← That Can't Be True with Chelsea Clinton
That Can't Be True with Chelsea Clinton
Emily Oster's Data-Backed Guide to Surviving Summer Break
00:38:09
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- [00:02]
A
Lemonada.
- [00:11]
B
Welcome to that Can't Be True, a show that sorts fact from fiction, especially on issues impacting our health. I'm Chelsea Clinton. We're in the peak of summer, which means longer days, generally hotter days, at least for those of us in the United States, and also fewer routines. And all that comes from with questions for us as parents. We're thinking about sunscreen and bug spray and whether our kids are losing ground academically while school's out. And how do we balance parenting with work during the summer? Or is it just maybe impossible, if not all the time at some times? And to sort through what we know from data what we don't know? On all of this and more, I'm joined by one of my favorite guests, Emily Oster. Emily is an economist at Brown University, the founder of Parent Data, the best selling author of Expecting Better Crib Sheet and the Family Firm. She's appropriately, really well known for taking lots of research and helping us as parents understand it through clear, practical guidance. Emily, thank you for coming back.
- [01:25]
A
I'm so excited to see you.
- [01:27]
B
I'm so excited to talk about. So I feel like we have to sort of return to where we were just not that long ago. Which is when you were thankfully just showing up wherever you could to debunk the claims that Tylenol causes autism.
- [01:43]
A
Oh, yes, yes. Remember when that was a thing and then, and then they decided it wasn't
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B
and now it's disappeared. Can we talk about that? Like, it just, the conspiracy theory wasn't, like it didn't have enough like, traction or salience or. What do you think, Emily, I've been dying to ask you this question literally for months.
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A
I will tell you, basically the problem with that conspiracy theory is that first of all, it was wrong, which is, you know, true of many of these theories, but it was, it was wrong. And then more data started coming out showing it was wrong. So it was kind of like piling on the information that it's, it's not right. But I think the other thing is no one was really that committed. I think they came up with that
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B
idea because they needed something that month
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A
out of a sense of desperation. Like you said, we were going to solve it at the end of September. It's like September 29th. We can't just say vaccines again because people heard that. And so this is a new thing. And then no one was really committed. And so they had, they lacked follow through on their conspiracy theory.
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B
Don't we wish it were always that way? I mean, I would wish that the conspiracy theory's not like I wish they didn't sprout or whatever the right metaphor.
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A
Yeah. This is sort of like one of those little like died on the vine conifers where it's like it tries so hard but then someone just like steps on it. And then you're like, well, better luck next time.
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B
I'm so curious. Are there any other either, you know, maha related or not Maha related conspiracies in the last, you know, six months since we spoke that have like peaked their heads up but thankfully not taken hold?
- [03:20]
A
I will say things have been quite quiet on that front. I mean, I think the. A very unfortunate reality is that one of the things that is disciplined and we knew would discipline some of the anti vax sentiment is the fact that people got measles. So there was sort of, you could see this coming down the line, like as we're saying the measles vaccine is bad, etc. And people aren't getting it and was like, well then some people are gonna get measles. And then they did. And then I think people started to realize, well actually like I don't really wanna get measles.
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B
Yeah. Or have my kids have to not be able to go to school. Cause whole schools are shut down because of measles exposures.
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A
Exactly. So I think those things have just dialed down a lot and we're left with, you know, the kind of regular, you know, they're changing the colors in the M and Ms, things like that, which are kind of fine. So it's been a, it's been a somewhat quiet period.
- [04:12]
B
I want to move now to our that can't be true segment where as you know, because we've done this before, we play some tape that's been circulating recently and get your reaction. And it's summertime. And so there's, I think, lots of people thinking about what our kids should be doing, maybe what they shouldn't be doing, and whether or not our kids might lose some intellectual, cognitive, academic skills they might have learned in the previous school year. So here's some recent tape from TikTok on the quote unquote, summer slide.
