Transcript

Narrator/Host (0:02)

Tetragrammaton.

Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot) (0:24)

First of all, I'm very blessed, and I keep the company of the most amazing people. I've always known this. But when you lose some friends, you start taking a good look at life. And then, you know, like, with Joey, I try to explain to people, you know, because people are really hard on me with Joey because, you know, we separate it, you know, the band and, you know. But human beings don't know the story. Real friends don't tell it because of love. And you get older, you start recognizing it. No one in my career has really, like, stopped me and asked me what the album cover was or why this. You know, I'm not trying to force it down anybody anymore. You know, I never was. I just love art. And that was my job, was to be this, like, visionary, sort of, you know, Paul Gray, the bass player who I started the band with, you know, he always said I was going to change the face of metal the way it looks.

Interviewer (Rick) (1:27)

Yeah.

Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot) (1:27)

You know, and you did. I didn't recognize that until he was gone. And with Joey, you know, I didn't recognize how great he was and how blessed I was to be in his presence because I was like, yo, you're late. You know, I carried your drum set up. Don't do it again. I'm going to kick it down the stairs. You know? And he's like, I'd like to see it. You know, we were bros, you know, I wasn't.

Interviewer (Rick) (1:51)

And you were kids.

Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot) (1:52)

Yeah, I'm not. I'm not stopping. Like, I knew his double bass was sick. I knew it was better than anyone. I. I know the sex of his fills, you know, like, they're just sexy and romantic and have so much feeling. And it's not even, like, a technique. It's like some sort of, hey, here's a silk handkerchief, you know? And you're just like, well, I feel. I feel good. So. So my job has always been to take what I do very, very, very, very, very, very, very serious. Yeah, almost too serious.

Interviewer (Rick) (2:23)

Because what's too serious? Well, hard to say.

Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot) (2:26)

Too serious is for the norm. I end up being around a lot of norm, and so they make me feel crazy.

Interviewer (Rick) (2:34)

So your choice is to dumb yourself down to the norm?

Shawn Crahan (Clown from Slipknot) (2:37)

Summary

Tetragrammaton with Rick Rubin

Episode: Clown of Slipknot (Shawn Crahan)
Release Date: May 6, 2026

Episode Overview

This mesmerizing episode dives into the creative mind and life journey of Shawn "Clown" Crahan, the visionary percussionist and founding member of Slipknot. With host Rick Rubin, Crahan unpacks the raw emotional landscape behind the band’s identity, his relentless commitment to art and music, and deeply personal experiences with trauma, loss, and self-discovery. The conversation intertwines reflections on metal’s mutation, the importance of discipline, the origins of Slipknot, the band's culture, and the profound effect music and art have on both creators and fans.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Origins, Influence, and Early Creativity

On formative years, trauma, and finding music as an escape:
- Clown recounts a childhood marked by solitude, trauma, and self-reliance, which fueled an obsessive relationship with music and art.
- "I've always known... when you lose some friends, you start taking a good look at life." (00:24)
Musical influences:
- Beatles, Hendrix, The Band, Elvis: “My mom would tell me once a week, don’t ever forget the Beatles are the greatest band ever and always will be.” (06:07)
- First shock of seeing Kiss' Dynasty album cover: “I want to look like that. I told her that. I go. I go, that's me.” (07:31)
Family role and discipline:
- His mother fostered a deep love of music; his father insisted he learn its roots through blues, soul, and country.
- Private school experience taught him discipline and left a lasting impact.
- “It's not fun being told what to do. But if you can make it through... you're like, you know, I like making my bed.” (18:00)

Creating Slipknot’s World

Vision for Slipknot and the “three drummers” idea:
- “I had a vision of three drummers. I wanted a triangle...” (38:18)
- Sought to blend metal traditions and the spectacle of art rock, aspiring to create something as impactful as Pink Floyd: “I wanted to be the Slipknot Pink Floyd. You know, have the art, have other things driving. If the riffs are going to be there, why not have a Phoenix with the riff and have it work together?” (21:31)
Formation and scene camaraderie:
- Describes Iowa’s unexpectedly fervent underground music scene: “You wouldn't. We're all older now, and we look back, everybody was in a band.” (30:02)
- On meeting Joey Jordison: “I just had to see if you were human... I didn't know you could play drums like that.” (30:09, 31:31)
Band structure, numbers, and masks:
- Adopted numbers and masks to forge identity and unity; Clown is number 6, a number pregnant with personal meaning.
- "Six is the sun and nine's the moon... six is a pretty—it’s a number that’s around a lot." (60:56)

Artistry and Approach

Philosophy of creativity and seriousness:
- Takes artistry—musical and visual—deadly serious, to the point of seeming "crazy" to outsiders:
  - “My job has always been to take what I do very, very, very, very, very, very, very serious. Yeah, almost too serious.” (01:52)
  - “I just have always wanted to do my very best and be the biggest I could be because the company I keep. I believe in luck because I just do." (02:38)
Album packaging and the “mirror” concept:
- Iowa's package included a goat on the cover and a warped mirror inside:
  - “You open it up... there’s a mirror, and you’re part of it. And I got you... it’s more of like a carnival mirror where you’re a little twisted like us.” (105:23)
Embracing experimentation and technology
- Explores AI and Minecraft as creative tools:
  - "What I do is I look for the glitch in anything in life, and there’s glitches in AI... so I started art that encompassed everything." (90:52–94:44)
  - “I've invented a world known as Vern Earth... probably one of the biggest pieces of art I've ever done...” (94:44–96:42)

