← That Can't Be True with Chelsea Clinton
That Can't Be True with Chelsea Clinton
Ticks, Ebola, and a Flesh-Eating Comeback with Laurel Bristow
00:38:23
Loading summary
Transcript73 lines
- [00:02]
Laurel Bristow
Lemonada.
- [00:11]
Chelsea Clinton
Welcome to that Can't Be True, a show that sorts fact from fiction, especially on issues impacting our health. I'm Chelsea Clinton and today we are covering, well, a lot, from the Ebola outbreak across the DRC in Uganda to a flesh eating parasite making a deeply unwelcome comeback in American livestock, to what we all need to know about ticks. And joining us to make sense of it all is Laurel Bristow. She's an infectious disease epidemiologist based at Emory University in Atlanta and one of the most entertaining and trusted public health communicators online. So we'll dig into where Ebola stands right now and what containment, good, humane, evidence based containment actually looks like, why the new World screwworm is suddenly back in the headlines. And a lot more. Hi.
- [01:10]
Laurel Bristow
Hello.
- [01:11]
Chelsea Clinton
Thank you so much for doing this and it's so nice to meet you.
- [01:13]
Laurel Bristow
It's so nice to meet you. Yeah. I think you had Jessica on your show too, right?
- [01:17]
Chelsea Clinton
I did. I did. Love her. Love her. I agree. Before we jump in to many things public health, I have to ask you about being an axolotl mom because my children are obsessed with axolotls. Axolotls are in like, they're, they're really like the under 12 crowd. We're really, we have stuffed axolotl animals. I think on all three of my kids beds, there are lots of axolotl stickers adorning water bottles. So I'm just so curious, like, how you became an axolotl mom.
- [01:55]
Laurel Bristow
Yeah, I mean, they were not, they were not in vogue when I got.
- [01:58]
Chelsea Clinton
You're like, I was a, you're like. I was a trendsetter.
- [02:01]
Laurel Bristow
Well, so I have always loved axolotl. The Steinhardt Aquarium in the Cal Academy of Sciences in San Francisco is one of my favorite places. And they had an axolotl. And that was always my like favorite thing to go visit that axolotl because they always kind of look like they're smiling. They're really cute. And then when I moved to Georgia, some friends and I went to Repticon, which is a reptile convention.
- [02:23]
Chelsea Clinton
Okay.
- [02:23]
Laurel Bristow
Have never heard of Repticon, but very fun. Highly suggest after our interview, I'll definitely
- [02:28]
Chelsea Clinton
be googling repticon near me.
- [02:30]
Laurel Bristow
Yeah. They travel around and I highly suggest you go there. It's quite an experience. But there was a woman who was selling axolotls there and I was like, you were like, this is my moment. I can have one. So I got axolotl rose. That was about six years ago. She was very sweet and she lived a lot longer than I expected. Unfortunately, she did pass about a year ago and we had a lovely vice Viking funeral for her at my friend's house. But, yeah, people always ask me, are they hard to take care of? And the answer is no. If you can get the water chemistry right after that, you know, it's partial water changes on a regular basis and a worm every day. And that's about it.
- [03:08]
Chelsea Clinton
Okay, I just have to ask how you named her Rose, because admittedly I had a goldfish named Rose as a child.
- [03:14]
Laurel Bristow
Oh, really? Well, it's actually a pun. It is Axel Lottle Rose.
- [03:19]
Chelsea Clinton
Oh, I should have figured that out as a Guns N Roses fan.
- [03:22]
Laurel Bristow
Well, yeah, her full. Her full legal name was Axolotl. Monster Truck Rose Bristow.
- [03:28]
Chelsea Clinton
I mean, Laurel. What comes next? I mean, how could you, how can you ever have another pet? Because how can you ever rival the name?
- [03:38]
Laurel Bristow
Yeah, I have a cat who is named Moonpie. Agatha Christie Bristowe.
- [03:42]
Chelsea Clinton
So we love Agatha Christie in our family. That was such a fun conversation. And now to less fun, though arguably more important topics. I really just have so much that I'm looking forward to covering with you today. And I want to start with Ebola because it has painfully reemerged in a fearsome way. And so I thought we'd start with our that can't be True segment where we kind of play some recent tape. And this is something that was recently
- [04:12]
Julie Louis-Dreyfus
on NBC News Tonight, as Ebola cases in Africa surge. The Trump administration vowing it won't spread here.
