TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast
Episode #692: Free Samourai with Keonne Rodriguez
Date: December 10, 2025
Host: Marty Bent
Guest: Keonne Rodriguez (Co-founder, Samourai Wallet)

Episode Overview

In this intensely personal and urgent episode, Marty Bent sits down with Keonne Rodriguez, co-founder of the privacy-focused Bitcoin wallet, Samourai. The discussion centers on Keonne’s life, beliefs, and the harrowing legal ordeal he and his co-founder Bill face in the United States following their prosecution for developing privacy tools on Bitcoin. Keonne shares the motivations behind Samourai, exposes the government’s unprecedented stance on privacy and financial sovereignty, details shocking missteps and injustices in the trial, and delivers a rallying call for the Bitcoin and liberty communities to recognize the vital importance of privacy in the digital age.

Main Themes & Key Discussion Points

1. The Bull Case for Bitcoin and Privacy (00:07–06:35)

• Money Becomes "Freer than Free":

  • Keonne highlights how rampant fiat currency debasement powers Bitcoin’s appeal.
  • "If you’re not paying attention, you probably should be." — Keonne (00:26)

• Philosophy Behind Samourai Wallet:

  • Marty presses Keonne to explain the founding mission: restoring digital financial privacy and self-custody in the face of growing institutional and societal indifference.
  • Keonne’s background: started in Bitcoin in 2012 at blockchain.info, motivated by the quest for censorship-resistant, bearer money — not speculation (02:28).
  • Disappointed by privacy’s deprioritization in Bitcoin’s development after the 2015 influx of institutional investors, Keonne and Bill doubled down on user-level transactional privacy via application-layer tools.
  • "We wanted to make software that really put the end user in total and absolute control." — Keonne (03:35)

2. Why Financial Privacy Matters (06:35–11:18)

• Privacy Is Fundamental:
  • Even privacy skeptics use envelopes and curtains—privacy is a universal need (06:52).
  • Financial privacy is necessary for free expression and personal safety, especially under authoritarian regimes.
  • On-chain transparency without privacy tools exposes everyday users to physical and economic harm.
  • "If anyone can look at the blockchain and see essentially your net worth in Bitcoin, you’re putting a giant target on your back." — Keonne (07:49)
  • Using Bitcoin without privacy tools is like "walking around with gold coins in my pocket." (10:02)

3. Government Hostility to Privacy & The DOJ’s Perspective (12:05–15:54)

• The Department of Justice (DOJ) and FinCEN view privacy tools with suspicion—viewing their developers as criminals, not builders.
• Marty alludes to a chilling effect for the entire Bitcoin ecosystem if the prosecution of educators and developers continues unchecked.

4. Potential Government Overreach & Precedent (15:54–17:45)

• Keonne warns miners and other builders: "[Miners] are going to be the next ones that are squeezed." (16:13)
• Government arguments hinge on a radical interpretation that “custody and control” is irrelevant; this could greenlight broad crackdowns on non-custodial services and infrastructure providers.

5. The Legal Case: Prosecution, FinCEN, and Judicial Manipulation (20:15–41:09)

a. FinCEN Guidance Contradicts DOJ’s Charges (20:30–23:28)

• FinCEN (since 2013, clarified explicitly in 2019) says only "custodial" entities are money transmitters. Samourai never had custody of user funds.
• Despite this, in April 2024, Keonne and Bill were charged with conspiracy to commit money laundering and operating an unlicensed money services business.
• "We never took custody. Not a single one of our tools we've ever created takes custody." — Keonne (21:54)

b. Suppression of Exculpatory Evidence / Brady Violation (23:28–26:41)

• Government withheld clear evidence from FinCEN stating Samourai wasn’t a money transmitter.
• Only after direct request—over a year into prosecution—was the communication disclosed.
• "It was a bombshell because they had asked FinCEN…'Are they a money transmitter?' FinCEN said, 'No'... But it didn’t matter, they indicted us anyway." (25:40)

c. Judicial Bias and Legal Dead Ends (26:44–33:35)

• Judges were swapped last minute for one with a record of harsh sentences and a background as a top prosecutor.
• Three critical defense motions (including to dismiss for lack of crime) were denied—without argument or explanation.
• "She says, 'I don’t need any argument. I've read all the motions. They're all denied.'" (28:52)
• Keonne realized, "We’re not going to get a fair trial… going to trial was going to end in a conviction and that conviction would be a 25-year sentence." (33:00)

d. Systemic Injustice and Erosion of Due Process (34:54–41:09)

