Michelle Appling Episode 135 Real Talk about Real Estate with a CDRE

Summary

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Texas Family Law Insiders Episode 135

“Real Talk about Real Estate with a CDRE”

Host: Carrie Tapia
Guest: Michelle Appling, CDRE
Date: March 18, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode spotlights the nuanced intersection of real estate and divorce in Texas. Guest host Carrie Tapia welcomes Michelle Appling, a Certified Divorce Real Estate Expert (CDRE) and Realtor, for a comprehensive conversation about the challenges and best practices in managing real estate assets during family law proceedings. They focus on avoiding common pitfalls, structuring clear decrees, timing the sale or buyout, coordinating client expectations, and maximizing client protection and equity.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Unique Role of the Certified Divorce Real Estate Expert (CDRE)

• Neutral Third Party: CDREs serve as third-party neutrals to facilitate the sale of property in divorce cases, aiming to balance the interests of both parties ([02:06]).
• Specialized Training: Beyond typical realtor duties, CDREs continually train to handle high-conflict cases, understand court orders, and navigate family dynamics ([04:08], [04:45]).
• Ethical Standards: CDREs are bound by higher ethical rules—no dual agency, no purchasing divorce listings as investments, and strict fiduciary responsibility ([06:52], [07:02]).
  • Quote: “As a CDRE, my ethics preclude me from doing that because how do I remain a third party neutral…” – Michelle Appling ([06:52])

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2. Divorce Transactions vs. Standard Sales

• Navigating Conflict: Regular real estate sales rarely deal with adversarial clients, but divorce listings almost always involve divided, sometimes hostile, parties ([02:53]).
• Communication with Lawyers: Protocols are in place for reporting, dispute resolution, and managing orders (lockboxes, repairs, access, restraining orders) ([04:08]).
• Impact on Equity: Delays, disputes, or misaligned decrees can erode the value available for both parties ([03:30]).
  • Quote: “My job is to protect their equity.” – Michelle Appling ([03:33])

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3. Common Pitfalls in Decrees and Settlement Orders

• Lack of Specific Timelines: Generic language (e.g., “each spouse can buy the other out”) without timelines opens the door to stalling and disputes ([08:03]).
  • Memorable story: A decree with no deadline allowed a spouse to ghost everyone, stalling the process ([08:20]).
• Unrealistic Listing Deadlines: Orders to list properties on unrealistically tight timeframes prevent proper preparation and can discourage optimal offers ([09:16]).
• Fixed Listing Prices: Mandating a price based on outdated appraisals or without market guidance frequently backfires ([10:00]).
  • Quote: “Let a real estate professional determine that price.” – Michelle Appling ([11:56])

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4. Practical Decree Drafting and Negotiation Tips

• Flexible Timeline Language: Rather than fixed listing dates, use stepwise protocols (“within X days, each party will contact the CDRE…” etc.), allowing the expert to guide timing based on property readiness ([12:36]).
• Price Setting Protocols: Ideally, the CDRE recommends price based on up-to-date market analysis, with a tie-breaker rule if parties can’t agree. Involvement of the CDRE keeps the transaction moving and reduces disputes ([14:00]).
• Market Volatility: Agreements should account for possible market shifts and have mechanisms for reassessment of listing price ([13:18]).

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5. Buyout vs. Sale: Navigating Emotional and Financial Realities

• Financial Feasibility: Many desire to keep the marital home for continuity, especially for children, but refinancing at today’s higher interest rates can be unaffordable ([17:25]).
• Looking Beyond the Payment: Parties should consider total cost of ownership (maintenance, repairs, etc.), not just qualifying for the new mortgage ([18:10]).
  • Quote: “Can you afford the maintenance on the pool? Your air conditioning is old. Are you going to be able to replace that in two to three years if it needs to be replaced?” – Michelle Appling ([18:40])

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6. Managing In-Spouse vs. Out-Spouse Dynamics

• Showing and Marketing: In-spouse resistance to showings is a frequent problem (e.g., denying buyer access sabotages the sale) ([20:31]).
• CDRE Listing Amendments: Michelle uses listing contract addenda requiring 90% acceptance rate for showings, with clear penalties for noncompliance ([21:32]).
• Access to Sale Proceeds: Solutions include leasebacks or coordinated closing to address the in-spouse’s need for moving funds ([24:34]).

