← The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
1KHO 629: Good Enough Is Both Good and Enough | Niro Feliciano, All is Calm-ish
00:52:38
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- [00:01]
A
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- [00:30]
B
All right, here we go. Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Eric. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside, and we are going to be talking about the holidays today. Holidays can be so stressful, but we want them to be so wonderful. And the author of all is Culmish, which is such a great title, is here. Niro Feliciano, welcome.
- [00:48]
C
Thank you so much for having me.
- [00:51]
B
Okay. I love the title. All is Calmish. It's so great. This is about feeling less frantic and more festive during the holidays. We. Which is so important, like, we want to enjoy these years. And I read your book and I was like, I relate to everything. And like, every year I'm like, next year, I'm not doing this. We're always wrapping presents on Christmas Eve, like, heading into Christmas morning, like, every year. And every year I'm like, I'm not going to do it again next year. And then I do it. And every year it's like, who has what and what do we get for so and so? And I thought I had a list and I got. And I lost track. So can you talk about your background, your cognitive therapist? You're working with families.
- [01:23]
C
Yeah.
- [01:23]
B
And you just see that this. I mean, it's. I think it's pretty remarkable to put out a book that, you know, this is like, for, you know, mid October into end of December into maybe the little bit the beginning of January. But it's a seasonal book but really needed. Can you talk about what you were seeing and who you were talking to that led you to write this book?
- [01:43]
C
Absolutely. And Ginny, I'm just so glad to know you're like Christmas Eve, 11 o' clock rapper, too, because they're. I don't know. I don't meet them. All my friends are type A. So I'm like, you're my people. But so. So where this book came from was I did an advent talk one year for six or seven hundred women on feeling content during the holidays. And my first book actually came out of that talk. And my editor and I just had a conversation about how the holidays are the hardest time of year. And she said, hey, why don't you bring back that talk, but make it a book, because this is the time of the year where if you love holidays or you don't, it seems to be challenging for everyone in different ways, and especially if you're going through grief or loss or financial stress. And then because of our comparison culture on social media that has lended to the discontent and oftentimes the things that are most important to us, whether it's family or faith or both, we lose it because there's just so much time and mental bandwidth to go around. So my thought was, who doesn't need a therapist or even just a friend to talk to during the holidays or talk you through the holidays? So that's where the book came from.
- [02:57]
B
So you talk about, and I thought this was really interesting, you talk about you and your husband, that neither of you grew up like this with these lavish holiday celebrations. You say both of us are the children of immigrants and grew up in very different situations, but with surprising similarities. Ed was poor. He has Puerto Rican parents who moved to the mainland in their late teens. And talk about gifts were not the focus. You say your parents came from Sri Lanka as physicians, but they were still joyous. What has changed? You know, we did not used to have these lavish things. It used to be so much more simple. What do you think the culprit is here?
- [03:29]
C
I mean, it has gotten more and more commercial and also as we have access to more information, just seeing what other people are doing, seeing what people are advertising on social media. And unlike when we grew up on tv, you know, we would get the catalogs, we'd get the catalog from wherever we were getting toys, Toys R Us or whatever. Now we have that everywhere. Everywhere. And kind of inundated with those images on social media. And the kids now do their hauls on Instagram or Snapchat or wherever they are and they're showing everybody what they've received for Christmas. So I think just the access to information and also seeing what other people are doing and coming up with from influencers on social media, it's gotten to economic bracket. I feel like everyone feels like it's too much in a short period of time and stressful. So. And again, I'm not even talking about the people who have real life stressors on top of this, not just holiday stress. So I think that's where it's morphed over the years. And like you said, not the way we grew up. I think for many people, it's not the way they grew up. Even if Christmas was a beautiful holiday in their family. This is everything I want and everything I need to do and every tradition that we need to now on social media. Right. So I think all of it has kind of morphed into this. This tradition that leaves us oftentimes depleted and joyless, which is the opposite of what we want.
- [05:08]
B
Yeah. And then you talk about how you don't even remember it, you know, so what an interesting thing that you're doing more. All these traditions, all these things that you see everybody else doing, and then you're remembering less. You're like, do you remember anything from last year? Nope. Do you know, like, I don't remember any of it. Unless you look back at Pict. So you have a lot of amazing ideas in the book, ways to kind of curb holiday stress. You talk about your morning ritual, which I think is a fantastic idea, obviously, getting out, getting into the light and. And how, especially to prioritize that in the busy seasons. But I wanted to hit this because you said it's the topic you get asked to speak on most. So here we go. I love it.
- [05:44]
C
Uhhuh. Uhhuh. I know what it is.
- [05:47]
B
Yeah. How do we deal with relationship drama?
- [05:50]
C
Yeah. I mean, I think everyone has some of it somewhere in their family. Maybe not in their immediate family, but maybe an uncle or an aunt that's just very free with her opinions and advice and observations. So I actually wrote two chapters in the book of how to deal with family drama. And then there's the kind. Let me separate. There's a kind that potentially you can come to a resolution. You can have a civil, rational conversation with these people. And I strongly suggest to have a conversation prior to the holidays. If there's this tension that we're anticipating, don't wait until the holiday to see if it surfaces. Address it before. And I gave a lot of tips how to do that. And the funny thing is, we've had this in our family, and it's never surprising who it comes from. My husband always says to me, why are you surprised? This happens every single year.
- [06:43]
B
Every year.
- [06:43]
C
You act like it's never happened before. And I'm like, you're right, I should anticipate it. I should try to do something about it before. But then there's the type where you can't really have the conversation. It's never going to change. This person's never going to meet you halfway or try to see your opinion. And there are strategies in the book for that because the only thing we can control in that situation is ourself and the way that we respond. But I do talk a lot about how to set effective boundaries. Not boundaries where we're kind of giving away our power and asking the person to do something and they're never going to respect our wish, but another type of boundary where we kind of give them the result if they don't, you know, if they, if they don't respect what we're asking. So in that sense we kind of keep the power. So both of them are outlined in the book. And it is definitely, it can be complicated over the holidays for sure. With family.
