B (2:46)

Yeah, absolutely. Well, thanks for asking. I started my career actually in 1979, believe it or not, as a teacher. So even though I was young myself, I just fell in love with young people. And I thought, if we're going to change the world, we got to go to the moldable human beings, not the ones that are wet and, you know, dry cement. We need to go to the wet cement. So Fast forward to 1983. I went on staff with John Maxwell and I really saw what. And of course, you know, John's a leadership development guru. I saw the difference that leader development would make. So I began to think, what if we get beyond just helping kids survive school or graduate high school? What if we got to the point where we said, no, no, no, no. We want to develop a new generation of leaders who know how to solve problems and serve people. So that became my focus. And in 2003, I started growing Leaders, a nonprofit that partners with schools and nonprofits and families and so forth, who are also focused on the next generation. So it's been a blast the last couple of dec. And what a thing.

A (3:54)

Because you have then been immersed as you're raising up these new leaders, you've been immersed in generational change.

B (4:01)

Yeah, yeah.

A (4:03)

One of the 35 books of yours that I read, which is absolutely incredible that there's 35, is called Generation Z unfiltered, facing nine hidden challenges of the Most Anxious population. And so many of the things in this book were relatable to me as a mom. And I think that it's very valuable to have your perspective as a person who has worked with young people for decades. What's changed and what is changing?

B (4:33)

Well, there are. There is a population of moms and dads out there that think, ah, kids are kids, teenagers are teenagers. Whenever they're born, it's all the same. There is a kernel of truth to that. Adolescents are going to go through a stage that's a little different in every generation. But I spotted nine challenges that 21st century kids are enduring that I didn't when I was a kid, for instance, I didn't grow up with a smartphone. I didn't even grow up with a cell phone. So I think we got ambushed along the way, us moms and dads and teachers for that matter. And so I wanted to create a bit of an encyclopedia where I outline here's the challenge. Here's the research. Now here's some practical things we can do to help them overcome this hurdle they've got to jump. That was my goal with this book.

A (5:21)

I learned so, so much. Tim, One of the things that I'd never heard really considered a little bit, people are talking about the failure to launch that type of thing. But you worded it by saying actually adolescence has stretched.

B (5:38)

Yeah. Truly.

A (5:39)

It used to maybe be kind of a short period of time. Like 13 to 18. Yeah. That's like how I felt my adolescence. Maybe 12.

B (5:46)

Yep.

A (5:47)

Know 12 to 18 and then you're out, you're, you're off doing adult things. You're saying it's expanding on both sides. Tell us about that.

B (5:56)

Okay. This is one of the most intriguing ideas to me. So I did another book, a sort of companion book to Gen Z Unfiltered called Artificial Maturity. Here's what I was noticing. Kids. Well, let me just put it in two ways. Kids are overexposed to information far earlier than they're ready these days. But they're underexposed to firsthand experiences later than they're ready. So let's do the first one. Overexposed information. Most of us realize, oh my gosh, Children, especially ones with portable devices, are consuming adult information and their brains are not ready. Oh my gosh, what are we doing here? So 95% of 4 year olds on tablets of some sort and Lord knows what they're consuming. But then the underexposed to first hand experiences. Ginny, you know this because we're so afraid for their safety, among other things. We're just a fearful batch of parents. We don't let them go outside. We don't let them skin their knee. We don't let them fall off their bike or climb the tree. And I'm perhaps exaggerating, but the point is our safety orientation, while it's understandable, prevents them from doing some risky things that naturally help them mature in a healthy way. My falling off a bike taught me a bunch back back in the day. Now, do I wish that for my children? Of course not. But I know that some things they've got to navigate and own for themselves. And if we continue through their middle school and high school years to be prescriptive in our leadership, telling them exactly what to do and don't do this, but do this, are they going to be ready for college and career? I don't think so. So that was the point behind this. Adolescents. Kids are entering adolescence now at eight or nine years old, getting on teen websites getting something pierced or tattooed. But then they're staying in adolescence well into their 20s. Jenny, I have lost count of the number of university deans that have said to me, 26 is the new 18. You know what we once expected? 18, you're a woman now you're a man. Now. Let's take responsibility, let's take initiative. It's now happening at 26. There was a survey taken in 2024 where young adults were asked, when does adulthood start? Do you know what age that it was? 27 years old. And I'm going, oh, no, we need you to begin before 27, please. We need your energy, your creativity. So all of this just leads me to say it's not a catastrophe, but it is something we've got to help them with and lead them better so that they're ready to become wonderful, contributing adults when it's time to be an adult.

A (8:35)

Whoa. This is a huge change. A huge change. Where as adolescence was this period of five or six years, you wrote it stretched to 15.

B (8:44)

Yeah.

A (8:45)

Adolescence begins at 10, 8, 9, and extends until 24. Some educators argue it continues to 26 or 28 due to the delay of emotional maturation. And it's interesting to me, Tim, what an interesting thing, because that piece of information that you just gave, this is extra, right? Because you. You wrote the book, and now it's 2024. But it's interesting that the kids view it differently. We had this experience just very recently where we were with this couple that was dating, and they're like, in their late 20s, early 30s. And I don't know, we were just kind of like, trying to nudge, you know, like, as you do when you're the old one, talking about, like, you know, family life is great, and we. We love having kids. And, you know, there's some challenges, but it's been really cool. And the. The guy in 29, he said, well, he's like, well, I'm still really young.

B (9:36)

Wow.

A (9:39)

Yeah, kind of. But, you know, like, I mean, we had several kids by then and were. So it was interesting. His own perspective.

B (9:49)

Yeah.

