← The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
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- [00:01]
A
Fall is about to be in full swing, and because it's already starting to get a little chilly in the mornings and evenings, I've been slowly but surely refreshing my wardrobe with pieces that actually work. Things I'll wear on repeat, not just once. That's where Quince comes in. They make it easy to stay warm, look polished and save money, all without sacrificing quality. Speaking of chillier temps, I'm absolutely loving the Mongolian cashmere gloves I recently got because my hands seem to always be cold and I can easily toss them in my purse or backpack just in case the weather changes quickly. I've also been eyeing their wool coats. They look totally designer but cost a fraction of the price. And their 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters. They start at just $50 and are incredibly soft. What makes Quince different is how smart their model is. They partner directly with ethical top tier factories and cut out the middlemen so you get luxury quality clothing at half the price of similar brands. It's a wardrobe upgrade that feels smart, stylish and effortless. Honestly. I've even been browsing their bedding and travel bags lately. Quint's is turning into a one stop shop around here. Keep it classy and cozy this fall with long lasting staples from quince. Go to quince.com outside for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com outside Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Yurch. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside and I just read an endearing book. I didn't even know how much I was going to like it. It's called Good Grandpa Stories from the Heart of Grandfatherhood. And. And the author, Grandpa Ted Page, is here. Welcome.
- [01:29]
B
Thank you so much, Jenny. It's thrilling to talk with you about the book and have a good conversation.
- [01:36]
A
Yes. Okay. I have to tell you something. We have had, I don't know, 550, 570 interviews, something like that. It's getting close to 600. And you are the only person ever who has sent a letter. Because people, like, often send a letter with it and it's like a packet of information. You are the only one who's ever sent a personalized letter with. With the book.
- [01:55]
B
Really?
- [01:56]
A
Yes. Yeah. Dear Josh, thanks for your interest in learning about my Good Grandpa project. I'm very excited by the prospect of sharing my book with 1,000 hours outside. I mean, it's like personalized.
- [02:07]
B
Yeah. You know, I've Had a marketing agency for 25 years. That's, that's what I've done in my career. And the worst thing to do in marketing is to make something seem like, you know, it isn't personal, right? So it really helps to connect with people one on one. Just, just like you do with your podcast. I mean, you're talking to a lot of people at once, really. But, you know, it's, it all starts with that one on one personal connection.
- [02:35]
A
I was really tickled. I thought that was really, really special. I've got all sorts of notes on this book. I loved it so much. I, you know, you're feeling a need. You're talking about how in culture no one's really talking about grandpas too much. And you just portray so well. In this book, it's called Good Grandpa. It's out now. People can get a copy. You can get it for the grandpas in your life that you love, or you can get it for your husband so he can start to think about what kind of a grandparent he wants to be, what kind of a grandpa. But you portray so well, Ted, like how exciting it is. And I, I guess I can't really wrap my head around it. Like you say, becoming a grandparent is so exciting. Upon hearing the news of my impending grandfatherhood, I was so overwhelmed with happiness. I joined my wife Nancy in going bananas. I hugged her, I hugged my daughter and son in law. I hugged the in laws. I might have hugged the cat. Like you're talking about, just rush of emotion and, and you wept once the baby's finally here and then you drive through the night to go meet the baby. I think when you're a parent, but not quite the great at the grandparent stage, you can't really comprehend that, you.
- [03:39]
B
Know, it's, it's different. And I, I'll say this as someone who, you know, I was with my wife, you know, in, in the hospital room when the babies were born. And that was an extraordinary experience. I found that becoming a grandfather was just on a different level. And supposedly as a, as a writer, I'm good with words, but describing what that is like, it was a difference between sort of, you know, being responsible for another child, you know, or a new child in the world and my own life changing. Right. So, you know, going to the hospital room for the first time, I got a new name, right. I, I became Boppy, which is the name of the, the pillow which my daughter used. It's actually a company. I didn't know that, but yeah, it's a, it's a pillow used for, you know, support when you're feeding the baby. And my son in law looks at me and says, oh, you're boppy. So it was such a life altering experience that it was like being born into a different life. Do you know what I mean? That, that this was a different role that I needed to grow into.
- [04:54]
A
Is it partially different because it happens also when you become a dad for the first time. Right? So it's somewhat similar. Like, you know, you're, you weren't a dad, now you're dad and now you're grandpa. But when you become a parent for the first time, I think you're wildly freaked out. Is there a difference? Because you have a lot of joy, but you're also really scared. Is this a difference? Because you have that same joy and excitement but less fear?
- [05:20]
B
I think it's less of the day to day responsibilities. Not that there aren't plenty of grandparents who are the primary caregivers. There's millions of them in the United States alone and it's much more common in India and China and so forth. But I did find through conversations with many grandfathers from all walks of life that I interviewed for the book to hear their stories and gather wisdom, that part of the experience and part of the reason why it's life changing and you do feel a sense of joy and peace is because we're not necessarily the ones who are going to say, all right, get your soccer cleats on, we're going to soccer practice, or you know what, it's time for your, your cello lesson. It's like, why didn't you eat your broccoli? It's like, it's, it's, I don't have any of that. I mean, I, I, I help out, I'm there for my kids whenever I can to help with babysitting. But I'm also known for giving my grandkids chocolate for breakfast. And this has become a thing. You know, it's like the grandkids come over and it's my way of saying, you know what, I love you, life is sweet. And I don't have to be the one who's saying, well, does this fit into all the food groups? No, it's, it's chocolate. Does that make sense?
