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The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
1KHO 477: What Every Boy Needs Before He Turns 10 (And Why It Starts With You) | Molly DeFrank, Mothering Boys
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- [00:01]
Molly Defrank
If you're a Christian, imagine what life would be like if you didn't have access to or had never even seen a Bible in your own language. For many people around the world, that is their reality. CREW has missionaries in almost every country and they're seeing people's lives changed. Thousands of men, women and children are coming to faith, but simply don't have access to a Bible of their own. In parts of Africa, CREW missionaries have to share one Bible between several people. In Europe, teens are asking for more Bibles than we can provide. In enclosed nations, this good news is spreading at an astonishing rate, but they need more physical Bibles to keep up with the growth.
- [00:37]
Jenny Urch
People are searching for truth and finding.
- [00:38]
Molly Defrank
Answers in God's word. That's why I love partnering with Crew. With just $24 a month, you can give three people the gift of God's word every month. And as a thank you, crew will provide 12 meals to those in need. And you'll receive a free copy of my book until the street lights come on. To give, text our H o u r to 71326 or visit give crew.org.
- [01:03]
Jenny Urch
Our h o u r that's h.
- [01:05]
Molly Defrank
O u r to 71326 message and data rates may apply US addresses only. Your monthly gift can truly make a massive impact.
- [01:16]
Jenny Urch
Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Urch and Molly Defrank is back. She has returned. Welcome.
- [01:25]
Molly Defrank
Thanks so much for having me. Jenny, I'm so excited to talk with you. It's always a pleasure.
- [01:28]
Jenny Urch
So the last time we talked, we talked about your wonderful book. Now, it had already been out for a little while called Digital detox. And this is a story of you taking the screens away and what happened. And we got so much phenomenal feedback on that podcast. So I'll make sure I put the link in the show notes. People can look back. I mean, that one had a long tail. Like, where it was like people were still sending me messages way, way after that podcast aired.
- [01:51]
Molly Defrank
And.
- [01:52]
Jenny Urch
And you have a new book coming out. It will be out by the time this podcast airs so people can run and go grab their copy. It is called mothering boys eight things your son needs from you before he turns 10. And I am always impressed, Molly, with people that can, like, distill their wisdom down into, you know, because I would be like, people were like, what do boys need before they're 10? I would be like, I don't know. So what is it that, you know, you're like, you have a lot of Kids, you foster a lot of kids, you're like, you know, these are core things that boys need in their younger years.
- [02:26]
Molly Defrank
Yeah, absolutely. Well, this book was really born out of a lot of the research that I did for that first book, Digital Detox. And I started noticing some things along the way, like, oh my gosh, kids are growing up completely differently now than we did in the 80s and 90s and early 2000s. And I was trying to put my finger on through the research, like, well, gosh, what is that? And what is what was great about our childhood that kids aren't getting today? And in doing that and looking at that, I also started to notice all these really negative narratives that are directed at our boys. And so holding those two things at the same time, I thought, man, I think moms really need to be resourced here for how do we train boys up in a world that's telling them that their masculinity is toxic and that the future is female? Like, what does that sound like to a 5 and 7 and 9 year old boy in today's world? And how can moms kind of get in front of that? And I think the two pieces of research that really kind of drive all of it is one that said worldview is primarily formed by the age of 13. So moms, we are clocking the most number of hours with our kids when they're young. And so I thought, okay, moms, we're really well positioned for this. And get this one. A child born today, by the time he turns seven, will have spent one whole year of 24 hour days being entertained passively by a device. So those had like alarms going off in my head and I'm like, okay, moms, let's huddle. What do our boys need? How can we give it to him? And really, from my position, I'm a Christian. My faith informs everything that I do. And so I kind of really wanted to resource Christian moms for how do we train our boys up in the faith and really give them what they need to grow up in this world?
- [04:07]
Jenny Urch
I had that statistic bolded on my page because it's actually a pretty interesting way to write it. By the age of seven, a child born today will have spent one full year of 24 hour days watching screen media. So you could equate that to three years of work days through the weekends. It's almost like half their life if you're looking at it like from a workday perspective. So, you know, to say one full year, 24 hour days, you're like, well, that's. It's wild. It's so much time.
- [04:36]
Molly Defrank
Yeah. And to think, you know, for the Christian mom, we're called to train and disciple our kids and we're thinking, gosh, we're just handing away all of this time that they could be really learning and gleaning wisdom and they're just not getting. And even for a non believing parent, all parents have things they want to impart. All kinds of wisdom and worldview they want to give to their kids. And I think we're letting those windows close, unfortunately.
- [05:02]
Jenny Urch
Yeah. And I think when your kids are small, so you and I can give this perspective. When your kids are small, it feels like 18 is forever away. And everybody says it flies by and you're like, there's no way. And then it does. Then you look back and you're like, oh, even if you have spent a lot of time off screens, you're like, oh, I wish, I wish we would have read this stack of books. We didn't get to that. You end up in the spot where you're like, oh, I didn't get to that. You know about a lot of things and there's still time. It's not the CLI. You know, they turn 18 and it's over. It's not true at all. However, like you said, if their worldview mainly is formed by age 13, I think that's really interesting then, Molly, because this book is very much geared toward the mother. And that makes sense then because, you know, a lot of times people talk about, well, I've only heard it one time, so I shouldn't say a lot of times. But this one author that I read, he was like, by the time his kids get to high school, he's his boys, he's sort of starting to take over, you know, more of the parenting and trying to get them ready for manhood. But like, that's not till high school. And their worldview has already been formed by the time they're 13. So that's a really interesting take to have it geared toward mothers.
- [06:08]
Molly Defrank
Yeah. I think the impact that moms have on their young kids is really taken for granted. And I think the reason why we miss it a lot of the times is because when those kids are really little, we are just trying to keep our heads above water. And I get it. Like, I got six kids. I mean, those early years are such a blur and you feel like you're in quicksand and you're just trying to like get some air. And you, you really just feel like you're trying to get through the day and get them back to bed. But this is why I wrote the book, is I just wanted to share with moms that all those little in between moments are really redemptive. And those are the building blocks for your son's worldview. Every time you kiss that scraped knee, every time you help him reconcile with a sibling or a friend when he blew it, like, these are the building blocks that he's going to use for the rest of his life. So there's so, so many opportunities for you to really just pour into your son and watch how that matures later. And, yeah, I just want to encourage moms that this is the very fertile ground for exactly what you want for your son.