A (9:50)

Whoa. What are the ramifications of that?

B (9:53)

Well, the ramifications are a number. First of all, I think the season of time where they're going to be most energetic and most creative are the time between 18 and that age. What he is 29 years old. It's not that you're not creative after that or not energetic after that, but those are the prime years. In fact, you think about past generations, a hundred years ago, My gosh. Four year olds were doing age appropriate chores around the house. Nine year olds were doing tasks on the farm, 14 year olds were driving cars, 19 year olds were getting married and having children and. And some were fighting World War I. So I'm not saying we need to go back and do that. I'm just saying it's in them to be so much more than people that get lost on Instagram or Tick Tock. We should be expecting more because they have more in them. And that's what I'm really lobbying for. Let's believe the very best about our kids and not let them fall into that black hole of I'm not really grown up, I'm only, you know, 30. I think we need to do better.

A (10:54)

And it's interesting because you look at the ramifications in terms of mental health and this is clearly not really working. And you talk about how this is the generation of kids and teens that suffer from more mental health problems than any other generation of kids in American history. What's the tie in between, you know, an extended adolescence, a lack of maybe pushing into the things that kids used to, like driving and dating and all of those things? What's the connection between that and the mental health epidemic we're seeing with our kids?

B (11:28)

That's a loaded question, as you well know. So let me try to give you a Reader's Digest version to the answer. For me, Jenny, it goes back to some research that was done way back 70 years ago in 1954 by Dr. Julian Rotter at Ohio State University. He's the one that came up with a scale and an assessment, if you will, on internal locus of control or external locus of control. Now, listeners, you might remember psych class way back in college, he said, kids graduate from school eventually with either an internal or external locus of control. Here's the difference. If you're an internal locus of control, you've got the mindset. If it is to be, it's up to me. In other words, I need to be responsible for my life and my actions and my decisions. I need to own this. If your external locus of control, it's just the opposite. You're thinking someone out there needs to. We like to blame my teacher, my mom, my coach, my employer. In other words, you're looking outside for something to control my fate. Now, neither one are evil, and I think we'd all agree there is some external, some internal in our life. But here's what Dr. Rotter found nine years into his research. By the 1960s, he found that kids who mature into internal locus are measurably more successful in life. They make better decisions. They have more healthy families and children. They have, you know, better jobs. It's because they own it. Now here's what I would love listeners to catch. I think we unwittingly create external looks of control when we become very prescriptive in our leadership. Mama wants to take care of junior. Boy or girl? Don't forget your backpack. Don't forget the quiz on Friday. Don't forget your grandma's birthday. Don't forget the gym shorts. Don't forget the. And we mean well, but we're owning it. Our kids are conditioned to think, oh, mama, Mama, remind me. Mom will tell me. And while that's not a criminal act, it is a non helpful act if we want them to really own their life. So let me tell. I'm gonna brag on my wife. My wife and I saw this coming when our kids were younger. They're in their 30s now, but they were doing their laundry in middle school, which I don't think was brilliant, but when it's time to go to college, they weren't weeping at the washer and dryer. You know, they learned to drive their car on time. Kids today are wanting to delay getting their driver's license. So we wanted to do that. Slow graded preparation. When the stakes are low. I mean, the stakes are low. If you get the laundry wrong and you're 13, mom will help you and you know, blah, blah, blah. If we do this all for them, when they're children, they turn 25, 30, 35. Stakes are high now and they're just now learning this. I don't know, I may sound like an attorney making a case, but I just want to encourage moms and dads everywhere. Our job isn't just to make them happy, it's to make them ready. And too often we prepared the path for the child instead of the child for the path. So that's. I think we created that anxiety. Jenny, to answer your question, when we own something and we take it out of their control, think about it. Don't you get anxious when something's not in your control, somebody else is controlling? Of course you do. So it's a weird, paradoxical thing. They deserve to be taking ownership by 14, 15, 16, 17, rather than US thinking that love makes us do it for them.

A (15:00)

And you said this is a thing that was really eye opening. I put this in my notes. You said, yeah. And it made me think, like, nobody likes to have the, the control Be in the hands of others. Even if it's someone that's trustworthy or loves you or is very competent, you do. You just feel shaky and you have this sentence, really even this phrase. You're talking about the extinction of childlikeness with the extension of childishness. And so in this book, Generation Z Unfiltered, you're going through all sorts of things that parents, they need to know in order for their kids to flourish in the years to come. You had this question that I thought was super deep. Do kids want to remain children as adults because we did not give them a true childhood?

B (15:45)

Yeah. Yeah.

A (15:47)

Wow. I never thought of that.

B (15:49)

Yeah, I, I think sometimes they want to be kids at 29, like you said, still young. Well, they feel that way because so many times we've exposed them to adult information. They've had this stress filled life. Make the grade, make the team, make the cut. So I really want to lobby for when they're 5 and 6 and 7 years old. Let's let them be children. Let's let them be children so that they've got that under their belt and they're ready to be grown ups when it's time to be grown up. You just said that. But I just feel like that's, that's healthy and I don't know that we're always getting it right, helping them be healthy.

