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The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
1KHO 476: Why So Many Are Sick Before They Even Grow Up | Aly Cohen, Detoxify
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- [00:01]
Unknown Speaker
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- [01:16]
Ginny Urich
Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Ginny Urich. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside and actually I've been waiting a long time for this interview with Dr. Ailey Cohen. She wrote a book that just came out. It's her third book. It is called Detoxify and it's about everyday toxins and how they affect our bodies and how they affect our kids bodies. Thank you so much for being here.
- [01:37]
Dr. Ailey Cohen
My pleasure. Thanks for having me.
- [01:38]
Ginny Urich
It also includes a 20 day, 21 day plan for making these changes that we probably want to make because our world now is filled with all of these different chemicals, almost 100,000 of them. And you talk through so many of the details in this book, but can we kick it off with your interest? Your interest actually started off with a pet, with a sweet pet that you had and the health problems that the pet was having. And it took you down this path of really learning about the different chemicals and how they affect both humans and animals.
- [02:10]
Dr. Ailey Cohen
Correct. You summed it up really beautifully. I would not be doing this work, 15 years worth of work in what's called environmental health, how environment affects humans, if it wasn't, unfortunately for the story of my dog, when I was 15. Is 15 years ago. Is my first child. I'm sure people can relate. Listening. Was my dog first as sort of like practice before kids. And he was four and a half years of age. And we at that point had two young kids, so he came first. And he got really sick. And we didn't know because he's a golden. Right. You know, we figured he was chewing on something and we'd wait for it to come out the other end or what have you. But it turned out that he had, sadly, what was called autoimmune hepatitis. So autoimmune disease, where your body or a pet's body is attacking itself. And autoimmune hepatic disease, or liver disease is the liver. So, you know, it was just such an unusual diagnosis, which was so shocking when we finally diagnosed him. And it was also very rare, not just in dogs, but this breed. And so it took me, you know, a shakeup. I'm an autoimmune disease specialist for humans. So it was so ironic that this was happening. And when I started to say, look, what did this? What triggered his body against himself? I started to think about his surroundings. I was basically doing an environmental health survey at a pure heartbreak. What was he eating? What was he drinking? Was it contaminated? What was that red toy? He always had this red toy in his mouth all the time. And even flea and tick, you know, everything that was around him. And we live in New Jersey, so pesticides, all those kind of things. Long story short, here I am out of training, out of residency, out of fellowship, and I'm learning things about how environment affects pets and humans that I'd never heard before. I was never taught, never part of my curriculum. And so it basically took me on a wild journey for 15 years. And it started with Truxton, my dog. And he didn't do well. You know, he did pass away relatively quickly. But his. His passing, his life and his death are really a legacy for the work I do. So that's the story.
- [04:12]
Ginny Urich
Interesting because too, you also talk about in this book that these are things that maybe are not common. So this wasn't common with this breed. But also, at four and a half years old, that's a very young dog. So it's not that the dog was. And you relate that to humans that you're starting to see things that didn't show up in children, they're starting to show up. So what's interesting to me, though, that you said Dr. Cohen was when you just said, okay, you're a board certified RHEUMATOLOGIST you're a doctor, you specialize in diagnosing and treating inflammatory conditions like autoimmune. But that environment was not a part of your training.
- [04:47]
Dr. Ailey Cohen
No. And in fact, even 15 years ago, we had so much robust evidence and data and medical journals, it was just never pulled into my curriculum for training in any way. Just like nutrition. I mean, many people have heard that even nutrition, even today is not very much covered. You know, five to 10 hours more or less on average, across all medical schools over a course of four years. But then you throw in environmental health, which includes, by the way, diet and chemicals in food, you know, supplements. That's, that's the stuff that's not being spoken. You know, nutritional deficiencies, not so much supplements. It's not about selling supplements. It's about filling the gaps in human health in modern day time that we have not even cared to look at. And when you look at the fact that we now have on average, and it's hard to, you know, to get a full number, about 95,000 chemicals that have been added into modern day American human existence just predominantly Since World War II, about the 1950s, 40s, 50s, you start to see that we've been here a long time and we've been walking the planet and we've been needing a lot of things, nutrition and clean water and clean air and all that. But all these, these chemicals have just been added into our lives over about 75 years. And that's a very short period of time for the human body to really manage, evolve, start to understand how to, you know, survive in an environment where it's got just so many chemicals coming at it. Yeah.
- [06:14]
Ginny Urich
And it appears that the human body and even the bodies of our pets.
- [06:17]
Dr. Ailey Cohen
Yeah.
- [06:17]
Ginny Urich
Are not doing very well with the onsite of these things. So you've been in this field for 20 years, and I always am thrilled to talk to someone who's been in a field for a long time because that person is able to see change. And you wrote the rates of chronic illness have climbed steadily among patients, patients who have been getting diagnosed at younger and younger ages, and most strikingly, without any trace of a family history of that particular disease. So can you talk to the listeners about over a course of 20 years, what you've seen that has changed?
