1KHO 626: Our Children Are Being Medicated for Being Tired | Kalli Halle, Toothpillow

Summary

Podcast Summary: The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast

Episode: 1KHO 626 – “Our Children Are Being Medicated for Being Tired”

Guest: Dr. Kalli Hale, Founder of Airway Dentists & Toothpillow
Host: Jenny Urchin
Original Air Date: November 20, 2025

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Episode Overview

This pivotal episode explores the vital—yet often overlooked—connection between children’s airway health, jaw development, sleep quality, and the cascade of symptoms often misdiagnosed as behavioral or psychological problems (like ADHD and ODD). Dr. Kalli Hale, a leader in airway-centric dentistry, joins Jenny Urchin to discuss why children are increasingly fatigued, how sleep-disordered breathing manifests, and how early, functional interventions can alter the course of both childhood and adult health. The conversation also introduces the Toothpillow appliance as a revolutionary, accessible tool for improving jaw development and airway health from childhood through adulthood.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Breadth and Urgency of the Issue

• Childhood is a fleeting period—about 9.5 million minutes—and how we nurture those years shapes lifelong health.
• Quote: “Our children are being medicated for being tired. They're being medicated for things that are related to obstructive sleep apnea. And the parents are never being told, 'Hey, how does your child sleep at night?'”
  — Dr. Kalli Hale [05:01]
• Until recently, neither mainstream dentistry nor parents recognized that sleep, breathing, jaw structure, and oral habits are deeply intertwined.

2. Connecting the Dots: Sleep Disordered Breathing & Childhood Symptoms

• Sleep Disordered Breathing Spectrum: Begins with mouth breathing, progresses to snoring, tooth grinding, gasping, and can lead to full-blown obstructive sleep apnea.
  — Dr. Hale [08:03]
• Symptoms include: bedwetting, bags under eyes, hyperactivity, anxiety, headaches, snoring, night terrors, and more.
• Many children receive behavioral diagnoses (ADHD, ODD) and medication without ruling out sleep/breathing issues via sleep studies.
• Quote: “Any sort of snoring is not good. It's impaired air. If they are snoring at all, they need to be seen by a dentist.”
  — Jenny Urchin [12:23]

3. The Anatomy Behind Sleep and Jaw Development

• The structure of the nasal-maxillary complex determines nasal breathing ability.
  — Dr. Hale [16:00–17:35]
• A narrow palate pushes into the nasal airway, sometimes even causing deviated septum (often considered genetic, but frequently developmental).
• Early jaw interventions—ideally before age 12—can profoundly impact a child’s present comfort and future health.

4. Why the Shift? How Orthodontics and Dentistry Fell Behind

• Myofunctional therapy and functional appliances date back 50–75 years but were removed from dental curricula for decades due to politics and lack of awareness.
• The American Dental Association only began recommending sleep disorder screening for children in 2017.
• Quote: “There's zero evidence that kids grow out of tooth grinding or snoring. If your child does it, so will the adult.”
  — Dr. Hale [25:10]

5. Long-term Ramifications: Adult Health Starts in Childhood

• Children with untreated sleep-disordered breathing often become adults with tooth grinding, sleep apnea, and related health issues (heart disease, early strokes, cognitive issues).
• Notable Statistic: Severe sleep apnea increases risk of heart attack by 30% over 10 years. [28:21]
• “Your mouth breathing is probably going to be what kills you.”
  — Dr. Hale [27:10]

6. The Cost of Early vs. Delayed Intervention

• Traditional braces typically address only the cosmetic aspects and often involve tooth extractions—which may worsen long-term stability and health.
• Expanding jaws (not extracting teeth) addresses both function and appearance, with early interventions being less invasive, more cost-effective, and improving sleep/behavior/learning.
• Quote: “You either pay now, or you pay later. And if you pay later, you pay a lot more.”
  — Jenny Urchin [34:58]

7. The Role of Nutrition, Habits, and Early Screening

• Historic populations (see Dr. Weston A. Price’s work) had wide, healthy jaws—no crowding, no wisdom teeth extractions—due to tougher diets and natural chewing.
• Early breastfeeding, baby-led weaning, encouraging chewing, and monitoring for mouth breathing/lip/tongue ties all contribute to healthy jaw and airway development.
• Quote: “We have to make sure our children are nasal breathers—first and foremost.”
  — Dr. Hale [17:15]

8. Myofunctional Therapy: The Missing Piece

• Described simply as physical therapy for the tongue and mouth: “The myofunctional therapist is going to teach you how to use your tongue—which is a weird thing to think about.”
  — Dr. Hale [45:16]
• Essential for the success and stability of jaw treatments; it's not just about spacing but also muscular habits.
• Tongue thrust and improper swallow can cause or relapse orthodontic corrections if not addressed.

9. Access & Innovation: The Toothpillow Approach

• Toothpillow combines expert-directed screening, virtual care, and in some regions, in-person partnerships to deliver airway/alignment care to families everywhere.
• Target age: Starting at age 3, but adolescents and adults can benefit as well. [07:34, 50:00]
• Platform includes extensive education (see @toothpill_official on Instagram) to help parents spot symptoms and seek help.
• Quote: “We've tried to just bring it in a way that is as affordable as possible. ... The myofunctional therapy being part of our group is absolutely essential to success for these families.”
  — Dr. Hale [43:33]

10. Adult Interventions and an Expanding Model of Care

• 93% of Americans have some level of jaw malocclusion; adult care is more complex, costlier, and sometimes requires surgical or advanced dental intervention.
• Toothpillow is piloting partnerships and programs to make adult functional orthodontics more accessible, combining in-office diagnostics with remote monitoring to reduce travel and costs. [50:00–52:19]
• Message of Hope: Even adults who suffered for decades can achieve life-changing improvements in energy, concentration, and health.
• Quote: “You don’t even know, as an adult, that maybe you're dealing with [sleep-disordered breathing] because you’re used to your dysfunction.”
  — Dr. Hale [56:05]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Dental Curriculum & Medical Blindspots:
  “Airway was nowhere in our arena at all—even for my parents.”
  — Dr. Hale [03:43]

• On the Impact for Families:
  “You are going to get your baby back. ... All I did was make sure that they were breathing right when they’re sleeping.”
  — Dr. Hale [13:06]

• On Early, Proactive Screening:
  “I do want it to be the thing I’m remembered for: Start as early as possible.”
  — Dr. Hale [22:54]

• On the Emotional Weight:
  “It makes them cry because they want that so much.”
  — Dr. Hale, on parents finding hope after years of struggle [13:06]

• On Making This the New Normal:
  “Why aren't we screening for it?”
  — Dr. Hale [53:40]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [05:01] – The problem: children being medicated for symptoms that may be rooted in sleep-disordered breathing
• [08:03]–[11:05] – Explaining the sleep-disordered breathing spectrum, practical warning signs, and next steps
• [12:23]–[17:15] – Functional consequences: school performance, behavior, anxiety, and anatomical links
• [25:10]–[28:21] – How childhood jaw problems predict adult health outcomes (including heart attack risk)
• [34:58] – Financial and emotional costs: pay now or pay (more) later
• [45:16]–[49:03] – Myofunctional therapy explained and its practical application
• [50:00–52:19] – Adult sleep apnea, interventions, and the growing accessibility of new treatment models
• [56:05] – Adapting to dysfunction: why adults may not realize they can feel better

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Takeaways for Listeners

• For parents: Monitor your child’s breathing habits and sleep quality early. Mouth breathing, snoring, and even subtle jaw misalignments are far from “just cosmetic.”
• For adults: Lifelong patterns can be changed—don’t assume you’re “stuck” with fatigue, poor sleep, or jaw pain.
• For all: Early functional interventions (like Toothpillow), paired with myofunctional therapy, can prevent decades of health challenges and radically improve quality of life.
• Empowerment: Being informed means you can help your child (or yourself) avoid unnecessary medications, improve focus, sleep, and health, and reclaim a brighter, more energized future.