- [04:19]
Laurel Bristow
We cannot and will not allow any cases of Ebola to enter the United States.
- [04:23]
Julie Louis-Dreyfus
The White House announcing it will set up a state of the art facility in Kenya to treat Americans infected by the deadly virus in Africa, offering them life saving care as quickly as possible. The CDC also taking steps to stop the spread, making an urgent call to its staff. Volunteers are needed at major US Airports to screen travelers. Washington Dulles, Atlanta's Hartsfield, Jackson, George Bush Airport in Houston, and now New York's JFK will accept US Citizens traveling from the Democratic Republic of Congo, South Sudan and Uganda.
- [04:59]
Chelsea Clinton
So, Laura, how do you react to that? Both the underlying news as well as the Trump administration's current posture?
- [05:09]
Laurel Bristow
The entire situation is pretty upsetting. I mean, we are largely in the situation in the first place because of the dismantling of usaid, which you know, is a humanitarian organization, but it's also kind of a source of soft power. Having people on the ground means that we are aware of these situations before they get to this point. And so I think it's really unfortunate and a good example of a missed opportunity to do good health surveillance, that the Ebola outbreak is as big as it is, as quickly as it is at this point. I do think, you know, it's true that we do not. There is a low risk of Ebola coming back to the United States simply because of the way the virus spreads and, you know, when there are proper screening processes in place. But this idea that we will not let any potential cases in, that includes people who would go and respond to the Ebola outbreak and help. And so really that puts us at greater risk of this becoming a bigger outbreak. Because if American doctors or nurses or, you know, first responders who maybe normally would have gone and volunteered and helped there to get it under control, to increase manpower, to increase expertise, are people really going to want to do that if then they have to stay in Kenya or another country for 21 days after they're done before they can come home, which is the rule. Right. Like anyone who is a high risk. So people who work there would have to quarantine outside the US for 21 days before they'd be allowed back. Are you going to go if you potentially risk getting sick, which has happened to healthcare providers who have gone before, and instead of being medevaced to the United States, where we have the absolute best facilities, we have an entire network dedicated to people who have been trained to care for Ebola, you know, facilities that have spent millions upon millions of dollars building to contain this, to give you the best possible care. Are you going to want to risk getting sick if you have to be in a pop up tent somewhere in Kenya, a facility that's not even complete yet, that we don't know what kind of standards it's going to have? You know, they say it's going to be state of the art, but how are you building a state of the art system this quickly? So I just think that these policies really stand to make the world less safe. We know that diseases don't care about borders. And I think it's really an indictment of how we are turning our back on our global neighbors when we have an obligation to help them.
- [07:31]
Chelsea Clinton
Before we talk more about our response, I wonder though, if you can help us take a step back. And for people who may not know much about Ebola, what it is, how it spreads, what you've encountered as some of the biggest misconceptions are around it, what do we all need to know?
- [07:48]
Laurel Bristow
Yeah, so I think One of the most important things to know about Ebola is that it is often referred to as a disease of compassion. And that is because the way that it is predominantly spread is through close contact with infected bodily fluids, secretions. And so the people who get infected are the people who are caring for someone who is sick. And so the virus tends to spread throughout families or close knit communities because you have, you know, say you're a mother and your child gets sick and you are the only one who is caring for them. And then because you come into contact, you're now sick and now maybe your sister is caring for you. So it spreads through families. It disproportionately affects women because women tend to be the caregivers. And I think it's just really important for people to remember that Ebola is not airborne. It is not spread by, you know, respiratory droplets in the way that something like the COVID is spread. So it is really something that requires close contact. And the reason that it happens to spread, you know, in a place like the eastern Democratic Republic of the Congo, which is where the outbreak is epicentered right now, is because we have a lot of displaced people. There's a lot of poverty there, there's a lot of conflict. And so there aren't the resources to put people into isolation if they're suspected of being exposed to Ebola, and there aren't the resources to test, to identify it. So an Ebola case in the United States would get identified fairly quickly and the risk of it spreading to other people would be low. It has happened before. Once there was one case that was missed due to under education, and there were two healthcare workers that got infected as a result. But I think, you know, the chance of Ebola having a widespread impact somewhere like the United States is extremely low. It's much higher in these countries that, you know, are low resource.
