1KHO 493: Make a Commitment Not to Be a Helicopter Parent | Mark Gerson, God Was Right

Summary

Podcast Summary: The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Episode: 1KHO 493: Make a Commitment Not to Be a Helicopter Parent | Mark Gerson, God Was Right
Release Date: June 2, 2025
Host: Jenny Yurch
Guest: Mark Gerson, Author of God Was Right

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Introduction

In Episode 493 of The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast, host Jenny Yurch engages in a profound dialogue with Mark Gerson, the author of the insightful book God Was Right. This episode delves into the intersection of biblical wisdom and modern social science, particularly focusing on parenting styles, the pervasive nature of fear, and the invaluable role of grandparents in child development.

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Mark Gerson’s Background and Book Overview (01:07 – 03:22)

Mark Gerson introduces himself as an entrepreneur based in New York City, married to Rabbi Erica, and father of four. He founded the Gerson Lammer Group (GLG) in 1998 and later established 3i Members. Beyond his business ventures, Mark co-founded and chairs two charities: United Hatzalah of Israel and African Mission Healthcare. Additionally, he leads Torah Tuesdays through Eagle's Wings, a parachurch ministry focused on deep Torah study.

His book, God Was Right, scheduled for release on June 3rd, intertwines biblical teachings with contemporary social science, aiming to validate timeless spiritual truths through modern research.

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The Power of Fear: Biblical and Scientific Perspectives (04:57 – 08:35)

Mark Gerson emphasizes that one of the most recurrent instructions in the Bible is "Do not fear," appearing 85 times (04:57). He explains that the Bible addresses actions and traits that humans are naturally inclined to exhibit or avoid. For instance, while loving one’s children is inherent, fearing excessively is not, hence the repeated admonitions against fear.

Quote:
Mark Gerson: “The Bible tells us 85 times, do not fear.”

Gerson connects this biblical insight to modern issues, citing state-level policies that stem from fear, such as restrictions on children’s independence in public libraries. He illustrates how fear can lead to overprotective measures that hinder rather than help, aligning with social science findings on the detrimental effects of fear on growth and independence.

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Helicopter Parenting and Its Consequences (08:35 – 15:04)

The discussion shifts to parenting styles, particularly helicopter and snowplow parenting—both characterized by over-involvement and preemptive problem-solving to shield children from adversity.

Quote:
Mark Gerson: “Children who are raised by helicopter parents do not develop the independence they need.”

Gerson references a 2007 University of Texas study indicating that up to 60% of parents exhibit helicopter parenting tendencies. He argues that such parenting restricts children’s ability to handle challenges, leading to issues like increased anxiety and dependency in adulthood. He underscores the importance of allowing children to face and navigate moderate adversity to build resilience and independence.

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Biblical Insights on Parenting Independence (12:15 – 17:58)

Mark draws from the biblical narrative of Abraham and Sarah celebrating Isaac’s weaning to highlight the importance of marking milestones in a child’s growing independence.

Quote:
Mark Gerson: “When your child reaches a new stage of independence, celebrate it.”

He posits that celebrating these small steps fosters a sense of autonomy and responsibility in children, aligning with the book’s theme of resisting overparenting fueled by fear. Gerson emphasizes that such practices not only honor the child’s growth but also lay the foundation for them to become self-sufficient adults.

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The Significance of Small Actions: No Small Things (25:02 – 35:44)

A pivotal theme in God Was Right is the concept that "there are no small things." Mark illustrates this through the story of a grandfather who models integrity by returning a lost dollar, thereby teaching his grandson a lasting lesson without explicit instruction.

Quote:
Mark Gerson: “Everything we do, particularly in front of our children, is teaching them something.”

He relates this to the scientific principle of the butterfly effect, where minor actions can have significant long-term consequences. This underscores the profound impact of seemingly trivial behaviors and the importance of intentionality in everyday actions, especially for parents and educators.

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Negativity Bias and Its Implications (35:44 – 41:19)

The conversation delves into the negativity bias—our natural tendency to prioritize negative experiences over positive ones. Mark explains how this bias manifests in various aspects of life, from advertising strategies to personal relationships.

Quote:
Mark Gerson: “Negativity bias teaches us that we are naturally going to weigh negative things more than we do positive things.”

He discusses how this bias can be manipulated, as seen in the anti-smoking campaigns that focus on the dire consequences of smoking rather than the benefits of quitting. Gerson advocates for channeling this bias positively, such as using it to enhance the appreciation of positive experiences like the Sabbath, thereby counterbalancing its overwhelming influence.

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The Role of Grandparents in Child Development (55:00 – 67:31)

Mark and Jenny explore the critical role grandparents play in fostering future orientation and providing unconditional love to grandchildren. Drawing from both biblical teachings and social science, Mark outlines how grandparents contribute to the emotional and cognitive development of children.

Quote:
Mark Gerson: “Grandparents have a sacred role in the Bible of the preservation of Jewish memory, of education of the children.”

He highlights the evolutionary significance of grandparents through the grandmother hypothesis, which posits that grandparents aid in the survival and proliferation of their genes by supporting their children’s child-rearing efforts. Additionally, they maintain their own cognitive health by staying active and engaged with family life.

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Practical Takeaways and Tips (25:46 – 48:41)

Mark offers actionable advice for parents aiming to break away from overprotective parenting styles:

1. Make a Commitment: Decide early on not to adopt helicopter parenting habits.
2. Celebrate Independence: Acknowledge and celebrate each stage of your child’s growing autonomy.
3. Embrace Small Actions: Recognize that every interaction and behavior serves as a lesson for children.
4. Channel Negativity Bias: Use the inherent negativity bias to foster positive experiences and appreciation.
5. Engage with Diverse Perspectives: Surround yourself with friends who think differently to broaden your worldview.

Quote:
Mark Gerson: “If we celebrate the independence of our children, they're not going to call the college health line when there's a mouse in their room.”

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Connecting Biblical Teachings with Modern Science (26:17 – 34:51)

Mark elaborates on how God Was Right bridges ancient wisdom with contemporary scientific insights. He asserts that the Bible serves as a timeless guidebook, offering practical advice validated by modern social science.

Quote:
Mark Gerson: “The Bible was written thousands of years ago but offers guidance that is highly practical, relevant, and interesting for our decisions today.”

He discusses various chapters from his book, such as the importance of routine, the impact of peer pressure, and building strong character traits, all supported by scientific research. This synthesis provides a robust framework for parents and individuals seeking to align their lives with both spiritual and rational principles.

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Final Reflections and Personal Anecdotes (60:24 – 67:31)

As the conversation winds down, Jenny and Mark share personal stories that illustrate the episode’s themes. Mark recounts a childhood memory of losing a sneaker and the comforting response from his mother and grandmother, highlighting the lasting impact of perspective and support in overcoming childhood anxieties.

Quote:
Mark Gerson: “I saw the love of my mother and my grandmother, putting things in perspective.”

He also reflects on the role of routines, gratitude, and forward-thinking illustrated through his interactions with influential figures like Dr. Ruth, further emphasizing the intertwined nature of personal habits and long-term well-being.

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Conclusion

This episode of The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast offers a compelling exploration of how biblical teachings and modern psychology intersect to inform effective parenting, personal growth, and community building. Mark Gerson’s insights, grounded in both faith and research, provide listeners with practical strategies to foster independence in children, counteract the paralyzing effects of fear, and recognize the profound influence of even the smallest actions.

By advocating for intentional parenting practices and the cherished role of grandparents, the episode underscores the importance of nurturing environments that promote resilience, character, and lasting happiness.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Fear and Its Impacts:

  • Mark Gerson (04:57): “The Bible tells us 85 times, do not fear.”

• Helicopter Parenting:

  • Mark Gerson (08:35): “Children who are raised by helicopter parents do not develop the independence they need.”

• Small Actions:

  • Mark Gerson (25:02): “Everything we do, particularly in front of our children, is teaching them something.”

• Negativity Bias:

  • Mark Gerson (35:44): “Negativity bias teaches us that we are naturally going to weigh negative things more than we do positive things.”

• Role of Grandparents:

  • Mark Gerson (55:00): “Grandparents have a sacred role in the Bible of the preservation of Jewish memory, of education of the children.”

