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- [00:02]
A
Hey friends, it's Ginny from the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. This September, Every Sunday we are easing into Homeschool Together. If you're new, curious or just craving a calmer rhythm, these four bonus Sunday episodes will help you start the week with confidence. We're talking real life learning like board games and baking, math, social and emotional health, simple routines, screens that don't run the show, and getting outside so our kids minds and bodies thrive. Even if you don't homeschool, you'll find practical ideas for family life, weekends and school night sanity. Today I'm joined by Raven Kramer to unpack unschooling. So pour yourself a tea or coffee, take a deep breath and press play with me every Sunday this month. Make sure you're following the show and share this episode with a friend who needs some homeschooling encouragement. Let's step into the week steady, supported and a little more excited to learn together. Fall is about to be in full swing and because it's already starting to get a little chilly in the mornings and evenings, I've been slowly but surely refreshing my wardrobe with pieces that actually work. Things I'll wear on repeat, not just once. That's where Quince comes in. They make it easy to stay warm, look polished and save money, all without sacrificing quality. Speaking of chillier temps, I'm absolutely loving the Mongolian cashmere gloves I recently got because my hands seem to always be cold and I can easily toss them in my purse or backpack just in case the weather changes quickly. I've also been eyeing their wool coats. They look totally designer but cost a fraction of the price and they're 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters. They start at just $50 and are incredibly soft. What makes Quince different is how smart their model is. They partner directly with ethical top tier factories and cut out the middlemen so you get luxury quality clothing at half the price of similar brands. It's a wardrobe upgrade that feels smart, stylish and effortless. Honestly, I've even been browsing their bedding and travel bags lately. Quince is turning into a one stop shop around here. Keep it classy and cozy this fall with long lasting staples from quint. Go to quince.com outside for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com outside Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Erich. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside and I have on today a mother that I have been following for a long time. She inspires me most days that I'm on the Internet, you know, like, her things pop up and I'm on the Internet and I see them and they inspire me. Raven Kramer, Welcome. Hi.
- [02:23]
B
Oh, my goodness, what an honor it is to be here. You're everything you share inspires me.
- [02:28]
A
Oh, look at this. We inspire each other. And you have this phenomenal Instagram account that is well over 200, 000 people following, and it's about unschooling. I mean, it is absolutely incredible. And then you also are co founder of this wild school, Tampa Bay. So you are sharing all of these videos of just being out and about in the community and doing education in a way that is wildly different from the vast majority of the population and even historically the vast majority of the population, you know, for the last several decades. So can you give us a little bit of your backstory? So you've got four kids and you are unschooling. I don't really like the word, do you?
- [03:10]
B
I actually don't either, because people then kind of put you in a typecast, so they're like, oh, so your kids run your life? And I'm like, no, where would that come from? Like, why would that be? What's happening with Unsull? And they're like, they do whatever they want.
- [03:23]
A
Yeah. It's a. It's a bad word, though. It's a bad word. It seems. It makes it seem lazy. It makes it seem not important. It makes it seem fluffy.
- [03:33]
B
Yeah. Or that we just, like, our days are just abyss. And my kids, like, someone asked me, they're like, so are your kids on TikTok all day? I'm like, first off, my kids never going to like that or an iPad or anything like that. They watch one hour of educational TV a day. Like, we're so far from that realm. So, yeah, it is really funny to see what people think of as unschooling versus, like, it's just letting my kids lead their own education and trusting their process of they're going to learn what they need to learn, when they need to learn it, and letting their interests take the lead of learning.
- [04:05]
A
Okay, so it's a big leap. How'd you end up there?
- [04:08]
B
So I've always known I wanted to homeschool. Like, before my husband and I even have kids, we were like, we want to homeschool. We thought we wanted a giant family. We thought we wanted 12 kids. So settling on four felt really good.
- [04:18]
A
We'll back up just a Little bit. What led you to wanting to have this big family and a homeschool?
- [04:23]
B
I come from a broken home. I have a really hard backstory. Both my parents were drug addicts. So my whole life I was like, I want to be a mom, and I want to, like, reclaim what I didn't have and give my kids, like, all the things I didn't have, like, relational wise. I mean, sometimes that borders into some of the things wise, but truly, like, relational wise. I wanted my kids to, like, have this family. And I always pictured, like, just a big family full of love. And, like, four kids is a big full of love. I found out. So, yeah, I really came from just, like, kind of my background in my heart of having kind of a rougher childhood and a rougher life of, like, I just want to give the best life to as many kids as possible.
- [05:00]
A
Raven, that's incredible. So then what's the bridge there? I think it's always really interesting when a person can figure out what they want to do even though they didn't experience it.
- [05:12]
B
Yeah, I think just like, watching my parents and seeing their story or just watching all of our stories play out, like, and now as an adult, I can learn, like, my parents were just in their own pain and in their own hurting and in their own suffering, and that's why they turn to so many of the things they did. And so a lot of, like, my journey, too, has been just, like, healing all this stuff in me so that, like, I can comfort my own pain, I can be with myself. And that's also a big part of, like, my education with my kids is, like, I want them to, like, be able to be aware of their emotions, to be able to bring comfort to their emotions, have secure attachment with both my husband and I, because I believe if you can have that bedrock alone, you're going to thrive in all of life.
- [05:51]
A
So you decide way at the beginning, before you even had kids. We're going to be a homeschooling family. At that point. Did you know what unschooling was?
- [05:59]
B
No. When I first started homeschooling, my only idea of homeschooling was homeschooling. So when I started, I actually started with, like, all the good and the beautiful curriculum. No hate on that. If anyone uses that. It did semi work for my son, but I did not like this rigor and structure. And I'm a very type B person in general, so it was just, like, not meshing necessarily. It was teaching my son, but I did not like, like, we're Going to do math and science and history and, and all these things at like 5 years old. So that's when I started to kind of look into like what other options even are there for homeschooling. And that's when I found more of the unschooling people. And I was like, oh, this is like my, this is my type of people. And just I have such a huge passion for kids being kids. It breaks my heart that childhood is being stolen in American culture right now from our children. And I have such a passion of like, just let kids play and you will see the fruit of that alone. Because play is not just play to kids. They are actually learning when they're playing, when they're doing Hot Wheels, they're learning about gravity when they're playing make believe, they are learning about their emotions. Play is just so crucial and so important. So I was like, okay, forget all this. Like at the time I was like, we're not going to do any curriculum this year. We're just going to play and see where this takes us. And naturally, you know, my son saw my husband and I reading so he wanted to learn to read. And I was like, okay. You know, we did bring in like some phonics, some bob books, some different things of like, okay, we're going to teach you how to read because you want to learn to read now. And now I always say like we have curriculum and I use it far more as a guide than we are going to get through each unit as specified time. Like it's like, okay, we're going to, we're going to use this as we need this if we need this. And then I actually really prefer reinforcing with like I'm a big game person. So we play a lot of board games. Board games are like fun fact, the best way to teach your kids math. Like my just turned 5 year old has never done any sort of book work at all. Even though he would have just finished pre K. But that kid knows all, like all of his number bonds and stuff because he plays with dice. So he knows right away three plus four is seven, he knows four and four is eight. He knows those things naturally just because he's playing games all the time.