- [09:34]
Chelsea Clinton
Well, and I think it's important to point out the heroic effort by health workers in the DRC in Uganda. And as you pointed out, and as I'm familiar with, given how closely involved the Clinton Health Access Initiative was with the major Ebola outbreak in West Africa a dozen years ago. Now, community healthcare workers, nurses, doctors are too often the unsung heroes, especially given that they know they don't have adequate protective equipment. They know that they don't have all of the resources that you alluded to that we do have here in the United States. And they're still doing everything that they can to help save and protect lives and communities, which makes it all the More painful that we kind of retrenched away from usaid, which had provisions like, including PPE, for places and spaces that were more vulnerable to highly infectious pathogens, including, but not only Ebola. You've referenced a few times the kind of facilities that we have here. I mean, you work at Emory University in Atlanta, where the United States has a high containment facility and isolation unit. For anyone listening, like, what does that mean in practice? How would a facility like that and the experts who work in that facility or the others around the country ensure that anyone who might have been exposed was being, of course, carefully watched and also cared for in case they did develop Ebola?
- [11:03]
Laurel Bristow
Yeah, so at Emory, in the hospital system, we have these very specialized containment units that have, you know, decontamination chambers, anterior chambers, negative pressure rooms, you know, advanced HEPA filters, everything you need to make sure that a pathogen doesn't spread, while also being able to get access to some of the best healthcare around. We have a program actually, here at Emory that's run by two colleagues of mine who I really respect, Anish Mehta and Colleen Craft, and it's called the National Emerging Special Pathogens Training and Education Center. And it's a network of hospitals throughout the country that do routine trainings and simulations on how to respond if, you know, you get somebody with a special pathogen like Ebola. So we know that we have people who are specifically prepared to care for Ebola patients. They've done it before. You know, Atlanta had Ebola patients during the West African outbreak, people who were repatriated here and cared for here. And so I just think it is a real shame to not put this expertise to use, because we are very, very prepared to handle bringing cases home in Americans who might get sick.
- [12:10]
Chelsea Clinton
You know, I don't want to leave the impression that the Trump administration has done nothing. I mean, the Trump administration, through the CDC, recently made available more than $100 million in emergency funding for strengthening the Ebola response in the most affected countries. How do you think that money should be spent to help protect people today and protect people in the future?
- [12:35]
Laurel Bristow
Yeah, I mean, I think utilizing the resources that we have here is really important. I think providing PPE and testing to the affected areas is really important. We have sent there are starting a clinical trial of a monoclonal antibody that was developed in San Diego that barda, I can't remember what that acronym is for one of one of the government organizations, you know, owns the doses and has helped with the development of that, and they are sending doses over there to try to get a treatment. This particular strain of Ebola has no approved treatment and also has no approved vaccine. The Ebola vaccine that we have is for the Zaire, what was formerly called the Zaire strain. And we just don't. We don't have anything to combat this, really, except for supportive care and isolation. So I think we need to be putting most money into prevention, which means isolation and contact tracing of cases to try to identify people before they get sick or to keep people in a safe space to see if they develop symptoms. But I think, you know, we are putting money towards it. It's a fraction of the money that we have put towards previous outbreaks. And it's happening, really in response to the funds that we've taken away initially. So I am glad that we're not completely sitting on our hands, but there's absolutely more that we could and should be doing.
- [13:54]
Chelsea Clinton
So, Laurel, what more do you think we should be doing? For anyone listening who may want to advocate to their congressperson or directly to the White House or publicly to try to attract attention from either of those branches of government, what more do you think the United States should be doing? And what should we be, as the American public pushing for? To help save any lives that we can, and also to protect American lives?
- [14:20]
Laurel Bristow
I think that we should be pushing for the reinstatement of usaid. I think that the program needs to be refunded and restarted. And we need to have people stationed in these countries who are, you know, not only there to identify the gaps in care and the ways that we can improve the health systems in these areas, but are also paying attention to what's going on, paying attention to unrest, paying attention to suspicious disease outbreaks so that we can provide support. Before it gets to this point, there are some really big issues to overcome in these countries, but we have to remember that a lot of the instability is the result of Western influence and Western interests mining for things for our cell phones and that sort of thing. So I think it's really important that we recognize when people want to say, well, why should we get involved? It's like a lot of the instability is caused by things that we as a country are doing. And so I do think it is our duty to try to help as much as possible when it comes to kind of these inequalities that have been created foreign.
