1KHO 426: The Relationship Between Light and Chronic Illness | Meredith Oke, Quantum Biology Collective

Summary

The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
Episode 1KHO 426: The Relationship Between Light and Chronic Illness | Meredith Oke, Quantum Biology Collective
Release Date: February 5, 2025

Hosted by Ginny Yurich

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Introduction

In Episode 426 of The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast, host Ginny Yurich welcomes Meredith Oak from the Quantum Biology Collective to delve into the profound relationship between light exposure and chronic illness. This insightful conversation bridges personal experiences with cutting-edge science, offering listeners both understanding and practical strategies to enhance their health through natural light.

1. The Impact of Chronic Fatigue on Mothers

Meredith Oak opens up about her personal battle with chronic fatigue, distinguishing it from ordinary sleep deprivation:

Meredith Oak [02:30]: "When it comes to chronic fatigue, it's like trying to push yourself to do activities and then being flat out for days. It's not something you can simply catch up on sleep from."

She underscores the pervasive yet often misunderstood nature of chronic fatigue among mothers, emphasizing that it's a significant health signal rather than just a byproduct of a busy lifestyle.

2. Understanding Quantum Biology and Light's Role in Health

Meredith introduces the concept of quantum biology, explaining its intricate connection between quantum physics and biology:

Meredith Oak [07:35]: "Our bodies are actually sensing our environment all of the time. Our cells are in communication with frequencies from light to sound to emotions."

She elaborates on applied quantum biology, a practical approach that translates complex scientific principles into actionable health practices. Central to this discussion is the importance of circadian rhythms—the body's internal clock regulated by natural light cycles.

3. Light Exposure and Chronic Illness

Delving deeper, Meredith connects disrupted light exposure to a myriad of chronic illnesses:

Meredith Oak [11:37]: "Light programs every single process in our body. When we disrupt our circadian rhythms with artificial light, we're throwing off everything from sleep to digestion."

She likens light to a conductor orchestrating the body's functionalities, where natural sunlight ensures harmony, and artificial light induces discord, potentially leading to diseases like ADD, digestive issues, and more.

4. Practical Solutions for Light Optimization

To combat the adverse effects of artificial light, Meredith offers practical solutions:

• Orange/Red Glasses: These glasses filter out harmful blue light emitted by screens, preventing disruption of the circadian rhythm.

  Meredith Oak [24:56]: "They filter the blue light, stopping your body from receiving signals that it's still daytime, allowing your natural sleep processes to occur."

• Adjusting Home Lighting: Transitioning from LED to incandescent bulbs in evening settings can significantly reduce blue light exposure.

  Meredith Oak [27:44]: "Incandescent bulbs emit a warmer, orange glow that aligns better with our biological needs compared to the harsh, blue-heavy LED lights."

5. Light Exposure and Family Health

Meredith shares observations from her family's life, highlighting the health benefits of increased outdoor time:

Meredith Oak [13:57]: "Once we started spending more time outside, no one was getting sick, and our visits to the doctor decreased significantly."

She emphasizes that natural light exposure not only boosts individual health but also fosters a healthier family dynamic.

6. The Modern Light Environment vs. Natural Light

The shift from incandescent to LED lighting has had profound health implications:

Meredith Oak [27:44]: "LED lights are like putting as much sugar as possible in an energy bar with no nutrients. They're bad for your health because they emit isolated blue light that our bodies aren't equipped to handle."

She discusses the academic consensus on the detrimental effects of LED lighting post-sunset and the urgent need for awareness and change.

7. Tips for Integrating Healthy Light Practices

Meredith provides actionable tips for optimizing light exposure:

• Morning Light: Encourage natural sunlight exposure first thing in the morning instead of turning on artificial lights or checking phones.

  Meredith Oak [21:27]: "When you wake up, go outside or open a window so that natural sunlight hits your eyes and skin immediately."

• Evening Light Management: Reduce blue light exposure by using orange glasses, dimming lights, or employing screen filters after sunset.

  Meredith Oak [24:56]: "Switching to reading a book with red or orange clip-on lights can help maintain your circadian rhythm without the disruptive blue light."

8. Light, Water, and Magnetism

Expanding the conversation, Meredith touches on the interconnectedness of light with other natural elements:

Meredith Oak [36:49]: "Structured water in our bodies is charged by light, and our cells communicate through frequencies, connecting us deeply to our environment."

She highlights how these connections support overall cellular health and harmony.

9. Resources and Community Support

Meredith emphasizes the importance of community and continuous learning:

• Quantum Biology Collective Podcast: A platform to explore deeper scientific discussions.
• Certification Programs: Opportunities for healthcare professionals and coaches to become certified in healing with the science of light.
• Free Membership: A social platform where parents and practitioners can ask questions and share insights.

Meredith Oak [39:17]: "Visit qbcpod.com to join our private social platform where certified practitioners and parents can support and answer questions related to light and health."

10. Personal Practices of Meredith Oak

Meredith shares her daily routines to maintain an optimal light environment:

Meredith Oak [50:12]: "I start my day by going outside with my dog, even if it's just for a minute. I also make it a point to crack open windows to let natural light in, counteracting the treated glass that blocks beneficial frequencies."

She underscores the significance of integrating these practices seamlessly into daily life to maximize health benefits.

11. Conclusion

As the episode wraps up, Meredith reflects on cherished outdoor memories and reinforces the episode's core message:

Meredith Oak [55:30]: "I have vivid memories of winter walks where we patiently fed chickadees in the forest. Moments like these highlight the profound connection between natural light, nature, and our well-being."

She leaves listeners with a heartfelt appreciation for the simple yet transformative power of spending time outside.