- [06:36]
A
Yeah. So it's like you get a lot of the high points without some of the daily grind. But why would you think then because you talked about this, you put it you in your journal, you write, I'm a grandfather of a heartbeat, like you're so excited. You say, what's it like to be a grandpa? Fantastic. The best thing ever. I've spoken with men who jump for joy in the middle of a restaurant when they heard they were going to become grandpas. The whole world changes in a way that explodes outward. Many of us thought we could never love anyone or a single thing as much as our kids. Grand kids, however, take the cake. But some seem indifferent, some grandparents. Why? What do you think happens there? Like, why are. Why do. Like, we've got great grandparents in our life. Like my husband's parents. My parents, they're wonderfully loving, and they come to stuff, and they're engaged, and they're supportive, they're loving, they're encouraging. They're there for you at the drop of a hat. I mean, it's just all the things. Right. But then some are very indifferent or. Or disengaged.
- [07:34]
B
Yeah, there's, you know, there's plenty of grandparents out there who, you know, you know, I can't judge, you know, but, you know, retirement communities in Florida, what have you, and they worked hard their whole lives, and that's what they want to do. They want to play golf or, you know, play with their friends, you know, in a retirement community. And again, I'm not saying I'm better than anyone in any part of that world, but it is interesting. And I know you have a lot of young mothers listening, and I do think that there is an aspect of this which is like, how do we in our own families, you know, whether it's young moms or young dads, how do we navigate our relationship with our grandfather and our grandmother, you know, because I think, you know, boomers, and I'm the tail end of the baby boomers, you know, there's kind of a bad rap out there that's like, the boomers are not helpful enough. Right. In engaging the kids. And a wonderful writer named Laura Donovan, she reviewed the book on Goodreads, and she commented on that, like, no, this is a way for grandfathers in particular to be really engaged and part of families. So I think through the storytelling and, you know, hearing from all these different types of, you know, grandfathers, you know, veterans, religious leaders and so forth, that it kind of shows up, you know, without being a classic how to book, but more of like a life map for how grandfatherhood fits into the whole family experience, whether it's young parents or the grandparents themselves.
- [09:16]
A
Yeah, I like that. And you specifically called that out, like, they're really is a whole here in culture of People talking about grandparents, especially grandfathers, and how important they are. And then you said you've had all sorts of people who have written into you, and people can write into you. If they go to good grandpa.com they can write in to use the contact form and share their stories. I ask at the end of every podcast, what's a favorite memory from your childhood that was outside? And often people talk about experiences with their grandparents. So here it is, like, such an important piece of your life, and yet to your point, it's not being talked about that much. So a book like yours is really important. What would you say to an adult child who wanted to foster a better relationship with the grandparents? What, like you don't know what you don't know, right, Ted? I don't know what it's like to feel like a gram to be a grandma. So what does the adult child of little kids need to know to help make that relationship the best it could possibly be?
- [10:15]
B
One thing I heard quite a lot was that there's a tremendous yearning for the grandfathers I spoke with, and I believe you know, grandmothers as well. But, you know, I'm a grandfather, so I wrote about the grandfather experience. But so many grand grandpas just want to be there with the grandkids. And there's one grandfather. I didn't write about this in the book because I didn't want his, his family to feel bad about it, but it is a reality. You know, his grandkids live across town, and his son, you know, outright was not truthful to him about whether, or not, you know, they could get together on a certain day so that, so the grandfather could go see the, the granddaughter. And he happened to stop in anyway and found that, in fact, they weren't tied up, they weren't busy like the son had said. And it was deeply hurtful to this guy who loves his granddaughter so much, he volunteers at the child's school just so he can have a little bit more time. And then there's also long distance grandparents, right? There's a whole organization called the Long Distance Grandparent that coaches grandparents on how to, you know, use, you know, texting and Zoom calls and FaceTime and all these things just to have a connection. But there's a tremendous yearning to have that connection, to be there and to experience this very extraordinary thing we have as grandparents and the bond that we can make. And certainly in what I'm seeing from my own life and from the grandfathers I've talked to, that that time we spend with families can Make a huge difference. Like my grandfather. I was really lucky. You know, most guys I talked with never knew a grandfather, but my grandpa was epic. Like, he was like a World War I vet. He was one of the first pilots in history. He did aerial photography, reconnaissance over the over. Like Verdun. I mean, imagine me as a teenager and Gramp showing me photographs from above of the Battle of Verdun and telling me stories. It's like I had 10 years with him, right? And that was an extraordinary time in my youth as a teenager. And it happens that male life expectancy since 1950 in the US has increased by 10 years. So there's a lot more grandfathers out there. You know, we're getting better health care. We're taking care of ourselves. Knock on wood. I'm fine today. But that time that we have is a time to plant seeds of wisdom and love that these kids will take with them forever.
- [13:01]
A
This book is filled with incredible stories. It's called Good Grandpa Stories from the Heart of Grandfatherhood. Incredible stories about your family. And then also, you've talked to all of these grandpas all over the world. So there's a lot to learn and a lot to be inspired by and a lot to think through. How are grandpas grappling with hustle? Culture for children? So, like sports, youth, sports, travel, sports, horseback riding, all of the busy parts, Lots of homework, as well as technology.
