1KHO 472: Exercise is the Opposite of Stress | Anders Hansen, The Real Happy Pill

Summary

Episode Summary: The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast | 1KHO 472: Exercise is the Opposite of Stress with Anders Hansen

Introduction

In the premiere episode of "The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast," hosted by Jenny Urich from the That Sounds Fun Network, Jenny welcomes Anders Hansen, a renowned psychiatrist and author of The Real Happy Pill (also known as The Mind Body Method). Released on April 30, 2025, this episode delves deep into the profound impact of physical activity on mental health, cognitive function, and overall well-being.

The Importance of Exercise for Brain Health

Anders Hansen begins by sharing his journey into understanding the intersection of exercise and mental health. As a psychiatrist with a keen interest in medical research, Anders noticed a surprising trend over the past decade: multiple studies highlighted how exercise profoundly benefits not just the body but the brain as well. He emphasizes, “Exercise improves all of our cognitive functions. It makes us more focused, it makes us more creative, it makes us more tolerant to stress. And actually, exercise even seems to increase our intelligence somewhat” (02:10).

One pivotal study discussed involves MRI scans of 60-year-olds, revealing that individuals who engaged in regular walking experienced a remarkable 2% increase in hippocampus size, counteracting the typical 1% annual shrinkage associated with aging (03:39). This finding, further confirmed by a meta-analysis, underscores the brain's exceptional responsiveness to physical activity.

Exercise vs. Antidepressants

A significant portion of the conversation centers on the efficacy of exercise compared to antidepressant medications. Anders cites research indicating that exercise is as effective as pharmaceutical interventions in treating depression. He explains, “Exercise is as effective as antidepressant medication” (07:17). Delving into the neurochemical mechanisms, Anders highlights how both exercise and antidepressants boost serotonin, dopamine, and noradrenaline levels in the brain, enhancing mood and motivation.

However, Anders notes a crucial distinction: “If you are severely depressed, you will not exercise. You need help and you need medication often, and you definitely need therapy” (07:17). Thus, while exercise serves as a potent preventive measure against depression, it complements rather than replaces traditional treatments for severe cases.

Exercise and Stress Management

Addressing the escalating issue of chronic stress, Anders elucidates the role of the HPA axis—comprising the hypothalamus, pituitary gland, and adrenal glands—in regulating cortisol, the primary stress hormone. Chronic activation of this system, due to prolonged psychosocial stress, can lead to a shrinking hippocampus and a weakened stress response mechanism.

Exercise emerges as a vital tool in breaking this vicious cycle. Anders explains, “Exercise teaches the body not to react so strongly to stress” (11:35). He references a study involving 300 Finnish children, where increased daily steps correlated with a diminished cortisol response during stress tests, demonstrating improved resilience to stress (15:00). This finding is particularly significant for children, whose ability to focus and learn is often impeded by excessive stress.

Exercise and ADHD

The conversation shifts to Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD), a condition affecting approximately 12% of American children and teenagers. Anders discusses how regular exercise can enhance focus and creativity, potentially reducing the need for higher doses of ADHD medications. He cites a study involving competitive gamers who, after intense exercise, showed a 10% improvement in performance (20:38). This improvement illustrates the broader cognitive benefits of physical activity, extending beyond mood regulation to enhanced executive functions.

Anders also touches on the evolutionary aspects of ADHD traits, suggesting that hyperactivity and impulsivity were advantageous for our ancestors in hunting and survival. He posits, “They were the ones who really caught the prey” (22:00), highlighting the adaptive nature of these traits in a modern context.

Exercise and Cognitive Functions

Deepening the discussion on cognitive enhancements, Anders references several studies demonstrating how exercise boosts memory, creativity, and problem-solving abilities. For instance, a Stanford study found that students who engaged in a 35-minute brisk walk before brainstorming sessions performed nearly 50% better in generating ideas compared to their sedentary counterparts (41:19).

Additionally, a memory-enhancing study showed that university students who walked while learning foreign language words retained 20% more vocabulary after two days than those who learned while sitting (25:19). Anders attributes these benefits to increased blood flow to the brain during physical activity, facilitating better information absorption and retention.

Evolutionary Perspective on Exercise

Anders provides a fascinating evolutionary perspective on why the human brain is wired to resist exercise despite its clear benefits. He explains, “We evolved in a world where there was very little food, calories were very scarce... The brain wants to save energy... That makes made sense” (29:00). This ingrained energy-conserving behavior, while beneficial in ancestral environments, poses significant challenges in today's world of caloric abundance and sedentary lifestyles.

He further critiques modern industries, such as the food and tech sectors, for exploiting these evolutionary instincts. Anders remarks, “The food industry and the makers of candy has hijacked this in us... the makers of social media... make it very addictive” (32:38). This manipulation exacerbates sedentary behaviors, undermining the brain's ability to harness the benefits of movement.

Brain Plasticity

Highlighting the brain's remarkable adaptability, Anders shares compelling case studies. He discusses Michelle Mack, who thrived despite missing half of her brain, and Kim Peak, a savant who could read two pages simultaneously and retain information from thousands of books. These examples illustrate the brain's plasticity and its ability to reorganize and optimize functions in response to physical activity and environmental demands (36:48).

Anders emphasizes, “The brain is very plastic. It will adapt to how we live” (36:48), reinforcing the notion that incorporating regular movement into daily life can significantly enhance cognitive resilience and adaptability.

