1KHO 470: How Stories and Small Moments Shape Generations | Leah Boden, Chronicles of Wonder

Summary

The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Summary

Episode: 1KHO 470: How Stories and Small Moments Shape Generations | Leah Boden, Chronicles of Wonder
Release Date: April 28, 2025
Host: Jenny Urich
Guest: Leah Bowden, Author of Chronicles of Wonder

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I. Introduction

In this enriching episode of The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast, host Jenny Urich welcomes back acclaimed author Leah Bowden from the That Sounds Fun Network. Their conversation delves into how stories and seemingly small moments profoundly influence generations, drawing from Bowden's latest works and her insights into childhood development through storytelling.

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II. Leah Bowden's Literary Contributions

a. Modern Ms. Mason

Jenny begins by revisiting Bowden's earlier work, Modern Ms. Mason, highlighting the book's captivating cover featuring a butterfly and a crayon. Bowden reflects on the significance of the cover, sharing how it resonated deeply with both children and adults:

"[02:15] Leah Bowden: ...I burst into tears. I was just so grateful. And I didn't know I had to articulate to her it's not just another book cover. This has actually spoken to a lot of people about freedom."

The butterfly symbolizes freedom, while the crayon represents the unbridled creativity of childhood, setting the tone for Bowden's thematic focus on imagination and growth.

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III. The "Tales of Boldness and Faith" Series

a. Overview of the Series

Bowden introduces her new book series, Tales of Boldness and Faith, which diverges from traditional homeschooling or educational philosophy books. Instead, the series offers engaging biographies that families can explore together. The inaugural titles include:

• Chronicles of Wonder – The story-form life of C.S. Lewis
• The Angel Orphan – Charlotte Mason finds her way home
• Princess Aina – Set to release in August

Jenny shares her experience reading Chronicles of Wonder independently and praises its heartwarming narrative:

"[07:23] Jenny Urich: ...this is so heartwarming. Like, I loved it."

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IV. Educational Themes in Bowden's Work

a. C.S. Lewis's Educational Journey

Bowden delves into C.S. Lewis's formative years, emphasizing his home education and the influence of "living books" as advocated by Charlotte Mason. She articulates how Lewis's education was a blend of structured learning and imaginative exploration:

"[11:18] Jenny Urich: ...he was a reader. Him and his brother read books, and they made it worlds together. And they had this incredible imagination..."

Bowden highlights Lewis's struggles with rigid educational systems and how personalized, one-on-one tutoring played a crucial role in his intellectual and creative development.

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V. The Inklings and Oxford's Literary Circles

a. Influence of the Inklings

The conversation shifts to the Inklings, an Oxford-based literary group that included J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis. Bowden discusses how informal gatherings like these fostered imaginative collaborations:

"[25:07] Jenny Urich: ...people are reading and talking about the Hobbit and the movies that have been made... these incredible things that have a generational impact start with very normal moments."

Bowden illustrates how casual conversations at venues like the Eagle and Child Pub led to the creation of enduring literary works.

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VI. The Power of Storytelling in Overcoming Hardships

a. Stories as Solace and Guidance

Bowden emphasizes the therapeutic role of stories during challenging times, drawing parallels between Lewis's experiences and her own philosophy:

"[37:19] Leah Bowden: ...stories give us hope. They give answers, they share possibilities and different scenarios."

She narrates how stories provided Lewis with comfort during the loss of his mother and the traumas of war, illustrating the enduring impact of narrative on personal resilience.

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VII. Community and Collaborative Learning

a. The Collective Membership on Substack

Bowden introduces her Substack community, The Collective Membership, a digital workspace for lifelong learners and enthusiasts of storytelling. This platform fosters a supportive environment for creative endeavors, including writing, journaling, and homeschooling:

"[50:40] Leah Bowden: ...Substack is where I hang out. We have the collective and it's a gathering of like-minded women who love to read and create."

Participants engage in activities like book clubs, workshops, and collaborative projects, embodying the communal spirit that Bowden champions.

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VIII. Embracing Imagination and Slow Consumption in Modern Times

a. Analog vs. Digital Creativity

Discussing the creative process, Bowden shares her preference for analog tools over digital ones, aligning with her Charlotte Mason-inspired educational approach:

"[53:11] Jenny Urich: ...Jack says clatter interferes with the natural flow of writing. I'd prefer to craft one book by hand, then churn out 10 on a typewriter."
"[53:34] Leah Bowden: ...Mary Oliver... wrote from the hand to the paper."

This dialogue underscores the value of mindful, deliberate creation in fostering deeper cognitive and emotional engagement.

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IX. Conclusion

In wrapping up, Jenny commends Bowden for her profound contributions to children's literature and education, emphasizing the transformative power of stories. Bowden expresses her joy in fostering a community that values deep, meaningful interactions and continuous personal growth.

"[49:07] Jenny Urich: I really couldn't believe how much I got out of this middle grade novel."
"[55:36] Leah Bowden: ...the audiobooks are not out yet. They're coming soon. They're in production."

The episode concludes with heartfelt appreciation for Bowden's work and an invitation for listeners to join her growing community of storytellers and learners.

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Notable Quotes

• "If you like it at 10, you should start like it at 50."
  — Leah Bowden [08:07]

• "Give your child one valuable idea and you have done more for their education than bushels of information."
  — Charlotte Mason (Referenced by Leah Bowden) [20:07]

• "Stories give us hope. They give answers, they share possibilities and different scenarios."
  — Leah Bowden [47:19]

• "If you continue to love Jesus, nothing much can go wrong with you."
  — Leah Bowden [40:54]

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Final Thoughts

This episode of The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast offers a compelling exploration of how stories and intimate moments shape personal and generational growth. Through Leah Bowden's insightful discussions, listeners gain a deeper appreciation for the role of storytelling in education, resilience, and community building. Whether you're a parent, educator, or avid reader, this conversation underscores the timeless value of nurturing imagination and fostering meaningful connections.

Transcript

[Jenny Urich]

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[Leah Bowden]

I know. I am so spoiled with two conversations with you. Yeah, I know. And you're big time now, Ginny. Big time network girl with my favorite network out there. So yeah, it's amazing.

[Jenny Urich]

I am just the spoiled one here. I love what you're doing. The first conversation was about your book Modern Ms. Mason. It's got the coolest cover. That's the one with like the butterfly and the crayon.

[Leah Bowden]

Yeah, I, I know everyone else can see, but it's that. Yeah, the crayon on the, on the. Yeah, I know you liked that. I remember. I love the butterfly on the front.

[Jenny Urich]

I remember when you first put it out on the Internet. Now I like melted. I was like, that's one of the coolest covers I've ever seen.