A (16:24)

It's a really deep question, Tim. And I think that when you're a parent in the throes of, of parenting a 12 year old or 4 year old, you don't know the long term ramifications. And that's why a book like yours is so important. Because you have been there on the front lines for decades and you see, you like I see the 27 year old who had their entire childhood structured for them and, and now like needs that. We need that period of growing up and they, and they didn't get it. And so it is now extending. I just thought, wow, what a question. Do they want to remain children as adults because we did not give them a true childhood, genuine childhood. You write with its freedom to play outside, the autonomy, the freedom to imagine what's going to fill your day, the control of personal time, what to think. All of that is evaporating. So wow, is that important? I'm switching to another thing. This book is filled and I'm kind of nervous about our time. I've got nine pages of notes and it, and this is the other thing, Tim. Like in my notes I make it read if it's really important and I want to make sure that we talk about it. And I was like, I printed your notes out and I was like this is mainly red. So I'm like there's a lot here. Who doesn't love the good things in life? Even though I enjoy a little luxury, it doesn't mean I can always afford it. Until I discovered Quince. Quince is my go to for when I'm trying to step up my luxury essentials game, but doing so at affordable prices. Quince offers a range of high quality items at prices within reach like 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters from $50 which I got and absolutely love. Washable silk tops and dresses, organic cotton sweaters and 14 karat gold jewelry. The best part? All Quint's Items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. By partnering directly with top factories, Quint cuts out the cost of the middleman and passes the savings on to us. And Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. I love that. One of my favorite things is the all black puffer jacket I got. It's super cute and most important, nice and warm for these cold winter days here in Michigan. Give yourself the luxury you deserve with quints. Go to quince.com outside for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com outside to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com outside My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big roas man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friend's still laugh at me to this day.

B (19:06)

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A (19:23)

Um, I think I just won my taxes. Yeah, I just switched to HR block.

B (19:28)

In about one minute.

A (19:29)

All I had to do was drag and drop last year's return into H and R block and bam. My information is automatically there so I don't have to go digging around for all my old papers to switch. Nope. Sounds like we just leveled up our tax game.

B (19:42)

Switching to H and R block is easy. Just drag and drop your last return. It's better with block.

A (19:50)

Here'S something. Never heard anyone talk about this before. Tim, human satisfaction is shifting. We are more and more content with a virtual experience instead of a real one. Oh, gosh, I had no idea. I mean, you kind of think it's happening just because we're, we're lazy. We're giving our kids devices, they're on devices at school. It's just sort of the culture, the climate, you know, maybe they're, there's no other option. We're in this. But you're saying it's actually shifting?

B (20:18)

Yeah.

A (20:19)

What we're satisfied with.

B (20:21)

Yeah, it's crazy. Jenny, I am meeting with young adults all the time. That would be high school, college, and young professionals. And I'm seeing they've just become satisfied with less than what you and I both know this is genuine. So let me tell you a quick story. When both of our children turn 12 and they're four years apart. So Bethany was first, then Jonathan. I took him on a daddy daughter and daddy son trip. And then that launched him into a rite of passage experience through their teen years where they were getting ready to become a woman and a man. Well, I'll never forget Jonathan's trip. I told him, buddy, you can pick anywhere in the world you want to go. And it suddenly dawned on me. Oh my gosh, I just gave him permission to pick Tokyo or Paris or whatever. Well, Ginny, believe it or not, he picked Minneapolis, Minnesota. Yes, he did. And if you wanna know why, this was way back, gosh, 20 years ago. But Mall of America, Camp Snoopy, there's a roller coaster in the mall. And plus he's a thespian, so there was some shows up there he wanted to see that he knew the director up. So we went up Friday, Saturday and Sunday. We had a bucket load of fun, had pillow fights, rolled the roller coaster, ate junk food. It was so fun. But he knew on the fourth day we were going to have some meaningful conversations and experiences. And he was a little scared because he knows me. And so he said, dad, what are we going to do on Monday? I said, jonathan, just relax. So here's what I did on that Monday of our four day weekend. I drove our rental car up to a parking lot out next to one of the 10,000 lakes up there near Minneapolis. And I parked the car and I said, jonathan, I want to trade places with you. He said, dad, what do you mean? I said, I want to trade places in this car. I'll sit on the passenger side, I want you to get behind the wheel and I want you to drive this car. Well, he's a rule keeper. He said, dad, that's. That's illegal. That's illegal. That's illegal. And I said, jonathan, we're not going to go out in the main road. We're just going to stay right here. But I want to see if you can handle this big machine. Well, he's very aware that he was 12, not 16. And so he go, this is what he said, dad, mom will not like this. Mom will not like this. And I said, jonathan, mom doesn't need to know. Anyway, we talk for at least 10 minutes, me trying to persuade him to get behind the wheel. We finally realized, this is my dad. I trust him. So he gets behind the wheel. Now, he can barely see above the dashboard, but he can. I explained the steering wheel and the ignition and the brake and the accelerator and the gear shift. And finally, after several minutes of training, he turns the car on. Well, Jenny, when a boy. I don't know what happens with a girl when a boy turns a car on. Oh, that felt good, you know, and next thing I know, he's back in the car. The next thing I know, he's doing everything he's seen me do. He's. He's back it up and parallel parking and diagonal parking and racing through the parking lot. He drove for probably 15 minutes, and I finally had him stop the car. The next thing I did was I said, let's trade places again. So he got back in the passenger seat and I said, jonathan, this is going to feel cheesy, but would you be honest with you? How'd you feel when you got beyond the wheel of this car? And he was honest. He said, dad, I panicked. I didn't think I could do it. And I said, what'd you just show me? And he said, I guess I showed you I could. I could do it. I said, jonathan, that's exactly how you're going to feel becoming a man. You're going to feel like you don't know what you're doing. I didn't either, but it was in you all the time. You drove this car and you were 12. And that started a conversation about what was about to happen in his life. I said, your body is going to be changing in the next few years. Your view of girls will be changing your view of your parents. We talked about the birds and the bees, but what was really fun was I kept going back to, you need to be a driver, not a passenger in your life. And it was about ownership, just like we were talking about the internal looks of control. But I used language he couldn't understand. Now you can imagine all through his teen years, I look at him and say, you're a driver or passenger. When he was making a decision on Friday night, you drive your passenger. And that's all I needed. He didn't need a lecture, he just needed a picture. What's really cool is I watched my boy really begin to mentally grasp responsibility. And it's not that he grew up overnight, but that launched him into a really cool middle school and high school years and he was ready for college when it was ready. But we need to provide those experiences. Not just talks or video games or videos, but real life experiences that help them, help them to launch.