- [04:51]
C
Summer slide is a very real thing and impacts all grade levels, all ages. Essentially. What that means is if you don't use it, you lose it. Statistically speaking, students will lose about one month of things they just learned throughout the school school year over the course of summer break. If no sort of learning academic fun things happen. And it doesn't have to be sitting down reading a book. It can be. But it's not limited to just that.
- [05:19]
B
So, Emily, admittedly, I have flashbacks to my mom, and admittedly, now me as a mom, telling my kids, like, we still have to read and practice our instruments and play games and do word searches because we gotta keep your brain active. Do we really need to keep our brains active? Do our kids lose a month's worth of learning during the summer? What do we need to know about the summer slide? Tell us.
- [05:44]
A
Yeah, so she's. So she's right in one sense. And the. The kind of data that pulls on is if you test kids, as many places do, at the end of the school year and then the beginning of the following school year, you will see a decline in. In scores. And it's the equivalent of about a month of. Of school. Now, that's a little different from saying you lose all of that. There's a kind of, like, rustiness. And so the question of, you know, do you lose that? Like, as if the whole school year forever. Right. You kind of get it back. So I. It's a little complicated exactly what that means, but there definitely is some loss. I don't think we should find that very surprising. You know, we study for a test. You learn a bunch of things about fractions when you come back in the fall. Maybe you don't exactly remember how to, like, add fractions as you did before. So that is true. Whether it's something to worry about, I think is less clear. Should your kids be doing reading and word searches over the summer? I don't. I think it's a good idea to keep our brains active and do stuff. But if the question is, you know, should my kid be, like, cramming for math so they don't lose, you know, a little bit of fraction information? No, I don't think. There's not much evidence to support that.
- [07:00]
B
I'm sure you didn't have this challenge, but my fourth and fifth graders this year, this has nothing to do really, with anything, except I'm just now confessing to you. We're learning math in a different way than I learned math.
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A
Oh, the new math is the worst, Chelsea. It's the worst.
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B
And truly, I found myself, like, staring at these. They were learning, like, by bars, and I was like, I'm sorry. Can I just do it the way that I used it? Please do it.
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A
You wait until you get to geometry. Like, I wasn't good at geometry when I was in high school.
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B
I love geometry, but now I'm thinking I'm not gonna be. But I'M not gonna be good at the new geometry.
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A
So at some point, my. My kid texts me, like, do you know, like, I need help? It's about tangents. And so I'm like, okay, I'll be right there. On the way up, I'm in, like, chatgpt. I'm like, remind me what a tangent is. Like, it's so bad.
- [07:52]
B
And. And were you helpful?
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A
Yeah. It's like the opposite over the adjacent. It's some kind of, like, ratio of thing. This doesn't come up. Okay. I'm a person with a. Like, I do. I'm like a data scientist. You know, I still.
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B
Tangents.
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A
Cosine sines. This is not. We're not using this. I'm not using it.
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B
You're not worried about the angle of a triangle every day when you're standing
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A
looking up at the sun? What is that?
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B
And you're like, you're not supposed to look at the sun.
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A
First of all. Don't look at the sun. Okay, step one. What are you trying to do, blind my child? Is that what you're encouraging here in the new math?
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B
Yeah. Okay, good. I'm glad I'm not alone. I'm glad I'm not alone.
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A
You're not alone.
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B
Although I was giving you a lot of grace that you maybe had figured it out.
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A
Nope.
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B
All right, so back to summer.
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A
Yeah.
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B
The season that we're currently in together. There's some new research which, not surprisingly, seems to just continue to add to the body of research that shows that working moms have a hard time balancing parenting in the summer months in particular. Although parenting tasks generally with work. What actual information do you have for working parents about how to navigate summer with our kids and the fact that we still have work to do?
- [09:07]
A
Yeah, I mean, look, this is. This is a huge challenge for people. And one of the things I think is probably worth saying as a kind of level setting is, like, people now are spending, like, twice as many hours a week with their kids as our parents spent with us.
- [09:24]
B
And I don't think that's well understood.