• Personal Anecdote:

  • Mark Gerson (60:24): “I saw the love of my mother and my grandmother, putting things in perspective.”

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Recommendation:
For parents seeking to foster independence and resilience in their children while aligning their parenting practices with both spiritual and scientific principles, Mark Gerson’s God Was Right is an invaluable resource. It offers actionable insights grounded in timeless wisdom and contemporary research, making it a must-read for those committed to "taking back childhood" and inspiring others in their community.

Transcript

[Unknown Speaker]

Imagine raising your children and going through your entire life never having seen a Bible in your own language, never being able to open God's word for comfort, truth or direction. For many around the world, that's reality. But that is changing. CREW has missionaries in nearly every country and they are seeing people come to faith in Jesus in incredible numbers. In Africa, believers are sharing one Bible among entire communities. In Europe, teens are asking for Bibles faster than we can provide them. And in places where Christianity is underground, the gospel is exploding, but access to scripture has not caught up. That's why I love partners partnering with crew. They're working to put Bibles into the hands of those who are desperate for truth. With just 24amonth, you can give three people the gift of God's word every month. And as a thank you, crew will provide 12 meals to those in need. And you'll receive a free copy of my book until the street lights come on. To give, text our H o u r to 71326 or visit give.crew.org hour that's H O u r to 71326 message and data rates may apply US addresses only. Your monthly gift can truly make a massive and eternal impact.

[Jenny Yurch]

Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Yurch. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside. And if you have listened for a while, you know that I have read a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of books. This is maybe close to the 500th episode that we have recorded. And I would say one of my top, top favorite books is a book I just read by Mark Gerson. And Mark Gerson is here. Welcome.

[Mark Gerson]

Thank you, Ginny. It's so great to be with you.

[Jenny Yurch]

This book is fantastic. Fantastic. Thank you. It is called God was right. And I love the premise of it because we talk some about this sort of spiritual side of getting outside and to have these scriptures, that many are counterintuitive and now to kind of bring in this science and say no, all of these things are right. And there are so many topics that you go over in this bookmark. So give us just a quick background of your story. I know you, you teach these Torah Tuesdays. Bestselling author, father of four. A little bit of your background and we are going to dive into this incredible, incredible book that comes out June 3rd. God was right.

[Mark Gerson]

Well, thank you, Jenny. Yeah. So I live in New York City. I'm married to a rabbi, Erica, and we are blessed with four children. As you said. I'm an entrepreneur. I Started my first company, gerson Lammer Group GLG in 1998, started another company several years ago called 3i members. And I've also co founded and chair two charities, United Hatzalah of Israel, which is the country's crowdsourced system of volunteer first response and African Mission Healthcare, where we partner with Christian missionary doctors at Christian hospitals in Africa to provide clinical care, build infrastructure, do training and hospital administration. And as you said, Jenny, I also teach Torah every Tuesday through Eagle's Wings, which is a parachurch ministry of Christian Zionists and Philo Semitic Christians. And we just go through the Torah, the five books of Moses, from Genesis to Deuteronomy, really, line by line, seeking to extract the highly practical, relevant and always interesting meaning behind each verse, often each word in the verse. And it's every Tuesday at noon if anyone wants to join on Zoom.

[Jenny Yurch]

This is incredible. And I want to mention that the proceeds from this book, which this book comes out June 3rd and I think would be a wonderful, wonderful Father's Day gift. I already texted one of my friends, I was like, your dad's going to love this one. It is a phenomenal. And all of the proceeds go to African Michigan Healthcare, which you just talked about. Co founded in 2010. If there's one biblical verse that is incumbent upon all faithful Jews and Christians, it is Deuteronomy 10. You shall love the stranger. So just so people know that from the onset the book is God was right. You go through the science of reality, the science of self improvement. You go through how we ought to think, how we ought to feel, how we ought to act, how things are, how should we live with others communally. It is a wonderful book. I have, I told you at the beginning, 13 pages of notes and I had to limit myself because I learned so much and I was just enthralled. I loved reading it. Just one of my all time favorites. I want to start here because I learned this close to the end, but I just met Dr. Marty Makary on Tuesday. On Tuesday we met.

[Mark Gerson]

He's a great man.

[Jenny Yurch]

Yes. And he had been on our podcast in October a while ago, six months.

[Mark Gerson]

Ago for his book Blind Spots.

[Jenny Yurch]

For Blind Spots. Yes.

[Mark Gerson]

Terrific book.

[Jenny Yurch]

Is a terrific book. And he remembered. Now we interviewed in October, Mark, and he remembered. He, he said, I remember because I had read all three of his books and it was wonderful to meet him. And you talk about him in the book, in the section about fear. So I figured that would be a great place to start, Mark, because especially with parents, these Days, just the way that we live, there is a lot of fear. Can you talk to us about the most common instruction in the Bible?

[Mark Gerson]

Yes. So the most common instruction in the Bible, I think it's 85 times it says, do not fear. So why would the Bible tell us 85 times, do not fear? Well, the first question we have to ask is, why does the Bible tell us anything? The Bible never tells us something we would do without its guidance. So, for instance, the Bible never tells us, love your children. No one needs any help or instruction to love our children. It's something that happens naturally. So when the Bible tells us something, what it's basically saying is, you're likely to do this. You're naturally going to do this. Don't do it. So when the Bible says do not fear 85 times, it's articulating a concern that we're going to fear. And that fear can be immobilizing, fear can be unhealthy, fear can be dangerous, and fear will be ubiquitous. And if you go to Deuteronomy, it tells us what we might fear. And this is in the section in Deuteronomy on the curses. It says, the curse is, you will fear a windblown leaf. So what it's telling us is that fear is not something rational. It may be rational to be afraid of a charging lion. And that's why fear happens, to get us out of danger. The problem is fear goes crazy and goes crazy, so much to the point that the Bible tells us that a curse is you will fear a windblown leaf. And, yeah, so I have a chapter on fear because it's one of the real central biblical themes. And the problems with fear and the ubiquity of fear have been validated by modern social science. And one of the examples which I think is so relevant to the work you do on this podcast, Ginny, is the policies in states all over the country that we have that are really about fear. So, for instance, I go through these policies, and these policies exist, interestingly, in red and blue states about public libraries. So public libraries in states all around the country have rules prohibiting children under 12 or 13 from being in the library unattended. So what's wrong with the kid going to the public library by him or herself? I did it all the time. Well, it goes through all the things that could. These. The policies go through all the things that could happen. In other words, all the things to fear for a child in a public library. And these are literally things like stairs, desks, outlets. So this is one example, and I have many examples of this in the book of how our society is all too often fearing that windblown leaf out of Deuteronomy and how the Bible tells us not to fear. And so the Bible tells us not to fear. And what we also know is just how immobilizing and how dangerous fear can be. And when, when we're afraid, it's the opposite of growth. It inhibits independence, it causes us all kinds of anxiety, which has really terrible health effects. And in comes the Bible and says 85 times, do not fear. And do not fear is a great lesson that parents should really take to heart when they think about how am I going to set the rules for my child. And they should remember the Bible says do not fear. And so I talk in the book about what exactly should we fear? And the conclusion I came to drawing from the Bible is that we should fear things that are immediate dangers. So if there's a wild dog charging at you, fear it. Everything else should be demoted to a concern. And when something is a concern, you can think about it rationally, you can analyze it logically, and you can come to a reasoned conclusion. None of which happens with fear, because when you're in fear, all you want to do is escape the danger at all costs. So we better be sure that danger is a genuine peril and not something that we could safely, comfortably and properly demote to a mere concern.

[Jenny Yurch]

This is an incredible book because it's so practical. The whole book is so practical. So you're talking about fear in terms of, with Dr. Marty McCary, you're talking about you have dinner plans on March 10, 2020.

[Mark Gerson]

March, that's right.

[Jenny Yurch]

That's what you had. And then you wrote about how he was one of the nation's leading authorities on Covid, reviewing all of these studies and basically saying we're fearing too much. This is nonsensical, it's anti scientific, often downright cruel. Some of the policies that were brought up during those times.

[Mark Gerson]

Exactly.