- [07:10]
Jenny Urch
So one of the things that you wrote about what's going on with my voice, I'm going to have to edit that out. One of the things that you wrote about that really stuck out to me was this mom compliments, thought. And you had this quote from Stephen King when he was six years old. So when you're talking about, like, the little in between moments, the comments that you say, and this is not the only story I've heard like this. So Stephen king at age 6 as a kindergartener says his mom said, she said it was good enough to be in a book. He writes something. She said it's good enough to be in a book. Nothing anyone has said to me since has made me feel any happier.
- [07:49]
Molly Defrank
How sweet was that?
- [07:51]
Jenny Urch
I mean, it's really powerful.
- [07:54]
Molly Defrank
Yeah, so powerful. And I think that's something moms take for granted, is how much influence and power they have to speak life into their voice, to speak encouragement and formation into their hearts and minds. And you know that mom, I'm sure, I'm sure Stephen King's mom didn't think at that moment in time, like, this is going to change the trajectory of his life. She's probably, like, doing dishes and all stressed about whatever else, and she's like, that's actually really great. Good job, buddy. And look at that. Like, this man who has sold hundreds of millions of books, has remembered that and really treasured it in his heart. And I would just love to encourage. I would love to encourage moms that they have that kind of sway and influence in the hearts and minds of their young boys. So don't take that lightly.
- [08:40]
Jenny Urch
There's another story. I had this man on name Chef Nathan Lippy, and he is the chef for Blackstone. Those big. Do you guys have one? If you have that many kids, you Might have one, but it's like this big griddle thing.
- [08:50]
Molly Defrank
Yeah, yeah.
- [08:51]
Jenny Urch
So you can make like, 1,000 pancakes at the same time or a bunch of hamburgers. And he's there. I mean, he does a lot for them, but he's their chef and all sorts of things. And he told me that when he was 8. So similar age in this birth to 10 range that you're talking about in this book. He liked to cook, and no one in his family cooked. And one day his mom was off running errands, and he was like, I'm gonna make, like, homemade ravioli. And so he watched all these cooking shows, and he gets the dough, and he does the well, and he puts the egg in, and he makes the own dough, and then he puts in a filling, and he par. Boils it. I was like, I don't even totally know what that means. But he was 8 years old, and he said his mom came home and the kitchen was a total mess. And so he said. She said, well, you clean up. I'll eat. And that similar to this story with Stephen King where she goes, you made this. How did you make this? One of the best things I've ever eaten. And he said, at that moment, I knew what I would be doing for the rest of my life.
- [09:50]
Molly Defrank
Oh, my gosh. That is so powerful. Like, look at that influence that moms have. I love that. And, you know, just looking at the future, you hold those two things that. Those two stories together, along with what boys are going through now and what the culture is for our boys. They're 2.5 times more likely to be suspended or expelled from school than girls. That 70% of expulsions and suspensions are boys. Twice as many girls as boys are in the top 10% of students, and twice as many boys are in the bottom 10% of students graduating high school. More women earn undergraduate degrees and master's degrees than boys, so they're really falling behind. And that's just academics. You know, if you're talking about mental. Young men are struggling with purposelessness in a way that we have never seen before. You know, they've really lost their way. And so I think it's important for moms to understand both the power and influence they have to speak into the lives of their sons, and also that the stakes are really high. You know, if boys are spending all of this time on passive entertainment, they're missing out on developing the gifts and talents that they have and how they can bless the world with those. You know, I. I think we're living in this culture that says that, you know, masculinity is toxic and the future is female. But if you look at. And for me, that source is the Bible, I see that real masculinity means developing and deploying skills and courage to protect and to provide and to serve other people. And I think there are so many examples of that in the Bible. You see, Noah worked really diligently to. To build an ark and obey God. You see David. And whether you're hearing these as stories or as truly the foundation of your faith, you see a young David who's just all in for God or a cause larger than himself. And you see also a tender side to David. You see most of all, probably at the end of it, Jesus came not to be served, but to serve. So we can glean these examples. And how do we use these in between moments of our busy days to be intentional and crank up that intentionality when what we really are tempted to do is. Is kind of numb out or pass our boys the tablet because it's easier and we're tired and no shame in that. You know, we all get there sometimes. But I wanted to just create a way and some really practical tools for moms to just say, you know what? Not this time. I'm going to take 30 seconds, a minute, five minutes, and just kind of pour into my son, you know, talk.
- [12:15]
Jenny Urch
About these in between moments. One of the things that you talked about is family dinners. And, you know, it is a really tricky thing. But I liked how you wrote about them because you read in all of these books, Molly and I just. I read Leonard Sacks book recently called the Collapse of Parenting, which has been out for a long time. But, you know, he was talking about family dinners and how that they've studied that even, like, the difference between five dinners a week and six dinners a week is substantial. Like, every single dinner you add on is substantial. So I've read this a lot of places, and there's so many studies about it, but in your heart, in your mind, you're kind of like, yeah, right. Has anybody been to my dinner table? You know, it lasts six and a half minutes, and people are arguing and, you know, the food is. I don't know, but you really address that in here.
- [12:58]
Molly Defrank
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. There's a. I think I started the chapter with this quote from a therapist I read in some Harvard publication. And she said, honestly, if more people embraced regular family dinners, I would be out of work. Because so much of what we do in therapy is hashed out over the Dinner table. And I thought that was so powerful. But like you said, moms sometimes think, okay, they picture that family dinner has to look like this Norman Rockwell. Like Pinterest. Perfect. Like, Instagram vision.
- [13:26]
Jenny Urch
We're in France and there's six horses, and it lasts 62 minutes.
- [13:30]
Molly Defrank
Right, exactly.
- [13:31]
Jenny Urch
So I guess the question is, and I love. You're really the only book I've read that addresses this. A lot of them talk about family dinner. Family dinner. But I was like, does my family dinner count if it is short and chaotic?