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A
No, it's like, people think, like, oh, in the 1970s, 1980s. Like, people. No, actually, like, the average amount of time for both women and men has about doubled over this period in terms of how much time people are spending with their children. And so that translates in, like, sort of into this summer. Like, we're somehow expecting ourselves to be spending all of these hours with our kids and also all of these hours at our job. And that's true all through the year. And then you drop on the summer where the childcare solutions are trash. Often, I mean, the kind of navigating the school year is great because there's school, but in the summer you're kind of navigating a bunch of, you know, potentially expensive and not that convenient camps. And I think parents find themselves, you know, even in a case when people have quite a lot of resources, find themselves really strapped in terms of, you know, what is my kid going to do? Why is it camp pick up at noon? How do I navigate this? And so the main thing I would say there's. The first thing I would say is like, this is just. It would be better if we had a better support system and more wraparound camp summer child care for parents. But it's just worth saying, like, this is a. This is a hard navigation for many, many people.
- [10:39]
B
And I know that you and your husband send weekly emails.
- [10:42]
A
I've read we do send weekly emails. Yes, the weekly emails are very helpful.
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B
What are in those emails? How do they change in the summer?
- [10:50]
A
Okay, so the family has two emails. The first is an email that I send on the weekend about the following week. And it's just a list of the days and a list of each of the people in the family. And also a thing that says dinner. And it just lists what people are doing that day. And it's sort of like, this is who's doing pickup, this is who's doing drop off.
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B
Emily, this makes me. I do this. I do this on a monthly basis. Like, I try to do it the third week, forecasting the month ahead.
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A
Yeah. So I think you do it monthly. I think for us, the weekly is helpful because often it's like things are getting put in and then the month is like too far in, in advance.
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B
Yeah, I'm listening to you. Maybe that's a better unit of time. Okay, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.
- [11:27]
A
So I send it to everybody, including the children who never read it, but I'm hopeful. And then it is an opportunity, you know, to both just say, here's what's going on. And then for us to surface any conflicts. So for, you know, somebody to say, well, actually, I'm not around that. Like, I can't do that pickup. Okay, who can do that pick up. And then sometimes for our kids to be like, oh, I actually wanted to do this instead of this. And so you sort of like, have an opportunity not to avoid conflict, but to have it in an earlier moment. Like, it's much better on Sunday to be like, I know you're expecting me to do drop off on Thursday, but I can't. Than to wake up at 6am on Thursday and be like, okay, so you're doing drop off. And the person be like, I'm not doing. Like. That's a high conflict situation. The conflict of that on Sunday is less bad. So for us, that's been really good. And then my husband sends an email in the middle of the week that is about the weekend that's like, here's what we're doing on. On the weekend. That has been. This has been like a cornerstone of our family and is like one of the most useful things we do. It seems very simple, but it just really dials down conflict.
- [12:31]
B
I think it's really helpful, pragmatic advice. I also know you're vigilant about protecting your Sundays.
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A
Yeah, we try very hard. And, you know, as my kids have gotten older, it's more challenging. Sometimes we try very hard when we. To the extent we can, to protect Sunday mornings to do some family activity. Um, it's almost always hiking, but it could do something else. Um, but to sort of have some time that we say like that, like during the weekend we will have a couple hours with the four of us to do something together, and we're gonna not schedule other things. And that. That disciplines both, you know, what, when the kids were little, or discipline, like what kind of parties we would agree to go to or what kind of activities. And now sometimes it disciplines, like what I choose to do or what the adults. Yeah, the adults. And so. And I think that's. It's not for everybody. It's something that's very important to our particular family unit. Like, that's. That's something we really value. And so we decided it was important and then we prioritized it.
- [13:30]
B
I was just thinking how generally we had family movie nights on Saturday night. And then we would do something different at least one Sunday afternoon a month. And sometimes in the summers, often when everyone was around, it would maybe be every week. And what I remember most was I had read and I can't even remember what book I'd read. I was probably like 6 or 7. I had read a book, and in the book, the kids were eating coconuts. And I was like. I was like, Arkansas in, like, the mid late 1980s. I was like, I had never had a coconut.
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A
Sure.
