Episode 427: Louie Giglio on Fighting Against Worry and Creating Positive Habits to Draw Closer to Jesus

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: That Sounds Fun with Annie F. Downs
Episode: 427 - Louie Giglio on Fighting Against Worry and Creating Positive Habits to Draw Closer to Jesus
Release Date: November 17, 2022
Host: Annie F. Downs
Guest: Louie Giglio (Pastor of Passion City Church, Author, Speaker)

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Main Theme & Purpose

This engaging conversation focuses on faith practices for drawing closer to Jesus, specifically through Louie Giglio’s latest books—Winning the War on Worry and At the Table with Jesus. The episode explores how to combat worry and build positive spiritual habits, especially as listeners head into the Thanksgiving and Advent season. Louie and Annie share personal stories about lifelong friendships in ministry, the challenges facing new generations, and practical, hopeful wisdom for deepening one’s walk with Christ.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Lifelong Ministry Friendships & Influences

• Louie’s History with Andy Stanley
  • Grew up attending the same church and became best friends as teens ([05:32]).
  • Witnessed the split and rebuilding of First Baptist Church Atlanta under Charles Stanley, Andy’s father ([08:54]).
  • “We were crazy knuckleheads in high school, and it’s a miracle that God is using either one of us, really.” – Louie Giglio ([07:27])
  • The importance of long-term faith-based friendships as a spiritual anchor across generations ([07:07]).

Jesus as “The Thing”: Centrality of Christ

• Reading 1 Corinthians 1:24 and reflecting on Jesus as “God’s ultimate miracle and wisdom all wrapped up in one” ([11:40]).
  • “Jesus isn’t just a thing, but he is the thing. And this is the difference. I think for a lot of even people in church, Jesus is a thing. … But I think there’s a difference between loving Jesus as a thing and loving him as the thing.” – Louie Giglio ([12:35])
  • Jesus as God’s wisdom, the Word made flesh, and the central figure of all scripture ([11:53], [13:39]).

Engaging the Next Generation Without Judgment

• Discussed how Christians often misapply their standards to non-believers—“the cross is foolishness to those who don’t believe” ([13:39]).
  • Instead of critique, offer an alternative: show Jesus’ satisfaction and sufficiency.
  • “All these kids on TikTok, they learned most of their foolishness from us.” – Louie Giglio ([15:04])
• Emphasizes modeling humility and invitation, not condemnation ([17:28]).

The Power & Pitfalls of Digital Culture and Distraction

• Both Annie and Louie candidly share their struggles with digital distractions (Instagram, TikTok) and the need for self-control ([15:57]).
  • “People are tick-tocking their life away. Tick Tock, Tick Tock … all of a sudden an opportunity’s gone, a day is gone, a chance to walk with God is gone.” – Louie Giglio ([15:57])
• Louie notes that emerging generations are “amazing” with great potential, but church leaders need to invest in them ([17:57]).

Gathering, Community, and the Passion Movement

• Update on Passion Conference 2023: venues are smaller this year (Atlanta and Fort Worth), so spots are limited but meaningful ([19:07]).
  • “If you really want to be in one of those spaces, you ask God, and I promise you, he will make a way and open a door.” – Louie Giglio ([19:46])
• Highlight of emerging voices, e.g., Jonathan Pokluda, as examples of humility and service ([24:17]).

Forming Positive Habits: 66 Days with Jesus

• Origins of the At the Table with Jesus devotional ([27:51]):
  • Inspired by Dr. Caroline Leaf—new habits require at least 66 days, forming new “neural pathways” ([28:44]).
  • “If you consistently for 66 days think a positive thought, then you also can create a roadway in your brain.” – Louie Giglio ([28:44])
  • Focus of the devotional: structured daily habit formation centered on Christ (“Christology”), not just inspiration ([29:50]).
  • Suggests tangible practices, like putting sticky notes up daily to reinforce learning ([30:20]).

Why Focus on Jesus First?

• Addresses why it’s important to start with Jesus in personal study—even if starting in the middle of the Bible ([32:34]).
  • “The whole story is about Jesus from beginning to end, and so it doesn’t matter where you start, it’s still going to be about Jesus.” – Louie Giglio ([33:10])
  • The value of seeing Jesus as the clearest expression of God ([33:10]).

Prayer as Surrender and Alignment

• Recent teaching series called “Shift”—prayer is about exchanging wills, not getting God on our page ([34:49]).
  • “When I pray, I am saying to God: I want to be on your page.” ([35:22])
  • Living daily surrendered to God’s guidance and agenda, inspired by the life of Jesus.

Can We Ever Exhaust Knowing Jesus?

• Ongoing relationship is the point—new things are always discovered ([36:58]).
  • “You can’t get to the bottom of Jesus. Every book I read, I learn something new.” – Annie F. Downs ([36:58])
  • Jesus as an infinite source of love, joy, and discovery ([37:20]).

Navigating Culture and Anxiety with Jesus

• Jesus “operates above the culture,” offering peace and perspective even amidst world turmoil ([39:22]).
  • “When you are walking with the King of Kings … it lifts you up to be above it, not to be disconnected from it.” – Louie Giglio ([40:12])
• The cross as hope and wisdom for the anxious, not just the wise or powerful ([45:34]).

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Book Spotlight: Winning the War on Worry

• A small, practical handbook designed to help readers fight anxiety ([46:32]).
• Rooted in Louie’s own family history of worry and a desire to break generational patterns ([48:46]).
  • “We start the book with this pretty radical idea that worry is a choice.” ([49:30])
  • Practical steps for replacing worry with trust, reminding listeners of their new identity in Christ.
  • Observations on why anxiety is so rampant today—digitally fueled anxiety, constant news, information overload ([50:17]).
  • Biblical language for anxiety: “to tear apart”—modern culture breeds fragmentation, so we must “come back to the table with Jesus, who isn’t coming apart at the seams” ([52:14]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Jesus isn’t just a thing, but he is the thing. ... At the end of the day, it’s just Jesus. It always was, it is, and it always will be."
  – Louie Giglio ([12:35])

• “All these kids on TikTok, they learned most of their foolishness from us.”
  – Louie Giglio ([15:04])

• "People are tick-tocking their life away. Tick Tock, Tick Tock ... all of a sudden an opportunity’s gone, a day is gone, a chance to walk with God is gone."
  – Louie Giglio ([15:57])

• “If you consistently for 66 days think a positive thought, then you also can create a roadway in your brain.”
  – Louie Giglio ([28:44])

• “Prayer is really about me hearing from God so that I can get on God’s page.”
  – Louie Giglio ([35:13])

• “Humility is the byproduct of being with Jesus, and no one is with Jesus and is proud.”
  – Louie Giglio ([56:21])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:27]—Louie’s story of reconnecting with Andy Stanley in London.
• [08:54]—Recalling the dramatic church split and lessons learned about ministry: “Obey God and leave the results to him.”
• [12:35]—What it means for Jesus to be the central focus.
• [13:39]—How to model faith for non-believers without judgment.
• [15:57]—The dangers of distraction, especially TikTok and reels.
• [17:57]—The need to invest in the next generation.
• [27:51]—How At the Table with Jesus was inspired and structured.
• [28:44]—Scientific insight into habit formation (66 days).
• [32:34]—Why start your study with Jesus.
• [34:49]—Prayer as exchanging wills—not my will, but yours.
• [40:12]—Faith perspective when facing cultural chaos.
• [46:32]—Louie on writing Winning the War on Worry.
• [50:17]—Digital culture’s role in fueling modern anxiety.
• [52:45]—Louie’s favorite thing about Jesus: compassion.
• [56:21]—How true humility grows naturally from real time with Jesus.