- [08:02]
A
Wow, I love that you started with the box curriculum. The good and the beautiful. We did the same thing and I think that's the point. You know, I have this book that just came out. It's called Homeschooling. You're doing it right just by doing it. And I believe that, you know, you're doing it right. Even if you change, even if you have some years where you're like, oh, I wish I would have done it differently. Even if you're a box curriculum person all the way through, I think part of it is just going with what works for your home and going with your own personality. And a lot of times those box curriculums that get your feet wet and then what happens? And I would imagine maybe it's somewhat similar. What happened for me is I got a box curriculum. I don't know which one it was. It might have been the good and the beautiful. And I think we took like three things out of it. The huge box. Right. And then I never did it. I didn't do any of the rest. It just sat there. And what happened was, because, you know, is a time when you often have a lot of little kids, and so there's just free time, you start to see that they are growing. And in the world of everyone else, it's got to be measured. But when you're the parent and you're walking along right side of them, you see the growth and you're kind of like, this appears to be enough.
- [09:07]
B
Yeah.
- [09:08]
A
Is that similar story for you?
- [09:10]
B
Oh, absolutely. And being able to watch them thrive, not even it just being enough, but literally watching my kids thrive, watching them take one concept and like diving into it because they're so interested in this concept. Like, my second son wants to be an alligator hunter one day and like take people out to hunt alligators. We live in Florida. And so, like, he was super into, like reading all the alligator books and like going to all the alligator farms here and just was like, very, very focused on that because he had this goal vision of this is what I want to do. Now, in 10 years, will he actually want to be an alligator hunter? I don't know. But the fact that that got him interested in learning, like, that's. That's amazing.
- [09:49]
A
Yes. And it's cross curricular. So when you were talking earlier about you got your math and then you do your science and then you do your history. When you learn about a particular topic, whatever that topic is, and every human in the world has topics that they're interested in, you learn about all the subjects woven together.
- [10:06]
B
Yes, exactly. That is truly the beauty of unschooling. Yes.
- [10:10]
A
And so the tricky part is you don't know what it's going to look like. You don't know. And so you just have to trust that daily growth. Our oldest daughter, she became certified as a National Academy sports medicine personal trainer at 15. She took the course at 14, had never taken a course, never taken a test. Can you imagine? 15 years old, I love that. Never taken a test. And she wanted to become a physical trainer. And the National Academy of Sports Medicine has this incredible program. So she came to me one day and she says, I want to do this and can you call the instructor? And I want to take the course and ask him if he'll take me even though I'm only 14. And so she does this whole course and she passes the test. And then the other day she says, now I want to get my nutrition certification. Here's the books I need. Order them for me. I'm going to take it through, through this. But like she also couldn't spell, you know, when she was like 8. So you just don't know. Like she was one of the kids that I would have thought, oh, and she knows that, like we've talked about it, you know, for a while. You're like, this might not be working for this kid. You just don't know. And so you have, you're. It's a step out of faith.
- [11:16]
B
Yes. A huge step in faith. Yeah. And it's just really trusting the process and trusting our kids. Even when exactly like you're saying, you don't necessarily see it and you're like, oh, I don't know. But really trusting the process and leaning in.
- [11:27]
A
Yeah. And they can take the skills. Like, here's how I learned about alligators. And if a different career pops up 10 years down the road, they're like, well, I know how to learn. I know how to become interested in a subject and I know how to learn for mastery. And you can take those skill sets and transfer it to any type of situation. So let's talk about this. This is a big thing Dr. Peter Gray talks about. Now. Dr. Peter Gray wrote Free to Learn. It is a phenomenal book. It's not necessarily about homeschooling, but he's really an advocate for unschooling. So it's an interesting book because he didn't homeschool himself, but it was a very formative book for me. He says kids are biologically designed to self educate.
- [12:05]
B
Yes.
- [12:06]
A
So talk to the parent who's like, huh?
- [12:09]
B
Yeah. Children are naturally wired to be curious. Like their natural, their natural curiosity, their natural interest in play literally does lead them to self educate themselves. And it's a beautiful thing to be able to watch them do that. Like, because it's done then joyfully. And when things are done joyfully, when Things are done through play. They actually stick. Yes. Yeah.
- [12:30]
A
It's a big deal. He literally says we don't. It's so striking. He says we don't need to educate children.
- [12:39]
B
Yeah. We just need to provide the environment for them to be able to educate themselves. And then when you put them in a schooling system, that takes that away. Yeah.
- [12:48]
A
I mean, it's. It's really, like, mind bending.
- [12:52]
B
Yeah.
- [12:52]
A
You're like, wait a minute. We spend, you know, 15,000 hours of childhood, 16,000 hours plus gobs of money educating children. And here comes this expert. He's in his 80s, he's been studying this for decades and says things like, we don't need to educate children. You're like, well, that's pretty much all we're doing.
- [13:09]
B
Yeah.
- [13:10]
A
So what a mindset shift. Okay, so then, for the person who's. Who thinks unschooling is about doing nothing, and I know we've already covered it a little bit, what do you think would be. I think. Well, I'm going to tell you what my, My thought is. I like life schooling.
- [13:24]
B
I love that.
- [13:25]
A
I wonder what would be a better word for it.
- [13:28]
B
Yeah. I always say, too, like, homeschooling, unschooling, it's just the extension of being a family. Like, I really have just seen, like, someone asked me, they're like, is it hard to. To do this with your kids? And I'm like, well, was it hard to teach your kids to walk? Like, you naturally did that and didn't even think twice about it? So why then think twice about being able to teach them how to be a functioning adult when you are a functioning adult? You know, I can't for the life of me remember how do long division. Spoiler alert. But I'm still a fully functioning human adult who runs my own business, and it's, like, successful in the world's eyes. And. Yeah, yeah.
- [14:07]
A
Yes, it is. It's just an extension of parenting.
- [14:09]
B
Yes.
- [14:10]
A
You've already done it.
- [14:11]
B
Yes.
- [14:11]
A
You have already unschooled. Every parent who's listening has already unschooled.
- [14:16]
B
Absolutely.
- [14:16]
A
You've unschooled on the weekends, you've unschooled through the summer, you've unschooled in the evenings. Like, anytime you have open time and space. And you're kind of like being a family and you're unschooling because your kids are learning. So you talk about this. I like this phrasing. You talk about the phrasing. A new era of homeschooling. And I think this is Important because the. Some of the stigma of socialization that comes from an old era. That's when it was illegal. So it would make sense that if it was illegal and you had to hide in your home, that would produce a different type of kid. And also simultaneously, you also talk about the fact that the public schools are not pumping out a stellar product consistently. So there's two things happening at once. It's a new era of homeschooling because it's legal now, so there's lots of opportunities. And also the sort of standards are plummeting a bit.
- [15:06]
B
Oh, exactly. People's idea of like a homeschooled child is one where they only hang out with their family. They're not doing anything else. They're, you know, sitting at the dining room table for X amount of hours a day. They very much think of replicating like a school at home type situation. And that is just like such outdated and poor information. Because all the research that we're seeing coming in and coming in and coming in is that homeschoolers are actually thriving. They are far more social than their traditional school peers. They're doing far better emotionally than their traditional school peers. They're doing better psychologically than their traditional school peers. And academically, they're actually crushing it. Like, even though some of us, me included, are not testing our kids and not doing different things, the ones that are being tested who are homeschoolers are far exceeding their traditional school peers. So we have to get rid of this outdated model of this homeschooled bubble. My kids are literally the most social kids on the planet Earth. I actually said the other day, I'm like, at this point I'm concerned that they're too social. We were at the skate park, my love to skateboard and the skate. It's the St. Pete skate park. It's, well, it's actually a well known around the world skate park. It's a very huge skate park. And there was like a group of very punk rock, like traditional, what you would think of as like skater, like tattoo it all up. And I was kind of intimidated by these people. And my, my nine year old, my seven year old, my five year old are all stand up there with their skateboards, yapping it up with them talking. I'm like, across the park sitting at a bench and I'm like, okay, like.