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B
And so we went to like, the fancy grocery store. I think it was the first time I'd ever been to the fancy grocery store. And we got coconuts, but we didn't know how to open the coconuts. And so I have these memories, Emily, of, like, my parents and me in our driveway, like, at the Governor's mansion, admittedly, slamming down the coconut.
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A
That's not how you do it. No, you need, like, a screwdriver and a hammer.
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B
Slamming them down. That wasn't working. And then at some point, one of my parents, I can't remember which one, went and got a hammer. And just, like, they did not let me do this. Cause again, I was like, six or seven. Safety, you know, cracked open the coconut.
- [14:40]
A
I think the thing my kids like the most that we do if it's raining is there is a thing in. In Rhode Island, Providence, called the Electromagnetic Pinball Museum. And it's like a giant, like, for people who live in Rhode island or, like, southern Massachusetts, this is for you. It's just like a guy's like. It's like a. Like a warehouse, like an abandoned warehouse where he has all of these antique pinball machines. And you pay $10 and you can stay as long as you want and play all these machines. And they're all, like, programmed so you can just keep playing and playing and playing. You don't have to put any money in.
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B
And.
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A
And that's it. It's just like this huge warehouse full of these pinball machines.
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B
Oh, my gosh, my children.
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A
It's a good activity.
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B
Love that.
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A
Yeah, it's a good activity.
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B
One of the phenomenon that I've been obsessed with recently has been the growing animus against sunscreen and sun protection broadly. We recently had Dr. Neera Nathan on to all of this. And I'm just curious, do you have any hypotheses about where this has emerged from?
- [15:53]
A
I think it is in the general, like, fear of toxins and chemicals space, which is, you know, become popular on Instagram, the kind of like. And I'm sure TikTok and other places, the idea that you were exposed to too many chemicals and chemicals are getting into you, and then they might be bad in some way that we don't fully understand.
- [16:16]
B
But uv. UV radiation, good.
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A
In this space, there is a kind of, like, chemicals versus nature. You know, sun. Sun is. Nature is good. Chemicals are bad. And if nature comes with UV radiation, I guess it must be good. In practice when we look at the data, you know, excessive sun exposure is associated with sunburn, which can be very painful and uncomfortable and associated with some kinds of developments of some kinds of skin cancer in the long term, particularly basal cell carcinoma, but also to some extent, with Melanoma. So there's a lot of reasons to wear sunscreen, and there is no reason not to wear it. These concerns about chemicals are not well founded in the data. And I would say to people, you know, if you are very worried about the chemicals and you really don't want to have chemical sunscreen, at least wear mineral sunscreen. Yes, it will turn your face white, but it will protect you from the sun. And that is important.
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B
And just to put a fine point on it, kids can wear sunscreen.
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A
Kids should, should, should wear sunscreen. Even more important for kids to wear sunscreen in some ways because their skin is not all wrinkly yet and you don't want them to get there.
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B
And you need to protect babies from the sun, too.
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A
So babies are super interesting because people are told, you know, don't use a sunscreen on your baby under six months. And there's some truth to that. But I think the big thing is, like, your baby under six months actually really shouldn't be in the sun in a meaningful way. And if you're gonna have them in the sun, you should have them shaded. Covered. And you should have them shaded. They should have a hat. And you should remember that they get
- [17:54]
B
very hot because they can't really regulate their temperature the way that we can.
- [17:58]
A
Exactly. And their ratio of skin, of skin to body sizes is different. And so babies should have less heat exposure and should not be directly in the sun. If you are going to have a baby in the sun, it actually is okay to put a little sunscreen on, like their hands and feet if they're exposed. But the most important thing is to keep them in the shade.
- [18:19]
B
We have a lot of bugs also in the summer.
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A
Sure. Sure you do.
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B
We have a lot of ticks, and I haven't seen the same animus against bug spray that I've seen against sunscreen. But it might be percolating.
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A
Sit there. It's there.
- [18:36]
B
Do you have a favorite insect repellent?