A (25:00)

And you do talk about rites of passage. In fact, if you go down the rabbit trail of your books here, of which there are more than 35, there's going to be a lot of. There's a book called 12 Huge Mistakes Parents can avoid leading your kids to success in life. So all of these different. Marching off the map, the Pandemic Population, eight paradoxes of uncommon leaders. All of these different books are going to help you. You even have a free ebook on your website that is called the glass is still half full. How to lead Gen Z. That's for parents and coaches and for teachers. Talking about it was really powerful. You just said he didn't need a lecture, he just needed a picture. And that reminds me of your habitude. Habitudes. I said that? Right, right, Yep. Tell us about that.

B (25:45)

Yeah, so habitus began in our. At our dinner table. Oh gosh, 25 years ago. But it's become a bit of a curriculum for schools and families. Habitudes are images that form leadership habits and attitudes so drivers and passengers would be one of them. And that, that was a picture in the book. Rivers and floods is another one that's about focus. Floods are water that's not focused at all. In fact, they do damage. Rivers are focused. They flow in a direction. Well, I want to help my kids flow, not flood. Sometimes kids are five miles wide and one inch deep. So let's find your God given river in flow. So anyway, those are just a couple of examples. But once a week at dinner time on Monday night we had habitude night and we just had a little picture. And now there are books and digital curriculum that you can get a. It's just a little book. Each book has 13 pictures in it. But it starts a conversation about some life skill that I just believe. Well, I believe I wish I would have learned it when I was young and I. And I didn't. So that's my hope.

A (26:48)

People can find that@growingleaders.com make sure I put the link in the show notes so people can find that very easily. This stuck out to me. You were talking about four cardinal qualities of the adolescent mind, which I think you've written about in more than one book.

B (27:01)

Yeah.

A (27:02)

The four qualities are novelty seeking, social engagement, increased emotional intensity, and creative exploration. And I just had this thought of how social media has hijacked all four of those.

B (27:14)

Yeah, you're so right. I'm sorry to cut you off with my affirmation, but it's so true. I think what I said earlier is true. I think we got ambushed. We didn't know what social media would do as a masquerade of real life. It's not real. I mean, we're poking at each other on a screen and cyberbullying. But it's taken the place, unfortunately, of real life. And that's what I think we need to help kids get ready for. So Jonathan Haidt wrote a great book called the Anxious Generation. He says, and I love it, no phones before 13. Now, that sounds like an old grandpa there, but I think it's. He says the brain shouldn't be. He says no social media before 16. He says our brain development is not really ready for what's going on. And he believes no phones in the school. And. And again, he's not a grandpa. He's younger than I am. But his point is, let's expose them when they're ready. And sometimes we're delayed and sometimes we're ahead. Here's what's crazy to me. This is a generation of paradox, Jenny. They're biologically advanced. Kids are growing up and going through puberty and so forth sooner than before. And they're cognitively advanced. They're exposed to information. Oh, my gosh, way more. I didn't know what my son do at 13, but socially and emotionally, they're behind. So advanced in two categories, cognitively and biologically. Behind in two areas, socially and emotionally. And I think the social and emotional growth, that's what employers are looking for. Can you work well with a team? Can you communicate well? Can you lead well? And we feel like while reading and writing, arithmetic are all important, academics doesn't always translate to a fully mature graduate. We've got to teach those life skills. And really that's what you're about. Let's get them outside and let's have them experience life with tender care. But that's what we've got to do. Yeah.

A (29:09)

Hands on experiences. If people like Jonathan Haidt's book, they will love your book. Your book. There was a lot of parallels, like the extension of childishness. You know, he says we've moved from a, you know, a playback childhood to a phone based childhood. There's a lot of parallels there with. I felt like some really solid direction. That's how I felt like, what can I do as a parent? What can I do as a coach? It's in this book, Generation Z Unfiltered and the why. So I feel like if you like that book, you're gonna love this one. Like I said nine. I've got nine pages of notes here and they are all read. One of the things that you talk about. And sometimes I just feel like, Tim, like I ended up in a spot where things are more in line with this just happenstance. So for example, we spend time outside because I was a horrible mother inside. You know, I was just flailing and failing. And we went outside and the kids were happier and that was happenstance. And we have five kids. And so I would love to control everything. That would be my bent would be checking boxes and. But it is so chaotic here.

B (30:15)

Yeah, yeah.

A (30:16)

And your kid has to make their own lunch or they have to figure out their own thing because you just as a mom, you don't really have the capacity to like manage five other people. And that wouldn't be my initial.

B (30:28)

Yeah, yeah.

A (30:29)

I actually don't like that. It makes me feel a little uncomfortable.

B (30:32)

Yeah.

A (30:33)

We are in this age and you say like that's kind of how it used to be. I remember my grandmother, she didn't drive until she was in her 60s. So that means her four sons, they didn't do any extracurricular activities. My dad, except whatever he could walk to, you know, banned after school if he could walk home because there was no one that could drive him. And that's just how it was. I mean my mom talks about that. She was like everybody in her neighborhood growing up had one vehicle, the husband took it to work, got home at 5:30 or 6. And so no one was going to ballet and then piano and all of these things. So we are over functioning. That's the word that you use.