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Final Takeaways

• Habits for Spiritual Growth: Start small but consistent—66 days focused on Jesus can transform your mental and spiritual life.
• Combatting Worry: Worry is learned—so it can be unlearned, especially when you remember your new identity as God’s child.
• Humility & Compassion: True humility flows from nearness to Christ—not self-effort—and His compassion is a continual invitation to return.
• Practical Invitation: However you start, focus on Jesus. Even a daily simple step—like writing what you learned on a sticky note—can change your heart and mind over time.
• Live Above the Fray: By focusing on Jesus, you gain the perspective to face anxiety, worry, and cultural turbulence with hope and peace.

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Closing Thoughts & What Sounds Fun

• Louie’s “what sounds fun”: Walking in the plaza in Florence, visiting the Duomo and seeing local art, followed by pasta ([60:06]).
• Annie closes with encouragement to put up Christmas decorations—and to immerse oneself in Advent and daily devotionals for hope and joy.

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For more information:

• Winning the War on Worry and At the Table with Jesus are available wherever books are sold.
• Passion 2023 details available via Passion City Church.
• Annie’s Advent devotional series at anniefdowns.com/advent.

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Endnote:
This episode offers a warm, compassionate, and practical look at spiritual growth, the importance of authentic faith friendships, the challenges of worry and digital distraction—and, above all, the never-ending wonder of knowing Jesus.

Transcript

[A]

Yes. Yes. Come on. Hi friends. Welcome to another episode of that Sounds Fun. I'm your host, Annie F. Downs. I'm really happy to be here with you today and we have got a great show in store. But before we dive into today's conversation, I want to let you know that this episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. And it would be so nice if life had a turn by turn directions app that could just tell us which direction to go when we're feeling a little lost or stuck emotionally. But that is just not the way it typically works, right? It's normal to feel stuck when things are overwhelming. Navigating any of life's challenges can make you feel unsure, whether it's changing careers or figuring out relationships or processing loss. Therapists are trained to help you figure out the cause of challenging emotions and learn helpful coping skills, which makes therapy pretty close to that life gps we'd love to have sometimes, right? Well, my therapist has been a huge help to me in the times I've faced emotions or choices that I just didn't know what to do with. I think a therapist could help you in the same way. As the world's largest therapy service, BetterHelp has matched 3 million people with professionally licensed and vetted therapists available 100% online. Plus it is affordable. Just fill out a brief questionnaire. Y' all know we love a quiz and that is how you match with a therapist. If things aren't clicking, you can easily switch to a new therapist anytime. It could not be simpler. No waiting rooms, no traffic, no endless searching for the right therapist. Learn more and save 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com thatsoundsfun that's betterhelp. H E-L-P.com thatsoundsfun and if you didn't catch that whole URL, that's okay. Do not fret. We have got you. Always, always, always. All the links to our sponsors, the transcript of the show and our weekly email newsletter the AFD Week in Review. The sign up for that. All those links are conveniently available in the show notes. Today on the show I get to talk with my friend and one of my favorite pastors, Louie Giglio. If he sounds familiar, it's because he's been on the show before. He was on episode 142 and on episode 306. Be sure to go back and check those out. You will see the links as well in the show notes. He's the pastor of Passion City Church in Atlanta, the visionary behind the Passion movement and an amazing author. In fact, he has had two books come out this year. We talk about both of them. Louie's out here helping us conquer the negative thoughts and feelings we deal with in his book Winning the War on Worry and his new devotional at the Table with Jesus. He's here today to help us walk towards our Thanksgiving celebrations next week with grace and gratitude. And I am so thankful for his voice to guide us. So here's my conversation with Louie Giglio. Louie Giglio, welcome back to that. Sounds fun. What a joy to have you back.

[B]

I was. I got happy the moment I knew I was gonna be on. Something about it just brings me joy.

[A]

Ah, thank you. I feel the same way. This morning when I was thinking about it, I thought, annie, just don't cry. Just please could you not cry when you're talking to Louie? So I don't know how it's gonna go. I wanna tell you. Earlier this month, for the first time, we had Andy Stanley on the show.

[B]

Oh, my word. Come on.

[A]

Right? Will you talk a little bit? I don't know how much of our friends outside of Atlanta or outside of Yalls, you know, Sphere, know Yalls history. And I think it is so interesting when people have been in ministry because they've done life together so long. Will you talk a little bit about y'?

[B]

All? Yeah. Let me tell a really quick story and then I'll back up. We, Shelly and I were in London in the summer, and we were there with another couple on our team, and we had a busy weekend. But I'd found out at a wedding a few weeks before from another friend that Andy was going to be in London. So I texted him and said, hey, I heard you're going to London this week. And he said, no, I'm actually going next week. And I'm like, wow, that's when we're gonna. We're gonna be in London for the weekend. He goes, we, I have a thing on Tuesday outside the city somewhere. Sandra and I will be in London Friday, this Monday. We have no plans. I said, great, we'll connect. Well, we get there and our schedule is all over the map and we're. Plans are changing. Da, da da, da, da. And so now it's the weekend's over and we've not seen Andy and Sandra and I feel terrible. And I'm trying to figure out, how do I formulate that text? You know, the one that's like, hey, we were in the same city for a weekend. We didn't get together. Text, Brad is over here. Hustling to get us on a train to Oxford. And we've got a couple hours to kill. Then we got a meeting about an hour away. So he's working on train schedules, and finally he lands on the 1. We jump in the cab, we hustle off to the train station. We get on the train as it's pulling out of the station, literally, we're walking up the aisle of all the. The cars. And on these trains, it's a four seats on one side around a table and two on the other side with the table in the middle. We finally get to our, you know, our car. We think we're walking up the aisle, look up, and there's Andy and Sandra Stanley sitting by the window.

[A]

Oh, my.