- [16:36]
A
I've equipped them well enough.
- [16:37]
B
They know what's appropriate and not appropriate to talk about.
- [16:40]
A
Like, you're like, what are they saying? You have no idea.
- [16:43]
B
Exactly. Oh, I have no idea. Because I'm not a helicopter parent either. I have equipped my children well enough that I've got to let had those little reins of freedom of like, I can see you, I know you're not being physically hurt, but I don't know what your conversation is and I trust the process that what I've done so far is going to be enough and that I am here obviously if something is happening, happening. But they will talk to anyone, anytime. And homeschoolers have far more of an ability to talk to multiple age range, multiple age groups, multiple diversities. If they were in like a traditional school, they would go and sit with all the same kids who are all the same age as them, who are all similar socioeconomic status, who are all, all similar diversity status as them. Whereas in our unschooling lifestyle, they're talking about the punk rock skaters, they're Talking about the 80 year olds at the store, they're talking with, you know, they're playing with little, little babies at the park. Like, they have like a wide range and can look people in the eye and have a conversation with anyone. Like, I actually just sent my 9 year old to the fish market of like, hey, I want you to go to the fish market, I want you to get this cut of salmon and I want you to come back because it's like, you know, maybe eight blocks from our house. And he was able to go and do that. And I was like, yes. Like, this is like, is my tested life. Like, can you go into the real world and function well in the real world? And I'm seeing that they can.
- [18:03]
A
The other day, my lamp broke. It's my bedside lamp and I use it to read late into the night because I'm always preparing for this podcast. It broke. It actually won't turn off unless I unplug it. And so I needed to find a new lamp for my bedside. And my favorite place to go, of all places to go, is Wayfair. Wayfair is the perfect place to go if your tableside lamp breaks. But it's also the perfect place to kick off your back to school and fall season prep. Everything comes so fast and they have an amazing selection of things, from cozy bedding and linens to storage solutions for every room, they always have you covered. Plus their huge selection of outdoor items makes it easy to find just what we need to transition smoothly into the fall. Besides lamps and linens, they even have playsets. We have the most incredible playset in our backyard that we got from Wayfair about six six years ago and the kids still use it constantly. Whether you're refreshing your workspace with a new desk or making weeknight dinners a breeze with quality cookware, Wayfair literally has it all. And with free fast and hassle free delivery, even on big stuff like sofas and dining tables, there is no better time to shop, get organized, refreshed and back into routine. For way less, head over to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's Wayfair W A Y F A I R.com Wayfair Every style, every home Healing takes courage, but it also takes the right support. What if it started with a step away from the noise, a proven approach and a puppy? Capstone Wellness is here to help with a unique model founded on faith and clinical excellence. For teen boys and young men struggling with trauma, mental health and addiction, Capstone Treatment center provides a safe place to begin their healing journey. Every boy receives a Labrador Retriever puppy on admission and takes that puppy home when they graduate. Paired with deep therapy work, these pups help teach responsibility, nurture attachment and bring families together. For individuals, couples or families who aren't looking for residential care, vine and Root Intensives cover months of world class counseling in a concentrated multi day package designed to retrace hurt back to the root. For over 24 years, Capstone has helped thousands of families on their path to healing. Learn more@capstonewellness.com 1000hours that's capstonewellness.com 1000 hours hey friends, it's Jenny Erst from 1000hours. Outside it's 2025. Are you still feeding your kids like it's 2005? That's where nurture Life comes in. They're a game changing meal delivery service made just for babies and kids ages 10 months to 10 years and they are saving my sanity. Nurture Life meals are fresh, fully cooked and ready in just one minute. That means when my kids come home from homeschool co op starving and each one wants something different, I'm not scrambling. Last night we were on the go so my crew had spaghetti and meatballs and Mac and cheese meals they love that I actually feel good about. What I love most is that Nurture Life takes the stress out of feeding my kids on those days when schedules are hectic. No guesswork, no begging them to try veggies. It's all dietitian designed, allergy friendly and yes, I've even snuck a few bites myself. You choose from over 50 rotating meals and snacks. Nurture Life does the Cooking and everything arrives at your door chilled and ready to go. So head to nurturelife.com 1000hours55 and use code 1000hours55 for 55% off your first order plus free shipping. Once again, that's nurturelife.com 1000hours55 and make sure you use my promo code 1000hours55. Even if you aren't a parent with young kids, you might have parent friends who struggle with mealtime. Make sure to share our code so our show gets the credit. Remember, put your little ones first with healthy meals from Nurture Life. Yeah. So let's talk about these couple buckets. Social is a really big deal. The books I'm reading say the competency of the future is relational, that it's the human skills that are mattering now. AI is here now taking jobs. And for people that are going to be switching jobs a lot, which is going to be most of us, the social skills piece is really important. So it's something to think about. It's something to think about. How does your educational philosophy and your educational system line up with that? And if you're a parent, that's no, I'm doing the public school thing. This is my only option. You can consider then on the weekends and the summer, whenever you have the time and the time is yours to choose to be doing things like that. And you can see that if a child could step up and talk to a kid that's way older than them and not be intimidated or play with the baby or talk to a grandpa, that that would extend into success in long term life.
- [22:27]
B
Absolutely.
- [22:28]
A
It's a big deal. Okay. Emotionally this matters quite a bit too because if we're really struggling emotionally, it is hard to be successful in life. It clouds everything. So can you talk about with this new era of homeschooling, how that supports a child's emotional health and well being?
- [22:46]
B
Yeah. So when we learn about like attachment and different things with literally how we bond and successful secure as, as young children like the first six to 12 years, it's through like parent child interaction, being happy to see one another, having physical eye contact with one another, things like that. And when kids have that they have less of lack even in their like younger years. And so having even just secure attachment with your caregivers fills your cup up so much to a level that you don't even know then. I feel like a lot of unschoolers, especially our family, we are just so passionate about emotional health and speaking about our emotions, being just aware of what we're feeling. I make a joke. If we could get 80% of the world just aware of what they're feeling, we would see a different world because most people don't understand. Oh, that made me feel shame. Oh, that actually made me feel fear. A lot of things come up and reactionary emotions are like anger. Like big, big things where it's like, actually I learned myself a lot. I used to think I was a very angry child. I was actually a very lonely child. I was actually a very scared child. And even in adulthood now, I can be like, oh, like early on in my husband. I's married before because my husband. I learned all this together over the last 10 years. So it's been a beautiful journey of that. But in the beginning of our marriage, I didn't realize how lonely I felt in the load of motherhood. And I didn't. I wasn't communicating that. I had no idea. And so awareness is a big deal of our emotions. And then modeling that obviously in front of our kids. Like, my kids hear me talk all the time of like, oh, I felt shame today. I really felt like I was not enough, you know, and they can like see that in action, see me bring comfort to myself in that, to be able to see me be full again. So I'm not in this like, lacking place.
- [24:31]
A
I find for my own self. The days that I'm pretty tippy are when I'm tired and when I feel like I have too much to do and not enough time to do it.
- [24:41]
B
Oh, absolutely.
- [24:42]
A
And I look at today's childhoods and a lot of them are tired. And it's different. It's different when you homeschool. Even though I feel like we don't have enough time, I'm like, I need more time. I need even more time than the time. I mean, that's a wild thing. Sometimes I'm like, I don't understand how people can, you know, there's 35 hours that's going to the school day. You're like, well, how what I can. I need 35 more hours and we homeschool.
