if I remember right, I got around her in the back, and then I'm like. Like, I started telling her immediately, like, you're pregnant. You. You, whatever. You got to breathe right now. We're not doing this. This isn't. So we. We got into emotion, and I was able to get her down, and, you know, then all the worst things from there. I went in. I thought I was going to get to see my friend. This guy took me in a. A stairway. And I realized he was questioning me and. And I was crying and I got up and I go, you're questioning me? And he goes, son, listen to me. We don't know how your friend passed. You could be a drug dealer. You could be trying to go in there, erase some evidence. I'm like, you're right. I'm out of here. I'm not talking to you anymore. But thank you. I hope this all works out. What a cliche in rock and roll too. We did the album with you subliminal verses. And then the next album was All Hope is Gone. And I did a photo shoot in an abandoned school. And above the doorway it said, all hope is gone. I took a picture with my gun and it's just my way of the world. Just letting everybody know that on my sideshow I'm paranoid by myself Only child freaked out, leave me alone. I didn't make it through school. That's why I live here and says, all hope is gone. And then I saw my pictures and I told Paul Brown, the photographer, I go, hey, man, go back to the school and take the ego heads. I made these paper mache heads of our faces. And for death masks that we used for our album for Vermillion, we would wear death masks. So I made these giant death masks. I called them ego heads. Because when we're not together, we think highly of ourselves and we just get out. So I wanted to get together and light those on fire. So anyway, I told him, I go take the heads to the stairway. Under that all hope is gone and get a picture, it's worthy. I go, I go, I'm not a real fan of that. I go, I'll put money that some general said that or some lieutenant on a beach. All hope is gone. You know, I go, I don't want nothing to do with that. That he doesn't. He comes back to show everybody the pictures. And I go, watch this, Paul. I go, these guys are going to want to call the album this. So we throw it down. And Corytale goes, all of it's gone. Let's call the album that. And Joey goes. Joey goes, I was going to say that. And I looked at Joey and I go, but you didn't. And I was like, yeah. And he's like, I swear to God, I was like, whatever, man. The history books will say that Corey Taylor said it. And I told him. I go, I knew both you guys were gonna say this. And I get it. We're in slipknot. I go, but even the clown thinks there's hope. I'm like, do you think we should be the kind of band that doesn't promote hope? Seriously, Are we so weird pushing ourselves so much to be anti? What about our kids, man, out there that carve and that we have to talk to and get them straight, you know, and they're like, like, all hope is gone. Paul died after that tour and I knew. I was like, oh, okay. It wasn't for the kids. It was. What? I'm like, what a cliche. I'm like, this is horrible. This is VH1. I can't stand it. This is absolutely no good. Took me. I stopped jamming all together with everybody that I was doing. I. I just thought I'd study myself with SL and see how I could do. And then, you know, turned out the other way with Joey, you know, same thing. It just, it kept going, you know, And I'm number one. And I'm number two. If you're number one, then I'm number two. Okay, guys. Should be careful.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Wow.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Yeah. It's that real? I'm not important, but it's real, you know what I mean? The web I'm in and the voltage that we've let out in the form of frequency electricity and the loss and the love and it's real in a way that hurts and people die. You know what I mean? But like, why do I deserve to be here when two of my favorite hard rock writers of all time. What? It's just a weird path, life.

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[Interviewer (Rick)]