B (31:11)

Yeah.

A (31:12)

And overwhelmed. And this is causing us to. We're well intentioned, but we are turning out unready adults.

B (31:23)

Yeah.

A (31:23)

Oh, that's a good phrase. That's what we're turning out unready adults. This is really hard though, Tim, to Go against the grain because, well, the neighbor kid.

B (31:31)

Yep.

A (31:32)

And they're a national honor society. And what about college? And the world is rapidly changing. How do we break away from this cultural norm to fill, fill, fill with all of these different enrichment opportunities?

B (31:46)

I tried to parent by this single statement, the further out I can see into the future, the better the decision I make today for my child. So if it's for him or her just to be happy today, well, I'm going to give him the candy. I'm going to take them to this, that or the other. I'm going to do all the things and they're going to love me all through their childhood. I don't think that makes her a good dad. If I look at it in the future, and I think readiness for a job and for leadership, perhaps on a team and at a job, I think differently. So mamas that are listening and dads who are listening, here's what I would say. Don't think that when you don't do something for your child, it's punitive. Think development. Think development. Let's say the child is four years old and they don't know how to tie their shoe. Don't think. Well, it's punitive to make them tie their own. No, no, no, no. Think. I believe in my child. If indeed we do, I want to train them to tie that shoe. Not to get rid of something from my own agenda, but because I so believe in them. So I guess we need to ask ourselves, Jen, do we really believe in our kids? Answer that question. Do you really believe in your child? If so, I do want to get them ready to. To tie the shoe and to do the laundry and so forth and so on. And when we look at it as this is a gift, I've given them training rather than a punishment, I'm making them do that. Paradigm shift is going to help us be better parents. I just really, really believe it.

A (33:15)

Well, it's hard to believe in your child if you're always the one who takes control.

B (33:19)

Yeah.

A (33:19)

Because you've never had an opportunity to. And you talked about. I thought that these were really eye opening. Parents need to know that this is what's happening. You said, okay, here's an adult. They go in for a job interview and they say, thank you, but now my parents need to interview you to make sure you would be a good employer, a good boss for me or someone who's in college and says, hey, we paid for this class so I should have a better grade. And they're expecting that because their parents have given the money that that should affect their grade. Or there was another one where a mom calls someone at the college and says, would you please make sure my son wears his sweater today?

B (33:55)

Yeah.

A (33:56)

And so it's like we haven't given the kids a chance to show us that they can be trusted in. So how do we, this is a really loaded big question as well. How do we become less afraid?

B (34:10)

It's a great question. First of all, I think we need to know something. We are a fear based generation of people, period. Not just parents, but people because the 24, 7 news cycles who keep showing us the school shooting and keep showing us this and that and the other has happened. And even though it happened once, maybe in the news cycle, we hear it so often it feels like it's happening everywhere all the time. So I think we need to downsize and reality check how afraid we really should be. Some of the most recent research says that life is actually safer and safer for kids today than it was when I was growing up. Now you'd never know that by the news, but it's true. So that's, number one, know that it's really not as unsafe as we think it is. But secondly, if I focus myself not just as a loving dad or a loving mom, although that's job one, but I am a mentor. I put a mentor hat on when I'm with my children. When I drove in from work every night, I had four or five questions that I'd rehearsed in my mind as I pulled into the garage because I knew I wanted to have good conversation conversations and I'm not naturally good at that. So I had four or five questions I wanted to ask Bethany and then I wanted to ask Jonathan and then Jenny. You didn't ask for this, but I think this is a second cousin to what you ask about. I came up with a list of four or five things I wanted to do while my kids were under my roof that I felt like would get them ready. For instance, job one, do something scary. I think there's something that happens inside of a young person when they do something and there's no guarantee it's going to work out. It's a little bit scary. And it's not that I'm throwing them out in the freeway to play in traffic, but I remember doing some things that my mom and dad let me do that were scary and I came alive. I came alive when I did it. So there's something inside the soul of a human being, particularly when they're young that we need to do something scary. Well, think about if all I'm doing is trying to get to level four on the video game. That didn't qualify. It just doesn't. Number two, meet someone influential. I remember exposing both of my kids to some celebrities, some best selling authors, John Maxwell and others. And it was really fun because they got good at not being intimidated by someone that was very significant. And I believe everybody's significant. But it really meant something to meet someone that was kind of famous and to hold a conversation. Sometimes host a conversation with that person who's 35 years older than they are. So meet someone significant. Travel someplace new. This doesn't have to be terribly expensive. But go someplace that feels uncomfortable and unfamiliar for my kids. I took them to, believe it or not, to developing nations. We actually were helping with some refugees when they were very, very young. But two things happened. One, they really appreciated our middle class home, that was for sure. But number two, they saw, oh my gosh, this is uncomfortable. But I'm going to rise to the occasion. It's unpredictable. I don't know what's going to happen next. Oh my gosh, my kids came alive. I'll stop there because I'm taking up too much time. But I think moms and dads, let's introduce experiences to them that might be cheap or free, that just do something to the heart of our kids and make them go, I can tie my shoe, I can do my laundry, I can do these things because I've just proven by this experience mom gave me that I can.

A (37:50)

I mean, you should take all the time you want. We're here to listen to you. Well, and I think that it has to be said that that's going to help you as a parent as your kids get older because they will get older and they will leave. And you have to have some experience of letting go. It's a twofold process. It's for them and it's for you. You have this statement, American adults, top emotion regarding kids today is concern.