[Leah Bowden]

Do you know what happened to me, Jenny? I had my kind of congratulations. The book come has come out zoom with my publisher many years ago when it came out and I'd never had any content. I not had any contact with the designer of the book cover. They just sent me all the stuff like they do. And I got various options and. And this has meant a lot of. It's meant a lot to a lot of people. I've had children send me pictures where they have drawn and copied the book cover. And so I knew this is the right one. Anyway, this wrote, I'm not a massive crier, but I am. You know, I like. I get emotional when I need to. And they suddenly went. And. And this is your illustrator. This is the lady who illustrated the front of your book. And I burst into tears. I was just so grateful. And I didn't know I had to articulate to her it's not just another book cover. This has actually spoken to a lot of people about freedom. And that is what a butterfly often represents to people. And I didn't know that. She didn't know that. Um, but God did. And so that's really been really meaningful to me.

[Jenny Urich]

And so does a crayon. Doesn't a crayon represent freedom?

[Leah Bowden]

Absolutely.

[Jenny Urich]

You know when you're like a little child and you just get the paper and you get to do whatever you.

[Leah Bowden]

Want with that crane outside the lines. That's the best thing. Yeah.

[Jenny Urich]

So what a wonderful book. Modern miss Mason. And we talked about that one. And you have a new book series out. And I was really intrigued by it, Leah, because it's actually pretty different. There's a space of moms that write books that are, you know, about homeschooling or home education or educational philosophy, mothering, all of these different types of things. Like, Charlotte Mason just wrote about parenting too. So.

[Leah Bowden]

Right.

[Jenny Urich]

All of these different types of things. But you wanna. So you're kind of like, that's what you expect, Right. From. Like, there's a group of, like, mom friends that are writing books about parenting. And so that's kind of what you expect. And then I get these books and this is a completely different path.

[Leah Bowden]

Yeah.

[Jenny Urich]

They're like biographies.

[Leah Bowden]

Yeah.

[Jenny Urich]

But ones you could read with your family and that are super intriguing and have all this information that you never knew or never even thought to think about or research. So you've got one about CS Lewis. You have one about Charlotte Mason. There's one coming out in August about Princess Aina.

[Leah Bowden]

Yes.

[Jenny Urich]

At what point did you decide to divert and go this direction?

[Leah Bowden]

I think I always wanted to go in this direction, but, you know, the publishing industry is.

[Jenny Urich]

It's.

[Leah Bowden]

It's an incredible beast. And I've. I've always been somewhat of a writer, a wannabe writer. But my bent normally is poetry and stories. And so as a teenager, I wrote poetry prolifically and still love to do that today. I just don't share it very, very often. And so what happened while I was home educating my. My children is that I always love literature. I love reading. But coming into, coming alongside my children and suddenly discovering what Charlotte Mason called a living book and the power of using those books in our own lives and with our children, almost like a new facet of a new understanding of the power of words and the power of story, came alive to me. So I guess putting Ms. May, modern Ms. Mason out, what two pronged one, an introduction into the publishing world, which I am grateful to every single day that it opened a door for me, but it was also me kind of saying, putting my flag in the ground, saying, hey, this is part of my journey. This is what I'm learning, but this is what I truly believe about this philosophy. And now what I'm doing is saying, let me contribute to what you get to offer to your children. And I really felt that. I mean, I mean, you can't see my whole office here, but I have a small collection of my book collection in here. And many of them are vintage books, and they smell amazing when you open them up. But I began to think, do I? Am I going to perpetuate my children and my grandchildren, children's children, having to look for these old books and blow the dust off them? And yes, I want them to love that. But should living books always be in these dusty old papers? Or maybe, maybe, Ginny, some of us who have spent decades reading these kind of books to our children, maybe we can write them for future generations. And so I decided, you know what? There are incredible people out there writing about home education, writing about motherhood, and they still should. But I feel like I did that. I put my little piece out there in modern Ms. Mason, and I love her. But now what I want to do, I'm on a mission to contribute to the feast. I want to contribute to the feast. And so I hope that this is just the beginning of stories. And I mean, you know what it's like. I have a million ideas, so we shall see what unfolds. But these, the first three books have been such a privilege to write, and I'm excited about what could come.

[Jenny Urich]

Oh, I don't know. I guess I didn't really know what to expect because I had read Modern Ms. Mason first, and I, when I opened this book, and I'm like, Obviously this is when you would read with your family, but I just read it for myself. I had them with me on a trip and I read the Chronicles of Wonder, which is the story formed life of C.S. lewis. And then the angel orphan, which is Charlotte Mason, finds her way home. The series is called Tales of Boldness and Faith. And I. I wrote. I mean, this is so heartwarming. Like, I loved it. I loved it.

[Leah Bowden]

And that's one of the things that.

[Jenny Urich]

C S Lewis talked about is he talks about how, like if it. I don't know what the quote is, but it's like if you liked it at 10, if it's a good book.

[Leah Bowden]

Yes.

[Jenny Urich]

It should span the age range.

[Leah Bowden]

Yeah. If you liked it at 10, you should start like it at 50. And I don't know if you notice, but people will start to see that throughout the Chronicles of Wonder, I sometimes paraphrase some of those phrases. So there's a scene where he is after he has been injured in the war and he's in hospital and a nurse is kind of laughing at the fact that he has brought the wind in the willows with him as part of his. What he had on his person. And he says, well, you know, I always believe if I like. If you like a book at 10, you. And I think in the book I say you should like it at 20, because he's around that age at that time. But yeah, he. I mean, he was just the king of imagination and whimsy and wonder, and he brought that as a gift to our children and to adults. But yeah, he was just so great at that, wasn't he? So.

[Jenny Urich]

Well, that's what you did though. You contributed to the Feast. Because I read it and then like I said, I wasn't totally knowing what to expect. And then I was like, oh, I probably was supposed to read this with my kids. I could read it with my kids, but I liked it so much. So no book is really worth reading at 10, which is not equally worth reading at 20. So what an amazing thing to add to your family. Now, I didn't know hardly anything about CS Lewis and I had heard, I guess maybe from Austin Klee, who writes these books about creativity. Like he always talks about these deep dives. He says, learn about who influenced, who influences you.

[Leah Bowden]

Right.

[Jenny Urich]

And I talked to this woman named Heather Lefebvre and she has this website called thenaturejournaler.com, which I was like, nice going on your URL. That's impressive. She studied all of these authors that she loved and where did they live and what was their environment like, and what's the timeline? And like, then you see that they all. I'd heard about the, like, Tolkien, C.S. lewis thing, but, like, I didn't really know. And so this is the coolest thing ever that you did these books.

