The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast

Episode: 1KHO 619: Ungoverned by Four Walls
Guests: Jess Warner & Adele Hopper, TimberNook Australia
Host: Jenny Merritt
Released: November 13, 2025

Overview

This episode dives into the transformative power of extended, child-led outdoor play, centering on the TimberNook Australia program, co-founded by Jess Warner and Adele Hopper. Both women share their personal journeys from conventional health and education settings into facilitating nature-based, play-driven learning environments for children—and by extension, families. The episode explores the challenges, philosophies, and profound outcomes of letting kids “be ungoverned by four walls,” both literally and figuratively.

Guest Backgrounds and Timbernook Origins

[02:00] - [09:06]

• Adele Hopper shares her background as a pediatric occupational therapist, mother of three (with a fourth on the way), and the shift from the clinical setting to nature-based work—especially after the loss of her hospital job due to COVID vaccination mandates. She describes her attraction to outdoor play, initially organizing backyard playgroups and ultimately embracing TimberNook thanks to Jess’s encouragement.
  • “It was groundbreaking stuff... for children to have that opportunity where, you know, space is actually held for them to have that sense of freedom...” – Adele [03:43]
• Jess Warner is an early childhood educator who left the traditional sector after becoming a mother and turned to the wellness space and intergenerational playgroups. The limitations imposed by COVID, specifically losing access to aged-care settings, inspired her desire to work “ungoverned by four walls.” A friend's suggestion led her to TimberNook, where she found resonant values and a practical blueprint for impact.
  • “I don’t want to be governed by four walls with my work... I was just so happened to be talking to a very good friend of mine... ‘You should look at TimberNook.’ ... and then, yeah, as Adele said, she was running her playgroups and I was watching her do that and I knew that this wasn’t a journey that I wanted to do by myself...” – Jess [06:46]

From Clinical to Nature-based: The Profound Shift

[10:14] - [13:33]

• Adele describes the personal and professional transformation in moving therapy outside, feeling greater regulation and the ability to co-regulate children in her care. She questions previous norms—“Why am I hanging this swing up inside?... when I can easily access all of this outside within nature?” [11:52]
• She highlights that Australia’s culture is highly outcome-driven and prescriptive for children, noting a surge in referrals for emotional regulation and advocating for a return to play as the foundation for well-being.
  • “We live in such a culture here in Australia... there's a real need to rebalance and rebuild nervous system resilience.” – Adele [12:54]

The Value and Nature of Real Play

[13:33] - [19:37]

• Jenny and Jess discuss the meaning of “real play,” emphasizing TimberNook’s model of child-led, unstructured activity rather than product-oriented or adult-directed play. Parental anxieties about what children “should” be learning are compassionately addressed.
  • “Once the children are in the space, they rule the roost in a safe way... A lot of people think, ‘Don’t just run, run them amok around the bush...’ But… we've never had any problem... They want to stay with their friends, they want to do the things that the other children are doing.” – Jess [17:44]
• Jess points out the need for parent education—helping families understand that science, math, and social skills are naturally woven into authentic playful experiences, even something as simple as kids putting water and a pumpkin down a decommissioned slide.
  • “They're just thinking, you're just putting water on a slide. But they're not thinking about, that's science. They're looking at the way the water's flowing, all of this thing, trial, trial and error…” – Jess [16:29]

Building Executive Function and Autonomy

[23:33] - [26:00]

• Children develop self-regulation, autonomy, and executive function through both play and managing practical needs (e.g., eating when hungry, managing their own belongings).
  • “We give them the freedom to say, oh, your body feels hungry? Okay, go and feed it... They're able to actually develop those executive functions...” – Jess [23:46]
  • “When they stay... the guide for their own play, they stop and they...” – Adele [25:15]
• Parenting in this context means resisting the urge to intervene; kids figure out both play and personal needs independently, boosting intrinsic motivation and confidence.