Band Dynamics, Loss, and Grieving

The deaths of Paul Gray and Joey Jordison:
- “Paul... he’s the whole reason I’m sitting here. Yeah, he hijacked me from my art career.” (73:00)
- Crahan continues to grapple with loss and the meaning of continuing the band:
  - “Did anyone think that maybe I might not want to go on without my friend?... It’s certainly no better without one of my best friends who was the genius.” (73:12)
  - “Joey really had a hard time with Paul... I don’t think he ever wanted to write with anyone else.” (109:31)
Grieving with the fans:
- Slipknot chose to tour instead of rushing into another record after Paul’s death, turning shows into memorials:
  - “We went on tour and did the grieving with our fans... put his bass on stage and, yeah, have two minutes of silence.” (74:00)
Reflections on longevity and pain:
- “I’m in a lot of extreme pain that I can’t get in control of because I’ve given 190 of myself.” (107:44)
- “It’s the only thing that’s never turns back on me.” (112:37)

Performance, Audience, and Legacy

On Slipknot’s ferocious live shows:
- “It’s us against you. And I'm gonna take these sparks and I'm gonna fly sparks over the crowd. I'm gonna do it, and you can't stop me.” (55:27)
- Describes injuries, chaos, and relentless intensity: "See this? This is a broken bicep... I did eight shows in that, with that." (66:54–68:56)
- “We are truly remarkable... every man in the band saying, I’m going to give 190 for me because I worked hard to get here.” (66:26)
Dedication to fans ("Maggots") and their role:
- “Best people in the world… I want to make music for the people that absolutely needed it.” (83:34)
- On misconceptions: “It’s interesting that people who don’t understand the music view it as a negative thing. When you see how much people need it and love it and maybe it’s the only place they feel like they belong. I’m gonna stop crying.” (86:24)

Personal Life, Art, and Vulnerability

Being a creator and carrying trauma:
- “All I want to do is create. That’s all I’m good at. I’m not good at anything else.” (102:26)
- Speaks candidly about suffering loss, being a father, and dealing with anxiety and strength:
  - “Don’t have kids unless you’re prepared to look at them one day and realize that you’re not going to be there for them... being a dad and losing a child, it’s a fragile thing now and it’s been ruined.” (98:31)
Perspective on ego and humility:
- “I used to think I was really important... now... had to learn ego, and I had to learn, like, what really is important and what importance can do for importance.” (35:21)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On art and grief:
- "No one in my career has really, like, stopped me and asked me what the album cover was or why this. You know, I'm not trying to force it down anybody anymore. You know, I never was. I just love art." (00:24)
On the Slipknot stage:
- "It’s every man in the band saying, I’m going to give 190 for me because I worked hard to get here. And if I don’t, this...I might as well go get a chili dog and ride that ride and go watch something I don’t want to watch." (66:30)
On performance injuries:
- "I grabbed a keg and on my parents grave, something pulled it back... and I ripped the bicep muscle... and it was like lightning." (66:54)
On fans and belonging:
- "I want to make music for the people that absolutely needed it. If they were put in a situation they didn’t care for... that’s who I wanted maggots to be." (83:34)
On persistence:
- "I hate that it keeps me alive. You know what I mean, Rick? Like, it keeps me alive. It makes me drink water. It makes me. It gets the bad smoke that I had once out of me. It gets the talk, you know, it keeps me alive. It gives me desire, gives me will, gives me purpose, and I can't stand it." (113:28)

Timeline of Essential Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:24 | Clown on loss, friendship, and gratitude | | 01:52 | Discussing musical seriousness, feeling "crazy" | | 06:07 | Childhood music: Beatles, Hendrix, and Kiss influences | | 18:00 | Discipline from private school and its impact on Slipknot’s ethos | | 21:31 | Attending Pink Floyd, the vision for Slipknot's own art/performance | | 31:31 | Meeting Joey Jordison, the technical awe of Slipknot's assembly | | 55:27 | Vivid description of Slipknot's earliest live shows and shock tactics | | 73:00 | The loss of Paul Gray, grief, and moving forward | | 98:31 | Reflections on fatherhood, vulnerability, and anxiety | | 105:23 | “Iowa” album package and the mirror concept | | 107:44 | On band changes, wisdom, and pain | | 112:37 | Music as the ultimate source of meaning and survival |

Conclusion

This episode is a tour de force of candor, creative philosophy, and emotional depth. Shawn Crahan lays bare the heart, scars, and soul of Slipknot—offering a rare, unfiltered look at how trauma, discipline, loss, and burning devotion to art have shaped both his individual journey and the band's mythos. Rick Rubin’s gentle curiosity creates space for tales that are wild, heartbreaking, and inspiring, connecting listeners to the reality behind the masks, the mayhem, and the music.