- [13:29]
B
Well, the technology. I'll start with that. And I know that you've had on, you know, some great guests, you know, speaking to the dangers of technology. And it is a major sore point for grandparents in general that I talk with. They're deeply concerned about screen time and that childhood is going to be abbreviated and worsened by what's going on in technology. And all of that is true. It's a challenge. One thing I did in the course of the book is I have a chapter called Lost in the Amazon. And there's a story. You mentioned stories. This happened last year. There was a plane crash in the Amazon, and it was a mother and her children on this plane. They happen to be an indigenous family from Colombia. The children survived. The mother, unfortunately, you know, passed away at the crash site. And these children have to get out of the jungle. Right? That was the mother's last words. You've got to get out of here. Right? And. But they survived for, like, 40 days in the jungle with all these poisonous snakes and jaguars and all these things because their grandmother had taught them life. Like, here's the fruit to eat. Here's the fruit Nutty, all of these things. And, and then that it transitions in the book into saying, well, here in the United States, we don't have an Amazon jungle. But you know what we have, we have Amazon, you know, and it is the biggest purveyor of crap the world has ever seen with all this stuff. This technology which is, you know, on the face of it, you think is beneficial, but it has these hidden dangers. You know, like a, an indigenous mother in, or father in Colombia would never give a poisonous or a Piranha to a 12 year old as like a, hey, congratulations, you're going to middle school. But it, it's worse for us. It's worse because the phone isn't self evidently a poisonous spider or a snake or any one of these things. So that's, you know, I always advise my daughter, just turn it off. You know, just, just turn it off. Be together. You know, like we delayed getting a phone. I didn't know. Delaying sharing technology. But there is a flip side to it I found. We are the first generation of grandparents who have the Internet. Right, Right. And it gets a bad rap for all the obvious reasons, but it is, bar none, the best way to communicate and share stories the world has ever seen. My father and my grandfather never had this. And my blog, Good Grandpa, you know, it's one of many out there. 99% of them are grandmother bloggers who do a terrific job. It's like we're sharing stories, we're. We're building community, we're building connection. And you know, I mentioned this organization, the Long Distance Grandparent, like they're using FaceTime, which again, didn't exist. My parents, my parents were in Vermont. We were outside Boston. If I was going to have my kids see them, we had to drive three and a half hours. It's like we can have connection now. We can use these technologies to actually be together in ways that just weren't possible before and kind of extend, you know, if it's done right, to build a stronger bond.
- [16:55]
A
Mm. And you even talk about using the technology to write down your stories. You talked about a friend of yours, or maybe somebody that you just knew that you'd interviewed, but he had taken the story that he told his granddaughter and then turned it into an actual children's book. So even the technology to do things like that, like, you talk a lot about writing down your stories. This one was called the Surprise Birthday Party, the Adventures of Aria and Ducky. And it was like a sweet story about a man and his granddaughter. And they use technology To. To write it down. You had talked about how people used to do that with actual letters, like coming of age letters, and you would even have one in your family. But just really encouraging to write down your family stories, write down the things that you make up. And you had this. I thought this was such an important sentence. We can help our grandchildren reduce screen time, put the phones away, and read book after book after book. That is a hugely powerful thing. I've actually not heard anybody say, Ted, when we are the first generation of grandparents with the Internet. So you're the first generation of grandparents that can really help to mitigate the effects of this through reading books, through going outside with the magnifying glass, through engaging in the kitchen, through whatever it is, through playing Legos, through whatever it is that you can possibly do with your grandchildren to keep them off of a screen because the parents are pulling their hair out. That is a huge deal.
- [18:19]
B
Yeah. And being together outside, I think is. Is a big part of that. I'm, you know, I'm talking here from our place in Vermont, which is part of an old family farm, Willoughby Farm, and it was. It's like a central character in the book because we spent so much time here. And about 100 yards from where I'm sitting right now, our property slips off, and then there's a stream, and there's actually like a cliff going down the stream. There's a place where I used to play as a kid, and it's like a sheer wall that leads down to a brook. And it's clay. It's made of clay. Right now, when I was a kid, we would go there, we would rip clay off of the cliff, we would climb on it. It would be covered in clay, completely covered in clay, playing by ourselves, you know, brothers, cousins, making things out of the. Out of the clay. So my grandsons were here, you know, like, you know, for most of the summer. And I see them coming back from the clay pits, and they look like something out of a movie. Like, they are so covered in clay, it's like this green mud. And I'm thinking, yeah, we did something right here. You know what the parents just said, why don't you go play in the clay pits? You know, I don't need my iPad. You know, it completely covered in what looks like green mud. And they. It was. I had such a ball. But to be able to, like to share that, you know, to share that kind of experience, you know. And another thing I remember recently was, like, one of my grandsons, you know, he was Kind of messing with me. Like, he climbed a tree and he said, well, you can't get me here. Like, I was like being pickle monster, you know. So he climbs me up this tree and it says. And I said to him, henry, do you realize how much time I have spent in trees? I spent my entire childhood climbing trees. And my parents thought, you know, if he falls out of a tree, it's like, well, we'll just make another kid. You know, I was, you know, I had five, four brothers, we could make another one. So it was, it's, I think that's part of our legacy is, is to, you know, recognize that there are good things about technology, but there's so many answers outdoors. There's so many ways of building a connection with other living things in this world that inform how we can be our best version of ourselves.