- [25:12]
B
Oh, exactly. And it's true. The kids I see in traditional school, like all of our neighborhood kids are traditional school. I have one good friend who's traditional school. And the kids are so over scheduled. Like they get out of school. Then like, Mondays have the chiropractor, Tuesday they have horse camp, Wednesday they have this, and they have one Thursday afternoon for two hours where they can go and be kids and be free. And I'm like, no wonder why kids are struggling. No wonder why they're anxious. No wonder why they're sad and depressed. And like. Like, it breaks my heart that children as young as, like 8, 9, 10 are even using the language of I feel depressed. Like, one of our neighbor girls said that the other day. She's like, I'm just depressed. And I was like, let me. I literally was like, can I give you a hug? Because I was like, I am so sorry that you're feeling that way, honey. Like, that is just, like, heartbreaking that our kids are experiencing this. And what is that then? Setting the foundation up for adulthood.
- [26:00]
A
Yeah, right. I mean, that's the whole thing. There is this author named William Sticksread, Dr. William Sticksread. He writes with this guy named Ned Johnson. So it's Bill and Ned, and that's what they talk about. They say you can't just all of a sudden learn how to be happy or learn how to be content or learn how to be emotionally satisfied. Like, if you have 18 years of giving that up for the sake of a rat race, you're not going to easily slide into feeling differently as an adult. So there's this practice during childhood of learning how to be emotionally regulated and learning, look, the sleep matters and the amount of things I have to do matter. And so when talking about kids emotional health, homeschooling gives the gift of time. It gives the gift of space so that there's not these full days that take up all of their bandwidth. It gives the gift of sleep. And that's a gift for all of us.
- [26:53]
B
Oh, amen. Oh, my goodness. We know as moms.
- [26:56]
A
Yeah. Like, when people say, I could never homeschool, then you're like, well, I don't feel like I could really do that morning thing.
- [27:02]
B
I have said that time and time and time again to my friends who do traditional school. They're like. And exactly when I hear the comment, I couldn't homeschool, I'm like, I could not. Traditional school. I cannot wake up every single morning super early, pack everyone's lunches, feed them if we're doing a hot breakfast. Gosh, I gotta wake up like 5am to like, make a hot breakfast to get you out the door at a certain time to a certain place, and we're gonna sit in a car line for X amount of hours sometimes. And then I'm going to drive home and then I'm going to go and do the same thing in like six hours, pick you up, you're tired, you've used all Your bandwidth for the day. And then, you know, we're cramming in like, well, how was your day? Like, fine. Of course you're going to say fine. You're tired, like, you don't want to talk. You just want to veg out at this point.
- [27:44]
A
Yeah. So the new era of homeschooling is supporting kids socially, is supporting them emotionally, and it is supporting them academically. Now, this is the surprising part, I think, Raven, because it's supporting them academically no matter how you do it. And that's, I think, the thing that people wouldn't really understand.
- [28:02]
B
It's different.
- [28:04]
A
Some people might be doing second grade material in second grade and whatever someone has decided is third grade material in third grade. Some people may be doing that and then some people may be not doing that at all and just trusting that kids are biologically designed to educate themselves. So can you talk about that academic piece? Because I think there would be a lot of skepticism. Yeah, right. How could it possibly. You're not a certified teacher, you've never taught fifth grade before. Like all of those types of things come up. And yet in this new era of homeschooling, and I think the old era of homeschooling, these kids are doing just fine academically.
- [28:40]
B
Oh, yeah. Because so much of life we don't even realize is academic. Right. Like, my kids are super into Pokemon right now. So my son wanted to write his own Pokemon book on his own. He was just like, I want to do like, he wanted to like narrate us to us playing the game. And I was like, hey, like, let's get your notebook and let's like start writing about it then. And he was like, oh yeah. And he was like, well, what if we did like fictional characters? Like, instead of being Raven and Cephas, we were Aurora and Brock and we had this battle and I'm gonna own this rock type gym and you're gonna have whatever Pokemon you want. And so he literally wrote out like a five page story on his own in third grade of like, you know, Brock or Aurora came into the gym when her Pokemon died, she cried like.
- [29:21]
A
You know, narrating, and that's you, that's you're Aurora.
- [29:27]
B
And to watch him just take off on his own of being like, I just want to be able to write this down. I want to have this story forever. I want to make up these characters and do these things on his own. He was just like, I want to go do this another big one. Because people are like, well, what about math? Almost every Single board game has math and you do not realize it. Like Monopoly is probably a classic one. Most people think you're fast mental math with money and stuff. But like I was saying earlier, like my just turned 5 year old loves to play a game called Dragon woods, which is a dice game. And so he knows number bonds off the top. He knows four and three make seven. He immediately picked up those things just from the repetition of playing the game. We never sat down and we're like, we're going to learn our number bonds today. It naturally flowed because naturally in childhood you naturally want to play board games. We probably have like a thousand board games. That probably helps. But having that environment around them, right, to educate themselves, like bam. He is, I'm sure gonna be a math Liz. I have no doubt about it. All my kids, because they're all very, very big into games. And so games are a really great place to get just regular everyday math. Baking too. Like, bro, I love cookies. We make a lot of cookies. Like, I'm like, you know, we need a half a cup, but I've lost the half a cup. So what can we use? Like, can we use how many fourths a cup is this gonna take to get to half a cup? Because IBN lost the half a cup measuring cup.
- [30:46]
A
It's such a big deal. Because I taught math, I taught high school math for many years. And the fractions are what tripped the people up who, who were like, I'm not good at math. The only thing that they were tripped up on was fractions. They could do all the other stuff. And so what was annoying is that when you teach a kid algebra or algebra 2 or pre calculus, they're usually fine with fractions by pre calculus, but you know, some of those other ones, geometry, they throw in fractions into all of these concepts. So it's not that the kids didn't understand the concepts, it's that they didn't understand the fractions. And fractions are very tricky because you have this whole childhood where you're using counting numbers and you're counting out things all the time. You're playing board games, but you're counting out your candies and you're trading and all of this stuff, right? You're counting out your Pokemon cards. Kids are counting from the time they're really little, they understand that. Well, then you go to fractions and you're like, okay, in the normal everyday life that I've grown up with, four is bigger than two, four is bigger than two, but one fourth is smaller than one half and that is the part that's really tricky. I mean, it is a whole conceptual thing. And so to have that experience with the baking and to see the cup, the 1/4 cup is a lot smaller than the 1/2, like over and over again, that would help the kid to start to really understand the fractions. And that's where I saw that the trouble was it was never with the actual concepts of the algebra. It was the concepts with the fraction. So what an interesting thing. What are some of your favorite board games?
- [32:14]
B
Oh, my goodness. So my kids love Pokemon Battle Academy. That's like a big one in our house right now. Dragonwood is another favorite of ours. My kids actually just got into Catan, which has been very, very cool, Very, very fun. Monopoly is like my, my one son could play Monopoly all day, every day. Which is funny because I also play Monopoly so much in my childhood. Oh, Castle Panic is another really good one. That's more of a strategy game too, which my kids really, really love. Castle Panic. And then they, they of course, like the basics like Mancala and Battleship and different, like little fun ones like that. But we have literally a full game shelf at our house. Like I'm looking at your bookshelf and I'm like, that looks very similar to my game.
