← The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
1KHO 502: How to Live While You Wait | DawnChere Wilkerson, Slow Burn
01:01:37
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1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Urch. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside and I just read a wonderful book that has so many nature references in it, but also talks about the hard. The hard parts of life and the waiting. And the book is called Slow Burn, which is such a cool title and it's got this like, wisp of smoke coming out. The COVID is really cool. The work and wonder of the wait and the author, Dawn Cherie Wilkerson is here. Welcome.
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A
Thank you. It's so good to be with you. I appreciate your voice and your encouragement in all of our homes in our lives.
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B
Oh, thank you for saying that. So this is launch week for you and that's always an exciting time. It's a busy time. Like I would imagine you're probably kind of tired.
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A
Yeah, it's been a lot of like, beautiful conversations. And then I just flew in from Atlanta and so it's a full week, but I've got four babies, so life is full. You just gotta flow.
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B
Yeah, yeah. You have a lot going on. So this book talks. There were so many nature references and also so many song references. Really interesting, those special things about this book that, you know, I haven't really seen in a lot of other books. And also you talk really openly about your infertility journey, which is an a topic that's so pertinent to so many. And we've actually never really talked about that on here. So I thought was wonderful that you put that out there for people to read, for people to relate to or to learn how to relate to those in their life that are struggling through infertility. So I mean, this is a wonderful, wonderful book. It's called Slow Burn. I want to start off with this super random part that kind of changed my life. Like it changed my life. Dontry, come on. Here we go. I've never heard of this study. There was some sort of a study where they put prosthetic facial scars on people, fake scars, and then have them go out into the world and interact with these fake scars. Can you tell the story? I mean, this was like it sort of blew my mind as to sort of how we think we're being presented to the world and how the way we think about it affects our interactions.
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A
Yes. Well, there was a study done where fake prosthetic scars were placed on people's faces, and they knew that they were placed on their face. What they didn't know is once they saw it and they continued to perfect it, the makeup artists actually removed it. And so then they asked them to go about, you know, their day interacting with people. And when they got feedback on how people treated them, many of the people felt like they had been treated differently because of the scars on their face. But what they didn't know is that they didn't have scars on their face. They had just seen the scar application, and then they were in their head and really thinking, oh, people are treating me differently. But people didn't see anything different. And I think when it comes to our lives, we all have tender spots in our life that can be painful. When we feel like they're exposed, they can be tender. Especially, you know, when we're reeling from disappointment in life. It might be infertility, it might be a failure, it might be a disbelief, disappointment of unmet expectations. But so often we can allow the pain in our life or the scars in our life or the wounds in our life to make us think that everyone sees it and that everyone is reacting to it when really, there's an opportunity for inner healing for us. And we can isolate because we think everyone's judging us by the things that we're walking through or the labels that we put on our life. But when we pull back, we rob ourselves of. Of part of the healing process, which is community, people, family, friends. We need each other. And, you know, for me, that study just showed me how powerful my thoughts are and how often my perspective can be skewed by what I know is going on in my life.
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B
I thought that was such a powerful thing. The way that you feel like you're being presented to the world and the way that you feel about it can actually really change your interactions and the way you feel about those interactions. You wrote, a negative belief can lead to a negative interpretation of a neutral interaction. The way you see yourself will dictate how others see you. If you feel a stigma for your scars, you will carry it into every space in your life, even when it is unseen to others. That was, like, really powerful. I've never heard of that. And it made me think about, like, when I go into different interactions, what sort of baggage Am I carrying and even know to sort of sort that through and think about it. All right, now that we've gotten that out of the way, I love it. Let's go back to the beginning. I just love that part of the book. I loved so many parts of the book. Introduce yourself. Just a brief introduction. I know you're a pastor in Miami. You have been for a very long time. So tell us all about Don Cherie.
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Yeah, I'm from Shreveport, Louisiana and I'm originally one of seven kids. My parents are my heroes. I love them. My dad's a football coach, he's a pastor. And my mom wrote children's songs growing up. Hundreds of children's songs that really became like the soundtrack of my life. Just teaching me like emotional intelligence, but also just locking that perspective in my heart through catchy melodies that have stayed. 40 years later. And about close to 20 years ago, I moved to Miami with my husband. We've been married 19 years this year. And I love Miami. I love this city, I love all the different cultures. I love nature. I'm looking outside, died at hundreds of trees right now. And it's just the best. It's hot, it's hot. But I'm from Louisiana, so that's okay. And then I went through eight years of infertility with my husband. And during those eight years of infertility, it was actually a life defining season for me because it was transformational. It's where my faith deepened. It's where I really realized that you don't have to wait to reach a goal line to really live. I think waiting often we think it's seasonal, like, oh, I'm just in a waiting season that I came to the revelation that like waiting is life. You just keep moving those goal posts, you're waiting on one thing, you get it, you start waiting for the next thing. And so I had to ask myself, am I going to live in the wait? Am I going to value every day and try to find the work, what's worthy of my time and investment and focus? Then also will I wake into the wonder, you know, you know, just the, the grace that's given us moment by moment, day by day. So that's a little bit about me. I've got four babies now after eight years of infertility. I've got a seven year old boy named Wyatt, five year old son named Wild. And he's Wild. I've got a three year old baby girl named Waylon. And I four months ago gave birth to my birth. His name is Wolfgang.
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B
Okay. I didn't realize the kids were that young. Wow.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And you're in the middle of launching a book. Let's go.
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Well, I was writing the book when I had the surprise pregnancy, so God was kind and let me, you know, give birth to two babies this year.
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Wow. Wow. I love all the names, all the W names. Our youngest is Winnie, so she was.
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I love that name.
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She would fit right in with your crew. Okay, so you talk about this. You say, the day that you were born, she born with all these kids in your family. The day you're born, your parents gave you a life scripture. I've actually never heard of this. So before we talk about your life scripture, just. Did they do that for every kid? Were the scriptures different for each kid?
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A
Yeah, I think they put purpose on each one of our births, whether it be a song or a scripture or a phrase or a word. They just put purpose and gave us language that brought a lot of strength to our lives. It's beautiful.