Tell me about the audience.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Best people in the world. I was telling the story last night that I sort of wanted a crowd at the military school. You weren't supposed to wear rock and roll shirts underneath your dress shirts. So I always loved the kids who had the guts to wear the Metallica shirt underneath. I was too scared of getting beat. And I had a mouth, and I just had to be good as much as I could. But, man. And I'd be like, underneath that oxford, there's a freaking Metallica shirt and creeping death. And here we go. That's who I wanted maggots to be. I want to make music for the people that absolutely needed it. If they were put in a situation they didn't care for, and that meant it was their life, and that's who I wanted to be. So, for instance, we played Iowa State Fairground. Used to be the biggest fair, one of the biggest fairs in the world. We finally play there after all my years. And the city of Des Moines so worried that all the black shirts are going to come to the fair. And, oh, no, what's going to happen with this. This devil music or this heavy whatever they think it is. Okay, well, guess what. The black shirts come in. They do an aerial. You can see it filtering in the Hog House. Moving over to the Chicken Cooper Group over here by a W. Root beer. Look at it. It's just in. Just taken over the grounds. Now I want to rest. Not one fight, not one death. No one's hurt. Nothing. Zero. No cops, Nothing. The next night, it's some country band. We got fist fights. Someone goes to jail because they brought a gun. And all that hardcore country is getting it done. And. And it's the fair. So little bit of drinking, little bit of whatever, but not anything on the slipknots. So what I could tell you is these are people that need music.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Do you feel like the music is therapeutic?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Yeah, they need music more than they need to give their opinion about someone looking down on them in front of the popcorn stand. You are not going to get in my way of my favorite band. I work so hard at my store that I'm here, and I'm not going to get in trouble because of you. I'm going to go get my church, and I'm going to feel better about myself tomorrow. And I'm going to go do the best I can. Because that's why we are as big as we are, is because people know that we don't do anything for anybody but ourselves. And they trust that they might not like. Like every decision we make, but they know. But because we made it and we stand by it, we're a trustworthy organization that's not gonna overturn itself on you. We're here because of the kids, you know, the fans, the community.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

It's interesting that people who don't understand the music view it as a negative thing. When you see how much people need it and love it and maybe it's the only place they feel like they belong. I'm gonna stop crying.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

It's true, man. And Rick, the reason why they. The ones that talk, that don't get it, it's just because they're void. They didn't have it. It's not their fault. I don't even know if music can save it, you know, we are the world. I don't.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

More disconnected than it were. Tell me about the art you make outside of music.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

It's a problem. The art I make outside is a problem. Because that's what I was going to do is I wanted to get a PhD in tenure at some fancy college. I was going to wear some weird glasses. I was going to know more about Salvador Dali and Matisse and Edward Moot than anyone on the planet. Impressionistic painting was going to be my expertise. If the History Channel needed an expert, they were going to call me. I was going to know everything, and I was already on my way. The only thing keeping me is I got some sort of speech thing. I think I just didn't pay attention and all that. The classes I needed to. So if you're going to be into impressionistic painting, you better be able to pronounce French painters names and cathedrals and stuff. And I just. That was going to be a lot of work. But I wanted, you know, I wanted to date college girls and have fun, drink beer and just be that real liberal crazy professor. So Slipknot destroys everything in my path, you know, And I told people I could say that to you. And I told people that you were one of the few that would understand and would laugh because it's just, you know, what are you going to do when you make. When you help create something that gives as much as it does, and it literally powerhouses. I could go on and on. Right now I'm currently suffering from Slipknot. Just get out of the way, you know, like, you're not doing that. How dare you think you're going to do that? I don't.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Would you say that Slipknot has a life of its own?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Oh, it's so big, bro. It's so. It's. It's like Van Halen VH. It's like the Van Halen logo.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Yeah.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

You don't even need to see a N. Halen. You just see and you're like, God, I. Look at that. That's a wave. It's like a Peterbilt semi. You know, the dog and stuff. Like Van Halen. That's how big we are. It's like tribal S. Like Slipknot, you know, you hear one bar of tone on the radio, like, could it be. You hear that Slipknot tone? One bar. Could this be new Slipknot? That's big.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

And now you see people all over the world, all over the world wearing masks. It's a whole movement.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

It is. And yet that's probably my zero, right? Like, it's all so big, and I'm just zero. Like, you know, I mean, how do you deal with it? You know? Like, I haven't found the comfortableness. And, like, you know, we're big and it's bigger than me, and I'm the clown, and here I am. But so what? You know what I mean? You know what I mean. It's just weird. It's.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Yeah.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

I learned so much of things I can't put into words to what I would call, people are just grinding. I'm picking up life skills. I've met a couple million people. Pardon me if I barf. Your hand's really wet. I love you, and I'll give you the shirt off my back, but I watched you pick your nose. I've watched you for 40 minutes, and now you're here and you're like, man, I'm going to vomit, but give me a hug. I love you. So. It's just, man, who knew? Man, who knew? I've already accepted that I'm not going to get anything I want in life. I'm married 33 years. I'm blessed. My favorite person in the world is my wife. Four kids, two girls, two boys. I've got it all. But who knows?