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Key Takeaways

• Circadian Rhythms: Fundamental to overall health, regulated by natural light cycles.
• Quantum Biology: A field exploring the quantum-level interactions between light and biological systems.
• Artificial Light: LED lights, especially post-sunset, disrupt natural bodily functions leading to chronic illnesses.
• Practical Steps: Utilize orange/red glasses, prioritize morning sunlight, adjust home lighting, and increase outdoor activities.
• Community and Resources: Engage with platforms like the Quantum Biology Collective for ongoing support and education.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Meredith Oak [07:35]: "Our bodies are actually sensing our environment all of the time. Our cells are in communication with frequencies from light to sound to emotions."
• Meredith Oak [11:37]: "Light programs every single process in our body. When we disrupt our circadian rhythms with artificial light, we're throwing off everything from sleep to digestion."
• Meredith Oak [24:56]: "They filter the blue light, stopping your body from receiving signals that it's still daytime, allowing your natural sleep processes to occur."
• Meredith Oak [27:44]: "LED lights are like putting as much sugar as possible in an energy bar with no nutrients. They're bad for your health because they emit isolated blue light that our bodies aren't equipped to handle."
• Meredith Oak [50:12]: "I start my day by going outside with my dog, even if it's just for a minute. I also make it a point to crack open windows to let natural light in, counteracting the treated glass that blocks beneficial frequencies."

Final Thoughts

Episode 426 of The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast serves as a compelling exploration into how light profoundly influences our health. Meredith Oak's blend of personal insight and scientific expertise offers listeners a roadmap to harnessing natural light for improved well-being. By adopting the practical strategies discussed, individuals and families can take meaningful steps toward revitalizing their health and reconnecting with the natural rhythms that sustain life.

Transcript

[Ginny Yurich]

All right, quick announcement before we start today's episode. If you haven't gotten your tickets for the 1000 hours outside, really very crunchy worthy tour, what are you waiting for? This is going to be such a fun, joy filled, memory making night and I don't want you to miss it.

[Meredith Oak]

This is our very first tour.

[Ginny Yurich]

We have five locations. We will be in Grand Rapids, Michigan, Adrian, Michigan, Smyrna, Georgia, Franklin, Tennessee and Cincinnati, Ohio. If you are even remotely close, you should make the drive and come. You can grab your tickets now at 1000 hours outside. You can get $5 off with promo code, podcast and get ready for an evening of laughter, stories, music, and all the crunchy and maybe not so crunchy goodness you love.

[Meredith Oak]

See you there.

[Ginny Yurich]

Now let's jump into today's conversation.

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[Meredith Oak]

Thanks for your audience. We can talk a lot through the parenting lens. Yeah, we just launched a free membership, like a free social media platform where people can go in and ask questions. Because what I find is they hear about this and then they're like, wait, what about, like, if my wi. If it's through the window or what about this? Or, you know, they have all these little questions. So I think for your audience, that would be the best place for them to go to get information that would meet them where, where they're at. Because, yeah, the certification is like, I don't, you know, I don't teach it. My background is in coaching, executive coaching, and life coaching. Okay, so I came to this, and we can talk about it if you want, but I came to for my health and I was like, so hard to understand and learn and I couldn't find any practitioners who knew what I was talking about. So I found people who were good at teaching it and created this organization, which we're about to turn into a nonprofit.

Wow. Well, let's just keep going. We're already, we're in it.

So my goal was for everyone who wanted to have a practitioner who understood health through the lens of light and quantum biology. They would be able to find one.

So, wow, we're in it, Meredith. Let's just keep going.

Okay.

What A path. So what was the health impetus that took you down that path?

So I had what I didn't realize at the time, in hindsight, I had chronic fatigue. I had at the time, two, like school age children and a baby. And everyone was like, well, of course you're tired. And I was like, no, you don't understand. This is different. Like when I had my first two children, you know, like the baby toddler years, you just don't sleep that much. And that was like sleep deprivation tired. This felt different. The effects of it felt different. And also with sleep deprivation tired, I love sharing this because I think it really helps people understand this difference. Right. Like, if it's just sleep depth prevention, if you catch up on your sleep, you feel better. If you get some childcare or you rearrange your schedule or the baby starts sleeping, you're like, oh, here I am. Whereas with chronic fatigue, it was like I would arrange my life to sleep 10 hours a night and I would wake up feeling exhausted or I would like, you know, I'd feel a little bit better, but it wasn't like, oh, wow, here I am again. Like, it just. I couldn't get over that. I'm really stubborn. So I still did lots of stuff in my life, but I would like push myself to like, take the kids skiing or do something, and then I'd be flat out with no energy for like three days.

Wow, that's really hard.

Yeah, it was weird.

How long did you live like that?

I lived like that on and off for years. Like three to five years. It would sometimes get better and then it would get bad again. And I went to my doctor and they did all the labs and they're like, your labs are normal, you're fine, you're just tired. And so then I went the alternative route and I did food and that helped. And supplements, and that helped. I moved. This. This started. We were living overseas and I lived in a high rise when all of this started. And then we moved and I was lived in a house on the ground again. And it actually got a little bit better, but it was on and off like that for three to five years.

That's a long time. Yeah. Do you hear that a lot of moms are struggling with chronic fatigue. I mean, I'd only heard of. I only knew of one person who had it when I was a kid. My friend Christy's mom had it. She was tired a lot. And I just remember that, but I don't remember hearing about it at all. Besides that one person. Are you Hearing stories from a lot of moms who are feeling this way.