- [15:28]
Julie Louis-Dreyfus
Hey, it's Julie, Louis Dreyfus from wiser than me, etc. Just popping in with a little reality check. Food waste shouldn't exist. There is no reason that our Leftovers should end up in a landfill. But that's the final destination for about a third of the food we grow. Our ancestors would be confused. They use their food scraps as compost or as animal feed, or in weird soups, all the stuff we did before garbage was invented. But composting is hard work. Living with a bucket of rotten food on your counter is gross. Most food goes in the trash because it's easy. And these days, we'll take any easy we can get. But now there's something easier. Drop your scraps in a mill food recycler. It looks like a kitchen bin and an iPhone had a baby. It takes nearly anything, even meat and bones. It works automatically. You can keep filling it for weeks and it never smells. When you finally empty it, you've got these nutrient rich grounds. Use them in your garden, pour them in your green bin, or have Mill get them to a small farm so the food you don't eat can help grow the food you do. Just like it should be. It's why I own a mill, why I invest in mill, and why I'm still obsessed with my mill. If you want to get obsessed too, go to mill.comwiser to get $75 off. That's mill.comwiser for $75 off.
- [17:05]
Chelsea Clinton
We are in our family, highly aware that it's also tick season, in addition to being a lot of good things that come with summertime. And my children might be very annoyed that I make them do very thorough tic checks every night. But as I remind them, safety has to come first. And I would rather them be annoyed at me and safe than not annoyed at me and maybe vulnerable. So I wonder just what you want people to know about kind of this record high tick season that we're having. Yes, here in the northeast where I am talking to you from, but also in parts of the country where we don't normally see these high levels of kind of tick borne illnesses. And what you want people to know not only about Lyme disease, but also Alpha Gal syndrome and others.
- [18:00]
Laurel Bristow
Yeah, the tick season is particularly bad this year. I think. You know, a lot of it has to do, unfortunately, with climate change that, you know, the temperatures and the areas in which ticks can breed and grow is expanding, the length of time that they can live is expanding. And so we're seeing a lot more ticks. So it's important to do all of the stuff that you've kind of been taught before. You know, going on hikes, keeping your skin covered, tucking your pants into your socks in the very fashionable way that we used to do as children on, you know, our nature outings, using kind of treated clothing and insecticides to protect yourself and doing tick scans. When you get home from being outside. You can also take your clothes off and throw them in the dryer, tumble them for 10 minutes to try to kill any ticks that may have grasped on. You know, ticks can't jump, but they do what's called questing, which is they stand on the edge of like a blade of grass or something and reach up and wait for something to pass by and then they grab on. So that's how they get on you. So it is really important to check those. Check yourself and others for ticks, especially your pets as well. I think Lyme disease gets a ton of attention because it is huge. There's so many people who get Lyme disease every year. It can make you very sick and it can be treated with antibiotics, but sometimes people have post treatment sequelae that happens after Lyme disease that can persist for a while and it's very understudied. So it's definitely not something that you want to deal with. But for me, living in the south with the Lone Star ticks, Alpha Gal is a bigger concern. It's something that has kind of roared into consciousness in the last decade or so, but it is a tick borne disease that causes you to be permanently allergic to mammalian meat, red meat, for the rest of your life. So no more hot dogs, no more hamburgers, or no more beef dogs at least. And so it's something that is increasing in awareness. There's a lot more people who are suddenly very allergic to red meat. If you develop a red meat allergy out of nowhere, if you start getting sick after you have eaten red meat, you could have been bitten by a tick and not even known that you now have this disease for which there currently is no cure. And we actually unfortunately just had the first death related to Alpha Gal. Someone who got anaphylaxis so bad after eating red meat when they were not aware that they had this allergy that they actually died, which is very scary. So I think, unfortunately, tick season is something that everyone needs to be very serious about. When you're spending time outdoors and make sure that you are checking yourself. Lyme disease takes about 24 to 48 hours to transmit when a tick is on you. So if you do get bit by a tick or you find a tick on you, don't bother waiting to go to urgent care to get it taken off. Take the tick off as soon as possible. And where do you.
- [20:46]
Chelsea Clinton
Where do we stand with a vaccine for Lyme disease?