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Tell me more about the art you make. I know you make art outside of Slipknot, though.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

I think I can explain it really quick. Like, I've been really, like, trying to solidify my art quicker in case anything ever happens to me. And I haven't done very good speaking about it, because people make me angry. So I go right to 11 and. And I just. That's not the way to do it. I. I should have slowed down and, you know, I should have let people know Like, I would never use AI to write a slipknot song because why would I ever do that? I don't need to do that. But what I do is I look for the glitch in anything in life, and there's glitches in AI And I picked up very early that it was going to get smarter. So I figured the early days when you could get 30 fingers, that this is where we need to be. So I'm way ahead of the curve. So what. What I did was I just sort of started art that encompassed everything. So I started with some words. I went deep in my head, what do I want to see? What's the collection of? The familiarity of life, the database, the machine. Hello, I'm your pocket producer. What would you like to see? All of a sudden? And I'm like, oh, my God, who knew? But it's not anything. It's not human. It's interesting to the human, but it's not that I'm going to even look at it again. So I start there, I do a big print, and then I get a stencil of it, and then I spray paint over it, just slowly destroying it. The human on demanufacturing on all these other layers that could be judged as, I don't know, cheating or not creating, I don't know. But I know that I'm going to get in the machine. And so by the end of it, I've gone kindergarten. So by the end of it, I've introduced poetry, script coding prompts, painting, photography. But basically everything I try to master as a Renaissance man, I get it all in there and then I end with finger painting and I fold it and then I end it. And that's the last layer on that conglomerate of learning in life. The first layer was the recent layer of teaching, of reality. I'm sure when we went green screen, people were as easily angry as they are with AI. Why do they allow the green screen and Marvel movies? It's fake as hell. So that's what I'm doing as of lately, is combining all my talents and smacking them down into one knowledge that makes you really have to decide. I think when you take someone who doesn't need AI and can create anything, but then takes AI creates and then creates everything and brings everything of one canvas, what happens is, hopefully I'm going to make you think more about all of it instead of just AI is taking away jobs and it's not real and it's just like, look, I don't disagree, okay? But everything in life created by humans has a possibility and it is doing good things. Maybe it's doing more bad things, I don't know. But it's a tool. It's a tool, and I'm telling you as a human being, that tool is no good without you. You no good without you. It doesn't print, it doesn't translate, it doesn't sing. It's not in time, it's not even real. But it is a good start.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

It's a tool.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Especially if you can't get someone on the phone or maybe money's a little, you just need to get some things. I love the idea of getting a head start, so I'm really into that. And then there's a game, Minecraft, you've had to have heard of it. So Minecraft gives you the ability to use the engine to make your own. And so I have invented a world known as Vern Earth. And I've taken the engine of Minecraft and I have flipped it because I know a little bit of coding from the day. I'm 56. I was there when it all started. So I've taken Minecraft and turned it on its head. I think it's probably one of the biggest pieces of art I've ever done in my life because I've gone in and changed their parameters. So, for example, they have a pig. Right? Right. I went in, changed the skin of the pig to glass, but what I did was I took their glass block and I took the skin of the glass block, their art, off the glass block, and I gave it to the pig. So now the pig is glass, but their glass block, not some glass block I made. I'm using theirs. So you have that familiarity of their color and their scratch. You're getting mine because I made the last big. But I'm using their block so you still feel comfortable within their world. But what I have created. Oh, my. I never knew.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Can other people see it?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Oh, yeah, yeah. People are playing. I got kids playing with me now. It's online. I've released it. It's called Ver Earth. And you need a Microsoft account like you would any game. And you need to buy Minecraft. And then once you own both of those, like you would Steam or any game, you type in my server. And then. And then you come on and see the clowns on at 3:30 in the morning making an iron farm. And you're like, hi, do you have cows? I'm like, I'll bring some over. And I go over and grab some cows and I'm helping you herd it. And you're like a Slipknot fan going, amazing. Is this real? And I'm like, of course it's real.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

How much time do you get to spend doing that?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