Yes. Yeah. And I think just because of how I am, I actually caught it relatively early. I have heard of people who are, you know, just unable to move, unable to leave the house, unable to get off the couch. It can get really bad. But I think what's important, and even the term chronic fatigue, right, like, we kind of have all these labels for things, but really it's like what we're saying is like our bodies aren't working properly and so it's showing up in different ways. But I think what's really, really important, especially, especially for moms to understand is that fatigue, as I was saying, like fatigue fatigue, not just like sleep deprivation, but fatigue is one of the first signals that your body gives for a multitude of other health problems down the road. So the fatigue, that sense that like your body's just not making enough energy to do what you need to do or to do what you used to be able to do. That feeling like, like when you look at your phone and the battery is on low and you, you feel like that, right? And that feeling is a really major signal from your body that something's off. And the sooner you can start addressing that, the better because it's the number one thing. It's the first stop on the train to getting sick.

It's so interesting because it is totally a signal. It's even a signal for me, at least when I was pregnant. I mean, that was the first signal when I knew I was pregnant because I was like, I am so unbelievably tired. I just woke up and I could go back to bed, you know, two hours later, and I was like, I'm pregnant. I would know before I would take the test. So it is, it's a big signal that your body sends. What you do is you do a lot of work with light. And the technical term, which is cool, and people are going to sound like, you know, they're really cool. Learning something good is quantum biology or applied quantum biology. So we're talking about light, but there is this overarching, very scientific sounding term that might scare people away a little bit. Like quantum. I've heard of quantum computing, which is way beyond sort of my understanding. But can you just break that down a little bit? The wording, talking about quantum biology and applied quantum biology?

Yes. So, okay, so quantum biology is an academic field and it's the intersection of quantum physics and biology. And it's super complex and hard to understand if you're not a scientist in either of those fields. And even if you are like the biologists don't know anything about quantum physics and the quantum physicists don't anything about biology. So this is was actually a huge kind of innovation in academia for these two fields to come together. But it's like very high level academic science when we talk about it. And I coined the term applied quantum biology with Carrie Bennett who teaches this to practitioners. That means it's like, okay, how much of the science do we understand and do we need to understand in order to apply it practically? What does that mean in real terms? Because I'm like, as I mentioned, I'm a coach, I'm like, okay, but what can people do with it? So that's where the applied comes in. In terms of light, it might be easier for people to think in terms of circadian biology or circadian rhythms, that's a little bit more of a common term. And the way that I explain it is, okay, so over the last 20 years, research has shown that our circadian rhythms being circadian regulated is absolutely fundamental to our health. This is not controversial to say there are tens of thousands. Last time I checked, I put circadian rhythm into the PubMed where all the research is published and there were like 90,000 papers on it. Like, it's very, very clear. The quantum biology is a little newer, a little less well understood. It explains how light is interacting with our bodies at a deeper level. So it's not necessary to get quantum biology in a practical sense in order to make the changes necessary and in order to understand circadian rhythm and circadian regulation. But it is an evolving science and everything is pointing towards the fact that we are not just biochemical machines, we are in fact quantum in the sense that these quantum effects are happening at the smallest level. The way that I like to explain it is you can forget all those terms. But the bottom line of it for me is that our bodies are actually sensing our environment all of the time. Our bodies and our cells are in communication with our environment all the time frequencies from light to sound to emotions, all of it. And that's what this science able to explain and show evidence for in ways that were previously considered. Woo.

Yeah, sure, sure. So you wrote the circadian rhythm research is totally irrefutable at this point. The science is now firmly established. What's the connection between light and. I know our doctors aren't talking about it and I've heard you talk about this on your podcast where you say things like the doctors just don't know they're not taught it in school. And there's no, you always say there's no like central download system. If something new comes along. There's not like a, hey, all doctors, you need to know this piece of information. It's more, does that doctor choose to research that or not? Do they have time to. So there's going to be a lot of doctors that don't know about this. And so you're going to go to appointments, you're not going to hear about it at all. But there is a relationship between light and our chronic illnesses. And one of the things that someone had said on your podcast was, and, and I think we're seeing this a lot like you're chugging along, things seem to be fine, you start to get a little bit tired, and then all of a sudden things are not fine. So what's the relationship between chronic disease, that we're seeing a huge rise in huge spikes, and light?

So it turns out that light programs every single process in our body. Everything. So when we mess around with our light and our circadian rhythms, we are throwing off every process that we need to live from sleep to digestion. Our hormones, our neurotransmitters, our mitochondria, all of that functions on this exquisitely fine tuned system that is calibrated by sunlight. It will show up differently for different people, depending what is going on inside of their bodies with their mitochondria, where their weaknesses are, whatever. So for some people, they might have circadian disruption, dysregulation, and their ADD gets worse. For somebody else, it might be a digestive issue, but every single health concern that a person could possibly have has at its foundation a relationship with light. Not to say light is the only thing. Of course, eating real food matters and moving around matters, and all of the things we think of as healthy also matter. But so does light. And I focus on it a lot because we don't think about it and we really, really need to. I think of it as like, if our bodies and all the cells in our bodies are an orchestra, light is the conductor, and light keeps everything happening at the way that it's supposed to. The music is coherent and harmonious and doing what it needs to do. When we interrupt that circadian regulation, everything gets thrown off. Our sleep, our ability to digest all of these things, and the way that we do that, the main cause at this moment in time is looking at bright screens and having bright LED lights on at nighttime and not spending enough time outside. Which is why I love your podcast like just broadcasting a thousand hours outside, just putting that message out into the world gets so healing. Ginny. I don't even know if you knew that when you picked it, but it. It's really, really, really important. And it's just helping so many people even to have that thought in their head.

