1KHO 481: When We Rob Childhood, We Also Steal Their Future | Mike McLeod, GrowNOW ADHD

Summary

Podcast Summary: The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Episode: 1KHO 481: When We Rob Childhood, We Also Steal Their Future
Host/Author: That Sounds Fun Network
Guest: Mike McLeod, GrowNOW ADHD
Release Date: May 15, 2025

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Introduction to the Episode

In this compelling episode of The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast, host Gwen engages in a profound discussion with Mike McLeod, founder of GrowNOW ADHD. They delve into the critical issue of how excessive screen time and the erosion of outdoor play are detrimental to childhood development and the future of our youth.

The Impact of Screen Time on Childhood Development

Mike McLeod passionately argues that the rampant use of screens among children is a significant contributor to the current youth mental health crisis. He emphasizes that screens lead to depression, dependency, and dormancy (the "3 Ds"), undermining essential social and cognitive skills.

Mike McLeod [10:05]: "It's unbelievable. We are experiencing the worst youth mental health crisis in history."

He highlights how screen addiction hampers children's ability to develop resilience and people skills, which are crucial for their independence and success in adulthood.

Summer: Lost Opportunities for Growth

Traditionally, summer has been a time for children to unwind, play, and develop organically. However, McLeod points out that today's summer for many children is fraught with stress due to continued academic pressures and screen time.

Gwen [06:38]: "It used to be like the relief... but so many parents are dreading summer now."

The conversation underscores the shift from playful summers to structured, screen-heavy experiences, which stifles children's natural development and exacerbates behavioral issues.

The Importance of Outdoor Play and Community

Outdoor play is presented as the antidote to the negative effects of screen time. McLeod advocates for children to spend more time in nature, engaging in unstructured play that fosters creativity, physical health, and social interaction.

Mike McLeod [13:02]: "Play is the original executive functioning training program. It's play, it's outdoor play, it's being in nature."

He stresses the necessity of community involvement, encouraging parents to organize neighborhood activities and reduce reliance on expensive screen-based camps.

Executive Functioning and Its Role in Future Success

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around executive functioning—the set of cognitive skills that include self-awareness, self-regulation, and self-motivation. McLeod argues that these skills are best developed through independent play and real-world interactions rather than through screens or academic tasks.

Mike McLeod [34:38]: "Self-awareness, self-regulation, self-motivation, and self-evaluation... they start with the word self, meaning that the individual does it independently."

He warns that without these skills, even high academic achievers may struggle with real-life challenges, such as forming meaningful relationships and maintaining employment.

Resilience and People Skills

Resilience, defined as the ability to persevere through boredom and adversity, is identified as one of the most critical skills for children. McLeod emphasizes that children need to learn how to cope with discomfort and develop problem-solving abilities without immediate gratification from screens.

Mike McLeod [16:26]: "If you have a child that cannot persevere through boredom... send them outside. That's it."

He also highlights the importance of people skills, which are cultivated through face-to-face interactions and cannot be effectively developed through virtual environments.

Practical Steps for Parents

McLeod offers actionable advice for parents aiming to reduce their children's screen time and enhance their development:

1. Eliminate Screens: Remove devices like iPads and gaming consoles from the household to minimize distractions and dependency.

2. Encourage Outdoor Activities: Promote activities such as biking, swimming, and unstructured play that engage children physically and socially.

3. Foster Community Engagement: Organize community events and neighborhood gatherings to build a supportive network for both parents and children.

4. Embrace Boredom: Allow children to experience boredom as a catalyst for creativity and self-discovery, rather than rushing to provide instant entertainment.

5. Develop Executive Functioning Skills: Focus on building self-regulation and independence through everyday activities and responsibilities.

Mike McLeod [28:55]: "If your child comes to you and says, 'I'm bored,' then that means you as the parent are doing something right."

Conclusions and Takeaways

The episode concludes with a strong call to action for parents to reassess their approach to parenting in the digital age. McLeod and Gwen agree that by prioritizing outdoor play, reducing screen time, and fostering community connections, parents can significantly improve their children's mental health and future prospects.

Gwen [60:15]: "If you can just elevate play, if you can just leave space for boredom... that's all we need now."

McLeod reinforces the message that returning to nature-focused parenting is not only beneficial but essential for combating the ongoing youth mental health crisis.

Mike McLeod [59:30]: "A Thousand Hours Outside is the cure to the youth mental health crisis."

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Mike McLeod [10:05]: "It's unbelievable. We are experiencing the worst youth mental health crisis in history."

• Gwen [06:38]: "It used to be like the relief... but so many parents are dreading summer now."

• Mike McLeod [13:02]: "Play is the original executive functioning training program. It's play, it's outdoor play, it's being in nature."

• Mike McLeod [34:38]: "Self-awareness, self-regulation, self-motivation, and self-evaluation... they start with the word self, meaning that the individual does it independently."

• Mike McLeod [16:26]: "If you have a child that cannot persevere through boredom... send them outside. That's it."

• Mike McLeod [28:55]: "If your child comes to you and says, 'I'm bored,' then that means you as the parent are doing something right."

• Gwen [60:15]: "If you can just elevate play, if you can just leave space for boredom... that's all we need now."

• Mike McLeod [59:30]: "A Thousand Hours Outside is the cure to the youth mental health crisis."

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Final Thoughts

This episode serves as a rallying cry for parents to reclaim their children's childhood from the clutches of excessive screen time and structured academic pressures. By fostering environments that prioritize outdoor play, community interaction, and the development of executive functioning skills, parents can ensure their children grow into resilient, socially adept, and independent adults.

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Note: This summary omits advertisements, intros, outros, and other non-content sections to focus solely on the substantive discussions between Gwen and Mike McLeod.

Transcript

[Gwen]

Hello, friends, and welcome back.

[Mike McLeod]

I have something special to share with.

[Gwen]

You today, and I hope you'll take.

[Mike McLeod]

A minute to hear. In less than a week, on May 20, my brand new book launches. It is called Homeschooling. You're doing it right just by doing it. Now, I know not everyone who listens homeschools that we are a community who cares deeply about kids, about slowing down, about making space for real connection. And that's what this book is really about. It speaks directly to homeschool families. But more than that, it's about trusting your gut as a parent, letting go of the pressure to perform, and remembering that childhood doesn't need to be optimized.

[Gwen]

It needs to be cherished. If you have found encouragement here through this podcast or the 1000 Hours Outside.

[Mike McLeod]

Movement, I would be so grateful if you'd consider buying the book. Pre orders and first week sales are what keeps books like this going. They help spread the message further. And honestly, they're what publishers look at when deciding if there's room for another book. So if the work we've done here has helped you, even in a small way, picking up a copy is a huge way to show support and maybe consider grabbing one for a friend or your homeschool group, if that fits. And if you do get the book.