[Jenny Yurch]

And you wrote about this professor at the University of Michigan, which is where I went to school, wrote, there's a pandemic of fear unfolding alongside the pandemic of the coronavirus. And fear works in groups. So you're talking about that. And then you also have all of these authors that I've spoken to in the past, some of my personal favorites, Lenore Skenazi, Dr. Peter Gray. So this culture of fear that we're in, in an Age of Fear is what you write. We're living in an age of fear is also extending into safetyism. You're talking about the libraries.

[Mark Gerson]

Oh, yeah. I mean, so the example with. With. With Marty. So Marty's a great friend, and I always turn to him on matters of healthcare, whether it's public policy, healthcare, even personal healthcare. Just a great friend, a great doctor. And Marty and I were planning to have dinner, as we always do when he comes to New York, on March 10, 2020. So that was like a Tuesday or Wednesday. And then on that Sunday, I was in a school cafeteria because my son was playing in a chess tournament. And I got this email from Marty saying he was canceling dinner on March 10 because of the coronavirus, because of COVID And he said, it's really serious. And so he said, he's not coming to New York, cancel dinner. And that was my moment where I'm like, oh, my God, this is real. Because before that, Covid was something I had only read about in the newspaper. It was very theoretical. But when Marty, a truly great doctor, is canceling dinner because I knew it was real. So Marty knew how real Covid was earlier than almost everybody else. So much so that he canceled his trip to New York in that week when everyone found out how serious it was. So Marty was totally right about COVID in March of 2020, and he continued to be right. And what Marty counseled is Marty had all the data. I think at one point he told me he had half the country's data or something, and he had more data than anybody else. He also had access to all the public data, and he was sharing the data he had. So he had data and he was sharing it. And what he was educating people is, this is real. But do not fear, do not set public policies based on fear. Do not keep kids out of school. And Marty was a consistent voice of truth against fear and for a reason throughout the COVID pandemic. And I was just fortunate as his friend to have a front row seat to his reason, his rationality, his intelligence, and his ability to weigh the science against the fear and to constantly come out for the science against the fear and to counsel anybody who would listen to set intelligent public policies that are not based in fear. Some states listened to Marty, many didn't.

[Jenny Yurch]

And you wrote every review of the data confirmed what a New York magazine analysis concluded in mid-2021. The kids were safe the whole time. So this fear definitely works in groups. That's one of the things that you wrote. And it has permeated into a lot of areas of parenting. So you're talking about helicopter parenting, kids being fragile. And one of the things that you wrote was that when parents are helicoptering over and, you know, they're saying, be careful, and they're constantly stepping in, that this affects children in the long term. So you say one question that nearly every couple must consider is how they plan to raise their children. Can you talk about what that means in terms of, well, what's the biblical basis there against helicopter parenting?

[Mark Gerson]

Yeah, great point. There are a couple really interesting biblical ideas that you just raised. So first, fear exists in groups. How do we know this? It's right there in the Book of Numbers, in the story of the scouts. The 12 scouts go to scout out the land. This is the land of Israel. Before the Israelites were going to go into the land, they just go to scout it out. It's not a spy mission, it's a scouting mission. And they're supposed to come back and just give a report. Instead, what happens? They go there, and the text is very clear. They get scared, and they come back. So 10 of the 12 are scared. The other two are Joshua and Caleb. They resist the fear, and they say, we can do it. We can conquer. But they're overruled by the 10 who get scared, showing just how powerful fear can be. And then we see in the text how fear can be even more powerful because they convince everybody else to be afraid of what God and Moses want them to do. So God and Moses want them to take the land, yet 10 people come back and are afraid, and their fear becomes infectious. So the lesson from the Bible for all of us, and that's exactly what we saw during COVID and it's exactly what we've seen in other instances, because the Bible is a book of all time, which is fear is so powerful, powerful that in the Bible, it even overcame the clear will of God. In Moses, it's that powerful, and it's infectious. And in the. In the story, in the Book of Numbers, it infected everybody pretty much immediately. So fear is powerful. It's in, it's infectious, and it's fast. Yeah. So that. That's a characteristic of fear in the Bible and validated in modern social science. So I'm so glad, Ginny, that you brought up helicopter parenting and snowplow parenting. All right, so what's the difference? Well, the term helicopter parenting, I go through this, and God was right. The helicopter parenting was a term that was coined in a book in 1968 by the psychologist Hans Gunnough. And what helicopter parenting is, is the helicopter Parent is the parent who hovers over his or her child so that anytime that child has any adversity, the parent can land the helicopter and arrest the adversity, stop the problem before the child has to deal with it, which is one of the worst things you can do for a child. Because what we parents all want to do is, is to give our kids independence and the strength that comes with independence to deal with the problems that will inevitably arise. Because helicopter parents can't be there forever. So kids have to learn how to deal with adversity before it becomes real. And they can't learn how to deal with adversity if there is no adversity, because the helicopter parents always coming down and sweeping out of the way. So the snowplow parent is the same concept. It's just different. The snowplow parent is the snowplow going ahead of the kid, removing all the adversity before the kid can get to it. So it's basically the same concept. Helicopter parents and snowplow parents. And I quote in the book, There was a 2007 study from the University of Texas that showed that up to 60% of parents can be classified as helicopter parents.

[Jenny Yurch]

Wow.

[Mark Gerson]

So that's how prevalent it is now. Helicopter parenting and snowplow parenting. And the reason why I encourage all couples when they get married to think about what kind of parents they should be. Because you don't want to just stumble into being a helicopter parent. You don't want to be one at all. But what we've seen from fear in the Bible and fear in modern life is that fear can just be overwhelming. It can overtake you unless you thoughtfully agree with yourself not to let it. What we've seen is that children who are raised by helicopter parents do not develop the independence they need. And we see this in studies that happens when they become young adults and they enter the workforce, which is they can't handle critiques from employers. They're more likely to quit their job. They're more likely to tell the employer they were unfair, and they're even more likely to ask a parent to call the manager on their behalf. So what we have to do as parents is to really make a commitment, really, before we have that first child say, I won't be a helicopter parent. I won't be a snowplow parent. In other words, I'm going to let my child take risks. Because what parents have to realize is there are risks to action and there are risks to inaction. So are there risks to letting your kid just say, Have a great day, take your bike, go into town, and I hope to see you before dinner time. Is there a risk there? We can all make up stories, which, by the way, fear encourages us to do. Fear unleashes the imagination and has us make up crazy stories about things that are highly unlikely to happen. But yes, some highly unlikely event might happen. So there's a risk of that. But there's a certainty that if we don't give our children that freedom and we don't give them that independence, there's not a risk, there's a certainty that they will not develop the independence they need to be free, vibrant adults now. So what does the Bible tell us about this? So the Bible has a great lesson in this. If we just followed what the Bible said, we really would not have to worry about helicopter and snowplow parenting. So where is this? So this is in mid Genesis when Abraham and Sarah, they have a child. That child is Isaac. Isaac turns three. This is all in the biblical text. When Isaac is three, he's weaned. Okay, that's reasonable. What do they do when he's weaned? So, well, first, what is weaning? Weaning is an example of independence. You can now eat independently. Like, you don't. You need to eat at your mother's breast all the time. You now eat independently. Weaning is really the first one of the first acts, maybe the first act of independence for a child. Okay, so this is the biblical exemplar of child's independence. What do Abraham and Sarah do? They celebrate with a feast. So what's the Bible telling us to do when your child reaches a new stage of independence? Have a celebration. So the first step of independence, it might be weaning celebrated. Okay, the child's not gonna know what you're doing. But the Bible is celebrating the weaning by telling us, celebrate the stages of your children's independence. Encourage it, celebrate it, welcome it. Because by giving our children that independence, by making that children. I have a chapter on this anti fragile. We're gonna make that child into the adult we want him to be.

[Unknown Speaker]

Can you imagine never having seen a Bible in your own language? Well, for millions of people around the world, that's not just a possibility. It' their everyday reality. And yet in most hotels in America, you can find a Bible for free in English, in the nightstand drawer. But the gospel is spreading in Africa, Europe, even in nations where faith has to be kept quiet. People are coming to Jesus in record numbers. And yet many have no access to a Bible of their own. That's why I love partnering with crew. CREW has missionaries in nearly every country and with your help they can get God's Word into the hands of those who are desperate for it. With just $24 a month, you can give three people the gift of God's Word every month. And as a thank you, crew will provide 12 meals to those in need and you'll receive a free copy of my book until the streetlights come on. To give, text our H o u r to 71326 or visit give crew.org hour that's h o u r to 71326 message and data rates may apply US addresses only. Let's be part of something impactful and eternal.