- [13:42]
Molly Defrank
Yeah. Yes. Okay. So here's what I would say is you're training your kids for how to act at the dinner table. The. So all training is going to start with a really long Runway of, like, fail. You know, you got one kid, like, doing the Macarena on his chair, and you've got another kid, like, you know, making all kinds of weird sounds you don't want to hear at the dinner table. And, you know, another kid's, like, trying to beatbox. And it's just sometimes you, like, look at your spouse, like, is this real life? Like, why is everyone crazy? This is nuts. And, you know, I just would want to encourage moms that that is all of us. Like, everyone has these times, this repetition of dinners that, like, it feels like it's falling apart. This is hard. But that's the training ground that kids are learning. Like, every time, you're correcting them, like, hey, sit down. Hey, guess what? Dinner's not a contact sport. We're not going to do that. Those words don't belong. You know, all of these things that you think you're the only one. No, that's. That's the training ground, girls. Like, that's the arena. You're in it. Good job. Keep going. Maybe you blew it tonight. Maybe you popped a vein in your forehead and had to kind of leave and take a break. And that's okay. Like, you're only failing if it's the last time you ever do it. You know, you get back in there and you try again. And to speak to the kind of cuisine, like, it can be a delicious meal that you spend hours working on. Or it could be, like, you pick up a $10 Costco pizza and a bag of salad, and yet you toss that cereal for dinner. It doesn't really matter. It matters that you've got some food and your people around the table. You know, during baseball season, that's a Spring's really busy sports in our house. We'll grab a blanket and I'll make some like, bean burritos. Wrap them up in foil, and we'll sit there and it's beautiful. And, you know, I had one time we were eating in the car, like, in the parking lot, waiting for a kid to get out of practice fight and packed all the food. And we had this one kid walk up to our window. It's like a classmate, and he's like, hey, guys. And all the kids are like, halfway through burrito, and he's like, hey, wow. And here it kind of smells like. And I'm like, hey, man. You know, we're like eating bean boreas in the car. You just. He's like, no, it smells like the music room at school. I'm like, I don't even know what that means, but we're just trying to get by, just trying to get through the day. But. But, you know, there are going to be so many, like, chaotic and wild moments. And I would even say 8 out of 10 times, it feels like there's not a visible wonderful meal tied in a bow with the kid having some great revelation or great connection. But then. Then there's those two times that you're going to see some fruit because you've been telling the soil and you've been showing up and you've been pulling weeds and you've been teaching your kids what this looks like and what community looks like, and that's the gold.
- [16:16]
Jenny Urch
It's a really big deal, Molly, because I think after reading your part about the dinners and, you know, talking about the family therapist who said, I'd be out of business if people had more family dinners, and you wrote about 60% of families still do not utilize this tool, even despite all the research. And I think the reason is because you think, how could this possibly be doing anything? And yet your perspective in the book is like, no, no. Like, every family's is like this. It is not like a painting. It is not like another country where there's courses and it lasts a really long time. Or Carlos Whitaker wrote in his book about, like, the monks and the Amish, and they're sitting around. For most people, it is this sort of chaotic thing, but it still works. It still works. And you talked about even, like, you could do a breakfast if your schedule is off. It's a great alternative. Maybe lunch works. Maybe afternoon snack is when you're connecting like that, if there's running around in the evening. So try and try a different idea. If you're not around at dinner every single day, you have little hacks for easy dinner ideas. It's really practical.
- [17:17]
Molly Defrank
Good. I'm so glad you found that. Yeah, we. I just think this is such a powerful way. And also sometimes parents will think, gosh, these kids keep fighting, or, you know, I'm losing my temper or whatever. But that's a great opportunity for our kids to learn too. Like, they need to know how to make it right after conflict. And they need to know how to conflict well. And they need to know, hey, when mom loses it or, you know, misses the mark, she apologizes and she starts over and she tries again. Like, these are things that our kids need to see us model and wade through. And, and don't underestimate how powerful that is. Like, that's part of why family dinners are powerful too.
- [17:55]
Jenny Urch
And this is helping them with their sense of belonging. So you're talking about eight things your son needs from you before he turns 10. Mothering boys, the book by Molly Defrank. So we're talking about belonging. Boys today are increasingly lonely.
- [18:08]
Molly Defrank
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- [19:24]
Jenny Urch
Okay, True story.
- [19:26]
Once the temps started rising, I realized I was right. Back in my same old rotation. You know the one that worn out.
- [19:32]
Tank top and those overworked shorts.
- [19:34]
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- [20:39]
Molly Defrank
Sometimes I catch myself staring at my kids and wondering what their futures will look like. And then bam. One of them yells they're starving. And just like that, I'm snapped right back into reality. But seriously, what will their futures look like if I'm not here? It's a hard question, but one we all need to consider.
- [20:56]
Jenny Urch
That's right.
- [20:56]
Molly Defrank
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- [21:48]
Jenny Urch
One of the things that you talked about was that these boys feel like nobody really knows them.
- [21:53]
Molly Defrank
Yes.
- [21:54]
Jenny Urch
Which I sort of felt like that like as as it got older, you're like, you know, you've got the people that know you at school and you've got your family people that know you at church. And it's all like these different context. But one what was the number? Oh, Two thirds, two out of three say, no one really knows me. It's so high.
- [22:11]
Molly Defrank
Yeah, that blew my mind. Two thirds of young men say that, say, no one really knows me. That is so sad because we also know that relationships and quality relationships have this protective power, and that's really at the root of human flourishing. They did this study, the Harvard study, this really long term piece of research they did over many decades, and they wanted to predict the thing, the factor that would really show longevity and health and happiness. And so they studied men when they were in college across all different incomes and education levels. And then they looked at them later after retirement, and they saw that the biggest predictor of longevity and health was not income, genes, iq, cholesterol, or social class. It was quality relationships. That was the best predictor. And I thought that was so mind blowing because that cuts across all income levels, all socioeconomic status, all of it. And that's something that moms really have the power to teach our sons, is how to build and navigate relationships. This is the buffer for our boys to all these mental health struggles. And if we really think about it like, okay, what is getting in the way of our ability to, to teach our sons about relationships? And honestly, today, a lot of that is handing them a device. You know, they're interacting with these instant gratification devices that's just dopamine hit, dopamine hit. And so when we fill their free time with that, they're not running across the street, knocking on the door. You know, they're not playing with boys at the park, getting rejected, getting picked last for the team. They're not having to deal with these things and taking these risks and negotiating relationships in a way that kids have for generations and centuries. So how do we give this back to our sons? And, and that's really what the book is about, is these simple ways in everyday life to kind of give them, to build these things for them. But yeah, what you were talking about was in. In relationship, which is truly one of the eight things that boys are missing today is the sense of belonging. And part of that is teaching our sons, you are valuable, you belong, you have purpose, you're called to a purpose. And, you know, using family dinner. So I go into all that in there.