[Gwen]

Or if you love the show, leaving.

[Mike McLeod]

A review is one of the simplest, most impactful things you can do.

[Gwen]

It really does help people discover the.

[Mike McLeod]

Message, and it means more than you know. Okay, thanks for letting me share all that.

[Gwen]

I'm so grateful for each of you, truly.

[Mike McLeod]

Now, let's get into today's wonderful episode with Mike McLeod.

[Unknown]

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[Gwen]

We're back. These are like people's favorite things ever.

[Unknown]

So I'm so excited I cannot even begin to tell you. I literally listen to this podcast at the gym every single day. I plug it in yesterday with the. The doctor Freed, right?

[Gwen]

Yes. His is good.

[Unknown]

Oh my gosh, is this good going on with Dr. Fog this, Dr. Fogg that, like, oh, just all like, oh my gosh, that guy was hitting on it. It's just so good. And then, like, I love. One of my favorite ones is like, I'm like, I am so obsessed with this podcast. I love you and John Acuff.

[Gwen]

I love Johnny Cuff.

[Unknown]

That's, like, one of my favorite ones. And then you had his brother on, literally. I'll sit in a sauna and I'll listen to, like, an entire episode. Like, I love this podcast. More, More. I'm, like, the biggest fan of this podcast in the world.

[Gwen]

Well, what's the coolest thing is that people are such a big fan of yours. I was looking just yesterday. I'm putting out a graphic. I made it. I haven't put it out yet, but I was going through. Kim Jong Payne has a thing that's like, you got to have fresh infusions of hope and imagination into your family. I think it's really true. We're in this day and age where we're inundated by screens. It's super stressful. There's all things going on, and I believe that you got to have those fresh infusions. And Even, like, that Dr. Richard Freed, he's talking about how the computers never sleep.

[Unknown]

Yep.

[Gwen]

They're always trying to take your time. They're always trying to convince you. And so I made this post of. These are some of the most influential books. For me, these were Infusions of Hope. So I put, like. And these are podcast ones you could listen to that go along with the books. Well, there was only four authors that had been on, and there was a space for a fifth one. So I looked back over this past year, you know, this past five months, and I was like, who's been listened to the most? And it's yours.

[Unknown]

Really? It's yours. Oh, my gosh. Wow. All right. Yeah.

[Gwen]

So you're in the graphic. It's coming out later today, but, you know, it's yours. And I think it's a lot. It's like the information that you have that you give out that people desperately need. It's your personality, it's your vitality. There's a lot to it. It's the way you distill the information down. So I just want to say thanks for coming on so much.

[Unknown]

You are literally doing God's work. It's like, this podcast is the most important thing for parents, period. End of story. The A Thousand Hours Mission. Like I said, the Thousand Hours app should be on the phone when you buy the phone. Like, it is like, everything. Like, everything that you are doing with this mission is the cure to this youth mental health crisis. That's it. There's no magic button. It is the thousand hours outside mission will finally get kids to stop killing themselves. That's it.

[Gwen]

It solves it all.

[Unknown]

That's it. That's literally it.

[Gwen]

So simple. But it does. It solves it.

[Unknown]

Yep. The school refusal, the anxiety, the diagnosis rates that like everything, the self harm, the rising, like inpatient programs, everything, like all the parents like going nuts. Like, how do I parent? What do I do? Send your kid outside. And that's it. That's the answer to everything.

[Gwen]

And what's interesting is it's an answer for today. It's going to make your today better. And that's what my book, until the Streetlights come On. It's about how it makes today better, but it also prepares them for tomorrow, which is a really crucial component that you talk about. It's not just about how parents are stressed out today and kids are stressed out today. It's also the fact that kids are going to college and they are really strugg with that transition. So it's today problems and it's tomorrow problems. And I always say this solves a lot of the modern day parenting ones. And it works, it works for your 3 year old as much as it works for your 13 year old as much as it works for your 17 year old. So talking about getting outside, Mike, you are the founder of Grow Now ADHD. Is that what you would say?

[Unknown]

Yeah. Grow NowADHD. Absolutely.

[Gwen]

You guys have your own podcast, which is wonderful. It's called the ADHD Guys Podcast.

[Unknown]

It's the ADHD parenting podcast. We. Yeah.

[Gwen]

Did it used to be called guys?

[Unknown]

Yeah, it used to be called the ADHD guys. And then everyone thought that we only talk about boys with adhd.

[Gwen]

Okay.

[Unknown]

Meanwhile, it's everyone with adhd. So we, we changed it because it covers both boys and girls.

[Gwen]

Okay, That's a good switch. I think you capture everyone. It's a phenomenal podcast, meaning it's a top ranked podcast. And people, you know, if they haven't heard your voice and how easy you are to listen to and how encouraging you are, people have to check that out. You also speak. You speak all over the place. I see it all the time. This school, that school, this teacher, that parent, people are posting feedback after feedback. You offer courses, so you offer an immense amount of support to today's family. And I asked you if you would graciously come back because we're heading into the summer and you've talked about how in the Past summer used to be like the relief.

[Unknown]

Oh, yeah.

[Gwen]

Like the excitement. What, what does it hold? It used to be like, oh, it's going to be relaxing and stress free and you get to stop battling your kids about their homework and, you know, the morning routine and getting them on the bus in time. And yet so many parents are dreading summer. Can you talk about, well, just how unfortunate that is?

[Unknown]

It is unbelievably unfortunate. And this is not normal. This is what we have to understand is so much of what we're doing with our kids, youth, schooling, education, we have to stop accepting the status quo and go back to what actually works. So we have to remember what was it like when we were kids, Parents would look forward to summer. You know, no more having to, you know, morning routines, evening routines, homework. It was something they look forward to. And it wasn't all these expensive camps you had to send your child to. It was just, you know, my child's going to go outside, play, figure things out, go to the pool, constantly swim, interact with peers. It wasn't a stressful thing where parents had to start planning in November, December for what they're going to start doing in the summertime. And it was a laid back, relaxed thing because a big part of it was we used to have a general sense of community where people would go out and play and interact with their neighbors and parents knew their neighbors. So so much of what we're doing is with the rise of screens, the decline of play, you know, all the stranger danger of outside. So much that parents are dealing with is sort of what I refer to as the secrets of the walls of the home. Everybody tends to have, you know, all of these things that happen at home, like with ADHD and executive dysfunction. Now it's, oh, my child is a terror at home, and I see all these behaviors, but at school they're okay. That's what you're seeing with the majority of things. Yes, many kids with ADHD struggle at school, but home is where you see the majority of the behaviors. And a lot of it is because the child knows that what happens at home stays at home. And there's nobody to hold me accountable besides mom, dad and siblings who I'm around all of the time. We need a sense of community. So one of the biggest problems with parenting today is parents are just by themselves. There's no other people for your child to get to know and interact with. And that's part of what made summer great. Running to get the ice cream in with all your friends, going to the community pool, riding bikes until the streetlights come on. All of these amazing things that made summer so great. Now we have kids on screens all day, socializing on video games on screens all night. The fights are continuing even though school's not in session anymore. And if you're not sending them to a camp, you're more stressed than you were in the school year. And with the lack of executive functioning development, you dealt with the same morning routine, evening routine, homework, fights, the that you did in September, all the way until May and June. Things never got better. It was the same fights every day. Because executive functioning is not developing as it should.