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To learn more or connect with Dr. Kalli Hale & Toothpillow:
Visit Toothpillow.com or check out @toothpill_official on Instagram.

Discounts mentioned in episode:
Listeners using code 1000hours get special offers—see episode notes or the Toothpillow site for details. [See 00:15, 59:25]

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This summary preserves the compassionate, hopeful, and practical tone of the conversation, distilling technical explanations without losing speaker intent or the episode’s warmth.

Transcript

[A]

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Welcome to one of our most important episodes because the implications are lifelong. I'm so honored to bring this information to you about helping our kids pull their jaws forward and how that impacts their current health and their lifelong health. If this ends up being of interest to you, this just in. Toothpillow is offering discounts to 1000 hours outside users and I'll put this information in the show notes and I'll throw it at the end as well. But if you're interested in this product that will help change the shape of your child's jaw, which will help them to sleep and breathe better, and all the health implications that go along with that. When you check out use code 1000hours, put it in the who referred you field and you'll get a free consultation which is worth $50 as well as $250 off your treatment. So that's from now until November 27th. That's one week after this podcast goes live. If you listen within the first week, head on over to toothpillow.com and put in code 1000 hours in the spot where there's a reference question and you'll get a free tooth Pillow consultation worth $50 and $250 off your treatment. If you're listening to this after November 27, you can still use the same code 1000hours and you'll get $25 off the consultation, which is 50% off, as well as $100 off your treatment. I hope you enjoy this episode. It is fascinating and much needed information for our children. It is definitely something to share with others, especially those who have kids ages 12 and under, but even adults who are struggling with sleep apnea symptoms. So save share, make sure you're subscribed. Without further ado, here is Dr. Kali Hale. Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Urchin. I am so excited to have one of our favorite guests. Our favorite guest that we've ever had, Kelly Hale, founder of Airway Dentists and just really changing lives for kids and adults. Welcome back.

[A]

Thank you so much Jenny. I have been looking forward to this all week. We have so much to say and I feel like we needed more time last time. So this is perfect.

[B]

It's so perfect. This is something I'm really passionate about because we've had experience in our own family of dealing with bedwetting and just kind of kids that are really tired and have bags under their eyes. We dealt with underbites. I guess when you become a parent, you don't realize, like, how much teeth are going to be a part.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. I know.

[B]

And so our, our particular family sit is that we sort of fell into this alternative route to orthodontics. And I don't know if that's how you would say it, an alternative route to braces, I guess. And because we had a child with an underbite and it wasn't anything that, you know, I'd be like, I know all about this. And it was like a happens, a happenstance thing, but then turned out to be an amazing situation because what we learned is that you can help the jaw grow the way it's supposed to. You can help make sure that there's more room for the teeth that are supposed to be there. And it's not just about looks, it's about functionality of the body. And then I came across tooth pillow and it's just such like an incredible tool and it's incredible opportunity, starting at really young ages to help children and then adults, because children become adults to have this proper spacing in their mouths and throats and all of that because it affects so much. So give us your background for those who didn't hear the first episode, your background. I mean, everyone thinks of a dentist and they think of one type of person, but you are focused on the airway. And you know, it's interesting, people think dentists, they think teeth. I don't think a lot of them think of airway.

[A]

I know they don't. And honestly, neither did I when I was getting out of school. Are you kidding me? I was the most traditional as you could imagine. Filling teeth, doing extracts and surgery, all sorts of beautiful things. I do come from a family of dentists, though, so I do like to share that because it really molded the way I talked to patients and my empathy in my chairside bedside manner. I learned so much from my parents in that regard. But airway was nowhere in our like, arena at all, even for my parents. I mean, sleep apnea, sleep disorder, breathing in the 80s, 70s, like that, that was not happening in dental schools. And unfortunately it still is not happening to the extent that it should. So I had to seek out extensive training after dental school to learn what I learned. But it was the best decision I ever made. Honestly. There was an article that I wrote for a very large dental sleep practice magazine, and it was titled the First Thing I Changed and the Best decision I Ever Made. It was absolutely iconic for to realize that all these things that I didn't know, that I didn't know, you know, like, there's so much. And then you learn it and you're like, this explains everything. Like, why is this adult dealing with gum recession and tooth grinding? I just posted on my social media a clip of somebody who recorded their tooth grinding. It would literally send chills down your spine if you heard this. And now we know why that's happening. Now we know there is a root cause for this.

[B]

So.

[A]

And there is so important to have collaborative care between ent, pulmonology, myofunctional therapy, all the dental professions. It's so important, but ultimately it's not known enough. And that is what spawned the idea of Tooth Pillow. Because I realized, along with my amazing founders, that we needed to bring this to the masses. And how can we possibly do that in my schedule at my office between 8 to 5? Like, we cannot help the masses. Like, we work just if they have to come in physically. So we're like, we need to figure out how to screen them. I need to find the best stinking airway dentists all over the United States in these states to help us do this so that the parents can be educated on what the heck Tooth Pillow even is, you know, and social media and platforms like yours have helped tremendously. So in my background, I have been treating thousands of children with these appliances from just the tooth pillows all the way through expanders, orthodontics, adult treatment. And the fact of the matter is, we just need to be talking about it because our children are being medicated for being tired. They're being medicated for things that are related to obstructive sleep apnea. And the parents are never being told, hey, how does your child sleep at night? Maybe we need a sleep study. Are they hyperactive? And that has to stop.

[B]

At what point do these get connected? So, you know, and I think about my childhood dentist experience. It was like you go in while and you wouldn't see the dentist till the end, right? You would have the person who does the cleaning. They would do the cleaning and then they would. And I don't even know what I think about this. Well, I'm not even bring up the fluoride.

[A]

Well, you can. I'd be happy to tell you.

[B]

Yeah, well, you know, you do the Tray of the fluoride. You get to pick your flavor. They all taste the same. They're disgusting. You have to sit there forever much and you spit it out. And you know that. So dentist to me was like that. And then the dentist comes in and taps your teeth. Cavities. No cavities. You're like on the edge of your seat, like about to throw up. And my mom's gonna be, you know, you got to come out, do I have it? Do I not have it? And then like in six months, I have to come do this again. So that is what dentist is. You know, to a lot of people growing up, that's the experience. And so, you know, when you talk about airway, I would think of just an ent. I would think of an ear, nose, throat doctor. That's it. At what point is it like, no, this is part of the dentist field? Yes.

[A]

Well, actually that changed fairly recently. So in 2017, the ADA came out with a physician paper that said dentists must be screening for obstructive sleep apnea and sleep disorder breathing. I was like, oh, it was this incredible thing. This is 2017. They were like, the onus is on you to be screening for it. But I mean, how many generations have happened before dentists were even told to look at it?