Practical Applications for Schools and Workplaces

Recognizing the transformative potential of exercise, Anders advocates for integrating physical activity into educational and professional settings. He suggests practical measures such as walking or biking to school, using standing desks, and incorporating short exercise breaks throughout the day. Anders notes, “The more of these short term effects you get that will spill over more and more of your day” (42:45).

Jenny Urich echoes the challenges faced in the United States, sharing experiences from school board meetings where despite efforts, recess and physical activity time remain insufficient. Anders responds by reiterating the necessity of building exercise into habitual routines to circumvent the brain's inherent resistance (26:56).

Exercise and Sleep

Anders briefly touches upon the relationship between exercise and sleep quality. Regular physical activity is shown to facilitate faster sleep onset and increase the duration of deep sleep, which is crucial for restorative rest. He warns against the overreliance on sleeping pills, advocating instead for exercise as a natural remedy for sleep disturbances (45:12).

Conclusion

Jenny Urich concludes the episode by lauding Anders Hansen's insightful exploration of exercise as a multifaceted tool for enhancing mental and cognitive health. She highlights the book The Real Happy Pill as a compelling resource that convincingly argues for the brain's reliance on physical activity for optimal functioning.

Anders leaves listeners with a thought-provoking reflection on modern life's dissonance with our evolutionary predispositions, urging a conscious integration of movement to harness its extensive benefits. Reflecting on personal memories of childhood outdoor activities, both host and guest underscore the foundational role of physical activity in fostering resilient and thriving minds.

Notable Quotes:

• Anders Hansen: “Exercise improves all of our cognitive functions. It makes us more focused, it makes us more creative, it makes us more tolerant to stress.” (02:10)

• Anders Hansen: “If you increase the level of these neurotransmitters with antidepressant drug and you also increase it by exercise, then you would guess that maybe exercise could be an antidepressant. And it is.” (07:17)

• Anders Hansen: “Exercise teaches the body not to react so strongly to stress.” (11:35)

• Anders Hansen: “Exercise is probably the most important thing you could do” to prevent depression (07:17)

• Anders Hansen: “The brain wants to save energy in the same way that it wants to eat everything and wants to save energy, because that makes made sense.” (29:00)

• Anders Hansen: “The brain is very plastic. It will adapt to how we live.” (36:48)

• Anders Hansen: “Exercise is not about being sporty... It’s about walking to school or riding your bike to school or these things are incredibly important.” (43:47)

Final Thoughts

This episode of "The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast" offers a comprehensive and scientifically grounded exploration of how physical activity serves as a cornerstone for mental health and cognitive excellence. Anders Hansen's expertise provides listeners with actionable insights, motivating them to prioritize movement as a vital element of a healthy, balanced life.

Transcript

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[Jenny Urich]

My name is Jenny Urich. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside and I read a fantastic book. It has two different names, so you can look up both and see which one it is near you. The one I have is called the Real Happy Pill, but it's also called the Mind Body Method, depending on where you're living. It is by Anders Hansen and Anders is here with us today. Welcome.

[Anders Hansen]

Hi. Good to be here.

[Jenny Urich]

It's so good to have you. This is a huge topic. I just got off a call talking with a woman who runs outdoor programming for kids and says that the latest statistic is that in America kids are sitting for nine hours a day. Nine hours a day is the average. And you have this book about movement and it is so, so wonderful. Can you kick it off by telling us how you got interested in this topic?

[Anders Hansen]

Well, I'm a psychiatrist and I have always. I've followed medical research and psychiatric research closely for many years now. And I started to realize about 10 years ago that there was several studies published that showed how incredibly exercise is and not just for the body, but for the brain. Exercise, it improves all of Our cognitive functions. It makes us more focused, it makes us more creative, it makes us more tolerant to stress. And actually exercise even seems to increase our intelligence somewhat. And I was very surprised by that. I wasn't taught that in med school, but that it turned out that this is rather new research, actually, that shows that the brain seems to be the organ, the body that benefits the most from exercise. And because of that, it is a shame, I think, that especially children are not moving more than they do because they really miss out on something that is very important for their cognition, their ability to learn, and of course, their mood and their how, how they, how they feel.

[Jenny Urich]

So you talked about this one study in the Real Happy Pill or Mind Body method that changed you, and it was about MRIs of these 60 year olds. And you talked about the brain differences. Some of them took regular walks and some of them didn't. What was the differences in their brains?

[Anders Hansen]

Well, it turned out that the ones who took regular walks, their brains worked better, function better as an organ, and that was very surprising. And there was another study where one took. Individuals were in their 50s and they were randomized into two groups. And one group got to walk three times a week, 45 minutes every time. So they were walking fast, but they were not running. And the other group did stretching exercises three times a week, 45 minutes every time. And this went on for one year. So one group walked for a year and one group had stretching exercises. And the brain was in that study also investigated with an MRI scan. So you had an MRI scan of the brain, and one measured the size of the hippocampus. And the hippocampus is a structure in the brain. We have one in each hemisphere that is very important for memory. It has several other functions as well, but it's very important for memory. And hippocampus shrinks as we get older. It reaches a peak size when we are in our late 20s, early 30s, and then it shrinks 1% per year for the rest of our lives. And that contributes to our memory deteriorating slowly as we get older. Now, this study, one wanted to see, is it possible to sort of slow down this shrinkage if you walk? And that's why one had one group walking and one group stretching. And the size of the hippocampus was measured before this year and after. And it turned out that the stretching group, their hippocampus had shrunk by an average of 1.4%. It was 1.4% smaller. But when one looked at the walking group, one saw something very Surprising. And that was the fact that the hippocampus had not shrunk, but grown by 2%. So instead of getting one year older, it had gotten two years younger in terms of size. And that was really one of those studies that sort of. What is this? This is really powerful. And this finding has been confirmed as soon as there was just a meta analysis where we combined several studies that was published that confirmed these results. The hippocampus grows if we are physically active. And had this been a pill, had this been a pharmaceutical or, or a food supplement, we would have heard about it because it would have been so heavily marketed. And now no one seemed to know because it was just something as simple as walking. And you can't make any money out of that. So most people are not aware of that.