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7. Timing: When to Bring in a CDRE

• Early Involvement Offers Advantages: Involvement at the asset inventory or appraisement stage allows for desktop fair market value reports, early title search, and identification of potential liens, equipping lawyers with critical information ([26:05]).
  • Quote: “The sooner the better. As soon as you know there’s real property involved, you can call me and ask for a desktop appraisal.” – Michelle Appling ([26:05])
• Zillow Caution: “Zestimates” are often inaccurate and should not be relied upon for divorce negotiations ([27:52]).

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8. Additional Resources and CLEs

• Educational Offerings: Michelle provides CLE classes for family lawyers on real estate pitfalls in divorce (“Orders, Terms and Practices that sink your client’s equity”) and invites attorneys to local and Zoom CLE events ([29:44]).
  • Contact: [e-mail]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Emotional Traps in Divorce Sales:
  “I have had people say to me, well, I’ll take less money as long as he or she takes less money as well.” – Michelle Appling ([02:53])

• On Listing Price Decisions:
  “Let a real estate professional determine that price.” – Michelle Appling ([11:56])

• On Poorly Drafted Decrees:
  “He just sat on it and sat on it, ghosted everybody, couldn’t get hold of them and ended up writing me in as a receiver on the case.” – Michelle Appling ([08:20])

• On the Need for Early CDRE Involvement:
  “Please don’t go to Zillow and get a zestimate. Those are never accurate.” – Michelle Appling ([27:52])

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Key Timestamps for Fast Navigation

• 02:06 – CDRE role explained
• 04:08 – Unique questions to ask prospective divorce realtors
• 08:03 – Common decree language mistakes
• 12:36 – Best practices for drafting real property terms in decrees
• 14:00 – How CDREs handle listing price disputes
• 17:25 – Pros and cons of buyout vs. sale
• 20:31 – Dealing with in-spouse showings and complications
• 24:34 – Solutions for moving funds and leasebacks
• 26:05 – Ideal timing for involving a CDRE
• 27:52 – The dangers of using Zillow’s “zestimate”
• 29:44 – Michelle’s CLE offerings and final advice

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Final Takeaways

• Early and specialized involvement of a CDRE can avoid many common divorce real estate woes.
• Decrees should empower the CDRE and build in flexibility for changing market conditions and property readiness.
• Lawyers should ensure orders don’t inadvertently sabotage value or logistics.
• Communication, ethics, and practical process frameworks are vital for protecting client interests in property division.

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Resources

• Contact Michelle Appling: [e-mail]
• CLE opportunities and “12 Questions to Ask Your Real Estate Expert” – available via Michelle.
• Raising the Bar CLE via Zoom (4th Wednesday monthly, 2–3:15 PM)

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Transcript

[Michelle Appley]

As real estate agents, you know, people ask me a lot of times, they'll ask me a legal question and I stay in my lane. I say, please call your, call your attorney. I'm not an attorney. And so respectfully, I would say let a real estate professional determine that price.

[Podcast Announcer]

You're listening to the Texas Family Law Insiders podcast, your source for the latest news and trends in family law in the state of Texas. Now, here's your host for this episode episode attorney Carrie Tapia.

[Carrie Tapia]

Welcome back to Texas Dummy Law Insiders. My name is Carrie Tapia. I'm guest host here. I'm a partner at the Draper Law Firm. Today we have a very important conversation for anyone that handles property issues and divorces, which is probably most of us. Real estate is often one of the largest assets on the table, yet it can be a complex asset to divide or resolve efficiently. I know we all see clients struggle with how to address this asset, how to resolve it. There's buyouts, refinancing, valuations, sales that fall apart, and all these things can turn into a fight. So I'm excited today to welcome Michelle Appley. Michelle is a certified divorce real estate expert, CDRE for short, and a seasoned Realtor based here in North Texas. Michelle's been a realtor for 10 years and a CDRE for four years. Michelle has a unique experience that she can bring to the table to assist divorcing couples and their counselors who work with them to navigate real property issues. And she brings a blend of market expertise and process insight that we can all learn from. Thanks so much for being here, Michelle.

[Michelle Appley]

Thanks for having me, Carrie. I'm glad to be here today.