- [06:51]
Dr. Ailey Cohen
Yeah. Similar to Truxton when you pointed out that fact that he was a young puppy. I'm seeing young kids coming through here, you know, relatively. You know, I mean, we know that kids can get certain autoimmune diseases more commonly There are definitely those, but we're seeing adult autoimmune diseases that you typically see maybe in the 20s or 30s happening in young kids. And that's independent of eczema and psoriasis and all of these things that we, we hear about in children that certainly was not part of a normal childhood for most of human existence. And we've seen a big rise in those conditions as well. So these are inflammatory, not always just autoimmune where the body's directed towards itself. And there is a difference. But yeah, this is what I've seen over my, my training, my course of my, my 22 years now. I'm like actually still practicing and you know, and it keeps me, keeps my skill sets going, but it also helps me to really identify not only over the 15 years, what we know does affect human health, but implement and see how people respond, which is how I came up with the 21 day plan and a lot of other material in the book is because I'm already testing it out, I'm already seeing what people are interested in learning and how they learn. And it's a really difficult topic and I've tried to basically sum it down into very simplistic parts so I don't overwhelm people. And that's where I was 15 years ago, right. I kept looking around at my cat and, and saying, is this true? Is this true? You know, I had to keep looking at literature and calling, you know, or writing to the authors of journals. I remember reaching out to Frederick Vomsahl. I mean, he became my author, my co author for two textbooks behind me. And he is the forefather of endocrine disrupting chemical research, which we can get into, but basically how chemicals affect hormones in the endocrine system. He was largely responsible with colleagues of getting bisphenol A, which some of your listeners may recall was taken out of plastic baby bottles in 2012, one of the very few chemicals that have ever been restricted in the US market. I mean there's only been like seven or 12 in the whole history of chemicals. So you know, don't get me started. But yeah, I mean, I think it was just a matter of reaching out and trying to figure out if this material post training was real. Because when it's not learned during a training period, and we see this in western medicine when you graduate, a lot of western doctors are not very open minded to even integrative medicine, which I'm trained in, and functional medicine and nutrition and sleep medicine, stress and how it affects the body. But it's very hard to change what you've learned when you buy into it in such a, you know, regimen and way. And so that's, that was hard. It was pulling myself out of that training and really starting to think there's gotta be other reasons why these people are getting sick and younger.
- [09:39]
Ginny Urich
Isn't that interesting? Especially because you're, you're devoting all of this time and finances and like these different resources to this training. And if it's not a part of it, then you could totally see how a doctor, and then you're busy in your practice would be missing these big pieces. What's interesting about your story, Dr. Cohen in particular, is that you made the shift. So you're coming at this from not only a knowledge base, but also an experience, personal experience base where you say, you know, I was drinking the diet sodas, I was eating processed foods, I was using toxic cleaning supplies, I was spritzing and rubbing all of these chemical products, personal care products all over my body. And it is a difficult topic, I think, because of the breadth of it. You know, it's like everywhere. It's in your water, it's your food, it's your cleaning products, it's, it's all of these everyday things. But yet you were able to make some major shifts. And I think that's a really cool perspective to come from. Can you talk about how the government is not involved here in terms of helping to keep people safe?
- [10:40]
Dr. Ailey Cohen
Yeah. So this is really one of the key points to kind of hit home is that in the United States, we have no regulation, limited to very, very little regulation in terms of whether or not chemicals, synthetic chemicals, meaning those that are put into lots of products, makeup and textile, you know, like stain guard sprays and our utensils, our cookware, our food certainly, and even get into our water. But there's no regulations, there's no required testing by manufacturers on safety or toxicity of vast majority of these chemicals. I mean, very few of them. And what we do know is done by third party academic centers like my cohort, author Fred Vomsall and all of his crew international work, because these chemicals, of course, cross borders, but they're restricted a lot more in other countries and have different formulations, believe it or not, in certain companies that are European that also share products with the US Totally different formulations. So the idea that government really, number one, was never on the ball. Back in 1938, when makeup was getting in trouble, we had people going blind with mascaras and, you know, all sorts of Crocombe things, but nothing really panned out in the 1930s, 30s. Then we move into the 1950s. And all along the way, even in 1976 with the toxic Substance Control act, again, not a lot of regulation that required testing. I mean, that's the first step. Let's test things if they're created, let's test them enough to know that they're safe before going into products for humans, even if they're animal tested. But that's never been required and still is not. And in fact, you know, it's one of those things that even products that may cause hair to come out, like one company that we might have heard of or anything else that comes up in the market from people just experiencing problems, US Government can't remove those from shelves. It's the manufacturers that choose to do that based on probably market share more than anything else. So it's a really big problem that was so hard for me to get my head around. Now, mind you, I want to tell your audience, I color my hair, in case you didn't figure that one out. And, you know, my kids are lacrosse players, and I'm at lacrosse fields with synthetic turf. And, you know, I do my share of going out to dinner and traveling. And I think at this point, I just want to make sure people know that nugget that whatever we say moving forward, it's not about perfection. It's really about doing the best you can with the knowledge that you pick up. And it's a journey for everybody. So I. I just want to make sure people don't tune out Tokyo when they start to hear, you know, some of these numbers and sort of this daunting picture, because I can share with you, even through the book and through our conversation, that there's so much we can do to reduce exposures.
- [13:21]
Ginny Urich
Yes. And I love that the book is called Detoxify. That actually really drew me in because our bodies can detoxify. And so you also have a whole section on ways that you can detoxify. So to your point, it doesn't have to necessarily be perfect because we can do different things. Moving our lymphatic system and sweating and different foods even can help our bodies to detoxify. So we're going to get there. This is all in the book. The book is fantastic. You talk about this, and I actually found this, Dr. Cohen, to be relatable to almost everything. It's called the precautionary principle. In this day and age, you talk about you can't rely on the government or Manufacturers to protect you from environmental toxins. You can't rely on them to conduct more studies. Tens of thousands of chemicals have never been tested for human safety. Like never as in no safety testing ever. So you talk about this precautionary principle, the better safe than sorry type thing, which really applies to so much, doesn't it, Dr. Cohen? I mean, it applies to, you know, you don't really know if your kid's going to get addicted to that video game. You don't really know if your kid is going to get addicted to pornography. You don't really know. You know, all these food dyes that you're consuming in the quantities that maybe you're consuming are safe in the long run. Like there's so many of these things that we don't really know and nobody really talks about living life that way. Dr. Cohen.