• Marty and Keonne decry a justice system that values narrative over truth, where prosecutors and judges often have overlapping pro-government biases.
• "The truth does not matter. The truth is inconsequential to a criminal trial, a federal criminal trial." — Keonne (36:04)
• "What is this contract we’re engaged in with the federal government?" — Marty (37:38)

6. The Chilling Effect: Precedent and the Fight for Builders’ Rights (41:09–50:03)

• Southern District of New York, described as the “Sovereign District,” acts with impunity, disregarding even internal DOJ guidance and executive orders.
• Government created jurisdiction for the case by sending an FBI agent to Manhattan to initiate a transaction with Samourai Wallet (43:00).
• "If they want to go after you, they will go after you… They will make precedents when they want to make it." — Keonne (58:23)

7. Disproportionate Enforcement & Restitution (44:00–48:47)

• Marty contrasts DOJ's aggressive prosecution of non-custodial developers with the lenient “cost-of-doing-business” fines imposed on big banks for vastly larger sums of actual money laundering.
• The government wanted Keonne and Bill to pay restitution for funds they never had custody of—a Kafkaesque punishment.
• "A conviction is 25 years. And when you finally get out… you have a $237 million debt… you can’t travel… you’re under basically supervised release for the rest of your life." — Keonne (46:43)

8. Chain Surveillance, Heuristics & the Attack on Privacy Tech (47:10–51:41)

• DOJ relies on unverifiable, error-prone reports from Chainalysis/Elliptic to allege illicit activity, and defense cannot meaningfully challenge these due to "national security" pretexts.
• "We already know that the Silk Road cluster… is pretty polluted stuff… that has no relation to Silk Road gets clustered in and tied into being part of Silk Road." — Keonne (47:35)

9. Philosophical Stakes and Call to Action (51:41–66:58)

• DOJ prosecuted software developers but not alleged criminals; charged conspiracy because they had no victim or actual co-conspirator.
• Keonne takes pride in building a well-used, open-source tool: “I’m proud of what we built at Samourai.” (52:11)
• The only hope for reversal is a pardon from President Trump.
• "He said he wanted the US to be the crypto capital of the world… you can’t do that if you’re putting your builders in prison." — Keonne (55:08)
• Marty and Keonne urge the Bitcoin community and listeners to raise awareness and contact the administration to correct this injustice.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "If you're not paying attention, you probably should be." — Keonne (00:26)
• "Privacy was just going to come naturally as part of the progression of the protocol." — Keonne (03:16)
• "Financial privacy being able to support the causes you want to support… all we really wanted to do was replicate the existing financial privacy that you get in the existing traditional finance world." — Keonne (07:24)
• "The government doesn't see any legitimate use for financial privacy on Bitcoin at all." — Keonne (13:07)
• "The truth does not matter. The truth is inconsequential to a criminal trial, a federal criminal trial." — Keonne (36:04)
• "For 10 years, I would get up every day, five or six in the morning, and essentially start work, work on Samurai… Just suddenly nothing. Can’t talk to my friend… That was tough." — Keonne (62:12)
• "Bitcoin broadly has a potential to advance human freedom like no other technology before it, but… it has the ability to become a surveillance panopticon and completely enslave us." — Keonne (65:07)

Important Timestamps

• 00:07–06:35: Keonne’s background, philosophy, and the origin story of Samourai Wallet
• 06:35–11:18: Why privacy in financial transactions matters for all; practical and philosophical angles
• 20:15–26:41: How the government’s own sources contradicted the DOJ’s charges
• 28:52–33:00: The shocking court appearance, motion denials, and reality of judicial bias
• 36:04: Keonne on the irrelevance of “truth” in the current court system
• 43:00: Creation of jurisdiction through government entrapment
• 44:00–46:43: Disparity in enforcement against banks vs. privacy tech builders
• 51:41–53:31: Lack of actual victims or co-conspirators; the meaninglessness of "precedent" when the government wants to make an example

Flow & Takeaways

This episode is a powerful firsthand account of the hurdles facing privacy advocates in the Bitcoin community. With clarity and candor, Keonne exposes a US legal system willing to ignore its own rules, disregard exonerating facts, and pursue not criminal conduct, but the act of defying a burgeoning surveillance regime. The stakes are clear—privacy, fairness, and liberty for all users and builders hang in the balance.

Call to Action:
Listeners are urged to support Keonne, Bill, and others in the non-custodial privacy space, sign the petition, and raise awareness—reminding those in power that if builders can be imprisoned for writing open-source code, all digital rights are at risk.