I mean, there was a. A noticeable difference in our family's health once we started spending time outside. And I was not aware of any of the benefits at the very beginning. I was just doing it because I was sort of losing my mind with young children. And it was a way to pass the time that felt like it was worthwhile. And then, you know, all of a sudden, no one's getting sick, and we're not having to go to the doctor as much. It's been over a decade for our family, and I've really seen that it has enhanced our health. It's really cool to start to learn some of the science behind it that you're talking about. So when you say we're messing around with our light, this is an interesting thing. I didn't learn about it. I started learning about it from a man named Jacob Lieberman, who wrote some books about light that I really liked. I didn't know anything about it. And he was talking about how there's light for vision, and that's really all we focus on, is light for vision. But he's like, no, no. Light is really for your biology, you know, yes, it's for vision, but a large part of our light exposure is also for our biology. Not all light is the same. So can you explain that? Like, when you say we're messing around with our light, what do you mean by that?

So we evolved under the sun. The human species evolved outside under the sun. So I said before that we were very finely calibrated. Every moment that the sun is out, the frequencies are subtly shifting and changing. And sometimes not so subtly, right? Like, if you think about being outside at noon versus at sunrise, it's a very different light environment. And all of those frequencies are giving information to our bodies. We're absorbing them through our skin and through our eyes and our eyes and our skin. They've now shown that we have little clocks in not every cell, but most of them in our bodies. And we have a big clock behind our eyes called the suprachiasmatic nucleus. And this was just proven in the 1980s. There was a researcher, I had him on from Harvard, and he was like, I really want to look into circadian rhythm. And all of his mentors were like why that doesn't matter. It's not that big a deal. But his team found that in fact, we have this superchiasmatic nucleus which sets the timing for our entire bodies, which is programmed by sunlight. And then the researchers found that in fact our entire bodies are filled with little tiny clocks. It's funny, if you go into Google and do body clock writing, click images, there's all these little drawings of people filled with clocks because that is kind of the metaphorical way to think about it. And those clocks are being set by sunlight. There is no artificial light that is the equivalent. There are some light bulbs that are healthier than others, but there is nothing that humans have created that can take the place of the timing mechanisms being calibrated properly. For the timing mechanisms to be calibrated properly, you need real sunlight and not through a window, unfortunately.

Well, and then what I learned was that the frequencies, they shift throughout the day. Yeah, that's what you're saying, is that the amount of blue light that's shown at this time. And, and from Jacob Lieberman, I learned that it's a wave. You know, like how there's waves in the ocean, but if you have like a fluorescent light, it's, it's like peaks like of just red or just. It's very different. It's not a wave. Anyway. I didn't know any of it at all.

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So, talking about from your coaching background and the practical side of it, if sunlight is guiding our bodies and kids on average are only spending four to seven minutes outside a day, how should this information change the way that we live?

So I like to say that we need to think about light the same way we think about food. I think any health conscious parent is mindful of what they feed their children. And it's not like, oh, you can never have sugar or you can. Well, for some people it is. For most of us, you know, it's not. No, never. But we are not, you know, giving our children Oreos for breakfast. And like, there's food that is a treat. There's food that you have to eat, real food first, and then you can have that. Like, we pay a lot of attention to what we eat and what we feed our families. My suggestion is to apply that same kind of mindfulness to light. It's not like you have to get rid of every light bulb and turn off all the screens, but it's if we're understanding what they're doing, we can structure it and make choices in a way that are less detrimental to health. So, for example, when you first wake up in the morning, instead of turning on an LED light bulb or looking at your phone, go outside or open a window and have the first light that hits your eyes and your skin, be that natural sunlight. So when I go in to wake my children up in the morning, I crack the window like it's time to get up. And I just crack the window so that the photons are crafty little things. Like, they will find, even if it's a crack, that light is coming in. And so first thing in the morning, the most important thing is to have natural light hit your eyes first before the other stuff. And then conversely, the other crucial piece is at nighttime. You were mentioning before about the different frequencies of light at different times of day. Blue light occurs naturally in the sun, but only in the middle of the day. And it's also counterbalanced by a whole other spectrum of light in nature. You never, ever get isolated blue light landing on your skin or landing on your eyes. When we turn on an LED bulb or open our computer on factory settings, that is what we're giving ourselves. We're feeding our bodies isolated blue light which not only doesn't occur in nature in that way, it also definitely doesn't occur when it's dark outside. So when I talk about the importance of getting healthy light signals, it's also just as important to get darkness signals. So if we go outside and walk the dog at sunset and then it gets dark, and then we come inside and open our laptop to factory settings and blast ourselves with that light, or our children are watching TV or whatever, that is hugely messing up our sleep and our circadian rhythm. And it's kind of like giving them an espresso fudge sundae as a bedtime snack. It is that powerful in terms of the negative effects. So before everyone gets upset, like, oh, but we watch TV at night, you can wear, like those funny orange colored glasses. There's software you can download onto laptops that, where you can put on the settings that turn your screen orange. There's lots of little things you can do. So we don't, you know, we don't have to live like it's 1850. It's just understanding what's going on so we can make choices.

What do the orange color? I mean, I've seen them, obviously, and I have a pair sitting in my drawer. But, you know, you're kind of like, you put them on and you're like, is this really doing anything? What do they do?