- [24:20]
Jenny Urch
Yeah, it's a great book I remember reading years and years back. One of my favorite books ever is Kim Jong's Simplicity in Parenting. And I read it like, you know, long before I had a podcast or long. I mean, it was just like a parenting book. I read when our kids were young. And I remember that he said, the number one predictor of success and happiness in life. This is sort of like what I'm talking about. It probably came from that study. I was like, who can claim the number one predictor? And he said, it's your ability to get along with others. And I think, you know, this is what you're talking about here. But, but let's sort of dive a little bit deeper with. If kids are spending three years of their life, one year, 24 hour days by the time they're seven, that's really impacting their ability to get along with others.
- [25:03]
Molly Defrank
Absolutely. And it's fundamentally teaching them that the purpose of life and what they do in their free time is to be passively entertained and that their desire for entertainment needs to be met at all times. And even that word like boredom, I read it was. It's kind of a relatively new word. Like they didn't even have it a couple hundred years ago because people were busy. They were. They had to work and they had to go get their food and they had stuff to do on the land.
- [25:29]
Jenny Urch
And they probably weren't bored because they had an imagination. I think that that's probably a difference too. Right. Which is, I talked to this man recently who said when he was a kid, he grew up in the 60s, and he said he was always imagining things and he actually like avoided people so that he could imagine more. Then he becomes a writer. But he would have had all of this expansive time in the 60s of no screens, so he wouldn't have been bored.
- [25:53]
Molly Defrank
Yeah. And another thing our culture does is we treat boredom like it's a problem for us to solve. When really that's an opportunity for our kids to use their imagination and to use their minds that God gave them to kind of think like, okay, what gifts do I have? What are the possibilities? And then their creativity, that's where it explodes and that's where it expands and that's where they learn. And, you know, I just want to put moms back in the driver's seat here because we're on a bad day, we're sitting there passively just resigned to this idea. Like, yeah, that's how kids grow up these days. Like, my son doesn't have any other hobbies. That's his favorite hobby is playing video games. And I just want to empower moms. Like, no, actually you get to educate your son's desire and you get to educate his sense of right and wrong and even his sense of humor. And that's your job. And so, you know, you don't need to despair when you see that your son is lacking in all these areas. You can actually just roll up your sleeves and take inventory and say, okay, this is something we get to work on. And I see there are a lot of practical ways to do this in the car rides or on a walk. It's actually way simpler than we're making it.
- [27:00]
Jenny Urch
But there cannot be screens involved. And there's no, like, really big book out about it yet. It's starting to get touched on in different books. But this generative AI thing is really, really a big deal. Like I said, I've not been able to talk to anybody who's written like an entire book about artificial generate generating artificial intelligence as it pertains to kids toys and kids devices and AI companions. But if the number one predictor of success and happiness in life is the ability to get along with people and you are interacting with a computer person who, you know, like, the. The whole point of it is that, especially like with the AI companions, it's like it's meant to completely work around you and your personality and what's important to you and. Can you make me laugh? It's wild to me how subversive I don't even know if that's a word could be to a child's relationship. And they're putting all of those algorithms in a lot of kids toys as well.
- [28:03]
Molly Defrank
It is highly disturbing and it is hazardous to their health and to the future, truly. I mean, I was on Instagram. I think there can be redemptive uses of technology. Absolutely. I happen to really enjoy Instagram. I think it connects us to each other in a way. And you can find your niche. You can find great recipes. People are really funny on there.
- [28:23]
Jenny Urch
You're an adult.
- [28:23]
Molly Defrank
I'm an adult. Exactly. But I was scrolling on Instagram a couple of weeks ago and I saw it was wild. It was an ad for kids to talk to, like an AI bot. And it was really like, select. It was. It was for. It was something related to boys. And it's like, do you want to talk to? Like, pick the qualities of the girl that you want to talk to. That's it. Like physical qualities. And then it's like, do you want her to be funny, Sassy, like happy, whatever. And then this bot is going to interact with him and you're like, what are we doing here?
- [28:56]
Jenny Urch
I have to tell you a story.
- [28:57]
Molly Defrank
Tell me.
- [28:58]
Jenny Urch
This is from a really long time ago, like, toward the beginning of our podcast. We have a Family friend who works in the AI space. So he was testing different products. He does stuff for with schools and stuff for adhd. So this is a situation where there are some useful tools. Like you said earlier, if you are nervous about speaking a foreign language in front of your class, you could probably speak your foreign language to the bot and it would correct your pronunciation and you don't have to be embarrassed or something like that. So this is not necessarily all bad. They talk about people in nursing homes and they're lonely, et cetera. But this man, in his testing, was testing AI companions, is married man, has two daughters, two grown daughters. It's all out in the open and he had these different AI girlfriends basically. And he said that it was so. He was so entangled with it that, you know, the, the AI girlfriend sounds how you want her to sound. Ask how your meeting went, never forgets, never gets mad at you. He's always understanding. You could watch a movie and it will chat back and forth with you. You could go out to dinner and it will talk back like, kind of like what you're talking about, right? And he said this was the most a life changing moment for me to hear this story. He said it will take a selfie so you could actually put up a picture. Like I was out to dinner with my girlfriend. It's not a real person, but it has a look, right? And he said he, you know, he showed his daughters and they were like, ew, her outfit's ugly. Or that's inappropriate. They didn't like the outfit. So they were like, well, tell her to change the outfit for the self. And he said he was so emotionally invested that he could not do it. That's how entangled, I mean, they make them human. Like, and this is a grown man who's doing it for work testing. So I, I just can't really even wrap my head around the ramifications of AI companions for anyone, let alone for kids. Knowing that the number one predictor of success and happiness in life is our ability to get along with others.
- [30:52]
Molly Defrank
Oh man, that story is so powerful and it really highlights the need for us to kind of amp up our efforts to raise our kids well in this age. I mean, they need to have some context for that. They're going to see it. So we have to form this worldview of theirs so they know where to put that technology in their mind when they hear about it or when they come across it, which inevitably they will as they get older.
- [31:18]
Jenny Urch
So, yeah, yeah, you did, you said you came across it it was just an ad that came through Y billion something dollar industry. It's like the race to the AI companion situation. And then people I've talked to have said, you know, in other countries, it's starting to be this situation where impossible here too. But like, people are not leaving their room. They'll pee in a litter box. I mean, they don't leave their room because what do they need to? They've got their AI companion and they got their video games. I love what you're putting out because the combination of these books will be a protective measure for your children, for your boys and your girls.