[Leah Bowden]

I was just gonna say that the challenge with C.S. lewis was that there was so much I could have written about. I mean, I spent. Before I even got the formal contract to write these books, I was studying C.S. lewis's work. So I spent a whole year reading as much as I possibly could by him. And then I switched to books about him. I mean, there are many. And then I had to decide, okay, you know, I have, what is it, like 160, 150 pages? I'm writing for a middle grade audience. What do I possibly bring out of all this that I have absorbed? And so what I came down to was, well, we are. I'm writing this for readers and families and children who love books and will recognize titles. So I thought, okay, let's look at. Let's study the books that informed him. So I wove that through each chapter and I discovered, I mean, there are lists out there. There are amazing scholars of C.S. lewis. I mean, I am, I have so much respect for them. And so I. I began to. Each chapter, I was. I was weaving in a book that influenced him. And so that's how I decided to bring this offering to the children of the world.

[Jenny Urich]

I love it. And like I said, I read it on my own. And I think as I got to the end, I was like, oh, this is supposed to be a family read. But I personally, like, I. I wrote this is such a heartwarming book. And I loved it. And there was lots of O's. It was like, loved. I loved it. And the Charlotte Mason one, too. I just, I didn't know. I didn't know she was an orphan. I didn't know the things that she had gone through. And so I started taking notes and I got to six pages on the C.S. lewis book, and I was like, I'm not going to be able to get any further than six pages, but we can say the Charlotte Mason one for next time. And also, we talked about Charlotte Mason quite a lot in our last conversation. People can go back and listen. We did okay. I didn't even know it stood for Clive Staples. Yeah, I mean, how. It's like, how can you be a person and not everything? Like, what does CS stand for? But he didn't go by that, no.

[Leah Bowden]

He went by Jack, which was after a dog, Jack C. And the dog passed away. But he wanted to be known. He made it known. I want to be known as Jack. And he was. And then he was in childhood in his family and then he would introduce himself as that in adulthood. How cool is that? So, yeah, Jack after a dog.

[Jenny Urich]

And you wonder like how many times did he have to tell that story? Because it's not even anywhere close to Clive.

[Leah Bowden]

It's not. And I wonder before he became a famous published author, I guess you just say, hey, how are you? My name's Jack. And. And then you just kind of roll with it, don't you? But then as he became a professor and began teaching and then all, I mean, yeah, then you saw on his book CS Lewis. But many people would use various different names, wouldn't they, in their. When they were publishing. So I, I don't know, maybe people didn't. It wasn't as strange as we think it is. But. And it's interesting across people who are authors and they use their initials, I always say, oh, that's very. CS Lewis. Yes.

[Jenny Urich]

Well, who does it? Andy Wilson. Oh, Andy Wilson. S.D.

[Leah Bowden]

Smith.

[Jenny Urich]

Andy Wilson. I'm talking to him later today. You know, it comes up in your calendar like Nate Wilson. I'm like, who's that?

[Leah Bowden]

I always like, could I, could I have got away with that? L.V. bowden, Leah Victoria. That's my name.

[Jenny Urich]

Yeah. Okay, so for the rest of the conversation we are going to be calling CS Lewis Jack. So don't get confused. But that kind of points to his childhood. Now his mother died when he was young. Yes, but that's an interesting set of parents who allow their kid to go by a completely different name after a dog that had died.

[Leah Bowden]

Yeah, I know.

[Jenny Urich]

I mean, I don't know if I would do that.

[Leah Bowden]

I don't know. I mean he's, I think what we see, what we understand of his mother and you know, she wasn't around for a long time in his childhood, just a short amount of time. She made a huge impact on him. She did a lot of his teaching and tutoring at home. They would have spent a lot of time together. She seemed like a very warm lady and affectionate and I'm, you know, where would he have. I know that he was very story informed and his ideas and his intellect and imagination came from what he read. But surely all children are influenced by the adults that they spend time with and are around. And I like to believe that his mother was fun and full of whimsy and probably just was like, you know what? Let's go with it. Let's roll with it. Let's call you Jack. That's fine.

[Jenny Urich]

I mean, it would take a special kind of mother who is endearing and who is very invested in their child to say, oh, yes, that dog you loved. Yeah, sure, we'll call you Jack. And. And maybe the mom thinks it's only going to last for a little bit of time. You know, it stuck. And I just thought that was really sweet. And you wrote a lot about his mother and her gardening and her hospitality.

[Leah Bowden]

Yes.

[Jenny Urich]

But he, you know, he loses his mother at a young age, and you start to see this diversion of two paths as it relates to education.

[Leah Bowden]

Right.

[Jenny Urich]

And I'm assuming that you sort of did that on purpose to kind of. I mean, it's just sort of what happened. But you kind of highlight these two different types of education. The mother passes, and then the boys, because of that, they end up going to these boarding schools where they got an education. But also they already had this very broad education through the living books and through discussion and narration and talking about these types of things.

[Leah Bowden]

Right.

[Jenny Urich]

So can you talk about. Was that just sort of like a factual part of the book, or were you. Was there any. I mean, as you. As you read it, you kind of get out of it. It makes you think about what education is, right?

[Leah Bowden]

Yeah. And what's interesting, Jenny, about the whole this, the first three books in the series is that all three of our characters were at some point educated at home. And again, going into it, I didn't realize that there are so many similarities in the. In all three books in the series. And Jack, we hear often about his terrible experience at boarding school. And I'd heard stories, I'd read biographies, but I didn't know the whole expanse of his educational journey. But he was a reader. Him and his brother read books, and they made it worlds together. And they had this incredible imagination that his mother. They had a tutor as well, but his mother helped with the Latin and would, you know, read books to him. And they had some formal education at home as well. And then, as you say, there was then this experience in a couple of boarding schools, which were terrible experiences for Jack. One was treated poorly, and all the students, where all the boys were. And he is careful in his own telling of that time in what he communicates to us, but you can read between the lines that there was, you know, bad treatment going on, and one of the schools was finally shut down because of how Poorly it was run. And so he's having this, this experience of somewhat of an education. He will have been learning. He was, he seemed like a hungry boy who was a fund for knowledge. But really the breakthrough for him again came during an opportunity to have one on one tuition. So he's had mum and then he has this schooling experience in various places which he battles with but will have. He still would have grown and learned. And then he gets to go to Suffolk with this, the great knock, the nickname. And this is a friend of his father's who I believe was a teacher hit one of his father's teachers. And so his brother is educated by him First Warnley. And then he asks I want to go too. Can I go and get this kind of education? He saw in his brother just this growth of interest and intellect and just conversational intrigue by because of what he was reading and learning about. And so he got to be a student under the tutelage of this lovely old man. And that really was the making of him because that is where he began to study for the Oxford exams and then his journey then took us to Oxford. So I think what I, what we see is he continued to grow and learn and I do believe he was a self motivated to grow and learn. But the real fruit, the delight came in the one on one tutoring from his mother and then from the. The tutor and stuff like. So I think that you know, so many children will be able to relate to that. Actually I just want to be with one person. I just want to. And that not everybody, you know, not every child thrives in a group or in a classroom as we know. And we see that growth happening in Jack's life from those times.

