TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast

Episode #593: “Bitcoin is Money (&) Currency” with Parker Lewis

Date: March 5, 2025
Host: Marty Bent
Guests: Parker A. Lewis, Jack Mallers

Episode Overview

In this highly insightful episode, Marty Bent speaks with Parker Lewis and Jack Mallers about Parker’s recent article, “Bitcoin is Money and Currency.” The discussion explores the nuanced but crucial distinctions between money and currency, why these definitions matter for Bitcoin’s regulatory prospects, and how real-world business decisions are already proving Bitcoin’s viability as both money and a currency. The conversation weaves through regulatory debates in Washington, practical Bitcoin payments in business, and the ongoing evolution of Bitcoin payment tools.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Bitcoin Takeover: Context & Community Events

(01:57 – 10:16)

• Parker and Jack outline the upcoming fourth annual Bitcoin Takeover week in Austin, designed to fill the “Bitcoin track” void at SXSW.

• Events include hackathons, educational talks on Bitcoin vs. CBDCs, startup showcases, mining panels, and a film screening of Dirty Coin.

• Noted the marginalization of Bitcoin at major tech events and the push for high-quality, high-signal industry gatherings.

  "South by Southwest...doesn't ever include Bitcoin as a track...Given the absence of bitcoin...it was appropriate for us to host the bitcoin takeover."
  — Parker A. Lewis (02:15)

2. Why the Language Matters: Money, Currency, and Policy

(12:02 – 19:35)

• Parker shares the impetus for his article: real-world policy debates, especially among high-profile Bitcoin backers like Michael Saylor, who calls Bitcoin “money and property, but not currency.”

• Highlights confusion sown by conflation of Bitcoin with all “crypto,” leading to poor policy and regulatory overreach.

• Emphasizes that the definitions used in DC have lasting consequences.

  "If you lump Bitcoin in with everything else, then the snake oil is always snake oil. And when it becomes clear...they're going to associate it with Bitcoin and then...over regulate Bitcoin..."
  — Parker A. Lewis (17:36)

3. Historical Distinction: Commodity Money vs. Currency

(22:53 – 29:54)

• Explains that historically, money (like gold) required an issuer for currency (like coins or notes).

• Bitcoin is unique — it's both commodity and currency, removing the need for a central issuer entirely.

• Regulatory attempts to fit Bitcoin into old definitions ignore its true nature and risk stifling innovation.

  "Bitcoin has a baked in native unit, it can do all of the things that any other currency...would otherwise need an issuer to do, without an issuer."
  — Parker A. Lewis (26:55)

4. Triple Entry Accounting and the Elimination of Issuers

(29:54 – 36:00)

• Bitcoin is essentially a self-sustained, “triple entry” system handling issuance, validation, transmission, and settlement — no trust in humans or institutions is required for transactions.

• This fundamental shift underpins Bitcoin’s ability to function as a true currency.

  "There's this closed loop, truly autonomous system that can validate all currency transactions and that you don't have to trust another third party."
  — Parker A. Lewis (34:28)

5. Currency in Practice: Real-World Business Examples

(50:54 – 60:58)

• Jack discusses business cash management, choosing daily between holding dollars or bitcoin, highlighting that Bitcoin and the dollar are indeed competing for store-of-value and payment usage.

• Shares a recent example: choosing to pay a $3,000 invoice via Bitcoin (over Lightning) because it was cheaper than paying a fiat invoice with a 4% fee.

• Parker elaborates: every such transaction made peer-to-peer in Bitcoin removes inefficiency (from three transaction steps to one) and proves Bitcoin’s currency utility.

  "You were able to affect one currency transaction rather than three. And that's the definition of efficiency."
  — Parker A. Lewis (58:38)

6. Bitcoin’s Path to Ubiquity and the Role of Tools

(73:50 – 78:03)

• Discusses how business tools like Zaprite facilitate Bitcoin invoices and payments, and how their quality improves with more use and feedback.

• Clarifies: even as Bitcoin eliminates central issuers, a robust tool ecosystem is essential for mass business adoption.

  "The more people that use those tools and understand this layered thinking...the better the tools will get. And that's how we actually get out of this conundrum."
  — Parker A. Lewis (96:13)

7. Stablecoins, Lobbying, and False Equivalences

(22:53–26:11, 78:18–85:49)

• Pushback against the idea that stablecoins or CBDCs are the inevitable “currency” of the digital future.

• Argues that stablecoins are, at best, a technologically inferior extension of a failing fiat system.

  "People call them stable coins, but they're just losing the same value that the dollar is losing and eventually they're going to be worthless."
  — Parker A. Lewis (82:00)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Policy Consequences:
  "The consequence of incorrectly defining Bitcoin...ultimately, be detrimental, at least to the people that are here in the United States."
  — Parker A. Lewis (18:28)

• On the ‘Store of Value Only’ Trap:
  "If your logic is...we're all just going to store value in this thing...[w]ell, it's going up in value because it's actually money. And money is used to coordinate trade."
  — Parker A. Lewis (70:25)

• On the Inevitability of Usage:
  "As more people have it...there will, by the density alone, be more natural occurrences of bitcoin holders being on either side of a transaction."
  — Parker A. Lewis (67:28)

• On Removing Friction:
  "If you have two people that want bitcoin on either side, there's an efficiency because it's just one transaction versus three."
  — Parker A. Lewis (86:27)

• On Stablecoins and Payment Networks:
  "[Stablecoins are] functionally a worse form of dollars today. The best you can do is make them as good as the dollar, basically the dollar equivalent, which they're not today."
  — Parker A. Lewis (83:32)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Intro & Takeover Event: 01:57 – 10:16
• Policy & Language Framing: 12:02 – 19:35
• Commodity Money vs. Currency: 22:53 – 29:54
• Bitcoin’s Unique Accounting System: 29:54 – 36:00
• BTC as Currency – Real Business Use: 50:54 – 60:58
• Challenges in Mass Adoption & Tooling: 73:50 – 78:03
• Stablecoins & Industry Narratives: 78:18 – 85:49

Summary of Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is direct, technically deep, and infused with both passion and real-world pragmatism. Parker and Jack have a friendly, humorous dynamic but are uncompromising in challenging the industry’s tendency to resort to regulatory comfort or misleading narratives. They stress that Bitcoin’s utility as a currency is not a theoretical future – it is already here for those willing to use it, and much of the “friction” often cited is rapidly being eroded.

Final Thought:

If listeners take away anything, it’s that Bitcoin isn’t merely a “store of value” or “digital gold,” nor is it just a flashy commodity. Its fundamental innovation is as a currency system that’s natively digital, peer-to-peer, unconfiscatable, and free of central issuers. As adoption grows and tools develop, this reality will only become clearer — both in policy and in the marketplace.

Further Information

• Parker’s article: graduallythensuddenly.xyz / TFTC.io
• Bitcoin Takeover Event: bitcointakeover.org
• Zaprite: zaprite.com