- [31:52]
Molly Defrank
You.
- [31:52]
Jenny Urch
I love that phrase. We have to amp up our efforts, which just means you have to hold the line because we don't know the ramifications yet. And we've already gone down that path. We gave all these kids smartphones without knowing the ramifications and it was horrible for them. So, like, if toys are coming out, they have AI algorithm chips. Don't buy them. No, like, our kids cannot be the experiment. So I love that phrase and that you use. Molly, amp up.
- [32:15]
Molly Defrank
Okay.
- [32:15]
Jenny Urch
One of the things I love in here, that's just worth. I mean, buy the book literally just for page 60, which are the conversation starters. You have a couple fantastic lists in here that are worth their weight in gold. Funny book recommendation. So I do think that the parents, I feel they sometimes are also losing their skills a little bit.
- [32:34]
Molly Defrank
Oh yeah, for sure.
- [32:36]
Jenny Urch
So talk about. Yeah, conversation starters. And like, I feel like I need them also, I'm kind of introverted, so I would be fine to like, not talk all day.
- [32:44]
Molly Defrank
Yes, totally. And I, you know, there's another. Okay, so we'll bring it down to the. There's another study. It says that the basis of all relationships. To go back to what you were talking about before, that human relationships is the most important thing and the basis of that is these serve and return interactions, starting when our kids are really small, where they express either a need or a question or an observation, and the parent responds, and then the kid says something back and the parent responds. And it's kind of like passing a ball back and forth. But that is this foundation to human relationships. So we can start when our kids are really little. And that's why I put those conversation starters in there. I've heard it said that sometimes your child's weakness can become. Or their most annoying trait can become like their greatest asset when they're older. And for me, I was a super chatty kid. I was the youngest of four kids. And my parents were like, okay, like, maybe take a talking break for a little. But I also had a dad who was, like, super conversational, and he always wanted to talk about everything. And I could tell when he thought something was funny. And so that made me want to talk more. And, you know, there's so much power in that. And that's how you feel seen and known. And there's really nothing more powerful than feeling known. And for a parent, for a mom or a dad to show their kid, like, I care about what you're thinking about, like, I want to know what's going on in your head. Like, that is a superpower for your kids that shows them how loved they are. So these conversation starters are really just a jumping off point for parents to kind of have funny exchanges. And I also think humor is so, so powerful. The research shows that to be true. That's why some of those talking points are hopefully kind of funny for you guys. It actually reduces anxiety. It helps kids get through really hard things. Just that little dose of humor. So I've got a chapter in there about how to build that up. But, yeah, you know, I wanted to make it so practical that a parent sitting in the pickup line, if. I don't know if you're one of those parents who get to school, like, 40 minutes before school lets out, like, good for you. I'm more like the five minutes late kind of girl, just because that's how I roll. But. But if you're sitting in that line and you're, like, flipping through, I want you to be able to find something on any page that's like, I can use this right now. And those conversation starters are one of those.
- [34:52]
Jenny Urch
Yeah. And there's pages and pages of them. So that's a wonderful resource in this book. So talking a lot about conversations. And if you feel like your phone has maybe hampered your ability to converse, which sometimes I feel that about myself, then this is gonna be a good jumping off point for you.
- [35:06]
Molly Defrank
Okay, can we just be honest for a second? Health insurance is a mess. I mean, since 2000, wages have gone up 54%. But insurance premiums, they're up 200%. That's four times faster. And even when you have coverage, one in five in network claims still get denied. What even is the point? So if you're out there without health insurance, I see you seriously, you've managed to dodge the premiums, the paperwork, the we regret to inform you letters. That's not lazy. That's savvy. But as a mom, I also know how fast things can go sideways? A car accident, a weird test result. One moment and suddenly you're buried in bills with no way out. That's why I want to tell you about crowd health. It's not insurance, it's something completely different. Crowd health is a community of health conscious people who help each other when it counts. No networks, no premiums, no fine print, just people supporting people. You've made it this far on your own and now here's your off ramp before things go wrong. Get started today for just 99 per month for your first three months by using code 1000hours@joincrowdhealth.com Crowd health is not insurance. Learn more at joincrowdhealth.com that's joincrowdhealth.com and use code 1000hours.
- [36:23]
Jenny Urch
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- [37:39]
Molly Defrank
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- [37:55]
Jenny Urch
Okay, let's talk about what really relates to this audience. And you talked about it quite a bit. The risk, the grit, the getting outside, the boredom, the Kids are on screens. I mean, you have this, I, I quote this statistic so much. The four to seven minutes outside, four to seven hours on screens. So, I mean, we're always talking about. It's like, you know, I think a digital detox for some families is like, so needed, but also like, can we just balance it a little bit better? Yeah, like, if you're not gonna go whole hog and take everything, can we just to seven minutes outside in four to seven hours on its screen is just like, way off.
- [38:31]
Molly Defrank
Oh, yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right. And you know, eight year olds today are spending five and a half hours per day consuming digital entertainment. We need to take charge here. Like I said earlier, you know, we want to develop this real sense of positive masculinity in our kids. And I think that means developing and deploying the skills and courage to protect, provide, and serve others. And when our kids are numbing out on devices for the majority of their free time, they're actually just learning that they're the center of the universe and that the purpose of their life is to be entertained and accommodated. Is that the message we want to send to our boys? I think most parents, I've never met a parent who says, yeah, that's the message I want to send my boys. Parents want that. Like, they want to develop grit and resilience and determination and courage in their boys. It's just, you know, at the end of the day when we're tired and we got to do this over here, we got to take this work email or whatever. Like, it's just here, you know, take this thing. Numb out for a little bit. 40%. I just read this the other day in the New York Times. Jonathan Haidt said this. 40% of 2 year olds have their own iPad, but almost half. I know, stop it. Come on. I know. And like, right now, though, you know, there's a lag between the way we parents and when the research comes out about the impact that's happening. And we saw that when the iPhone came out in 2007, the iPad in 2011, and we watched the next decade, and mental health just, like, plummeted.
- [39:58]
Jenny Urch
Yeah, that's how I feel about these AI companions.
- [40:01]
Molly Defrank
Yeah, you're. You're spot on there.
- [40:03]
Jenny Urch
Avoid, avoid, avoid.