So they filter the blue light. So as I was saying, it's the isolated blue light is coming out of your devices and going into your eyeballs and going into your skin and telling your body that it's daytime outside. Telling your body that it's high noon, when in fact, your body should be starting to slow down and get ready for sleep. The darkness and the low light sends a signal to your body like, okay, it's time to lower the cortisol. It's time, you know, all of the. It's time for the melatonin to come out. It's time for all of the natural processes that are meant to happen while we sleep, which is when our body, our cells, especially in our brain, repair and restore themselves. So the blue light is stopping that restorative. It's basically stopping you from getting restorative sleep. You may be unconscious, but your body's not doing what it needs to do. So the orange glasses or the red glasses filter that blue light so your body is not receiving that signal. Even though I'm watching Netflix with my husband because it's Friday and we want to watch a movie, the glasses stop that signal. They filter it and Turn it into a red light, which does not disrupt your circadian rhythm.

Wow. Okay. So they really work.

They really do. And even like, you know, I know people who are such, such nerds on this. I'm more of like a high level person, but I was talking to someone. She found some glasses on Amazon that were like $2 and she bought them and she tested them. Because I have people who are so nerdy, they'll test what light they have missed. They have little tools to test what light is coming through. And Even on these $2 ones, they weren't perfect, but they made a huge difference. So if you buy quality ones, they actually do block out almost all of the blue light. And even cheap ones will block out a lot more. So it's, you know, if you're like, I don't know if I want to spend money on this weirdness, like, just try the $2 ones. It's way, way, way better than nothing.

So practically speaking, it would be like, maybe you put them on what, 7pm or I guess it would change depending on the time of year or only if you're going to be on screens.

Yeah. So it depends what. So you're using them to, to mitigate the light environment. So if you have control over your light environment and it's your house and you, you're like, I don't turn. You know, we, all the houses, all our houses now have LED lights in the ceiling. Right. So if we're just like, okay, those do not come on in the evening. I have a lamp with an incandescent bulb or a bulb that has like kind of an orangey glow.

Can you explain that really quick? Because I, I remember that being a thing. Right. The light bulbs all changed for energy efficiency.

Yeah.

But there is a big difference.

Yeah. So the light bulbs became junk light. Like they became bad for you. Which I think is a huge part of the chronic disease epidemic that we're seeing right along with the processed food and along with the glyphosate and along with all of those things, our bodies have just been under assault by our environments because we're just not paying attention. And so another key piece is that we went from incandescent bulbs, which a lot of us grew up with, to the LEDs because they're more energy efficient. But they're basically, it's like to keep going with the food analogy, if you were taking like an energy bar and you're like, how can I put as much sugar in this? And as little nutrients as possible, like, how could I make this the absolute worst thing you could possibly eat. That's what an LED light bulb is. The light is so white and bright and blue, there's nothing in it that our body knows what to do with. Whereas an incandescent bulb, an Edison bulb, those ones that have like a warmer orange glow, those a aren't as bright, like just in your eyes, but also the color tone of it makes more sense to our biology. So when we switched and we filled all our houses up with these unbelievably bright lights, that's a huge health hazard. Dr. Martin Moore Ede, who has a substack, and he's the one who worked at Harvard, he says that he asked, he did a survey of all of the circadian scientists and he said, would you agree with the idea that we should put warning labels on LED bulbs saying do not use after sunset? They all said, yes, they should come with warning labels.

Wow. Do not use after sunset. Sunset is the signal which would obviously it changes every single day when that happens. Sunset is when we need to be more aware of what light we are exposing ourselves to. And it's interesting because I think the American way is get your work done and then sit around and watch screens. And so it's just a really, an awful pattern, especially if these lights are really bothering with our sleep. And then additionally, you talk about teens. Teens are often on their phones through the night. Yeah, they are not getting outside. I mean, I remember when I was in high school, I got on the bus in the dark. It came at 6:15. So I got in the bus in the dark, no light. I mean, it was still completely dark. So for kids that are up and getting on the bus that early, they're getting to school before the sun comes up. They're on their phones at night. How should we be parenting our teenagers through all of this?

It's tough because, you know, by the time they're teenagers, they get set in their ways. So it is easier to, to start this when they're younger. But I would first just start by saying it's worth doing. We've all seen the research and heard about the research in terms of teenagers mental health. And we blame social media. And I do agree. I think the content on social media is likely contributing, but what is not being talked about is the device itself and how that is contributing. Because if you are looking at your phone right before bed and the phone is on factory settings because you can make the screen red and you don't even need a special app, you can go into the disability settings on an iPhone and turn it red. They're sort of starting that you can switch to the dark background, which is a little bit better. But if you are on your phone right before bed and in the middle of the night and the phone is on factory settings, you are basically giving yourself depression, anxiety, insomnia, chronic fatigue, irritability, inability to focus because our bodies cannot make all of the hormones that they need to be balanced. When we interrupt the darkness with these blasts of light that our bodies don't know what to do with, right? It's like when you're at the grocery store and you're scanning your groceries and then there's a package that has a barcode from some other thing and you scan the wrong barcode and it's like, eh, eh. Like I don't know what to do. It's like that's what we're doing. Like we're giving with this light. Our body's like, ah. And it's disrupting it and it's like, oh, it's daytime and it's like, I'm going to shoot out all this stuff. Oh no, now it's dark and it's completely destroying all of the functions that are supposed to be happening while we sleep. So it's so, so important to figure this out with teenagers. And as I said, you can start by having them wear the glasses, which they don't like, but like my son likes to play Fortnite. We have a basket of the orange glasses and it's like, okay, well if it's dark out, the glasses go on. As I said, you can make this green, red. Ideally you want to have like a cutoff time with the technology and have them switch to reading a book with like a little, you can get little clip on reading lights that are red or orange and have them switch to that instead of reading on their phones before bed. And I know that it's tough if that's what they're used to, but it really, really, really is worth it for the short term and the long term. I don't like to stress people out, but it's really dangerous what we're doing to developing brains with this light at night. I'll say that.