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B
I've actually never heard of that. Did you do that, something similar with your own kids?
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Yeah, I did it with my first two, primarily. I. I think, like, we call Wyatt the Brave and Wild the Courageous. I didn't give them specific scriptures, but I do have, like, a playlist for each of them of songs that were. Were really key in that season of carrying them and then also meeting them for the first time.
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B
I love that sentiment. Sentimentality. I don't. That might not be a word.
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A
It sounded great to me.
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B
And the sort of. The purposefulness of that, like, I missed the boat, but I'm like, that's a really good idea. So maybe someone listening, because the scripture that they gave you, it turned out to be something that was really, really applicable. It actually is a lot of the theme of this book, Slow Burn, the one for you is, they who wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings like eagles. They shall run and not be weary. They shall walk and not faint. Yeah, I'm thinking of the song.
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Yes.
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Teach me, Lord. Teach me, Lord. Wait. There's a song I don't know.
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There is.
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B
That's in my mind from childhood, I think. So this whole point of waiting and you. I love that you said you love nature because there's so many nature references in this book, and one of them was the one about the eagles. So this is your birthday verse, basically, and I guess I didn't really know all that much about eagles. Can you talk about the parallels between the soaring Eagle in the strength of that versus working hard and hustling and that type of thing.
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A
Yeah, I think the eagle speaks a lot of strength in my life, especially the last few years with kids, because the eagle is this, you know, regal, regal bird, and we know, very large and beautiful. But as you see the eagle soar, it doesn't beat its wings frequently, like many other large birds do in order to maintain flight. Instead, eagles soar by catching the wind. And when they catch the wind, they actually stop beating their wings and they glide, and they continue to soar using the air currents. And they can soar for just extended periods of time, never moving their wings. And you watch other birds, and it takes so much effort, and they have to rest more because they're exhausting themselves by the exertion of effort. But the eagle can soar longer because they're not using their own willpower. Instead, they're using the wind current to allow them to soar. And I think so often in our lives, like, we can exhaust ourselves, just wear ourselves out by just using our willpower, working our guts out. But when we talk about nature, when I go outside, it's a reminder to me of how big God is and that he's worthy of my trust. And that even though I can't see the wind, it carries this majestic being, the eagle, to heights that it could never reach alone. And I think, so it is in our lives. You know, I firmly believe that. That we were created with a purpose, that we have a destiny before we're born. And it's not just based on our own willpower, our own ideas, or even our own strength. But that scripture I was given, it was spoken by a prophet. His name is Isaiah. And he says, they that wait upon the Lord, they'll renew their strength. They'll mount up with wings like eagles. They'll run and not grow weary. They'll walk and not faint. So for me, I'm still learning it, but I want to continue to wait on God to be still. Whether it's going outside, sitting underneath the tree, or letting the grass be felt in my toes, or going for a walk with my family. When I get off my phone, when I stop just trying to hustle, it's often those waiting moments of being still and being aware of the greatness of God, that I am renewed, I'm refreshed, and I'm given strength that's not my own.
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B
The things that you wrote about the eagle, which I guess I didn't totally know. I mean, I guess if I were to think about it, And I've seen an eagle in the air. You don't ever see it flap its wings. But I hadn't thought about that. They are just soaring. And you wrote, they can glide for hours, not because of rigorous effort, but by surrendering to and relying on the power of the wind, they utilize the wind. The eagle flies above the storm.
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Yeah.
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B
I was like, oh, that's so interesting. And you were talking about. In that section about the eagle, like, how you get what you need when you need it. And there was a story about some girl, you know, she. She wants the thing. And the dad says, well, when do you. When do I give you your money for your train ticket? You know, do I give it to you three weeks ahead? And she's like, no, you get it right when you need that. And I just thought that the parallels there. You just had so many nature parallels. God will prove to be faithful and be your strength in the most desperate seasons of life. Another parallel that was dealing with the nature was about the century plant, which I never heard about. But before we get to that, you wrote, in college, I took a class on ornamental horticulture. I was like, wait, I've never. I didn't even know that was a class. I don't even totally know what that is. So start there. What was that class like? Why did you take it?
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A
Okay. It was summer school, and I didn't want to take the normal science. And there was this sweetest, older professor who taught this ornamental horticulture. Try to say that five times quickly, class. And I loved it. It's the study of plants. And so we were planting gardens. I had to learn some landscaping, and I learned about this plant, and it just blew my mind because I'd seen it everywhere, the century plants, like this low bush. But then, like, after time, it can spring up just out of nowhere. It can live at that size for years. And out of nowhere, it springs up and it can go, I think, almost 40ft high. And it's beautiful. And it's such a reminder to me that I don't know what God's placed inside of me. And I can trust his timing that at the appointed time, you know, there are harvests that I don't even know are waiting for me. And I think a lot of times you can look at your own life. Like we look at that plant and go, oh, you're always going to be like that. This is just the reality of your life. But you don't really know what God has planned for you. We just have to keep trusting him and keep seeking him. And yeah, I think there's so many beautiful revelations of truth that are hidden all throughout. Not even hidden. They're revealed in nature. It's beautiful. So when you say the eagle soars above the storm. Yeah. That speaks straight to my heart. Because he doesn't lower, he goes higher. And that's how I want to live my life. When things get chaotic, I don't want to like focus in on the issue. I want to zoom out. I want to get a bigger picture. I want to get a higher perspective and so all around us. That's what I do. I love the way you encourage us in our homes because I think it's so important to be outside. I think my husband's made me fall in love with that. He's big on it. There's. There is no option on the weekend we are outside. I got home from the gym this weekend and he had all four kids, including the four month old in the car ready. He's like, babe, shower because we're leaving. We're going to the beach right now. He was ready. Because it connects you with each other, with God, with your heart and the stillness and the beauty and the warmth of the sun. All of it. It's supernatural. And I don't think that's happenstance. I think God orchestrated it that way.
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And made all these things that you can find and learn from.