[Gwen]

The ramifications are really far reaching. And I think that when you've got a two year old or a three year old and you're trying to decide, am I going to give them an iPad or not? And you're trying to decide what you're going to do in your home for screens and those types of things, your kids, six, seven, what are we doing for video games? What are we doing for cell phone? No one really thinks like, if I do this, I'm going to hate the summers.

[Unknown]

That's exactly it.

[Gwen]

It's really sad. And I think it's so important that you're talking about it because the screen manufacturers aren't like, hey, if you give your child this iPad in four years when you're so excited about their summer, you're going to really dread it or you're going to feel like you can't do it except for paying for this super expensive summer camp.

[Unknown]

And they are expensive and they're getting more expensive. And summer camps are starting to market themselves as this is going to be the only screen experience your child is ever going to have in their entire lives. That's becoming their tagline. How sad is that? That you send your child to this sleepaway camp where they'll be outdoors, they'll play temporarily, but once they leave this camp, their entire life is going to be filled with screens. And the fact that they're able to market themselves that way, what does that say about us as a society that we are now raising kids via screen? And no wonder. We are experiencing the worst youth mental health crisis in history. And we refuse to accept the facts of how terrible this youth mental health crisis is because parents are doing what I refer to as waving the white flag to big tech. They are just giving up. And they are starting to believe in all of these various cognitive distortions of, oh, if I take screens away, he's going to lose all his Friends, he's going to be left out. He's going to make fun of, he's not going to gain the skills for the future. If I restrict now, he'll overindulge later. It's going to cause trauma. He's going to hate me. He's, he's not going to have, you know, the necessary experiences of life in this tech free world. All kids are screen addicted. It's just what they do. Parents will tell themselves anything to not admit that there is a youth mental health crisis, that their screen is addicted and to avoid the withdrawal behaviors because they realize, hey, I'm stuck in a hole right now. My child is screen addicted. They're not developing skills. What do I do? And we're ignoring the fact that this is a massive youth mental health crisis and we're doing nothing about it because we don't want to deal with the behaviors, be the bad guy and watch our kids withdraw over 1, 2, 3 weeks.

[Gwen]

It's such twisted messaging. And that's why what you do is so important. Because the messaging that should be going out is, I don't want my child to take their own life. I don't want my child to be living in my basement when they're 26 playing video games. I don't want my child to have a chat girlfriend instead of a real girlfriend. It's so backwards. And these are people that care about their kids. So it's just wild how the messaging has become, I don't want to deal with their withdrawal as opposed to like, I want them to have a good summer. I want us to have a good summer as a family. It's like we're focusing on the wrong things and the things that we're not focusing on really matter a lot.

[Unknown]

That's exactly it. We're giving kids the world on a screen, but taking away the world they actually need, that's the biggest thing. So if we're not allowing them to experience play, everyone. So, you know, come and train us on executive functioning. What's the best executive functioning curriculum? What are the best practical tools? Well, let's be honest. Play is the original executive functioning training program. It's play, it's outdoor play. It's being in nature. It's not being on screen.

[Gwen]

Can you train us, Mike? Train us?

[Unknown]

Yeah, there you go. Exactly. You got it. But this is the biggest thing. What silly questions.

[Gwen]

Guess what? Kids already know how to do it.

[Unknown]

Exactly.

[Gwen]

They come pre trained. They already are trained. We're the ones who would need to be trained. Honestly, the Parent loses the ability to play. But the kids already have it.

[Unknown]

That's exactly it. And what we're doing as parents because we've turned parenting into such a science and we learn this is such an American thing. Like so many other things, countries just, you know, let kids go on errands with their parents and their family. Life does not revolve around the kids and toys and competing and standardized testing and test scores and things like that. You know, what we are doing here is we're looking at parenting as a science and everything is based on test scores and milestones and all of these things. And by constantly, like everyone's algorithm is just filled with constant parenting advice. And with this horrible non scientific and non peer reviewed parenting advice out there, we're engineering this childhood that is screen filled, safe, sterile. And we're surprised that kids can't cope with real life.

[Gwen]

I mean, we can see the result. And that's the part to me that's wild. Like the results are there. So all you have to do is look and you're like, well, we need to do something different. So let's really focus on summer. I'm excited about summer. I think summer is wonderful. There's that exhale that you have and there's less pressure. And I remember the first time, Mike, that I was at someone's house and they had a summer packet and it was huge. I never seen anything like it before. So they had kids that were in elementary school and like eight, eight year old boys or something. I was like, what do you. What's on your desk? It was the middle of the summer. What's on the kitchen table? And it was like this packet, it was like inches thick. They were like, that's their summer work packet.

[Unknown]

And I was like, oh my goodness.

[Gwen]

What, what is that? Why do we do that?

[Unknown]

Because we are obsessed with test scores. We're obsessed with academic. Every single time I'm on Instagram or social media and I see some sort of advertising about the summer slide. Oh, if you don't get your child tutoring over the summer or have them do this academic work, they're going to lose this academic material. That's nonsense. That is absolute nonsense. You want your child to do better in school next year? Okay. Eliminate screens for the entire summer and you're going to have an incredible upcoming school year. So all of this nonsense about the summer slide. I am very anti any academic work over the summer. I'm very anti homework during the school year. We have to be more honest about what actually helps Kids. So don't be spending your money on all of these therapies, all of these interventions, all of these different programs. We have to look at what is actually going to help your child long term. Okay, yes, when they get older, they're going to live in a tech filled world. But we've been telling kids for decades that they need to learn how to code and they need to learn all of these technology skills and be proficient in all these programs. Well, guess what? Now AI is doing those things for free. So what is the skill of the future? People skills. So if you're listening to this episode right now, ask yourself, does my child have people skills? And the only way to get people skills is to interact face to face. That's how friends are made. Friends are made face to face, not in Fortnite lobbies.

[Gwen]

That's right.

[Unknown]

There we go.