[Jenny Urich]

Yeah. When you read it you sort of get this sense of expansion.

[Leah Bowden]

Yes.

[Jenny Urich]

And you're like well what could it be? And does that count? Because he goes to this school that's very strict, the one that got shut down. Which is surprising. I mean you would think it had to be pretty bad, you know, at that point.

[Leah Bowden]

And it was small, I mean they were what, eight, nine, nine students there and it. Yeah, it must have been really bad for it to be. Yeah. Shut down.

[Jenny Urich]

Yeah, yeah, they shut it down and then, and then he even talked about how, you know, the rote learning and rigid teaching methods, it just didn't stick. So it shows this one path of education with the rote learning and the rigid teaching and, and that type of thing. And then on the other hand you have this education that's just, it's Just discussions. Yes, it's robust discussions. That was a phrase that you used.

[Leah Bowden]

That's right.

[Jenny Urich]

Robust discussions. And I really loved that. Like that was enough. Yeah, because then that theme, it was all the way through, like he's having robust discussions. As a child, as a young child now he has these couple years where he's at these boarding schools and it's not happening and he's miserable. But then he has this friend Arthur, who he didn't even want to go hang out with, but this kid was sick. And then he goes and hangs out with them and then they discover they have this mutual love for books and it. Like this piece of discussing literature that is the mainstay throughout his whole life.

[Leah Bowden]

Yes. Yeah. And he, you know, I always. I'm just as you're talking, I'm thinking about a Charlotte Mason quote. Charlotte Mason said, give your child one valuable idea and you have done more for their education than bushels of information. And I think that we see that through him, all the way through that. All he needed was one great idea, one great discussion, one story, one conversation. And he was given the space and time to linger on it, to think about it, to mull, meditate on it. We see this expanse of thoughts come from him. I mean, he was writing poetry after he came through the war. He was. And he actually thought that's what he wanted to do. He wanted to become a poet. And unfortunately he. Well, people can read the story, but he didn't do too well. I mean, he did write the poetry, but it didn't do what he thought it would do. And I, and I love that idea with him. I saw that so much like give a child one single valuable idea and that will do more for them than hours and hours and hours and hours of rote memorization or classroom work. And we really see him come alive with. Just let me think about Norse mythology for a while. And then we see that through his work, don't we? In his later life and in his adult life.

[Jenny Urich]

And isn't it interesting that a mother could be listening right now who has a seven year old and that seven year old has different passions that they're showing. It is possible that that singular passion.

[Leah Bowden]

Yes.

[Jenny Urich]

And Jack had this passion for stories, that that singular passion could be the foundation for their whole life and something that they do all the way throughout their life. Because here he is talking with his friend Arthur and talking at the table and talking with his family about these books. And then when he goes to Oxford, that's also what he does, right vacation season is nearly upon us. We are actually spending a week at the ocean in South Carolina soon and I can't wait. This year I'm treating myself to the luxe upgrades with Quince's high quality travel essentials at fair prices. There are super cute lightweight European linen styles from $30, washable silk tops and comfy lounge sets and they even have premium luggage options and stylish tote bags to carry it all. The best part? All Quince Items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. By partnering directly with top factories, Quince cuts out the cost of the middleman and passes the savings on to us. And Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. I love that. I can't wait to slip on their 100% organic cotton crew sweater and slide into their Italian leather platform sandals for those cool evening walks on the beach. For your next trip, treat yourself to the luxe upgrades you deserve from quince. Go to quince.com outside for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's Q U I n c e.com outside to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quinn's.com outside this episode is brought to you by Chevy Silverado when it's time for you to ditch the blacktop and head off road, do it in a truck that says no to nothing. The Chevy Silverado Trail Boss get the rugged capability of its Z71 suspension and 2 inch factory lift, plus impressive torque in towing capacity thanks to an available Duramax 3 liter turbo diesel engine. Where other trucks call it quits, you'll just be getting started. Visit chevy.com to learn more.

[Leah Bowden]

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[Jenny Urich]

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[Leah Bowden]

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[Jenny Urich]

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[Leah Bowden]

It is the Tolkien thing. And so here we are introduced to this group called the Inklings. Now Oxford still to this day has, has and back then had many gatherings of thinkers and people who wanted to discuss certain things and they would gather around ideas so Talk about another group that Tolkien ran and they talked about Norse mythology and Norse books.

[Jenny Urich]

Yeah, there was a couple. There was a couple of them. Do you say Tolkien or Tolkien?

[Leah Bowden]

I probably said both. Do you say Tolkien?

[Jenny Urich]

Do you say Tolkien? I don't really know.

[Leah Bowden]

So I'm like, so Tolkien. I would. I know. And people be like, they're already irritated. I would say Tolkien. That's okay.

[Jenny Urich]

We're going to. We're going with you. Because people are like, I'm done with her. She's saying it weird. Okay, so you say Tolkien, and he called him Tollers. I mean, like, they. Yeah, like nicknames for each other.

[Leah Bowden]

Yes, I know.

[Jenny Urich]

I love that, John. Ronald Reule rule.

[Leah Bowden]

Yeah. Yeah. You've got it in front of you. Yeah, yeah, I know. Any interesting idea? Himself?

[Jenny Urich]

Yes, John. So this is John and Jack. So they were in one group called Kolbatar.