[B]

And I'm like, no way. You're on the same train we're on. And they're like, where? Where are you? Where are your seats? We're like, I don't know. And so finally Brad catches up and goes, hey, those are your seats right there. Brad had booked us at the four top table with Andy and Sandra on the train to Oxford. And they said, yeah, we're going wherever, but we got two hours to kill in Oxford. So we had the most amazing two hours together on the train. We did Addison's Walk, where JRR Tolkien and CS Lewis used to walk at Magdalene College. And it was just like, the Lord made it all. How? What are the odds? What are the odds?

[A]

I mean, that had to feel like such a moment for the two of y' all to do that walk that those two friends did.

[B]

Well, that was really cool. I mean, I, Shelly and Sandra were walking behind us, taking pictures, and, you know, it kind of felt a little bit nostalgic in a way. I was in middle school at First Baptist Church, Atlanta, Georgia. That's the church I was born into back in the day. You were born on Thursday, you went to the nursery on Sunday. And that's how life worked in the old days. And about middle school, a guy came to be the associate pastor at our church. Charles Stone Stanley. This man was preaching fire. He was preaching the word of God. It was shaking things up. Church was giant. 3000 people every Sunday packed out, but not really rocking for the Lord necessarily. And everybody was happy and comfortable. 19, you know, I don't know, whatever year that was, 60 something, maybe early 70s. And the church started rumbling because of this, this Bible preaching man. And eventually the church kind of blew apart, split up. It was very, very tragic. And that pastor's kids, he ended up becoming the pastor of the church, miraculously, really. And his kids were Andy and Becky. Stanley and Andy and I are the same age. And from that moment on, like, I don't know, 13 years old, 14 years old. We were best friends. And I grew up in their house going on vacation with them. And, yeah, it was just an amazing, amazing run. We went to Georgia State and Atlanta. He ended up going to Dallas Seminary. I went to Southwestern in Fort Worth. And, you know, we've been in and out of each other's lives since, but every now and then, we end up on a train to Oxford.

[A]

And I think one of the things y' all model so beautifully for those of us that are coming up behind you in their 30s and 20s and me, 40, is some of these friendships that you forge a long time ago are the ones that actually keep you close to Christ through the whole thing.

[B]

Yeah, we. You know, it's so funny, Annie. We were crazy knuckleheads in high school, and it's a miracle that God is using either one of us, really. But I respected Andy from even that point on. He's so gifted. Even then, you could tell this guy is extraordinarily gifted. And then, you know, we were in North Point for a good season of our lives. When we moved back to Atlanta, before Passion City Church days, we were at North Point on every Sunday for maybe a decade or so. And I got to preach there a lot. And, you know, Andy and I could not be more different. We are wired differently. Our personality is different. The way we see the world is a little bit different. Our. Yeah, you know, our emphasis in our ministry is a little bit different, but both, you know, love Jesus and want to serve him and have loved him and wanted to serve him as long as I can remember.

[A]

Yeah, it's amazing. It's so fun to watch. As a. As you know this, as a person who attended 7 22, the Bible study you led in 1998, in the early 2000s, I mean, it was. You know, it's just amazing to watch y' all both continue to be in ministry, to be loyal to Jesus when the world has not always been kind to either of y'.

[B]

All. So, yeah, we've seen a lot when Andy's dad, I could talk about this for a long time, but when his dad became the pastor, our church split, went from 3,000 people to 300 people.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

And it was one of the most brutal things. And here. Here we are in middle school, or almost in middle school, and, you know, church people, you know, now are all discovering that the church has flaws. You know, we got warts, you know, around every corner there's imperfect people. But I mean, we saw it early on. I mean like a guy walked up in a business meeting and slug Andy's dad in the jaw. I mean, nearly knocked him out. There was all kind of crazy going on. And so they wouldn't let Andy and his sister into the business meetings because it was no telling what was going to happen. So our church had a big wraparound balcony, downtown Atlanta. And so I would go up in the side door and I would get down on the floor because no one was in the balcony for the business meeting. I crawl around behind the wall and then I'd kind of pop my little head up, see what's going on. Then I would get down and crawl back out, go down to the pastor study, fill Andy in on all the on were happening. And then I would go back up and the whole, you know, two hour business meeting, I'm kind of shuttling back and forth with, you're not going to believe what they just said. You're not going to believe what just happened. Yeah, but God used all that an amazing way. And Annie, Dr. Stanley became the pastor and my family stayed, thank God. My mom stayed, my dad really wasn't, didn't have any dog in that fight. But my mom stayed. And I through high school sat there and watched 300 people become in Touch Ministries and Worldwide Impact and right, just a move of God. And I, I learned right there everything I know about ministry. Preach the Word, trust God, leave the results to him. As Dr. Stanley says, Obey God and leave the results to him. And I knew if I preach the word faithfully, if I love God and preach his word faithfully, whatever I do will grow. And people say, well, what happened at choice Bible study? We just preached the Word. What happened at 7:22? We just preached the Word. What happened in passion? We're just preaching the word of God and pointing people to Jesus. And it's really as simple as that is.

[A]

I have been in a conversation with a friend about one Bible verse that I wanted us to talk about. And because it is this, we're going to talk about Jesus, which is what you're known for in my circle of friends is talking about Jesus. And so I love this verse. And so I wanted to read it to you and have you respond to it. This is First Corinthians 1 and it's 24. This is in the message version. But to us who are personally called by God himself, both Jews and Greeks. Christ is God's ultimate miracle and wisdom all wrapped up in one.

[B]

Eugene Peterson. Boy, he can unpack something, can he?

[A]

That's right.

[B]

How beautiful.

[A]

What do you think? I mean, think about Jesus being the ultimate miracle and wisdom of God.

[B]

Yeah, it's really hard to get our minds around when you, when you think about it, the God is speaking through Jesus. So he is the Word of God. In the beginning was the Word, in the beginning was Jesus. And what was God doing in the beginning? He was speaking. What was he speaking? The wisdom of God. Yeah, the Word of God through the Word of God. And we now have access to Him. And I think that when it all gets clear and everything crystallizes, you realize that Jesus isn't just a, a thing, but he is the thing. And this, this is the difference. I think for a lot of even people in church, Jesus is a thing. He's a real thing, a good thing, an awesome thing. We love this thing. Jesus, Savior, he's amazing, you know, Healer, he's amazing. But I think there's a difference between loving Jesus as nothing and loving him as the thing. And at the end of the day it's just Jesus. It always was, it is and it always will be. And how we got invited into the story is, is another miracle that's probably the second greatest miracle is that we're in the story with the greatest miracle and at the end of the day we're going to be there with him in glory. It says when he appears, this is Colossians, we will appear with him in glory. This is our future. And I don't know, it's just going to be a mind blowing eternity that is far greater than anyone has even imagined. And what a privilege to spend our time today talking about him and the four or five seconds we have on planet Earth to talk about Him.