- [14:42]
Dr. Ailey Cohen
Yeah, and I don't want people to think that that fear is such a driving force in everything we do, right? We want to have a great quality of life, we want to enjoy our kids, we want to go to lacrosse games, we want to color our hair if we think that that's what we want. But I think the precautionary principle is so critical because it's saying that in the face of a situation where we have some pretty good data from different sources and we have an inkling that something may not be good for us on any level, it might be a good idea to avoid it. Even if there's not hard and fast cause and effect data. Because so many of the recommendations, I mean there's so many that are evidence based, like it's filled with references. People can look up studies that I call out. There's no limitation on that. But there's a lot of stuff that I recommend or things that have not been tested because they need to have million dollar studies. They have to be paid for by someone or a grant or an academic center. They have to be, there's been, it has to be an interest, there has to be some kind of return on investment, you know, so it's one of those things where, you know, just like having tea bags instead of, you know, doing loose leaf, which is a lot lower in microplastics. So we know from some testing versus say tea bags, that's a swap. But are there double blinded placebo control studies in large populations of people looking at the difference? No, no one's going to pay for that. But we know that there are a lot of microplastics and we've tested that in water and solutions and tea and coffee. We know they're not good for us. So let's put that together and just create in our mind that maybe we want to swap. That's all.
- [16:17]
Ginny Urich
And you come up with so many different simple swaps.
- [16:21]
Unknown Speaker
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- [17:38]
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- [20:09]
Ginny Urich
You have this main premise of that this doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg. This isn't for people that are uber wealthy. And in fact loose leaf tea is probably somewhat cheaper. You know, if you buy it in a bulk or I mean I've got friends, they've got little mason jars filled of like dried hibiscus or, or whatever that maybe in the long run this might even be a cheaper option. I like this man, Stephen Rinella. He wrote a book called Outdoor Kids in an Inside World and this always stuck with me. He said I don't need data to tell me that I feel better when I go outside. So just this thought of making some of our own decisions due to the fact that the government is not testing these things and there are so many different chemicals out there. You wrote this. I believe environmental chemicals are the number one cause of most acute and chronic health conditions. Both. Can you explain the difference between acute and chronic health conditions and how environmental chemicals might be contributing to both of them?
- [21:06]
Dr. Ailey Cohen
Yeah, I think it starts with some of my training and the premise of the immune system. You know, we have an immune system that has been eloquently, you know, created and we know that it is so intricate in how it works and it's. And it's also conserved, meaning it likes to save its energy. It likes to save like moms, you know, like parents. Like, we're trying to save up our energy because we know at some point we're going to like be out all day at five soccer games and have to come back to four birthday parties and we're tired. So we kind of try to conserve the day before or the day after. But the idea is the immune system and many of the systems, the hormones and, you know, the endocrine system, our bodies want to keep that energy quiet. So it can do other things. It can get nutrition from food, it can make babies, it can, you know, grow, you know, it can make our bones strong. All those things are conserved. But what happens with the immune system in a very simplistic form is that the immune system hasn't seen these chemicals. And these are chemicals that we put on our skin, right? Because we think, okay, the dermatologist maybe gave us a scream or said that, you know, we went and thought that, oh, clean beauty, this was a brand that we don't have to check. But we let the marketing speak for itself. And we're going to believe it because it's on the shelves. Someone must have done the data and the research on this. So when I talk about acute, I talk about things like dermatitis or you get a rash from something you put on your skin or, you know, when you breathe in some air from, you know, cleaning products or pollutants in cities and you have higher rates of asthma in those cities, you have higher rates of respiratory illness. You have exacerbation of acute emphysema, you know, acute. On chronic diseases. The idea is that our body has both a quick acting form of protection and chronic forms of protection, at least attempts. And different parts of the immune system work at different rates. And so that's what I'm starting to. Well, not what I'm starting to say, but see, but really what we've seen in terms of the literature, that's why we don't have a lot of like, say for instance, allergies. You know, we don't, we don't have a lot of cupcakes going to schools. Right. Because there's too many food allergies. That comes from priming the immune system in a negative way to the fact that now we're reactive to a lot of, you know, components of food, many chemicals, not just peanuts as a aspect, you know, a substance, but really chemicals as well, that are really starting to trigger the immune system, so to speak. And it's doing its job. That's the thing. The immune system's so fantastic and interesting, but it's reacting and it's doing its job. We are just throwing too much at it. And that's where you start to have these immune disrupting chemicals affecting immune disorders. You're also seeing metabolic issues. Metabolic meaning weight gain. People think it's all about food quality or food sort of macros, you know, fats or carbs or how much we eat each day. These chemicals have an important role in affecting whether fat cells get larger, whether stem cells that are their first cells become fat cells, diabetes management. All of this is actually tied to many chemicals that we now know from animal and human studies.
- [24:10]
Ginny Urich
Wow.
- [24:11]
Dr. Ailey Cohen
Yeah, it's a lot.
- [24:12]
Ginny Urich
Just before talking with you, I talked to this man named Mark Schatzer, I think is how you pronounce it. And you wrote a book called the Dorito Effect. It's a decade old, all about the chemicals, the flavoring chemicals in food.
- [24:23]
Dr. Ailey Cohen
Oh, there's crunch chemicals. There's literally crunch chemicals, food activity chemicals.
- [24:30]
Ginny Urich
Wow. And how it just tricks your whole body. It tricks your body to want to crave it. It tricks your body to not understand nutritional wisdom. And that these types of chemicals, similar to what you're talking about, are not tested. And also they're not even known that the manufacturers is able to put natural flavorings. You have no idea what's in there.
- [24:48]
Dr. Ailey Cohen
It's proprietary. It's like the Coca Cola formulation. You know, we're talking about, you know, manufacturing way more favored than human health since really the beginnings of any of these, you know, synthetic chemicals. And now what's really happened is, you know, you know, the horse has been let out of the stable, and we can't go backwards because they're now in everything. There's no required testing for these individual chemicals now that they've been added to the market. But now we have so much more research. So it's like a little bit of a whack, a mole. You know, we're trying to chase after something we've let out. Again, my point is, and what I feel, based on What I'm seeing is we can't wait for regulation. You know, red dye number three was just, you know, banned. That's not going to take effect until 2027 for food and 2028 for medications. Because, yeah, red dye and a lot of these chemicals are in the meds we take, right? They help things go down smoother, they taste better for, you know, liquid formulations type of thing. But the idea is that if we were to wait for all these even new, wonderful regulations. Look, I'm not going to poo poo any of them, but it's too late when you're talking about thousands that mix together, that get into our system. Some get in, some get out, some we break down, some we don't. But it's just too long for us to wait for anyone else to do it for us. So there's just some very simple things we can learn from just doing it now and seeing how we feel even.