- [40:05]
Molly Defrank
Exactly. So how do we get in front of this? And it's really just going back to basics. It's really just giving our kids the space to be bored and to go outside and, and the tools are so simple. Like, take your kid for a walk. Like my kids Got home from school yesterday. It was beautiful outside. Just, we had 15 minutes before we had an appointment. Let's just go for a walk. And there are so many things that happen over the course of a 15 minute walk. Like, you really, you think, oh, it's like not that big of a deal. It's a huge deal. You're shoulder to shoulder with your kid. You're giving them space to wonder, to notice. Wow, those mountains are really big. Oh my gosh, the grass is green this time of year. What's going on? Who made that? Why is it like this? Look at those birds. That whole, like, you're giving them space to wonder. You're giving them space for the burdens of their hearts to come out. Maybe just a little morsel at a time. You're showing them that mom is always here for you. You know, that I'm interested in you. I love spending time with you. You're showing them so many things in a 15 minute walk around the block. It's like there's so many simple ways to do this for our boys and they need us to do it. The stakes are really high here.
- [41:10]
Jenny Urch
40% have their own iPad. Here's an interesting thing that I've started to talk about with my friends. And I would imagine that you have had similar conversations, especially as your kids get older. Now this is toddlers, but I've got a really good friend and they live in a neighborhood where there's a bunch of houses and a bunch of kids. And what's happening is that as the kids are getting older, it's like slowly but surely less and less of them don't have a phone. And it just becomes like this massive pressure. It's a massive pressure for the kid. And it's a, it's really a massive pressure also for the parent when the kid is like, is totally distraught because at some point they're the only one left. They're the only one left that doesn't have it. And the age is very young, you know, they're 10, they're 11, you know, and it is these huge feelings. Like it reminds me of, like, did I have guest genes in middle school? No, I didn't, but I wish I did and I didn't have them. And you know, but that's such a different thing than having this device that is at your beck and call. So I wonder about this, Molly. This is what I've started to think about. What is our responsibility to the greater world? And I don't know, like, I don't know if Anybody's really talking about that, but, like, I don't know, we march for things, and we have all of these things that we fight for. And it's like, well, what if we fought for the fact that kids shouldn't have to feel all this pressure because every single other parent has gotten the phone? I don't know.
- [42:31]
Molly Defrank
Yeah, you're absolutely right. And for a while, it was like, the situation with the phones, with the smartphones was like, you could opt out if you wanted to. You know, it was maybe like half of kids had phones in junior high, and you could say, we're not going to participate in that. And now this is another Jonathan Haidt observation. He said, now it's so many of the kids, it's the majority of kids, that if you opt out now, the problem is that you're being left out. So parents are truly, like you said in this, in a difficult situation. And it does require a lot of good conversations with your spouse. And like, okay, what do we want to do here? I think that, you know, I have found. I have. My oldest is in high school, my second oldest is in eighth grade. And we've actually found that phones can be very useful for orchestrating rides and things like when to practice over all those things. But they do not need to have access to the Internet. They do not need to have the apps. They do not need social media. If you can just find, you know, one friend that's on the same page, like, that's all you really need, you know, one good friend. And so there are a lot of great resources out there for parents to, like, wait until 8, to kind of start when your kids are young and get a couple parents together and make this pact, like, we're not going to give our kids these smartphones. They've actually studied the most damaging ages for kids to be on social media. And it's something like 11 to 13 for girls is just. It damages them the most. And it makes sense because that's the age that I remember being. That's like, so awkward, and you're getting your first pimples and you're like, wait, I have to go project myself, like this Persona to the world, and I don't even know who I am. Yeah, it's like, let's spare our kids from that sort of pressure and just decide, like, let's. Let's do what's right for our family and our kids. And, you know, there's no reason to not put that off until later, especially while our kids are still learning about what this world is like. And sort of that. Those virtues, you know, we're not talking about virtues. That's sort of the world that's getting lost in all this technology culture is like, building up that virtues in our kids.
- [44:30]
Jenny Urch
And morality 11 to 13, I mean, that's when they're getting their phones. That's what the research shows in terms of average ages. And it is a gift to your own kids, but it is a gift to other kids, too. And I think that's a point that you're allowing someone else's kid not to be the only one.
- [44:46]
Molly Defrank
That's so true. Yeah.
- [44:47]
Jenny Urch
And I think it's something to think about. Okay. Failure in terms of video games is not a big deal, because then you just respawn. I think that's the word. I'm into the video game lingo. You respawn, but you're talking about, like, kids need actual failure. And you told his wonderful story about one of your kids. He wanted to get Simba the lead role in the play. It didn't get Simba.
- [45:09]
Molly Defrank
No, no, didn't get it. And, you know, really kind of fell apart about it. Like, was so hard on himself.
- [45:16]
Jenny Urch
Well, because he got. Well, you have to tell what he got. Not only did he not get Simba, but he did get. It's like he got Mufasa.
- [45:23]
Molly Defrank
It was like hyena number three, I think, was the equivalent. I think it was a different. It was like there were different roles and there were different plays, but it was the Hyena number three equivalent here. And it just crushed his little spirit. And as a mom, you know, you want to cheer your kid up, and so you come alongside him and you're like, hey, man, you're an incredible kid. Like, you bring so much to this world, and you've got all these talents, talents, and stick with it and, you know, bring your best motivational talk to this kid. And. And in this interaction, man, it was just falling flat. Like, he was just kind of going back to the same, like, narratives of, like, why am in the work?
- [45:59]
Jenny Urch
He's like, but I'm a hyena number three. Nothing you say will change that.
- [46:06]
Molly Defrank
Yeah, I know. And. And so it was really actually deflating because my efforts to kind of make the situation better just appeared to totally fall flat. That was very discouraging for me because it looked like we were making no progress at all. And it looked like my efforts were totally in vain. And he was a mess. And I'm like, I kind of had to call my husband. Like, hey, man, when are you getting home? Like, I'm kind of, I need to tap out. This is exhausting. But actually fast forward a couple years and that kid actually just was Charlie and Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory after being the best hyena he could be. So I don't think that needs to be the end of every story like this. But the moral and what he got to learn was keep going. If you're hyena number three, if that's your role, like, be the best hyena number three you can be and work hard and show up with a great attitude. And these lessons are not going to be received by our kids in an instant. They're not. And truly, as parents, we're at a disadvantaged parenting now today also, because we are also fooled into believing that we need this instant gratification, right? So we're used to this scrolling tapping too. Like, we get our emails wherever we go. We can watch these funny reels anytime we want to. We can numb out. And then when we turn and try to parent our kids through this hard real life thing, we don't see immediate success and we're discouraged. But we need to like, focus on what is unseen and we need to kind of stay in this thing for the long haul because really, you know, diamonds are made after like thousands of years of pressure. And the really good stuff, it doesn't grow overnight.