And those are good solutions. Those are good solutions that they would take with them. I like the idea of just paying attention to when the sunset is. I mean, we're so disconnected, I think, from the natural rhythms of life. And so we, on occasion we're not very good at it, but we try and do the one day off a week, like a sundown to a sundown. And when you pay attention to when the sun goes down, it's also a reminder that time is passing. It does something for you to pay attention to the natural rhythms of the world. I think for me, like listening to you, I'm like, I should pay attention to when the sun goes down on a daily basis. And this conversation will help me to do that, just to notice. And then what light am I being exposed to after that? And also the sun in the morning, the light in the morning. What's that like? And are we exposing ourselves to that? That's something that my midwife taught us about years and years ago about how it you release serotonin so you feel good. Yeah. And then the serotonin is a precursor for melatonin. So I always say happy kids in the morning and sleepy kids at night. I mean, this is what we want.

Oh, I love that.

So it's, it's great. It's great for family life.

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[Meredith Oak]

Okay, talk to me about light, water, and magnetism.

Okay, so now we're getting into the weeds. It's a way of thinking about health that's. It's a new paradigm, right? Like I was saying before, even in alternative health, we still type. Think about, okay, well, I eat this food and this reaction happens, and I take this supplement and this reaction happens. Like, shifting into this is. We're thinking about things on a completely different wavelength. So the light that's coming into our bodies, the magnetism of the earth. There's a lot of research as well, you know, about being grounded. I don't know if you've talked. Had people on your podcast talking about that, because you talk, you. You do such a beautiful job, like, helping people get outside the book list that you have. There's so many books on there about how to help, you know, families go camping and spend time in nature. And I'm like, ginny, like, you are. Literally, this is like a health service that you're providing. And I know that wasn't necessarily, like, the main goal, but that is what you're doing by having people be outside. Our bodies are like, they're meant to work well, like, we're meant to feel pretty good. So when we're outside and we're connected to the earth and we're getting natural light, our bodies are in an environment that makes sense to them. We can kind of like relax at a cellular level and allow safety signals to entrain us to understand that we belong here, that this is where we're meant to be. We don't get that from our modern indoor environments. Like, that has to be outside. And so the water piece has to do with the fact that this new field of science is also uncovering that we're filled with what's called structured water. It's like this special water, and that water is charged by the light, and the water holds memory and it connects through our fascia. And it. It's an unbelievably beautiful story. There's a scientist called May Wen Ho, and she describes our bodies as being liquid crystal. If you think about how a crystal is charged by light and energy, that's sort of how our bodies are. And when we're outside, we're getting the inputs that we were created to receive. That's what God meant for us.

And if people aren't wanting to know more. You talk about this all the time on your own podcast, which is called Quantum Biology Collective. Yes, the Quantum Biology Collective podcast. And I'll make sure I put all the links. You can even get certified in this. I'll put a link for that as well. If you are a healthcare professional or a coach, you could get certified in Healing with the Science of Light. And then you also have a free membership where parents can ask questions. Tell us about that.

Yeah, so if you go to qbcpod.com there's a link to. It's like a private social platform, and we have a lot of our certified practitioners who studied the science in there to answer questions. Because I know it's like one of those things where you hear about it and you're like, okay. And then you go to live your life and you're like, wait a minute, what about what? Where do I get that? Or what did she really mean by that? Or what about, you know, all these little questions pop up. So that's a really great place to go. There'll be lots of people who can support you and answer those questions. We've got lots of parents in there as well.

My midwife has been on this podcast several times, and she was talking about what's the best thing that you could do for yourself if you're pregnant? And I was actually surprised. And she said to go outside, go walk, go walk outside. It's just good for being in your body and the movement and all of that. And so I think sometimes we think, well, this is for, like, when our kids are older, you know, when they're four, when they're five. But in Angela Hanscom's book Balanced and Barefoot, she actually talks about the first year of life as being so incredibly important for babies to be outside. And then one thing I've Heard you talk about, it's been talked about on your podcast even earlier than that into the pregnancy is that their signals coming in through the placenta. So we think about these babies as being in a darkish environment, they're underneath a layer of clothes, you know that it wouldn't matter at all when you're pregnant to the baby that's growing. But this is important to know for pregnant moms as well, right?

Yes, absolutely. And the research on this is crazy. They are tracing back circadian dysregulated mothers, connecting it to dementia and Alzheimer's and Parkinson's and showing up later in life for the baby. So it's crazy. And if this is really interesting to you, I really recommend the work of Nico Kennedy. She has a substack and she does research on circadian rhythms and fertility, pregnancy and postpartum. She's a trained doula. She's amazing on this. You should have her on. But she told me about that. So that advice to go outside from your midwife is probably the best advice I could ever think.

Right.

And it's like, what would our ancestors have done? Like, what light signals would we be have been getting 100 years ago or a thousand years ago? Right. It's like sun and fire. That's it. And there is more and more research show that because circadian rhythms have such an impact on the mother, that does go through to the child. And when you breastfeed for those early months, the baby doesn't actually have a circadian rhythm yet. Nico told me this. They get entrained onto it through the melatonin and the mother's milk. So having a circadian regulated mother is incredibly important to the health of the infant, to the sleep patterns of the infant, you know, and even like, oh, the baby wakes up in the middle of the night, I'll just turn on the lights and change it. It's like, oh, you know, you can get, like I said, you can get like a little clip on light. I don't know, they're like $20, I think. And you can clip it onto the side of the change table and see what you need to do without having that blasting light. Because that will be like, oh, it's so hard to get the baby back to sleep. But it's like if you've just totally dysregulated their system with the wrong light, with like a blast of bright white LED light at 1 o'clock in the morning, of course it's going to be hard for them to get back to sleep. So yes, yes, yes, yes. And even pre pregnancy, see, fertility for both parents, circadian regulation plays a role.