[Carrie Tapia]

So in this episode we're going to look at what divorce focused real estate really looks like from the trenches, how to spot any pitfalls before they derail your case, and some practical strategies to use in negotiation and decree drafting about how lawyers and real estate professionals can work together to better protect clients and avoid post decree headaches. So what does it mean to be a certified divorce real estate expert? Michelle?

[Michelle Appley]

That's a great question. So as a certified divorce real estate expert, I act as a third party neutral to help sell the property in a divorce. I also do a couple of other things to help our family lawyers as far as cles and different educational programs to just bring a little bit more awareness to, as you mentioned, the pitfalls of real estate in a divorce. You know, selling a home is stressful anyway, but then you add in two parties that are on the same side of a transaction. But they oppose one another and things can get really sticky really quick.

[Carrie Tapia]

So you kind of touched on it a little bit. But are there any other ways that how divorce related transactions would differ from a standard residential sale?

[Michelle Appley]

Well, mostly they differ in the way we handle the clients. Again, you usually have people that are very opposed to one another. I have had people say to me, well, I'll take less money as long as he or she takes less money as well. So understanding how to navigate the transaction itself, the negotiations, the timelines, but also navigating the clients and helping them sometimes get out of their own way in order to get the best outcome. I understand that as family lawyers, you guys are dealing with a whole lot of things. It's not just the, the house you're dealing with perhaps maybe some domestic abuse, you're dealing with custody issues. And sometimes that house can get put on the back burner. And that's where a CDRE can come in and help with a market analysis, help with strategy, because oftentimes that is their largest asset and that's the money that both parties have in order to begin their new life. And so my job is to protect their equity.

[Carrie Tapia]

What do you bring to the table as a CDRE specifically versus any other realtor that. I mean there, there's a lot of realtors.

[Michelle Appley]

Sure, there are a lot of realtors. And I think the first question you need to ask, and I actually have some information that I'd be happy to share with you that you can post, but 12 questions to ask your real estate expert. Number one, how do they settle disputes when the parties don't agree? As a family lawyer, you don't want to get involved in that minutia. You have other things to do. How, as the cdre, do I communicate with the attorneys? When and how do I let you know how things are going? What's the protocol if one spouse wants a lockbox and the other doesn't? How do you handle repairs? When one person says, I'm not going to pay a penny, he or she can pay all of it. What is a protocol as an agent if the out spouse, the spouse that is not living in the home, wants access to the property? What training do you have in handling high conflict cases in family law? As a cdre, I spend about four to six hours a month in continuing education and a lot of that is learning how to handle people and personalities. What is a protocol for access, meetings and communication? If there are restraining orders, I can promise you an agent that sells two to three houses a year and fun Fact, your average agent sells about 2.6 houses every 12 months. They haven't even thought about that question. Do you represent a buyer on your divorce listings? So in Texas we can double end a deal. If somebody walks into an open house in a regular case and the listing agent is showing that house, they can represent that buyer and the seller. They could represent one of the spouses in a purchase while they are representing the listing. As a cdre, my ethics preclude me from doing that because how do I remain a third party neutral if the wife is living in the house and on the weekends I'm out showing the husband and his new girlfriend property? That's not going to work. Do you buy divorce listings as investments? Many times we find that the condition of the home reflects the condition of the marriage and that could be very attractive to an agent that is also an investor. That's an absolute no for us as someone certified divorce real estate experts. Again, our ethics preclude us from benefiting in any way. Personally, I think a lot of people don't understand fiduciary as a whole. But there are only three industries that have a fiduciary. Your industry, Carrie. Financial advisors and real estate agents. And so I explain to my clients as a fiduciary, that means I just like your attorney, I have to put your best interest ahead of mine. So we cannot buy divorce listings as an investment. What's the protocol for only one spouse on title? How do you involve the non titled spouse in the sale? How do you ensure the distribution of proceeds? Follow the court order?

[Carrie Tapia]

That's a big one.

[Michelle Appley]

Yeah. Do they even have a copy of the court order? And this is super important because I see it all the time in multiple listing. Do you disclose to buyers, agents or in any advertising that this is a divorce listing? I see that a lot. Divorce sale. No, no, we don't disclose that because guess what? That makes buyers and other agents feel like it's a fire sale.

[Carrie Tapia]

Right. That gives them some type of leverage that they used to have no business having. Interesting.