B (38:14)

Yeah, yeah.

A (38:16)

What did it used to be?

B (38:18)

Well, I don't know if I can give you that answer.

A (38:21)

And what might it have been like I'm thinking of, okay, like in a parent, let's say that was a parent in the 60s. Yeah, they're definitely top emotion. Was not concerned because kids would run amok. Right. They, yeah. My newest book is called until the Streetlights Come on. That it was like you would just go and you got to come back for dinner. Nobody knows where you Are, there's no gps. So it certainly wasn't concern, right?

B (38:44)

No, it was I want my kids happy or I'm excited for my children and their future. Look what's going on. This is going to be great. But when we did that survey, we partnered with, it was Growing Leaders and Harris Pole Interactive. We surveyed over 2,000 adults and we wanted to know what they thought about kids and what they felt emotionally about kids. Two out of every three adults said it was a negative emotion, not a positive emotion that they were feeling. Concern, fear, I'm anxious, I'm nervous for them, which could be seen as positive. But think about what it feels like to be young and be led by an adult that's just concerned for you. It doesn't feel like you believe in me, mom, you know, that sort of thing. And then almost 2 out of 3, 64% didn't think they were going to be ready when it was time to be ready for adulthood. And again, I want to go say, I want to say to moms and dad, go look in the mirror and find out why that is because that's up to us, not them. So I don't know if I'm sounding too harsh. Forgive me if I am.

A (39:50)

No, I think, well, I think it's truth. And, and there was a studies in the book about like, I think there was one about rats. It was like if you believe in the rat, it did better in the maze. If you believed in the kid, the iq, there was a difference in IQ level. So the beliefs. And I just thought that was such a huge statement if you look at it historically for kids whose parents were just less involved. I just had a conversation with my neighbor across the street at Halloween because I was back at my parents house and she would lock her kids out all summer. And so her top emotion was not concern, it was trust. And it was like those types of things actually enhanced the family because then there's all sorts of things to talk about. And one of the things that you wrote was fearful adults seek control. Our fears make us more prescriptive and more controlling with our young. And that that control is leading our kids to feel out of control about their futures. And then they're anxious. It's just this snowballing thing. And I would actually say, even with all the work that we do, I would probably say that one of my top emotions is also concern. And when I talk with my friends, I think everyone's like, are they going to, are they going to be able to find someone? Are they going to be able to find a job? Are they going to be able to support themselves? Are they, Am I doing enough? I mean, it is the pervasive vibe.

B (41:10)

Yeah, it really is. So, listeners, if you're going, yeah, that's me, well, you're not alone. It's, it's the, it's the common vibe today. Real quick story, though, about what my mom did for me that helped me feel ready. Her number one emotion wasn't fear, although there were fearful things going on when I was a kid. I remember as a teenager, I mentioned falling off a bike. I actually did have a bad bike accident, so bad that I, I was going down a hill. I went over the handlebars of my bike, tumbled down on the concrete. I was bleeding. There was the. Even a part of my muscle that was poking out of my side. It was, it was bad. So I walked the bike the rest of the way home. It was another three blocks. And I remember when my sister answered the door, opened the door, she kind of panicked. But I remember my mom coming to the door and she did not panic. I'm sure she was concerned, but she knew that if she got dramatic, I'd get dramatic. If she was panicking, I would panic. You know, you know how this goes. So she said, timothy. She called me Timothy, let's walk over here to the couch. I want you to lie down. And she looked at it and I'm sure inside she was going, oh, my gosh, my baby. But on the external, she was going, all right, we're going to get through this. Lisa, go get some bandages. And once you get Tim some water, he may be thirsty. You know, things like that. And what I love about my mom was she didn't get dramatic. She didn't get, she didn't treat it like it was trauma, even though to a degree. But you know what that did for me? I trusted her. I thought, well, if she's not overly scared, I don't need to be overly scared. And she saw me through it. So maybe, I don't know, maybe this is a parable for you today listeners. Let's give them a reflection of what they need to do. One of our habitudes, Jenny, I love. It's a new one. It's called the flight attendant factor. The flight attendant factor. Think about it. Where you're flying across the country on an airplane, if you go through a little turbulence, you grab your seat handles right away, right? But if it continues, do you know what you intuitively do? Look up at the flight attendant. Because, you know, if she's still laughing and joking and serving the diet Coke and just having a good, we must be okay parents. You're the flight attendant. Your kids are going to look to you to see what kind of response they should have. And I think if we're good flight attendants on this turbulent journey we're on sometimes and we don't go ballistic over a C on the report card or whatever, I think they're going to be better for it.

A (43:43)

Oh, it's so good. I liked this. And this is also in 12 huge mistakes parents Can Avoid. We risk too little, we rescue too quickly, we rave too easily, we reward too frequently. I mean, there is so, so much in this book and in your others. Let's talk about first hand experiences.

B (44:03)

Yeah.

A (44:04)

Because that's what we're having here. And we are all about firsthand experiences. And I love that your book included so much about play and risk. So kicking off with risk, preventing hurt today often leads to more harm tomorrow. In our effort to prevent hurt, we've accelerated harm. So you're talking about autonomy.

B (44:27)

Yeah.

A (44:27)

And I'm sorry, I have so many notes. I'm like, how do I narrow this down? Talk to us about risk. Let's start with Risk Deprivation Syndrome. Risk deprivation, yeah.

