Podcast Summary:

The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast, Ep. 1KHO 552
Title: Why Sick Soil Means Sick People (And How to Fix Both) | David Montgomery & Anne Biklé, What Your Food Ate
Date: August 19, 2025
Host: Ginny Yurich
Guests: David Montgomery & Anne Biklé

Overview

This episode explores the deeply interconnected relationship between soil health, farming practices, and human well-being, drawing on insights from David Montgomery and Anne Biklé’s book What Your Food Ate. Through practical discussion, memorable science, and stories from their research and personal lives, Ginny and her guests illuminate why the way we farm directly impacts both the nutritional content of our food and the rates of chronic disease. They explain the pitfalls of chemical-dependent agriculture, the importance of the soil microbiome, and the promise of regenerative farming, all while offering empowering, hopeful advice for families and eaters.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Origins of Their Work Together

• How a biologist and a geologist became passionate authors about soil, farming, and health
  • Anne’s background in biology/natural history complements David’s background in geology ("the dead stuff: rocks") [01:59]
  • Their journey started unintentionally when observing changes in their own garden’s soil [02:30]
  • “If you can change the soil health, then you relate that to being able to change your own health.” — Ginny [03:25]

“You Are What Your Food Ate”

• The phrase encapsulates their main thesis: The health of our food is rooted in the health of the soil
  • “It matters how we farm. ... The way that we farm has a big influence on what’s in the soil, in and around the roots of plants, our crops.” — David [04:00]
  • Soil is the bridge that brings needed minerals and nutrients to plants, which in turn pass them on to humans [04:00 – 06:07]

Sick Soil, Sick People: Parallels and Modern Farming

• "Most of the world's farmland is sick" and so are many people; chronic disease parallels [06:08]
• Heavy reliance on fertilizers/pesticides in farming mirrors pharmaceuticals in health, propping up unsustainable systems [06:30]

Hydroponics and Organic Food Debate

• Hydroponic crops (grown without soil) can still be labeled "organic," which Anne and David find deeply problematic [07:09]
  • Hydroponics may lack crucial nutrients, phytochemicals, and microbial metabolites derived from soil [07:15]
  • “It’s not required. ... you will not know if it’s grown hydroponically or in soil.” — Anne [11:59]

The “Fab Four” Key to Human and Soil Health

• Micronutrients (e.g., zinc, iron, copper)

• Phytochemicals (compounds like beta carotene, anthocyanins)

• Microbial metabolites (e.g., ergothioneine)

• Fat balance (especially omega-3 vs. omega-6 in animal foods)
  [10:20 – 12:36]

• These “Fab Four” are maximized through healthy, living soil and minimized or absent in hydroponically grown or highly fertilized crops

Earthworms, Tillage, and Soil Life

• Earthworms dramatically boost crop yields, but modern farming has decimated them [13:12]
  • “Plowing is a natural disaster for worms.” — Ginny [13:12]
  • Glyphosate use and continuous tillage destroy soil life, leading to long-term fertility loss [14:17]

What Can Ordinary People Do?

• Start by paying attention to labels (though most are currently misleading)
• Support farmers using regenerative and organic practices, especially those with reliable third-party certification (such as “regenerative organic” labels) [15:10]
• "Becoming aware is essentially the first step." — David [14:17]
• Meet local farmers, ask questions about their practices [39:25]

Regenerative Organic: Defining ‘Regenerative’

• Regenerative agriculture: “Farming practices that build the health of the soil as a consequence of intensive farming.” — David [20:13]
• Soil health defined by robust, healthy microbiomes around the roots (the plant’s functional immune system) [22:46]
• Supporting and emulating the symbiosis between plant/animal hosts and their microbiomes is key [24:00]
• “When we talk about regenerative and soil health, what we’re talking about is practices instead of hammering and chiseling away and killing off these very, very important parts ... we want to work with it.”— Anne [24:42]

The Pesticide Misconception

• Counterintuitive truth: Heavy pesticide use leads to more pest problems by wiping out both pests and their natural predators [27:58]
  • “Pests rebound faster ... because you’re also killing off the predators as well.” — Ginny [27:58]
  • “Where do you think you find more pests? The places we use more pesticides.” — David [30:54]
• Conventional farming creates an endless loop of chemical dependence [31:54]

Health Harms of Agrochemicals

• Chemical cocktails in modern agriculture linked to birth defects, falling fertility, Parkinson’s, cancer, and ecological devastation [31:54 – 36:40]
  • “What we’re not thinking about is, but what else are they doing?” — Anne [31:54]
  • Overload of new, untested chemicals – regulators can’t keep up [31:54]

Giving Nature (and Ourselves) a Chance

• “If we just give nature half a chance to function as it always has, I think we could get a long ways with addressing and solving a lot of problems, not just in agriculture, but in other realms as well.” — Ann [40:40]
• Recounted their experiment restoring poor soil with wood chips and compost — simple, nature-aligned methods work [39:25]
• Relevance for families: Let kids be outside, eat whole foods, connect with farmers, empower body wisdom [42:34]

