TFTC Podcast #660: Building Amid Chaos with Will Cole
Host: Marty Bent | Guest: Will Cole | Recorded: September 11, 2025
Published September 13, 2025
Episode Overview
This episode of TFTC, hosted by Marty Bent, centers on how builders, particularly in the Bitcoin ecosystem, can and must persist amid overwhelming global and political chaos. Marty is joined by Will Cole to discuss recent dramatic current events—including the assassination of public figure Charlie Kirk, rising political tension, and technological shifts—before pivoting to their core topic: building resilient Bitcoin businesses. The episode interweaves somber reflections on the state of society with a pragmatic examination of product innovation, specifically spotlighting the Zaprite project and broader trends in Bitcoin adoption and AI development.
Main Themes & Purposes
- Reflecting on recent political and social instability and its connection to freedom, speech, and discourse in the Bitcoin space.
- Exploring the motivations, challenges, and tactics of building vital Bitcoin infrastructure amidst volatility and uncertainty.
- Discussing how technological progress (AI, new tools) is supercharging lean-team startups and Bitcoin-centric businesses.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Processing a Week of Global & National Turmoil
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The conversation opens with the assassination of Charlie Kirk ("less than 24 hours ago, the assassination of Charlie Kirk, which really hits close to home" – Marty, 00:35), discussions of violence, and the sense of “chaos” around September 11.
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Marty and Will reflect on Charlie Kirk's impact on younger generations, his format of Socratic dialogue, and express sadness for his young family.
“He had an incredible impact... particularly how they viewed politics. Most importantly how to engage in political discourse… as bitcoiners, I think hits pretty close to home because we attend a lot of these Socratic events...” – Marty Bent, [03:05]
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Both hosts question the motives and professional nature of the assassination, speculating on broader implications for discourse and political division.
“It seems obvious that this was a very professional operation.” – Marty Bent, [13:50]
“Pulling that off, getting away… doesn’t seem like an amateur job.” – Will Cole, [14:32]
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The duo caution against instantaneous conclusions and retributive backlash, emphasizing the importance of restraint.
“I think it’s imperative to show relative restraint, particularly in the short term, because I think that’s what they want is some misguided backlash and confrontation.” – Marty Bent, [31:58]
2. Broader Political Unrest & the Case for Bitcoin’s Stability
- Marty lists political chaos globally: shakeups in France and Japan, unrest in Nepal and Indonesia, economic confusion (“the BLS job report revision,” Bitcoin at center stage), and recurring misinformation and societal manipulation.
- They reminisce about social tech’s role in political movements—Twitter during the Arab Spring, now replaced by tools like Bitchat and mesh networking which evade censorship ([23:05]).
3. Social Order, Law, and Changing Political Sentiment
- Will provides a personal, pragmatic appraisal of a shift toward valuing order: “I hate to say it, but, like, I think basically every, like, Baptist woman in 1994 that lived in Waco was essentially right about the world in general…” ([29:50]).
- Marty expresses worry that sensational events (like Kirk’s murder) could be manipulated to fracture modest gains in unity and common sense around safety and law.
4. Fiat, Incentives, and the Transformative Role of Bitcoin
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Discussion turns philosophical, with both speakers arguing that fiat money corrupts institutions, distorts incentives, and underpins many modern societal ills.
“Fiat is funding a lot of these insane leftist NGOs and groups that are basically indoctrinating college age students and injecting this mind virus…” – Marty Bent, [41:17]
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The pair also note how Bitcoin offers both a technical and moral “white pill”:
“It feels very good to have this outlet, you know, in the bitcoin world where I do believe that the people working on it are working on something that can fix a lot of these problems.” – Will Cole, [39:29]
5. Propaganda, Vaccines, and Scepticism of Institutions
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Marty and Will delve into the week's controversial events, including vaccine study revelations and the release of “performative,” increasingly blatant propaganda.
“The propaganda is getting so bad … it does get easier to spot, right?” – Will Cole, [43:23]
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The hosts recount anecdotes of censorship (particularly around COVID), doctors punished for early treatment, and the erosion of trust in medical and governmental authorities.
6. Overton Window Shifts: Politics & Bitcoin
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They highlight a notable trend: formerly unthinkable positions (skepticism of vaccine mandates, open criticism of Israeli statecraft, Bitcoin as a nation-state reserve asset) are becoming normalized.
“We’ve made a lot of progress and we succeeded in the last three years.” – Will Cole, [53:18]
7. State of Bitcoin: From Fringe to Foundation
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The main technical/product segment begins around [58:15], as Marty segues to Bitcoin’s legitimacy:
“People are talking about Bitcoin as a serious reserve asset that should be implemented in everybody’s portfolio, from the individual up to the pension, the nation state, whatever it may be.” – Marty Bent, [58:24]
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Marty and Will agree the “Overton window” for Bitcoin has moved rapidly—what was once dismissed as fringe is now an official topic among policymakers, corporations, and even governments.
“The Overton window is shifting towards that, slowly but surely.” – Marty Bent, [59:24]
8. Stablecoins: Distraction or Opportunity?
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Will expresses skepticism of stablecoin regulation as a “tragic lack of focus," arguing it distracts from true innovation on Bitcoin ([62:44]). Both men note that heavy-handed regulation could neuter stablecoin utility.