[A]

Right, right. The whole conversation started yesterday with my friend because we were talking about how at the start of that section it says the cross is foolishness to the people who don't believe. Cause we were talking about how Christians sometimes judge nonbeliever decisions on Christian scales. And then we go like, I can't believe they're doing that. And you're like, well, the cross is foolishness to them, but to us who are being saved, it's the power of God. Right. So you spend so much time investing in the next generation, but we also watch them through TikTok and on TV and all the places be foolish at times. So how do we bring them toward faith without judging them on A scale that is not their scale.

[B]

Wow. I think that's a brilliant way to put that. I think, you know, what business do we have judging people anyway? I mean, God is the ultimate judge. And I think if we mind our own business and try to live a quiet life that honors him, we do well. And I'll let God judge all the other people and you know, kind of help them sort out and straighten out their situation. But you know, all these kids on Tick Tock, all these kids on Tick Tock that sounded just like something an old person would say. You know, they learned most of their foolishness from us. From us, kind of where they learn to be foolish. And so I think that looking down on emerging generations is really, you know, not a very self aware approach to, to them. I, I, I'd just like to offer an alternative that's probably better than a critique is an alternative. And that is to show people that Jesus really is satisfying and that he is, he's more than enough for everything that we're craving in life right now. And I think, honestly, and I don't know, I don't know a lot about the emerging generation, but I think they want to be distracted from some of the pain and hurt that they're dealing with. And TikTok is perfect, it's, it's a perfect distraction. And I mean I can, I don't, I'm not on Tick Tock, but I can get lost in reels on Instagram. And all of a sudden an hour went by and I'd been watching some guy, you know, fish or, you know, watching a dog dance or, you know.

[A]

Yeah, I watch an Australian guy cooking every day. I'm like, what am I doing? What am I doing?

[B]

And I think we all kind of need a diversion. And coming out of 20, 20 and 21, we people want a diversion. And so the Tick Tock came along just at the right time. But I think the downside of Tick tock is its namesake. And I think that people are tick tocking their life away. Tick Tock, Tick tock, Tick Tock. And all of a sudden an opportunity's gone, a day is gone, a chance to walk with God is gone. Maybe a week went by, just one Tick tock at a time. And so we gotta be careful or else I think we're gonna get Tick Tock to death.

[A]

Yes, I think, I mean, I had to quit it because I had no self control and I'm 40 and so I'm going, man, the 18 year olds who don't go, oh, If I don't have self control, I need to leave. I mean, I can't. I can't imagine. I can't imagine being faced with.

[B]

I'm not on TikTok because, you know, you really. It takes self control, but there is no other control. And you don't know what the next thing's gonna be. And all of a sudden it's there and you're like, okay, yeah, I don't want that. But you don't really get to pick and choose. And that's. That's my struggle right now. I used to like Instagram because I got to choose what my feed was and I got to see things in chronological order and I kind of got to follow along with the few people that I, you know, wanted to know what's going on with. And now it's just okay. Because you liked Tim Tebow's post. Here's nine other things that we think you might like. And now I'm watching the guy cooking in Australia.

[A]

That's right. That's exactly right. But one of the things you've modeled so beautifully for me is that we can't be stuck in what we have experienced as a generation and not look down. Not look down in a bad way, but not look down to the next generation and go, okay, what can I do to be with you? I mean, that's what passion's always done, right? That's what the conference says. That's what your books are doing is saying, okay, next generation, come with us and we'll meet you where you are, but come with us toward Jesus.

[B]

Yeah. The future is not, you know, with my generation, that's for sure. You're in the midst of it and you're coming into your prime, you know, 40, 50, those are the best years of life. 60, you know, these are. These are the years that you're preparing for your whole life. So you're like, in a zone. I'm 65 years old in a few months, and I'm not the future of anything. And so I want to invest in the future. And the future is, you know, is a new generation. And they're amazing. I don't want to say they are amazing. I. They're all individuals and they're all different and they're all unique, but they have such great gifts and aptitude and ability, especially this new crew that's coming along that's like 16, 17, 18 right now. They're. They're world changers.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they are going to do some phenomenal things. And if I Can invest in that and have a stake in that. That would be a really great thing to do with the last chapters that I get in my life.

[A]

I'm really excited about Passion 2023. It's sold out everywhere, Right. Like, everybody who's getting in is getting in already, Right? It's done.

[B]

Yeah. We had a dilemma. You know, we. The Benz is stadiums are only available in certain rhythms and time and didn't have an option of a stadium this year. And so we're in Fort Worth in a, I don't know, 12,000 seat configuration. We're in Atlanta and about 17,000 seats. And that sounds great, except that there were 55,000 people there last year. So we knew going in it was going to be a rough ride. And Atlanta sold out a week or so ago. Then Dallas sold out pretty quick after, and people were like, well, why don't you add a third one or add a whatever. And it's like it's a diminishing return at some point, and it's really not feasible financially to do two of them for your people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then you start adding a third one. That's millions of dollars. And so it's kind of frustrating. And I know people are a little bit not thrilled right now given that they're both sold out. But here's the thing. What I've learned is if you want to get into Passion, you can get in. If you really want to be in one of those spaces, you ask God, and I promise you, he will make a way and open a door. Tickets will be available right up to the last second. Somebody's trip got canceled. They decided their family was going to go skiing. You know, the college pastor at the church just left, and the eight of us now don't have anybody to go. And I mean, it's possible. Don't lose hope if you want to get in. It's going to be amazing.

[A]

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[B]

Hey, I just met him on Sunday. He preached at Passion City church Sunday the 5. And first time I've met him. I really liked him and I told him, Jonathan is the only person, Annie, that I've ever invited to Passion that I had not met.

[A]

Wow. Wow.

[B]

So he comes highly recommended and people around me love him and I love the way he talks to this generation. And, man, he shared his story. I didn't know a lot of his life story. And man, his opening five minutes on the talk, he was giving us a snapshot of his life and I was like, whoa, now I know why God's using this guy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So powerfully. But he was amazing. His talk just got put up on our YouTube and he was talking about why the resurrection is so important. And, man, it was incredible. I'm excited. He's gonna be a Passion.

[A]

We did a 12 city tour together in 2020, right before everything shut down. And I. The highest compliment I can give. I can give him two of the highest compliments. One, I listened to his talk all 12 nights. I did not miss his. And it was the same thing. Ish. But I listened every time. And the thing I think you're also gonna see about him, Louie, he served everyone. He checked in on the people doing catering. He's very tall. He slept in a very small bunk on a bus. And I mean, he is a. He's a servant first. And I don't know a lot of those. I'm not.