- [26:08]
Ginny Urich
So one of the things you talk about in this book, Detoxify, is you talk about different stages of development. And I think this is important too, because like you said, if they don't actually have to be out of the food until 2027, and right now you have a toddler or right now you're pregnant, these things could be exposures that are happening at, you know, pretty substantial developmental stages. So can you talk about, I mean, I know you talk about pregnancy, you talk about babies and infants, you talk about teenagers, you talk about menopause, that there are these sort of specific time frames in life where these things might have a big impact on health. What should we be looking out for?
- [26:48]
Dr. Ailey Cohen
So primarily this is the discussion of these, what we call vulnerable periods of human development. And vulnerable meaning there's lots of change, growth and development, but also hormonal changes. And the reason that means a lot to this discussion of chemicals is because we now know, because the first set of, you know, worldwide data comes from endocrine disruption, EDCs, or endocrine disrupting chemicals. Well, it really means, like, chemicals that mess with the hormones in our body, because that's what endocrine system is, right? It's hormones generally that are basically signalers. They're messengers. They tell the body what to do to grow the brain, the body. You know, whether or not we become fertile or not is a lot to do with our hormones. Whether or not, you know, our bones get stronger or weaker in menopause. Teenagers, whether they go through puberty, whether they get their periods earlier, that has shifted, we know, from exposures. So the idea is that there's these windows where hormones specifically are really created and broken down much more quickly and, and actively. And that seems to be the areas where these chemicals can have greater effect, you know, in terms of. Because they act like hormones themselves, mimickers of hormones, there may be more of a risk. And the reason which I love that you brought this up is that I, I knew this information as I was learning it over 10, 15 years. But it was so interesting to me that half having, you know, lectured to 25 hospitals to give this information out. Once I created, you know, I worked with Environmental Working Group and I put together this great lecture and I was like, I'm going to change the world. I'm going to change the medical system. I'm going to teach people and practice who come to these meetings at their hospitals that, you know, this is what's going on. Didn't get a lot of love or feedback, didn't get a lot of interest. It's so interesting. And then I was in the kitchen with my babysitter when the kids were little and she goes, you know, she picks up my book at the time, or I think it was the text textbook at the time. And then she said, you know, I wonder if my shampoo is killing me or something. You know, really what a cute teenager would say because she kind of knew what I was doing and like a light bulb went off and I thought this, this is the demographic. Not only do I know they may be more vulnerable because they just are teeming with hormones like my kids now, but they're also potentially more vulnerable. But then there's all these opportunities to help educate teenagers. They love learning how to look up makeup on an app. And I've done this. So, you know, with, so I experimented. I did two pilot projects at Princeton High School. They were so great and really tried to figure out if the kids wanted this information, whether they cared about it. I mean, I wasn't going to go forward if it was like a dud. And it turns out overwhelmingly that these kids really thought not only was the topic important, but they felt, felt very empowered to know what was going to go in their body. So we had this kind of, you know, this collision of where the risk really lies. The demographic who uses the most number of personal care products in a 24 hour period. It's upwards of like 17 products. And I can attest to that if you smell my house in the morning and then, you know, the idea that you can implement some great education where they can use it the rest of their lives before they get pregnant or before they move on with their lives and make choices for their own health and maybe prevent some issues they may not otherwise, you know, have done through knowledge. So that's kind of how that data turned into actual, you know, studies and then hopefully implementation like I put in the book.
- [30:11]
Ginny Urich
So you talk about These endocrine disruptors, EDCs, and then you coined the term immune disrupting chemicals, IDCs for the endocrine system and for like our kids and their home hormones in the teens. One of the big things you talk about is fragrances. And I think this is an interesting one because, you know, it's like, I think, I mean, maybe it might be like out of popularity, but like, I remember seeing all those commercials for like Axe body spray. It's like they're pulling on that desire to be desired, basically. Right. They're taking that and, you know, then you've got this body spray and all these girls are going to come around you. And yet in reality. Can we talk about fragrances? I mean, we do Airbnbs here and there.
- [30:51]
Dr. Ailey Cohen
Yeah.
- [30:52]
Ginny Urich
And every time we walk into an Airbnb that the first thing we do is we pull out all of the plugins.
- [30:56]
Dr. Ailey Cohen
Yeah.
- [30:56]
Ginny Urich
It is so much.
- [30:57]
Unknown Speaker
Yes, much.
- [30:59]
Dr. Ailey Cohen
And, you know, that's the thing about scent is that we think it's benign. We think that there's no issue to it. I did my. In fact, I talk about in the book how one day when I was learning this material about what's called phthalates, which are generally the huge class of chemicals that are essentially tied to fragrance. Okay.
- [31:14]
Ginny Urich
They.