"Don’t interrupt the enemy when they’re making mistakes... that’s my perspective on stablecoins and the people implementing them." – Marty Bent, [62:47]
9. Zaprite, Square vs Stripe, and Bitcoin Business Infrastructure
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[Ticketing & Payments Segment Begins ~67:50]
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Will details the evolution of Bitcoin business infrastructure—contrasting Stripe's hesitance and lack of Lightning support with the more forward-thinking, all-in approach of Block/Square/Cash App.
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He spotlights Zaprite’s new ticketing system: enabling seamless Bitcoin and fiat ticket sales for events, with powerful UX, Apple Wallet integration, and instant settlement. ([75:42])
“If you have a product that's good enough and you are... demanding bitcoin... and you guys have made it so... if the only way I can get it is paying in bitcoin, I'm going to pay in bitcoin.” – Marty Bent, [83:37]
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Will describes Zaprite as “agnostic” on the payer side (“not a BCasher mentality"), but unequivocally Bitcoin-focused for accumulators and business-owners.
10. The Power of AI for Bitcoin Builders
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[AI & Building Segment Begins ~91:10]
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Will explains how AI tools (Claude, Cursor, Replit, etc.) are revolutionizing small startup productivity—enabling teams of four or five to ship as much as teams three or four times larger. ([94:45])
“I would say they would say that is as if we have somewhere between like two to four junior developers working with us on top of what they do... It's just not really possible. Ten years ago, you don't build an application to Zaprite's stature with four or five people.” – Will Cole, [96:15]
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They recall Stack Overflow’s role in building today’s LLMs (its open Q&A data was foundational), noting both the boon and the peril of Creative Commons in enabling new AI models.
11. Closing Thoughts — Optimism Amidst Darkness
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Despite the chaos, Marty and Will end on a hopeful note about personal agency—urging a focus on “being productive,” faith, family, church, and resiliently building “white pill” products on Bitcoin.
“Never doom, never doom, never doom. Things may be dark.” – Marty Bent, [115:10]
“Go to church. Have kids.” – Will Cole, [115:12]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
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On Charlie Kirk’s assassination:
“Not only an elimination of his life, but an attack on the medium itself, which as bitcoiners, I think hits pretty close to home.” – Marty Bent, [03:35] -
On the risk of overreaction and division:
“That’s what they want is some misguided backlash and confrontation... Move people in the wrong direction, get them distracted and pit against each other.” – Marty Bent, [31:58] -
On the core mission:
"It feels very good to have this outlet, you know, in the bitcoin world where I do believe that the people working on it are working on something that can fix a lot of, a lot of these problems." – Will Cole, [39:29] -
On society’s shifting boundaries:
"There’s a whole group of people... have, like, shifted the Overton Window. There’s bitcoiners that have done it. There’s people in D.C.... I don’t think there’s nearly as much cowardice anymore." – Will Cole, [52:19] -
On building amid chaos:
"The best course of action is... really lean in and focus on what’s... Do your thing, do your thing. And so us, Bitcoin, I think a lot of these... I’m not going to say these political murders will be solved by bitcoin, but... bitcoin can bring about a better incentive framework..." – Marty Bent, [37:41] -
On the productivity leap from AI:
“We’re just getting to do stuff we wouldn’t be able to do otherwise because we didn’t have the money to spend that on that anyway, or we didn’t want to spend our money that way.” – Will Cole, [96:06]
Timestamps for Notable Segments
- [00:35-21:49] – Analyzing Charlie Kirk’s assassination, motives, and political climate
- [23:05-24:53] – Social tech (Bitchat/mesh) as new tools for free speech in revolution
- [28:18-35:37] – The decline of law/order, rise of urban chaos, and shifting political views
- [39:29-42:30] – How fiat ruins incentives, the “white pill” of Bitcoin, and the importance of productive focus
- [43:23-54:06] – Propaganda escalation, vaccine controversies, and truth-seeking under censorship
- [58:24-61:17] – The evolution of Bitcoin’s Overton window in finance, government, and culture
- [67:50-87:06] – In-depth segment on Zaprite: vision, product features, and Bitcoin event ticketing
- [91:10-97:02] – AI applied to Bitcoin product building: small team, big output
- [104:52-108:25] – The need for integrations, missing products in the Bitcoin ecosystem, and opportunity for builders
Closing & Takeaways
- Stay focused and optimistic: In times of chaos, resist the urge for emotional reaction—find ways to contribute to solutions, particularly via Bitcoin and open technologies.
- Bitcoin’s foundational shift: What was once radical is becoming necessary and mainstream; the ecosystem for business, payments, and culture is maturing rapidly.
- AI is a force multiplier for builders: Lean, nimble teams can now leverage AI to build at unprecedented speed and scale.
Further Listening/References
For more episodes and updates, follow Marty Bent and TFTC on your preferred podcast platform.
“Go to church. Have kids. Live the way Charlie would have wanted you to.” – Closing message from Marty & Will, [115:10]