[B]

Well, I mean, the problem is, is that the parent then the parent knows nothing about it because their dentist experience had nothing to do with that. Even the phrase sleep disordered breathing, this is part of your world. You're helping thousands of families of children all over the country. You can get this. You don't have to be able to come to your office in Texas. Totally can get this. And it can help. Starting at age 3, this is at a young age, you can start to help. And we're going to talk about like, it's making sure that there's the right spacing in there.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

What is sleep disordered breathing?

[A]

Sleep disorder breathing is a spectrum of symptoms that your child might be dealing with that you think is not sleep related. So we should talk about that. And I like to talk about this spectrum because it's very important to understand that I don't want it to become full blown sleep apnea before we're doing anything about it. I want to catch it when there's just a little bit of mouth breathing. So when we look at the spectrum of sleep disorder breathing, it starts at the very beginning with a little bit of mouth breathing and it ends all the way with a obstructive sleep apnea. And the things that happen in between snoring, tooth grinding, gasping for air. At that point, I'm like, who? We're getting, like, all the way to the other end of the spectrum. The grinding gets so bad. I've seen the nerves in children's teeth exposed, like, taking off their enamel. But it also doesn't have to be that dramatic, you know, I mean, the parents that are like, oh, yeah, I hear him down the hallway. I mean, we've already had so much suffering at that point, but we need to be paying attention to not breathing well through our nose. Maybe when we're playing with our toys and being outside, you notice your kid's mouth is open when it should be closed. Also chewing. We don't think about our chewing and our swallowing. Like, when you're chewing food, your child should not be smacking. And the number of times a mom has felt so bad because she's like, I yell at him all the time because he's constantly smacking his food, not realizing he can't breathe through his nose. And if he can't breathe his nose, he's gonna smack more. So if you know your child can breathe through your nose, it's really important for them to be keeping their lips closed while they're chewing. Not just from an annoying, like, misophonic sort of thing where it's the sounds and them chewing, but because it means they're gonna have their lips closed and their tongue's gonna be pushing up really hard on the palate while they're. While they're chewing. Very, very important.

[B]

So parenting is really hard. And there's just a lot of things that you're like, I didn't know about this. I didn't know about that. And so to get to this point where you're like, okay, I didn't know about this at all. And then you're like, oh, you know, when my kid is playing or when they're practicing piano or when they're sitting at the table doing their schoolwork, their mouth is open. They're not breathing through their nose. And then you have this epiphany. Maybe you're listening right now, and you look over at your kid, you're like, oh, you know, maybe they can't breathe through their nose. This feels a little catastrophic and really scary because as a parent, you, like, I don't have the skills to know what to do. How do I teach them to breathe through their nose? Or what is a first couple steps here after you might notice.

[A]

And.

[B]

And you talk about, like, with ADD and adhd that there should not probably be medications that are prescribed until a sleep study has been done. And we talked about this in Dr. Ben, Dr. Ben Moralia came on. We talked about how when you sleep and you sleep well, you sleep deep. You sleep the way you're supposed to. It cleans your brain basically 100%. Otherwise it just ends up just like things on top of each other, on top of each other. So of course the kids can't pay attention. It might be a sleep thing. So if a parent hears this and they say, okay, I'm really overwhelmed by hearing that on top of all the other things I'm trying to deal with, maybe my kid can't breathe through their nose. What do you do next?

[A]

Well, first I would just tell them, take a deep breath, you are doing the best you can. And as soon as you know, that's the power of like, okay, we can do something. And the beautiful thing is if you didn't start at 3 or 4 or 5 or 6, you can still have help. Even at an adult, you can have help. Okay. But for your child, if you are noticing like, okay, maybe something that Dr. Hill is saying is like linking, I would start reading more. So if you go to the tooth pillow Instagram, actually Toothpill underscore official, there are. We spend so much time and money creating graphics that make a lot of sense for families to start connecting the dots. And then if you are like, okay, yep, these dots are connecting, we need an evaluation. That is where the Toothpillow platform is just worth its weight in gold. You go to the website, you click is my childhood a candidate? You are going to take all sorts of pictures, make sure your child is there, fill out a sleep questionnaire, fill out a medical history, give me everything you can think of that I need to know about your child, and then we're going to look at it and guide you in the right direction. Whether that is virtual care or if your child is a little too old and a little too severe, they need in office expanders, which we can talk about. Then we will help you to find the best person. Because for me, it's not about just every single person just getting a tooth pillow virtually. It's. We need customized care for these kids. You and we. I know the best of the best and we're going to make sure those families get in the right hands.

[B]

So there's a lot that this could be affecting. It could be affecting bedwetting, it could be affecting their sleep. The snoring, you say any sort of snoring is not good. It's impaired air. If they are snoring at all, they need to be seen by a dentist. This could be affecting anxiety. This could be affecting their grades. So actually, in a lot of ways, Kelly, it's a. Is a message of hope that you could possibly fix one thing. And in our family, we saw that. We saw that with bedwetting. We saw that with the bags under the eyes. You can fix one thing, and that might fix a multitude of things that you're struggling with in your home. Can you talk about why?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, totally. Yeah.

[B]

I mean, people are confused because they're like, well, this didn't used to be a thing. What's going. There's a lot going on.

[A]

Yeah. And I think it used to not be a thing as a common response for patients because they're just like, oh, now you're telling me about this. Like, you used to tell me about zoom whitening. Is this, like the next fad or whatever? And the fact of the matter is, this actually is not new. We have orthodontic literature to support myofunctional therapy and these habit corrector appliances that we use at toothpillow dating back 50 to 75 years. The problem is we just didn't know about it in dental school. So there was this big gap over the last probably 40 to 45 years where we have less and less dentists being taught it because it was pulled out of some of the curriculum. There were some politics involved. But you. I've got the history. We can go back to anthropological studies to show you that this makes such a difference. Now the question of why does it. Like, why is our sleep and our oxygen affects every organ in our body. There's not an organ that doesn't require oxygen to survive. Your brain, being one of the largest that needs the most is going to be the most affected. So talking about behavior from ADHD to odd, ODD does not get enough attention on social media right now. Oppositional defiant disorder. It is somewhat newer, I would say, on the diagnostics list, especially for a dentist to even hear about or maybe consider treating. But oppositional defined disorder is sort of this, like, blanket diagnosis for a kid who's super defiant and angry. And it's honestly, it's very sad. I treated many kids with this so successfully. It, like, brings tears to my eyes because these kids will come in. The mom and dad are just like, we're at our wit's end. Like, there's nothing we. We can't. And I feel for them this is not. This has nothing to do with, like, their, like, level of parenting. This is a serious thing that happens. And I just. I usually pull the moms aside and I'm like, look, I know this is a lot. It's costly. There's a lot we have to do. And it's overwhelming to think that somehow this dentist is going to, like, fix your kids, you know, ODD or adhd. I was like, but you have to trust me, because the success that we've had, you are going to get your baby back. And it just makes them cry because they just. They want that so much. And in the beginning, I was very hesitant to promise that. I don't. I don't promise that, like, oh, yeah, next week she's all yours again. Like, she's gonna like you again or whatever. But it. Because it does take some months. But Ginny, like, the letters I get written like this mom passed me a letter in secret she didn't want her daughter to see. This was, like, maybe a month ago. And it was just like, you have no idea what you have done for us. Like this. This is. And all I did was make sure that they were breathing right when they're sleeping. To me, I'm like, I didn't do very much, but I know that that was the thing that was going to get their brain to at least be able to recover better, process better. I mean, we all do better with sleep. So I think the biggest take home is just to understand that your oxygen in your sleep affects your entire day and your entire life. So knowing that, why wouldn't it help? Certain symptoms that we already know are linked to sleep disordered breathing. So, so then once you're like, okay, I can. I can see. I can gather that I've been sleep deprived before I been a new mom, been cranky, like, all that. When you don't sleep, you don't sleep well. Then the. The next thing to really be able to connect the dots on for these parents is that it's related to your jaws. And that's a harder one because that's like, well, why. You know, why. Why does my kids, potential braces or whatever, have anything to do with their sleep or breathing? And that just is a matter of understanding the anatomy. So our. Our nasal maxillary complex, which is a fancy word for your nose, and maxillary, which is your upper jaw complex, is everything. The roof of your mouth is the floor of your nose. So the more narrow your maxilla, the more narrow the roof of your mouth, the higher up that palate is going to be. Which goes right up into the nose. So you can get a deviated septum. You can actually develop a deviated septum because your palate was too narrow. And it's like, oh, yeah, why did they have that? Why did they grow with that? So if you can understand that your nasal breathing is, like, one of the most important things we have to make sure our children are nasal breathers first and foremost. The easiest thing I would say is just we have to make sure they're nasal breathers. So if we can connect that, then it's like, do whatever you need to do to my kid to make sure they're a nasal breather. So I hope that makes sense. But that's kind of like the. The why behind how we need to connect the dots on these random symptoms that a dentist says they're going to help with.