- [32:57]
A
And Battleship, you're learning about the grid. So that's math right there. It is really wild when you stop to think about it as a mom. So as a mom, there are some games that I don't like. I don't like Uno. I just think it's kind of boring. So I don't like Uno. But there's certain games that I do really like. What's a game? Like a top couple games that you're like, if your kid picks it, you're.
- [33:17]
B
Like, yes, I love Castle Panic. That's actually probably my favorite one right now. It is genuinely fun to play. They have like a junior version and the adult version. My, my older two can already play the adult version. Even my five year old can honestly play the adult or like the bigger kid version. So that's my one where they pick that and I'm like, yes, like, let's play Castle Panic. Or Catan is like really fun to get back into. I like didn't play that for a long time. So my older kids like, let's play Catan. I'm like, let's play Catan. And Catan's actually amazing because you have to think long term in Catan. It's not like short term. We're thinking like Role like, play by play. You have to like, think eight moves ahead of like, okay, what do I want the overall picture to look like? Which that was a really big learning curve for my oldest two because in the beginning they really struggle with that. They weren't grasping that concept. But as the more we play, the more they got into it, they're like, oh, wait, like, instead of just trying to get the development card every single time, if I save this, this resource, then I can get a city. And then if I save these resources, I could turn that city into a settlement and I can get two victory points from that instead of just trying to get like the easy victory points. So it was really cool to see that long term planning of their brains start to click on and be like, oh, wait, like we're. We can see a little bit ahead of just the right now. Which I feel like that's. Oh, my gosh, I wish I had that at night.
- [34:37]
A
Yeah. And it's just fun. What a childhood. I like chess.
- [34:41]
B
Oh, we love chess.
- [34:42]
A
I like Azul. That's one of my favorites. Have you played it?
- [34:46]
B
No.
- [34:46]
A
Do you have it?
- [34:47]
B
No. Now I'm gonna go have to get it.
- [34:49]
A
I'm sending you one. I'm gonna send it to you. You're gonna add it to yourself. Azul. That's one of my top favorites. My friend Missy told me about it. I like Bogo.
- [34:56]
B
Oh, Boggles Fun.
- [34:57]
A
Boggles fun. And there you go, you're working on your spelling. Even our youngest, she's like, is this a word? Is that a word? You're like, well, you're learning all sorts of stuff. I like five crowns. We play this game called peanut, but some people call it nerds or anyway, it's like a card game where you play solitaire on each other's. So those are really, really fun parts of childhood. And you've got time for it and it really matters. So that actually is feeding into the academics. Time for some life talk. Life insurance talk, that is. If you're like me, you probably have life insurance, but do you actually know how much you're paying for it or how much coverage you're getting? Odds are you might be paying too much for too little. And here's something not many people realize. If you only have life insurance through your job and you're suddenly laid off, you could be left with nothing. That's why I'm heading to select quote. For over 40 years, Select Quote has helped more than 2 million Americans secure over $700 billion in coverage. They're not a one size fits all company. They work for you in just 15 minutes. Their licensed agents compare top rated policies tailored to your health and your budget and they do it for free. You can even get up to $2 million in same day coverage with no medical exam. And if you have pre existing conditions like high blood pressure or diabetes, Select Quote partners with companies that can help. Life insurance is never cheaper than it is today. Get the right life insurance for you for less and save more than 50%@SelectQuote.com 1000 hours save more than 50 on term life insurance@SelectQuote.com 1000 hours today to get started. That's SelectQuote.com 1000 hours.
- [36:30]
B
Race the rudders.
- [36:31]
A
Raise the sales. Raise the sales. Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching.
- [36:35]
B
Over. Roger, wait.
- [36:37]
A
Is that an enterprise sales solution? Reach sales professionals, not professional sailors. With LinkedIn ads, you can target the right people by industry, job title and more. Start converting your B2B audience today. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Get started today@LinkedIn.com campaign terms and conditions apply. When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans. Send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom 60th and never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone. Learn more@WhatsApp.com and one of the things that you've talked about is the fact that there's some statistic out there that half, almost half of the nation's fourth graders are not reading proficiently. So I don't think there has to be this fear of judgment on your own homeschool.
- [37:47]
B
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Literally, almost half of our nation's fourth graders right now are not reading at a fourth grade level because kids aren't interested in reading. Because kids are handed a screen where they don't need to read. You know, and that's why too. I think it's just so important that parents just take a strong look at their kids screen time. I know that's an uncomfortable conversation for a lot of people to have because life is busy. Like you and I both know that it is far easier and easier in theory to hand your kid a tablet so you could get ready in the morning.
- [38:19]
A
Yeah. But it's only easy in the short term.
- [38:21]
B
It's only easy in the short Term, because then in long term you've said it many times, boredom creates creativity. Like boredom is the gateway to creativity. Anytime my kids come and say I'm bored, I'm like, I'm doing my job. Then I'm so glad you're bored. Like you need to be bored. You need to be able to use your brain in a way. And so pulling back from screen time I think is so important. My kids are 9, 7, 5, 3. They've never had an iPad, never had a tablet, never had computer. We don't do like video games. They get like I said, one hour of TV a day and usually that TV is like, like TV shows from our childhood like hey Arnold and Courage the Cowardly Dog and like old school stuff that is not like this fast, colorful, bright format. Yeah. They've never heard of Ms. Rachel. They've like things that are like kind of common in our culture. My kids have no idea. And instead they, you know, can build a rock bridge or they can build a fort out of sticks in the backyard or their favorite thing to do right now is to take tape and like tape obstacle courses all over the backyard, which is like super fun.
- [39:26]
A
It's so creative. It's so great. We're trying this thing for this coming school year. Now our kids are, I've got have three in high school this coming school year and then one in middle school, one elementary. And so we're doing documentaries on Sundays and we've never really done that as a family, but documentaries are a fantastic way to learn about things you didn't even know exist. We watched, we just started last Sunday and we watched one on a volcano, an active volcano that erupted and people were on the island and there had to be like this rescue mission, mission. And so then what we have everybody do is come up with open ended questions that you could ask at the dinner table about the documentary. So you know, there are really cool ways to use technology. But to your point, less is more, less is more because it just makes it easier for you in the long run. Okay, so if people are concerned because they're like, well, who's, you know, people are going to say, who's going to make sure you're on track? Who's going to make sure your third grader's on track? You're like, well, not the system that's failing half of our fourth graders. Yeah, not them.
- [40:25]
B
Yeah.
- [40:26]
A
So I don't think you have to be super concerned about that. That's my opinion. And they're gonna grow. I think life is about growth. Are you growing every day and then you're gonna have a good life? Let's talk about this. This is something that I've thought so much about, but nobody really talks about it. The length of the school day is pretty much the same as a work day. I mean, in our area, the bus comes at 8 and it comes home at 4:30.
- [40:50]
B
Yep.
- [40:51]
A
That is a work day. And then they have homework. So adults don't have homework. It seems unreasonable for kids.
- [40:59]
B
Absolutely. How can they be in school that long and not be learning the content they need to learn when, like, even the average homeschooler who's using like, full book curriculum can get it done in two hours? And that's for like, exactly. Fourth, fifth, sixth grade. Not even the younger years. The younger years, you know, you're doing even less even now. You know, I. I do prioritize reading with my kids, but. But they love hearing stories. They love reading together because we're snuggled up on the couch and it's super happy. And so we can do like the amount of reading you would do in a school day in less than an hour. And so how can we put on these kids of like, not only are you going to have this work day because. Exactly. A lot of parents do have to work, so they put their kids in the before care and then they're in school and then they're in the aftercare and then. Exactly. We're picking you up and then we need to cram in. You know, if you're doing a sport, if you're doing an extracurricular, we're going to fit that in. And then we need to like, really tighten in and have dinner time and then like, have bedtime. And it's just like, that is so overwhelming and stressful and.