B (44:39)

We have unwittingly done this very often, not always to our children in the name of protection and safety and so forth. I would say mom and dad, don't just think, protect, think, prepare. Don't just think, prevent, think, prepare. If I can have that bias, of course I'm naturally going to love and protect my children. That's not going to go away. But if I'm thinking, how will this get them ready? Now I'm doing something well. So here's a good, I think a good example. Every I told you, every week we talked about a habitude when our kids are growing up. It was a picture that launched a conversation. And one night we happened to be talking about emotional intelligence. Yes, we were. Even when our kids were like 12 and 8. Well, our kids were just sure they had mastered EQ. You know, they were just sure they had mastered it. And of course my wife Pam and I looked at each other and thought, oh my gosh, no you haven't. So here's what we did. We decided to take it from just talking to doing. So. Pam and I had planned the next month a party at our house for our adult friends. We decided instead of just talking about emotional intelligence, we would have our kids practice EQ. So we had our kids at age 12 and 8 host that party. So Bethany and Jonathan learned to answer the door. Hi, Mrs. Smith, come on in. Have you met Mr. Johnson? Can I take your coat? Would you like some iced tea? Now, they stumbled through this at first, but they got, they got the reps in and they started being very good at host. And by the end of the night they're worn out because people skills are hard. Well, you can imagine that took emotional intelligence as a topic to a whole new level. And now they weren't so sure that they were brilliant at this and that Mr. Johnson was so unaware of his flaws, you know, or whatever it was. It was quite funny when we debriefed. But my point is this, do talk about things like this. Moms and dads, but let's do something. Now that wasn't scary, except that they were meeting adults and having to host them. But I mean, following that, we went down and together as a family and fed homeless people downtown Atlanta, Georgia. And it didn't smell good and it wasn't easy and it was hard and this was a little scary. Now we were with them, but I'm telling you, these experiences built their social muscles, their emotional muscles, dare I say their spiritual muscles to, to serve people and to say, even as a kid, I can do this. So, yeah, I just, I'm just a fan of these experiences spark engagement because it's not a lecture. And they spark growth just naturally because we grow when we do, not just when we hear.

A (47:21)

So good. I want to read this because I loved it. Too many rules can have an adverse effect on children. And this is from Grant Schofield.

B (47:29)

Yeah. In New Zealand.

A (47:30)

One of the quotes in your, in your book, the great paradox of sheltering is that it's more dangerous in the long run. Society's obsession with protecting kids ignores the benefits of risk taking. Children develop the frontal lobe of their brain when they take risks, meaning they work through the consequences. You can't teach them that. Right. You have to have them host the party. You have to have them do the thing.

B (47:50)

That's right.

A (47:50)

They have to learn risk on their own terms. It doesn't develop when watching tv. They have to take a risk. And you wrote. And this is true for all of us. Right. But we forget it. My personal experience tells me that failures, struggles, hardships and risk experiences have been my most tangible learning experiences. And yet we're trying to take those from kids.

B (48:10)

I know, it's, it's. We got, we got a bad report card, unfortunately. So that statement from Professor Grant Schofield was actually taken from a study he did with a primary school in New Zealand, Swanson Primary School. Let me tell you the story, listeners, because it's fascinating what he proved to be true. So his university, Schofield University was located right across the street from the equivalent of an elementary school. He was noticing on the playground they had a huge amount of adults supervising the playground, which is what we do these days. And they took away all the scary playground equipment. So no skateboards, no merry go round, no swinging tire from the tree, all that stuff. And it's, it makes sense based on the narrative we have today. Kids can break their arm. He walked over and asked the principal there, would you mind if we did an experiment with you about recess this next semester? And here's what they did. They reduced the teacher student ratio on that playground. They only had like three or four teachers rather than 20 teachers on the playground. Then they put that scary playground equipment back out there like it used to be. But they met with the children in an assembly. So it's like 300 kids. And they said, now kids, you're going to love this. We put this, you know, the playground equipment back out that you all loved and all kids clapped and there's not going to be as many adults out there. So kids, listen to us. You got to own this playground. Fourth graders, you got to take care of those second graders and third graders, you need to take care of those kindergarteners because they're going to need your help. They won't know how to do that merry go round. So you're going to, you need to own the playground because we're not going to own it. Well, the principal said day one was chaos, of course, but he said starting day two, he said, we saw those kids just start taking care of each other. They didn't need an adult because finally we said, we trust you, you can do this. And here's what they found out, which was really cool. They said bullying dropped among the students because they were looking out for each other rather than bullying each other. And student engagement in the classroom went up because they got their Wheaties out in the playground. The boys could actually be boys out there and the girls, little girls. So there were all kinds of pluses when they took that risky step as grown ups who ran the school. And that's why Grant Schofield wrote, there's benefits to risk taking. Too many rules can have an adverse effect. So I know this is counterintuitive, I realize that. But maybe, maybe, maybe these alpha generation children following Gen Z are going to be so ready to carry the ball when it's time for them to carry the ball as adults because we led them so well as children.

A (50:59)

Wow. The bullying thing is interesting too because bullying is often about control and we try and have all these programs to lessen bullying. But I've read in other places where they say, look, these kids have no control over their life and that's the one place they have control in these relationships. So, you know, then they have more control in their play. And that bullying decreases play is something that you talk about in this book quite a bit. It is not frivolous. Obviously this is such an important message for today's day and age. You have this phrase when over prescription becomes theft. Although over prescription and over prescriptive adults are well intentioned. Right. We're like taking up too much of their time. We don't realize that we are stealing from our kids.

B (51:43)

Yeah.

A (51:44)

Generation Z is growing up partially disabled by our theft.

B (51:48)

Yeah.

A (51:49)

Why do kids need to play and have some of their own time?