- [07:41]
B
It's really, it's really helpful and it's, it's interesting because there's so much pressure. It's not like you're getting together on October 2nd, you know, like, oh, whatever. But there's a lot of pressure associated with the holidays. So then the relationship drama can be heightened. And so you say it's your most requested topic to speak on. And then you say this, if you have had issues for 20 years, this holiday is not the time to solve them. I love it. But then you, you went on to talk about how people want you. Like, I wish more people wanted a conflict free holiday. Like people seem to not care and in fact they might like provoking it. That might be the part that they really like. So you have these ways to deal with it. You talk about deflecting, declaring, like you just brought up the if then statement, like if you invite my ex boyfriend, I'm not coming.
- [08:26]
C
Exactly. Right, yeah, that's, that's the consequence of it. Right? If you choose to act in this way, then there are consequences, there are natural consequences. And sometimes we have to be really specific about what that is to let the person know that that behavior affects me and this will be the result.
- [08:46]
B
But then you have depersonalize, which is good. Just trying to be a little bit more empathetic about that person's life. But I loved these strategies, Nero, because they're strategies that you can use in everyday life. And also I think they're sometimes they're strategies we use with our kids. You know, like you deflect, you're like changing the subject. And you know, it's like some of the things that you do with your kids. But this was such a great idea. First of all, you just like totally change the subject or I'm going to go help dad in the kitchen, like get you out of the situation or who's excited for their Hanukkah. Socks or just like these random things. One of the things do is just start laughing.
- [09:19]
C
Yeah, totally. And that's. I mean, in dialectical behavioral therapy, that's caused opposite action. We do the opposite of actually how we feel. So if we're seething with anger, really embarrassed, an opposite action would be laughing. And what that does, it gets us unstuck in that intense emotion. It also makes people wonder, like, what's going on? Like, what do I not know about? Especially the person who may be creating some of the tension. And you don't even have to tell them. You know, you could say, oh, I was just thinking about something funny. But it. It also gives the illusion that I'm not bothered by this. And sometimes those people who create the drama, they. They really feed off some of the reaction. And if you don't give them the reaction, it tends to diffuse the situation, at least in the moment.
- [10:06]
B
Is that just good life advice? Like, these are things you could pass on to your kids? Deflect.
- [10:11]
C
Yes. I think most of the things I talk about in the book are things that I work with people on throughout the whole year. So, yes, it's specific to the holiday because all of those things feel a little magnified. But for the most part, there's skills that we need to navigate and to find more calm in our life the whole year round.
- [10:30]
B
Yeah, yeah. Such good skills. Okay. That's the thing that people ask you about the most. You talk a lot about just the small things. So you say, and was in college where they would have milk and cookies, like a hard day. Here's some milk and cookies. And you're like, okay, well, now I'm adult, so I don't necessarily want to use milk and cookies, you know, as my thing, but. But just to have some tools in your pocket if you're feeling really stressed out. So can you just give a couple examples? Like, you talked about the cold. Just great. I mean, especially if you're in the north and it's that time of year movement, some. Just some different ideas to help that could be quick to help you manage your stress.
- [11:05]
C
Yeah, and, and this is the thing. Wellness does not have to be like a half an hour, five times a week or an hour, whatever. These micro moments of wellness make a big difference. And the cold is one of those things that can take down anxiety and it will get you out of fight or flight, whether that means interpersonal or just stress. So taking a walk outside if it's cold makes a difference. We know with anxiety and panic attacks, just using ice or cold water, having a drink of cold water or putting an ice pack on your neck, even when you're heated in a situation can bring down the level of tension. That's one of the things I talk about in the book. Book. Certainly movement makes a difference. Some exercise. So what I have changed. How I have changed in terms of the way I celebrate holiday. I used to be like the big holiday party giver, and then the reality of four kids and a job has made that difficult over the years. Now I just like to find small moments of connection with friends, so I feel like I can experience a holiday on a deeper, more intimate level. So a lot of times I'll schedule a walk with a friend. And that. That is a way that we can catch up. We can also get movement in. We know that it stimulates. There's something called a female friendship effect. That's kind of the pop psychology term where it stimulates oxytocin so we feel more connected, it improves our mood, and who doesn't need that during the holidays, Right? So a walk, but also just getting. Trying to schedule little moments like, hey, let's grab a coffee for a half an hour. So we feel ground, connected, and lots of positive neurochemicals that are released during those times that improve our mood and motivation. So. And that affects our energy. So I like to do some of those things during the holiday. And there are more suggestions, obviously in the book, but those are some of my favorite.
- [12:58]
B
Nero, how come I've never heard of the female friendship effect ever? I've never heard of that.
- [13:04]
C
It's not. I know it's not like a real psych term, but it's certainly in pop psychology and there is truth to that, and it doesn't have to be females. But I will say this because I'm in perimenopause that that time, which is just so incredibly chaotic. And also why I can't remember last holiday. Our oxytocin drops, as you know, when we get to that age, because our estrogen drops. So especially when you're in that age group, that connection with other females boosts our oxytocin. And we're low at this point in our life. So that was another reason where I said, okay, we need to. There are a lot of ways to level out our hormones. And there's some things that we can do that are not, you know, pharmaceutical.