[B]

Right, Right. Because I don't think, you know, especially if you didn't grow up with this, and it's, you know, it didn't really start to be connected till 2017. There are probably a majority of parents who would never think, my kid, you know, has been diagnosed with ODD. I should go to the dentist.

[A]

100. I know.

[B]

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[A]

Yes, and that's the hardest part for me because when I see these kids at 12, 13, 14, which is really high on the growth curve, like we are throwing the kitchen sink at these kids at that point, at that age, I'm like, the number of years this poor baby had to suffer before somebody got it right. And that's, that's where the collaboration is so important because, I mean, from the level of pediatricians paying attention to tongue and lip ties, nothing gets me fired up more. They don't, they tell parents it's a fad, don't get it. It's a, it's going to hurt them. Like all sorts of misinformation. And really the tongue and liptide discussion is when they're like newborn babies, which is the time, the prime time, to make sure that their muscles and their tongue are free and moving like they're supposed to. Anyways, all of that is so important. And again, just the earlier you start, the better. I don't want to wait till the child is grinding their teeth to where I can see the nerve. I don't want to wait till the child is having a sleep study. Like I talk about the need for it, but it's like, yeah, we need it. Once you've got ADD and they want to medicate you, like all of this stuff. But couldn't we have identified that before? Because there was a wear on the baby teeth. Maybe there was a crossbite. Maybe they had an underbite like your children. Maybe they had a massive, like, overjet, which is with her lower jaws just so small back. And everybody's like, oh, just, you know, we'll wait till the baby teeth fall out. We'll put some braces on there. You know, it's like the whole narrative of waiting until the baby teeth fall out. I'm like, your head and neck is 94. Developed as a girl by 12. Like, so, so can we just, can we rewind the clock a little bit? Maybe start at 3 or 5 or 7? You know, it's just so, so important. And I do want it to be the thing I'm remembered for that. I said start as early as possible and helped these moms to at least get educated about this information.

[B]

Yeah, and this is a widespread, rampant thing. There was a statistic that said 93% of kids have malocclusion, crooked teeth, which is a visual sign. Hopefully I said that correctly. A visual sign of underdeveloped jaws that could cause possible breathing issues. So I think that orthodontics, at least when I was growing up, was all about the way that you look. So I have a crossbite. I remember going to the dentist or orthodontist, I guess, and them saying, you have a slight crossbite. But mostly my teeth were straight. And so that was it. Like they're mostly straight. And that's, that's the end of the story. Because it was about cosmetic. Can you talk then about the long term? So obviously these, they're short term things here as well. I mean, this is their one childhood and if they are exhausted and their brains aren't getting that proper clean out every night, there are a lot of ramifications for that. But then children become adults. Can you talk then about adults with sleep apnea? So what you can be doing, and this is sort of our experience now. Our experience and I, we talked about this last time, was that we drove an hour and a half to two hours, one way to get help for our kids for a very long time because we have a fair amount of kids and. And then the wonderful woman who treated our kids retired and it was, it's really hard to find. I mean she was, I felt like she's like part of our family.

[A]

Oh, absolutely. Oh, I love that.

[B]

We spent so much time with her. And like I said, we didn't know about it, but it was the underbite that led us down this journey where you start to think, think, oh, this is not really only about cosmetics. This is about functionality and this will help our kids for the rest of their life because now they can breathe better and they can sleep better. So can you talk about how then this shows up in adulthood?

[A]

Yes, I think that's really important because some parents, I still figure on the fence of like, do I really just treat now like they can worry about this, they can pay for it themselves, themselves when they're 25, you know, and it's so important to understand the severity of these cases once they get out of that growth window and then they're going into treatment as an adult or not. So we can talk about both of those things, what the treatment looks like. For some of these adults and also the symptoms. So one of my biggest passions now is teaching dentists and making sure that they understand that a snoring child becomes a snoring adult and a tooth grinding child turns into a tooth grinding adult to separate them out and imply they would grow out of it. There's actually zero evidence for. So anybody that's listening to this, if you're a dentist or whatever, stop saying that it's not true and recognize that we're treating issues in adulthood as general dentists that were present in childhood. So one of my, one of my favorite slides when I'm lecturing is this man's bite, adult male's bite, full crossbite on the right side. And he has lost so much enamel. So basically we call it, his vertical dimension has decreased because as you chew and grind your teeth down, down, down, it's like gets smaller and smaller and smaller. Right. So he's, he has needed, I mean a new car's worth of dentistry in his mouth for one, like in crown work and bridges and whatever, but also suffers from a stroke of sleep apnea. And so I look at this picture and I go, I know exactly what he looked like when he was 6. And I know how different his life would have been had somebody corrected this when he was six. Right. And so, and this, the, the, the real side effects stuff that I get worried about is we keep hearing about adult adults younger and younger having cancer. We keep hearing adults younger and younger having heart attacks. The cardiovascular impact of obstructive sleep apnea is actually a huge burden on our GDP and our just overall health costs in America. And it is a massive problem. So anything we can do to lessen that burden by treating early is helping the person, which is the most important part. But also all these, these, all these doctors that are having to treat ailments that could have been prevented in childhood. And so I, I don't want any parent to look at this early treatment and think it's cosmetic like what you were talking about a second ago. Because that definitely was and still is the narrative behind orthodontics, especially traditional orthodontics. In the airway world we like to call ourselves functional or like it's functional orthodontics that we're doing because it is impacting so much about their future. I often say we're changing the trajectory of these kids lives, we're changing their longevity, we're changing the way they're going to age, how healthy they're going to be from inflammation in their body. Because everything about mouth breathing just kills your system. I have a quote going around on social media right now that says your mouth breathing is probably going to be what kills you. And I said it like that on purpose because I wanted people to understand how bad mouth breathing is, because we don't know. They don't know. They don't realize that that is the pathway and the gateway to obstructive sleep apnea. And your heart attack risk is 30% higher in 10 years if you have severe sleep apnea.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