- [20:44]
A
Yeah, I think it's a pivotal role that a grandparent plays and has never been more important than it is right now. It's exactly what you said. We can help our grandchildren reduce screen time. I think that's an amazing goal. If you can do that, that is a generational legacy that will carry on and it will be such a gift both to the child and to the parent who's exhausted and really struggling and doesn't necessarily want to give the iPad or TV time. But, you know, sometimes you're kind of at the end of your rope so the grandparent can fill in there. That is incredible. Time for some life talk. Life insurance talk, that is. If you're like me, you probably have life insurance, but do you actually know how much you're paying for it or how much coverage you're getting? Odds are you might be paying too much for too little. And here's something not many people realize. If you only have life insurance through your job and you're suddenly laid off, you could be left with nothing. That's why I'm heading to select quote. For over 40 years, Select Quote has helped more than 2 million Americans secure over $700 billion in coverage. They're not a one size fits all company. They work for you in just 15 minutes. Their licensed agents compare top rated policies tailored to your health and your budget. And they do it for free. You can even get up to $2 million in same day coverage with no medical examination. And if you have pre existing conditions like high blood pressure or diabetes, Select Quote partners with companies that can help. Life insurance is never cheaper than it is today. Get the right life insurance for you for less and save more than 50%@SelectQuote.com 1000 hours save more than 50% on term life insurance@SelectQuote.com 1000 hours today to get started. That's SelectQuote.com 1000 hours healing takes courage, but it also takes the right support. What if it started with a step away from the noise, a proven approach and a puppy? Capstone Wellness is here to help with a unique model founded on faith and clinical excellence. For teen boys and young men struggling with trauma, mental health and addiction, Capstone Treatment center provides a safe place to begin their healing journey. Every boy receives a Labrador Retriever puppy on admission and takes that puppy home when they graduate. Paired with deep therapy work, these pups help teach responsibility, nurture attachment and bring families together. For individuals, couples or families who aren't looking for residential care, vine and Root Intensives cover months of world class counseling in a concentrated multi day package designed to retrace hurt back to the root. For over 24 years, Capstone has helped thousands of families on their path to healing. Learn more@capstonewellness.com 1000hours that's capstonewellness.com hey friends, it's Ginny Erst from 1000hours. Outside it's 2025. Are you still feeding your kids like it's 2005? That's where nurture Life comes in. They're a game changing meal delivery service made just for babies and kids ages 10 months to 10 years and they are saving my sanity. Nurture Life meals are fresh, fully cooked and ready in just one minute. That means when my kids come home from homeschool co op starving and each one wants something different, I'm not scrambling. Last night we were on the go so my crew had spaghetti and meatballs and Mac and cheese meals. They love that. I actually feel good. What I love most is that Nurture Life takes the stress out of feeding my kids. On those days when schedules are hectic, no guesswork, no begging them to try veggies. It's all dietitian designed, allergy friendly and yes, I've even snuck a few bites myself. You choose from over 50 rotating meals and snacks. Nurture Life does the cooking and everything arrives at your door chilled and ready to go. So head to nurturelife.com 1000hours55 and use code 1000hours55 for 55 off your first order plus free shipping. Once again, that's nurturelife.com 1000hours55and make sure you use my promo code 1000hours55 even if you aren't A parent with young kids, you might have parent friends who struggle with mealtime. Make sure to share our code so our show gets the credit. Remember, put your little ones first with healthy meals from nurture Life you talk about. Okay, so this farm, it was a central thing in the book. Gramp and Graham ran the family summer rental cottage business on Lake Willoughby in Vermont. So part of the story is that you worked hard with your grandpa. And I thought that was a really interesting part, Ted, because, you know, you're talking about having the grandkids over and they're having chocolate for breakfast. And, you know, those are sort of the fun parts of grandparents. That's like, oh, they let me have this or let me have that.
- [25:05]
B
Yeah.
- [25:06]
A
And I think sometimes we forget about that other part of it that really cement your relationship. And you told a specific story about moving a bunch of boulders, basically, with your grandpa. Is that right? Big rocks.
- [25:21]
B
Well, they certainly looked like boulders to me. It was moving rocks in a brook.
- [25:26]
A
For, like, a retaining wall or something. And, like, he's like, put that one there. Put that one there.
- [25:31]
B
Yeah, basically. Yeah. Because you get a high, you know, a ton of rain, and then the water rushes down from the mountains and can wash away the banks. And, you know, Gramp, he wasn't a grandfather, and I think this is common with his generation. He wasn't the guy who's going to say, hey, Teddy, I love you. Never once heard that. I don't think my cousin, her brother's heard it either. What we did here was grab a shovel, and you're gonna need this crowbar. Come with me. And then, like, when the brook, we'd start in the morning and, you know, move this rock from here, move this rock over to there. Okay, now it is another rock. All right, we're almost done. That was one of his mental tricks, was, you're Almost done at 10:00am when you know you have the entire day to go. But that was a huge difference from my grandmother, who never let a family gathering go by without saying, I just want you all to know how much I love my grandchildren. You are such a source of joy for us. Grant worked us like a dog, but that was kind of his way. And my dad was very similar. My dad never. I don't recall him ever saying, I love you when I was a kid. He actually, I saw once, he was just a really busy executive and an engineer, kind of almost intellectual, little point of disability. But he once wrote himself a note, which I found. It was like, next to these notes of, like, pick Up a dry cleaning. And the note said, love, Ted. He had to write himself a note to remind himself not to tell me he loved me, but just to love me. And it wasn't until later in life and I think maybe him becoming a grandfather to my kids and my brother's kids, that he just opened up, you know, and. And that was this huge change from him. And then he started saying, hey, I love you. I like you. I think this is a generational shift. Like, if you were a dad who was really involved and you were there for your kids a lot, and all of a sudden, you know, 20 years goes by and now you have grandkids, I think you're more likely to be that involved grandfather and not be separated. I think it depends on what your. What your dad's style was. And it helps. Helps you find your. Your inner, inner grandpa, you know, if you're fortunate enough for that to happen.
- [28:00]
A
So you say that you learn from your gramp. There is no substitute for hard work. And these are the things that get passed down. You talked about following your bliss, you know, whether that's like being curious about what's on the nature walk, you know, to engineering or building or whatever it is. Like, my grandpa on my dad's side, he was an incredible. I don't even know what, like, everybody would bring him his. Their, like, televisions and radios, like back in, like the 80s. And you know, when. And like, you know, they were all huge, like these big TVs. And he could fix anything. He could fix your toaster. And he had this whole room in the back of the house that was like, filled with gadgets. And we didn't really do that with him. Like, I have a memory of the room. I probably, if I smelled something, like, it would be able to, like, bring back memories. But we never tinkered with him. So an interesting thing that, you know, I love this advice of really embracing, you know, here that you've got this summer rental cottage business, you've got this lake, there's fishing. Like, do all of that stuff together and don't think that the kids aren't going to want to do it. They're even going to be fine to build a retaining wall with you and dig pits and, you know, whatever. You pass those things along. So there's really good ideas just through the stories that you tell. You have these good ideas about the forever letter. Writing letters to your kids, writing letters to your grandkids, making up stories and making sure that you write them down. But I wanted to talk about the. I thought this was really deep. This is why sometimes I'm like, I don't totally get it, but maybe this is the point. It feels like with a grandparenting, like, does it concern you that you might not see the end of the story? Like, is that really hard?