[B]

Well, I'm glad you said that because. And I'll just. I'll just be honest. You know, I was nervous about meeting him because if he. If he wasn't like that, then it was going to be really tricky.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I didn't know what he was going to be like. And so the first, like, two minutes, I was really anxious about it. Not in a bad way, but just like, okay, I'm about to meet this guy, and I really, really hope that he is humble and I really hope that he comes in low. Not fake low, but real low. And you know instantly whether people are fake low or real low. And I want him to be normal and I want him to notice people and I want him to thank people and I want him to be grateful and I want him to respect our team. And he was saying all that same stuff about us because people say that about our team. We have the best team. Somebody's around. One of our bands was on tour with kb. Yeah, just for the last few weeks. And when I went to The Atlanta night, everyone on their tour said, your guys are the greatest people we've ever been around. And I'm like, well, they better be, because they're not going to be our guys if they're not.

[A]

That's right. You know that's right.

[B]

And he said to me, Jonathan did. He said, man, your team, your artist, blah, blah. Everybody's so great and everybody's so humble and so real. And I was like, well, man, that's. Shouldn't that be the way we all are? But I came away from meeting Jonathan, and I don't want to pump him up too much. When I came away, I was like, hey, I love this style. He has a very unique timing in his delivery unlike anyone. And I could not put my finger on. There's two things in there that I was trying to figure out, and I haven't figured him out yet. But his timing is just refreshing. And the most incredible way. His content was great. Obviously, he loves the Bible and he loves God. Loves God of the Bible. His timing is really cool, and he's a little quirky, and I like that. And it all just works.

[A]

Yeah, he's awesome. I'm so excited. I mean, you know me. I'm such a fan of Passion and the way y'. All. It's like every year we get to gather together and then just have, like, an internal bomb go off in our lives that goes for the whole year of, like, this is what I heard God say, and this is what I experience. It's why we need to gather. It's why it matters that our faith is like. That is, whether it's Sundays or once a year, we need those. Now go and do. Now go and do. Now go and do. And that's how I left Passion last year. Is feeling very inspired to go and do. So I'm really excited about it. Let's talk about at the Table with Jesus and Winning the War on Worry, Your two books that everybody is getting this Christmas. Because in the same vein of us talking about jp, I mean, you two men are two men in my life who've, like, modeled Jesus first. So tell me, what was it about sitting down and going, okay, here's 66 days at the table with Jesus?

[B]

Well, two things. Love to just, you know, thank some people, because these two resources really are, as Levi Luska was saying to me the other day, he goes, you got a whole suite of books around Worry. And he goes, no, not a suite, a fleet. And I said, well, that's because I have an amazing team and I was doing an interview, Annie, with Caroline Leaf, Dr. Caroline Leaf, when don't give the enemy a seat at your table came out and she was explaining to me that the misnomer that I had my whole life, that you can create a new habit in 30 days, in a month, you can create a new habit. She said, actually, it's 66 days. And she said, scientifically proven that in 66 days you can create a new neural pathway in your brain. I said that as if I was an expert, but I didn't know, I didn't know what a neural pathway was until that conversation.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And she said, it's like walking through a field. You know, if you just walk across the pasture once, you can kind of see where your footprints were in the grass. If you do it every day for a few months, there'll be a little path get worn. If you drive a tractor on it, it'll really turn into like a two lane road. And yeah, if you stay with it, you know, you're going to see the fruit of that path in that routine and that consistency. She said, your brain is like that. If you think a negative thought consistently for 66 days, you build a road in your brain that that negative thought now can go 60 miles an hour on, not just six miles an hour.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

But she said, Louis, the opposite is also true. If you consistently for 66 days think a positive thought, then you also can create a roadway in your brain. And so that's why we landed on this table, 66 days to draw closer to Christ, to fortify your faith. And so we were really wanting just to, every single day for 66 days to look at an aspect of Jesus.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And to think about him saying, I'm not going to give the enemy a seat at my table is not the answer. I know that's the title of the book, but that's not the answer. The answer is actually sitting down at the table with Jesus, not. Not sitting down at the table with the enemy. And so I, I loved it. I just actually did it for the second time with one of my guys that I do my soaps with. And it was so great just doing it again.

[A]

I loved watching you do it the first time where every day you were putting up a sticky note on the wall of one thing you learned about Jesus that day. I thought, oh, that is how I'm gonna do this. That is because to me, this is putting it in front of my eyes is what makes the road for me. And seeing it.

[B]

Yeah, I, I loved that too. It Was really refreshing for me. And you know, I was traveling around a lot at that time, so I've got sticky notes everywhere and coming home and trying to get them all up on the wall and then they're all falling off the wall. We had to get some extra heavy duty, stick them to keep them up there for 66 days is a long time. But it was really refreshing. And you know what, what it is, honestly Annie too, is it's a Christology. This book is. It's not just a feel good moment with Jesus every day. It really is teaching people the theology of who Jesus is, what we call Christology. And I think doing it with some friends along the way, a couple different times, people were like, I knew Jesus was born in Bethlehem. I knew he died on a cross for my sins. I know he was raised from the dead on the third day. But man, I didn't know there was so much more to know about Jesus that I didn' about him. So it's been really a really great journey.

[A]

And I mean, these may not correlate at all. So say, Annie, you're wrong, but I mean, is there something too that there's 66 books in our Protestant Bible and it takes 66 days, am I right? And there's 66 books in our Protestant bible.

[B]

There are 66 books in the Bible.

[A]

Did God do that on purpose or did Martin Luther do that on purpose? I guess that's who I need to ask.

[B]

Yeah, just read one book a day for 66 days.

[A]

Just read psalms in a day, you'll be able to deuteronomy. So I mean, for our friends, listen, we, you know, we've done read the Gospels around here where we read the Gospels in a month, where you read three books, three chapters a day, and you get through the whole Gospels, all four of them, in a month. And so we've got some fun stuff with that coming up. But why is it Jesus, Louie? Like, for those of our friends who are new to doing this, they're jumping in with Advent with us for the first time. They're maybe new to studying. Why don't we start in the Old Testament? Why is it okay to start in the middle of the book per se and go for Jesus first?