[Gwen]

Drop the mic. You say high school to college is one of the largest jumps an individual will take. Are they ready? It's not about their grades, it's about the number of experiences they had in their childhood. And then you even talk about year over year that like freshman year sometimes can be okay because there's a lot of structures in place for the freshman in college. But then by the time they're hitting sophomore, a lot those are taken away and kids start to struggle. So talking about the summer slide, which I'm like, have it be a real slide, one of those really, really tall ones that they've gotten rid of, the metal ones that are like really thin on the side, you feel like you might fall off.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Gwen]

Let's talk about three skills that you could work on this summer to help kids develop in a way that's going to help them with their lifelong life. What about resilience?

[Unknown]

So we hear this word, resilience and we instantly think of like, you know, Rocky Balboa and you know, Muhammad Ali and all these famous, really tough people for today's youth and this horrible youth mental health crisis we're in. When we're talking about resilience, it is as simple as the resiliency to persevere through boredom. It is as simple as that. If you have a child that cannot persevere through boredom, and if they have adhd, that means they don't have an attention deficit disorder, they have an attention seeking disorder. And they're going to look for attention via screenshots. And if screens are not available to them because you as the parent did the right thing and followed the clinical recommendations of eliminating screens because your child has this Neurodiverse brain. Then they're gonna look via conflict, looking for arguing and negotiating. And the only way to improve that is to get them out of the house. If they're stuck within the walls of the home, they're going to look for screens or conflict. When we get them out and about, that's when we see them flourish and, and gain the skills. When kids are home, when they are stuck within the walls of the home, all of their skills and all of their talents lay dormant. And they just sit there and you don't know, is this child a musician? Is he an artist? Is he an incredible athlete? I've worked with so many parents that are surprised that their kids are actually really athletic and can do really incredible things and climb trees and play soccer and play football and all of these things. But they have no idea because he's on Fortnite, Roblox and Minecraft all day and they have no idea what this child is fully capable of once parents step back and kids step up. So in terms of this summer, you know, right now, I don't know when this is going to launch, but in terms of overall, when parents hear this, right now, preparing for summer, take that Xbox, that PlayStation, that Switch, sell them back to GameStop, get them out of the house, hide those things immediately. If you have an iPad just sitting around, there is no reason to have those things, period. And all of this ridiculous ed tech that we are working tirelessly to end forever. With the help of my friend Emily Churkin, the screen time consultant, we're going to be launching a national Opt out day. We're going to send out to parents this summer to opt out of edtech. You know, this is your chance to have a screen free. Give your kid a 90s summer out and about. If you really need to find a way to put an Apple airtag on them, get an Apple watch, do what you gotta do and send them out into the world to go explore, ride bikes and be with friends. Bring community back to parenting. Let's use social media for what it was meant to do, which is bringing people together. Get on your, you know, your township Facebook group, your school district Facebook group and just type in, hey, I am sick and tired of all these screens, the dysregulation they're causing and the developmental delay of all these important skills. I want to give my child a screen free summer. Who's with me? Start to get a band of parents together and all of them will say, hey, we're going to get our kids together in the neighborhood. Every single day from this time to this time. We can hire a college student to be with them if you really need to do whatever you got to do. But why send them to this super expensive camp? Just get people in your community together and get the kids out riding bikes, swimming and having a real summer.

[Mike McLeod]

Sometimes I catch myself staring at my kids and wondering what their futures will look like. And then bam. One of them yells they're starving. And just like that, I'm snapped right back into reality. But seriously, what will their futures look like if I'm not here? It's a hard question, but one we all need to consider.

[Gwen]

That's right.

[Mike McLeod]

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[Gwen]

Okay, true story. Once the temps started rising, I realized I was right back in my same old rotation. You know the one that worn out tank top and those overworked shorts. So I finally gave my daily uniform a little upgrade with Quince. Let me tell you, this brand gets it.

[Mike McLeod]

Quince has pieces that are simple, elevated.

[Gwen]

And somehow make you feel totally put together without even trying. I've been absolutely loving the 100 European linen shorts and dress I got, which.

[Mike McLeod]

I paired up with their super cute Italian leather platform sandals for some of.

[Gwen]

My speaking engagements this spring. It is all beautiful, breathable and built for real life. And here's the best part.

[Mike McLeod]

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[Gwen]

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[Mike McLeod]

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[Gwen]

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[Mike McLeod]

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[Gwen]

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[Mike McLeod]

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[Gwen]

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[Mike McLeod]

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[Gwen]

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[Mike McLeod]

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[Gwen]

Thank you.

[Mike McLeod]

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[Gwen]

I talked to these guys, Ned and Will and they were talking about how like. So Jonathan Height talks about, I guess a screen based childhood. Like we went from play based to screen based, but they say no, there was something in between. It's a performance based. That actually was what came before the screen base. So like maybe burn the summer packet. Yeah, yeah, make a bonfire and burn that summer packet. So the things that you're talking about that kids could learn over the summer and that you could enjoy them while they're learning these things are people skills. Resilience, you say? Resilience is one of the most powerful tools an individual can have. The ability to bounce back from misfortune, change and negative emotions. And that's the thing, like we all have that. We all have misfortune and we have change and we have negative emotions. Emotions come and go. So kids need to be able to have resilience and not be dependent on a screen or conflict to regulate themselves. So resilience people skills, and then this executive functioning, which was what you talk about so much. You say they're too reliant, they're too reliant on their parents and they don't really grasp that they're behind their peers in these different areas of life. They don't have the self awareness of that. So if you have a summer that's focused on being resilient, if you have a summer that's focused on people skills, a summer that's focused on executive functioning, that's going to really change the game for your kid, I think in the summer, but also moving forward in life.

[Unknown]

And this is exactly what we're doing. So parents are far too involved in their child's life outside of school. They're no longer just a parent, they're the homework secretary, the morning secretary, the evening secretary. Then at school, we have seen these IEP and 504 documents absolutely explode in size. And we are giving kids accommodations, we're giving them leeway. So many public schools now don't even fail kids anymore. Kids don't even have to show up to class. They can show up one day and then skip the rest of the semester and still pass and still graduate. We're starting to see graduates of schools graduate, go off to college, realize they're completely illiterate, and then go back and sue their public school district and say, hey, why'd you graduate? Me? Why do I have a high school diploma when I'm completely illiterate? That's starting to happen and that's going to continue to happen because of how much we are over accommodating. Because just like with the ADHD brain that is time blind stuck in the moment, we as parents are getting stuck in the how do I make life as easy and as smooth and as regulating to my child as possible right now if we're not allowing our child to struggle, deal with boredom, go outside, experience nature, deal with conflict, do hard things, have chores, have responsibility, have accountability. We're not preparing them for life in any way, shape or form. And there's a reason why failure to launch is becoming a very popular term. Less people are dating society in general in terms of this generation of youth with their social skills and the things that they're capable of doing. College dropout rates are skyrocketing. It's becoming a very serious problem because of how much we are shielding our, our kids. So when we focus on executive functioning and the first is self awareness. So self awareness is the first executive skill to develop when they're young children, when they're young babies, they start to become self aware and realize, hey, when I cry, what happens? Mom comes and takes care of me and hey, when I smile in mom's face or dad's face, they smile back. But over time it becomes one of the most delayed. Especially when they live a screen filled life and they don't realize how far behind their peers are. So they're not fully aware. They may be 10, but they're really five in terms of their resiliency and their emotional regulation skills. So what they need is a strong parent. I'm sorry, parents. This social media trend of low demand parenting does not work and it does not create kids who are capable. It creates kids who are insecure about, unsure of themselves, lack social skills and lack resiliency. They need accountability. They need individuals in their lives outside of the family, coaches, peers, other parents, other individuals, a community, a sense of self. And they need real skills outside of technology.