- [18:38]
A
Yeah, deet. So deet. DEET based insect repellents are really good for protecting. If you don't want to use deet. Even though there is no evidence of risk from deet, some people, it makes them very anxious. You can use a bicardin based insect repellent, which also works. If you're using DEET, you want to look for like, 30%. You don't need to go above 30%. Uh, you can also treat your clothes. If you're gonna be hiking a lot, you can treat your clothes with pyrethrum and that will keep ticks and mosquitoes off of, off of you. But I will, I will say it's good for your kids to wear bug repellent. It's good, good to avoid mosquitoes, et cetera. For ticks in particular, you really do want to check your children and yourself for ticks after they have been outside. And every day that people are outside, you should be looking for ticks because ticks are particularly bad if they stay on you and you really want to get them off. And they can be very hard to see. It's not like a cell, like a mosquito. It's like quite, they're quite small and
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B
there are increasingly more of them and they're living for longer.
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A
Yeah, ticks are the worst. Ticks are the terrible animal. And I wish that we had a Lyme vaccine, which we sort of do. We're getting towards a Lyme vaccine, getting closer. My husband is going to be the first person who gets the Lyme vaccine. Like if there is an experimental form of this, he is getting like, he would, he would be just, he would take anything. He hates the idea of ticks.
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B
Let's go back to deet. Why, why are some people so wary?
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A
Well, there's the chemical issue, same with the sunscreen. I think there's also a thing around, and this is purely speculative, but there was this DDT stuff that we like sprayed for mosquitoes that was like very bad for animals. Anti malaria, very good Anti malaria, but
- [20:37]
B
like overused, terrible for bald eagles.
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A
Overused with birds. I think that because DEET sounds like DDT that has somehow collapsed in some people's minds. In some, like there's some subconscious. This is not database, this is just my theory. Uh, but that people are like connecting this in some way. But it may also just be that these, this is a chemical and people are worried about using chemicals on their kids in particular. Even though the AAP is very clear, you should be using deet.
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B
Yeah, I, I, I have noticed that the AAP is very clear about that.
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A
They're very into it. Do you want me to give you my. Wait, let me give you a piece of advice about mosquito prevention that I think is really useful.
- [21:19]
B
Yes. Are you going to tell me to like swath myself in like an old fashioned net?
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A
This is for when you're going to eat outside.
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B
Because I could really like go with the Victorian look, I think, and my children would find it hilarious.
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A
So that's definitely one good option. But if you're looking to protect yourself in a way that maybe is less Fashionable. You can get a thing like, it's called like a Thermocell. Like it's like a carton and you, and you put it, you like charge it up and you put it in the middle of your table. It protects a 20 minute, a 20 like foot radius around the table. And it just like it puts out something that the mosquitoes don't like the smell of. Very, very effective, Very effective.
- [22:02]
B
I don't know about that. Yeah, you should get that thermacel. All right, note to self. Get off with Emily. Immediately order. Immediately order.
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A
You can add a mosquito net dress also. And then just test like, which is better.
- [22:15]
B
One of the things that I've been thinking a lot about is hydration. Because we've had some very hot days here in New York. And also when we're leaving the house even to go to the local playground, my kids are like, do we have our water bottles? And yet the focus on always accessible water.
- [22:39]
A
Yes.
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B
Does seem like a notable difference than when we were, when we were kids. Immalee. So what do we need to know about hydration?
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A
Hydration is important. Things like you need eight glasses of water a day are completely fabricated. There's no like rule about how much water you need in a given day. You do need more water when it's hot because you are losing more water.
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B
Wait, Emily, can we go back to that?
- [23:04]
A
It's made up.
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B
You don't.
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A
It's made up.
- [23:06]
B
You don't need a. You don't need it. Is that even like an average across stud? Is that like studies?
- [23:10]
A
I don't think so. I think it's just. Somebody just made it up. I don't think it's like, I don't think that's based on anything.
- [23:15]
B
Big water, Emily. Big water.
- [23:18]
A
Big water, Big water. Gotcha.
- [23:20]
B
But, but how was. What's a general guideline?