[Jenny Urich]

You talked about another statistic that was similar with depression. There was studies done. Regular physical activity turned out to be as effective as pharmaceuticals in the treat of depression. And then you even wrote, it didn't merely provide the same shield against depression as medication, it offered a stronger protection than medication. Billions of dollars have been spent on the marketing of antidepressant pharmaceuticals. In contrast, how much has been spent on spreading the word about how your trainings and your walkings can have the same effect. As little as a 20 to 30 minute walk can save off depression and make you feel better. There's a lot of different topics you cover about in this book. The Real Happy Pill. You talk about depression, you talk about stress in these different types of situations that people find themselves in, and the gaba, that piece, and then obviously the, the shrinking of the brain. Can you talk about depression in particular? I know it's obviously a very common thing. Everyone knows you can treat it with medication. But what are the effects of exercise on depression?

[Anders Hansen]

Yes, as you say, I look at many things in this book. I look at creativity and memory and focus and Anx and depression, which is something that I work closely with as a psychiatrist. But in Sweden, one in eight adults are on antidepressant medication. So about 14% of the population, which is a lot, I think I want to say this from the start that antidepressant medication is good. It saves lives. If you are an antidepressant medication, you cannot just stop them. So that's very, very important. Having said that, not just one, but many studies shows that exercise is as effective as antidepressant medication. Now, there's a number of neurotransmitters in the brain. They have different names, you probably heard of them. And they have somewhat different functions. Serotonin is connected to a feeling of inner strength and harmony. And noradrenaline is about being awake and alert. And dopamine motivates us to do things. It works like an engine. It motivates us to eat and meet our friends and have sex and so on. Basically things that helped our ancestors to survive. Antidepressant medication increases the level of these neurotransmitters in the brain. The most commonly used antidepressants affect serotonin primarily, but there's also antidepressants that affects noradrenaline and dopamine, and they basically increase the level of them in the brain. Now, what would happen if I go for a run? Well, then I also increase the level of serotonin, dopamine and noradrenaline in my brain. But I'm not just. I don't primarily do that during the run, but after the run, the level seems to peak after 25, 30 minutes after exercise. But if you increase the level of these neurotransmitters with antidepressant drug and you also increase it by exercise, then you would guess that maybe exercise could be an antidepressant. And it is. It actually is. Exercise is as effective as antidepressant medication. But in order to get that effect, you need to exercise three times a week, 45 minutes every time, and you need to raise your pulse. But if you do that, you get the same effect as antidepressant medication. Now, that's very difficult. If you are severely depressed, you will not exercise. I could say that as a psychiatrist, that will not happen. So if you are severely depressed, you need help and you need medication often, and you definitely need therapy. So I think the role of exercise when it comes to depressions is more preventing them. And then it's been shown that just one hour of fast walking every week lowers your risk of depression. It doesn't guarantee that you won't have a depression, but it lowers the risk. And if you move more than that, you get a bigger risk reduction. So to the patients that I have who have suffered many depressions and who wants to avoid a new one at all cost, I always say, say to them that you should definitely exercise. It is probably the most important thing you could do. And that is very important since one in eight adults are on this medication. So when it comes to depression, exercise is definitely something that we have looked in a step motherly way upon. And I think the reason is exactly what you're saying. It's money. The pharmaceutical market for Antidepressants is a billion dollar market. And how can you monetize a walk? Well, you can't. So that's why most people don't know about this.

[Jenny Urich]

But you have so much of the information in this book. You also talk about physical activity and stress. So obviously stress is on the rise. And I thought this was really interesting because you talk about how there's this vicious cycle that you're stressed and that excess cortisol shrinks your hippocamp. This and that is the brake system for being stressed. And so your brake system basically breaks or gets smaller. So can you talk about how physical activity could be a guard against dealing with stress related ailments?

[Anders Hansen]