[Gwen]

Okay, so we're heading into the summer, maybe set that summer packet aside, put it in the bonfire and we're going to work on people skills, we're going to work on resiliency, we're going to work on executive function. I just want to camp on board. Boredom just a little bit longer because you talk about how boredom is a gift and this is actually what happens. So your kids may play, but there's going to be downtime and if you're not doing the expensive camp, there's going to be 500 times where they say I'm bored, I'm bored, I'm bored. Because they are stimulation seeking and they're attention seeking. So what should the parent do? How should they respond to the kid who is whining, whining, whining, I'm bored, I'm bored, I'm bored.

[Unknown]

So this is. I'm so glad you asked this because parents are being taught on social media that they have to respond to every single complaint and every single worry and every single conflict of their child, which creates a co dependency and overdependency that is very unhealthy. So when your child comes to you and says I'm bored, then that means you're doing something right, period. You created an environment where they don't get instant stimulation and instant gratification.

[Gwen]

All right, say it one more time. That's so good.

[Unknown]

Yep. So if your child comes to you and says I'm bored, that means you as the parent are doing something right. That means that you limited technology, you remove technology, you made your house no longer a casino. It's basically as simple as that. So your house is no longer filled with slot machines and blackjack tables and all of those things. You got rid of all those incredibly boring things and you create an environment where your child has to sit with themselves. You know, there's a reason why all of the executive functioning skills start with the word self. You know, people think of executive functioning as time management in organization with messy backpacks, messy folders. That is outdated information, period. It is self awareness, self regulation, self motivation and self evaluation. And they start with the word self, meaning that the individual does it independently, not with the help of another person. It's not co regulation, it's self regulation. We've gotten too caught up with. Oh, I needed, I need to use co regulation techniques. It's such a trendy topic. How about not co regulation? How about your child learns to calm down on their own without the need of, with the help of an adult. That's what they truly need. You can't have an 18 year old graduate high school and not know how to calm themselves down without doom scrolling on a phone. So we have to go back to self regulation. And we see such immense levels of parenting burnout right now because nothing is self anymore for the kids. The parents are the prefrontal cortex, the frontal lobe, the executive functioning system for their entire family, especially their kids. And the reason is because the child doesn't have self skills. Everything is co, co, co co regulation, co motivation, co awareness. We need self. The child has to do those things themselves. And the only way to gain self skills is to be bored and develop those things yourself away from parents. So if your child comes to you and says, I'm bored, you can say, that's good, go do something about it. You can say, that's too bad, go deal with it. Go do it. You say whatever you want to say. You can walk away. You can say nothing. You can say, okay, cool, I have a list of chores for you to do. You can open the door and say, go ahead, get out there. You know, the world's waiting for you, the weather's, it's a beautiful day today. Do whatever you want to do, but never ever get caught into an argument. And never for a millisecond think that you as the parent are responsible for your child's entertainment. You are a parent. Not a stand up comedian, not a clown. You are the parent. In no way, shape or form are you responsible for your child to be entertained.

[Gwen]

It's so good a child being. This is what you say a child being able to play independently is a crucial skill for life. Do not take that lightly. And that's the problem. The summer packet and the screens are taking that lightly.

[Unknown]

That's exactly it. I could not agree more. So I totally agree. Take that summer packet and burn it. Go on your township Facebook page. Get the parents together. Go do a bonfire of summer packets. Like literally, go do it. Use it to start that fire and roast the marshmallows. I think that's totally fine.

[Gwen]

That's how you can make your friends community. Is that the summer packet bonfire burning?

[Unknown]

Do it. What's the school going to do about it?

[Gwen]

Yeah, well, they're passing kids anyway, so that's the whole point. It's like, if they're passing kids no matter what, you clearly don't have to do the summer packet. And that is to me, in encroaching, it's. I've read it before. It's like, why are the tentacles so far into the family home? Like, you already have the kids for seven hours a day. That's enough. That's enough. It's 35 hours a week. That's enough. You don't get to come in and take the afternoon and also come in and take the summer. That's my opinion.

[Unknown]

Yeah. And here's another hard truth that parents need to hear, is that IQ and grades are absolutely meaningless unless your child has executive functioning period. So they can have a 4.0. They could be the valedictorian, they could be gifted, twice exceptional, all of those things. If they don't have executive functioning skills, that IQ is completely meaningless. There's so many gifted schools, twice exceptional schools I partner with, you know, in this area and across the country. And these are the kids that hack the school computer. They're playing Minecraft all day in class and no one says anything. And they still get eight pluses on every single test because they can, you know, they just memorize things and they can spit out facts. Okay, but can they shower without, you know, can they know when it's time to shower? Do they know how to make a friend, keep a friend? Can they even make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich? Can they find their way home from a certain place? There's a very, very big difference between IQ and being able to memorize nonsense facts that are even more meaningless in today's world of AI. But can they be a part of a team? So, like, we're, we're in a world now where it doesn't matter if you have a degree from Harvard and perfect grade scores, all of those things. If you can't be part of a team, if your co workers don't like you, if you can't be flexible, calm, cool, collected in the workplace, someone who presents themselves well and interacts with people well, you're not going to get a job. No one's going to, no one's going to ask you for your.

[Gwen]

And there's no iep.

[Unknown]

No IEP gone. Yeah. On the, on these college campuses, these colleges market themselves as, oh, we provide a lot of supports and there's the writing center and this and that. That is pure marketing. When your child shows up to the college campus, it is sink or swim. And they're going to be in that dorm on their phone until their eyes hurt watching TikTok, not going to classify. And you're going to be wasting all of that tuition money and student loans because they're on their phone because you know, you want to know if your child will be successful in college. You want to know if they can go to college and be successful. Look no further than what experiences they had 1st grade to 12th grade. If they woke up, went to school, came home, stayed home, played on screens, all their friends were screen based, then that's what's going to happen in college. Parents seem to hold onto this thread of hope that as soon as their child gets a high school diploma, all of a sudden they're just going to be ready for college and they're going to be able to go and make friends and be independent and have all these life skills. It's not going to happen. They're going to sit in the dorms, never check their school email, never set office hours and just be on screens all day long. And it's going to create a lot of anxiety. Every minute spent in the virtual world creates compounding anxiety. In the real world you talked about.