[B]

Well, you know, I think that's a great question. And it doesn't really matter where you start. Honestly, it's Jesus. And I think there's this misnomer that, oh, the Old Testament, that's all, you know, that. And then there's the Gospels, that's all about Jesus. And then there's this other part that's kind of all about how we do life and do church. Now, the after Jesus, we worked, our team worked on the Jesus Bible. We've been asked to do Bibles for a while, you know, the worship Bible, the Passion Bible, this Bible. And we're like, why would we want to do a Bible? The Bible's the word of God. And then finally someone pitched this idea, what about the Jesus Bible? And I was like, done. We are doing the Jesus Bible.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the reason we did it was because it gave us the opportunity to show how in every bit of the whole Bible, all of scripture, I prefer to call it scripture because the Bible doesn't call itself the Bible, but in all of scripture, it's about Jesus. The whole story is about Jesus from beginning to end. And so it doesn't matter where you start, it's still going to be about Jesus. But why not fast forward to the part where Jesus is actually on earth in a human body, saying to us, if you've seen me, you've seen the Father. So if you look into the face of Christ and into the life of Christ, you are looking at Almighty God, you are hearing almighty God, you are. You see a visible representation of Yahweh. And Jesus is not just another smart guy. He's not just another crusader, another campaigner, another non profit ministry leader. He's not just another cause carrier. He is the image of the invisible God. And so why not get our eyes locked on him and our hearts locked on him and stay locked on him for the rest of our lives?

[A]

It's one of the reasons I love you and Andy having these books come out around the same time. His not in it to win it. And this at the table with Jesus of going like, what if to live in the culture we live in, what if we just read about Jesus every day and then went out and lived? I think that, I mean, I think that's who I wanna be, Louie. I want Jesus to tell me what to do in the morning and then me to live that for the rest of the day.

[B]

Yeah, we've been doing a series here, Andy, called Shift. The F is real important in that series title, by the way. And we've been talking about prayer and I didn't really know this, but I was doing a kind of a deep dive into the original language. And the word when Jesus said and when you pray, that word that he used for prayer, it really means to exchange wills. So it's me getting in a zone where I'm saying, not my will, but your will. This is what Jesus did when he prayed, using that same word, not my will, but your will be done. And so when I pray, I am saying to God, I want to be on your page. And it's what you're saying. You know, we've spent so much of our lives trying to get God on our page. Lord, here's how I need you to enter into my story, to, you know, affect things in the way that I think they need to be affected. Prayer is really about me hearing from God so that I can get on God's page. Jesus said he did what he saw the Father doing, and he spoke the things that he saw with his Father, so he was alone with God understanding what his Father's doing. So then he would go and do what he understood his Father was doing. And that's what the way I want to live as well. I want to wake up in the morning and I want to say, I'm available to you, versus I need you to be available to me today. I'm gonna be available to you today. And whatever you want, whatever you need, I'm available.

[A]

Yeah. I think this is one of the reasons I love the idea of at the table with Jesus. Being one of the books we, like, put in stockings and pass out to start in the new year is just going like, hey, spend the first two months of the year reading three pages about Jesus and learning something new about him or hearing it in a new way. The thing I have learned, Louis, correct me if I'm wrong, as always, that's just an overarching statement about our friendship. Always correct me if I'm wrong. I can't get to the bottom of Jesus. Like, there's. I don't run out of learning. Every book I read, I learn something new.

[B]

Well, that's the beauty of being in a relationship, I think. And if it were just information, we would turn the last page of the book and we would go, wow, that's great. That was a very amazing read, and I learned a lot. But Jesus isn't a book to be read. He's not a theology to be studied. He's a person to be enjoyed. And he's not just a person to be enjoyed, but he's. He's infinite in every way and on every level. He's the supreme version of everything that is good. And so what's. You know, there's no depth to him in his love. Even I. We talk about the love of God, but it's deeper, wider, higher, longer. Than we know. So there's going to be an eternity so that we can understand truly how much we are loved by God, specifically through Christ. So I think when you're in a relationship, Shelly and I've been married 30 something years now. Should have been able to pull that out faster. 36 years. But I. There's never been a day where I'm like, okay, I get it.

[A]

All right. Sort of. I know everything. Yeah.

[B]

Every day there's some new something to be appreciated and to be enjoyed, to be discovered. So what, what God's inviting us into, Annie, what we're saying to everyone listening today is not into a head thing. God wants us to engage our brains. He gave them to us so that we could know him.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But he's inviting us into a relationship, an evolving, living relationship. And this is what we're made for. And this is why our hearts are so hungry and why we're starved for. For things is because we were made for someone as big as Jesus.

[A]

Yeah. When we're thinking into next year and thinking about what's coming culturally with elections and just what's going on in the world for all of our friends who are newer to Jesus, why is starting a day with him match with what's going on culturally? Like, even if you don't believe in him, how can you learn from Jesus?

[B]

Well, I think the thing I learned from Jesus the most is that he doesn't float above. That sounds a little bit too frou frou. But he operates above the culture.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And this is what we all need right now. Jesus doesn't get. He's not impervious to cultural pressures, but he. He doesn't get bogged down in them. Because his agenda is bigger.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And he's actually, in more ways than we would know, using all the craziness in the culture to accomplish things that we don't fully understand. I remember that text in the Old Testament where it says, and Cyrus came like a bird out of the east. And why? Because he's going to take down Babylon. Well, who is Babylon? And Nebuchadnezzar and that whole empire was coming down so that the people of God could be returned back to the land of God. So God's like moving. I don't know if I can say this or not. Like Putin sized pieces.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And just as we. If we were playing backgammon with a friend, he's like, okay, time to move you over here. Time to move you over here. Because I'm accomplishing something that is so far beyond what any of you see right now, that's the way we need to start our day. And when you are walking with the king of kings, the premier of premiers, the president of presidents, the ruler of rulers, the ayatollah of ayatollahs, and you're walking with him, it lifts you up, Annie, to be above it, not to be disconnected from the. There are real issues going on right now. I mean, I just voted in the early voting here. There are some crazy, challenging issues in Atlanta, Georgia. And I want to get behind candidates who are sane and who have common sense and who have integrity and a desire for righteousness. I want to get behind people like that. And so I don't want to just, you know, kind of like, oh, I'm not involved in that. But at the same time, I want to start my day above the fray, if you will.

[A]

Yeah, it's. I mean, that is a perfect way for us to walk.

[B]

And I don't know if you can say, by the way, Jesus is the Ayatollah of Ayatollah, so, you know, we might need to just make sure everybody understands what we're saying there.

[A]

He's yes.

[B]

Greater than any ruler of any kind and all of history. He is the king of all things.

[A]

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That's P R-O-S-.com for your free in depth hair consultation and 15% off. And now back to finish up our conversation with Louie. I. We've all said King of Kings since we were singing Christmas songs as children. And it has only been in the last three or three years or something where I've been, like, what does it mean that he is the king of all of them? Like, every king that's ever been, like, even if we. I think that's one of the most fun parts about faith, is if you will slow down. It's why I've spent two days in that First Corinthians verse, is if we will just slow down and go look at those words. Cause even in that one that we read about, like, what Jesus said or what Paul said is, the cross is foolishness to the nonbelievers, but it is power to us, not wisdom. So why. Right. Like, why so even digging those little things? So when you say King of Kings, I'm like, right over every king ever. He's the king. And for so many people who are just covered in anxiety and worry and fear, that is hopeful. That is like a drop of hope that comes into it. And your devotion, you wrote Winning the War on Worry. Will you talk a little bit about that? Cause that's. I mean, this is able to just go in our backpacks and be that bit of hope that we need.