- [20:48]
Laurel Bristow
Yeah, that's a great question. So there is a vaccine that was submitted to the FDA that made waves recently in information because it didn't meet its primary goal, which was basically a reduction. It didn't meet the statistical significance or the number of cases it needed to determine if it was statistically sound in preventing Lyme disease over a certain period of time. It's a lot of complicated stuff, but basically the vaccine clinical trial was three doses over a period of, I believe a year, and then a booster dose a year later. And then they were looking at after that booster dose how well it prevented Lyme disease. They didn't get as many cases as they thought they were going to get. So they couldn't get as strong statistical significance as they wanted. But when they looked at the secondary kind of goal, which was to see how many cases of Lyme disease were reduced after just the primary three doses, they hit that goal. It's about 75% efficacy for that. So it'll be interesting to see if the FDA does approve that or not. Because you know, there is a huge interest in the population right now and I'm sure people would be very happy to be able to get a Lyme disease vaccine. But I would like to see more data from the clinical trial and from the study before I make any kind of designation about how I personally feel about its usefulness or its worth.
- [22:09]
Chelsea Clinton
But with the rise of tics, as you said, there are more of them and they are living longer. Unfortunately, there's also been a real uptick in tick conspiracies online. So I wonder what you want to either flesh out or debunk.
- [22:27]
Laurel Bristow
Yeah, I mean, I would just like to remind people that the vaccine for Lyme disease has not been approved. There is no available Lyme disease vaccine. I think a lot of the tick borne conspiracy theories that are out there are kind of based around this idea that there's going to be manufactured disease so that people will get this vaccine, but there is no vaccine. So the kind of, most prevalent kind of conspiracy theory that I have seen is about boxes of ticks being dropped in farmers fields in Missouri. You know, a farmer's field would not be the best place to drop boxes of ticks if you were trying to infect a bunch of people. Because I don't know about you, but I don't go wandering through farmers pastures.
- [23:10]
Chelsea Clinton
Never occur to me.
- [23:11]
Laurel Bristow
Yeah, if you're trying to infect humans. That. That doesn't really make a lot of sense. Other conspiracies, you know, that are unfortunately very popular, is that Lyme is a bioweapon that was invented in a lab. That also doesn't make a lot of sense because, you know, it's not lethal. It just is kind of very upsetting and inconvenient. It can currently be treated by antibiotics, and like I said, a percentage of people, you know, have longer complications. But that's a highly ineffective bioweapon. I know that conspiracy theories are largely appealing because people want someone to blame for the things that kind of just happen due to larger problems that feel like they're beyond our control, such as climate change or things that happen just because of our impact on the natural environment.
- [23:59]
Chelsea Clinton
Laurel, before we talk about queer contributions to public health, which I definitely want to make sure that we do, because we are talking during Pride Month here in June. What are some other public health either deep concerns or issues that might be percolating and haven't kind of tipped into deep concern territory yet that you're paying maybe extra attention to these days?
- [24:23]
Laurel Bristow
Yeah, there's probably a few things. I mean, one is New World screwworm, which, if you are not aware of that, please allow me to get ahead of it, because upon first listen, it is something that it can be very panic inducing for a lot of people. So basically there's a fly called the New World screwworm. And it's called that because the larva of the fly, like all flies, are laid in, in flesh, typically mammalian flesh. And then when they hatch, they screw down into the flesh and eat it. And unlike other flies that lay their eggs in dead animals, this fly lays its eggs in living animals. So it had been a problem in the United States. We had eradicated it in 1966, I believe, by doing sterile fly releases, which is where we radiate male flies, the males of the species, and release them. They mate with females. The females lay eggs that will never hatch, and the population dies out. And so. And it worked. And then it moved all the screwworm New World screw and flies south. And there was basically a sterile fly factory in Panama that created what's called a biological barrier there. So that the flies were kind of kept south of Panama for the last 40 years or so. Unfortunately, we're not really sure what happened, but that's. That biological barrier was breached. And for the last couple years, the flies have been moving steadily north. And this is a problem because they tend to really affect cattle. And so when you have them laying their eggs in cattle, then that impacts the beef and the dairy industry. Right? So that's like, obviously a huge concern, particularly for ranchers in places like Texas that are on the border. We have now unfortunately seen cases of new world screwworm in cattle in Texas, and I believe in a dog in New Mexico. So there is very much a huge concern that this could impact the beef industry. You know, it's a huge industry for the United States. Impacts our food supply, not because it makes the food unsafe like there. There's not really a risk that new world screwworm flies are going to get into steaks that you would get at the grocery store, but more because these animals, you