- [47:44]
Jenny Urch
I got chills. I didn't know that he was Charlie in the Chocolate Factory. Like, ah. And so, you know, he didn't quit. And I like this idea. You, you bring this up in the book A Mothering Boys about reading about the failures of others. And actually I had read in that. I didn't read it. I. My midwife sent me this. It was like, like a quiz, kind of like, are you. It was like the Rich Habits parents Test. A quiz. I, I don't know, I just butchered that. But like, what are the habits of successful people? Was basically the, the quiz and are you doing these things in your home? There was only 40 things and none of them had to do with GPA or what was your SAT score. It was none of that. It was all relational and good habits. And One of the 40 things was, I require my child to read biographies of successful people. It's life changing. Actually. I, I would never, I would never have been that type of person. But that was a life changing thing. In our family. We started to read biographies. And you talk in this book about reading about the failures of others. You gave some really cool examples, Michael. Jordan didn't even make the varsity team as a sophomore.
- [48:50]
Molly Defrank
Isn't that awesome? These stories? Yeah, I think it's other people's story. Stories of failure and determination and grit and getting back up again. It's just so inspiring and it shows our kids. Like, what a boring story. If you just succeeded all the way and never, never hit the ground and got back up. Like, that's actually not even true for anyone. And that's what separates them. No, that's really what separates the mediocre from the greats. Or they just, they get back up and keep going. I don't even know if you caught. Did you watch the college basketball?
- [49:23]
Jenny Urch
Oh, yeah, yeah. The ncaa. Yes.
- [49:25]
Molly Defrank
Oh, my gosh. I can't. Bracket. I'm just going through. I'm looking for every opportunity to share this. I picked Florida, but one of my favorite things about that last game was that they were behind like 10 points in the middle. And I'm what, what are they going to do here? And they just came back. They never quit.
- [49:43]
Jenny Urch
I completely thought they were going to lose.
- [49:45]
Molly Defrank
I totally did.
- [49:45]
Jenny Urch
100%. I was like, my daughter went to bed, she was like, florida's done. It's over, the game's over. And then at the very end, they won. And then there was like that weird thing where they were going to try and shoot and then he dropped the ball and I still don't quite understand what happened. And there was no shot at the end. My husband was like, it was a defense and he was going to double dribble. I was like, I don't get it. Just looked like he dropped it. Yeah, but to come from behind, let 10, 11 points and everyone's counted you out, you. And then you had picked Florida.
- [50:13]
Molly Defrank
Yeah, I know. I picked Florida because I don't know anything about basketball. I also don't understand what happened at the end and I don't really understand the positions or any of that. But my, my father in law hosted this bracket and I really wanted to win it. And the day we had to turn it in, my husband was at the post office and he comes home, he's like, yeah, some older man was in there telling everyone very loudly like, pick Florida, take them to the end. And I thought that was so funny that I'm like, oh, I'll pick Florida to take him. And that's cool that that guy was sharing that. And so I did and it brought me victory.
- [50:42]
Jenny Urch
And all along you're just thinking, there's no way they're going to win. Then they come Back.
- [50:47]
Molly Defrank
It was so good.
- [50:47]
Jenny Urch
Yeah. So your whole point is? My whole point is kids are not experiencing failure. For the most part.
- [50:53]
Molly Defrank
They're not. And there are opportunities to point out grit and perseverance and determination every day all around us. So, like how you showed your kids these biographies of great people and how, you know, watching the game, watching Florida come back and watching, you know, kids sports, and you point out these really positive character traits and this determination, these things that you want to build up in your kids, just recognize them, you know, these sideways compliments too. And when you see one of these traits in your kids throughout the day or throughout the week and you're sitting at family dinner or you're on the car ride, sideways compliment that, meaning turn to your spouse in earshot and say, you know what I noticed in our kid? This kid yesterday, no one wanted to work, no one wanted to finish their chores. This kid got up, did his chores, and then offered to do a chore for a sibling. And it was. Blew me away. And it was a kind of selflessness and sacrifice and love that I was really blown away by. And that's powerful. The other kids here, and they're like, yeah, that actually was cool, you know, and we can notice these things in our kids and these are the nutrients that really feed their hearts and minds. And it's powerful.
- [52:04]
Jenny Urch
Wow. So many, so many, so many great ideas. In this book you talk, you have a whole chapter about getting outside the. So obviously that's a wonderful fit for this audience. Our boys mental health can suffer when they spend too much time indoors. You talk about boredom. I want to hit this because this is so cool. Okay. There's this man named Dr. Chris Winter, who you talk about in this book, who was my first podcast guest.
- [52:27]
Molly Defrank
No way.
- [52:28]
Jenny Urch
The only reason I have a podcast is because of him, because he reached out and was like, will you help me launch my book? And it's a wonderful book. And so he talks about sleep disorders and how those are showing up. Can you just talk about, you know, one of the things you talked about is rest. And you know how that helps with emotional durability. It's something that people bring up here and there, but like, it really matters. And screens can really pull away from getting adequate rest.
- [52:53]
Molly Defrank
Yes, absolutely. That is something I did not appreciate until I took all of my kids devices away and did this detox. We like removed it all. And I thought that the negative effects of my kids screen time was really just relegated to right after they were done. And they were dopamine crashing I thought that was the extent of the impact. But what I learned through Dr. Winter and all these other studies is that it's actually impacting them around the clock. It's eroding their sleep quality. It's putting their brains into fight or flight mode. Especially if they're playing kind of close to bedtime. They've got all these like cortisol and adrenaline pumping through their brains and it makes it harder to fall asleep, it makes it harder to get quality sleep, even just the light that the screen emits. And when they don't have high quality sleep, that impacts them during the day. And so we're starting to see things like, oh, it's probably adhd we think, you know, that's getting diagnosed so much these days. And really what's wild is that sometimes if you just address the screen time issues and get your, their kids outside and exercising and moving and interacting with people, that can be kind of this antidote to that. So don't underestimate that. How the power of getting enough sleep and getting outside, it's wild. Like what the research shows about vitamin D and our immune systems being boosted and our mental health just is so much better when we just spend some time outside. It's almost like we were wired to be out there, wired to be with people.