Body Wisdom, Ultra-Processed Foods, and Taste

• Animals and people have innate intuition (“zoo pharmacognosy”) to seek the foods they need, guided by taste and body cues [43:55]
  • Industrial food processing hijacks these instincts by faking cues with cheap flavors (salt, sugar, fat), disconnecting real nutrient presence from taste [44:27, 48:01]
  • "The basic problem with ultra processed foods is they've kind of hijacked our senses and we have lost the connection between nutrient density and how flavor and taste steer us naturally toward nutrient dense foods." — Anne [44:27]
• Families can retrain body wisdom by eating a variety of whole, seasonally fresh foods from trusted sources and tuning into taste

The Problem with Food Labels

• Many sustainable farms can’t afford organic certification due to cumbersome paperwork and costs, so labels can be deceiving ("Singing Frog Farm") [50:40]
• Not all “organic” products are created equal; direct connection with growers is preferable

Closing Thoughts & Childhood Memory

• The episode closes with Anne’s sensory childhood memory of smelling irises, highlighting human a deep, innate connection to nature and ecology [52:18]
• The book’s hopeful message: Everyone can take small steps (meeting farmers, improving garden soil, eating seasonally) to foster healthier land and bodies — and pass on a better world to their children [53:25, 54:08]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On soil as the foundation for health

  • "The way that we farm has a big influence on what’s in the soil, in and around the roots of plants, our crops." — David Montgomery [04:00]

• On the “Fab Four” nutrients for human health

  • "...Micronutrients, phytochemicals, microbial metabolites. The fourth of the Fab four is fat balance in our animal foods." — Anne Biklé [10:20]

• On hydroponics and the meaning of “organic”

  • "It’s not required. ... you will not know if it’s grown hydroponically or in soil." — Anne Biklé [11:59]

• On farming philosophy

  • "If we could make a regenerative philosophy ... the foundation for the conventional agriculture of the future ... that would really get us to where we need to be." — David Montgomery [20:13]

• On pesticides and pest cycles

  • "Where do you think you find more pests? The places we use more pesticides, not many people know this." — David Montgomery [30:54]

• On chemical overload and health

  • "There are simply too many chemicals out there to be conducting all of the safety and hazard tests that it would be prudent to conduct to truly understand what the effects are." — Anne Biklé [31:54]

• On reconnecting with nature and hopefulness

  • "If we just give nature half a chance to function as it always has, I think we could get a long ways with addressing and solving a lot of problems..." — Ann Biklé [40:40]

• On body wisdom and eating whole foods

  • "Our bodies evolved to match up how the taste and flavor of foods with our nutrient needs ... body wisdom serves humans remarkably well." — Anne Biklé [44:27]

• On misleading food labels

  • “The labeling thing is really tricky. It’s almost like it’s used to be deceptive in some instances, and it’s used to keep some people out that could be, you know, doing good things, but they don’t have the manpower or the resources to deal with all the paperwork.” — Ginny Yurich [51:34]

Timestamps for Major Themes

• [01:59] — Montgomery & Biklé’s origin story as soil authors
• [04:00] — “You Are What Your Food Ate”: Soil’s link to human health
• [07:09] — Hydroponics, organic certification, and the “Fab Four”
• [13:12] — Earthworms, tillage, and soil destruction
• [14:17] — How consumers can help shift agriculture
• [20:13] — Defining regenerative organic farming and soil health
• [24:00] — The critical role of the microbiome in plant and human health
• [27:58] — The pesticide paradox and long-term ecosystem health
• [31:54] — Health dangers of synthetic fertilizers and pesticides
• [39:25] — Restoring dead soil: practical lessons from their garden
• [40:40] — Empowering nature and children; the power of real action
• [43:55] — Animal and human body wisdom; ultra-processed food confusion
• [50:40] — Food labels, paperwork and barriers to entry for sustainable farmers
• [52:18] — Anne’s favorite childhood outdoor memory

Final Takeaways

• Soil health is the root of personal and planetary health; healing soil heals people.
• Modern farming’s chemical dependence degrades both the land and our bodies, but regenerative methods and simple practices can restore both.
• Marketing and labeling often cloud the real story — seek direct relationships with growers and rely on body wisdom.
• Practical change is possible and empowering, whether in your own yard or local foodshed, and even small steps ripple outward.
• The episode leaves listeners inspired to reconnect with nature, trust their senses, and advocate for food grown in healthy soil — for the sake of children, future generations, and the Earth.

For more: read David Montgomery and Anne Biklé’s What Your Food Ate, The Hidden Half of Nature, Dirt, and Growing a Revolution. Visit local farms, experiment in your garden, and let nature (and taste) be your guide.