- [41:58]
A
Right. It's like, what if the adult had that? I don't think your average adult could handle that much pressure.
- [42:04]
B
No, exactly. If we had work for eight hours and then had to bring homework, that's like. Well, we'd be like, this is toxic. This is a horrible work environment.
- [42:11]
A
Yeah.
- [42:11]
B
And we're putting kids into that mold at 6, 7, 8 years old.
- [42:16]
A
Right. I think if someone came from another planet, they would kind of be like, what exactly are you doing here?
- [42:21]
B
Yeah, it's a lot.
- [42:23]
A
It's mirroring the adult life, but worse.
- [42:26]
B
Yeah. And on brains that aren't ready for that type of pressure. Yeah, I mean, I know. Exactly. I'd even argue adults aren't meant to live like that. Adults aren't meant to live with every single day of our hour planned and having so much to do. We're human beings. We're just meant to be. We're not meant to do constantly.
- [42:43]
A
Yeah. My friend Angela Hanscom, who wrote this phenomenal book called Balanced and Barefoot, she tells a story about how she went to a middle school. She was like, look, it's, you know, it's been decades since I've been in middle school. What is it really like? And so she said she goes to this middle school with the. The. Her whole hope was to stay for a couple days, to, like, attend classes for a couple days. And she said by lunch on the first day, she couldn't stand it anymore. Yeah, because it's just so awful, all the sitting and all the waiting. And she says all adults who are decision makers for kids should have to sit through their schedule for a week or something like that.
- [43:21]
B
Oh, absolutely. Exactly. Because none of us are mentally. And even the research shows you cannot learn more than about 20 minutes of someone talking the human brain. Once you hit about 20 minutes, your brain kind of starts to check out. And so. So why then, when we have this research, are we not only doing our segments, usually of classes, but then stacking them back to back to back to back? And the average recess now in a US school is like 15 to 20 minutes. And so is their lunch period 15 to 20 minutes. I need at least 35 minutes to.
- [43:50]
A
Leisurely eat and to have a conversation and all of those things. We're talking about supporting social, emotional, and their academic wellbeing. So the school day is long. And John Taylor Gatto says you only need 50 to 100 hours total to hit functional Literacy, where you could learn anything you ever wanted to learn ever again. So it's pretty wild. I don't think you need all that much time, especially even if you're working. You know, it's one of the things that people say, like, you know, this is a crazy day and age. You know, it's tricky with the economy and the groceries are so expensive. I mean, you may have to work and homeschool. You might have dual working. I mean, this is common. You might be a single mom and you're trying to sort that out. You don't need that much time for seat work. You maybe need none. Yeah, that's your choice. But if you are going to do some sort of a box curriculum that makes you feel a little bit more comfortable or some sort of online school or whatever your situation is, it just does not take that much time. You could do it in the weekend.
- [44:50]
B
Oh yeah, exactly. It really doesn't take that much time. And actually 30 to 40% now of homeschooling families are dual working families. Like my husband, I included, we're a dual working family. You know, I work probably three to four hours a day. My husband works a typical, probably like more six hours a day actually. And we just work, you know, I'll work an hour in the morning before he does like, you know, I'll do every single day, God bless it. I literally, my kids do one hour of quiet time and like I said, one hour of TV time. So quiet time does not have to be quiet, but it is. You have to play for one hour uninterrupted without me. You have to work out your own conflict with your siblings. You have to figure out what you want to do if you're bored, all those things. And so I work every single day, those two hours a day. And then usually I'll do like an hour after they go to bed because my kids go to bed at 7:30. So then I have an hour of work and then my husband and I hang out till we go to bed. So I do always encourage people, especially in our modern age where we have so many jobs available online. Absolutely. You can do have a dual working household and homeschool. I personally too have single mom friends who homeschool. They are literally true superheroes. I genuinely have so much respect and admiration for them as single mom homeschooling moms. They do have a solid community around them to help with childcare when they need it and to help with just the mental load of being a single mom. So to my single moms, I would always encourage you like get like if you don't have a community, start building a community because there are people out there who would love you and love to help you and love to come alongside and help you raise your kids because it does take a village. Well, human beings were meant to live in close community with one another where actually the least likely species to survive on our own. We actually genuinely do need one another. But it is possible. Like my friend is a single mom of two beautiful little girls and she is like the most amazing woman I know and kicks butt and she, you know, works on the off time, works after her kids are in bed, has a few days a week where she does have childcare, but still her daughter is killing it. She's a well rounded little girl, she knows how to read. She, you know, they're thriving and so, so anyone can do it. It does Take a little more work, a little more intentionality. And I'm not saying, oh, everyone should homeschool. Like, I'm actually the biggest advocate. Do what's best for your family. But if you have the hard to homeschool, it is absolutely possible for anyone.
- [47:00]
A
Because there's so much flexibility. You can do it however you want, whenever you want. And even if there's a lot of downtime, you don't have to be afraid of that. You know, in a typical situation, eight hours is filled, but it doesn't have to look like that. And when you talk about your kids being able to fill an hour uninterrupt. What a skill. What a skill. That is actually something that people are missing. I just read in the Tech Exit by Claire Morel that one of the teachers was talking about how the kids, when they start to sit to try and come up with their ideas, to write their paper, she's like, they freak out, like, in 90 seconds. They're like. They're not used to sitting with their thoughts, and they're like, I feel weird. You know, I need to, you know, get on my phone or. And they just have lost this skill. And so the downtime. I feel like the things that society would deem to be the negatives of homeschooling are actually some of the positives.
- [47:50]
B
Oh, absolutely.
- [47:51]
A
Like the fact that you're doing it differently. Like, the fact that maybe it takes less time. Like the fact that all their time isn't filled. Like the fact that maybe you're not a, you know, an actual teacher or certified. Like, all of those types of things can be positives. Like the fact that you're homeschooling in a home with a fourth grader and a second grader and, you know, a toddler and a baby. You know, that seems like it would be a negative, a net negative, but there's a lot of positives there, so it's really such an interesting thing. It's one of those things that you. In some ways, you have to walk it out to see it.
- [48:22]
B
Yes. Yeah.
- [48:24]
A
And then you see it, and then you're like, why? More reasons to homeschool than I ever thought I would. We cannot end this conversation without talking about getting outdoors. So you really are such an advocate of kids being kids, and especially kids being kids in nature. You talk a lot about boys. Does your boy have a space to be the boy? You know, this sitting. All kids need to move. But there's something especially specific, I think, about little boys that their bodies want to go and so we're putting in these environments that are not lined up with their biology. And there's going to be girls that are like that too. And some girls are going to be more happy to sit, but all of these kids have an inclination to move. So can you talk about how homeschooling. There's a couple things. Homeschooling gives you more time to be outside, and then the outside time aids in your homeschooling.
- [49:14]
B
Yes. Oh, my goodness. I always say kids being kids outside in nature is just as important, if not more important, than a child sitting down to do a math lesson. Because kids need to be actually involved in the world around them. They genuinely exactly. Were made to move, were made to run and climb and jump, and especially boys. Now my daughter is. I have have three boys and a little girl. So my daughter is around a lot of high energy boys. So she is, out of many girls, a more high energy girl. She's still not the same energy as my boys, though. Like, she will sit and color and my kids will, like, draw a circle and they'll be like, all right, I'm done with this. Like, can I go, you know, ride my bike to the skate park? I'm like, sure, go for it. You know, so we have to give our kids the outside time because that's where they're gonna thrive. That's where they're gonna get those energy outlets that's out instead of having this behavior at home that we're looking at as bad behavior, where it's not actually bad behavior, it's just they haven't had outlets to release the energy that they have inside them. And when boys are like, moving and stuff and doing like that, they are actually learning. They're becoming confident in their bodies. You know, my third son at a year old could scale up like 12ft and climb, like this, like, rope thing. I literally love this video. I'm so glad I have it because, like, he is just the most confident in his body. And when I go to the park and I see parents who like, are like, you know, helping their child up the. Up the stairs, and I'm like, no, you got to just let them do it. Like, you got to let them trust themselves. Because if you don't trust their bodies, they're not going to trust their bodies. And that's going to hold them back from so many things. And so I've seen my boys just take off and fly and. Exactly. I love the thousand hours outside goal because. Exactly. Like, we spend usually like five to six hours Outside both states. Like, all my kids are outside playing right now because they want to move, they want to be outside. And we live like in a city. We do live close to the beach and stuff, but we don't have like the beautiful woodsy backyard homestead that like so many people have this idea of homeschoolers have this. We live on a street, they have a small front yard and a small backyard. But let me tell you, to them, that's more than enough. Like, they like, will play with the little sticks we have. They will build obstacle courses, they will ride their bikes around, around the block. Like, getting outside is just so, so, so like the most important thing, if all you're doing is your kids are getting outside five hours a day and you're doing no academics and no anything else, you are doing more than enough, I promise you. Wait till they're 18 and see how they thrive.
- [51:40]
A
Yeah, they thrive. They thrive because all of that movement enhances their neural wiring. Yeah, there's all sorts of studies about that. So the complex movements enhance the brain structure and they protect the brain structure. So that is what kids do outside. They don't just do the same old, same old. They try new things. They're making their own obstacle course. Like that is challenging their bodies, which is challenging their minds. And that is, I would agree with you, it is more important, especially today, than seat work because we don't know what skills they're going to need or what knowledge they're going to need to have for the jobs that they are going to possess.
- [52:19]
B
Exactly.
- [52:19]
A
They are going to have to be quick and adaptable and flexible and resilient and risk takers. They are going to have to be all of those things with quick moving brains. And that's what the movement gives them. That is academic. The movement is learning outside, is learning all of those sensory experiences. So it counts. And I love your five to six hours a day, which was Charlotte Mason's. She said four to six hours a day whenever the weather is tolerable. And you're doing it in Florida, of all places.
- [52:49]
B
Yeah, I joke. We have, we always say we have three summers here. In the beginning of first summer, my kids will say, it's hot, Mom. I'm like, oh, yes, it's hot and it's uncomfortable. And it's okay to be uncomfortable because if you don't get uncomfortable and more comfortable here in first summer, you're not going to do okay in second and third summer because, yes, it is warm here. And of course, like they play in the water Table and they do the things. But it's like you can adapt. Like you can. It's okay to be a little bit uncomfortable. And you're going to make it through second and third summer too. And exactly. We're, we just, I feel like hit second summer. We had two days this week where it was 100 degrees and we were still at the beach. Like we were still outside.
- [53:26]
A
Okay, so first summer is the coolest summer.
- [53:29]
B
Yes.
- [53:29]
A
What's the hottest summer? Is it second or third?
- [53:32]
B
Second. Going into third. September is actually I feel like the hottest month in Florida. It is hot and it's very humid and even all the oceans are very hot by that, that point. Like it's, it is higher.
- [53:44]
A
Yeah. Because that's what I was always confused about. I was like, well, why don't people just go in the water? And I asked that question one time in Texas. I was speaking at a conference. I was like, why don't you just go swimming? They're like, the pool is hot.
- [53:55]
B
Yeah.
- [53:55]
A
I was like, oh, I never considered. We do not have any hot water in Michigan ever. It's always freezing. So. Okay, so then what's the fourth season? If it's first summer, second summer, third.
- [54:06]
B
Summer, then you have like two weeks of fall and like sprinkled of winter within a month. Sprinkled the spring in between. Like you'll have like a week of being in the 50s, which to us is winter. I know it's not to you in Michigan that's a nice spring day where you're putting on your shorts. Here we're like all dying when it's 50 and like, but it'll be like three days in the 50s and then it'll jump back to the 70s for like four or five days or six days. And then you'll have like another, you know, five or six days of being in the 50s. And you know, you kind of ping pong that in January, February and then March starts like the summer one and then summer again. Yeah. We have genuinely summer from April through October, like through October, all through October. It's hot here still. November, like mid November is when we start to get a taste of fall. Which is why it's funny in September when I see everyone being like, it's fall up north. And then we're like, we're in second summer still, which I genuinely, I love it. Like I'm a beach girl. We are originally from Chicago. So sometimes in like October I'll be like, oh, the leaves are changing back home. Like, that's so pretty.
- [55:10]
A
Yeah. But it only lasts like six days.
- [55:12]
B
Yeah.
- [55:12]
A
And then they're gone. And then you have nothing. So it is an interesting thing. So you do have all the seasons. Just you have first, second and third summer that are really long.
- [55:20]
B
Yes.
- [55:20]
A
But that should be encouraging to people that. That's one of the questions people ask. Well, how do you get outside when it's really hot or really cold and you're still doing it and you're valuing the fact that this makes kids gritty and that matters.
- [55:33]
B
Yeah.
- [55:33]
A
So one of the other things that unschooling and homeschooling has allowed you to do is to travel.
- [55:39]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [55:39]
A
As a family. And you can travel off season, you can travel when it's a little bit cheaper. But can you talk about how those adventures have created strong family bonds?
- [55:48]
B
Oh, my goodness. Like, so this year in 2025, we've actually traveled every single month this year and done different trips. Some bigger trips, like we, you know, all of us drove to South Carolina, some littler trips where we just drove, you know, across the saint. To saint. Across the state to St. Augustine. I'm based here.
- [56:05]
A
St. Augustine is so beautiful, isn't it? One of the oldest cities in the country or something like that?
- [56:11]
B
It is, it is literally the oldest city in America. And it is so cool because it's still like set up that way and there are reenactors and there are people still dress up like that. Like, it is. It is Gen I. My, I live in Gulfport, Florida. It is my first favorite city for forever. I love living here. My second favorite city, though, is St. Augustine. My family's actually gone at least once a year for like the last three or four years. We genuinely love, love that place. And so, oh my goodness, just the time that we all have together and like the closest we all get to have because again, we don't do screens. Whether it's an eight hour car ride or a four hour car ride. You're going to sit and we're going to all play the license plate game or we're going to play. We do a lot of like 20 questions where you're either trying to guess an animal or a Pokemon. So, you know, it's like I'm. Is it a fire type? Is it this type? Or like, does this. Is this.
- [56:56]
A
You're such a good mom. I love that.
- [57:02]
B
But yeah, it's. It creates so many opportunities for conversations and for building core memories together. You know, us like, exploring. Like we went to South Carolina this year, which was Charleston is also it Reminded me actually of St. Augustine. It's very beautiful, very historic. And like, as we're all learning, like, I love was like, I will never forget this trip. And then I kind of heard this voice in the back of my head being like, they're never going to forget it either. And I'm like, you're right. Like, we're both, like, getting to experience this amazing situation together. And like, for both of our whole memories, it'll be entwined of like, oh, my gosh. Do you remember, like, climbing that Ford and do you remember, like, surfing those big waves on the Atlantic? We don't have them here in the Gulf. And do you remember when we saw that beautiful Middleton garden and mom was geeking out over these flowers and I'm gonna remember if the flowers were so beautiful and, you know, so, yeah. It has made our family so close and so integrated together. And just being able to share so many life experiences together has been amazing. It's truly been amazing. And like, they're learning so much when they travel because you have to. You're on a different time zone schedule. You're not on your normal schedule. And so that's really teaching them to be flexible, to be able to handle certain situations, to exactly be uncomfortable, to not know what you're doing, and to be able to trust your parents, trust the process. And so I've seen them, like, be so exposed to so many different things. Traveling, and that's been really, really cool too.
- [58:29]
A
Oh, I got chills when you talked about that because I also think part of life is the opportunity as an adult to have another pass through 100%. What a gift, what a gift that is to go to these places and for you to learn again or to fill in gaps that we didn't have. You know, everyone comes out of their childhood with gaps in Lear, obviously, because there's a million things that you could learn about. So everyone has these gaps and you get to go back through. It's another pass through. It's another, you know, filling those holes that we all have from our learning journeys. And then you get to do it together as a family. It is amazing how much homeschooling is growing. You were just on the news yesterday. They came to your home doing a piece on homeschooling, doing, talking about unschooling as well. 30 to 40% of these families are dual income working families or single moms. That's a huge percentage. So this is on the rise. It is compelling. Yeah, it is the best decision we've ever made as A family. I do not regret it for one second. Can you talk to the parent who's listening and who feels compelled but is concerned about being able to afford it?
- [59:32]
B
Oh, my goodness. Like I said, there are so many jobs where you can work on your hours. We talked about how you actually don't even need, like, that many hours, even if you want to do, like, a more stricter academics and honestly like that. There are several states, Florida included, that have specifically homeschooling scholarships where your kids can genuinely get money towards educational supplies. And not only educational supplies, but if you want to. If you need to work two hours and you want to bring in a tutor for two hours, like, it will help fund that. If you. You know, it'll even like the Florida homeschooling scholarship specifically. We can get fishing gear. We can get paddle boards. We can get Legoland passes. You can go to Disney for a day. You can. There are so many, many ways. And also so many companies have homeschooler discounts. Like Barnes and Noble. I know. Does a homeschool discount. Like Shore Learning does a homeschool discount. Like, they have certain weeks where homeschoolers get, like, big discounts for things. If you want to go that route of I. For my own sake, I want to have excellent curriculum or whatever. There are just so many resources out there that you can find. Check your state. If your state has a homeschooling scholarship, check for all the different homeschooling discounts we get. Homeschooling moms get a lot of discounts for certain things. Even homeschooling days. Like a lot of museums, all the national parks. Did you know when you're in fourth grade, you can go to every single national park for free? My son just signed up for that this last summer. That was amazing.
- [60:48]
A
And you're like, you know, when you're a homeschooler, you could be like, well, this year we're doing fourth grade math, and next year we're doing fourth grade English. Or if you got a couple different kids, you got it for, like, year over year. You know, you've got kids in that spot. It is a thing, I think. I think it affords you the opportunity to try and figure out something that's hard. If it's something that you really want, and you're like, I don't quite know how we can get there. That's the opportunity to try and kind of tinker around with it and see what you can come up with. And sometimes you can take into consideration the fact that, well, you're not going to have the pressure to buy the name brand clothes. You know, there might be some other things that you don't spend money on. My friend Mandy Plandy has these meal guides and she's feeding her kids for like these great meals. No, nothing processed. And you know, they're fairly cheap. I mean per, per person cost. And she makes all of their own snacks. So like maybe you don't have to buy prepackaged things. You know, there are some things that maybe in the long term would be.
- [61:48]
B
A little bit cheaper.
- [61:49]
A
And you just learn to love the simple.
- [61:52]
B
Yes.
- [61:53]
A
You know, your vacations are going to be cheaper because they're going to be off season. So there may be some things that even it out a little bit as well. You have to kind of walk it out to see.
- [62:02]
B
Oh yeah, my family is a six person family living in a thousand square foot house with one bathroom. Like we, we have one car exactly like we started very small.
- [62:11]
A
Yeah. See. Okay, now that's an example of right, you're like, okay, we're gonna utilize the outdoors. We're gonna live in this smaller space to decrease our outgo. We're going to one car. That's a really big deal. And you know what, what if you take into the account, okay, we're not feeling pressured to buy smartphones. So how much is a smartphone? You know, most nine year olds have one. So like there's that expense. At some point you're going to have four kids that would be, you know, pressured to have a smartphone. So there's these different kinds of expenses that maybe we wouldn't necessarily consider that might change if you choose this lifestyle. So just lots of things to consider. I love what you're doing. People have to follow you on Instagram. You will get, you don't post every day but like when you do post it is just really encouraging. I'm always encouraged. It's at Raven and Kramer and I'll make sure I'll put that in the show notes so people can find you. We always end our show with the same question. But I just want to say thank you. Thank you for what you're spreading in the world and helping to remind us that there is a vibrant life in this homeschooling world. And no matter how you do it, there is a lot of lot to love, a lot to look forward to and a lot to celebrate. That's how I feel when I view what you have, what you put out there. I mean that's, it's just so encouraging. So I Want to thank you for that. We always end our show with the same question. The question is, what's a favorite memory from your childhood that was outside.
- [63:34]
B
Rainbow tubing? That are not rainbow tubing. Tubing down Rainbow river, which is actually like, a spring here. And it was. I remember, like. Like, as a child being like, this is like Jurassic Park. Like, wait, where is it? The original Jurassic Park. And it is so beautiful. And actually, I said. I was like, oh, I need to take my kids there, because it's probably, like, a couple hours away from us. But that was, like, one of my favorite memories as a kid was tubing down Rainbow river and, like, seeing a manatee for the first time in that place. Like, manatees are, like, one of the greatest animals that God has made. They're so cute. Cute. I love them so much. A little. I mean, they're giant. They're not. They're cute implies small. They are literally humongous animals. But that is something I will definitely always remember.
- [64:19]
A
What a thing. We've tubed at Kelly park in Apopka.
- [64:24]
B
Oh, that's beautiful, too.
- [64:25]
A
Yes. And there is a spring there where you can do a tube ride, and it is just stunning. You do you feel like you're in the tropics. You feel like you're in a movie. I mean, what a. What an experience. What an experience. Well, Raven, I so appreciate your time. Here is to another wonderful, wonderful school year. If parents are feeling compelled, they can follow along with what you're. What you have going on. You have a guide to homeschooling. So I'll make sure. I'll put a link to that in the show notes. Thank you for being here.
- [64:53]
B
Seriously, thank you so much for having me. Like, you are literally, genuinely like, like I said, the person really, who started all of this for. There's so many of us. Like, I wouldn't be where I am today if I hadn't seen so many things that you're sharing and doing and advocating for. So, like, you are literally the forerunner for all of us now who are, like, with our littles, starting to just step into these things and share these things. So, like, thank you so much for what you do. You are genuinely like, the queen. All of us, like, really admire you. Like, I personally very much admire you of what you do. And when I make a ball than free, I could not believe how, like, down to earth you were because you're such a big deal. And you were just like, hey, how are you? And I'm like, she's talking to me. Right now. This is the most famous person I'll ever want to be. Like, because I don't care about meaning like, a Kardashian. No offense to them, but, like, like, I like. You're just amazing. So thank you for all you do. Thank you for having me. You're the best.