The Power of Letting Kids Take the Lead

[29:00] - [33:48]

• The hosts describe scenarios of initially reserved children blossoming into confident participants when allowed to observe—and join at their own pace—without coercion.
  • “It’s really important to just really let them lead and just remember and have trust in that whole process... when she gets there in her own time, you can just see how much joy but also how much she feels safe...” – Adele [29:39]
• Kids often come with an expectation of adult guidance from more structured environments and need time to adjust to new-found freedom.
  • “A lot of, you know, childcare centers around us... remove all of the trees. The kids don’t have any opportunity… to climb trees at all. So, yeah. They're seeking that permission from us...” – Adele [32:28]

Restoring Lost Neighborhood Play & Community

[33:48] - [38:32]

• TimberNook serves as a stand-in for the almost extinct neighborhood play of previous generations—providing continuity, mixed-age grouping, and community.
• The ripple-effect of community extends to the whole family, especially homeschoolers and young parents seeking connection.
  • “We have families that come to our tiny one sessions... they all continue playing out there together... We’ve seen them extend these relationships and friendships beyond TimberNook...” – Jess [36:02]
  • “It’s what a lot of us are lacking. And it’s what a lot of us are looking for as well.” – Jess [37:31]
• The power of continuity and multi-year peer groups is highlighted as rare and valuable.

Overcoming Barriers to Getting Started

[38:32] - [47:56]

• Jenny references the “doorstep mile”—the hardest step in starting a community play initiative.
• Jess and Adele emphasize shared values, mutual support (“work wifeys”), starting small, and leveraging TimberNook’s supportive blueprint and professional development.
  • “Even if no one else comes, what do we want our kids to have?... The reason we decided to go down the TimberNook path... was knowing that there was a blueprint there that Angela was setting up things that would help us navigate the business…” – Jess [41:30]
• Practical tips: start with what you have, schedule to fit your life, and invite grandparents for intergenerational magic.

On Location, Wildlife & Risk

[48:10] - [51:40]

• TimberNook Appen (between Sydney and Wollongong) is based on land belonging to Scouts Australia; most activities are held outdoors, using nature’s resources.
  • “We could literally just put out a couple of things and Mother Nature would provide the rest... So it’s not a huge investment to set it up really, because a lot of the time you’re letting Mother Nature do its thing.” – Jess [46:38]
• Kids are exposed (safely) to wildlife and learn to handle risk—fundamental for developing judgment and resilience.
  • “Children get this exposure to… inherent risks that are, you know, we have outside in nature but where we're not sort of excluding that or blocking that experience for them to learn about these things from an early age.” – Adele [51:02]

Nature-Based Occupational Therapy

[52:41] - [56:30]

• Adele also operates an outdoor therapy practice, Mother Natured, using the same nature-based, play-focused framework for children of various abilities.
• Outdoor sessions offer myriad benefits: sensory regulation, emotional resilience, social skills, better sleep and behavior, and even stronger sibling relationships.
  • “At the end it was the parents who are actually saying, you know, they had such a blast but they weren't sure if it was them who actually needed it more than the children themselves.” – Adele [54:12]

Key Quotes & Timestamps

• “I don’t want to be governed by four walls with my work.” – Jess [07:51]
• “It was groundbreaking stuff... Space is actually held for them to have that sense of freedom.” – Adele [03:43]
• “They rule the roost in a safe way... once the children are in the space.” – Jess [17:44]
• “Your body feels hungry? Okay, go and feed it.” – Jess [23:46]
• “If you’re listening... please just shoot us a DM... we’re so happy to help get you started.” – Jess [45:03]
• “Less is more... Maybe extending that one hour play date... making it longer.” – Adele [46:13]

Closing Reflections: Favorite Outdoor Memories

[58:24] - [61:44]

• Jess recalls growing up on a farm, learning autonomy and creativity “driving” with her sister and making their own pretend town. Adele reminisces about catching crayfish with her nan and great aunt, showing that magic comes from simple, extended outdoor experiences.

Takeaways

• Child-led, unstructured outdoor play is foundational to emotional, sensory, and social development.
• Communities and families benefit: children thrive and parents find much-needed connection.
• Starting doesn't have to be daunting: begin small, with fellow believers, and trust in the process and community support.
• TimberNook provides a practical, adaptable blueprint for anyone inspired to bring nature play to their community.

Resources & Contacts

• TimberNook Appen: Between Sydney and Wollongong, NSW – reach out via Instagram
• Mother Natured (Adele’s therapy practice): mothernatured.com
• Learn more about TimberNook & starting your own program: timbernook.com

Episode Inspiration

“Please, if you're listening and you feel like you want to join in, join in... All the women I've talked to have been thrilled with their experience, thrilled it has gone beyond what they could have imagined it would have gone. And I think you, you know, you have to take that step to find out.” – Jenny [56:54]

For anyone passionate about childhood, community, or education, this episode illustrates the life-changing magic that can happen when adults step back, trust the process, and let children be ungoverned by four walls.