I spent half the day on really. It's all dedication to my mom. She was into science fiction. She had a world, and I made her. She. She passed of dementia and Alzheimer's and TI strokes. And I had asked her if she ever written. Had written a book around science fiction. She said no. And I asked her to write one before she passed. So she did. And it's very intense and it's too intense for me to take on without a team. So I decided that I would birth the world from it. And as I got more organized, then we could say that this was from here, and then I could bring people over there. So that's. I've been working on it four years. I'm on it every minute. I can be. If my wife is watching tv, I will be working on Vern Earth. It's like a soldering board, but it's digital. The things that go on in Minecraft, you can't even. It's based off of automation. So you can trap the automation and you can get the machine making things for you out of your creation. And then you show up and you're like. Like, you made an iron farm. And I have all this iron since I woke up. And it's mindblowing, the creativity and the mind that goes on in this and. And I. All my kids played it and I made a roller coaster and it's all Slipknot themed and I'm really trying to help behavioral health and mental health awareness. So I'm there monitoring people, the way they talk. And, you know, because I have kids of my own and, you know, games aren't. There's a lot of bad stuff that goes on.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

How has being a father changed you?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Well, that's a hard one, because I'm on a path. I end up telling people these days, don't have kids unless you're prepared to look at them one day and realize that you're going to know that you're not going to be there for them. And these are the facts that I tell you about. This is what won't let me get up in the morning is these thoughts of not being here for the people that need me. I can't handle these sort of life lessons. So being a dad and losing a child, I just. It's a fragile thing now and it's been ruined. You Know if one of my kids just randomly wants to call me up at 11 nights, say, I love you, I see the name and I just go to negative. You know, I figure this is not a good call. This late at night, somebody's hurt something, and there's a. I don't know. It can't be a disorder, but I don't think it's a phobia. It's like a. I don't think it's a disease, but there's a thing where people can't be happy because they are convinced that something bad's gonna happen one minute. And honestly, I have that. I have that. And it happens to me every week where just two weeks ago, I was in the studio and I was just. Man, I was feeling good. And then my assistant gets a phone call, and she's, you know what? Where are you? And I was like, who is it? And she's like, chantel. And my wife fell and cut her head open. 12 staples. And I. I told her. I go, man. I actually was calling. I started relaxing. And right when it happened, you called. And it's not your fault. I'm just telling you I'm cursed. I guess where I'm at now, really, because I think I'm being groomed to be strong for the day. I need to be strong. And I don't know when that is. I don't know if that's my death day, but life has made me incredibly strong.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Yeah.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

And I literally drive around in my car laughing, thinking, you know, I have no one to talk to. Everyone's human. What's someone going to tell me that I'm not going to tell them? You know what I mean? Like, I get it. I've got it. I've already. I've been here, so it's a very frustrating place to know. Like, you can't even. But I know it's for higher purposes, so I go with it. And I'm figuring, wow, I made it this far, maybe I will make it the whole way.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

I read somewhere that Rihanna said that Slipknot was her favorite band.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Yeah. That I. I wouldn't know where it is now, but a long time ago, she would wear patches. We have a lot. Lady Gaga. We're starting to be pop culture now. You know, we're going to start having that poster on the wall on the TV show, you know, next to Metallica, next to Guns and Roses.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

So wild.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

It's happening. You know? It is.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Do you feel like you're always in creative mode?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

I'm a Mess. That's all I am.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

It's just mixed up.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

I. If you could just set me off all day long and then have a cot and. And just go. You know, you're going to fall down, and I'll be like, yeah. And then, sure enough, you'll come in and I'll. I'll be toast. All I do, I cook, I create, I take a shower. I create. I'm a gardener, so I get to work with succulents and cactuses now.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

How did you get into gardening?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

My mom was a master gardener, and she always told me that when I understood that I could give life as a man, that I'd get addicted. And, you know, you can give life to a plant from a seed, and I did. Suddenly, that plant, when the raccoon was trying to take my tomato, I took it a little personal. I'm like, dude, I grew this thing. You can have a tomato, but you need to ask. You just don't take.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

And you can't take them all.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Yeah, you can't take them all. What are you doing? So I started doing it. I used to run my mom's plants over all the time, and she'd give them funerals. She'd literally go outside with a flower and some water and cry, and. And I'd be like, God, my mom's weird. But then I got older and I understood. And then, of course, I felt bad for everything I did, but, you know. Yeah, Rick, all I do is. All I want to do is create. That's all I'm good at. I'm not good at anything else.