30% higher risk of heart attack. Just that. So. So even if you're healthy, you don't have, you know, bad cholesterols and all the other things we're looking at and glucose dysregulation and all the rest of the things that we're worried about in general, that we all suffer. A lot of us suffer from the United States. It's like, okay, but the mouth breathing, that's also super dangerous. So I just worry about these young families and these grandparents and our moms and dads of, like, what's happening at night for them? Like, are they going to suffer a cardiovascular event because they had sleep apnea that their dentist never caught? Because the answer to that is yes, absolutely they can. And then how bad is it? So when we talk about sleep studies, I don't sleep test a ton of children because it doesn't. I don't really have to. Now, the really severely ones that I treat, because I treat the most severe in Texas, I will sleep study. I will sleep test. Because we've got to make some, you know, we've got to make some decisions about surgery or whatever. Adults, every single one. I don't care if you're 25. I don't care if you're 35. You need a baseline sleep test at some point in your life, because guess what? You're a terrible witness to your sleep. You actually have no idea how well you sleep, despite what you want to tell me in the chair. Oh, yeah, I sleep great. And in a way, I'm looking at your teeth, and your teeth are screaming at me that you are definitely not sleeping well. So it's so important, and it's very easy. People think sleep study. They think, like, all the leads all over your head and, like, laying in this bed that might have somebody else's, like, sweat on it or whatever. Somebody's staring at you all night. Like, it's just the stories I've heard, and I've. And I have had patients come back from, like, in lab studies and like there was like a hair on the nightstand. I was like, so it's gotten so much better because you can do home sleep tests and if you can find an airway dentist like me that has them, you can literally just take it home with you, sleep in the comfort of your own bed for a couple of nights. You get a way better result because you're, you're just in a more normal environment, you know, and you will get the answers that you need as far as your severity there with the home sleep studies. So it's, it's really important. Wives, make your husbands do it. Husbands, if you're listening and your wife, your wife is snoring and you're afraid to tell her, just tell her. Because if you meet her around, she needs to be able to be breathing at night properly. And there's just a lot of good solutions for them as well.

[B]

I, I talked to this woman, I really like her. Her name's Katie Bowman and she is a biomechanist. And she says that osteoporosis is a childhood disease that shows up in adulthood. And it's because kids are supposed to jump in land and have all of these load bearing things that happen for their skeletal system in order for that to grow and to be strong. And so this is such an interesting similar thing. And, and in, in some ways it's worse because not only does it show up in adulthood, but it also can make childhood hard as well. You know, if a kid sits around their whole childhood playing video games or, or whatever and not jumping and okay, that's one thing. And then it's going to show up when they're 50 or 60. They don't have a strong bone structure. But these kids are miserable. So it's like their childhood is miserable and it's going to lead to an adulthood that's more difficult. And so I just, I'm so glad to be able to have these conversations, to get the word out there because it's, it's like I said something that we would not have known about. And when we had the conversations as a couple, like my husband and I, about, I, I remember, I remember Kelly going to the back with it. You know, we went to the dentist, we went in this back room, she had all these, she was showing us about it, the jaw, the airway. And I remember, and then she went through the cost and, and for us, I mean it was, it was astronomical in comparison to what you can do with tooth pillow. And it was a heavy lift. That's the words I use, because it was a lot of driving back and forth. It was really far. And I remember having those conversations. This was a decade or so ago. Like, we didn't know about. I don't even know if Tupel was around at that point. This was our option. And. And having the conversations of, like, this is not just cosmetic. It's functional. And so, you know, you kind of feel like this is what you need to do for your kid in order for them to have a successful childhood that leads into the adulthood. And what's interesting that we learned is that not only do the braces not touch the functional part, if you just do braces, they also don't really work for the cosmetic part either, because there's not enough room. The teeth go back. So can you.

[A]

Absolutely. Oh, my gosh, I'm so glad you brought that up. So especially. Okay, everything you said is 100% correct. And I like to say that the cosmetics of what I do are the side effect of proper breathing and sleep. And I love saying that because it just makes people think, like, what, you're not, like, moving the teeth? I'm like, no, we're expanding the jaws. But one of the things that I just literally cannot wrap my head around is how permanent teeth are still being pulled for braces for the sake of straight teeth. Okay. So this has been happening forever. It is a complete epidemic of teeth just getting pulled because. Because they don't know how to expand the jaws or whatever, and parents don't know either way. They had never listened to you or me or anything, and they're just like, oh, okay, this is what we do. Her mouth's too small. You know, but the fact of the matter is, I'm. I see these patients as adults now, so. So they come in, they've had their teeth pulled. It is a freaking dumpster fire. It not only has that relapsed, the teeth literally can't bear the load anymore of a bite that has a tongue that's too big because the jaws are, you know, too small. And they're losing teeth. They're. They're. They're losing gums. It's like. And I just look at this, and I'm like, this was preventable. You did not need to be. Now you're spending all this money, and it is so expensive to be treated as an adult. It is worth it. Thousand percent. You got to do it. I mean, it's about how you're going to age, and if you want to live a nice, healthy, long life right but you're in this position now.

[B]

Yeah. And let's talk about that, because I think that is if you don't know, which most people don't know. We didn't know, you just say, well, when they're 12, you get braces and it costs $3,000, and hopefully the insurance will pay for a part of it, or at least, you know, maybe all of it, but part of it. So as a. If you don't know what you don't know, then you would think, well, if it's not that bad. But they can get their own braces, like you said, when they're 26 and they can pay the $3,000. It's not that.

[A]

No, not at all. It is. Well, I mean, I was gonna say it's not $3,000.

[B]

I guess in my mind that's what I, you know, I'm like, oh, braces are about. I didn't have them. So, you know, I'm like, okay, braces are about $3,000. Maybe they're $5,000. I don't know. I guess there's been inflation. Right.

[A]

Who cares? Whatever, we'll do it. Whatever.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, it's kind of like that. Or like, we can't do it now, but when they're an adult and they've got a job, they'll probably be able to have $5,000. But like you said, it's a car's worth amount of money to fix. I talk about that a lot with my midwife. Like, she would say, and we say, you either pay now or you pay later.

[A]

100%. Oh, my God. Yes.

[B]

You're like a young mom and you're like, we don't. I don't have the money for this. There.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So you're like, you either pay now or you pay later. And if you pay later, you pay a lot more.

[A]

Oh, absolutely. I mean, just with your health and all the things that your kid probably suffered with leading up to that point. Absolutely.

[B]

Emotionally and yes.

[A]

I'm like, what is the cost? What is the true cost? We don't actually know the answer to that. What is the true cost if you do not get your child into proper job growth and development and done by the time they're 12, 13, 14, what is the actual cost to that child going to be? Is your kid can be the one popping Adderalls in college because they can't focus and like, the money they're spending on that, what's happening to their body, what's happening to their inflammation, their sleep, is it going to affect whether or not they go to college, if they want to, or if they want to become a doctor. Like, are they going to be able to do that? I mean, the. The thoughts that swirl in my mind of the kids that we have helped become c. Go from being a C student to an A student, being able to read their creativity. I mean, there is so much more just in brain development in that age of birth to. To the age that we're talking about that I'm like, it's. It's determining who they are and like, to allow them to be to their fullest potential. You have to start early and you just have to be screened early. I mean, like I said, we can help as adults, but it is so much harder.