B (51:52)

Well, I believe they do because that's when they learn to make decisions and choices and oftentimes with low stakes, they make bad ones. But it doesn't ruin the world, okay? In fact, it doesn't even ruin their life. It might ruin their day, but not anything else. I'm going to use a very harsh statement. Please forgive me listeners if you think it's too harsh. But this really woke me up when I thought this thought, if I do over prescribe and overprotect, it's a mild form of child abuse in reverse because I'm not getting them ready. I'm actually preventing them from being ready. And so I want my kids to call me later. Well, I got a call from my daughter when she was 25, three years into her career and it was out of the blue, she was clear across the country working a job. And I said, hey sweetie, what's up today? And she goes, oh, I was just calling to say hi. And I said, well it's great to hear your voice, but anything on particular? She goes, just called to say thanks. And I said, well, every parent likes to hear thank you, but what for? She goes, oh, everything. And I go, well, there's got to be something. I was trying to drill down what prompted the call because she really doesn't call me as much as she calls her mom. Well, here's what she said, Jenny. She said, well, I guess the reason I'm calling is I look around this office and none of these 20 somethings know what they're doing. On a job. They're all on their phones. Their work ethic is horrible, and they're not ready for this task that they're doing. And I just got to thinking, dad, you and mom got me ready. And I just wanted to call and say thanks. I said, bethany, you made my year. You made my year. So, moms and dads, I would just say to you, if you want that kind of a call, I ruined a whole. I mean, I was not a perfect dad. Can we do another podcast? And I'll tell you all the things I did wrong, But I'm telling you, that was a golden call that day. To know that she had noticed that even the hard things we did when she was younger was actually. It was actually like lifting weights to get her ready for life. That was our goal.

A (53:55)

We're both emotional over here. I got teary about that. You say the paradox of our lives today is that some of the things adults and schools do to get kids admitted into college may just make them less able to thrive once they arrive there. I want to read one other quote is we're running out of time here. I just thought this is a huge one. You call them generation. OD over, diagnosed, on demand, overly distracted. You wrote the people who maintain a happy life. And this is like for their long term. Right. Those who are emotionally healthy are people who create margin in their calendars. They schedule portions of their days to create space. They remove noise and clutter during those portions of time. They experience solitude, quiet simplicity. They take control of their days instead of remaining at the mercy of all the busyness going on. They are intentional to unplug. And you just talk about boredom.

B (54:45)

Yeah.

A (54:45)

That kids. It's a. It's a gift for them and that we need to let them be bored. And that those pieces of nothingness.

B (54:51)

Yeah.

A (54:52)

Would create in them habits to do that as they become adults and would just carry them. So. So far, Tim, what a book. What a book and what a blog. Here's what I like. I really like about it and I think is very unique. You talk about the problems, the paradoxes, the challenges. But I think what's really cool about what you do is because you have this background with leadership, you give the reader ideas of what you can do. It's not like, don't do this, don't do this, don't. I mean, there's a. There's some of that. Right. It's like, don't be a thief. Don't steal all their time. But also like, here's is from a Someone who has raised, you know, half a million millions of leaders. These are some things you can do that can help get them ready for what is to come and that the majority of their life will be as an adult. And these are the ways that you can prepare them. And I just really got so, so much out of this book. Generation Z Unfiltered and the Like I said the blog. I mean you could go there right now to Tim Elmore.com and if you would like to know nine times to keep your mouth shut, which includes like when you're angry and if you don't know the whole story and if you're emotional and if you can't talk without raising your voice in times of grief, like if the topic is worthless, if your words can destroy a relationship. I like oh my gosh is some of the best stuff I've ever read. So that's free there. You can go right to the blog. The e book is free. The glass is. Is still half full. And then all sorts of other things that you can find. The habitudes that We've talked about 35 plus books and courses and you speak all over the world so people could possibly come see you live. What an honor, Tim. What an absolute honor. This book has been life changing for me. So I'm. I'm so thankful that you wrote it, thankful that you spent this time with us. We always wrap up with the same question and the question is, what's a favorite memory from your childhood that was outside.

B (56:47)

Oh my. Wow. Well, you know, I mentioned the bike accident and that was certainly outside. But the point I remember most was how my mom led me. She didn't overreact. She was calm. I knew she loved me. I was convinced of that. She didn't need to be dramatic to remind me that she loved me. And in fact, her care, her. Her poise, if I can use that word as a mama, was exactly what I needed. I miss her to this day. I think of her often. She passed away, but I think it would be that one that was a horrible and a wonderful day in my life because of the way my mom.

A (57:28)

A paradox.

B (57:29)

Yeah, a paradox.

A (57:30)

Because of your mom led you and what a thing that she left with you. And you know, those are the types of things you just. You don't even know they're coming. Your kid comes home, they've been in a bike accident. I mean that's probably hardly happening today because kids aren't even out biking on their own. But what an opportunity sometimes that the. That the worst things you know, or the things that appear to be, you know, harmful or what an opportunity that they provide for us to, to model for our kids. And then, I mean, I would imagine she would never think like someday my son will talk and I'm gone. My son is going to be talking about this on a podcast.

B (58:05)

Yeah.

A (58:06)

Because it was so impactful to him. Wow, Tim, thank you. I am beyond honored. You are like so famous and have all of these things going on. I was looking at your website. It was like, you know, as seen on blah blah blah and blah blah and you know, has worked with this company, this company, all the ones you've heard of and here you are with us today. Thank you so much.

B (58:23)

It's been my pleasure. Jenny, I love how you think and I love what you're up to. Keep on keeping on.