[Leah Bowden]

That's right, yeah. And so this was the one that he was invited into. And I wonder if that, you know, there's so much in biography where you go, I wonder if. Or this possibly could have happened. But I think that's probably where the inspiration for then the Inklings, which was this gathering of people talking, men talking about literature, happened. And so the Inklings was a group that would come together and talk about what they were reading and what they were writing. And very much towards the end was very much what they were writing. And this is where the ideas formed for. Yeah. The Hobbit and the Chronicles of Narnia. And, you know, they were good friends. They had their fallouts, but we understand that they were real sounding boards for each other as they were coming up with these ideas, especially when Tolkien was writing the Hobbit. And so can you. I mean, I do paint one scene where they're in the Eagle and Child Pub, which is the famous. One of the pubs that they would gather in in Oxford. They're reading, and Tolkien is reading aloud a section from the Hobbit to Jack. And I just. I loved immersing myself in that moment, just imagining hearing those descriptions and that language for the very first time. And little did they know the impact that story would have on, you know, still to this day, 2025, where people are reading and talking about the Hobbit and the movies that have been made. And I love thinking about that, Ginny, that these incredible things that have a generational impact start with very normal moments. Sat around a meal or a coffee, or for them, it would have been a glass of beer in the pub, but that would have Been a very normal moment for them in their friendship and in their Oxford life. That was just so normal to sit around talking about what you're writing and reading, and yet look what developed. Look what grew out of that. I just love that we never know what those little conversations and those moments can grow into, the fruitfulness of those.

[Jenny Urich]

And that started as a child.

[Leah Bowden]

I know.

[Jenny Urich]

When you talked about the normal moments, I thought you were gonna refer to sitting around their family's table. It's both. It was all just these normal things.

[Leah Bowden]

It's both.

[Jenny Urich]

And it was a different time in the world when the kids are not on screens, right?

[Leah Bowden]

Yeah. And you see that, don't you? I mean, the opening scene of this book, he's in the attic space above the house reading a book by Nesbitt, the Amulet. And his brother arrives home for the summer. And there's this whole conversation that goes on and there is this sense all the way through of having that delicious time and space to read and think, to read and think. And I. I have been pondering a lot over the past few weeks and days, just this idea of that, having that single thought and how ideas shape our lives, but we have to let them take root. And so we are constantly bombarded by information and, you know, we will be having ideas. So I've started to ask my. I've got teenage and adult kids now, but I've started to ask my teens who are at home. Tell me something you've been thinking about today. What thought has captivated you? What thought has been lingering with you? Tell me about that. So I was driving with my 16 year old a couple of days ago. I was dropping him off at a youth event and I was like, tell me what you've been thinking about. And he had been. And he started to share with me and it was just great. And then I was like, can I share with you what I've been thinking about? And so we had this lovely moment and I thought, what a great question to ask each other. What are you thinking about? I think so often in motherhood we can be so consumed with like the responsibilities. Our minds are consumed with what must be done. And I would love for us to be a little bit more, have some space, create room for. Not just about what has to be done, but what can I dream about, what can be pondered on? I am definitely going more down that road of how do I consume or not even just consume seems like a. Not the right word. But what am I seeing and sensing and putting myself in the way of that will fuel thoughts and ideas rather than the anxious feeling that you get from scrolling your phone or looking at your to do list. Yeah, let's get back to that. Let's think a little bit more. And you see that, I mean I picked that up writing these three stories which are all kind of 18, 19, hundreds. There's a lot more sitting and thinking going on. There's a lot more.

[Jenny Urich]

Or walking and thinking. Walking and thinking out in nature and thinking. Yeah, so much. You really do get that sense of space.

[Leah Bowden]

Yes.

[Jenny Urich]

And time. And even with Jack, he, you know, he was doing these patrols during the war.

[Leah Bowden]

Right.

[Jenny Urich]

And he talked about how during those walks it just like there was time for him to take these ideas and let them simmer and sink. And you would think about how much more depth, like if you're reading a novel and you're talking about it, the depth of that in comparison to a 30 second TikTok video.

[Leah Bowden]

Right.

[Jenny Urich]

I mean it's so completely different. One of the things that stuck out to me to Leah was so when Warnie. So Warny is the older brother.

[Leah Bowden]

Yeah.

[Jenny Urich]

Warny lives 10 years longer. So that was really interesting to me.

[Leah Bowden]

I know.

[Jenny Urich]

You know, it's like, well, what if Jack would have lived another 10 years? I know, Interesting, right? Like you lose a lot. So Warnie is the older brother now. He goes off to boarding school. So I don't know how old he is, but he's like, you've got to be old ish to go to boarding school. You're not going to boarding school when you're nine, probably. And when he comes back, they're up in the attic making stories. So it says, I hope, I hope schooling hasn't squashed your imagination. You know, there's adventures to be had in boxing. Boxing is this make believe world that they had invented. And Jack wrote about Animal Land and Warny writes tales about India and then they merge their ideas and they create boxing. So I don't know how old Warny would have been. I mean, Maybe he was 11. But you get this sense that these childhood imaginative times lasted longer.

[Leah Bowden]

Yes, yes. I mean childhood lasted longer. Absolutely. And even, I mean, I would say C.S. lewis is such a great example of giving us permission for childhood to linger into adulthood. Just those little comments about enjoying a book, a children's book should be able to be enjoyed in adulthood as well. I mean, there's so many summers that I think I'm just going to read the Narnia series. I just want to, you know, pick that back up and Absolutely love it. And I think he's a great example of that, of kind of this permission giving of why does wonder and whimsy and imagination have to be something that only belongs to children? And also we are the ones who have to help cultivate that in them. I grew up, my. My mother is amazing, creative person. And she for many, many years would. We'd all sit on her bed at the end of the day. I have two siblings. And she would tell us. She would make up stories about this flying carpet and land, magical lands that she would take all from her head, like just completely make all these stories up. And they. That what that did in me, myself, my sister, my brother, it really did cultivate imagination and fan into flame. That kind of. It's okay to have these amazing ideas and for things not to make sense. And stories in childhood can really help a child through important seasons of their life. I mean, all these books that I've written recently, they cover grief and they cover displacement. You know, children having to be uprooted and be placed somewhere else. And, you know, you're writing them thinking these are not all happy clappy and. But actually they're real things that so many children go through. Yet in the midst of that, there's still wonder, there's still beauty. I really saw that. Yeah, definitely in Jack's life and the others as well. And that's important for children to understand. There can still be beauty, beauty and wonder in the midst of change or hardship.

[Jenny Urich]

And what a gift for Jack to do that because stories helped him through his grief.

[Leah Bowden]

Yes.

[Jenny Urich]

You had written about how he would wake up in the morning and just be so sad. He would have such an ache, you know, and he'd realize that his mom was not there anymore. He didn't know how to talk about it. His dad had kind of closed off and he wrote about how it was the books. The books were the places that he could escape to. He would find solace there.

[Leah Bowden]

That's right.

[Jenny Urich]

And then it would inspire him to be adventurous. And so then what did he do? He turned around and did the same thing for other children. Right. What a thing to take what influenced you and to say, I'm going to be a vessel to do this for others. And one of my favorite parts of the book was when. So he's taking care of his friend's mother, which that was. I didn't know about this. So his. Yeah, his friend gets killed in the war. And they had made this pact that if either one of them dies, that they're Gonna take care of the other one's family. So he's living with his friend's mother, Ms. More.