[B]

And even it's like, look, it's 93. So probably.

[A]

I know. Probably. I know.

[B]

There's.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And Dr. Ben talked about this. If people want to go back and listen, these episodes still get played. I mean, they're from a while ago. You and I talked a while ago. Dr. Ben talked a while ago. People are still listening. But one of the things that he was talking about was how Jaws used to develop, and it has a lot to do with nutrition. He even talked about the. The switch to these really soft baby foods that, you know, the kid probably should be. They're working on their jaw. They're kind of like, you give them a big old carrot or you gotta be safe. Obviously you don't want them to choke.

[A]

But they need to use their muscles. Yes.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And that they have to use their muscles.

[B]

They can atrophy so quickly.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And so starting when they're really little, then they could be heading down a path that you don't want to have them headed down. There's a. There is a lot to know. And I guess, I don't know, we. I've read some of the stuff from Dr. Weston A. Price.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Which is interesting. So he would go to these other cultures, and especially before they had the junk food, before the ultra foods came in, they would have these wives smiles. They didn't need the cosmetic work.

[A]

Right. Not at all.

[B]

Their jaws developed the way that they were supposed to.

[A]

They also had their wisdom teeth, Jenny. They had room for their wisdom teeth that were always pulling. I mean, it's like wild when you look at it. And Dr. Moralia has been under fire. I've been in the room when this has happened, where they're like, we can't believe. You're not. You're saying none of this is genetic. It's like, we literally have evidence of that. You've just been taught wrong, that this is a disease of Western culture. But guess how many generations in we are. You're right. It's 93 now. Like, all of us have issues even. And moms will tell me I breastfed till they were five. Like, what is going on? Why is this still happening? I'm like, well, good thing you did, because it would for sure be worse had you not. And it's already. But, yes, your child still needs treatment and good thing something exists.

[B]

That's an interesting point too, the breastfeeding. I mean, we, yeah, we breastfed for a long time and still had the small jaws. I mean, our kids breastfed for a long time. But even that, that's an important thing to know, that working the muscles the way that they're supposed to work the tongue and all of that. So it all works together. And there's a lot to know. There's a lot to know. But then there's also, there's also, if you're aware of it, if you're aware of the fact that they need to breathe through their nose and their jaws should be a certain size and we shouldn't be extracting teeth. It allows you to start to walk down a different path. And if you could look back, if you could look back at, I guess, the Weston A. Price foundation, they show the pictures of these, like, wide smiles with all the teeth and all, and they're perfectly straight.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Didn't need braces. You really start to get a sense of what it should be like. And I know. And then you can start to think through nutritional things for pregnancy. You can start to think through checking for the tongue and lip ties right when they're born.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Should be like standard of care.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

This affects how you do weaning.

[A]

I know. Absolutely. Absolutely. Like, I mean, I would say breastfeed as long as. As long as you can. As long as you want to. As long as it's healthy for you and your baby and whatever. But baby led weaning is an important part of introducing foods. Like you said, carrots and stuff. Like, we've got to have our kids chewing on things to help that muscle. So you're right. There is a lot I do, I do feel for parents, especially when they're new to this idea, because there are so many things that we've talked about already today that, like, they need to be looking at or, you know, thinking about or whatever.

[B]

There's a lot. But it's one umbrella. It's Kind of.

[A]

Yeah, that's what I was doing. That's why we created toothpaste, like because we're going to help you get that education. But you're right, it's all under one umbrella. The whole area here needs to be developed.

[B]

Yeah. From the, from the top of the nose to the bottom of the chin and, and you have, you've like such got great slogans. It's like changing lives overnight. Your kids can do this with their eyes closed. Our kids had headgear. I mean we homeschool, so it was not that big of a deal. But I'm like, they would have had to go to school with the things on, you know, at age 5, starting kindergarten. Starting kindergarten. And so this is a. Just a great solution where it's mainly overnight plus maybe another hour or two you've got the time to do it and they're not wear to school and they're not having to. You know, our kids are like, you know, like, yeah.

[A]

You know, they have a hard time.

[B]

Talking, they have a hard time eating. It really is, it's like a grace. It's like a, it's a gift. It's. It's like bestowing something that really changes so much on. For your child and, and for the whole family unit. Then that affects so a lot and people. So look, go to toothpillow.com and you can learn a little bit more if you, if you have concerns, you don't have to jump right in. You don't have to sign up on the dotted line today. But, but you can actually start to kind of learn and see what, what might be the downstream effect, what's trickling down, what might term snowball effect of this? What are some ways that I can help my kid? And I am so passionate about it, knowing how much we paid in both time and finances, that there is this other option and you can start younger. And it wasn't available when our kids were little, so I don't think.

[A]

Yeah, no, definitely not. And I, and I'm. Oh, the appliances. Oh, they were around. They were around, but we just weren't offered them because the people that we were seeing were not trained to them. That's where I go back to the. These literally these functional appliances have gone through many versions in the last 75 years. And it's just a most, most incredible thing to realize. Like, nope, I was the one that was behind. Right. Like there were doctors using this. Like Ben Morales got me by at least 20 years. He's been doing this that much longer than me. And when I met the guy, I was, like, completely enthralled with his information. I was like, you just changed my life, which inevitably has now changed every single patient I treat in the way I look at it. And that's. That's the beautiful part of. Of continuing to educate yourself in. In all arenas around health, when you're a provider, a dentist, doctor, whatever, is that you have to recognize that dentistry and medicine is always changing. You should challenge the narrative. You should ask why. You should make sure whatever we're doing is still the best thing instead of just doing what you always did. And orthodontics has been doing what you kind of always did for way too long. And that's where. That's where this movement has just been so cool to be a part of, because the target on my back was very, very large seven years ago, but it's gotten smaller and smaller. Like, it's so much smaller.

[B]

I just can't stand that. It's like, why would there ever be a target on someone's back for helping children?

[A]

I know, I know. It's just the idea that what I was handing out was snake oil and I was greedy and just, like, stuff like that. And meanwhile, the families have never been happier. The kids have never been healthier. The results speak for themselves. And now when you've treated over 10,000 kids, like I have, I'm like, come at me, bro. Like, what do you need to know? Because let me just help you to do it because your patients deserve it.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it's not about that. It's about helping those individuals 100%. And so people come at you all the. All they want, and you're like, look, here's the letters. Here's the letters. Here's all that are doing better in school and not letting the bed.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So ours was called orthotropics. That. That would. Was one. And, you know, I just remember there was only a couple options, and there certainly wasn't anything that you could get in the mail. And our. Ours did talk about myofunctional therapy, you know, but this is all one package. You know, you. You get all of it.