- [31:15]
Dr. Ailey Cohen
They're tied to a lot of things, plastic chemicals and some other things. But for the purpose of this moment, they're really tied to keeping scents lasting longer. And they're really endocrine disrupting chemicals. They act like hormones, they act specifically like low level estrogens, but they can affect insulin levels. Insulin is a hormone that affects sugar, fertility hormones like estrogen, androgens, growth and growth hormone, thyroid hormone. So the thing about, you know, these endocrine disrupting chemicals, because they came first in terms of the research, endocrine disrupting chemicals came first. That's where majority of the data comes from. But while they were doing research on hormones, which, by the way, are part of the immune system too, because every immune system cell has estrogen receptors. And, you know, so they're not separate siloed communicators. Right. We have systems. But while they were coming up with all this data on how they work for hormones, they Also stumbled across all these findings for the immune system effects, but no one really kind of framed it in that way. And there wasn't as much data. When I had this discussion with Dr. Vomsal, my mentor, he's, like, amazing. And he said, you should really write this as a rheumatologist, because we haven't framed it in that way. And yet we have so much data to look at these chemicals and really say, these are connections that we need to not, you know, dismiss. So, yeah, so the hormones are really a big deal. We know that phthalates, which, again, are the chemicals that are generally. Cause you know, are part of fragrance industry. They're not banned, they're not tested. They're pervasive in all our products. You know, laundry detergents and Axe Body Spray. And even, gosh, in high school, I had eternity. I mean, I'm probably older than you, but, I mean, we loved Drakkar. I mean, what guy didn't. Wasn't hot when he put Drakkar Noir on or whatever? I mean, hopefully your audience is chuckling right now, but these are scents that almost, like, bring you back to high school or a time in your life. But those scents, believe it or not, get into your bloodstream when you breathe them in. They're just like air. They ride on air. Right. And so the problem from a regulatory standpoint is that they're not tested before. They go into products that have scents. You know, cleaning products, laundry, that kind of thing. They could be made up of 3, 400 chemicals on the word fragrance or perfume on a bottle. So anytime you see the word fragrance or perfume, remember, it's proprietary. The companies do not have to tell you anything, but they do often say fragrance or perfume. And it could be in something that's, by the way, no smell or unscented. Believe it or not, you can still actually find some fragrance and perfume because it's scents that cover other scents. And the punchline is that you can look at these products and get better versions anyway. So I just don't want people to be freaking out. But in general, fragrance are sort of these, you know, sexy things we like to plug in. And we like to make our house, you know, Christmassy and holiday, you know, pumpkin charm and peppermint spice and ocean breeze. And I had a whole drawer of these. And the day I realized how bad they could be, I took the whole drawer and dumped it. I probably could have sold it somewhere else, but the idea is that I made a decision that there was enough data to remove it from my home so I could remove it from my body and the body of my family who are breathing this in. And your home is your best place to control anything really. That's your kingdom. Right? So that's where you start, I think.
- [34:30]
Ginny Urich
And I love that you give these different swaps. You even have different things that you can make. You've got different recipes in here because there are other things that you can do. Like people like to do those simmer pots. So you could do a simmer pot with wholesome ingredients and that can make your home smell the way that you want it to smell or just cooking whole food sometimes, you know, it would make your home smell really good. These different things that you could do. I do think that the laundry fragrance is a really enticing one. Like it's something that's really hard for people to give up.
- [34:59]
Dr. Ailey Cohen
Oh, it's billion dollar industry to get these scents. You know the commercials where they're just holding up laundry and they're just like heavenly. It's like better than like, you know, drugs. They're like, woo. Yeah. I think this is, we are, we've been marketed to for decades to be cleaner than anyone else that are. We need a door handle cleaner, we need a kitchen cleaner, we need a window cleaner, we need an oven cleaner, we need a drain cleaner. I mean, you name it. Toilet bowl cleaner. I mean, you name an item in your home and they've marketed that you need to clean it or you're bad or you're not keeping up with the Joneses or you're not going to be, you're going to get your kids sick with Microsoft microbes. We want some of those microbes. We don't want to kill off the bugs around us. That's what makes our immune system stronger. This is why kids go to daycare and often they get sick. But they're strong for the rest of their lives really because they're getting exposed to a lot of different components of the, you know, that stretch their immune system. So I just, you know, I urge people to sort of rethink sort of the brainwashing we grew up with and start to pull out of that in a way that doesn't, you know, make them sad and, you know, too nostalgic and you know, not want to do it. It's just a matter of pacing yourself and realizing what is the science and what are the intervent interventions that are pretty easy and it's cheaper. It is cheaper not to buy junk. It is cheaper not to even have to think to get it. And you can have one surface cleaner that you make with vinegar and lemon juice and scrubbing with sea salt that's coarse and castile soap. And I put those recipes in there. But you can also look on the right websites to get the ones already done for you. You're busy, you buy the ones that really have been ranked to be safer. And that's not my job. That's not your job. That's a job of someone who's vetted and I respect that. So that's where I rely on my data.
- [36:46]
Ginny Urich
It's a lot of trickery because I, I think that there are groups of people who would say, I don't actually feel that my clothes are clean unless they smell like this. And so then they get used to the smell. They don't even really smell it hardly anymore, but those chemicals are affecting them. And you wrote phthalates, which starts with a phthalate.
- [37:08]
Dr. Ailey Cohen
It's actually phthalates you say with the th. I know, it's really weird.
- [37:11]
Ginny Urich
Anyway, it's like phth. Yeah, yeah, phthalates, Phth. A large class of chemicals have been shown to disrupt normal hormone function, immune system function, and genitalia development in male babies. They've also been found to increase the risk of thyroid and other hormone sensitive cancers, among other serious health concerns. So you just want to be thinking about, what are you washing your clothes in? Do we need to have those plugins, that type of thing? Because to me, the sort of. Obviously, like food is a little trickier to switch. Water is a little trickier to switch to like not use fragrances. Yeah, that's maybe a little bit easier.
- [37:50]
Dr. Ailey Cohen
Right.
- [37:50]
Ginny Urich
It's like, I'm not going to spray on this perfume. I'm going to pull out these plugins.
- [37:54]
Dr. Ailey Cohen
Yeah.
- [37:54]
Ginny Urich
I'm just going to use a detergent that is unscented completely.
- [37:58]
Dr. Ailey Cohen
Yeah.
- [37:58]
Ginny Urich
There's no cost, there's no additional cost there. And in fact, you're probably saving money.