[Leah Bowden]

That's right.

[Jenny Urich]

And she says, jack, what do you know about children? Because he's writing these children's books, and he says, I was.

[Leah Bowden]

I was one.

[Jenny Urich]

Yeah, I was one.

[Leah Bowden]

I know. What else do you need to know? I was a child. I understand childhood.

[Jenny Urich]

Yeah.

[Leah Bowden]

I love that.

[Jenny Urich]

Yes. And he had a depth of childhood because of all those books and all the imagination and all of that time and space. Here's something I had no idea about, never even thought about. Obviously, C.S. lewis has written all of these books that are about faith, Mere Christianity and the Screwtape Letters. And I've read a lot of these.

[Leah Bowden]

Me, too.

[Jenny Urich]

I would have just thought that's how he grew up, and that was what was going on in his family. I mean, I had no idea. I didn't know any of it. I knew none of the things. Like you said. You've read all these books about him. I knew zero of the things. I didn't know that his mother had passed away. I didn't know about the boarding school, and I didn't know about the faith piece. And Tolkien talking.

[Leah Bowden]

Yes. So important to that journey. Yeah.

[Jenny Urich]

Yes. The power of stories, my friend. This is what Tolkien says. The power of stories, my friend, lies in their ability to resonate with our deepest longings. And the gospel story, above all others, speaks to the core of who we are. And then they have this conversation about, is the gospel myth or legend, or is it real? And what does Tolkien say?

[Leah Bowden]

Well, you've got it in front of you.

[Jenny Urich]

I do have it in front of me. Sorry. You could paraphrase it. I didn't know if you wanted. I felt like I was talking to you.

[Leah Bowden]

Well, because. Why? No, not at all. I was just gonna say. He always points the question back, doesn't he? I should find. I thought you were about to read it to us.

[Jenny Urich]

Well, it's on page 85. I was in that spot where I was like, I've really been talking too long. So I'm gonna toss it back to Leah.

[Leah Bowden]

Okay.

[Jenny Urich]

Cause you just looked at me.

[Leah Bowden]

I'm like, well, okay. Tolkien nodded, looking serious. The power of stories, my friend, lies in their ability to resonate with our deepest longings. And the gospel story, above all others, speaks to the core of who we are. Jack leaned forward, his curiosity piqued. But tolas, how can we be sure it's more than just a story? He asked. What about the historical reality of Jesus's resurrection. Tolkien sat up in his chair. Ah, but that's where the beauty lies, he said. The gospel story isn't just a myth or a legend. There are historical facts and tangible evidence surrounding the resurrection of Jesus. It's a truth that has stood the test of time. Jack looked inquisitive as he considered Tolkien's words. But how do we know? He pressed, a hint of uncertainty in his voice. Tolkien answered, we examine the evidence, Jack. We delve into the historical accounts, the eyewitness testimonies, the archaeological findings. And when we do, we find that Jesus's resurrection is not just a belief, it's a historical reality. He continued, he basically encourages him to keep. He says, keep reading, my friend. You'll find it for yourself. But it's true. He is all truth.

[Jenny Urich]

And you wrote that this is a turning point in Jack's spiritual journey. I think everybody listening is going to say that I made the right choice in having you read that, because that was way cooler. That was way better than I loved.

[Leah Bowden]

Good reading.

[Jenny Urich]

That was wonderful.

[Leah Bowden]

Okay.

[Jenny Urich]

I feel. I feel confident in my choice to kick it back to you, because that was wonderful. There was this whole page where you say, so this changes his spiritual journey. And I talked to Sarah Clarkson, Sally's daughter. Yes, I love the Clarksons and all they've written. And Sarah says that it's Tolkien's books that changed her spiritual walk.

[Leah Bowden]

That's right.

[Jenny Urich]

What a cool thing. I know that this is the gospel story personified in these different ways. So then when you talk about the change, there's this whole page on page 88 called. I feel like it's like maybe Jesus. That's what I wrote it down in my notes. I called it the maybe Jesus page. He starts to say, well, maybe Jesus is the one who helped me get through those tough days at school, guiding me when things got hard. Maybe Jesus was the comforting presence when my mother passed away, giving me a shoulder to lead on, to lean on. Do you want to keep going? Because your voice is cooler than mine.

[Leah Bowden]

Maybe Jesus was the companion who kept me company when Warnie wasn't around, making sure I didn't feel alone in the war. Maybe he was the ally who stood by my side, giving me courage on the battlefield. Maybe Jesus helped me navigate my relationship with my father, offering advice when things got tough. And when he passed away, maybe he was there to comfort me in my grief. Has Jesus always been there? Has he never left me? Never been disappointed in me? Never been afraid of my questions or choices? Was Jesus there then? Is he here now.

[Jenny Urich]

Wow. The maybe Jesus page. And there was a sentence that said, and it was right near the end, if you continue to love Jesus, nothing much can go wrong with you. Wow. It was one of the last letters that Jack wrote in his final days to a young girl.

[Leah Bowden]

Yes.

[Jenny Urich]

And even the. Even the dedication, I meant to circle back to this earlier. The dedication to Lucy, who was his goddaughter.

[Leah Bowden]

His goddaughter, that's right.

[Jenny Urich]

He says you'll. You'll come back to these. When does he say something about the. The fairy tales, that the good literature for kids is still the good literature for adults? This dedication is to the goddaughter Lucy. Someday you'll be old enough to read fairy tales again. I know, because he says it took him longer to write it than maybe he thought. And so maybe she's in those kind of teen years or right in the middle. But he says, you're going to love fairy tales again. And so this Narnia story, which is above all the story of the Gospel, has just been one that has captured kids and adults all over the world. And here's something that I didn't know. Eczema isn't always obvious, but it's real. And so is the relief from EBGLIS. After an initial dosing phase of 16 weeks, about 4 in 10 people taking EPGLIS achieved a itch relief and clear or almost clear skin. And most of those people maintain skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly dosing. EBGLIS Lebricizumab LBKZ, a 250mg 2ml injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis, that is not well controlled. With prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals, or who cannot use topical therapies. Epglis can be used with or without topical. Topical corticosteroids. Don't use. If you're allergic to ebglis, allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Epglis. Before starting Epglis, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection searching for real relief. Ask your doctor about eglis and visit epgliss.lily.com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979. Out here, there's no one way of doing things. No one really rules. And no shortage of adventure. Because out here, the only requirement is having fun. Bank of America invites kids 6 to 18 to golf with Us for a limited time. Sign them up for a free one year membership, giving them access to discounted Tetons at thousands of courses. Learn [e-mail] golf with us what would you like the power to do? Bank of America restrictions apply. See BFA.com golf with us for complete details. Copyright 2025 bank of America America Corporation. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. You might say all kinds of stuff when things go wrong, but these are the words you really need to remember. Like a good neighbor. State Farm is there. They've got options to fit your unique insurance needs, meaning you can talk to your agent to choose the coverage you need. Have coverage options to protect the things you value most. File a claim right on the State Farm mobile app and even reach a real person with. You need to talk to someone like a good neighbor. State Farm is there. So in the movie. I remember watching the movie. I don't remember when the movies came out, but they've been out for a while. So I remember watching the movies as a kid.