[Gwen]

The parents are driving to the campus to take their cell phone, they're driving to the campus to take their computer. Then the kid is going to go have to do their work in the computer lab. I mean, it's that bad. If you think about it in terms of college, where you're paying to be there, how much different is it? Even when you go out, like you said, into the workforce, I mean, there is no boss that's going to be like, I've got an IEP for your kid. Here's your 504 before planned. You're 26 years old. No, it's like you're gonna work or you're not gonna work, you're gonna get along. You're not gonna. You're gonna contribute or you're not gonna contribute or you're not gonna have a job. It sounds harsh to a degree, but it's like this is the end goal is that your child can thrive and become an adult and be out into the world and enjoy their life. Enjoy the life they have. So this is what summer should be about. Your people skills, your resilience, boredom. You said one of the greatest gifts a parent can give a child is the ability to persevere through boredom. Stop responding to them when they say they're bored. Let them be bored. Be proud of yourself that they're bored. All of these things. Working on these things in the summer of 2025. No school packets, no screens. Don't have to do the expensive camps. Okay, AI.

[Mike McLeod]

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[Gwen]

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[Mike McLeod]

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[Gwen]

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[Gwen]

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[Gwen]

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[Gwen]

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[Unknown]

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[Gwen]

See for yourself at botoxcosmetic.com AI okay, you talk about this a lot and I feel like everybody should be talking about this. I don't see enough talking about this. I don't hear enough. I don't see enough. I don't see the books. What are the social ramifications for kids who are already maybe a little awkward or otherwise vulnerable? What are the ramifications with this ability to create an emotional bond with a.

[Unknown]

Machine so it's more of inexperienced killer? This is the biggest thing that parents don't. You know, We've gotten stuck in this mindset that kids only learn via lecture and via words, we've totally moved, moved past this idea of experiences. Kids need experiences. Like when you work with as many different students as I do all across the country and internationally, you can pick up very quickly on the child who has significant screen time limits, who's involved in their local YMCA and after school clubs, and has lots of friends and has traveled the world and done various things versus the kid who goes to school, goes home, goes to the basement, is on screens all day until 11pm it's all about experiences. Experiences build the brain. The brain develops over the first 30 years of life. And it's not getting good grades and studying and doing those things that builds myelination and builds the wiring of the brain. It's how many different experiences can you have, how much can you overcome challenge? Can you overcome boredom? And how many various different people can you meet of different backgrounds and different ideas? And how many different people can you interact with? And really what we're doing is one of the simplest ways to describe what you just described is we are giving kids a childhood of the path of least resistance. That's the biggest thing. So every time we as adults give kids the path of least resistance, we are stealing their childhood away from them. And when we really think about it, we're stealing their future. Because the day is going to come where they're going to turn 18, 19 years old and we're not going to be able to baby them anymore. We're going to all of a sudden expect this jump in independence, positivity and success. But their entire childhood was the path of least resistance. It was screens, it was arguing, it was IEPs, 504s which have their time in place, of course, but too big of them. So it's providing too much accommodations and finding these chatbots and chatgpt and all of these different things, shielding them from the experiences of trying new things. So that's the name of the game. How many varied experiences does your child have on a week to week basis? If every day looks the same, that is the biggest red flag you can have.

[Gwen]

As a parent, I think it's interesting you talk about how other people can pick up on who's had screen time limits. And I post about that. Kim Jong Payne says no screen and low screen kids are enduringly popular. Yep, popular is a word that is a tricky word because people have really bad connotations with popularity and maybe, you know, it takes them back to middle school, but it's not, it's about what you say. It's about people responding to you and you've got stuff to talk about and you can listen and you can sit through maybe a longer conversation and not have to look at your phone, that type of thing. So people do get really frustrated with that sentiment that this does help your social skills. But it does, it's just true. Like, you're right. You have to stop ignoring the facts and the neuroscience. Like, this is just truth. And if it feels offensive or you feel like you're struggling, like I had someone who commented, they were really mad that I had that up there.

[Unknown]

Yeah. And this is how bad things have gotten is that when you post real scientific facts and real true, harsh truths about screens, you get all of these hate messages, really? And these negative messages from parents when it's so obvious those parents sending those negative messages are just the ones that have been fed some bad advice or are just waving the white flag to Big Tech. And they have a screen addicted kid at home. They feel lost, they feel discouraged, and all they can do is kind of reach out and fight back against all of these things to make themselves feel better. But this is what's happening now is like, we want to ignore the facts. You can look at all of the data of this youth mental health, crisis of self harm, suicide, school avoidance, diagnoses, rates, medication rates, everything and everything coincides perfectly with the rise of screens and the decline of play. And Big Tech's marketing has been so unbelievably perfect to a T. They have convinced parents that screens make kids what I refer to as the three S's, social, smart and safe. So when kids are on screens, they're making friends, they're gaining things to talk about. Oh, he's playing Fortnite and they're talking, they're on discord, they're on FaceTime. It's a social experience. It's helping him. He's so socially awkward. But these screens are giving him a leeway into relationships. And being on screens more educates him. Oh, he builds wonderful things in Minecraft. He's gaining executive functioning skills by building in Minecraft and he's learning by watching YouTube. And oh, if I give him screens, he's indoors, he's safe. I have an eye on him. The outdoors is too dangerous. But all of the data tells us that screens actually make kids. The three Ds depressed, dependent and dormant. And that's exactly it. Depressed, dependent and dormant. And those three things, when you have a childhood filled with those 3Ds, especially being dormant and being dependent on an adult to basically be Your executive functioning. There's no chance of you being able to make friends, keep friends, get a job, keep a job. We're setting them up for failure by not giving them a childhood.

[Gwen]

It's so important. I love everything you post. I went through some of the comments and some of the things that you posted and the comments were pretty eye opening. This one person was talking about how they teach in a school system, secondary school, so in a high school and it said that the school pays for a soci, a socio emotional chatbot for students to use. They said that it's pushed daily through the morning announcements for students to confide in the chat bottom when they're having a tough day.

[Unknown]

What schools are doing with technology is absolutely criminal. And I think you have done an incredible job of spreading the word about homeschooling. Like your new book coming out, Homeschooling, big shout out to you and the amazing work that you produce.

[Gwen]

And what a title. Can we just say the title? It's just called Homeschooling because it wasn't taken.

[Unknown]

There you go.

[Gwen]

Kind of like that.