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[Interviewer (Rick)]

Tell me about the album package where you pull open the package and there's a mirror.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Yeah. So Iowa sophomore albums end up being highly anticipated for lots of reasons. A lot of people think you're going to sell out. That's just talk and chirping around you. Jealousy and people. We'll see if you're still is extreme the next album, when you get a little money, if you do, and all this. So I put a goat on the COVID And there's a lot of reasons for that one. You know, I love what goats represent. True billy goats. You know, they. They piss on themselves. They stink so bad because they're the ones and they protect everyone and they got an attitude. They'll get on your car, they will go through your door. They'll eat your tree. They'll eat a pop can. They'll eat a rock, anything. They are. I mean, they're my favorite, okay. And they're pretty rare in Iowa. They're not everywhere. But what it is, is it's the goats on there. And everyone's obviously like, look, see? Devil music. And then the bottom line is, you open it up, and if you're a good mom or dad and you gotta check it out, make sure there's no blasphemy. Blasphemy on the inside. You open it up, boom, there's a mirror, and you're part of it. And I got you. You know why you're there? Because you're a good parent and you're checking it out for your kid. But look, you're a part of it, and still not. It's a little weird. So it's not a perfect mirror. You know, it's more of like a carnival mirror where you're a little twisted like us. That's because we ask why, and that's what we do here. And why is a hard question for a lot of people. If they're. If they're safe in the. Because I'm not into. Because I'm into learning. You know, I want to know why on everything. So I put a mirror, a portal, and you open it up. And then the way I designed the paper layout, you got to take it, and you can flick it and it'll go. And then everyone's got a picture to sign. Because when we were signing our first one, you had to turn pages. I was like, screw that. In stores are like four hours. We got to move this stuff. So lay it down. Everybody's picture next, you know, Sign next.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

How would you say the band is the same as when you started? And how has it changed?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

We are all wiser. We have all set our ways. There might be a few still looking. There's five OGs. You got the original singer, you got the original two guitar players, you got the original DJ, and you got the clown. Of course we're friends, but we don't hang. And if others do, I don't know about it. And it's not that I don't care, but that we're best up there. And that's when I can love you the most. Because I got an awful, hectic life that I don't think you want to be a part of anyway. You know, there's a lot of. A lot of pain lately. It's been really nice for everyone to be in their 50s. With age comes wisdom, and we're all growing wiser. And it's in our benefit we're able to look at what's happened. The negative, the positive, and the embarrassments, the accomplishments, you know, the. The real love of what we're doing, and we're still doing it. And, and. And we need to. And we won't do anything else, you know, I don't know how much longer I can do it. I gotta. I'm in a lot of extreme pain that I can't get a. In control of because I've given 190 of myself. Yeah, I miss my dudes. Joey used to get on me, man. He was the one. He made me the best I could ever be, you know, I like to think I did that to him. I used to say we were nemesis because we always just argued, but, you know, it's not until someone's gone that you realize they bring the best out of you again. I mean, there's no one in the world that played more drums with Joey than me and Chris Fane. I got to do that. I got to learn from him every night. I got to follow that. That human being.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

I can't get over the number one and number two. It's a wild story.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

And if you knew, you know, knowing Paul. Yeah, you know, he. He would never want to be number one, but he would want number one to recognize that, hey, I'm with you, so I'll be number two. So it was straight, sort of straight fire on ego on the one part. Yeah. And it was just straight love and. And something else. But they were a team. And, you know, I, I hate to say, but, you know, Joey really had a hard time with Paul, you know, going. And I don't think he ever wanted to write with anyone else. I don't think he ever wanted to jam with anyone else. And his dude was gone, you know, and that, that's just how it's felt, you know. And then both of them, one and two, you know, you're just. You can't write that. You can't understand that. You can't take it away. It was only going to happen this way, you know, it's. It's so bizarre. I'm still trying to figure it out, you know, we're not gonna. Yeah. I mean, I imagine I was thinking about all the records that you've done when I was told. And I was thinking about the Cult. Yeah. Stuff that I love when. And I was so young and you were doing it already. And I'm just sitting there listening to electric and God, I can't imagine where you've been. And all the souls from Adele to obviously Johnny Cash. But even Slayer, whatever. Like, just heavy stuff, man. It takes. I do believe in that. I, I, I, I believe there's humans that have an ownership on something and some don't. I don't know if that makes you special.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

It doesn't.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Yeah. Yeah. And I'm not looking to be special, but, man, it'd be nice to like, just once, like, God damn it, just someone talk to me just for real, like I need an alien. Someone just. Why do I have to have all the answers already? Why, why haven't I quit, you know?