[Leah Bowden]

Yes.

[Jenny Urich]

And you see the kids coming in on the train. I have a distinct memory of this, thinking, that would be terrifying. Right. You know, they're trying to get away from the bombings and they're going out to the countryside and the four siblings and they have their luggage. And I have a distinct memory of that. Well, they actually did that.

[Leah Bowden]

Yeah.

[Jenny Urich]

This operation Pied Piper.

[Leah Bowden]

Pied Piper, that's right.

[Jenny Urich]

I didn't know that. Yeah.

[Leah Bowden]

Oh, yeah. Children. I mean, I. I have a friend who is in her late 70s. Her brothers. She tells. She has stories about her brothers being sent to the countryside from the city. They had a little luggage tag on their coat. So they wore a luggage tag with their name and where they come from and maybe some information. And that would. And then they would go to the home. So the kilns where Jack was living, they hosted many children. And so this is where people think the inspiration for those children came from is his actual experience of seeing that. Yeah. And I wanted to tie in there, obviously. I think that the Operation Pied Piper was something that I. In my research for this book, I came across. I'd never heard that term before, even though I've studied First and Second World War at length. We do that in the English school system. And I thought how interesting, you know, knowing, suddenly realizing that's what it was called. And, and then this, the sympathy of the, the households and how they felt about them coming. But then immediately for these children in, in the story I've written, the hospitality that they experienced and the love and, and almost it was like we have an audience to read stories to. I'm sure they, yeah. Were able to.

[Jenny Urich]

Well, the kids needed that. The kids needed that. I mean it is, it was jaw dropping to me that, that this opening scene of that movie where it really touched me because I thought I would be terrified in that situation that he actually did that. And I think all the way through the book is the maybe Jesus, because here he is like, okay, he's living with the soldiers mother now his mother has passed away. And this is a super, to me, kind of a random situation.

[Leah Bowden]

Yeah.

[Jenny Urich]

He probably didn't know that soldier's mother. It's possible he didn't know the soldier's mother ahead of time.

[Leah Bowden]

No.

[Jenny Urich]

And then he's fulfilling this duty to this friend of his. So he's living with this woman, Mrs. Moore. And so together with Jack and Warny and Mrs. Moore, they are providing this hospitable place for kids who are probably terrified. Right. And who are been displaced like you talked about. So Mrs. Moore says, let's hope our home offers them a sanctuary that they remember kindness and warmth, not just the horror of war. And then they go to stories because they say the good story just might be what they need to feel a little bit more at home. Jack's house continued to be a haven for children, some as young as babies, who are evacuated from London. And this is where he's just telling all of these stories to them. And they talk about, he talks about with Tolkien, about how even in tough times people still need stories. Why do people still need stories even in tough times?

[Leah Bowden]

I think even more than ever, I mean we see story. I mean Jesus told stories, he told parables, you know, that that was how he, he knew he would reach the human heart is to tell a story for us to be able to understand with our minds and our hearts and then be able to respond with our lives. And stories continue to do that. And that's why it's important that we find the stories that reflect so many different ways of life that children can see themselves in. And we can see all these different experiences through these stories. But they are so powerful. And what I love about reading stories to children is that you never know, each child can respond in a different way. And that's the, the power of narration from within the Charlotte Mason philosophy is that you're actually asking them to contribute to that discussion. When you say to them, hey, tell me, tell me what you heard or what would you have done in that situation? Or what do you think happened next? It gets them to contribute to the story and then what comes out of that is amazing. But stories give us hope. They give answers, they share possibilities and different scenarios and readers. When you have a conversation with a reader, there's generally a story somewhere that when I read this, or it could be a poem, it could be a short story, it could be a novel, it could be, you know, anything. But I think there are, there are so many stories from our childhoods that linger with us and I think, you know, home educated children who are generally read to and read so much, don't they? I think how amazing that we are raising a generation who are story formed also, to use a Sarah Clarkson phrase.

[Jenny Urich]

Yeah, I couldn't, I really couldn't believe how much I got out of this middle grade novel.

[Leah Bowden]

Ginny, you are making me so happy. It thrills my heart.

[Jenny Urich]

You're the one who used the phrase middle grades novel. I was like, okay.

[Leah Bowden]

I mean, yeah, I mean the idea is that, I mean, I said at the beginning of our conversation I wanted to contribute to the feast and I hope to continue to do that. But lots of the feedback has come back, has come back from mothers going, I loved this and then reading it aloud. But I one little girl this week read, she's nine years old and she read the Angel Orphan all by herself. And her mum shared online, she finished the book and said, I finished the book. I loved it. Please tell Leah Bowden. You must tell her. But then she had more questions because, you know, I know we're not discussing this particular book, but Charlotte Mason never married, didn't have children. And so she was then seeing the book through her experience of her mother and the women around her. And she came out of the reading with more questions. And that again is great to me that thrills my heart, that, that we. And the same with Jax. But people have been saying, messaging me or just, you know, dming saying, tell me more about this bit. Where can we find out more about this? So I love that. That thrills my heart. It's, that's exciting.

[Jenny Urich]

And if people are wanting to have something like a little inklings, you have that you have a collective membership, you're over at Substack where you know, these are lifelong learners and people who Love to read. And you do a digital workspace. Can you tell people about that, where they can find it?

[Leah Bowden]

Yeah. So I mean if you go over to my website, leahboden.com everything will point you in the right direction from there. But Substack is where I hang out. We have the collective and it's a gathering of like minded women who love to read and create and yeah, so once a week we, we have a, it's almost like a we workspace where you just come on to zoom. We, we put some gentle music on. You can turn it off if you want. And it's so cool, Ginny, because you've got all these faces on the screens and some people are like doing a craft. Some people are writing their novel, some people are journaling, some people are planning their homeschool week. I mean I did so much of my editing and writing on those and you all. And it's kind of that co working space brilliant for people with ADHD because you do that body doubling. And so we're all in that one space and so many like really productive. I, I say to everybody before we start, have a peaceful and productive hour. And I. People are like booking babysitters and like putting it in their calendars for the week. So we do that and we have a book club. We're always. We just finished Jane Eyre. I do workshops, you know, obviously continuously helping and encouraging people educate their children using the ideas of Charlotte Mason. I mean there's tons. We do something every single week on that together we look at art together, we read poetry. So if you're interested and want to find a community like that, come and hang out with us. Come and hang out.