- [29:44]
B
Yeah, you know, it doesn't, doesn't preoccupy me. But in a way it's no different than having a concern you won't see at the end of the story when you're a parent. You know what I mean? Like, it's the same thing, you know, not to be fatalistic, but if, you know, if someone dies at 50, it turns out they were middle aged at 25 and like, you never know. And so how do you live today and how do you live in a way that, you know, you can look back however far in the future you are and you're going to say, you know what? I did the right thing that day. You know, I did the right thing for other people. And it's only through just the passage of time that I've come to see, you know, speaking of getting deep, that there is a life after this one, if only in the memories that we instill. Those memories are, you know, for me just in the process of writing the book. You know, my grandpa, my parents, my great grandfather. I'm at the desk of my, you know, I wrote the book on the desk, which I'm here right now, of my great, great grandfather who was a doctor in Boston. It's like these characters are very vivid in my mind. You know, they're with me all the time. So I think it's good to kind of reframe, you know, I know there is an afterlife through the memories that we share and the values that we can instill that I see in my grandkids and I've seen it. And I'll just give you one example. And this is touches into technology to some extent, but a grandpa named Bob Halperin had reached out to me and he's writing what they call forever letters to his grandchildren. Now, it happens to be an ancient, it was an ancient Jewish tradition going back to biblical times to write a letter to future generations, you know, share your values. And you won't be there in 40 years, but your great grandkids, your grandkids will, so you can share your values. And they'll open the letter then. He has updated this to email, which I thought was the coolest thing. He has a special Gmail account, his daughter has the passcodes and all this stuff. And he's writing emails to his grandchildren meant to be open in the future. So there's a little bit of him in each of those emails, and they are. They will transcend his life. And that's okay. You know, we. We've only got certain amount of sand in our hourglass, and I think the more we recognize how precious every day is, I think the more it drives us to think, how can I instill the things that matter in these kids?
- [32:37]
A
Yeah. I mean, you write so beautifully about this. You say, as a grandpa, I'm experiencing time with a sense of increasing acceleration. As a grandpa, the emotions are all the more poignant because I know this is my last rodeo. Each step I see them take into adulthood has an air of personal finality for me, because I know I will only see this once and may not live long enough to see them have children of their own. This is it. I mean, we really should all be living that way all the time.
- [33:05]
B
Yeah, absolutely. You know, I. And it. It relates to, you know, the larger picture of, you know, the reality that there is sickness in the world, there is disease in the world. And I interviewed grandfathers who were dealing with their own disability and how they get through it. But I also talked with a grandfather whose story just knocked me over. And, you know, yes, I think five grandkids, but the youngest developed a. A brain tumor, an incurable brain tumor. And the doctors did the surgery, and they got most of it out, but part of it was wrapped around the brain stem. So the doctor said, well, the best we could do is try to keep her alive as long as possible until there's a cure. But he and his wife started a prayer group. His wife's Episcopalian minister. They got thousands of people praying for this little girl. And the girl went in for her checkup with the surgeon, and the surgeon came back and said, we don't know how this happened, but she's okay.
- [34:11]
A
Wow.
- [34:11]
B
Well, you know, the doctor didn't know how it happened, but this grandfather did.
- [34:15]
A
Yeah.
- [34:16]
B
So I think we have to recognize just how precious life is at whatever age.
- [34:22]
A
Right.
- [34:23]
B
And being a grandfather or grandmother or a parent, you know, you've got. You have what? How many kids? Three kids.
- [34:30]
A
We've got five.
- [34:32]
B
Five kids. I relate. I had four brothers.
- [34:35]
A
Yep.
- [34:36]
B
Like, you never know day to day. You know, I remember when my son. My son, we didn't know at the time, but he had meningitis. So he was, I don't know, 11. Bring him into the hospital in Boston before. I know it you know, he's, you know, getting a spinal tap with like multiple doctors and nurses holding him down with me as he is screaming. We didn't know if he had bacterial or viral, if it was going to be bacterial. It was life threatening. So they finished the spinal tap and then they give him a shot. He calms down. They say, well, we've given your son a shot, so he won't remember this. And I remember thinking, can I have one of those? You know what I mean? Like, it's, it's so intense. But this is like, this is parenthood, right? This is parenthood and this is also grandparenthood. So on. The circle of those that we love so deeply is simply expanded. And you never stop being, you know, you never stop being a mom or a dad. When you've, the next generation comes, you're always going to be that mom, right? I'll always be a dad.
- [35:49]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Yes. There's like, certain things you just wish you could forget because they're so traumatizing. That's so relatable. But one of the things that you talk about. Okay, I just, I really want to know about this because our oldest is about to graduate and I am feeling like you as much as I'm like, so, like, like, let them go. Like, let them go live their life. You're kind of like, can you just stay here? So anyway, one of the things that you say in the book is, this may shock you, but it actually won't be very long before your kids have kids. Honestly, it will feel like you blinked and suddenly there will be a bunch of grandchildren to hug and read to and make cookies with. The empty nest will be full again before you know it. You have a wonderfully rich and busy life with grandchildren before. You don't have to rush ahead. You know, it's going to, it's going to come. So tell me, reassure me that this is going to happen quick.
- [36:48]
B
Yeah, that's, that's in a chapter where I wrote a letter to the 26 year old us. Dear 26 year old us. And trying to have, you know, that, that perspective and, and look back and give yourself advice, you know, because a forever letter isn't just for, you know, grandkids and great grandkids, you know, it can be for ourselves and think about, you know, how quickly things change, you know, in terms of, like, when they leave the nest, you know? You know, you know, you've done a lot of things right. Right. Like you can feel good as a mom or dad. I, my kids will Tell you that I'm a very emotional person. We dropped our daughter off at George Washington University, you know, with the van, and I was doing great. I was doing. I kept my stuff together. I was emotionally cool. We unpacked everything. We get in the car and my wife Nancy puts in the CD of my daughter's high school acapella group. And it's like I totally lost it, bawling my eyes out, you know. But in terms of, like, when, you know, things happen, right? So the gifts happen. And having a grandchild, you know, if that happens, it is an extraordinary gift and you never know when it's going to happen. But I know from all the conversations I had, you know, including with, you know, Tom Brokaw and John Cleese, religious leaders and so forth, that there's a reason why gifts happen.