Tell us more.

Well, I. That's not my area. I would. I would talk to Nico about that. But it just goes back to our bodies working properly, right? Like, if our body feels like it's in an unsafe environment and it feels like it's not functioning well, and it feels like it doesn't have enough energy, it's not going to want to fertilize an egg, right? Like it's not going to want to get pregnant. That's the sort of metaphoric way I would recommend Nico to break down the science of it. But that's basically it, right? It's like when we get sick, when we get a disease, it gets harder to conceive a child because our body's like, no. Like, we're not well enough to do that. And circadian dysregulation is a signal of unease, of something not being right. So it will absolutely interfere with something as crucial as fertilizing your little future baby.

How is that interesting? It just makes me think of so many other things that are really random. I talked to this lady about chickens, so this is random, but she was talking about how certain chickens and certain birds, the ones that have to camouflage their eggs, there's more work that goes into that, that takes more energy for there to be like a, you know, some brown speckles or whatever. And the ones that their nests are completely hidden, they can just lay white eggs because it doesn't matter. And that takes up less energy. I don't know, it's interesting or interesting. And then this is a completely, really odd transition. But I talked to this wonderful woman named Dr. Edith Eger, who went through the Holocaust at age 16 with her sister, and she's written the most profound books. She's still alive. She's in her late 90s.

Wow.

She was saying that their cycles stopped when they were in Auschwitz and that her sister thought they were being drugged. And, you know, it was like this whole thing, right? They're like 16, they're. They're like, well, what's going on? But, like, that's what you're saying. It's like you're not in a spot to carry a child. And so their bodies had, you know, stopped working in that way. And this is a big deal. Fertility is a really big deal right now. It wasn't quite as big of a deal even 20, 30 years ago. But what was different? People were outside more A lot. They were outside a Lot more kids, you know, their whole childhoods were outside. I had this guy who said that in the 60s, the biggest punishment that you could ever get was being told that you had to stay inside. There was nothing worse.

You're not allowed to go outside. Yeah, that's so true.

Yeah. So what a thing. It's really interesting. The melatonin in the milk is interesting, too. I had heard that before, Meredith, because I had heard that if you pump. Now, our kids never took bottles, so we were attached to each other for years. But they were saying, like, if you pump, you actually should be paying attention to when you pumped because you don't want to give the baby the bottle that's filled with melatonin milk at 3pm yeah, so I. I had heard of that. I mean, I never really did it because I didn't pump too much, but I was like, that's kind of interesting. But if your cycle is messed up, then your milk may not be matching, you know, the day and the night cycle. And so you're. It's gonna be harder for your baby to adjust.

Yes. Yeah. And conversely, if you give the baby morning milk at nighttime, your cortisol levels are raised like it's. The baby is meant to be synced up with the mom, and the mom is meant to be synced up with the son.

Wow. So on your podcast, you talk about a lot of different types of chronic disease. You're talking about autoimmune, obesity, cardiovascular cancer, chronic fatigue, brain fog, anxiety, depression. You had someone who came on and talked about Lyme. You had someone who came on and talked about Ms. And said that she had a sunshine problem and that she was able to address some of her symptoms and how she was feeling with sunlight. Can you talk about. I mean, how many diseases are we missing the sunlight piece for?

All of them. All of them, yeah. I mean, there may be a few, like, very rare, like, genetic diseases, but every disease is going to have be affected by our circadian rhythm and how functional it is. So sometimes people hear that and they're like, oh, well, I spent all my time outside and I still got sick. And it's like, yeah, it's not like the only thing, but it's sort of going back to the food metaphor. Right. Like, if you were eating gummy worms three times a day with a side of Mountain Dew and you switch to eating real food, like, is that going to cure your disease? I don't know. But is it going to help? Yes. That is how we need to think about circadian rhythms. There's the work of a doctor and researcher called Dr. Doug Wallace, and he's basically proved that most, almost all diseases, from cancer to all of the things you just mentioned are mitochondrial diseases. So that means the idea that they're passed on through our genes is less of the issue, and it's more of the health of our mitochondria. And the health of our mitochondria depends on natural light, depends on darkness at night, depends on having optimized circadian rhythms. It is absolutely foundational. So is it like a magic cure? No, of course not. But if it is something that we've totally messed up and then we get it right, is it going to have profound effects on how we feel? Is it going to help us to have fewer symptoms? Most likely.

Paul Bogart has a book called the End of Night. The phrase that he used so much in that book was bright days, dark nights. Bright days, dark nights.

Yes.

And I think that those four words are really powerful. You talk in your podcast and on your website about the history of this, and the history stems back very far. Heliotherapy. I think a lot of people have learned about Florence Nightingale, how she would turn some of the patients to the sun. The science, though, is just now catching up with it. Like you were talking about, the doctors may not know, and this may be pediatricians. You said it could be pediatricians. You know, it could be oncologists. It could be, though your naturopath. They may not know either. They may not have gotten the information you wrote. There is no. Or you say there is no sun lobby. Like, there's a lobby for every pharmaceutical. If there's a new drug coming out, people are going to know about it. But no one's out there lobbying for the sun because there isn't any money in it. You know, pharmaceutical industry is making trillions of dollars, and no one's really making much money off of the sun. Meredith, tell us how you live. So here we are. We're on screens. You have a podcast. So you're in a job environment like many of us are. Work environment, where screens are a part of what you do. What do you try and do on a daily basis to have a optimal light environment?