[Jenny Urich]

It's really worthwhile because there's not much else like that. And it's really needed in an age of distraction to have those, we have to have those infusions of reminders and that there's other people out there that are valuing slower pace, that are valuing a deeper dive. So it's called the collective membership. It would be very similar to being part of like the Rabbit Rumor, the Inklings, and with people in a, in a global capacity. I want to hit two more things that really stuck out to me. One was that, okay, Jack didn't like typewriters. And I started off by talking about Austin Kleon who says, you know, learn about who influences who influences. And Austin talks a lot about having two separate workspaces that you have, you know, you've got your digital thing because you've got to send Something off to a publisher. But also he has an analog workspace that's markers and paper and Sharpies and like, that's it. So he'll. He'll go back and forth between the two and he makes sure that he uses the analog. He wrote. Jack says clatter interferes with the natural flow of writing. I'd prefer to craft one book by hand, then churn out 10 on a typewriter. So I just thought that was really. That's interesting.

[Leah Bowden]

I know Mary Oliver, she didn't. She. I remember hearing an interview with her and Krista Tippett and she did not like computers, typewriters. She said the poet should write from the hand to the paper. So she would just walk around the woods with a notebook and a pen and. Yeah, so she was. Do not. You must write them down. So I thought there was a great similarity there.

[Jenny Urich]

You did such an incredible job, Leah, of infusing all of these different principles that will spark ideas for kids and adults. That would be one example, the typewriter one. But, you know, the attic space. Like all of these different things. Like, as a reader, you come away with like, oh, maybe I should try that. I just thought, what a cool thing to take away from a biography of. I haven't thought about trying things that way. And I just found that that was so impactful. I loved it. I mean, I loved it so much. I love both of them. So this is called Chronicles of Wonder, the story form life of C.S. lewis. Tales of Boldness and Faith series by Leah Bowden. The angel orphan is the other one that's already out and available. Charlotte Mason finds her way home. The last thing, and I had no idea, and this was actually just a really short part of the book, was that the popularity of the series Narnia series came with a flood of criticism. Oh, yeah, I didn't know. I. I guess, of course that's like how life is, but I did not know that. I mean, C S Lewis is so cherished and so beloved and people talk about him, you know, with such beautiful honor and revere and love, but he had all sorts of things thrown at him. Everything from his theology to his right to write for children, especially since he didn't have any of his own.

[Leah Bowden]

That's right.

[Jenny Urich]

I was glad that you put that in there. He had hard things. He got tons of rejection. And I think it's important to know that everybody sacrifices.

[Leah Bowden]

Absolutely. And I think that's probably encouraging for writers. You know, like, not every Amazon review is five stars and CS Lewis would have known that too. So, yeah, everyone's open to their own opinion. But it's interesting, isn't it?

[Jenny Urich]

I have always been. I'm like, why are people so interested in going to Oxford?

[Leah Bowden]

It is a beautiful city.

[Jenny Urich]

But I'm like, people are just so into that. I've like thought this so many times in my life. They're like, you just have to. And I've been like, well, why? And then I read the book and I was like, oh, that's why. Now I want to come.

[Leah Bowden]

Because I was like, yeah. And I. And I, that's the big deal. I hang out there with our mutual friend Rachel Kovac. We got to hang out in Oxford together, which was so beautiful. Beautiful. It is a really beautiful city. There is something really special, especially I mean, if you can go to an evening, even song service at modeling college. It's pretty life changing. It's incredible. And so, yeah, I live about an hour, an hour 15 from Oxford, so I try and hang out there as much as I can.

[Jenny Urich]

Yeah, I mean, I've all. I've always been confused. I think that's been. I think I'm like, why do people care about that place so much? You know, you hear people talk about it all the time.

[Leah Bowden]

You need to come.

[Jenny Urich]

It was your, your book that I was like, oh, yeah, actually I do really want to go there.

[Leah Bowden]

So I got to record. So the audiobooks are not out yet. They're coming soon. They're in production. But I actually recorded the audiobooks in a studio in Oxford. So that was quite a cool twist. It was great.

[Jenny Urich]

Leah, I adore you. Like talking with you, it's so bananas because this is only the second time we've ever talked. And it's so easy and it's so life giving. And that's like what they talked about with C. S Lewis, that it was just an overflow. There was a sentence that said, this is just an overflow, you know, of what's coming out of his heart and his experiences he spoke and shared. What was an overflow of a life well lived and personal time well spent. That's like what you are.

[Leah Bowden]

Oh, oh, thank you. Thank you.

[Jenny Urich]

And you also write poetry. Oh, there's so many cool similarities here. Leah, I'm so proud of you and it's so cool that you are contributing like in a different way to this. The books that are available to families and to kids and I cannot wait to read the next one. And thank you so much for spending this time with us.

[Leah Bowden]

Thank you, Ginny, for inviting me back on. It's been amazing. Hi dear one, I'm Dr. Edie Wadsworth.

[Jenny Urich]

Your new favorite Christian life coach, and.

[Leah Bowden]

I want to invite you to the House of Joy podcast. If you're a woman over 40 or the daughter of one who wants to.

[Jenny Urich]

Build a positive mindset, healthier habits, and thriving relationships, this is the show for you.

[Leah Bowden]

We talk about personal growth, faith resilience, and creating a life you're obsessed with.

[Jenny Urich]

So if you're tired of feeling stuck and ready to step into more joy.

[Leah Bowden]

And purpose, come join us. Listen now wherever you get your podcast. Are you looking for your new favorite.

[Jenny Urich]

Podcast that's both entertaining and will challenge you in your walk with Jesus? Hey, we're Mackie Kenz from the for the Girl podcast. Every Tuesday, we break down everything that we wish someone had told us in our 20s, from faith and relationships to wild career transitions. We're getting real about all of our mess ups and the things God has.

[Leah Bowden]

Taught us along the way. Think of us as your hilarious weekly.

[Jenny Urich]

Dose of honest conversation with your Internet besties who've been exactly where you currently are. So come check out for the Girl.

[Leah Bowden]

On Apple, Spotify, or wherever you love.

[Jenny Urich]

To listen to podcasts. And make sure to click Follow on our show so that each new episode is dropped right into your personal feed.