- [13:48]
B
That can help walk and talk with a friend. What a great idea. You talk a lot about movement. We say, without fail, when clients incorporate exercise into their daily lives. I've seen their energy levels, self esteem and outlook on life improve. So if you're needing those in the holidays, you say even a 20 minute daily break to move will make a difference. If you're feeling anxious, you talk about runners. Runners are optimistic and healthy. They invest in their well being. When I think back on my own childhood, I remember the freedom of the neighborhood. Hours spent riding bikes with friends until the streetlights came on. That's what childhood should feel like. Movement, laughter and connection. And that's exactly what our friends at Woombikes are helping families rediscover. Womb makes the lightest, smartest and safest bikes on the market. Perfectly designed for kids, not just shrunken down adult bikes. Every detail matters. The balance. The brakes, the handlebars, the way the frame fits their growing bodies. You don't just learn to ride with boom. You learn to love the ride. In our own family, we've seen that magic firsthand. Our daughter received a Womb Explorer 6 in that stunning magnetic blue. And from the moment we opened the box, we could feel the difference. The packaging was intuitive, the setup was simple, and within a short period of time, she was riding down the driveway with the biggest smile on her face. When kids have a Womb bike, they want to be outside. And that's the heartbeat of what we do. Helping families reclaim time, connection and joy through real world play. So this holiday season, don't just give a gift. Give them adventure, give them confidence, give them outside. Check out all the holiday deals now@womb.com that's W-O-O-M.com you guys. The holidays are almost here and you know what that means. People to feed, guests to host, and a whole lot of cozy moments ahead. I've been getting our home ready with Wayfair, and it's amazing how just a few updates make everything feel warm and welcoming again. I grabbed a beautiful new dining bench so everyone has a seat at the table, swapped in flannel sheets for the guest room, and found the cutest Christmas wreath. All from Wayfair's Black Friday sale. Everything shipped fast, the prices were unreal, and it made me actually excited to host. This year, Wayfair really is the place to shop for all things home, from sofas to spatulas, rugs to refrigerators. And during their Black Friday event, you can save up to 70 off. Plus they have styles you won't see anywhere else, so your space actually feels like you. And if you haven't heard, Wayfair now has a loyalty program where you earn 5% back, get free shipping and have access to member only sales. It's totally worth joining, so don't wait. These early deals are already happening. Head to Wayfair.com now to shop Wayfair's Black Friday deals for up to 70 off. That's W A Y F A I R.com sale ends December 7th. As the air turns crisp and the holidays draw near, comfort becomes the best gift of all. And for me, Quince delivers comfort that lasts. They have it all. And $50 Mongolian cashmere sweaters made for everyday wear, denim that never goes out of style, silk tops and skirts that add polish and down outerwear built to take on the season. Perfect for gifting or let's be honest, upgrading your own wardrobe before those holiday photos. Honestly, Quince's Italian wool coats are at the top of my list because the cut feels designer. The quality rivals high end brands. But the price is about half because Quinn's works directly with ethical top tier factories and skips the middlemen. So you get luxury quality without the luxury markup up. For me this season my go to has been my Quince cashmere because it is soft, classic and somehow it goes with everything. Oh, and my all black quince puffer jacket is always at the ready for those chilly mornings. So step into the holidays with layers made to feel good, look polished and last from Quince, perfect for gifting or keeping for yourself. Go to quince.com outside for free shipping and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com sl outside free shipping 365 day returns. Quint.com outside I liked how you talked about because you talk about breathing. We've talked a little bit on the show about box breathing. This lady, Sissy Goff came on and like her partner at where they work, his name is David Thomas and they both talked about box breathing. But you were like look, the Navy Seals actually use it.
- [17:56]
C
They do. And all Special forces combat units. Actually Sissy and David are very good friends of mine. I was just out with them in Nashville for the week. But yes, we talk a lot about box breathing. All Special Forces combat units teach relaxation breathing and whether it's box breathing and you can look it up, it's really easy to find online a tutorial. The goal is a longer exhalation when you're doing deep breathing and that is what actually takes us out of the fight or flight and stimulates the parasympathetic nervous system that's the one that relaxes us when we rest. So the phrase I like to use is longer exhalation is the key to relaxation, which is an easy way to remember how to breathe. And that really helps even if you're in a heated moment during the holidays or you feel like, oh, my gosh, I feel overwhelmed. I don't even know where to start to tackle this to do list. Do five minutes of that breathing. That's it. Five minutes. You will feel differently at the end, especially if there's a longer exhalation.
- [18:58]
B
If the Navy SEALs use it, maybe you should, too, right?
- [19:03]
C
If it's good enough for. That's actually how I get resistant men to try these things to breathe. They'll be like, hey, you know, the Navy SEALs do it. And like, this is the only way they're going to be at all similar with seals. So all of a sudden, they start listening. And how do you. How do you do that? Tell me more about that.
- [19:18]
B
Yeah, this is what the Special Forces do. Because it seems, like, so floofy.
- [19:24]
C
Yeah, I know, I know. But there's so much science behind it, and I do try to incorporate that here and there in the book. So people know, hey, these are not just nice things to do. These are actually physically transforming. I don't know if I wrote this in this book or my first book. See, this is the perimenopause. I can't remember which book. But these things that sound like nice things to do, like gratitude journals, they actually, when you do them, you live not only happier, but you live longer and healthier. And there was one study that showed cardiac patients after a heart attack who kept gratitude journals for six weeks showed lower rates of inflammation than people who didn't. I mean, that. That's what we're talking about. We're talking about physically transformative practices. Those practices such as gratitude and movement and, you know, the female friendship effect over time, as long as it reduces stress in your life, you're going to see correlations in longevity and reduction of illness. So. And then, you know, like, you know, there's so much research to support just being outdoors for our mental health and physical health. So, yeah, I'm all about it.
- [20:30]
B
Yeah, that research is in this one you say about the cardiac patients.
- [20:33]
C
Okay, good. Oh, good.
- [20:35]
B
A lot in here about gratitude. So it's a great book for both holidays. Thanksgiving, too. And actually, honestly, I feel like it starts in October, which is why it's cool that the book is coming out in October, because it really starts with Halloween.