[Mark Gerson]

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[Unknown Speaker]

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[Mark Gerson]

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[Jenny Yurch]

Your father keeps from you, young Kosan.

[Mark Gerson]

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[Unknown Speaker]

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[Mark Gerson]

You know, Jenny, you talked about the study from Boston College in the book. It's interesting. And so why are college students having so many problems? And they really are. The data on college students is. It's incredible. I mean, in the sense that something like 45% of college students report that at some significant period of their college life, they feel so sad they're unable to continue. I mean, real depression. So why is that? Why is that? I mean, college should be the happiest time of your life. You're around friends, you're studying interesting subjects. You're probably healthy. Your parents are probably healthy. You don't have children to worry about. It should be the happiest, most carefree time in your life. And yet we see these. The mental health numbers in college are off the charts. So much so that an analysis I did for the book showed that if we were to give mental health treatment to every college student who needed it, according to what the surveys say, 3% of the American workforce would have to be psychologists serving only college students. Okay, so that's. That's crazy. So why is it. Why are college students having so many problems? I think the answer is because they're raised by helicopter and snowplow parents. If you're never taught how to deal with adversity, then this is what Jonathan Gray from Boston College said. If you're never taught how to deal with adversity, then the calls are coming in from college students to college offices saying, like, I saw a mouse in my room. My roommate was me, was mean to me. These are examples of kids not knowing how to deal with these problems by themselves. A mouse in my room, roommate was mean to me. And they're really anxious about it. And anxious in a clinical sense. What parents should do is before they become parents is just resolve to do what Abraham and Sarah did. And to celebrate the independence of our children. Because if we celebrate the independence of our children, if we have that celebration when they're weaned and we celebrate their next stage of independence, I'm going to a, a bar mitzvah of the son of a close friend on Saturday. That's a celebration of independence. If we celebrate our children's independence, they're not going to call the college health line when there's a mouse in their room.

[Jenny Yurch]

It's really good. And I do think a 3 year old is old enough to be excited about weaning. I think we wean pretty young.

[Mark Gerson]

You're totally right. Yeah. It's just usually they wean younger now.

[Jenny Yurch]

But, but yeah, yeah, but a three year old knows. They know when it's their birthday, they know when it's a party.

[Mark Gerson]

Jeannie, that's a great point. Exactly. No, I thought that's a great point. So yeah, kids usually wean younger than that. But that's a great point.

[Jenny Yurch]

Our kids were all three, so they knew. They, they were all there somewhere. Some were older, so they knew if it's a party.

[Mark Gerson]

Yeah, three year olds. No. Yeah, you're absolutely right. We have four kids. They're all way over three now. But you're totally right. I, you know, I think that's a great point you make. I think I'm just thinking about this now, but I, you know, one what, what can we learn from the Bible? When your kid is three, he's probably weaned by now, but when your kid is three, give him some new area of independence and celebrate it. Because three year olds love being celebrated and they'll know what's being celebrated. Say you're now independent. You could do something that you couldn't do yesterday. Congratulations, we're celebrating it. And then as the child progresses, give them more and more freedom, more and more independence and celebrate it to let them know that we celebrate independence. And yes, you're going to experience adversity on the way. And you know what? That adversity is going to make you stronger and better and we're proud of you for it.

[Jenny Yurch]

And you have this scripture, the more they were afflicted, the more they multiplied. And grew. And so that's the example of something that's counterintuitive. And so you're right. Affliction can and should be a source of growth and strength. There's obviously limits, but moderate challenges and adversity are beneficial for human flourishing. We should expose children to moderate challenges and adversity from an early age and you go through. It's very practical. Here's some tips on dealing with fear. Don't make yourself afraid. Distinguish between short and long term fear. Strengthen your relationship with God. Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me. That's right, Rod and your staff, they will comfort me. Engage with sources of fear. Acquire a friend who thinks differently. So like Dr. Marty Makary.

[Mark Gerson]

That's right.

[Jenny Yurch]

And this is just a smidgen. I was thinking, Mark, before we hopped on, when I was going and making my notes, you know, I have all these authors on and sometimes I think we could talk for a full hour about all sorts of things and then some I think, gosh, I wish I had a week. And then sometimes I'm like, I could talk about this book for the rest of my life.

[Mark Gerson]

Well, thank you so much.

[Jenny Yurch]

But people can because they can join in on the Torah Tuesdays. So that's just one small section we're talking about. There's 30 chapters in this book called God Was Right. And then you go through all the science. That's the thing. It's like this is the biblical text. Now. Here's the accompanying science that we now have.

[Mark Gerson]

And that's actually, Jane, I'm so glad you brought that up because that's. You totally got to the point of the book. So the Bible was written, no one knows exactly when. Probably around 3,000 years ago, maybe, maybe more. So the Bible was written thousands of years ago. And the first question we have to ask about the Bible is what kind of book is it we know? And I go through how we know this in God was right. It's not a history book. It's not a science book, it's not a cookbook. It is exactly what Moses says it is in Deuteronomy 29. It is a guidebook. So the Bible exists to give each of us, in the year 2025 and any other year, highly practical, relevant and interesting guidance for the decisions that we make all day, every day. And the existential decisions. Everything we do is guided by the Bible. So the Bible makes thousands of claims about who we are, who we can be, how we, how we should act, how we should address each kind of situation. For the past 3,000 years, all we've had to go by to assess whether the Bible was true was faith and experience. And now in the 21st century, we have a new tool which is social science. So what I did in God was right was to say is the Bible true? Is it false? Is it true in some places and perhaps anachronistic in others? And I took the biblical claims and assessed them with the social science in the 21st century. And what I found is all the advice, all the highly practical advice the Bible gives, it's true. And so that's why the book has several dozen chapters on subjects ranging from fear to antifragility to routine and future orientation and lots of others.

[Jenny Yurch]

I mean, so much it deals with imposter syndrome. I mean, you would think, like, to me, I'm like, oh, imposter syndrome. That seems like a today thing. You know, like, no, no, Moses. And you're talking about Joseph, and you're talking about reframing and how he said what you meant for evil. God meant for good. And I'm like, this is a powerful book. It's one of my favorite I've ever read. God was right. You have to get a copy. I mean, it will give you things to think about for your whole life. You could read it as a family. It's 30 chapters. You know, take one a day for a month or. I mean, it is such. Such a good book. I want to talk about just a couple other. There's so many things that we could talk about, but I picked out a few that were pertinent to parents. You talk about the science of no small things.

[Mark Gerson]

Yeah.

[Jenny Yurch]

And I just thought, oh, this is so powerful. I love if you kick it off with this story. Now, this story comes out of the section on education where you use this phrase, the teacher must be a text person. And I'd never heard that. I didn't even know what that meant when I read the subtitle of that. The teacher must be a text person. But there's this quote that says, of the thousands of classes a teacher may give, he has only one, and that is the way he lives. And so you tell this really powerful story about the dropped dollar. Can you tell that story about the dropped dollar? Do you know which one I'm talking about?

[Mark Gerson]

That was the one that happened to me.

[Jenny Yurch]

That was your story.

[Mark Gerson]

Wait, what was the drop dollar story?

[Jenny Yurch]

The drop. So an adult drops a dollar. So these kids are like on this field trip or something, and someone drops a dollar, and a kid picks it up and pockets it. And the other kid then drops a dollar and taps the person on the shoulder and said, you.

[Mark Gerson]

Oh, that wasn't me. That's right. That's right. Yeah.

[Jenny Yurch]

And it was so powerful because he learned it from his grandpa.