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So cool.
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So we're in Michigan. So we're like way far north of you. I came to Miami, actually. One, I've only been there once. And I was going on a cruise with this organization in Florida called fpea. And it was incredibly, incredibly hot. But just like really cool, cool area. And we were even there. It was like off. Not in the hot season. I think we were there like in January, but coming from Michigan and you're buried in snow. So. Been down in Miami one time and you know there's all these palm trees everywhere. And that's one of the things you talk about in this book. But when you talk about these beautiful truths in nature and I've never heard of the century plant, now we're just starting to plant here in Michigan. Like, the season is just starting. I know it's different all over the country and all over the world, but like, all the seeds are different. And you know, God could have made them all the same. Like, why not have them all look the same? But they're, they're so unique. Some of them look like. I mean, they're so small you can hardly see them. And some of them are huge. And some of them look like a little fan. I mean, the difference in the, the seed. Some of them look like nothing. If it fell on the floor, you wouldn't even know it was a seed. It's like God has all of these different things going on and you can learn from the different things. So I'd never heard of a century plant and what a lesson. It's the same size for 10 to 30 years and then it grows. And within a month it could be 28ft tall. And that's kind of like what your book is about. Like you could be like waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting for 10 to 30 years. And then like in a month, yeah, maybe it all changes.
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A
Yeah, there's no limit. I, I don't believe there's a limit to what God can do because he operates outside of time, so not constrained by it. Time is like his tool. And I think nature reveals so much truth for us in our lives. So even you said, like the seeds. I don't know a lot about seeds, but what I do know about seeds really builds my life. And that's that it has to be planted where you can't see it first. It needs to be in healthy soil. So your community matter. It's not just you and your spouse. It's not just you and your kids. Like, the people around you, your relationships, they're impacting how you grow and how you flourish. It's undeniable. The impact of your community and the soil that you choose to be planted in. And then also just the idea that if you keep replanting, eventually the plant dies. Like, there has to be a commitment to work things out in relationship. When we have a shallow understanding of relationship. And maturity can make us think that the right decision is to just go find a new group of friends. But I think maturity says, I want to work this out, and maybe we can both come out better on the other side of this conversation. And so when I look at soil, when I look at seeds, I'm reminded, just because I don't see change around me doesn't mean that there's not change happening on the inside of me. And I really deeply believe that that's the most important transformation in our life, is what people don't see. Society now is so addicted to instant publication and everything you think and everything you see being captured and then shared. But that's not where transformation happens. It's when you hold it and you wrestle with it and you ponder and you allow your thoughts to be surrendered to God. And then you watch those thoughts start to be shaped and become a message that you can eventually have something worthwhile to share with someone. I guess that's the story of my book, because this book, I say it, it took me 40 years to write it. I had the title 10 years ago. But I'm so grateful that I waited, because in the last decade is when the book was really written. Just through living.
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B
Yeah. I mean, what if you're like the ornamental horticulture centric plant? I mean, it really could be that. And God didn't have to do it that way. No, he could have made it so that every seed you plant in three days, it, you know, it grows. But they all have different germination rates. And some of them are like, you have to put them in the cold for a little bit. Like, there's all of these idiosyncrasies to the different seeds. And then you wrote, you had this Beautiful phrase by C.S. lewis, Holy places are dark places because we sow seeds in the dark. We sow em in the dark times. They have to be in that dark in order to grow. And you also talked about sowing tears that you had Bell's palsy in 10th grade. And you still have an eye that'll water sometimes, but that. That are tears. The Bible actually uses those words that you sow in tears and you reap in joy. I mean, it's nature reference after nature reference. One of them is the palm trees, which we should probably talk about since you live in Miami.
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A
Yes.
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B
I've never really thought about this because we don't have them in Michigan. But you get these crazy hurricanes, and they're still there.
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A
Yeah, it's wild. Like, God knew what he was doing when he placed different plants in different habitats. And I just think about right now, we have a bingo game that I play with my kids. And it's like different habitats, you know, so it's like the savannah and then it's like the ocean, and it's like a garden. You know, you're getting all these boxes that you're fitting it according to the squares that you have. And I think when it comes to Miami and any other tropical place, God knew what he was doing when he filled it with a million palm trees. Because living here for 18 years now, like, I've seen storms roll through. And the crazy thing is, is that their roots are so strong that yet their trunks are so flexible that buildings that were built to last are completely decimated. And then standing right next to them are the palm trees. The leaves are gone, but they're still standing. And the leaves are going to come back. And it's like, wow, God. It's no accident that you say those that are planted in your house, they're going to flourish. That like the palm tree. It's because that's how you created it. You're the engineer and you've engineered me. And so that's encouraging to me because storms of life come and we go through difficult seasons in our families. I can know, Lord, you've given me the ability as a mom to be flexible, to discern what's needed, and then sometimes just to hold on and know this is gonna pass and God is going to sustain us. He's going to get us through it.
- [25:45]
B
You had wrote that they not only withstand the storms, but then they also grow from them. It makes them stronger. So so many different little bits. I mean, it was so much nature in the book. Yay. One of them was about the fact that you're looking for a harvest. You're out with your kids, you're like, oh, And I've had this in my life. Right. Like, those people have, you know, mulberries. They have a mulberry tree. Wouldn't it be nice?
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A
Yes.
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B
And so you're with your kids and, like, you got a neighbor and they've got cherries or, you know, something. It's something in your yard, like star cherries. I wish we had that. And then it turns out you did, but you didn't know it. So you're talking about missed harvest.
- [26:20]
A
Yes.
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B
Like something might be there that you're not noticing.
- [26:23]
A
Yeah. And I mean, that's the crazy thing about life, right? It's. Things are right underneath our nose, and we can be so focused on, like, what we don't have, but we have enough. We have what we need. And I really do believe that innovation comes from limitation. So often that when we feel like, oh, this is all I have to work with, that that's where the creativity kicks in. If you had endless resources, it'd probably be a little hard to figure out where to start, where to end, what you're going to do. But now you know your ingredients. What can we do today? The other day, we sat outside and we painted leaves that had fallen down that were dead in the grass. It's like, well, we don't have, like, this fancy paper or anything, but I think a leaf is a pretty cool thing to paint. And I just find that the limitations in life are often exactly what we need. And so it is just as we look all throughout nature, it's like that. I'm not limited. I have exactly what I need here.
- [27:24]
B
And now you wrote, I wonder what hidden harvest is right under your nose. Even while we're hoping for a particular kind of fruit and God brings other kinds our way, I mean, it actually is really true. Like, so we haven't gardened for very long, but the. I learned that sometimes things just pop up. You know, it was like you planted sunflowers, and so some of the animals will scatter them. And, like, over in that one spot, all of a sudden there's a sunflower, and they're called volunteers. I guess, like, it just volunteered. Up it came. I didn't put it there. And, like, that's the whole thing. Like, you're, oh, I'm waiting for this, but that over there that I didn't plant or didn't know about is beautiful. And you wrote, the harvest is there. Sometimes it's just hidden in the familiar. I'm gonna hit one more here, but before we do that, do you wanna tell Us about when you had to get rescued while you were mountain climbing. Yeah.
- [28:13]
A
Oh my goodness. Okay. So I was studying in Cambridge with my husband and that was a whole experience in and of itself. It's rainy there. It was the spring semester and I rode a bike to class every day. And I just got used to like. I mean, you're used to it. I'm not. I'm like a Louisiana Miami girl. So the rain boots, the warm jacket was like a uniform. I just wear the same thing every day. And one day they took us to the Lakes district in England and we decided to go mountain climbing. So they put me in the harness and I start climbing, but I'm climbing as if I'm not in a harness. In my mind, because I was not familiar with this whole whole concept. I am clinging to the rocks and my fingers are just getting raw because I feel like I am holding myself up and I get halfway up and then it starts snowing like a blizzard starts just coming. And now I can't even see anybody. Well, I, I not grown up with snow. You know, at the first sign of sleep, we all the schools were canceled. Like this is not a part of my experience. I start crying on the side of the mountain. I'm a grown woman college student. I, I freeze. And the guide had to come up and he had to help me down. And the whole time I have a harness on. The whole time I'm safe. The whole time I'm secure. It's just that I literally couldn't get past the belief that, no, this is all on me. So that was an adventure I'll never forget.
- [29:42]
B
Yeah, what an adventure. I, I did a rappelling, which is like, I guess the opposite of mountain climbing where you're like coming back down. Anyway, same thing. It was actually horrible. I like tipped and then I was like laying in the air and then I couldn't release myself and I was screaming anyway. And the, the guide said, we've never had this before anyway, that would be.
- [30:05]
A
Me.
- [30:07]
B
Do that again. But my daughter liked it. So there's a lot of adventures out there. One more that you talk about, and this is a separate topic that comes up in the book a whole lot, but it relates with nature. And I guess I've not really thought about this too much. But you talk about the music of creation and that really changed my view. Dantree, because, well, I'm like not that great of a singer. And also I do play the piano, but like that you talk about how this is actually a unit. I never really thought about in terms of, like, it's a universal thing. So you're talking about the whales, and people know that birds sing. But you were like, no, like mothers around the world, they sing to their babies. And you wrote, God has engineered music to heal. I guess I've never really combined it with the thought of, like, music and nature.
- [30:52]
A
Yeah, I think that they are so beautifully intertwined. Think about the songs that the birds sing and then the other ones that I list in the book. I mean, it's like you go throughout nature and there's so many different sounds all layering on each other. Just like an engineer in a studio would, like, just line upon line, put a different sound. I walk outside and I hear the rustle of the wind going through the leaves. It's beautiful. I hear animals scurrying. I hear birds singing. I have peacocks in my neighborhood. Believe it or not, peacocks are loud all around my neighborhood, they are so loud. But then it's been proven for us as humans that when we hum, when we sing, it affects our internal faith. And so there's no surprise that as a mother, you know, this mother, this singing, the sing song style of talking while kind of humming and singing to our children, we know it suits them. It does something for them. It brings peace to them. It makes them feel secure. It does something for them that goes beyond just talking to them. And so I think music is a very powerful tool in our homes. There are certain soundtracks that I love to play. You know, there's certain artists that my children love to listen to. And it's more than just memorizing. No, these melodies, they're. They're leaving a mark. And 10, 20, 30 years from now, it's going to be amazing. I recalled a song and sang it word for word for rich. We were dying laughing. It was a song from Les Mis. I probably hadn't sung it in, like, 20 years. But that's the power of music. And so even in education and learning, I think it's a powerful tool.
- [32:38]
B
Well, that's wild, because when I started to read that verse, they that wait upon the Lord showing you their strength, they shall mount up. I'm like, I'm hearing it as a song.
- [32:46]
A
Yeah.
- [32:46]
B
I must have learned it when I was a kid. And then at the end it said, teach me, Lord Teach me, Lord, to wait.
- [32:50]
A
Wow.
- [32:50]
B
Isn't that interesting? Well, you talked about it in terms of dementia that, like, you. You talk about, like, the song of our heart when our memory fails and I have a dear friend Whose mother in law had a. A butterfly tumor. So it was like a tumor that went on both hemispheres of the brain. And she was just a beautiful singer. And I was able to go over to her home a couple times toward the end of her life and just play the piano there. They had a piano, and she would sing the hymns.
- [33:15]
A
That's beautiful. Yeah. Transcends language, understanding, memory. I can't wait to know the depths of it. In eternity. We won't have questions then, but in the here and now, it's still a tool that we can hold and start to discover the beauty of it. I think it. It goes the other way. Right. There's a lot of music that probably isn't putting the right messages in our hearts. And sometimes I can get those just playing over and over in my mind, and I'm like, why am I thinking this? It's like, because the hook of that melody is just stuck in my head. I don't want to sing this phrase. I don't want to be thinking about this. The power. The power of music. It's intriguing and I think it's a powerful tool in our homes.
- [33:59]
B
Yeah. You wrote, singing can assist in the remediation of speech, since the neural pathways for speech and melody run parallel in the body. I didn't know that. That's so fascinating. God has engineered music to heal, and then he wrote this. Perhaps you do not consider yourself musical, but I am telling you, that is worth reconsidering. I thought that whole part was really interesting, and especially because you tied it to nature. From birds to whales, animals have distinct, distinct, innate melodic songs.
- [34:27]
A
Yeah.
- [34:27]
B
That they use for all sorts of things. And this part about music. Okay, so this. I was like, I really could take a whole hour with you and just have you sing me songs. That's kind of what I wanted. I was like, we've never met.
- [34:41]
A
That would be a blast.
- [34:42]
B
She's gonna be like, you're weird. But I was like, okay. So your dad, you grow up on a tour bus. I mean, music has been a part of your life since you were really young. With all these kids, you're on this tour bus. You, your grandfather before that, dire poverty. But you end up having this, you know, legacy of faith in your family. So your dad grew up on the road?
- [35:01]
A
My dad and mom, yeah.
- [35:04]
B
Unbelievable. And you had this wonderful thing you wrote about your dad. He pastored in Shreveport, Louisiana. You wrote he was a pastor, not only to a congregation, but to the city. I thought that was really, really powerful. And then, oh, maybe this is your grandpa.
- [35:19]
A
Yeah.
- [35:20]
B
Your grandpa would run to the piano if he's worried about something. He would say, I'm not going to worry about that. And he would run to the piano and he would sing one of his favorite hymns at the top of his lungs. So this music piece is running all the way through your family. Are you starting to feel a little numb to it yet? This wild ride of life we've lived lately, AI coming for jobs and the market bouncing around like a yo yo is. It's no wonder so many of us are hunkering down, saving and looking for ways to protect our futures. One way you may have forgotten about is through the right life insurance policy. You've heard of life insurance, but did you know it's cheaper than you think? The younger you are, the cheaper it is. Like double the price if you wait to buy a decade from now. That's why I'm looking for a life insurance policy today with Select Quote. Select Quote takes the guesswork out of finding the right life insurance policy. You don't have to sort through dozens of confusing options on your own. Instead, one of their licensed agents will find the right policy at the right price for you. Comparing plans from trusted top rated insurance companies to find a policy that fits your health, your lifestyle and your budget. And they work for you for free. Life insurance is never cheaper than it is today. Get the right life insurance for you for less and save more than 50%@SelectQuote.com 1000 hours save more than 50% on term life insurance@SelectQuote.com 1000 hours today to get started. That's SelectQuote.com 1000 hours my day kicks off with a refreshing Celsius energy drink, then straight to the gym, pre K pickup back home to meal prep time for my fire station shift. One more Celsius. Gotta keep the lights on when the three alarm hits. I'm ready. Celsius Live Fit. Go grab a cold refreshing Celsius at your local retailer or locate now@celsius.com it's.
- [37:08]
A
Summer time to enjoy long days, lazy.
- [37:11]
B
Nights and great food.
- [37:12]
A
Because Uber Eats has deals all summer long. So when hunger strikes, don't sweat it. Delicious deals are just a Tap away on UberEats. Enjoy all your favorite grocery items delivered straight to you. Get ice cream soda and snacks from your favorite stores like Wegmans and cvs and make the most of every moment. Now that sounds like a good summer order now on UberEats Terms apply. Product availability varies by region.
- [37:37]
B
See app for details and There was all these songs that you brought up, like ones that your mom wrote or your dad writes a song for you.
- [37:45]
A
Yes.
- [37:46]
B
Or a Christmas play. Okay, so. So explain to me really, what's going on. Okay. Your dad has a Christmas musical, and you're in it, and you've. You perform it for years in a row.
- [37:57]
A
Yes, we performed it for years. It's got to this day. They do it at that point. When I was young, we did it in the Strand Theater, this beautiful theater, like, just regal. It was stunning, and it was so much fun every year, loading into this huge theater. And then we do 10 performances, you know, over the course of a week. And my dad wrote all the music for it. And so it's been running for decades in our town. It's kind of mainstay for the Christmas season for our city. My dad, when I was a teenager, wrote a song for me to sing in it. And at that point, I was really afraid. That was my thing. I would get really insecure, and in my head, I didn't want to be in front of people. I loved to sing. I would sing in my room, you know, from morning to night. You couldn't stop the melody. That when I was in front of people, I would pick myself apart. I would feel like a failure. That wasn't perfect. I would be so stuck in my head, I couldn't really enjoy the moment. And so he asked me this thing, and I'll never forget. I was like, I can't do it. And I just think parenting had just. It's such a balance of trusting God in the moment to know when to push, like, when to press and when to rest with your kids. Like, when do I press and when do I give them a moment to breathe? And my parents were nothing but the deepest encouragers in my life. Plenty of resting moments. But this was a moment where I needed that press. My dad just. He just encouraged me. He was like, if you don't step into it, someone else will. And I went upstairs and I was, like, emotional. I'm a girl. I like crying, you know? And my mom came up and sat on my bed with me and let me cry for a while. And then she was like, your dad's not mad at you. Don't look at the situation like that. That's not the perspective to have. Your dad's not mad at you. He's talking to the warrior inside of you. Stand up and fight. And she was really speaking and confronting this fear for me and showing me how to confront fear in my life. I think as a parent, I don't want my kids to be paralyzed by fear. I want them to be risk takers. Of course. I want them to have discernment and understanding, but I don't want them to live life tip to believe. I want them to run and to run with everything they have and then the race that God's created for them. So my mom was teaching me, you actually have to fight. There is a war inside of you, but you're a warrior and you have weapons and you can fight this fear. And I decided to do it afraid. Like the heavens didn't open, angels didn't come down and go, like, you'll never be afraid again. I still fight fear to this day, but I know that I. I have the fight in me. And when I decide to fight it, I win because I just have to do it afraid. And I have to get out of my head and not think about what people think about me. I have to think about the opportunity to encourage others. And so that was a turning point in my life. My parents are singers, they're writers. My mom wrote a lot of songs that have framed my life. Like let's make a memory while we wait or Pits are the Pit. You know, I love it because I still repeat those phrases and those melodies to myself as a 40 year old. They challenge me and they encouraged me to be who God's called me to be.
- [41:04]
B
And interesting that that ties back to the scar on the face.
- [41:07]
A
Yeah.
- [41:08]
B
What do people think about me? That's why I thought that was such a powerful study, the scar one. So, okay, what is the Christmas musical called?
- [41:16]
A
Oh, it's called Songs of the Season. It loved in Shreveport, Louisiana.
- [41:21]
B
So if we go to Shreveport, Louisiana, we could go see it?
- [41:25]
A
Yeah, you could go see it in December. Yeah.
- [41:28]
B
Okay, so he writes a song for you. It's called he'll be there for you. So now somebody else sings that, obviously.
- [41:34]
A
No, I did it. I. Oh, now they do. Yeah, I sang it when I was a teenager. And now it's kind of like, you know, when something is generational, it's like lots of people have sung it. Like in the play, there's little reindeer, all the little kids with their white leotards and their nose painted their antlers and they're, you know, Christmas around the world and we laugh because my brothers, you know, they did it when they were in high school and now there's a whole nother set of high school students getting to like have their experience on a stage and have fun and make Memories together.
- [42:05]
B
Okay. And that's really cool. Then you're tied with all of those people. Like, we just met Kristen Chenoweth, who is in. Who was in Wicked, I guess.
- [42:14]
A
Yes. Oh, she's amazing.
- [42:16]
B
Amazing. And then she was in. She sings a song in that new King of Kings movie. So we got to meet her when that premiere happened, and we were so excited. But, like, you're tied to all the other people that play that role. I think it was like, well, she did. You know, I don't know. It was cool. Yes.
- [42:30]
A
It's true.
- [42:31]
B
That's what you have, like, because you did it.
- [42:33]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [42:33]
B
And you're tied to all those other people who have come after you to sing. He'll be there for you. So a couple other songs I was curious about. Your Uncle Teddy wrote a song about your verse.
- [42:43]
A
Yeah, he wrote a song called they that Wait on the Lord. They wait on the Lord. Children do their strength they shall mount up with wings like ego. And it goes on to say, they shall run and not grow weary. They shall walk and not faint. And it's verbatim. Isaiah 40:31. But then it says, teach me, Lord, to obey. And I didn't know I sang that song. Dangers of times. Teach me, Lord, to wait. Teach me, Lord, to wait. And God's like, okay, let's do it. And I'm grateful that he did, because I think that waiting on God is. It's the greatest invitation in life. We get wrapped up in all the other things, but there's no one that knows you better than the one who created you. I don't know myself like God does. When we wait on him. We just see things and things are revealed that we would have never known otherwise.
- [43:39]
B
The thread that runs through all these songs is pretty wild, Tantree. Like, your first song was called the One who Waits, and then you talked a lot about and you just brought it up, but the one your mom would sing, she wrote a ton of songs, but one of the ones was let's Make a Memory While we Wait, so. Oh, it's wild. My mom wrote a song that is the number one song in our home this year. All of these different songs, you talked about Beethoven, so I loved that part. How music. It just permeated the whole book as well. And the power of that. And it just made me think, well, I want to hear that song the whole time, and I want to hear.
- [44:14]
A
Well, if you're curious, my mom's songs are on. You know, I think they're on Spotify. I know they're on itunes. It's just called the Best Buddies Music. And she has full length videos. You'll see me with my siblings and my kids love them. And I got letters today from people on IG who just said, these songs have been the soundtrack of our home because she poured her life into these songs. It wasn't just a phase. She's in her 70s and she's still passionate about these songs. And I love it and inspires me.
- [44:45]
B
Okay. The Best Buddies music. Oh, I'm so excited about this, actually. That's fantastic. I was definitely really curious about it when I was reading the book. So I'm so thrilled that I can go through. And you talk about how, you know, all through our life, like you had these different people and you're like, Walton, Sam Walton didn't open his first Walmart until 44. And JRR Tolkien was 45 when I didn't know that, when he published the Hobbit and he didn't finish the Lord of the rings for almost 20 more years till he was 63. So there's a lot of life left to live and a lot of things that we can do with our life. And when you're talking about your infertility, which people can read about in the book Slow Burn, you talk about a couple different topics in there. You talk about the waiting and talk about the disappointment. You talk about the isolation of it, of not telling people for a while, not talking to your family about it and thinking, well, I'm just going to figure it out. I'm not going to share. And you're avoiding opening up. You talk about, like, you know, here's a false positive pregnancy test and all of that. And it was interesting at the end when it sort of comes full circle because you, you have your first three kids and then you're in your late 30s and you get pregnant for the first time without any interventions.
- [45:58]
A
Yeah.
- [45:59]
B
No medical help. And, and I think this is so human nature. Dawnsheri, you're kind of like, oh, I'm overwhelmed with thinking about bringing another child into the mix.
- [46:09]
A
It's wild. Like, it was an answer to prayer that I'd prayed for 18 years, but now the timing is making me feel out of control and overwhelmed. And so it was this moment of, like, just miraculous, like, joy. Like, God, I cannot believe I have taken so many pregnancy tests at home for 18 years. I've never had a positive one. I cannot believe that I'm pretty much seven weeks pregnant right now. But also, like, God, I did not see this coming. And we just got out of diapers, and three felt really good. And I was just feeling like a human again, like, all these things. And I was reminded, like, there's a scripture that says my cup overflows in Psalm 23. And I was just reminded of the fact that in my house, when you pour a picture and water spills out of it, it's called a mess. And so sometimes the overflow is not pretty. Sometimes it's a mess because it, like, operates outside, outside of our capacity. Otherwise it wouldn't be a miracle. And so I was looking around at this, what felt like overwhelming, and it was an overflow, but it also felt like a mess in the same sentence. And you know what? I'm so happy to be talking to you today because now we're like four months in with our precious Wolfgang. And man, you know. You know what I'm going to say what every parent says, I can't imagine life without him. And I knew that back then when I took the pregnancy test. But I think it's so important that you also bring your honesty to God. Like, God, I need you. And you know what? No better prayer has ever been said to God, because when we need him, he shows up every single time.
- [47:45]
B
My midwife says that. So many moms. And I'm like, I love the honesty of this. It's like so many moms come to her really overwhelmed and upset about being pregnant because you kind of think, like, you're the only one because you're, like, freaked out, you know, for a period of time. There's. Yeah, like, well, how is this gonna work? And where's that baby gonna sleep? And how are we gonna afford it? And it. It really actually ties back to the eagle, which is like, they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. Like, when does the money come for the train ticket? It comes right when you need it. And you get it. You get it when you need it. God shows up when you need it. And I just thought that was a really. I. I wasn't expecting it to go there. And it's interesting because I've thought about that verse. Okay, so that part, the. The cup that overflows is that part that says, given it, we give it to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over will be poured into your lap. Like, there's that one, right? So I. I guess in my mind, I always pictured, like, this is going to sound so stupid. I've always pictured, like, gold coins, you know, like, it's poor. It's pouring out. I shook it, and they're all in there, and there's these coins pouring out. But if you think about it in terms of, like, flour or water, you're totally right.
- [48:51]
A
Yeah.
- [48:52]
B
And even if it were coins, whatever is pouring out of the cup, whatever it is, that's a mess. That's it.
- [48:58]
A
Yeah. And there's multiple pictures of that cup, because traditionally, that was like, if your cup was overflowing, it was that the host wanted you to stay. Like there was more than enough for you. The kept pouring, you know. But even David in Psalm 23 says, you anoint my head with oil. And he says, my cup runs over. My cup runs over. And it was just like, you know, when you just all of a sudden see the scripture in a completely different light because it's where you are. I'd never thought of that in my life, but it was what I needed. It was. It was comforting to me. It really was, because I was like, okay, dad, you got this. I'm so grateful. Thank you. I'm going to keep trusting you with the joy and with. With the worries. He can handle all of it.
- [49:42]
B
How do you handle. When you're praying for something and you're in the weight, you're in this slow burn, you're in the wait for something that you really want, and you see someone else getting it. I thought it was a powerful part that you wrote in the book about making the decision that, you know, here you are. I mean, you're in. When you're in that season of babies, it is like, you know, showers and. And birthday parties and aunts and nieces and nephews, and. I mean, that's really, really tricky when you're praying for something in particular and you see it happening for everybody else. And you come from a big family, you have a lot of siblings.
- [50:12]
A
Yeah.
- [50:13]
B
So I'm sure that this was happening probably, like, almost constantly.
- [50:17]
A
Yeah, I. I started trying to have kids before any of my siblings, and then sure enough, you know, I started getting past that by several. I think that it's a temptation for all of us, no matter what we're waiting on. It could be a baby, could be a job, could be a spouse, could be anything. We're all waiting on something, but it's a temptation to look at the other lanes when we're running our race, and if a runner focuses on another runner, they're going to get out of their lane, and they're probably going to trip and fall, and they're definitely not going to win because you don't win like looking to your left and your right, you win looking at your path and looking ahead. And I really had to be aggressive with my fear, my pain and my insecurity and say, I'm not going to live small. I'm not, I'm not going to live small. While I wait, I'm going to show up, I'm going to live outside my head. No one's thinking anything about me. They're not pitying me. When I show up for the baby shower, I'm going to throw the baby shower. I'm going to hold all the babies. I'm going to release all the love that I have right now because I got a lot of love stored up. And so whether it was serving in church or, you know, being the best aunt that I could be to my nephews and my nieces, it brought healing to me while I waited. It brought joy, it brought purpose to me. And I was isolated, making up fake stories. Back to the scar. Back to the scar. I wasn't like, oh, I, you know, everyone's thinking this about me. Oh, they treat me differently. No, they don't. They love me. I'm grateful for family, I'm grateful for friends, and I get to participate. So don't forfeit the game. It's here, it's now. It doesn't start when you reach the finish line. You're playing right now. Like, there's a lot of life. Are you going to live in? The weight I found, it brought me so much freedom because I didn't feel like I was locked out or in a waiting room. I really felt like, wow, I'm in the room. There's a lot of grace. There's all the love. I can sing, I can dance, I can shout, I can cry when I need to. I can live in wide open spaces while I wait. And we, we really all can if we don't isolate.
- [52:26]
B
You wrote will you live while you wait? And then you talked about Jesus. I mean, this was actually a really interesting take on the life of Jesus. I've not heard anybody talk about this. You know, everyone's like, well, he started his ministry in his 30s. But if you really think about that in particular in like, the particulars of it, it's like if someone didn't hit their purpose till their 30s, we might be like, yeah, they're a little behind the game, you know, or like you said, people. How many people would have looked at Jesus in those first, you know, he's failing to launch. You know, he's 26 what's, you know, what's he doing?
- [52:58]
A
Yeah. And.
- [52:58]
B
And you said, how many people would have pegged him as, like, feeling like he's. He's not quite where he needs to be. And you wrote, it's true, he wasn't born to be a carpenter, and yet he spent decades working as one. It was preparing him. If God designed his own life on earth to be a slow burn, why wouldn't ours be so What a book. And you said that your own waiting helped you to become more empathetic to other people who are in the wait.
- [53:26]
A
Yeah, it did.
- [53:27]
B
And there are a lot of ways to be waiting. And you talk about how there was a beautiful story, how you got lost one time or, no, you ran out of gas. I've had that. That is the most wild feeling when you press that gas pedal and, like, nothing happens. It's the worst, I think, for, like, my husband, he won't let the gas tank get lower than a certain amount. And I'm always, like, riding the edge, you know, Same, same. He's never. I don't think he's ever run out of gas, but I have, more than once. And it's a feeling like you're pressing that pedal and like nothing is happening. So you talked about this story about you. You know, it happens to you, and you can't get a hold of who you need to get a hold of. And you get a hold of someone else and there. And you don't know where you are. And you kind of like describing. And he says, I know exactly where you are.
- [54:12]
A
Yes.
- [54:12]
B
I was like, oh, that's a powerful sentence.
- [54:15]
A
Yeah. Because it's like, when we feel lost, we feel like God's confused, too, but he's not. He's not overwhelmed, and he's definitely not afraid. He knows how this is going to end. Eternity is real. And we do have a hope to cling to even when we don't get what we're waiting on in the here and now. This book I wrote, Slow Burn, it's not about, like, how to get what you want. It's how to live while you wait. And there are just some things that all of us are going to be waiting for until eternity. Because we live in a broken world. There's a lot of darkness. There's a lot of pain. A lot of pain. But in eternity, everything is going to be made right. And there won't be tears. There won't be pain. And so I have to even now greet eternity from afar and say, with the eyes of My heart, I can see it. And I'm not just going to live for right now and try to stack up a lot of treasures here on earth, but I really want to be focused on where my real home is. I'm a citizen of heaven. I'm a child of God. I'm known by God, I'm loved by God. There's nothing that I can achieve that can give me a higher, a higher title than daughter of God. And so I, in the weight we have to be truthful and go. I might not receive what I'm praying for in the here and now, but if I don't, God is still going to prove faithful. And I, I really hit a crossroads in those eight years where I just had to make that decision, that God, you've been faithful to me now. I've seen your kindness, you've been patient with me, you've been kind. You've given me worthy work. You've given me relationships around me that build me and sustain me. And I want to continue to invest. Sometimes we think that we prime the pump on relationships and then we're just supposed to coast for the rest of our life. That's not how relationships sustain. A plant is planted, but it still needs water. And so we have to continually invest in our relationships to see them continue to grow in strength and to thrive.
- [56:17]
B
And he knows exactly where you are.
- [56:20]
A
Yeah, he knows exactly where you are. He knows exactly where you are. I, I, I think that there are probably people watching or listening today that feel lost and confused, trying to find the next step. Feel like they're in a rut. Feel like, you know, there's chaos in their home and unrest inside of your heart. But you can cry out to God today and he will come to where you are. It's the greatest joy of his life. Jesus gives us this picture of him leaving 99 of a flock of sheep, and he goes after the one. So he, he leaves the crowd, he leaves everybody else to go after the one that is lost and doesn't know where they are. But he knows where they are. And so just know God's eyes are on you, but he won't force himself into your heart and he definitely won't force your hand. It's a decision. That's what real relationship is made up of. Right? Like my husband and I, we made a decision to be committed to each other. So we get to make a decision to go, hey, I don't know where I am, but you do. Help, help, help. And he'll show up.
- [57:29]
B
You bookended this book, I guess you wrapped, I would say you wrapped this book up with these two birthdays, the 25th and the 40th. And you wrote, I would be a completely different person from that 25 year old by the time I held my first miracle in my arms. You know, your 25th birthday, you had a close family friend that had passed away and your blood tests came back and they were irregular and the doctor says you're going to have trouble having kids. And you talk about the things that you learned during the wait and the value in it. Is there value in our waiting? I, I heard one time I read it actually, and I don't remember who it was. It was some like influencery type person on the Internet who had a baby around 40 and then she was a couple years older than that and she said there really is nothing like sitting in a diner with your 4 year old, you know, when you're 44 years old and like how just special that is, like how sweet and special that is. And it really, I remembered that because it's like there's all these worldly things about you're, you know, it's too old, it's too late, you know, but then they were just prizing that and I, I mean, I can totally see that, you know, that it just keeps you young and vibrant and fun and you talk about celebrations and how important that is in your family and just all these like really special, like life is special. These kids are special no matter when they come into your life. So you even talk about staying parties. I'm like, I've never heard of that. Celebrating consistency. Like, let's celebrate the things that are the same and have stayed the same. Same old, same old. But we're going to celebrate, we're going to celebrate where we can. So. What a wonderful book, Don Sri. This has been such an honor. The book is called Slow Burn. The Work of the Work and Wonder of the Weight. We always end our show with the same question. The question is, what's a favorite memory from your childhood? That was outside.
- [59:17]
A
Oh my goodness. Okay. So one of my favorite memories was learning to ride a bike at my house. I just, my kids just learned how to ride a bike. So it's at the forefront of my memory because I'm like, I gotta have memory too. And my family being so patient with me. I had a couple bumps, I had a couple bruises, had a couple wrecks, but we learned. And then from then on you just got it down and you're rolling and so that's Definitely one of my favorite memories from Louisiana as a little girl.
- [59:44]
B
And isn't that cool that you can share some of the same memories with your kids? Like then they're doing it. I love that, that. Well, this has been such an honor. Thank you so much for taking your time with us on their book launch week. Huge congrats to you. This has been an absolute inspiring, thought provoking conversation that will stick with me.
- [60:05]
A
Okay. You are so amazing. Oh, you gotta come see us in Miami. I'm so honored that you read my book in detail like that. Thank you. You're such an amazing like hosts. It's incredible the way you facilitate conversation. Thank you. Thank you for having me on. I'm inspired by you and God bless you and all the people that you're encouraging. Have the best week. Thank you.
- [60:29]
B
Do you want to learn the Bible in a way that's encouraging, surprising, and even entertaining? Check out the Bible Stories podcast. Each week, Bible Stories brings you classics, you know, and hidden gems that you might have missed. Have you ever heard about the time that King David fought a giant and he lost? Or when Paul preached so long a guy fell asleep he tumbled out a window and had to be brought back to life? Did you know that God himself buried Moses and that Michael the Archangel and the devil fought over Moses body? Yeah, it gets wild. So tune in for stories, storytelling that's.
- [61:07]
A
Biblical, insightful and a lot of fun.
- [61:11]
B
Subscribe today to Bible Stories with Matt Mullins and Todd Haymans, available wherever you get your podcasts.