Yes, stress is a very interesting topic. And we have a hormone called cortisol, which is our main stress hormone. And the most central stress system that we have is called the HPA axis. The H stands for hypothalamus, that's a part of the brain. And the P stands for pituitary gland, that's a gland located on the bottom of the brain. And the A stands for adrenal glands. And they are located on top of your kidneys and they produce cortisol. Now basically all vertebrates have HPA axis, so dogs and cats and lizard and fish, all of them have the same stress system as we have. And it's pretty interesting that a fish that is being chased by bigger fish releases cortisol, which is exactly what we release when we are stressed. So the stress system that we have probably evolved to face immediate danger. You're facing a lion or a tiger, you had to either go to attack or run away, fight or flight. Now, today we don't face these things, but we face psychosocial stress. And the stress that we experience is much more longer lasting. It's not as intense as if we stood in front of a lion, of course, but it could be much more longer lasting. And to experience too high activity in your HPA axis, your stress system, for too long time, and by too long time, I don't mean days or even weeks, but months or years, that is dangerous. And that seems actually to shrink your hippocampus somewhat. And the hippocampus acts as a break on the stress system. And that means that the more you stress, the less effective this break gets, which is vicious cycle. Now how could you sort of stop this vicious cycle? Well, one, what I would suggest is exercise. If I would go now for a run or cycle or something like that, cortisol levels rises in my bloodstream. And that is because exercise is by itself a form of stress for the body. But when I finished my run, my cycle, my swim, whatever it is, cortisol levels drop and then they drop to a lower level than before I started the run. Now, the really interesting thing here is that the more I continue with this running, the less cortisol rises during the running and the more cortisol drops after the running. And the really interesting point here is that when I then get stressed due to other reasons than exercise, I don't respond with such a high increase in cortisol. My stress system doesn't respond so much if I am in good shape. And by good shape, I mean if I have good cardiovascular fitness. So that basically means that exercise teaches the body not to react so strongly to stress, regardless of what caused that stress. And I think personally that this is because when our ancestors used their stress systems, they were facing danger. Running away from a tiger, lion, predator, something like that. If you were in good shape, you had better chances of outrunning or surviving this threat. And then you don't need to sort of establish full panic mode in your stress system for all possible or impossible threats. And therefore your HPA axis can sort of wind down a bit. So that is probably why we get less stressed if we exercise today. This has been shown also in many, many studies. In one of the best, one looked at 300 children in Finland. And these kids had to do tests during time pressure. They had to do math tests, they had to present stuff in front of a large group, which is stressful, of course. And then one measured cortisol in the bloodstream of these kids. One took a blood test and saw that some kids have high increase in cortisol. Other kids were much calmer, lower increase in cortisol. Now, that's not strange. I mean, kids respond differently to stress, of course. But the interesting thing here is that one, the researchers let these kids have an activity tracker for 24 hours, and then one saw a pattern. The more steps they took per day, the lower increase in cortisol during the stress test. And there was one group of kids who was actually, they did not respond with any increase in cortisol. They seemed immune to the stress. And that was the children who took the most steps per day. And that is interesting, I think, from a physical activity in school perspective and also mental health among children perspective, it's.

[Jenny Urich]

Very interesting because stress definitely affects how well you can learn as well.

[Anders Hansen]

Exactly.

[Jenny Urich]

And so for the school kids, that's a really big deal. A body that is physically fit copes better with stress.

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[Jenny Urich]

So I like this approach that you take, Anders, where you say, you know, people talk about exercise in all sorts of different realms, but the approach you're taking is this is for your brain, this is for your depression, this is for your mood, your creativity, like all of these different other pieces for your stress. And you're just adding on all of these very, very compelling reasons about moving more. You talk in this book about adhd. ADHD has become our era's most recognized and discussed medical problem. It is also the diagnosis that has risen the most by a wide margin. We now estimate that 12% of the country's children and teenagers, over 6 million kids, have been diagnosed with ADHD. You say, but we're all on the spectrum somewhere talking about concentration, impulsivity and hyperactivity. And you also say ADHD has advantages. So this is not all of a bad thing. But how does movement help with ADHD in the spots where, you know, maybe kids are getting in trouble in school or they're fidgeting too much or just in general, how can movement help with the symptoms of adhd?

[Anders Hansen]

Yes, well, as you say, ADHD is a diagnosis that is based on symptoms, hyperactivity, impulsivity and difficulties focusing. And these are things that we have, all of us, more or less. So it's not black or white. It's not like either you have HIV or you don't. You know, it's not black or white. You could have a little of age of adhd. So it's, it's where you draw the line. And that's, that's, that's itself a big, big question. Now having said all of that, we know from many, many studies now that exercise improves our focus and it seems to do so especially for the one who wants to have ADHD or lots of traits of ADHD who are high on the scale. And this been shown that you could actually reduce the dose of your ADHD medication. If you exercise in the morning, you cannot take the medication away, but you could reduce the dose. So it is by itself a form of medication for adhd. And one study that came out a couple of years ago that I thought was interesting was done on a computer game called League of Legends. And that's a very, very popular computer game. And there are big competitions in this game and there's a lot of money involved. So many people try to become very good at this. These researchers took a group of experienced League of Legends players. They, these guys played a lot, lot. They played on average 14 hours a week. If I don't 12 or 14 hours, it was a lot. They were very, very good at this game. And that one randomized them into two groups. One group that got to exercise intensely for 15 minutes and the other group did nothing. They rested 15 minutes and then they played the game. And it turns out the ones who had exercised performed 10% better on the game and 10 extra. If you are good. That's the difference between being good and being the best. So if you want to to have an argument for your kids to exercise, then you will become a better gamer. And I think that this whole study also shows that your focus increases because you really need your focus when you're playing this game. And this is especially true for the ones who have adhd. And personally, I think that people who have a lot of these traits, they are hyperactive, impulsive, and they have problems focusing. They were probably very good hunters during our evolutionary history. They were the ones who really caught the prey, so to speak. And when they are forced to sit down in a school, listening to what someone is saying, sitting for 45 minutes, that really goes against their natural biology. When they are exercising, they are getting closer to what they evolved for. So I think it's a way to sort of make them fit better into our modern society.

[Jenny Urich]

It's a way to honor how they are. It's a way to honor who they are.