- [20:46]
C
It does. And, you know, you go into the stores prior to Halloween and there's Christmas things out. This is also, Ginny, why I wrote it in 31 short chapters, because I didn't think people would sit down during the holidays and read a whole book. But it's almost like, if you can break it up, if you can find 31 days between sometime in October and New Year's, I take you all the way to New Year's Day. I have these little short chapters to help ground you, give you perspective, give you calm. If there's a situation you're dealing with over the holidays, I'm sure it's in that book, whether it's grief or even divorce, because that is a whole other level of grief, loneliness, anxiety, and then just all the stress we face as parents trying to get it all done and dealing with kids who might be disappointed no matter what effort we made for that holiday. It's all in the book. So. And it's helped. It's helped to have four kids because I've lived through it all. And even tough moments when your kid is struggling, that was a huge part of what was going on in my life while I was even writing the book. So hopefully I included everybody. They'll find something for them.
- [21:52]
B
Yeah, I throw on a snow day, like, if you live in the north, you're like, wait a minute, you talked about that. You're, like, heading into the holidays and you're like, you've got so much things, you know, so many things to do and so many things on your to do list. And then it's like, snow day. Your kids are like, I want to go sledding.
- [22:07]
C
I think I wrote in the book, like, having a snow day. As a parent during the holidays and a working parent, in my case, it's like a natural disaster stir. You can't. You don't recover from it all that quickly. And as much as you want to spend that time with them, you know, you have this running list in. In your head. So I wrote about one of the days where that happened to me and also what I found in on that day that. That I still think about today. That was a beautiful thing. Yeah.
- [22:36]
B
You talked about how your, you know, your kids are like, well, we just want to sled with you, Mom. You know, like, go sled. You just go do it. And you're like, no, we want to sled with you. And you said, it's so beautiful. You said, there are thousands of women who pray they will get to go sledding on a Snow day with their kids and never do because even in December moms use babies, single parents have to work late, chemo treatments continue, cars don't work, kids split holidays and the ocean of grief only gets deeper. So it's a good reminder. How much longer are they going to want to actually sled with you? So it's, it's a beautiful reframe. You know, talking about getting to do things versus having to do things in this book. So a lot about self care and making sure that you know you're getting out in the light. You talk about you have a sleep goal in December. I think that's actually a fantastic idea. Naro.
- [23:22]
C
Yes. And part of that came after I wrote my first book and was under this incredible stress for seven months plus having my kids. And it was post Covid as well. And as soon as I turned in that book I started having panic attacks and, and I know what that is about. And I knew it was a lot of internalized stress. So from then on I said anytime I'm going through a stressful period, I need a sleep goal because everything rests on sleep. I recently attended the New York Times.
- [23:51]
B
Wait, did you say that on purpose?
- [23:52]
C
Spring. No, why?
- [23:54]
B
Everything rests on sleep.
- [23:57]
C
Oh no, I didn't even mean to.
- [23:58]
B
That's a great line. That would be a good book title, wouldn't it? Everything rests on sleep.
- [24:02]
C
Thank you. Everything rests on sleep.
- [24:04]
B
Okay, sorry I interrupted you.
- [24:05]
C
I love that. Yes, but it is so true. And every wellness provider at that conference talked about the importance of sleep. And I kind of decided at some point in my life, especially being someone who I like to set goals, I like to try and meet them. I said if I, if I can't even function like a human being the way I was created to function, which is someone who we necessitate at least seven hours of sleep, then whatever I'm achieving is actually not worth it. You know, it's going to limit my lifespan, it's going to limit my attention span. I'm not going to be, you know, as present and level for my kids. So sleep is a non negotiable for me now and especially in perimenopause because I'm getting up at three in the morning when I don't expect to, you know. So it is a big, it's a big goal for me. Now sleep.
- [24:52]
B
What is your goal?
- [24:54]
C
Minimum seven hours a night. I was someone, I was like a four to sixer for a lot of my life because I was. I know it's 4 was bad, but yeah, yeah, yeah. And even now, like when I do the Today show once a month, when I'm there, it's probably like a four or five hours. I don't know how I'm coherent in the morning. That is like a divine miracle. But I'd say seven minimum. But anywhere from seven to eight. Like, if I. I don't think I can sleep nine hours straight anymore. I would love to. I would love. This is why I look forward to my colonoscopy. Like, that's the best sleep I get. So. You look too young, Ginny, but one day you'll, you'll look forward to it. But, but yes, yes, that's the best sleep I get. So if I could sleep nine hours, I would. But you know, seven to eight is, is the goal.
- [25:46]
B
It's interesting to have, like, then that's the busiest time of the year for so many families. And all the more reason than to prioritize the morning light. These different ideas that you have in the book to kind of calm down your nervous system and to have a sleep goal. And then, then you do, then you make the morning, make yourself do it.
- [26:05]
C
It's so true. The morning light regulates our circadian rhythms. It will actually help us sleep later. Vitamin D production is optimal if you get morning light, which affects our mood because it's a precursor for serotonin. So all of those things work together. And at the end of it, I mean, the one thing I've learned, especially for women, we do so much to create joy for so many people. And at the end of it, we don't authentically feel it ourselves. So I found ways to have these kind of micro moments of joy throughout the holiday. And collectively it made a huge difference by how I felt at the end. And in psychology, a lot of times we talk about this idea that emotions are contagious, emotions as a contagion. And even though you're creating joy for everyone else, if you don't authentically feel it, the people around you really don't feel it in the ways that they could. Good. Authentically. So that's why I felt like this. Me prioritizing my joy is actually a gift to everyone around me. It's much like how we talk about self care, but we can talk about it in the way that we talk about. We can talk about joy that way as well.