- [38:02]
Dr. Ailey Cohen
Removal is. So in fact, we might get to this. I might as well bring it up now. But I, you know, I teach programs for doctors, you know, so the punchline to some of the beginning of our conversation was they're not teaching this in med school. So I said, I'm going to go around that and I'm going to work in programs that are called, you know, kind of education, integrative medicine and functional medicine training for doctors who are looking to find nutritional training, you know, eastern medicine, training on acupuncture and Chinese medicine, environmental health information, all vetted and all scientific. And so there are now three. There's probably more, but there's three programs that I use my curriculum for because people want it even though they have to pay for it beyond med school costs. It's like insane.
- [38:45]
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- [42:25]
Dr. Ailey Cohen
And one of the ways that I was figuring out how to teach high school students the same material as grown human professional physicians and other healthcare workers. It's the same in my way, in my feeling, it's the same navigation, it's the same tools, and I called it the four A's and the four A's of environmental health that I could dig up. What was number one? Assess. You know, you kind of have to kind of have an idea, just like the conversation on phthalates, that phthalates are a thing, that phthalates being harmful, are a thing. You may not have deep, deep dive into the science and the molecular, you know, mechanisms, but there's enough to gather in your brain that you kind of think like, okay, this might be bad. Then there's so it's assessed. Then the second thing is avoid or swap. But I used avoid because of the A's. Right? But the avoid is really, what can you avoid if you know this? So like you said, maybe start buying things that have no fragrance, no perfume on the label. Maybe you vetted them out. Maybe you just know that they don't have chemicals because it's just vinegar and water and castile soap or something. But you can also swap. There's always a better option when you have the right resources that are free, like Apps on a phone like Yuka or Clear YA or environmental working group. Very simple free apps. My kids look them up. My high school students look up their products, their cleaning products, their personal care. So first is assess, second is avoid or swap. The third, which we can get into is add. What does the human body need to do better in modern day times? We need better nutrition. We need really clean food that has high nutritional value. And guess what? We can do that through just organic frozens. Organic frozen foods democratize food quality and safety, in my opinion, because they're accessible and everywhere. And that's just one of the swaps you can make. And then the last A is allow. And that's my hair. Colored, colored hair. It's the lacrosse fields. It's travel, it's buying water, bottled water. When you have no options, it's the part of life that you don't get dinged for because it wasn't easy to figure out or you didn't have access to it. And I think you need to have the allow in order to do so much of the other stuff in your own page case or else it's just too restricting and it's too daunting. So the four A's make sense to me and that's how I applied them to the 21 day plan. It's very simple.
- [44:43]
Ginny Urich
And the book is structured this way. The book detoxify the everyday toxins harming your immune system and how to defend against them is structured around these A's. Before we go any further, because you talked about teaching and you're teaching teens and you're teaching professionals, what are some of the courses that you offer and where can people find those?
- [44:59]
Dr. Ailey Cohen
Yeah. So I started really thinking, instead of just going for the programs and the high schools that are so individual, I wanted to reach more people. So the Smart Human was my original, you know, call out to the world that these, this was an issue. So I started the platform on social media called the Smart Human. And then I had the website, the smarthuman.com where you can sign up for newsletter. But I just started adding courses and I charge them a very small amount because I don't sell brands, I don't endorse companies. I'm like squeaky clean to do my academic work. Made that conscious choice. But of course I need to feed some of my work like my podcasts and my in my writing. So it's just courses are added where people want them and I think they're very reasonable conversations. One's on drinking water, one's on pesticides, one's on heavy metals. And so it's just an offering where people can go to the website and decide what's important to them, if they want to dip in or not.
- [45:51]
Ginny Urich
We haven't talked a lot about drinking water on here, and this is, I think, sometimes one that's a little bit more overwhelming.
- [45:57]
Dr. Ailey Cohen
Yeah.
- [45:58]
Ginny Urich
I think pulling out plugins and swapping for an unscented laundry detergent, while maybe sad, is not as difficult as sort of figuring out the water situation. And I know there's been big things in the news. We're in Michigan, so there were big things in the news here about the water and the pipes and all of these types of things. And you wrote one of the most actionable pieces of advice in this book is about learning what's in your water and how to filter it the right way so that you can protect yourself and your family. Drinking water is the most egregious, overlooked, undervalued source of human body contamination. What's going on and what can we do about it?
- [46:36]
Dr. Ailey Cohen
Yeah. So, you know, look, when you get so deep in this topic and you know a lot about a lot, it's hard to say, well, which one, you know, technically is. Is the highest yield change? You know, I start to figure out, like, what is the most important stuff to change that affects your body? Why don't we dip into that and see? And I really came down to the conclusion that based on what I know about our drinking water regulation for municipal taps or tap water, which services, by the way, 85% of the US population, and then wells generally service about 15% of the population. Right. Some people have wells in their home or their town or they're small, they're rural. Some people have city water because they're in bigger cities and towns. The idea is that the municipal tap water follows a law. And you're going to hear this, like from this morning, you know, from this earlier part of our conversation. The regulation is so poor that we still follow laws from 1974, 76 of the Safe Drinking Water Act. So we're 50 years outdated from all of the chemicals that actually get into our water system from lakes, from streams, from the air quality falls, in aquaphores underneath the ground from pharmaceuticals. Pharmaceuticals.
- [47:49]
Ginny Urich
That's the one. When I heard about that from my midwife, I was like, well, sewage.