[Anders Hansen]

Exactly, exactly. And I wrote actually a book about the advantages of adhd. Because adhd, it turns out that these individuals are more driven and more creative. Actually that's been shown. So there are positive things to this as well. And it's very important that you say that we don't look at ourselves if we have ADHD as broken or damaged or something like that, because that could be a self fulfilling prophecy.

[Jenny Urich]

I've talked to this man who talks about ADHD quite a bit. He says he has ADHD and he talks about how it's very much related to executive function. And it's interesting that in this book you talked about executive control, that children need to be able to show initiative and make decisions. They have to be able to plan and organize and stay focused even when they're distracted. They have to stop themselves from giving into every single impulse that they feel. So movement also helps with executive control?

[Anders Hansen]

Yes, it does. It does for A couple of hours. So that's why you should exercise in the morning. You get a bump in your ability to focus and you also get a bump actually in your creativity, your ability to the brainstorm. So it seems to last one or a couple of hours. You should probably do it in the morning if you wanted to spill over on your school day or work day.

[Jenny Urich]

Like how kids used to walk to school. I mean, what a wonderful way to start your day. You've got full spectrum light and you're moving or you're biking to school or something like that. And that's just getting their bodies ready for the school day. And you talk about how oftentimes these things can happen very quickly. When nine year olds were physically active for 20 minutes in one single session, they became markedly better at reading. Yes, one short burst of exercise altered the kids academic abilities.

[Anders Hansen]

Yes, that's also very interesting. One of the findings that I wrote about in this book was a group was a study where you looked at your ability to remember words in a foreign language. You had half of a group of this case university students walking and listening to word in a foreign language in headphones and the other group listened to the word sitting down. And then the one compared how many words they remembered two days after. And it turned out that the walking group Learned on average 20% more words. So you put your brain into mood of receiving information when you are physically active. And that may partly at least be because blood flow to the brain increases as we move. If I would get up from my chair now and walk around my apartment, my heart would start to beat stronger and faster because my, my muscles need more blood when I move. But it's not just the muscles that gets more blood. The brain gets more blood when we move. The blood flow to the brain seems to increase by about 20%. So when we are physically active and that is probably one of the main reasons why learning, creativity and also mood are boosted short term. So that is why you become a better learner if you learn it during or after exercise. So any exercise during school days is good for academic performance. And that is also something that should be implemented in more schools. I'm not sure how it's in the US but in Sweden some teachers are actually starting to listen to this.

[Jenny Urich]

And implementing is, I would say, fairly rough here in the United States. I spoke at a school board meeting last year, but this school year, but last year, last calendar, because they were giving the kids 20 minutes of recess once, one time in the afternoon for four, you know, for starting at age four. And then they had a little bit of recess combined with lunch, which in my view didn't really count. And they weren't able to say, well, how much time actually is it? You know, and the kids have to get in line and they have to get their food and they have to sit down and they have to throw their things out and they have to get on their boots and their coats. Like how much time are they actually getting to play? So maybe two 20 minute things or maybe a 20 minute and a 15, but certainly not enough, especially with this nine hours of sitting. And you wrote this. There's just a lot of things, there's so many things that are helped with the movement. Physically active kids between the ages of 4 and 18 will show improvement in practically all of their cognitive facilities. Multitasking, working memory, focus, and executive control, which is the ability to make decisions. So so many things going on for our kids and for adults when we give them time to move their bodies. You had some really cool stories in this book.

[Anders Hansen]

Yes, and, and I. A thing I've thought a lot about is if exercise is so good for the brain as it is, why are we avoiding it? Why do we want to be in the couch? I mean, why does the brain actively want to avoid doing something that is so good for us itself? That, that's a paradox. Right. And I think that could also be understood from evolutionary history. We evolved in a world where there was very little food, calories were very scarce, and we had to eat everything that we found, especially with something that contained a lot of calories, such as sweet fruit or something. But that doesn't work at McDonald's. So when we take that calorie for the crave for calorie from a. The calorie poor world where we evolved to today's world where the calories are almost free, well then we get the problems that we see today in terms of obesity and type 2 diabetes and so on, and the amount of energy that we have in our bodies. It not, it's not just dependent on how much food we eat, it's also dependent on how much we move. And it. Because it costs energy to move. And the brain wants to save energy in the same way that it wants to eat everything and wants to save energy, because that makes made sense. Every step our ancestors took had to be paid by food. And they could not buy it, get it on the grocery store, they had to find it. So it made sense to be still. And today we could sort of drag that instinct way too far and someone once asked me, well, if you're overweight, why does your brain still want to keep you in the couch? That's strange. You obviously are not threatened by starvation. And that's a great question. And the answer is that we have never been overweight during human history. Overweight and obesity has been non existent problems during our history, but threatening starvation has been a huge problem. So the brain interprets all weight loss as threatening starvation. And that's why it's so difficult to lose weight. So we have a very strong instinct to not use our precious energy, not to waste it. So exercise is tough, that's my point. And we should not blame ourselves too much if we don't want to do it. I don't like the term lazy because it gives you sort of the impression that there's something morally wrong with you. If you want to eat a lot of food and be in the couch, that means that you have a strong defense system against starvation, not that you're morally broken. I think it's important to reframe that and to understand why we don't like to exercise. But we still need to do it if we want to function as good as possible. And then we have to find, I think, ways to build our way around these Achilles heels. And one of these things could be to try to build it into your life. Go walk to work, ride your bike to work, walk in stairs, handling your screen during lunch break and play, etc. The things that we don't make a conscious decision about is so important. You know, I'm not going to make a decision tonight whether I should brush my teeth. I will just do that. That and in the ideal setting you should have exercise being something that you just do out of habit so that you don't have to negotiate with the lazy part of yourself because that part of yourself has really good arguments. It's always a bit too cold outside, or maybe it's too warm or I'm sure about my tender. And we are sort of trying to figure out a way that we, we should not exercise because we're functioning normally. And that is something that we have to be aware of, that, that's an Achilles heel in our psychology.