[Michelle Appley]

Absolutely, yes.

[Carrie Tapia]

What are some common issues that you've seen maybe in our decrees or our mediated settlement agreements that we lawyers might put into place that we think we're being smart that actually end up causing problems on your end of things.

[Michelle Appley]

And thank you for that because what a loaded question that is. Let me just give you some examples and a cheap plug here for one of our cles. We actually have a, a certified legal education class that goes over those types of real life experiences. Would love to Share that at some point. So I had one recently that said each spouse can buy the other one out. It was very generic. Okay, so in this particular case, that was my client. The husband says, oh, well then that's. I get half. So that's only half. I can do that. I said, wonderful. Let me connect you with a lender. The problem was there was no timeline in that decree. That said if one buys the other one out, then you must be pre qualified with your lender in X amount of days. You must have title open in X amount of days. You must close in X amount of days. So guess what happened? He just sat on it and sat on it, ghosted everybody, couldn't get hold of them and ended up writing me in as a receiver on the case. However, if that had been written in properly, that wouldn't have been an issue. The other thing that happens a lot is putting in a date when the house must be listed. That's a fun one. Let's say I'd get a decree on Monday that says, hey, you've been written into the MSA or the judge wrote you in or whatever and we need the house listed by Friday. Okay, so let's just pretend that all the stars align and I actually have time to do that and my photographer has time to go out there, et cetera, et cetera. We haven't had time to prepare the house. We haven't had time for that in spouse to clean it up, maybe do some staging. Anything that would really help, you know, increase the, the market.

[Carrie Tapia]

It.

[Michelle Appley]

Market it. Exactly. Because as, as you know, and most people know, people buy online these days, they're going to get on Zillow or homes.com or realtor.com and they're going to look at that house 10 times before they call their agent and say, hey, I want to go walk through this property. And most views you get, you get your, your biggest audience in the first two weeks that homes are on the market. So it's really important that we can put our best foot forward, whatever that best foot looks like. And that can be different situations because the house isn't always their main thing. Other things can be, oh, pricing, love that. Let's say they have a appraisal from three months ago. Well, that's about as good as the paper it's written on at this point. And, but, but I get it. You finally get agreement. They're like, yes, both parties have decided to sell. Let's just go, go, go. So now I'm told I have to market this house at 705 or whatever the number is. But my research tells me that most people in that neighborhood the, the biggest amount of buyers are looking from 650 to 699. So $6,000 has just bumped a whole bunch of buyers out of looking at their home. Or we look at the comparables. And the house down the street, which is very similar to theirs and has been completely updated and all the maintenance has been done. It has beautiful curb appeal, is listed at 675. And now I'm stuck with a court order that says I have to list it 30,000 above. As real estate agents, you know, people ask me a lot of times, they'll ask me a legal question and I stay in my lane. I say, please call your. Call your attorney. I'm not an attorney. And so respectfully, I would say let a real estate professional determine that price. We do have some proposed language for court orders that I'd be happy to share with you that gives some timelines and gives some kind of guardrails that really help move that timeline forward. And we never end up in receivership because we've already baked that in to an order.

[Carrie Tapia]

I was curious what timeline? Because as a lawyer, I'm like, well, we have to have a deadline for it to be listed or else, you know, it'll just never happen. And I, I could see that a week would be too much. So, I mean, what do you think would be.

[Michelle Appley]

And I know this is.

[Carrie Tapia]

The answer is probably, it depends, but I mean, like a month, would that normally be reasonable?

[Michelle Appley]

You know, what I would say is don't put the listing date in, but put some dates in that, say within seven days or within three days, each party will contact the certified divorce real estate expert. Within three days of that time, the real estate agent will schedule a walkthrough of the property. And then within so many days, let that agent determine when it's going to go on the market. But with those guidelines in the decree, it gets that timeline going, it gets the transaction moving forward, and those things fall into place.