- [27:13]
B
What an interesting point. That's actually probably the key, right. Is that if we're harried ourselves, it's not producing what we want it to produce. Wow. Yeah. That's that's really a powerful thing to know. I. And I. And this. You have great stories in this one. Well, there's funny ones and then there's ones that are like a really big deal. Like you're at a correctional facility and you're like, these, these women, some of them are really joyous. And so, you know, doesn't matter necessarily what your circumstance is. Trying to find joy. Joy is a choice. But I wanted to talk about another big thing at the holidays, which is gifts. And you just brought up such a good point about this is really a lose, lose situation that we're in. First of all, we want to be surprised. And second of all, you're not supposed to give feedback. So, like, this is what you learn from a very early age. I mean, you know, I remember with all our kids at birthday parties in Christmas, and you're teaching them, like, don't say, I already got that. Don't say, I don't like that. Don't, you know, like, when you open it, make sure that you say thank you and smile really big and look happy.
- [28:17]
C
Yeah. Yes, yes. Suppress those feelings. Yeah.
- [28:21]
B
It's no feedback. Zero feedback. So it's like if every year, you know, your grandma buys you fuzzy socks and you're like, grandma, I love, like, how would she know that you don't like those anymore?
- [28:31]
C
They.
- [28:32]
B
They make your feet sweat or whatever it is. So can you talk about these unspoken rules and cultural norms about gift giving and what we maybe should do about it?
- [28:41]
C
Yes, absolutely. And there is a good amount of research on gift giving, surprisingly. But the, the most fun part of writing that chapter was I polled people on Instagram to ask them what was the worst gift and the best gift you ever received? And funny enough, a lot of the worst gifts came from people's mother in law. So if you have a great mother in law, you treasure her during the holidays, because the majority of people I talked to didn't. So there is this kind of unsaid rule, like, okay, just be happy for what you get. Don't say what you want. That might feel materialistic or unappreciative when. When really it is. How are we, how are we supposed to read each other's minds? Right? And, and why I wrote about this is because this was a huge conflict early on in my marriage. My husband would say it still is, but I do appreciate what he does now. I think I just traumatized him early on, so he's super sensitive about this now. But gifts is. If you think of gifts as a love language, for some people, the roots of why we feel the way we do around gifts runs deep. And I'll give you the example that my husband grew up very poor and Puerto Rican. Like, no gifts in his family. They didn't have the money for it. And me, I mean, we didn't. We grew up very comfortable. And my parents were both super busy. They were physicians, they were immigrants. So a lot of times, the way they express love. Love was through gifts. That was their love language because they didn't have all the time to do the quality time. Right. So we're coming into it with two very different love languages. And then I don't get a husband who knows how to give gifts thoughtfully because he never saw it. So I interpreted as, okay, then you don't love me. You don't appreciate what I do, which is so not the case. And this is why the conversation is necessitated. And I love what the researcher is that I wrote about in the book does is he and his wife share this Google spreadsheet. And they put on things all year round. So there's still that element of surprise at the holidays or birthdays. You don't know what they're gonna pick, but they can pick from the list and you. They get what they want. The other thing I always do is I always buy myself a couple gifts for the holidays. So I know, like, okay, once I find something that I know I'll be happy with, everything else is extra. I can appreciate it for what they are, but I'm not dependent on someone to. To bring me joy through gifts. I know I can do that myself.
- [31:03]
B
These are important things because it's. It's a big deal. It comes up. You say we. We often say the holidays are not about gifts. Yet if we're honest, we have to admit that gifts do affect our holiday experience. Like, someone got a thigh master.
- [31:15]
C
Yes. And she is so tiny. I was like, oh, my gosh. I think they broke up soon after that when her boyfriend left that for her. But, you know, the other thing I think is important when we're talking about kids and their reactions, there's a difference between disappointment and ingratitude. And oftentimes, when kids don't seem happy with the gift, we automatically label them as ungrateful. Which. Which is not fair because we as adults can relate to the idea of being disappointed about a certain experience or even a gift, but it doesn't necessarily mean we're ungrateful people. But oftentimes, I think because of perception on how other people are viewing the child in that moment, we kind of label them as ungrateful, and it's not. They're just really disappointed. So I feel like that's an important point to differentiate, especially during the holidays and especially if you're struggling with your child in that. In that sense as well.
- [32:10]
B
There's a lot of pressure with all of it, isn't there? A lot of pressure. I do really like that Google spreadsheet idea, though. And I. My mom, she. And I don't even know if if, like, she was totally telling the truth or not, but I think this was so helpful. Like, we would be out places, you know, maybe in October or November. My mom really likes to go to craft shows, so we'd go to craft shows, and she'd be like, well, you know, she would like this thing or the other. And I. And she'd be like, if you just get that for me for Christmas, I'll forget about it. And, you know, that was actually really helpful because it's like she is pointing out what she likes, and then she would always act surprised. I don't know if it was true or not that, you know, but she's like, I forgot about that. And. And probably she did, right? I mean, she got a bunch of kids, and she's in the middle of the holiday season, too.
- [32:55]
C
And if she was in perimenopause, I guarantee you she forgot about is a helpful thing.
- [33:01]
B
It's a helpful thing to say. These are the things I like. I'm like, I like pens. I always tell my kids, you just get me. I'm like, I like these pilot pens. I like lay pen. You know, I'm like, I like Mr. Pen. I like any pens you get me. As long as it's not like a Bic penny. Yeah, I'm gonna be happy with that. I like puzzles. Buffalo brand. Give me a puzzle. You know, it's helpful. It's helpful when people give you ideas. Yeah.