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Does the feeling go away when you're on stage?

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Oh, man. I turn into a. I guess the result of the human condition. I talk to myself. I got a problem with my jaw being open because I got the mask and I'm just talking to myself. No one can see me, so it's like I just am talking. I'm like this and you. And you know, backflip, front flip drums, your baseball bats, you know, over here, just wet, gross, hot dudes up on you slamming so hard your neck feels like it's gonna roll off. It is. God, you know, it's. It's all I have. It's the only thing that's never turns back on me.

[Corey Taylor (Slipknot Vocalist)]

Me.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

My wife has never turned her back on me. She will never turn my. Her back on me. But if she's ill. If she's ill, yeah. Music is the only thing that's always been there for me. And I don't Even need to hear it for it to be there for me. It's in here. So we get it. I gotta have it. I gotta have it. I gotta be so out of it that at 2 in the morning when the bus starts, all of a sudden, you'll see me go. I'll take a deep breath and I'll be like, peace, I'm out. Start at 9:30 and at 11, takes till 2 in the morning for that. This monster to just get back to reality. And then when I do. Oh, I actually sleep. Yeah. You know, Slipknot is good for me. Always has been. And that's.

[Interviewer (Rick)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

I hate that. I hate that it keeps me alive. You know what I mean, Rick? Like, it keeps me alive. It makes me drink water. It makes me. It gets the bad smoke that I had once out of me. It gets the talk, you know, it keeps me alive. It gives me desire, gives me will, gives me purpose, and I can't stand it. It's such a priority of existence, and I have to do it. I have a skipping heart.

[Corey Taylor (Slipknot Vocalist)]

Heart.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

And I got to get a surgery. And I found this out after my last tour. I. I went in, I wasn't feeling good, and I went in and the. The nurse was trying to get an AKG thing going on me or whatever and just wasn't happening. I kind of fell asleep and I woke up, I'm like, are you gonna get this thing? And she's like, oh, it's not working. They thought I was having a heart attack right there. Anyway, my heart skips, and apparently I've taught myself to be, like, a cross country runner. So I'm. I'm overweight and my brain is so strong that it tells this stuff what to do. So my standing heart rate at night is 43. And during the day I get down to 33. Hasn't happened since I've been here with you. Which is good, because I'll go from on to just straight up, I feel like I'm dying. So I got to get a surgery. It's a very, very easy surgery. You're usually out on the same day. It's not like they rip you open. This is something about the electricity. But at first they thought maybe I needed a pacemaker. And I was like, doc, listen, get a pacemaker. I'm done, right? Touring. So now I go, oh, no, you're gonna feel better. And I just. I lost it. I was like, I can't get out of this to save my life. I'm like, there is nothing, not even my heart. It's going to be better because of Slipknot. I got a concierge doctor because I'm in Slipknot and I'm able to go to levels, and they're like, no, you're going to feel better. You better get in shape because you got to do more now at 56, and it's just like, I just can't believe it, man, that this was me. Yeah, it's wonderful. I'm lucky.

[Corey Taylor (Slipknot Vocalist)]

Technical gravity. Technical grammatical.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Tetragrammaton is a podcast.

[Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot)]

Tetragrammaton is a website. Tetragrammaton is a whole world of knowledge.

[Narrator/Host]

What may fall within the sphere of Tetragrammaton Counterculture. Tetragrammaton Sacred geometry. Tetragrammaton the avant garde. Tetragrammaton Generative art. Tetragrammatit the tarot. Tetragrammaton out of print music. Tetragrammaton Biodynamics. Tetragrammaton Graphic design. Tetragrammatin Mythology and magic. Tetragrammatin obscure film. Tetragrammatin beach culture. Tetragrammatin Esoteric lectures. Tetragrammatin off the grid living. Tetragrammatin Alt spirituality. Tetragrammatin the canon of fine objects. Tetragrammatin Muscle cars. Tetragrammatin Ancient wisdom for a new age. Upon entering, experience the artwork of the day. Take a breath and see where you are drawn.