[B]

Yeah, I'm glad you said that. I've been talking about this book for the last few weeks since it came out. And it really is a. A pocketbook. I mean, I'm holding it right now. It would fit your purse, fit in your back pocket, depending on how big your jeans are. And it just. It's. It's practical freedom. And I. I wrote it as a weekly, daily devotion. But then we put it all together into a book so that people could have a practical handbook to fight against worry. And I wrote it, Annie, because I come from worry. My parents, if they gave out Olympic medals for worrying, we'd have some on the wall at our house. And I came from an environment of worry. I talk about it in the book once when I was in late high school, maybe somewhere around senior year, was. Came home, we'd all had dinner, and I was gonna. We lived in an apartment complex. I was just gonna go out the back door and around to a few buildings, around to where my friend Ray lived and, I don't know, we were just gonna hang around, do whatever, you know, high school kids do. Walk through the den and my dad was sitting on the sofa. My dad, I know, knew had been an orthodontist that day and had a major like ordeal. I think he was in the process of getting dentures. And I didn't really ask a lot of questions because, you know, high school kids didn't ask their parents a lot of questions about stuff like that. And so I knew it was not a great day. Probably come through the den, I say, dad, I'm going to Ray's house, I'll be back in a little bit. And he goes, I would just prefer if everyone stayed in the house tonight. No, no, let me back up. He goes, today has been the worst day of my life and I would prefer that everyone just stayed in the house tonight. Wow. And you know, when you're a teenager, your, your response mechanism is sarcasm and, you know, argument. And I mean, I just, I got it, I was like, got it turned around, went back to my room, shut the door, went to bed, didn't bring it up the next day. But it dawned on me that my dad that day had had this horrible thing happen to him where now he's going to have dentures. But what it, what dawned on me, Annie, is that every time I walked out the door, my dad had worried himself sick.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

About me.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

In this day, he just couldn't add that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What he was already dealing with.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. And for good reason. My dad worried like that. My dad was passed around to different relatives when he was 2 years old, 3 years old, 5 years old, 6 years old, and he never kind of knew what was around the corner. But that's the environment I came out of. And so I have a tendency to be like that. And I wanted to be free from that. And so I had to start by admitting that I'm a worrier. But then we start the book with this pretty radical idea that worry is a choice. So I may be born into worry and I was born into giglio level worry.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I've also been born again. And I don't mean to make light of this or, you know, make it sound like a spiritual slogan, but I've been born again. And my father, my heavenly father has never worried one time in his existence, not one time has he ever worried. And he's my dad and I am born to him and I actually have his spiritual genes in me. So the book is a practical guide to helping Us get on that page. And to get off the page of.

[A]

Worry, why is anxiety feel more prevalent than it was five years ago or 10 years ago? Is it, is it not? Do we just have more? Do we talk about it more? Do we have new words for it?

[B]

Well, I mean, everyone has heard the saying that there are 365 references in the Bible to don't fear. And those are all couched around don't worry, don't be anxious, don't be afraid. So apparently being afraid and being anxious has been around for a long time, so it's not like a new occurrence. Because Jesus talked about worry, you know, don't worry about tomorrow. Today's got enough issues of its own. Yes, Paul talked about worry casts all your cares, all your anxiety on him for he cares for you. So this is 2,000 years ago. So worry is not new. Anxiety is not new. I think that the impetus of anxiety is obviously different in the last 10 years since that we put smartphones in our hands. And there's no. That's not a knock on smartphones or iPads or whatever. It's just you can't worry less if you are on a screen all day, because what the screen is doing, it's. It's lifeline is anxiety. And it's not a calming device there. You don't pick it up and the first headline is, God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life. And then you swipe over and it says, never fear because God is near. Then you swipe up to the next thing and it says, you are loved son of Almighty God. You're a loved daughter of a king of kings. You're pursued and sought after and valued and prized by the God of all creation. And then you click on the next app and you know, it's calming music. You know, that's not what it's designed to be. No, it's designed to be a hook and to keep hooking and hooking and hooking and hooking. So you come back over and over and over again and get that. That hit that you need. And so, yes, I think the. The culture is creating more. The word anxiety in the Bible means to tear apart. And so. And even the word worry has that in it as well. So when someone says, I was worried to pieces. That's an accurate.

[A]

I meant it. Yeah.

[B]

Of the New Testament word. And so what is. What is in our culture? A lot of ripping, a lot of tearing, a lot of fragmentation is in the culture. And that's why we've got to Come back to the table with Jesus, who's not fragmented and isn't coming apart at the seams.

[A]

Yes. The highest integrity. Right. He is connected in every way. Connected in every way. Okay, so let's finish with this. I just want you for a minute to tell me your favorite thing about Jesus.

[B]

Wow. I think my favorite thing about Jesus is his compassion. And I say that just because of how much I have tested his compassion in my life. I'm like, we were talking about at the very beginning, about judging people, you know, and holding them to a Christian standard, even though they don't understand the cross and the things of God. I think we all are judgmental, and when we are, we forget how patient God has been with us.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And one of the things that I think is God is sold short on is his patience. It is a fruit of the spirit, and we all need the spirit of God to. To be more patient. But think about how ridiculous it is, Annie, to be invited to walk next to Yahweh and to not do it right. Or to be invited to have the wisdom of God, but then to go and just do something stupid because you decided you'd figure it out on your own. And when you do that. When I do that, I don't get fire and brimstone.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Don't get blown off the planet. I get a father's arm on my shoulder going, hey, hey. And I get compassion. The psalmist said it this way. He knows that we are frail, and he remembers that we are dust. And I just. I don't know, I. I guess it's just maybe part of my life story, but I need compassion and patience. And I'm so grateful to Jesus that that's the way he operated. The only people he doesn't have a lot of compassion for are people who are puffed up with their own righteousness and trying to beat their chest about how great they are. And he just has no tolerance for that whatsoever. Everyone else in the story, he had compassion on them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I love it.

[A]

Whenever I get prideful or get too big for my own britches, the first thing the Lord reminds me is like, you haven't missed one of your sins. You have perfect attendance. So what are you doing? How do you. I mean, that is like. That is his first reminder of me of, like, you've been with you every day. What do you. You remember? And so whenever I start to feel haughty about anything, that's. The kindness of God reminds me to be humble, because I have not missed any of it of my own life. I haven't missed his compassion and I haven't missed my mistakes.

[B]

Yeah, I love that scripture that says, you know, the kindness of God leads us to repentance and it's really a beautiful thing. And even going back to the Jonathan Pacluda thing, you know, people say, well, how, how can someone be in the spotlight and be on a platform and have a following and blah blah, blah, whatever all that stuff is. And be humble and you know the answer to that. That is a. The dumbest question to me. And I don't. I guess I shouldn't have said that. I mean that I just do not understand that question. But hump. Humility is not something. A character trait to be developed. It's the way I see it. And like you don't sit down one day and go, I'm going to become more humble.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I'm going to start working on my list of to do list today. And one of the things is I'm going to be more humble. And here's the four things I'm going to do to be more humble.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's not like that. It's not a character trait to be developed. Humility is the byproduct of being with Jesus. And no one is with Jesus and is proud. No one.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I think, I guess maybe, you know, Peter might have had a moment or two, but I still my favorite guy.

[A]

Still my favorite guy.

[B]

Peter, after the breakfast by the Sea of Galilee was bold, but I bet he wasn't proud.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so draw near to God and you do take stock of yourself real fast.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that I think produces a kind of. Of being low. I know we're down to the end, but someone shared this first last week and I don't know why I hadn't seen it as much, but it was, it's that first at the end of Mount Carmel and it says that Elijah, so he's called down the power of God, right. He's just done one of the showcase events in of Christianity and the church. And it says that he told Ahab to go the wicked king, go and eat and drink. But Elijah went up to the top of the mountain, knelt down to the ground and put his head between his knees. So he just done the greatest thing that any prophet is going to do. The next thing he does is he just disappears into the to the mountain side and gets as low as he can. And I think it's that rhythm of life. And he of okay, God did something great. Awesome. Let's don't post about it. Let's just go home. Let's don't be big. Let's just get small, and let's just disappear into the mountainside and be grateful that we were in the story of God. And I. I think that that is the byproduct of walking with God.

[A]

Yes. One of our pastors at Crosspoint, he quotes some old guy who's long gone and I can't remember it now, but we'll put it in the show notes. And he says, preach the gospel and be forgotten. And I'm like, oh, that's it. Right? That's beautiful. Okay. Is there anything we didn't say that you want to say, Louie?

[B]

No, I love that. And I think I do really feel like the Lord just landed on that in a way. And let's just say it one different way. I think I've told you this story before, but Nikki Gumbel, major leader in the Anglican Church in England, does a big leadership event in Royal Albert Hall. So that's pretty cool, right? And everyone on the planet but myself has spoken at this event. I mean, it is the thing. And Matt Redmond told me a story that he was leading worship there. He had had a headache and had gone out around to the pharmacy to get something for his headache, was walking back up the sidewalk. A big session had just ended. Nikki Gumbel had just interviewed the Prime Minister, the then exiting prime minister, Tony Blair of England. And he's coming up the sidewalk and he sees Nikki come out. And he stops. Nikki doesn't see him. Nikki gets his bike unlocked from the bike stand, puts a little rubber band around his pant leg, puts his helmet on out of his backpack, puts his backpack on, gets on his bike. Because he lives just around the corner from Royal Albert hall, or he did until recently. And off he goes on his bicycle. Matt goes up the door, same door Nikki came out of, up to the green room. And there is every famous Christian in the world in this green room. And Nikki Gumbel's halfway home on his.

[A]

Bike with a helmet on.

[B]

Forgotten that story. Do well, get on your bike, ride.

[A]

Home, go home, go home. That's it. Okay, Louie, the last question we always ask because the show is called that Sounds Fun. Tell me what sounded fun to you these days.

[B]

I knew you were going to ask me that. And I don't remember what I said last time, but today I thought what sounds most fun right now is to go for a walk on in the plaza in Florence. Okay, the most fun right now. And that's what I want to do today, and I want to walk down to the, to the church. The domo there, you know, is one of the most crazy architectural accomplishments in history. It's one of the largest domes ever, but it was built without flying buttresses, and it's just remarkable. But if you go that way and then turn down the road and go a little ways down, there's the little church of Santa Croce down there. And in it, it's not very big. It's a little, tiny place, but in it are buried Galileo, Machiavelli, and Michelangelo. In this one little, tiny little church.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And. But there's a fresco on the wall there of the prodigal son returning to the Father. And it's not the famous. The super famous one that everybody knows, but it is absolutely beautiful. And I think walking down there and seeing that fresco and then going and getting some pasta sounds really good.

[A]

I was going to ask you if you're going to be holding gelato or pizza. Pasta. Pasta will do. Louis, thanks for coming on. Again, thanks for these works. Just write as many books about Jesus as you want. I'll read them all. So thank you, thank you, thank you.

[B]

Hey, what sounds most fun is coming on this podcast. You are really one of my favorite people, and I know everyone that comes on tells you that, but absolutely. I just love your love for Jesus and I just love how true and authentic you are. And I've been looking forward to this for a bit and enjoyed every second of it and look forward to the Advent journey you guys are going to be on this year as well. It looks super cool and I couldn't be more excited about it.

[A]

Thank you. You're great. Thank you, thank you. Oh, you guys. Don't you love him? I love Louie and Shelley Giglio so much. I'm so grateful. I mean, one of my favorite pastors for going on 25 years of my life. 30 years. Wowie. Zowie. Almost 30. The math is hard. At least 25. Be sure to pick up Winning the War with Worry and at the Table with Jesus. Be sure to follow his social media. Tell Louis thanks for being on the show. I hope you're all signed up to join us for our Advent series. It starts in 10 days. If you haven't had the chance yet, you can find all the info about this fun new series we're doing together@annie f downs.com advent and if you're subscribed to the podcast, those daily episodes will just drop in your feed each weekday of Advent. I hope you really love them. If you need anything else for me, you know, I'm embarrassingly easy to find. Annie F downs on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, all the places you may need me. That's how you can find me. And I think that's it for me today. Friends, go out or stay home and do something that sounds fun to you, and I will do the same today. What sounds fun to me? Oh, I don't know. I can't believe I don't know. Have I ever said I don't know? Today what sounds fun to me is putting up my Christmas tree. I'm gonna do a little. A little bit of Christmas decorating today, so that sounds fun. Y' all have a great weekend. We'll see you back here on Monday. As we start preparing our hearts for Advent. We have two really special shows next week that'll get us kicking off for Advent, and it starts on Monday with our dear friend Tish Oxenrider. We'll see y' all then.

[B]

Yeah, I like that.

[A]

Round.

[B]

Two on a microphone. Any f downs in your car to your home. Check 1, 2. On a microphone. The phone nef down in your car to your home.

[A]

Yeah.