Tetragrammaton with Rick Rubin

Guest: Kelly Wearstler
Date: March 11, 2026

Overview

This episode features celebrated designer Kelly Wearstler in an in-depth conversation with Rick Rubin. They explore Wearstler’s creative process, her approach to interiors and objects, the balance of history and innovation in design, and her passion for collecting. The discussion offers a rich portrait of Wearstler’s influences, inspirations, life lessons, and philosophies on collaboration, risk-taking, and creative evolution.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Complexity of Large-Scale Projects

[00:23]

• Wearstler discusses the challenges of orchestrating massive design projects, such as the current Cal Neva revitalization, involving hundreds of consultants.
  • “Really getting a handle on that. And everyone has to work in unison together and collaborate, have incredible communication.” — Kelly Wearstler [00:27]
• Emphasizes the need for structure, accountability, and collaboration.

2. Cal Neva: Design with Sense of Place and History

[01:18 – 04:51]

• Cal Neva Project (Lake Tahoe): Revival of an iconic 1926 casino/hotel frequented by Frank Sinatra, Judy Garland, and the Kennedys.
  • “We’re reimagining it and of course like really taking in all the history, preserving as much historic fabric as we can.” — Kelly Wearstler [01:42]
• Project includes chalets, a club, recording studio, multiple restaurants, wellness facilities.
• Blend of nostalgia and contemporary interventions, with music as a central “red thread.”

3. History Versus Innovation in Restoration

[04:51 – 06:02]

• Balances preservation with new work by sourcing tactile, soulful materials.
• “Peeling back the drywall, looking at some of the original bones, and creating the tensions between bringing something that’s contemporary and… that feel vintage.” — Kelly Wearstler [05:08]

4. Collaborating and Commissioning Artists

[06:51 – 10:36]

• Celebrates unique, proprietary commissions for her projects.
• Shares her side project, "Side Hustle,” a gallery for artist collaborations and experimental, multi-sensory works (rubber, performance art, textiles, music).
  • “It’s kind of like a free spirit for artists.” — Kelly Wearstler [09:08]
• Focus on warmth, accessibility, and storytelling both in her physical gallery and digital “Hustle Culture” platform.

5. Maximalism and Minimalism: Evolving Tastes

[11:03 – 12:40]

• “A maximalist interior has so much energy, and it is endless discovery. And a minimalist environment makes you think and ponder and breathe and kind of take a moment.” — Kelly Wearstler [11:09]
• Loves both approaches, currently favoring a blend dependent on materiality, light, and the project's needs.

6. The Collector’s Eye

[12:40 – 15:53]

• Wearstler’s collecting spans chairs, jewelry, light fixtures, vintage books, vinyl, and clothing.
• Finds inspiration from auctions, flea markets, and relationships with specialized dealers.

7. The Aura of Original Objects

[16:21 – 16:59]

• Prefers vintage with “patina” and history over reproduction, valuing the stories inherent in old objects.

8. Inspiration from Outside the Category

[19:16 – 20:54]

• Uses vintage fashion and unexpected references for furniture design details.
• “If you’re going to design a chair, look at architecture… That’s how you’re going to create something new.” — Kelly Wearstler [19:22]

9. Early Influences and Wisdom

[20:54 – 25:52]

• Apprenticed with graphic design legend Milton Glaser: persistence led to opportunity.
  • “I sent him a note… I put together these elaborate little books that kind of told a story.” — Kelly Wearstler [21:19]
• Most important piece of advice came from her mother: “Nobody will take care of you other than yourself. You have to be happy on your own.” [23:43]
• Parents’ move to Myrtle Beach, early family disruption, and her people-pleasing drive in design.

10. Evolution of Taste and Risk

[25:56 – 29:11]

• Early flea market upbringing, evolving taste through exposure and risk-taking.
• Willing to experiment, but risk is tempered by experience.

11. Relationship to Color & Home

[29:11 – 33:21]

• Emotional connection to color: home is currently all white, but experimenting with muted color.
  • “Color is really personal to people and we take our time… to experiment and do interesting things.” — Kelly Wearstler [29:11]
• Loss of her family home in a fire: rebuilding with a blend of old memories and new adaptations.

12. Learning from Failure

[35:54 – 37:10]

• "Most shocking" client suggestion was painted stripes throughout a house — quickly regretted and personally corrected it.
  • “I ended up, I honestly, like ended up painting it back myself one color.” — Kelly Wearstler [36:41]

13. Function, Flexibility, and Communication

[37:29 – 39:40]

• Design is always site- and client-specific; no unbreakable rules ("a living room doesn’t always need a sofa").
• Stresses communication and open-ended discovery in the design process.