- [33:25]
C
And the giver wants to get you something you want. You know, they're putting in time, even a little time to picking out something for you. They want you to be happy with it. So I think it's a relief, especially if you're someone who is super thoughtful and you're a gift giver. Like, that's obviously your love language. If that's your love language, you're the person who's often disappointed because people can't. They're not that thoughtful. It's not their love language. They're not necessarily. It's not their forte. So you. That person who's good at giving gifts especially should give other people hints of what you want and maybe you can again, when you, when you put together that list or the giftful or the spreadsheet, there's still that element of surprise because you don't know what they're going to pick, but at least it's going to be something you know you like and are not just going to put in a pile to gift or give away or donate, you know.
- [34:15]
B
Yeah, it's real practical. And then you also talked about when you did your poll that one of the best gifts that people talked about were experience gifts.
- [34:25]
C
Yes, yes. Because that combines too. I mean one of the things we know is relationships are at the heart of well being. So if you can combine a gift, an experience, something you can do together, something that will strengthen your relationship bond and that tends to be at the heart of these experience gifts and something you can discover together and experience together and then would generate conversations from it is multi level gratifying. So yeah, people tend to enjoy those experience gifts.
- [34:57]
B
Yeah, great ideas. And they're all in the book. The book is called all is Calm. Ish. Let's talk about screens. You know, I think the whole point of the book is that, that. Well, I don't know if I should say that this is your book, but.
- [35:10]
C
You can say whatever you want.
- [35:12]
B
Basically. It's like all of these ideas are good for the year round so you can pick up the book and get ideas for year round. Yeah, it's just that holidays things are so much more intense, magnifying and so all the more reason that you need to pay attention to your screen time and your sleep time and the light that you're being exposed to and how much, you know, how much junk food and sugar and how many the people you're hosting at your house because it is just a more intense time of year and it's important to know about that. So then you talk about screens and you say screens are one of the reasons we lose our ability to be present as life happens around us. Now this is year round, right? It's a year round. That's true in May as much as it is in December. Screens affect our mood. It's true in the summer, it's true in the winter. It affects our attention span. It hijacks our neural pathways. I was like, I don't want to be hijacked. Hijacks our neural pathways to prevent us from being fully present and connecting with those around us. But it just is more, I don't know if important is the right word. But like if you're wanting to remember the holidays, it is a little bit more important to know in those months to be mindful of your phone. Can you talk about what might be helpful for families to do regarding screen time during the holiday seasons?
- [36:27]
C
Absolutely. So. So I do talk about why it affects our mood and part of that is how it creates this imbalance of dopamine in our system and our body's trying to fight it and bring it back to normal levels and that affects our mood. We experience types of withdrawal symptoms when we don't have the screen with us and also gives us a very fractured attention span because we're constantly looking at a turnover of image, rapid turnover of images and content. So that's why we don't develop the attention Spanish by just rather focusing on one thing. But some of the ways to start is just have some like an hour of your day that's totally screen free where the phone is not in proximity. The closer it is to you, the harder it's going to be to not go on it. So out of the room. And I think certainly if you can, at night before you go to bed, phone should be out of the room. Different meal times, maybe there's some family times together. And I know there's, there's this tendency to want to grab the phone and like record something or take a photo, but you are definitely better served if you can guard some of those times. And that also begins to increase your attention span because you're not constantly distracted by either a text coming in or a phone call or some sort of content on social media that you're checking or emails. You can actually be present in the moment. And what's the point of having all the pictures and video on your phone if you, you never go back to look at them? I mean, I rarely. Right. I'll record every single song at my kids concert but never look at it again in my life. So.
- [38:04]
B
Oh, it's true.
- [38:05]
C
Right.
- [38:05]
B
Record every present that they open. You're like, I don't remember. I don't remember what they got last year.
- [38:10]
C
No, nor do they. Nor do they. Right, yeah.
- [38:13]
B
Which is why experience gifts are a great idea. I talked to this man named Arthur Brooks and he's great. Yeah, he's written some really good books.
- [38:21]
C
Books.
- [38:21]
B
In the one I was reading about happiness, I think it's called the Happiness Files, he was talking about how he goes on a trip with his son and he has for a really long time, like his son is an adult. Now, but since childhood, they would go on one fishing trip, I think a year for Christmas, no presents, we're gonna go on a little fishing trip. And he said, I can remember every single fish we've caught.
- [38:43]
C
Wow. Wow. That's amazing. I believe it, though. I believe it. And I know that because as a therapist, that is one time where I do not look at my phone because I'm concentrating on what someone's talking about. And in my real life, it'll take me three times to leave the house. Like, I'll be like, oh, I forgot this and I forgot my this or that. But in session, I will remember from years ago what someone ate for breakfast that they told me on the day that their dog died. Like crazy details like that. But it's because I'm fully focused, focused on them. So I believe that he remembers every fish they caught. Yeah, for sure. It's amazing what you can remember when you're focused.
- [39:25]
B
Yeah. And you wouldn't remember what the gift was. You wouldn't remember the gift they opened when they were nine years old. But he said, I remember all the trips that we've gone on, and they still do it into adulthood. It's really, I think, a life changing thing to, to start to make some of those shifts to experiences. If you're able to over actual gifts instead of screens for dopamine, then you have, you have alternatives. So can you talk about. And the wording here is big. You say, make time for dopamine stimulating activities. Make time, make time. Okay, it's really hard to make time in November and December, but you need to what are healthy dopamine stimulating activities?
- [40:02]
C
So there are several things that you can do, what dopamine responds to. So we get a surge of dopamine when we are engaged in something new or novel. That's usually when dopamine responds, comes about. So trying some new things, going to a new place, taking a walk in a new neighborhood, those things can stimulate dopamine. You know, even just every time we see a friend that we haven't seen in a while, we get a surge of dopamine. Anything new will stimulate that dopamine. And my big motto, and I think I wrote it in the book, is anything worth doing is doing a little. I'm not asking to make a ton of time to just focus on wellness in the holidays, because if I can't do it myself, I'm not going to recommend it to anyone. I know everybody's busy, but we underestimate the impact of five minutes of silence. You know, of a ten minute walk outside. Anything that you can do a little that moves you towards greater wellness, that gives you a little bit of reprieve from the stress that you're constantly under in that time is worth it. And collectively, if you can do a tiny bit of that, like every day or every other day, it will make a difference how you feel over the whole holiday. It will.