[Carrie Tapia]

My next question was about market changes, and you touched on this. But sometimes, you know, we'll be at mediation, they've agreed to a sale price, and then things change. And I understand that the market has been a bit unpredictable lately, at least in our area. But again, we need to have some type of parameter in our agreements and our decrees for the listing price. Sometimes it'll say based on a price agreed upon by the parties as advised by the realtor. And I always think that, that's incredibly vague, but I guess it's there. Would your ideal world be that the decree says that the CDRE gets to pick the price and the parties have to go along with it? Or that sounds almost closer to a

[Michelle Appley]

receiver if they don't agree. But I will tell you the way our process works as divorce real estate experts. We keep things very siloed for the most part just because again, emotions, things run high with, with these parties. Or they'll tell me, oh no, we get along, it's fine, you do now, but at some point you're not going to because there's a reason you're getting a divorce. So usually I like to do a walkthrough of the property first. I go through, I just take pictures with my phone. These are not pictures for the listing. I will tell the in spouse, the person living there, hey, if there's something you don't want your significant other you don't want your soon to be ex spouse to see, you can move it out of the pictures. Because sometimes that the out spouse hasn't seen the condition of that home in a couple of years. Okay, so I'll take pictures. I will. And it's just a walkthrough. It takes about 15 minutes. Again, this is not something an untrained realtor would do. Okay. They like to sit down with everybody, build rapport. That doesn't work in these cases. So then I'll go back to my office, I'll do my market analysis, I'll dig into the neighborhood, I'll look at the condition of this home versus the others. And then my next step is a zoom meeting with the outspouse. And I share the market analysis, I share the pictures. And I've also gotten information regarding the mortgage. Is it current? Have you done any forbearance? Are you in foreclosure? Because if we're in foreclosure, that changes everything. Now it's not about maximizing equity, it's about saving any equity that is there. And then we got to go on the market asap. We can also work with the mortgage company to let them know that we're going on the market and we can push that foreclosure out. But again, time is of the essence in that situation. But in this example, I'm saying that that's not the case. So then I'll meet with the out spouse, show the pictures, give my analysis, get their agreement, and then I do the same thing via zoom with the in spouse. Hey, here's what I came up with. I just did this last night. Most of the time, I get agreement most of the time. But it is nice to have that in there that says if you don't agree, this is what we're going in at.

[Podcast Announcer]

This episode of the Texas Family Law Insiders podcast is sponsored by the Draper Law Firm, providing family law appellate representation for non parent custody cases, jurisdiction issues, property division standing conservatorship, possession and access termination, parental rights and grandparent access. For more information, visit DraperFirm.com or call 469-715-6801.

[Carrie Tapia]

And I'm not sure if this is something that you would touch on in your role necessarily, but do you have any insight about, you know, there's a couple of options with a house. Either one of you keeps it, buys the other one out, or we sell it. That's really. That's it. Is there any benefit that you've seen to one party keeping it and refinancing it instead of selling it, or is there something that we should be aware of with that?

[Michelle Appley]

I mean, that's a very personal question. It all depends on can the spouse afford to keep it? Because so many people right now have mortgages at like two and a quarter, 3%. About 80% of mortgages are less than 5%. So, so now we're looking at a couple that has and we're going to pretend in with your question that they purchased this home pre Covid. Okay, let's say they've owned it at least six to 10 years. We've seen a lot of appreciation in the value. So now they have to take with less income. Okay. They're going to have to buy the spouse out at maybe 2 or $300,000 in equity at 6, 6.5%, depending on what they qualify for. The first question is let's get them in touch with a mortgage lender. And we have a great one in our group that also has family law experience. And just make sure you actually qualify. Can you get the loan? But then my next question is, and let me just say this very frankly, many times I run into the women that want to keep the house because they want to keep the kids in the same neighborhood in the school district. And I realize this is not 1950. A lot of women have good jobs and they make a lot great money. But if they've stayed home and they don't have the income and now they're in this big house, I really try to get them to look at the whole thing. Okay, yes, you can afford the payment. Can you Afford the maintenance on the pool. Your air conditioning is old. Are you going to be able to replace that in two to three years if it needs to be replaced? Your hot water heater is old. So you really want them to look at the total package, not just, oh, I can afford the payment and the taxes and the insurance.

[Carrie Tapia]

Right. Getting them to look at the big picture and down the road, not just the immediate emotional feeling there about I have to keep the house. Okay, that makes sense.

[Michelle Appley]

They can keep the house and they can afford to keep the house. I think that's fantastic. I think they should. But I have found that and statistically about 60% of divorces that have real property, they have to sell for one, for one reason or another, especially in this market with the increase in the value and the higher interest rates, it has become more of a challenge.