[Mark Gerson]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. So, yes, Jenny, that's such a good example. I know exactly what you're talking about now. So that was from the section on education. And one of the most important teachings from the Torah on education is that and this is what Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel said, textbooks are important, but text people are the most important. In other words, in order for the teacher to teach well, the student has to respect him. And the student will learn the most from observing how the teacher acts, how the teacher behaves. And of course, the teacher does not have to be and is not only a professional teacher. The most important teacher in a child's life are his parents. And so the example of the drop dollar story is that there was a field trip and it was taken to, like, some kind of an arcade or something. And a kid sees a dollar on the ground and he doesn't pocket it, but he turns it in. And he explains that he had learned this not because he read it in a textbook, but how do you know that you turn the dollar in because somebody lost it. And the Bible tells us that you must return lost things. But how do you, how does a kid know that and overcome the temptation to pocket the money and not turn it in? It's because he had observed his grandfather doing exactly that years ago because his grandfather, I think, had a candy store. His grandfather had done that in a candy store. So he observed his grandfather doing it. And I think it's such an important lesson because when the grandfather had turned in the lost dollar, he was just doing it because it was the right thing to do and because that was what his character had him do. But what was he actually doing? He was teaching, without knowing it, a profound lesson to his grandson that his grandson would do years later. And it's such an important point about. And Ginny, I love the fact that you brought up the chapter on no Small Things in this context, because everything we do, particularly in front of our children, is teaching them something. And we as parents, we never know what we do that our child is going to remember forever or remember at a certain point later in their life. And when we, when we think now as adults, when we think, and I have a section on this in the book, but when we think as adults as to moments in our childhood, we're probably not thinking about the spectacular events, the graduation, the confirmation, the bar mitzvah. We may be, but we're probably not. We're probably thinking about some event that has stayed prominent in our memory that maybe our parents even forgot, because you never know what's going to be the most meaningful event in a kid's life. You never know what we parents are going to do that our kids are going to learn from and take forever. And so I think one lesson from that, and this is right from the Bible, right from the story of Jacob crossing the Yavik river, is that there's no such thing as a small thing, is that everything we do very well could be the most important thing in our kids life. And what we have to realize is that we parents are teachers and we teach from textbooks, but more importantly, we teach as text people. So everything we do is a lesson for our children.

[Jenny Yurch]

This is such a chapter. The chapter on education is phenomenal as well. But talking about mundane matters, and it's so good for parents, if mundane matters are infused with holiness, what could be considered a mundane matter? And I read all of these books, Mark, where it's really interesting. Like even the story of the dropped dollar, that's an example of this. Because that grandfather, whoever that grandfather was, who all he did was pick up someone's dollar and give it back to them instead of pocketing, is now in your book. God was right.

[Mark Gerson]

Oh, great point. I'd not thought of that. Yeah, exactly, exactly.

[Jenny Yurch]

You never know. You never know about these small things.

[Mark Gerson]

Exactly. I've not thought of that. Jenny, you're so right. Yeah, this, this grandfather who picked up a dollar in the candy store and turned it in is now being. That story is being read about by everyone who reads. God was right. God knows how many years later. Yeah, exactly. You just. There's is a small thing because you never know. And, and the science on this is the butterfly effect. So the Torah on this is Jacob crossing the Yabik River. And I. And so why did he cross? Again, the teaching is he crossed because there were small pictures or small things. Because to, to a great man, there's no such thing as a small thing. And that's what the Torah is teaching us. And the science on this is what we know is the butterfly effect, which was discovered by Professor Lorenz in the 1960s. And what the butterfly effect teaches us, and it's one of the most popular scientific concepts, there was a movie, the butterfly effect, I think a song, the butterfly effect. But what the butterfly effect teaches is that the flapping of the wings of a butterfly in Brazil can cause a tornado in Texas or something like that. It's obviously not exact. But the point is, right, which is that what happened with Professor Lorenz is that he had a tiny calculation error and when he came back from Getting his coffee down the hall at mit. The result was drastically different. So what did he learn was that a tiny error early in the system has a huge impact later in the system. So what does it teach us? It teaches us that the smallest act now can have the most profound consequences later. And this applies everywhere. So the concept of no small things applies everywhere. It certainly applies to parents. Ginny, in the context we've been talking about, was that every parent should regard every conversation he has with his child, every example he sets with his child, as the one that's going to define that child forever. The greatest relationship psychologist of all time is Dr. John and Julie Gottman. I quote them several times through the book. And the title of the Gottman's podcast is Small Things Often. So what they're basically saying in the title of their podcast is, how do you have a happy marriage? Three words, small things often. There's no such thing as a small thing.

[Jenny Yurch]

Yeah. And you talked about with marriage, then you talk about how you should have way more positive interactions than negative ones. It takes 40 positive customer experiences to make up for one negative one. One. And then you wrote, Happy couples have 20 positive. I mean, this really made me think, Mark, Happy couples have 20 positive interactions to balance out a single negative interaction. I used to be a public school teacher, and occasionally I would have to call home because of behavior issues, and I taught high school math. And so I would always. This is what I would do. And I probably could have done more if I had to make one negative phone call. I would make three positive phone calls right after so that the next day in class, there would be more of a positive vibe than the kid. One kid that was mad brilliant. And it worked because the kids would come in, they'd be all of kids that were thrilled, and then it would counterbalance. I could have probably done more, but 20 to 1. So in this thing about there are no small things you talk about. Little by little is a scriptural text there.

[Mark Gerson]

Right.

[Jenny Yurch]

You talk about. There's so many things in this part about small things. Nature walks. That comes up. What's one best way to stop ruminating? It's not years of therapy, a drug regimen, or any other big thing. It is to take walks in nature. If walk in the park seems like a small thing, a smile might even appear smaller. But you talked about how even kids that were smiling in these death camps in Bergen Belsen.

[Mark Gerson]

Yeah, exactly. I'm so glad you brought up those examples. So, yeah, so the. The Bible tells us in Deuteronomy little by little things will happen. Why little by little? Well, because the Bible is telling us that's how the world works. The world works with things happening little by little. So if the world works with things happening little by little, then there is no such thing as little because it's just the way the world works. And yeah, the, the example that I gave from that was the Rebbetson Young Rice. She was a child survivor of the Holocaust, and when she was in the camp, her father told her to just, he said, you can smile at people and if you smile at people, you'll lift their spirits. So a child's smile is no small thing. Yeah, I mean, a child's smile was able to lift the spirits of people in whatever way in hell on earth. And I've taught my kids that lesson, albeit in a thank, thank God in a very different context, but is that it actually came up in our, in a Torah study that we do with our family and some friends. It's like, what can a child, a small child do to give? Small child doesn't have any money. A small child can't really do volunteer work. Small child, four year old. So what can a small child give? I said a small child can give a smile. Yeah, you know, I took it right from that example. And a child's smile is no small thing. It can brighten the day of an adult. So, yes, there's no such thing as a small thing. And there are gifts that everybody can give. And the example of the 40 to 1 with the customer feedback, I'm really glad you brought that out because that's in the chapter on the negativity bias. So what is the negativity bias says? Well, the Bible has several examples of this. And what the negativity bias teaches is that we are naturally going to weigh negative things more than we do positive things because one bad meal can kill you, but one good meal can't save you. So we're naturally conditioned to value the negative more than the positive. There's nothing wrong with it in a sense, because if we don't, it's gonna be pretty dangerous because, you know, if a food smells bad, don't eat it. That's the negativity bias. But the problem is that the negativity bias, like fear, knows no boundaries. And so we naturally weigh the negative more than the positive, which, by the way, I explore. This is why negative advertising works.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Mark Gerson]

This is why the anti smoking campaign worked. Anti smoking campaign never said, if you don't smoke, you'll be very healthy. The anti smoking campaign said, if you keep smoking, you're going to die and you're going to die a gruesome death. And the pictures on the cigarette cartons and I go through this just got more and more gruesome over time as the scientists behind this campaigns really rediscovered what the Bible taught us about how powerful the negativity bias is. So, yeah, so the example in the 40 to 1 is why are small business owners so concerned about one negative review on Yelp or wherever? So concerned? It's because one negative review is vastly more powerful than one positive review. It's like 40 to 1. So, yeah, that's a chapter on the negativity bias. And then the Bible certainly makes us aware of the negativity bias, but it also instructs us that even though we're going to value the negative more than the positive, we can't get rid of the negativity bias. Instead, we should channel it. So what we should do is we should say we're going to allow the negativity bias to free us to do what is positive. A great example of this is you can't do a whole bunch of labors on the Sabbath. Well, why not? You can't do those labors on the Sabbath because if you do those labors, you will not be able to appreciate, enjoy the incredible joy and gift of the Sabbath. If you're checking your phone all the time on your Sabbath, if you're working on the Sabbath, then you're not going to be in the frame of mind. You may not even have the time, but you certainly won't be in the mental space to really enjoy your family, to enjoy your community, to engage with the Bible, to play games with your kids. All the things that the Sabbath is designed for. First you have to be careful not to do the things you shouldn't do it. And then you're liberated to enjoy the thing that you're meant to do.

[Jenny Yurch]

It's cool because you, you went from the scripture text from Deuteronomy 28, which is so interesting, Mark, because that's one of my favorites. And I love the story of Joseph. I love how much you highlighted his story in this book. But so Deuteronomy 28, it's like, you know, if you fully obey the commandments, you know, blessed will you be in the city, and blessed will you be in the country. And bless will be your kneading trough, which I love, because this is like baking your bread. And, you know, blessed will be the fruit of your livestock. It's all these things, all these blessings will overtake you, and your enemies will come in at one direction and flee in seven. So anyway, to be honest, though, Mark, I never. Once it got to the curses. I don't even think I've ever read that through thoroughly. Hardly. You know, I always just read the beginning and you wrote. And you do notice, like, if you're just looking at length, you're like, well, the curse section is very long, right? It's three times as long.

[Mark Gerson]

Yeah, the curse section is three times as long, which is in it. Which is. I think that's the Bible teaching us about the negativity bias, that we're going to value the curses more than the blessings, and we have to pay attention to both. But we have to realize that even. And social science has totally validated this in the sense that it feels about twice as bad to lose X dollars as it feels good to win X dollars. Right? So the negativity bias is totally true. As we said, there are sound, natural reasons for it. But what the Bible's telling us is use the negativity bias for your benefit. It. Don't let it overwhelm you. Contain it and channel it.

[Jenny Yurch]

That. Mark, I really. I could probably have quoted you the first part where it talks about, you know, blessed will be the work of your hands. I have not really hardly read the. The other part where it says, the Lord will strike you with wasting disease, with fever and inflammation, with scorching heat and drought, with blight and mildew, which will plague you until you perish. The sky over your head will be bronze and the ground beneath you iron. The Lord will turn the reign of your country into dust and pow. This is really a great example that you put. The Lord will afflict you with madness, blindness, and confusion of mind. You.

[Mark Gerson]

You.

[Jenny Yurch]

I mean, gets even worse. You build a house, but you will not live there. But that's a great. That's a great word for it. So anyway, just. Okay, all right. So negativity bias. I mean, these are just current things.

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[Jenny Yurch]

How about this? As we're sort of getting toward the end of our time together, and like I said, a lot of these chapters, they overlap a lot of the concepts and the scriptures. So. So it's still in the small things you talked about. And I never heard or thought of this ever. You talk about the Ten Commandments, so you start off with character. So talking about small things, you know, we're raising kids and we're wanting them to get good SAT scores and we're wanting them to get into this higher education, and, you know, we're wanting them to be on travel, sports, and all.

[Unknown Speaker]

Of these big things.

[Jenny Yurch]

But you talk about the small things and you talk about character. And so one of the things that you talk about is that there's these 10 commandments and they're actionable, but it culminates with character, coveting. Can you talk about that?

[Mark Gerson]

Yeah, I'm so glad you brought that up, Jenny. Yeah. So. So the Ten Commandments, the first nine, are about actions. Honor your mother and your father. Number five, do not steal, do not murder, do not commit adultery. These are actions. So then we're up to the first nine. And then we say, okay, I guess it only matters what we do. By the way, what we do is extremely important, of course. But you get to the first nine, it's like, I, I guess it only matters what we do as distinct from character. And then you get to number 10 and it said, thou shalt not covet. Well, coveting is a character trait. So that the Ten Commandments, the ultimate commandment, is a commandment to character. And the Bible is really full of instructions as to both. Actions are important, but also character is important. And so, for instance, the Bible, you know, Jenny, we brought before the example of the lost dollar. So the Bible Tells us us, you shall become incapable of not returning lost things. Okay, you shall become incapable. That's a character statement. It doesn't say, you shall return lost things, of course you should, but it says you shall be incapable of not. In other words, this is that the grandfather in the example, he was obviously incapable of not returning the dollar, right? He had to return the dollar. He was incapable. And we can all think of things that we're morally incapable of doing. And what the Bible is saying is, that's good. We should condition ourselves to be incapable of doing the things we shouldn't do. So it's not really a choice. Because if you're not capable of doing something, you don't have a choice in the matter. Right. So by definition. So the Bible's saying become incapable of doing things you shouldn't do. Okay, so is this relevant? Is this important? Well, what's the counter? The counter is just use your willpower. Use your willpower. You know, you don't want to do something, you don't have to be incapable of it. Just use your willpower and your willpower will work. And then you won't do it. And it'll be good, right? No. Well, how do we know that? Well, interestingly, the Bible. The Bible has so little regard for the idea of willpower that it doesn't mention the word, it doesn't address the concept. It's like this is. It's. I think it's the biblical author saying, this is ridiculous. We're not going to dignify the concept of willpower. And what does modern social science says? Modern social science tells us that willpower is very weak. And even when it succeeds, it fails in the sense that I have the studies on this in the book, that even if we successfully call upon our willpower not to do something that we're otherwise tempted to do, it takes away energy that we need for. For subsequent tasks. So what's the solution? The solution is to be incapable of doing the things we shouldn't do. Because if I'm incapable of doing something, then I don't need to use any willpower to do it.

[Jenny Yurch]

Yeah, and you talked about this was in the science of living in routine. It See how it all goes together. You talk about this social rhythm therapy, so that people are treating addiction, which is a willpower. You know, everyone would say, willpower, willpower, treating addiction. You say, no, you. You have this rhythm where you have. Every hour is accounted for from 7 in the morning till 11pm and this works for oppositional defiance disorder. It Might. It works for adhd. The solution is to incorporate high levels of family routine, and it will help lead people from destructive behavior toward normalcy, and then from normalcy to excellence and to. So, I mean, this is all the practical stuff of all of these small things, like the character, how they add up. And you talked about how small and big crimes are on the same path. We are either on a good path or a bad path. If one is short with his children or rude to a parking lot attendant, it is not a small thing.

[Mark Gerson]

Right.

[Jenny Yurch]

It is a signal that he is on the wrong path. One who is on the wrong path for small things will be on the wrong path to path for everything.

[Mark Gerson]

Exactly.

[Jenny Yurch]

Including unquestionably big things.

[Mark Gerson]

Right? Exactly.

[Jenny Yurch]

Big for parenting.

[Mark Gerson]

Right. And I got that because the Bible talks all the time about the path. So the Bible's turned. What path are you on? That example that you quoted from the book, Jenny, the parking lot attendant. I mean, if someone's rude to a parking lot attendant, hey, it's not. It's not a small thing. It's. It's bad for the parking attendant. It's bad for the soul. The person who said it. It's really bad if there's a child around who hurts.

[Jenny Yurch]

Started.

[Mark Gerson]

Right. And is now going to. Going to take that as behavior that can be modeled. So it's. It's bad in a lot of reasons, but it's. It's also. So it's bad for all those reasons, but it's also bad because it tells you, what kind of path are you on? You're on the path of somebody who's rude to parking lot attendance. Like, you're on a bad path. And if you will do that, then what else might be along that path you're on? Other really bad things. So what the Bible counsels us is that if you were rude to the parking lot attendant, you should realize, hey, you know, I'm on a bad path. I got to get on a better path.

[Jenny Yurch]

Yes.

[Mark Gerson]

You know, this is not a small thing. This is an example that I'm on a bad path, which might be the biggest thing there is for me.

[Jenny Yurch]

Don't succumb to the bigger fish to fry logic. And you're gonna have to correct me if I'm wrong, but there is a verse in Proverbs that says something along the lines of, he who is in the way of life is also in the way of life for others.

[Mark Gerson]

Oh, beautiful. I didn't know that one. Yeah, beautiful. Yeah.

[Jenny Yurch]

And conversely, if you're in the way of death. You're in the way, you're affecting other people. It's the butterfly event.

[Mark Gerson]

Exactly.

[Jenny Yurch]

It's the drop dollar. And it's not just about you.

[Mark Gerson]

I would have quoted that if I knew that. Jenny Y. Exactly. That's a great example. Yes. And I do just discuss in the book how the modern notion that it doesn't matter what I do as long as nobody else is effective is totally illogical because this is actually in the section on peer pressure. So there's a chapter in the book on peer pressure in the Bible and modern life. And what the Bible suggests and what modern science confirms is every single thing we do impacts other people. So the biblical example is Korak's Rebellion from numbers 16, where Korak leads. He's the rebel without a cause. He leads a rebellion against Moses with no positive agenda whatsoever. And Korak is a Levite and he's joined by the Reubenites. So why did the Reubenites join Korak? Because previously we saw that the Reubenites sat next to the Korites at the tabernacle. So it was the peer pressure. And what do we see in in modern life is that almost every decision we make, from what age do we get married, how many children do we have, do people do drugs? All these decisions are made in peer groups.

[Jenny Yurch]

Groups.

[Mark Gerson]

Everything we do is influenced by peer groups. Everything we do is influenced by peer groups. So the idea that I can do whatever I want so long as it doesn't impact anybody else is illogical because everything I do impacts other people. Everything I do impacts other people. There was studies in the book too about showing using data from Facebook that even third degree connections influence how happy somebody's likely to be. So that the happiness of a third degree connection has some impact on how happy people are down the line is that we all live in a genuine community, a real society, and everything we do impacts other people. And Ginny, that gets back to your point about no small things like if everything I do is going to impact other people, some profoundly, perhaps my children, some less directly. But as you pointed out, here we are talking about that grandfather who picked up the dollar. So everything I do is going to impact somebody else. It really elevates the importance of all of our actions, all of our decisions, and importantly, all of our words.

[Jenny Yurch]

Let me read a couple of these sentences from the science of peer pressure. Adolescents took 50 to 200% more risks when they thought they were being observed by their peers. 75% of people are more likely to become divorced if a friend is divorced right we are. And here's what you were just talking about. We are 6%. This one bolded.

[Mark Gerson]

Right.

[Jenny Yurch]

We are 6% more likely to be happy if our friends. Friends. Friend.

[Mark Gerson]

Crazy.

[Jenny Yurch]

Is happy. Everything we say and do is likely more important. I want to read this from Proverbs. This is in the Amplified. I have this one called Amplified Classic. I don't know what you think about all those translations, but he who learns from instruction and correction is on the right path of life. And for others, his example is a path toward wisdom and blessing. But he who ignores and refuses correction goes off course. And for others, his example is a path toward sin and ruin. It's Proverbs 10:17. So then you talk about how. Okay, all right. I just want to read a couple more sentences. I love this book. The act of smiling. This is when we talked about earlier. The act of smiling releases neurotransmitters. Dopamine, serotonin, endorphins that alleviate depression, lift mood, relax the body, lower heart rate, blood pressure. No small things. You. Then you talk about the sports stuff. So this is what I'm saying. This is a great book. Get it for your husband. Get it for somebody that you love for Father's Day. This is the book that you want. I mean, it is wonderful because you include all the sports. So there are all these coaches, like the coach. This coach from Alabama, college football. Everyone is prepared in big things, but only the winners. Perfect.

[Unknown Speaker]

The little things, Right?

[Jenny Yurch]

Vince Lombardi. Life's a game of inches, and inches make the champion. Probably the biggest thing I learned from Bill Belichick.

[Mark Gerson]

Belichick, yeah.

[Jenny Yurch]

Is that there isn't anything that is not important. And then you even talk about. I know we're, like, really focusing on this chapter on small things, but how in the Bible, it says that God keeps track of all our sorrows. You've collected all my tears in a bottle. You have recorded it. Everyone in your book all means all.

[Mark Gerson]

That's right.

[Jenny Yurch]

This is such a good book. It's called God Was Right. Can we end with grandparents? The importance of grandparents. I have 13.

[Mark Gerson]

I'd love to. Absolutely.

[Jenny Yurch]

Grandmothering, Future orientation. The science here is really cool.

[Mark Gerson]

What a great place to end, Jenny. Yeah. So, okay, so today's Thursday. So tomorrow will be Friday. And Friday night is Shabbat. Friday night begins Shabbat. So my family, like. Like lots of Jewish families will have Shabbat dinner. Shabbat dinner is the most special time of the week. I mean, and I have a section in the book on work and rest. And I talk about Shabbat and one of the. And I'm kind of doing it now because part of keeping Shabbat is anticipating Shabbat. Looking forward to it all week. And Jenny, you brought it out. I'm looking forward to it tomorrow night because I look forward to it every week. And one of the things we do at the beginning of the Shabbat dinner is we bless our children. It's a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful. It's a beautiful thing I look forward to all week. We give our children a blessing. Okay, so what is the blessing? The blessing we give our girls is maybe like Sarah, Rebecca, Rachel and Leah. The blessing we give our boys is, may you be like Ephraim and Menashe. It's like, that's strange. It's like, if you were to say, how did the Jews bless their boys on Shabbat, in whose memory you might say, I'll only guess. Abraham, Moses, Isaac. Go, David. No, wrong. We do it with Ephraim and Menashe. So who are Ephraim and Menashe? Ephraim and Manasseh are fairly obscure characters in the Bible. Neither of them ever say anything. They are the children of Joseph and who never say anything. So why do we bless our children like Ephraim and Menashe? What can we learn from Ephraim and Menashe? Well, the biblical blessing for Ephraim and Menashe that we are modeling, that we are imitating on Friday night is from Joseph's father, Jacob. It's the blessing of a grandfather. So the blessing that we give our children is the blessing of a grandfather. So that leads us to ask, why are we giving our children the blessing of a grandfather? And one of the things we learned from that, just the fact in and of itself. There are a lot we can learn from it. I go through in the book. But the fact in and of itself shows just how important grandparenthood is. And grandparenthood in the Torah in the Bible, it's not about, or it's not only about getting your kids presents and having fun with them. That's part of it, but it's much more important. It's also about educating your children. The Bible tells us, educate your children and your children's children. So grandparents have this sacred role in the Bible of the preservation of Jewish memory, of education of the children. And also when we bless our children with the blessing of a grandparent, we're giving them the blessing of pure and total love. Why is this interesting? It's interesting for A few reasons. One is that when. So Jacob has two names in the Bible, Jacob and Israel. And when he's called Israel, which he is called Israel, when he blesses Ephraim and Manasseh, and whenever he's referred to in his capacity as a grandparent, he's called Israel. Why is that important? Because in early Exodus, we see that Jacob came, but Israel is coming. In other words, Israel is the name for future orientation, teaching us that a good grandparent, and we all know this for, from, from having good grandparents, from our parents being my case, great grandparents, wonderful grandparents. I mean, it's that they're future oriented. Is that a good grandparent does not tell his or her grandchild. Back in the day, things were so much better. Like, no grandchild wants to hear that. What they say is, what's going on in your life? What's new in your world? Tell me about what you're doing. So the grandparent models future orientation, which is such an important thing, as we know from modern social science and experience, for anybody and anything in all endeavors. So we give our children the blessing of a grandparent. Now, there are only eight species in the world in which there are grandparents. Eight out of millions and millions. The grandparents are very rare. So why are grandparents rare? Well, most parents in the animal kingdom die when they're done childbearing. But there are only a few exceptions. And the most prominent exception, of course, is human beings. So human beings have grandparents, and we've had grandparents for a very long time. I mean, obviously for a shorter period or a longer period now than previously. But grandparents have been around and they've been so important that the Bible gives them this really elevated, elevated status and responsibility. So, you know, Jenny, you talked about a section in the book on the grandmother hypothesis, which is that what is the evolutionary function that grandparents serve is that a. A child, a father, and a mother can have more children. If usually the mother's mother takes care of the children because then she's free to forage, she's free to have more kids. So grandparents liberate children to have more kids. This is the grandmother hypothesis. The hypothesis asks the question, this is a social science from 1998. The hypothesis asks the question, why are there human grandparents? And the answer is because they make it easier for parents to have more kids and to take care of the kids they have. So grandparents have a sacred function in the Torah and in modern life, a rare function in the animal kingdom. And what can we learn from grandparents? We can learn just what the Bible tells us. Which is the importance of future orientation and the importance of pure love and the role that a grandparent has in. And we all see this in the studies, which is that kids who learn future orientation from their grandparents or others do vastly better as adult adults around a whole variety of things. Things. So we should model our children the love of a grandparent future orientation and, and encourage the grandparent grandchild relationship because it's so special and so important.

[Jenny Yurch]

And that goes right in line with the epidemic of loneliness. And you talk about then how this is good for the grandparents as well. They maintain their verbal fluency and cognitive abilities better and longer than those who do not engage with their grandkids. 72% of grandparents say that being a grandparent is the single most important and satisfying thing in their life lives. Which is remarkable because they're also parents and they don't pick that. They pick being grandparents. And even in that section you talk about always have something to look forward to. So you're talking about the Sabbath. You're talking about rest. And that's in the book too.

[Mark Gerson]

Oh, I'm so glad you brought that up, Jenny. Yeah. If you say, like, what's the biblical key to happiness? Probably give three or four things. That would be right up there. Always have something to look forward to. And as, as Jews, we have the Sabbath. It's Thursday. I can't wait till Friday night. But we always have the Sabbath. We have so many other things too. And this is what. And, and this also shows that grandparents who have close relations with their grandchildren live longer because they're always something to look forward to. Like, I'm going to make it to your wedding. I'm going to make it to the confirmation. I want to see how you do in your career. I want to help you as you develop into your career. Always be future oriented. Always be looking to the future. I remember my, my wife and I and our kids, our whole family was. We were very close with Dr. Ruth. She passed away over the summer at age 96, and she would come over for Shabbat almost every week. And one of the many things we learned from Dr. Ruth, the quintessential text person. We learned a lot from what she taught us, but really we learned the most from the, the, the example she set. And the model that my wife and I and our children learned from her was Dr. Ruth would be in her. She was in her 90s and she would always tell us about a new project she was working on.

[Jenny Yurch]

Wow. Yes. And there's science behind that because that blue Zones. Dan Buettner, he talks about how in these places where people live the longest is they don't retire. They don't even have the word retire in their vocabulary.

[Mark Gerson]

Beautifully put. Exactly. And that's what Dr. Ruth said. So I remember when I have this in the book, I think at one Shabbat dinner, Dr. Ruth comes over. Dr. Ruth, Zen, probably in her early 90s. And so she's over, and a friend of ours who was in his late 60s is over. And so she said to him, what do you do? He said, I just retired from being a cantor. So she looks at him, this Fierce look from Dr. Rus. She looks at him and says. And she says to him, you cannot retire. You can rewire, but you cannot retire. And Dr. Ruth never retired when even into her 90s, she was telling us about a new documentary, a new book, a new trip. She was taking a new class. She was teaching at Yale or at Princeton and. Or Columbia. And there was always something new, something exciting in her life. And she modeled future orientation. She was also a wonderful grandmother and just a wonderful hero and a Jewish hero, an American hero. And she modeled so much for us in future orientation and anticipation. She was always looking to the future and always anticipating what was next, what was new, regardless of her physical condition. She was such a hero and such a model, and we learned so much from her.

[Jenny Yurch]

Mark, this is one of my favorite books I've ever, ever read. I mean, I just. I, like, devoured it.

[Unknown Speaker]

I loved it so much.

[Jenny Yurch]

You even talk about the signs of clothing. A wardrobe of happy clothes can be an antidote again against ever feeling miserable. And they talk about, like, the different frequencies of, like, wool and linen and how they cancel each other out. Like, all the science, it backs up the Bible. You talk about women who are unhappy and stressed neglect over 90% of their wardrobe. You talk about reminders. You talk about how to build good qualities. You talk about. I mean, it's so good. You talk about the science of responsibility and the spiritual satisfaction. We get this book called Shop Class at Soulcraft, which I have, and I love that one. Routines and effort and work and rest and noticing that. Noticing gratitude, grudges. I mean, this is a book. It's called God Was Right. Mark, what an honor to get a chance to talk with you about this.

[Mark Gerson]

What a great conversation. No, thank you, Jenny. I so appreciate it.

[Jenny Yurch]

I loved it. We always end our show with, real quick, the same question. And the question is, what's a favorite memory from your childhood that was outside.

[Mark Gerson]

Oh, favorite memory of my Childhood that was outside. Oh, wow. It's such a great question. And because. Because the thing that I'm thinking of, the first memory that comes to mind really supports what you were saying about no small things. So I remember I was probably four. And again, it gets the question, like, why do you remember these things, right? So I was 4. I was with my beloved grandmother at her swim club, and I couldn't find a sneaker, right? And I remember like. Like I can't find my sneaker. And. And then I remember going home and I said to my mother, I was so sad. And I was. I was even a little ashamed. I can't find my sneaker. And she's like, okay, we'll get you new sneakers. It's okay. People lose things. Don't worry about it. No problem. And I remember being so relieved. But now. And, but looking back on it, I'm thinking, why did I care so much about losing a sneaker? But then you realize as a child, one of the things that children don't understand is perspective. And one of the things that adults can do is provide that perspective and that little story. To me, maybe it's not a little story because I'm talking about it now. I'm 52 now. This is 48 years ago. You know, it's. There's, there's no small thing. It's not. But. But in that moment, I. I saw the love of my mother and my grandmother, of course. But also just putting things in perspective. And so of course, those of us who are parents know that kids can't put things in perspective because they don't have enough life experience to compare one thing to the other about. But I also think it's a truth that we adults can learn. Because, you know, Jenny, this is what you said before we. You quoted from the book Acquire for yourself a friend. Because very, very often it's hard for even adults to put things in perspective. So what can we do when we have a concern or a worry? Go to a real friend and say, I'm concerned about this. I'm worried about it. Maybe even I'm fearful of it. And then let's see what our friend says. The odds are they're going to say, let's put things in perspective. It's not as big a deal as you make it. You're going to be okay.

[Jenny Yurch]

Everything we say and do is likely more important than we realize. So just that response, response, that response from your mom when you were worried, and that made such an impact on you. You start every day by studying the Torah on the treadmill for an hour, you do six miles. Get a little slower every year you have this amazing gratitude section at the end of the book, the gratitude section at the end because you talk about gratitude in the book and I was like, you're like. I would like to thank the manufacturers of the treadmill. I would like to thank whoever made Google, Google Docs in Zoom and Chat GPT and Amazon Kindle, whoever invented double speed on audio and video fil.

[Mark Gerson]

God bless that person. Yeah, but I really mean that because I, I, I study so I run every day, six miles a day and, and I study the Torah on the treadmill and really thank God for the blessings of technology. There's so much really rich audio and video teaching of the Bible, but in double speed I'm able to learn twice as much. So I'm totally grateful to whomever and invent a double speed because whoever that person is is really responsible for what I've been able to learn and I'm so grateful for that.

[Jenny Yurch]

Mark, this has been such an honor. Just a reminder, all of the proceeds go to African Michigan Healthcare and you can join in with Eagles Wing Eagle Wings on Tour Tuesdays, a network of 10,000 plus fast and fast growing churches. And this is an excellent opportunity to learn more. Mark, thank you so much for being here.

[Mark Gerson]

Thank you, Jenny. What a great conversation. I so appreciate it.

[Unknown Speaker]

Do you want to learn the Bible in a way that's encouraging, surprising and even entertaining? Check out the Bible Stories podcast. Each week Bible Stories brings you classics, you know, and hidden gems that you might have missed. Have you ever heard about the time that King David fought a giant and he lost? Or when Paul preached so long a guy fell asleep he tumbled out a window and had to be brought back to life? Did you know that God himself buried Moses and that Michael the Archangel and the devil fought over Moses body? Yeah, it gets wild. So tune in for storytelling that's biblical, insightful and a lot of fun. Subscribe today to Bible Stories with Matt Mullins and Todd Hammons, available wherever you get your podcasts.