- [54:24]
Jenny Urch
Almost like God made it that way, right?
- [54:27]
Molly Defrank
Exactly.
- [54:28]
Jenny Urch
We've been watching this documentary series called the Riot in the Dance and it's on Angel Studios and possibly part of it's on Amazon Prime. It is by N.D. wilson and his uncle and other people who wrote like wonderful books, some of my favorite books. And it is a phenomenal nature documentary. It's one of the best I've ever seen. And it just is like this reminder, like there are so many cool things out there that we're missing. So yeah, it's almost like we are meant to be out there with people.
- [54:58]
Molly Defrank
Yeah, exactly. And that's such a good point because there is, you know, we want to expand our kids capacity for wonder. That's one of the, one of the chapters in the book is about that. And if we're not exposing them to these things in nature and to our world, then they're going to miss that and they're going to miss truly appreciating their place in the world compared to how big the world is. That's another thing. Getting your kids outside shows them like, wow, that mountain's really huge. I can't even scale that. It really exhausts me. And it really puts into scale like who we are in the universe, how small we are and how many people there are and what is our place in it. And it kind of helps get them thinking about all these questions. But that's right. I actually want to check that show out. We'll do Planet Earth sometimes.
- [55:41]
Jenny Urch
Yeah. So this is, this one is, I think they call it the. The first nature documentary that glorifies God. It's so good. Oh my gosh, so good.
- [55:52]
Molly Defrank
What's it called again?
- [55:53]
Jenny Urch
It's called the Riot and the Dance.
- [55:56]
Molly Defrank
Okay.
- [55:57]
Jenny Urch
And to watch it like this episode's gonna come out after Easter when your book launches. But like to what? I mean, just even in that week that like Holy Week, it is so good. And there's a smaller episodes and then a couple longer documentaries. I started with this one called Water and just about how like this is what he says, like the water that Jesus was baptized in still exists somewhere. Does that just like blow your mind?
- [56:20]
Molly Defrank
I was like, that's amazing.
- [56:22]
Jenny Urch
Yeah, because how God made the water cycle. I was like, that is so, so cool. I mean, talk about wonder. Yeah, that's what the documentary is about. It's about the wonder of God's imagination and creativity. And he made it for our enjoyment and his glory. And anyway, so you talk then about wonder. You can't overload your calendars and create fast paced days. We have to have some downtime for us in order to experience this wonder. And you wrote, that's a good reminder. Your kid has a.0296% chance of becoming a professional athlete.
- [56:57]
Molly Defrank
It's true. Yeah.
- [56:58]
Jenny Urch
Because youth sports, they're fun, but they can definitely crowd out the wonder.
- [57:02]
Molly Defrank
Oh yeah, that's so true. And I happen to be a competitive person. It's like the worst combination. I'm very highly competitive and have no athleticism to match it. It's so sad. Isn't that so sad? So watching my kids play sports, I can get like real excited. But I constantly have to check myself with that, like, hey, what is the point of this? You know, I want, I actually really care a lot more about my kids character. I care about their sportsmanship. I care about how they talk to their coach and how they listen to their coach. How do they respect authority and go with the call and how do they treat their opponent? And sometimes we can kind of get lost in that. But, but yeah, there was another, there was a translation of the Bible. I'll have to tell you what verse it was, but it said it was actually in the message translation. Sometimes I like cross reference and it Said one of the verses was, be content with second place. And I put that in the book somewhere. And I was like, oh, dang, that's super convicting to me, because it helps me to just care about the right things and remind my kids to care about the right things, you know, to just like, where are we putting our value? Where is our identity from? So all of those things we get to instill in our kids when they're young. And that's so cool. Like, even if the house is a mess, even if you get your second round of stomach flu, and even if the dinner table is a mess and it's loud, it's like, you're still doing really good work in that. Or you can be doing really good work in that. Just be a little intentional and watch what happens over time.
- [58:29]
Jenny Urch
I love the example you gave, Molly, because there's that verse that says, and I don't know if this was the same passage with the message, but it says, I've learned to be content whatever the circumstances. And you hear that, right? And so you're like, yes, we should be more content. But when you take a very specific thing like, I've learned to be content when I got second place, I've learned to be content with Hyena number three, you know, or whatever the situation is, to make it specific like, that is actually very, very, very powerful. So what a book, Molly. You are really impacting parents in such a positive way to hold the line, to amp up our efforts. Amp up our efforts. I really get inspired by this podcast called Raising Boys and Girls. And I recently read a book of theirs about knowing if your kid is on track, something like that. And it just was a reminder, like, this is a training ground. Go help your kids, amp up your efforts. Train your kids. Teach them about the world. I think it's just so easy to run out of time for it. Yeah, run out of time for it. And I just am so grateful for what you've put out into the world, these wonderful books. I know everyone will be so thankful to have heard from you and to read what you've written. Thank you, Molly, for being here.
- [59:39]
Molly Defrank
Thank you so much, Jenny. Thanks for having me.
- [59:44]
Trey Tucker
Are you hungry for guidance about mindset, relationships, health, finances, career decisions, and dealing with your past? I'm Trey Tucker, licensed therapist and speaker and host of Rugged, a podcast where I help young men of and women navigate life's challenges and find solutions to help them live lives of service and meaning. In this podcast, you'll learn mindset strategies to harness your thoughts and emotions in ways that help you achieve your goals. I bring a blend of straight talk and empathy, and I'm open to addressing any topic and treating it and the people connected to it with respect and curiosity. Come join us. We have a space for you. Search for Rugged with Trey Tucker wherever you listen to podcasts and make sure to hit the Follow button so new weekly episodes will be delivered straight to your personal podcast feed. My hope is that this podcast will leave you feeling encouraged and empowered to take charge of your life and close the gap between who you are and who you want to be.
- [60:46]
Dr. Edie Wadsworth
Hi dear one. I'm Dr. Edie Wadsworth, your new favorite Christian life coach, and I want to invite you to the House of Joy podcast. If you're a woman over 40 or the daughter of one who wants to build a positive mindset, healthier habits and thriving relationships, this is the show for you. We talk about personal growth, faith resilience, and creating a life you're obsessed with. So if you're tired of feeling stuck and ready to step into more joy and purpose, come join us. Listen now wherever you get your podcast.