- [41:20]
B
Yeah. You talked about your own morning ritual. You say it involves light. You say candles, you know, might do you know, the different types of holiday light that you have in your home can make a difference. You're talking about starting the day with a walk. You're talking about drinking a whole glass of water, a little bit of reading in the reading in the morning, 15 to 20 minutes and a little bit of silence.
- [41:42]
C
All of that. And yeah, and I, I'm actually better with that ritual during the holidays than I am out of the holidays. I try as much as I can to do it out, but because I have my Christmas tree and my house is decorated and I have my pine scented candle because I'm like huge on fake trees, you know, because I don't. I'm the one who's going to clean up the real one. I did for years now, the kids. So it's so beautiful. I just want to pause and sit there and take it in. And, and generally my mornings consist of a little devotional or, you know, some prayer time and a little bit of gratitude journaling. So I've combined them all together and it has made this beautiful ritual that I look forward to in the holidays that have changed the way that the rest of my day goes. If you take those just few minutes for yourself, I never, it's never more than 10 minutes, but it changes the whole feel of the rest of my day and gives me a little grounding and perspective to manage what comes later.
- [42:41]
B
What advice do you have for people who are going through some deep grief? I know you give a story in the, in the book all is commish about our family where, you know, all of a sudden there's one family member that's not there and there's an empty seat at the table and you know, there's these traditions, but sometimes they feel real hard because that person who was there isn't there. And I know this is a really common thing. It can be a really hard time of year.
- [43:02]
C
Yeah. And I, and I would say you have to give yourself a lot, a lot of grace during this time. And really there's no right or wrong answ or there's no way you should do it or shouldn't do it. It's whatever feels right for you in that moment. And you can take this year and do it differently. My friend, who I wrote about in the book, who lost her husband, decided that first Christmas. I'm not going to do Christmas here. We're going to go on a trip. It's too painful to be in the house, and that's okay. And after a couple years, she brought back some of those traditions. But you have permission to do it differently this year. Whatever serves you and your family best and feels less painful. I mean, the pain is there no matter what, when you've lost somebody. But some things feel more painful and take that liberty to not do it that way. And the other thing is surround yourself with people who you can be yourself with. You don't have to pretend with. You don't have to put on a cheerful, joyful disposition for them even because it's the holidays. They can meet you where you're at. Those are the people that are important to be with, with during the holiday and go day by day. If you don't feel like you can make plans or if you need to cancel plans last minute because all of a sudden a wave of grief hit you and you don't feel like you can do this, that's okay. That's okay. If people don't understand it now, you figure it out. They're not your people. And, you know, keep the ones who are in your life and invest time and energy with them.
- [44:28]
B
It's such good advice. And you really do. Like you said earlier, you let, like, I'll cover it all. You got. Got a question about this, I'm gonna cover it. Got a question.
- [44:36]
C
I've seen it. I've seen it all in 20 years of therapy, you know, So I hope. I hope everyone feels covered in the book.
- [44:43]
B
Yeah. Let's kind of wrap it up here. You say good enough is both good and enough. There is probably. I'm like, this is one of the most powerful stories I've ever read, and I'm not going to share it because I don't want to ruin it. People can pick it up. It's on page 173. It's there, this Santa story. It is so unbelievably powerful. I'm like, sobbing as I read this story. But that small miracles, small miracles you can help to instill. Small miracles for other people, you can be a part of that, or small miracles may come your way. So be on the Lookout for them. You say the first Christmas was complicated, unexpected and messy. Was never meant to be perfect or easy. So you had this story talking about being good enough is both good and enough. You had this story where you're like, like, I'm taking my kids on a horse drawn carriage ride through the snow. Like, this is going to be so such a fail.
- [45:35]
C
Oh my gosh, right? Because I had this like picture perfect image. You know, my kids were little, it was cute. We're like, we're going up to Vermont. Where else could it be more Christmassy and quintessential? And we get there and it's like literally like 10 below zero. It was so cold, and it was too cold for the horses. So this like grouchy woman, I mean, not what you'd picture, you know, operating a horse drawn sleigh, was like, yeah, it's too cold for the horses. We're gonna use this tractor. It was like a 1970s tractor that was so loud. So I'm like, okay, it's gonna be great. So we, we get in the tractor and it's freezing and my kids are like, miserable, right? Because they don't want to be out here in the cold. And I write about this moment where I was like, you know what? I'm gonna make the best of it. I'm gonna look out and, oh, it's so beautiful. And like the sun was setting and I look at my family and they literally have their hats pulled down over their eyes, their scarves, like, pulled up over their noses so they literally can't see anything. And I think, oh my gosh, why am I torturing everybody doing this? Why. Why did this. But now it's, it's. And more disasters happen that I write about. But it's just so funny now. We laugh about that. And also, like being Puerto Rican and Sri Lankan and from islands like, we have no business being in the cold. Like, genetically we were not predispositioned for that. So I don't even know what I was thinking in the first place. But it's all to say, are these. When it goes wrong, when it doesn't go as planned, that could be one of your better memories if you can find that perspective in it. And that, that was one of our best Christmas memories. And my husband and I just, we. We still laugh about what that was like for us and the family. But you have to look for it. You have to, don't, don't be so held so tightly to that well planned plan or the image and, and find the humor in it whenever you can because it, it will carry you through the stress and may end up being the thing that you talk about, you know, 10 years later. Write a book about.
- [47:41]
B
Yeah. Ends up in the book. It ends up in the book. What's your other book called?