[Carrie Tapia]

And I know you've mentioned a lot about in spouse and outspouse and I like that language. Generally, is it better for there to be someone living in the house? A lot of times at mediation, one party, the part the outspouse will take the stance that, well, the in spouse needs to move out first before we get it listed. And that can be a big negotiating piece about when the in spouse needs to move out, if they need to move out before listing, after listing, etc. Is there anything that we as attorneys could do better with that aspect of it to help your role?

[Michelle Appley]

It depends on the spouse that's in the house. But let me say that many times the spouse that is in the home may sabotage that sale because they're afraid to move, they don't want to move. Maybe they don't have the money to move. But again, that's where a good CDRE comes into play. I'm going to know when I meet with them the first time what their mindset is. The other thing that we do as CDREs, I have an amendment with the listing agreement that says you will accept 90% of showing requests because we're on the market. That's what it looks like to be on the market. And when you start denying, denying, denying showings there in those first two weeks that we mentioned a little bit ago, guess what? People are going to quit calling to show your house because they're going to realize that you're challenging.

[Carrie Tapia]

Is that something we should put in the decrees or MSAs about accepting the listings, or do you find that it being in your listing contract is sufficient?

[Michelle Appley]

Being in my listing contract is, is more helpful, I think, because it also in that amendment says if you don't allow 90% of the showings. I get it. Sometimes things happen. You just, you needed to get the, the house picked up and so you said hey, instead of 6 o', clock, could you come at 6:30? It also says if you don't accept 90% then I already have permission to put that house on hold status in the MLS until you get it together. And so as CDREs, we kind of have a three strikes in your out rule. I will work diligently with that in spouse to fix whatever the problem is, why they're denying the showings. Maybe here's a real life example. Maybe it's because the decree says all the money's going to the IOLTA account and that in spouse is going. I don't have any money to move. Where am I going to go? Because all the money out of this house is going to the iota. So that's where I'll say okay, and I'll go to each attorney and say this is an issue. Could we perhaps give 10,000 to each party at the closing table and the balance go to the IOLTA so that the in spouse has money to move. But I'm gonna, I'm going to know pretty quickly by the condition of the home. Is it really dirty? Is there dog mess everywhere? You know, I'm gonna know if they're going to cooperate or not. I have had several cases where having that spouse in the house is fine. They've done just fine. They've kept it nice, they wanted to sell it too. But again, I think it has to do with the parties. And you're going to know, you've spent enough time with your client to know if they're going to cooperate or not and if they need to move or not. So as I mentioned, I try to work with them. If I cannot get them on board, then I will reach out to their attorney and say, hey, this is what I've done to try to remedy this situation. Please speak with your client. But again, our job as cdres is not to, to get you as the divorce attorney into the minutia of all the little things about the house. We need to handle that. We need to handle the client and only bring you in if it is absolutely necessary.

[Carrie Tapia]

Do you, you mentioned, you know, a lot of times we do that, that the proceeds are going to be held in Iolta for future division. I would say that that's probably something that happens more at the temporary orders level in my experience and having that in the decree. Because at the decree I don't I don't want the money in the aisle.

[Michelle Appley]

So we're done, right?

[Carrie Tapia]

Is there. I know we went and we were discussing how the in spouse needs access to those funds to leave. Is there something that you as a CDR can like is like the lease back or something like that to allow them? Because if they don't get the money till the closing table, by then they're supposed to be out and gone somewhere. So does that actually help them have the funds or is there a tool that could help them have access to funds?

[Michelle Appley]

Oh, absolutely. So we can do a leaseback is a great option. I have coordinated just yesterday, as a matter of fact, coordinated with a divorce divorcing couple. She was purchasing another home. So I coordinated with her buyer's agent and we closed both houses on the same day. And we closed the sale first. And then the title company moved the money that she needed for the down payment to the other title company for the purchase. And so everything went very smoothly and she sold and purchased and moved all in the same day. But yes, sometimes they do need a few days lease back if there's a timing issue on a purchase or a lease or, hey, I need that money for, I don't know, a security deposit, you know, at the apartment or whatever. So we do, we do work with them and try to find some answers, some. Some solutions maybe sometimes to problems they don't know they have yet.

[Carrie Tapia]

That's great. When is your ideal time to be brought into the case?