[A]

Yes. Yeah. We've tried to just bring it in a way that is as affordable as possible. It's still expensive for families, like, especially if you have two or three or four kids that all need it all at once. I mean, we. We know, but we've gotten the cost down as low as we possibly can to stay a company. And the myofunctional Therapy, being part of our group is absolutely essential to the success for these families. There's no myofunctional therapist where some of these people live at all. The idea that like, like the virtual care, you know, is, is, you know, increasing the access should not upset any myofunctional therapists that have patients in office, because these patients couldn't go to you anyway. It's like. And we're so. We're bringing the best of the best together and we are constantly having meetings. How can we improve the patient experience? What else do we need to bring to the table? We just did a beautiful collab with Myo Munchie. Not sure if you're familiar with Myo Munchie. My Munching is a fabulous chewing appliance that we've added into some of our kits. And there's just been raving responses by that. So as we improve our product line and what we can bring to families, we're improving the patient experience. We do tons of feedback. We get tons of feedback from the current patients. And I'm forever grateful for them, especially the very, very early ones who did this with us so they could help us to figure out how can we make it better. First and foremost, it's just about having healthy, healthier and healthier kids so that they turn into healthier adults so that maybe they don't need treatment when they're older.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And the myofunctional therapy is a scary word and not one that I'd ever heard until I was an adult. But we had a myofunctional therapist on called Myohacker, which I love because it's amazing. Biohacker.

[A]

It's so creative.

[B]

But she just means. And now I can't remember, but she, like, simplified it. It's just like. What is it?

[A]

Well, it's basically just PT for your tongue, physical therapy for your mouth. I mean, it's like the most. That's how I explain it to patients. I'm like, the myofunctional therapist is going to teach you how to use your tongue, which is a weird thing to think about. And she's going to check to make. She or he's going to check to make sure that you can actually do certain things you're supposed to be able to do. I was horribly tongue tied. I don't know if we talked about that last show or not, but I had a tip to end tongue tie until I was 36, 37 years old. Had it fixed was the most incredible thing I ever did. For my neck. I never had a problem eating. I never had a problem speaking. My dad and mom say I came out of the womb talking. So I missed all the little signs and symptoms for anybody to ever say they should have fixed it for me when I was a kid. And who. That recovery was quite sore for that, you know, during that time. And I wish anything it would have been fixed when I was little. So myofunctional therapy was not a thing, you know, in the 80s and 90s, anywhere, anywhere near where I was. And so I'm very happy the parents know what it is now.

[B]

It's great, though. It's physical therapy for your tongue. That's basically what this. I couldn't remember the wording she used, but it was probably similar where you're like, oh, that makes it seem less scary. So in our case, we had this wonderful woman who did the care for our older three kids, and then she retired. So then our fourth one, she. This. Before we learned about you, this. She ended up with someone else, and he just wasn't. I. I think he just did, like, the. The woman who did our. Our care for our older kids was like, pioneering it. I think she was out teaching. She was a very passionate about it, and she'd been doing it for a long time.

[A]

Time.

[B]

So then she retires, and we end up in this with this other guy. Same thing where we're driving really far. And it just wasn't his passion. And he was good at it, but it wasn't his passion. So the original woman, she knew all about the myofunctional therapy. She would be checking their swallowing at each appointment. You know, she'd squirt the water. Show me how you swallow. Well, that didn't happen with kid number four. So what was so interesting is that she got her. Now her jaw is big enough, but her teeth are kind of crooked like one is. And so we actually called the original lady, and we were like, can you just. Did he do something wrong? Like, is something wrong?

[A]

Totally.

[B]

And so she met us. This is so wild, Kelly. She met us in a parking lot at Panera. Like, she's retired. She was like, I'll be driving through. Just bring her. We're gonna meet at this Panera. And here's what she said. When she swallows, she's pushing her tongue out.

[A]

Oh, she's thrusting.

[B]

She's thrusting. And she said that you would not imagine how powerful. Powerful the tongue muscle is to brush those teeth out of.

[A]

So.

[B]

So she does have enough space. That's good. You Know the, the appliances.

[A]

But she needs the muscle part. Yes.

[B]

The myofunctional therapy part. And he didn't, he must not have, like, been checking the swallow and the, you know.

[A]

Right.

[B]

The difference between the two and to the point of the PT for the tongue matters. So I think you would think, okay, well, we got to get braces for this kid. You know, this one tooth is crooked.

[A]

That wouldn't help.

[B]

Would only.

[A]

No, no, no. And it would relapse. Absolutely. Well, that's so powerful. Yeah, I, I, I often remind my docs, too, that I oversee. I'm like, don't forget about the swallow. Because it's a pretty easy thing to show parents, like, squirt a little water in, have the kids swallow. And then I like to kind of hold the lips out of the way and have them swallow. And then you see the thrusting. And so if I just gently let the teeth show, you will see that big old tongue muscle, like, pushing forward and doing weird things. And that is just the encouragement I have for the parents to that point is like, listen, this is something that you need a myofunctional therapist for. I have made the jaws wide. I have done that part of the job. But we, if we don't get the muscle component right, you're going to undo some of this. And it's really, it's, it's just, it's important to understand the importance of it, which is why we brought it to the masses. And tooth pillow, because like you said, it's a scary word. Nobody had a clue what it was. And now we have so much social media presence around myofunctional therapy and how, how important these therapists are for the families.

[B]

And think about how much you swallow all the time, how many times a day do you swallow? And every single time, that tongue is thrusting forward. So these are all the things, I guess I, I feel like it's such a blessing to be able to share the things that you didn't know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To people who may not know them, especially given how much it has helped our family and how you have made this so much more accessible and affordable. It is a lot more affordable than our situation was. It was worth it, for sure. But this is a lot more accessible and a lot more affordable. A lot easier. It's, it's happening mostly at night. You know, your kids can do this with their eyes closed. I mean, these are really clever.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

Okay, let's talk just real briefly about adults. So, you know, you've got adults that are listening in 93%, you know, people are, have got a little bit of a mess here. It's a really high percentage. It maybe was less 10 or 20 years ago, I don't know. But it's a high percentage.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So then sometimes you feel like, okay, maybe I'm beyond repair or maybe for the first time, you're connecting. My sleep apnea may not have to do with weight. It may not have to do with tonsils. I may be. I'm saying that wrong.

[A]

No, no, no, you're saying exactly right. I mean, I think ultimately the sleep apnea started when these adults were small and teenagers. So you've developed into this dysfunction and you're just, just sort of used to it. But I want to highlight how important it is for adults to have a sleep study, just like we talked about earlier at some point in their life to figure out their severity. Because there's a big variety in treatment options from clear aligners, which is what I did for myself, to undo the damage that I had had done with orthodontics as a child, to surgery. You know, we have a lot of people that go through either double jaw surgery or they get the Marpi appliance screwed into the roof of their mouth or the non surgical option like we do with the DNA or an MRNA appliance. And then the clear aligner aspect, which is just beautiful because if you have teeth that are very, very tipped in, you can upright them so beautifully and make a lot more room for the tongue. The question is just what is the best for you? Right? Everybody's jaws are a little bit different. We need to measure, we need to go in and do an exam. So we will help you. Anybody can DM me the airway center dentist if they need help finding a provider, like an adult provider in their state. But many have noticed that we have a coming soon tab on toothpillow for teens and adults that is going to an incredible aligner therapy and coupled perhaps with some sleep appliance. We're very excited. This will not be entirely virtual, though. That's the part where I hate to break hearts, but you're fully grown and this will require an in office exam and in office diagnostics and then digital scans. So we have, we are beta testing right now in a number of states or we have some incredible orthodontists who have decided to work with us. We're so excited. So if you go to the teens and adult page, you can put your email address in and you'll be first to know in each State when we're ready to deliver a beautiful patient experience. The beautiful thing is you can go in office and then we're hoping to remotely monitor and remotely manage the case that will take so much travel off of your, off of your day and time. So we're very excited about that. Jenny. I'm just like, oh, this has been the harder one to really, like, figure out how to navigate for families, keep it cost effective, but find the right people.