- [38:19]
A
And if it feels like it comes.
- [38:20]
B
Kind of quick, it seems kind of quick in hindsight, but there was that. There was a good 15 year period where it was the empty nest. You know what I mean?
- [38:30]
A
Yeah.
- [38:30]
B
In hindsight, with time accelerating, it seems like that. Just like nothing.
- [38:36]
A
I think these are really good conversations to have because you don't really know. You don't know what you don't know. And in this letter, dear 26 year old us, you talk about how when they leave for college and you're alone, it's okay to feel sad and ball your eyes out, you know, off they go. You did. You did a good job. You did what you were supposed to do. The other day, my lamp broke. It's my bedside lamp and I use it to read late into the night because I'm always preparing for this podcast. It broke. It actually won't turn off unless I unplug it. And so I needed to find a new lamp for my bedside and my finger. Favorite place to go of all places to go is Wayfair. Wayfair is the perfect place to go if your tableside lamp breaks. But it's also the perfect place to kick off your back to school and fall season prep. Everything comes so fast. And they have an amazing selection of things from cozy bedding and linens to storage solutions. For every room, they always have you covered. Plus, their huge selection of outdoor items makes it easy to find just what we need to transition smoothly into the fall. Besides lamps and linens, they even have playsets. We have the most incredible playset in our backyard that we got from Wayfair about six years ago, and the kids still use it constantly. Whether you're refreshing your workspace with a new desk or making weeknight dinners a breeze. With quality cookware, Wayfair literally has it all. And with free fast and hassle free delivery, even on big stuff like sofas and dining tables, there is no better time to shop, get organized, refreshed and back into routine. For way less than head over to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's Wayfair. W A Y F A I R.com Wayfair Every style, every home.
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When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to set the settle dinner plans. Send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom's 60th and never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone. Learn more@WhatsApp.com so it's just a lot of wisdom passed down here and a lot of things to think about. And you are filling a void because you say the wisdom of grandpas, along with the myriad of ways grandpas have found to live their lives to the fullest, has been largely absent from pulp from popular culture. Why do you think that is?
- [41:31]
B
I think partly it's because grandmothers are so fabulous that they've been much more present in our culture. Grandmothers have been the ones most ready to embrace grandparenthood. Grandfathers traditionally have, you know, stepped back a little bit. So it's not like grandfathers are being stigmatized necessarily. It's just more that it isn't something that grandfathers have stood on the mountaintop and talked about. I mean, I started my blog good grandpa in 2014. That's when I found out I was going to be a grandfather. The only thing I could find in the web was the movie Bad Grandpa. That was it. No blogs. It was just this strange, senile, you know, alcoholic. And I kept waiting, like every year after year, you know, I was just living my life, just, you know, writing for the blog, sharing stories. And I could See, books like Leslie Stahl had written Becoming Grandma. I think, you know, she's 60 Minutes correspondent. There have been other women out there to their credit, you know, blogging and so forth. Ten years in, no celebrity grandfather had written a book.
- [42:45]
A
Wow.
- [42:45]
B
It still wasn't happening. And I thought, why? Like, what, what is going on here? And it was right around that time that the New York Times wrote a story called like, how to be a Better Grandpa or something. And they, they interviewed me. And then I just had this. I saw just an outpouring of people who were talking about their grandfathers and the love that they experienced. And a literary agent reached out to me and said, hey, would you like to write a book? And I thought, well, and, and I won't say who the celebrity was, but it was between me and a celebrity grandfather, and the other guy decided not to do it. So I wrote the book, you know, so I'm kind of like coming out of left field. I'm nobody famous. I'm just a grandfather. And I'm trying to tell stories and tell the stories of other grandfathers so that the celebrity is grandfatherhood, you know, does that make sense?
- [43:45]
A
Yeah, yeah, because no one's talking about it. I mean, it is really true. I likely had never thought about it, Ted, but then I read it in your book. You say it, it's absent from popular culture.
- [43:56]
B
And I'll, I'll tell you one quick anecdote I think explains a little bit why men have not talked about it as much. You know, I've, I've owned a marketing firm for, you know, 25, 30 years now. And right around the time I was in a process of becoming a grandfather, you know, I would meditate every day, right? 20 minutes, close the door in my office in Boston, meditate. And then I'd come back and I'd feel refreshed and so forth. So my first grandson is born. I start sharing photographs with all my 30 year old employees. Like, isn't this amazing? And then like a week later, I'm behind the door, my door, I'm meditating, and I hear someone hear a 30 something outside the office door say, where's Ted? And then someone said, grandpa's having a nap. And I thought, oh, that's how this works. It's like I'd become the old guy who had to have a nap. It's like, that's gotta be one reason why men are not, you know, effusively telling everyone that they're grandfathers. You know, they don't want someone to just say, well, they're ready for the pasture now. They're having a nap. So I just. The other way. I said, hey, here I am. Here are my other photos. Did I show you the other photos of my other grandkids? Someone wants to say I'm old or I'm ready for, you know, like, whatever. Like, this is it. Huh.
- [45:23]
A
Wow, that's really perceptive. Well, and what's interesting too, is because you talk about in the book, you're like, people, grandparents in their 30s. There's people that are in their 30s that are grandparents and they're in their 90s and their grandparents, which. That's an interesting thing about life. Like, we talk often about how you have this pretty static life from kindergarten to 12th grade, and then there's like this pretty wide ranging set of paths that you can take once you graduate from high school. But even more so than with a grandparent life, it's like, well, you could be 38 and be a grandpa, or you could be 76 and be a grandpa for the first time. And so does that what you talk about, the grandpa club, you say, I'm part of the best club in the world. It's so exclusive that no amount of money can buy you in. A lot of people have the same haircut as you, which is bald. It's great. It's like, it's humorous. But is that an odd thing? Is it odd to be like, yeah, I'm a grandpa and you're a grandpa and we're two decades apart or something like that?