know, need to be treated. They can, they can kill a full grown cow in like a week if they're left alone. It's pretty disgusting. So what's happening right now? When we became aware of it, we started working to restart the sterile fly factories that we have in Mexico and in the United States so that we could restart that process of trying to push them further south. Unfortunately, those factories are not up and running yet. And so surveillance is going to be really important for that. The factories need to produce about 500 million flies a week. So it's going to take a while, not only to create the factories, but to get them up to production. So in the meantime, you know, there are treatments that are available that cattle ranchers are aware of. Surveillance is going to be really important. And for the common person, you don't really need to worry about them laying their eggs in people because, you know, they are attracted to open wounds, basically. So in animals that can't communicate, they have a cut, they have a scratch, they have a tick bite, unfortunately, and the fly lays their eggs in that. In humans, you would notice it a lot faster. For people who live on the border who have pets that they're worried about, you should, you know, make sure you're checking your pet for signs of distress, of discomfort, if they have open wounds or anything. Then make sure that if you see any kind of signs that you think might be an infestation, take them to the vet immediately. Vets are going to be kind of our first line for identifying where these outbreaks happen or if screwworm has spread to other areas. But for people, you don't particularly need to be worried about yourself. The risk in humans is low, but it could really impact our kind of livestock and animal populations if it continues to spread.
- [28:28]
Chelsea Clinton
Before we move on to our fact or fiction segment, I do want to talk about queer contributions to public health. And know this is something that you've importantly highlighted. And know you created a great video recently celebrating queer contributions that we will put a link to in our show notes. And I thought we should start with Dr. Josephine Baker, because I think it's a good segue from everything we were just talking about.
- [28:53]
Laurel Bristow
Yeah, I mean, Dr. Joe was a doctor in New York City at a time when women still were not really allowed to be hospitalists. So she took a job with the kind of city's Department of Public Health, and she really pioneered a lot of child safety measures or training. So she did things, you know, like training about child hygiene, starting a certification program for midwives to improve birthing hygiene to improve the outcomes of children in the city. And she. She did a huge amount to bring the child mortality rate down. And she openly lived with her partner, who was a. Who was a writer. And they were kind of a rare example of a queer couple that was out and proud while also making really essential contributions to public health, which are
- [29:45]
Chelsea Clinton
important everywhere, but especially important, I think, in places like New York City, which in the early 1900s was one of the most densely populated places on earth.
- [29:52]
Laurel Bristow
Yeah.
- [29:53]
Chelsea Clinton
Who else should we talk about? Who else do you want to highlight?
- [29:56]
Laurel Bristow
Well, Allen L. Hart was kind of one of the first, I guess you could say, semi openly transgender doctors. He was living his life after transit, transitioned kind of after medical school, and often got outed by people who he knew from, you know, his previous lifetime who recognized him and kind of outed him as having not been born a man. And so he had to move around a lot because of discrimination, but still was very open with the fact that he was not at all ashamed of who he was, that he was the happiest that he had ever been. And he was responsible for using X rays to pioneer identifying active tuberculosis cases before they were so sick that they were at risk of spreading it to other people. And so probably saved, you know, thousands of lives by being able to start antibiotic treatment before somebody was super sick, which was when it would be the most effective. And also being able to isolate people who had active TB who were not yet identified because they were coughing up blood, which prevented transmission to a lot of other people. And so the episode of health wanted that we did for pride, that talked about kind of them and other, you know, queer contributions to science and how the queer community stands up for themselves, was really important to me to highlight not only that these are people who are facing huge struggles in their lives while also continuing to help the Greater good, but also what we stand to lose. You know, there are probably so many people who could have made incredible contributions. Contributions who were too busy fighting for survival or worrying about their safety to be able to focus on these kind of great things that we all benefit from.
- [31:42]
Chelsea Clinton
I certainly agree. So we end each episode with a fact or fiction segment where I'm going to throw out some claims. Yes. And you're going to tell us whether they're fact, fiction, or maybe nuance. We're going to start with tics because we talked a fair bit about them, and then we're going to talk about some of the things.
- [31:57]
Laurel Bristow
Great.
- [31:58]
Chelsea Clinton
All right. You should always take a tick off with tweezers.
- [32:03]
Laurel Bristow
Yeah, that is a good practice. It's important also to pull straight up instead of twisting because you don't want any of the mouth pieces to come off to be left in the skin because they really burrow their little heads in there.