14. Material Choices and the Senses

[62:21 – 66:45]

• Pursues authenticity and soul by blending vintage with custom pieces.
• Acoustics are considered in materials—e.g., felt under dining tables to dampen sound ([63:21]).
• Loves odd room shapes, portals, sunken living rooms/bars, dynamic use of steps, mirrors, and ceilings as design opportunities.

15. Natural Light, Scale, and Proportion

[67:42 – 70:07]

• Skylights and light wells used freely across all types of spaces.
• Scale is crucial: beware of modernizing original proportions in renovations—honor historical context.

16. The Social Life of Spaces

[71:11 – 73:17]

• Rooms come alive with people and layered interaction.
• Dining rooms should be open and multipurpose; mixing chair styles can mitigate the “dead” feel of empty seats.
  • “Sometimes it’s good to not use the same chair, because… repetition… looks a little just boring.” — Kelly Wearstler [72:57]

17. Renderings, Reality, and Technology

[74:52 – 76:22]

• No substitute for real-life experience of a space—renderings and AI are useful but limited.

18. Material Honesty

[76:22 – 77:04]

• Favors materials with "honesty"—steel, aged mirrors, tactile objects that exude history and substance.

19. On Taste and Beauty

[77:33 – 79:25]

• Greatest inspiration: nature and iconic homes such as Doris Duke’s in Honolulu and the Peggy Guggenheim Museum in Venice.
• Taste is both innate and learned—it’s an openness to discovery.

20. Belief in Dreams and Hustle

[79:29 – 81:24]

• Now recognizes “dreams do come true,” recounting her work ethic from a young age, early jobs, and entrepreneurial beginnings.
• “And now I have a gallery called Side Hustle. Like, who would ever think, you know, the dreams, they do, they come true.” — Kelly Wearstler [81:24]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Preserving as much historic fabric as we can… it is a really ambitious project." — Kelly Wearstler [01:41]
• "I love celebrating artists. I love emerging artists... there’s always, you know, I like kind of the old and new. I like the raw and the refined." — Kelly Wearstler [07:20]
• "[Maximalist] interiors—it is endless discovery… [Minimalism] makes you think and ponder and breathe." — Kelly Wearstler [11:09]
• "If you’re going to design a chair, look at architecture... That’s how you’re going to find something and create something new." — Kelly Wearstler [19:22]
• “Nobody will take care of you other than yourself. You have to be happy on your own.” — Kelly Wearstler (advice from her mother) [23:43]
• "Homes come alive with people. Any space comes alive with people." — Kelly Wearstler [72:18]
• “Taste is… opening yourself up for learning and being curious.” — Kelly Wearstler [79:09]
• "Dreams come true... who would ever think, you know, the dreams, they do, they come true.” — Kelly Wearstler [81:29, 81:24]

International Design: Travel & Inspiration

[51:38 – 54:12]

• Travel now occupies a larger share of Wearstler’s time due to global projects (e.g., Courchevel, Stockholm).
• Dream project: designing the torch for the LA Olympics — “There’s never been a female that has designed the torch.” [53:20]

Resourcefulness & Finding Inspiration in New Places

[54:30 – 55:45]

• Relies on research, word of mouth, and an international network of dealers and artists.
• Substack newsletter “Wurtzler World” shares travel, design, and creative inspiration.

Favorite Hotels & Design Venues

[56:28 – 59:09]

• New York: Crosby Street Hotel (“rooms are all upholstered… natural light”) [56:31]
• London: Chiltern Firehouse (“just so bad… sense of luxury”) [56:59]
• Stockholm: Ett Hem (“every room is different, and it’s so Swedish… you feel like you’re going into your aunt’s home with the best taste”) [57:04]
• Paris: Le Bristol ("very Parisian and old school, and the service is unbelievable") [58:22]
• Milan: Portrait Milano ("so melanese... luxurious") [58:58]

Design Techniques & Tricks

• Use of felt under dining tables for acoustics ([63:21]).
• Steps and sunken spaces to break up long rooms, create intimacy ([64:25], [65:24]).
• Attention to ceiling treatments ([66:47]).
• Maintaining vintage scale in renovations, not overscaling modern elements ([69:13], [70:07]).

Conclusion

This episode provides an intimate look at Kelly Wearstler’s world: her deep appreciation for history, respect for artistry, joy in collaboration, and endless curiosity. Through her stories and advice, listeners gain a roadmap for finding meaning, risk, and soul in design—and in life. Her ethos: combine the old with the new, always remain open and curious, and let dreams shape your journey.