- [23:22]
A
Your pee should be a light colored yellow.
- [23:25]
B
And so if your pee is dark, drink more water.
- [23:27]
A
If your pee is like a dark as a dark yellow, you should be drinking more water. If your pee is completely clear, you might be drinking too much water. But I don't know why. I don't know what was the moment when people got into. I think it's gotta be some kind of thing about water bottles. There must be like, it must be big, big reusable water bottle kind of got into like people need to be carrying around in a walla all the time. Oh, but I think the other thing is, I think we used to drink a lot more juice. So the other thing that happened Here is, like, when I was a kid, you had juice. Like, my brother ate. Like, he. We'd have these, like, frozen juice popsicles. They were like, just juice. They weren't like, you know, sugar popsicles. They were just, like, juicy frozen.
- [24:09]
B
You would, like, make them at home. You would, like. And you would stick the popsicles.
- [24:12]
A
Yeah, I did that, too.
- [24:13]
B
Yeah, of course.
- [24:13]
A
Yeah. And he would eat, like, nine orange popsicles every day in the summer. Like, that's all. He was just like. His whole diet was just these, like, orange juice popsicles. And so I wonder whether now that kids drink a lot less juice, we may have, like, subbed that into water a bit.
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B
I was just thinking about. I remember after my soccer and softball practices, like, the exquisite pleasure of a Capri sun.
- [24:38]
A
Oh, so good. You know what's great that we have in Rhode island, if you're ever in Rhode island, is frozen lemonade. It's like a special Rhode island thing. It's like a frozen, slushy lemonade. It's like, after you go running, that's like. It's like the best post run.
- [24:53]
B
I mean, I went running so early this morning. I just had a cup of coffee after my run, which, you know.
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A
Yeah, no, it's not. It's more of, like, an afternoon. You're like an afternoon run afternoon, or.
- [25:02]
B
I feel like now we have to come visit you. We'll have to impose ourselves for the pinball machine extravaganza and the frozen lemonade. And we can go running.
- [25:11]
A
We can go running. We did the other day, try to make a thing called banana ice cream, which is just taking frozen bananas and putting them in the food processor, which the New York Times assured me was a crowd pleaser. And I will say my husband and I really liked it. And my kids were like, no. Jesse and I were like, ooh, this is amazing. And they were like, sorry, this is just bananas.
- [25:32]
B
And not in a metaphorical sense.
- [25:34]
A
They were like, it's just literally a banana.
- [25:37]
B
So wait, you just blend the bananas, and then you freeze them?
- [25:40]
A
No, no, no. You freeze.
- [25:41]
B
Or you blend the frozen.
- [25:42]
A
You freeze the bananas, and then you put them in a food processor and turn it on. That's the whole recipe. And it actually. You leave it on for a while, and it does, like, develop the consistency of ice cream. And then you put it in a thing, and then you, like, refreeze it, and then you scoop it. Like ice cream. It was pretty good.
- [25:59]
B
We eat a lot of frozen fruit in our family. We like fruit. We eat a lot of non Frozen fruit. But we eat a lot of frozen fruit.
- [26:04]
A
Frozen fruit is very good. Yeah, like, that's a very good way because they don't decay their nutrients. You just freeze. Freeze the nutrients.
- [26:09]
B
You flash freeze them.
- [26:10]
A
Yes, totally. Once I told my kids I was going to write a book called Freezing Flat, which was just about how, like, you can freeze basically anything if you, like, put it out flat first. Anyway, I'm not going to do that.
- [26:22]
B
I mean, going to be a chapter in your next.
- [26:24]
C
I love that.
- [26:25]
A
Like, the idea was it was gonna be a coffee table book with just pictures of all the stuff that you could freeze. Cause the thing is, like, when you freeze muffins, you can't stack them and freeze them. You have to freeze them flat first and then put them in the container because then they don't stick together.
- [26:41]
B
That's okay. Maybe with your kids it's not like, you know, Rizzoli coffee table book material, but I think it could definitely be a chapter in your next book.