[Unknown]

I'm excited about it, but it's great. And you know, for so many people that don't understand homeschool, a lot of people think homeschool has a lot of negative connotations to it. But now with what public schools are looking like, with all of the technology and refusing to put brakes on it, refusing to put delays on it, and just telling parents, oh, your child has to learn to not go on YouTube, learn to not go on Roblox in class.

[Gwen]

And that's what that Dr. Richard Fried said. He said it's ridiculous because they're doing it as a. It's a psychological manipulation. So how does this 9 year old learn how to combat a psychological manipulation from companies that are making billions of dollars and have these neuroscientists on their teams?

[Unknown]

That's exactly it. This past school year I observed over 400 classes. I went in to observe the teacher, I sat in the back of the class. I did it over 400 times. And every single time there was at least one, two, three students on Roblox, Fortnite, Minecraft. They're bullying each other on Google Docs, they're chatting on Google Docs, all of these things. It is horrible. The fact of the matter is big tech, their marketing has been so precise and so perfect. We are giving kids screens before their brains are ready for it. There's a reason why 18 year olds, you know, kids 18 and below, can't drink, drive and vote because their brains aren't ready for it.

[Gwen]

Yeah. Can't go to the casino.

[Unknown]

Can't go to the casino. There's a reason why. And it's the exact same thing with screenshots. We have to get the screens out of the schools or else things are just going to get worse and worse and worse. We've seen all the videos of, you know, the teacher takes this student's phone away or their switch away and that teacher gets attacked or something happens to them. All of this rise of screens at school and the laptops at school perfectly coincide with all of the depression at school, the need for more socio emotional learning. Schools are floundering, teachers are floundering, and all of these adults making these decisions with nothing but dollar signs in mind. We are hurting our most vulnerable population, which is our kids. And probably the most vulnerable population is our neurodiverse population because they are the marginalized community that does not have what all the other marginalized communities have, which is the ability to self advocate kids with adhd. And our neurodiverse youth don't have the ability to say, hey, stop giving me all these screens. Hey, this makes my brain feel bad. Why are you giving me all these things? They don't have the self awareness and the self advocacy skills to say, I don't like how you're making me feel. I don't like these decisions you're giving me. I don't like this technology you're placing in front of me. And we are absolutely. This is why I'm so passionate about ADHD and our neurodiverse population because they are the ones that are being hurt. And big tech sees ADHD diagnoses rates and they see dollar signs.

[Gwen]

Yeah, I think the fact that you've been in 400 classrooms is huge because you can have a general idea of what this might be like for kids. But until you've actually seen it or can talk to someone who's seen it, I think we kind of have our heads in the sand. I was blown away when I read this book, American Girls by Nancy Jo Sales, which is a decade old and she was talking about the kids are watching pornography in class and like this is actually what's going on in. So for you to be able to say I've been there and this is what it's like. Can you imagine, I mean, can you imagine being 10 years old and trying to learn and the kid next to you is playing Roblox, like what are you supposed to do? I have a hard time being off my phone when the person next to me is on their phone, it's awkward. It's such an awful situation to put kids in. And if the school is pushing. So, like sel. Social. Emo social. I can't ever say it. Whatever. Emotional learning. I don't remember that from when I taught, and I wasn't that all that long ago. And now it's like that's built into the dates because the kids aren't playing. But to know that they're pushing it off onto chat bots that actually sound like people, that's the other thing. Like, as a parent, if your kid is being sort of suggested, if they have a bad day to talk to a computer about it, like, does the parent know that that actually can create an emotional bond? It's not a person, it's a computer, but it sounds like a person. And they have inflection. I mean, it is pretty wild what's out there. And so the fact that it's already in the schools, it's huge. Is like, do we know. Does anybody know what's going on out there? And we should know. I think the homeschooling thing is interesting. It does have a lot of negative connotations, and partly because it was illegal. I mean, I think that's one of the biggest reasons why it has negative connotations is because it was illegal for a period of time. And so people did it illegally. And they would not let their kids have experiences because it was illegal. So they would pull out of the driveway in their van and then the kids would duck down and they would pull back in to the garage and they wouldn't come outside for the whole day.

[Unknown]

Wow.

[Gwen]

Because they were doing something illegal. So the negative ramifications is not because of the homeschooling per se. It's because of the way that people had to do it in this underground way that stole experiences. And it's changed. It's not the same thing anymore. It is not bad. It is legal. And so there are so many ways as a homeschooling family that you can. If your kid has a bad day, that you don't have to push him to a confide in a chatbot.

[Unknown]

This is exactly it. And we just need to understand the facts. Big Tech doesn't care. They are profiting too much. They don't care that kids are going to grow up without the skills they need to be independent, positive and successful. Schools don't care. You know, so many schools are just all about their standardized test scores and their pensions and all those sorts of things. So schools don't care. This is 100% falling on the parents. If this youth mental health crisis is going to stop, it is going to be the parents. It's going to be the parents to say, look, enough is enough. And this is so much a herd mentality. Most parents give their kids a phone because of the social pressures of other people having a phone. So if you have a child who doesn't have adhd, who is mature and all of those things, and you say, okay, he's ready for a phone, okay, that seems innocent, but we have to understand that when you give your kid a phone, you are feeding into that argument for that kid down the street who says, you have to get me a phone, because everyone else has one. So you think it's innocent giving your kids screens just to help pass the time that is affecting the whole area. Kind of like the whole idea of, you know, when you give, you know, giving antibiotics, how it affects everybody and, you know, changes things. It's the same thing with screens. You giving your child every single thing that as soon as that system comes out, you buy that. As soon as that new game comes out, you buy that. As soon as that new phone comes out, you buy that. Yeah, you're negatively impacting your kid. Your kid may be mature enough to handle that level of screens if they're neurotypical, but it's affecting the kids down the street because, number one, there's less kids outside because the kid down the street has, you know, an arcade in his house. Every single person is playing a role in this. Parents need to understand we have to stop waving the white flag to big tech. Stop giving kids screens. It's not making them social, it's not making them safe. All the data is telling us the opposite. If we want our kids to be happy, feel good, and be healthy, they have to go outside, they have to have real friends, and they have to have real experiences. So all of these phones that are being marketed as social and safe are doing the opposite.

[Gwen]

And so interesting because you had posted about how Sweden did a switch back to talking about ed tech in school. So Sweden, they did it. People adopted it everywhere. And that's why, to me, I'm like, with the AI, we have to be so out in front of it because this has been disastrous. No one was out in front of it. And we're still trying to roll it back, and nobody can really roll it back. It's a disaster. And then really, schools are already using chatbots to be talking to Students who have a hard day. Why no wait.

[Unknown]

Insane.

[Gwen]

You have to wait. You have to like, give it some time and see what's going on. Because you talk about how technology is not there to regulate themselves or to focus on child safety, but Sweden made the switch. They go to ed tech. They go from books to ed tech. And oh my goodness, have I heard people say our Kids School is 100 computer based, no textbooks. I mean there is so much research about writing things down. I have paper notes every time I'm writing on them. All of that, the research is clear. But they are, yes, they are switching back. Sweden is switching back. They are spending 104 million euros. It just even think about that. Think about the waste. The waste that happens when we jump out over our skis.

[Unknown]

Unbelievable. Do you know what the best response is? Like, you know what's better than a chat bot? Recess. Going outside. Why does recess end in elementary school? Why are we cutting it back? Why are like. Like one of the most fascinating things from one of your previous podcasts I listened to, someone brought up how kids. There's a whole epidemic now of kids just falling out of their chairs in class. Do you remember someone brought that up in a previous episode?

[Gwen]

They don't have core strength.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I heard that. And I literally stopped in my tracks. I was like, oh my God, that makes so much sense. Because kids are spending their entire lives dormant. They're not moving. They're in front of a screen. They don't have the core strength and kids are just flopping out of their chairs. And I started asking more teachers about that and that is so incredibly true. Think about what we are doing to our kids. This doesn't make any sense. Parents need to understand 100% that when we cut back recess, when we cut back outdoor time, when we give a kid a screen, we are stealing their future. There's no more excuses anymore. There's no more. This is just what kids do. Now at the end of the day, screen filled parenting is permissive parenting. We never want to parent blame. There's never been a harder time to be a parent. I totally get it. But when we fill our child's life with screens, we are setting them up to not have the skills they need to be independent, positive and successful. What's the one cold, hard truth about parenting that we all have seemed forgotten about? Every single parent has kids. For your kid to have a greater life than you did before them and for them to be successful when you're long and gone, because parents don't live Forever. So when you are no longer there to assist them, do they have the skills to be independent, positive and successful? And so much of the wiring of the brain happens from 0 to 18, 0 to 19. If their entire childhood is spent in the virtual world, they're not going to have, have real world skills. It's as simple as that.

[Gwen]

It's interesting because people talk about this all the time. It is a very, very hard time to be a parent. But what is interesting is I think in some ways, if you can get just a few things right, you are going to give your kids so many advantages. And that didn't used to be the case. I think you did used to have to be kind of really on top of it. You know, like everyone was going to go to college and you, you know, there was like this competitive edge. But today we were talking about kids that there's so many, like the mental health crisis like you talk about. But like, if they're depressed and they can't, they have so much anxiety and they don't have good social skills and these things, if you can just hold out on the screens.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gwen]

If you can just elevate play, if you can just leave space for boredom. That's why the book is called Homeschooling. You're doing it right just by doing it, because what's happening is you. You're pulling yourself out of a system that we see is causing kids to really struggle. So just by pulling yourself out of that, like before you choose curriculum and before you choose your educational philosophy, you've pulled out of the school, that's giving your kid a chatbot to talk to when they've had a tough day. You're pulling out of a screen, all the textbooks are on the computer. You're pulling yourself out of that. So in some ways it's like, gosh, you know, there's four or five things. If you can get, get these four or five things that, that's all we need now. Four or five components and your kid is going to really be set ahead.

[Unknown]

That was so beautifully said. This is exactly why this, this 1000 hours outside message is the most important thing for parents to hear around the world, period. This is the message. A Thousand Hours outside is the cure to the youth mental health crisis. This is the most important podcast in the world right now, period. This is the solution. This is the medicine. This is what we need. This is exactly it. And think about that. That should be one of the biggest breath of fresh air to parents to hear.

[Gwen]

Yes.

[Unknown]

That's the Point, that's the point.

[Gwen]

In this day and age, because things are so bad, it's not going to take that much for you to get your kid so many steps ahead. Because they're joyous, because they love life, because they know how to make relationships, because they can have conversations, because they're fine to sit with them themselves and be bored for a little bit. It doesn't take much. It really actually just takes pulling things out. It's cheaper. I think it's an encouraging message.

[Unknown]

Yeah. So not giving your child screens, not giving them a phone gives them an enormous advantage over their peers, gives them an enormous advantage in life. If they don't get their first smartphone until they get their high school diploma, maybe the day they graduate, that's when they get their first phone. That's setting them up for success. And parents will say, oh, if he's 18 and gets his first phone and I restrict it his entire life, then he'll overindulge. And once he gets it. No, that's the opposite. You are giving an 18 year old a phone whose brain is stimulated by sports and exercise and face to face interaction and being outside and art and music and all of those things. So when they get a phone, it's not, not their entire world. It's not so stimulating to them anymore. That's the biggest thing. So that's the name of the game. Let's make parenting simpler. You don't have to be your child's homework secretary. You don't have to save them from every possible struggle. Let's stop making parenting. This competition between this house and this house down the street and this parent and this parent. Let's start to bring community back. Let's start to get our kids outdoors, interacting, playing, being kids again and not worry so much about every little aspect of their lives. If parenting is simpler, childhood is simpler. Parenting burnout and kids not having the skills they need are completely correlated together. Parents are burnt out because they're doing too much. The name of the game is do less. And you thought that putting your kid in front of a screen was giving you a break. It's actually making things worse because it is so dysregulating them. Five minutes on a screen hardwires their brain towards instant gratification. And then it is so much harder to do anything that is non screen based. One of the big things I hear from parents now is that when my kid doesn't have a screen, he'll just follow me around the house, he'll chase me around the house trying to get my attention. Arguing, screaming, fighting. He'll trash the house. He'll knock doors down, he'll bang on the door. Sometimes I have to lock myself in the bathroom. This isn't normal. This shouldn't be happening. The reason that's happening is because your child's brain is hardwired towards instant gratification of screens. So five minutes on a screen on a Saturday is going to get you dysregulated on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, sometimes. It's not always immediate. So if the screen's not in front of them and they're not getting a dopamine tsunami from a screen, then they're going to get it through conflict, through feeling like they have their parents in the palm of their hands. So if you have a child who chases you around the house, says, I'm bored, you know, sometimes physically attacks you or has property destruction, that is a child that cannot have one second of screens in their lives. That is a kid that needs the medicine of outdoor play, that needs the medicine of nature, that needs the medicine of other people in their lives besides mom and dad.

[Gwen]

Mike, what an honor. A favorite, favorite, favorite guest by far. We're going to change things. Things change. The summer of 2025.

[Unknown]

That's right.

[Gwen]

This is the one where you really want to think, what is the summer for? It's going to be for resilience. It's going to be for people skills. It's going to be for executive function. It's going to be for boredom. Thank you. Thank you. I cannot wait till we can talk again. Thank you so much for being here.

[Unknown]

Thank you for having me Keep doing this amazing work. I love this podcast. I love your message. You are spreading the word that every single parent needs to hear my favorite podcast in the entire world. Thank you for everything you're doing.