- [46:24]
B
I think there's some again and again, I found commonality with different grandfathers, regardless of age and regardless of culture. And it is kind of an informal club and. And you have no control over it. You know, like, when you're a parent, you can say, hey, let's have kids, new grandparents. You can't go to your daughter and say, all right, it's time. But Bob and I, you know, we're still traveling. It's no, no, no gonna make me grandkids. It doesn't work that way. So it's kind of like in the movie Jurassic park when, you know, the baby dinosaurs escape from the enclosure. Like, you don't have control over this. They're. They're those. They're going to appear when they're going to appear. But, you know, like, just in the middle of August, I was really lucky to be interviewed by Al Roker for the Today show, which is, I think it's airing, it's in, like, this week. But you Know, he's a massive celebrity. He's a little bit older than me. He has one grandchild now. And we had the most wonderful conversation. And we were comparing notes, like I was asking him questions, you know, part of that. He's just such a nice guy. Like, you see him on tv, he's just so personable and friendly. But also we have so much in common, you know, and I, I talked with, you know, religious leaders. I mentioned that I talked to a orthodox rabbi. You know, like, what I don't know about religion can fill a book, but this guy, this is just this mind blowing conversation with someone that I wouldn't have thought I had so much in common with. And it turns out he met his future wife in the same neighborhood I did in Crown Heights, Brooklyn.
- [48:06]
A
Wow.
- [48:07]
B
I was, you know, right after college, went to New York. That's where I could afford to live. So that was a big lesson for me, you know, and the need to have conversations with people to find that commonality. And it became a thread of like, how do we overcome our national division as well? You know, how do we have those conversations? Honest, candid, respectful. So it's. We're not just living in our own little world.
- [48:35]
A
Yeah. Wow. It binds you together no matter what age you become a grandpa at and no matter where you are. I know you've talked to people all over the world. What a thing. So you said that this New York Times article that featured your blog and it was called how to Become a Better Grandpa was just filled, flooded with comments about people who wrote with great emotion about the cherished experiences they have with their grandpas. The word they used most often was love. What's the best way to share the news? If you have a. If your parent is about to become a grandpa, if your dad is about to become a grandpa, what are, what are some cool ideas that you've heard of that, that people share the news?
- [49:15]
B
I think from my own experience, daughters are masters of this. My daughter, she invited us over along with the in laws, her, her husband's parents, and she handed us all Valentine's on Valentine's Day. And inside was the sonogram. So somewhere, you know, we, we've kept it, but that was this amazing reveal, right? I talked to one grandfather, happened to be a Reform rabbi, but he was at a Chinese restaurant and it was Chinese New Year's, and his daughter handed him a box. And inside the box was just a pacifier and the due date. So there's just lots of ways to break the news. But you Never forget it. You know, it's like it's one of those things, like, because that's like, you know, that's that. That's that moment you've entered that club. That, that's. That's that moment you know your life is going to change and you. You can't even begin to anticipate the level of emotion.
- [50:22]
A
Yeah. You say I am the grandfather of a heartbeat. You actually had this beautiful. It was almost like a poem. I wanted to read it in here about what you had said. Oh, yeah, I found it. It's a. Well, it's a little journal entry. Today, my daughter Abigail shared the news that I am the grandfather of a heartbeat. The ultrasound image was pasted into a Valentine's card. A black and white. I can never say it. Rorschach. Is that how people say it? A black and white Rorschach was one tiny heat with one tiny hand reaching up as if to say hello. The boulder of energy that struck my chest was both kind and playful. It whispered, a future walks in a Vermont meadow. Me holding my grandchild's hand up as she takes toddling steps through the tall grass. His gleeful laughter at how new and thrilling it is to be alive. Smeared peas and Cheerios, soggy with milk on a high chair tray and sitting together by the brook, staring in wonder in silence at water spiders darting here and there. It's like it just opened up this whole box of dreams. It's. It's really powerful. Really, really powerful. Okay, so you never forget it. The reveal. You never forget what are. And this is going to come out right. The book has come out right around Grandparents Day, and this podcast will come out not long after. What are some of the best ways to let a grandparent know that they're loved?
- [51:41]
B
One thing I would, you know, encourage is to listen to my, my, my Aunt Lois and goes to show how extraordinary grandmothers are that. My Aunt Lois kind of steals the show in the book because first person that I spoke with was her. She was the last one standing among my parents generation. She was like 95 at the time. I said, well, Lois, how do I. How do I do this? I'm going to be a grandfather. And she said, be there for them. That was it. Be there for them. And you think about that. Be there for them. Four words. Like the biggest ideas you can usually express with the fewest words. And that idea of being there for someone, it applies for being there for grandkids, but it also means being there for each other.
- [52:31]
A
Right?