[Jenny Urich]

And interestingly, the tech manufacturers have hijacked that and they know that well. And the same thing with the food actually. It's all of these systems, these large systems they're taking the human biology and grabbing hold of, like you said, those things that are innate in us, in running with it and twisting it and saying, here you'll Be satisfied scrolling on this phone or you'll be satisfied watching this show. And they make it very addictive. And so not only, you know, is your biology working in that certain way, but also there are these major forces that are making all of their money when you're looking at their screens. So we're up against a lot. I like that you said that.

[Anders Hansen]

Yes, absolutely. And if you go into the supermarket, the stuff that you meet at the candy section, there's nothing like that in nature. The most calorie, rich stuff you find in nature, that's basically fruit and honey. And those are considered healthy food. The stuff at the gross, the candy section, those are atomic bombs when it comes to calories. And when you eat them, your body screams that this is the best. This is the best fruit tree ever. Eat, eat everything. Because you're protecting yourself from a famine. But that famine never comes in our world. So, so the food industry and, and the, the makers of candy has hijacked this in us. And also the makers of social media, there is nothing that is so rewarding and therefore we can't have, I think, our screens around all the time. We have to put some distance to them in the same way that we can can't have candy around all the time. I think you're on mute.

[Unknown Speaker (Advertiser)]

Workday starting to sound the same.

[Anders Hansen]

I think you're on mute.

[Unknown Speaker (Advertiser)]

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This episode is brought to you by Peloton. Everyone has a reason to change. Growing old, heartbreak, a fresh start. Whatever it may be, Peloton is here to get you through life's biggest moments with workouts you can do on your time and motivation that keeps you coming back.

[Jenny Urich]

Peloton.

[Unknown Speaker (Advertiser)]

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[Anders Hansen]

That Mother Nature's cruelest hoax is make us believe that if we just follow our instincts and do what feels good, we will be happy. And nothing is further from the truth. Our instincts evolved to help us survive in a world where there was little food than was very dangerous. And they are not the same instincts that will help us make us happy in a world of overabundance. That's basically what it all boils down to. If we understand this evolutionary m mismatch and see how it's being played out in us and how someone profits from it, well, then I think you will make take steps in order to protect yourself.

[Jenny Urich]

Isn't it interesting when you talk about fruit? We live in an area where the, you know, there's a big apple crop and the apples, they're harvested maybe six weeks. You know, it's like one apple this week, one type next week. You know, six weeks done and that's it. You know, any type of fruit that's being harvested typically is not harvested year round. There's a season for it. So even that, you know, the candy bars are always available at the supermarket, but fruit has not always been available year round. So really, really interesting things to think about. Anderson, I love that your book talks about how the brain can change. And like you talked about earlier, the hippocampus, it grew 2%. And you talk about we can increase our memory, that we can double the regeneration of brain cells through movement. And you give a couple really cool examples of certain people whose brains adapted phenomenally. One example is Michelle Mack. She was missing one entire half of the brain.

[Anders Hansen]

Yeah, it was. It's a very extreme case. Of course. It's. It's a woman who missed half of her brain and no one really knows how. Maybe one of her arteries supplying blood to the brain was, was clogged when she was born or before that, but she grew up with half a brain. And I mean, if you take half my brain away today, I would die immediately. But she survived and she had a rather normal life. And I think that just shows the extraordinary plasticity of the brain. It's a very, very changeable organ. I was taught in med schools that the brain cells that you have when you're in your teens, those are the ones that you have to live with for the rest of your life. And you can only lose brain cells and that's not true. The brain. There are new brain cells born, especially in the hippocampus. And you can speed up that birth of new neurons in your hippocampus by exercising. And plasticity of the brain is many things. It's how the brain function in a large structural way, how different parts of it is connected to one another, and all from that level down to the cellular level. We know that the brain is very plastic. It will adapt to how we live. And exercise makes the brain more plastic and changeable. That is something that I've really taken to heart. That's why I wanted to write this book, to show this fantastic science, because it's like learning about more what happens when you sleep. Then you would protect your sleep. When you understand these effects, you will go for a run. I can assure you that.

[Jenny Urich]

Yes, yes, absolutely. It's very, very motivating and gives you a lot of hope. And then you talked about this man named Kim Peak. Similar, not similar in terms of missing half the brain, but similar to where he had a brain situation and he could read two pages in a book simultaneously. The left side with his left eye, the right side with his right eye. It took him 10 seconds to read a page. He could go through an entire book in an hour. And he remembered everything in the approximately 12,000 books he had read. So just the extraordinary capacities of the brain and these different situations and how they adapt. And both of them would be able to tell you what day of the week any date was.