- [32:14]
Chelsea Clinton
Oh, petroleum jelly, nail polish, heat help in taking ticks off. Fact or fiction?
- [32:21]
Laurel Bristow
No, you should really just use tweezers to pull them off. And then once you get the tick off, you can put it in, you know, a little. A container with a little bit of rubbing alcohol so that you can bring it to your doctor if you want to see if it could be identified as the kind of tick that carries Lyme disease or Alpha gal or something like that.
- [32:36]
Chelsea Clinton
There have been at least four outbreaks of norovirus on cruise ships this year.
- [32:41]
Laurel Bristow
At least. Definitely. Yeah, I know that one's for certain. And one of them, I think, included over 160 or 200 people, so.
- [32:49]
Chelsea Clinton
Yikes. Norovirus on cruise ships has its own section on the CDC website. Factor fiction.
- [32:55]
Laurel Bristow
Yep. On the vessel sanitation program. Norovirus gets its own special little shout out, out.
- [33:00]
Chelsea Clinton
Laurel, do you ever go on a cruise?
- [33:02]
Laurel Bristow
Absolutely not. I would never go on a cruise.
- [33:05]
Chelsea Clinton
They are such wonderful experiences for so many people. And I also think that that's probably not in our future.
- [33:11]
Laurel Bristow
Yeah. I'm happy if you love them, but maybe good for you. Not for me.
- [33:17]
Chelsea Clinton
According to a new retrospective paper from jama, one in six people who got Covid developed. Long Covid. Does that strike you as fact, or do you think it's too high or too low flow?
- [33:28]
Laurel Bristow
There's a lot of nuance to that paper that I've gone over on my show, but I would say the summary is long Covid is a very real problem that disrupts a lot of people's lives that is not getting enough attention. And also estimating the true Prevalence of Long Covid is very, very difficult because it's understudied and doesn't get enough attention. But I think one in six is an exceptionally high number. And I have some issues with the methodology by which they came to that conclusion.
- [34:00]
Chelsea Clinton
We should not be worried about hantavirus any longer. Fact or fiction?
- [34:04]
Laurel Bristow
That's pretty much fact. I mean, hantavirus could come in the future. And other hantaviruses that already exist in the United States, that people get from coming into contact with infected rodent droppings, you know, those are all still things to be aware of. But the particular outbreak that originated on the MV Hondius, we are now past the six week mark of people who were repatriated on May 10th. So the likelihood that any of them will go on to develop hantavirus at this point is extremely low. And everybody who left that cruise on April 24th who was not, you know, put into a mandatory isolation, government facilities in the United States, they're beyond the eight week mark. And so they're all free and clear. So the likelihood that there's going to be any more cases of hantavirus originating from that ship, exceedingly low at this point.
- [34:48]
Chelsea Clinton
Laurel, I think that's a great note to end on. Thank you so much for the wide ranging conversation. We covered a lot of material.
- [34:54]
Laurel Bristow
Yeah.
- [34:54]
Chelsea Clinton
And I'm really thankful for all that you're doing. I mean, here with us, but even more so beyond this conversation to help keep us well informed, well educated, and hopefully empowered over our individual family and communal health. So thank you so much.
- [35:09]
Laurel Bristow
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me.
- [35:11]
Chelsea Clinton
Thank you. You can follow Laurel Bristowe oralbristowe on Instagram and check out her podcast and YouTube channel@healthwanted.org Thanks for listening. Talk to you next week. That Can't Be True is a production of Limonada Media and the Clinton Foundation. The show is produced by Katherine Barnes, mix and sound design by Johnny Vince Evans. Kristin Lepore is senior Director of New Content, and Jackie Danziger is VP of Narrative and production. Maggie Kralshore is our Managing Director of Partnerships. Executive producers are Jessica Cordova Cranberry, Stephanie Whittles Wax, and me, Chelsea Clinton. Special thanks to Erika Goodmanson, Sara Horowitz, Francesca Ernst Kahn, Caroline Lewis, Sage Falter, Barry Lurie Westerberg, Emily Young and the entire team at the Clinton Foundation. You can help others find our show by leaving us a rating and writing a review. And if you can think of someone who might benefit from today's episode, please go ahead and share it with them. There's more of that can't be true with Lemon. Not a Premium subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content when you subscribe on Apple Podcasts. You can also listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership.