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That's Total Mom Sense
JACQUELINE BEAUCHERE: Oh Snap! What Parents Must Know About Teens on Social Media
01:07:01
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- [00:00]
Commercial Narrator
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Kanika Chadha Gupta
sale@blinds.com this episode is produced in partnership with Snapchat. I want to be really clear about why I said yes to this collaboration. As a parent, I don't believe in blind trust or blanket bans when it comes to technology. Our kids are growing up in a digital world and it's our job to help them navigate it. That's why I appreciate tools like Snapchat's Family center, which gives parents real visibility into how their teens use the app and and lets them adjust keep settings to help guide their teens toward a safe and positive online experience. Snapchat recently added new features that offer parents deeper insights like the ability to see the average amount of time that their teens spent on Snapchat each day over the previous week and details about how their teen might know a new friend. You can also see who your teen is talking to, set content restrictions, share location as a family, and more. Snapchat also recently introduced the Keys, a free online safety program designed for teens and their families. It covers some of the most serious risks that teens could face across online platforms, including harassment and bullying and illicit online drug activity. It's not fear based and it doesn't talk down to our kids. It's meant to educate teens to help equip them with the tools to respond should they ever encounter the these issues in real life. This partnership is about education and awareness, helping parents move from I'm scared, I don't understand this technology to I am right here with you and let's figure this out together. If you have a teen, I encourage you to explore these resources. Visit parents.snapchat.com family center and thekeys.snapchat.com safeguarding our kids doesn't happen by default. It happens when we show up. Stay informed and stay connected. There is no hood like parenthood. Hi, I'm Kanika Chadha Gupta. I'm a former CNN journalist, mom of three, including twins, and host of that's Total Momsense the podcast. Now if I had a dollar every time I heard gee, you have your hands full on my show, I interview change makers on their life lessons, legacy and superpower of intuition, which I call our Mom Sense and dad Sense. I've had the privilege of working with Mom 2.0, March of Dimes and the White House and have had some pretty amazing parents on my show. Hey, what's up? I'm Kelly Rowland.
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Guest Speaker (Teen Voices)
Hi.
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Jacqueline Bosher
This is Chelsea Clinton.
- [03:14]
Kanika Chadha Gupta
It's me, Bobby Brown.
- [03:16]
Jacqueline Bosher
Can't wait to share my story.
- [03:18]
Kanika Chadha Gupta
That's Total momsense is a production of the evergreen Podcast network. Be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts and on YouTube so you never miss an episode. To join my tribe, visit thatstotalmomsense.com and follow me on Instagram. Atanika Chadha Gupta now let's dive in to today's episode. Hello everyone. Welcome to that's Total Momsense, a podcast where we bring you industry leaders to discuss pressing topics in a thought provoking way. We encourage you to think critically and see the big picture. Today we're focusing on parenting as it relates to tech and social media. On one end, there are parents who are fearful that smartphones and social media are ruining an entire generation. On the other hand, there's a this is just how kids are now narrative that minimizes real harms. On the Internet, conversations swing between panic and permissiveness. What's my goal? Problem solving. This is the world we live in. We have come a long, long way since the industrial revolution and steam engines cars are driving themselves. So as technology evolves, we need to stay educated and hopefully smarter than our kids. As a journalist, it's my duty to gather data so you can draw your own conclusions. I'm also a mom of three and the primary caregiver in our household.
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Guest Speaker (Teen Voices)
So.
- [04:47]
Kanika Chadha Gupta
So I have high stakes in this game. Personally, I'm not anti tech. I'm also not pro unrestricted tech. I'm someone who believes the truth usually lives in the middle ground. I want my kids to be able to come to me with everything from what happened at school that day to what they encounter online. So I have to be curious, stay on guard, have a growth mindset and learn. Today I'm joined by Jacqueline Bosher, the first ever global head of platform safety at Snapchat. Jacqueline, I am so grateful to have you on that sotal momsense to give us insights and intel from the inside. Thanks so much for joining us.
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Jacqueline Bosher
Thank you so much for having me and really appreciate your interest.
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Kanika Chadha Gupta
Absolutely. So you are the first ever global head of platform safety at Snapchat. And before that you spent over 20 years at Microsoft and went on to serve as the chief online safety officer. What originally drew you to online safety work? And this is like well, before it became mainstream.
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Jacqueline Bosher
Absolutely. So I think you could understand that when I was growing up, when I was in high school, when I was in undergraduate school, this kind of a role, this kind of a position did not exist. When I joined Microsoft. I joined as an attorney in their legal department, corporate counsel, responsible for communications to government about major litigation. I was also a legislative attorney at the time. And some of the work that I was doing was around what they called at the time anti child porn blocking bills. All of the states across the nation were basically saying if you were offering Internet access, online access to your users, you had to block their ability to be able to access illegal contraband content. So that was my first entry into this kind of a space, if you will. Then it turned into, at the time, that's when spam was popular. That's when phishing P H I S H I n g was just coming online. What it would be like to hearken back to those days of those being the risks.
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Commercial Narrator
Right.
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Jacqueline Bosher
But it got me thinking. It's like, wow, wow. People need to know that these risks are out there. As I said, I was in the legal department at the time and I put together an awareness raising and educational program for consumers about online safety. And it was, it was funny time because at the, at that time my supervisor said, well, that's really great work, but we don't do that in the legal department. I said, okay, well where do we do it? Because I'm going to go do it there. And then I actually moved over to MSN and part of Microsoft and I became a spokesperson on some of these issues. I became sort of the face of Microsoft on some of these issues and then specifically other issues for msn. And then it kind of took off from there. Then I joined another part of the company where they focused on security, privacy, accessibility, a little bit of online safety at the time and these types of issues. So a few months, a few years into that kind of an effort, they came up with the, well, we have a chief Privacy officer, We have a chief security officer. We should probably have a chief online safety officer. And they handed me a job description and kind of the rest is history. So I was the first one for that company as well. And I was actually the first one in all of industry. So it was at a time when this wasn't a really popular job role.
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Kanika Chadha Gupta
Yes. And now it's Essential.
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Jacqueline Bosher
It is, it is truly a corporate discipline and needs to be.
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Kanika Chadha Gupta
Was there a moment in your career that you realized that this isn't just a tech issue, it's not so insular. This actually affects society at large.
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Jacqueline Bosher
Absolutely. I think I was actually one of the first people to call this, these issues, whole of society issues. And it was about eight or 10 years ago when I was dealing things with like violent extremism and terrorist content and child sexual exploitation and abuse. What I call the parade of horribles that traverses the web on a regular basis. And they truly are whole of society issues. And the companies that I work for, and now at Snap, we try to bring a whole of company approach in response.
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Kanika Chadha Gupta
That's excellent. Now I want to actually shift gears to talk about smartphones before we zero in on social media. So my stance on smartphones, I feel like it's important to share. I think that it's really up to each family to decide when their child is ready. I have friends who are in New York City and they gave their kids smartphones at ages 9 and 10 because they knew that they were taking the bus or the MTA and needed them to have the access. And in the suburbs, you know, you can wait till they're teenagers because I know for one, I'm driving my three kids around everywhere. Michael Rich, pediatrician and Harvard professor, shares that when you give your child a smartphone, you should be ready to explain to them about porn, racism and fraud. So now when we're providing our kids with smartphones, they're getting unfettered access to the Internet, but also a phone, a flashlight, a TV screen, radio, porn magazine, everything. And I feel like it's, it's really the onus is on the parents to know when their child is mature enough or, you know, when there's a need. And with that comes all the apps and the social media and the amount of screen time. And what I'm really condoning is parents, we can't be laissez faire. We have to be vigilant about what our kids are doing, so see what they see and that way we're truly informed and can provide the guardrails that they need. So I just, I wanted to just give that blanket statement before we get into social media.
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Jacqueline Bosher
Absolutely, I agree with your approach, Kanika. It's. It's absolutely the way to go. So many of these decisions really should be left to families because it is the family that knows their children the best. Their teens, their children, whatever the case may be. And this needs to Be based, based on the age of the child, the maturity level of the child, the family values, and as you noted, the family needs. You can give a child a phone if they are eight or nine, because as you said, in New York City, they're taking the bus, they're taking the subway, they need to get to school, they need to get to activities, they need to get home, whatever the case may be, if that is what's needed. You can give a phone, it doesn't necessarily have to be a smartphone. It could be, you know, the quote unquote dumb phone. But you have to assess what is the need? Is it to just get in touch if there's an emergency? You know, is there something else that's needed? So that's another option. We have this broad guide rail, if you will, in the U.S. about wait till eighth. Yes, that's eighth grade, not age eight. And I think that is probably a good one as a general guide post. But again, it comes back to the family unit and what the family needs for their values, their needs. And they need to assess that as a family. And incidentally, I would be remiss in not noting that Dr. Michael Rich, he is actually on our safety advisory board here at Snap. And he's a tremendous voice and a great advocate and real clear thinker about these issues. Just one of the many voices that we tap on a regular basis.
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Kanika Chadha Gupta
Oh, that's brilliant. I love to hear that. Now let's get into social media. So one thing that parents need to understand is how the platforms differ. Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, TikTok, YouTube, they all serve different purposes. And what's interesting is our teens are acutely aware of what app they're using and why. So tell us how Snapchat is structurally different from the other platforms out there that may be more public or performance driven or even algorithm amplified.
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Jacqueline Bosher
Exactly. Everyone, every one of those platforms has their own unique appeal and how they delight their users right at Snapchat. And this is why I joined this company. It really is a privacy centric platform. I, by nature, I'm a privacy hawk. So I like this. It is really about connecting and enhancing your relationships with people whom you already know in real life. So that's friends and family. It's where you can be your authentic self. You don't have to be pretty, you don't have to be perfect. It's not going to have content that's going to be saved in perpetuity. You can now on Snapchat, retain snaps and messages if you want to on a long term basis, but you don't have to. Snapchat is known for that ephemerality, that delete by default. That was one of the key hallmarks of the app very early on. But it really is about, it's not performative. It really is about enhancing those communications with the people whom you already know in real life. And funny enough, when you open our app, it opens to the, the camera so that you can take a snap and share what's going on in the moment with the people who matter most to you. It doesn't open to this seemingly endless feed of news and information that you can, you know, fall into the doom scrolling kind of a pit. Right. It's all about creativity, not consumption.
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Kanika Chadha Gupta
That's excellent. And what are some of the built in protections that Snapchat has to keep teens safe? Because I think one misconception that a lot of parents have is that the disappearing messages can lead to all sorts of nefarious activity on the app. So what are the safety measures that are in place?
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Jacqueline Bosher
So I think the very nature of the architecture of the app itself is one of the safety features. Again, it's not a place that you're going to go to find new people to make new friends. It's a place where you're going to go to share the moment, in the moment with the people who matter most to you.
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Commercial Narrator
Right.
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Jacqueline Bosher
So by nature, that's part of it. Again, not an ideal place to meet new people. I can also say that it really does focus on the creativity sense. So people, and particularly younger people are attracted to the app because of the filters and the lenses that we have. So you can, you know, put on bunny ears, you can vomit a rainbow and you can, you know, share this with your friends and family. And I like to describe it kind Monica as childlike without being childish. And it appeals to young people because of these filters and lenses and all the fun things that you can do. But the bulk of our user base, more than 80%, is actually over the age of 18. So I think they use it at a younger teen age and then they continue to use it and it just becomes the way that the family and the friend groups connect. So in terms of other safeguards and so forth, we don't make friend lists public. They are private on Snapchat. And sometimes, yes, there are some bad actors out there and if they have access to one person in the friend group, they will see all the potential contacts and the potential targets in the friend group. That is something that is not public. On Snapchat, we also don't have likes and followers in a public sense. So it's not this kind of competition or we don't have these peer validation metrics. It really is again, more of a privacy centric kind of a platform. And then we can get into some of the more specific safeguards that we have in place for teens. For instance, we're, we're very cautious about friending. You can find friends on Snapchat, it is one of our features. But these are people that are in your contact book already. These are people whose phone number you have already. These are people that you have mutual friends in contact with, multiple mutual friends. But one of the things that we do with friending is that if you get a friend request from someone that you don't have a lot of mutual friends with, someone who may have been blocked or reported by others, not for any kind of an egregious offense, but something a little less egregious or somebody who's outside your immediate geographic location and could come from a part of the world that is known for kind of scam spamming activity. We're going to flag that to you as a teen. We're going to send you an alert in app in conversation and say, hey, Kanika is not somebody that you have a lot of mutual friends with. Are you sure you can trust her? Do you want to be friends with her? Do you want to pursue this relationship? So those are the kinds of warnings that we, we, we have in place as well.
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Kanika Chadha Gupta
That's excellent. Could you walk us through the step by step process of how a parent can, you know, launch their own account on Snapchat? Because I do think that this should be an activity that families do together and then, you know, you go into the parental controls and all of that. But yeah, how do we, how do we start?
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Jacqueline Bosher
You start by going to the App Store, of course, and downloading Snapchat. And you're going to have to go through a couple of questions or what have you. They're going to ask you your birth date, they're going to ask you for an email address or a phone number, something that's going to verify your, your, your identity. And of course, we want everyone to be truthful about all of it's very, very important. So it's just your standard kind of an app login and an app registration. But as you said, we have something called Family center and Family center was launched in the United States in August of 2022 and all English, English speaking markets at the Same time. Then we launched globally in October of 2022. So this will be our four year milestone for that set of features. We don't refer to them, Kanika, as parental controls because we are trying to find the balance between what teens need on Snapchat and what teens expect and what parents need and what parents expect. So in the broadest sense of things, risk can come from the people with whom we are in contact and the content that we share and consume. So let's just call that as contact and content in the broadest sense. This is where risk can come from. What you have access to in terms of insights to what your teen is doing on Snapchat via Family center is who their friends are. I just told you a few minutes ago that we don't tell you who the friends are. It's there are no public friends lists so you're going to be able to see the list of people that your teen is friends with. When was the last time they communicated? Over the course of the last seven days. Who is communicating with them and who they are communicating with. And then if you don't like one of the names on the list, what's the easiest thing to do? Kanika CG Is that someone in your class? That's not somebody that I know. Is she somebody on your, your football team, your soccer team, whatever the case is? Right. You can have that conversation. That's what Family center is about. At the end of the day, it is designed to spark meaningful conversation with parents and teens about life online and life on Snapchat. You are not going to be able to see the content of their messages and the content of their snaps. This is a very critical time. Snapchat is a 13 platform and this is a critical time in their development. They are coming into their own. They are gaining their own autonomy and independence and they want their privacy. But you are going to get a number of insights within Family center to again spark conversations, spark meaningful dialogue, swing wide the doors to open communication and have meaningful conversations and sometimes about sensitive subjects.
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Kanika Chadha Gupta
Okay, great. Yes. I'm excited to actually double click on all the different topics that we can have conversations one on one conversations with our kids. That's just going to be really, really insightful for us. I actually launched my own Snapchat account and had some fun with it. I loved picking my bitmoji and I gave myself some cute earrings and a vest as I was choosing my outfit. It was great. One thing I wanted to know is why there are bitmojis and avatars Instead of photos for a d. Well, it's,
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Jacqueline Bosher
it's again, that private nature of the app. You don't have to necessarily represent yourself in living form. You can have how you want to the the world to perceive you in this Bitmoji form. So it's another, it's another way of representing yourself. I think for most adults out there, we're all on other apps, we're all on other platforms as well. If someone wants to know you in real life and how you are in your authentic person self, they can, they can find that elsewhere if they need to. But this is how you want to represent yourself on Snapchat in that fun, playful, childlike, but not childish way.
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Kanika Chadha Gupta
Yes. Okay.
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Jacqueline Bosher
And you can always change your outfits. Don't forget Kanika.
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Kanika Chadha Gupta
Yes. Yes. I mean, it reminds me of class dojo. My, my kids are younger, so they do that with their monsters and, and have fun with that. Okay, now let's zoom out and look at the digital world that we're raising our kids who are n native to screens at large. And we, we saw this shift from 2012 onwards. I'm a millennial and I have kids who are gen alpha and I still vividly remember dial up Internet and logging on to aim chat rooms with my friends. So it's just, it's something that, you know, I feel like has grown exponentially since then. And so it behooves us not to stay with the times and know what's happening out there now. So let's actually dive into the major online risks that you see on social across the board. I know we all know it, we know the stats, but I want to hear from you firsthand what you're seeing out there.
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Jacqueline Bosher
Sure. So this dates back to my time at Microsoft as well. As I said, I call, I refer to these issues as the parade of horribles. And there are various gradations of risks that are out there. So we could start with something like unwanted contact. Okay, I don't know this person. How did this person reach out to me? Who are they? And of course you have the opportunity to block them, mute them, delete them, whatever the case is. So it could start with something like unwanted contact, but it could progress to different types of content that one could experience and one could come into contact with. It could go into something like the behaviors and the, and the conduct that's taking place between and among folks online. So there's bullying, there's harassment, there is some of the most egregious harms, as I mentioned before, terrorism, recruitment, to terrorist activities and violent extremist causes. There is child sexual exploitation and abuse content and then conduct type of activities like financial extortion which has just come on stream in the last few years. And people can be exposed to suicide and self harm and self injury content. It's a range of things. I would encourage your, your users, Kanika to have a look at some research that we do on an annual basis at Snap. I started something similar at Microsoft probably back in the 2010, 2012 timeframe and I've built on it as my career has progressed and I' adapted it for wherever I've worked at Snap. For the past now four years we have conducted research into digital well being among teens and young adults. So 13 to 24 year olds. We release the full findings of this study every year on International Safer Internet Day and that's coming up on February 10th this year. So the research actually yields an index in six countries of digital well being among Generation Z. So we interview and we poll teens ages 13 to 17 in six countries as well as 18 to 24 year olds as well as parents in those six countries that have teens between 13 and 19. And we ask them about the risks that they have been exposed to over the course of the prior three months and sometimes over a lifetime as well. Because some of these risks are not particularly common, which is a good thing. And we gauge their risk exposure year over year. And one thing that I want to flag is we're here mostly talking about minor aged youth and that's terrific. We have to pay them special attention. They are a particularly vulnerable population. But Kanika, I want your audience to realize that those younger teens that might have older teens or even young adults as siblings, they are actually more exposed to risk than the teens year over year. Our research has shown that 18 to 24 year olds are experiencing risk at a higher incidence level than the 13 to 17 year olds. And this research, mind you, I really want to emphasize this point. This is no particular footprint focus on Snapchat. This is all platforms, all services, all devices in six countries. Australia, France, Germany, India, the UK and of course the US Yeah, that's, that's excellent.
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Kanika Chadha Gupta
I think it's. Where is this available? How could we see the data on the digital well being?
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Jacqueline Bosher
You can just search for digital Snap Digital well Being or Digital well Being Index. And it's available at our, our, at our Snap Safety Hub.
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Kanika Chadha Gupta
Okay. Yes, we will definitely include the website for our viewers, please. Yeah, and I think that's what the trepidation is that you know, parents feel that like, okay, it's like the wild, wild west and it's a really cruel world. And so we need to protect our kids from being, you know, exposed to all of this, this. But I would say they will find a way regardless, you know, even if, you know, with my kids, I know they don't have smartphones as yet, but when my husband and I feel that our kids are ready for smartphones, we know that they're going to be having exchanges with their friends and be exposed to things that we wouldn't want them to be. So for us, it's all about the protection. And you have mentioned this in a previous interview. To be forewarned is to be forearmed. And so I want to focus on the problem solving part of this interview. Especially for those who have teens who are already on snap. This is what you need to know as a parent. This is really the goal here. So SNAP launched the Qies in 2025 and it's a digital safety course for teens and families. I took the course and I was just amazed. I found it to be really eye opening and engaging. And I appreciate that it was teens who walk us through all the materials and they're sharing their own personal stories via video and audio. And so I know that, you know, when my kids are ready and they do the keys with me, they're going to feel like a certain kinship with the peers who are speaking to them. So I think that was a really, really nice touch. Tell us more about the keys and how it got started.
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Jacqueline Bosher
Sure. It, it was a labor of love and it has been in the process for quite a number of months, years even, because we wanted to make sure that we got it right. I call it an interactive online safety learning program that is designed specifically for teens and their parents. And we would ideally like as many teens as possible to take it alongside their parents, alongside a caregiver, alongside a trusted adult so that they can again have those sensitive, meaningful conversations right there in, during the course. So let me say this, there's a lot of these kinds of courses out there. I grew up at Microsoft in awareness raising, as I said, and education. This is different. This is unique because it is confronting head on some of the most serious risks that young people can face online. And here I'm talking about cyberbullying and harassment, maybe one of the lesser ones by comparison. But there is considerable risk exposure when we're talking about them sharing nudes and intimate imagery, financial extortion, as I mentioned, and illicit drug activity. So that's just a small collection of issues that we've chosen to focus on in this first iteration. There are other more sensitive topics that we can also add and I hope that we will continue to add new modules going forward. But the QIES is divided basically into two parts. The first one is all about those risks and we take what I would like to believe is a 360 degree view of analyzing that risk and explaining to them, as you mentioned, Kanika, in a video format, in an audio lesson with some knowledge check questions, some reflections so that teens can really engage with the content and pause. What we are trying to instill here is critical thinking. I think sometimes, maybe even in our highly digitized world we get a little lax and we just kind of take things for granted. We take things at face value. We want to ignite critical thinking in teens brains. That's why we've called it the Keys, because it's actually based on driver's education where for generations teens have been learning how to drive in the classroom and behind the wheel and the keys to the car at least the old fashioned way before we had push to start. Right, right. That's what fires up the engine and we want to fire up that critical thinking in teens brains. So first part, all about the risks. Second part, really focus more on Snapchat and the tools and the resources and the materials that we have available in app at the ready for them should they encounter any of these risks or other things online that might make them feel uncomfortable. But you don't have to be a Snapchat user to take the course. You don't have to be a Snapchat user to get the benefit of this learning. And I as I said on LinkedIn, even the most seasonal trust and safety professionals at companies I think could get some little nugget, some little piece of information that they might be able to learn from the QIES as well. And we are wide open to feedback and inputs. We want to continue to make it better, continue to improve upon it. It is a global link, it's thekeys.snapchat.com but I want to be very clear that the information right now in its current form is for US users. So the resources, the other partners that engaged with to inform the content, to inform the scenarios, they are all based in the US but we are going to be launching other versions, other iterations for other parts of the world as well.
- [33:38]
Kanika Chadha Gupta
That's excellent. I want to actually have you share some of the nuggets that we would get from the keys. You know in this interview today. So you mentioned at the top, cyberbullying, 46% of teens admit that they have been bullied or harassed online. And so in the Keys, when you talk about bullying and harassment, there's a team named Jeremy who breaks down what this means and I love how he shares. Are you posting a mean comment? Have you done any name calling or left people out of a group chat or shamed anyone on anonymous account? Sure, you know people are going to raise their hand when they're on the receiving end, but if they're the ones doing it, I think it's important to call that out too. And then he goes on to share how you can block and report 1.
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Commercial Narrator
Block and report Many platforms offer options to block other users and report messages or accounts.
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Kanika Chadha Gupta
Seek guidance from an adult and escalate any kind of bullying or harassment charge to the police because it can lead to self harm and suicide and has that's all the cases that we see on the news.
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Commercial Narrator
Seek guidance from a trusted adult. Reach out for help from a parent, aunt or uncle, teacher, cousin or friend. 3 Escalate the situation. If it feels serious, serious threats should be escalated to your school or the police.
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Kanika Chadha Gupta
So let's talk about that. How do we actually block and report someone and deal with when you know a child is online and on snap particularly and has either seen some bullying or you know is is victim to
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Jacqueline Bosher
it, let's look at the array of actors in that scenario. There is the target, don't necessarily want to call anyone a victim. There is the target for bullying. There is the person who is exhibiting bullying behaviors. Don't necessarily want to call them a bully. Don't want that label to apply for life. And there are the people who are the bystanders, those who are witnessing it potentially. We want them to be upstanders. We want the target to come forward and report to us. We want them to be able to have that ability to block those who are exhibiting bullying behaviors. And we want the bystanders, the upstanders to come forward as well and tell us what's going on. All of this is very easily done in our app. Every app is going to be different. But know how to use those blocking tools, know how to use those reporting tools. When you report to Snapchat, your report goes to our trust and safety teams. They operate 247 around the clock and around the globe to address all concerns. You might not even know that abuse is taking place and it doesn't have to rise to the level of abuse teens Kanika they refer to it as, oh, it's just drama. Oh, it's just drama. No, it can be offensive, it can be hurtful, it can be harmful. And we want to know about it because we want to be able to take action because it is against our policies, it is against the rules of operating on Snapchat. But let's make sure that we're always looking at the full panoply of the actors involved in this. And everyone has a role to play. Everyone has a role to play in reporting, in stepping up, if it is safe and prudent to do so.
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Guest Speaker (Teen Voices)
Yes.
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Kanika Chadha Gupta
Okay, now let's talk about intimate messages and nudes. Crystal walks us through that.
- [37:16]
Guest Speaker (Teen Voices)
Let's break down what that really means and talk honestly about nudes. If someone asks you to send an image you are uncomfortable with, even if they are a trusted romantic partner or they say, don't worry, I won't share it, this does not eliminate the risk. If you are under 18, it is actually illegal to share any intimate photos of yourself or anyone else who is under 18 or with anyone. It doesn't matter if the recipient is also under 18 or if they're an adult or if it is just a meme or joke.
- [37:43]
Kanika Chadha Gupta
And in 2024, 17% of 13 to 24 year olds shared intimate images and 58% of them said that they were then re shared without their consent. So it's kind of like you're going down a slippery slope when you share an intimate image. Now tell us what a teen can do to get something taken down. They sent an image by mistake. Emily shares this in her story. And that ex boyfriend or whomever shared it with a bunch of other people, they can take a screenshot from another device. What can she do because she feels too embarrassed to go to her parents.
- [38:28]
Jacqueline Bosher
So the wonderful thing about this is is there is a program available to them that is actually outside and it compasses all platforms and all services. It is called Take it down. Now, don't confuse it with the current law that's in the United States, also called Take it down. This program by the national center for Missing and Exploited Children is a way for teens. If they have a copy of that image, they do what we call hash the image. They assign it a unique digital signature. They don't have to share that image with anyone. No one sees the image. Necmec, the national center for Missing and Exploited Children, compiles a database of these unique digital signatures so that participating platforms like us at Snapchat can look for duplicates on our service of that image and, and take them down. So it's take it down, look for it, search for it online. That avenue is available to young people. You of course can always report to the immediate platform as well. If something has gotten away from you on Snapchat you can report that to us and we will address it. But where you will get the most coverage and pulling down across platforms and services if you go through, through take it down. There's a similar service for others in other parts of the world called Report Remove. It's their very, very similar programs. I can't emphasize them enough. Snap again participates in all of them. We want to have all of the resources and assets available to us that we can avail ourselves of to be able to help our users. But the baseline point here Kanika is you really, really need to think twice, three times, four times before engaging in this kind of behavior. The stats that you cited come from our digital well being research where everyone, so many people have told us that as soon as I, as I sent it, it got away from me. It was then shared by others. It was shared and reshared. I don't want to do that. You know, know five, ten year ago messaging and say nothing. You know, once it's online, it's always online. You'll never get it back. No, because now there are programs like it. Take it down and report Remove where you do have an option there. The, the option is to pursue those avenues. But again think twice, think three times, think four times. Is this someone that you can really trust? Just think carefully.
- [41:07]
Kanika Chadha Gupta
Yes, yes. And I wanted to just add to that because something I'm, I'm going to really drive home with my kids is the Internet is forever. So never, never share intimate images on your phone ever. That, that's what, that those are the family values that we're gonna definitely.
- [41:26]
Jacqueline Bosher
There you go. And it comes down to family values. But what I do want to say is that even if it does happen and we don't want it to happen and we're going to take every precaution that it doesn't happen, it's not the end of the world.
- [41:38]
Commercial Narrator
World.
- [41:39]
Kanika Chadha Gupta
Right.
- [41:39]
Jacqueline Bosher
We cannot be leading young people down a path to that ultimate sacrifice because they think that there is no recourse, that they, they have no other option. They do. We can't, we can't be sharing that kind of, that kind of guidance.
- [41:52]
Kanika Chadha Gupta
That's true. That's true. And now about grooming and you know those who get to kind of lurk in apps like this, who are sexual predators and pedophiles. It says 8% of tweens and 10% of teens encountered predatory behavior and high risk of sexual exploitation. So how do we protect, you know, our kids from that in an app
- [42:23]
Jacqueline Bosher
like this here I would turn to family center for parents. I would also let you know that we have have proactive and reactive measures that we use to identify bad actors across a host of topics including grooming, financial sextortion, sextortion for sexual purposes. And we are doing what we can to identify those accounts, pull them down so that they don't have the ability to contact others. But in the, in the sense of family center, this is where parents and trusted adults can get involved and have a teens back on Snapchat so that they can see who they are involved with with. And that list of friends again is going to say who is this? Who are you speaking to? Where do you know this person from? And we've just come out with some new additions and enhancements to family center that will give parents and caregivers even more insight into who these friends are. I would also say that we take a very expansive view of family. So it's not necessarily a parent that has to be connected with a teen on family Center. It could be be maybe an aunt, maybe an uncle, maybe a cousin, maybe an older sibling. Not every parent is very familiar with Snapchat and we would very much like them to get involved but if they might be more comfortable with someone else having that role. And I would also say that up until just a few months ago, it used to be someone 25 that would be eligible to have a teens back on Snapchat. We've now reduced that to the age of 18 because we've gotten feedback from our safety advisory board members and others to say, look, I want this to be a cousin. Look, I want this to be an older sibling. Can we make it a younger and and lower age? So in terms of what we are we're now offering on family center is something that we're referring to internally, kind of an internal code name if you will, as trust signals. But I want your viewers to realize that these are like little notations next to the teens friends in the full friends list or the new friends list that's going to help parents and caregivers determine how their teen might be related to this particular Snapchat friend. And there are three such trust signals that we are working with and offering right now. First one is mutual friends. Pretty self explanatory. It shows that the person Listed and the teen know some of the same people, they have some of the same friends in college common. Another one is in the contact book. So this shows that the teen has this person's phone number saved in their device contacts and that could be an indicator of a relationship in the physical world. And then the third one is community. Community shows that the listed person has joined a community like a high school community or a college community. This can be a strong signal that the person goes to a particular school because they would have had to have had their identity verified using the school email address. So these are some more insights that parents and caregivers can glean through Family center and this new set of enhancements that we've, we've just launched. So I would really encourage them to do that. And if I may just to slip in one more enhancement that's coming with Family center is time spent visibility. So we've heard many times over from many parents, from caregivers, from our safety advisory board, from our teen Council, which we haven't yet talked about, a whole host of individuals that they would like to know more about time spent. So with this feature we're offering parents insight into their teens time spent on what we refer to the five tabs of Snapchat on each of those five tabs. So we've got camera, chat, map and then stories and spotlight together again over the course of the last seven days which is kind of that operative time frame for Family Center.
- [46:27]
Kanika Chadha Gupta
That's excellent. And you actually answered one of my questions that if your teen has, let's say 200 friends, how are you going to be able to sift through all of them and know which ones are actually suspect? But that enhancement is going to help with that.
- [46:41]
Jacqueline Bosher
Exactly.
- [46:42]
Kanika Chadha Gupta
That's great.
- [46:42]
Jacqueline Bosher
That's great.
- [46:43]
Kanika Chadha Gupta
Okay, you mentioned sextortion and I want you to touch on this because again, parents might not be aware of what this new buzzword is and what actually happens here. So 13 to 18 year old boys are actually targets oftentimes. And I want you to explain how it all unfolds because it's really jarring.
- [47:09]
Jacqueline Bosher
It is a very concerning scenario, but it is a reality and it's out there. And we, as you said Kanika, we need to be aware of it. Parents need to be aware of it so that they can help their teens be on top of it and know what to expect. The keys will help. There's a specific module with respect to financial sextortion, but in, in a nutshell, typically a predator will go off to a more Broadcast style platform and see that someone is the captain of the football team. Someone is a very popular individual in his school or her school. It can happen to females as well. But as you note, young men are a particular target. So they, they friend this person on this particular app and then they might call them over to a more private messaging app that could be Snapchat, that could be a host of other apps as well. And they ask them to engage in certain conduct. They are trying to get them to share a compromising photo or video and then they go back to the more broadcast style app and they threaten the, the target with exposure to all their friends, all their family members with this video, with this photo, unless they meet certain demands. And those demands are typically financial extortion. They want gift cards, they want money, they want something wired to them them, something of value. And this is really all about a hustle. All right? They're not concerned with the content. They're not concerned with the individual, him or herself. They are concerned with getting access to money. Gift cards, something of value. It's, it's, it's a hustle and an aggressive one at that. There are very harsh tactics that are taken, meaning the perpetrator will start a countdown, click clock and say, you have X amount of time to get me this money. Do not give the money. Do not meet these demands. Block this individual. Report them to the platform, report them to local law enforcement, reach out to a parent, reach out to a trusted adult, someone who can help you. This is not the end of the world. Even if the teen has shared the content, we hope that that's not the case. Identify it and know it for what it is. They are going to present as someone whom they are not. Not if it's the captain of the football team that they're after. They're going to present as the cheerleader from another nearby school who's blonde and blue eyed and beautiful and wants to have some kind of a relationship with them. If it's too good to be true, it probably is. If you just meet someone, just to think about it in practical terms, you just meet someone, someone reaches out to you on an app, in 15 seconds they're asking you for a new. Is that how relationships develop? I don't think so. Based on our family values. That's not the way relationships develop. That's not the way relationships developed when I was younger and I can tell Kanika from your family values. That's what you're going to teach your kids. That's not the way things Transpire again. Critical thinking, resilience, analytical thinking, questioning. This is what we have to bring into the conversation and bring into everyday life of our young people.
- [50:31]
Kanika Chadha Gupta
Yes, yes, yes, yes. And it doesn't matter how young they are. I want them to be so savvy and so street smart that they don't get duped.
- [50:39]
Jacqueline Bosher
That's right. A healthy dose of common sense and critical thinking. Just step back. You know, we, we always used to say that that phrase, don't just stand there, do something. In this sense, Kanika, the rule of the road is don't just do something, stand there.
- [50:56]
Commercial Narrator
Yes.
- [50:57]
Jacqueline Bosher
Flip it on its head.
- [50:59]
Kanika Chadha Gupta
Exactly. So one other topic that was shared on the Keys that again, I found to be so eye opening was on illicit drugs and fentanyl poisoning. Christian explains that fentanyl cannot be seen or smelled. And when it's laced on some other type of drug, even a prescription drug drug, it has no taste. And just 2 milligrams, which is 5 to 10 grains of salt, is enough to kill a person. So I was completely shocked. And again, I think it's something that parents need to be well informed on and vigilant about and we need to tell our teens that, you know, there's a, a scenario on there where James says that, you know, I was, I ran out of my Xanax and a friend was saying that he would sell some to me for 20 bucks and I could just, you know, easy peasy, get it without having to go to the drugstore and wait for the prescription and all of that. And why we should not go that route. And so, yeah, break that down for us, please. Keys.
- [52:16]
Jacqueline Bosher
Exactly. The scenario that you're referring to in the Keys is, oh, he doesn't want to go through the hassle of telling his mom that he's run out and she's got to call his doctor and refill the prescription and then go to the pharmacy. All these steps. Oh, I could just get it online from such and such a person. Absolutely not. 100%. No. Never. No how. No way. This is all about you do not accept prescription drugs if they are not. Not prescribed to you by your medical professional and they are not fulfilled by a legitimate pharmacy. Never attempt to purchase any kind of prescription medication online. These are counterfeit pills, as you said, Kanika, they are laced with fentanyl, the smallest dose of which can kill a person. And this is just shocking and mindboggling. But this is where we are today. You cannot go and for this kind of product online if you are someone and it's not like, oh, I'm. I'm really stressed. I need something. No, there's got to be other ways. There's got to be other coping mechanisms. There's got to be formal medical attention for your particular situation. Use your parents, leverage your parents, leverage your medical professionals. Do not go looking for drugs online. Never. No way, no how. Because you don't know what's out there. Unless it was prescribed to you by your physician, by your medical. Medical professional, and it was fulfilled by a registered, licensed pharmacist, you do not know what is in that pill. And this is why people are dying a hundred thousand in a year in the United States from fentanyl poisoning. This is not an overdose. So many of these people didn't know what they were taking because they were taking something that they thought was one thing and was wildly something else.
- [54:09]
Kanika Chadha Gupta
My gosh. Right. And if you're involved in something like this, there is a Good Samaritan law to protect you. So let's say you were, you know, an accomplice or complicit in the sale of this. You could still report it. There's a website for that. Dopa, GE Backslash. Good dash, Sam. So the Good Samaritan Law. And that will still protect you because, you know, if something were like this were to be happening again, it behooves us to not. Not report who was involved a couple of years ago.
- [54:44]
Jacqueline Bosher
I just want your listeners to know and they can go and look for this material as well. SNAP sponsored a program and a campaign by the Ad Council that takes on a lot of these types of issues with campaigns and information and awareness raising. They put together a series of videos called the Real Deal on fentanyl. And this was crazy, but it's wild to see and it's impressive to see. See, they had formal fentanyl dealers going into schools and telling them about what they would do. They would get a series of pills to sell. They don't know which ones are laced with fentanyl and which ones are not. And they'd be like, I don't know who got that pill. I don't know if somebody died. And they are reformed now and they're taking back their lives. Right? And so many of those young people had no idea that this was actually taking place. And they said to. To us on. On video in these ads. More kids need to know. And it's so. Right. More kids need to know.
- [55:45]
Kanika Chadha Gupta
Yes, yes. And, you know, the teens that we saw in the Keys and, you know, are also involved in the Family Center. They're part of a council. Tell us about that and how, you know, maybe teens around the country would want to learn more and get involved themselves ourselves.
- [56:03]
Jacqueline Bosher
Excellent. And you're bringing it up at a terrific time. You mentioned Jeremy in the bullying and harassment video of the Keys. He was one of the members of our inaugural, what we call our Council for Digital well Being. We don't have teen in the headline because we've been told if you want teens to apply to a program, you don't put. You don't put teen in the name of the name of the program. So it's our council, our Council for Digital well Being. We had our inaugural council launched here in the U.S. u.S. Two years ago, two years ago this month. And we chose 18 teens from 12 U.S. states to really share with us what they're doing online and how they're finding how they're faring online. The success of that program, which was really just a pilot, led to a sister council now in Australia and a sister council now across Europe, including the U.K. we're going to sunset those other two active councils this year, but we are getting ready to launch our application process for our second cohort here in the United States. And we are eager to get that message out there so that we have some great applications from some terrific teens so that we could again pull together a diverse set of youth that we can hear from about new topics in the online world, including AI. We have a specific question in our application this time about their use of AI, generative AI specifically.
- [57:25]
Kanika Chadha Gupta
That's excellent. Okay, let's chat a bit about legislation and, and policy. I want to bring up Australia's new social media minimum age or the SMMA law is for those under 16 and they are actually precluded from, from social media. And I know you shared a bit about this on, on LinkedIn. So what are your thoughts on. On this ruling in, in that country?
- [57:57]
Jacqueline Bosher
I think it is. We're going to wait and see what happens with it, I think at the end of the day. But obviously we're not in favor of this kind of a posture. We want to be able to bring the transformational power of technology to young people age 13 above on Snapchat, and I'm sure other platforms would say the same. So it remains to be seen if this is actually going to effectuate the kind of responsibility results that Australia wants. As I mentioned on LinkedIn, I don't think we need the government to get involved. We talked earlier on Kanika about family values, family needs and Family resources. There's nothing precluding a parent right now by saying you know what, you can't have Snapchat, you're 13, I know you just turned 13 but you can't have Snapchat. Nothing magical happens when a teenager turns 13. They're, they're not wholly different from when they were agency when they were 12 and 364 days, right. So parents can say, you know what, maybe my child isn't the most mature 13 year old. Maybe they're not the most mature 14 or 15 year old and maybe they're a very mature 13 year old. It really depends on the family unit it and their values and their assessment. There's nothing precluding parents right now from saying sorry, no Snapchat till you're 15, no Snapchat till you're 17, whatever the case may be. But when we bring the government into it and we bring in the laws and the, and the rigor, it, it's really cutting off those who would really be benefiting from this. I fear in Australia for those teens who were like 15 teen who've probably had these apps and these platforms for two plus years, they've got memories, they've got friends, they've got social circles, they've got connections and now they're cut off from that and they have to find some other way and they have to wait it out a year before they're re eligible again. And from an operational perspective we have to preserve all of that for that teen because we don't want them to lose all their memories, everything that they've accumulated on the app all this time and we have to be ready to reinstate it when in fact they turn 16. 16. So I think yes, you're probably saving and you're probably protecting some measure of society but you're also probably doing significant harm to other parts of that same demographic. And these kids are going to find a way anyway. They're going to find a workaround, they're going to find their way to other less safe parts of the web. Let's be clear, there's nothing safe in life. There's no absolute state of being as safe online, offline or any, anywhere. But we have. It's all about mitigating risk and reducing harm. That's what we always want to do. I'm more in favor of education, awareness raising, resilience building everyone, that whole of society approach getting involved to help protect young people. Including platforms. Platforms take taking a leading role but the outright ban and the preclusion and the stifling. We're going to wait and see.
- [61:08]
Kanika Chadha Gupta
Yes. Okay. One, you know, running theme that I feel from this interview, that I feel really hopeful and inspired by, is the fact that we're having this conversation in the first place. I am so glad and I feel so fortunate to be able to have this access, to have this exchange with you. And, you know, growing up, I am South Asian, I'm Indian American, and you know, we never had any of these conversations at the dinner table. Everything was taboo from puberty to sex, you name it. So to be able to have this open dialogue is, is just really wonderful. And I'm excited to be able to cycle break for my kids so that they know that I'm the safe space. And I wanted you to share, you know, how parents can spark these conversations with their tweens and their teens. Because again, knowledge is the power. We can't just send them off and hope for the best. So, yeah, how can we have these conversations in an organic way that's not awkward for the parent? I know that's why my parents didn't go there. And then it's also not uncomfortable for the kids.
- [62:29]
Jacqueline Bosher
Sure. I think a couple of touchstones would be, first of all, be open and be curious and make sure you understand that there's probably a lot that you don't know, and that's okay. I always try to deliver an empowering message to parents, which is, okay, you might not get all the apps, you might not get all the technology. These things were certainly not in play when I, when I, I was a teen. The teens are going to have that intelligence factor in spades. But the parents, what do you have? You've got the wisdom. And there is a difference between intelligence and wisdom. You can look at that friend's list on Family center and again, say, who is Kanika? Do I know her? Is she in your class? You can ask those questions and you can identify risk, potential risk, because you've been around the block, you've lived, you've experienced life, and you can help them again build those critical thinking skills, be a little bit more inquisitive, not be quite so trusting. Of course we want our kids to be trusting. We want them to be loving, trusting, good human beings. But that's not to say that they don't question. Give them the ability to question and you can question them, not in a threatening way, in a non punitive way. Having that conversation, having that open dialogue. And I really would like to say suspend judgment. Even if a teen has come to you having done something that they regret that they are very uncomfortable with. Try as you might to suspend judgment and just tackle the problem together. Contact local law enforcement, contact the platform, do whatever is within within the necessary realms of whatever has transpired. But do do it together. Show them that you're with them. You're going to have their back. You're not going to shun them, shame them, embarrass them, none of the above. But it's all about that open dialogue which I can tell you you are trying to foster. Which is wonderful.
- [64:33]
Kanika Chadha Gupta
Yes, absolutely. And where can we find and follow you and learn more about the resources you mentioned through Snapchat?
- [64:42]
Jacqueline Bosher
We have a blog called called Snap's Safety and Impact Blog and I post there quite frequently. You can also follow me on LinkedIn as well and I would love to have another conversation should the opportunity arise and bring you more up to date on some things.
- [64:58]
Kanika Chadha Gupta
Oh we would love that. Jacqueline. Thanks so much for your insights and you know, helping us do the needful. As parents, we are navigating this digital world together and I know I've personally learned a ton from you. Thank you so much for joining me today.
- [65:14]
Jacqueline Bosher
Thank you so much for having me.
- [65:17]
Kanika Chadha Gupta
Thanks for listening to this episode of that's Total Momsense. You can listen to the audio version wherever you get your podcasts. Just search for that's Total Momsense. You can learn more about my guests by logging on to www.thatstotalmomsense.com. be sure to follow me on Instagram or where I'm most active on social media. My handle is Anikachadha Gupta and if you have ideas for show topics or guests you can't wait to have on the show, write to me@thatstotalmomsensemail.com and lastly, please rate, review and subscribe to that Total momsense. If you haven't already. Thanks for being in my tribe.
- [66:01]
Commercial Narrator
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- [66:30]
Kaylee Garcia
style, every home hello and welcome to Newbies, the podcast created for new moms navigating the first year of motherhood. Each episode is a safe and supportive space where we talk honestly about postpartum recovery, newborn care, breastfeeding, sleepless nights, mental health, identity shifts, and all the moments nobody fully prepares you for. I'm your host, Kaylee Garcia, and as a new mom myself, I know firsthand how emotional and life changing the season can be. That's why Newbies is your go to Podcast podcast. It's to bring moms together through real conversations, shared experiences, practical advice and reassurance that you're not the only one feeling this way. On the show, you'll hear candid stories from fellow moms, expert insights, tips for navigating postpartum life, and conversations about everything. Subscribe to Newbies for New Episodes every Thursday and if you want even more support, join our Patreon where you can listen to episodes early and ad free and be a part of our growing community of moms.