So, yeah, we, you know, we live. I think it's normal. My children roll their eyes. I had a school concert last night, and I wore. I wore my orange glasses, and my kids are like, oh, mom, really?

But it. Was it because of the fluorescent lights?

Yeah, because the fluorescent lights on in the building. The concerts aren't as bad as Back to school night, because they dim the lights for the performance, whereas back to school night, they have the full coming down on you. But, you know, obviously I still go and, you know, I wear the glasses to help mitigate it on a day to day basis. I'm super mindful of going outside when I wake up. We have a dog. So I get up and I go outside with the dog. And, you know, depending on the schedule of the day, it might be five minutes, it might be 15, it might be 20. But even if it's one minute, that's the first thing that I do. If something's gone totally off and I have to like, rush, it's like I'll crack open the window in the bedroom and crack open the window in the bathroom.

And by saying that, because you talked about that with your kids, you're opening it.

Yes, because the glass that is in most homes has been treated to block out infrared light and block out different frequencies of sunlight in order to make our homes more energy efficient. So that means that even though the brightness is coming through all of those, you know, if you think of the frequencies as nutrients, a lot of the nutrients are getting blocked out by the glass. If you live in a really old house, more than like 60 years old, you may have glass that lets everything through because it hasn't been treated, but most people do not. So you got to crack it.

My midwife asked us about that. So the first time that we had a home birth, she said, this is gonna sound like a really weird question, but how old are your windows? Because she was thinking about for.

She's legit.

I know, I know. Her name is Beth Barbeau. The Indigo Forest. But she would say, like, if they had jaundice, like, what's our plan? If they have jaundice and they need to get light exposure, is your window gonna work? And for the most part, no. Right. Cause the windows aren't old enough. They are too new. But yeah, she's totally legit. That is everything. Meredith and I was always like, she is so odd.

My windows, what's cracking it?

This is like an important thing for a parent to know. I would not have thought that. I mean, when you say cracking a window, you're talking about three, four inches. And that's what. Starting to let the actual light kind of.

Yeah. Even. Even if it's freezing, even half an inch. Anything. Because those photons, they bounce around. Right. So they don't need a lot of space to get in. Now, is it better to be fully outside and have the Window wide open and have it at all. Yes. But even a crack will make a difference. And this is a really, really good tip. If, when you're driving, so it's cold now, but like, I open unless it's pouring rain, I get in my car, I open my sunroof. We went to pick out a new minivan. They're like, how about this one? I'm like, I need a sunroof. That's like my. No, sunroof is the deal breaker. Because then when you're in your car, you're getting all the natural light and your children are getting all the natural light. So if you drive your kids to school, crack the window, even if it's cold, like, just a little crack helps.

In comes the photons.

Yeah, exactly. Like, bring them in as much natural light in the morning as possible, and then waking up as close to sunrise as possible. So that's, you know, depending the time of year. In the summer, it's like five in the morning, and in the winter, you have to get up before the sun. But that time, like from sunrise and those first couple hours after sunrise, like, that's like the juicy, juicy light. You want to get as much light as. As you can.

Okay, so there's a couple other things that you talk about on your social media fantastic information screen. Light has changed over the past 15 years. And Meredith, you had this wonderful set of graphics that really showed. Like, the screens used to be smaller, they used to be further away. Now the kid is on the iPad, and it's right up next to their face. I even remember as a kid, we would be watching cartoons and my grandpa would come over and he would, like, drag us. You know, it was like there was this innate wisdom that your eyes shouldn't be that close to the screen.

Yes.

And so there's been huge changes just over the past 15 years. And then you also talk about how, you know, we talk about where everyone is aware of Big Pharma, Big Food, Big Ag, and they're all sort of in cahoots together. You say, but so is big tech, Big telecom, and the fcc. So it's just important things to know about. You have over 100 podcast episodes that are all fantastic, amazing titles and different concepts that you're talking about on the Quantum Biology Collective podcast. So people can check that out. If you want to get certified, go to IAQB foundation and I'll put the link in the show notes. You could get certified, which would be a cool thing. Sometimes moms do it. Mostly it's healthcare Professionals, but you could go that route. And also then you have your free membership where people can ask [e-mail] so lots of places to go. Meredith, this has been so cool. It's Meredith Oak. I never even said your whole name because we just, like started talking. Meredith Oak, thank you so much for being here. We always end our podcast with the same question. What's a favorite memory from your childhood that was outside?

Oh, I have one. So my mother sent me to a Waldorf school I up until third grade. And I have a memory of going for winter walks in Ottawa, Canada. And we would go to the middle of the forest and they would have each child. We would hold out our mitten and they would put a little bit of bird seed in our hand, and we would hold out our hands and stand still until the chickadees came and took a seed from our palm.

Oh, we have a place that we do that here in Michigan. It's at Kensington Metro Park. And people have been doing it for decades upon decades. And I've posted about it here and there. People get so mad. They're like, you're not supposed to feed the wildlife, you know? But I'm just like, I don't know. It is something that people do in the winter and it's really special and unique and so memorable to do that. There's a cool kids book about it. So, Meredith, this has been such an honor and people can really deep dive the people that you are bringing on your podcast and that you're talking with and then you're sharing with it on your social media. I mean, there's so much to learn here, so much to share with our kids. Thank you so much for being here.

Thank you, Jenny. And thank you for a thousand hours outside. I don't know what divine inspiration led you to put that out in the world, but every time I see you in my feed or I see that name a thousand hours outside, I just feel like, beautiful. Thank you. So thank you, Jenny.

I had no divine inspiration. I was just a crummy mother of young kids. And so there we go. It's been the answer for us for. For many, many years, Meredith. I hope we stay connected. Thank you so much for coming on too.

Thank you.