- [52:32]
B
And I Think just have the grandparents visit more, bring them over. So many grandfathers I talked to, you know, and this was whether they were Chinese or Indian or One guy grew up in an Italian family in Bensonhurst, Brooklyn. The grandparents lived next door. That was such a special part of their childhood is being able to run next door and talk to grandparents. Bring the grandparents into the family. They will love it. I can't speak for everyone, but most of it go, please, let's spend time together, be there for each other. And I think also have conversations with folks, ask what they did in their life that they thought they did right, but find out what they regretted, you know what I mean? And it goes both ways. And I think it's the same with parents. You know, my, I have three granddaughters now, which is amazing, and two grandsons. And I asked all the grandfathers that I interviewed, what's the number one most important thing out of everything you've learned in life, the thing that you want your grandkids to know that's going to help them hopefully become the greatest generation of all time? More than us, better than my, quote unquote, greatest generation, World War II era parents. So I, and I occurred to me and I already passed in the manuscript, but I'm out to have breakfast with the girls and I'm looking at the five year old and the three year old and I say, you know, you have a new sister coming. What's the number one thing? You've been around a long time now it's five years. That's a lot. It's a lot of living there. What do you want that girl, A girl to know? And she did. The five year old didn't skip a beat. She said, no matter what you do in life, be your best. Where did she learn this? This is like, was it just in the air, you know, her other grandparents, they didn't tell her, they told us. But there's things you learn just from being there and asking these questions and that's what makes it special. And I think the more families can be really close. If you can't be physically close, pick up the phone, do FaceTime, ask questions, dig deeper and you're going to find gold there. There's family stories and histories. I was constantly blown away by the stories that I heard. It's like wandering through the best antique store in the world, you know, and just finding these treasures, you know, And I, I kept asking grandpa, you know, can you go back? You know, because one guy said he had a great uncle who survived the Titanic. So can we talk about that? But a lot of this, this treasure chest is locked away in people's minds. No one has asked them these questions.
- [55:13]
A
Right, right.
- [55:14]
B
That's why the bad grandpa. It's one of the reasons why the bad grandpa, you know, mythology still exists. It's like, who talked with them? Nobody talked with them. I'm. I'm trying to kick the door open and have that conversation. It's like, let's listen to hear each other's stories and how we can learn from each other.
- [55:33]
A
I loved how you said in the book, I wear big ears. I thought that was such a great phrase. I wear big ears, asking lots of questions, trying to stay open to where the story leads me. Try to be a good listener. If you can be a good listener, everything else is possible. We're wrapping up. What's a cool grandpa name or two besides Boppy?
- [55:50]
B
Let's see. A cool grandpa name besides Boppy. God, I've heard lots of different ones. You know, I became Grandpa Ted in time just so they could differentiate me from the other ones. But it. A lot of it just sounds like bizarre baby sounds that absolutely no sense to us whatsoever but become instantly endearing when they. When they start saying, you know, because they can't pronounce things very well when they're one or six months. But I think sometimes it's the most unpronounceable baby sounds that have the most love packed into them. And it reminds me a little bit of, you know, in Native American cultures where they would. After the birth, they would go out in TP and the first thing they would see is what they would name child. You know, the running deer or whatever. And I think it's kind of. We have our own rituals around naming where we are not in charge and we just have to have those big ears. And if they call you Boopy, you know, Al Roker is Pop Pop to fit them really well. You know, what Tom Broker was. Was Tom Brokaw was called. But we all, you know, have our own experiences. And, you know, I think we carry that name for the rest of our lives. It's become part of who. Who we've become is that name.
- [57:13]
A
I love it. So you're named after the boppy pillow. There's a thing. There's like, this seat, and they tell you you're not supposed to put your kid in it because it's maybe not good for their, I don't know, development. But it's called Bumbo. So I like Boppy better than Bumbo. I Think that worked out well for you?
- [57:28]
B
I want to be Grandpa Bumbo.
- [57:30]
A
Oh, no. Like, it's like the first thing you see, this bumbo chair. So the boppy worked out well.
- [57:35]
B
It's probably better than just being called car seat.
- [57:39]
A
Right, Right. What are some of the other options? So the book is called Good Grandpa Stories from the Heart of Grandfatherhood. You also have the blog good grandpa.com, a place where you are sharing about the special club of being a grandpa and making sure that this wisdom from grandpas is a part of popular culture. It sure needs to be. We always end our show with the same question. What's a favorite memory from your childhood that was outside?
- [58:04]
B
Favorite memory from my childhood that was outside was I was with my dad in, I believe it was New Mexico, and we had climbed a mountain. I was maybe 7 years old. And a lightning storm came up, massive, massive storm. And we were like, way up on the mountain, just super rocky. So dad gets me on his back. And we ran down the mountain during the lightning storm. And to me, that's like a metaphor for life, you know, your whole life. It's like. And he just kept going, just leaping from rock to rock while lightning struck all around us.
- [58:44]
A
Wow. Wow, what an experience. Yeah, that's the one you wouldn't forget. That's incredible. Well, Ted, what an honor. And thanks for all that you're doing. It's important. It's a good reminder, you know, like, parents need to hear that the grandparent relationship is really important. It's such a busy time in the world. It's like people are trying to get their kid and this, that and the other thing, and there's so much homework and all that kind of stuff. So it's really important to have these conversations to really think about how you're going to use your time and how you're going to make sure that you have those strong family relationships. So thank you for being here.
- [59:20]
B
Thank you. And my one wish from all this, and I just mentioned this real quick. I know that I heard this, like, there's people who are parents getting this for their grandfather in their life, you know, the grandfather of their kids, which is great. I just hope they read it first before they give it away, because so many grandfathers told me. So I'm going to tell you something that I wish I knew 40 years ago. So that's my one. If I could one idea in people's minds. Like, if you're 30, if you're young, parents, like, do not wait until you were 66 to learn those things that these grandfathers wish they knew when you were your age.
- [59:56]
A
Yes, such a good point. Like the book has the wisdom of the grandfathers in it, and so you're going to get the wisdom of a collective group of grandfathers if you read it. I loved it. I was very entertained. The best story, and I'm not giving it away because it's so good, but the best story is about your mom and your dad and when the, the boat motor goes down to the deepest part of the lake. That is a phenomenal story. And I just thought no one has stories like that anymore. So it's a. It's filled with fantastic stories. And I agree with you. It's not just for grandpa's to read, it's really for everyone to read. So I really appreciate it and such an honor to meet you.
- [60:34]
B
Thanks, Jenny. It was really fun to talk with you and Doug.
- [60:43]
A
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