- [47:54]
Dr. Ailey Cohen
Sewage becomes, you know, things that we pee and poop out into the water become our drinking water. That's, like, shocking. Right? Farming, industry, you know, runoff from floods. You know, we're having a lot of climate related changes. So the idea that in tornadoes and all this, so everything can get into our water, the water goes to these systems in municipal tap, they go in one side, they come out, and there's only 91 chemicals since 1976 that are actually looked at for levels and removed by law. That leaves all these other thousands potentially going up and down. We don't know, you know, seasonally you get different pesticides in water and that kind of thing, but it really leaves that water. When it leaves the system. It also travels maybe 20, 30 miles through lead piping. PVC piping is the replacement. It could have a break along the way, who knows? But once it leaves that system goes to your house, you're kind of taking whatever they even added, like chlorine and detergents. Right. Because they have to be added. But what my argument is is like wherever your water's coming from, I don't care if it comes underneath your house, you know, which there's no laws for, by the way, in terms of testing, unless you sell your home. But whether it comes from a well or comes from municipal tap, if your source of water into your home, you get a chance to clean it when it hits your glass right before it hits your glass at the point of use. And it could be any filtration system. But I urge people to think about the ones that are most aggressive because they're now much cheaper than they've ever been. So I think that's at least worth, you know, hearing about too. And that's reverse osmosis. Yeah. As opposed to maybe carbon block.
- [49:23]
Ginny Urich
Okay, okay. And that's all in the book Detoxify with so many other amazing pieces of information. This is how to eat clean in a dirty world without breaking the bank. How should you wash your produce? How can you use the codes to get the safest produce? What about your personal care products? What about chemicals and medication? All of these different things I would love to hit before we wrap up. Glyphosate. So we've talked about this very minimally on this show. It's something that I didn't really realize was even as big of a deal as it is. But you were able to determine how much glyphosate was in your body. You took a test, and then you can use certain foods to help detoxify. That's the title of the book. Some of this glyphosate out of the body. So just a little background there on like it's getting sprayed pretty much on a Lot of things. And what test did you do? And then how did you lower it?
- [50:13]
Dr. Ailey Cohen
Yeah. So again, all of these years I was testing myself. I didn't know what to believe. I didn't know who to believe. I didn't know, you know, I would read the literature and then I'd figure out if there was a test. And then I changed my behavior and I'd retest. I mean, I was supersizing myself, if you remember back to, to that documentary. But the idea is that glyphosate is one of thousands of pesticides that have been green lit into our system in the farming industry. And it turns out it's one of the, it is the highest volume herbicide. Herbicide is like, you know, what kills weeds, right? Pesticides can kill bugs. They can kill pests of any kind. But herbicides are specific to weeds, more or less. Okay. So they're in our farming industry. And you know, glyphosate does its job. It really does work. And in fact, you know, Monsanto and some of these big, big agricultural companies, they actually even made seeds that would withstand the spraying and live through a spraying of glyphosate. So it would kill the weeds and leave the plant to grow. And what that does is that actually adds glyphosate into the food that's growing. So they're genetically engineered. So whenever you hear about, you know, genetically modified, it tends to have higher rates of glyphosate because that's typically what's paired to the seeds. The long story short is that glyphosate is one of many. Right. But it just is very popular because people have heard of Roundup. You know, a lot of people garden this summer. I mean, I, I, it's, it's being banned from residential use, but it's still being used. And I think again, that might be phasing out in 28 or something. 20, 28, not now. But the idea is that glyphosate has effects on human health, carcinogenic effects. We know there's big cases on multiple myeloma from landscapers that work a lot with it. But the idea is that we just don't want it in our body. It is a neurotoxin, it is a carcinogen, it has immune health effects. It certainly can affect the gut microbiome in the gut, because it may directly affect the microbes because what, it kills bugs, Right. So why not in our gut? So the idea is that, but we want to try to avoid pesticides in general, not just glyphosate. And the way you can start to do that, and I mean this is by moving into what's called USDA organic foods. It doesn't mean everything has to be perfect. It doesn't mean you're going to find all the things that are organic. But what's so interesting is that the market has expanded exponentially and that does not allow for genetically modified ingredients that label. And that usually means lower levels of glyphosate in general. And I mentioned frozen organics because I want people to be able to afford, you know, this recommendation. And I've gone into many, many stores across the country to test this, you know, theory. But it turns out frozen USDA organic foods, which is basically, that has the circle that's green and says usda, that means that no synthetic chemicals such as preservatives for food colors, additives like red dye number three, typically genetically modified, any anything that would probably pull in glyphosate and pesticides. So it is much cleaner food. It is the only regulation we actually have in the US food market or really in the whole market of chemicals in the US and it turns out that frozen USDA organics are very lucrative to big box supermarkets. They make their own a lot and that lowers the pricing. And it turns out frozen foods are also healthier from a nutrition standpoint because they're flash frozen. Once they're picked, they're like sent right to the freezer and they stay nutritious all the way through their process until you eat them as opposed to some of the things that are more freshly fresh food organic sections of our supermarket, often they have traveled a long distance to get to where they are so the nutritional level goes down. So, so the combination of USDA organic and frozen is really a win win. Who thought that you wouldn't go directly to fresh? I mean, fresh is great for farmers markets. And I like to, you know, buy local and really know your farmers. There's nothing wrong with that at all. And that's really nutritious. But the idea is for vast majority of us, we don't have that access.
- [54:10]
Ginny Urich
And when you're talking about herbicides and pesticides, you also recommend just watching out for playgrounds, maybe even calling, you know, you want to find out when did they spray their grass. And you know, what's treated is, are the wood chips treated? We took our kids Disney, let's see, seven years ago we went, we've gone once and our youngest was one and you know, one year olds, they're just kind of like Playing in the wood chips. And this guy was like, do not let her do that. You know, it wasn't a worker. It was just someone who was at the, you know, the Disney parks. And it was like, don't. I think he said they, like, spray it every other day with stuff to make sure that it stays pristine. So he was like, don't let her touch the wood chips. So even that type of thing you're bringing up in this book, detoxify to remind parents there's a lot of different ways, places. There's a lot of different places to look for these different things. Not to be overwhelmed, but just to be aware. And, you know, you can find out when and if they're spraying and so that you can help to keep your kids away from some of those things, especially in those vulnerable developmental periods like you're talking about. And then you went through this book and talked about how you were able to change your glyphosate numbers because certain foods help the body eliminate toxins. And you go through a bunch of different types of foods.