[Anders Hansen]

Yes. These savants are of course very, very, very rare. But I used a couple of those cases just to show how remarkably plastic the brain is, is. And that it will adapt. And if you spend your life in a couch and watching Netflix, then it will adapt to that. If that is your life. It does. It doesn't really have to be at its peak, so to speak. So then it, your cognitive capacities will suffer from it. What I always thought was fascinating is why, you know, why do we are focused, improve when we exercise? Why do we get more creative? That's actually very strange. I mean, I don't need my focus when I go for a run. I don't need my creativity when I'm at the gym or playing soccer or something. And the reason is probably that it was when our ancestors move, when they moved, that's when they needed their cognitive capacities the most. It was when you were hunting, then you would, then you needed to really be focused, then you needed to be creative, make come up with new ideas. And that's when you Saw new things, experienced new things, got new sensory input, and then the brain is in a state where it's receiving information and it's good at storing, receiving and storing information. And that is probably why you learn 20% more words if you hear the words when you're walking. So I think Mother Nature has built us in a way where exercise improves our cognitive functions, because it was when we moved that we needed those functions the most. And then exercise becomes, from our perspective, a way to hack evolution.

[Jenny Urich]

It is interesting. I loved that you included the creativity part because I felt that, you know, that when you're out walking, that's when you get the answer. That's when the ideas come and it's just random. They just kind of flow into your mind and you wrote exercises. Effect on creativity was one of the reasons I became interested in how the brain is influenced by physical activity. So you can boost your creativity. There's idea generation. And then also this walking is protecting against dementia. A few years ago, it was shown that a daily walk could cut our risk of developing dementia by 40%. It's just 30 minutes, five days a week. 40%, yes, yes.

[Anders Hansen]

And that's been confirmed in several studies. Now this is between 30 and 40, but that is a lot. I mean, if that would have been a pharmaceutical, that would have really been, you know, we would have heard about it. So we reduce our risk of. Of dementia, especially Alzheimer's dementia, which is the most common form. And speaking about creativity, there was a test study that was done at Stanford where one had students walking around the campus and they walked for 35, 40 minutes fast walking. And then they did the creativity test for brainstorming. And brainstorming is basically come up, coming up with many ideas to problem. Right. And it turns out the ones who walked, they performed almost 50% better than the ones who did not walk before the test. Now this, this was, this was a temporary bump. So you only got the boosted creativity for about one hour and then you were back to normal. So you get a temporary boost in your creativity, especially brainstorming, not so much other forms of creativity, but if you're stuck in a problem at school or at work, it really makes sense to have a fast walk for 30 minutes and then think of the problem the hour after. That definitely increases the ch process of coming up with something.

[Jenny Urich]

And that, I think, points to the fact that we should be moving throughout the day and possibly not just having one movement thing and then that's it. Then you sit for the rest of the day.

[Anders Hansen]

Yes, exactly, exactly. The more of these short term effects you get that will spill over more and more and more of your day. So in an ideal world we should do something in the morning and something at lunch, perhaps afterwards. And of course I don't understand. That's not the case. Case. That's not possible. What I want to really stress in this book is that exercise has nothing to do with sport. It's got nothing to do with being one of this athletic ones, one of the, in the marathons or something. You know that that's not the point. Exercise is something that we have evolved to do as a species and that might be, as I said, walking to school or riding your bike to school or these things are, are incredibly important. And you get the really big effects that you get those when you have someone do who doesn't do anything and starts doing a little. So if someone doesn't do anything and then starts walking to school every day, then you will get a big effect. But if you have a marathon runner doing running faster, that will not make any difference at all in terms of cognition.

[Jenny Urich]

So interesting. I want to hit two topics before we wrap up here. You talk about gaba. Is that how people pronounce it? G A, B A. And I'm wondering if you could explain because this is a really cool sentence. The brain of a person who exercises becomes more like a child's. So talking about children learn so quickly and GABA is involved in that process.

[Anders Hansen]

Well, GABA is a neurotransmitter that slows down the brain, that slows down the activity. One of the things that it activates GABA is alcohol. And that's when you feel calm when you drink alcohol. The first sip, the first glass of alcohol boosts the GABA system and it makes you calmer. And exercise seems to have this effect as well. It affects the GABA system and make you calmer, less stressed. And I that's also something that we have experienced most of us, I think.

[Jenny Urich]

Yeah. So interesting. So much to learn in this book. The real Happy pill or Mind body method. Last thing you talk about. You think better standing on your feet. You think better being sedentary. Too much not only makes you unfocused, anxious and depressed, it also makes you think slower because it impairs your cognitive skills. And so you know, we're talking about moving, but even just standing.

[Anders Hansen]

Yes.

[Jenny Urich]

When you have a standing desk, twice as much calorie expenditure. And so you talk about that. There's a lot of benefits at school or at work.

[Anders Hansen]

Yes, that's Actually also been shown that you think slightly better if you stand, if you sit. And there was a study that was done and kids that were around 10 to 12 and half of them had to sit during a school day and the other group had to stand and they performed slightly better. There was not huge differences, but there were differences. So we seem to think slightly better standing and as you say, also spelling stand twice the amount of, of calories while we stand as compared to sitting. So I'm not suggesting that everyone should stand the whole school day, but perhaps a little bit more than they than they do today, because we, children especially, they are definitely too sedentary. What I did not bring up in the book, which is also important, is the effect of exerc exercise on sleep. It's also been very well documented that if you exercise during the day, you will fall asleep, sleep faster, and you will get more deep sleep. And deep sleep is a really resting part of the sleep. And that is important because in Sweden at least, the number of teenagers who are seeking help for sleeping disorders has risen by more than 1000% during the last 20 years. It's exploded. And no one really knows why that is. But it's not a wild guess that screens in the bedrooms has something to do with it. And I as a psychiatrist have a lot of patients who come and say, especially young, that they want sleeping pills. And my main advice to them is always that they should buy an old school alarm clock before they even think about any sleeping pills and start exercise. If they haven't done that, one should. Normally there could be exceptions, of course, but normally one shouldn't even consider sleeping pills.