- [26:53]
A
Okay, I'll be considerate.
- [27:10]
B
Emily, are there any other summer related topics that we didn't talk about that you either have a lot of enthusiasm for, you're concerned about?
- [27:20]
A
Ooh, yes, please.
- [27:21]
B
Ooh, yes, tell me.
- [27:23]
A
Pools.
- [27:23]
B
Okay.
- [27:24]
A
And drowning. So I think one of the, like, this is a more serious topic, but summer is a time people are swimming. People are exposed to more pools. Pools are actually. They're very fun, but they are actually pretty dangerous.
- [27:39]
B
Very dangerous, yes.
- [27:41]
A
So drowning is a fairly high ranking cause of death for kids of a variety of ages and all over.
- [27:51]
B
And all over the world.
- [27:52]
A
All over the world. And so it is like, the main thing I would tell people is like, if there are kids in a pool, you should be watch. An adult should be watching them.
- [28:02]
B
Never turn your back.
- [28:03]
A
Do not get on your phone. Like, someone has to get on your phone actually watching. Watching the kids. And if you are in a place that, like you're saying in a hotel, an Airbnb or something with a. With a pool, it needs a gate.
- [28:15]
B
Yes.
- [28:16]
A
If you have a little kid, like, unlock the doors. And this is something where, you know, people worry so much about stuff that isn't actually a concern, like sunscreen. And then don't worry enough about some of the things like pools, which are actually a very significant concern. So I would say just be really be like, appropriately cautious around pools and
- [28:40]
B
hopefully teach your kids to swim as soon as possible.
- [28:44]
A
Yes. Teach your kids to swim as soon as possible, but also don't leave them alone. Still want to be watching them. You know, still want to watch them even if they know how to swim. Anything.
- [28:52]
B
I just think you want.
- [28:53]
A
You want multiple spelt and suspenders. Belt and suspenders. Teach your kids to swim.
- [28:58]
B
Multiple ways of protection.
- [28:59]
A
Absolutely.
- [29:00]
B
Emily. I once jumped into a pool fully clothed because the kid had flipped over and, like, a flotation device.
- [29:06]
A
Me, too.
- [29:07]
B
Yep.
- [29:07]
A
Yeah.
- [29:08]
B
But thank. Thank God.
- [29:09]
A
Yeah, totally.
- [29:11]
B
I want to go to our fact or fiction segment now where we'll, you know, as you know, I'm going to throw out some things and you're going to tell me if they're fact or fiction. Some of it we've already covered, but I want to put a finer point on it, and in some, there might be nuance. And you're going to tell us. Okay.
- [29:28]
A
All right.
- [29:28]
B
It's safe to bring newborns to the pool or beach. Fact or fiction?
- [29:33]
A
Fact. But they need to be covered up and kept in the shade as much as possible.
- [29:39]
B
Babies can go in both chlorine and salt water.
- [29:44]
A
Fact. Babies can go in water. Yeah.
- [29:48]
B
You shouldn't worry if your infant isn't sweating before they're six months old. Fact or fiction?
- [29:54]
A
Babies sweat much less than other people. And so, you know, if you're worried about stuff like that, you should always ask. But babies generally don't sweat as much.
- [30:06]
B
But like many things, if you're worried,
- [30:09]
A
ask your pediatrician if you're worried about something like this, you should ask your pediatrician.
- [30:12]
B
Yep.
- [30:13]
A
Yes.
- [30:14]
B
There's a magic number of books that kids should read over the summer to keep their brains active.
- [30:21]
A
Fiction reading is good. Look, reading is fun. Reading is a fun activity, but there's not a magic number of books. And I will say summer is a great time if your kid likes graphic novels or to be a little more flexible than they get to be during the school year about the kinds of books that they read.
- [30:46]
B
Summer boredom can be a good thing for kids. Fact or fiction?
- [30:49]
A
Fact. Our whole lives were about being bored in the summer. That's how you come up with good ideas.
- [30:55]
B
I tell my kids when they say to me, I mean, this is invariably what I say to them, Emily, when they're like, I'm so bored. I say, how lucky are you?