- [55:19]
Dr. Ailey Cohen
Yeah, like cruciferous vegetables. Okay. Broccoli, kohlrabi, kale. I mean, I didn't even know. I mean, I don't even cook that much, nor did I ever. But, like, I didn't even realize that there's this huge number of cruciferous vegetables that we're probably not even thinking about. But what they do to the human body is they rev up really important chemicals and compounds in the liver that help break down some of the chemicals. This is from studies we do know. Right. Because, again, these have to come through academic channels. But guess what? Cruciferous vegetables really do help us detoxify. And especially, again, you think if they're USDA organic, and you can get frozen broccoli heads, frozen asparagus, you can get all these in organic form in many, many places. Not everybody. Not everywhere. But the idea is that food is. Medicine is so critical, it has been for millions of years in our bodies. We just have to go back to it and understand, well, how do you get the best version of food when you have the opportunity? There's other foods. You know, we know that when people have enough vitamin C or iron in their body, even, especially children, which was studied, they don't absorb as much lead and cadmium from just everyday exposures wherever they may get that. And so, you know, things like omega 3 fish oil, like, or from eating fish, like small fish, as opposed to big fish, that have a lot less chemicals because the big fish eat up the little fish, so they kind of get more toxins up to the big guys. The big fish usually have a lot of mercury and stuff. The idea is sardines and herring and mackerel and salmon. It's, you know, there's an acronym for it called smash salmon, mackerel, anchovies, herring, A salmon and herring. The idea is small fish are good in general, wild caught are great. And we have food that helps offset many of the problems that chemicals do to our cells, how they express genes, whether or not you're at higher risk for cancer. And so, again, it's not to spook people into freaking out and running around like crazy. It's really to think about very evolution, very anthropologic topics, which is take away the junk we're not used to, add in the nutrition. I call it human fertilizer. And the body starts to do a lot of good things that it was meant to do, and you're just supporting those processes. Sweating helps. Kidney function gets better. When you don't have a lot of junk, it has to sort through. Your gut stays healthier, which is your immune system, as well as everything else. So there's just so much good from taking away the bad and adding in some really good, reasonable stuff.
- [57:41]
Ginny Urich
Yeah. You talk about even dandelion greens. So this book will be out by the time this podcast goes live. It comes out at the beginning of May, and you might have dandelions that you haven't sprayed, so you can use dandelion greens. You talk about how you became adamant about shaping your diet around detoxifying foods, adding at least a serving of probiotics every day. That's so cheap. You know, you get a big thing of sauerkraut from Costco and you do a tablespoon at each meal or 2 tablespoons or, you know, just a little dollop with your eggs, whatever. It's really delicious. Put it on your salad. That's going to last you a month. So the probiotics are helpful. You talk about the top eight detoxifying foods in this book, viewing the body as a human filtration filtration system. Then you go through all sorts of ways. Sweating and exercise and trampoline and sleep. Even sleep. Yeah, even sleep. Many of the sleep 21 day. Plan all these different appendixes. And I don't know if that's how you say that word, appendix, appendices.
- [58:35]
Dr. Ailey Cohen
But I like that you said appendices because we're thinking body parts. I like that.
- [58:39]
Ginny Urich
Yes. So all of these different bits of information at the end too that are really, really helpful. You have a list of online resources, you have recipes in here of different things that you can try and then like I said, the different types of cleaners that you can make DIY. So each appendix is really, really helpful. 100 top detoxifying foods to add to your shopping cart. That's appendix one. So this is a 300 plus page book that is going to help your family. It is called Detoxify. Dr. Cohen, what an honor for you to come and talk with us about it. I'm so thankful that you have this consumer book out. You've done textbooks, you've been speaking to professionals, but this consumer book is so needed for this day and age. We always end our show with the same question. What's a favorite memory from your childhood that was outside?
- [59:25]
Dr. Ailey Cohen
Favorite memory from childhood that's outside, I have to say, really? Sports. Sports and being, you know, like my boys. I just always love sports sweating and competition and camaraderie. So when I think about my childhood, I think a lot about the sports events and being part of that outdoor excitement. So yeah, thank you.
- [59:47]
Ginny Urich
What was your favorite sport to play?
- [59:49]
Dr. Ailey Cohen
So I played actually lacrosse outside. I really like lacrosse and I since then I can't really grab a team any anywhere and I'm a little old but I like running. So it's really just taking off from that childhood feeling of freedom and, and you know, empowerment and being able to do it whenever you want. I love that independence. So, you know, that was, that's what I do now and watch my boys that play lacrosse. So that's kind of fun.
- [60:11]
Ginny Urich
Yes. Well, Dr. Cohen, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for this fabulous book, your third Detoxify the everyday toxins harming your immune system and how to defend against them. Thank you for being here.
- [60:22]
Dr. Ailey Cohen
Thank you Jenny for having me and thank you to your audience for listening. I appreciate it.
- [60:30]
Mac
Are you looking for your new favorite podcast that's both entertaining and will challenge you in your walk with Jesus? Hey, we're Mac and Kenz from the for the Girl podcast. Every Tuesday we break down everything that we wish someone had told told us in our 20s. From faith and relationships to wild career transition. We're getting real about all of our mess ups and the things God has taught us along the way. Think of us as your hilarious weekly dose of honest conversation with your Internet besties who've been exactly where you currently are. So come check out for the girl on Apple, Spotify or wherever you love to listen to podcasts, and make sure to click Follow on our shows so that each new episode is dropped right into your personal feed.
- [61:17]
Dr. Edie Wadsworth
Hi dear one, I'm Dr. Edie Wadsworth, your new favorite Christian life coach, and I want to invite you to the House of Joy podcast. If you're a woman over 40 or the daughter of one who wants to build a positive mindset, healthier habits, and thriving relationships, this is the show for you. We talk about personal growth, growth, faith resilience, and creating a life you're obsessed with. So if you're tired of feeling stuck and ready to step into more joy and purpose, come join us. Listen now, wherever you get your podcast.