[Michelle Appley]

When?

[Carrie Tapia]

Often early on. As a lawyer, I can look, we change inventory and appraisements. I can tell pretty quickly that we're going to need to get this house sold.

[Michelle Appley]

Right.

[Carrie Tapia]

But maybe one side or the other is holding on. Do you find that it's helpful to maybe perhaps speak with both sides before there's even an agreement to get it listed? Or is it just we need to agree to get it listed and then bring you on?

[Michelle Appley]

The sooner the better. I feel like, in fact, as soon as you know that there's real property involved, you can call me and ask for a desktop appraisal. If I just have pictures of the property, I can do a quick fair market value on my desktop that says, here's a range of what I think this house will sell for. I can't give you hard numbers until I see the property. Now, if you think that this is going to be real contentious and you're going to need an expert witness and you want something that I can testify to in court, then I do charge for that because I have to go to the house. But most of the time in the beginning, I would say that you're just trying to figure out all the assets. Right. So if we can give you a fair market value and give you kind of a ballpark figure based on pictures and what is going on in the market, we can say it'll probably sell for this much. And if you can tell me what the mortgage balance is, I can give you a approximate net, which can be very helpful. Always happy for you to share my information and to talk to each person. Again, I know they might be like, I'm not selling because again, many times the house is not their main thing. It's not the main issue. It's the kids and it's custody and other things. But if we can be of service to you and give you some information that will help make better decisions, that's one thing we do. We can open title early for you. We can do a title search. You might be saying, hey, I don't even know if my client's on the title. And then we can find other liens that you might not know about. Maybe one spouse is self employed and they haven't filed with the IRS in many years. Hey, guess what? There's a IRS lien on this house that we're going to have to deal with.

[Carrie Tapia]

Surprise. And one of the scariest ones.

[Michelle Appley]

Right. So those are some things we can help you with up front. And I always do tell my family law attorney partners, please don't go to Zillow and get a zestimate. Those are never accurate.

[Carrie Tapia]

Please. But it's right there. It's on the Internet.

[Michelle Appley]

But it's very. It's. It's not. It is. It can be 20 to 30% off one way or the other because it doesn't take into consideration condition. Sometimes it doesn't take into consideration location. So for example, it just takes things within an area. So perhaps you're in a neighborhood that has some lakefront property, but your client's property isn't lakefront. Well, lakefront is worth a whole lot more. And it's really going to skew those numbers and they're going to be like, oh, well, my house is worth a million dollars. Probably not. And your house is very dated and it hasn't been maintained and the air conditioning on the upstairs doesn't work. So big factors, yes. Can give a very skewed view of things. So I never want to be the bearer of bad news, but I want to deal in reality for you and your clients because that's where we have to be whether we want to be there or not. So, you know, reach out to your local CDRE for a fair market value for a title search. Maybe you just have a question because it's not a cookie cutter house and you're like, how do we value this? All of those things come into play on setting a list price for a home.

[Carrie Tapia]

I think we might have touched on this some. But is there one more thing that you just want to tell us family lawyers that you wish that we understood about how what we do impacts positively or negatively getting that house listed and sold?

[Michelle Appley]

Your orders definitely impact the amount of money that they're going to walk away with. So we do have a CLE called Orders, Terms and Practices that sink your client's equity. So if you are interested in CLE at your office, I would love to share that. Just do a lunch and learn here in the DFW area and share some information that you can also get CLE credit for. I also am a national sponsor for Raising the Bar, which is a monthly CLE via Zoom. It's the fourth Wednesday of every month from 2 to 3:15. We have some excellent topics, not necessarily always about real estate and real property. So if your listeners would like an invitation to that, if they want to share their information with me, they can always call me. They can email me@michelle aplingbrealty.com and happy to share those resources with the family law community here in the DFW area.

[Carrie Tapia]

Great. Those sound very helpful. Thank you so much Michelle for being here. We really appreciate your time. Thank you.

[Podcast Announcer]

We hope you enjoyed this episode of the Texas Family Law Insiders Podcast sponsored by the Draper Law Firm. To be the first to hear about new episodes, make sure to subscribe in your preferred podcast platform. At the Draper Law Firm, we help people navigate divorce and child custody cases and handle family law and appellate matters. For more information, visit our website at www.draperfirm.com.