- [31:02]
A
Yeah, it's true.
- [31:04]
B
You are so lucky. You're so fortunate.
- [31:06]
A
Yeah, I bet they just walk away from that. That's like a terrible mom thing to say. Ah, here's it again. Yep.
- [31:12]
B
Probably second only to when they ask a question about something benign like, why is the street sign that color mom? And it launches into, like, a whole History of something that they didn't actually inquire about. And they're like, mom, not everything has
- [31:25]
A
to be a teachable moment. My husband does that a lot. And my kids call it an ldl, a long, boring lecture.
- [31:32]
B
I'm not going to be telling my children that you said that. Otherwise I too, will be branded with that. Working from home is linked to having more children. Fact or fiction?
- [31:42]
A
Yes. We actually have seen some evidence that when parents are working from home, either one or both, fertility rates are higher for reasons that seem obvious.
- [31:52]
B
What did we not talk about that we should have, if anything?
- [31:55]
A
I think we got a lot of stuff today.
- [31:57]
B
I'm a.
- [31:58]
A
We didn't talk about running. We didn't talk, like, a lot about your. Your, like, New York City Marathon or whatever was or bought you in Boston.
- [32:04]
B
Boston. We didn't run.
- [32:05]
A
We didn't talk about the Boston Marathon. Oh, my God. What happened?
- [32:07]
B
I tripped and fell at mile 23, and I wound up breaking a bone in my hand. Though I would like the record to reflect that I did see the doctor afterwards, like, you know, one of the doctors at the finish line, and they said that I was okay. And then a few weeks later, it was just not true. Like, my hand was still quite distended and swollen and many colors that it should not have been. So. But it'll be fine. And it was an amazing experience, and I'm so excited.
- [32:35]
A
Boston is an amazing. That's an amazing race. That's like a very, very cool race. Anyway, that's not really.
- [32:42]
B
Well, if you ever want to come out of your marathon retirement, since I know you're only doing half marathons, I
- [32:46]
A
actually might run one in the fall. I'm trying to see how it gets, you know, get sucked in.
- [32:52]
B
I. I'm very familiar. I'm very familiar.
- [32:54]
A
Exactly. It's hard to quit.
- [32:55]
B
So, yeah, I have no.
- [32:56]
A
I have no interest in quitting, Brooke.
- [32:58]
C
Bro.
- [32:58]
B
I cracked two ribs. The whole thing.
- [33:00]
A
No interest. My family would like me to quit. They were very upset at the idea we're doing it again, but. Oh, well, too bad.
- [33:06]
B
Blame me. Blame me. You're like, I don't know.
- [33:08]
A
Chelsea told me to do it.
- [33:09]
B
I'm telling you to do it. Emily, this was great. Thank you so much. I look forward to our next conversation already. And as always, I learned a lot, and I'm just really grateful for all you do.
- [33:19]
A
It was wonderful to see you. Thanks for having me.
- [33:25]
B
You can learn more about Emily Oster, Prof. Emily Oster on Instagram or on her website. Parentdata.org thanks for listening. Talk to you next week. That Can't Be True is a production of Limonada Media and the Clinton Foundation. The show is produced by Katherine Barnes, mix and sound design by Johnny Vince Evans. Kristin Lepore is Senior Director of New Content and Jackie Danziger is VP of Narrative and Production. Maggie Kral Shore is our Managing Director of Partnerships. Executive producers are Jessica Cordova Kramer, Stephanie Whittles, Wax and me, Chelsea Clinton. Special thanks to Erika Goodmanson, Sara Horowitz, Francesca Ernst Kahn, Caroline Lewis, Sage Falter, Barry Lurie Westerberg, Emily Young and the entire team at the Clinton Foundation. You can help others find our show by leaving us a rating and writing a review. And if you can think of someone who might benefit from today's episode, please go ahead and share it with them. There's more of that Can't Be True with Lemonada. Premium subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content when you subscribe on Apple Podcasts. You can also listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership.