← The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
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- [00:00]
Diane Bowden
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- [00:28]
Jenny Uridge
Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Uridge. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Hours Outside, and back today is Diane Bowden. Welcome, Diane.
- [00:38]
Diane Bowden
Thank you so much for having me. I need some of your enthusiasm. I'm in a little bit of a lull. I'm like, I'm tired.
- [00:43]
Jenny Uridge
I'll pass it through the microphone. Here's the thing. We are supposed to hang out. We haven't done it yet.
- [00:49]
Diane Bowden
I know.
- [00:50]
Jenny Uridge
But we are planning it.
- [00:52]
Diane Bowden
Well, you don't live that far away from me. You are in Michigan. I'm in Ohio. And our meeting point was going to be the Cuyahoga national park, which seems to align with both of our interests. So I don't know why we haven't made this happen yet.
- [01:04]
Jenny Uridge
It's gonna happen. It's definitely gonna happen. And I'm excited because we haven't actually been there yet. I know you've been on our podcast before. I've been on yours. And you have had a really. I wouldn't even say really big. You've had a brand shift, which I really understand because I was talking to some women the other day, and they were talking about how, like, in this day and age, you're really expected. And I kind of hate this, but you're kind of expected to be, like, really focused. And they were asking, like, how do you deal with that? And I was like, well, I just. I just. They, like, do whatever I want because I kind of feel like we get to be who we want to be. And if it's your podcast and, you know, if it's, you know, your message, and I feel like, I guess mine is about getting outside, but maybe encompasses a little bit more, like child wellness.
- [01:51]
Diane Bowden
Sure.
- [01:51]
Jenny Uridge
And also kind of what I've been learning, that's been my whole path.
- [01:54]
Diane Bowden
And.
- [01:55]
Jenny Uridge
But the problem is, is that if the title of something is one thing, it just feels like it can be really focused and you're missing a bigger pot of people, maybe. So you have this podcast. You are like, a forerunner of podcasting minimalist moms. You have a wonderful book, and you just recently changed the name I did. So can you talk to us about why and where you feel like you're headed with that? I love it. I love the new name.
- [02:22]
Diane Bowden
I'm so glad we're talking about this today, because I think you're right. I think so much of our identity can be wrapped up in these things that we. That once felt aligned for us. And Minimalist Moms was very aligned. I was a minimalist. I am a minimalist. But, yeah, that evolves and we grow. And so to me, I was like, am I isolating myself as a minimalist and only not preaching to, but speaking to mothers when this message is something that I believe everyone needs to hear? And so to me, minimalism was an umbrella for mindfulness, for intentionality, clarity and clear intentions just seemed to be the natural next evolution for the show, which you and I were talking about this before, because you were my first guest for Clear Intentions when I made the shift. And I was really nervous because, I don't know, I guess I wanted people to come alongside me in that journey. And people had been telling me in my own personal life, like, yes, they will. They've been here with you all along. They'll continue to be here. But I think sometimes now, let's see here. We're like, two months out. I'll be honest with you. I think it's still really scary that I've made that shift, because, again, identity, it's like, you were the minimalist mom. People still introduce you as that, and they forget that you've made this change. So there's part of me that's like, do I change back? I don't. I don't know. That's a hard thing. I. I love your face there. I've. I've thought about that, but I think I'm going to continue to ride the wave of what, again, feels in alignment for me and hopefully attract more people that aren't just looking to be minimalist, but looking to really live that life of intention.
- [04:03]
Jenny Uridge
Well, I think you still are the minimalist mom, and that's the whole thing. You know, if I ever change my podcast, I feel like I would still be the 1000 hours outside lady. That's what people call me. Yeah, there's still that. So it's almost like it's clear intentions with the minimalist mom. Like, you haven't changed. You have changed in terms of, like, growth, but you're still that. And you're still the person who put out all of those years of content that helped people. But I liked what you said. About isolating yourself. And also sort of it keeps other people out who maybe are not that minimalism word doesn't draw them in. And so I like it. It's like you've opened the door to new people.
- [04:40]
Diane Bowden
Mm.
- [04:41]
Jenny Uridge
And transitions hard. I mean, you even said your husband was like, eh.
- [04:44]
Diane Bowden
Yeah, no, he did. He did and he still does. But no, you're right. I think the word minimalism can be overwhelming, can be daunting for people because most of my listeners do have kids and they're like, I can't. Or I guess most. Most people. Not most people. The people that I'm trying to reach out to do have children. And so they're like, I don't want to have bare walls or my children have toys or I don't want to have no throw pillows on. I don't want to have any throw pillows on my co. I mean, fill in the blank. They just think it's this daunting task and they assume Marie Kondo or the minimalist and no shade to anyone. But I just think that my version of minimalism is to get rid of what's superfluous, to make room for what matters most. And that's going to look different for every person. There isn't necessarily a blanket statement. It's more of a tool. It's a tool for your life.
- [05:35]
Jenny Uridge
Yeah. Your version of minimalism is intentionality.
- [05:38]
Diane Bowden
Yeah.
- [05:38]
Jenny Uridge
And there are a lot of misconceptions about minimalism. I think, like all of those things you said are misconceptions. So I read your book and you know, different books about keeping your house. And it's been a couple of years, maybe like, I don't know. And I have cleaned out one set of drawers in my bathroom.
- [05:58]
Diane Bowden
Oh, no, they look very good, but.
- [06:01]
Jenny Uridge
That'S as far as I've gotten with it. So to your point, I mean, I don't care. It's fine. You know, I'm like, there will be time and for that down the road. But to your point, it's like you don't want to exclude or ostracize or. Those aren't even the right words. Just like automatically have people that are not listening just because they're like, well, I'm not a minimalist and I'll never be one. So you. You change to this more wide reaching topic of intentionality. Can you talk about what are some of your hopes and dreams for conversation topics and people to talk to and things like that?
- [06:38]
Diane Bowden
Yeah, well, and I think again, when I had you on the show, we talked A lot about this, about as your children get older and you start to become interested in different things, or you start to grow as a person and you become interested in different things, or even this is something else. We talked about identifying as a Christian and yet having these other interests. And it's like you're not Christian enough for this side and then you're not necessarily progressive enough for this side. And it's like, I'm not trying to just wave my white flag and be a moderate or to be in the middle. I just want to have conversations because in doing so we open our eyes to again, people's lived experiences. We broaden our perspective, we have understanding. It makes me, throughout the last several years of talking to various people, it has made me more empathetic, it has made me more open. Even if I'm not changing my core beliefs, it has just helped me to be a more understanding person. Whereas I would say maybe when I started it I was pretty close minded. And again, it doesn't mean you adopt those beliefs of your own. It just means that you know how to walk alongside people a lot better, you know how to build relationship a lot better. And so I guess my dream with the show selfishly is to continue to, to do that well, but also to people that may be uncomfortable in their day to day having conversations with some of these people, it's like, well, you can be a fly on the wall of me doing that and then again, your eyes are opened and you can go take that into the world.
- [08:07]
Jenny Uridge
I love the word you used. You, this is the right word. Broaden. That's what you're doing. Broaden is the word. You're broadening your audience, you're broadening your get, broadening your guests. That's hard for to say. You're broadening the types of topics that you're going to be talking about. That's the, that is the right word to use. So I would love to talk about as you're sort of modeling this to other people, which I think also that's a really good thing that you can model shifting and you can model expanding and you can model making some changes even though you feel a little bit nervous about it. So I would love to talk about some of these things that are often talked about in the framework of minimalism, under the framework of intentionality. Okay, so that new podcast is called Clear Intentions. So I would love to know what is your intentional approach with screens in your home with your kids.
- [08:57]
Diane Bowden
Oh, that's so funny. You're talking about this all very timely, Jenny. Um, so screen time, typically with something like an iPad, we have just done Saturdays for 90 minutes. During the summer, it's Tuesdays and Saturdays for 90 minutes. At the end of the school year, my kids seem to not be able to handle that. So usually in May we'll declutter or declutter. We'll detox for the whole month of May. No iPads, I don't know. For some reason I personally don't feel as overwhelmed by television. Like I don't want them just sitting in front of a television all afternoon. But to me I'm like, I don't know. We turned out, I turned out okay for all the.
- [09:32]
Jenny Uridge
Well, there's research on that, you know. Who did I talk to about it? Victoria Dunkley. I think her.
- [09:38]
Diane Bowden
Okay.
- [09:40]
Jenny Uridge
I feel bad when I don't remember, but it was about how interactive screen use dysregulates your nervous system. And so iPads are interactive screen use, so are phones, TV is not. So it actually is really different. If it feels different, that's because it is different. Yeah. And.
- [09:57]
Diane Bowden
Well, and I also think when, I mean this was 10 years ago, eight years ago, when we, my daughter was starting to watch television, but we focused on things like Little Bear, things that were slower and not as. Again, you know that you know the science. You've had many people on here to explain the science. Jonathan Haidt, I think talks about it in his books. This book as well. But yeah, the fast moving images, that's not good for our brain. And it's kind of the same thing that we get off of YouTube shorts or Instagram or TikTok, those just little bits of dopamine hits. So I'm trying to avoid that to where it's. I already think that maybe some of my children have hints of adhd and it's like we don't need to exacerbate this with the fast moving. And I mean, I don't know. So I think we try to be as intentional as we can. But I do think this is one of the biggest struggles for modern parenting and I'm overwhelmed by it. I was just in my nature group yesterday talking about this and we all just felt, feel like it's a very daunting thing, especially as kids grow into teenagers, which is something that I'm sure you're experiencing with the phone usage, social media. I think being like minded with some of your closest friends seems to be my hope.
- [11:01]
Jenny Uridge
But it is daunting. And I think I really like when people say things like this Chris McKenna, he said from Protect your guys. This is part of your parenting. This is it. And so when someone clearly says, because you're kind of like maybe skirting around it, and you're like, am I doing something wrong? And why does it feel so stressful? And he says, no, this is a part of modern day parenting and it's something that you have to deal with and, you know, try your best to figure out. But I love your idea of. I love your idea of bounding it in because that's kind of how it was, you know, in generations past. The TV was only available and screens were only available at certain times. And I love the idea of taking May off to a degree because then you're prepping for the summer.
- [11:41]
Diane Bowden
Yeah, well. And it just. I don't really know because this is interesting. We have one child in public school, one child in private school, and I homeschool my oldest. And so I don't really know how the public schools do it. Usually by this time of the year, my daughter and I are finished. But I just want them to get focused on what they're doing at the end of the year to enjoy those last moments with friends that they might not necessarily see over the summer, and just to wrap it up with the best frame of mind as possible. And sometimes I just think screenshots, they just. What's the word? They trickle into, I guess, areas that we don't even understand.
- [12:18]
Jenny Uridge
Yeah. Okay, let's talk about intentionality with your. Oh, that's an easy one. How about with your wardrobe? Because this is what I'm saying. I. What I want to try and bridge the gap is to say is to sort of. That we're broaden. Right. It's like a lot of people talk about minimalism with their wardrobe. Yeah, that would be a conversation topic, but it fits under intentionality as well.
- [12:39]
Diane Bowden
Sure. So my wardrobe, I think this is one of the reasons that I didn't necessarily consider myself a minimalist, because a lot of people will do capsule wardrobes. I know Courtney Carver has a book Project 333, where she has 33 items, I believe for three months. And my. My sweater compartment is just over in abundance. That doesn't align there. But all that to say, I live by the hanger rule. So I don't buy any more hangers. I just have the ones that are there. And when I buy something new, it' something has to go. So I think that's been helpful. I recently started implementing wear throughout the season, so maybe a little bit more than the season, because in Ohio, it's colder, longer. But after six months, I'll go into my closet, and if I wear something, I put it on the other way. Like, I'll flip the hanger around so I know that I've worn it. And then after six months, I'll see what hanger. What hangers are not flipped around and reevaluate those. Because it's like, if you haven't reached for it in six months, are you likely to do that? And I think a lot of what has driven me in the past several years is just being rational and honest with myself and my habits. And I think sometimes we like to lie to ourselves and say, well, my future self will do this, or the best version of myself will. Will be this person. But it's like, what is the evidence showing? And that's okay. Like, it might be something that you don't want to acknowledge. You might not like what you see in the mirror or what your habits have been leading you towards. But as long as you can be honest with yourself, I just think that you're. You can start to implement changes. And so something as silly as your wardrobe, it's like, who am I? What am I wearing if I'm not wearing it, Am I going to reach for it? And then maybe challenge yourself to say, I'm going to reach for this in the next couple of weeks, or it's out.
- [14:29]
Jenny Uridge
Okay, I love this. I've never heard of that. I've never heard of the hanger method. And I love that it. It's several things. It's first of all, not overloading your closet, but then it's also figuring out what you actually wear. And that's a really good example of something that someone could completely miss. Like, that's a great tool for life and living. And it's something that someone could completely miss if they're like, well, I'm not a minimalist, so I'm not gonna listen to that. But it's intentionality about what you have, and then you can make quicker choices to get out of the house and go do what you want to do. Okay, what about bringing intentionality, especially with having these kids and they're in different school situations, bringing intentionality to rest and relaxation.
- [15:09]
Diane Bowden
Okay, again, all this is so timely. I've recently started to implement the Sunday Sabbath. So I feel like when you are someone that's working for yourself, especially if it's in a creative kind of tech realm, like, we could always be creating content, right? Like, we could always be putting Up a reel or a story, whatever. And so to me, it's like, I don't. I need someone to tell me to turn it off. And so I'm like, well, scripture says we need to take a weekly Sabbath. I've never implemented that, and yet I say that I believe that to be true. There's a great book by Wayne Mueller called Sabbath, and I still didn't implement it after reading that book. So I'm like, diane, you need to start living by what it is that you tell other people to do. You need to take Sundays off. And again, whatever day works best. Maybe it's Saturdays for some people, but really just choosing to read to. I'm not better for not taking time off. Like, it's kind of how people are like, oh, I can get by. And sleeping four hours a night. And it's like, yeah, but are you actually giving your very best the next day? Like, sure, you can make, you can make it through and you can load up on caffeine, but are you better for your children? Are you better for your friends, your partner? Like, I haven't been. And I think that that's why just something had to give and I had to start creating margin for rest.
- [16:30]
Jenny Uridge
My favorite Sabbath book is called the Sabbath. So it's interesting that there's one called Sabbath and this one's called the Sabbath by Abraham Joshua Hart.
- [16:38]
Diane Bowden
I'm gonna write that down. The Sabbath.
- [16:40]
Jenny Uridge
It is a mind blowing book about your time. I wish I had it right here and I could read you quotes. I very. I read a lot and I know you read a lot. And I very rarely read to my husband. Like, listen to this, Listen to that. I learned about it from Neil Pasricha, who has a podcast called Three Books, which is about people's three most influential books that they've read. Oh, which is super interesting. And that's how I found out about this book, the Sabbath. And it's one of the ones where I was like, josh, let me read you this, Josh. And I can't. I just. It's like in another part of the house. But I think the way that the Jewish people do it is they do sundown to sundown.
- [17:17]
Diane Bowden
Yeah. Friday night. Right.
- [17:19]
Jenny Uridge
But that's always an interesting way to do it too, because then you have, you know, you have a little bit of time at the beginning of the day. You know, you have a little time at the end of the next day. So that's really cool that you're doing that. Tell us a little bit more. Like, how has it Been going. How do you feel? Do you feel itchy to get back to working?
- [17:36]
Diane Bowden
Yeah. No. Well, it started off because I just happened to take my kiddos to my friend's house and I ended up staying there for eight hours talking to her. Why our kids played, which I know is some people's worst nightmare. But for me, I am an extrovert and so I love to talk. So it has less to do with maybe being quiet every Sunday versus just taking a break from, I guess, the screens. Like just the work. For me, I think that was the biggest challenge. So if someone's listening that can't relate to that. I think it's just kind of breaking up your week and routine to say, like, I'm gonna take a chance or I'm gonna take an opportunity to sit down because maybe I'm on my feet all week chasing after my kids. And I don't know. I think it allows for my kids to be more independent because it's like, you can help make your lunches today or maybe we're gonna have a charcuterie type dinner on the nights that we're here. Most Sundays we go to my house for dinner. So dinner is not really something that I have to think about that day. But I don't know, I think that I was always so hesitant to take, like to know how to take that time away because I had young kids and it's like, wait, they're fully capable of doing this with us and we're not saying just to sit on a chair all day and do nothing, like play board games with them, go outside. Oftentimes we'll go out into nature and hike together after church. Really make of it what you will, but just make time to schedule margin.
- [18:55]
Jenny Uridge
I love that because even if someone is an introvert, I think if you're an introvert, you're fine to still spend time with like one other person.
- [19:01]
Diane Bowden
Sure.
- [19:02]
Jenny Uridge
Usually, I mean, I guess there's probably different variations of introverts, but you know, a lot of times it's like, no, I don't like big crowds, but to go and have a one on one conversation while the kids play, that's so relaxing.
- [19:13]
Diane Bowden
Yeah.
- [19:14]
Jenny Uridge
Restful for everyone. And you're not doing work on those days. I love that someone said if you work with your head, you should sabbath with your hands. And if you work with your hands. Am I getting right? You should sabbath with your head with your mind, basically. I don't know.
- [19:29]
Diane Bowden
Yeah, absolutely.
- [19:30]
Jenny Uridge
Yeah. And so you're doing all this content creation and putting all these things out into the world. So then to be able to take a break from that and like, we're gonna go play as a family. We're gonna go to a park. I love that idea.
- [19:40]
C
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- [20:54]
D
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- [23:24]
Jenny Uridge
Okay, one of the things that you've been talking about, and you and I talked about this a little bit right before we popped on, is your legacy. And also, you know, at end of life, what do you want to be remembered for? And like, intentionally, how do you want to set your kids up? I know it's obviously, it's like a long ways away, hopefully, you know, for all of us, but it's something to be thinking about.
- [23:46]
Diane Bowden
Yeah. So I read the book Swedish Death Cleaning and I always butcher this woman's name, but it's Margarita Magnussen, something like that. I think. Googling. Googling it. It will get you there.
- [23:56]
Jenny Uridge
Yeah. There's no other book called Swedish Death Clean.
- [23:59]
Diane Bowden
I'm sure you'll get there. But she suggests moving through your things before you get to the end of life because, well, one, do it when you're capable and your body is still able. But also, this is something that I've just taken from that I want my kids I want my kids to focus on their grieving and how much they miss me. I'm just kidding. But I want them to be able to not have to go through a ton of my things as they're also moving through that process of mourning. Because I'm. I think when we don't go and take the time to declutter our things, it's going to be pushed off to someone else. Right. Even if it's not our kids, someone else is going to have to bear the weight, to bear that burden of decisions that we haven't made. And so to me, I'm like, as adults, we should be able to make decisions. And sometimes it takes someone else coming in, a sister, a best friend, someone that you hire to come through and move through these things with you. But what is it? Indecision is the worst decision. I just think that we're fully capable of making the decisions and sometimes we know and it's just hard. And so then that's like we have all these objects that it's really not the object that we're wrestling with, it's the emotion attached to it. And we don't know how to deal with that. So I think for a lot of people, minimalism and decluttering, it's just so multi layered and that's why it's. It's harder than we even expect. But again, going back to mortality and moving through the things, I just want to make sure that I can have my house to a place where it's just the last remaining treasures that my kids have to sort through the things that I really loved.
- [25:42]
Jenny Uridge
It's interesting, I talked to this man named Levi Lusko who lost the child and also then his father passed away this past year and he said that it, on average, I think he said it takes 300 hours for someone to go through the estate and to deal with all of those extra pieces. That is so much time while you're in the grieving process and while, I mean, who has. If you were like, hey, do you think you could put together 300 extra hours?
- [26:13]
Diane Bowden
Sure. Yeah. I saw my dad do it because my mom is still working full time. So when my mom's sister passed my hat, my dad had to go into her apartment. And she was a single woman, but she had so many things to sort through. And it's like, I don't know, what did she want for these things? Like, I just think it's a lot of indecision that we don't make and we push off on someone else and Something else that I like to think about if I ever got into decluttering for people as they're downsizing their homes and. Or moving into retirement homes, that kind of care. Usually people will take their very favorite things into their rooms because they don't have a ton of space. If you're moving into an assisted living, it's like, I don't have a ton of space here. So people are taking their very favorite things in there. And to me, I'm like, why are we keeping these storage lockers of all this stuff that they didn't say was most important to bring here at the end of their life? So that's also something to consider. It's like, why are we paying all this money and wasting all of this space to keep these things that are probably just going to be disposed of anyways? It's overwhelming, but it's just something that. That people need to start considering because I don't think that. Who's really talking about this.
- [27:20]
Jenny Uridge
Sure, the lady who wrote the Sweetest Swedish Death Cleaning. She is. Levi was talking about it. I've never even heard of that book. What's the premise? Is it, like, cleaner stuff so you're so, you know, your kids don't have to.
- [27:36]
Diane Bowden
Well, I think it's not even just with the things. I think it's just getting your affairs in line of where does this stuff go? Like, just having. I know, having the end in mind again, it's facing your mortality. But I think especially as a Christian, it's like, we came into this world, we leave with nothing. With nothing. We leave with nothing. And we are called to hold our possessions loosely. And I don't know, I. I would say that the Swedish people in general seem to be doing this and it has served them well.
- [28:11]
Jenny Uridge
That is so interesting that I've never heard of that book. And it definitely sounds like one that's really, really good. I like what you're talking about, though. The whole point is there are different motivations for these things. So once again, it's another topic that would be covered under minimalism. Absolutely right. This is a minimalist topic. Go through your things so that when you pass away, you know, your kids and your family and your friends, they don't have to do it. But it's way broader than minimalism. It's about your motivations and who are you doing this for. So all of. I love it. I love that it all fits with minimalism, but it also fits in the bigger bucket of clear intentions. Here's something that a lot of people struggle with. Do you have clear intentions for your mornings?
- [28:56]
Diane Bowden
For my mornings, some days, on my better days, yes. Yeah, I would say that on certain days of the week, I know that I get up early and I go work out. I like to get it done out of the way kind of while I'm still asleep. Sleep still. So it's like, oh, I don't even recognize that I'm doing this right now. No. But then I come home and yeah, I do have my routine with my dogs and with my coffee and I try to read my Bible sometimes. Not as good as that either. But yeah, I mean, I think that people just get into their natural rhythms and they don't even realize how intentional they are about things. And that was something that I realized throughout my minimalist pursuits too. It's like, you don't. A lot of this stuff just becomes second nature. Like when I think about the one in, one out rule, like I said, or a place for everything and everything has a place. Or the one minute rule. Like all of these things. I'm not going throughout my day, like, okay, it's time for the one minute rule. It's just second nature now. And so I think a lot of us are living more intentionally. If we sat down, we would have quite an evidence routine, I guess. But I also think. I don't know if I said this many moons ago when I was on your show, but I like to also, this is just a side note. I like to write down what my habits have been and what I value and compare the list. Like, am I doing what I say I value? And then if there is an alignment or there's a disconnect, it's like, what can I do? What's one step I can take to be more aligned with the things that I say that I value? Again, just kind of being honest with myself, being realistic and rational to create that life that I want. Because I know we don't have control of much in this life. I do have control of the inventory of my home. So I just like to take control where I can and not allow life to just kind of come at me. But to again, take. Take it back where I can.
- [30:50]
Jenny Uridge
Okay, let me ask one more. I know I just like popped all of these on you.
- [30:54]
Diane Bowden
No, no, you're fine. Hopefully I'm sounding coherent to listeners, and.
- [30:58]
Jenny Uridge
I hope that's sort of what I was trying to draw out is that all of these topics are in both buckets. Yes, they work for minimalism, but they also work for a larger audience. About what our intentions are for how we want our lives to go. What types of books have you been intentionally drawn to lately?
- [31:16]
Diane Bowden
Typically nonfiction and. Or thriller. That's my first answer for you. I think not horror thriller to where it's kind of like a whodunit to me that's kind of just escapism sometimes. And I've really opted out of the news. Pretty much before the election I just felt like it wasn't giving me much mental peace. And so it doesn't mean that you're ignorant to things going on around the world, but when you are putting so much energy towards something that you again don't have a lot of control of, it just makes you feel helpless. And it's like no, I'm not helpless in my home. I'm in control of, of things here. And so you can kind of take back that control. Like I said, where you can. So that's thriller. Sorry, more deep, deep answer about the thrillers. But non fiction. I mean who doesn't like a good self help book or just learning about. I mean truly like just the people that you have on your shows. All these people have written such wonderful, remarkable books on parenting, science, the mind, anything like that is appealing to me.
- [32:18]
Jenny Uridge
I like the same. I'm like, I'm actually reading right now Silence of the Lambs. Oh, that might be more in the horror. It was recommended in another book and I was like, oh, I've never read that. And anyway I'm not all the way through. I guess it probably is more in the horror pot. But I do like having both. Like I like having fiction and non fiction. I think it really makes me feel more well rounded.
- [32:42]
Diane Bowden
I'm curious to know. I know this is not, this is your show, but I'm curious to know because you are reading so many nonfiction books, especially for your guests. I think sometimes my words of my word of wisdom for people is to start to. I guess I don't know how you balance this because I think it's important to pause the information that we're taking in and sit with it and then we can start to apply it. But I feel like when I've had so many teachers, these authors speaking into my life through books, I never take action because it's like I'm just taking in, taking in, taking in. And I'm never just implementing. Do you feel that?
- [33:19]
Jenny Uridge
I don't think I do because I. Because I go through the material so much. So I think that if there were all this material coming in and it was just a One time pass through then I would probably not implement. But like you know, it's. It's a four time pass through really. So it's like a book read. It's the notes, it's the conversation and it's the edit that makes me usually graphics. So it's sometimes actually a five times pass through the material. So like I've cut out seed oils and food dye and I'm walking more and I, I do think and I, I wasn't reading fiction for a long time and then I read Read Aloud revival by Sarah McKenzie and so I've added fiction. So it's interesting. I. I think that I'm probably missing 90% of it. But you know, to a degree I'm. I'm sure for the same for you. I'm sure that there's a lot that gets missed. But also I would imagine you've made some significant life changes.
- [34:16]
Diane Bowden
Yeah.
- [34:16]
Jenny Uridge
And also had a lot of things to think about and discuss based off of your reading.
- [34:21]
Diane Bowden
Oh sure. I certainly. And I think that com. The power of conversation and having these conversations and hashing it out here. Yes. That there's something that instills it in my mind. Maybe better than even reading it sometimes. But yeah, I think that that's been one of my things that I've tried to again with news just kind of cutting out all the noise and allowing myself to sit with my voice more often because sometimes we just, just. It gets clouded and I think it's so important to have again other voices and to listen and learn from other people. But it's like what do I think about this? Like how do I digest this? How do I implement this? And I think that can be daunting for me. So I've had to declutter the amount coming in.
- [35:00]
Jenny Uridge
Yeah. You're like, is it minimalism for your mind?
- [35:02]
Diane Bowden
Yeah, yeah. Which again, under the umbrella minimalist moms was doing this and this is still my purpose with clear intentions. It's just a name change. It's not necessarily. I'm not, not trying to whittle away at things still.
- [35:19]
Jenny Uridge
Yeah. It's just a name change with using that word broaden to broaden your audience and to broaden the amount of topics that you know, sort of fit in that vein. What are some topics, upcoming topics that you're excited about exploring?
- [35:32]
Diane Bowden
Excited about exploring any and all of the above. But I mean anything that has to do with again, Silence Sabbath, getting more into I guess the science like neuroscience behind why that's important. Important Creating margin. I think what I have Coming up.
- [35:50]
D
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- [38:01]
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- [39:36]
Diane Bowden
One of the topics that I have coming up that I'm really excited about is a guy local to Columbus named Spicebush Woodcraft. And that's not his real name, it's not his birth name, but he talks about foraging and how to do it the right way. I think there's a book called Braiding Sweetgrass which also kind of touches on some of that. But I have a lot of guests coming up that are, I guess in the natural like outdoor realm, but also just any kind of parenting topics. I have a woman that talks about. I think her book is called Please Yell at My Kids and that is about how parents are parenting all around the world and what we can take from the different cultures on how they parent. And I think it seems overwhelming to us. Think about the book Free Range Child. Is that what it is by Leonora Skinnove that I know, I know.
- [40:26]
Jenny Uridge
I think it's called Free what'd you.
- [40:28]
Diane Bowden
Say it's free range, Free range child. Free range kid kids.
- [40:31]
Jenny Uridge
And it's skinny. That's a hard last name.
- [40:34]
Diane Bowden
Okay. Whatever that book is, I think it's similar to that. That seems so foreign to our helicopter parent culture. But it's like, how are other cultures parenting around the world and just getting that insight to being better? And not again, not taking everything on ourselves, but just saying, like, yeah, I could adopt these parts of these parenting principles. So, yeah, I would just say with clear intentions. It's really like anyone that's looking to live an intentional life and they have expertise in an area and. Or their story can provide insight into how to be better. That's kind of who I'm looking to speak with.
- [41:11]
Jenny Uridge
Do you feel like it has opened the doors to more opportunities or more people to talk to?
- [41:16]
Diane Bowden
I think so. And also, I was always trying to pull in men for minimalist moms, and I would. I have a handful sprinkled out. Sprinkled in throughout the years. But I think there's just a lot we can learn from one another. And I think the hardest thing is to say this thing interests me. I don't even know if I'm allowed to say this on your show. Like, psychedelics. Am I allowed to talk about psychedelics on your show?
- [41:39]
Jenny Uridge
I don't even know what that is.
- [41:40]
Diane Bowden
Psychedelics, like. Like mushrooms. Like, how they're being used for.
- [41:46]
Jenny Uridge
Like, when someone says that word. Let me tell you what things my mind thinks of. My mind thinks of, like, hippies.
- [41:53]
Diane Bowden
Yes. No, exactly.
- [41:54]
Jenny Uridge
Yeah, exactly.
- [41:55]
Diane Bowden
No. So I don't know if you want to cut this out, but. Yeah, I just think that's interesting to me that there is a maybe more natural method to help veterans of war and help people that have PTSD of any sort in a more, again, natural way. But again, going back to what I said at the beginning, it's like, you're not Christian enough or you're not progressive enough. So finding that middle way of the things that I'm actually interested in, not necessarily doing, but I'm just like, I. I'm just open to hearing from different people that are not the same as me.
- [42:30]
Jenny Uridge
I almost think that if someone started. Just wanted to start a podcast, that one of your best bets would be to just use your name. But the problem is if nobody knows your name, but, like, if it were the Diane Bowden podcast, then it's like, well, you just talk about whatever you're interested in. And that is. It's a tricky thing. Like, with 1,000 hours outside, people got so mad. Some did that I talked about seed oils, and I was like, well, so if it was like, you know, there's like the Mel Robbins podcast and some people just use their name, and you're like, well, that's kind of a smart. A smart way to go, then nothing is off limits. You could talk about psychedelics. You can talk about the hanger rule. You could talk about anything. But intentions, obviously, is a big bucket, too. Can you talk about. So you rebrand your podcast after a decade. Is this a big, big shift? What advice would you have? I mean, this is. I think this is a part of the whole piece. Like, you're modeling this. What advice would you have for someone who feels hesitant? And I know you're right at the cusp of it, it's just new. But who feels hesitant about making big changes?
- [43:31]
Diane Bowden
I think it's important to take risks in life, and sometimes we have more clarity, and sometimes we go in a little bit, I guess, more in the dark. But there's a lot of people that just stay at home. But this is going to sound kind of mean, but there's a lot of people that just stay at home and they sit on their couch and they always have these dreams, but they never act. And so it's like, if you even take a step in the direction of your dream, you're doing more than they're doing. Again, for whatever reason, they're not doing it. But I think that you should be encouraged by the fact that you're taking small steps and building momentum towards the life that you're wanting to. And it can be scary. And I think even. Even if Minimalist Moms is ever to come back, that seems embarrassing to me because it's like, well, didn't you make this shift so intentionally? You were so certain. And it's like, yeah, I did. And maybe that ran its season. And it's okay to pivot and it's okay to fail, and it's okay to be embarrassed because all of this could go away tomorrow. And am I. I'm still Diane. I still have the people in my life that love me. And I don't need this to be. I don't need this to just be an ego boost or my identity. Like, I do this for a reason. I do this to serve people. I do this. There's just purpose here. So I think in taking a risk and take taking a leaf, like, focus on the people that you're serving and pivot as need be, and it's okay to fail.
- [45:01]
Jenny Uridge
Okay, I love that answer. Because I think, I mean, this is the point. If you shifted back, which maybe you would or maybe you won't, that shouldn't really matter. It's like, that's how life is. You have to try stuff. I like the sort of conversation topic of make a decision and then iterate. So you make a decision. You're like, I want to try this. There's these reasons. It opens the door to have these conversations that I couldn't have had before. But also, you know, maybe it ends up not being the right decision. And so you should be able to shift back. I feel like one of the best things that I would ever do, like, that sounds really braggadocious. I don't usually talk like that, but I used to teach. I'm thinking about this as like the stupidest example, but I used to teach swim lessons when I was in college. And sometimes, I don't know, teaching kids how to swim is like an odd thing. And, you know, like, I would sometimes go in and I would say, what we did yesterday didn't work and we're going to do something different. And I've sort of taken that method into a lot of things into my life, with parenting and with business, where I'm like, that didn't work, so now I'm gonna try something different. And I. I think that, let's say you did clear intentions for seven months and you were like, I'm going back to minimalist moms. I also think that that would be a freeing message to people too, that you're allowed to try stuff and see if it works and if it doesn't work.
- [46:25]
Diane Bowden
Yeah. And no. And that's what I'm saying. I'm saying that again. I think we. I think that we live in a society where you can't fail on a large scale. Like, that's embarrassing because ego is attached to it and it's like, everything has to succeed. Or if you're going to fail, then hopefully it's. You don't have this large business that does it. Like, hopefully, no, it never really got off the ground, so no one notices. So you can quiet. Slightly pivot. But I don't know. I think about Abercrombie. Abercrombie is one of, like, the. The brands that really, like, lost its luster and then it's just rebranded itself and it's done really well in the second iteration of Abercrombie and Fitch, and they've gotten rid of the logo on the shirts because it was like people said that they don't want to be identified by a certain brand. They just want classic pieces. And I think they've done the reinvention really, really well. I'm not calling myself Abercrumbie. And who knows if this minimalist mom's will ever end up coming back. But it's just something that I think that people aren't necessarily talking about. How to fail.
- [47:27]
Jenny Uridge
Well, yeah. And is it, and is it even failing? That's the thing. It's an iteration. Right. It's like, okay, well that didn't work, or people didn't like that, or we, we thought they would like this, but they didn't.
- [47:40]
Diane Bowden
Yeah.
- [47:41]
Jenny Uridge
And so it's just a, it's just a step forward. And so you, you have to like, this is the type. I agree with you. I think this is the time in life where it's very easy to try nothing.
- [47:51]
Diane Bowden
Yeah, exactly. That's much kinder than the way that I put it of the person sitting on the couch.
- [47:56]
Jenny Uridge
Well, like it. Yeah. Because you can be entertained all the time or, you know, all of your time can be taken up. And so what's the point in risking. I just was at a conference with John Acuff, who I really like. He's got these amazing books and he did his first conference. It was like a live in person, two day thing. It didn't sell out, you know, so you're kind of like, oh, you know, I don't know how he feels about that, but it was also amazing. And he put up a picture of himself where he had thought that a thousand people were going to come to his book signing. And two people came who, one of them was a friend of his and one of them was a dad of someone whose kid had read his book. And so he brought like a thousand stickers and he left with998. And he put that up there and you're like, is, is a fail? Kind of, I guess. But it's also just like a step forward in getting information and then saying, well, that didn't work or this worked. And so I'm going to iterate and move forward. So I, I think it's a really cool thing, Diane, that you, you know, you have this like steady thing and you're like, I think it needs to evolve. I think it needs to change a little bit. I want to broaden who I'm reaching. I want to broaden, you know, who I can have conversations with. And I think that's part of the thrill of watching it happen.
- [49:11]
Diane Bowden
Yeah, yeah. I'm going back to what you were saying. I think we're so often consumers and not creators because we don't feel like we have enough time to create and we need to set aside time for creation. And I just had an episode with actually my friend. He's local, Matt Barnes of the Leisure Club. And he was just talking about how he is creative in his labor and his leisure. His labor has something in his leisure. I can't remember what the middle one is, but it's like even in my leisure, like I'm creative in the way that I like lay out my outfit and I want to go out. Like we are designed to be creative people in whatever way. Even the way that you design your child's lunch. Fill in the blank for what you feel like creative in, but don't not do it and just consume and take and take and take.
- [49:59]
Jenny Uridge
Yeah, it's really good. Okay, how about one last one? What are you being intentional about when it comes to fun? So I think this is a really hard time in the world where especially as a parent. I just talked to this woman who told me her name is Dr. Morgan Cutlip and she wrote my favorite marriage book called A Better Share. It's actually my all time favorite marriage book, A Better Share. And she said that women with young children, which it wasn't. I don't think the ages was quantified. Or maybe it was. I think it was like women with young children and it was like ages 6 to 12. So then I was thinking it would be even more if you have younger kids because they are so all consuming. It said women with these kids of ages 6 to 12 work 98 hours a week. That's a lot.
- [50:43]
Diane Bowden
Yeah, that is a lot.
- [50:44]
Jenny Uridge
98 hours a week. So you're a mother, you've got kids in different school situations, you're running a business. How do you be intentional about having fun?
- [50:54]
Diane Bowden
Recently my husband and I have been playing darts together. We have a little place in town that we'll go and we'll take our kids. It's like a. It's like a small kind of barcade. And so we'll play darts where the kids play video games. Like this is just once a month, but that's a fun thing that we do. Sometimes when we go to the playground, I'll try and walk on the logs or swing on the rope. Swing. Just kind of inviting myself into that childlike space. Space. And it's not all the time, but it, it is fun. But I think you're right. I think fun, it's like, what is fun? What. How do I define fun now in my mid-30s, it doesn't look like it used to. And sometimes the way society, some of the things that society says are fun aren't so fun for me. So I think you have to really get clear on what. You have to have clear intentions about what fun looks like for you. Truly just. Yeah, I think finding childlike wonder and things is fun for me. I don't. I really like being around animals. I know that's kind of weird.
- [51:53]
Jenny Uridge
That's not weird.
- [51:54]
Diane Bowden
Yeah, like, I just love being around animals. Are you kidding me?
- [51:56]
Jenny Uridge
Tons of people love being around animals. I don't know if you've heard of it, but nd Wilson, who wrote Death by Living and 100 Cupboards, he's got all these books for kids and for adults. But he has a new. It's always funny to advertise screens on this podcast. But he has a new nature documentary series and he says it's one that honors God. It's phenomenal. It's called the Riot and the Dance and it's on Angel Studios. It's one of the best things I've ever seen. I'm telling everybody about it, but it's all about animals and like God's creativity and what that means for us and that type of thing. But he was talking about how in Job, because Andy Wilson had a brain tumor like about eight years ago and he had to get operated on and all of this type of thing. And he said when he was going through that trial at his lowest, he read Job in the Bible because Job was. Job went through trials and he was like, job's trials were worse than mine. But he said so many times in Job, which I've never noticed this, Diane, it says, look, look at the animals. That God gives a directive to look at the animals because they're cared for. And that's a lot what the documentary is about. That God knows every animal that's there. He cares for them, he knows what they eat and their life cycle and all of that works together. So I think it's really cool about animals.
- [53:11]
Diane Bowden
I just think it's a light hearted time for me. If I go to someone's, if I'm on someone's land that has chickens and goats and it just, there's just something like you said, very simplistic about it that brings me joy. The last thing I was going to say is I've been going with friends to comedy shows. It's a great double date night. You have to make sure. Your friends like the same kind of comedy as you do. You do, because you never know what someone might say. But that's been something that we've been trying to prioritize as a couple. It just laughing together. That is really fun for us.
- [53:44]
Jenny Uridge
Okay, so you have broadened your scope, broadened your audience, broadened your guests, broaden your topics, tell people where they can find more.
- [53:51]
Diane Bowden
Absolutely. So on the web, it's actually, you can go to www.dianeboden.com. that'll take you to minimalist moms podcast.com that I still haven't changed, but it's Clear Intentions Podcast. Wherever you get your podcast. I'm still@minimalist momspodcast on Instagram. My personal is Diane Bowden. But, yeah, I'm sure you can find me. I'm pretty Googleable.
- [54:14]
Jenny Uridge
I don't think that that matters. Like, I really think you are the Minimalist mom and that it's Clear Intentions with Diane Bowden, the Minimalist Mom. And Austin Kleon said something a long time ago. Well, I don't know when he said it. It's in his book. And then we talked about it, but he said, this has really stuck with me. So talking about, you know, some things really stick with you. He said, don't throw any of yourself away. And I thought, I mean, especially even in this case, Diane, it's like, isn't there. There's a pressure. There's a there. I know. Who makes that pressure? Who gets to decide that you have to have, like, such. I never know if you say niche or niche, so I avoid the word. But, like, I. I don't know. So. But who. Who has. Who has the authority to say, you have to be in one lane and you have to niche down. Niche down. I hate that word. I like it. Yeah, I like what Austin said. Like, don't throw any of yourself away. And all of the backstory and all the work that got you to this point, that matters. And so to me, you're both. You're all. You're all of it.
- [55:16]
Diane Bowden
Yeah, I'm just over here. I'm going to continue trying to whittle away at what's superfluous in my life. Living with clear intentions. Those will obviously pivot as seasons change, but hopefully, like I said, I can control what I can and release the rest.
- [55:32]
Jenny Uridge
I love it, Diane. What a gift. Here we are together again, and someday, people will see pictures of us together at Cuyahoga Valley National Park. Thank you so much for taking your time with us today.
- [55:42]
Diane Bowden
Oh, thank you so much for having me, Jenny. It was always a joy talking to you.