[B]

Wow. Well, the thing, and it's incredible. It's like a crawl, walk, run, like, okay, we figure out how to do it for the kids and hit them early. And now that we have the system in place, maybe, maybe we can take it with a couple in office visits with some partners around the country and, and do this thing that would really. Because to your point, you know, when you talk about ADHD and odd and anxiety and bedwetting, there are a similar cascade of symptoms that an adult could have.

[A]

Have.

[B]

You know, we're not, we're not calling it odd anymore or, or something.

[A]

Probably.

[B]

I don't know. I could be wrong about that. I don't. But like, for.

[A]

No, no, they're, they're really not in adults. I mean, you're just medicated for neurological stuff that, you know, adhd. I mean, definitely adults take medications for ADHD and whatnot. But I worry more about, I do worry about the brain a lot. I worry about the brain health a lot. Decision making, reflexes, driving while tired. I mean, you, you read the rates of collision from obstructive sleep apnea and it makes you scared to drive because like so many people around you are probably driving sleep deprived and didn't sleep that night. So, yeah, there's, there's so much involved with it. And ultimately, I don't know anybody that doesn't want to live a healthy, long life, see their kids, get married, have grandchildren, all of that. And if something this simple can, can be the catalyst for you getting the right help and, and fixing, fixing your inflammation in your body and your brain, like, why aren't we screening for it?

[B]

Oh, I'm so excited about it. And I, you know what's interesting? It'll be like a similar thing, Kelly, where people will be like, I've never heard of that. Like, what? Yes, tipped in teeth, tipped into it.

[A]

And I have a habit of just saying dental terms and I'm just like.

[B]

I'm like, are mine tipped in? I don't know.

[A]

I've never heard of that before. I just posted a case actually yesterday. It is as A story, a reel. So it should still be on there. Of an incredible. One of my best friends, actually, we just finished her case. Took about two years, year and a half, two years. And there was so much uprighting that we were able to do with the aligner. So when I say Tipton, I say go in the mirror, look at your tongue. Tongue. Look at your teeth on the bottom. See if they're leaning in towards your tongue. Most of them are, because if you've had orthodontics the wrong way, everything got squished in. So our expansion techniques, like we're going to use a two pillow is going to just totally lift all that up. Her before and afters are wild. You have to go look later tipped in teeth.

[B]

And then you went through. And, you know, I think that this is also a message of hope. There were a lot of options. You were like, you were throwing all these words out there, like this surgery thing, and that's good. I know we only have a limited amount of. Of time, but it just goes to show that there are different options available depending on severity. I saw and talking. Speaking about things that you see on Instagram, and I can't remember who it was, but I saw someone who had gone through as an adult. I think they were expanding the jaw. You could see the teeth starting to separate. I don't know what they did or who it was through. But what was so interesting, Kelly was, she said, this is changing me in ways I could have never expected.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Isn't it crazy when you start breathing better and you can notice that, that your. Your clarity of mind, your fatigue, just kind of like your zest for the day, how calm you can be, honestly thinking about what we deal with all day, especially in dentistry, I. I get hit, hey, this, that, whatever. All day. It's. There's an incredible burden of just like information overload as a provider, as a mom, all of us, and to recognize that you can cope with that better all of a sudden and like, oh, my gosh, this is. I was just doing this because I wanted, like, better breathing or I wanted my teeth to be straighter or whatever. And I'm getting these. I'm getting the effect of what a healthy, oxygenated brain feels like. It's crazy.

[B]

Yeah, it's crazy. She was like, I feel like I'm more open to the world. I mean, it was things that you would never expect, and yet the, the amount of things that this touches and so then think about that for your kids.

[A]

Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, and you think you, you don't even know, like, as an adult, that maybe you're dealing with that because you're used to your dysfunction. I mean, with anything else. Like, you're used to the way you swallow. You're used to, like, having your mouth open when you sleep. You used to. You don't. You don't realize what life could be like with really good sleep.

[B]

This is your normal. But your normal. Your normal may be dysfunctional.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Yeah. So I remember, like. Like when we first came across Toothpillow and I went to the website, I remember seeing the four adults part, and I was like, oh, wait, what? Okay, you know, so that's great. People can go to the website. It's really informational. So if you're listening to this for the first time and you feel overwhelmed, you can go there, you can get your feet wet. You can kind of start to, you know, dabble around with it. You look at pictures, you can see. I think the pictures are really powerful. When our. When our woman showed she had scans, you know, like an X ray with the underbite, which was age 4 up until. And we were with her for a while with our kids. You know, the final. The final X ray, I mean, it is like a completely different head. And you can see how it would have been. Like, the neck is. I mean, it's just wild. It looks uncomfortable.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And there was speech issues. You know, it's like all of the things that it touched. It was so many things that it touched. So.

[A]

So I love the X ray that you show before and after. I really do. Like, it's so powerful, and I can really appreciate it because I can read that thing. I know what I'm looking at in there, you know, But I feel like even in layman's terms, you can look at that X ray, that cone beam.

[B]

That is a picture worth a thousand words. Because you can look and see that would have been a miserable existence. It would have stayed like that for the whole childhood and into adulthood. And so the pictures are really powerful. If people look at your Instagram or they look on the website and they see the pictures of the kids and the smiles and their profiles and. And all of that, like, even that, you can tell. You can tell the vibrancy. You can see it. You can see the change there. And so it's. And if you're interested in the adults, make sure you're signed up. I. I'm interested. I was like, I want to know. Coming soon. I want to know.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

I so appreciate your time. I mean, you are seeing patients and you have these tens of thousands of people who have gone through. You guys are touching all these different cases.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

So you got your. And yet you took the time to come and explain and give all the information here. I'm so grateful for it and looking forward to all that's to come. I mean, it's. Isn't it cool? It's like you're.

[A]

Yes. So fun.

[B]

You're growing at the same time.

[A]

Absolutely. And it really was an honor that you asked me to come on again, Jenny. Seriously, like, I'm like, oh my gosh. Absolutely. She wants to hear what I have to say again. Let's do it. So I really appreciate your time today too. And I will always make time for you. Hopefully you get to meet in person some voice.

[B]

Yes. Yes. Thank you so much for being here.

[A]

Have a good one. Also, I really think you should go into standup comedy because that initial. I wanted to say this on the R that we kept going, but your little dental thing, the. The dentist experience, you said of like, hold the fluoride, spit it out, it's gross. Hold your breath. Your mom's gonna get mad at you. Tap on the teeth. I was like, oh my gosh. That was so everybody's experience. So everybody's experience. So anyways, you should. Yeah, you should do.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

I'll do it.

[B]

I'll add a dentist bathe.

[A]

Okay. Okay. Sounds. Goodbye.

[B]

Just a reminder, if Toothpillow is interesting to you, TooThPillow is offering 1,000 hours outside listeners a special discount for the first week. Use code 1,000 hours in the who's the person we can thank for referring you [e-mail] and you'll get a free tooth pillow consultation that's worth $50 and 250 off your treatment. That's valid for the next week until November 27, 2025. And if you listen after or sign up after November 27, you can still use code 1000hours to get 25 off your consultation and $100 off your treatment plan. From there on out, let everyone know the holidays mean more travel, more shopping, more time online and more personal info in more places that could expose you.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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