- [47:45]
C
This book won't make you happy. And it's, it's eight keys to finding true contentment. So it's, it's about the practices that foster contentment, why we're not content as a culture, the different forces that take us away from contentment. And this book was kind of a good follow up to that. Although it's, it's kind of taking on a life of its own now, which has been really exciting.
- [48:07]
B
Yeah. I mean the contentment is really. The core is can you be content? And there's just so much commercialization and like you said, gosh, you started off by talking about these halls and where you would show what you got for. For the holidays. And I didn't know about that actually. I'm obviously, I'm not surprised. But what an extra added pressure. Narrow. Like, you know, I think about my own childhood and I think people have, you know, my parents got special gifts for us and I think, you know, but it was just a little simpler. I feel like everything was simpler and you'd go back to school and it'd be like, oh, you know, someone got a new pair of shoes or a new sweater or something. But like to have to display that or feel like you had to display that to friends and like post about your hall pressure.
- [48:49]
C
Yep. Ah, A lot of everyone, the hall, the outfits when you go out, all. Everything that is now we have to put on display to somehow prove our worth in this world. And, and the kids face it exponentially. Right. So they may be totally happy with their holiday and what they receive for Christmas and then all of a sudden they're holding it up to someone else, posting every single thing that they received and all of a sudden they're, they're filled with discontent. So it is a lot on them. This is a tough world for our kids. So I think that goes back to the more we can be as centered and present and give them the things that really matter. I never remember because it didn't exist, not having my parents attention because they were on a phone, you know, never, never. And I think about our kids and I'm talking about my own who've battled that and I for them, I want better for them and, and let me tell you, it's a fight. And you know Especially when you're on social media and, you know, you're. You're busy. And part of my life is media. It is a fight to kind of put the phone away and be present, but. But it's so worth it. And now just having my oldest just have gone to college, and now I'm sending one off to college every two years. I have four kids. You realize how fleeting it is.
- [50:09]
B
It's.
- [50:09]
C
It's not a lot of time that they're, that they're here with you. So it has certainly increased my motivation to fight that fight and work doing everything I can to be present and balance not only for them, but for me too.
- [50:25]
B
Yeah. And so maybe the two books are good to pair together because to talk about contentment, it's an important piece of it and it's important piece for the kids. And I think you'd have to have conversations about why is that kid posting that hall and is that healthy? Is that good for society? Is that good for that person? Because that's a lot of pressure on the parent too, knowing that, okay, they're gonna go back to school and, like, everyone's gonna have pictures or everyone's gonna be making videos of what they got. Whereas, like, when we were kids, it was like, yeah, I gotta stuff the animal. Like, you don't even. It's been a week.
- [50:55]
C
You don't know.
- [50:56]
B
You know, I can't remember. Yeah, right. No one can remember anything.
- [51:01]
C
Yeah.
- [51:02]
B
You're not gonna, you're not gonna go down the laundry list. I got a pair of banana socks. I got, you know, just a couple things. So that's just a really different world we live in. And to your point, it's like kids can't even grasp that because it's not their world. So these are critical topics and critical conversations to be having because contentment is key, for sure, to have a good holiday.
- [51:23]
C
And like you said, when I, When I talk to my kids about what's been memorable for them, it always involves getting together with family and experiences that we've had, had, and also the times we've served as a family, when we volunteered as a family, those things stay in their mind. So rarely do they remember a gift. I don't think once they've brought up a gift being their best memory, it's all the other things that involve connection. So just something to keep in mind for sure.
- [51:51]
B
Yeah. You wrote the idea of being satisfied with less. Especially all of these are like, especially, especially during the holidays, especially during that I sleep. Especially during the holiday holidays. Good light, especially during the holidays. The idea of being satisfied with less, especially during the holidays, is foreign to many. Stress and money go hand in hand and overspending can be a large part of holiday stress. So a fantastic book and, and much needed. It is called All Is Calmish. How to Feel Less Frantic and More Festive during the Holidays in a Row. We always end our show with the same question. What's a favorite memory from your childhood that was outside?
- [52:27]
C
Oh, I just remember I lived on a cul de sac and there were so many kids. And again, I grew up at the time where our parents would say, go outside and don't come back till it's dark. And we used to go in the woods. We'd be down the street, we'd be riding our bikes. But I had such a beautiful childhood because we spent most of the time outside on that cul de sac with the kids in the neighborhood. So. And I remember, you know, not to coming home. And I remember what the sky looked like when I'd go home. And it was like pinks and purples when I would make my way back home, you know, and see my mom or dad or they were both doctors, sometimes my grandparents were there to bring us in. And it, it was just a beautiful memory.
- [53:08]
B
So, yeah, all that freedom.
- [53:10]
C
I know. I miss those days. Yes. Miss those days.
- [53:13]
B
They're good for kids. They're good for families. What an honor, Such an honor to meet you. I really enjoyed the book and I, I, I love that the broken cookie. The broken gingerbread cookie was like the heading for each of the chapters. I thought that was super creative. Niro, thank you so much for being here.
- [53:29]
C
Ginny, thank you so much for having me. I've loved this conversation with you.
- [53:37]
A
And Doug.
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B
Here we have the Limu Emu in.
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A
Its natural habitat, helping people customize their.
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B
Car insurance and save hundreds of with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug. Uh, limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.
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C
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B
They see us.
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C
Only pay for what you need@libertymutual.com Liberty.
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B
Liberty. Liberty. Liberty Savings Fairy underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates excludes Massachusetts.
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Experience the sequel everyone's been waiting for with Sideline 2 intercepted, join Drayton and Dallas as they navigate the challenges of college life while trying to stay true to themselves, themselves and each other. Catch all the drama and watch Sideline 2 Intercepted starring Noah Beck and Sienna Agudong for free on Tubi this Thanksgiving.