[Jenny Urich]

It's over and over again like there's a pharmaceutical option, or you could walk, or you could exercise, or you could train and see if that helps, see if that gives you what you need. And all of these studies bear out the thought that it helps with stress, it helps with depression, it helps with dementia, it helps with sleep, it just helps with ADHD symptoms, it helps with executive function. It is a very, very compelling book. Anders, you wrote, the brain seems to be the organ that benefits the most from our body being in motion. And you talk about how that after age 25, you're starting to lose a half a percent every year. The brain size decreases about half a percent per year, but it seems to happen more quickly if you have depression. And that when you move, it's going to help to regenerate different brain cells and do so. So much for you. So very, very compelling, very interesting, very different from other books that I've read. I liked it so, so much. Exercise is the opposite of stre man's best medicine. You give different specific things about weight training and different ideas that you can do. What's going to help more, what's going to help less? Anders we always ended the show with the same question. The question is, what's a favorite memory from your childhood that was outside?

[Anders Hansen]

Oh, there's so many of them. I. It has to be skiing. One of the first times I skied, I was six or seven. I did. There was no lift. My daddy pulled me out, up, he dragged me, and then I ski down. It felt like I was in the Alps or something. It was probably very, very, very small. Small little hill close to where we lived. But that's the first thing that jumps out of my mind.

[Jenny Urich]

What a dad.

[Anders Hansen]

How about you?

[Jenny Urich]

What a dad. Mine was also with my dad. We live in Michigan here in the United States. And it gets pretty cold, you know, starting in, I don't know, October.

[Unknown Speaker (Advertiser)]

Ish.

[Jenny Urich]

And he would take me on these father daughter canoe trips and we would be wearing a full winter coat and you'd get in this canoe and you'd canoe down the river. And it was just something. There's something different about being out in the water. There's something different about being outside in the season that you're not normally in that season in that environment. You know, you would normally canoe in the summer or kayak in the summer, but it was, you know, and the, the leaves were changing and I just really have great memories of that. So also with my dad.

[Anders Hansen]

Yeah. And, and it's, of course, it's a shame that children aren't playing as much anymore because they're so addicted to their screens. And we actually did a children version of this book and of some other works I, I did. And, and we let Swedish schools buy them, but. But, but only pay for the postage for what it cost to print them and send them by the mail. And there was more than 300000 books ordered. So they're used in half of our Swedish schools. And I thought I would be hated by a generation of Swedish kids, but they come up and say, oh, now I understand it. I should move for my brain. That's what it's about. It's not about being sporty. And it's just fabulous to see how this knowledge can be inspiring if it's just presented in a way that isn't, you know, you should do this, you should do that, or a lot of cliches if you just present the science in a way that's relatable and easy to understand, everyone, children included, will get motivated.

[Jenny Urich]

That's what I came away from your book with. The word was compelling. This is compelling. You read it and you think, I want that. I want a 40% less chance of dementia. I want to have less stress and less anxiety. I want to be building new brain cells. All of these things. It was very, very compelling. So I loved it so much. The book is called the Real Happy Pill by Anders Hansen. You also might find it under mine Mind Body Method physician and psychiatry specialist from the Karolinska Did I say that right?

[Anders Hansen]

Yes, yes.

[Jenny Urich]

Institute published more than 2,000 articles on medical science. The author of Prescription for Health what an honor to have you here, Anders. Thank you so much for being here.

[Anders Hansen]

My pleasure, my pleasure.

[Trey Tucker]

Are you hungry for guidance about mindset, relationships, health, finances, career decisions, and dealing with your past? I'm Trey Tucker, licensed therapist and speaker and host of Rugged, a podcast where I help young men and women navigate life's challenges and find solutions to help them live lives of service and meaning. In this podcast, you'll learn mindset strategies to harness your thoughts and emotions in ways that help you achieve your goals. I bring a blend of straight talk and empathize, and I'm open to addressing any topic and treating it and the people connected to it with respect and curiosity. Come join us. We have a space for you. Search for Rugged with Trey Tucker wherever you listen to podcasts and make sure to hit the follow button so new weekly episodes will be delivered straight to your personal podcast feed. My hope is that this podcast will leave you feeling encouraged and empowered to take charge of your life and close the gap between who you are and who you want to be.

[Macaquenz]

Are you looking for your new favorite podcast that's both entertaining and will challenge you in your walk with Jesus? Hey, we're Macaquenz from the for the Girl podcast. Every Tuesday we break down everything that we wish someone had told us in our 20s, from faith and relationships to wild career transitions. We're getting real about all of our mess ups and the things God has taught us along the way. Think of us as your hilarious weekly dose of honest conversation with your Internet besties who've been exactly where you currently are. So come check out for the Girl on Apple, Spotify or wherever you love to listen to podcasts. And make sure to click Follow on our show so that each new episode is dropped right into your personal feed.